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Author Topic: My Story Towards the place where all loose ends go

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My Story Towards the place where all loose ends go
OP: February 18, 2021, 06:46:44 AM
Previous thread:

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11689.msg778904#new

I hate being sick, it's like a giant spotlight aimed right at all the fears and failures, and really feels like walking through quicksand.
I'm also really sensitive to meds, so the only way I can describe the feeling is like there's a constant heartbeat in my right ear and a powerful magnet inside the center of my forehead pulling my brain involuntarily forward.  ::)
I've been watching nostalgic movies in the middle of the night. Over the Edge. Fast Times at Ridgemont High. The Outsiders. I saw Footloose in the theater with my friend about 3 weeks before she died and just watched it again for the first time since. 
Last night was Valley Girl.  I forgot what a fun soundtrack that was. 

I'm not sure where this new thread will go, all I know is I hope there's cake.  ;)
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« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 07:23:02 AM by Nas »

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Towards the places where all loose ends go
#1: February 18, 2021, 07:05:33 AM
Ah, Nas and cake....who needs more?  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#2: February 18, 2021, 07:39:37 AM
As you wish.....



 ;D ;D ;D

I hope that you are feeling better soon!
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#3: February 18, 2021, 10:43:52 AM
Yes, cake! I bought carrots yesterday to make carrot cake for the snow day. Need to get on it.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#4: February 18, 2021, 11:21:37 AM
Nas maybe there's something in the air, I just watched The Outsiders myself for the hundredth time.  One of my favorites.

Saturday Night Fever or Grease may be next.  Or 9 to 5!   Just so I can sing along.  ;D

I hope you feel better, Nas.

Hugs

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#5: February 18, 2021, 01:37:07 PM
Nas -
Following along on your journey.
Hope that you feel better soon, and enjoy those old movies.

Why did you choose this title for your new thread?  Just curious...
And yes, more cake please!

Sea
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#6: February 18, 2021, 02:18:50 PM



Why did you choose this title for your new thread?  Just curious...




I chose it for several reasons, but it comes from an (imo) underrated Duran Duran song called Before the Rain, which is about a man haunted by guilt and facing his demons. The full line is: “And so we travel and we unravel towards the place where all loose ends go…”
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#7: February 18, 2021, 03:02:02 PM



Why did you choose this title for your new thread?  Just curious...




I chose it for several reasons, but it comes from an (imo) underrated Duran Duran song called Before the Rain, which is about a man haunted by guilt and facing his demons. The full line is: “And so we travel and we unravel towards the place where all loose ends go…”


Nas, you had me at Duran Duran... 8)
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Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
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She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
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I retain attorney.
STBXW still hasn't told me and no further action.
Elephant in the room has been addressed.  No further action atm.  Weighing my options.
12/16/19  She files financial paperwork.  Divorce proceeding.

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#8: February 18, 2021, 03:32:13 PM
Then it seems like a perfect name.
I love Duran Duran and H and I used to dance and sing to them in the 80’s or 90’s.
I don’t recall that song, but will look it up.
The words you quoted are great!
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#9: February 19, 2021, 04:09:15 PM
Joining your new thread, Nas. Hope you might begin to feel better soon.x
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#10: February 19, 2021, 05:33:09 PM
Joining for the next adventure  :D

-SS
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#11: February 19, 2021, 09:30:48 PM
Following along Nas. Hope you feel better soon.

The Outsiders - Nice! I was just in Tulsa a couple months ago and stopped by the house they used for the movie.

Stay gold, y'all.
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My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#12: February 20, 2021, 04:58:11 AM
       Hi Nas following along! My dog is named Soda Pop lol I love that movie. I do hope you feel better soon . Sending Good Vibes your way !
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#13: February 20, 2021, 10:53:02 AM
Attaching

I am thinking that I have actually never seen The Outsiders.  Hmmm.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#14: February 20, 2021, 11:43:37 AM
Stay Golden, Nas!

You can't lose with any S.E. Hinton adaptation. And you know my feelings on Duran Duran... :-*
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#15: February 20, 2021, 12:00:53 PM
How are you feeling, today, Nas? 
Did cake help?
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#16: February 21, 2021, 04:56:18 PM
How are you feeling, today, Nas? 
Did cake help?

Actually, I received an unexpected gift of cake and it really helped a ton even though I haven’t tasted it yet. (I can’t wait because it looks delicious.)  I’m waiting for my fever to break.

I spent all day on the couch under a heated throw blanket, falling asleep on and off while episodes of House played in the background  (I loved that show but had forgotten about it). As I was making myself some soup and a cup of tea with honey, I realized this is exactly like when I would get sick during my marriage. So I’m not really missing having someone here because I’m still taking care of myself with no help. 🙄

I’m loving all the love you guys have for Duran Duran and The Outsiders.  ;)

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#17: February 22, 2021, 05:58:32 AM
Some soup and tea with honey.  And a gift of cake.  I hope your fever flees in the face of such powerful enemies.
(((((HUGS)))))
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#18: February 22, 2021, 11:13:11 AM
Hi Nas. Hope you are feeling better. I chuckled a little when you said taking care of yourself now is the same as when in your marriage--no help.  It is so important that we not idealize our marriages as they were just b/c we were abandoned. Good reminder.

And oh do I adore Duran Duran and the Outsiders. I just watched it with S14 a few months ago. He loved it too.

Enjoy your cake my friend--both literal and figurative.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#19: February 22, 2021, 03:05:02 PM
Dear Nas, I hope your fever will break at any second. Me too I had to take care of myself when I had a fever. Good point you make! Actually, your H sounds like a clone of my H.

Hope the honey tea and House (loved that show) get you up and going very soon.x
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#20: February 22, 2021, 11:29:06 PM
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#21: February 24, 2021, 09:16:54 AM
Okay, so this is an established Duran Duran fan thread now.  ;)
I was so young when this song came out. Like so many things you can never recreate or get back, I wish I could feel the feeling of hearing it for the first time.

Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjtSznSeyUI
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#22: February 25, 2021, 07:57:37 AM
I know I promised Duran, but this is a mood today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ha6SHtkt0

Got an unsolicited message this morning (actually last night but I read it this morning) from MIL's hairstylist, who thought she would be oh so helpful in letting me know MIL got vaccinated and went to get her hair done, and proceeded to have a complete heaving-sobbing breakdown in the chair while recounting that her therapist (whom she runs to every time she's feeling desperate, has one session, proclaims herself "fixed" and then doesn't go back for years) said something to her to the effect of, "Your son didn't leave his wife, he left you." 

Yeah, well...
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#23: February 25, 2021, 08:43:27 AM
Sounds like my MIL. All about them. A good reminder of where these MLCers came from and why they are where they are now. Sorry you had to see that though. I will say that MIL likely got the message wrong from the therapist--probably said that he left his whole life, which included her.

Back to Duran Duran. ;)
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#24: February 25, 2021, 01:24:48 PM
Or maybe MIL reworded it wrong or heard it wrong in the first place. Maybe the therapist was trying to tell her that her S's crisis and leaving you was all about your H's relationship with her. That would be quite an awakening for her. Don't they say that the in laws don't condem their sons in crisis because otherwise they would have to take a look at what caused them to be this way? And that would mean taking an internal look at themselves? It's interesting that she broke down at the hairdresser. Why there? Maybe she feels safe there? Or she knows it will get back to you?
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#25: February 25, 2021, 01:58:50 PM
I tend to take it at face value, truth dart about those FOO issues, but I think this is important:

Quote
Or she knows it will get back to you?

Such performers they are, she probably still doesn't want you to see her as the bad guy. Or since her son isn't paying attention to her, maybe trying to triangulate you back in. FOO issues galore!
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#26: February 26, 2021, 02:58:45 AM
Got an unsolicited message this morning (actually last night but I read it this morning) from MIL's hairstylist, who thought she would be oh so helpful in letting me know MIL got vaccinated and went to get her hair done, and proceeded to have a complete heaving-sobbing breakdown in the chair while recounting that her therapist (whom she runs to every time she's feeling desperate, has one session, proclaims herself "fixed" and then doesn't go back for years) said something to her to the effect of, "Your son didn't leave his wife, he left you." 

I think my first thought might have been "And I should be concerned because....?"

MIL is also not your problem nor is her sobbing attack... She has to deal with the consequences resulting from her R with her son.  It is called "adulting."

That goes into the "Sorry, not sorry" folder...
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#27: February 26, 2021, 05:08:12 AM
Wow, if that's true, that is a sharp-tongued (or very frustrated) therapist  :)
But of course, it isn't your concern is it? And I'd guess the mil relationship has been rather light on the reciprocity front.....you may need to clarify with mil's hairdresser that you are not looking for updates in future bc it's no longer your business....what an odd thing for someone to do  ::)
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#28: February 26, 2021, 06:08:28 AM
Hi KIT, Milly, R2T, UM and Treasur.
Yes, it was obnoxious for this person to tell me this (and I let her know as politely as I could), especially since I haven’t communicated with this person in a long time and this message from her was out of the blue. Apparently the crying breakdown my xMIL had was very over the top and made the hairstylist really uncomfortable (not really surprising as she certainly fits the bill for histrionic or some other kind of PD).
She’s had similar breakdowns in the salon, where word would be sure to get around. Once very early on after I ran into her there right after the affair came to light, once after she learned of my cancer diagnosis. These performances are just that, performances. When I failed my first chemo, was hospitalized and needed a plasma transfusion, the hairstylist asked her directly if she ever went to see me or brought me groceries or anything. xMIL’s response was, “Oh no, I can’t get in the middle.”  When I  asked her to help me contact him or relay a message to please have his lawyer contact, since he’d moved states and changed his phone number, and she told me she wouldn’t “be a go between.” 🙄🙄🙄
Now he’s not communicating with her either and it’s the end of the world.

I’d say the therapist was probably frustrated, though I doubt she said anything as harshly as xMIL made it seem. We are not talking about a world renowned psychotherapist though. xMIL and her therapist both live in the same small town and all of this therapist clients are generally from the same small town. xMIL approaches a one-off therapy appointment as if it’s the same as taking Tylenol for a headache - feeling despair over something? Spend exactly 59 minutes talking to a therapist and - poof! - all is well again. In her mind, the therapist fixes your problems for you the way a dermatologist fixes your rash or a dentist fixes your cavity. You don’t have to actually be accountable or self-aware. (A lot of people have this warped view of therapy, unfortunately.) 
I can imagine as a therapist, having a patient who comes running in every time something happens in their life, makes one appointment, doesn’t take anything under consideration or attempt to grow and then disappears and doesn’t come back for years would be frustrating.
Anyway, she’s not my problem and I’m sure I made it clear enough I don’t want any further “updates.”
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#29: March 01, 2021, 05:59:14 PM
One of my faves:
https://youtu.be/zU20mJJULyI

Just journaling:
I have a biopsy (extremely annoyingly early) tomorrow morning. I’m not concerned but it’s just more disruption.

I was doing some thread hopping in the waiting room today and saw a lot of talk of those crazy making questions of what was/wasn’t real, the ideas of narcissists, conflict avoidant.
I had a lot of thoughts swirling but nothing concrete enough to be helpful in regards to anyone else’s situation. But I’ve spent a good amount of time in waiting rooms these last few years, and now because of Covid, everyone is waiting alone. I used to watch couples in the waiting room and imagine their stories. The elderly women, their husbands never, ever seemed to leave their sides. They always looked so sad and they were very quiet. The middle aged women, their husbands asked a lot of questions. They paced around, they went and got coffee, drank it, went and got more. They didn’t look at anyone. The younger women (there weren’t very many of these so the sample size is way smaller), their husbands doted on them. “Are you cold, are you warm, do you want some more water? Are you hungry? Do you feel sick, let me find a nurse...”

Different kinds of present, but they were all there. The young ones looked terrified to lose the love of their lives, the middle aged ones looked terrified to not have any control over the situation, the old ones looked terrified to be left alone.
I think what I thought at the time was: firetruck love. Love is not all you need. Love is like a fraction of what you need to make a marriage work.  I loved my ex but I could have loved him better and harder than anyone in the history of the world loved anyone and it wouldn’t have made a damn bit of difference because I was in that waiting room alone. Not because I don’t have what it takes to make a relationship work, but because he didn’t.

There’s always going to be the “other” in our lives: other people we’d like to know, other places we’d like to be. I chose him over and over throughout our almost two decades. My mistake was assuming he was also continuously choosing me, when I’m reality he was continuously choosing himself. Was he wearing a mask all along, did he change overnight, was it something on between? I don’t know, and I’m too firetrucking tired to care anymore. Did he love me, did he not love me...he wasn’t there, so either way, firetruck him.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#30: March 01, 2021, 11:18:24 PM
 
Quote
Not because I don’t have what it takes to make a relationship work, but because he didn’t.
This ^^^^
Quote
Was he wearing a mask all along, did he change overnight, was it something on between? I don’t know, and I’m too firetrucking tired to care anymore. Did he love me, did he not love me...he wasn’t there, so either way, firetruck him.
And this (increasingly for me) ^^^^

It's funny what we see when our common sense switch turns back on, isn't it?
I wonder too if some of our normal (for LBS) compulsion to figure them out is simply bc it is painful and sad to acceot that our spouses are the kind of humans who can do exactly what they did to people who loved and trusted them for years. And of course, an ow or om does not magically change that, does it, no more than we did. And most adult lives come with tough times at some point.

I hope your biopsy goes as easily as can be expected, Nas, and that you are rewarded with good cake.
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 12:43:45 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#31: March 02, 2021, 08:09:46 AM
Nas, Treasur... thank you for these thoughts. I have been reading the same threads and thinking back to my obsessive need to understand it, to understand why, to understand her. And I think it took reaching a place of mental exhaustion to realize that I will never understand those things, and it wouldn’t really even matter if I did. All we can do is understand ourselves, who we are and why we do what we do, to treat ourselves with kindness, and to treat the people around us with integrity and fairness as best we can. Reading the discussions about narcissism, I immediately thought of the differences between the actual personality disorder and the idea of narcissism as a description of someone’s traits - something that is perhaps just a form of selfishness, ultimately. But the more I thought about it, the more clear it became that I don’t have any answers, and even if I did have answers for my situation, they wouldn’t necessarily be the same answers for anyone else. So we all have to find it ourselves, in whatever way we can.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#32: March 02, 2021, 08:33:40 AM
Prayers going up for your biopsy!

I can't remember at what point I came to acceptance and let it go. Probably last week.  ;)  Truthfully, I do still wonder how to define and file away the time spent before BD. There were times he was "on" and times he was "off" and I can't really ignore that now. But my own feelings are all that really matter, and the reality that he walked away is all I need to accept.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#33: March 02, 2021, 09:49:36 AM
There's a Duran Duran song for all occasions:
https://youtu.be/n_Io3CtmdoQ

Thanks for the prayers.   :-*
I'm back at the apartment, mildly medicated, pain's not bad at all, and should have results by Thursday.  So as long as I don't check in with Dr. Google, all is well.

