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Author Topic: Off-Topic Anjae

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Off-Topic Anjae
OP: October 14, 2019, 01:19:21 AM
I am shocked to learn this morning that one of the members, much loved by many of us, is banned from our community. Worse still, there is no explanation that I can find.

Could someone please come and explain. It is hard enough for an LBS to go through RL without coming to their safe place and finding that one of their friends has vanished.
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 02:59:31 AM by Thunder »
Married 1989, together since 1984 
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OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Re: Anjae
#1: October 14, 2019, 04:42:19 AM
Thank you for starting this discussion Milly.

What was even more disturbing was the banning of Anjae was being discussed on her thread, so her thread was locked.

What’s going on?
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Re: Anjae
#2: October 14, 2019, 05:16:55 AM
Thank you for your support, Nah. I don't understand why we are not told anything. It doesn't seem right.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D26, D23, S16
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Re: Anjae
#3: October 14, 2019, 05:50:14 AM
I have no insight, but looking at her last posts in her thread that is now archived post #6 stuck out to me. In that she directly called out other members fo the post and essentially called them a problem, and commented on other members choices and their right to participate. I am guessing this crossed a line about rules of the forum.

In my opinion that was no longer just stating one opinions, rather a direct attach at members. All in the context of how this should be a “safe place” for people. That was rather ironic.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11158.msg744884#msg744884

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Re: Anjae
#4: October 14, 2019, 06:38:00 AM
I have been away for the weekend and just coming back to this now.

I will let RCR explain her decision and I must say that I fully support her.

Their is more to the story than is known by those that are reading and posting here.

We do have rules and boundaries and when those are continually crossed then actions need to be taken.

I am sorry that it has come to this and I know that RCR feels the same way.

As for further details I think that is really up to RCR.
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Re: Anjae
#5: October 14, 2019, 07:04:46 AM
I have no insight, but looking at her last posts in her thread that is now archived post #6 stuck out to me. In that she directly called out other members fo the post and essentially called them a problem, and commented on other members choices and their right to participate. I am guessing this crossed a line about rules of the forum.

In my opinion that was no longer just stating one opinions, rather a direct attach at members. All in the context of how this should be a “safe place” for people. That was rather ironic.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11158.msg744884#msg744884

While those may not have been pleasing for everyone to read, they were simply personal opinions. That’s happened countless times by several members over the years.
A lifetime ban of a member who previously spent years helping the forum run makes no sense...unless there were threats of violence or the outing of another member’s personal identity.

We have had a member viciously attack others and not receive a lifetime ban.
We have multiple members with more than one account.
We have a “member” who posts constantly and has been aggressively defensive but refuses to register under her own account (which is confusing and will be a total mess for people reading the archives down the road).

We have seen countless breaking of rules and actions that go against the mission statement.

We have lots of behavior that goes unaddressed and unaccounted for constantly on this forum.
Most of us just deal with it because we recognize we are all adults and sometimes people can be difficult to interact with.

This forum existed for a decade before “moderation rules” had to be instated. Why are people suddenly running to the moderators and RCR every time something is said that upsets or bothers them? Who are we?

What concerns me most is the very noticeable change in the atmosphere of forum over the last year and a half or so (and what has influenced that change in atmosphere), the very obvious change in opinion of Anjae after a long and underhanded (for lack of a better word) and sometimes blatant campaign to repaint her as a villain (so many members, especially newer members viewed her in that light), and the lack of compassion or benefit of the doubt given to her recent more abrasive behavior, given that others have behaved terribly and been given something of a pass because it’s assumed (or possibly known) that they are dealing with personal issues.

I mean, really, a lifetime ban? It seems to me a cooling off period and then a PM exchange (or even a public forum discussion) could have been a possibility. Or any other number of ways to deal with it.

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Re: Anjae
#6: October 14, 2019, 07:15:34 AM
I just wanted to say that this is not the first time that Anjae has been moderated. How do I know this? Because she revealed some personally identifying information about me that I had not shared with her (obviously gotten through the grapevine) in the public forum and RCR put her on moderation for a period of time a few months ago as a result. At the time RCR thanked me for giving her a very specific violation of the rules to moderate, because as she told me, most complaints she gets requesting moderation are vague.

This could explain why such severe actions are being taken this time, if indeed she has actually broken a rule again, because it would be a repeat infraction.

However, I have not seen any posts that go beyond the level of opinion either from her, which she is entitled to have and express and I do not wish that she be banned. Oddly enough, the same day she was banned others were making posts telling people to basically shut up and/or to ignore what some of us were saying. I'm with Nas, this is just some hard to get along people and does not warrant banning either. But I do think there is an issue of fairness. If Anjae is banned, why aren't OTHERS banned for what should be cut and dry behavior?
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 07:17:37 AM by Not Your Monkey »

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Re: Anjae
#7: October 14, 2019, 07:41:53 AM
I just wanted to say that this is not the first time that Anjae has been moderated. How do I know this? Because she revealed some personally identifying information about me that I had not shared with her (obviously gotten through the grapevine) in the public forum and RCR put her on moderation for a period of time a few months ago as a result. At the time RCR thanked me for giving her a very specific violation of the rules to moderate, because as she told me, most complaints she gets requesting moderation are vague.



To be clear, by personally identifying, I am talking about a person's real name, email address, or anything else that could allow them to be tracked down on social media, etc.
Many people reveal where they live - I choose not to, but others don't feel that is something to be kept private.

NYM, I believe you are talking about personal details of your situation that you shared with others on PM and that somehow got back to Anjae and she shared on the forum.
That's different from what I'm talking about, which, again, is information that could allow a person to be identified in the real world.

I know nothing of your personal situation and my understanding is that you choose to share a lot more details with a select group of people via PM (this understanding I have comes from things you've posted).  If Anjae became privy to information about you that you shared via PM, there are two issues, neither of which are really forum violations, imo:
1) you are sharing your info via PM with people who are sharing it with others.  Nothing RCR or anyone else can do about the "grapevine" and that has to do with your method of sharing info and with whom you share it.

2) If someone shares info they got via PM with another member, it's hard to follow the origins of the info and know if it's ever been shared publicly.  Unless we have clear cut knowledge that someone said to Anjae "NYM did x, but don't tell anyone because she told me in confidence and doesn't want it public" and then we have clear cut knowledge that Anjae intentionally stated something publicly that she knew she was told in confidence. 
If someone told me over PM "NYM did x" and then time goes on and I read many different discussions and life goes on, I may not know or remember if I heard it via PM or in a post and I might accidentally use it as an example in a discussion.
So if Anjae was actually moderated for that, that also seems to fall into the borderline category, not clear cut violation of someone's privacy.

The other part - the fact that RCR receives many complaints about vague bending of the rules or because someone gets their feelings hurt...to me, that is troublesome.  Again I ask, why are we running to the moderators every time we see something we don't like?  Why did the forum handle issues among the membership for like 10 years but now suddenly we need to report our hurt feelings and try to have members banned? 

What do you do in the workplace when you have to deal with a difficult person?  What do you do in real life?  There are difficult people everywhere.  There are people with different opinions everywhere.

I've been here for many years now and I've read a lot of the archives.  We've always had extremely heated discussions and members have fought with each other over things and really strong personal opinions have always been stated.  What has changed? 
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Re: Anjae
#8: October 14, 2019, 08:00:15 AM
You know, I know what personally identifying information is and it was personally identifying information that I had made a special effort not to reveal publicly, but it was not spelled out directly by Anjae. She made references to things that a person with reasonably good general knowledge about the world could have deduced personally identifying information about me from it. The posts in question were edited by OP at my request when it occurred. The decision to moderate her was taken by RCR at her own initiative. I did not ask for moderation, just that my information be removed.

I should also say it is information that Anjae had previously publicly guessed about me (at that time, she was totally wrong in her guess) so I do feel it was something she was digging for about me for some time.

It was not information about my situation. That's another matter entirely and it is NOT what I asked to be edited out.
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 08:03:02 AM by Not Your Monkey »

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Re: Anjae
#9: October 14, 2019, 08:04:03 AM
Wow, gone for a week and SHTF.

I have had a few runins with Anjae in the past...she isn't the most likable person online by the way she posts (never met her in real life), but to ban her (if this is indeed true)???

I'm with NAS.  Something has drastically changed on this forum.  Seems like we have some members that if they don't agree with something said, they run to the mods for retribution.

I haven't been here as long as some, but I just can't help but think if the likes of LP, or Stayed, or any other long term 2x4 wielding old timers were still continually posting today, they would be short lived as well.

-T
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 08:24:52 AM by terrified_in_TN »

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Re: Anjae
#10: October 14, 2019, 08:08:51 AM
Okay. I stand corrected.
I also stand by my opinion that personally identifying information is a name, email address, workplace or professional affiliations, etcetera that would easily lead directly to a person’s real identity.
If information was shared that you didn’t want shared, you are within your rights to ask to have it removed, as we all are.

