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Author Topic: My Story Get Through Today

M
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My Story Get Through Today
OP: June 24, 2019, 11:56:20 PM
New thread time...didn't have a great idea for a name so I went with what I need to do right now - "get through today"

Old thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10322.0
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#1: June 25, 2019, 12:14:35 AM
Coming along music cx
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Me 52
H53
Divorced 3/dec/2019
Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Finances Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang for 3 yrs now Vanisher but  twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

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Re: Get Through Today
#2: June 25, 2019, 01:27:38 AM
Music

Excellent title. This is a horrible time in your story but you do sound strong and always have good advice for others so once you find your feet again you’ll keep moving forward and living, as Help says.

Until then - get through today.
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#3: June 25, 2019, 01:39:06 AM
Music,

Coming from your last thread, if you want to write a letter in response as a way to get whatever out of your heart, do so ... just don't send it... .Hold on to it, burn it, shred it, whatever..... but, if it feels right to get it out in that way, then there is nothing wrong with doing it.....

And, I see you are in the MLC vs. Walk-Away debate, right on schedule. We all do that, usually repeatedly.... But, as you noted, since he's also abandoning his kids, it is VERY MLC'ish behaviour and, to be honest, does it really make a difference? If we are to live as if they are not coming back, then it makes NO difference if it is MLC or something else. The result is the same - we live our lives and live them better, we grow, we make progress, we rediscover ourselves. IF it is MLC and, at some point the Mid-Lifer gets their head out of their ..... fog.... and wants to reconnect/reconcile, we get to decide if that is what we want or not.

If "Standing" is synonymous with "Stasis" then there is something wrong. This is a time to be used to do our own work and proceed with our own growth.

This event too will pass... Maybe like a kidney stone... but it WILL pass... and like BD, you will make it through this.... Going Black Hole Dark is the right thing to do for YOUR own emotional stability. He has strung you along with his messages for long enough, making sure you were where he left you and where he wanted.  Now it is time for him to really feel the consequences of his actions and ignoring his bids via WhatsApp is one way. There is no need to respond to his anchor checks. Let him feel whatever he feels when you are no longer waiting at home for him.... That is the consequence of his action....

{{{{{Bear Hug}}}}}}
UM
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Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: Get Through Today
#4: June 25, 2019, 03:22:42 AM
Attaching too Music, and I'm sorry about his latest antics.  He's still a mess so try not to take any of this personal. 
I think telling him you will no longer be his friend was the exact right thing to do.  Let him talk to his ow about his problems and get advice from her.  He WILL feel his loss.  But these are his consequences.

You are one strong woman. 

{{Big Hug}}
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

H
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Re: Get Through Today
#5: June 25, 2019, 03:27:44 AM
Following along
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Re: Get Through Today
#6: June 25, 2019, 05:23:34 AM
Agree with others on not sending any response.

Is this an exit affair - who knows?  All that you do know at this moment in time is that your time has to now be focused on you and the children. 

So ignore his whatsapps/texts etc..... You've set a boundary - stick to it.  Initiate no contact unless about children. Understand that this too shall pass.

Say it to yourself over and over - This too shall pass.
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BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 and still going with no sign of reconciliation.

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Re: Get Through Today
#7: June 25, 2019, 07:19:47 AM
Following along Music.
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"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27. Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA  |  BD #2: 2018 - FA

W moved out - June 2019 | OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019 | Divorce final - September 2019 | Moving on

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

New Here? Read this! http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1149.0

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Re: Get Through Today
#8: June 25, 2019, 08:54:03 AM
Hi Music

Your thread name caught my attention as that's how I've been feeling for the last couple of days.. I just caught up with the last few pages of your last thread and I can understand why you feel the way you do.. I found out my H was with OW 3 weeks ago.. Up to now I thought it was fantasy and there were not really together and like you, I felt like I was BDed again when I realized she was pretty much in the picture and who knows for how long..

I agree with others, I wouldn't reply to his letter. Sometimes I wonder if they do those things to simply manipulate us or that they are so confused that they do things they feel at the time which then seem to get erased after 10 minutes.. Either way, the effect is the same. We (LBS) see all sorts of "signs" and the hope makes us hang on a little longer.. And yes, in a way we allow this to happen because we want them back in our lives but eventually (after many slaps) we realize we can't take the hurt anymore and we change our behavior to protect ourselves. Maybe that time has arrived now for you, I'm very sorry you are going through this..

I also placed a lot of importance on the reasons why he left... MLC vs WAS.. A few people here told me it didn't make any difference and I couldn't understand how it wouldn't.. But I fully agree with UM now, it really doesn't change anything. They are gone now and we don't know if they will ever come back so we really need to live life like they walked away for good... maybe the future brings an expected surprise. Hugs
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H - 44 (40 @BD1)
M - 44 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose)
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019
H gets engaged with OW (we are not divorced) - Oct 2019
H "finally" asks for divorce - Aug 2020
H marries OW - March 2021.. We are not divorced!!!

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change

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Re: Get Through Today
#9: June 25, 2019, 04:50:40 PM
Oh boy--I am so sorry Music. The letter, the WhatsApp....soooooooooooooooooo MLC. What do they call it? Prisoner mode? My H does the same thing. Thanking me profusely for taking care of everything in his absence, as if he is off at war. Well, maybe they are truly. It hits you right in the gut though, I know. And magnified even more when there is communication daily making you believe things are getting better, or that he values you. Easy to fall into that trap. I look at this "move" though not about OW per se. This is a further means to escape, and perhaps another grasp at happy. A place where the kids can visit. Ummm, yeah, OK. B/c it would have been impossible to spend any time with them at any other location before this. No, this is him painting a fantasy picture of happiness that he is utterly incapable of completing. My H is constantly telling me he is going to be a better Father. Going to do this, that and the other with S. But never follows through. I don't believe he can. I think seeing even the kids is too painful for some of these MLCers.

Anyway, sorry Music. This is painful stuff. I do think it is even more painful for them. No that it helps us any.  Hugs friend. How sweet of D to come have a cuddle with you. Sounds like just what the Dr ordered.
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Me 49
H 48
S13
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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Re: Get Through Today
#10: June 25, 2019, 06:08:45 PM
I absolutely love every word that Ursa Major wrote. Print it and put it on your fridge.
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trying2bok

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Re: Get Through Today
#11: June 25, 2019, 11:05:18 PM
Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I keep re-reading your posts and am very grateful for each one. Humbled that a bunch of strangers will reach out and help - in RL, I don't have this support as the few who do know said I should have left him ages ago now.

Yep, message received re the letter. I think I knew not to reply really and so I'll move on from that one.

KiT - yes exactly, it feels like he's off to war and is telling me things in case he doesn't see me again.

As the dust begins to settle a little bit a few things he said are a bit clearer in my head - lots of emphasis on the financial necessity of this move. He kept coming back to that and in different ways, which is usually a signal that there's some truth in it I think. He could have moved in with OW [or similar] at any point - he has been out of our home for a year [and wasn't home often for 8 months before that] yet it's only now that he's moving. He changed job in Feb and does have less money so he's obviously hung on wherever he was until he couldn't do that anymore - so he's been in a proper fantasy world, floating about where he likes until now. Now he's committed to the OW by moving in to her place - and she's enabled all this by providing it. Given the amount of times he's left her and returned to me, it's a pretty odd thing to buy or rent a place for this man - if you're her, surely? Bit desperate? Sounds healthy doesn't it - he's getting somewhere to live, she's pinning him down? If she's the big love - why didn't he move to be with her last year? He had the money to commute to work [she lives and runs a business 200+ miles away and when he moves, he isn't moving in with her. She'll still be 150+ miles away from the place he'll be living]- he only sees S once a week [and D is at Uni so visits to her are limited anyway].

Well it doesn't matter because if I'm right or not, it's not my problem and whatever he got from keeping in touch with me has gone now. There'll just be him and his choices blowin' in the wind.

Thank you again. What an amazing bunch of people you are.



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« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 11:08:47 PM by Music45 »
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#12: June 25, 2019, 11:16:14 PM
Music...and how far you have come that you can look at these things with a more detached eye right?

I suspect you're right and that he has financial troubles. And ow has him by the short and curlies. Not unusual for an MLCer. Not your problem of course unless it affects you or your kids. As you say, let him live his choices while you get on with your own life.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

M
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Re: Get Through Today
#13: June 26, 2019, 11:38:27 PM
Thanks Treasur - yes, you're right and I've bounced up a bit quicker. Still hurts. Still miss him. But I'm alright.

Ok, ok...and I think I know what I'm going to get here but the difference is that I'm writing this here and not to H.

There's something about this new deal he's set up for himself that is really bothering me - and that it's that he emphasised that this move is financially motivated. I remember a few other things about what he said and the way he said it. It's all to do with money. Now, that's fine on every level. He needs time. He needs space. I get all that but he's entering into a pact with the devil here. When he makes this move, how tied is he going to feel to her because of this alone? Does he think he has no other option because it sounded like it from some of the things he said. Does he think he's burnt his bridges back to me so may as well go with this?

There is a part of me that wants to remind him that he does have a choice - he can come home [spare room obvs] - though the "price" he'd pay for that is no contact with her.

I'm a bit torn by this. I know that going dark is the only thing to do and I should have done it sooner but this feels like something I should say to him before he commits to something that could make a bad situation worse.
I also understand that I have to leave him to his bad choices and that intervention is a kind of "rescue" - what's that quote about the lighthouse {i'm sorry, I forget on who's profile I've seen this} - the lighthouse stands and shows it's light - it doesn't go out into the storm looking for people to rescue.

Arrrgrrrrghhhhhhhh....at least I've put this on here...not contacted H already. I guess that's progress....sort of
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« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 11:39:36 PM by Music45 »
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#14: June 27, 2019, 12:09:01 AM
Ok, ok...and I think I know what I'm going to get here but the difference is that I'm writing this here and not to H.

Well.... since you asked so nicely... <whack whack whack> ROFL

I get all that but he's entering into a pact with the devil here. When he makes this move, how tied is he going to feel to her because of this alone? Does he think he has no other option because it sounded like it from some of the things he said. Does he think he's burnt his bridges back to me so may as well go with this?

Maybe to all of the above BUT (you knew there was a big ol' BUT hanging out there, right?) do you think you might have an influence on what he thinks? Can you control what he thinks? Can you change what he thinks? Didn't think so... He very well MIGHT feel tied to her now, obligated, as if he has no other choice. You can present him with a myriad of options and he will STILL believe he "has no choice" (which is clearly rubbish but they can't see that in their fog)

There is a part of me that wants to remind him that he does have a choice - he can come home [spare room obvs] - though the "price" he'd pay for that is no contact with her.

Is that the same part of you that wants to go stick a barbecue fork up your nose?  Seriously, he knows this by your behaviour and what you have previously said to him and, at the moment, the price of having no contact with Schmoopie is more than he is ready to pay...

I'm a bit torn by this. I know that going dark is the only thing to do and I should have done it sooner but this feels like something I should say to him before he commits to something that could make a bad situation worse.

How to look good putting on the Ms. FixIt hat there...


I also understand that I have to leave him to his bad choices and that intervention is a kind of "rescue" - what's that quote about the lighthouse {i'm sorry, I forget on who's profile I've seen this} - the lighthouse stands and shows it's light - it doesn't go out into the storm looking for people to rescue.

Arrrgrrrrghhhhhhhh....at least I've put this on here...not contacted H already. I guess that's progress....sort of

Yes, to all the above.... H is responsible for his decisions and for the consequences of those decisions... You (as the demon-spawn LBS form Hades) can NOT "help" him make those decisions and, to be blunt, anything you try to do to influence his decision will lead to you being blamed for the repercussions...

And yes, Lighthouses do NOT run all over the island looking for ships to rescue, that is a FACT.

And yes, dear Music, it IS progress.... But that is what we are here for....
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 12:32:48 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

M
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Re: Get Through Today
#15: June 27, 2019, 12:23:34 AM
OMG Ursa!  ;D ;D ;D
The first person to come back at me and it had to be you with your gif and your wise words of fire! Lol. You've cheered me up and have actually made me laugh this morning and "laughing" at anything MLC has been impossible for too long this week...
I have straight, blonde hair....now going to go out and purchase enormous pink hat!! This is a much better plan than anything else I've thought of myself re H.

THANK YOU Ursa.  8) ;D


{can't promise won't be back with other ridiculous thoughts from middle of the night LBS thinkiness, lol}
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#16: June 27, 2019, 12:34:02 AM
Middle of the night? It's 09:30 in the morning on Thursday on my side of the planet....  :o

that IS the down side of having members all over the world,.... One can get whacked with a 2x4 almost 24 hours per day....
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 12:35:52 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

M
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Re: Get Through Today
#17: June 27, 2019, 12:36:43 AM
Yes, I'm in the UK so only an hour behind you - but these thoughts come and knock in my brain in the middle of the night...that's when they wake you up and seem like a good idea!
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

W
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Re: Get Through Today
#18: June 27, 2019, 12:38:13 AM
Music, go out any buy that hat! Seriously, its summer so its all cool (and women in summer hats are kinda sexy). I bet you will feel great when you put it on  ;)
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Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

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Re: Get Through Today
#19: June 27, 2019, 02:00:55 AM
Music

You would suit that hat!

I’ve been pondering your idea about reminding H there’s a spare room at yours. I can see your point. So I thought of shocks sis being told by her H she could stay in their room. She wouldn’t have wanted it probably unless he suggested it now. She got to her own conclusion after her OM moved in with her and you can tell now how certain she is in her decision and that’s what you want from your H.

Acorns words too are always ‘leave him alone’ type of thing.

The difference is really that your H is not at BD and has been in touch with you daily so probably isn’t still hating you which is good. He’s moving forward. If I remember rightly BBHelp got to a stage where he went on vacation with his W at one point and when they came back she had bought a momento for OM! That’s when he took his eyes off her, and completely worked on himself.

So I’m summary (!) my pondering has got to the point of if you say ‘why dont you stay here for free but you can’t see OW anymore’ isn’t what you want. You want him to say to you ‘can I come and stay in the spare room and I won’t see OW anymore’ and he’s just not there yet. So keep your eyes off him.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#20: June 27, 2019, 10:09:36 AM
Music....stalking mostly but I second what Rose said!
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.18 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away 
Summer of 2020 Less help with chores
Spring 2021 - helping with chores again

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -32 Married with 3 children 
S - 30 Married and is now a Dr.
3 Dogs-he left them all behind

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Re: Get Through Today
#21: June 27, 2019, 11:01:44 AM

You want him to say to you ‘can I come and stay in the spare room and I won’t see OW anymore’ and he’s just not there yet. So keep your eyes off him.

Rose 🌹

Yes yes and more yes!
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Me 49
H 48
S13
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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Re: Get Through Today
#22: June 27, 2019, 11:15:24 AM
Thanks Whyus - you flatterer, you  :D

Rose...thank you for understanding why I'd even want to try and for your "pondering". It doesn't feel much like he's moving forward or hating me less this week but thanks for laying it out like that. I hate all this MLC shizzle, I really do. 3+ years since BD and still learning and still getting it wrong, lol!

Thanks for stalking, Sam!

More yes from me too, KiT!!

So today, I bought a PINK dress [no hats available but mentally I'm wearing one, lol] and didn't "look" at H...looked at the fluffy clouds in the lovely blue sky here today and saw  a cat on it's back and a dinosaur with a tennis ball!!! I'll take that!

Tomorrow I'm going to see Toy Story 4 with D and SiL.

