Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Archives => Story Threads 2021 => Topic started by: 5hilmerton on June 20, 2020, 06:23:44 PM

Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 20, 2020, 06:23:44 PM
Hi there, BD for me was May 2019.  H left on planned annual visit to family on 12/31/2019. He usually returns in a month. We have been married 40 years H is 72 yrs.  I understand H is in the elder crisis but has all of the same Alien responses.  We have 3 adult children D36, D32, S31 and 2 grands B6 mo. and  G2.5 years.  We are/were an extremely close family until BOOM! My children are confused, my son 31 stays in closest contact with his father he will not give up.  H is my son's hero my son recognizes that his father is different and is hurting especially with Father's day tomorrow.  Today my children did a live face call to H.  I heard the call but stayed away.  He was so happy to hear from them and see his grandson.  My kids were happy to see and speak to their Dad but we're very surprised that he was happy like he used to be with the exception he did not ask about me. Wondering what the difference might be.
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Thunder on June 20, 2020, 07:13:00 PM
Hi and welcome 5hil.  I'm sorry to see you here.

It is very unusual for a 72 year old to go into a midlife crisis.  I would think he is past midlife.

Could there be maybe something medically going on with him?
Maybe a little background could help us support you.   Like how long has he been acting different?  Has his personality changed from what it was before?  If so, in what way?
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on June 22, 2020, 04:26:06 AM
Bump

Hi 5hil

I agree with Thunder - 72 is outside the usual MLC bracket. 

Is there an OW? 

If you can give a little more information we can help you with more appropriate guidance.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 22, 2020, 07:39:09 AM
Hello All,
let's see where do I start....to the question is there an OW?  I believe so.  Could this be a  medical issue?  Anything is possible I do believe there is depression.  My story: H and I have been married 40 years.
H was married before and has a D45. H is 13 years older than i, quiet hardworking.  We have been soul mates since we met.  We did everything together he treated me like I was royalty.  And our children D36,  D32, S31 were/are his pride and joy.

 We lost a son to a drowning at 2.5 yrs. he would have been 34.  H never dealt with this loss.  We have moved with our jobs 4 times across the US.  This was hard on the kids and H was by my side to get our children through those trying times.

H is still very handsome and energetic non stop man always working on projects. In 2014 H retired and started going to visit his daughter and family and would stay for two weeks to a month. H would call me mostly every other day as much as possible.  He never liked texting and would not allow our children to text during meals or family time.

In 2019 when H returned from his trip he was a non stop texting maniac morning and evening.  Before he would leave his phone laying around but now it was always with him.  Before he charged his phone in the bathroom now he charged it by his bedside. Before we went everywhere together now it felt like he did not want to be in the same room with me. Did not want me to touch him and would cling to his side of the bed.

May 2019 I said to him "I noticed you came back very angry." To which he replied " I am angry and I don't know why.  I did not want to come back. I don't feel love for you it has been killed " I asked him why he did come back and pretty much the spewing started.  At one point he told my kids and I that something was happening to him he was not sure what, but for us not to worry about it he would control it.  He said to ignore him he was just being an old fool. Then started history rewriting, accusations, and so much more...

I started researching, questioning and truly, thoroughly confused. I was told although the mid life crisis was usually earlier in life studies have shown it can happen in later years although not as common.  My DIL's brother and father are Drs. and my S reaches out to them.  My S called my H Dr. and shared these anomalies of his Dad's behaviour. H just had physical perfect results and takes no medications.

H left Dec 31, 2019 and he sends me a text once or twice a month last text was on Mother's day.  Short but kind no engagement for conversation. Since H left his D was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and Lupus and occasionally H does send me updates on her.  My kids did a face with H on father's day and although I was in the other room I heard the call.  He was very happy to see and talk to them.  They were very surprised that he was with scraggly facial hair and his hair not combed since he has always kept himself well groomed.  So there you have it......
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Rippedapart on June 22, 2020, 08:08:57 AM
Hello and welcome.

You are not alone. 

Welcome to the forum and I am sorry you are here. 

My H turned 68 this year.  In 2014 just before he turned 62 bomb drop happened.  I am 8 years younger than my H. 
Two year previous lots of things happened in our lives and I could see the change in him...just like you mentioned.
he left me for. A woman older than me whom he met when he was 28...they knew each other for 3 days !!!

I believe my H is having a Late Life Crisis.....he is still monstering at times and is totally immature for his years.  H is busy trying to keep old age away....6 days at gym...2-4 hours a day....he is relentless.   I believe he’s running hard,  He’s also the biggest coward since this happened, he has run away to our Holiday Home in another country and is hiding from his family.  He also won’t answer his fone to his two siblings .  he only responds to the odd text from them...as long as it’s not about him, our marriage or our children.

He is a man that won’t and looking back never really has worried much about responsibility...he dumped all that on me lol.  He had good parents and a happy family life,  I do believe it’s an internal struggle he’s dealing with, but this is an exceptionally stubborn man and from what I can see, even though I consider him a Vanisher he will never look within and deal with his issues,  it’s easier to blame everyone else.

Again welcome,   I am sure  Some of the moderators will be along soon to welcome you officially.  The advice on this forum has been so helpful to me.

Ripped.


Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Thunder on June 22, 2020, 08:13:49 AM
Well 5hilmer first of all thank you for the information, it helps.

I have to say it sure sounds like a MLC.
The quick change in him, but also a OW is pretty right on target.  Plus loosing a child not that long ago could be the trigger for his crisis.  He doesn't know why he feels different, some confusion there, and rewriting history.

If this is all true and he is in a crisis, he could be in it for a long time, I'm sorry to say.
I would recommend reading the articles on the site, they can be very helpful to get you though this, and having support from others who have gone through this.  There is a lot of wisdom out here.

Are you protecting your finances?  This should be the number one thing you should do because some of these MLCer's can spend money like water, so keep a good eye on everything.  Know where all your money is.

You did not cause this to happen, 5hilmer.  No matter what he tells you.
You can do nothing to fix him either.  Your job now will be to take very good care of yourself, in every way.

Get some exercise, even if it's a good walk everyday outside.  Try to eat something healthy every day, even if it's not a lot.  Rest if you can't sleep.
I'm glad it sounds like you have a nice family who can support you.

I'm really sorry you are having to deal with this.  It's no fun, that's for sure.
Keep posting, there is usually someone around, as we are from all different countries and time zones.

Big Hug
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 22, 2020, 08:56:25 AM
Thank you for embracing me with your words of wisdom. Not sure what type of MLC'r H would be considered.

Ripped,
you said your H is a vanisher does that mean he does not live at home?  Does he stay in contact with you?
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Rippedapart on June 22, 2020, 11:57:57 AM
5hilmer,

I must update my thread soon.

2014.  My H stayed at home  .
2015 Moved abroad to our holiday home...he is still there.

Very little contact from him from 2015 to mid 2016 until he wanted to return home.
4 returns home...Last one 2017

I have not physically seen my husband since July 2017 to date.
He would contact by text or email...never rings to talk on phone...only when he wanted to return or when I refused to discuss important issues by text or email....H is constantly hiding behind texts.

Contact resumed in 2019 ....I stopped contact in February as he was still in replay, still is I think.
He has told me he won’t be home, I’ve accepted that,  I honestly could not be with an immature man that he is now and I really never played the game of  keeping quiet while he monstered constantly....I respect myself too much.

It’s a long hard road. And as most of us here have said, we probably didn’t or couldn’t detach sooner, but when you do, you will know it and it is a good feeling.  Life is calmer that’s for sure.

Feel free to pm me anytime if you like.

I hope I do not  come across as bitter, I really am not, just tired like most of us and now learning to just enjoy each day and letting go, it’s all you can do really.

Ripped.







Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Rippedapart on June 22, 2020, 12:06:51 PM
Ps.

Sorry, I went on as usual.

I see H as Vanisher because of the distance between us and also because he doesn’t really make an effort with our children.  He texts them as if he is their buddy and not their father.  He once told me that he knew everything would be fine with the children, house etc as I was more than capable of looking after everything and that he admired me ....oh my lord these MLCers.   ??? :-\
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on June 22, 2020, 01:05:17 PM
HI 5hil

Your H is an on and off -er contact person.  He will contact you but it is sporadic.

Ripped apart - your H is not a Vanisher - vanishers do just that and have no contact. They literally vanish off the face of the earth usually deleting any other form of contact.   He is also an On and Off -er.

I agree with Thunder - the business with the phone in 2019 certainly suggested an OW.  Whether she is still on the scene is debatable but he is still very much at the beginning of the MLC tunnel and this could be a long haul.

The best thing you can do is to learn to detach, protect your finances - do your research on MLC so that you become informed and therefore aware of lies ahead for you.  Keep venting/journalling on here. Keep asking questions and keep focussed on your self love and self care.

Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Rippedapart on June 22, 2020, 02:05:39 PM
Hi song and dance,

Thanks  for clarification.  I do understand the concept regarding MLCer types.

After 6.5 years of little contact and showing absolutely no interest in their lives, they and I consider him a Vanisher and a stranger.  So do his own siblings who no longer make contact with him either.   

just my opinion on my situation.

Apologies for the thread hijack 5Hilmer

Ripped.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 22, 2020, 03:12:37 PM
No apologies needed at all Ripped.  I learn as I read....I will PM you!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: barbiedoll on June 22, 2020, 08:26:14 PM
Welcome 5Hil. I am sorry to read about your situation but happy you found us on Heros Spouse.  From reading your story it certainly sounds like MLC to me . Being 72 just is far outside of what the typical age is for a MLC  however I believe it can happen .  A friend of mine swears that her father had a MLC when he left for a 29 year old women  ...he was 69 years old.  He checked all the boxes , had all the behaviors and tried to return to his family 18 months after he left. His wife refused to have him back. Although it seems to be rare , I do believe it can happen. My husband was 55 when he left and many people believed that was a little late. Perhaps MLC knows to real age .

So welcome !  I will be following along !  I found this article to be rather interesting .

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/caregiving/caregiver-guides/coping-with-a-later-life-crisis
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on June 23, 2020, 01:18:13 AM
Quote
After 6.5 years of little contact and showing absolutely no interest in their lives, they and I consider him a Vanisher and a stranger.  So do his own siblings who no longer make contact with him either.   

just my opinion on my situation.

No worries and I can see why you would think that. Makes sense.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 23, 2020, 05:22:02 PM
Yes, I did not beg and plead with H I just felt he made up his mind.  I know I can't control him but we r too old to be riding this type of storm.  H broke my heart although I will forever love him he WAS the solid pillar in my life and he crushed that.  As I said before I am not going anywhere but this does hurt like hell.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 23, 2020, 05:27:12 PM
Thank you Barbiedoll for the article.  I read that one and it is helpful especially if you can get the horse in front of the cart.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 25, 2020, 09:14:20 AM
Hi there, apologies if I posted this twice.  Because it is storming here I am inside not outside keeping my brain from wandering.  I spent most of my morning reading an entire thread I started last night.  I learn so much from all of your wisdom, experience and actions.  But just when I think I got the bull by the horns I find myself bursting into tears 😢.  So I do this sitting on the toilet, (pardon my frankness) or when I am driving but never where someone is around. I am an only child and had a very tough childhood.  So who would think the beginning and the end would hurt so bad.
I am having trouble with that you do not have control over.  It's like turning the other cheek when  your cheeks are worn out and hurt so bad.  My H is non threatening and is not at home but I don't know if as a (STANDER) I do treat it as if he will not return or try to pursue more.  When we do communicate it is short and to the point, text only. I read other threads where the LBS just keeps staying in touch and all the hurt it appears to brings to them and their family but they keep doing it and stand strong.  Is that just another way to (STAND) stay in touch and battle this demon together? 
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 25, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
Same day another post, BD May 2019.  H communicates once or twice a month via text.  He is kind and to the point as I am with my response.  As a STANDER at what point can i, should I engage in R conversation?  I can tell he is still tense and managing his anger and confusion. I am asking when would it be appropriate to engage in conversation if he does not initiate it?  Or is it still too early, am I just helicoptering the situation?
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on June 26, 2020, 01:36:43 AM
Firstly 5hil - keep calm. 

I sense a rising panic in you because of a loss of control.

Have you read up on the communication and contact types in RCR's articles on the website.  Well worth it and will help you begin to understand what is going on?

Because of your feelings of loss of control, you want answers about the R and the future. 

You can stand throughout because you believe in your MLCer and you believe that you will at some point restore and rebuild your marriage but now the R has to sit on a shelf, wrapped up like a parcel ready for opening when the time is right.

So you focus on you and one of the ways to do that is to live as if the marriage is over (in essence the marriage you knew is) and that you are now on your own. 
Asking questions of your MLCer will only bring you answers you don't want to hear and emotionally cannot manage.  Because your expectations are still very very high.

So no R talks at all.  Keep all communication bright and breezy, non commital and to the point.  MLCers cannot cope with lots of words and chatter especially in the early stages.  If he chooses to talk you listen, you validate and then that conversation is over. 
This is a long haul test of your inner strength and enduring belief in your marriage and as OP says - time is a gift.  You may not believe it but it really is.  MLC takes time - a long time.  I have been in this for over 7 years and yes my H and I have reconnected but reconciliation is far off if at all because he still wants his own space and we are just room-mates nothing more.  I have been making decisions but 7 yrs down the road I have the strength, confidence and sheer bloody-mindedness to see them through.  My view is now that if H wants in he has to do the work.
I value myself above all else and this is something that I can control.

Loss of control is horrid when you are a fixer and most of us are in truth so this is a way of learning how to let go of the things you cannot control and one of them is your MLCer's journey.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 26, 2020, 07:32:53 AM
Song you are so very awesome and strong.  I have read your updated thread and cannot even imagine how you stand so strong.  Yes you do say everything  I am feeling.  I guess there is a rising panic within me.  As a process engineer, mother and wife I have always had the answers or fixes.

I am very worried that I will not have the stamina to stand as strong as so many of you do. I choose not to push H into a conversation because I do not want to be hurt.  At times I wonder if that is the cowards or selfish way to handle this especially when I read others jumping right in.

I love how you said a parcel wrapped up sitting on a shelf.  I guess my panic is coming from the fact he is so far away and I do not want to let him slip away when I should have been more attentive.  I do acknowledge this is a long process but i want to know when I should shake and rattle my package on the shelf.I

I will re-read  the communications and contact types one I find them.

Have a pleasant day.
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on June 26, 2020, 01:36:24 PM
Song you are so very awesome and strong.  I have read your updated thread and cannot even imagine how you stand so strong.  Yes you do say everything  I am feeling.  I guess there is a rising panic within me.  As a process engineer, mother and wife I have always had the answers or fixes.

You are too kind but everything I learned about how to become strong was ON HERE. This forum saved me from myself; the information, the advice and guidance from those who had gone before was INVALUABLE. I cannot thanks them (and there are so many) enough. 
 Being a fixer is more common than we realise and the sooner we begin to understand ourselves the sooner we can begin to detach.


I am very worried that I will not have the stamina to stand as strong as so many of you do.

Totally understandable and very accurate at the moment.  The beauty of this forum is that we all started that way. We had been sideswiped out of the blue and we lose our inner strength and ability to endure and continue.  Stamina grows - it is in fits and starts and it is deep within you whatever the outcome.


I choose not to push H into a conversation because I do not want to be hurt.  At times I wonder if that is the cowards or selfish way to handle this especially when I read others jumping right in.

If you have learned not to push H into a conversation - this is a sign of your inner strength. This is a sign that you are putting yourself and your sanity first.  It is not selfish; it is SELF -ISH because looking after you and your emotional needs is far far more important  It is most certainly not a cowards way - it is learned wisdom.


I love how you said a parcel wrapped up sitting on a shelf.  I guess my panic is coming from the fact he is so far away and I do not want to let him slip away when I should have been more attentive.  I do acknowledge this is a long process but i want to know when I should shake and rattle my package on the shelf.

Stop blaming yourself.  Should is a word you must eradicate from your own personal growth.  "I should have been 5ft 8 and athletic but I'm not!" syndrome.  The only thing you "should " do is to learn as much as you can about MLC , becoming a student 

I will re-read  the communications and contact types one I find them.

Have a pleasant day.
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: OldPilot on June 29, 2020, 03:44:18 AM
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 29, 2020, 09:07:54 AM
Thank you OP,  I appreciate all of your advice, wisdom, and guidance.  I am staying busy and trying to keep my mind from wandering.  My heart aches for all and when I read others stories I know I am in an ok place.  I am not going anywhere. I have realized I am not going anywhere not just for H but I really don't want to.