Removing the information is reasonable.  Post moderation for stating the general region that someone is from (when it's not entirely clear if it's been stated before) seems a bit excessive. Just my personal opinion.
Many members state they are from Canada.  Or Europe.  Or the relatively small state of Tennessee in the US.  I don't consider that personally identifiable information that could help someone locate them.
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 09:38:39 AM by Nas »
The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

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Re: Anjae
#11: October 14, 2019, 08:31:32 AM
As is evidenced by my post count I am much more a reader than a contributor.  Why?  Because I stopped finding Hero Spouse to be a “safe haven”.  Much of my feelings stem from the disruptive nature of Anjae’s posts.

I came to this great resource weak and demoralized, struggling to make sense of it all.  I am stronger now and upon reflection realize many of the posters who’s stories and ideas helped me the most are the same ones Anjae took serious issue with. That is OK. What is not acceptable to me is that she often took the stance that these people do not belong here.  I thought it would stop when RCR made it clear one of the people she took issue with was welcome, but nothing changed.

It has been expressed quite recently that the rancor has caused a new member to re-think sharing their story.  That is sad, because if Anjae feels HS should be a safe haven, her own posts are not in line with her own goal.


The Hero's Spouse Mission Statement. Love each other, Love your Spouses and Love yourselves. The Unconditionals apply to everyone.


It has been mentioned that the tone of HS has changed in the last year and a half. If that is in fact the case, wasn’t it about that time frame that HS tag line changed from being a Site for Standers to being one for the support for LBS’rs?  If so then I can understand how the tonal change may have started.

The ability to support “Standing” is less prone to interpretation than “Support”. “Support” to me can mean anything from a fervent doctrine of “Standing” all the way to what Chump Lady champions, which is quite the opposite.  Given the breadth of “support” possibilities and our own personal definitions of support is it really that surprising that more conflicts arise?
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Re: Anjae
#12: October 14, 2019, 09:01:45 AM
My best call on this fwiw is that it seems rather strange - so there are probably things I don't know - and it seems out of character for RCR and her previous stance on these things - so there are probably things I don't know.

Perhaps it would make sense to wait for RCR to clarify the situation?

As a general stance, I'm not a fan of banning people except for egregious things.
Personally I think it would be nice if people acknowledged or apologised a little more quickly if it is brought to their attention that they misinterpreted something or inadvertently trod heavily on someone's emotional foot. Just like Nas did here.
My best guess is that this doesn't happen more bc people want to be 'right' at the time more than they want to be fair minded, so they restate or justify their first response. Which rarely seems to help much.

I don't see reading back that there was less contention or blunt speaking tbh but I do see a little more acceptance of difference and acknowledgement of it. Smaller group maybe? Different folks playing?

I often wonder if there would be less need for moderation if more of us simply virtually detached and zipped our reply lips on some threads, with some individual posters who may not be our cup of tea (or vice versa) or with some discussions that circle round on themselves? If we sometimes responded here with the rule of 3 a little more just like we learn to do in RL with not so rational spouses....I'd rather let my feet (fingers) speak for me than ban posters. Jmo.
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 09:04:04 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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Re: Anjae
#13: October 14, 2019, 09:06:03 AM

It has been mentioned that the tone of HS has changed in the last year and a half. If that is in fact the case, wasn’t it about that time frame that HS tag line changed from being a Site for Standers to being one for the support for LBS’rs? 

I have noted the change in tagline previously and expressed surprise at it. To me it feels like a bit of a bait and switch. We came to the forum on one premise and then that premise has been discarded. RCR may have her reasons for that change, but I for one would appreciate an explanation for it.
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Re: Anjae
#14: October 14, 2019, 09:12:39 AM
Just to clarify my understanding, NYM, are you saying that you came here bc it was a standing site, feel that was changed without your agreement (hence the bait and switch phrase which implies to me some feeling of being conned?) so the site no longer fulfils the same purpose for you? Would you prefer it to return to a Standers/reconciled only site and therefore suggest people should leave/not post if they are no longer able or willing to stand? Or the balance of purpose between standing vs MLC?

No judgment either way - you have the right to your opinion -  just wanted to be sure I understood the implication of the point you were making.

And how do you see the connection between this point and the thread issue about Anjae (or others) being banned? I'm a little unclear on that.
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 09:33:08 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

nah

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Re: Anjae
#15: October 14, 2019, 09:20:51 AM
I have been here since 2014 and have never been a traditional stander.

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Re: Anjae
#16: October 14, 2019, 09:39:17 AM
When you change the entire mission of a support forum overnight without an explanation, that is a little strange. It's RCR's forum, she can do what she wants, but I do feel that when you make a place for a certain group of people and then open it up to those who might be hostile to the mission of the original group without explaining why you do it, then conflicts can arise and no one has any grounds to understand why things are the way they are. It's a lack of transparency.

It has nothing to do with Anjae other than I am replying to something someone said in this thread, as a normal conversation proceeds.
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Re: Anjae
#17: October 14, 2019, 09:40:47 AM
I have been here since 2014 and have never been a traditional stander.



I've been here since 2015, never noticed the original tagline or the change in it.
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Re: Anjae
#18: October 14, 2019, 09:43:01 AM
I am posting this on Anjae's behalf. I have no idea if it will be deleted or I will be reprimanded, but she should at least be allowed final words to defend herself so there is some balance to this situation. As LBSs, we are robbed of that too often!

Quote
"The reason I was banned was because I created a second account, Blue Belle. Many members have second accounts. I informed RCR that I was going to create a second account.

I had been, again, put under moderation, this time for 2-3 months. I told RCR this time it
was too much. There was no real good reason other than opinions like I'm rude (opinion,
since rude for one person is blunt for another), some people do not like my posts, I disrupt the board, and so on.

Yet, like Nas said, there is no shortage of people doing lots of trully terrifying stuff,
on HS and nothing happens. For years HS run without any moderation, aside from a very
extreme case which took months of mods discussions to have the person moderated, Rugged,
who was constantly posting drunk insults to women.

Technically, the reason for my ban is that I broke the sancions, not exactly what I posted.

What I posted was the reason for the 2-3 months moderation that I did not agree with. There
is no way of appeal, a very undemocratic process if you ask me. In a court of law one can
appeal.

Both, the 2-3 months moderation and the life badn are totally unfair, but that is up to
RCR.

The Code Of Conduct is vague in several things, because said things are vague and based on
opinion.

The board tone did change a year, a year and a half ago. For years I, LP, Stayed, even
Ready2 or Nah were not seen as being a problem. Then we started to be.

As for Goner/Moneky, the reason RCR gave me to put me under moderation Goner/Monkey related was that I had revealed the country Goner/Monkey lives at. I never mentioned the country.

-edit - removed for too much personal information  - OldPilot

RCR never showed me the post where I name the country, I never named the country.

Some of you, especially people who have arrived on HS on the last year, year and a half do
not like me. Like someone is not reason to constantly report the person. Some of you constantly reported my posts because they are not what you want to read/hear, you find the tone this or that. Yet, I have never once called names to anyone, threatened to harm anyone, wished MLC or death upon anyone. Some have done those things.

Anyone that wants to keep in touch with me can do so through my e-mail address.

For the record, I was a HS tech mod for many years. I know how to create and account with a different IP or how to post with one. I could had done one of those things and I would had not been baned, but I played fair and told RCR what I was going to do. 

In fact, all it takes to have a different IP is to go to the mall, the library, a café. No sneaky stuff is needed. "
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 09:51:19 AM by OldPilot »

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Re: Anjae
#19: October 14, 2019, 09:52:37 AM
I am posting this on Anjae's behalf. I have no idea if it will be deleted or I will be reprimanded, but she should at least be allowed final words to defend herself so there is some balance to this situation. As LBSs, we are robbed of that too often!

Quote
"The reason I was banned was because I created a second account, Blue Belle. Many members have second accounts. I informed RCR that I was going to create a second account.

I had been, again, put under moderation, this time for 2-3 months. I told RCR this time it
was too much. There was no real good reason other than opinions like I'm rude (opinion,
since rude for one person is blunt for another), some people do not like my posts, I disrupt the board, and so on.

Yet, like Nas said, there is no shortage of people doing lots of trully terrifying stuff,
on HS and nothing happens. For years HS run without any moderation, aside from a very
extreme case which took months of mods discussions to have the person moderated, Rugged,
who was constantly posting drunk insults to women.

Technically, the reason for my ban is that I broke the sancions, not exactly what I posted.

What I posted was the reason for the 2-3 months moderation that I did not agree with. There
is no way of appeal, a very undemocratic process if you ask me. In a court of law one can
appeal.

Both, the 2-3 months moderation and the life badn are totally unfair, but that is up to
RCR.

The Code Of Conduct is vague in several things, because said things are vague and based on
opinion.