Thank you again x
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

M
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Re: Get Through Today
#23: July 04, 2019, 10:02:01 AM
Just journaling.
Nearly 2 weeks since H's latest announcement and I've barely heard from him. Couple of emails relating to work and something he ordered for the house before. He's seen S for dinner and took D out for breakfast this week. Why he cant see them both at the same time is a mystery but at least he's seen them both. He calls them at least once a day and messages them.
Is it odd to be a bit jealous? I feel mean even writing it. I'd never utter a word to them of course but it stings a bit. D particularly talks about her Dad as if all is normal most of the time. Here's me trying to show her how to be a strong woman and not a doormat, how to have values and self respect and treat others as you'd wish to be treated. Here's her agreeing with everything, getting animated about male friends "stringing her along" yet all the while, talking about her (and I mean the following as literal truths) lying, cheating, disrespectful Dad as if he has done no wrong.
Ok, so there's more to it than that but it doesn't help. Maybe just feeling sorry for myself as H seemed to be calming down a bit and seemed a little less MLC crazy. Shows what I know.
Yes of course I hoped he'd contact me. Yes of course I know that's ridiculous. Yes I know this is a long game and, to have any hope I have to play by the rules. Just cant get the same message to brain and heart at the same time.
I suppose I'm also worried that I've played this wrong. Made my "cant be friends if you xxx" move at the wrong time somehow. I had to have a boundary and I had to enforce it but it stinks.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#24: July 04, 2019, 04:50:40 PM
Oh lovely Music.

I hear ya. I also understand about being jealous and also feel like that. I remember BBHelp saying something similar I am sure and I for sure remember Acorn saying around beginning of 2018 ‘H what about me’ when I think he planned a family day out and not just for the 2 of them. It’s like they act almost normal around the kids and we are left having gone through all of it and still we’re not wanted. But then that’s what those that have gone before say happens and it kind of makes sense for us to be left until last.

You were perfect with your boundary, you didn’t play it wrong you played it right. It does stink though. So has he not messaged you like he was at night? Or did you ignore it so he stopped? Or has he now turned it to the children and using them for contact when he needs it?

Hopefully he’s taking a step back to take two steps forward. You’re probably not ready for him now anyway, as you say he’s lying, cheating and disrespectful so if he wanted back tomorrow maybe you’d actually want more time. It would be nice to think he was turning that way though I know, it would make things so much more palatable.

Is there anything you like about him being gone? Tidier house? Choosing your TV channels? Singing loudly but terribly (maybe that’s just me ha ha!)?

I wish I could properly hug you, you are so strong it’s impressive as this is really really tough. We are all here for you and that’s you got through today.
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#25: July 04, 2019, 11:34:38 PM
Music I feel exactly the same about my Ds (18 and 20) relationship with their dad. I'm very happy he's trying to keep up his relationship with them and that they still love their dad. But I also feel jealous of the (almost) 'normal' relationship they have with him. Same with his family (that I am very close to). It's all so bizarre that they're all having these kinda normal (if less frequent) interactions with him while he and I are in this bizarro world where I feel like someone he just used to kinda know. I feel like screaming 'Can't you see there is something wrong here??!! What is wrong with you people!!!'

And I HATE that my girls choose to spend time occasionally with H and OW. I KNOW it's only because they feel they won't see him otherwise and because they are also loyal to him and want him to be happy (and he says OW makes him happy). But it still stings. I feel horrible feeling all this. It's comforting to me that other people feel the same.
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M: 50 (48 @ BD)
H: 53 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 21 (19 @ BD)
D: 19 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 19 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 47) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her. Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her.

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Re: Get Through Today
#26: July 05, 2019, 03:54:46 AM
I for sure remember Acorn saying (in her head)around beginning of 2018 ‘H what about me’ when I think he planned a family day out and not just for the 2 of them.

I wish I could properly hug you, you are so strong it’s impressive as this is really really tough. We are all here for you and that’s you got yourselfthrough today.
Rose 🌹

Just re-read this and wanted to add in the bold words to make it make more sense!
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#27: July 05, 2019, 04:07:19 AM
And I HATE that my girls choose to spend time occasionally with H and OW. I KNOW it's only because they feel they won't see him otherwise and because they are also loyal to him and want him to be happy (and he says OW makes him happy). But it still stings. I feel horrible feeling all this. It's comforting to me that other people feel the same.

I feel the same and it sucks. 2 weeks ago my nephew (SILs son) invited me to his birthday but I couldnt go. S19 said that XW was going to pick him up on the way, fine. I went upstairs onto the balcony and OM drives up (with XW riding shotgun), opens the car door and S19 gets in. It stung like a motherfiretrucker, this is the guy who was havng a PA with his mam for 6 months whilst None of us knew and they can still spend time with him.
Im sorry but I couldnt have done that, I wish that my Boys had more "balls" sometimes.
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Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

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Re: Get Through Today
#28: July 05, 2019, 09:11:53 AM
Hi everyone, thanks as always for your support.

Rose, no, the goodnight messages and all stopped the day he dropped his latest nonsense and I said I couldn't be his friend. I've stuck to my side of the boundary and he to his. I've got used to him not living here (been a year now) but finding this no contact harder than I thought. I see the sense of it. I even think I should have done it sooner (ther have been periods of less contact instigated by me because of his MLCish shenanigans) but this last couple of weeks have hit me harder. Not sure why. Maybe because those pesky expectations had crept into my head based on his coming round and having a few meals here again (after not doing that for a year). He doesn't send messages through them. My clinger has become a vanisher for now.
Thanks as always for your support, Rose. I hope your H is passed hurting you anymore than he has already. He sounds like he's doing...ok. So hope it continues.

Evermore, I'm glad sharing my feelings helped you a bit. Its helped me knowing I'm not going mad and that you feel the same. I'm close to H's family too and most don't know anything about all this so when we get together , as we did on Father's Day, you'd think there was nothing wrong.

Whyus, that's tough. Given the distances involved with where OW lives, I'm hoping I never have to go through that. Even H wont be living near her by the sounds of what he said. All mad, isn't it?

Thanks my LBS friends. Don't know what I'd do without you, I really don't.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#29: July 10, 2019, 10:39:02 AM
Music - Despite the shock of the move, I am so impressed with your bouncing back.  This "leaves" are not easy.  Opens up old wounds all over again.  Think of this as time for you to heal and take care of you.  Enjoy your freedom a bit while giving him the thing he claims he needs.  Space and time.  I realized that is the only thing I could do for H.  I loved him enough to give him space and time.

Remember....if you love someone...set them free............now wait for the rest to be filled in at a date TBD!

As for the time with the kids....my H will do the same thing....make time with them as a family and totally exclude me...yet when I am having something at the house and he gets word of it....he "drops" in.  It stinks.

As for H...financial issues....great...hope there are some more.  Welcome to the real world.

Living with OW - Awesome....now he is gonna face reality!  Can't run from her "bad" points anymore!

Is OW getting desperate and pulling out all the cards...could be.  Let her pressure him.  Just sit back and be there to support him when he falls flat on his face.  (don't mean to be mean....I believe they need to fail in some to see the error in their ways)

Keep taking care of you Music!  Love of support here!





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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.18 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away 
Summer of 2020 Less help with chores
Spring 2021 - helping with chores again

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -32 Married with 3 children 
S - 30 Married and is now a Dr.
3 Dogs-he left them all behind

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Re: Get Through Today
#30: July 10, 2019, 10:55:41 PM
Hi Music

I know that during my fantasy life of jetting off to see om there were things I noticed about him that I didn’t like but the lying fog would gloss over them. However, I think with hindsight, my brain was attempting to bring me back to reality by showing me these things and though the addiction to escape reality and jet off to om was thrilling in the end I think I would have had my awakening even if he hadn’t come to live with me.
It still took a long time but I guess it would be longer if the fantasy was not interrupted by reality if you get what I mean.
The thing to understand as I see it now is it’s very much an addiction and it made me feel something which was better than feeling nothing.

Shocks sis


Just posting Shock's Sit reply to my question here so I can read it again when I need to - found it soooo helpful. What an amazing thing Shock's Sis is doing to answer all our questions.

Thanks Sam - you are so wise. Please can you follow me round all day and whisper useful things when I need them most? Lol. I can't quite bring myself to think of this latest plot twist as awesome but I know what you mean about reality kicking in. Clearly SSis needed a bit of that in her battle so we'll see. He's not actually going to be living with OW - just in her financial pocket so to speak [renting from her]. He's made his bed...

So, not much to report...H has gone v quiet with me...not even heard from him much about work stuff [we still work together albeit one day a week now and he seems to be ducking that somehow]. He seems to be in a different phase of some kind but not my circus, not my monkeys. He's still seeing S&D so I'm glad for them.
I'm just going about my life - working etc. I'm pretty good at the fake it till you make it thing and I find the more I fake it, the easier it is to make it. I'm ok. I've been really busy this week [doing two jobs] so that has helped.

On we go, hey.

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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#31: July 11, 2019, 08:32:15 AM
Music...so just renting from her for cheap living....even a bigger awesome because he is just using her to get something he needs. 

You don't need anyone to follow you around.  To me it was just changing my thinking a little at a time.   You can do the same.  We all have so much power through positivity...the challenge is to harness it. 

Look for little things....small positives add up.  Look for blessing.  #1....you are not in MLC.   #2  Your MLC H is off irritating and using someone else now instead of you.   

It hurts to be alone...however, that is also where we get our strength if we work at it.  Not easy but doable.

You got this Music!  Know it and own it!
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.18 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away 
Summer of 2020 Less help with chores
Spring 2021 - helping with chores again

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -32 Married with 3 children 
S - 30 Married and is now a Dr.
3 Dogs-he left them all behind

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Re: Get Through Today
#32: July 11, 2019, 09:35:55 AM
You're right Sam. Everything you've said is so right and yes, I'm ok. I've just got that feeling at the moment like when you step into a rowing boat on the park lake...everything's a bit rocky while you adjust then you sit down and get paddling. I'm just adjusting to this new phase. I saw H today...at work...he came and chatted like before...like nothing is different or wrong. I was bright and breezy and chatted as I would to any colleague.

Something is different...cant easily explain it...maybe he's also adjusting to getting in his new boat...though his has a leak.....hee hee hee hee  8) ;D
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#33: July 23, 2019, 04:51:12 AM
Quote from: Music45
I even think I should have done it sooner (there have been periods of less contact instigated by me because of his MLCish shenanigans) but this last couple of weeks have hit me harder. Not sure why. Maybe because those pesky expectations had crept into my head based on his coming round and having a few meals here again (after not doing that for a year).

Yep... and because you shut down the cake-eating (as it was) he's off pouting and giving you the silent treatment....

Don't you love the temper tantrums?

At least he's ivil at work.

No, you put the boundary in place when you needed to so there is no right or wrong time.... MLC'ers have to have boundaries given to them because otherwise they will take whatever they can....

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Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: Get Through Today
#34: July 23, 2019, 08:53:34 AM
Thanks Ursa. Hadnt thought of it like that. H was  never a sulker, he was always a letssortthisoutanddiscussitnow-er so I hadnt thought of it like that. Then again, this is him in MLC and he probably thinks unicycling while juggling bananas is a great idea right now.
Thanks.
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 10:26:37 AM by Music45 »
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#35: July 23, 2019, 12:57:12 PM
Weirdness continues...

Tonight H came over to take D out for dinner. I've been dreading this a bit because he'd messaged me to say he'd look at a household glitch we have. Last time he came over he announced his move to the OW funded place, so I was apprehensive he was going to leave me with some other MLC nugget. Anyway...he didn't. He called for her and was here 90 seconds tops then fixed the glitch when he dropped her back.
He's now gone off with S for a drink. S having had dinner at home with me. Why H couldn't take them both out is a mystery. S was due back 20 mins after H picked up D. He does this. Takes them out or does things with them separately. Weird. Any idea what that's about?

Anyway..no new MLC nugget drop today. I did my best LBS when he was here (all of 10 mins tops in total). Light, bright, smiley. Even teased him a bit and joked about his household repair. Teased him in front of the kids. He smiled and relaxed a bit. Took the jokes in good humour. Our relationship was based very much on a shared sense of humour so I figure it's no bad thing to remind him of that. I also hope it shows I'm not moping about or grumpy with him re OW.

It's still hard when he leaves. Breath takingly difficult. It feels like we've gone right back again to when he could barely be in the house, barely stand still. He looked unsure about what reception he would receive. Uncomfortable to be here a little bit. I find this v sad. Maybe just a big cycle away for now.

Anyway,  on we go. I'm ok. Just miss him. A. Lot.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#36: July 23, 2019, 03:52:22 PM
Music--my BD was May 2016. My H has seemed to have gone back to how he was back in the early days too. There was a period of time where he was at the house more regularly and would chat with me and even hug. But now, I must have the cooties again. LOL. I think they go into a phase of re-committing themselves to their choices (full tunnel mode) which cause them to feel extra guilty when around us.

No idea why your H hangs with the children separately.......other than MLC crazy.

Sorry it is hard when he leaves. It is like they leave all over again when we have a somewhat "normal" interaction. I've started just looking at my H as a science experiment now (Milly's idea) and it seems to have helped with that detachment.
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H 48
S13
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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Re: Get Through Today
#37: July 23, 2019, 11:17:31 PM
Thanks KiT - Milly's is a great way to think of it...as a science experiment! Thanks for that. I'll picture H in a petri dish from now on! Lol.

Typical isn't it - no actual nonsense from H last night on his visit so my brain made up for it and I dreamt all sorts of madness from him. Woke up this morning having to straighten out my thoughts between what's real and what isn't - you know when you have those dreams and they feel real so you have to be sure you've got it right?
Thanks a lot brain. As if it isn't mad enough in real life without you kicking in!
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#38: July 24, 2019, 03:05:08 AM
My 2 Europennies on why he won't go with S & D at the same time?  Too much guilt in the feelz...

See, that is what his happy family USED to look like before he went off and got all stupid and picked up an Affair Down partner... Mom, Dad, 2 kids, little house with the picket fence and a dog... You know the drill..... he tries to avoid those feelings by only going out with one kid at a time, even sequentially... although that makes absolutely ZERO sense...

Actually, H is NOT the Perti Dish.. he is what is IN the Petri dish... <snort>

He is probably relieved that you were joking with him etc, despite OW because that means (for him) that maybe he isn't such a bad guy after all and you are more or less OK with his shenanigans (keep in mind this is the MLC Brain in action)... I mean, the last time he announced anything about OW, he got hammered with a boundary.... Mid-Lifers do NOT like to have boundaries applied to them.... After all, they are supposed to be able to do ANYTHING they want if it makes them happy....  ::)
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Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: Get Through Today
#39: July 24, 2019, 03:17:40 AM
Think you're right Ursa. Too much guilt. Also add in a bit of fogged brain not thinking straight etc.

As for boundaries, receiving you loud and clear, Houston. I'll keep that in mind though I'm unlikely to see him for a while now.

I'll let him grow in his petri dish while me and my white coat and microscope do something else more useful.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#40: July 25, 2019, 09:26:24 AM
Hey Music

I love the thought of your H in a petri dish! It would be interesting to watch if it wasnt so devastating to live through.  And those that arent living through it cant see it!  Agh!

H is maybe taking the children separately as he is 'single' and taking them both is a bit too 'family' like. As you say who knows but good on you for going with the flow.   

ShocksSis is quite big on the MLCer seeing strength as an attraction in the LBSer so you showing him you aren't bitter being light bright and smiley is as much as you can do so well done.  I know how difficult it is when they leave again especially when not hung around too long, I mean what are these 'better things to do' that they have going on anyway.   

I'm ok. Just miss him. A. Lot.

I hear ya,
Rose
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#41: July 26, 2019, 01:36:49 AM
Thanks Rose...thank goodness for people who get it and understand.

Had a few message exchanges with H yesterday. Mostly work related. Tipped into a couple of comments about the extraordinarily hot weather we had in the UK yesterday but nothing more than a friendly exchange.
Last night he emailed. He knows a couple who he met through a work project taken on since BD [so people I don't know but he's talked about] and he's got quite friendly with them. Tragically, they lost their 18 year old son in an accident this week. Horrifying. Clearly, from H's email which he sent to tell me about this, H is very sad and upset about it. He'd met their son a couple of times . Just awful. I'm only mentioning it because H has not showed much compassion since BD - in fact there have been a couple of occasions when his comments about some things have been insensitive to say the least - at least in this email he showed some real emotion at this awful news.
Things like this make you hug your family and count your blessings so I will be doing that. As for MLC H? Who knows.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#42: July 26, 2019, 02:39:47 AM
Yes, it is one of those puzzling things isn't it? Particularly if your spouse was given to empathy or compassion before. Maybe they need to 'relearn' it at one step removed from their own life. Idk.

