[HeavenlyFocus]

Looking back, the same can be said for our relationship.  We could start seriously reconnecting when both of us stopped blaming factors outside of ourselves — while recognizing extenuating circumstances — and took full responsibility for the way we each behaved and reacted. 

Hi Acorn,

This is so critical.  There are extenuating circumstances that led to my W's MLC and some things within our marriage that were impacted by the circumstances.  I have tried to really focus on my life and take responsibility for my own behavior.  Leaving my W to figure out her life.   Time will tell if she eventually confronts here own behavior or choices or just continues to blame me.   Grateful for your continued story about how you and your H have taken responsibility and moved on with life.   

HF

[xyzcf]

As usual a very insightful and helpful reflection. Thank you as always for sharing.

He said, ‘Yes, I’m a good example of that.  I realized after a while that the first step out of the deep hole was to take full responsibility for digging it.  I’d say that was the turning point of sorts for me.  Mind you, the temptation to stop at realization and not to take it further was very strong.  It’s easy to read the book cover.  But it takes a lot of time and effort to slog through a tome that is all about you.’

I suggest that understanding ‘responsibility’ is crucial in seeing reality and moving forward with both eyes open. To deny or lessen your own or other’s responsibility is to deny reality.

I do not think it is a coincidence that H started healing when he completely stopped blaming other people/things/conditions and took full responsibility for his choices and started to look within himself for whys.

In the marriages that I have seen that have survived MLC, there has been recognition of what the MLcer did while in crisis and an acceptance of their personal responsibility. I don't think that there could be a marriage without it.

There are also, as in my own case, the complete lack of ownership for anything. No dialogue, no explanation and certainly no discussion at all about what went down. Nothing, absolutely nothing. In earlier years, I tried to open up a dialogue between us. After being met with stoney silence, I stopped for it was causing me more pain that he would not interact with me at all on this.

So my personal opinion is that unless the MLCer resolves their crisis AND wishes to return to their marriage, as with all other things related to MLC, you cannot force someone to accept or admit responsibility for their actions. Those who have vanishers are certainly not able to connect in any way.

My priest very early on after BD, after he spoke to my husband summed it up well. "There is a complete disconnect between Mr. xyzcf's heart and his head".

 

Understanding the background (e.g. MLC) for their choices does not somehow grant them diminished responsibility.  I think we can sometime confuse or amalgamate these two aspects. 

I agree, it doesn't diminish responsibility. For some LBSers , it can help to find a way to move forward and do what they need to to find a life without their spouse.

I am going to use an example from my own personal history. I have a heart blockage and I don't tolerate medication that is needed to lower my LDL. I am a nurse and I worked in CCU. I have researched and explored all that this means and what I need to do to slow down the progress of this coronary artery disease. I have recently seen another cardiologist for a second opinion. I continue to learn all I can about this disease. The more knowledge I have, the easier it is for me to make the lifestyle changes I need to slow down the progression. I will also reluctantly start an injectable medication every two weeks, if I can tolerate any side effects from it and if not, that is sort my last thing that I can do.

I am like this in every aspect of my life. I want to find out as much as I can and that frees me to proceed.

So I think, based upon other threads that speak to this idea of wanting to know what causes MLC and how it progresses, I think there is a misunderstanding that this is not a healthy way to proceed on our journey.

Thus, and this is my own personal belief that I don't really understand this statement:

Why do some LBSs appear to be keen on reducing the accountability of MLCer/WAS/Cheater for their choices by attributing some or all of it to other factors?

I am not reconnecting even on a tiny level with Mr. xyzcf regardless of the contact between us. Thus, the issue of responsibility has no place other than my own inner work looking at how I can become a better person because of this experience.

[MadLuv]

I do not think it is a coincidence that H started healing when he completely stopped blaming other people/things/conditions and took full responsibility for his choices and started to look within himself for whys

Then there are the ones that seem to take responsibility. Mine says it is all him. He changed. He doesn't know how to get out of where he is. So, he just ruminates things in his head over and over with no solution except self pity. He can see he has issues, insecurities, guilt,shame …. All of it, but wont work through the toughest aspects to deal with better coping. He would rather run and start a new life that is not as good. That he is still not happy, but that he doesn't have to be reminded of all his mistakes and pain.

I have brought up that you take all that with you, but he doesn't see it that way. He sees it as not having to look into the other persona's face that he did it to anymore. In the end I guess it is just an inner strength that some have that they are able to move past the cover and others just would rather try and keep the book shut. Regardless of whether the they have peaked at slime
of the chapters or not.

[Acorn]

Thank you, xyzcf and Torn, for reading and commenting on my thread.  It’s lovely to read what others think. 

I hope I can type because my fingers are aching from pulling out the last of the ivy ground cover in the backyard. ( !!!!!!!).  H is working today (on public holiday!) and I was determined to finish by myself what we started some time ago.  Never, ever plant ivy in your garden.  Grrrrrr. 

So I think, based upon other threads that speak to this idea of wanting to know what causes MLC and how it progresses, I think there is a misunderstanding that this is not a healthy way to proceed on our journey.

If I may, please.

My view is that LBS’s information gathering on MLC is very helpful, especially in the beginning.  (I’d say to newbies to go for it.)  All the MLC info you collect gives a name to the unbelievable changes — seemingly overnight — in our spouses, and that is a good thing.  You want some plausible answers to reduce the bewilderment factor. 

After a certain point, though, you (general ‘you’) heal a bit and are encouraged to change your focus — ‘eyes off MLCer,’ ‘mirror work,’ ‘personal growth,’ etc.  You proactively change your focus, and then, hopefully, you experience favourable changes in yourself. 

