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Author Topic: My Story Love and Insanity continues

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My Story Love and Insanity continues
#130: September 10, 2021, 02:51:22 PM
One of those days when the fire ignites and explodes!! My daughter is getting married in 8 days. She has been a wreck. FSIL family is all fighting. Of course D30 Dad is paying, but physically been absent.  We had a conversation after she sent the wedding timeline. It showed son and mother dance. I said what about father and daughter dance? She said she thought they were creepy and that FSIL would rather not, but his mom would be hurt.

And then… she said FMIL would not even let her son use her car when his was in the shop, she said if anyone should dance with him it should be her Dad who let him use his for 6 weeks. I said?? He has a second car? I just let you use mine for 2 weeks and I went without a car? She then proceeded to yell that it isn't a competition and that if he does anything positive can she just not appreciate it, but no I have to shoot it all down!!  She said she is trying to grasp any relationship with him. I told her I want you to have one. I encourage it. I just sometimes feel I am invisible and I am always here. He has been gone for 9 months.

Anyways, she could not be talked to. Ended up having a 2 hour conversation with XH. Hadn’t talked to him in 3 weeks, but texted him that she was a wreck and mad. XH called. I feel I am taking the beating constantly for him being gone. XH “she asked him to give a speech at the wedding and I cant come up with anything to say” . XH has some good days, but the bad days are more and much worse. XH asked me if I wanted to give the speech. I said we were a very good team that built our life from nothing to be very successful . Lets use that team work to show our friends and family we can come together even after all we have been through and do the speech together.

I came up with doing a timeline of her life switching between us telling stories. He would start with greeting everyone and he would also end with a toast to the couple. XH said that sounds good. I said there is a lot of anger, tension and confusion with D30 and S28. How did he feel about going  to family therapy and see is we can resolve some issues to better move forward for them. HE AGREED!!! Said get some available dates and times!! What??????

Such a turn around of a terrible fight with D30 to clearing the air and getting a man easily agree to therapy for his family who wont go for himself. Even if it is one session one and done it is something. Doing the speech together will show friends and family we can come together despite this horrific time. Mostly it will show our children that the parents they knew for 30 years are trying to fix this in some capacity . He is also coming by before the wedding to see me alone since we have not seen each other for 4 months. So, it won't be so awkward at the wedding.

It isn't everything, but it’s something. Something is better than nothing :)  and Nothing is better than trying to heal this family in any small way



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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and Insanity continues
#131: September 12, 2021, 06:14:35 AM
Tornup, Thinking of you as your D's wedding approaches.  My S married last summer.  As happy as I was for my S, I dreaded the day - h and I had not seen each other in some time.  My close friends and family braved covid fears out of support and love.   And I knew this community would be there in spirit as well.  On the day of the wedding, I was full of the most unbelievable joy and love. The kids' love was so obvious and the joy settled like a magical golden stardust over everything.  H's presence did not matter. I wish you joy of the day. 
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BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

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#132: September 12, 2021, 07:39:47 AM
Tornup....idk if this is a pattern for you or indeed if it bothers your daughter, but hers what I see you did, intentionally or otherwise just in case it does matter to your daughter.

Your daughter, for her own reasons, decided to ask your xh to give a speech at her wedding. Wisely or otherwise. Your xh tried to pass the obligation over to you bc he said he didn’t know what to say, having agreed to do it. (Which is a rather infantile response rather than an accurate one presuming he is functionally capable of speech....the internet is full of this kind of stuff or he could have just kept it very simple.....what he actually meant was he didn’t want to do it and/or it made him feel uncomfortable, in which case as an adult, that was a conversation to be had with your daughter surely.) You both then decided to do it together (and you will honestly know how much of that solution was created by you or by him). And to use the speech to show something to others about the two of you as a team.