I know my skin is thinner than it used to be for any kind of suffering or loss. As you say, a normal healthy person sees it as a reminder to hold their loved ones closer and feel grateful for what they have. Funnily enough you have just reminded me of a thing that always puzzled me in my xh's FOO. He survived a fire at 15 which killed an uncle and 17 year old cousin. I could never understand how, as a parent, that would not make you feel so grateful for your child's survival that you would let go of old expectations and behaviours...but that absolutely was not how his parents behaved. His mother blamed every 'failure' to be the son she wanted on the fire...to the point where she tole him that she wished he had died too bc then she would have the memory of her 'perfect' son. His father seemed to feel as if my xh had more of a responsibility to be who/what he wanted him to be, almost like making xh's survival justified in some way. And the wider family simply never discussed it. Awful. Never made sense to me.
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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Re: Get Through Today
#43: August 19, 2019, 04:04:38 PM
Music

How are things going with you?

Miss you
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#44: August 20, 2019, 12:09:51 AM
Hello everyone

Hello Rose. Just posted on your thread too. Weirdly I feel like you too. I've kept reading posts on the forum but haven't felt able to update my own thread. I'm not sure why. I know people here who are great at laying out their feelings and interactions with their MLCers but I've just not had the will to update my own. I can see how journaling can help too so I'm not sure what I'm avoiding [if anything]. Maybe laying out the truth of things as they stand - which aren't great. Maybe that's it.

Thanks too Treasur for your post, which I've only just seen for some reason. Your exH and that situation. No words. How horrible. Horrible.

So in my world, I have barely seen H. Or heard from him. Or had any messages. Fair enough, after he confirmed at the end of June that he was moving to an OW funded place [not with her - she's 200 miles away] and effectively confirmed they were still on, I told him I couldn't be friends. Now, in the 3+ years of his MLC, there have been pockets of time where we have interacted less but we always ended up sharing messages etc until something else happened. Also he'd pop in at home and had even had a few meals with us. This all ended at the end of June. He's still seeing S & D regularly [well once a week] and talks to them regularly usually [twice a day] but he has kept well away from me and home.
Examples - last week, he came out of his way to drop D home but didn't even get out of the car, he was with S at a hobby club within walking distance of the house last night and didn't pop round to see D. We still kind of work together but he doesn't update me on work stuff like he used to or mention anything about S&D like he did.

I know they cycle and I'd got used to that - so was prepared to not hear from him after seeing him but since end of June - quite a big change. I'm not really sure what to make of this. Any guidance welcome. I'm not stage watching - I'm genuinely too busy - working two jobs at the moment so apart from anything I don't have time to sit and wallow in this and I'm very grateful. He'll do what he'll do but I find this change significant and I don't know why. He clearly is happy with his choices at the moment. Can't spend time bothering with me.
Funnily enough he's here, as I write doing some work [we wont be working for the same company come Oct 1st] and I've seen him and talked to him a couple of times - he seems ok. "normal", pleasant, calm. No shark eyes. I've got to work hard to interact with him with a smile and an air of "look at me, I'm fine" cos it hurts when I see him now. I do better when he's not around I think as I can get on with life and live like he's not coming back - when I see him it's just a reminder of the H i lost. All that love. All those cuddles. All that support. All gone. All gone now. I know Shock's Sis says they can't hold back that dam forever. I've hung on to that but I think he's clearly doing ok at the moment.

See just now I had to go ask him a work related question. He was in a room on his own on the phone. So now I'm triggered thinking it was probably OW. No reason to think that. Could be anyone

Ok, now I know why I haven't updated for a while. It brings it all home. How much I've lost and how much I still love him. Grrrrrrrrrrr. Will stop cos I'm rambling.

It's coming up to 3 and a half years since BD and he seems further in it than even when I regularly saw the shark eyes and all the other scripted MLC stuff.
I think I could use something, some sign that standing is going to work out in the long term. Something, anything to keep me going. Probably unreasonable but sometimes in life, you just need a little sign, don't you?

 :(
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 12:50:02 AM by Music45 »
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#45: August 20, 2019, 12:58:18 AM
Oh no Music, I hope you don’t feel worse after posting.

It’s probably easier for him not being involved with you. Less guilt etc. He’s doing the easy thing. I’m like you and find it easier when not seeing H and maybe they feel the same. Can pretend easier that they are in their own fantasy film and seeing us reminds them they are not.

It’s hard not having anything from them, no visits texts etc but maybe that propels them along a bit. They need thinking time and get more of it when we are not around so maybe it’s a ‘good’ thing.

If he’s at work I am sure he could be on the phone to OW but more than likely it would be work related to someone else? The more he has to do with her the more chance he has to get annoyed with her I guess.

Its good he is seeing his children and twice a day is quite a lot, he’ll be getting what he got from you, from them. Meanwhile you get nothing. Unfair as BBHelp says.

I’m off to read your note on my thread now, thanks in advance!

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#46: August 20, 2019, 12:27:12 PM
Thanks Rose...as always. I'm sure you're right about the guilt. I dont talk to D & S much about their Dad - I havent anything to say. S though does think his Dad is feeling guilty and therefore keeps away. It's such a change in H though - so if it is guilt, does that mean he wasnt feeling guilt all the time from when MLC started until June? 3 + years when he's been a clinging boomerang with daily contact. If it is guilt now is that significant?
Idk the answers to any of these of course. Just wondering, you know how you do? I've got used to the not hearing from him now. What a sad thing to have to write about your husband, hey?

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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#47: August 20, 2019, 11:58:07 PM
In my opinion, the guilt can be significant IF it motivates them to actually DO something but many times, they just seem to either want to run away again from it or wallow in it in a massive pity party and have a pajama decade..... It really is dependant if they DO something about the things that cause the guilt in the first place, aka remorse...
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Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: Get Through Today
#48: August 22, 2019, 02:01:30 PM
Music--my BD was May 2016. My H was a stage 5 clinger for a LONG time. Until he wasn't. I believe they are straddling the fence so to speak for a long time. Then, at around the 3 year mark, they (well most) fully commit to their new lives. So, while it does seem they are pulling away from us, and in fact they are, I also believe they are moving forward in their journey. It is movement. Yes, it's painful b/c it is as if we are losing them all over again. But it is their journey after all.

Hugs friend. You are healing. Slowly. But  this takes much time for us too.
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H 48
S13
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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Re: Get Through Today
#49: August 22, 2019, 10:54:21 PM
Thanks Ursa. I don't know a lot about guilt of that degree [I'm pleased to say] but thanks for giving me food for thought.

KiT, thank you. I've read posts where you mentioned the change in your H but didn't think to compare so thanks - I didn't think of it as "movement" either so again, food for thought.

Little update
H was in another city for work yesterday. I knew this from the kids. He called me late on [v v v unusual] while he was driving back. Turned out he wanted advice about someone at work. I was so surprised I offered my insight. Only after the call did I think "hang on. Go talk to OW with your work probs" etc. etc. etc!!!! I'll likely not hear from him again now but if this becomes a habit again, I won't engage with it.
H, it ain't OW for fun and Wife for the tough stuff. No thank you. If you're anchor checking, H, you're gonna need a bigger boat.

 8)


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« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 10:56:47 PM by Music45 »
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#50: August 23, 2019, 09:13:31 AM
Music....there could be so much going on with H right now.  It could be guilt.  It could also be OW pulling the strings and he is the puppet.  She is providing him a home...don't you think she will use that to control him.  Look what I am doing...you wifey just tossed you aside.  Blah Blah Blah.

Sadly the MLCers seem to let the puppet masters have control for awhile until they are strong enough to stand on their own.

I also agree with Rose that "thinky" time is good.   They can't think with us around.  So let him go off on his own and see his fantasy blow up.

I know it is so hard to have contact and then loose it...just keep doing what is best for you!  You got this!
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.18 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away 
Summer of 2020 Less help with chores
Spring 2021 - helping with chores again

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -32 Married with 3 children 
S - 30 Married and is now a Dr.
3 Dogs-he left them all behind

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Re: Get Through Today
#51: August 27, 2019, 07:42:51 AM
Quote from: Music45
If you're anchor checking, H, you're gonna need a bigger boat.

And, for this, you get the "LBS Saying of the Week" Award!

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Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: Get Through Today
#52: August 28, 2019, 12:17:06 AM
Ha!! Thanks Ursa!! I'd like to dedicate my award to all us LBS who still maintain a sense of humour against all odds! Lol

Thanks Sam. Good thoughts, yes. Something has changed for certain so you may be right. When he was at home still,ages ago. Can't remember exactly but it was one of his more lucid moments when he mentioned the pressure he got from OW re spending Christmas with her. It was when he was wanting back in [on what I now know was one of his false returns]. I remember thinking then that it was a little insight but it got lost when he went off again. So you're probably right. I'm keeping well out of it.

Thanks guys.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#53: August 29, 2019, 11:26:36 PM
Saw H yesterday. Long story short: H has been tasked with clearing a number of rooms of company stuff that's no longer needed as the company has been taken over and things are changing. We've worked here together more or less 6 years and for a long time H was the boss. We put a lot into it. Saved a lot of money for the owners by doing stuff ourselves etc etc. It's been a drawn out process.
Yesterday, H was here while I was, clearing stuff out. He was doing his arrogant MLCer thing [except I know him well enough to see that sometimes this is a lot of bluff to hide how he feels]. Got to the end of it and he has to go off to his other job. He comes to say goodbye and he says how sad this process has made him feel. He mentioned all the effort we'd put in to making it work etc. I could tell he was upset. There were other people around and without really thinking about it, I went to give him a friendly "it'll-be-ok" hug [I'm a hugger. I hug my hairdresser so I was not doing anything special for him] - I was going for the sort of thing people do now - a hug rather than a handshake. Except he properly put both arms around me and hugged me hard and for way longer than the normal "hugs friend, see you later" thing. Proper hugged me close.
He even rested his head on mine and then, kissed my hair. He sent me a message later thanking me for "earlier" and apologising for being sentimental.

Now I've been in this game too long to give it any importance [unfortunately]. It did surprise me. I guess I caught him just as a bit of fog lifted? For a nanosecond! It has served a purpose though. It's reminded me why I'm standing.I think I needed that because I have been wondering how much longer I can do this [coming up on 3.5 years now]. It's reminded me that my H is in there, somewhere I guess. It's also good to see that he FEELS something about all this work change. About a year ago or so, he was very disinterested and just hated it all - it was all just about him.

As KiT said...shows some tiny movement in him. Nothing to get excited about but movement all the same. I'll take that.

Back to it getting on without him.

((((HUGS)))) all!!!
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 11:28:43 PM by Music45 »
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#54: August 30, 2019, 04:16:15 PM
Woo hoo didn’t you do well Music!

Such a shame things are changing work wise but I know what you mean about not thinking about the hug. Last night my H was here and I asked him if he wanted a coffee as I was passing something to S meaning I was right next to H so almost touched him gently as i asked. I caught myself and didn’t but it was instinct. Who knew that was still there, sounds a bit like you - in the hug before you realised you were doing it. Glad it was decent and that H texted afterwards.

That’s both you and Sam have had recent hugs! Wonder who’ll be next!

Glad it’s given you a boost, but a realistic one
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#55: August 31, 2019, 12:41:56 PM
Thanks Rose. So odd isn't? Journaling about a hug from H. Something that should be so normal but isn't in our world.

Busy_Bee posted this on Shocks Sis thread. I didnt want to hijack that thread but wondered if anyone knew anymore about this? Think I read it somewhere (main site articles??)  but cant recall.  Fits with what I'm seeing with my MLCer so am interested.

There will be time when MLCer will disconnect/ drop off from their previous life completely. 
Normally it would happen after 4 y. mark. Even if he was a clinger he will became almost vanisher..
It has to do something with them being in the darkest place.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#56: September 16, 2019, 10:47:04 AM
Hi everyone,
Not had much to say about my MLCer recently. He's continued to push away and I havent seen him very much in the last few weeks (once I think). I've had a few emails but work related ones. He's still seeing the kids once a week and talks to them daily.
Today I found out (when I had to call him with a work issue and got the foreign ring tone) that he's gone abroad again. He's done this before but always told  me. This time: nothing. Only told the kids the day before.
He's made no offer to take D away during her Uni break and I've been working two jobs ahead of redundancy but he's b*%%$*d off.
Had a tough day at work and this just really got to me today.
If this is "clinging boomerang" still, it's not the same as the clinging boomeranging behaviour of the last 3.5 years.
Really down today. I know there are LBS with far worse to deal with but this is just hard.

Not much support for my stand in real life.
Any insight or wise words would really help.This is the only place where I know people understand.
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« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 10:56:28 AM by Music45 »
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#57: September 16, 2019, 11:22:25 AM
Sorry to hear Music.  So tough when they come and go.  I so understand what you are going through.  The hiding of info...why?  They just get so weird.

You can get through this.  You are a very strong woman and tomorrow is a new day! 
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.18 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away 
Summer of 2020 Less help with chores
Spring 2021 - helping with chores again

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -32 Married with 3 children 
S - 30 Married and is now a Dr.
3 Dogs-he left them all behind

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Re: Get Through Today
#58: September 16, 2019, 12:57:12 PM
Hey Music lovely lady.

Lovely to hear from you but also not. We get you, we hear you, we understand you and we stand shoulder to shoulder with you.

That’s so bad about him going overseas. My H went away for a few days, he did tell us but it’s hard knowing he has this ‘other life’ that seems to be all fun and not needing or missing us. Also who is he with.

All we can do is take our eyes off them and look at ourselves. It’ll have been too difficult to tell you he was going away so he didn’t. Took the easy route, as they do.

Look at the good things, him being in touch with the kids is good. And daily is good. He knows this is unfair on you so isnt in touch so as to not feel the guilt but that only works for a while. It’s a cycle and the longer he’s not in touch the more thinking time he has.

I feel better knowing nothing and then when I hear what he’s up to I start thinking about it all. If you hadn’t had to call him you would feel better today wouldn’t you?!

Please PM me if you need to, you are doing so good.
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#59: September 17, 2019, 01:51:26 PM
Music

How is today going? Hope you are getting through ok.

Thinking of you
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Get Through Today
#60: September 17, 2019, 11:43:11 PM
Hi Rose, bless you I'm ok. Thanks Sam too.
I picked myself up and me and S & D went out playing mini golf yesterday and had fun. Today we're out for the day too...making the most of Ds last week before going back to Uni and S having a week off.
Monday was tough at work so that didnt help...as you rightly said Rose, without that, I might not have known where H was and not be bothered by it all. I've worked out that I still have those darned expectations re H...try as I might, they just keep coming back. The only thing I'd say is that I'm not sitting about, I'm doing stuff and having fun with S&D etc.
Not got time to post much right now but I'm ok.
Thank you...as ALWAYS for your support.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#61: September 18, 2019, 12:47:24 AM
We do get it...and yes, as you know, it is about those pesky expectations. Which of course are quite reasonable expectations to have in normal circumstances with a healthy adult human.
Nothing wrong with your expectations, just with who you are expecting them from.

It takes a while for that reality to sink in doesn't it? I honestly found what helped most was to have little short reminder mantras in my head that would always deflate my expectation of 'normal'...like 'h is bonkers' or 'h is not the same person' or even 'h is dead' lol. I think I even gave the MLC version a different name for a while to try to train my brain to stop expecting him to behave like the person I used to know  ;)....and I stopped looking at what the MLC version was doing which also helped.

Well done you for getting back up though and making some fun with your family. You are doing more than ok  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Get Through Today
#62: September 25, 2019, 12:49:02 PM
My H went from Stage 5 Clinger to almost Vanisher overnight. It was a little over the 3 year mark. I think, like Busy Bee said, they get to a point where they "commit" to their new lives at some point. It is rarely a permanent thing, but is yet another, now desperate attempt, to fill that gaping hole and fix themselves. They have to go through this part unfortunately. It hurts and makes us feel even more left behind when they are off in LaLaLand. But, I don't think it is all fun times wherever they go. And if it is, it is likely drug or alcohol induced. Yes, it is forward movement, but like you, I've found this part extremely painful, especially from a former clinger.
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Re: Get Through Today
#63: September 25, 2019, 02:37:33 PM
My H went from Stage 5 Clinger to almost Vanisher overnight. It was a little over the 3 year mark. I think, like Busy Bee said, they get to a point where they "commit" to their new lives at some point. It is rarely a permanent thing, but is yet another, now desperate attempt, to fill that gaping hole and fix themselves. They have to go through this part unfortunately. It hurts and makes us feel even more left behind when they are off in LaLaLand. But, I don't think it is all fun times wherever they go. And if it is, it is likely drug or alcohol induced. Yes, it is forward movement, but like you, I've found this part extremely painful, especially from a former clinger.