I think  in all those early days in the waiting room, the pain of realizing (even if he did ever love me) "There's no amount of love that could 'fix' the enormity of all of this" was in a sense more painful than the actual BD.  That realization came a little bit before the actual acceptance, so there was a weird hazy limbo period where I still kept reading about personality disorders and ACOA and all those things I thought would explain it all away, as if an explanation would change anything. 
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#34: March 02, 2021, 01:52:00 PM
This for me, Nas: Did he love me, did he not love me...he wasn’t there, so either way, firetruck him.
Well said. I think I'm right beside you as far as my journey is going. Good luck with the biopsy results.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#35: March 02, 2021, 09:51:48 PM
Hi NAS ,

I will say a prayer for you . I hope you are going g well. Yes the wondering if I made this whole relationship up in my head. Did she ever really live me ? Our kids ? Our family? I will never really know. I am finding a little peace now. Finally. I hope you are too NAS. God Bless ! Get better soon.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#36: March 03, 2021, 10:37:13 AM
The question of did they ever love me is one a lot of us LBS ask, and it's heartbreaking at first to even think about it.  For me, the only thing I can know for sure is I loved him - but in reality, that's not the case with my marriage, that's true of any relationship I've ever had/may potentially have in the future.  The only thing I ever knew for sure is how I felt and I had to just trust that my partner felt the way they said they did - it's just that I never had to look at it that way until the person I loved said and did so many unspeakably terrible things and caused me to question everything. 

So I can't say the last two decades of my life just didn't happen (fwiw, neither can the MLCers).  I have my good memories and I know I was honest and sincere, so I guess that's the best place I can land.  At first, it was hard to look back without trying to reexamine every memory to figure out what I must have missed, which was a waste of time and energy because I can't re-live those years.  I loved him all those years, regardless of whether his love was real or fake or transactional or even intentionally deceptive.  I chose to love him, I chose to be faithful to him, and I chose to trust him, and I'm not ashamed of that.  And despite his horrific words and actions, I don't hate him, though I certainly don't love him, and I definitely don't respect him, which is the biggest issue because without respect there really can't be anything.  If anything, I'd be afraid of him.  In the words of Simon LeBon: "Where are you now 'cause I don't want to meet you..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6kIZ0BCvUU
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 10:44:15 AM by Nas »

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#37: March 05, 2021, 06:53:01 AM
For the last few nights I’ve been trying to save my bored dying brain cells by doing some Japanese poetry translation. (I don’t speak Japanese, that’s what makes it fun 😂🥴).
Of course now my google search history is leading me to all kinds of things, including the intriguing headline of this article:

FAIR WARNING: do not read unless you’re someplace where you can cry openly.

https://widerimage.reuters.com/story/japans-tsunami-survivors-call-lost-loves-on-the-phone-of-the-wind

Sometimes just saying something out loud can provide such a release. There’s also something beautiful here about holding on to love while also letting go.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#38: March 05, 2021, 10:09:01 AM
That's rather lovely, Nas.
And seems so very understandable for someone who has lost a loved one, doesn't it? Perhaps we should all be a little kinder to ourselves that just bc our spouses did not literally die so the world might see our situation differently, many of the emotions are much the same.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#39: March 05, 2021, 10:29:26 AM
Praying for you Nas.

Interesting discussion about love. My H has always maintained that he does "love" me. But, all the while pursuing his other shiny MLCer life. So it got to a point where I realized he is either lying about love or, more likely, the love was there but the will was not.  I used to think that love is all you need. And I still believe it to the extent that love includes those other characteristics we find so important--honesty, commitment, respect.  Otherwise, it's like me saying I love champagne. Which, let's be clear, I DO. But I wouldn't hesitate to throw it out if it were corked.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#40: March 09, 2021, 08:48:23 AM
That's rather lovely, Nas.
And seems so very understandable for someone who has lost a loved one, doesn't it? Perhaps we should all be a little kinder to ourselves that just bc our spouses did not literally die so the world might see our situation differently, many of the emotions are much the same.

When I was 19, my boyfriend of two years died in a motorcycle accident.  He had called me at work that day and I had to cut the call short - my boss was clearly irritated with me and I snapped at my bf that I had to go and I'd call him later.  But later never came and I remember carrying around this very strong need to finish that conversation.  I've sadly long since lost track of the things I wrote to him after he died and I'm sure they somehow got thrown away in my last few years of vagabond existence, but I know they were a big part of my healing process and I would really love to read them now. 

Praying for you Nas.

Interesting discussion about love. My H has always maintained that he does "love" me. But, all the while pursuing his other shiny MLCer life. So it got to a point where I realized he is either lying about love or, more likely, the love was there but the will was not.  I used to think that love is all you need. And I still believe it to the extent that love includes those other characteristics we find so important--honesty, commitment, respect.  Otherwise, it's like me saying I love champagne. Which, let's be clear, I DO. But I wouldn't hesitate to throw it out if it were corked.

I like that image, KIT.  My marriage was definitely corked.   
And there's unfinished conversation there too, but unlike with my teenage bf, my parents and others, the conversation is unfinished not because one party no longer exists to finish it, but because one party (my former H) decided the conversation was not important enough to finish. 
It takes a certain kind of broken to hurt someone in so many life changing ways and then just take off with no apology, no concern for the person you're leaving behind.  Whatever your definition of love (past or present) is, that's not it.  Even with your love of champagne, I'm guessing you feel a loss when you have to throw it out, because you remember loving it before it was tainted.  (I'm guessing, I don't actually like champagne, lol.  Sorry, KIT, hope we can still be friends  ;))

Here's your Duran Duran for the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbbaWq6EtaM
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#41: March 09, 2021, 02:56:26 PM
Always interesting stuff here on your thread, Nas. How sad your young boyfriend died and you were left with a sense of guilt and an unfinished conversation. But I think you explain very well the difference between that tragic event and the choice our MLCers made to leave us without a chance to try to repair, or the slightest hint of caring how we were going to fare, no concern for the person they were leaving behind, the person who was their person for so many years. As if they wished us dead. That's how I have often felt, that if I had killed myself, I would have done him a favour. What kind of people can act this way? No wonder I was researching 'psychopath' before I found this site.

And I love champagne, so I'll butt in here for KIT while she's busy, I would absolutely dump the corked bottle, but be very sorry for having to do so.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#42: March 10, 2021, 12:44:49 AM
Praying for you Nas.

Interesting discussion about love. My H has always maintained that he does "love" me. But, all the while pursuing his other shiny MLCer life. So it got to a point where I realized he is either lying about love or, more likely, the love was there but the will was not.  I used to think that love is all you need. And I still believe it to the extent that love includes those other characteristics we find so important--honesty, commitment, respect.  Otherwise, it's like me saying I love champagne. Which, let's be clear, I DO. But I wouldn't hesitate to throw it out if it were corked.

This reminds me that I had some thoughts on ‘interest’ that I was going to share on my own thread but never got around to it. Partly because they’re not entirely formed thoughts; more a feeling, or an intuition.

I’m a horsey gal. Have been from as far back as I can remember. Talking horses, thinking about horses, doing horsey things with my horsey friends, breeding, showing, watching shows, endlessly discussing conformation and breeding on horse forums etc etc was a huge part of my life pre-BD. Post-BD that just... went away. I knew I still loved horses. That hadn’t changed at all. I could still feel that. But I had no INTEREST in doing any of those things I used to do. I gave away the ponies I had at the time (4 pony broodmares) and it was very sad. But not as sad as it should have been. I was simply overwhelmed with the pain and trauma and depression we all felt at BD (and for a good long while after) and had nothing left for horses anymore*.

So it got me to wondering whether it might be a similar feeling, or rather lack of feeling, for a MLCer (or at least some of them)?  Because I really do think my H still loves me. He just has no INTEREST in me. No interest in spending time with me. And no interest in the life he ran away from.

And that reminds me of what teenagers are like as they prepare for and then fledge the parental nest, and fly off into their new lives. First they need to ‘turn away from’ their parents. Not in any conscious way. They just lose interest in most things parent related. They start looking outward and detach themselves and are so focussed on their shiny new horizon that they forget about their boring old parents. Nothing to do with a lack of love. Just a lack of interest because their focus is completely elsewhere. They know mum and dad are there. They are the anchor or the rock that ALLOWS the teenager to turn away and have the courage to make that jump into a new life. I often get the impression that that is exactly what my H did. But *I* got slotted into the parent spot. I simultaneously mean nothing... and mean everything.

All just thoughts that float around. I’d be interested in others thoughts on this. I know it’s likely nothing new or original. 

I love your champagne analogy KIT. And I too am thinking of you Nas.

* Happy to report my interest in the ponies is slowly seeping back in and I’m delighted to announce that I just found out last week that one of my mares (that I gave to a friend and is therefore still officially mine) is in foal. My friend and I will share the foal (not ready yet to do that on my own again just yet)
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#43: March 10, 2021, 04:03:50 AM
Very interesting comparison, Ever.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#44: March 15, 2021, 07:00:58 PM
For what is shaping up to be a stressful few weeks...
Dare you to not take a moment to forget your troubles with this one (or maybe it’s just me):

https://youtu.be/nx8Ktp1elRw
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#45: March 21, 2021, 05:43:14 PM
How did it get to be Sunday night already?
This time in 2017, I was just at the beginning of my “new life.” I had cancer but I didn’t know it. Beautifully, blissfully oblivious. In fact, on this exact date in 2017, a Tuesday iirc, I was on a date. I only remember the date because it was also my friend’s birthday.
I wonder where that new life would’ve gone if it wasn’t cut short. I would give anything to have my health back.

Today I was thinking back to the time in between BD and learning about the affair and my big move, the time when I was “auditioning” different cities to figure out where my new life would be. Traveling to different cities to see if any of them felt like they could be “home.” I really felt like this bad ass embarking on a whole new life after having fully accepted that my old life was gone.

It feels like a whole lifetime ago - and someone else’s life at that. And the time in between then and now, there’s huge blank spaces. I wish I’d had the foresight (or emotional energy) to have kept a journal.

I hope everyone has a good week. ❤️

Today’s Duran Duran:
Do you believe in shame?
Do you believe in love?
And if they taste the same would you love again?

https://youtu.be/n_Io3CtmdoQ
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#46: March 24, 2021, 05:29:22 PM
So I recently shared on the Covid thread about a wonderful man I knew and cared about who died of Covid.

I heard some info today that made the story seem like an odd intersection of COVID-19 and MLC. The services were obviously canceled after his wife tested positive and it turns out they got sick because they both got their first shots of the vaccine and headed straight for the casino.

His daughter was in charge of writing his obituary. She noted in the write up that he was survived by three grandchildren that she mentioned by name and also “4 other grandchildren.”

The “4 other grandchildren” who were unnamed in their grandfather’s obituary (despite their cousins being named) were her OWN CHILDREN. Who she walked out on a few years ago on Christmas Eve when she left for another man. Everything I’ve heard about the situation screams MLC to me.  And apparently because her children do not approve of or accept her new “soulmate” and are understandably upset about the way she left her family, she has not spoken to them and would not even mention their names in their own grandfather’s obituary.

As someone who spent much of my 30s wanting and trying to have children, I just simply cannot fathom having four children and throwing them away to be with any man. I wouldn’t care if it was Keanu Reeves or Daniel Craig. I wouldn’t cut ties with my kids for them or any man.

Children who have to deal with the long lasting wounds of immature and unwell parents… It just breaks my heart.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#47: March 24, 2021, 07:02:47 PM
How incredibly gross. I'm sorry about his passing. :( I'm sure you're not the only one who noticed her "omissions". Even without enough MLC information and years invested to write a dissertation, irrational actions that public and blatant will stand out. Good for the kids for staying far away from her, honestly.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#48: March 24, 2021, 10:57:33 PM
What a crappy thing to do.....to use an obituary for your own father, when your mother is ill, as an act of spite. The only positive I can see as Ready2 says is that folks as disordered as this are so toxic to be around that her kids are probably better without much contact with her at all. I hope they have a good loving LBS father. Isn't it strange how these folks who run off to 'find their new happy' rarely seem to behave like normal happy folks do?  ::)
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#49: March 25, 2021, 07:13:24 AM
THAT is someone who is about 2 cans short of a 6-pack... and like some of the Mid-Lifers here, she is just driving more nails into the coffin of her R with her kids.... Each one of these kinds of HUTA Actions (HUTA = Head Up The ... Fog...) will alienate her kids farther and farther..
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#50: March 28, 2021, 04:46:33 AM
Nas, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. What a telling story, thank you for sharing. It is so unbelievable to hear how these MLCers can just do without their kids and actually feel like victims of their kids' 'bad' behaviour when they refuse to accept the new luv object that destroyed their family and life as they'd always known. It really is like a switch went off in these MLCers, the switch turned in the wrong direction. Unbelievable she would want the whole congregation to hear how she no longer even names her own children, as if this un-naming might get her sympathy. Wtf.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#51: March 29, 2021, 07:15:35 AM
Sadly, I doubt many people thought twice about the fact that only certain grandchildren were named.  But Milly, you're right about the "victim" mentality.  I've written in the past about the insightful conversations with my female cousin who definitely is MLC (and now even admits it).  But STILL talks about her now grown kids as if they abandoned her, and still, at times when she's feeling defensive or less reflective, justifies and minimizes her actions in various ways.  And this is now about 15 years from when she started her affair and left the family. (She married her AP but that marriage lasted only a few years.)
I really can't express enough how much I feel for all the kids involved in these crises (and the LBS who have to navigate this themselves and for/with their kids). We really cannot take seriously enough the things we internalize as children...
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#52: March 29, 2021, 10:14:27 AM
This public abandonment of all FOUR of her children just blows my mind.  I have no words. 
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#53: March 29, 2021, 06:14:03 PM
It is gross and I know all too well there’s so many ways to abandon a child.  I can’t even imagine being that careless and emotionally void - to anyone, but especially to a child.

I am having an important surgery on Wednesday that will leave me out of commission for 2-3 weeks. I’ll be restricted from driving or moving in certain positions and will be sleeping sitting up in my recliner, which should be just great. I’ve of course planted a bag of Cadbury mini eggs next to the recliner though.  ;) For the past week I’ve been moving things around so nothing is too high or too low for me to reach, everything I need is (hopefully) within reach and I can get by without moving around too much. It does suck a little to be doing this alone and I’m definitely stressed, but I think I’ve got everything covered.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#54: March 29, 2021, 09:37:37 PM
Nas, wishing you well with your surgery and recovery. Sounds like you’ve got the important things covered, and by that I of course mean the Cadbury mini eggs. I will be thinking positive thoughts for you.