The board tone did change a year, a year and a half ago. For years I, LP, Stayed, even
Ready2 or Nah were not seen as being a problem. Then we started to be.

As for Goner/Moneky, the reason RCR gave me to put me under moderation Goner/Monkey related was that I had revealed the country Goner/Monkey lives at. I never mentioned the country.

-edit - removed for too much personal information  - OldPilot

RCR never showed me the post where I name the country, I never named the country.

Some of you, especially people who have arrived on HS on the last year, year and a half do
not like me. Like someone is not reason to constantly report the person. Some of you constantly reported my posts because they are not what you want to read/hear, you find the tone this or that. Yet, I have never once called names to anyone, threatened to harm anyone, wished MLC or death upon anyone. Some have done those things.

Anyone that wants to keep in touch with me can do so through my e-mail address.

For the record, I was a HS tech mod for many years. I know how to create and account with a different IP or how to post with one. I could had done one of those things and I would had not been baned, but I played fair and told RCR what I was going to do. 

In fact, all it takes to have a different IP is to go to the mall, the library, a café. No sneaky stuff is needed. "

I truly hope this post remains here.

As LBS, we have all been stonewalled and silenced in a traumatic way by our MLCers (and possibly in-laws and others).
This is supposed to be a place where we are able to speak our truths.
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Re: Anjae
#20: October 14, 2019, 09:56:18 AM
When you change the entire mission of a support forum overnight without an explanation, that is a little strange. It's RCR's forum, she can do what she wants, but I do feel that when you make a place for a certain group of people and then open it up to those who might be hostile to the mission of the original group without explaining why you do it, then conflicts can arise and no one has any grounds to understand why things are the way they are. It's a lack of transparency.

It has nothing to do with Anjae other than I am replying to something someone said in this thread, as a normal conversation proceeds.

So it sounds as if for you Standing is more important in the purpose than MLC if push comes to shove? I ask bc I am conscious that there are other standing sites but are there other MLC sites other than HB? Idk.

And you did not answer my question NYM about whether you would prefer to remove those 'hostile to the mission' if by that I am right to infer you mean standing?

I understand that you were building on someone else point as you say but given that you did build on it and on this thread, I presume logically you see some sort of link if only an issue of who should be here and who not in an ideal world from your POV? That it was more than just a random comment?
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 09:58:59 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Anjae
#21: October 14, 2019, 09:59:06 AM
FYI-The old tagline:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180128061050/http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/

It's RCR's forum and she can make the mission whatever she wants. But even a business or non-profit organization, if it changes its mission or scope of work, tends to put out a press release explaining it. It's the lack of transparency on the change that bothers me. Nothing more.

Treasur, to be honest, I am not going to answer your question simply because what you are asking me about is so inconsequential in the big scheme of my life that you would just suck me into a waste of my time to answer it.
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 10:01:01 AM by Not Your Monkey »

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Re: Anjae
#22: October 14, 2019, 09:59:41 AM
Wow, that is really messed up.  I agree its the unwanted 2x4s to the most recent crop of LBSes that is causing such a fuss.  What use to be construed as a gentle, but blunt truth dart now seems to be interpreted as a personal insult to another's belief.

Guess I have been breaking the rules also and didn't even know it.  I have 2 accounts.  One I post under, and one I occasionally lurk under without being seen online.

At one time I suspected being "followed" therefor created the 2nd account, but have never posted with it.

Back to Anjae, AFAICT, so much for the official sanction policy.  I can't believe she would even be essentially placed in the same category of nuisance that RuggedEndurance was.

-T
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 10:07:05 AM by terrified_in_TN »

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Re: Anjae
#23: October 14, 2019, 10:03:09 AM
I see. Thank you. So, if RCR were to clarify the rationale for the change, that would be sufficient for you to consider the issue resolved? Or of course to decide that this is not the site you signed up for initially which is your right too, as it is for the rest of us.

 (I have a vague recollection that she did on some previous thread but I could be wrong, my apologies, and I can't recall it sufficiently precisely to retrieve the thread link but maybe someone else can if my recollection is right?)

Yes, TNT, I didn't know about this multiple accounts rule either although in my case I only have one. I think there may be a small number of people inadvertently breaking this rule though, some perhaps for a similar reason. Maybe RCR could clarify this issue too?
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 10:05:39 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
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Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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Re: Anjae
#24: October 14, 2019, 10:03:17 AM
PS:  Someone above mentioned Anjae at one time essentially ran someone off the forum and that they shouldn't be allowed here.  My memory isn't what it used to be, but the ONLY time I ever recall anyone being run off was when an OW joined and basically implied we were all a bunch of zelots and bitter ex spouses and tried to justify her actions.  I do believe most should be welcome (stander or not, at least to get your feet back underneath you), but in that case, I do believe such a person being here was wildly inappropriate.  So I have to agree with Anjae (again, if my memory is correct about this).

-T
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Re: Anjae
#25: October 14, 2019, 10:04:57 AM
I’m not sure how a more inclusive tagline is a bait and switch. Many people start out standing and for any number of reasons begin to make different choices. So HS being welcoming of that is a good thing. That doesn’t make the group hostile to standing it simply means that it is supportive of LBS progress and healing. 

Thanks for posting Anjaes response.
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Re: Anjae
#26: October 14, 2019, 10:06:12 AM
Wow, that is really messed up.  I agree its the unwanted 2x4s to the most recent crop of LBSes that is causing such a fuss.  What use to be construed as a gentle, but blunt truth dart now seems to be interpreted as a personal insult to another's belief.

Guess I have been breaking the rules also and didn't even know it.  I have 2 accounts.  One I post under, and one I occasionally lurk under without being seen online.

At one time I suspected being "followed" therefor created the 2nd account, but have never posted with it.

Back to Anjae, AFAICT, so much for the official sanction policy.

-T
There are no rules against two accounts however we know and can figure out who has more than one account - so when you break the TOS and are put on moderation and then want to avoid that by creating another account don't you think there is something wrong with that?
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Re: Anjae
#27: October 14, 2019, 10:09:41 AM
Nothing wrong with that at all OP.  I just didn't see that happen in this case, BUT....I've been gone awhile so could have easily missed it.  But thank you for the clarification that 2 accounts is okay, so long as they aren't abused.

-T
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Re: Anjae
#28: October 14, 2019, 10:17:23 AM
I see. Thank you. So, if RCR were to clarify the rationale for the change, that would be sufficient for you to consider the issue resolved? Or of course to decide that this is not the site you signed up for initially which is your right too, as it is for the rest of us.


I am going to only repeat this once. I simply am not interested in answering your question because it is not a priority topic in my life. I have more pressing things to do and think about. Not all of us are interested in analyzing the motives of everyone in this forum.
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Re: Anjae
#29: October 14, 2019, 10:18:40 AM
Nothing wrong with that at all OP.  I just didn't see that happen in this case, BUT....I've been gone awhile so could have easily missed it.  But thank you for the clarification that 2 accounts is okay, so long as they aren't abused.

-T

She created another account last night and posted with it. She also PM'ed me (and maybe others from it). To be honest, at first I had no idea who she was when she wrote to me and said she was banned. I had to ask her who she was. I have to admit I was the last person I expected she would have PM'ed under the circumstances.  ;D
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Re: Anjae
#30: October 14, 2019, 10:20:59 AM
Ready, thank you very much for posting Anjae's message, at least now we have some idea of what happened.

Old Pilot, I suspected there might be a 'good' reason why you all/RCR decided to ban Anjae, but I'm not a child and I expect the respect of being informed when someone I invested years of my life with is removed - puff! just like that. Feels like a mini-BD, and you all know how sensitive we LBSs are now to people pulling the rug on us.

My opinion of Anjae's violations as she describes them: minor.  Of course, the secrecy is probably aimed at giving me the impression that the violation was extremely serious so unless you all want to share with the rest of us, I won't know.

I can only base my opinions on the information I have so far. Anjae might not be everyone's cup of tea, so what? Can't we live and let live? She's not telling people to hurt others, she's not calling standers stupid. She's offered so much support, a different point of view, whether you like her or not, you can count on her. She will be here.

I think the best lesson, if someone is not following set rules, is to inform them and everyone and give them a chance to apologize/correct. That way if there really is something serious, we can learn. What can we possibly learn from throwing out people whose writing we don't like? Like I said, she didn't offend people, she listens, she sympathizes. If you don't agree with her, you don't have to. Like someone else said, this is life.

I don't want to belong to a cult. I don't want to feel it's the Hunger Games. I felt safe here. It took me years to build up the courage to post too because I worried I'd get 2X4s. But you know what, getting the unwanted comments helped me grow.

We have done so well here. So many of us have been saved by this site. Please let's give each other a chance to speak and correct. And please, when we ask for answers about one of our members, don't leave us in the dark. We deserve more. I say this as a huge fan of HS.
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Re: Anjae
#31: October 14, 2019, 10:22:46 AM
I see. Thank you. So, if RCR were to clarify the rationale for the change, that would be sufficient for you to consider the issue resolved? Or of course to decide that this is not the site you signed up for initially which is your right too, as it is for the rest of us.