KIT I also find myself in a similar position to this so thanks for that.

Hope you are good Music
Rose 🌹
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Re: Get Through Today
#64: September 25, 2019, 03:18:04 PM
It must be script, I had a boomerang for just over 3 yrs to Vanisher. Committed at that time to other life with ow. Vanished from kids as well. Xx
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Re: Get Through Today
#65: September 25, 2019, 11:02:51 PM
Thanks so much Treasur, KiT, Rose and Phoenix...

Gosh, yes, certainly seems a familiar pattern then...all at around the 3 - 3.5 year mark our MLCers have taken a turn away...and yes, KiT, it's hard. Really really hard, isn't it? I would never want to compare any type of MLC with another but this is one element of a "clinger" that's particularly hard. They make you think they might come through it sooner maybe, because they haven't gone off in a puff of smoke from the get go.

Urgh! Thanks for reminding me that it is movement, KiT.

Urgh. Again!!
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Re: Get Through Today
#66: December 23, 2019, 11:58:52 PM
Music

Has it really been September since your last post here?

How have things been? How are you? Hoping you have an ok Christmas planned ahead.

Sending you love
Rose 🌹
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
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Re: Get Through Today
#67: December 24, 2019, 12:10:22 AM
Music

Has it really been September since your last post here?

How have things been? How are you? Hoping you have an ok Christmas planned ahead.

Sending you love
Rose 🌹

Yes, it really was September....

What is playing in your life, Music? (Pun intended)  ;)
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Re: Get Through Today
#68: December 25, 2019, 05:51:16 AM
Sorry I am not music, but our stories are very similar.  Several people have mentioned the three year mark and my story is very similar.  He appears to be moving out of state with OW and her kids, leaving his older kids and grandchild behind.  Is there a tie between boundaries and the three year mark, ie going further away?.  Where can I read more about three year mark as this seems like a different timeline than the usual one, re hearts blessing.  Thanks!
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Re: Get Through Today
#69: December 25, 2019, 06:52:39 AM
Counting - I would like that a well.  Coming up on 3 years in a few months, and further apart than ever.  Seems to be a significant time (3 years).  IDK where to find that info, but I'll post if I do find it.

In the meantime - Music - let us know how you are doing.

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Re: Get Through Today
#70: December 25, 2019, 06:57:22 AM
My h cake ate for 3 yrs then stopped speaking or seeing me. Just gone in to the start of 6th yr xx
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Re: Get Through Today
#71: January 07, 2020, 11:49:13 AM
Hi music, how are you? Xx
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Re: Get Through Today
#72: January 21, 2020, 10:23:32 AM
Hello everyone, thank you for your enquiries. I think I'm not getting notifications so must look at that.

I can't believe it was September when I last posted either...but I've been around, reading posts and keeping up to date. Why have I not posted? Well there's not been much to say. MLCer has just continued to do his thing and I mine. There has really not been any change in him that I can see until just recently but I'll come on to that in a second. We have had occasional contact, usually to do with the kids or something work related [we're in the same field though not at the same company]. He has definitely been cycling I think. I'm just getting on with stuff. Unlike last Christmas, I didn't stress it and accepted an invitation to H's brothers as the kids wanted to go. All his side of the family were there...except H. Odd. They all seem to know now that he's not living at home with us but they're lovely to me and include me in everything so...it's all MLC bonkers but it's ok.

On to more recent events. H's father, who was diagnosed with dementia just over a year ago had two spells in hospital. The first [unrelated to his dementia] really triggered a decline in his mental health [which is not uncommon apparently]. After his discharge, he never really slept properly again - waking up at 1, 2, 3 in the morning asking my MiL to do typing or other stuff! Fast forward to two weeks ago and he was hospitalised again with concerns about his heart. Unfortunately, this took a sudden turn and he passed away. We were all a bit taken a back I think, as we'd been so focussed on his ongoing care, as living at home was becoming more difficult, that we didn't really see any physical health problems approaching. Maybe the dementia masked them a bit. I'm not sure. Anyway, while we are mourning his passing, we're grateful that his dementia hadn't progressed to a point where he didn't recognise any of us and his passing was actually very peaceful.

The reason for mentioning any of this about my FiL is the effect it's had on my H. H had stopped visiting his parents pretty much when his MLC kicked in properly. He didn't really speak to them or visit for months and months [maybe longer]. Given the root of his MLC being with his M, I guess that's usual? When his F went into hospital, he stepped up...started calling his M more etc. Communicating more with me and asking me to go with him as he found seeing his Dad in hospital upsetting. I did go with him as I felt it was the compassionate thing to do and helped my MiL. I know there's the whole thing about not doing them any favours but it felt like the right thing to do for me and I can cope with it.
Once his D was back home, H certainly stepped up going to see his parents [often asking me to go too]. I can't say he was much changed toward me in any real way. Still inhabited by an alien.
The second hospital stay meant more visits. He asked me again to go with him and he's been much more communicative with his older sister and younger brother about co-ordinating visiting times and looking after M.
Since D died, it's been pretty much me and H organising things - his Mum has been unwell with a virus and, well, in shock a bit and a bit out of it. His sister is struggling. His brother is better but has two small children to look after too.
H has also really talked to his M. Something he says he's never been able to do before. Ever.

I have seen more of the man I married these last couple of months. There have been times when he has been less the shell-with-alien-occupant that he has been. He's recently asked me to let him know when I get home safe after visits to his M etc. Though I saw him yesterday to sort some funeral arrangements out and he was back to being the detached weirdo he's been for..well...a long time now. I've had genuine hugs from him - back to one armed bandit ones etc.

He mentioned yesterday that after the funeral, he'd like to "maybe go for a drink" with me and talk about his Dad and how he's processing it all [he's coping better than I thought he would]. There's part of me that wants to scream at him that I'm not just here for tough times but for all time...as in that's why we got married. There's part of me that thinks I should tell him he should go tell his problems to OW as he chose her not me...but he may forget this "invitation" anyway so I won't stress too much until/if it comes up again.

So....I'd really welcome your advice on this one. Anyone gone through the passing of an MLCer's parent like this? I'm sure there must be. I know a death can trigger an MLC but that's not the case here. His childhood issues stem from his Mother's "emotional unavailability" and he had a better, though not perfect, relationship with his Dad. Interestingly, while his M has been nothing but lovely always to me, I saw a glimpse of how she perhaps was [there are a number of stories that H and his S have told me]. SiL went to give her Mother a cuddle while I was there the other day. MiL barely put an arm around her and stared into the distance as my SiL got teary about her Dad. My MiL is 81, my SiL is 60. MiL emotionally shut down there and says she feels numb...couldn't even cuddle my SiL. Very sad to see and not something I've experienced ever before.

Anyway, sorry for rambling! Thank you for reading...
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Re: Get Through Today
#73: January 21, 2020, 11:46:54 AM
I don't know how it will impact your h, although I'm sure it will in some way.

Fwiw - as long as it won't damage you - if he follows through on the invitation to 'talk' (and I guess he really means for someone who he knows,somewhere in him, genuinely loves him to listen), I would. We may no longer be able to love them in the same way, but human to human, quiet love still matters.
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Re: Get Through Today
#74: January 21, 2020, 02:08:57 PM
Oh Music I’m sorry about your FIL.

If you can handle it and are happy to do so then having the talk if he remembers is no biggie.

I’m not much use otherwise but I will say that Shocksis said it was a big event that plunged her into MLC and a big event that started to wake her up. But I do think men are different. Who knows though.

So the funeral is still to come?

Rose 🌹

(I think there’s a thread called ‘when someone dies’ or similar)
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Re: Get Through Today
#75: January 21, 2020, 04:49:29 PM
Hi Music, my H’s mother died suddenly. He had been awakening and saying he’s coming home (this started with daughter’s graduation looming and he was overseas and became frantic about attending) and I think his mother’s passing made him realise this is real life, this is family, time is passing. Don’t feel bad about your natural compassion, IMO it’s authentic to you. It’s only been not quite a year and we are slowly reconnecting, he is home, OW long gone, but moving slowly. I wouldn’t be surprised if this awakens your H.
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Re: Get Through Today
#76: January 22, 2020, 06:01:20 AM
Hi Music

I'm sorry to hear your FIL passed away.  MLC makes times like this doubly hard doesn't it.

My H left home in August 2016, he lost his mother in January 2018 and his father in March 2019.

I would say he hit a wall, mood wise, over the summer of 2019 (diagnosed with depression, off work, claiming he is constantly confused), and I think that OW has been out of the picture since this time. 

I got an apology in at the end of September 2019 and since then H seems to be putting more effort into reconnecting with our sons and to a certain extent with myself.  We have had quite a bit of contact since then and I just keep the door open and respond to any contact he makes as I would anyone else, in a calm and drama free way - I really don't like drama :-\

I am not sure if the death of his parents affected his progress through MLC – he hit the wall at the 4 years BD mark around the time that OW went out of the picture so who knows.

I would say that there are no rules when dealing with a MLCer – at least after the beginning.  I believe kindness goes a long way and I also believe that it is remembered (Acorn talked about this on her thread).  If the invite to go for a drink comes then if it’s what you want to do then go and enjoy the contact.  If you are not feeling up to it just say ‘Really sorry, I have something on then – could we catch up another time’. 

MLC is a long process – there are times that they seem to be working their way through it but also times that they seem to coast, as if they are catching their breath for the next onslaught on emotions they have to work through.   I think you just have keep on doing your thing for you, not put any pressure on him and not ask any questions – reading your thread you seem to do this.  This won’t bring them home - and lets face it if they eventually decide that they do want to come home you may have decided that its not what you want – but at least you will know that you acted out of love and compassion and behaved with dignity and grace – and I am convinced that this will be remembered.

Take care
Enyo X

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Re: Get Through Today
#77: January 22, 2020, 09:56:53 AM
but at least you will know that you acted out of love and compassion and behaved with dignity and grace – and I am convinced that this will be remembered.


I wholeheartedly agree. Love and kindness are never wasted. And truly, when one is a compassionate person, that does come back in one way or another. Who knows where H is in his journey. I like what Enyo said about taking a breath after doing some "emotional work" by the MLCer. I've noticed my H doing that same thing. After a "breakthrough" of sorts, he often retreats.  Really, the best thing here is to have no expectations, b/c they all travel this in their own time.

My MIL is also not emotionally available. And her love is extremely conditional. H hasn't really spoken with his parents for a very long time. I do wonder if they will eventually see that this is where their issues started. Who knows. I am hoping for the best for you and H as you navigate this difficult time.
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Re: Get Through Today
#78: January 23, 2020, 04:25:28 AM
Hello everyone...I'm so grateful for your comments and support. Thank you for taking the time...

Treasur, yes "quiet love" is a great phrase and I think I've been doing that without naming it. Thank you. It's just difficult when something that was once shared and joyful and mutual is now so seemingly onesided - but love him I do...yes, quietly at the moment.

Rose, thank you as always. Yes, the funeral is yet to come [nobody is looking forward to it of course]. MiL still not really engaged in the organisation of it but getting better]. I looked at the thread you mentioned but it refers to the passing of forum members but thank you for the thought.

Sunandshade, thank you. Natural compassion is hard to show sometimes, to someone who's behaved so appallingly, isn't it? If the process is to be believed though, he's going through something far worse than me. I have to remind myself of this sometimes. Time will tell if this event impacts my H in the same way as yours - it's always good to read a reconnection story[however tentative]. Hugs to you on your journey.

Enyo, your experience just shows how long it all takes...even after big, difficult events like this. Your describing of them catching their breath is very powerful. If you think how the death of loved ones affects us non MLCers and how we have good days and bad days following [for some time], it makes sense to think of an emotionally turmoiled MLCer to take longer still. You're right, I don't question or bring up any "r" talks or anything - I just take him as he comes, in whatever form that is. I find I can do that quite easily now without it being too stressful. I do monkey brain sometimes [I'm human!] but I get over it quicker. He remains the scared cat up the tree. I know he won't come down if I stand at the bottom and bark at him.

KiT, thank you. Agree 100% that love and kindness are never wasted. I try to treat others as I would hope to be treated. Whatever happens, I want to come out of this with my head held high if I can, even though my heart may be severely cracked. I am SURE that my H's approaches through these tough weeks are as a result of previous kindness shown to him before. If I'd lost it with him [and I did a couple of times. Human. Normal. I'm over it] lots and lots, I doubt he'd feel safe to talk to me now.

Thank you all. So much.

Last night, I was driving home lateish for me [he knew I was out] and he rang to chat to me while I was in the car. That's another tiny change in him....toward something like the man I married. He hasn't done that for...well I can't remember...months. Actually probably years.

I am aware through all of this, and especially after reading Enyo's and Sunandshade's experiences, that H's MLC still has a lot of life in it and this is a looooooonnnnnnnggggg road, even from this viewpoint approaching the 4 year mark in April. I'm also aware that he may come through this and still not want our marriage. I am standing though, so I hope for the best in everything and everyone...while planning for the tough stuff!

Hugs all. I'll keep you posted.
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Re: Get Through Today
#79: February 25, 2020, 03:20:27 AM
Hello everyone
Just thought I'd share an update as H has revealed a little of what he's been thinking and it might help others to read. IDK...
Anyway, quick recap. H's father died suddenly in January. MiL had a bad cold that week and, with grief and shock added in, was really quite poorly. We were quite worried about her but she came through. As it turned out with MiL's illness and one thing and another, H and I pretty much organised the funeral ourselves. All the meetings you have to have and the decisions to be made etc were made by H and me.
So lots of contact from H. Lots of time together. He was much more "huggy", even held my hand a few times [was very tactile on the day of the funeral - hand holding etc]. Introduced me as his wife [I thought he'd forgotten the word "wife"!!  ::)] . Since the funeral, H has spent a couple of nights with his Mum. He usually asks if I'll visit [usually with S] and have dinner with them. He's done this 3 times now and each time has called me when I got home or was driving home and chatted with me...you know like an H would call his W when away from home. He never normally calls me from wherever it is he's living. He usually calls during the day or when he's somewhere else [if at all].

He said he wanted to talk to me about losing his Dad but, no surprise to reveal that he hasn't mentioned this again!
Anyway, in one exchange of messages, I told him about a conversation I'd had with his Mum [his relationship with her is at the heart of his FOO issues I believe] and she said how proud she was of him. We have looked through lots of family photos [we put a book of remembrance together for the wake] and he said "I'm aware I have some sort of issue that has been with me a long time. I clearly did some fab stuff and experienced many things that were positive but something has stopped me from being in the moment so I've missed the here and now. That's why I look at so many pictures and cannot recall being there at all. I'm so sad about that and the other ways it's affected me. I'm glad to have spent that short amount of time with Dad that I did [he didn't really visit them at all over the last 2 years. Occasional family lunches is all] and can get to know Mum a little better now too"

I felt very sad reading that. There are hundreds and hundreds of photos of family adventures. All sorts of stuff they did together when he was a child. It's sad that he can't currently recall any of that, isn't it?
Other than this, I know he's not [or at least wasn't for weeks] sleeping well. He still comes across as a bit of a [insert rude word of choice] so the alien invader still has some control. He's been MUCH more communicative with his Mother, sister and brother lately. He's been ok with the kids for a while and I can't tell from my viewpoint how their relationships are with him. S particularly is still quite scathing of H's comms with him.

Nothing much has changed with regards to his relationship with me - or at least, it perhaps changed a bit for a few weeks there but has gone back to where we were. Usually get a message from him each weekday. Despite the many extra hugs [with two arms not the hateful one armed type] and clearly needing me to be around for a lot of this, there has been nothing else and, on the outside at least, he remains as distant as before.