I’ve been reading your thread and I constantly find myself stunned by the way they disregard all that was real - their entire lives that they have built - during crisis. It seems like it would be so very difficult to recover from that, to truly own it and to make amends and heal. I guess this is why some never make it through, and for the ones who do, it takes years but they are better, stronger people as a result. Seems like many of them end up like that woman - making the tunnel their new reality.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#55: March 30, 2021, 01:05:57 AM
Nas, wishing you well with your surgery and recovery. Sounds like you’ve got the important things covered, and by that I of course mean the Cadbury mini eggs. I will be thinking positive thoughts for you.
As will we all Nas!
{{{{{{{{HUGS!}}}}}}}}


I’ve been reading your thread and I constantly find myself stunned by the way they disregard all that was real - their entire lives that they have built - during crisis. It seems like it would be so very difficult to recover from that, to truly own it and to make amends and heal. I guess this is why some never make it through, and for the ones who do, it takes years but they are better, stronger people as a result. Seems like many of them end up like that woman - making the tunnel their new reality.

Exactly correct.... This is why HS stresses the importance of our own healing (that of the LBS) rather than focusing on the Mid-Lifer.... It is also why RCR says explicitly that there are NO guarantees that one's marriage will be restored or "magic formulas" to kick the MLC'er through the tunnel and back into reality... It is nothing that the LBS can (or should) try to control because, well, frankly, what the MLC'er creates in their chaos is not our farms, not our cows, not our male bovine excrement to deal with....

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#56: March 30, 2021, 02:10:26 AM
Will be thinking of you on Wednesday, Nas xxxx
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#57: March 30, 2021, 05:14:31 AM
There are a variety of qi gong movements you can do while sitting in a chair that move your lymph system and help recovery from surgery. Hope it is as pain-free as possible.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#58: March 30, 2021, 08:22:11 AM
Big hugs and quick healing after surgery, Nas!

Just in case you haven't posted this one yet, let it be a reminder to relax and keep the "pressure off"! ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qFhSWA9Cz4
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#59: March 30, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Nas,

Wishing you all the best for your surgery and recovery.

Hugs, Believer
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#60: March 30, 2021, 10:17:49 AM
Best wishes for a successful surgery and an uneventful, quick recovery period. 
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#61: March 31, 2021, 03:33:41 PM
Dearest Nas, Wednesday night here, and hoping you've come through with your usual brilliant colours. Sending strength and hugs and company. xxxx
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#62: March 31, 2021, 05:28:36 PM
Sending prayers and love Nas.  - Air
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#63: March 31, 2021, 06:03:12 PM
Thought about you several times today Nas. Hope all went well and recovery goes as smooth as possible .  Take good care .
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#64: April 01, 2021, 06:34:30 AM
Hello,

I hope this post finds you in recovery and with a chocolate egg close by!

(((((Ready)))))
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#65: April 01, 2021, 05:15:03 PM
Thinking of you Nas. And like Ready, I hope you have lots of yummy treats near you--especially cake.  ;D
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#66: April 01, 2021, 11:21:30 PM
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#67: April 02, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Nas,

Just catching up, I hope you are well on the road to recovery! I am sure the Cadbury eggs are helping ;)

Thinking of you

Gentle hugs
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#68: April 03, 2021, 08:08:20 PM
Thinking of you Nas.  I hope you are doing okay.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#69: April 04, 2021, 03:54:42 PM
How are you, Nas?
Happy Easter. Big hugs x
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#70: April 12, 2021, 09:04:41 AM
Happy Monday, all.

(perfect song for today, of course):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3a4OTh2Y8w

Just a quick thank you for all the well wishes.  I am doing much better and thank you all for your messages. My surgeon (who is known to be a bit of a 'worst case scenario' kind of guy by my oncology team) told me to take at least 3 weeks of recovery because even sitting at a computer engages certain muscles he didn't want me to use.  But life (i.e. work and bills and, most importantly [?  ;)], cheesecake) can't wait for my surgeon's okay, so I created a temp sort of "reclining chair desk" and went back to doing some work the Tuesday after my Wednesday surgery.  Not exactly comfy, but it's only temporary.  I'm straining my eyes a lot because my vision has been blurry since the surgery and that's causing some headaches, but that appears to be getting a lot better now too.  I have been literally working and sleeping and not much else...which kind of isn't much different than pre-surgery life, except that because I'm weak from the surgery, I actually am getting some sleep instead of staring at the ceiling or watching things on TV that I can't even remember watching later.  ???  I didn't check the forum for over a week, looks like I missed some pretty interesting discussions.
Thanks again for checking in - Hope everyone is doing well!
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#71: April 12, 2021, 10:20:18 AM
Glad to see your update, and that you are on the mend! Cheesecake would most certainly speed the recovery further. I hope you aren’t working too hard and that you are resting enough, but I am sure you know what is best for you.

There has been much food for thought on the board lately; lots to think about and learn from. Always true to some degree, but I feel like even more lately. Or maybe I’m just in a better place to absorb it than I was a few months ago.

Wishing you continued healing, sleep, and of course, all the cake you want.
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#72: April 12, 2021, 10:47:44 AM
Glad to hear you are recovering, Nas.  I hope you regain your strength soon
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#73: April 12, 2021, 03:35:36 PM
You are really an inspiration, Nas! Wish you could have 3 weeks off like a normal human, you sure would deserve it. But I'm glad you've got your job that you appear to be very good at, so you have some control, at least that's what I think my salary is.

Hope you just keep getting better and betterx
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#74: April 13, 2021, 02:48:09 AM
Someone say "Cheesecake?"

Here's one like the one that I made for S14's Birthday.... Yes, it supposed to look like it is covered in mold...  ;D What can I say - 14-year-old boys....

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#75: April 15, 2021, 11:16:01 AM
Thanks, guys...but Uhhhhh...UM, I’ve been trying to kick the cheesecake addiction and that might’ve done the trick. 😂
(jk, I’ll never give up cheesecake, it’s literally my life’s only purpose rn. And for a teenage boy that looks like a cool bday cake. Is that Gorgonzola on top, lol?)

Figured I’d check in since my body gave out finally.  I fell asleep today without even realizing it in the middle of working. 😩 There’s got to be more to life. I just woke up disoriented and with a maddening crick in my neck.

A little Thursday jam for y’all. Not Duran Duran today, but a recent convo with a friend reminded me of this old favorite. (The lyrics are also happen to be pretty on target for today’s world as well)

https://youtu.be/o9ELnxa2jvY
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#76: April 16, 2021, 01:46:02 AM
Thanks, guys...but Uhhhhh...UM, I’ve been trying to kick the cheesecake addiction and that might’ve done the trick. 😂
(jk, I’ll never give up cheesecake, it’s literally my life’s only purpose rn. And for a teenage boy that looks like a cool bday cake. Is that Gorgonzola on top, lol?)

<Snort>

No, it is NOT cheese of any kind... ROFL

It is a butter/sugar/flour "Streusel" (Crumble) that is colored with green and blue food coloring....
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#77: April 17, 2021, 10:50:54 AM
I had a long, terrifying, explicit nightmare about my ex last night, the kind of vivid dream where you remember every detail after waking and it stays with you throughout the day, or even for a few days. It’s funny because he really never shows up in my dreams, and if he does, it’s usually as this amorphous entity in the corner of my field of vision. So this came out of nowhere and I saw his face very clearly and even heard his voice, which I’d nearly forgotten the sound of. 🤷‍♀️ Perhaps serving as a reminder to me that no matter how I once thought I knew him, he has become something else and has a lot to feel guilty about. (Not that I needed a reminder...)

🎶 https://youtu.be/cfrBSQT4wX8



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#78: April 18, 2021, 07:38:48 AM
Another very vivid dream last night (no ex this time). It’s apparently a weekend for dreaming.

Just a message for everyone, as I drink my coffee and eat a delicious piece of cheesecake that I am so thankful for:

There are so many seemingly insignificant things that matter so much.
So many times, without even knowing it, you have probably made someone laugh at the exact time they needed it most.
So many times, without even knowing it, you have made an positive impact on someone.

You matter. Please remember that the person who left and treats you like you don’t matter is lacking the ability to appreciate all the ways that you impacted them positively and all the ways that you loved them. Just because they can’t see it anymore, for now or maybe forever, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I’ve been reminding myself of this all weekend. And I will forget it over and over and have to keep re-reminding myself. Just thought I would share.

Happy Sunday, all.

https://youtu.be/PimWVcxj4zQ


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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#79: April 18, 2021, 12:26:00 PM
Nas, that was one of the most significant messages I've received. Maybe it was just the right time for me to read it, but it really makes me feel good. Thank you x
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#80: April 18, 2021, 02:21:38 PM
Thanks for the reminder Nas. One of the hardest things is feeling like you don’t matter. Like maybe you never mattered that much. I (like most of us!) need to be reminded over and over that that’s not true.
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#81: April 19, 2021, 07:11:28 AM
Thanks, Milly and Ever.  I know there are no words from anyone that can really replace those same words from the ONE person we thought we mattered most to.  It is hard.  It gets easier, but things with no answers are always hanging out there somewhere, right?  One of the hardest parts of life is lack of answers.  Acceptance of that takes a long time.

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#82: April 20, 2021, 08:02:20 AM
Dear Nas,

To acknowledge that ‘acceptance’ plays a big role in healing and that it takes a long time is wisdom. 

(((((HUGS)))))
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#83: April 20, 2021, 08:32:32 AM
I agree, Nas and Acorn. Acceptance is really hard to achieve and I remember knowing I had to get to this place, or hoping I'd get to this place. I'm not completely there yet, but well on my way to it, and it's a peaceful feeling for me.
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#84: April 28, 2021, 02:49:55 PM
Some quick journaling while the thought is still accessible (my mind seems more Swiss cheesy lately):

I was talking to my therapist and spurred the memory of something my mother said to me long long ago in my childhood. Some months after a very very very VERY traumatic event, I was clearly struggling but, being young, I didn’t have the language to express that I was struggling or the brain development to understand the magnitude of the event, and I wasn’t allowed to talk about it. The only thing my mother said to me about this huge thing- and by far not the worst thing she ever said to me, but in hindsight I think inarguably the single worst “advice” a child (or anyone) could ever be offered :
“Stop thinking about and you’ll eventually forget about it.“

Just a friendly reminder that time does not heal all wounds.
HEALING heals all wounds.

Shout out and huge kudos to those who have done/are doing the work to heal your present selves AND your inner child. You’re bad ass and I’m proud of you. ❤️
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#85: April 28, 2021, 06:25:25 PM
Quote
“Stop thinking about and you’ll eventually forget about it.“
.

I was told the same if or when I was upset about something. Nothing traumatic happened to me as a child and it was still an awful thing to have said to you.  After a traumatic event ?   It is just cruel and damaging. I am sorry that happened. My mother was very rejecting... have been told " stop talking about it or you will never get over it, forget about it , you have to learn to get over things, why are you still talking about it etc?.  Horrible .

What I did learn however was to NEVER do that to my girls and I NEVER have.  We are better educated than our mothers or we learned from them what NOT to do.   To this day, if I was to bring up anything painful or "old" , my mother would dismiss it and say " Its a shame you cannot get over things "...and change the subject.   So I never try to talk about anything besides the weather .
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#86: April 28, 2021, 08:14:35 PM
I was reading something awhile back and in the article it said “humans are built to heal”. I thought this was such a wonderfully comforting thought.
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#87: May 01, 2021, 09:07:00 AM


Just journaling. Been thinking about the idea of victims and victimhood lately. Right after my diagnosis, a woman in my cancer support group once called herself a victim of cancer. I never really thought much about it but it didn’t sit well with me, that use of the word victim.

At first I thought maybe I had joined a support group too early, before I had really been able to even process what I was dealing with. But the more time went on, I realized she meant that cancer was still actively hurting her in many ways, physically, financially, emotionally. But I still don’t think that I would use the word victim there, though I respect her right to use it and now sort of understand her meaning.

I am not *currently* a victim of my former husband. Even though he’s vanished, shown no concern for my well-being and left me with nothing, I am not actively being victimized by him. Did he cause me distress and pain and hardship in every way, physically, financially, emotionally? Oh hell yes he did. More than I ever could have imagined the man I knew for two decades could ever do.

And for sure I am still dealing with all of the consequences of his choices, his unilateral choices in what I thought was a solid partnership. And his choices even after he callously informed me that the partnership was over.

I was thrown off a cliff by him, but I am not actively being victimized by him. He is gone, off somewhere living his new life. The only way I would still be actively victimized is if I chose to continue to ruminate on it, and then I would be actively victimizing myself.

This of course absolves him of nothing, because his choices were despicable, his actions were brutal and soulless.  And he is a course to blame, but on the other hand, blaming him does me no good and moves me not one step forward.

It’s human to still think about the things in the past that hurt us tremendously. It’s human to ask why. And at first, in the immediate time after BD, when we’re on the floor not knowing what the heck just happened, we are the victims of a BD.

But there is a point where we have to move from being the victim of the event to being the person dealing with the consequences of the event. Otherwise no healing can occur. No matter whose fault it is, no matter how horrifying the fallout is, no amount of blame or rumination can change it or move things forward. If I had continued to view myself as his “victim,” I never would have moved to another state - and even though that was cut short by my sudden diagnosis, that move was really good for me in many ways.
If I had continued to see myself as his victim, I think the emotional toll would have eaten me from the inside out by now.

For any newbies who might be reading, I’m sorry for your pain. We all remember it well. That early time is soul crushing and it’s an accomplishment when you get through every day, so give yourself credit. But know that there really is a lot of truth and wisdom in the statement “live as though they’re not coming back.“
No matter who caused the mess, we do still have to clean it up, and we only make it harder on ourselves when we continue to see ourselves as victims of (thus giving undue power to) the person who caused the mess that we are trying to clean up.

I don’t know if this makes any sense, but just some thoughts on this gray Saturday morning.
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#88: May 01, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
Makes sense to me!  :) 

After the initial burn in the early years of all of this started to subside a little, I remembered back to what I learned from Steven Pressfield's "The War of Art" about resistance. It helped me allow all of the stages of grief to fully do their thing, even when I really didn't want them to. Blaming? Victimizing myself? I'm stuck in the anger phase and resisting acceptance. Telling myself he'll wake up out of this tomorrow and we'll get our life back? Or thinking every move he makes is somehow about me and we are still actively in some sort of relationship? I'm stuck in the denial phase and resisting acceptance. Thinking I can tolerate this/that/the other if it guarantees at the end we'll be back together? I'm stuck in the bargaining phase and resisting acceptance.

The book isn't about grief - it's about art. It's about how creatives don't create because of resistance. But it applies to everything. We are alive, yet this happens and we somehow stop ourselves from living because the conditions of our lives don't match what we want them to be. We resist moving forward because of what we fear we're leaving behind.

In terms of the LBS experience, I know other people can relate to that, because over the last 10 years I've heard countless stories (and lived my own) and know that the only thing to a Stander that's scarier than Monster and what they do to us is when they stop. When they're normal, or even just when they're silent - but they're not returning. If we're not ready for that proof of discard, and the resistance of cognitive dissonance is a real thing with seemingly unlimited power, we'll create the scenarios we need to in order to give their ghost more substance. Once you're in acceptance, it's hard to see it in others. We can try to shed light on it, but we can't pull them out of it.