The one thing that is missing here is respect for your daughter as an adult with her own wishes about her own wedding rituals. And a missing honest conversation between them which may well be part of rebuilding a more robust adult relationship. Somehow from over here it looks as if this speech has become all about him and perhaps you....on a day that arguably isn’t about the two of you much at all....and simply not what your daughter asked for. And you used the situation to leverage a bout of family therapy which you see as a beneficial thing although I am unsure if this is something your xh, about to be married daughter or son have actually asked for at this time.

From the cheap seats this looks like a conversation which was much more about your xh and your wants than about your daughter’s wishes. Did you know you were doing that? Does it matter to you stacked up against your xh’s discomfort with it? How do you think your daughter might feel about it? (Let all ne how she might feel about her wedding being so swiftly followed by FOO therapy.) Is this a pattern in the dynamic of your family bc, if so, it might well explain some of your daughter’s anger? Are you still getting caught up in a fixer/rescuer role for a man who divorced you and is in a relationship with another woman? And do you see how very far this All was from the kind of detachment you say you are trying to achieve? Or the risk of prising your xh and adult children into family counselling that they did not initiate or arrange? Just a few thoughts. I don’t mean to be harsh, I know your intentions are good.....but I am taking you at your prior word that you want to detach from some of your old marital patterns. And from over here, there are layers of ‘offness’ about it all, mostly about things like respect and promises and accountability.....all of which imho are darned important things in healthy families.

I hope though that on the day all the good stuff transcends the tough stuff for all of you just as Mal described.
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« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 07:52:18 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

T
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Love and Insanity continues
#133: September 13, 2021, 06:51:01 AM
Treasur-

There is nothing healthy happening in the family since his crisis. Was this a pattern before ? No? Also, my daughter is fully aware he did not want to give a speech. He is not healthy. She actually also said she loves affirmation and any of us could give a speech. I did ask her if she would mind that we do it together. She said it did not matter to her. I wish he could sit down and have a grown up conversation with her or any of us. He could then he would not be the teen escape artist that he is right now. Unfortunately 😔

I am trying my best to make sure that her wedding goes off well. She was married before which was his first breakdown. He gave a speech adjusted from on off the internet during that wedding when he was no way near the crisis he is in now. It was a disaster that she was there to witness. I do think she needs him to come through on the speech. Mostly due to his absence for 9 months. Of course the parent that is there. The reliable always there parent  is the one that is mostly taken for granted. At least that is how it is playing out. I do not want to give the speech with him. I thought it was a good solution and also would again ease those that know their is chaos in the family. I think it came off as it being about us, but the family situation is recent and well known. My thought is that if our kids and family could see even with the chaos we are able to come together for HER it would ease things. Specially for our adult children who are struggling with this more than I realized.

Thought it might be good for all. Maybe I am wrong. I am just doing my best. Apparently, everything I am doing is wrong. I will talk to me therapist for guidance. I am definitely a fixer. I cant seem to fix anything. My daughter is coming over today and I will ask her again in person on the speech.

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From the cheap seats this looks like a conversation which was much more about your xh and your wants than about your daughter’s wishes. Did you know you were doing that? Does it matter to you stacked up against your xh’s discomfort with it? How do you think your daughter might feel about it? (Let all ne how she might feel about her wedding being so swiftly followed by FOO therapy.) Is this a pattern in the dynamic of your family bc, if so, it might well explain some of your daughter’s anger? Are you still getting caught up in a fixer/rescuer role for a man who divorced you and is in a relationship with another woman? And do you see how very far this All was from the kind of detachment you say you are trying to achieve? Or the risk of prising your xh and adult children into family counselling that they did not initiate or arrange?

I am thrown off by this? Someone has to initiate counseling if counseling is to occur. I asked him what he thought an he said yes. I then asked S28 and D30 and they said yes. There is no timeline of being swiftly done after the wedding, but there is now disfunction in the family and I do not know how to fix it. That is why I thought a therapist would be good. So, am I still a fixer? YES!! I see this family in trouble and I want to work on it. I’m not sure why that  would be wrong. I am open for suggestions?
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 07:39:13 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#134: September 13, 2021, 07:11:36 AM
Maleficent-

Thank you for sharing. That is what I hope for as well ❤️
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#135: September 13, 2021, 07:53:47 AM
Well, of course I could be completely wrong....my perspective was just based on a few words you wrote and lets’s face it, i’m an LBS whose life got blown up so i’ve Been wrong before lol.