I've thought a lot about what Enyo wrote - about the time, after her H lost his parents, that it took him to even begin to communicate better with her and their sons.

I'm going to be honest and have been a bit frustrated with him and his constant mood changes. Not even sure that it's "moods" per se - sometimes it feels like personality changes. I need to think about this and remember not to react to him as I believe he doesn't know he's doing it. He forgets to tell us of changes of plan and things [all usual MLC stuff] and it's frustrated me a couple of times. I need to be calm and remember that this will take as long as it takes. I think, when he was so much more like the man I married for those weeks around the funeral, that I had expectations of "better" and of course, I was wrong. My error, darn it. I'm a little cross at myself but doubtless it won't mean much in the grand scheme.

So it's back to quiet love. Support. Getting on. I would rather be me than my shell of an MLCer H who can't remember the fun and love from all those photos.
 
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Re: Get Through Today
#80: February 25, 2020, 03:42:42 AM
Hi Music,

Interesting update... Sounds like the passing of H's F has shaken the tree a bit but it is taking time for the nuts to fall out... And, it sounds as if he is having some insight into his past.

Did he react at all to the revelation that his M told you how proud she was of him?
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Re: Get Through Today
#81: February 25, 2020, 03:45:11 AM
Ah, those darned expectations and frustrations lol. So normal in RL, so unhelpful in this not so normal right?

A lot of folks have posted about these patches when you seem to get a taste of something close to the original and/or a reminder of the reality of their internal mess.....a tiny bubble of expectation of something, some kind of shift maybe....and then poof. Must be hard. One of the few times I feel grateful to have had a vanisher tbh. Bc I suppose you have to do a kind of internal reset again. Please don't be cross with yourself though, it's normal and you didn't let your expectations draw you to do anything which added more mess did you? That's more than good enough surely.
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
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#82: February 25, 2020, 03:55:52 AM
Hey Ursa - good way to put it about shaking the nuts from the tree, lol! Lots of nuts around here but none on the floor! Ha! His reaction was something along the lines of "that's lovely to hear" and then the message I relayed above. I remember thinking at the time that I must remember to say or pass on nice things to him or compliment him as he does [or did] respond to that. I got several messages after that on the same day. I need to remember this, I think - not to just respond to him which I usually do but to occasionally, on merit, say something good first.

Thanks Treasur, I'm over it now and you're spot on: no more mess added so that's good, yes. Thank you for reminding me.
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Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
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#83: April 05, 2020, 03:56:29 AM
Hope you are getting on ok Music.

How is lockdown? Is it you and the kids?

Stay well
Rose 🌹
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BD3 - Sept 2019
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#84: April 05, 2020, 04:10:22 AM
Hello Rose, yes me and the kids. One furloughed from work, the other home from Uni. All well so far.
Lovely to hear from you.

I'll update while I'm here. Any movement I thought H was making around the time of his Father's funeral has slowed then stopped it seems. He was definitely different. More in touch with his Mum (staying with her once a week which of course has had to stop), more in touch with his sister etc.
He has been very busy at work. Setting people up to work from home and monitoring systems etc. He's never really contacted me from wherever he's living. If he called it was always from work, the car or his Mums so now he's at "home" he doesn't call. I still get messages from him via WhatsApp but little else.
Maybe Coronavirus has saved me from what was going to be a touch and go. Certainly feels like it.
He is being considerate to a degree. He's dropped off some bits we needed etc. He checks in with the kids regularly with calls and messages. He's worried about getting ill and the arrogance of earlier MLC times has faded.
Coming up on 4 years this month.

Stay well all x
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Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
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#85: April 05, 2020, 05:09:27 AM
Good to hear from you music, glad you are all ok. Coronavirus has mellowed it seems some mlc a little bit but from what I have read on other feeds, many are still in the tunnel. Only further along the lock downs will we know if there is any movement I think.
Stay safe xx
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H53
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Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Finances Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang for 3 yrs now Vanisher but  twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

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#86: April 06, 2020, 12:49:02 PM
I'll be 4 years in May. I think many of them start to really question what they are doing, realizing they have not found that elusive "happiness" they thought they were running toward, leading to T&Gs.

Checking in with the kids regularly is also movement.

Hang in there friend. I am glad you have your kids there with you. That does make this situation so much better.

Happy to hear you are staying healthy.
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#87: April 07, 2020, 01:39:20 PM
Thanks Rising. Thanks KiT. A lot to think on...again!

Meanwhile today I had a breakthrough. In the last 4 years, I've lost H to his MLC, my two beloved doggos, my job and my lovely FiL.
Well today I won one back. I was offered a great job having been interviewed on video call...strange times. Anyway...am over the moon.
I came home and told the kids. I told my brother....yet I haven't told H yet. I had a message from him earlier but it was something and nothing and I thought...he's really not that bothered about me right now so I havent told him yet (and I'm off to bed). There was a time I'd have told him all about it and he'd be the first to know...well I shared nothing...not the application, interview or yet: the news.
Strange and sad times.
But I got the job! Finally a win...share a bit of it with me...we deserve it!
Stay safe x
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Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
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#88: April 07, 2020, 01:42:23 PM
Yay Music!! Congrats. That must feel so good. And to get a new job in this environment? Super impressive.

Celebrate tonight with your lovely family. A big win indeed!
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#89: April 07, 2020, 02:36:37 PM
Fantastic news, Music! Well done, you obviously wowed them!
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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#90: April 07, 2020, 02:58:00 PM
Congratulations and I hope only the best for you!

(((Hugs))) and more (((Hugs)))

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#91: April 07, 2020, 09:12:50 PM
Congratulations music in your new job. You deserve it. Fabulous news xx
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H53
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Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Finances Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang for 3 yrs now Vanisher but  twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

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#92: April 08, 2020, 12:58:44 AM
VERY impressed! To score that win in this environment is a BIG deal. Congratulations!  It is a bit of a head-shaker that the first person we'd have told previously becomes one of the last to know, (if they ever were to find out at all).....

I'm in a similar situation because of a merger - position with real personnel authority but xW knows nothing about it and it doesn't concern her anymore...
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#93: April 08, 2020, 05:15:10 AM
Great news Music especially at the moment.

If I was picking I would also give you the job so they sound very wise!

Hooray
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#94: April 11, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
Thank you so much everyone. Your good wishes mean a lot. Good news for you too Ursa. Delighted for you.
Still havent told H my good news. Extraordinary.
He has properly withdrawn. I spoke to MiL today and she clearly hasn't heard much from him either.
I had a very down day about it on Friday but I'm ok now.
Hugs all. Stay well.

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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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#95: April 12, 2020, 10:42:28 PM
Congratulations on the new job Music! Here's hoping it's the start of a long streak of #winning.
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Together 28 years, married 27. Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA  |  BD #2: 2018 - FA

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W asks for divorce - August 2019 | Divorce final - September 2019 | Moving on

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

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#96: July 19, 2020, 01:08:14 PM
Hello everyone. Hope you're as ok as can  be.
I've been keeping up to date with posts but thought I hadn't updated for a while so felt I should.

By many measures, I havent much to report....but something in H is different. Something definitely changed somehow when his Dad died. He got into the habit of staying with his Mum once a week and would call me at bedtime etc. So more contact and more like "husband" behaviour.
Then lockdown. Off he went again for a while there. Less contact.
Then last 2 months or so, more contact again.
Since I got my new job, he calls me most days while I'm driving to work. He often calls at the end of the day too. He's been over to the house and gone lots of practical things and is a lot more interested in household jobs/maintenance etc. Given that this all stopped for a good year or so, that's a change.
He's counted us as his "bubble" I think and, given that he's very anti mixing with the public cos of Covid 19, I think he's mixed only with us and not with OW. He's also been here for a few hours most weekends. Again, a change, as he used to go off the radar completely at weekends with me. This said, I'm realistic and he could be very much still with her - odd sort of relationship but then he's in MLC so it may make perfect sense to them. Whatever.

I take this contact at face value only. I know it might stop as unexpectedly as it began. I read Acorn (I think) on someone else's thread saying that she mirrors H's behaviour and I try and do the same. I don't initiate much contact but respond in kind, when he does.
Interestingly, despite this change in contact, when we see H, he's still "odd". Not the H I married. Still always up and cheerful yet oddly inauthentic. That thing you get from MLCers that is unlike anyone else.
Still terrible at remembering things. Regularly not sleeping well he says. Asks my opinion on a range of things but, unlike Keeping It Together's H, not any kind of whisper of regret or affection. All I've had is an occasional two arm hug instead of the one armed bandit hug of the past 2 years.

So...what do you think? Movement? Elongated touch and go?

Whatever it is, I'll just keep on keeping on. I miss him and our relationship terribly but I find I can cope. I work and I parent. I miss being a partner but I'm ok.

Hugs all
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BD: April 2016
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Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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#97: July 22, 2020, 02:11:54 PM
Music lovely to hear your update.

My mind is so perplexed with all of this I am not much use trying to answer you.

He did used to call you every night I remember that, then he went overseas with OW I think and you told him that changes things and so he stopped those late night messages.

His Dad dying does seem to have jolted him, who knows how much yet.

Those messages are keeping you on his rollercoaster somewhat. It’s a tricky balance.

We have always been alike you and I and at this point we have heard almost zero from my H for 4 months and I feel much less that I am sitting with him on a rollercoaster if that makes any sense at all.

I’m really tired but did want to answer you so you it makes some sense. Xx
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
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Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#98: July 23, 2020, 09:11:48 AM
So good to hear from you, Rose. I've been wondering how you are. You're right, I've seen some of this behaviour before from H...not the phone calls so much. I know what you mean about keeping on the rollercoaster but I'm ok with it all. His shenanigans don't bother me so much now - I just take each day as it comes where he's concerned. Thanks for flagging though, it's good to have your perspective.

As for your H. He was also a clinger wasn't he? So 4 months is a long time to hear barely anything from him - I'm sorry to read that but it seems to fit the "pattern" that even clingers have these periods I think? I'm sorry though...for you and for the family. Shows how mixed up they are. Must be very hard. Ties in with Coronavirus too doesn't it?
Thanks for posting. I hope you're ok.
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BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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#99: July 23, 2020, 09:33:39 AM
Hi Music. Nice to hear from you. In my opinion, seems like anytime they "change" it is movement. Whether the change is good or bad, just more evidence they are still processing. I like that you take it at face value b/c as quickly as he changes to more contact, he might change to less. I think mine is more of a clinging boomerang. Huge T&G in June, and now has dropped off all contact almost completely--with both me and S13. I did establish some boundaries which I am sure he is not too happy with but it is for my own sanity. And he is likely licking his wounds with OW now. She seems to be ok with having a partial person as her "man." And frankly, she can have him.

I hear you on missing being a partner. Me too. But I have to remind myself that my H isn't much of a partner now. Perhaps logistically maybe? ie: helping with chores and errands? But emotionally and mentally, he is pretty vapid currently. And that cannot be easy to deal with. Thankfully I don't b/c it is exhausting.  How are the conversations with your H? Do you find them exhilarating or exhausting? Or none of the above?

You sound really good Music. Keep going.
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#100: July 26, 2020, 10:05:12 AM
Thanks Kit.
You're right of course- he's not someone I'd choose to be with right now. He's still so arrogant and he absolutely was not that. Though it's all a mask and I got to see that - he had a big presentation at work (over Zoom!!) and had to prepare a lot for it. I offered a pleasantry along the lines of "you'll be great" and he brushed that off, saying he'd be fine. There was nothing for him to worry about. Really H? Few days later and he messages to say he's feeling nervous about this presentation now!!! So I challenged that and said that as he'd been so belligerent about it, I was surprised at his concern. He admitted he'd been wrong to say he wasn't worried. Good grief!!
Re communication with him, I get more normal - or should I say normal to me- H on messages but on the phone or face to face: Boom! Shields up No.1.
He's more MLC-ish. Odd.
I'm glad he's more in contact, to answer your question, Kit. Exhilarating like when we first got together? Nope. Exhausting? Nope. Can't say that. Though I find I'm on my guard mostly...but I can deal with that. At the moment anyway.
What I can't see is how he'll get from this place on his journey to any sort of reconciliation. He seems "set". But who knows??? If you'd said a year ago that he'd be coming round more etc. I'd have doubted it very much so who knows?

Anyway, as always, thanks so much for your support.
Big hugs.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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#101: August 11, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
Hello
I sort of have a question here or if you have any thoughts or experience on this one.
My H continues his snail's pace journey through MLC land. He's been pretty consistent with calls and visits for the last few weeks now.
Recently, long story short, we've been working to help adult S with a few issues. S is now seeing a counsellor and is benefiting from that. For a number of reasons my H thinks S might be undiagnosed ADD and, from the reading he's shared and other things, he may be right.
This is not my S's story so I'll leave it there.
H told me today that, as he's been researching, he's wondering if he too might be ADD. He hasn't told me why specifically, only that he recognizes some of the markers in himself and says "it would explain a lot of behaviours that frankly I don't want to live with anymore". Ok H
While I see several things that might link S to ADD, I cannot make the same connections for H....at least certainly not to pre MLC H. I'm wondering if he's searching for answers to his MLC self and behaviours and seeing some ADD characteristics like terrible memory, difficulty staying focused and others and thinking he's found an answer.
I can honestly say that nothing in his pre MLC behaviour gave me any reason to think he's undiagnosed - whereas there's long been a feeling with S that we were missing some key that would help him.
I've tried not to ramble here but I'd be really interested in what you think. It's difficult to talk to H because well MLC and he says he'll get himself tested.
Anyone got any thoughts?
Thank you.
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BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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#102: August 12, 2020, 01:31:53 PM
Hello,

Regardless of whether or not he is ADD or ADHD, the item to note is that your H sees something wrong within him. This means he is looking inward for the source of his pain rather than projecting outwardly at those around him.

I hope all goes well with him and especially your son,

(((((Hugs)))) and more ((((Hugs))))

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#103: August 14, 2020, 12:33:40 PM
Thanks Ready. That's a very good point.
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BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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#104: August 14, 2020, 04:32:28 PM
Thanks Ready. That's a very good point.

I agree, very good point Ready.
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#105: August 18, 2020, 03:58:38 PM
Hi Music, I agree with Ready in that your H seems to realize that there's something wrong with him, although it's probably not ADD or ADHD. Maybe these are just two terms he's familiar with. Maybe he knows nothing about MLC, as most of us didn't either when all this started, or landed on us. I think this is a good thing, a bit like the LBS who starts searching for answers to herself after BD. Hope he keeps at it.
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#106: August 19, 2020, 06:31:46 AM
Hi music,

interesting that H sees there is something about his processing that is unusual, this must be a good sign that denial and blame are not his only responses to this awful crisis.

 I chime in here only because I work with young people who have behavioural and social issues and have been involved in diagnosing ADD/ADHD for two decades.  I would say that self diagnosis is never accurate, particularly when identifying markers from a list.  Nearly everyone ticks some boxes for ADD at some point in their life, even if it just on their wedding day or before a big job interview.

 To accurately assess cognitive patterns requires a very strict, formal testing process that requires others to describe the regularity of behaviours on 100+ scenarios, (at least here in UK).  Even if the correlation is strong across all respondents it requires expert interpretation about what is a brain function and what is a function of personality and environment. 

It is not always useful for anyone to have the label, particularly when you are an adult, but to examine thought processes and reactions to stress is extremely valuable for anyone.  I hope your H continues to show curiosity about his processing - this can only be good for you both.

LW
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#107: August 20, 2020, 11:34:19 AM
Thanks Rose,  Milly and LW.
I appreciate your thoughts very much.
LW thanks for sharing your insight and experience. To be fair, I think from the little that he's told me, H isn't self diagnosing but has researched this and has sought advice but...he's having a MLC so the advice might be coming from Kermit the Frog.
As for labels, I agree 1000%. S has been having some issues and we're trying to work out how best to help him.
As I don't believe H has any concept of a midlife crisis as we understand it here (thinking as I did, before he went into one, that it was a jokey thing about a sports car and a leather jacket), it'll be interesting to see what he makes of his research and where it leads him.
As you've all said, inward looking questioning is better than shouting at the moon.