The following quote by a Canadian writer encapsulates my thoughts which I have in my collection of lessons:

“What you focus on grows, what you think about expands, and what you dwell upon determines your destiny.”

Just my opinion. 
…..
Torn, from my sample of one, I saw that H’s awareness of what he had done was the first step of a thousand mile restitution journey.  That took place after he more or less resolved his issues.  May your H take another step, and then one more, and keep going. 

Enjoy the rest of the day, folks!

[xyzcf]

After a certain point, though, you (general ‘you’) heal a bit and are encouraged to change your focus — ‘eyes off MLCer,’ ‘mirror work,’ ‘personal growth,’ etc.  You proactively change your focus, and then, hopefully, you experience favourable changes in yourself.

I agree Acorn.  We are amazingly resilient beings and healing occurs and we find ourselves in a different and hopefully better place.

[MadLuv]

Torn, from my sample of one, I saw that H’s awareness of what he had done was the first step of a thousand mile restitution journey.  That took place after he more or less resolved his issues.  May your H take another step, and then one more, and keep going

🤞 I know its a long process and longer for the ones that fight it. Your story gives us hope. Thank you for continuing to share it

[Acorn]

Ok, I bagged up all the ivy.  10 huge garden bags of it.  Good riddance!  I don’t want to see any more ivy for the next decade. 

Continuing from where I left off.

After some time has passed, LBS may come to the realization that she really need to wean herself off cherry picking her crisis spouse’s words and actions and reading the tea leaves in order to make them fit into MLC concepts and stages. 

It is my view that stepping back from constantly bathing your brain in MLC concept and stages may help you see reality.  MLC lens can distort what you see or see what’s not really there.

With more healing and detachment, LBS might even come to see that MLC may or may not be the only possible explanation for what is going on with her spouse. And you consider the possibility of other mitigating factors, such as marriage that has been dysfunctional for many years, clinical depression, complicated grief disorder, personality disorder, substance addiction, habitual lying, serial cheating, etc.  Add MLC to the mix and things get complicated.  People are complicated, too.

Just my opinion.  Sample of one.

[Curiosity]

Excellent discussion, as always. It’s entirely possible - and essential to reach a place of healing - to realize that no matter how much fog was present, no matter how many enablers they were surrounded by, no matter how many extenuating circumstances existed… the actions taken and the words spoken were because of choices made by the MLCer. And yes, both people have to realize that and own it and accept it. And further, it is just as important to recognize any frailty that may have been present in the relationship before BD, to recognize that that frailty lies in choices made by both people, and for both people to work to do better, whether in a reconciled relationship or in their future relationships. Early on, taking responsibility can feel like shouldering the blame for something that you either didn’t cause, or at least you alone didn’t cause. Moving forward, though, taking responsibility feels completely liberating, because it means you are in control - not of everything, but of your own path forward, of your own response to whatever might arise.

[UrsaMajor]

Torn, from my sample of one, I saw that H’s awareness of what he had done was the first step of a thousand mile restitution journey.  That took place after he more or less resolved his issues.  May your H take another step, and then one more, and keep going. 

Enjoy the rest of the day, folks!

This is one of the points that I think gets forgotten about often... The LBS is so enthusiastic and fearful that the Mid-Lifer just might begetting their head out of their .... fog... that we (the royal collective "we")  might forget that the REAL work for the Mid-Lifer can ONLY get started once they have dealt with and begun resolving their own internal issues that brought them to that stage in the first place. Anything else is really a "false start" and more akin to a cover-up rather than really dealing with the initial causes of the issue to begin with.....

It’s entirely possible - and essential to reach a place of healing - to realize that no matter how much fog was present, no matter how many enablers they were surrounded by, no matter how many extenuating circumstances existed… the actions taken and the words spoken were because of choices made by the MLCer. And yes, both people have to realize that and own it and accept it.

[Acorn]

Thank you, UM, Curiosity and HF (apologies for omitting you in my previous post) for sharing your thoughts. 

…..

The LBS is so enthusiastic and fearful that the Mid-Lifer just might begetting their head out of their .... fog... that we (the royal collective "we")  might forget that the REAL work for the Mid-Lifer can ONLY get started once they have dealt with and begun resolving their own internal issues that brought them to that stage in the first place. Anything else is really a "false start" and more akin to a cover-up rather than really dealing with the initial causes of the issue to begin with..... 

You put your finger on an important point, UM. 

I’m willing to bet my 10 bags of ivy clippings that any significant amount of work done on the issues by MLCer are, more often than not, unseen and unheard.  Those little changes LBS observes in MLCer’s mannerism, interaction level, interests, a little smile here, a few words there, are not all that meaningful, I suggest.  Arn’t those fluctuations just part of being human, not necessarily any sign of working through issues? 

Moving forward, though, taking responsibility feels completely liberating, because it means you are in control - not of everything, but of your own path forward, of your own response to whatever might arise.

You nailed it, Curiosity.  I couldn’t agree with you more! 

If you do not fully own your feelings, behaviours, decisions, and everything else that springs forth from your own mind and body, you have little agency to fix it, either.   Such common sense but sometimes it goes AWOL. 

….

I would like to pay tribute to HB on my own thread  (Her passing was mentioned in the thread, ‘Rest In Peace: When someone dies.’)

Her wise guidance in the turbulent times after BD was invaluable in charting my own journey. 

Thank you, HB.

Rest In Peace.