I am going to only repeat this once. I simply am not interested in answering your question because it is not a priority topic in my life. I have more pressing things to do and think about. Not all of us are interested in analyzing the motives of everyone in this forum.

I see. Well thank you for sharing your priorities and POV so clearly, NYM.
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Re: Anjae
#32: October 14, 2019, 10:26:11 AM
Nothing wrong with that at all OP.  I just didn't see that happen in this case, BUT....I've been gone awhile so could have easily missed it.  But thank you for the clarification that 2 accounts is okay, so long as they aren't abused.

-T

She created another account last night and posted with it. She also PM'ed me (and maybe others from it). To be honest, at first I had no idea who she was when she wrote to me and said she was banned. I had to ask her who she was. I have to admit I was the last person I expected she would have PM'ed under the circumstances.  ;D

Thank you for the clarification.  I did indeed miss that.  Big oppsie on her part.  Although her posting style was a bit brash at times, I for one will miss her and feel the ban was a bit on the excessive side.  Repeating my earlier comment, I just don't think she belongs in the same category as RuggedEndurance (who also received a lifetime ban iirc).

-T
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 10:29:20 AM by terrified_in_TN »

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Re: Anjae
#33: October 14, 2019, 10:39:33 AM
Although there was never a formal notification regarding the tagline - I think, from reading RCR's posts, that it seems that her opinion on the outcomes for MLCers has changed.



It has been mentioned that the tone of HS has changed in the last year and a half. If that is in fact the case, wasn’t it about that time frame that HS tag line changed from being a Site for Standers to being one for the support for LBS’rs? 

I have noted the change in tagline previously and expressed surprise at it. To me it feels like a bit of a bait and switch. We came to the forum on one premise and then that premise has been discarded. RCR may have her reasons for that change, but I for one would appreciate an explanation for it.

Quote
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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 22
« Reply #89 on: October 03, 2019, 03:15:03 PM »


I do not believe that most MLCers will want to return once they are out of MLC. Some will and it will even go so far as to communicate such a desire, some will and yet will not let you or anyone know—so how can they be part of the YES stat…they can’t. Some will not be interested at all and some will not think of it as an option, thereby not allowing themselves to consider it. But most, no, I don’t think so.

Now on the other topic...do most come out of MLC, I want very much to believe that and yet I no longer have an opinion other than I don't know. I know of many that don't...of course, they could come out many many years later, but where do we draw the line? An MLCer can get stuck, but they can get unstuck too. But for those fantasy stats we don't have, shouldn't we include some ending time in our thoughts about whether most do or do not return... At X years after Bomb Drop most MLCers will have exited the crisis... Or at X years after MLC many MLCers will have exited, but many will also be stuck and may or may not exit in the future...

...I was one of those who took such a stat and ran with it. Someone said that 80% of MLCers return—not simply that they would want to return. I took it and spread it all over DB. I heard it at Jim Conway’s chat—can’t recall from who, but I think the person was a moderator and probably an OldTimer. I thought they were repeating something Jim had said and though his MLC situation was mild relative to what many of us here have and will experience, I respect the man for doing his research. I stopped spreading the stat only after asking Jim himself—he had not heard it and did not know who was saying it.
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Re: Anjae
#34: October 14, 2019, 10:47:17 AM
Thank you for posting that Airmid. I had remembered seeing that somewhere, or hearing about it, but didn't recall the actual post. I think that's important info for us all to absorb.

And just for the record - the second account was created a couple of nights ago when the entire event happened, not since the banning. A lot of us heard directly from Anjae with it, and as she stated in her message, she told RCR about it, too.
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Re: Anjae
#35: October 14, 2019, 10:59:00 AM


Treasur, to be honest, I am not going to answer your question simply because what you are asking me about is so inconsequential in the big scheme of my life that you would just suck me into a waste of my time to answer it.

This is quite rude.
This is also a great example of what is contributing to the change of atmosphere on the forum.

Goner.
First, you are very forthcoming about the fact that you are here to take but not give.  That's fine, and points to you for being honest about it.
But you ARE here.  So you are seemingly getting something out of the forum and its members.  So why so rude to the members you are benefiting from?

If the members you deem "hostile to the mission" or not at your intellectual level all left, you'd get far less benefit from the forum.
(And on the subject of intellect, we get the point from both your subtext and your blatant jabs:  You would feel far more at home at a Mensa meeting than you do at HS. 
You may have a high IQ or more education than some here, but it's not an excuse for your rudeness.)

You changed your username from Goner to Not Your Monkey after you were reprimanded for one of your many, many absolutely rude posts.
It does beg the question of why you find it beneficial to be here.  If you found it necessary to change your name to prove to RCR and the mods that you're "not their monkey" and you feel intellectually superior to the vast majority of people here and you are at odds with the mission statement, what keeps you coming back?

Other than, I suppose, the possibility of responses like this one from me that feed into your seeming love of drama. (Yes, I do know I'm feeding it.  I'm quite a lot smarter than you might think.  Maybe not on your level, but maybe I'll add that to my #LBSgoals.)
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Re: Anjae
#36: October 14, 2019, 11:22:46 AM
Ready2Transform, thank you very much for sharing Anjae’s message.
It is always better to have both sides of the story, I believe. 

Please pass on my sincere thanks to Anjae for her thoughtful and most helpful comments and POV, especially on my thread.  I found her honest, straightforward, wise and kind, even when some comments initially did not sit well with me.  But then, I would see that the uncomfortable parts of me are exactly what I need to see and work on. 

And, I think she is one of the best at detecting BS and calling them out.
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Re: Anjae
#37: October 14, 2019, 11:23:16 AM
I always liked Anjaes comments. Some were harder to hear than others. But I always felt she had a great deal of compassion even if it didn’t necessarily translate. I’ll miss her!
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Re: Anjae
#38: October 14, 2019, 11:52:40 AM
Anjae has been banned after I notified her that she was being sanctioned at a higher level for Code of Conduct violations—she was already under sanction. This is an excerpt from PM to me:
Hi again, RCR.

I believe you are aware I can create a new account, as many members do. It will be a new account and user name, therefore a diffent user. Since I want to keep posting, I may do just that. Why am I telling you this, because I play fair.

I was completely willing to continue her original sanction status or increase it to a temporary period of no posting had it only been a threat. By the time I returned to the board she had already created her additional account. Anjae has not been banned because of what or how she posts. She has not been banned simply for creating a second account; that in itself is not against the rules. She has been banned for her abusive purpose in creating that account—that purpose being to get around being sanctioned and not follow the Code of Conduct. Membership on this site is a privilege; Anjae lost that privilege by blatantly refusing to abide by the rules of the site. She has had a history of disrespecting the rules and I have spoken to her multiple times. This is not something that began when I created the Code of Conduct or even 18 months ago. She has a history of complaints against her and as I said, I have spoken to her multiple times.

I like Anjae and did not want it to come to this. I hate banning, but she crossed the line.

Yes, there are many others who violate the code. If you have a problem with a post, PLEASE Report it by selecting the report to moderator link at the bottom right of each post. I reviewed old reports and there were very few. This means most complaints are going unreported. I have read references to some of these issues—some in PMs to me and others in public posts, but no direct reporting to me or through the system. I am also looking for a modification to add that will notify me personally when a report is made. For me to take action, I need to be told there is a problem. I need to be told this in detail--reporting a post will take me to the post; most who reference indirectly don't give me a link or even a thread title for searching. Then I need your reason for reporting the post. The report is not anonymous in that the moderators and I can see who reports--others cannot. If you prefer complete anonymity you may submit to me through the Ask A Question box at the main site and blog.

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Re: Anjae
#39: October 14, 2019, 11:55:29 AM
But then, I would see that the uncomfortable parts of me are exactly what I need to see and work on. 



I love this, for all of us.
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Re: Anjae
#40: October 14, 2019, 12:34:09 PM
We have seen countless breaking of rules and actions that go against the mission statement.

We have lots of behavior that goes unaddressed and unaccounted for constantly on this forum.
Most of us just deal with it because we recognize we are all adults and sometimes people can be difficult to interact with.

I understand that as adults we don’t want to over report and seem like we are whining, but instead handle it ourselves or ignore it…

And frankly, I thank you for that. But at the same time it means that I am unaware when some things do happen that are upsetting to many people. Since I don’t know, I do nothing, since I do nothing I am then criticized for doing nothing. By the time I hear about stuff, there are multiple issues and it can be quite overwhelming—as I often have more back research to do to figure out what is going on. Most of my time is spent responding to the fires and that did not start 18 months ago. Or 2 years or even 3…

Right now, I personally would prefer that people use the reporting system—because I then have a single place to go that keeps a history of reports. But you can PM me or tell another mod or submit to the Ask a Question. The important thing simply is that I am made aware of the specifics—what thread or post with a link and why—why is that thread or post a problem—or person?