Hugs all.
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BD: April 2016
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Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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#108: August 20, 2020, 03:12:47 PM
Music, there's not much we can tell you that you don't seem to already know yourself. You have a good head on your shoulders. Talking about the little we knew about MLC before BD, except for the jokey sport's car and leather jacket, reading your words reminded me that my H also had the sport's car and leather jacket. He had a short, soft brown leather jacket that looked like it cost a lot and would be beautiful on a 30 year old man, or better, on a woman. So the clichés are also true and part of the crisis. Shame nothing is said about the other stuff, which is the worst part.
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OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Get Through Today
#109: October 18, 2020, 10:59:52 AM
Hello. I hope everyone is keeping well in these trying times.
I thought I'd journal as I haven't updated in a while.

H has become a regular visitor. He spends Saturdays with us and has done for a few months now. He also comes over one evening a week and occasionally at other times.
How does this play out re his past MLC shenanigans?
He's decided on some house projects and is working through them. He's ordered materials and done work - last couple of years could barely spend 10 minutes in the house.
- he's being an active parent. Is helping D learn to drive. Spending time with S on hobbies. Listens to them. Counsels them. This after sitting on our bed not long after BD and saying "I can't do any more for them. They'll be what they'll be" (one of the flags that got me thinking something was very off with him)
- he speaks to his Mum every day. Visits occasionally though she's shielding so it's difficult. Last two years, barely had anything to do with them. We lost his Dad in January.
- active interest in my work now.
- we recently got a new puppy having lost our old doggo last year. He's very engaged with this and came with us on a lengthy round trip to pick him up. Was very helpful.
So all that's going on. No R talks. Some "remember whens..." from him but nothing remotely even hinted at re us as a couple. Still a bit of a mask on. Still sounds and acts a bit off. Has to be busy, busy, busy.

There was a thing the other night when he was over for dinner. A guy he's worked with since BD and who's become a bit of a mate called. I know of this guy but haven't met him. The OW has though. H politely explained that he was having dinner with his son and daughter so couldn't chat - that he would call back. I was sitting next to him on the sofa, in my home and he didn't mention me. I was a little upset at this (though I know I don't know the guy, it felt off to be ignored while I was sitting right there). I didn't say anything. Just thought I'd try and rise above. However D and S clocked it and felt the same - so challenged him on it while washing up. He came back to me and apologised. I believe it was genuinely heartfelt - said he didn't think. He didn't mean anything by it and was sorry I was upset. I let him have a couple of truth bombs and made him aware I know she's met the guy. He had the grace to look mortified and said "I'm trying so hard to be better".

So that's the state of play. This extra contact has crept up on me but as I write and look back, I see the movement in him....albeit ever so slowwwwwwwwwlyyyyy.

Puppy is great. Life not bad generally otherwise - though this virus is getting to me a bit.

Hugs all.
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Re: Get Through Today
#110: October 19, 2020, 03:47:37 AM
This is sounding very positive Music45.

It certainly bears the hallmarks of early reconnection. 

Having been and still there though - my advice is this. Treat the times he is there lightly, brightly and authentically. 

If he is coming round just once a week reduce any expectations you may have for longer stints until they appear organically.

What I have found is that reconnection is painfully slow to the point of agonising whether it's even worth it. 

From my experience the MLCer will do the right things and then require a breather.  My H lives at home so I see this so often - what works for you though is that your MLCer lives away for most days of the week and so the time you do have can begin to have quality.

No expectations and no demands are the order of the day thus far.

Good one !
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#111: October 19, 2020, 12:38:54 PM
Thanks so much Song.
Slow is right and yes, it seems he does exactly as you describe...can be here a bit then retreats.
Thank you for your wise words.
He came over today out of the blue. He messaged to offer to pick D up from work. I said no problem. Then he called to see if he could come over earlier then go get her (as he had a conference call to be on). He must have  called en route, as he almost immediately turned up. Then he stayed a bit and even stayed for dinner. He never stays late and I find it quite easy to not push or try and cajole him in any way... I just pick up on his cues if you like. I'm not being a pushover, just treating him like I would my brother or his sister if they popped round.

Hate it when he leaves. Hate it. But I just smile, return the hug if one is offered and get on with it.

Right now, he seems happy with this arrangement. Like he's ok with our relationship as it is and doesn't want more. Ah well.

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#112: October 19, 2020, 03:59:22 PM
This all sounds really good Music. And you are handling it se well.  It is quite agonizing isn't it? having them home seemingly "normal" only to then leave and go do who-knows-what. This is the challenging part. But it seems like he is moving closer, albeit at a snail's (or MLCer's)  pace. Wishing you continued strength and peace.
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#113: October 21, 2020, 11:50:40 PM
Thanks KiT. Agonizing is the right word, definitely.

Got another insight into my MLCer's world today.
Ever have a feeling you're going to get some news before you get it? I did yesterday then he sits down when he's here and says "can I tell you about something going on with me at the moment". Brain is screaming "Brace! Brave! Brace!" But managed to say just "yes, ok".

Long story short: he's moving to a new place this week. He has been living somewhere that OW was paying for and he was paying her rent. He told me last night that he hopes this new place (in a holiday destination near here) will be somewhere we can all use together in the future. He's loved coming to the house more. The relationships with S&D and with me are very important to him. This will be his own place that will give him the "me" time he needs.
He also said that he stays in a motel when "she wants to use it" i.e the rental place he's in currently. I suppose I should have asked him why? Is their relationship over? But I admit I find it very difficult to bring her up in conversation.
He asked me if I'd go and see this new place he's got. I said I'd have to think about that. I've not been offered (or would have accepted) an invitation to the OW related place. So I'm wondering if this means no OW now.
He then said a lot of stuff about processing his Dad's death. That he wasnt feeling grief the way he thought he would (I said I think grieving is a very personal thing and different for everyone). He said maybe once he had moved, he would get some counselling. We talked about this some more and I said that when his Dad died, his head was a bit all over the place (meaning MLC but not saying it) and that might have an impact. That grief has a habit of coming up and getting you when you might not expect it to.
After more discussion, I suggested he speak to the counsellor who he's spoken to before (during one of his false returns way back and before he went back into the fog and announced counselling wouldn't help).
He messaged me after he left to say he'd texted her already.
So not sure what to make of all this. Clearly some movement along that tunnel but still very much wanting to be on his own?
Maybe the counselling will help unravel that big ball of wool in his head and help him with more than his Dad's death.
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Re: Get Through Today
#114: October 22, 2020, 01:31:00 AM
Quote
Long story short: he's moving to a new place this week. He has been living somewhere that OW was paying for and he was paying her rent. He told me last night that he hopes this new place (in a holiday destination near here) will be somewhere we can all use together in the future. He's loved coming to the house more. The relationships with S&D and with me are very important to him. Long story short: he's moving to a new place this week. He has been living somewhere that OW was paying for and he was paying her rent. He told me last night that he hopes this new place (in a holiday destination near here) will be somewhere we can all use together in the future. He's loved coming to the house more. The relationships with S&D and with me are very important to him. This will be his own place that will give him the "me" time he needs.
He also said that he stays in a motel when "she wants to use it" i.e the rental place he's in currently. I suppose I should have asked him why? Is their relationship over? But I admit I find it very difficult to bring her up in conversation.
He asked me if I'd go and see this new place he's got. I said I'd have to think about that. I've not been offered (or would have accepted) an invitation to the OW related place. So I'm wondering if this means no OW now.
He also said that he stays in a motel when "she wants to use it" i.e the rental place he's in currently. I suppose I should have asked him why? Is their relationship over? But I admit I find it very difficult to bring her up in conversation.
He asked me if I'd go and see this new place he's got. I said I'd have to think about that. I've not been offered (or would have accepted) an invitation to the OW related place. So I'm wondering if this means no OW now.

In reverse - no it doesn't mean there is no OW anymore.  Any contact he has with her means she is still in play and may still be on hold.

I would refuse to go and see it if I were you because what you are doing is endorsing his behaviour. YOu are saying it is ok for him to live in OW's place (even if he is on his own - which I doubt) and that means he is getting your approval for his behaviour.  It is a typical "pity me I'm doing what I can but I am the victim here" approach that many MLCers take.  Please don't feed it.
You can simply say " No I don't want to see where you live because it is owned by OW and because you are still in contact with her. Whilst you continue to see her even in a tenant/landlord capacity it is not appropriate for me to endorse what you are doing"

I'm sorry but this is typical MLC behaviour - he wants to maintain the relationship with his children (which on one hand is good but on the other very confusing for them) 
He also wants to keep the anchor checking in place with you.

I hate to say this especially as you may be in the stages of early reconnection but MLCers will continue to manipulate and lie even when it seems they are moving forward out of the tunnel. 

This is what should keep you distanced and keep your contact with him just to the current arrangement - he has to make the choice to step out completely on his own and completely free from any connection with OW before you can morally or emotionally support where he lives.

Sorry to seem harsh but I can see an MLC fishing line reeling you in and setting your present situation back as it will increase your expectations and also your disappointments.
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#115: October 22, 2020, 01:34:59 AM
Thank you for that Song. You're absolutely right. I've had nothing to do with the place he is currently in.because there's an OW link.
I probably didn't make myself clear - I don't know if the new place includes her in any way. I didnt ask him outright. I should have. I will.

Thanks for grounding me. Until he's OW free, I'm not interested.
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Re: Get Through Today
#116: October 22, 2020, 02:29:44 AM
Quote
I don't know if the new place includes her in any way. I didnt ask him outright. I should have. I will.

Why would you need to ask? I suggest that next time he asks just mention the boundary that whilst he is connected with her etc... and see what response emerges.

If you ask him outright you may not get a truthful answer and it may cause you more angst than him.

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Re: Get Through Today
#117: October 29, 2020, 05:37:52 AM
Music, it does sound like your H is inching closer. He seems to be thinking about stuff, his father's death, maybe his choice to go live with OW. It's possible he's had a bit of an awakening, or at least one or two of them. He seems to realize he needs to distance himself from the OW, and has put that into action by getting a place on his own. He also seems to realize that his head and feelings are not quite right and that he needs professional help, then he carried through with the action of booking himself an appointment. I do believe he's starting to see some light and is probably in a further stage of his crisis. Can always go right back and try all the Replay fun again as you know, but still, I do sense movement. You are doing so well at being patient around him. I bet it must be so hard to keep your emotions grounded. Hoping things keep improving.
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#118: January 23, 2021, 02:11:38 PM
Thought I'd update as it's been a little while.

H has continued to visit regularly. He now routinely spends every Saturday with us and one day during the week he works from here. He stays for dinner and we see him at other times too.
He's doing a lot round the house and has plans for work he wants to do.
He's been much more communicative with S& D.
S continues to have some issues he's working through with a counsellor and H has been v supportive with that.

H has moved into his own place. He's told me that the relationship with OW is over by his choice.

He's been zooming his counsellor again a couple of times. First time in 3 years.

He talks about his father a lot and the impact of his passing - it was the 1st anniversary recently. He admitted that he no longer feels he "has to live up to" his Dad now that he's gone. Can be himself. His Dad was not the foo problem but clearly something has clicked somewhere inside him.

He rings me twice a day and messages often.
Absolutely no hint of r talk. Lots of vague talk about things we'll do in the future but no hint of any talk about our marriage.
He spent his birthday and Christmas with us. First time in 3 years.

I'm fine with all this. I'm just working and doing me (as much as any of us are in a pandemic lockdown). I rarely initiate contact with him first and remain neutral when he talls about how "we could go there" etc.
I figure that my stand (thanks to this forum and the main site) has got me this far so I'll see where it goes.
I do find it odd - all this "family" time yet he's not here. It's agonisingly slow. Coming up.on 5 years since BD now.
I suppose I didnt really notice him getting closer to us so his getting closer to me may also be stealthily done if at all. He clearly still has things to process.

Above all I remain wary. He false returned several times in the first 18 months or so and I won't be fooled again. Maybe he thinks this is his life now, bit of time here. Bit of time there. Well that won't work for me forever.
Anyway, thanks for reading.
Keep well.
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#119: January 23, 2021, 03:34:32 PM
Sounding very positive Music.  Slow and steady wins the race  ;D

Unless you have seen no movement whatsoever in a long period, I would suspect that it's not how he wants things forever.  Especially since there is future talk.  Is it possible that he might be frightened of another false return too? I think hurting anyone is the last thing they really want to do as they are coming out of this and they don't yet have the confidence in themselves to make promises (in action also) they are not sure they can keep.  He probably also recognises that you might not have another false return left in you.  You are cool as a cucumber right now and that is a self assured chicky indeed - even if you don't feel like it on the inside all the time.  That would be a scary (in a good way) proposition for a flimsy MLCer.
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#120: January 24, 2021, 06:23:54 PM
Good to hear from you Music. You sound really calm, healthy and realistic.

Five years! Even though our spouses took very different trajectories I'm there with you in the class of 2016. Half a decade of this.  ::)
Quote
Unless you have seen no movement whatsoever in a long period, I would suspect that it's not how he wants things forever.  Especially since there is future talk.
I suspect hopeandfaith is right about this. I think it's positive that he's at least making some efforts to work on himself. But you know all about MLCers and expectations.

I have to tell you that I'm super-impressed with your patience. Bravo Music!
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Together 28 years, married 27. Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA  |  BD #2: 2018 - FA

W moved out - June 2019 | OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019 | Divorce final - September 2019 | Moving on

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

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#121: July 29, 2021, 01:21:40 PM
Hello
I haven't updated my thread for ages though I have been coming back and trying to keep up to date with people's stories.

I suppose I haven't updated mine because I felt I hadn't much to say. In truth there was probably a lot but in the grand scheme of MLC it's not much.

I'll try and update...

H has been coming to the house consistently all this year.
Back to phoning me a couple of times a day - including last thing at night.
Included me in planning things for the future - nothing much but small ideas of things to do.
Even held my hand once or twice on dog walks.
Nothing from me: no pressure. Just taking what I get from him. No R talks.

In late Spring, his Mum had a week in hospital. She is fine now (at 83) but it was a scare.

Since then H has been distancing himself again....albeit slowly. Still here a lot. Still calling.
But little things like not inviting me or S&D to his place (we'd visited a couple of times - not far away and in a lovely spot. He'd told me he'd like the family to use it together)

Anyway...since May ish he's been ever so slowwwwwwly backing off like I say. Hard to explain but it was there. He told me back end of last year that the a with OW was over. I believed him because of his behaviour- here a lot etc.

Last couple of weeks he's retracted more.

Tonight I finally said something. Asked him about this. Asked him if he was back in touch with OW.
This was always a boundary for me - contact with her meant none with me. He knew this.
Tonight I get "I'm in touch with her because she's a friend but we're not in a relationship."
Long story short: he wants off again. He wants to do his own thing - though he "loves seeing everyone". He hasn't led me on he says. He enjoyed seeing us/me at his place but he now realises he just wants to be on his own. Doesn't want "what we had"

The added stress here is that S&D are looking to move into their own places- so H says this will be a cue for him to go off and explore. Since covid he can work from home so can go where he likes.

I have said then that he has to let me go. I cant be his friend if he wants her in his life too. "Ring her last thing at night" then I said.
He says he never promised me anything - and that's true. Nor have I asked him about our relationship or asked him to come home.

I feel bomb dropped again. I'm now doing that thing of questioning if he'll ever come through this. I thought he was through the worst of it - 6 months of pretty regular behaviour- right up until his Mum got ill then ***boom***.
He's admitted that he changed when his Dad got I'll and subsequently passed away. He says his Mum's illness was frightening. I suppose he's just running again from it all. He says he's tried to find medical reasons why he's like this (but can't. Says his brain can't settle on anything)

I don't know what to do. So I'll do nothing.
Why did he  consistently call me every night at bedtime if he wasn't connected to me. He had stopped that for 18 months plus in the middle of this mess and it was him that started it up again. "I want us to be friends- that's very important to me" he said.

His words are one thing but his actions have been another and now I feel like this is never going to end and that standing is a waste of time.