But with that said I will always have questions.  Right now as I understand my H is an on and off contacter.  What would indicate H is progressing or not?  BD May 2019, left home Dec 2019. Sends a text once or twice a month, kind and to the point not engaging.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on June 30, 2020, 01:11:23 AM
But with that said I will always have questions.  Right now as I understand my H is an on and off contacter.  What would indicate H is progressing or not?  BD May 2019, left home Dec 2019. Sends a text once or twice a month, kind and to the point not engaging.

OK 5hilmerton.... <velvet-covered 2x4 mode activated>

1) Your BD was a year ago and H moved 6 months ago - This process is an Ultra-Marathon and takes YEARS, not months for the Mid-Lifer to get through (assuming that they ever do - not all of them do). It is WAY to early to be ruminating about what "Progress" could look like... unless, of course, you are  glutton for punishment
2) If you are looking to see progress in your Mid-Lifer, you are focusing on the WRONG thing.... Stage-watching your Mid-Lifer is nothing more than ramping up of expectations and setting yourself up to be disappointed when those expectations are not met.
3) If you are looking for progress, you will invariably SEE progress or what looks like progress because it is really what we WANT SO BADLY to see... We want it so much that we interpret things as progress that are really aberrations or blips in the grand scheme... "Oh, he suppressed a fart! That must be 'progress." Sorry, that path leads the LBS in the wrong direction - it is pain-shopping....
"Doctor, it REALLY Hurts when I stick this meat fork up my nose!"
"Well then... STOP STICKING THE MEAT FORK UP YOUR NOSE!"

The person that has EARNED and DESERVES your undivided love and attention is the person looking back at you in the mirror (and, of course, your kids if applicable)... NOT your Mid-Lifer.  This is THEIR journey with THEM being responsible for the consequences of THEIR actions.... It is also the time where YOU have the chance to really review your own life, your own patterns (are there things you feel were maybe not healthy or in your best interests? Patterns of reacting that you'd like to change? NOW is the time to enact those changes - you have the chance in this time to Grow Forward in life  - NOT to be confused with "moving on."), and to walk out of the other side of this minefield stronger, more capable, more adaptable, more confident but that is also a choice that YOU get to make... THAT is what you have control over, yourself, your own growth, your emotional health....

You do not have to be "going somewhere" as long as you are not stuck sitting on the front porch in a pile of soaking snotty Kleenexes, crocheting lace doilies and waiting for the return of the prodigal spouse. That is not a good return on investment of the limited time you (and all of us) have on this spinning ball of rock floating in space. You have, as OP noted, been given the gift of time... Use it wisely for your own benefit, your own growth.... not wasting the time to watch the Mid-Lifer stumble through the tunnel and doing the Mid-Lifer thing....

<2x4 mode off>
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Treasur on June 30, 2020, 01:20:09 AM
Ah, UM is on a wisdom roll this morning  :)

How you feel is normal. Of course you have questions. Unfortunately you will learn that there are few solid 'right' answers. The closest is to try to accept the current reality and to train your brain to focus hard on putting your needs and wellbeing first.

Who initiates the texts? What is the purpose of them usually? How do you feel when you get them? Do you always respond if he texts? Or get a response if you do? And focus on reality....a text is just a text, it's not a relationship, it's certainly not a marriage is it? There is a terrible temptation in the early stages as an LBS to get sucked into mind reading too much into very small things, a kind of confirmation bias as UM said bc our brain is trying to work out what is going on and create a sense of certainty from uncertainty. It's really normal in the first couple of years or so....but it rarely serves us well  :)
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on June 30, 2020, 01:49:57 AM
Thank you OP,  I appreciate all of your advice, wisdom, and guidance.  I am staying busy and trying to keep my mind from wandering.  My heart aches for all and when I read others stories I know I am in an ok place.  I am not going anywhere. I have realized I am not going anywhere not just for H but I really don't want to.

But with that said I will always have questions.  Right now as I understand my H is an on and off contacter.  What would indicate H is progressing or not?  BD May 2019, left home Dec 2019. Sends a text once or twice a month, kind and to the point not engaging.

Re "not wanting to go anywhere" - that is fine.   That is part of the grieving process in a way.  You just need to be still and "be"   That will last a little while and the danger of that is that you will open your mind to such questions about time and progress etc.

With an "on and off" er very little will indicate progress because you are not seeing monster regularly and you will see a modicum of kindness.   MLCers cannot sustain monster every day and then switch to a more normal mode of contact - it's like a series of waves of monster/quiet/new normal/monster/quiet/new normal and so on.

Does he think about you?  Yes.  Most MLCers do - how much is the debatable question.

Is he progressing - yes but not at the speed you would like and not necessarily with the end result you have in mind. 

MLCers run and they run and run.  They sometimes run so far that they cannot even see the return line.  Some of them run and keep bouncing back but still keep running out of habit because their self growth is limited.   Depression does that.

How much have you read about depression both your own which is inevitably reactive (short lived usually) and your MLCer's?  If you want to focus on progress (and I strongly recommend that you don't) then learn as much as you can about depression and how your MLCer will be in this for the long haul.   

Try this technique which Stayed recommends - allow yourself some time in the day to focus in MLC and your own hopes/angst etc   and then the rest of the day is for you to focus on you moving forward one inch at a time.   For me- I wanted to learn about MLC so that I could understand it, step back and see it for what it was and then allow myself to get on with my life.

It can be done - so today what are you going to do for yourself that is nothing to do with your MLCer but focuses on you and that might be something as simple as doing a crossword or taking a walk somewhere new.  When you feel the need to "wallow" in MLC thoughts then time it - say 5 minutes - actively say STOP to your brain and then do something else.   

The quickest way to deal with thoughts about the MLCer is to replace them with new different and positive thoughts and actions even if they are tiny. 

After BD when I was in shock - my sister said " What can you do in the next 5 minutes that doesn't involve thinking about H? Do it and then what can you do in the next 5 minutes and so on"   That really helped me along with learning and studying MLC and focussing on my own thought processes. 
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 30, 2020, 05:11:18 AM
UM, Treasur, Song, thank you for the redirect.  I guess I must have said something to bring in the big guns, for which I am very grateful!!!!

Thank you for posting words that I will read over and over.  I am a process engineer, mother, wife and now a grandma.  I have been fixing things pretty much all of my 58 years.  I will have questions to understand like nobody's business.  I also read and search  for directions and answers to make things make sense in this small brain of mine.

I will say my heart aches and has been broken into a bazillion pieces by the last person I would have thought.  So after 40 years of doing everything together it will take me a while to down shift. I miss talking things out with my best friend.  My adult Children know and are also educating themselves about the Dad they refuse to loose.  I will not use my children to share my hurt and anger and there is anger (just a personal choice). 

As much as I don't like it I get this is a marathon not a sprint. I don't initiate contact and our conv. are brief and to the point.  I do forget the "no expectations" at times.

 I guess my questions regarding progress is not so much about when he will return if he does but more anticipation of dodging the bullet of his processing.

I spend a lot of time staying busy in my yard, with my kids and a couple of friends. I really love the idea of limiting my time thinking about this package deal with H.  So I am going to give myself a bit more structure regarding time thinking about this crack in the road.

Thank you all for you time and wisdom.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Treasur on June 30, 2020, 05:24:58 AM
Quote
I am a process engineer, mother, wife and now a grandma.  I have been fixing things pretty much all of my 58 years.

So that means you are smart and have some top notch skills, my friend.
I'd suggest that a simple starting place is to focus them on you e.g. 'Hmmm, how do I make life a bit better than this crappy moment' stuff (bc we all have those moments)....and then towards your kids, grandkids, pets, friends, random nice strangers.......anyone or anything but your h essentially on the wasted pearls before swine rule  ;)
Title: Father's Day
Post by: GWife9 on June 30, 2020, 05:54:13 AM
Just catching up on your story 5hil!
I'm sorry for your pain. I'm right there with you!
So much great advice on your thread, I am going to follow along too. Hang in there!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on June 30, 2020, 09:26:18 AM
Just catching up on your story 5hil!
I'm sorry for your pain. I'm right there with you!
So much great advice on your thread, I am going to follow along too. Hang in there!
OMG GW so much power with the words of the wise and experienced.  It gave me the "I AM STRONG" morning lift I needed. 
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 3Boys4Me on June 30, 2020, 12:06:40 PM
I’m sorry for your pain GW9, I’m grateful you are here, comments on this thread are very wise. It takes time, a lot of time for the LBS to process, especially if you believed your marriage was rock solid as many of us did. I lam a huge processor and I love to learn “everything about everything” - that kept me deeply obsessing about MLC for a long time, every day, often hours on end. I got to a place where PTSD and panic, combined with a highly reactive monstering clinger, I thought I would lose my mind. Took about 2 years for me to regroup baby steps at a time - and the last year I have begun to see myself again and find a sense of peace and purpose. I still think of MLC and my H every single day, but I don’t obsess near as much, I recover more quickly when I do, and I am now helping my kids detach as they are still experiencing highly-charged negative interactions with their dad.

Be kind to yourself, I’m standing and I often debate why with myself, then I remember that this process takes 3 to 7 years or longer and some never come out of it - learning to stand FOR YOU and your healing is the only way to get through it, it takes time, self-compassion, self-love,  support and a willingness to accept MLC for what it is, not what you want it to be, along with the strength to look away from you beloved spouse and let him be...

Xox
3Boys 
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 03, 2020, 05:55:29 AM
July 4 is almost here, we have plans to do a bar b que and swim here at the house with my family.  My state is increasing the use of face masks in more counties so we feel this is the safest for all.  My oldest and granddaughter live in Italy so this pandemic has been very close to our family for a while.

I have always loved being outside working, but my job was so demanding and due to a back surgery in 2017 after i retired, i stopped.  H always kept a pristine yard and always got so many compliments. Well i have used yard work as my daily therapy and i will say the yard looks pretty darn good.

Y'all have a wonderful, blazing 4th.  If you don't celebrate the 4th make it your happy day!!!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 05, 2020, 07:49:31 AM
Hello everyone, i hope everyone had an amazing 4th!!!  Well today is my H's  BD first one in 40 years we have not spent together with family and friends.  H has been gone close to 6 months now.  I do not initiate contact but i always reply kindly, quick and to the point.  His text are always kind but not engaging.  I have read from one of our distinguished vets that they would mirror their spouse with communication.  So because he has wished me happy birthday and happy mother's day i plan to do the same.

So i spent a while last night creating pretty much a one liner text.  I have it all ready to go but i have not pushed the send button yet.  I am thinking i am so prepared and all is good.  But than i get a message from oldest D36 who lives in Italy "when does Dad plan on returning he has been gone for 6 months and left you with all of the responsibilities?"

My children D36, D32 and S31 are all educated and we have discussed the MLC. My oldest in fact is a female copy of her Dad.  But she is the last to buy into the MLC drama. So we spent time with her venting and telling me that she was going to have a very firm talk with her Dad.

I let her know i understood those are her feelings and gave her some thoughts to consider.  She responded "noted i will keep that in mind".  After that she sent me some incredible pictures of her, her husband and my granddaughter on the beaches of Sardenia Italy celebrating the 4th. 

All is good now i am going to hit the send button.  Reaffirming "no expectations" .
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 06, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
So i hit the send button and all went well.  H thanked me as he usually does.  I usually stop at that to not encourage anger etc.  But yesterday i simply asked how he was doing?  H blew up my phone with text regarding his fear of the Covid.  He sent quite a few text that i read and when i knew he had finished i just said "i am here if i can help with something". He thanked me and all was good.  I heard my children face chatting with their Dad throughout the day and he was super happy and appeared to be more engaged then usual.

  I sensed fear and true desperation within the texts from H. He was not asking me for anything but i did feel like i had just cleared a clogged drain.  Any thoughts? ?
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 08, 2020, 05:52:34 AM
Hi there, i have a random question....My H is in on and off contacter. Is contact measured or defined as INITIATED by H or does REPLYING count?  I know this question is odd so here is why i ask.  I have been only replying kindly, short and to the point when H contacts me.  It has been suggested i start reaching out occasionally.  I have had good opportunities with, Father's Day, H bday and our Son's Anniversary today. 

Before our texts would end abruptly.  On H's birthday he opened up for a while regarding his stress and fear of the Covid virus.  I don't want to jump in and over do it.  This is why i ask if  H replying counts as contact?
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Acorn on July 08, 2020, 11:23:50 AM
Hey, 5, if I may share my 2 cents’ worth on your query, please.

Don’t overthink it. 
Don’t sweat it. 
Don’t read into any interactions — It’s like reading tea leaves. 

Just do authentic you. 

A valuable personal lesson I have learned through H’s MLC is that it matters little whether he is an MLCer or WAS, vanisher, on/off-er, clinger, whatever.  That I will not be dictated by who and what he is.  That I shall be Acorn.

Any sort of classification of your husband should not define and dictate who you are and how you behave.  Be true to your core self.  Follow your heart and intuition that is driven by goodness — I am sure yours is. 

Below is the kind of pep talk I used to give myself:

- If you would like to reach out to him, purely out of love and grace — and there is unlikely to be any emotional cost to you — fine, go ahead. 

- If reaching out is going to make you focus on him, or anxiously wait for his reply, or analyze his reply to the last letter, forget it.  There is no self respect or dignity in that. 

- If reaching out is a part of plan to influence him, DEFINITELY forget it. 

Sure, ‘mirroring’ his behaviour is good enough at the beginning.  After a little time has passed, you do you.   

Just my personal view.   :)
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 08, 2020, 01:35:21 PM
Thank you ACORN,
great thoughts and suggestions, all are very welcome.  Everything you say is absolutely correct and extremely helpful.  I am a process engineer and completely over think and over analyze just about everything.  Thing is i love data and it gives me something to process.

I guess from what i have read and suggestions that have been made to me on this site makes me careful to not step on the land mind.  As i grow and look in the mirror i do have to approach with caution.

I am confident i can be myself but i am definitely stepping into new territory.  I am not trying to influence H because i do not know him (no hidden agenda).  I am really just trying to to learn what is recommended and what's discouraged.

I like your "pep talk" for sure. I do over analyze/over think and re-write the text to H quite a few times before i hit send.  Guess maybe i need to release some of the structure i live by.

Thank you very much for responding.  I don't usually get too many responses. 😊
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Music45 on July 08, 2020, 02:33:31 PM
Hello 5
I think Acorn has given some great advice there.
Most of us have done the overthinking thing. Gosh I know I have and do. Don't worry if you do, you're human.
As far as contact goes for me....well I do the mirroring thing. I hear from my H a lot at the moment but I don't often contact him first. In the  first 18 months of his MLC he did a few "false returns" before going off into the tunnel proper for a year +. I only mention this because you're in the early stages of dealing with this so you're right to keep your expectations low. How he is now, might not be how he is in 6 months - so whatever contact you have, make sure it's what you can deal with and live with as it'll likely mean little to him and a lot to you.
Just my experience. You sound like you're getting to grips with it - go you! Don't stress yourself out if you try something and his response is off. As Ursa will tell you, dealing with an MLCer is like trying to taste green.
Hang in there.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 08, 2020, 03:18:15 PM
Thank you so much Music45, i am happy to hear the different thoughts and suggestions.  In the very beginning i did sometimes set myself up. I knew not to have expectations but a couple of times he did not send a text like on Easter not going to lie i was surprised and sadden.  I know i get tougher and more focused on my own routine day by day. But as i said in an earlier post i also don't want to step on a land mine because i was too distracted with my own.

So very happy that you shared your wisdom with me!!  Knowledge is power, leading to strong and well made decisions.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 12, 2020, 04:34:02 AM
I am working away in my yard, learning to mow the lawn with H's zero turn mower.  Crashed into a neighbor friendly fence got the mower stuck and pulled out. Need to repair fence and it is blazing hot. Had a new roof put on due to hail storm damage. Microwave caught on fire had that replaced. Air conditioning went out, it's only triple digit heat here. One of the roofers left the water running and flooded my back yard. All within the last couple of months.  I continue distracting myself with my two girl friends as much as possible.  H is not here and has been on and off contact BD May 2019.