I have noted the change in tagline previously and expressed surprise at it.

THANK YOU so much for this. I want and need this kind of feedback. And especially thank you for the link so I could figure out what you were talking about—as I was confused.

I had no intention of changing the tagline—and that original tag is still in the header at the main site, just not the landing home page because that has a unique header. What I did was update some designs and change the header design. With that design, I could not fit the longer line and so I used an alternative—I have always had several head banners available. I was working on creating slightly different headers for the different places—blog, forum and was working back then on another social media place that I am WAY stalled on. I wanted each to have an identifier for its unique place in HS as well as a side of the banner that was the same. So I put the logo in the middle for the blog forum and non-existent social media site.
I can either find one of my other headers or redesign them keeping the idea of an identifier that is unique for the forum and blog and make sure the original tag fits. I LOVE that tag—if you look at the proposed book cover on the main site home, you will see it is the subtitle. Though it is not a huge priority and for the forum, I think I will need to ask Sir Osis to help put it up—he did it for me when I was redesigning.
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Re: Anjae
#41: October 14, 2019, 12:43:07 PM
I just want to add that I have been here since RCR started the site, and I have been on DB a year longer.

The biggest change here is that we have many more users and posters than when we started .

At one point we had more volunteers and moderators than we have now.

Of course with more people and less moderators there is only so much resource to go around.

We have failed to have new mentors/moderators volunteer and give back to this site.

PAY IT FORWARD always used to be the way things worked but that has been eroded and lost.

I have not been able to devote as much time and the same is true for RCR who now has a large family to take care of.

I can only hope that the current trend will start to reverse itself.
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Re: Anjae
#42: October 14, 2019, 12:49:01 PM
OP you can put my name in, if it's helps for anything.

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Re: Anjae
#43: October 14, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from OP:
Quote
The biggest change here is that we have many more users and posters than when we started .

At one point we had more volunteers and moderators than we have now.

Of course with more people and less moderators there is only so much resource to go around.

We have failed to have new mentors/moderators volunteer and give back to this site.

PAY IT FORWARD always used to be the way things worked but that has been eroded and lost.

An indicator of the change in 'atmosphere' at HS perhaps?

I no longer post very often, but still read from time to time.  This site and the support we all received and in turn, gave back to others, absolutely saved my sanity during the most difficult time in my life.  A lifetime ban for Anjae is a huge disappointment.  She has given so much of her own time to this site and the posters.

I'm so very confused by all of this as I am not here very often, but Goner, didn't your name used to be 'goner in *****'? (your country presumably?)
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Re: Anjae
#44: October 14, 2019, 02:13:19 PM
Maybe it's just me but I still don't get it:

RCR
"Anjae has been banned after I notified her that she was being sanctioned at a higher level for Code of Conduct violations—she was already under sanction."

What was she being sanctioned for? May we know? Maybe I'm not fully understanding it, but what I get from it is that she was sanctioned a second time for something, so she opened a new account, and even told you. Apparently, others have done this, too. Why the second sanction to Anjae in the first place? And why the life time ban for something she wasn't hiding?

I'm sorry, this just feels very unfair to me. RCR, I know this is your site, but you brought us all into it and now we are very attached to it and the people in it. I do not believe that Anjae was the worst of posters, or a bad person in any way. Why her? Why someone who's given sooo much? I'm sorry, this feels so wrong to me. I'm not one to usually want to be a part of controversies, but this just doesn't convince me, I'm sorry.
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Re: Anjae
#45: October 14, 2019, 04:31:16 PM
Milly,

I'm not trying to convince anyone, I am simply explaining my reasons.
Anjae has been under sanctions a few times. She continues to disregard the Code of Conduct and has not changed her behavior, not once or twice but continuously.
No, she is not the worst poster, but she is a continual offender.  The initial reasons she was under sanction got her into this since she would not have been put on moderated post status otherwise--that means her posts must be approved by a moderator before being posted publicly. Her telling me that she was going to get around the rules (by starting another account) does not mean I should ignore the action or take it lightly. This is happening after repeated behaviors.
She has given much to this site and was counted on as a moderator for several years; that does not give her a free pass to flout the rules.

I did not want it to come to this and I hated having to do it. But I feel it was necessary.
Others have not opened second accounts to get around rules. Second accounts are not against the rules.
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Re: Anjae
#46: October 14, 2019, 05:26:43 PM
I found some of Anjae's commentary very truthful and insightful. But I also found her triggering as someone who had experienced severe emotional abuse. I'm not just writing this about comments to me, but to others as well. Routinely engaging others in unwanted debate or forcing them to defend opinions over and over (even when they directly ask her not to) should be unacceptable on a forum where many of the participants have CPTSD and PTSD and are recovering from serious psychological abuse.

There was a poster a while back who was very informed about frontotemporal lobe disorders. She had a lot to contribute, I think, and her posts were extremely helpful to me and I think others as well. I was really shocked the way she was so consistently shut down by Anjae and some others. One of her main concerns was that many LBS become suicidal. She wanted to help inform people that, looked at from a medical standpoint, this had nothing to do with them, their value, or their marriage — information that could help them more quickly detach and also advocate for themselves and protect themselves financially, emotionally, and legally. I found it very upsetting that someone who was well researched and had a lot to say, who herself had endured so much, was treated so poorly by people whose life experience should have shown them the value of kindness above all else.

People should not arrive at a forum seeking refuge and understanding and be subject to to any type of mistreatment, harassment, or be forced to consistently argue with one poster. I know that there are people who I don't agree with, but I don't follow them around the forum arguing with their every post. I don't think any of us needs this.

My personal feeling is that it is responsible of RCR to treat this forum as a support and even triage for LBS, not for standers. We don't know what MLC is, if our spouses all have the same thing, or what the prognosis is. I deeply disagree with any poster — especially a longterm one — who either insists this is depression (which we cannot know it is), or insists that most MLCers recover. This can only be something determined on a case by case basis and with the right FULL information, even if it might contradict a theory of what MLC is or could be.

If this is truly a forum to protect LBS, then it needs to help them find support in real life, too. Shutting down people repeatedly who ask about possible connections to mental illness or other possible diagnoses, to me, is deeply irresponsible when people's homes, children, and even lives may be at stake.

I don't know the details and, again, I really appreciated some aspects of Anjae's personality and posts. I do think, though, that there needs to be a commitment to adhere to a certain code of conduct so as not to further traumatize or harm very fragile or recovering people.
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Re: Anjae
#47: October 14, 2019, 05:56:42 PM
Velika,

Anjae was not banned for disagreeing that MLC is not the same as FTD.

This makes me sick. Who are we to judge another poster? To throw mud at her when she cannot even defend herself.

Who will be next. You? Me?

It is fine to express your feelings about Anjae's ban from HS..it is NOT fine to criticize someone's beliefs that do not agree with yours. Beliefs which I and many others shared with Anjae on this topic and which was debated over and over again.
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" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Anjae
#48: October 14, 2019, 07:08:52 PM
I agree with you, Velika.
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Re: Anjae
#49: October 14, 2019, 07:16:13 PM
I’m so confused. Lifetime bans. People complaining left and right to moderators over hurt feelings. Members I adore and respect speaking harshly about someone who can no longer respond or defend herself.
I read Ursa’s full moon report but I don’t remember it saying the whole damn world was going to turn loopy. What’s going on here?
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Re: Anjae
#50: October 14, 2019, 07:28:57 PM
When you change the entire mission of a support forum overnight without an explanation, that is a little strange. It's RCR's forum, she can do what she wants, but I do feel that when you make a place for a certain group of people and then open it up to those who might be hostile to the mission of the original group without explaining why you do it, then conflicts can arise and no one has any grounds to understand why things are the way they are. It's a lack of transparency.

It has nothing to do with Anjae other than I am replying to something someone said in this thread, as a normal conversation proceeds.
Side note: The original Tag line was Dealing with Midlife Crisis  and Infidelity When you  don't want a Divorce.  No where in there does it say "Only for Standers".  Or "Standing Required". I didn't want a divorce, ended up with one anyway. I still had to deal with Midlife Crisis when I didn't want a divorce. The mission statement has never changed snice I have been here.  "Love each other, Love your Spouses and Love yourselves. The Unconditionals apply to everyone." So I cannot see where the "entire mission" of this support forum has changed, much less "overnight". 

Perspectives are like opinions. And we all know what opinions are like. The mission statement of this support forum has nothing to do with the price of butter. imo.
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Re: Anjae
#51: October 14, 2019, 08:02:32 PM
I find several posters triggering. But I'm an adult. I don't tell ANYONE something I don't want anyone else to know. Nor would I complain if my own indiscretion got back to someone else through the grapevine. That would be on me. I learned that some posters sound kind of haughty or rude or even cruel in the written world. I try not to take it personally because they don't know me from anyone. I still remember a poster from back when who convinced another poster that I meant "abc" instead of "xyz" and I had intended to be mean, when I meant no such thing. Why the need to convince someone who originally enjoyed my post that I really meant to be mean? How does that profit anyone? Some things I will never understand....