I could do with some wise words if you have a moment.

x
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Re: Get Through Today
#122: July 29, 2021, 01:31:08 PM
Big hugs.  I personally think it's better, even though it does feel like another BD (and I remember that feeling), to know where it stands versus investing even more time and emotion and still getting this same result on down the road. It hurts today, but you'll bounce back quicker.

None of us know what the future will hold. Likely he's now BD'ing again not because he's necessarily going to become some sort of 'free explorer' once your kids have their own places, but because your question put him in a position of losing the control he had to cake-eat. He knew your boundary, and he was lying by omission. You were in the right to have transparency, even if that's not the answer you wanted to hear.

Time my turn the table again, and it's always up to you what you do with that time. I was sure my xH would come through it, and he's crazier than ever, ten years out.

Just be kind to you in taking time to process this new information and establish what you want your daily life to look like. Self-care always.
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#123: July 29, 2021, 02:49:18 PM
R2T said it better than I ever could, and I wholeheartedly agree - he knew your boundary, he lied by omission, and now that you know, you have to determine what your response will be. Even if the relationship with OW truly is a friendship and nothing more, it’s still an emotional connection with someone with whom he’s already shown he has no boundaries. He’s still handling difficult situations with Escape and Avoid behaviors, and is still in crisis.

He says he didn’t lead you on and didn’t make any promises, and maybe that’s true… but he did violate a boundary you were clear about, and it sounds like you kept your boundary consistent. Please continue to be kind and gentle with yourself, and know that you are navigating this very difficult situation with incredible grace.
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#124: July 29, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Oh Music,

That is really rough..... sorry he acting this way.
So his dad got sick and died and now his mom is sick too? Ughh..... yeah that's another trigger for sure.

There is something that I'm reminded of as I was reading it...... which was something HB wrote..... not saying this is what he's doing (but I've often wondered about what it looks like): She talks about how when they come out, they go back in to "close the door" on all the parts and stages they have already gone thru. They revisit them, resolve them, finish them...... and to the LBS it appears it was all a farce, tricked again.
Not saying this is what he's doing, it just reminded me of that especially with how it feels to you at this juncture.
I think it'd really good you put your foot down, forcing him to confront himself at some level. He's been in there long enough to be pushed a bit (maybe more than a bit).
I wouldn't trust what he says he wants, he still doesn't know. Still fantasy. That line about letting you go..... I'm very proud of you!! Oh that takes guts. I think that can be one of the scariest things for an LBS, and something many of us don't have the guts to carry out: forcing change..... especially since it requires a choice on their part. Never know what they will do...... but absolutely he was cake-eating. Nothing to be ashamed of, or feel bad about.... they all do it, and we let them do it in love and in the hope that time will allow them to make a better decision.
Really, really, good for you. [claps]  8)

Now to see what he does with it. How exciting. Could go either way, or nowhere...... but maybe it does.
I do have a question about you and your current state. When you put your foot down (and after)..... were are you with that? What I mean is: Are you at a moment of peace with it no matter what happens? Are you just wanting it to stop (done)? Just curious were are are in it, or even if you know. You know?  ;)

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#125: July 30, 2021, 12:21:02 AM
I’m sorry that you feel a bit BD’d again, Music. It sounds as if this is his pattern, like ebb and flow, but each cycle is a bit longer ‘visit’ perhaps. I have no idea what that means....gave up my MLC mind reading Hat ages ago lol....but it sounds as if you are tired of it. Only you know how tired and what you want to do, if anything.

Of course he lied by omission bc he knows your boundary. It’s BS to say otherwise....he knew the deal and he broke his half of it. Why? Bc he wants to and thinks he can. And of course understandably you probably let some expectations grow so you feel how you feel. I guess you need to decide if your boundary is still the same and/or what you get from having this visitor in your life. Or if you are prepared to let the ebb and flow go through another cycle. What is doable to you and what is not. I suppose I would just encourage you to look at the situation as it is with a calm clear eye and act in your own best interests, whatever that means to you.

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Re: Get Through Today
#126: July 30, 2021, 01:03:30 AM
Music I am so sorry. Of course you feel BDed again. Because by lying and implicitly leading you on expectations were set up and then they were dashed.

But there are a couple of big differences. Like most of us I assume at BD1 you were completely blindsided. You had no idea about what we call “MLC,” probably that your H could be capable of such things and felt safe. Was any of that true this time around? This is not a challenge, rather a framing. In my opinion where you are now has both the power and advantage that you KNOW what this is, you KNOW what you need to do. Where the first time around its just a matter of trying to figure out what the h**k is going on. So please apply everything you know with a clear eye to this set of events, not through the the lens of “hopes and dreams.” Ask yourself what led you emotionally back to this place. We have to live in reality as it is, not as we want it to be, or we tend to find a lot of pain and discord.

The other thing that may be evident from what has happened: your H is nowhere near recovery from whatever has happened to him internally. Sometimes we think that time is a magic elixir, that just because time is ticking by they must be getting better. Throw that together with some tea leaf reading of behaviour and we see a linear progression or “healing” that may not be there at all. So I guess the question you need to ask yourself is this: what do I want right now, this week, this month, this year? Most likely he is not going to be on any solid footing for a very long time, as others have said what do you intend to do during that time? Because if you accept that your actions aren’t having much impact on his mental state then isn’t it better to spend your time doing things that matter to you and keep you away from potential hurt?
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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#127: July 30, 2021, 06:45:10 AM
I agree with so much great stuff said already. You are so much more prepared this time and, even if it doesn't feel like it, you have the power this time to set your boundary ("You have to let me go") and hold it, with the knowledge you've gained over the past years since he first pulled the rug out from under everything you thought you knew.

I'm going to be explicit and say I would personally not factor in anything HB wrote about "going back and closing doors" and whatnot, or any of the other speculation about the MLCer and their state of mind/feelings/. I've personally never seen evidence of these ideas, but what I've seen in hundreds of threads is that we never have any idea why they do or say what they're doing and saying, and trying to guess or predict that it's following some linear path to healing keeps the focus on them and watching for signs of something that we never really see if we just look at the reality of what's happening in front of us.
(My personal opinion, and others have disagreed with me, but I feel very strong about this, is that the break we see at BD is already beyond the point of healing without intensive self-work coupled with professional help.)

Fact:
He lied by omission, which proves he knows right from wrong, he knows he needs to present a false reality to you in order to get what he wants/needs from you - and that's manipulation and selfishness. There's really nothing benign about it. (That alone is enough for your enforcing of your boundary that he needs to let you go and stop with the crumbs, let alone the reality that he's still "friends" with the OW. He can't make any other friends? Sorry, but I never buy that they just can't give up their great friendship with the AP.)

Perhaps it's time he does lose access to you and his bedtime phone calls and hits of family time that he comes to take when he wants based on how he's feeling and what he needs.  Perhaps he should learn what a true "friend" is, because it's a lot of things, but it's not one-sided.  Now, he may or may not ever learn that, but that's his problem to sort out. You can't change anything about him and his choices, but you can take back your life. You know what you need for yourself and telling him he needs to let you go may have been very hard for you, but it takes strength to cut that cord with a clinger.  I hope as the days go on, you feel stronger and stronger for taking that step.
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 06:52:38 AM by Nas »

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#128: July 30, 2021, 07:12:18 AM
Quote
Perhaps it's time he does lose access to you and his bedtime phone calls and hits of family time that he comes to take when he wants based on how he's feeling and what he needs.  Perhaps he should learn what a true "friend" is, because it's a lot of things, but it's not one-sided.  Now, he may or may not ever learn that, but that's his problem to sort out. You can't change anything about him and his choices, but you can take back your life. You know what you need for yourself and telling him he needs to let you go may have been very hard for you, but it takes strength to cut that cord with a clinger.  I hope as the days go on, you feel stronger and stronger for taking that step

All about this!!! The hardest thing to do, but it necessary and something that we all fight. Looking always for that little something to give hope. They have to live in the reality they chose and whether that means they never come back? So be it. I love all the advise given, but NAS nailed it!!

Offroad: Fixed quote.
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 09:45:29 AM by OffRoad »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Re: Get Through Today
#129: July 30, 2021, 08:08:07 AM
Hi Music.

I was just reading your update.  I'm sorry he seems to be going a bit backwards, it's not unusual.  They can go through this for many years.

The fact that he can not understand how this "friendship" with this OW effects you tells me he is definately still in his crisis and it is still all about him.  What he wants, what will make him happy.

Just a couple of things, first boundaries are important and very hard put in place.  That's why it's important to make sure the boundary you have in place means there needs to be a consequence that goes with it.  A consequence you can enforce.

You cross my boundary, then I will need to do xyz.  The consequence is not a punishment, it is something you do to show him you're serious and he needs to respect that.
If you don't follow through with your consequence, no boundary you ever put up will be believed, or listened to.  Especially from a Clinger.

Secondly...yes he has been cake eating.  He has both his family time and is OW "friend" time, so he has no motivation to change.  He has the best of both worlds. Why would he give up either?

My personal boundary was:

OW = No friendship
No OW = Friendship
But that was mine.

Also he wants to believe he hasn't been stringing you along, but he has been... and I think knows that but is trying to convince himself he hasn't been so he doesn't have to feel guilty.  Don't believe him.

Music you seem like a strong, intelligent woman and have done very well, not having R talks or questioning him, but now it seems you have some choices to make, and only you can make them. It's entirely up to you what you choose to do.

Just do what is best for you. We will support any decision you make.

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Get Through Today
#130: July 30, 2021, 10:04:37 AM
Everyone has given such good advice. What you need to ask yourself right now is were you standing or were you standing still? Maybe because you saw what you thought were "improvements", you had stopped and we're waiting for him to catch up?  Or if you have been consistently moving forward, keep going that way.

The one thing every person who ever had an MLC spouse needs to realize is that if the mlc spouse did it once, they can do it again. If you want to stand and rebuild the marriage (or start a new one), that fact does not change, and you have to be willing to accept that it will always be something that might or might not happen again. That for reasons unknown to us, who they are is why it ever happened in the first place. Knowing that, how do you want to live YOUR life? Wondering if that guy who has one foot partially in the door is lying to you? Or keeping expectations at zero until both of his feet are back in the door if that should happen?  If OW = no friends, it's a clear boundary for you.

So now, what do you want to do? Is there anything about your life you want to do differently if you remove him from dog walks and nightly phone calls?
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#131: July 31, 2021, 05:15:20 AM
Ready, Curiosity, Standing, Treasur, Marvin, Nas, Tornup, Thunder, Offroad

Thank you.

You've helped me get some perspective and given me a lot to think about. I've read and re-read your comments as I get something else each time.

I probably did have some sneaky expectations there....carefully guarded ones that remained unspoken but all the same - expectations is what they were. Based on his slow, gradual reignited interest in the house, the garden....doing stuff. I really thought he had shifted along. Unlike previous returns which were straight back into "I love you love you love you" from the get go - this change has been slower and less dramatic and I therefore thought it more genuine. If that makes sense? I knew he wasn't "cooked" but something was different.

You're right to say that this time I have, unfortunately, got the benefit of experience and have bounced up again more efficiently than I did in the first 2 years of this - when his false returns were more frequent. But gosh it's so frustrating. So disappointing, so maddening to be here again. He said the other night that there was no point talking to his counsellor because he was "going round in circles" - a clear flag he's back in the fog - as when he's inched out before, he speaks to her and gets a lot from it he says. Grrrrrrrrrr

He has moved along a bit. He described his behaviour as "ghastly" the other night. 2 years ago he was merely "doing what he wanted to do". He has lied. He's lied by omission. He has rewritten history to suit his current mood. Yes I am guilty of focusing on him too much. I have also got a better job after a redundancy  and met new people since his crisis began so haven't completely stopped still. I know I could do better and plan to.

I do wonder about his father's death prompting this (albeit temporary or false) turn for home. It certainly seemed like a turning point. Why haven't the changes that that event brought about stuck?
Is it because he got the confidence to peek out from the tunnel and enjoyed it - until his Mum was ill and some problems came up at work? It's as if he tried it out here and something scared him back in. Surely whatever prompted that venture out is still in his head somewhere? That urge to try it?
Maybe that's what the going back and shutting doors is about? As Nas says I'm not sure what that would look like to the LBS.
Doesn't matter ultimately does it? He's going to do him and I'll do me.
I'd rather be me and not be a MLCer. I know that much.

Thanks again for taking the time to post.
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BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#132: July 31, 2021, 06:19:35 AM
Music I hope you are doing better. Ultimately you have to find what works best for you.

But I am going to go out on a limb and be a little blunt here. So please feel free to discard and ignore what I am about to say. This is all my personal opinion.

There are no stages really, there is no tunnel, there is no “peaking out,” going back, shutting doors etc. There are very complex and inter tangled psychological events that are happening in people in crises. One version of this is the broad umbrella of “MLC.” The general concepts and words we use are a good beginners guide to start to understand what is happening. I am in no way discounting the generalized version of truth they represent. In my opinion they are useful at the start, specially when someone has had no experience with people with personality disorders, anxiety disorders, depression, trauma, and disassociation. So its easier to say “shark eyes” then to explain what disasscoiation is and how it is the tip of the iceberg of something very profound and painful for the person.

So please don’t use the model now. He is not “going back” into any tunnel. He may be moving like a pendulum, he may have temporarily stabilized then destabilized, he may be in a very windy road to a new version of himself, or he is going around the same circle at different speeds. Only a professional therapist working with him for years can get a better read. And that ASSUMES he is fully engaged and wants to get better. You know that therapy joke? How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one but the light bulb had to want to change.

Why am I saying this? I think you can make the BEST decision for you IF you are viewing the situation with clarity, and only through the lens of your needs and wants and where you are. Any “analysis” of him should be left to professionals. Some of the language that worked in early days are now misleading, there are no doors to shut and if they were who says which side of that door he may live his life? The analogy is just not applicable.

Anyway keep focusing on you, and I hope you start to feel better. No matter where he is headed.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Re: Get Through Today
#133: July 31, 2021, 06:42:53 AM
Music I hope you are doing better. Ultimately you have to find what works best for you.

But I am going to go out on a limb and be a little blunt here. So please feel free to discard and ignore what I am about to say. This is all my personal opinion.

There are no stages really, there is no tunnel, there is no “peaking out,” going back, shutting doors etc. There are very complex and inter tangled psychological events that are happening in people in crises. One version of this is the broad umbrella of “MLC.” The general concepts and words we use are a good beginners guide to start to understand what is happening. I am in no way discounting the generalized version of truth they represent. In my opinion they are useful at the start, specially when someone has had no experience with people with personality disorders, anxiety disorders, depression, trauma, and disassociation. So its easier to say “shark eyes” then to explain what disasscoiation is and how it is the tip of the iceberg of something very profound and painful for the person.

So please don’t use the model now. He is not “going back” into any tunnel. He may be moving like a pendulum, he may have temporarily stabilized then destabilized, he may be in a very windy road to a new version of himself, or he is going around the same circle at different speeds. Only a professional therapist working with him for years can get a better read. And that ASSUMES he is fully engaged and wants to get better. You know that therapy joke? How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one but the light bulb had to want to change.

Why am I saying this? I think you can make the BEST decision for you IF you are viewing the situation with clarity, and only through the lens of your needs and wants and where you are. Any “analysis” of him should be left to professionals. Some of the language that worked in early days are now misleading, there are no doors to shut and if they were who says which side of that door he may live his life? The analogy is just not applicable.

Anyway keep focusing on you, and I hope you start to feel better. No matter where he is headed.

I’m going to second all of this. Like I said in my previous post, I am of the belief that a psychological event such as this cannot and will not end without professional intervention.

I know when we all first come here and read the articles, reading about the “stages of MLC“ provides a comfort, a way to wrap our minds around what is happening. But as time went on, at least in my situation, I almost started to wish that I had not read them. I looked for signs of them for a bit, while ignoring myself (it was in hindsight a good way to avoid myself), and then after a while, I just simply put the whole stages idea aside, as though it were an intro level explanation that helped me get through the early hell after BD.  I appreciated it very much at the time when I most needed it, but as with most things, there is a time for everything and LBS needs change as our lives go on.