So i think i am doing pretty good being on my own during a pandemic (thank goodness for home maintenance insurance).  But what i did not anticipate is having an OM give me a compliment and ask me out.  WHAT!!! I panicked. I worked in Corporate America and every once in a while would have to divert this type of attention but i could handle that.

i get pretty dirty and sweaty from working in the yard at least 5 to 6 mornings a week cuz by 11:00 a.m. it is headed for 90 degrees plus. So i call it quits and go inside, take my shower and spend more time on my hair and makeup than before.  Then i am off to do whatever within the Covid-19 limits. Really doing yard work, hair and makeup is so i can feel better about myself and stay distracted.

So as i work on myself while MLC H is doing whatever he is doing i never imagined this additional distraction.  Thing is i realized i AM vulnerable and am very flattered.  Before these types of comments/compliments would annoy me, mostly because it embarrassed me.

So my ask here is: as a STANDER what experience have y'all had with this and how did you deal with it?

Title: Father's Day
Post by: Music45 on July 13, 2020, 05:41:31 AM
Hello 5
Can't help you with this one much as not had any compliments or date requests....can't remember what that's like!!! Lol.
All I'd say is go because YOU want to or don't got because YOU don't want to.....as long as you don't do anything in an attempt to get your H's attention. You're worth more than that and it's not fair on the guy who asked. Also even if your H does notice, it likely won't make much difference  - or (and this might be worse), make him seem like he wants a relationship with you again, only to retreat again. That I have experienced more than once and it's no fun at all.
Do what you can live with and what makes you happy.
Just my thoughts fwiw

Hugs
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 13, 2020, 06:34:32 AM
Thank you M45,
I really needed to hear something from those with experience.  I have no interest in trying to impress or influence my H.  He is checked out at this point. And for sure i do not have that type of interest in an OM.  It just shocked me and came out of nowhere.

But i do realize now i am vulnerable and miss talking to a male.  It just makes a difference to me as the female and male perspective differ so much.  I have male friends but they all know and respect H.  I don't want to tarnish his reputation, but i need to share and release. 

Not sure if this gentleman will be the right person but it certainly did awaken feelings of vulnerability that i did not know are within me.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 22, 2020, 04:42:58 AM
So i personally continue to cycle through my H's MLC, he used to be the one i would talk to about everything. I do a pretty good job of keeping myself distracted throughout the day. In the evening or early morning sometimes both I come to the forum to read, learn, reflect and regroup. I realize i have so many mixed emotions that i did not know could be active all at once.

I know i must not over think this MLC PHENOMENON. But that is hard i don't necessarily think about what H is doing but i do think a lot about what's next???? My H is an on an off contacter and when he does reach out by text it is non threatening to date. I know it could be worse as i have read with others and i hope it does not get unbearable.  But i never thought i would be making my life decisions without H.

I think i am afraid to allow myself to be happy and to admit that life without H is possible.  I feel that i will let my adult children down or they will be angry or hurt if i see my life without their Dad.  Quite frankly i feel i will let myself down if i feel in any way i am not waiting with open arms for his return.

Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on July 22, 2020, 07:38:04 AM

I think i am afraid to allow myself to be happy and to admit that life without H is possible.  I feel that i will let my adult children down or they will be angry or hurt if i see my life without their Dad.  Quite frankly i feel i will let myself down if i feel in any way i am not waiting with open arms for his return.

Totally normal.  And no you won't let your adult children down unless you say one thing and then do the other.  Be consistent. Take your time and understand that choosing to stand is a daily decision and if you are truly done - you will know it.  If in doubt don't. 

Waiting with open arms never works; standing and becoming emotionally healthy, whole and detached so that when, and if the MLCer returns, you are ready for the hard work that will ensue, does.

Your adult children will be hurt and shocked but I have found mine to be pearls of wisdom from time to time.  They can step back and see you hurting and they can see their dad behaving completely out of character; They won't always agree with you standing and as the MLC progresses they are very aware of you standing still and not moving forward with your own life.  So sometimes they will ask you to D your H or sometimes they will ask/tell you to stop hoping, standing etc....

Sometimes they will withdraw because they don't want to get involved but will be supportive of both parties. 

Adult children are adults and capable of seeing the light after the dust settles a lot quicker than the LBS can.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 22, 2020, 08:15:01 AM
Thank you Songanddance, you used the words "TOTALLY NORMAL" probably one of the most comforting statements i have read.  I have my highs and lows but never thought of any of these feeling being totally normal.

You are right all of my adult children are just that.  It is times like these i am so proud of the adults they are.  Cannot say they are all on the same page with me, their Father or themselves but we are a strong family and will always find away.

I like to post here because there is so much that i want to ask and ponder without my family present.  I don't trust myself with the opinions and guidance of others who do not know about MLC.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 9393roo on July 22, 2020, 08:39:02 AM
One of the best things to come out of MLC for me is a whole new relationship with my 4 adult children.  For all of their upbringing it was always Mom and Dad as one unit.  When MLC hit and it was no longer Mom and Dad, I had to redefine my relationship into an individual one. 

I’ve come to learn our children love both me and my husband in different ways.  They all want the best for both of us either together or separate.  My relationship with each one of them is now mine and it is awesome.  My H has a very strained relationship with each one and while I feel bad about this, I stopped trying to fix it. 

I never discuss my relationship with my H with my children.  They know enough and know he isn’t quite right.  My 27 year old son who moved in with us during quarantine has a front row seat now.  He often says to me “Mom what do YOU want” he is a reminder that our family is going to be ok with or without my H around. 

Focus on your relationship with your children.  It is truly a gift to realize that they will love you no matter what your decisions are because you are consistent and there for them.  Let your H form his own relationship with them, even if it isn’t anything for the moment.

I think all of my children have formed a while new respect for me in this process.  Especially my D 20 who was 16 at the time of BD.  The first 2 years I didn’t have respect for myself and I think she would go off shaking her head at my attachment to her dad. 

Hold your head high.  Be consistent be calm and detach from your H.  It’s the best thing you can do for yourself, your family and you H. 

Hugs
Roo
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 22, 2020, 11:22:31 AM
Oh Roo..your words and guidance to be consistent really mean a lot.  I am an only child so having my own children more than one is a blessing for sure.  I know i am blessed but the forum really keeps me constant with my head high. Well most of the time.  I even look in the mirror and have noticed i slouch.  So i have been reminding myself shoulders back body and soul.

H is 14 years older than me he retired in 2014.  He always wished i could retire so we could do things together.  Thing is he did not wait for me he went off on his own retirement mission without me.

I love being with my children and the grands but i like my own time too.  They worry about me about us but we are strong.  H and i have been together for 40 years and i never really learned to have fun by myself.  Now i am off with friends having fun, within the Covid limits of course.  Last night about 6:00 pm i looked at my watch and thought crap i need to be home H is probably wondering where i am.  Bittersweet no one was waiting for me but went home when i wanted too.

I also don't discuss my relationship or lack of with my children.  Even though i am walking a new journey i am still very private.  Although confused because the only saw their Dad treat me with love and kindness i know they love us both very much.  And yes i spent many years trying to keep peace in the family and being the hub central you are right they will figure out their relationship with each of us individually.

Thank you
5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 27, 2020, 05:02:19 AM
I started this post last night but i was too emotionally drained so i just went to bed.  I have not spoken to H since he left Dec 2019 only the occasional text from H, BD May 2019.  We talked for the first time yesterday he initiated the text and i finally picked up the phone to ask "what's his plan".

I understand it is early in the MLC process to question our relationship so i started with some basic questions. H is out of the country visiting his family and ??????? Although i can see where what and how much he spends of his OWN money i just choose not too.  However yesterday he text me and asked me if i would please move a significant amount of money from his IRA into his bank account. This triggered my phone call to try and understand his thinking if possible.

After the pleasantries, i started gently asking questions:

M Are you now planning to live outside of the US?
H ( clear but a bit lethargic, apathetic voice)  good question, i don't know since i have been sick from the food here.  But i am somewhat happy.  Government Hospitals here are dangerous so i only go to private Dr's offices. I only eat food that is safe with fiber or oatmeal but i am always feeling hungry. I don't know if that answers your question.
M So you are sick?
H I have been but i am starting to feel better.  I had some test done and i don't understand the results so i am going to the Dr tomorrow.
M oh wow sorry to hear that, glad you are feeling better. 
H So my friends have rented me a small room they wanted to rent me a larger room but i don't need too much. i owe them some money and i have some other bills i need to pay. ( i did not ask what he will be using his money for).I
H I really cannot continue to maintain our yard it is too hard for me i am just too old, (H 72 extremely fit and healthy and takes no meds.) I don't like the smell of the exhaust and after i am outside i start itching and then i cannot sleep at night.
M Yes i understand our yard is really large and takes a lot of work.  You always keep it so beautiful so now i go and work in the yard every day so i can keep it looking the way you left it.
H  You should be careful the yard is to big.
M I understand but i want you to know you will never have to do this yard by yourself again i can help.
H It is too expensive to maintain that house
M So what do you suggest? Do you want to sell the house???
H No answer
H i really wish D32 would go back into the medical field and leave the make-up industry (  D32 left her job as a medical professional to pursue her love of makeup and skin care) She needs a real job so she will be secure.
M i understand she just lost her job due to Covid so she now has choices.
H i don't really want to go back to the US the country is out of control.  I feel when i am there everyone is just staring at me.
M So what can i do do you want me to sell the house?
H you should sell it for you and buy a smaller home more manageable.  i do not want a dime of the profit.  You keep the money to take care of yourself.
M So what about us, do you want me in your life?
H  You know i just don't about you and me i can't answer that.
H To tell you the truth (in a shaky voice) i am really afraid to go back home. I just cannot do that again.
M Ok, well i will make sure i get your money requested for you.  I will leave you alone take care of yourself.
At this point i really did not hear my H of before but i did hear things he had mentioned but never with any discussion to make it happen.  In the past we talked about at some point selling our home and using the money to buy a smaller home and to travel.  I always said let's hang on as long as we can because it is a great investment.  He picked out the house and always loved the yard i did not realize it was becoming a burden to him especially since he was always planting something new and came in so proud and to take me out to show men after BD.  I am truly confused not sure how to act, feel, plan with all of this.  THOUGHTS??
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on July 27, 2020, 05:48:41 AM
Good morning 5hilmerton,

I can understand why you would be emotionally drained after a conversation like that with your husband. And you had not talked to him on the phone since May 2019. It is a great deal to process....and like everything about MLC, hard to make any sense at all from what he "means"..I doubt even he knows.

MLCers go from one thing to another, one job or one place to another, some go from OW to another...nothing really satisfies. In all the times I have seen my husband, I have never seen him really seem "happy"..like a cloud is hanging over his head.

This is our 7th home. He always said he liked cutting the grass and shoveling snow. When I would suggest having someone else do it, he'd say no, I like doing it. The yard was always meticulous...every blade of grass cut the same length......he said to me, he never wants to own a house again, that there was always a to do list and he has lived in apartments for the last 13 years.......we could easily afford services to do the stuff...I don't know, maybe the responsibility
of anything, children, a wife, a home...he just doesn't want any of that.

Quote
I will leave you alone take care of yourself.

We want so much to help them, to work together to figure this out or at least provide a "safe" and "happy" space for them...but you are quite right...they alone can figure this out.

I did keep our large house, like you said, I saw it as an investment and I love the area and the land I live on....at one point I did have the house for sale with the intent to buy a smaller place, but when I looked at the cost it didn't make sense to move. I enjoy the yard work and some of the bigger stuff, I hire someone to do.

This contact, his talking to you by phone is "different" since he asked you to transfer $$ by text and you needed to clarify...I am wondering why he isn't able to do that himself? I can do all my banking anywhere in the world......

I also ask about his removing a large sum from his IRA...are you ok financially? Half of that belongs to you legally.

You will need time to process all this.

This :
Quote
To tell you the truth (in a shaky voice) i am really afraid to go back home. I just cannot do that again.

In their minds, they are trying to find something that satisfies ..and they "fear" returning perhaps, something tells them they just cannot do that again...

Try not to go to "crazy" trying to make sense of what he said....."digest it" and then let it go and continue on as you have been doing. Give yourself plenty of time though, for that was a big encounter with him.

What was once so easy, to be able to talk to one another freely, is now so terribly painful.

((((HUGS))))
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Thunder on July 27, 2020, 07:54:37 AM
5hil I totally agree with xyzcf, take your time..digest things and don't make any big decisions until you're sure what you want to do.  There is no rush.

I guess I had a moment too when he wanted you to move a large amount out of the IRA.
Yes please remember this money is half yours.  Just be aware of that.

Sounds like right now he's pretty certain he does not want to come back, and is not sure about the two of you. 
He is telling you to go ahead and sell the house and keep any profits for yourself.
This is a decision only you can make.  I would make decisions based on what is good for you.  You are the important one here.  He's making decision for himself.

If he doesn't come back would you feel the house and yard are too much work and possibly something smaller would be better for you?  Just something to think about.
You could still have a nice smaller yard to work in.

Well you sound like you are doing ok.  Getting out is good, exercise is good.
I used to love to take long walks when I had things on my mind, and being a fellow "over analyzer" I always had things on my mind.  ha ha

Hugs
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on July 27, 2020, 08:31:57 AM
Interesting and typical MLCer conversation where we try to interpret and read more into it than we should.  We get a nugget of information and it gives us hope and then that is defeated in the next moment.

You handled yourself well 5Hil.

I am very conscious of MLC speak and so if you don't mind, I might just try and translate a little of what your MLCer H is quite possibly genuinely saying. It is often easier to do this when they are in the early stages and of course none of what I write will be correct but it might just help you see the words in a different and more healing light.

M Are you now planning to live outside of the US
Good question, direct and seeking a clear answer
H ( clear but a bit lethargic, apathetic voice)  good question, i don't know since i have been sick from the food here.  But i am somewhat happy.  Government Hospitals here are dangerous so i only go to private Dr's offices. I only eat food that is safe with fiber or oatmeal but i am always feeling hungry. I don't know if that answers your question.
I haven't been well, feel sorry for me.  I think I might be ok but I really don't want to answer your question because I have no idea what I am going to do.
M So you are sick?
H I have been but i am starting to feel better.  I had some test done and i don't understand the results so i am going to the Dr tomorrow.
Yes but I feel sorry for myself and so am handing control over to someone else to make me feel better
M oh wow sorry to hear that, glad you are feeling better.

H So my friends have rented me a small room they wanted to rent me a larger room but i don't need too much. i owe them some money and i have some other bills i need to pay. ( i did not ask what he will be using his money for).I
My friends have been helpful in helping me feel sorry for myself. I am broke because I have been spending my money everywhere I can; I am making sure that my money goes on that which makes me feel better in my head.  (BTW almost all MLCers say they are broke!)

H I really cannot continue to maintain our yard it is too hard for me i am just too old, (H 72 extremely fit and healthy and takes no meds.) I don't like the smell of the exhaust and after i am outside i start itching and then i cannot sleep at night.
(This is out of nowhere.....)  I know you are going to ask me why I left, I don't actually know so I will blame the size of the yard  because it's the one thing I did all by myself so I can make you feel guilty.
M Yes i understand our yard is really large and takes a lot of work.  You always keep it so beautiful so now i go and work in the yard every day so i can keep it looking the way you left it.
H  You should be careful the yard is to big.
I don't want you to do anything because that will feel like you're controlling me from afar.

M I understand but i want you to know you will never have to do this yard by yourself again i can help.
H It is too expensive to maintain that house
Actually it's not the yard; it's the house. Yes it's the house that's the problem, that has taken all of my money and is why I had to leave.

M So what do you suggest? Do you want to sell the house???
H No answer
Ahh - didn't think about that. Sell the house - sounds serious. Umm - Don't know how to answer that one because it means making a decision and I don't want to make decisions so I will change the subject.

H i really wish D32 would go back into the medical field and leave the make-up industry (  D32 left her job as a medical professional to pursue her love of makeup and skin care) She needs a real job so she will be secure.
M i understand she just lost her job due to Covid so she now has choices.
H i don't really want to go back to the US the country is out of control.  I feel when i am there everyone is just staring at me.
I don't want to catch Covid and so that's the reason I left. Everyone's reactions are to blame for me leaving. I just want to run away and hide because I cannot face what I have done, I cannot face you and I will not be able to face anyone else.