Whatever rules were broken,  I must assume there was a valid, compelling and irrefutable reason for a lifetime ban, something more than I've seen in some other posters' writings that were quite attacking. I am saddened by what has happened, but respect that the forum owner has reign over what she considers out of bounds.

I am grateful that this forum was here when I needed it. I had no idea a member could volunteer for anything.  I thought moderators were chosen and /or asked. Lots of things about this place that I am still learning.
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Re: Anjae
#52: October 14, 2019, 08:35:21 PM
I can totally see where RCR is coming from personally........

Someone is in trouble for something or another, they are put on a restriction. The person says "I don't like the restriction, I'll just make a new account..... screw your restriction".
Well at that point it makes restrictions moot doesn't it?
There has to be order and control.... it's as simple as that.

I'm a little surprised that some people have multiple accounts though...... why? What purpose does that serve? I'm me and that's it.
People reporting people? Get some thick skin (ignore), change (if they were right and had a good point) or punch back (if they were wrong and needed a 2x4 in return). That's pretty simple too.

Too bad for Anjae......... we are all accountable for ourselves and no one else. I don't see any official of the site just going after someone at random. Quite the opposite..... I don't see RCR or anyone else waking up one day and saying "let's drop the axe on someone today"...... I'm sure it feels terrible. Ever have to fire someone before? It's awful. No, I think them banning someone takes a lot of thought, a lot of consideration and is never done lightly. So did they just throw her off because they didn't like her? No way. They had to know this wonderful type of thread would pop up right away too.... I'm sure that's what they wanted this day to be like: A firestorm of outrage over something they didn't create themselves. Ever get trapped in situations like that? Where it's not your fault and now it's YOUR mess? Oh right.... we all know what that's like.

In RCR's shoes I'd have done the same thing. In my job I'm in those shoes a lot. 100% agree with it, especially if you've told someone to knock it off. All you can give someone is fair warning, after that it's all on them.

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Together 28 years, M 25
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BD - 27th April 2019
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Re: Anjae
#53: October 14, 2019, 09:03:07 PM
I did not write anything in this post that I had not already written directly to Anjae and to you XYZ.

Yes, of course, we are all adults, and yet adults can be traumatized, vulnerable, and need protection. Many people arrive here in a deep state of shock and want to find answers. It is not okay, in my opinion, for posters like Anjae and you too XZY to repeatedly shut down any discussion that broaches the topic of mental illness and other diseases which are all KNOWN to have overlapping symptoms with what we call midlife crisis.

Many people's finances, homes, children, pets, beloved relationships are at stake. To create an environment where we can't discuss any and all possible avenues for answers, or even medical attention, is totally irresponsible, and in my opinion puts RCR at risk for being the subject of a lawsuit.

Even if just two people dedicate themselves to this, it damages the integrity of the forum and can prevent people from getting the help they need, speaking up, or finding solutions in real life.

Please ask yourself why EVERY medical professional I talked to said my now ex had symptoms of a mental illness. My sister researched bvFTD. I am surrounded by doctors and even know some neurologists. There is no way we would all be seeing such precisely similar symptoms if this were not biologically based.

The reason many of our hands are tied is precisely because of the term "midlife crisis," and stereotypes about it being a silly search for youth. It makes no sense to me that it is perfectly fine to joke that our exes are "crazy," and even note that their symptoms worsen during the full moon (consistent with other psychiatric illnesses) — but the idea that this could be medical in origin, progressive, or biophysically based is taboo.

Again, I liked Anjae's candor and found her informative and sometimes even funny. I personally would not have given her a lifetime ban just for being argumentative. But I admire RCR for taking a stand when it comes to a level of decorum on a forum with very vulnerable people who should be allowed to ask questions and even go a little off-topic when needed when so much is at stake.
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Re: Anjae
#54: October 14, 2019, 09:05:58 PM

This makes me sick. Who are we to judge another poster? To throw mud at her when she cannot even defend herself.

Who will be next. You? Me?


This.

Anjae was dealt one of the most difficult MLC situations that's been on the forum. She wasn't a stander, but maintained HOPE that her MLCer would someday return to himself regardless of marital outcome. THAT is the unconditional, agape kind of love we rarely see. You can read a harsh voice into her words if you choose to, but just like with stayed, LP, and others who have delivered the kind of no-nonsense logic that's necessary to create balance, it was always best intentioned and focused on growing our knowledge base of MLC and helping LBSs get stronger. And she did it while caring for her grandmother, moderating on the tech side of the forum, and traversing a never ending legal battle. Who here ever stopped to notice she never asked for anyone's help? Yet she has always been there if you needed some support, probably following up on more threads than the best of us at the height of our activity here.

I initially wanted to write this earlier, but I was too tempted to call out posters, and that's just going to proliferate the nonsense. In my opinion and observation I think we do go through an initial period after BD where we become a bit emotionally regressed. It's a wounding of our very basic attachment places, so of course we would. But with learning to make it through this, which can be anything from growing stronger while standing to accepting that we're on our own now (and even as RCR pointed out in the statement Airmid quoted, the reality of return likelihood is one to face), we have to reach a place of emotional maturity. And this can be a time of growth for that, for people who think they need to force people into complying with their needs, or only tell them words they want to hear.

The "Code of Conduct" was pushed by one member who doesn't even post now, but for years we operated on respect and maturity. I don't plan on hitting the notify button anytime soon, because tattling to the teacher isn't what has gotten me to the point I am now, and it won't help me move further. It's a tool for staying stuck in needing someone else to take care of things that make you uncomfortable.

If you want to form any forum into something you want it to be, limiting what it can be isn't the way. Bring ideas to the table that stimulate more conversation, more growth, more healing. If you want distraction from unwanted behavior, redirect to more positive input. Be open to hearing things you might not want to deal with that help you discover where the work needs to be done (whoever said that earlier - right on! I'm sorry I have lost the quote right now).

There are plenty of people here who have to get up every morning and figure out how they're going to feed themselves and their kids now, pay the bills, maintain a job, all while riding an anxiety loop because they're suddenly faced with a stranger where their soulmate used to be. They're making legal and financial decisions based on the information shared here. They need more than just attention - they need real support. The "squeaky wheel" threads full of drama get a lot of views, but is that the best use of anyone's time and empathy?
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Re: Anjae
#55: October 14, 2019, 11:14:39 PM
Thank you, RCR, for clarifying the events and rationale for your decision.

Without getting into the why's or who's or what's, my hope is that after a period of calm all round, you and Anjae may choose to revisit the issue of a permanent ban and that there might be a solution which sits somewhere in the middle. Whatever the outcome, many people here recognise the value of Anjae's participation on HS, her personal support for them and the strength of diverse voices here.
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Anjae
#56: October 15, 2019, 12:14:09 AM
RCR, thank you for coming here and explaining that Anjae disregarded the code of conduct again. I understand you don't want to share what the disregard was and it is your site so your call.

I would like to second what Treasur said in her last post, that you and Anjae might revisit the situation.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D26, D23, S16
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Re: Anjae
#57: October 15, 2019, 02:53:37 AM
Well said Ready! Totally agree.

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Re: Anjae
#58: October 15, 2019, 03:05:23 AM
I had no idea a member could volunteer for anything. 
I thought moderators were chosen and /or asked. Lots of things about this place that I am still learning.
Actually you are correct and we have asked people over the years and been turned down many times.
We have had moderators join our ranks and then decide to quit but still want to criticize us after they have quit.
When they were moderators they had a lot of input.

Sorry this is a sore subject with me.

I really feel like we have been more than fair and bent over backwards to try to please everyone.
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Re: Anjae
#59: October 15, 2019, 03:16:32 AM
I would also like to take this opportunity just to say - (sorry if this is going off topic a bit) but there are several other posters that I believe should be removed from this site!

They continuously start arguments, cause upsets and post controversial stuff.  There’s also a certain person that posts, that I find downright offensive! This person writes about their sexual exploits, their many relationships and personal information and none of it has anything to do with MLC and in my opinion shouldn’t be allowed to continue on a site specifically created to support LBS’s!!!




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Re: Anjae
#60: October 15, 2019, 04:07:48 AM

I really feel like we have been more than fair and bent over backwards to try to please everyone.

I don’t always agree with the herd and I know I can often rub others the wrong way but I very much believe you do everything you can to be fair.

Impossible to please everybody all of the time.





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me-53
ow-31
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I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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Re: Anjae
#61: October 15, 2019, 05:08:34 AM
Be open to hearing things you might not want to deal with that help you discover where the work needs to be done (whoever said that earlier - right on! I'm sorry I have lost the quote right now).