Because buried in all of that information about the stages of MLC is the idea, not said enough or explicitly imo, that “you can’t see any evidence of these stages until well after, in hindsight.“ With no mention of how you get to the “after.“ And again, I don’t just don’t think you can get to the “after“ of a major psychological event  without intensive intervention, most probably needing trauma informed therapy.

I definitely agree with you, Music, when you say you’d rather be you than the MLCer. You have the ability to make informed decisions and take steps forward that are best for you without hurting other people. He may never get there, and the thoughts he describes racing through his head are imo definitely indicative of more than just a “fog” (which implies something that will just clear on its own). I do hope that someday he chooses to address these issues and seek to find appropriate help for himself.
xx
Nas
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Re: Get Through Today
#134: July 31, 2021, 11:12:17 AM
I third it Marvin!

Bottom line is until he does, and really wants to, do the hard work nothing will change.
That therapist will not help him do this until he is ready.  He's still running around in circles.

Put him on the back burner for now Music and just do you.  I like that!   :)  :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#135: July 31, 2021, 12:06:22 PM
I fourth it  :)
I also think tbh that the heart of the issue may not be about telling/asking him to let you go; it may be rather more about whether you are ready to remove him from your current life. To let HIM go actually rather than the other way round. And if so, you do not need his permission or action for that, do you? It’s not his choice to make, it’s your’s.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#136: August 01, 2021, 07:41:44 AM
Quote
There are no stages really, there is no tunnel, there is no “peaking out,” going back, shutting doors etc. There are very complex and inter tangled psychological events that are happening in people in crises. One version of this is the broad umbrella of “MLC.” The general concepts and words we use are a good beginners guide to start to understand what is happening. I am in no way discounting the generalized version of truth they represent. In my opinion they are useful at the start, specially when someone has had no experience with people with personality disorders, anxiety disorders, depression, trauma, and disassociation. So its easier to say “shark eyes” then to explain what disasscoiation is and how it is the tip of the iceberg of something very profound and painful for the person.

This is golden Marvin.   I think at the beginning of the crisis we are comforted that we can find stages and there may be an ending point.  I know in my situation, stages are gone and it's an ongoing crisis.  My H is in therapy and is slowly dealing with all of his issues.  It seems to be very difficult for him at some points and he tries to go back to escaping, because sometimes escape is easier than dealing with things head on.  I am learning to know when his escape patterns are having a direct affect on me and when I need to throw up my boundaries.

Music, I know the pain of seeing the person you have loved for so long start to come back your way and then disengage.  I know the feeling of having expectations crushed.  I have had to work hard on reading the situation for what it is and learn how to detach when necessary, finding what's best for me.

Sending you hugs as you continue to navigate your way. 
Roo

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« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 07:42:58 AM by 9393roo »
Husband 55
Me 55
Kids 3 sons 29, 27, 25 1 daughter 20
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 33 years.  Together 35
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.

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#137: August 01, 2021, 11:17:46 AM
Some people like specific words and some like metafors. Being in a tunnel seems like a good enough metafor for a mental darkness where any good thoughts about their relationship and perhaps their life turn dark, which is where the crisis takes some people, imo. While I don't necessarily agree with the written stages for MLC, I do believe each person in crisis is in A stage of some sort and these are not necessarily linear, but stages that cycle around. No different than grief, no different than depression . People work their way through, but not usually in a linear fashion. This is why stage watching is non beneficial, imo.

Clingers, the one who try to keep one foot in the door, don't know what they want, imo, as oposed to vanishers who believe they know exactly what they want, also imo. The clingers are especially hard for those LBS who want to keep their families intact. Peeking out of their own mental darkness (tunnel) can be an actual thing that happens, but it's scary in the real world so time to escape again.

People describe what they see in their own words. If others who read understand the meaning, linguistics has been satisfied. We don't all have to speak exactly the same way to have the same understanding. If I know "fromage" in French means "cheese" in English, someone can use either for me and it works.

JMO. Everyone's mileage may vary.
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#138: August 01, 2021, 11:26:30 AM
Back to you, Music. Your last post is very focused on your H. Why does he do this or that? You cannot know unless he tells you and he lies, so how can you know if it's the truth?

Better to concentrate on you. Move your self forward. Detach from what he does. If he figures it out, he can catch up. If he doesn't you will be in a good place.
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Re: Get Through Today
#139: August 01, 2021, 11:48:30 AM
People describe what they see in their own words. If others who read understand the meaning, linguistics has been satisfied. We don't all have to speak exactly the same way to have the same understanding. If I know "fromage" in French means "cheese" in English, someone can use either for me and it works.

JMO. Everyone's mileage may vary.

While I strongly believe in the power of metaphor and images this is one case where I respectfully disagree. The basic crux of this is that people CAN’T understand the complexity and difficulty of what is going on from these kind of words. In fact these images after the early stages of understanding are actually an oversimplification and lend themselves to misunderstanding. I can not reduce a highly complex idea like how to exist with joy and happiness in the world to a simple formula. Same way as these metaphors are too simplistic and have built in connotations like “progress” and “enter” and “exit” which implies clean deliberations and actions.

Not trying to be a contrarian, simply don't see it the same way. I see too many people using these metaphors to put themselves in a bad state of stage watching, having a false belief in an outcome, or a process that must proceed onward.
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BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Re: Get Through Today
#140: August 01, 2021, 12:53:04 PM
The basic crux of this is that people CAN’T understand the complexity and difficulty of what is going on from these kind of words.
And this is where I must respectfully disagree. You are not ALL people. You can speak for yourself that maybe YOU couldn't understand the complexity using those kinds of words, but I understand and understood it just fine. You are not me or anyone else, so you have no idea what we do or do not understand.

We have very differing views on what people are capable of understanding. Such is life. I presented my view. All people don't have to use words that one person says is right to fully understand their situation.
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#141: August 01, 2021, 01:05:18 PM
Thank you everyone. Again I will read and re read all your posts.

I think I was just using terms that are familiar to everyone on this forum - by way of better explaining what I was thinking or seeing or feeling.
I only mentioned H not wanting to see his counsellor as, throughout this it's been interesting to note that he thinks it's a good idea when he's false returning and bad when he's off again. Nothing more. I certainly know by now that I have less than zero influence or ability to make him change his mind.

I completely take on board the points made and will learn from them.

I know I have to get on with - as I said - doing me and let him do him. I have been doing that for 5 years now pretty much. Some slip ups but mostly getting on with life.
I put thoughts here to share them with the one bunch of people I know who can understand what it's like to be the spouse/partner of someone in crisis.

I'm very grateful for all your comments.
Thank you again.
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: Get Through Today
#142: August 01, 2021, 01:09:15 PM
Offroad I have to say I agree with most of what you and Marvin said.

I think it's good when you first come here to read the articles and get you bearings, understand somewhat what is happening to your loved one, and understanding it had nothing to do with you or your marriage.  That is very important!

But you will still never know what they are thinking or feeling unless they come out of this and share it with you.

What I believe is:

The fog, for lack of a better word.  Their confusion is great and half the time they have no idea why they are doing what they are doing.  Some have even described it as being in a thick fog.

I believe they did not choose this.  Who in their right mind would choose to blow up their beautiful family?
No one I know of.

I believe they are in a crisis, an identity crisis of some sort.

I believe they are in a depression through out the whole thing and are miserable and panicky and will do just about anything to feel better...or just to feel.  No matter who they hurt, but I do not think it's a clinical depression where you can just take anti-depressants to fix it. 
I believe it takes years for them to get through this.  I see none of them as happy.

I also believe if and when they do come out of this crisis they will have changed.  But we will be also.
We will not be the same people we were.  However if the changes were good and you are still compatible it's possible to reconcile, but it will be a whole new relationship.  The old one is dead in the water just like the old marriage is.
MLCer may want to come back home but the LBS no longer wants them back, they have moved on with their lives.

These are just my opinions from being on this site for years and talking with LBS's about their stories and their outcomes.
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« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 03:36:41 AM by Thunder »
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#143: August 01, 2021, 01:21:35 PM
Quote
There are no stages really, there is no tunnel, there is no “peaking out,” going back, shutting doors etc.

Marvin, that is your view and is shared with some other members however your view is not and should not be the only view.

I do understand what these words are expressing and actually I have seen examples of this in my own situation as well as in others.

Some people may not agree with Heartsblessing's writings or her own observations both personally and in the number of MLCers that she has observed over several years. But that doesn't mean that her theories don't have some merit.

Marvin, I find that your approach is to tell people that the only way to heal, to move forward, is to shut the door completely and if you cannot or will not do that, then the LBSer is going to remain "stuck". I apologize if this is not what you mean but you often come across very strong aka: "There are no stages really, there is no tunnel, there is no “peaking out,” going back, shutting doors etc."

Not so, not so at all.

We often used to say the the LBSer gets to choose and there are several choices one can make that will be right for that person, that situation and that relationship.

I don't think "stage watching" if the end result for the LBSer is to try and figure out when their loved one will return home is helpful. But I do accept that by using the definitions of the stages (that are not linear and do not affect every MLCer in the same way, however there are lots and lots of similarities) are one way for the LBSer to make some sense over what happened to the person they love.

In my own therapy, the metaphor "being in a cave" was quite an intense and important part of what I experienced from the trauma of what happened to my marriage and family. Using a phrase such a "being in a tunnel" can help some people conceptualize what has transpired.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 01:23:36 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#144: August 01, 2021, 01:22:06 PM
I think what you both agree on is the inherent risk (that most LBS fall into for a while) of believing that the phrases and stages predict an outcome we want. Perhaps create a feeling that we can comprehend something we find so incomprehensible, something intangible in someone else’s head, something without straight lines. Perhaps at the cost of ignoring the current reality in front of our nose in the hope of a better one as yet unseen. We vets often feel a strong desire to save others from making mistakes we made, even while we acknowledge that we were in pretty similar shoes. While newer LBS are flailing around looking for a way out of something that feels almost literally insane and moves around like jelly, doubting their own sense of reality or judgment for a while.

I think the detachment we so often talk about here is often about creating the space and distance for folks to work out what they think and feel and want to do. And finding words that make sense to them is part of that.

Someone on a thread recently asked if Standing was a waste of time. My honest answer - now - would be if one meant Standing for ones marriage, the anecdotal evidence would suggest that it probably is. But it is such a hot emotional topic here that I was loath to be so blunt. And of course, I recognise that it is simply my opinion and one that I was not ready to hear or could not really absorb for a long time. It seems to me that, along the path each of us take as individuals, we all have some need to explain to ourselves what the hell happened to us. And we find language or examples or metaphors as we go until we find something that works well enough for us to find some way of framing it that is just about comprehensible enough to work with. We humans tend to use metaphors and stories to explain the complex things that are hard to pin down with words, don’t we? Or music or poetry. Like our ancient ancestors told stories about why the sun rises or where fire came from  :) But what works for one may not be the same as what works for another. And our perspective evolves over time. We learn and find our own language as we go imho. What matters probably is being able to find our own reality through the metaphor and respect that we may not all get there in the same way. Jmo.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 01:28:01 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#145: August 01, 2021, 01:23:25 PM
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I only mentioned H not wanting to see his counsellor as, throughout this it's been interesting to note that he thinks it's a good idea when he's false returning and bad when he's off again. Nothing more. I certainly know by now that I have less than zero influence or ability to make him change his mind.

Music, I have the same thing over here as well.  He gets to a point where he starts digging in with the counselor and when it gets tough he wants to quit.  I don't have any influence over this but I have made it one of my boundaries.   If he quits I most likely will walk away.  It's been 5 years of back and forth until BD #3 when he had a potential lawsuit 6 months ago.  This was on the criteria for me to stay with him.  He focuses on getting himself the help he needs. 

I know I don't have any influence on what he does.  I do however have complete power on what I do in response to what he chooses to do or not do.  He knows this as well.  They have to get to a point to want help in order for them to seek counseling and keep it going. I hope your H can get there on day and be consistent about it.  Until then I hope you find your detached balance again.   
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Husband 55
Me 55
Kids 3 sons 29, 27, 25 1 daughter 20
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 33 years.  Together 35
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.

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#146: August 01, 2021, 01:51:56 PM
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I only mentioned H not wanting to see his counsellor as, throughout this it's been interesting to note that he thinks it's a good idea when he's false returning and bad when he's off again. Nothing more. I certainly know by now that I have less than zero influence or ability to make him change his mind.

Music, I have the same thing over here as well.  He gets to a point where he starts digging in with the counselor and when it gets tough he wants to quit.  I don't have any influence over this but I have made it one of my boundaries.   If he quits I most likely will walk away.  It's been 5 years of back and forth until BD #3 when he had a potential lawsuit 6 months ago.  This was on the criteria for me to stay with him.  He focuses on getting himself the help he needs. 

I know I don't have any influence on what he does.  I do however have complete power on what I do in response to what he chooses to do or not do.  He knows this as well.  They have to get to a point to want help in order for them to seek counseling and keep it going. I hope your H can get there on day and be consistent about it.  Until then I hope you find your detached balance again.   
This, right here. It is very difficult to keep the detachment going if you watch your spouse circle close then away and you cannot know if he is really ready to come back or not. It's why keeping your eyes on you is so important. He may or may not come through whatever he's going through.  He may decide he likes it where he is. But do YOU like where you are, Music? That is what is important. You are important.
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Re: Get Through Today
#147: August 01, 2021, 02:07:56 PM
Amen!   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#148: August 03, 2021, 01:38:03 AM
Music

I wanted to come on before your thread hits 150 as I have been reading along. It’s quite a discussion going on here which is always good.

I’m so sorry you are going through this with H. It’s just completely exhausting. I’m also glad you are you and not him. He has had a lot with both parents, difficult for someone not in crisis.  A lot on top of a crisis.

Emotionally for you this is heavy. It’s hard when they are around and seem more like themselves and then for you to see them again go towards the self destruct button.

Emotionally it’s easier when they are not around. It’s easier to focus on you and to be you, to find you and to notice what you like about you.

It’s good he had been going to therapy as some of it will have helped. It’s not easy so maybe understandable that at points they pull back from it.

How are the children doing?

I am so glad you posted here and got such support. I was just thinking recently about how we have to force our minds to think of something else. Like forcing something against its will, if it was a physical thing it would be almost impossible to force but here we are forcing our minds away from what is engulfing it towards something we know is to distract us. Something we can look back on and think ‘yes I was using that to distract’. Running is good for this as you can force your mind in to new routes, specific run times, easier runs, harder routes. It can be enough to distract and then doing the run gives you a little high which also helps. Something you did because you are strong and your mind is strong. That feels good when in bed at night.

I’m not quite sure how we have survived this far Music. Five years. Five years of forcing your mind away like that. Five years of living as your real H no longer exists. Five years Music.  That’s so long and you are so strong to have got this far.

How often is he contacting you atm? My advice is only that it’s easier to keep a clear head and to be you when you have less interaction.

Sending you peace
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#149: August 03, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
Catching up Music. So sorry you had the chair pulled out from under you again.

I don't have any advice, but I'll second what Rose said. It's pretty incredible that you or anyone can endure this for five years. Lord have mercy. I only made it through three and half. I'm in awe of those of you who are able to stand for so long.
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"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27. Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA  |  BD #2: 2018 - FA

W moved out - June 2019 | OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019 | Divorce final - September 2019 | Moving on

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

New Here? Read this! http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1149.0

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#150: August 08, 2021, 09:49:19 AM
Thank you everyone.
I need to start a new thread but will just note a couple of things here first.

Offroad - in truth I'm struggling a bit. I'm getting better as each day passes but I had got used to him being around and hearing from him. I worked out (for the purpose of journaling) that he's been back around for the best part of a year now. Did I have expectations? Probably - so my fault. He'd just been here so much.
I need to get used to him being gone again. I'm working on it but it's hard.

Roo. Thanks for posting. You're so right about having power over ourselves. I'm just working out how I want to use that I think. What I want to do.

Rose it's good to hear from you. I know! 5 years and still counting. I'm not sure if I'm standing anymore.

I know PJ but it's so good to read your posts and how you moved on. A strength I have yet to find.

New thread:

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11812.new#new


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« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 10:06:49 AM by Music45 »
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

 

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