M So what can i do do you want me to sell the house?
H you should sell it for you and buy a smaller home more manageable.  i do not want a dime of the profit.  You keep the money to take care of yourself.
 NOTE the change of language to "you" rather than "I"   You sell the house and then I will feel less guilty (BTW my H once said that he didn't want any money if I sold the house)  If you sell then it will make it easier for me because i "deserve" it for what I have done.  But I don't want you to suffer (ironically a true statement but misses the point completely)

M So what about us, do you want me in your life?
You had no choice but to ask that so fair one to you?  I asked that much earlier after BD.
H  You know i just don't about you and me i can't answer that.
I don't know what is going on in my head - I cannot answer questions that will control my future  (NOTE back to "I" again
H To tell you the truth (in a shaky voice) i am really afraid to go back home. I just cannot do that again.
I think this is the most truthful he has been during the conversation.
M Ok, well i will make sure i get your money requested for you.  I will leave you alone take care of yourself.

WEll handled 5hil but perhaps looking at my interpretation it might help you see that you will not get a straight answer out of him and so you now need to protect your legal and financial interests.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 27, 2020, 09:28:25 AM
OMG, Songanddance WOW!!! I do not know what i would do without the help of all of the Veterans on this site.  I hope that all the Vets and Kenda knows i would not have had that conversation as i did without all of your guidance.

My two friends who know what i am dealing with and are learning about MLC thru. me tell me they cannot believe how calm and strong i am. Not sure it is always true but i will take the compliment. They make me laugh by telling me how they would  handle it.  Thing is i have "my parcel on the shelf" as you once wrote.  I guess when i tried to sneak a peek inside the parcel was not ready to be opened.  So back on shelf it goes and i am going to digest, refresh and step right back into the MARATHON.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on July 29, 2020, 08:23:15 AM
S&D has done an AMAZING job of translating MLC-Babbelspeak into something a "normal" person might be able to understand.... But trying to figure out what is going on in his head is like trying to taste green with your elbow....



Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 29, 2020, 11:02:02 AM
Ursa your responses always makes me smile.  Songs response did help a lot and reminded me that my H is not who he was. My D's boyfriend suffers from some type of mental distractions.  I call it chasing his balloon.  He knows H very well and has a lot of respect for him.  Probably some fear too as i said H was always very protective of us.  Anyway he has given me a lot of his perspective. He told me one minute he is doing something and the next minute he is unhappy with his life decisions and will drop into depression.  He says something in your brain takes over and you have no control of what you are doing or what you are thinking.  You just want to run away and start over. Your thoughts just go all over the place you are sad but angry at the world and even more at those who try to help.  He told me if i asked H what he is thinking he would probably make up something because he does not know.  Anyway nothing professional just a conversation that helped me process.  Or as Thunder says over Analyze.

Anyway, the conversation with H shut me down for a couple of days as i digested it.  I felt like i was nesting in a different way.  I cleaned his cupboard in the kitchen and threw away his various types of nuts and peanuts.  I threw away his candy stash and some other items that were unique to his palate.  I guess i was leaving everything alone so everything would be there for him in case he does choose to return. I know the food items will go bad so it really did make sense to throw them away.

I truly felt no anger but it did light my fire to step back into the Marathon and stop with my pitty party.  Having this forum and continuous research, reading and asking all of the questions i can helps me navigate through this storm. I will say it does scare me that i cannot reach out and help him.  I am grateful for my adult children who do reach out to their Dad to make sure he knows someone will always love him.

5Hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on July 29, 2020, 11:40:35 AM
Quote
He told me one minute he is doing something and the next minute he is unhappy with his life decisions and will drop into depression.  He says something in your brain takes over and you have no control of what you are doing or what you are thinking.  You just want to run away and start over. Your thoughts just go all over the place you are sad but angry at the world and even more at those who try to help.  He told me if i asked H what he is thinking he would probably make up something because he does not know.

Thanks for sharing this insight.

The brain is a very complex thing. Often what a person shows on the outside is not at all what is happening inside their brains.

I have had a couple of instances of "dissociation"....brought about by certain extreme situations.....in those times, I was not in my body...it felt as though I could see myself and where I was physically, but that wasn't where I was.....

When we have difficulty trying to figure out why our MLCer is doing the things he/she does..it helps to remember that something is "off"...something quite serious is not working as it should. Science continues to expand their body of knowledge about the human brain but it is very complex and a multitude of factors can influence it's functioning.

Good for you for cleaning out his stash of candy! Only a few years ago, I cleaned out his bathroom cupboard of shaving lotions and after shave and all that "stuff"....unfortunately, there is still stuff to get rid of!

You are sounding good.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 29, 2020, 01:11:04 PM
xyzcf,
you are so right the brain is very complex.  I remember when my oldest was going through teenage depression i was able to get her assistance immediately.  At that time H told me when he was a teenager he went through what he believes was depression.  But he said you did not talk about it you just "manned up".

Every time i see H's things i do have to turn away.  He went on his annual trip to visit his family so everything except the clothes he took is all where he left it.  On his side of the bathroom, in the closet, garage, tool shed, etc.  Now that i have the added responsibility of yard maintenance i am moving stuff but not too much.  At this point i just say my prayers and wish us all a good life in the years to come.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on July 29, 2020, 01:51:09 PM
I think about the change in personality when someone has a traumatic head injury. That is something we can see physically. Other things are not so apparent.

Many MLCers seem to have high blood pressure and diabetes. These diseases affect small blood vessels..indeed ED issues are often the first sign of something wrong with these small blood vessels and can be a sign of circulatory issues. The blood vessels in the brain are very small and my husband has several health issues so I wonder (being a nurse doesn't help perhaps) if this is what caused these changes in him.

Our house is full of his things although I have been trying to get rid of things. I have a big house so it didn't matter to me and I felt it was his responsibility to clear out his things.

One day, I will move from here so my goal is to get rid of all his stuff ..it's out os sight so I don't have to look at any of it.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 29, 2020, 04:44:11 PM
xyzcf,
you may be right for sure.  Although H is 72 he was not on any meds.  However ED occasionally but i did see him start get what looked like a rash at night and he would have to take benadryl to be able to sleep.

When was your BD? Did your H come through his tunnel?
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on July 29, 2020, 05:09:53 PM
Hold onto your seat 5hilmerton,

BD was July 2009, legally separated Nov 2011....he texted me May 2018 to tell me he was divorcing me.

He's been a clinging boomerang which keep me believing he would return.

11 years later, much therapy later I have let go of my "dream" of being his wife and growing old together and need to find a new dream.

We have one daughter..he has not made her a priority either...we were married 32 years..it was a really wonderful 32 years and perhaps that is why it's been so hard to let go...because there was nothing in those years that gave me any indication that we would not be together for the rest of our lives.

I still miss him every single day, that doesn't change.

I believe that marriage is for life...so I remain in a place, not of my own making and not one that I enjoy....I am 65 years old and hate being alone...and I am very very alone because we moved to the US for his job..and all my family are in Canada...lately, I am considering moving back home.

I do know personally of MLCers who made it back home and who are together and very happy. Those are beautiful stories to read and to know people who are living that .......so it's all really difficult because I believe he is still in his crisis, still running and the "switch" has not been flipped for him to return to our family....a very great loss.  :'(

Hope this doesn't upset you in any way..each story is very different, very individual...I have lived well, travelled, enjoyed many friendships, have my health and my faith in God's plans for my life..somewhat trusting whatever that plan is, although I don't understand why, is what God's plan for me has always been.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on July 29, 2020, 05:31:53 PM
Xyzcf, thank you for sharing i too cannot believe i do not have H by my side after 40 years.  In fact i was just sitting here wondering why???  Sorry you are living alone i too don't want that.  Every time i get a bit careless i think i know what H will do.  I appreciate you and others keep reminding me "no expectations" Your story does not upset me it just opens my eyes to anything is possible one way or another. 

 thank you
5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on August 01, 2020, 04:49:51 PM
So i am in the mood to jot down my feelings....I hope that H is doing what he needs to do to get himself through the tunnel.  In the meantime his family continues to say hello or tell me how beautiful our granddaughter is on Facebook.  H's family has always been kind to me and my children i am just not sure he has said anything to his brothers or sisters or even if they know he is still in home country with them.

I read that there is usually damage control with the families.  H never really talked a lot to them, they all have a different father so i really don't know what he has shared.  His story is not mine to tell so i dont know what they know or if they see any difference in him good or bad.  What i do know is i don't know my husband, i lost my best friend and quite frankly i am lonely.

Although i do have those friends who make u laugh and do not talk about H unless i bring him up, which is seldom.  I have my adult children two who live close and one in Italy.  I cannot distract myself from occasionally waking up and forgetting he is not there.  Don't get me wrong, for me his absence is a blessing since it is clear he does not want to be with me.  Guess it is like Alvin says, there is a silver lining to be found. 
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on August 16, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Getting ready to go outside and beat the triple digit heat.  Sometimes i feel guilty enjoying myself without H.  But the yard work is therapeutic and i just mastered the zero turn.  Well after the first damaged fence of course.

Doing my best to just let the MLC stay in my back pocket and take care of not "Over Analyzing" .  H asked for some help with is bank card since he is in another country.  This is his account but he has given me all of his password etc.  So i went in took care of the issue texted him back, told him to try his card.  He text me thanks and never let me know if it worked or not.  That was the beginning of August so i guess it worked.

This would have bothered me before but now i just move on with my day.  I did find myself checking my watch the other evening thinking H is probably wondering where i am.  Another reality check that he could care less.

Day by Day
5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on August 16, 2020, 08:08:34 AM
Hello,

Quote
Getting ready to go outside and beat the triple digit heat.

I know what you mean. I got up first thing this morning to go and do a couple of outside projects before the heat took over. Now, I have a couple of work projects and I will be done for the day. This has been a restful and relaxing weekend.

Quote
So i went in took care of the issue texted him back, told him to try his card.  He text me thanks and never let me know if it worked or not. 

Typical. Right after my ex left, she would text me for a few items. I would take care of it. Then crickets, not thanks, it worked or it was taken care of, nada. Nothing. Glad that you didn't try to read anything in it. You wrote that he doesn't care and that is true. Right now his only care is about himself and everything else  exists as objects- not people.

Quote
This would have bothered me before but now i just move on with my day.

Moving forward is the best you can do for not only you, but him as well. He can't look back to find you in the same spot you were when he left. That only justifies his actions. "See its the same. It was her fault- she played a part in this." If you are moving forward, this shift the mindset from "This is all about her, to maybe it's me." Think of the "Grinch that Stole Christmas", the who's did nothing to him. They didn't console him or send out invitations to negotiate the return of their gifts. Instead, they moved on. The Grinch didn't see crying miserable Whos. They were still happy and loving. This is what influenced the Grinch to change. To realize the unhappiness he held was from within, not outside of him.

As you move forward and celebrate you, not only will you find yourself in a better place- so will he.

((((Hugs))) and more ((((Hugs)))

Ready

Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on August 16, 2020, 11:00:18 AM
Thank you Ready, just got back in as it is now 100 degrees plus.  I do my best work in the morning.  Around 6ish i grab a glass of wine and go enjoy the pool and admire my hard work.

There was a time i would jump through hoops to make sure H would not be inconvenienced.  When this all started i would check my phone constantly just in case.  Honestly lately i am hoping it's not him.  I feel whatever he says will disrupt my calm.

I read somewhere moving stuff around makes a difference to the MLC'RS.  In the beginning i did not want to move or have anyone touch his precious things.  Now i don't move or touch his stuff for any other reason than it's just in my way. 

I did not choose my life without H but i cannot depend on what's not there for me either.  I cannot make H change so i just put that package in the closet.  It works for now,  thank you for sharing your comments and the ((HUGS)) it reminds me i am not alone.

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on August 26, 2020, 01:14:35 PM
So once again H asks for some help with his stinkin bank card as he is out of the country and little to no connectivity.  As i have said before even though my name is not on his account he gave me his log on info. 

It is hard for me to really help him since i cannot make a call without my name on his account.  But i usually can go in and figure it out.  Before i was so happy to get right on it and make things happen for him. Even though he never demands anything and is always courteous with his ask today i actually said he would have to wait. 

I am preparing for Hurricane Laura and really do not have time to help him. He used to be so concerned about everything that could affect me or our family.  But my new H does not care about anything like he used to.  I hate to say that i don't try to share anything with him because it truly feels like talking to a complete stranger.

So i thought about how i would respond.  I really don't know what to expect. So after a few hours and taking a break from securing items outside i answered his text.  We used to prepare for Hurricanes  together so i know he knows how much work it takes.

So my message to him
Sorry for the delayed response i am preparing for Hurricane Laura.  I will try to help you tomorrow.

H responded: thank you, don't worry about me.  You guys take good care of yourselves. Try to go far from there.

I know he is in a remote area but for sure i would have thought he would have heard about the impending Hurricane. So my take away good..no anger he wished us well...did he really not know and could not reach out to any of the family???

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on August 27, 2020, 02:35:16 AM

I know he is in a remote area but for sure i would have thought he would have heard about the impending Hurricane. So my take away good..no anger he wished us well...did he really not know and could not reach out to any of the family???

5hil

Mid-Lifers have a VERY difficult time adding 2+2 and coming up with 4 so it is entirely possible that he hasn't made the connection between "Hurricane," "family," "danger," and "Preparation"

Of course, it is also possible that the moon is made of green cheese and he is just lost in his fog.....
Title: Father's Day
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on August 27, 2020, 05:21:50 AM
Hello,

Quote
Mid-Lifers have a VERY difficult time adding 2+2 and coming up with 4 so it is entirely possible that he hasn't made the connection between "Hurricane," "family," "danger," and "Preparation"

Of course, it is also possible that the moon is made of green cheese and he is just lost in his fog.....

You could be in Tokyo being chased by Godzilla and receive a text from an MLCer, "Hey, while you are running around, could you stop in and pick me up some Ramon noodles?"

My ex would miss appointments, forget things, and not only was it up to me to sort things out, somehow it was all my fault. It would not surprise me one bit, if an MLCer looked at the TV one day and state, "Trump is president? When did that happen?"

Just be safe from the storm and just get out of the way. I had a friend that decided to ride it out from a hurricane. She stated it was a stupid. No major damage but all the electricity was out for three days, it was hot and humid and no ac, and of course all the stores were closed. She said she would have been one hundred times better off in a hotel miles away and enjoying a drink by the pool.

((((Hugs))))

Ready
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on August 27, 2020, 06:41:55 AM
Ready, thank you for your well wishes...it was a "Godzilla" hit and a miss thank GOD.  We were hit directly with Harvey so we just did not know.  And yes our electricity was out for 2 weeks after Harvey. Now i have to do the daunting task of reaching out to H to offer my assistance.  As a teenager i learned to drive and navigate through the fog with pride. But with the MLC fog it is like hitting a cow you did not see through all of the dense fog.  You just never know what to expect.

  My nerves are on edge as every time i have to communicate with H all the hurt rushes back.  I do my best to keep our conversation crisp and on point.  H really does not make a lot of sense and offers more info than i need or want.  Not really complaining about our past just everything else around him. I try to listen/read and pick out the bits and pieces that can help our relationship but i don't believe either one of us are ready for that.

Ursa, please know your "green" comments truly does remind me of fog.  My favorite to date "tasting green with your elbow".  Funny as much as i would rather not be around him i feel i really do not have a touch on his pulse.

The other side is as long as i stand, light house, be kind and polite i feel i enable his happy time in the fog with his playmates whoever they are.  Where can i get information live or text book about the MLC fog? It's like the song says "Say something I'm giving up on you, Say something". I love this song BTW.

 5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on August 29, 2020, 07:55:44 AM
So i send a text to H and ask him if he still needs help with his ATM card.  I immediately get a response "yes please".  So i text H ok give a few minutes and we will do a three way call with the bank.  In less than 10 or 15 minutes I get the bank international help on the phone and try to call H.  After the 4th time no answer i excuse myself with the bank person and hang up.

I know his core personality would have not tolerated this behavior.  So i text him back within the first 15 mins. +/- .  I tell him i am sorry he was not able to answer the telephone and to let me know if another time is better.

That was my be kind message....but what was going on in my head was an explosion.  That was yesterday still no response to my message.  Which i will say he is responsive when he wants me to do something.  Otherwise H does not communicate with me which gives me no reason to communicate with him really.

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Treasur on August 29, 2020, 08:41:56 AM
Perhaps it is now time to not offer your help again? You tried once....he disrespected your time and effort and the banks surely....or it wasn't that important....why not let him sort it for himself as he is an adult and you are neither his mother or his secretary? Or even actively his wife....by HIS current choice.