Sorry for the hijack. You've been such a willing participant in growth and healing, and I am always so inspired by your reflections.
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#89: May 01, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
Excellent posts, Nas and Ready2!  Thank you for sharing your thoughts.


But there is a point where we have to move from being the victim of the event to being the person dealing with the consequences of the event. Otherwise no healing can occur. No matter whose fault it is, no matter how horrifying the fallout is, no amount of blame or rumination can change it or move things forward.


Yes!  I couldn’t agree more.

Validation is helpful, especially at the beginning of LBS journey when he/she is in the post-BD nursery.  However, I suggest that validation can be overused and it may turn into enabling LBS’s ‘victimhood.’  That doesn’t help anyone to heal and move forward. 

Here is a quiz for anyone interested.  Be totally honest with yourself...

Quick: Rate how much you agree with each of these items on a scale of 1 (“not me at all”) to 5 (“this is so me”):

1. It is important to me that people who hurt me acknowledge that an injustice has been done to me.

2. I think I am much more conscientious and moral in my relations with other people compared to their treatment of me.

3. When people who are close to me feel hurt by my actions, it is very important for me to clarify that justice is on my side.

4. It is very hard for me to stop thinking about the injustice others have done to me.





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« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 11:23:03 AM by Acorn »
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#90: May 01, 2021, 07:35:26 PM
Quote
Here is a quiz for anyone interested.  Be totally honest with yourself...

I honestly wish I'd asked myself these things at the beginning of this process. Guaranteed, my answers would be very different than now! Vindication was so important, along with validation. One of the 'gifts' of this has been my ability to understand that others had the right to interpret their own feelings, without justifying mine. EVEN the long gone spouse. My response is my responsibility. Their response is not. We are all free.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#91: May 02, 2021, 11:45:53 AM
Quote
Here is a quiz for anyone interested.  Be totally honest with yourself...

I honestly wish I'd asked myself these things at the beginning of this process. Guaranteed, my answers would be very different than now! Vindication was so important, along with validation. One of the 'gifts' of this has been my ability to understand that others had the right to interpret their own feelings, without justifying mine. EVEN the long gone spouse. My response is my responsibility. Their response is not. We are all free.

No kidding, Ready2.  If I had taken the quiz as a newbie, I would have scored 6-8 out of 5 for the majority of those questions. ;D

So, if you have taken the quiz and was brutally honest with yourself, good for you.

Here is the comment given below the quiz:

If you scored high (4 or 5) on all of these items, you may have what psychologists have identified as a “tendency for interpersonal victimhood.”

The rest of the article might be useful to some people for their EQ advancement.   I highly recommend it.

Here it is:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unraveling-the-mindset-of-victimhood/

Have a great Sunday!


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« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 11:48:28 AM by Acorn »
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#92: May 03, 2021, 06:09:34 AM
For those with no time to read the article, here is a little snippet:

Rahav Gabay and her colleagues define this tendency for interpersonal victimhood as “an ongoing feeling that the self is a victim, which is generalized across many kinds of relationships. As a result, victimization becomes a central part of the individual’s identity.” Those who have a perpetual victimhood mindset tend to have an “external locus of control”; they believe that one’s life is entirely under the control of forces outside one’s self, such as fate, luck or the mercy of other people.

Based on clinical observations and research, the researchers found that the tendency for interpersonal victimhood consists of four main dimensions:

(a) constantly seeking recognition for one’s victimhood,
(b) moral elitism,
(c) lack of empathy for the pain and suffering of others,
(d) frequently ruminating about past victimization.
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« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 06:51:04 AM by Acorn »
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#93: May 03, 2021, 09:02:13 AM
That was one for the bookmarks! Thank you, Acorn.

Quote
(c) lack of empathy for the pain and suffering of others

This is really the kicker, isn't it? It can be subtle, too.
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#94: May 06, 2021, 06:47:12 PM
I’m sure many can relate to this and my hope is that it really crystallizes for many people at a certain point after BD (even if you knew it before BD), but something I’m really grateful for lately is that I know who *I* am. Not who I am professionally, because due to specific choices made for specific reasons in the life I was living, I have a job but not a career. But I know who I am as a person, meaning I know my values and beliefs, I know my intentions and I know my limitations and flaws, and which of those need immediate attention and which things I might need to reevaluate.

I started writing this post last week and kept getting interrupted and then I wasn’t sure if I even wanted to post this week, but I’m going to. Because I’ve been doing a lot of work and it’s work I wish I had done a long time ago (even before I got married) so if I can help even just one person with my anecdotes, I’m good with that.
I don’t know if I’m just noticing more or if the number really is increasing, but it’s just so heartbreaking every time you see a newbie sign up for the forum.

Seeing your spouse change in what seems like literally overnight fashion is truly crazy making and leaves you with your head spinning for quite some time. When I first came to this forum, I was a shell of myself. I was going through the motions in my daily life. I wasn’t sleeping. I wasn’t eating. I was up all night scouring the Internet for happy ending and reconciliation stories.

I did NOT want to hear that the odds were against me. And I was not taking the loss very well. I recall in one of my early posts not long after learning about the affair that I simply just typed in all caps “I HATE HIM” over and over. LOL. But I sure as hell wasn’t laughing then. (I remember hearing somewhere that the body releases hormones after giving birth that help women forget the pain of childbirth. I don’t know if that’s true, I never fact checked it. But I definitely remember wishing that my body would release something - anything- that would help me forget the pain of finding out that my husband had a girlfriend.)

One of the first things I heard when I got here was, “he’s probably not going to come back and if he does, it won’t last.”
I also heard that, “he’s re-coupled now and you need to live your life as though that’s the case.“ God, I was indignant. What did anyone know about MY marriage?

And the most important thing I heard here on the forum was something I had also heard from my therapist at the time: the pain that you feel when your spouse leaves is intense, and likely has its roots somewhere else. If you can dig into those roots and work on healing that, that’s more important than saving your marriage.

I’m going to share two things and one is a story from my past that I’ll recount as vaguely as possible and with no real details.

So the first lesson for me was: My parents split up just before I turned 13. And after my father left, I had to pay room and board to my mother. At a time when all of my friends were starting to get an allowance, I was having to get babysitting jobs and other things in order to give money to my mother. Which I guess instilled in me the idea that in order to be accepted and loved or even have a home, I needed to pay my way.  That’s important for me to know, because it played deeply into the dynamics of my relationship and marriage. I carried him on my health insurance as a domestic partner for a ridiculous amount of money before we were even married. I bought “our” house. I paid the mortgage and all the expenses while he went back to school for something he never even ended up pursuing. And etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Now the question that I was left with after facing this head on was how much was he to blame, when it was the dynamics that were ingrained in me as a child.
Was it unconscionable of him to rack up a ton of debt and blow through every cent of the hard earned money I had saved before taking off to live with his affair partner? For sure.
But is 100% of the blame on him, or do I have to accept that I played into it because of my own FOO? I think I have to own my part in not learning that I shouldn’t have to buy love and I deserved someone who wasn’t such a taker.

Second lesson: This man from my past has been trying to reach me since around last holiday season. The quick rundown of how I know him is when I was 13, I got a job after school and Friday nights taking care of this awesome woman’s children (see lesson #1 above). I used to daydream that her and her boyfriend would ask me to come live with them because she was like absolutely perfect in my eyes and he was so kind and fatherly to me. I just loved them.
One night I fell asleep while babysitting so I ended up sleeping there and long story very, very short, that was the night he stabbed her to death.

I don’t know if he’s now on his worldwide redemption tour or what. He’s been out of prison for way too many years now - I think. I’m not exactly sure because I really honestly didn’t even think about many things from my past- not that I buried it so deep that I forgot about it but I think my relationships and then my marriage were keeping me occupied just enough that I didn’t really think about it - until BD when my husband’s sudden personality change resurfaced this trauma of thinking you know someone who suddenly becomes something completely different.  I never followed what happened to him, and I’m ashamed to say I also never kept track of the kids after their relatives came and took them.

But now I think about that night and what I heard and saw and I think about those kids and what they have also lived with and carried with them all their lives. I hope they are married now with families of their own (if that’s what they wanted). And I hope against all hope that this man has not tried to contact them.
I don’t want to hear his story, or his apology, or his reason, or his amends or whatever it is he thinks he needs to contact me about.
But what I’ve had to face is that one of the reasons I was shaken to my core by the end of my marriage and then so thrown into a tailspin by my parents deaths was because I never dealt with this trauma that happened so many years ago. Which seems so obvious, but really wasn’t all that obvious to me.

Anyway, these are *my* stories and *my* lessons. Others here may have their own stories… Or not. But digging into ourselves can often be helpful. And we talk a lot about how the MLCer has deep rooted FOO issues, but it’s not just them. And their FOO issues certainly don’t absolve them of their terrible behavior, and not everyone with deep rooted FOO issues grows up to have an MLC.
There’s layer upon layer upon layer of nuance in everyone’s stories. And sometimes it just comes down to things happen and once they happen, they can’t *unhappen* so all we can do is move forward as best we can, knowing who we are and what we value.

(unrelated to the above, my mantra all week has been, and I’m sure many of you have seen this in memes or elsewhere: in my limited time on this planet, it does not serve me to spend time and energy explaining myself to people committed to misunderstanding me.)
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#95: May 07, 2021, 11:10:24 AM
Thank you, Nas, for sharing your story.  It takes a lot of courage to share your experiences which may be described as ‘traumatic.’

Your post immediately reminded me of a podcast I recently listened while walking in the forest and then twice more(!) when I got home.  It was about ‘editing’ our story to change the way we make sense of our lives.  The actual events in the past — which obliviously cannot be altered — are seen from several different angles and that introspection may change our perspective which can empower us to live as more enlightened and better human beings. 

The following is a small section of Lori Gottlieb’s (a psychotherapist) talk, ‘How Changing Your Story Can Change Your Life.’

“All of us walk around with stories about our lives. Why choices were made, why things went wrong, why we treated someone a certain way — because obviously, they deserved it [😄]— why someone treated us a certain way  — even though, obviously, we didn’t [😄]. Stories are the way we make sense of our lives.

But what happens when the stories we tell are misleading or incomplete or just wrong?

Well, instead of providing clarity, these stories keep us stuck. We assume that our circumstances shape our stories. But what I found time and again in my work is that the exact opposite happens.

The way we narrate our lives shapes what they become. That’s the danger of our stories, because they can really mess us up, but it’s also their power.

Because what it means is that if we can change our stories, then we can change our lives. And today, I want to show you how.

But part of getting to know yourself is to unknow yourself. To let go of the one version of the story you’ve been telling yourself so that you can live your life, and not the story that you’ve been telling yourself about your life.”

I think you are ‘editing’ (to see it from a different angle) your story which you summarized as ‘ There’s layer upon layer upon layer of nuance in everyone’s stories.’  To delve into those layers is to carefully ‘edit’ the stories we tell ourselves so that we do not stay stuck in our favourite version of personal story.  Go girl, keep editing and peeling back those layers.   

The  rest of the talk can be found in the following link.  It’s quite humourous too! 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O_MQr4lHm0c
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« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 12:34:37 PM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD. 
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

H never left home.

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#96: May 07, 2021, 12:16:19 PM
I am so sorry you had to pay your mom after your father left. Did he ever make an effort to support you? And did your mom ever explain what was behind her decision?

I think what you say about our taking ownership of our FOO issues is absolutely on the money. I did an assessment that came back with a very high score of life event trauma: early death of a parent, immigration, parent suffering loss and trauma (my father was a war orphan and refugee at age 13 and my mom was bombed on as a child), parental infidelity, physical abuse (from my school system mostly), etc. Like your therapist said, I think the terrible sense of loss from my ex-H's departure is fed by the many-headed hydra of my past.

So I am very sorry to hear about your experience. The murder sounds horrific. You do however sound wonderfully introspective and resolute in working on yourself. Thank you for the inspiring insights. They mean a lot to me.

May your days be filled with the light and bliss you have imparted.
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#97: May 07, 2021, 01:17:17 PM
It does take great courage, just as Acorn says, to lay out these tattered fragments of our own most vulnerable times, I hope it was cathartic for you, Nas, as part of speaking your truth about your own story. I have no doubt at all that it will help others reading along.

There is something so simple....but so hard to see until we stumble into that place....about the need to change our story. Not to rewrite it wholesale like our spouses seem to do.
To unpick it in order to evolve it.
And to accept that for a while perhaps we just don’t want to or that we have no idea what it was/is after this kind of experience. So thank you Acorn for sharing that link which I will listen to tomorrow.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#98: May 07, 2021, 03:23:54 PM
Which seems so obvious, but really wasn’t all that obvious to me.
This. When things happen to us, we deal with it whatever way we have available to us and if it was not dealt with in the optimal way, we have no idea. We have no idea that will come back and haunt us because we thought we'd gotten past it.  Recognizing it as something that might really be an unresolved issue that we thought we had resolved is not really all that obvious. How could it be?

All experiences shape who you become. It's often difficult when we realize that isn't the shape we want to be and have to re-mold parts.
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#99: May 07, 2021, 09:08:35 PM

There is something so simple....but so hard to see until we stumble into that place....about the need to change our story. Not to rewrite it wholesale like our spouses seem to do.

Thank you for highlighting that Treasur. The rewriting is something that I have been mulling over. My ex told me he married the wrong person. This was 18 months after BD. I'd been living at Divorcebusting.com and here, and knew the script like the back of my hand. He had moved thousands of miles and switched countries to be with me, and our marriage had lasted almost two decades.

I had to bite back the retort: "How can someone who made that egregious a mistake for that long, if indeed it were true, ever be certain again that he is right about love? If you were that wrong about me, how can you be sure you're right about your current paramour?"

Having said that...

In my particular case, I had made many errors and lapses during our marriage, and I can see how they drove him away. He was a wonderful husband who went above and beyond: he made more money, took care of a lot of logistics, managed money, planned vacations and outings, made repairs, made friends, and was a wonderful lover. He was so finely attuned to my moods I could have played him like an instrument. (I never did and I am sure that's why we lasted as long as we did, but his FOO - emotionally negligent and abusive parenting -- made him dance attendance on his partner.)

I was dreamy, somewhat impractical, idealistic, detested grunt work, and had the ADHD obsessive bent that forged me a couple of high-visibility careers where I was often emotionally absent. I knew he did a ton for me and, noting that he would fall into despondency from overwork and stress, often wanted to tell him he did not need to do so much for me. But a combination of selfishness and fear of hurting his feelings always stopped me. I loved him a lot, but sadly my self-indulgence was even stronger.

So I accept his script to some extent, but don't believe his entire rewriting. A lot of it I believe are circumstances: my illness, unemployment, and his bereavement (he lost two close relatives in quick succession and his mother fell quite ill.) The first two were a drag on him, and understandably so. He to some extent saw the unemployment as my own fault, since I did struggle to go back into the professional world after my career burnout. So I can understand why he felt he should not be dragged down by someone who won't help herself.