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I will talk to me therapist for guidance. I am definitely a fixer. I cant seem to fix anything.
I’m glad you have an informed professional to talk to. How wise of you to get one bc this stuff is hard to do solo.
And I am so sorry for any pain and helplessness you feel about being a fixer who finds herself in a situation that, despite all your best efforts, is beyond your ability to fix. We get that....it is agony bc all of the folks involved matter to you so much.

My challenge is not about your wish to fix the dysfunction in your family’s situation or why you want to do so. Indeed, I rather admire how clear sighted you are about the dysfunction.
It is more about encouraging you to see the sometimes invisible costs of fixing and to recognise that you are, at a very simple level, outnumbered here by xh, son, daughter, their partners, even ow’s agenda in the mix. You are just one person and the horse to water principle is often a real one. Carrying a responsibility to fix all of the dysfunction caused in a family system, including relationships between others that are not about you, is a heavy heavy load. Well, they have all said yes to your invitation, so I guess you either set it up and see how it goes or wait and see if they take action bc they want it as much as you do. But talking to your IC about the limits of your responsibility and laying down some of that load might turn out to be useful if family therapy does go ahead. Bc trying to fix things you can’t control but care about deeply is spirit-crushing and exhausting imho. You can only do you though, can’t you?

I want to acknowledge that NOT fixing sometimes can be very painful too bc it often requires us to accept things we just don’t want to accept or to need to change the focus of our hope. Which usually leaves us feeling a bit worse before we start to feel better, doesn’t it? And I am so very sorry that this is the situation your family find themselves in, truly I am.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#136: September 13, 2021, 08:21:56 AM
This is the week, Tornup. for your daughter's wedding. My daughter's anniversary is tomorrow, so I remember well the week before her wedding! Not being an intact family was not the way I had ever imagined it would be.

There has often been discussion on HS about how many LBSer's feel they are "fixers" and sometimes that makes it difficult...but in reality this is not necessarily a negative "label".

I think as women, as mother's, it's part of our role to find solutions to the problems we encounter, especially for people that we love. I don't see it as trying to "fix" the other person, but manage situations so that it will be as comfortable and drama free as possible.

Since dealing with an MLCer is "unpredictable" I learned to relax as much as possible and let things sort of unfold. He wanted to be included, even in helping to make the fancy sandwiches that I was making for the girls and I as we were getting our makeup and hair done....he wanted to be a part of his daughter's wedding, as she wanted and as it should be.

Family occasions are difficult when there is a marriage breakup...but  do we stop being a family? In many ways yes, but those bonds will always be there, no matter what the outcome.

Emotions were very high for me that week. Indeed holidays are always a bit more difficult than the regular days.

What works for me is to determine how to create space for us to be together without it causing damage to my well being. It took practice but for me, the ability to be at ease with him is truly a win win situation.

It is not so much "fixing" anything, it is to make things as peaceful and decrease as much stress as possible on an occasion that is only going to happen this one time.

He is not able to do that....so it is on your shoulders.

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YES!! I see this family in trouble and I want to work on it. I’m not sure why that  would be wrong.


I do not see it as being wrong. I think that we have all tried to get the help that we think could heal what has happened. It seems that help that we get individually seems to have the most benefit. The MLCer is still on their journey. I feel my role is to accept him and function as best we can as a "family" even though it's been broken. My daughter and I both see him and recognize that this is not the person he was...and so, we are in agreement of what is the best solution to cope in this situation that neither one of us even wanted.

Looking forward to hearing about the upcoming days. It is important for you to have a place to vent or just let it out as you try and interact with others in your family and circle of friends during this stressful week.
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 08:24:19 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#137: September 13, 2021, 08:51:49 AM
Torn if I may ask you, about this family counseling.