Which also might be a more authentic way of respecting that explosive feeling without words, just actions? And allows you to limit communication which isn't to your benefit?
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on August 29, 2020, 01:36:51 PM
Treasur,
you are just that.  I have taken care of him our whole marriage and in hindsight should have shared more of the house hold paper work.  He never wanted to even have an ATM card.  Cuz he knew i always had cash or i would get some for him. He was a quiet deep thinker just don't know him anymore.

You are right, now that he wants to be his own person and has left me to take care of it all i must figure out how to say no.  I know it is still new for me but i am doing things now he wouldn't have wanted to do.  He was a home body and if we were invited somewhere he would tell me to take one of the kids.  He loved our family functions but even then he would go off into our room to get away from all of the noise etc. I guess just like i don't know him i must be my stronger self with him now.

Thank you for your wise words,
5hil
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on August 30, 2020, 12:53:03 AM
Treasur,
you are just that.  I have taken care of him our whole marriage and in hindsight should have shared more of the house hold paper work.  He never wanted to even have an ATM card.  Cuz he knew i always had cash or i would get some for him. He was a quiet deep thinker just don't know him anymore.

You are right, now that he wants to be his own person and has left me to take care of it all i must figure out how to say no.  I know it is still new for me but i am doing things now he wouldn't have wanted to do.  He was a home body and if we were invited somewhere he would tell me to take one of the kids.  He loved our family functions but even then he would go off into our room to get away from all of the noise etc. I guess just like i don't know him i must be my stronger self with him now.

Thank you for your wise words,
5hil
5hil - this sounds so like me and my H.  He allowed me to be the fixer for almost all of the paperwork, household bills etc, he too never wanted to use the joint account ATM cards etc....

He too was not a good guest at parties - I remember him at my 50th retreating to behind the bbq at the bottom of the garden where he could just focus on the technical bits of the music and food etc. 

So I recognise this very well.

Treasur is right and take it from me who 7 years down the road took a long time to learn how much of a fixer I was.  You have to stop, step back and leave him to it.  You can be firm and kind at the same time. You can say no firmly and kindly. You can offer a helpful word of advice but no more.  For example - " how do I change my PIN number"    Your response is " Go to the ATM and follow the instructions"     Rather than " Oh well first you do this and that " or " shall we go together and I will show you how to do it" 

Stepping back means that you can continue to detach and remind yourself he is an adult - he should know how to do this anyway. 
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on August 30, 2020, 07:33:23 AM
Thank you Songanddance,
I know i always tried to do things since english is his second language.  However even my children tell me i should have let H do more for himself. 

Yep always a fixer and partly because in my mind i can do it quicker if i just do it myself.  Thank you for sharing your experiences with your H.  I don't know why i always thought my H was the way he was because english is his second language.  But he would do the same thing even when it was just our kids.

I am always learning something about myself and Mr. 5hil. I guess this is my struggle with being strong and being a doormat.

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on September 01, 2020, 09:50:11 AM
It's September 1 our 41st wedding anniversary is September 29.  This will be the first year we will not be together.  Although last year's was after BD we still forced through it with our kids in Italy. 

 I am not lamenting the fact we will not be together to celebrate.  At this point i do not have a marriage to celebrate.  Just wondering how do others treat these types of days when your spouse is deep in their fog?  At this point my plan is to mirror H.  Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations?
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on September 08, 2020, 11:16:53 AM
Having one of those days where making a piece of toast with peanut butter put me on a funk.  Before BD and when i worked i woke up every morning to toast, jelly and peanut butter wrapped in plastic ready so i could take to work with me.

I hate that these little things bring back the pain i have in my back pocket.  I know H is off doing what he believes is right i just don't like that it is so wrong for me.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 9393roo on September 08, 2020, 03:12:08 PM
Quote
I hate that these little things bring back the pain i have in my back pocket.  I know H is off doing what he believes is right i just don't like that it is so wrong for me.

I am feeling the same way today 5hil.  My 34th wedding anniversary is on Saturday and for the first time in the 4 years I’ve been through MLC,  it feels like my last.  Some days it all hits like a ton of bricks from out of nowhere. You are not alone.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on September 08, 2020, 03:36:12 PM
So nice to hear from you 9393roo, it has just been one of those days.  Our 41st wedding anniversary is on September 29.  The first one i will not be spending with H.

I am so sorry for your pain and i wish you the very best.  4 years is a while, if you are a STANDER i wish that you will not have to be alone for long.  I will think of you on Saturday and keep you in my prayers.

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on September 10, 2020, 05:12:52 AM
Riding out the MLC phenomenon/storm is tough.  I always told my children and my team at work that they must know enough about a subject to be able to ask questions that will help them process to a solution.  My kids would tell me to not use my Engineering mentality on them.  Funny now my son in law will say "why when i ask you a question you must process everything before you will give me an answer?"

As i used to be an Engineering training manager i saw the importance of introducing a subject slowly and that repetition is key.  I saw that once the Engineering team could train others they were good to go.

In the beginning i reached out to this forum knowing nothing, looking to find answers for the quick fix.  I read the responses given that i was/am so grateful for, but in the beginning of this crisis i did not understand their monumental importance. In the beginning and that time the words provided comfort.  As i now see folks post on Facebook hurting terribly i realize i can  provide some knowledgeable input to their questions and concerns.  I go back and re-read the comments, suggestions, advice given and every time i do i get  so much more from the words of wisdom.  I believe i am now reading the comments with a better understanding and learned knowledge.

Thank you to all who have and will respond to my questions and journey.

5hil
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on September 11, 2020, 07:16:35 AM
Quote
Just wondering how do others treat these types of days when your spouse is deep in their fog?  At this point my plan is to mirror H.  Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations?

H and I were never ones to celebrate our Wedding anniversary that much partly because it is also H's birthday. 

We celebrated our 10th and 20th and I was looking forward to the 25th which would include a trip to Florence Italy.  However BD 6 months before that and then nothing, nothing, nothing for 5 years.

The last 2 years though since reconnecting H has wished me well on our anniversary; he doesn't use the words happy anniversary but acknowledges it and in 2018 bought me a little gift.  The first for all of our married life. 

Next week it will be my 32nd anniversary - it may be something or nothing.  The point is; have no expectations and understand that you can overcome those anguished feelings.  The days such as these do get better and you are able to just see them as days and not milestones.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on September 11, 2020, 10:16:15 AM
Thank you Songanddance, i really need to be reminded to have NO expectations.  2019 we were to celebrate our 40th wedding anniversary in Italy and we did.  But unfortunately bd was 4 months before we were to leave.  We spent 6 weeks in Italy with H pretty much ignoring me.  Thank goodness my daughter's and granddaughter live there and i still had a wonderful time.

Odd thing i have noticed quite often BD is close to a wedding anniversary for so many.  We did always celebrate  our wedding anniversary and all other holidays in such a big way with family.  I was really looking forward to our 40 year celebration, we were going to go to Spain, Germany and all over.  Well we did not go to the other countries but i would not have been able to enjoy our time together since he was so distant.  It was clear he was already gone away from me. 

I guess in tandem with the new norm for Covid-19 is the new norm of my new life and no expectations of my old life with H.  I am blessed i have a life to work with.  So many who where affected by the 9/11 would probably see my issues and complaining not significant in comparison.

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on September 11, 2020, 10:25:58 AM
Interesting take on BD occurring close to an anniversary.  Mine was 3 weeks after our 22nd, but the wheels were in motion a couple days after.   Takes a few weeks to secure a lease and get set up to leave.  I recall for those few weeks in between that things seemed off and W was having trouble sleeping.

Ah hindsite,  it was all right in front of me but I was oblivious.

Keep moving and growing,

HD
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on September 30, 2020, 07:08:51 AM
I want to take some time to jot down my thoughts of the day before i go outside and tackle my yard work.  We have a bit of a cold front that has moved in so for the next few days it will be in the double digits and not triple digit.  Funny i spend the summer making sure all plants, trees and lawn are getting adequate water and pretty soon i will be covering and moving plants to protect them from the cold.  I have one poinsettia that is so large i will need to stake it so i can cover it with plastic and not damage it.

Yesterday 9/29 first wedding anniversary in 41 years without H present.  Even though he was present last year it was only in body.  So i guess actually second anniversary without his presence.  I really had no expectations that H would contact me and i wondered if h did how i would respond.  Although he did text me on 9/28 about something completely different with absolutely no recognition of the anniversary.  I did not respond to his text as it really did not need a response.

I still jump with nerves and i unconsciously gasp when i see H has texted me.  I know this because i was sitting by my D who just turned 33 this month when i saw H's text.  I thought i was just making a mental note when my D said "what's wrong?" So in all transparency i told her i just saw a text from her Dad.  "Dad text you?" I said yes and because she did not ask i did not elaborate.  H had just texted her for her birthday so i am happy to hear there is still some communication with their Dad.

Well guess it is time to get to work
5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on October 15, 2020, 08:15:30 AM
Just thinking, my H was WAS a good man, husband and father.  Although he came from an extremely dysfunctional family they all were and are very hard workers.  I still struggle with the fact that after 40 years H can just drop that atomic bomb and boom wash his hands and on his way to his good life.

Yes i still over think and analyze so i am now working to reduce the time wasted on the "what the hell happen" ???? I am working on some ideas for increasing my passive income.  I have been volunteering for my church and local ministry for a few years since Hurricane Harvey.  i have been asked to create an Online Sales for items donated to their donation center.  So while i am exploring and building my own online business i will be creating theirs. 

I am excited at so many levels to challenge myself with doing things for the greater good.  I will use the volunteer activity as an open journal to share my own experiences and learn from creating another non profit platform.

I know how to do things for myself and honestly i probably grew too dependant on my H to do things while i was doing what i chose to do.  Regardless, as i told my daughter and one of my girlfriends yesterday, i had to put on my big girl panties and make my own decisions for the future.  The new year is coming pretty fast as is the need for me to be financially stronger and thriving with the lifestyle i want to have.

Feeling good,
off for a 3 day girl trip and then crashing the glass ceiling through the grey clouds

5hil

Title: Father's Day
Post by: Gypzziroze on October 30, 2020, 04:51:28 PM


There was a time i would jump through hoops to make sure H would not be inconvenienced. 

I read somewhere moving stuff around makes a difference to the MLC'RS.  In the beginning i did not want to move or have anyone touch his precious things.  Now i don't move or touch his stuff for any other reason than it's just in my way. 
Hi there, I'm in the middle of reading your story, and I do have to say thay I am sorry you are in this mess as well. Always nice to meet another like minded analyst 😊 although, our subject matter at this time leaves much to be desired...
I'm extremely curious where you could have read that moving their stuff messes with them...how? I'm still really not sure the type my H is, but so far he is a distant contactor. He literally left everything here...including the colossal mess under our carport...I have been on the fence about moving his stuff or not, simply because he would get annoyed when I would do so before (organized chaos...he knows where stuff is) so I am deeply intrigued on this matter...

About that inconvenience part....a small story on that...
During the years,  I would go to bed later than my H.. when the kids were little I got into the habit of only getting 6 hours of sleep. So now...if I go to bed at 9? 3 a.m. I'm wide awake....so I had to go to bed at a later hour than normal humans... But knowing he was a light sleeper, i would slowly turn the knob and slowly walk in and quietly close the door to get in bed. Well in one of his angry texts to me he complained about me not caring about the things that inconvenienced him. After he vanished, I was on the phone one evening with a friend, and I needed to go into the bedroom for something.. I told them to hold on , and did my quiet thing entering the bedroom. After I closed the door, and turned around, I realized H wasnt there....
Talk about muscle memory.
It hit me then, that I was indeed NOT what he claimed me to be...a person who didn't care about things that inconvenienced him. 🤷🏻‍♀️
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on October 30, 2020, 07:52:29 PM

"I'm extremely curious where you could have read that moving their stuff messes with them...how? I'm still really not sure the type my H is, but so far he is a distant contactor. He literally left everything here...including the colossal mess under our carport...I have been on the fence about moving his stuff or not, simply because he would get annoyed when I would do so before (organized chaos...he knows where stuff is) so I am deeply intrigued on this matter..."

Hi Gypzz,
I really don't know exactly where i read about moving their stuff.  But it is not meant to mess with them.  I believe it is meant to show them we can continue our lives without them. My H is and off contactor and he too left everything as if he was coming right back. In the beginning i did not want to move his stuff because "he was coming back soon" and he really did not like anyone to move his stuff.  But now i move what i need to move since i am now the keeper of the home maintenance.

And yes it was all about making sure he was not inconvenienced or so i thought.

5hil

Title: Father's Day
Post by: Gypzziroze on October 30, 2020, 11:19:37 PM

Hi Gypzz,
I really don't know exactly where i read about moving their stuff.  But it is not meant to mess with them.  I believe it is meant to show them we can continue our lives without them. My H is and off contactor and he too left everything as if he was coming right back. In the beginning i did not want to move his stuff because "he was coming back soon" and he really did not like anyone to move his stuff.  But now i move what i need to move since i am now the keeper of the home maintenance.

And yes it was all about making sure he was not inconvenienced or so i thought.

5hil

Hi, yes...I actually misspoke, I didnt mean the word "messes"....I absolutely do not want to "mess" with him.  I assumed it may be because of the very reason you stated. I am moving his stuff because most of it has been damaged by the weather. He has hoarding tendencies from his mothers side and cannot seem to let anything go. Under the carport has been the bane of my existence for a while with everything piled up. I have one of his best friends, (he knows about mlc now so I can talk with him), over here to help me go through the things that are junk, and things to keep to be put up in the attic for a little better safe keeping. I trust his judgement because I have no idea what half of that stuff is lol
I was going to put it on hold when I read that moving their stuff may have an impact...I didn't know what kind of impact.  Don't you hate when we read so much we can't pinpoint our source of info when asked? 🙋🏻‍♀️ guilty here
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Treasur on October 31, 2020, 12:23:59 AM
Gyp, you may find it helpful to consider two things.

One, that folks in crisis will interpret your behaviour in whatever way suits their emotions and story at a given time. You can't control or influence that....he will think what he thinks. Hence some of the insane, if funny, stories here of marriages ending bc of fat dogs, LBS who didn't stack a dishwasher right or prevented their accountant husband being a world famous racing driver/rock star  ::) Or MLC spouses years later wanting a set of dishes that they left behind along with spouses, kids and pets ::) You cannot fix irrational thinking with logic or mindreading imho. So you do what is best and most necessary for you.

Two, that consequences are not punishment, just part of the natural laws of cause and effect in life. (And most LBS secretly know in our hearts when we are acting to do one rather than the other imho). If someone left the house x months/years ago, for instance, then the reality is that they no longer live there, that their postal address is different, that their toothbrush doesn't live in the jar in the bathroom and the fridge is not stocked with their favourite beer. By their choice. And so the people who do live there may need to use the space differently and things in the house may move around accordingly.....put simply, there is much less or no We. By their choice. It is pretty common for MLC folks to leave a lot of stuff behind when they run and to be reluctant and sometimes outraged that the LBS home/life does not stay exactly the same.....but that is how life works isn't it? Cause and effect.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Gypzziroze on October 31, 2020, 06:57:30 AM

Hence some of the insane, if funny, stories here of marriages ending bc of fat dogs, LBS who didn't stack a dishwasher right or prevented their accountant husband being a world famous racing driver/rock star  ::)
☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽this!

IOr MLC spouses years later wanting a set of dishes that they left behind along with spouses, kids and pets ::) You cannot fix irrational thinking with logic or mindreading imho. So you do what is best and most necessary for you.

No you definently cannot make sense out of nonsense... before I tripped over midlife crisis on the internet, I was agonizing over the reasons he gave... the story above was my aha moment for sure

Two, that consequences are not punishment.....If someone left the house x months/years ago, for instance, then the reality is that they no longer live there... By their choice. It is pretty common for MLC folks to leave a lot of stuff behind when they run and to be reluctant and sometimes outraged that the LBS home/life does not stay exactly the same.....but that is how life works isn't it? Cause and effect.
My thoughts exactly. I started throwing out certain things about a month after BD...things that I knew he wouldnt miss inside the house. The rest is a bit more complicated but still going to happen.  I was extremely curious about the subject matter as I havent come across it before 😁 thanks for your words treasur

Sorry, 5hil... didn't mean to hijack your post! 😬
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on October 31, 2020, 08:26:30 AM
No worries Gypzz,
I have the ultimate respect for the thoughts of others.  I am super grateful for Treasur and all of the other Angels whom swoop down and land as we need them.