I loved and still love our marriage, and think for me personally it would be a great loss if I come to see it as wasted and vitiated years, as he now does. How to turn that love into strength and brightness for my future is a question that I have been grappling with. I even think I've got somewhere with it!

Like Nas, I'd been tackling my demons. Mirror work has been invaluable. And now when I think about him, and any number of incidents, episodes and periods from our 20 years together:

Having brunch after a long flight on the river in Amsterdam, laughing over the MacDonald's housed in what we declared must have been a Renaissance building ( I know it doesn't add up in architectural history terms);
Running through the grounds of a dilapidated diplomatic compound in Asia on a howling wintry night to the tiny hideout where a sullen Russian guy, probably doubling as a spy, rented out movie videos;
Walking our tween daughter through our newly bought house

I can occasionally sublimate the wild despair and raging sense of loss. They directly turn into a radiant peace and loving musing -- it's as if Artemis had kicked Zeus to one side (as he so richly deserved) and saved Danae in a wave of silver bliss. I now finally have started to love myself and can extend that love to him, without hope or pain, who is thousands of miles away, with a new partner and, for all that I know, already married to her.

I don't know if this would last. It's taken me 35 months to get this far, a year after the divorce.  Maybe it's just a phase. Couldn't have done it without this forum. My deepest gratitude to everyone.

"The relationships we have in life last forever. They last in our memories, in the feelings we have when we think of them, in who we have become because of them, and in the lessons we take from them."
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« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 09:21:29 PM by sachertorte »

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#100: May 08, 2021, 11:34:30 AM
Thank you all for the replies and insight.  :)

Acorn, that Ted Talk is SO good, I would highly encourage everyone to take the just shy of 17 minutes to give it a listen.  Thank you so much for sharing it.  I imagine I'll listen to it many more times myself. 

I think for us LBS, it's very, very important not to conflate the idea of rewriting history with this idea (beautifully discussed in the Ted Talk) of editing our own narratives and stories so that we're not "victims"...or even so that we're not "bad guys," which we can often think we are, especially early on.

Initially, in the days after BD, I took on all the blame for everything.  I absorbed every bit of blame - I was pre-programmed to do so.  I was thinking of this as I sat at a red light one day last fall.  I was just sitting there waiting for the light to turn green and I heard the familiar sound of an angry car horn beeping over and over. 
It made me remember this:  I left home at 17 and I had to do a lot of work after that to lose the constant (and I mean constant) anxiety that I had done something wrong or was at fault for everything in the damn world and was always just seconds away from being told I was to blame for something.  To the point that whenever I was driving and I heard a car horn, even if it was very distant, I would instantly start looking around and thinking, "Oh no, what did I do wrong?  I must've cut someone off or something..." 

So I guess I've been "editing" myself without knowing it for a long, long time.  I've also been the "protagonist walking around in circles" a lot. And through the course of my long but still relatively short life, I've both given and received well-meaning "idiot compassion."  (Seriously, listen to that Ted Talk Acorn shared, have I mentioned it's really, really good???)

The truth is we are all human, and our spouses hurt us but the other players in the story only hold as much power as we give them in our story.
We can give them a starring role by focusing on them a lot, or we can relegate them to a mere extra barely visible in the scene. 
As an example, in the immediate aftermath, the OW had above the title billing in MY story.  And why did I give her such a status, when I'm the main character in this story?  I've since been given a raised eyebrow IRL lots of times for stating out loud that the OW in my situation is a mom, a daughter, a friend and a sister, and that she's likely very loved by other people - in fact, to her children, she's probably the most important person in the world.  She's not my favorite person  ::), for damn sure, but that's my story.  Her kids would disagree and so would a lot of other people. 

We want justice, which is so natural, especially for the really terrible things that happen during the course of the  absolutely-not-at-all-normal-nope-not-even-close-to-normal-in-fact-ab-so-firetrucking-lutely-bonkers-crazy-painful ends to our marriages.  And in my story, my former H has a lot to be held accountable for.

But I also have to accept that his own story, he may never see it that way.  And in someone else's story, likely in a fair amount of people's stories, my former H is not a villain at all.  They don't know all the details, they're constructing their own narratives...and that's just how it is and it's actually normal.  I think of all the people I've ever known in my life and for all I know, some of them could have a past that includes emotionally and financially destroying someone.  Everyone doesn't need to know my story or view my former H as a villain for me to move forward. 

When we first get BDed, it's normal to feel like everyone MUST hear our story and know our truth.  Everyone must know what really happened.  How can anyone in the world be supportive of the person who did us so much harm.  But that feeling has to subside in order for us to heal at all, because the truth is this: the world at large simply doesn't care, because that entire world doesn't revolve around us and in fact, they really don't think about us much at all.  We're not main characters in their narrative.  We're hardly bit players.  So why do we care so much what other people think about the way our story played out?  They're not thinking about it at all, so why waste energy worrying about what they think our story is?

Anyhoo....about 3 sentences in I was aware I'd totally lost the thread of what I originally wanted to express and went off on a tangent.  If I remember my original point, I'll try to share it before it evaporates again, lol.   :P

Happy Saturday, all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dh_vh7nLAU
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 11:36:31 AM by Nas »

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#101: May 09, 2021, 04:55:04 PM
what a topic... very helpful..
That Ted talk was really good.
Thank you.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#102: May 09, 2021, 05:12:26 PM
I agree, billyluke, on both counts! Listened twice so far on the TedTalk, and I'm sure I'll be doing it again.

I realized through some recent events that I had gotten the biggest gift back that had been lost immediately at BD:  the ability to view the narrative from my own perspective, without even having the urge to try to figure out someone else's (specifically, my former spouse's) brain. This quickened my time in re-grounding myself and lowering my anxiety. My father actually said, "You seem SO calm," which I think are words he has never uttered to me.  ;D I was a nervous kid, and this situation, though initially ramping it up a million fold, seems to have actually given me a way to work through that.

Before starting yet another tributary that leads away from your main point, I will just say, thank you for this, and please keep leading the way on the healing path!
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#103: May 10, 2021, 03:52:12 PM
Quote
Before starting yet another tributary that leads away from your main point, I will just say, thank you for this, and please keep leading the way on the healing path!

I want to second that! Very happy to be part of the team. And taking to heart the lesson that it's okay not to try to plumb the MLCer's mind. You rock guys!
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 03:16:09 AM by UrsaMajor »

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#104: May 12, 2021, 09:09:08 AM
There’s so much that can be mined from that one Ted Talk, I’m still untangling thoughts.

*“But what happens when the stories we tell are misleading or incomplete or just wrong?”~ Lori Gotlieb

I think more often than not, our stories are “incomplete.” We simply don’t have all the information, about other’s stories, or even our own (we’ve forgotten, or we just don’t know), and we fill in the blanks with things that often cause us more pain.  Oh, the MLCer did/said/didn’t do/didn’t say X, Y or Z – well, it was because of A, B or C… we really have no idea, and the blanks we fill in can often cause unnecessary emotional distress.

You’ve all heard me talk about how my vanisher H changed his phone number while I was in chemo. And that in itself is just not how someone you lived with for almost two decades behaves, even if they don’t “love” you anymore.

*“The way we narrate our lives shapes what they become.” ~ Lori Gotlieb

The narration of our lives starts in childhood.  Here’s a little tiny bit of the incomplete part of my “he changed his phone number” story:
Over my time on this forum, I’ve shared a mere speck of a tiny frayed thread of a small patch of my chaotic (to put it mildly) childhood/FOO, but enough so that it won’t come as a surprise that I was still trying so hard to be good enough that I was paying for some things for my mother, including her cellphone, well into my adult life.
After we sold our house (in what I now see was the start of my former H’s unraveling/fracturing), I was struggling to juggle ALL “our” bills (my money was our money and his money was his money – more shame in letting that be okay) and I told her I was so sorry but I could no longer cover her phone, but I gave her 3 months advanced notice and wrote her out a step by step guide on how to switch to her own plan and port her longtime phone number, etc.

True to her unhealed nature, she said no problem, then waited until the last minute and changed providers, got a new phone number and didn’t give it to me.  Didn’t even tell me she did it. I didn’t hear from her again until 3 years later, when she found out - a month into my treatment - that I had cancer.  In the between years, I had gone from my living in what I'm now calling my "idiot bubble" of a life where I was safe and loved to losing everything; I was BDed and going through all other kinds of hell that followed.  She had heard all about all of those things as well, but never tried to reach out. 
And when she finally did reach out, even then, she texted me (incoming text as I was hooked up to an IV, from a number I didn’t recognize, since it wasn’t a contact in my phone) and the very first line of her text was, “I know you probably don’t want to hear from me, but…”- as if she was the victim and I was withholding myself from her. When in my reality, I had spent over 40 years shamefully, desperately trying to win the love she withheld constantly (and frankly was incapable of giving), especially when something upset her or I didn’t perform to her expectations. And especially if I wasn’t providing her some tangible benefit.

She finally agreed to attend a therapy session with me – finally – just before she died suddenly.  (I was still doing all kind of work to “fix” our relationship – I was the one setting it up with my then IC...more shame, for being abandoned over and over but continuing on chasing and chasing my tail.) Her death was very, very quick and unexpected, and so that story will always remain “incomplete.”

So that’s the until-now-missing info when I talk about my former H changing his phone number at a time when I literally thought I was going to die, just a little more clarity as to why it hit me as such a shameful thing. He was there when my mother did that and he saw how it affected me, how I took her dysfunctional action on as if it were my own failure. And I could sit here and tell myself over and over how cruel it was of him to do the same and how I wasn’t good enough for him either and how he only “loved” me when I was providing a tangible benefit. 

Or I can recognize that he has his own FOO issues, and I’ll NEVER know exactly why he did it, so I can tell myself the version that causes me more pain: he did it because I really don't matter and never did.  Or I can tell myself a different version: he most likely also saw changing his phone number the most immediate solution to avoid being accountable to me and to bill collectors.

I still flip flop on that story. And I still feel shame over it, shame both about the story itself and about my flip flopping.

*”But part of getting to know yourself is to unknow yourself. To let go of the one version of the story you’ve been telling yourself so that you can live your life, and not the story that you’ve been telling yourself about your life.”~Lori Gotlieb

Seems so simple, doesn’t it?  :-[

There's so much more, but this post is already way too long.

Happy Wednesday, all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epj84QVw2rc
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« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 09:42:46 AM by Nas »

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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#105: May 12, 2021, 10:31:40 AM
Not too long at all. Thank you for sharing this with us. A lot that is relatable here.

Quote
*”But part of getting to know yourself is to unknow yourself. To let go of the one version of the story you’ve been telling yourself so that you can live your life, and not the story that you’ve been telling yourself about your life.”~Lori Gotlieb

I've struggled with this because I don't want to lose those parts of my story (and my view of myself) that I love, and I fear they are dependent on the other parts. It takes a lot of sifting and working through that to know that I can let them stay without any more loss. Or so it feels!

And one of my favorite songs of theirs!  8)
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#106: May 12, 2021, 08:25:18 PM
I love what you said about keeping  the parts of your story that you love but those parts wouldn’t exist without, or are somehow dependent on other parts you might not love as much.
No more loss is the key. FFS, no more loss, for any of us...

It’s one of my favorite songs of theirs also!
I love the premise of asking whether something that feels so deep is actually fake. All too relatable to the post-BD WTFness. 😞 But also applies to so much of life in general.

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#107: May 12, 2021, 11:11:37 PM
Quote
I've struggled with this because I don't want to lose those parts of my story (and my view of myself) that I love, and I fear they are dependent on the other parts. It takes a lot of sifting and working through that to know that I can let them stay without any more loss. Or so it feels!

Me too, Ready2, me too.

Letting go of my h and marriage was much easier than letting go of the bit of my story that was ‘our story’.
I liked that story, really liked it and it felt authentic. Until, self-evidently, the story changed. Tbh I hung onto that story like a limpet lol. I was attached to it. Partly bc I liked it so much and hated some of the alternative stories which all seemed to suck big time  ::). Mostly maybe bc it left me just not knowing what that bit of my story actually was...just a big question mark....and living with a twenty year question mark is pretty uncomfortable  :)

I wrestled with the mind monkeys of that for a long time. Then I think I just gave up bc I was too exhausted to think about it at all. Now I guess, slowly, I have been letting bits pop up and find their own rightful spot as part of my own recovery.....and it is easier to accept that the story was changed irrecoverably at BD. Well, unbeknownst to me, a bit before BD probably. And that, regardless of what had happened after BD, the story had changed. Been rewritten by others, sure, but it had changed for me too. It felt a bit like reading a classic whodunnit for a second time when you know whodunnit lol....your interpretation of the characters and events in the story is coloured differently bc you know that it wasn’t the sinister butler who did it but the charming cousin  :)

I think we all find our own story after this experience....or how we want to edit the bit of ‘my’ story that was ‘ours’. And what to do with bits where it feels like the pages are missing lol. There are times, as Nas says, when it is important imho to choose bits of the story that do not create more self-inflicted damage that feels unliveable. There are other times when it is important to force oneself to see painful realities in order to write something authentic and solid. Something Safe. Tricky sometimes to judge when to do one and when to do the other. Denial is imho a necessary defence mechanism but it can turn into a kind of magical thinking that keeps us in an old story or one that doesn’t help us. Like little Red Riding Hood faced with the blindingly obvious wolf in grandma’s shawl lol. I suspect many of us LBS would do better in the first year or so to see a Wolf and respond accordingly rather than hoping for the reappearance of the lovely familiar grandma on our next visit to the little house in the forest  :).....but we all know how hard it is to wrestle our brains into doing so  ::)

You can avoid the story edit for a bit by living in the moment or by getting embroiled in someone else’s version of the story.....but I think eventually you do have to find your own version that you can live with. And that is probably true whether you reconcile, stay loosely connected or whether they disappear from your story in a puff of smoke or like a careless author forgot to tie up a loose end in the whodunnit :)

Very thought-provoking TED talk though....pretty useful perhaps for recovering Vets a few years down the path after they are off the MLC battlefield  :)
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« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 11:17:27 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
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Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#108: May 13, 2021, 06:26:55 AM
Thank you, Nas, for sharing your own process of ‘unknowing’ some part of you, which invariably leads to more questions, flip-flopping and the painstaking re-knitting of your story.  I dare say that is what a person, who is willing to work on self and go beyond just ‘existing,’ invariably experiences.  That’s how we grow, instead of stagnating in false assumptions and narratives, don’t you think?

Quote
”But part of getting to know yourself is to unknow yourself. To let go of the one version of the story you’ve been telling yourself so that you can live your life, and not the story that you’ve been telling yourself about your life.”~Lori Gotlieb

Seems so simple, doesn’t it?