All credit to Acorn on that one - and I loved it too and wish it was lit up in sparkly letters in a banner across the top of every page of the site.
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Re: Anjae
#62: October 15, 2019, 03:32:18 PM
I joined the site pretty much around the time it was started.  My collision course with MLC was timed just about the time RCR got this whole thing going.

I don't post here often anymore - but do update on occasion.

For those of you who haven't been around as long, or do not know RCR's experiences with other sites - banning members was a thing that RCR did not (and probably does not) want to do.  I am sure that this decision wasn't taken lightly.

Sorry to see anyone banned.  We are all here (or should be) to help ourselves and others navigate the treacherous waters of MLC. 

I found lots of support here....and attempted to offer some myself (after I got a bit healthier).  Sure - there were times when some posters "got in my face" or maybe I unnerved someone with a thoughtless comment that I may have made. 

I just know - after all this time  (BD was way back in 2010) - I no longer look for or entertain drama in my life.  Yes...it's a bit boring now - but I DON'T miss drama!  Too many other, more important things to concern oneself with.

I've read the comments and I see that there are posters on "both sides" of this issue.  As OP has stated (many times) - this is RCR's forum...ultimately - it is up to her.

What I do see is that RCR did not moderate or attempt to stifle this thread.  Everyone has been able to have a voice.

JMHO

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D - 34, D -30, S - 30
BD 5/29/2010, Ran away from home - 8/15/2010,
Found out about affair - 2/11
H asks for divorce - 8/11
H filed for divorce 10/11
Announced "new" girlfriend 12/12 (3rd OW)
Divorce final 06/13 (I decided to finish it)
Dumped OW#3 9/15 (After 4 years)
Married OW#1 2019
OW#1 filed for divorce from ExH 9/24

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Re: Anjae
#63: October 15, 2019, 04:23:55 PM
My opinion is one account should be enough for anyone as if there’s an opinion pole multiple accounts skews the data. Also answering in different identities could possibly influence people’s opinions on topics and cause contagion as we have seen on many occasions. It would be interesting to see what the population of this site really is with singular accounts.

There has to be order in all walks of life and this site is in a state of flux in part due to its popularity and changing environment. We all need to adapt to this climate change or end up like the dinosaurs.
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Re: Anjae
#64: October 15, 2019, 05:35:48 PM
Serenity,

I agree 100 percent with what you said in your last post!!
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« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 04:12:42 AM by Thunder »
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: Anjae
#65: October 15, 2019, 09:43:23 PM
I was not surprised that this happened.

When I came here over three years ago, I really liked and valued Anjae's posts. She was smart and concise. As time has gone by, that changed for me, to the point that I had to skip over her posts (which were A LOT) because her views had seemed to calcify; they read as narrow and inflexible to me. And, too often, they lacked compassion.
It was - sorry for the cliche - triggering.

This was in stark contrast to what, I feel, RCR was seeing, as she watched our stories unfold. What had originally been a method to, hopefully, save our marriages became, as fewer and fewer of our marriages survived, a place for US to not merely survive, but to thrive.

The mission did change. Yes it did. Because the world changed. I could go on and on about that.

But that is not why Anjae was banned. She was banned because she thought she did not have to abide by the rules.
And yes, this could happen to any of us, at any time.

I'm good with that. I'm playing in RCR's sandbox.

Thanks RCR, for inviting us over to play.
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« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 10:10:08 PM by SteelSpine »
me 59, H 55
S17, S13 & S13
M 1/98

7/16 - BD - PA - OW
No legal action. Reconnected.
Done, with compassion.

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Re: Anjae
#66: October 16, 2019, 01:35:43 AM
I've only returned to the forum recently (just over a month ago) but had spent a lot of time on here a few years back and I'm sorry to read that Anjae's been banned for life.  I've always appreciated her directness in her line of questioning - even if it is sometimes hard to hear/read.  I realise that's not the reason she's been banned but it does seem to be one of the things that some people are latching onto.

I hope that with time that there could be an opportunity for Anjae to return - she has so much knowledge to share and I do believe she asks a lot of important questions.
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I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Anjae
#67: October 16, 2019, 11:18:35 AM
Good day all,

TNT, you are correct.  There is no room here for the likes of Stayed and myself, in my opinion.  I saw the writing on the wall some time ago and made the decision to quit being a mod, to stop posting for the most part and certainly to quit long writings and our discussion threads.  I am speaking only for myself in the following:

Yes, the tone has changed.  And an organization's tone starts at the top.  As OP noted, RCR has a large family and spends limited time here. She has certainly not been writing much of late on the forum resources.  Anjae used to ask her repeatedly to write new articles and update writings already posted.  Some even quietly whispered that she was becoming an absentee landlord whose building was falling into decay, that she had moved on with her life and MLC was no longer a relevant part, and surely she would fold up the site soon.  And who could blame her?  Hasn't she given enough?  And now has to waste her time refereeing perceived slights between supposed adults just to ensure this is a "safe enough haven" for all those who come here? 

Some Old Timers watched as the focus changed from the old balanced approach of get people on their feet while also helping them to heal to this powdery encouragement recognizing and affirming entitlement and victimhood for fear of offending anyone. 

The pendulum had swung too far to one side.  The balance is gone.  And it's not coming back.  Yes, in my opinion.

So, yes OP, there are more posters and fewer Mods.  In my opinion, Kikki is correct in asking if that isn't the result of a changed atmosphere.  And, yes, on this thread there are several former Mods who came back to post who at one time had influence but are critical of the forum as it stands.  I am one of those.  But I'd disagree that anyone bent over backwards for us.  Our influence was earned.  We invested countless hours here.  We gave our time, money, and skills all while we were putting our lives back together and we had jobs, children, careers, significant others, health issues, and fought to pay our bills and make a life for ourselves. We balanced all that and were still here.

We banged our heads on the wall over and over.  It looks months of fighting to add financial protection to the discussion even after dozens of old timers were financially devastated by taking the advice to let the MLCer own the divorce.  It took years to change other things including the reassurance that MLC takes 3, 5, 7, no maybe 10 years, and MLCers will come through and want to reconcile even in the face of a decade of experience suggesting that may not be true.   We stuck our necks out when the clique quietly hinted so and so is a problem.  Yes, Nah you were never a traditional stander.  And there were people here who wanted you sanctioned during the meNow heyday of you finding yourself.  And people that defended you, who fought for you so you could have room to be nontraditional. And that came at a cost to those in time, emotion, hurt feelings, and reputation.  One of us got tagged with the stereotype of mean during that time which has stuck all these years later.  Now anything she says is seen through that label.  We were also the ones who were so mean yet cared enough to have welfare checks done on people who threatened suicide while others sat by.  But Bent over backwards for? No.  And we didnt do it for thanks or appreciation.  We did it because we cared and believed in the forum of that time and the people here.

Yet we weren't supported or in a lot of cases. And it has nothing to do with the strawman argument that no one can please everyone.  Certain people's repeated behavior was excused repeatedly.  And is still excused regardless of the code of conduct.  The high school clique is not only still alive and well but growing stronger.  One still can't disagree with some without being accused of being mean or argumentative.  That's not bending over backwards.  That's conflict avoidant codependent enabling and paving a clear path to becoming a victim of MLC which allows MLC to define one's life.  Yes, in my opinion. 

So, no, please don't expect me to be quietly loyal to this forum as it is today, so very far from the things I was taught when I first came here.  The forum I spent so much, time energy, effort, and money to support the people here.

It's that I'm tired of banging my head on the wall when it's clear the direction of the forum changed.  Anjae is the last that felt it was worth it and now she's gone.  No one dueled with Anjae long than I have.  And yet neither one of us resorted to telling mommy.  We agreed on some things, disagreed on others, and had thought provoking conversations that dozens of posters participated in.  Those conversations expanded thoughts, gave others a way to let off steam, and distract them from the zoo MLC had turned their lives into, for a few minutes.

It's interesting to this law professor the people who say there must be order and rules.  That's true.  However, tenets of law dictate that the rules apply to all fairly, that like actions are punished in like fashion, and that punishment fits the action and intent.  That includes posters and mods.  That's lacking.  Yes, in my opinion.

XYZCF asked who will be next.  And her question was brushed off, ignored.  Yet a few posts farther down a Mod notes there are certain posters she thinks need addressed, that they are inappropriate and argumentative.  Another Mod comes later and agrees with her.  What does that say?

Someone mentioned change or become a dinosaur.  Fine.  But, I'd rather be an dinosaur that's honest and true to my values than quietly say nothing when wrong is done to another.  And so, yes, we are back to the original thought by TNT, that there is no room for people like myself here.  And I'm fine with that, because my life isn't defined by MLC. 

Lp
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Re: Anjae
#68: October 16, 2019, 11:37:59 AM


XYZCF asked who will be next.  And her question was brushed off, ignored.  Yet a few posts farther down a Mod notes there are certain posters she thinks need addressed, that they are inappropriate and argumentative.  Another Mod comes later and agrees with her.  What does that say?