5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on October 31, 2020, 08:56:43 AM
I posted at the start of this thread that my H was happy to hear from our children.  My S32 told me it is exhausting to talk to his father.  They always had such a close relationship, my son even asked his father to be his best man at his wedding.  They spent hours talking before and i see my son is trying to keep this same quality of communication. 

My son calls with his new son and tries to engage his Dad. He told me that his Dad does not talk more than hi, bye.  Unfortunately the young man now has doubts about his life long hero.  I guess of all the hurt i have suffered the hurt my children feel is probably the worst.

My middle D33 told me last night that she understands he will talk when he is ready.  She told me that all three of my children do not want to reach out to their father because he does not want to have conversation.  Funny thing is he once told me that he wished his kids would talk to him more.  He said that since they all have their own lives it was just me and him.

Time really does change things quickly.  I see what i thought was my H at least staying in contact with our children in June to hearing how they feel now.  I saw in the beginning of the year h was updating me on his daughter's health frequently and sending Covid articles.  Now contact is infrequent only when he wants something.  It appears we r experiencing H descending into this MLC abyss.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: OffRoad on October 31, 2020, 12:01:11 PM
An MLCers communication with children is a study unto itself. My D was telling me about a terrible event where one of ExH's brothers children had attempted suicide. And ExH made himself the hero of the story by "immediately getting on a plane to take care of"  the youngest child (11).  ExH and his brother are not close. His brothers family have a very close knit support group in their community and plenty of friends who know the youngest son far better than ExH does. There were plenty of people to make sure youngest son was ok. (I did that silly thing where I called to see if there was anything I could do to help or if there was anything they needed. People tell you all kinds of things when you actually care about them)

D bought the story lock, stock, and barrel. That her father was the only person who could do this and he was IMPORTANT.  That was so far from the truth (he was constantly inserting himself was what I was told) and all I could do was listen. D will either figure it out, or she will not.

It's hard to watch our kids having to navigate their MLC parent.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on October 31, 2020, 05:22:50 PM
You got that right OffRoad!!! My H would go years w/o talking to most of his family..6 brothers and 2 sisters and a bajillion aunts, uncles, etc. I am an only child and his family was always so kind to me and our children so i enjoyed staying in contact with them and updating him.  Now he is right in the thick/middle of his family.  I don't reach out other than comments on social media. 

H was always private and stayed pretty detached from the craziness of his family issues.  But now with the unknown alien i am not sure of his family relationship.  He has been there with them for a year now.  After 41 years of marriage i am pretty sure they are questioning the length of his stay.  Not sure how i am now perceived. You are right watching our children navigate their MLC parent is difficult, very well said. As much as i cannot control H and his actions i also cannot control my adult children's feelings.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on November 02, 2020, 06:53:17 AM
So my oldest D39 has told her brother S32 and sister D33 that she needs to tell her Dad how she feels.  I recently posted about the hurt i see with my Adult children.  It appears my oldest has kept quiet long enough.  As i have stated before she is her father's clone and they think very much a like.

Our children are very close and because the oldest D39 lives in Italy they have set up a weekly "kid chat" on the whatsapp.  My D33 told me that my oldest needs to do this for her own healing.  My D33 also told me that she cautioned her sister to not go in with her guns blazing.  My oldest tends to be a bit mouth before thought.  My D33 has felt that effect from her sister and we all see it when her hubby makes her mad.  Regardless she is very intelligent and up until  her Dad left 12/19 she had a good relationship and a tremendous amount of respect for her Dad.

Not sure if this will help either of them or just fall on deaf ears.  Time will tell i keep my entire family in my prayers.  I have asked GOD to guide us all through this patch of thorns.

Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on November 14, 2020, 02:39:42 PM
So today we celebrated my little grandsons 1st birthday.  My grandson swallowed meconium when he was coming into this world.  He was hooked up to every breathing and heart monitors in the NICU for over a month.  My H stayed by his side and held him all connected to the oxygen even when baby was released from the hospital. Baby was born 6 months after bd, h still lived at home at the time.  H he never missed the opportunity to be with his grandson. Even then we all saw the great concern and love H had when holding his first grandson.

Baby is now happy and doing really well and although he is at a higher risk with Covid he is crawling and nothing slows him down.  We celebrated his birthday today at my house and they had our family from Italy and across the states Zoom in to sing and watch baby eat his first cake.  S32, who does stay in contact with his Dad as much as H will allow, tried to connect with his Dad multiple ways but no answer.  I am sorry to see that he missed our grandsons first year celebration.  But this is one more thing that tells me how lost he is.  I truly see this absolutely has nothing to do with me.  But i hate to see while he is off doing whatever makes him feel good that i am losing more respect for him.  In 40 years i never thought he would be able to disconnect from his children regardless what he feels for me.

H was married before me and they had a daughter.  Although it was clear to me there was no love loss between H and his Ex he never stopped speaking to her and he never quit loving or speaking to their daughter.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on November 14, 2020, 02:52:02 PM
Your celebration of your grandson made me smile. Such a huge blessing.

Quote
In 40 years i never thought he would be able to disconnect from his children regardless what he feels for me.

This is the key, this is what causes us so much agony, this is what always proves to me that whatever happened to them isn't about us...it is something that took over the men we knew..the men of honor and integrity....and it makes me weep for our kids and grandchildren who will not have that experience with them.

Throughout the world, family matters ....people are so distressed  that they will not be with their families for the holidays this year, I cannot go to Canada to see my family until enough people have been vaccinated...there is nothing I would not do for our daughter.

He left her too, damaged her too..as healed as I am..this makes me cry for our small family of three..he left it all and I just have to understand that somehow something is so wrong inside of him...because otherwise..I just cannot comprehend why.

All of these times, these precious moments they lose.....and it doesn't seem to bother them...but...I actually think it does and it must be terrible to be in their heads.

We have the blessing and love of our family, this remains, they cannot destroy what we have with our children, our family members.

My husband is an only child, his parents are deceased..he has no one, no one..his choice, his life...I shouldn't feel bad for him...but I do.

Thanks for sharing such a joyful day!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on November 14, 2020, 06:51:32 PM
Xyzcf,
I too am an only child adopted and my parents are both deceased.  I understand the no one, no one.  Up until BD my H and kids were it.  We have been married since i was 17 and he did make my family life more than i thought it could ever be for the 40 years.  I guess that is why i am still scratching my head.

Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on November 15, 2020, 05:33:25 PM
Yesterday i posted that my H did not join the Zoom event my S and family set up to connect family for my grandsons first year celebration.  This morning i received a text from H asking for our S32 cell phone number.  My S told me that his Dad called to say he was sorry for missing the event.  My D33 told me she sent pics and videos to her Dad so maybe it engaged him. 

I just don't know but i thought it was strange that H did not have S's phone number.  I know it is in his contacts even if he forgot. 😯😯 i know over thinking but this will forever be foreign territory to me.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on November 21, 2020, 05:27:37 AM
So as long as i stay busy and move on as if there was a death in my family (H is gone) i pretty much have my husband's MLC on the shelf.  But the holidays and my birthday are coming and that MLC packaged has fallen off of the shelf and knocked me in the head.I

This is the first year without my H since i was 17 in 41 years.  So i would really appreciate some advice from those who have already done this please.  Bd 5/19 H left 12/19, H contacts when he needs something becoming less frequent once a month or so.I

Thank you
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on November 21, 2020, 06:26:13 AM
This is also a really difficult year because COVID restricts many of the activities that can help us "keep busy" and healthy. I really miss the gym classes I went to several times a week. Not just for the physical benefits but also the social interactions with people.

My birthday is also in December and all my family all live in another country. I have to take a plane to visit. But the number one thing I would say is plan ahead and if you are able to be with family or close friends on those days, make plans to do so.

My best friend here, who has since moved, used to come on my birthday in the morning and take me out for breakfast. She would be with me when I would open the gift that my daughter would have sent in the mail..I learned the first year that sitting by myself and opening my card and gift was so painful. So she took on that responsibility.

I also would book a massage, but again, this year that isn't possible.

I didn't have it in me to put up a tree or decorate the first year but by year 2 I got a tree and decorated it. The many decorations brought back memories, but it's ok to feel sad because this is not something we wanted. I have since started a new tradition that when I travel, I look for incredibly beautiful Christmas decorations, for my tree.

Again, in pre COVID, I would have friends over for an evening.

I listen to Christmas music.

I immerse myself in the season of advent with lots of readings and  church activities..again, cannot do that this year.

New Year's eve I am by myself.

Several years, he has joined us for Christmas. Although difficult, that is always what I would prefer, but it's his choice ..he is always welcome to do so.

I buy him a small gift, he buys me one as well....that has continued for 11 years. Not everyone has that kind of contact.

You get through it. So much of our lives have been destroyed that I really don't want the whole Christmas season to be destroyed as well.

A couple of years, I have travelled to a beach destination with my kids and he came with us one year as well. That to me is the best. Instead of buying all kinds of stuff for one another, I take my daughter and son in law away .....and really that has been lovely.

I try and focus on what is really the meaning of these holidays and that helps me to find some joy even when my heart is breaking.

It is really hard.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on November 21, 2020, 07:32:57 AM
Thank you XYZCF, i was hoping for an Angel to give me some advice.  You are right the COVID Pandemic has certainly made this year historic.  My church is taking reservations for Christmas service.  The Covid has taken an uptick her and some stay at home measures are being put into place.

I know i am blessed to have 2 of 3 children and my grand son here in the same town.  My oldest and granddaughter are in Italy everyone is safe and healthy.  I have read a lot of your posts and if i am not mistaken you cannot be with your family.  I wish you continued smiles and happiness on the path you walk.

Thank you for responding to my message i really needed to be touched by an Angel.  I do have my children who are keeping the holidays alive.  Yes they already have plans for my birthday Nov. 28 so i will not be alone. Dinner and a movie at our home, they always over do it. Thanksgiving is my big family day and we spend probably a week cooking.  H would always make homemade bread for every celebration (he is a bread maker).  I guess i am struggling with the traditions that i worked so hard to build and maintain being torn.  But my kids will not allow our traditions be forgotten.  My oldest has taught everyone in Italy how to celebrate Thanksgiving.  Her friends and family there are always asking if they can invite just one more person.

Thank you for sharing and helping me to realize how truly blessed i am.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Treasur on November 21, 2020, 07:39:38 AM
Dear 5, tbh I would encourage you to behave just as you think you might have done if your h had actually died in 2019. Be kind to yourself, feel what you feel and try to find small joys. Give yourself permission to also do nothing or do something tiny  :).....that's a lot of years and a lot of memories and old traditions isn't it? It still seems remarkable to me that these disappearing spouses seem not to mourn that at all, let alone as we do....but it is normal to mourn loss, you know, particularly at these special dates and celebrations. Bc, truthfully, we can't go back or get back those times....only teach ourselves to do things differently.

I think I basically ignored Christmas for a couple of years....but Christmas didn't mind  :) Then I think I gradually started doing low key things....smoked salmon (shared with the cat) and a nice bottle of wine with a movie....then lunch for my uncle and church....this year will be pretty low key but I am sending gifts and cards again which I didn't for a while. Even now tbh I find Christmas doesn't connect with me somehow as it used to do bc it is such a family time to be without Ines family. And the good news is that you are likely not alone in having to find new ways of marking these kind of dates, given the restrictions of these virus times, right?

So, be kind and compassionate with yourself. Let it be as it is. Try small things that lift your spirits, whatever those might be for you. Let others show you love and care.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on November 21, 2020, 08:35:11 AM
5hil, thank you actually for you have given me an idea of what to do for my birthday. I am going to arrange a Zoom meeting with my very best friends..in Florida, Canada and here...family members too. I have engaged my daughter to come up with some creative things that we can do.

Yes, I would have to quarantine for 14 days if I went home to visit..and actually my daughter's building has not allowed any visitors other than the residents in the building since April so I could not even stay with them....Toronto is on a 28 day lockdown starting Monday and Dr. Fauci has stated that until he is vaccinated, he would not fly. Early this fall we talked about the possibility of them coming here or perhaps we could go away somewhere but the reality is..it is not safe to do so.

Fortunately, just before COVID hit, my daughter,SIL (who is an absolute gem) and I had a week together in Antigua. I had planned it the previous fall since I was turning 65 and wanted to do something special. It was a super wonderful week  ;D and we hold onto that..and as soon as we are vaccinated, I shall take them away again. I am blessed to have the resources to be able to do that.

Do whatever feels right for you. That is always what I try to do...listen to that inner voice and do what is going to be the most comfortable for me.

I smile, my daughter has already suggested that we can watch "mass" together on Christmas eve on line...she goes to mass when I am there, and is not actively practicing her religion...but you see the beauty of this? That she would suggest this is a huge blessing to me. God works in mysterious ways!

In the past there have been some threads here discussing the holidays..I must look them up. I know one year I have a thread where I wrote everyday a message of "hope" during this season..perhaps I shall do so again this year..an Advent thread of hope and joy.

We must not give up hope for life is a gift, a beautiful and joyful gift...it took me a long time to figure that out and right now it feels anything but with COVID and the insane political mess....but......in my heart I know that life is still darn special and I don't take things for granted the way I once did.

You will spend the holidays surrounded by your loving family..what will he have?

Thanks for your kind words. Have a good day.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: OffRoad on November 21, 2020, 09:21:17 AM
The first year for me I put up a tree, but had no ability to deal with ornaments, so we decorated the tree with whatever we found around the house. It started a new tradition of the "How odd could we get." tree. That year was the tiki tree. There was the nearly headless St Nicholas tree (flat on top), the Utensil tree, and last year was Harry Potter themed again. This year we are going for Raiders of the Lost ark with a Staff of Ra headpiece on the top. Since it's not what we traditionally had, it makes it easier for me. New memories, I suppose.

This will be my first Christmas completely alone. For the past 4 years, my kids and family were here, but my mother passed away last year, my sister made other plans and my kids will be going to their father's house for Christmas. It's going to be strange.

It's ok if you end up feeling sad or crying and ok if you don't.  This isn't the way you thought things would be. You and your children can create new traditions as you move forward.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on November 21, 2020, 06:51:05 PM
Thank you,  Treasur, xyzcf and OffRoad, your expert advise always helps everyone.  At times i share your words with others who are hurting so much.

Thank you for making me smile while sharing salmon the the cat and a nice bottle of wine is always good.

Mass is very important to me but i will probably watch it on TV this year.

Raiders of the lost ark sounds like a lot of fun.

Yes i know i will get through this holiday but i will say each of you have given me ways to alter my course and do it without H and still enjoy.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on November 28, 2020, 06:31:16 PM
So i have made it through my first Wedding Anniversary in September, Thanksgiving and my birthday.  I did not expect H to contact me and he did not.  H did not contact our adult children either.  I really wonder while MLC'RS are going through their crisis why do some disconnect from their children and some do not?  I also wonder why the LBS in my case is invisible? 

I wonder why some are vanishers, distant contactors and others are clinging?  I know i do not know the outcome of my H's journey but the dang process engineer in me questions all.
I was chatting with a friend about being so sensitive with all communication.  Don't pursue, don't initiate conversation,  no relationship talk, be kind and shine the beacon light.  All of which i am very capable of doing and am currently using this approach.  But what i really wonder is not so much about reconciliation it's about when H will see his children as his loved ones and me as a human being and not an enemy.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Treasur on November 28, 2020, 11:07:13 PM
Hip, hip, hoorah for you....those firsts are tough  :)

I too had a pretty much vanisher and I don't know why some do that while others boomerang. (RCR's articles might?) what I do know is that it is entirely a function of what is in their own heads. And that, with a little more time, the why will matter less to you than the what. And that your attitude to communication will shift from trying to anticipate his needs/behaviours and towards doing what is best for what you need and what works for you. Or not. Fwiw, sad as it is, I hope you can see that his lack of contact with your adult kids is a useful objective reminder that this is not about you or your marriage.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on December 02, 2020, 07:24:13 AM
Great questions!

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I really wonder while MLC'RS are going through their crisis why do some disconnect from their children and some do not?


I actually cannot think of any MLCers that have been described here that do not disconnect with their children. Perhaps some maintain a "superficial" contact but so many of them leave the as well. ( my husband has a weekly Sunday phone call with his daughter which she finds very artificial. He lived in several countries over the last 11years, and has never invited her to visit him! )

One explanation could be that they "go back" in their minds to a time before they were married, a time before they had children. They don't want any responsibility..they want total freedom to do whatever they please.