Simple?  It couldn’t be more complicated!  Yeah, life IS complicated…

The way I take it is that to ‘unknow’ is not about erasing one’s identity and history but it is about discovering and developing different perspectives of them.  One hopes that the narrative of victimhood and putting glitter over certain parts of our experiences to fuel the fantasy of ‘what-used-to-be’ can be put out on the curbside.  That is perhaps one of the many tools to help us live each and everyday in joy and contentment. 

External ‘fixing,’ such as exercise, joining a hobby group, etc. could bring enjoyment and some measure of happy-ness as long as those activities are in session, and could aid in readjusting one’s mental attitude to life a bit.  However, if these external fixings can only go so far if your core self is still stuck in deep sighs and disbelief about what happened in your life. 

Something else:

It occurred to me that’s the process my husband went through for years.  (Some call it ‘MLC.’)  The first part of his crisis was to ‘unknow’ himself; the second part was about re-knitting himself together.  Ironically, he emerged as a person who closely resembles the one he tried to ‘unknow,’ but he had to go through it to make it his own. 
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« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 06:46:14 AM by Acorn »
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#109: May 13, 2021, 07:17:57 AM
Thank you, Nas, for sharing your own process of ‘unknowing’ some part of you, which invariably leads to more questions, flip-flopping and the painstaking re-knitting of your story.  I dare say that is what a person, who is willing to work on self and go beyond just ‘existing,’ invariably experiences.  That’s how we grow, instead of stagnating in false assumptions and narratives, don’t you think?


Thank you, Acorn.  :-[ I am ashamed to say that I feel I've been "existing instead of living" for most of the time since my diagnosis - though I did have a few months pre-dx in the new city where I had started to feel like I was living again.  Treasur posted a very interesting article on her thread this morning that also touches on the existing vs. living topic.  I wish I had read it earlier because I'm speaking (via Zoom of course) at a cancer summit this weekend and trying to get my speech just right, and now I have a whole new speech I want to write but no time to do so, lol.






The way I take it is that to ‘unknow’ is not about erasing one’s identity and history but it is about discovering and developing different perspectives of them.  One hopes that the narrative of victimhood and putting glitter over certain parts of our experiences to fuel the fantasy of ‘what-used-to-be’ can be put out on the curbside.  That is perhaps one of the many tools to help us live each and everyday in joy and contentment. 


Love love love this.  I do think early on it's sometimes tempting to hold on to the feeling of victimhood because letting go of it seems like letting the person(s) who causes us pain "off the hook."  But stepping out of the role of victim doesn't in any way diminish the experience(s) we've had.  And as for the people who cause us harm, they have to deal with themselves - or not - but it's out of our control and imo it's a form of self-harm to hold onto pain/victimhood in order to try to make them see the harm they've caused.

Anyway, thanks so much, guys, for your thoughts and insight.  Always appreciated and always gives me something to chew on. 

And oh, these lyrics for the Thursday journey  :-*:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2DJLuVKlt8
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#110: May 13, 2021, 08:21:56 AM
Thank you all so much for this discussion. The insight from Acorn that this is also what happens in MLC is valuable as well... though admittedly, too many MLCers get stuck in the unknowing phase and find themselves unable to learn their true stories.

I suppose that happens for some of us, too - the “unknowing” phase happens (or at least starts) suddenly and traumatically for the LBS, and then we are left to trim away the ragged edges to get to a place where the wound is clean so we can figure out how to stitch it back together again. It’s hard to know how much to trim away - the idea of losing even one more bit of our self feels almost more painful than the initial trauma, but you need clean margins to minimize the scarring.

I also like the perspective that unknowing isn’t about erasing one’s history, and fixing isn’t about plastering over the surface with surface level changes or distractions. The changes that lead to a healthy life and outlook are incredibly powerful changes at the very foundation of who we are... but in many cases, someone looking at us superficially might not see the changes at all. We know the power of those changes, though, and I think those who truly know us are also aware of them (as shown by the changes in your h, Acorn - perhaps almost invisible to an outsider looking in, but readily apparent to you and to him).
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#111: May 13, 2021, 08:44:03 AM
Quote
I am ashamed to say that I feel I've been "existing instead of living" for most of the time since my diagnosis - though I did have a few months pre-dx in the new city where I had started to feel like I was living again.

Sorry, Nas, I beg to differ.  You were ‘valiantly fighting’ with all you had, and not merely ‘existing’! 

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fixing isn’t about plastering over the surface with surface level changes or distractions

Agree, Curiosity. 

Those ‘surface level changes or distractions’ are immensely helpful when we start off our journey of healing.  One would hope those changes may help us to eventually turn our eyes toward healing at our core, and away from scratching our wounds over and over again. 

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« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 08:54:25 AM by Acorn »
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#112: May 14, 2021, 10:16:51 AM
Quote
I am ashamed to say that I feel I've been "existing instead of living" for most of the time since my diagnosis - though I did have a few months pre-dx in the new city where I had started to feel like I was living again.

Sorry, Nas, I beg to differ.  You were ‘valiantly fighting’ with all you had, and not merely ‘existing’! 

Quote
fixing isn’t about plastering over the surface with surface level changes or distractions

Agree, Curiosity. 

Those ‘surface level changes or distractions’ are immensely helpful when we start off our journey of healing.  One would hope those changes may help us to eventually turn our eyes toward healing at our core, and away from scratching our wounds over and over again.

Thank you, Acorn, and thanks for your insight, Curiosity. 

The surface level changes are immensely helpful, imo, in the early days.  Exercise in various forms seems to be one that many turn to, and we often tend to really dive deep.  I personally found it helpful on two fronts: one, it felt great to look good, but more importantly, two, while working out, my brain would process thoughts and information that helped me delve deeper into myself.  (I actually really miss boot camp, but I have to accept my body's limitations now and stick with lower impact forms of exercise.)

If only the healing at our core were as easy as jumping on a treadmill, right?  I've described my "idiot bubble" - my pre-BD life where I felt safe and secure.  I was naive also in that I thought the therapy I did when I was younger, after I left home and during my 20s, had "fixed" me in ways I found out the hard way it truly hadn't.  I was too young - starting at 17, when the brain is not even fully developed (and that's the extent of my knowledge of the human brain, haha) - to even know I was not putting enough into therapy to get enough out of it.   When my idiot bubble burst, that became very clear. 
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#113: May 18, 2021, 07:50:59 AM
Someone reminded me this morning that it’s the fourth anniversary of the death of Chris Cornell and I got very, very sad.  Not sad about his death (although I think he was very talented and it was an incredible tragedy), but more because I remembered where I was when I first heard about it four years ago and it struck me really hard that it seems the memory of a totally different person living a totally different life. And it was like déjà vu on top of déjà vu at that time, in my new state that I’d only lived in for a few months, in my apartment I’d chosen and moved to by myself, I also felt like a totally different person living a totally different new life that was just beginning to take shape. And the news of his death was one of those things I’d probably never really remember the exact moment of hearing if it had not happened during those last few days/weeks before I knew I had cancer, and those days stick with me in a “if only I had known, I would have done x, y and z…” kind of way. (*A foolish waste of time)

(It also reminds me how different it must be to be in what we term “MLC” – because even if I had known, even if I had the knowledge that I had limited time to do things, I still wouldn’t have used that knowledge to indulge in a vicious, cruel, dishonest, bankrupting, irresponsible massacre.)

Anyway, the passage of time is a funny thing because it feels so slow but then you look back and it’s like, wow, it’s been years. And I don’t know how I’m soooo tired from accomplishing nothing, lol. There’s no reason for this post today, I’m just journaling because I’m missing those last moments before the diagnosis, kind of the way early on we miss those last moments before BD, just before we knew everything was suddenly irreversibly changed…

Read on another thread where someone wrote that purpose in life is what brings people satisfaction, and I agree a billion percent, and beyond the stability of the most basic needs, this is my only aspiration for the remainder of my life.

Tuesday vibe, this one's worth a listen  ;):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JDo_xGED0M
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#114: May 18, 2021, 03:58:43 PM
Nas, although I can't in any way compare to how it felt before your cancer diagnosis, on a smaller level I do understand. I compare it to my life before BD. It wasn't perfect but it was pretty good, yet I don't think I realized how good I had it until it was taken away. I have gone through the regretting phase already, phew. Now I just want to reach a new decent life. I wish that for you, too.x
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#115: May 19, 2021, 05:28:11 AM
Nas -
YouTube "Duran Duran - Invisible"  We've got a new album on the way!   ;D
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M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
5/2019 STBXW filed D behind my back despite signed agreement to mediate.
I retain attorney.
STBXW still hasn't told me and no further action.
Elephant in the room has been addressed.  No further action atm.  Weighing my options.
12/16/19  She files financial paperwork.  Divorce proceeding.

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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#116: May 19, 2021, 11:15:28 AM
There's a certain amount of "It is what it is" for me these days (even though I still choke that phrase out a bit unwillingly ;)). I think what our milestones are say a lot about our character. Chris's death hit me at the time so hard too, because I'd just started dipping my toes into "moving forward", and it brought me back to how delicate we all really are.

(Not to invoke MLC where it doesn't need to be, but his story prior to the current widow with how he treated xW Susan Silver at the time of their breakup reads like textbook script. And the saddest of all is that he never quit being angry at her - the mother of his oldest child and the person who was most responsible, outside of his own talent, for making his career a success.)

Nas -
YouTube "Duran Duran - Invisible"  We've got a new album on the way!   ;D

INDEED! Bunnychuckers unite!  ;D 8)

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#117: May 23, 2021, 10:08:27 AM
It’s hot today, and there’s going to be a thunderstorm this afternoon.  Even though it’s interfering with my plans for a peaceful (if sweaty) hike , I love an afternoon thunderstorm. Always have.

I guess that’s a part of me.

Yesterday I attended some sessions of a cancer summit and spoke on a panel, and it brought up some heavy thoughts about life and legacy and failure and happiness and connection and love and loss. 
I’ve been thinking a lot lately about who I am. And how people see me. And how much of what they see is me and how much of it is what they’ve filled in with their own projections - and as was so aptly stated on Marvin's new thread, which I'm now badly paraphrasing, how much of what I see in me is/was someone else's projection.

I have nothing to offer anyone. In this world, that makes me less than. I’m small. My needs are small. My world is small. The earth measures just under 25,000 miles pole to pole and I’ve seen maybe less than 700 miles of it in my life. I don’t take up a lot of space (physically or metaphorically). That used to be for self-preservation. Now it’s because I’ve realized I honestly don’t need that much. I'd love to see the world, but not for any sort of geographic cure. And it's a want, not a need, and my life is about needs, not wants.

MLCers seem to want a lot and think "somewhere else" will make them who they want to be. My former husband certainly did. I don’t know why, that’s his to figure out. But he wanted and needed to be seen as a person with a lot. (And I ground myself into dust and shattered pieces trying to give it to him and I was still never enough – a story for another day, or maybe a story I’m done telling because it’s a story with no structure, a circular mess with no character growth, a frustrating cycle of building of tension that never has a climax…)

Anyway, I didn’t know I needed an afternoon thunderstorm today, but I did and it’s here for me and I’m going to enjoy the hell out of it. Some people might want more out of their Sunday, but right now it’s all I need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRoOqKf7uds

This is your favorite kind of day
It has no walls
The beauty of the rain is how it falls
How it falls, how it falls…
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#118: May 23, 2021, 10:24:20 AM
What great thought, but I have to ask/question one thing:

I have nothing to offer anyone. In this world, that makes me less than. I’m small.

I do not think this is true, and to me does not fit with the rest of your thoughts. No one is SMALL. Everyone has a LOT to offer the world by simply existing, and projecting empathy, kindness and humanity to counter narcissism. To know what TRULY matters in life is of great value.

I have known a lot of people with a “lot” that were tiny. You are the opposite in my opinion.
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First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#119: May 24, 2021, 09:29:14 AM
Thanks, Marvin, for your kind words. I agree with you that there is huge value in knowing that what truly matters in life is not material at all.
One of the sessions at the cancer summit talked about what we leave behind when we’re diagnosed. Another was about all the ways so many things change. The journey is really similar to MLC in a lot of ways. So I was somewhat prepared to deal with a cancer diagnosis from having been BDed, but in another sense I’ve been navigating multiple parallel roads of change.

I’m okay with my life being small as long as it’s stable and peaceful. As I said, I don’t need a lot. Do I have wanderlust and a bucket list a mile long? Sure. Don’t we all. I’d love to see the Midnight Sun, the settings of some of my favorite films, some of the many (many, many, many lol) places my ancestors are from. But again, it’s needs versus wants. I think people in crisis suddenly think their “wants” are absolute cannot-live-without “needs.” Where they end up is a question mark, but I know for me, if given the choice, I’d be happier in a small world with someone who truly knows and accepts and cares about me, or even alone, as opposed to traveling the entire world with someone who doesn’t really see or hear or know me. I guess if there’s one thing that comes out of *MLC, it’s that if we didn’t already know, we finally learn that difference.

I didn’t get my thunderstorm yesterday after all. Oh well. Sometimes things don’t go the way you hope. Lessons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA_cb6EXQXU
(This song makes me want to take guitar lessons  ;))
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#120: May 24, 2021, 01:12:25 PM
Quote
I have nothing to offer anyone.

Huh? Sorry, Nas, you are quite wrong.  For example:

You have an excellent BS-O-Meter and call a spade, a spade.  That is a perfect antidote to enabling.
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#121: May 26, 2021, 08:42:22 AM
Acorn, you're too kind, but thank you for being too kind, lol.

I'm for sure not immune to bs-ing myself sometimes too, but luckily it only lasts a short while before I slap myself back into reality.
Sometimes I think even reading here serves as both a gauge of how I'm doing and sometimes a little bit of a trigger, as sometimes I will catch myself thinking "Why is abc/xyz happening to.for so-and-so, why does my situation seem so different, what's wrong with me..." blah & blah & blah.  It's stupid to think that way, I know that, but yet, sometimes I still have very brief moments of catching myself doing just that. Re-parenting and reconditioning is a long and twisty road.

I don't think the recent cancer summit served me very well either. I've felt sort of lost since attending, rather than uplifted or empowered. Not enough sessions on research or fundraising, too much reminder of specific struggles that are hard to put into words. This morning I had cause to go look for something I remembered posting here midway through my journey after BD, but I couldn't remember if it was before or after cancer. I can't find the thread/post, but I came across some old posts of mine from like 2018 - so more than a year after my diagnosis, but before everything else, and I was still naive to the actual impact of cancer on the future of my financial health, my future dating prospects, my future physical and emotional life, and a whole bunch of other things you never think of until it's already too late - but even by that time in 2018, I had been through it.  And I read my old words this morning and thought how embarrassingly naive I was to think then that it was as bad as it could get.  ???
But also felt entirely like I was reading words written by someone else - someone who was describing herself as physically absolutely TKOed, but still had this *fire* in her and still sounded self-assured and strong and I was like, "Who IS this woman?"  Was that me?  Where is she, what happened to HER?" So much has changed, and it changed so fast I didn't notice it until it was in hindsight, which is always too late.