What expectations do you have in mind for this to be a success?  Would it just be that you could all be able to communicate your feelings to each other in a safe environment?  I know your kids are hurting, but I would hope this wouldn't all come down on him being blamed for his choices.  Only because if that does happen I highly doubt he would want another session to feel guilty.

I'm not saying that will happen just that it could, and with you sitting right there may make him feel like he was set up.  That's how MLCer's see things sometimes.  Their the victim, ya know?   ::) ::)

Just a suggestion but would it perhaps be a better idea for him and his kids to have the family counseling ? Just a thought.  It may be easier for them to open up to him if they were alone with him.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#138: September 13, 2021, 09:33:05 AM
Torn,

May I share our family’s experience?  I hope it’s OK that I talk about us…. This discussion brought back memories from over 3 years ago. 

My daughter floated the idea of family therapy when all my kids and I were well into serious reconnection with H.  (Some of us were still quite fragile still.)  D and I discussed pros and cons of family therapy in our specific situation and came to the conclusion that there was not much to be gained from any family therapy until everyone of us had healed considerably and could discuss relationship rationally and in emotionally mature manner, and that the best course forward was to continue with the individual therapy.

It is notable that, by the time each person was standing solidly on their own emotional feet, the need or desire for any ‘outside’ help had simply evaporated.  As each person healed, so did our respective relationship with H, and our family unit grew stronger.  This makes sense to me because you cannot build a ‘house’ with damaged or broken material.  Even if our children and I regained most of our emotional health, there was not much prospect of building a positive relationship with H, let alone building a family with him in it, if he were not at a similar point in healing. 

I’m obliged to add that the above is just a sample of one.

I wish you and your family a wonderful day at the wedding. 

Here is to the couple!  🥂
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 09:51:17 AM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD. 
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

H never left home.

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#139: September 13, 2021, 10:00:02 AM
Hugs to you, Torn. This is a stressful time. The only thoughts I have for you is to keep your expectations at a normal level. While there is nothing wrong with trying to find solutons that will make your life easier, there is the fine line of doing it for your well being,  and doing it for everyone's else's well being because that makes you feel better. The former is based on you seeking your own wellness, the second makes your wellness dependent on outside forces beyond your control. Should everyone go to family counseling, yet no one but you try to do any of their own work, it could be disappointing for you if you expect everyone to go with the attitude you might want them to have, but perhaps they won't.

As long as you seek to help with no ulterior motives (ulterior motives: if I do this, it will look better to others; if I do that, I can fix what is broken; if I do this other thing, I can make peace between these two people who don't care enough to try on their own), then whatever comes from your solution attempts is OK (Solutions for things that affect you: I would like D to have a speech for her wedding; I would like better communication skills S,D, Xh, but I cannot control what they do).

Example: S21 could not get started on homework. He did not understand what concepts his Economics teacher gave him for parameters. He called for help. I could "fix" it by doing his paper (nope). I could "fix" it by telling him what he needed to write in his paper. (Nope). I could "fix" it by having him ask his teacher (nope, he didn't understand the first and second times he asked, so asking again would likely not help). I could "fix" It by explaining the concepts giving examples of each, and having him feed my back his own examples of understanding. (Yep). He went on to write the paper by himself and earned his own A. The first two choices would be infantalisizing him (not capable of doing his own work and he did not ask for my help with that ). The third choice would be setting him up for failure and my not paying attention to what his problem was). Now, had he asked for help with his finishe'd paper, I would gladly edit and make suggestions, but only if the paper was written at all. Writing the paper myself would make me feel better (he could pass the class), but would teach him nothing except how to get out of doing difficult things.

Whatever you do, if it doesn't fix what you expected, look to make sure that your "fix" was not dependent on outside forces you cannot control. And if a "fix" that is ouside your control doesn't work, don't take it personally.

I wish your D a lovely wedding and thereafter.

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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 10:01:34 AM by OffRoad »
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