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I also wonder why the LBS in my case is invisible?

Did you mean LBS? We may seem invisible because once again, they discard everything that was once their life...searching for a different way to live that will satisfy whatever they feel will sooth the wound that they are suffering from.

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I wonder why some are vanishers, distant contactors and others are clinging?


It's hard to predict what type a MLCer will. Because my husband has lived all over the world, it would have been easy for him to be a vanisher but he remains in contact. I don't really see the term "clinging" but wonder if by staying in contact he can be seen "as the good guy" so he can tell his employees who are also the only friends he seems to have that "xyzcf and I are good, I saw her (fill in the date)"....I know he needs to be seen as "the good guy".

The human mind is complex...another explanation for some is that they are like a small child getting on a school bus who keeps looking back to see if "mommy" is still there.

We are the glue that holds the family together. They have discarded their families but we still exist...for some, it is important to remain connected, however small.

I do believe that even vanishers do not forget us.

 
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Don't pursue, don't initiate conversation,  no relationship talk, be kind and shine the beacon light.

URGHHHHH!!!!! This drives me crazy.  We can see one another and have a lovely time, truly.....yet I know that so many topics are taboo..it is not normal or natural but there is no point in setting myself up for "disappointment". Maybe someday I will be able to sense a shift in him that would allow me to approach him...that someday is still not yet.

 
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when H will see his children as his loved ones and me as a human being and not an enemy.

Again, what I have observed is that they do start to connect with their kids, sometimes it takes many years, sometimes the kids refuse. As they work through their crisis, as the fog lifts a bit, they may start to miss having some connection to their "family". Depends also on if they are in another relationship or perhaps have married and have other "kids" that they are "parenting".

I do see them reaching out to their children, especially around the holidays.

Each of us have to decide what we can tolerate..a balance between our own peace and in my case, the triggers than can occur when I see him. Dropping any expectations that I once had as to what would be "normal" is easier said than done.

The questions are always there.....and there are not any sure answers. Some MLCers who have returned are able to answer some of these questions...while others cannot seem to remember much of what happened during their crisis.

Like you perhaps, I was constantly trying to figure out why? His lack of contact with our only child broke my heart for both of them. It's better now between them and they both need that.

I just read this on the "Script sentences and WTF" that describes their state of mind quite well:

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During a telephone conversation about the children -

Me - it sounds like I am talking to a stranger.

Him - I am a stranger to you now - you do not know me. I do not know you.

Me - Sigh.

He had been gone 14 days.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Anon on December 02, 2020, 09:17:42 AM



Quote
I really wonder while MLC'RS are going through their crisis why do some disconnect from their children and some do not? 
Quote
I actually cannot think of any MLCers that have been described here that do not disconnect with their children.
My MLC h did not disconnect from his adult kids at all.  If anything, his contact with them increased.  His daughter was especially bombarded with calls and demands for her and her family to meet the ow - this within 4 months of BD and he and ow continue to visit them whenever she is in town.    Same with his son who lives out of town,,,he and his family met ow for the first time when they visited and stayed for 2 nights.  They also continue to visit whenever she is here. 

Even tho my h ticks the majority of MLC boxes, I’ve wondered from time to time if it’s even a MLC he’s having.  This ongoing strong connection with his kids AND his friends from pre BD is not what you would expect if it’s truly a MLC. 

Why is my h different from the norm?  I’m not sure but I know the ow pressured him early on to introduce her to his kids.  They resisted for the first year then agreed after the pressure from him got too much.  My h had met her entire family, kids, grandkids, siblings and he wanted to reciprocate?   To show he also had a beautiful kids and grandkids?   Ow family was told and still believes that he was a free and divorced man long before BD.   He has frequent family dinners with them.   I wonder if they wondered why ow had not yet met his family which could have led ow to pressure her married man to introduce his family to her.  jmo

 

Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on December 02, 2020, 09:36:55 AM
Thanks Anon...actually I think there are some kids who turn away from the LBS parent and embrace the OP....I just wasn't able to think of any off hand.

So as you can see, although there are similarities, there are also many differences.

Divorce is so "acceptable" it seems... I remember my daughter saying that almost all her friend's parents were divorced.



Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on December 08, 2020, 08:10:01 PM
So as i keep saying "first holidays in 41 years without H" i am pretty proud of myself put the tree  and outside lights up.  Inside of the house is looking quite cheerful.  I have started my Christmas baking and sending pics. to my D39 in Italy.  We always share holiday and celebration pics. with all of the family.

I must say there is no doubt in my mind that GOD is guiding me through this.  My middle D33 has lost her job due to Covid and has recently ended a 6 year relationship with her boyfriend.  She misses her Dad and the way it was and now more than ever she is determined to stick to our family traditions.  I am so blessed we have each other during these times.

As a family we are always together for the holidays regardless of where everyone lives.  2020 has had a lot of life altering challenges for us and as with many is not allowing our family to be together  I am impressed in spite of Covid, MLC, job losses, border closures, how strong we really are and how we have circled the wagons and are hunkering down.  I never expected the obstacles and challenges 2020 has brought to us but i am very proud we are so family strong.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on December 11, 2020, 03:50:38 PM
So my Hs family contacted me to my H know that his baby brother was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.  They have given him 8 months to a year.  His daughter contacted me to let H know.  I told her he was still in their country and that i am sure one of his other brother will let him know.

I would normally reach out and offer my support but at this point i don't want to reach out to him and open up wounds that i am trying to heal.


Guess i will need to see how it will play out.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on December 12, 2020, 06:15:19 AM
These are the times that are so difficult. We would normally turn to one another, give one another support when we receive bad news.

And it's so hard not to reach out to them.

You alone can decide what is best regarding contact with him, for your healing. What feels right, although contact or not, he will probably be on your mind "more" as you contemplate this latest news about his brother.

I sometimes wish that I could erase any new "memories" since BD of him.....but that doesn't seem to be the case. What happens to him still has some impact on me.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on December 12, 2020, 10:20:19 AM
XYZCF thank you for being out there Absolutely has an impact on me.  In the beginning i would look for reasons to reach out to him and i know i was going to immediately do that last night too. 

My D33 told me she thought i should let him know.  But i did not i just shared the news with my children.  My S32 said, "wow i got to make sure Dad knows".  We have wonderful and thoughtful children.  I am glad i no longer had to sort that one out.

I often struggle with and forget how this is affecting my adult children.  I will say this put a crack in my calm and has those feeling of unease rumbling.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on December 16, 2020, 05:57:27 AM
Hello,

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I often struggle with and forget how this is affecting my adult children.  I will say this put a crack in my calm and has those feeling of unease rumbling.

There has been a lot of unease in your many years together. Many moves and always having to adjust to a new life. On top of a tremendous tragedy that made me cry. During this time, your h has been the rock. Always the pillar and force that everyone looked up to.

I had a good friend who was married to a wonderful man who was a pilot. He died in a plane crash a few years back. My friend grieved and recovered and moved on. A few years later, her son dealt with depression and issues. She realized that all this time, he was being her rock that he never took the time to properly grieve and was doing it then.

Your H goes and visits his oldest daughter. He still maintains some contact with your children but isn't close like he used to be. He has mostly cut you out of the picture, but really has cut all of you out. If this started with visiting the oldest daughter for weeks at a time, why was he staying there and why didn't he bring you?

Also, that comment he mad about his nephew not visiting him and he was angry. You gave a reasonable response about your nephew's work hours and his response about this is why he can't talk to you. What was he seeking? What answer did he want? I think he wanted to hear, "Your right, you should feel angry that he didn't take the time to visit you."

I do believe that your h has stored a lot of anger over the years and more than being angry, he wants to be justified in his anger.

As far as his brother goes, I don't know the relationship between the two. I think the news coming from his son is better than you. The next question is how will you respond if he asks you, "Why didn't you tell me first?".

My response would be, "Our son felt it would be better coming from him because he loves you so much and wanted to be there for you first." Of course, you know your H better, but it is always best to think of a response now than be caught up in the drama later.

Yes, MLC makes everything so complicated,

(((((Ready)))))

Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on December 16, 2020, 07:33:33 AM
Thank you Ready for your words of wisdom.. You are right i spent more time trying to keep piece in the family then validating my husband's comments.  I know i can't change the past and i will be a better person moving forward.  It's a hell of a way to learn life's lessons.

I always encouraged my H to go visit his daughter without me.  I did this for a couple of reasons, this would give him time with his daughter and he would not have to worry about making sure i was entertained.  I knew he would be around his Ex and her family and i never wanted to add conflict.  Since H is from another country and that is where his daughter is to me it made sense after he retired and i was still working for him to spend extra time there every year.

I know H has been our pillar and has now chosen this time to enjoy, figure out or whatever... I can only hurt by both of our actions, but i am not truly angry.  Going forward i just want to not say things or react in the wrong way making things worse. Such is life in Corporate America work damn hard thinking you are doing it for the family and all along you have a crack that you don't realize needs your attention.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on January 01, 2021, 11:28:26 AM
So i struggle with reach out or not???  Bd  5/19 H left on 12/19 married 41 years.  It has been one year now since i have seen him.  In the time he has been gone i have only reached out to him a couple of times regarding taxes and financial.  I think about H but i don't pine over him i do miss him at times.

No contact from H unless he wants something maybe once a month.  Our children reach out to him but he does not always respond back.  However for New Year's H reached out to our children.  I was already thinking about starting the New Year with a simple Happy New Year.  This morning i sent H a quick Happy New Year.  H responded back in about 20 minutes with a quick basic "Happy New Year to you too,  Thank you".  I don't know if this is the right thing or to just wait to see if it will ever come from him.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on January 01, 2021, 12:17:42 PM
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I don't know if this is the right thing or to just wait to see if it will ever come from him.

Don't worry if it is the right thing or not. OK?

You can wish him a Happy New Year. It's hard to do this and not expect to be reciprocated and may cause increased anxiety when you do this...but you can learn to be able to make a normal greeting to the man you spent 41 years with and not to have it cause you a great deal of pain.

I personally respond to his contact and contact as well. I don't regret it even though it has not changed anything. Many years later, he's living a very different life than what we once held to be important.

So, you decide. They take away so much from us but we are the normal one and normal people wish family and friends wishes on special occasions.

My husband certainly has some feelings towards me, I know that to be true. You did not put any pressure on him by your message and I think we must stop feeling that we should or should not do something...if it feels right to you, then be true to what feels right.

If you are done with him and any chance of some kind of relationship in the future, you may feel that you're better not to contact unless it is an emergency.

And as my therapist told me, I get to choose if I contact or not and that can change from one day to the next.

I hope this is a better year for you and everyone on HS.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on January 01, 2021, 12:50:31 PM
Xyzcf, thank you!!!  For sure i over think my moves with H and how it will affect him/us.  I go along doing pretty well and then i think.... "well if you don't reach out how will he know you are still standing"?  But as always i am notorious for the over thinking. 

Funny you said "Don't worry if it is the right thing or not"  I guess i will know when it's "NOT".

Thank you dear Angel i needed that kick in the head.  Happy New Year to you!!!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on January 01, 2021, 01:30:57 PM
Quote
"well if you don't reach out how will he know you are still standing"?

Certainly a question that many of us have asked.

And then the sage advise " remember this is not about you and not about your marriage". So standing or not standing isn't going to change their crisis.

I do not believe that there is anything you can do to speed up the process.

I know, standing would seem to make it easier for them if they wanted to return but I don't think that is the case..because there is so much about this we have no knowledge of. What is wrong inside of them? That they act in such a similar way? What feelings will they have if they resolve the issues that sent them into crisis about the damage they have done?

We give them no cause to be so cold towards us, yet they cannot, while in crisis and sometimes even after, have any kind of real conversation with us...at least with my husband...he never expresses a word about his thoughts or feelings.

Trying to understand them is as Ursa says like trying to explain what green tastes like.  :D

If they could leave the way they did, without warning, without reason, without explanation..then perhaps they can return as well....another sage saying "ultimately it will be the LBS who decides"..yes, some would never wish to have their spouse back in the lives again...but it will be up to the MLCer to take those steps back towards home...we have little if nothing to do with that.

In some ways, and perhaps I am too much of a romantic but we knew one another on a level that I have never known another. We could finish one another's sentences and many here have said the same. Sometimes when I crash, for notapparent reason, I wonder if I am responding to his turmoil somehow.

They know us 5hilmerton, as we knew them, we do not know this MLC version, and they can run as far away and as long as they wish...but they will still know who we are. It's a mystery that I cannot explain as is the mystery of why I still love this man.

You are not overthinking IMHO, you have questions that have never been answered and concerns about someone you loved for a very long time, someone who is unrecognizable and that is problematic for us...because fortunately, we are not the ones having a crisis.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: OffRoad on January 01, 2021, 01:54:29 PM
As always, you must do what it right for you. If reaching out is who you are, be that person. Imo, so many times we dont say or do something, positive or negative, for fear of doing something our mlcer "won't like". Really, that is not a very good way to live.

I also believe we know our mlcers well and they know us. Too well, for the mlcers taste in some instances. If they don't like who they were and are trying to be something different (as in my xh's case), when he looks at me he knows I know when he is pretending and when it is the real him. That does not fit with the "perfect" image he wants to project. No one can be perfect all the time, nor do they need to be. But my mlcer cannot manage unless his imperfections are glossed over and he doesn't have to address his own trespasses against others (any others, not just me).

One year I tried to give my xh his Christmas stocking. He sent it back saying it needed to stay with the other stockings. This year he wondered why he didn't have it. I, of course, sent it to him. It's who I am. But I don't contact him unless I have no choice. That also works for me. Polite when required, don't think on it when it's not.

Be you. Place no importance on whether he responds or not. Do what is right for you.

Happy New Year!

Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on January 01, 2021, 05:46:55 PM
Thank you xyzcf and OffRoad for your exquisite wisdom.  Funny i thought i knew my H like no one else.  His family always told me that i was perfect for him.  I think because he always wanted to be with me and our children.

But now i don't know him at all so i really don't know how to approach the person he is.  He is the exact opposite of who he was and as much as i try to be graceful with my communication i truly do not know if i am doing it for me or for him.  I don't know if i am reaching out to stay in contact or if i am going through the motions to make sure i don't miss or forget something in this not so defined process.  So to be myself is quite hard because up until 5/19 i knew i was loved regardless of my flaws. Myself was simple, hard working, with a family who respected my H as the DON of the family.  Now i am doing it on my own not always sure what's next. 
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Songanddance on January 02, 2021, 06:48:32 AM
The point is - if it is authentic to you then sending an innocuous message such as Happy New Year is fine.

Would you send such messages to others and expect little by way of return other than a happy new year response - probably.

So don't over think it.

It was right for you and he replied.  That's fine

It was right for you and he didn't reply that's also fine.  You do what feels authentic and right for you when you are fully detached enough.

The challenge arises when you send such a message expecting a response or reading too much into how quickly he sent his response or did he put an emoji or kiss symbol etc..... That's when you're not detached.

You did fine 5 - you are doing fine.  Chalk it down to a positive moment and move on with your day.

Happy New Year x
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on January 02, 2021, 07:23:00 AM
Thank you Songanddance,
I am so much better today and I am so grateful for all of you.  Having all of you is like having my own safe place to run when i am rattled and confused.  It's like when you are a little kid looking for that place to find reassurance and that no matter what you did you will be ok with a bit of guidance and direction.

Thank you all for listening and being MY "Safe Harbour" while navigating this storm.

Happy New Year!!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on January 10, 2021, 04:48:23 PM
I am journaling today....after what happen here in our US Capitol it left me with my mouth open. So much going on with Covid and our MLC'rs i spend much more time with my bible looking for my calm.  Tuesday of his his week i decided to lift something that really was a two person job.  Well that cost me, i am now recovering from an extremely inflamed sciatica.  So now i am from bed to chair and today i as first day i could walk outside of my bedroom to the kitchen and and back with a walking stick. 