I took her for granted.  I took a lot of things for granted pre and post-BD, pre and post-cancer, pre and post-the avalanche of loss that followed.  Yesterday I was confronted with something that makes me feel a lot of stress and hopelessness and shame, and as if on cue, also received an unexpected perfect package that made me so happy. We're so lucky when we have kind people in our lives. At the end of the day, that's what matters.

ETA, I forgot my Wednesday song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrC_yuzO-Ss
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 08:48:31 AM by Nas »

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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#122: May 26, 2021, 09:02:42 AM
Big hugs, Nas. Never take that girl for granted again. Because right now, you sound pretty strong and determined to me. And thank you for the solid DJ work. That song's a fantastic addition to my day.

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#123: May 26, 2021, 05:26:41 PM
Thanks, Ready. 
And I've been in a melancholy mood, but my long awaited thunderstorm JUST showed up...

So here is a stellar addition to your playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrzPAiKEu6s

ETA: if anyone had even tried to tell me a year ago that the smell of rain after a really hot day would even momentarily break through to remind me of the little things I used to love, I would NOT have believed them.
Life changes constantly. It’s hard to keep rolling with it sometimes. I’m trying to hold tight to memories like this to remind me why I do. ❤️
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 06:14:07 PM by Nas »

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#124: May 27, 2021, 07:45:24 AM
Sometimes I feel like I'm naked in public when I post, because I'm really talking about past trauma and the parts of myself that brought me to my H in the first place, and that kept me with him, and a lot of it is a source of shame.  But I think if it helps one person see that they're worth more, it's worthwhile to share.

Someone asked me recently what I thought the perfect marriage was. (This is from a conversation from a much longer story I may share eventually about an old friend I believe is at the beginning of an MLC, but I want to be careful not to share too much of someone else's story...)

I never cared about being married, and I think "perfect marriage" is different for everyone.
For me, a good relationship is one where if my partner says something that concerns, hurts or triggers me, I can ask for clarification. And if I say something that concerns or hurts my partner, they can ask for clarification.  In neither case does one partner just clam up, stay silent, project meaning or harbor resentment. 

You know all those colloquial meaningless sentiments people always say, like, "Drive carefully" or "Have a safe trip"?
They're throwaway lines.  We say them to people without even thinking - it's like rote behavior we pick up in our lives.
Well, from the very beginning of our relationship, when my H would leave, I would say some variation of, "I love you, drive safe."

One day, before we were married but after we had been living together for many years, he was heading out to - I don't know, probably play golf or something - and he said, "Do you know how it makes me feel when you tell me to drive safe?  I feel like you think I'm not capable of getting from point A to point B."
I was like  ??? ??? ???
But even though I didn't understand his feelings at all, I apologized and told him it was just a figure of speech I had always said to everyone, but if he didn't like it, I'd stop saying it. 
His response to my apology was to reiterate how I always said it to him and it always made him feel incapable.  Then he left and when he returned he as usual immediately retreated to his man cave and that was that.  No resolution.  Obviously resentment harbored.

Looking back, I know I could have and should have asked him to say more about why he felt that way, but I don't think I would have gotten an answer and it wouldn't have made a difference. 
Our communication was always one sided - I communicated, and sometimes I communicated better and sometimes I didn't communicate quite as well as I could have, but I communicated.  I realize now that every day I was almost begging to understand and to be heard and understood.  He was too, in his own way, but he wasn't looking to understand.  That was the difference between us.

One particular memory that stands out, after an episode of one-sided communication, I remember saying to him that I felt "married but alone."
And his response?  A grunt, "I don't care" and then stomping off to his man cave.

 :-[ And I stayed in that marriage for another 5 years after that, until HE left ME for not being good enough for him.
Don't be me, newbies.  KNOW YOUR WORTH.  If you don't know it and can't see it, get a good therapist.  Just trust me on this.  Please.

***No song today - there's plenty that would fit but they're all too cliche.  ;)
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#125: May 27, 2021, 02:58:29 PM
Interesting thoughts, as always, Nas. When you speak about your H and how you were with him, it is me totally.

I'm sorry your cancer summit was disappointing, or perhaps even damaging to you. Isn't that how things go? Sometimes, we can place too many expectations on people or an event and then feel a bit let down. I think a tiny person has tons to give, even though I don't think that anyone necessarily needs to have something to give to be worthy. It's not the size that matters, but what that person feels and values, and these ethereal gifts are immense.  I think it's enough to exist as a kind human to be worthy. Everything else is just icing, which is nice, too.

I think you've grown a lot through your threads. I think I have, too. You say you don't recognize that 2018 person, I bet I'd feel the same if I went back and read my threads. Maybe that's what progress looks like. I really think we need to try on thoughts and even personalities before we settle into who we really are. For me, this has been one of the main purposes of my journey, to re-become myself. For me, it's the little girl who was a dreamer before it all warped. I would like to get back to her because I liked her. She was sweet, but not yet a pushover. It does mean undoing the parenting we have received, the habitual behaviour that we subconsciously learned towards people who are not the best kind of people. It's definitely really hard, but I believe that acknowledging the problem was the first giant step on our healing journey.

You do have a double whammy dear Nas with BD and cancer, but as someone lucky enough to have her health right now, I also have reached the point of having wants rather than needs. Isn't that a nice place to be? See, perhaps it's got nothing to do with a terrible illness, but more to do with us growing up? In any case, I think where you are is very good. Lots of hugs, x
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#126: May 27, 2021, 03:31:38 PM
For me, this has been one of the main purposes of my journey, to re-become myself.

Hi Milly. Hope all is well.

My sister was just here for a month. She didn't even know of H anger issues and emotional abuse. She was pretty shocked, said everything always looked so perfect.

Anyway, she said there'd be no way I could ever accept him back (he doesn't want that) without him going through big changes as I had already obviously given up so much of who I was to make life with him "work".

That was so true and I never really thought about it.

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#127: May 28, 2021, 09:46:04 AM
One of the things I've discovered since my ability to walk has started declining is that I never expected to go down like THIS. We all know we will get old and eventually pass. But I always thought I would just slowly slow down. I had a preconceived notion that I would hike until I died. Just like my preconceived notion that I'd stay married. No one really prepares you for reality. How beat down you get for every thing that's an uphill battle. How being disabled or ill or even unhappy makes many people so uncomfortable they can't even be around you. How when you might need help the most is when there is often little to be found. I found I didn't know how to ask for help because I'd always done it myself. I didn't even know how to put in words what I needed. I also found that those little disabled stickers only mean a non disabled person designed the disabled space.

If you haven't lived it, you don't really understand it. If you've helped someone else through, you might have a concept. My sister was telling me how hard it is for her husband because he's getting old and can't play beach volleyball anymore and it's ESPECIALLY hard for him that his muscles hurt. I looked at her and said "I know you don't mean it that way, but that is a huge insult to me. I'd like to walk. Do you think it's harder for him to not play beach volleyball than it is for me to not be able to walk to the bathroom?"  People don't get it, and in truth that wears on the person fighting that uphill battle.

I know you've had a very long uphill battle, and I'm sure you are so tired. When you are exhausted, you have nothing to give yourself and might feel you have nothing to give anyone else, either. It's not like you get an hour off for lunch and 2 fifteen minute breaks per day from cancer. It's  ok to be tired, take a break and look for a new way to regroup. 

And as an aside, I wonder what would make a person get ANGRY when someone tells them "Drive safely."  I once explained to my kids that it wasn't that I thought they were bad drivers, but that there are bad drivers out there, so watch out for them. It's not something to get angry about. Ask someone politely not to do it if it bothers you.  Such an odd reaction.......
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#128: May 28, 2021, 10:08:55 AM
In many ways, getting older is a time of loss (not all of it, but some of it) and some of that reality is just as hard as OR says. And it beholds us all to remember how very clueless we are if we haven’t been in particular shoes. I over noticed for instance how uneven most pavements are or how narrow lots of doors in public spaces were until I had to push my grandmother in a wheelchair as a young woman.

I’m with OR too that it is a very weird reaction to ‘drive safely’. If my ego is so messed up that I hear criticism in that? Very odd. And when things are that WTF odd, it really isn’t about you, is it? In fact, I remember how hard it was the first time I did a long drive post horrors and realised that no one knew where I was and no one would be waiting for a text to tell them i’d arrived safely. That was an awful feeling.
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#129: May 28, 2021, 02:09:13 PM
Such great points and interesting insights guys, thank you.  And thanks for following along on this rambling LBS healing journey. 

It does mean undoing the parenting we have received, the habitual behaviour that we subconsciously learned towards people who are not the best kind of people.


I realized something on the subject of re-parenting and about the various ways I've been unable to re-parent myself, to be the parent I needed to my inner child.  I've documented how I failed her in the past, but it seems even worse now that I somehow keep failing her.  That to me is maybe part of what crises are made of, if one doesn't recognize this feeling and seek to work through it. 


And as an aside, I wonder what would make a person get ANGRY when someone tells them "Drive safely."  I once explained to my kids that it wasn't that I thought they were bad drivers, but that there are bad drivers out there, so watch out for them. It's not something to get angry about. Ask someone politely not to do it if it bothers you.  Such an odd reaction.......


I’m with OR too that it is a very weird reaction to ‘drive safely’. If my ego is so messed up that I hear criticism in that? Very odd. And when things are that WTF odd, it really isn’t about you, is it? In fact, I remember how hard it was the first time I did a long drive post horrors and realised that no one knew where I was and no one would be waiting for a text to tell them i’d arrived safely. That was an awful feeling.

Yes, it was an odd reaction to a very common well-intentioned saying.  Part of what I've had to face in myself is the fact that I knew how odd it was at the time and ignored it, along with other times I ignored my gut, and then of course with that comes facing why. 
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#130: May 29, 2021, 04:19:08 PM
When I say 'drive safely to my D' I mean, be extra careful because I love you. Anyone who takes our love as an offense has issues we didn't create.
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#131: May 30, 2021, 08:52:17 PM
I myself ignored an entire parade of red flags.
I find it so hard re-parenting myself only to have my actual parent come in and criticize my re-parenting. So frustrating.
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#132: May 31, 2021, 07:46:09 AM
Thanks for following along, folks.
Re-parenting is a topic that we could really have endless discussion threads on (maybe we should  :-\).

It's a regular Monday for me, working and drinking coffee.
For those of you with the day off, enjoy your bonus weekend day. :)

Monday vibe for me is the lyrics of this slightly unappreciated gem:

Once I thought that I was in control
But that was just another trick of fate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bc-5ozQzHw
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#133: June 02, 2021, 09:04:16 AM
Something I thought of as I’ve read some recent threads and really insightful discussions, a good test of being too quick to apply the MLC label would be:
When you hear just the following basic description of someone, do you immediately think, “Oh, this person is in MLC”?

Mid-40s and feeling down about some aspects of aging.
Suffered multiple major losses in rapid succession.
Dealing with serious illness causing a stark facing of mortality.
Feels unfulfilled and can’t seem to find their “right” direction.
Dealing with anxiety and depression.
Avoiding responsibilities and hasn’t filed income taxes for the last few years.
“Escapes” often into music from their youth.
Reminiscing about the past and especially past relationships from before marriage.
Cutting off certain relationships in their life that they feel are toxic or unbalanced.
A deep feeling of inadequacy and failure.

We have seen descriptions like this a lot and say, oh yeah, ticks a lot of boxes, this absolutely sounds like an MLC.

But descriptions like these only give us a tiny fraction of the whole, with really no context at all. 
The person described above does tick a lot of boxes and has a long list of things that could be read as MLC.
But the person described above is ME:

Mid-40s and feeling down about some aspects of aging. (Context: because my H left when I was over 40 and then I got cancer, which in addition to taking a toll on my health, is financially toxic, making me a less than desirable candidate for dating.)
Suffered multiple major losses in rapid succession. (Context: many people suffer multiple losses at once, but the question is what these losses trigger and how are those triggers faced? I’m facing my triggers in therapy.)
Dealing with serious illness causing a stark facing of mortality. (Context: We’re all going to have to face our mortality. I’m not facing mine by running away from it, but rather by acquiring a third-degree black belt in facing reality.)
Feels unfulfilled and can’t seem to find their “right” direction. (Context: Well, this one I’m still very much working on TBH, but keyword is “working on it” rather than running off into a fantasy.)
Dealing with anxiety and depression. (Context: I’m using therapy to deal, not tons of sex, drugs and wild spending or stealing someone else’s husband to make myself feel good.)
Avoiding responsibilities and hasn’t filed income taxes for the last few years. (Well, this is a long story with lots of details I don’t wish to share, but it’s hard to keep track of paperwork when you’ve been fighting cancer, homeless, moving around like a nomad and dealing with PTSD – so what appears to be avoiding is really a combination of not having resources, *calculated irresponsibility (*a term I just coined right now), and yes, a little avoidance of what I know is going to take way too much of my currently inadequate resources and energy.)
“Escapes” often into music from their youth. (Context: really, who doesn’t do this sometimes?)
Reminiscing about the past and especially past relationships from before marriage. (Context: After being BDed, I’m naturally drawn to looking into my past relationships and looking for patterns, etc.)
Cutting off certain relationships in their life that they feel are toxic or unbalanced. (Context: See above, when you are dealing with all the things I’ve gone through, you really see some people’s true colors and want all toxicity removed from your life.)
A deep feeling of inadequacy and failure. (Context: SEE ABOVE.)

Anyway, this is just an illustration of how something that looks one way can look very different once even partial details are filled in.  This is why I think reading too much between the lines isn’t necessarily helpful, for us or for others.  We’re all writing different narratives and too many authors on one story can lead to an interesting potboiler of a script, but not one you’d want to actually act out in real life.

Just my Wednesday thoughts, FWIW.  I have to find a song with really fitting lyrics and I’ll come back and edit, but for now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQq98YPV8yk
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#134: June 02, 2021, 09:13:35 AM
Thank you what a great post. It is a great reminder that an orange is round, but everything round is not an orange!

Ooooh now I want an orange....
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#135: June 02, 2021, 09:47:47 AM
*Applause*

It's an uncomfortable truth. I have my list, too, for sure. Behind every woman/man whose "handling things well" are lots of moments when we're actually just trying to figure it out without falling into the abyss. Add FOO issues in and just like we want to define MLC, we have an inevitable smash that was always going to come.

And also, just because MLCers are not us, and just because we got the short end of the stick, does not mean they are living their wrong lives. It's *their* journey. That's one for the meditation mat to deal with. Because if you really have unconditional love for them, you will want them to not be forced into bondage with you, but to live their lives free and happy. And if they have problems to deal with, they have to find *their* way to do it. Sad, but truthy.
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#136: June 02, 2021, 10:26:11 AM
I was watching tv last night and there is a whole Chevy commercial around "drive safe".   My D just looked at me strangely as I sat snickering though the whole commercial.  And in case you are all wondering, at no point was the phrase "drive safe" used in the commercial to belittle a beloved's driving skills.     
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#137: June 03, 2021, 03:57:40 PM
Dear Nas, I see such a difference between you and someone in a MLC. Yes, we might have some of their worries, concerns, and problems. The difference is that although we have these worries, we don't destroy someone else. We are still empathic. We might not pay up our taxes because otherwise we won't be able to put on the heat, but not because we're off holidaying and buying a hot car or taking another person to a hotel and shopping or whatever just so we get attention.

Of course many of us will go through a mid life transition or realization of some kind. I think most LBSes do. We feel the time limit ahead of us as we never felt it before, but mainly because we already invested sooooo many years into creating our lives and futures. We know we don't have the same amount of time we had before. We were thrown to rock bottom at BD. We are facing similar awakenings as the MLCer can face. The difference between us and them is that we do ask the questions, we seek the answers, we do the journey and whether we like it or not, we come to some acceptance.

So for me this means that we do go through a mid life transition that has very similar behaviours and thoughts, but our transition does not destroy anybody else. Take your list of stuff and add: abandon family, ruin finances for personal greed, be extremely cruel with former spouse (and if you have kids, ignoring some of them, but not all, therefore creating favourites) and you have someone going through a MLC.

We LBSes are the first to look internally at ourselves. We are the first to forgive others. But that list + cruelty or selfishness = MLC to me.
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#138: June 06, 2021, 01:06:49 PM
It's not the list that would make me think MLC, it would be the reactions and how the things in the list were deat with that makes me think MLC when it applies.

I believe most people have an MLT (mid life transition) if only because something major happened in their life which might emotionally or logistically cause a change to happen (death of a loved one, empty nest, major illness diagnosis, loss of the use of any part of your body, etc). A MLT reaction to getting older might be listening to music from your youth. An MLC reaction might be listening to it at ear damaging levels while driving your car at 120 mph with your lights off "for the thrill", and getting verbally abusive at the Police Officer that pulls you over for reckless driving, and blaming the rest of the world for being arrested. Slight difference there ( ;) )

It's not really about check boxes on a list. It's about the way the boxes are checked, imo, and also if anyone, including the person having the MLT/MLC, is harmed physically or emotionally in the process, if they recognize their actions as harmful, and if they seek help once they realize their actions are harmful.

Also imo, the words "mid life" only came to be because that is about the time when most of these things happen in a person life. At 20, your kids aren't leaving the nest, the average person hasn't lost a close loved one (there are exceptions), your body is still strong. By the time you hit 40, your kids might be grown or close to it, your parents might be infirm or ill, your body has more aches and pains, you might be tired of your job and it happens within a few years of each other. Hardly time to take a breath before the next thing hits.

To me, it's a transition that becomes a crisis because a person doesn't have the tools to deal with the transition and they have to rely on what they do have :blaming everyone or anyone else, shutting down, running away, pretending it didn't happen, pretending they are someone else, removing themself from the presence of any reminders of whatever pain their transition caused them, there are multiple scenarios.

Most people will short term crisis over something sometime in their life, but it doesn't last (mental shut down after death of a family member for a short time as an example). People who don't long term crisis have a personal toolbox of how to deal with things that aren't perfect or what they'd like it to be. People who do crisis didn't get that full toolbox somehow. They do the best that they can, but that doesn't mean the best they can is any good. And it looks completely different from someone working through their issues. At least, it does to me.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#139: June 06, 2021, 01:22:20 PM
I used to think of it as MLC, now my view is that it is the universe giving us an opportunity at a “spiritual awakening” of sorts. A chance to look at this version of me that was created through trauma, family dynamics, false beliefs, and life experience and media messages and reevaluate it all.

Does the mlc-er choose the most destructive path…..absolutely….and it’s the one with the smallest chance of a positive outcome. They abdicate all person responsibility and awash in a sea of emotions, unhealed trauma responses, avoidant attachment styles, and self sabotage they embark.

Still the opportunity is there for both. To go back and reclaim loved things from childhood that brought joy and happiness before the world told us we were “too old” and “adults don’t do that”.

To let lose sides of us we hadn’t embraced or owned, or given voice too.

A chance to evaluate who’s in our life and why?

A chance to set down stories and versions of ourselves that no longer serve us anymore.

Anyways….that’s my opinion

Courage
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#140: June 07, 2021, 07:33:43 AM
Thanks for all the great discussion, everyone.
(BTW, I caught the "Drive Safe" commercial over the weekend and just rolled my eyes.  And also remembered one time when I sent my former H a text to affirm that I agreed with something he wanted by writing "Deal" and it was a very cute and flirty conversation, but he later he was standoffish and distant and when I asked what was wrong, he told me he somehow had interpreted me writing "deal" (as in "Okay, you got a deal, I'm in agreement") as "Deal with it" (as in "I don't care what you want, this is what's happening, deal with it.")  ::) ::) ::)  Which in retrospect doesn't even make sense because I was agreeing to what he wanted, so why would I then use a nasty tone tell him to "deal with" the agreement?
In the moment, these things all seemed one-off.  Thinking about them now, it's like  ???

Still the opportunity is there for both. To go back and reclaim loved things from childhood that brought joy and happiness before the world told us we were “too old” and “adults don’t do that”.



This is an important point, and I'd also add that for anyone who didn't have a childhood that allowed them to feel joy and happiness, or anyone who had to grow up too fast, etc, this is a time to re-parent, to reevaluate and reexamine our ego stories.  The more ingrained the stories, the harder that is, but really the best thing any LBS (any LBS, be it with an MLCer, a narc ex, a wayward cheater, etc) can do (after the initial shock) is let them go and focus entirely on ourselves, and that often means delving into some very tough stuff.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#141: June 07, 2021, 10:19:30 AM
Oops, forgot to include my deep cut  Monday vibe ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1Jx7xARqmo

From where I stand
The truth isn't black and white
Alone we live and die...
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#142: June 08, 2021, 03:13:25 AM
Good morning, Nas!
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#143: June 10, 2021, 07:17:13 AM
I've documented some stuff in past threads about my cousin, who I truly 100% believe had (and is still having but will likely forever be in) an *MLC.
For anyone wondering how long these people can stay cycling/spinning and what if anything can "wake them up," I'm here to say the answers to those questions are: FOREVER and NOTHING.

My cousin is 10 years older than me and lives in another state now, but we grew up living close to each other.  She started her descent in 2007-ish.  She's recently been diagnosed with the same sub-type of cancer as me.  (She's still estranged from her children.  Her exH is seemingly unmoved by this news of her serious illness.)  I've been right where she is and know exactly how scared she is.  She has been simultaneously asking for my help and refusing my input (we all know that cycle) and now is refusing chemo and insisting it's no use, she has been handed a death sentence because life was always just been unfair to her.  When I gently but encouragingly reminded her that I'm an example of someone living with her type of cancer, she literally spat out these words: "You don't understand, you're alive today but we'll both be dead soon."  NO thought as to how those words might affect me.  She's still singularly focused on her own feelings/emotions. 

"You don't understand."  No, I guess how could I, I've only been living it for the past few years.  ??? ??? ??? In truth, her careless "yeah but you're  gonna die" statement did send me spinning for a second.  It's very scary to not know what's going to happen and I know she's at the very beginning of a terrifying journey, and I know what she said was not about me but her own fears, but it still shows that nearly 15 YEARS later, she's not moved forward.  (And having the benefit of knowing her all our life before her MLC started, I know she was very caring and kind and not even remotely like the person she has been over the past 15 years.)

Worse than what she said to me is the fact that she is still talking about her now grown children (who now have kids of their own) as though they've abandoned her.  She left them for her OM when they were young tween/early teens and somehow has twisted it in her mind to believe she was abandoned by her family.  And I can tell she 100% believes it, still to this day. 

It's very sad to see how people get stuck and are so careless of the people around them.

This song was more of my Wednesday vibe, but I'll post it today anyway.  Happy Thursday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soBNbkGl4Z0
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#144: June 10, 2021, 07:45:50 AM
First oh my god, I am so sorry you had to be on the receiving end of such a narcissistic and stupid comment. Please please please remove yourself. She is not worth being helped. And she is not open to being helped, so you are simply banging your head into the concrete wall only to have the wall then turn around and hit you.

I am sorry but she is in a reality of her own making. She is experiencing the consequences of her own decisions. Even refusing to get treatment is a direct version of how she has been living since her "MLC." Contrast that with EVERYTHING you have been doing and are doing.

Ultimately its about how we choose to live and experience every moment. That is not a comment on mortality and disease, its simply a truth about the core of existence in my world. She chooses to live in a private hell. And you DO NOT.
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#145: June 10, 2021, 08:39:54 AM
Nas, (((HUGS))). You’re a wonder; I can’t listen to that particular song today but I love your playlist!

Sounds like your cousin is panicked and shellshocked. It’s tough when we love someone and have the lived experience to walk with them through whatever fire or journey and they just won’t take our hand; h really went haywire last year when he entered an experience he knows I have a world of direct knowledge about. This long later and still pretty hurt, I can only think that some of these more dire or deepest life experiences are ones that the individual has to go through with mostly its own attendance and self-counsel. Her ways and words at you recently sound like her sort of unschooled or first shot at establishing her own boundaries around what is going on in her body and mind, and from outside it looks ineffectual or abrasive, but you know it’s all vulnerability and fears. I’m sorry she was callous and reactive; you don’t deserve that. But ;) look how strong and steady and wise you are.

I hope her journey will be ultimately a deeply rewarding one. I agree with marvin that you might want to distance yourself for peace of mind. Sometimes even when we have a wealth of experience and help to share or give, we have to wait to be asked directly for our care and contribution. In the meantime, we go along in our own journey and enjoy our own experience, and our own soundtrack.

Your own abundant knowledge and lived journey is not to be used as a scratching post. That’s not what your life and heart are for. (((HUGS)))
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#146: June 10, 2021, 11:39:22 AM
Nas, please protect yourself.  Be self-ish.  There are people like your cousin who sap one’s emotional reserve but to no benefit to them. 

(((((HUGS)))))
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Re: Towards the place where all loose ends go
#147: June 10, 2021, 04:06:41 PM
Nas, I'm sorry for your SIL's callous comment. To me it shows two things that we already know about MLCers: 1, they do nothing to resolve their problems, whatever they are. They drive right into the crash, don't even try to swerve. She won't have chemo, which could lessen her chances of survival. But this lack of action will give her an additional reason to feel sorry for herself, yet it's a situation she could do something about. Then, 2, she won't suffer alone. She has to make others around her hurt as she is, hence the thoughtless comment putting you in the same bracket as her.

I hope you can manage to put her self centered comment behind you.
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#148: June 11, 2021, 01:07:09 AM
Straight out of the MLC for Dummies Playbook...

1) Do NOTHING to assert some control over one's life (like Chemo)
2) Blame God, the Universe and everything in it for the situation one finds themselves in
3) Rewrite history to make the MLC'er out as the victim or the good guy
4) try to bring everyone around them down to their level of unhappiness....
5) REFUSE to take any responsibility / be accountable for any of their actions/choices...

The resulting response/reaction - detach and let them swing in the wind.....
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A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#149: June 11, 2021, 09:52:45 AM
Thank you all for the support.  :)

Straight out of the MLC for Dummies Playbook...

1) Do NOTHING to assert some control over one's life (like Chemo)
2) Blame God, the Universe and everything in it for the situation one finds themselves in
3) Rewrite history to make the MLC'er out as the victim or the good guy
4) try to bring everyone around them down to their level of unhappiness....
5) REFUSE to take any responsibility / be accountable for any of their actions/choices...

The resulting response/reaction - detach and let them swing in the wind.....

I hate to say it, but that list doesn't only apply to MLCers.  Seems to be a general way of being for a lot of folks, and not something that they'll ever recognize or want to change. (Yes, I'll accept my sash and tiara as the winner of the Miss Positivity Pageant, thanks.  ;D)

It is hard with my cousin because I know she's feeling very scared and she's all alone, but her anxiety is firmly at the wheel, on top of her narrow self-focus, and I have to be protective of myself.  This is a victory for me though.  Not too long ago, I wouldn’t have recognized her behavior as detrimental to me.  I wouldn’t have recognized that saying what she said to me was dismissive of me and my place in the situation. I wouldn’t have recognized that I deserve to be considered as part of the equation.

It’s particularly stressful in my tiny little world, for many reasons - and that’s saying something, given it’s not exactly been a cakewalk for a long long time (pun wasn’t even intended lol.) It's a good thing I've been delving so hard into myself - the work is starting to show itself.  I'm remembering that I can and should trust my gut instincts.
Today's song is actually about still wanting someone who has changed, and that time between denying the loss and accepting that it’s final.  But I'm flipping it around and dedicating it to ME, to the woman I was and how I hurt her by ignoring gut instincts so many times:

I'm coming to find you if it takes me all night
A witch hunt for another girl
For always and ever is always for you
Your trust
The most gorgeously stupid thing I ever cut in the world


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE1nu67-U2I

Happy Friday  ;)
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#150: June 11, 2021, 10:29:35 AM
Oh man, misery really does love company. Your cousin is firmly planted in victim mode and looking to take you down with her.

 I love that can see your own growth in this interaction.  Keep your vibrations high and set your boundaries accordingly. 
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Towards the place where all loose ends go
#151: June 12, 2021, 01:21:24 PM
Thanks, DF :)

I haven’t decided yet if I’m going to continue documenting my LBS healing journey. Perhaps if I can think of a good title and the perfect song, I’ll start a new thread.

I just saw some thing that resonated so much with me. It said one of the biggest clues that you’re dealing with a pathological narcissist is when you have the realization that you’ve never had this many misunderstandings with anyone in your entire life.

As soon as I read that, my immediate memory was this: I was at home. I didn’t even know he was home because his car was not there. Apparently he was in his man cave and his car without being detailed. He came upstairs while I was relaxing and watching a TV show that I had DVRed. He just suddenly appeared in the living room and started talking. It startled me because I didn’t know he was there.

As soon as I heard him start talking, I hit pause on the TV so I could hear him and listen without distraction.

Literally the second I hit the pause button, he stops talking, and angry scowl came across his face and he said, “oh, I didn’t realize this show was that important.”

Another WTF moment that, because of the chaos I was raised around, I didn’t recognize in the moment. I had hit pause so that I could hear him because to me, what he had to say was important. I wanted to hear him and give him my full attention. Somehow he was able to flip that around. It’s actually a very unique skill of his. By hitting pause on the TV and giving him my undivided attention, I somehow ended up in a situation where I had to apologize profusely and beg forgiveness for the transgression of actually wanting to pay attention to him.  :o

My purpose with documenting this self-healing is not to suggest or encourage anyone to *give up* on their marriage. But what I would say is it’s very hard to take off the rose colored glasses but oh, it is so necessary. Just whatever you do, know your worth, and don’t waste years on someone who doesn’t also know it.

Have a great weekend, all.

This seems so fitting to end this thread on:

https://youtu.be/QYutI2vOUyE

New thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11719.msg778908#msg778908
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« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 03:57:09 PM by Thunder »

 

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