I feel like our president who could not leave good enough alone and had to push until all crashed.  Damn my hard head who thinks i can do this all by myself.  H is off doing what he is doing and i am not willing to hurt more than i have to by peeking into his current play land.  So i will do what i have to do to maintain our home inside and out.  But my stinkin pride gets in my way and now i will be not able to do yard work or much else for a few weeks. All because i am stubborn, won't ask for help and i believe deep down i am trying to prove to H i can do this without him.
Title: Re: Father's Day
Post by: Ready2Transform on January 10, 2021, 09:12:13 PM
Oh no, 5hilmerton! My father had a horrible case of sciatica once. That's the first thing I ever saw really take him out! I remember he was in physical therapy with it for awhile, and stretching exercises were an important part of it. I hope yours heals quickly!

If it's any consolation, many of us have had similar instances of biting off more than we could chew in order to prove we could do this without them. It took me a long time and some bruises here and there to learn my limitations (and get a good 'speed dial' list of helpers when necessary). Don't beat yourself up - you're gonna do this, it's going to be okay, and you won't have to push yourself to superhero levels to handle this without him. But we all have "learning experiences" along the way. Hugs!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on January 11, 2021, 08:19:22 AM
Thank u Ready2Transform for your kind and encouraging words.  I really don't like to sit around and do nothing when i know there is so much to do.  It also causes me to think those thoughts of "what ifs".

Before BD I could never imagine taking time to write my thoughts on a forum.  Now i don't know what i would do without this forum.  Reading others stories and the advice given is a godsend.  Being able to share my true thoughts is a release from heaven in my eyes.  Sharing my thoughts and ideas truly lifts the burdens....

You are right exercising, time and patience is what it takes to recover.  Time i have, exercise i can do, patience not so much.  Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts.

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on February 22, 2021, 08:02:29 AM
At what point can i test the water to see if H can handle a conversation regarding common family, household, financial topics?  I have withheld all of these types of conversation and am now feeling like i need to share.  We have had numerous, household expenses including a new roof, a suicide, a death from covid, severe weather and the severe weather damage afterwards. My Adult children are dealing with their own issues with their Dad's actions.  I am truly feeling like that person running under a heard of mustangs and cannot find an exit.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on February 22, 2021, 09:04:02 AM
THAT is "just business." Keep it as a business discussion and don't stray into R or "You owe me" territory.... That isn't anything about keeping things "safe." Those issues are essential and are also part of the consequences one has when one is an adult...
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on February 22, 2021, 09:07:24 AM
Thank you Ursa,
I really needed to hear that!!!

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on February 23, 2021, 06:37:10 AM
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At what point can i test the water to see if H can handle a conversation regarding common family, household, financial topics?  I have withheld all of these types of conversation and am now feeling like i need to share.

iI is hard for me to sit here and have an answer for you. For every situation is different. Based on my own experience, my husband wants to be "free" of any of these "responsibilities". These are not his concerns anymore. I would not even ask him to change a light bulb.

Having said that, if you want to mention any of these things to your husband, do so. But he may not respond as  you would like him to.

My mother died, 4 months after BD. Initially he was not going to come to the funeral because of his business responsibilities overseas. He flew 16 hours to attend her service, stayed a total of 36 hours and left. Only once, about 2 weeks later he asked me "how are you doing about that?".

They are in a crisis, everything that was once important to them no longer matters, we don't matter, their kids don't matter..they would deny this but their limited interactions with their kids speak loudly.

Please let us know if you do talk to him about these things and what his response is, I would be interested.

As for the household repairs, I would suggest that you arrange to have them repaired as you see necessary. My husband took care of all that prior to BD. I had to learn a great deal about managing a house on my own.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on February 24, 2021, 04:29:17 PM
Hi there xyzcf,
what i can say is yep, yep, yep and yep.  I choose not to involve him in anything after our conversation about needing a new roof after a hurricane.  His answer "who's going to pay for that". I responded with how much insurance would cover and how much our out of pocket would be and there was no response or mention of it again.

My oldest decided to tell her D what has been going on over the last year. H called and i let it go to voice mail. In a few hours i listened to the VM and H was quite bright and pleasant. He told me that our oldest had told him i hurt my leg and that he would call me back. I did not know my oldest had messaged H about other family issues.  I thought it was only about my physical being.  So i messaged him and told him everything was fine.  After that he messaged our oldest and called her a liar.  The story is much bigger but that is the basic background for my question.

So after my D unloading her hurt and anger on me i decided to send another text to H in which i said:
Our D did not lie to you, you should know our children better than that.  Our children have a high regard for the truth and much valor.
Our D says you are a large part of our family and i should be sharing our family business so with that said; yes i did hurt my leg and am waiting for an mri, yes we did have damage due to the artic snow event, our daughter in laws baby brother committed suicide and your cousins husband died of Covid last month and we just put to sleep our dog of 14 years due to her cancer.

I could not keep it any simpler and i received no response.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: Evermore on February 24, 2021, 05:11:10 PM
Hello 5hil

I completely understand how hard it is to know how to correspond with our MLCers when they are 'so far away' and so disconnected. Screaming from your text is the real message I'm sure you wanted to convey: 'All this BIG BIG stuff happened to our family AND YOU WEREN'T THERE'. I so get that feeling.

All those things that happened to your family really were BIG BIG things and you absolutely have the right to have expected your life partner and father of your children to have been around to help his family get through those big life events.

As a much smaller example, I had our dog at the vets yesterday to have a very suspicious lump removed. He now has many stitches on his belly (up one side of his willy and round the end poor fella) and we wait to hear back what the lump is and what his prognosis is. My old H would have been right with us worrying about the results. If I told current MLC H about the situation, on the surface he would appear caring and supportive. But it's very obvious (from past experience with sharing other BIG things with him) that it doesn't really sink in. He's just too disconnected and too much in his 'new-life bubble'. I'm so very sorry that you've had to go through all that without your H's support. Big hugs and hope your MRI gives OK news. 
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on February 24, 2021, 05:28:45 PM
Thank you Evermore,
I know i did a bit of knee jerking on my response.  But i certainly felt a sense of relief afterwards.  It takes a lot to get my blood boiling but life events and the effects on myself and those who ARE around me caused my steam to release. Wishing the very best results for your fur baby.

5hil

Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on February 25, 2021, 01:21:32 AM
You were MUCH calmer in your message to AWOLH than I would have been.... I was reading your reply and of 2 minds.

The slap-back about D not lying to him was well-deserved and perfectly appropriate in my view  as was the VERY terse level of detail that you gave him. That was  a perfect example of "respond, don't react."

The fact that he hasn't responded at all tells me that the truth bomb hit the target perfectly (that was WAY more than a truth dart! more like:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/uBcJXf8yuHqAo/giphy.gif)
and he is escaping and avoiding...

On the other side, he gave up his rights to know these things when he walked out the door... and the information about HIS cousin is really HIS responsibility - he is clearly not in contact with his family (typical Mid-Lifer) but they are in contact with you (tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about where the real problems are, doesn't it?). It was kind of you to pass on that information but really, if he wants to have information about his relatives, he should be the one in contact.

Quote from: Evermore
All those things that happened to your family really were BIG BIG things and you absolutely have the right to have expected your life partner and father of your children to have been around to help his family get through those big life events.
Evermore is absolutely correct here... the "problem" is that the person formerly known as "your life partner and father of your children" has left the freaking building and an alien Body Snatcher has taken its place
(https://media.giphy.com/media/UGba4CcQG8T9m/giphy.gif)

Blowing off a bit of steam appropriately in his general direction was well and truly called for.... as was the 2x4 about the kids having high regard for the truth...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/laUY2MuoktHPy/giphy.gif)
Title: Father's Day
Post by: OffRoad on February 25, 2021, 08:07:35 AM
I'm sorry all that happened, though you handied it like a champ. Just the facts, ma'am.

And it all points back to your MLCER behaves like a total jerk. It's going to come to pass that your D might mention something going on in your life, and you not confirming that exact thing in the exact way she mentioned it does not make her, nor you,  a liar.  How many times does someone ask how we are and we say "Fine", when we are really not? Because really, the response "None of your business" has that rude connotation, even though it is not any of someone's business.

Context actually mattered within your question, though You weren't just randomly telling him those things.  ;D
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on February 25, 2021, 10:30:49 AM
Ursa,
thank you for comments and words of wisdom.  Your quick pics/gifs make me smile at your interpretation of these MLC events.

OffRoad,
honestly i am used to doing what i have to do.  I just got back in from outside using my walker and cleaning dead plants left from the freeze.  I figure if after the MRI they determine i will need surgery to help the pinched nerve than i will be unable to be outside for about 6 weeks.

All in all i will always love the person H was but i am trying to mitigate collateral damage to our family from the person he is.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on March 22, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
I was just so TIRED so I picked up and left!  I found one more leak caused by the Artic Snow Event here in Texas.  Nope not just a small leak, evidently it had been spraying like a fountain inside the wall.  So after sheetrock removal, pipe removal and repair, spraying for mold I left that very same day.

My D33 lost her job due to Covid, broke up with her bf of 6 years and is going back to school in April.  So on 3/7 we decided to take our two dogs and go on a road trip.  Our goal was California to visit my Son and my Mom who are with our Father in Heaven.

I left it all behind and had no plans other than seeing my S and Mom.  We just got in the car and drove until we were tired.  We just got back, it was the best two weeks i have had in a while. Yep the sheetrock still needs repair and the plants still need cutting back.  But i am refreshed and ready to start up again after i sleep for a few days.



Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 23, 2021, 10:10:11 AM
Sounds just like what Dr. Bear ordered!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on March 23, 2021, 10:38:04 AM
UM, it so was!!!

Just got back from reviewing with Doc. the MRI results.  Nothing catastrophic that will need immediate surgery.  So with time and physical therapy i should have my yard cleaned up and beautiful soon.  Oh yea and the sheetrock repairs completed.  😊 That should keep me distracted and out of trouble for a while.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: FaithWalker on March 24, 2021, 08:46:25 PM
I'm glad you got that time away!
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on April 06, 2021, 07:00:50 AM
Today my H's baby brother lost his battle with cancer.  I did not hear it from H i was contacted by his family. As a rule i don't contact H and when i do i over think when and how.  This morning  i wanted to send my condolences just a quick message done and done. It came very natural and i am not left with that normal heavy ball in my chest. I ended the message with "i am always thinking of you" I have not been able to say that or anything endearing since BD.  I am sad for the entire family and i hope H can/will reach out and stand by his family during this very sad time.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on April 06, 2021, 11:49:57 AM
I am happy to say H found his way to his brothers side.  I also received a kind thank you message and H asked for prayers for his brother to rest in peace. He told me to tell everyone hello.  He usually says "i expect everyone is ok".

My greatest prayer, wish, hope was that he would find his way to his blood family.  I really believe my prayers were answered, I will take this as a win
Title: Father's Day
Post by: FaithWalker on April 10, 2021, 07:30:37 AM
So sorry about the loss of H's brother.  Were you close with him as well?
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on April 10, 2021, 07:53:37 AM
FaithW thank you for you kind words. Funny thing is it was/is very easy to be close to my H's family.  They are kind people with typical family issues and squabbles.  My H chose to stay a bit removed from them.  But he is the oldest so they always came/come to him with their issues and for money.

With that said H's baby bro was a bit of a womanizer and would let his children down.  That one thing is what kept me not in his ball park.  However he did have a good heart. 💕💖💕

5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on April 23, 2021, 08:12:45 PM
Next month will be two years since BD. H will have been physically gone 17 months.  I continue to plod along keeping myself busy.  I had a spinal nerve block and for the first time in 40 years my H was not sitting there by my side in the hospital room.  I just remember looking at the empty chair.  It was for only a few minutes and then my D33 came and sat down.

I am still working to recover the damage to the house and plants from the Texas Artic Event.  Still need to replace sheetrock and i think i lost both of my orange trees.  But i keep having my own physical set backs.  Last week i was recovering a ball and got my fingers too close to the lawn mower blades.  Not a pretty site and after nine hour in the hospital i believe i was super lucky.  But man fingers really do bleed a lot.  No real reason to let H know even though my oldest thinks i should tell him everything. 

With my fingers bandaged up and metal braces to protect them I got out yesterday and back on the horse that bucked me off (the lawn mower).  I cut the back yard which is about a half an acre. I was afraid that if i did not get on as soon as possible the trauma might keep me from getting back on. With H gone i do what he did and what i cannot afford to pay someone to do.  It keeps me distracted and gives my time to just be on my own.

All in all i am pretty ok with being without H.  I wish i did not have to be doing this alone but i am the coward of the town and don't want him here if he does not want to be here.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: xyzcf on April 24, 2021, 06:23:02 AM
I am sorry to hear about your accident with your lawnmower and fingers. Not only do they bleed a lot but that must be very painful as well.

The first time I tried to cut the grass (I had never done so before) I couldn't get the mower started. I was so frustrated. I asked my neighbor, he unscrewed the gas tank and looked at me, "xyzcf, there isn't any gas in the mower".....Over time, I learned to do many things I never had done before. I stayed in our house and I really like it here. The only downside for me is that my daughter lives in Canada and due to COVID I have not seen her for 14 months.

They were with us, in good, when we were sick, sharing in our lives. It's hard to adjust to this. I often will feel the sadness, I accept that things will still cause me to feel sad and then that passes.

When I am engaged in my life, the one I have built, it's ok really. Things with the house, I wish I could ask him about things for he understood stuff like that, and anyway, major stuff (my house was shifting due to the type of soil we have here and it was a major expense to remedy)...I just wish it was like it once was...you'd talk about this and other things..it was so normal.

There are all kinds of alternative ways to deal with stuff like that, the internet helps me to figure out stuff, I have a brother and friends to talk to but it is not the same.

Please take really good care of yourself. You have expressed your feelings really well and we understand. I really believe in being able to get out how we feel about all this..there is no right or no wrong for we are each different.

Sometimes we get "weary" and it's difficult to make sure that we step away and rest. Like you, I try and keep busy and occupied as much as possible. Besides as you know, owning a house and property alone is a great deal of work and responsibility.

I just read back and saw that you have also lost your brother in law. I am so sorry. That is a further stress for you. There are so many things that affect us at the same time. Be at peace.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on April 25, 2021, 02:17:17 PM
Thank you xyzcf for your always wise words of wisdom,
my D33 made a comment to me "i hope Dad figures things out before it's too late".  I said to her half in jest " it's not too late until you die".  We started to talk about what she meant and she said that she did not want her and her brother and sister to give up on him.

I really could not comment on that statement too much.  D33 is the most logical one of our three children.  It does make me wonder, since we are in an older crisis, H will be 73 this year, if there will be time for him to at least reconnect with our children.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on April 26, 2021, 01:40:07 AM
I really could not comment on that statement too much.  D33 is the most logical one of our three children.  It does make me wonder, since we are in an older crisis, H will be 73 this year, if there will be time for him to at least reconnect with our children.

FIL(RIP) - xW's F - never did come out of his crisis so the question you pose is a valid concern, especially with respect to your kids and their R with their F.... The time is limited and the clock is running... Add to that that the Mid-Lifer is usually NOT known for taking care of their health very well...
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on April 26, 2021, 03:50:34 PM
Thank you for your response UrsaM.  Can you share with me how long your FIL was in his crisis and at what age he was called home.  I ask because i have not found a lot to read about a true elder crisis that mirrors a mid life crisis.  Those of us i know who have elder crisis are not much help to each other.

Thank you for your time and support to all of us
5hil
Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on April 27, 2021, 01:39:53 AM
As far as I am aware, FIL(RIP) went off into the tunnel around age 45, D'd xW's mom and remarried. That marriage lasted about 10-12 years and ended in a very adversarial D after he physically abused W2. He then dated different women with each R being shorter and shorter and it was ALWAYS the fault of the woman that the R didn't work.... He finally passed from heart failure at around age 73-74 if I recall...
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on April 27, 2021, 02:47:03 AM
Thank you UrsaM,
I very much appreciate your response.  I do see one of the elder crisis MLC'r being more aggressive toward his W.  Sounds like this was not the case before MLC.  His MLC started in his 60's. He currently lives in the same town with his LBS. It is my understanding others have a combination of living at home, in the same town or not too far away.

As you have probably read my MLC'r is in another country.  Thus those of us who are working through our elder crisis although we have the elder in common we are struggling to find those with the elder experience.

Looks like i am at 150 posts can someone create a new link for me plz.
Title: Father's Day
Post by: UrsaMajor on April 27, 2021, 07:17:02 AM
What Title do you want? The new thread needs a name....
Title: Father's Day
Post by: 5hilmerton on April 27, 2021, 01:55:17 PM
A yes sir, can i keep the same Father's Day? If I need another title Father's Day Now.

New Thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11768.0 (https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11768.0)