I'm glad you brought this up.  I believe this is the post you are referring to:

I would also like to take this opportunity just to say - (sorry if this is going off topic a bit) but there are several other posters that I believe should be removed from this site!

They continuously start arguments, cause upsets and post controversial stuff.  There’s also a certain person that posts, that I find downright offensive! This person writes about their sexual exploits, their many relationships and personal information and none of it has anything to do with MLC and in my opinion shouldn’t be allowed to continue on a site specifically created to support LBS’s!!!

In the interest of full disclosure, I have also pointed that particular post out to RCR in a PM, for the following reason:

"They continuously start arguments, cause upsets and post controversial stuff."

What is one person's definition of starting an argument differs from another's.
What upsets one person doesn't upset another.
What is controversial to one may not bother another.

The moderators now have the ability to put members on moderation (and as was pointed out, that system was put in place largely at the continued squawking of one member who doesn't even post anymore), but so much is up to personal opinion: what a moderator finds upsetting or controversial might not be so to everyone.  What one forum member complains about might not bother others. 

There are clear cut infractions: calling people derogatory names, threatening people and so on.
Then there's everything else.

And to echo Acorn and Ready2, (and myself from as far back as earlier this year during the initial blow up that resulted in the new moderation system): what feels "upsetting" might just be an opportunity for self-reflection and growth. 
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Re: Anjae
#69: October 16, 2019, 11:50:33 AM
It takes at least two people to have an argument, and sometimes the reason it becomes an argument is not because of the starter, but because of the reaction of someone else to what the first party said. It's quite amusing though that some think that only one participant in an argument should be sanctioned. This tells me that what these people don't like is not the arguing itself, but the substance of what one party is saying.

Old Pilot, with all due respect, I think that one reason that you may be having a hard time finding fair and just people to join the moderation team is that the fair and just people see the biased attitudes of the current moderation team and don't want to be part of a team where such attitudes prevail.
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« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 11:53:38 AM by Not Your Monkey »

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Re: Anjae
#70: October 16, 2019, 01:01:04 PM

Certain people's repeated behavior was excused repeatedly.  And is still excused regardless of the code of conduct.  The high school clique is not only still alive and well but growing stronger.  One still can't disagree with some without being accused of being mean or argumentative.  That's not bending over backwards.  That's conflict avoidant codependent enabling and paving a clear path to becoming a victim of MLC which allows MLC to define one's life.  Yes, in my opinion. 

<snip>

It's interesting to this law professor the people who say there must be order and rules.  That's true.  However, tenets of law dictate that the rules apply to all fairly, that like actions are punished in like fashion, and that punishment fits the action and intent.  That includes posters and mods.  That's lacking.  Yes, in my opinion.


Yes, the above is my opinion as well.

Someone observed that he/she could sense fundamental changes on the forum.  One of the biggest changes I see is what LP said:

The high school clique is not only still alive and well but growing stronger.
 
On a different note, I would like to add that there is this thing called ‘protest actions’ which may break the law or rules because his voice is silenced and he sees unfairness/inconsistency in the way punishments are handed out.  He may not see any other way to protest, except to defy the rules.  I am not suggesting that is what actually happened with Anjae but it is a possibility I am willing to consider. 
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Re: Anjae
#71: October 16, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Could the members not have a vote when a fellow member is to be banned? Can't our voices be included? May we have a say?

I miss Anjae. My BD was over 5 years ago, I post regularly, there's very few on here from all that time ago. Anjae was here when I arrived. She was a reference for me. That doesn't mean I read everything she wrote every time, or agreed with everything she wrote, but isn't that normal?

Isn't part of our growth the ability to listen to others we don't always agree with? To not take comments from others, that hit a nerve with us, personally? To learn to stand up for ourselves by ourselves? To not shut out people who make things difficult for us?

In fact for me, learning to speak out when difficult comments were made to me, was such a vital part of my growth. I believe it was fundamental to me being able to set boundaries in my current life. I was a doormat before with everyone. I was scared to say no, scared to make others not like me, scared to say something didn't suit me and therefore did it begrudgingly.  Having to come and voice my feelings here, with the knowledge that someone might not agree (and a couple did speak up on my thread at some point), allowed me to practice my boundaries. As lovely as it is to have lots of wonderful members come and support me, I do think growth comes because of having to deal with all kinds of people, including the ones who pose a challenge. I feel I missed this chance growing up. If I had had the chance to learn to set boundaries when I was younger, I would have been a much stronger person at BD, if BD would even have happened if I had matured when I was supposed to.

Anjae was able to talk about so many things. She has no kids but could be so sympathetic to those of us having a moment with one of our kids. She's not standing and says so regularly, but never once did she make me feel weak for continuing to do so. She could be funny, caring, start very intricate and often hard to follow scientific conversations that I had to skim over because they were far too difficult for me, but they showed her great capacity to learn. Wether you agreed with her view or not, she did do a lot of research. We still don't know much about this MLC crap. In all these years, all we have been able to polish is a few details like the possible length of the crisis and the possible outcome to the LBS: MLCer more likely not come back, finances more likely completely ruined, LBS more likely will need to get back to work and support herself and the kids, more likely some of the kids will not talk to the MLCer or the LBS for years. But there has been hardly or maybe no progress to determine causes of MLC or solutions. If we want to do something about this problem, we need discussions. We don't know where the answer to this devastating crisis might come from. By exchanging ideas and views, as far fetched as they might be, we might eventually find the path that leads to answers.

I'm not condoning mistreating others, but short of personally insulting or causing bodily harm to someone else, why isn't possible for grown ups to speak up for themselves when they're not happy with something? Why run to Mummy as LP says? If you don't like what someone says, say so or simply do not follow their thread. Why isn't that enough?
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Re: Anjae
#72: October 16, 2019, 02:36:42 PM
Could the members not have a vote when a fellow member is to be banned? Can't our voices be included? May we have a say?

I know you mean well Milly and have no ill will toward anyone, so I am just going to assume you did not think through what you are suggesting here. This would turn it into a popularity contest, and make it even more high school clquish than it should be. And what if the vote went against someone, do you want to be responsible for them being voted off the island like some sort of reality tv show?  This is REAL life, Milly. What you are suggesting could do more psychological damage to a hurting person than being banned by a single unfair moderator could do. Who in their right mind would post in the forum if they knew that at some point an poll would be put up to determine whether they should continue to be allowed to post?

What you are suggesting is mob rule.

Would you not agree that if someone has an unpopular view, they should still be allowed to express it?
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Re: Anjae
#73: October 17, 2019, 04:37:18 AM
NYM, thanks for pointing this out. As you imagined, I hadn’t meant it this way and I certainly don’t wish anyone harm.  So maybe a vote is not the right thing.
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Re: Anjae
#74: October 21, 2019, 09:26:15 AM
I too, miss Anjae. I learned more when someone gave me a 2 x 4 than when they gave me all the support in the world. I needed to hear things I may not have wanted to hear.

 Growth does not come without some pain. You do not challenge yourself if all you ever get are pats on the head or sympathetic responses that allow you to stay in victim mode.

 It was the hard questions and direct responses from Anjae and others that enabled me to crawl out of the abyss of grief and shock that bomb drop threw me into. It was the challenges to my beliefs and thoughts of worthlessness that enabled me to look at things I didn't want to look at and enabled me to grow a backbone, hold my head up and walk with dignity.

Don't get me wrong, the soft landings and comfort I received from others was a lifeline and a salve to my wounded spirit, but it was the tough love that made me grow.

Don't be afraid to be offended. It causes you to strengthen your argument for the things you believe. If you don't agree with someone's opinion or comments, just skip over them. Seems easy enough to me. Not everything requires a response.
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Re: Anjae
#75: October 21, 2019, 09:32:32 AM
Well said, Slow Fade.  :)
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Re: Anjae
#76: October 21, 2019, 11:37:12 AM
Agreed.
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Re: Anjae
#77: October 21, 2019, 11:50:55 AM
Agreed
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Re: Anjae
#78: October 21, 2019, 11:54:08 AM
I too, miss Anjae. I learned more when someone gave me a 2 x 4 than when they gave me all the support in the world. I needed to hear things I may not have wanted to hear.

 Growth does not come without some pain. You do not challenge yourself if all you ever get are pats on the head or sympathetic responses that allow you to stay in victim mode.


Well said. 
I miss Anjae, too...
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Re: Anjae
#79: October 21, 2019, 12:22:16 PM
To me Anjae was a big part - an important part of THS!

She always supported me and helped me as she has many, many others’ on this site!

Maybe we should start a petition to have her brought back!?!

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Re: Anjae
#80: October 21, 2019, 01:06:47 PM
I would also like to take this opportunity just to say - (sorry if this is going off topic a bit) but there are several other posters that I believe should be removed from this site!

They continuously start arguments, cause upsets and post controversial stuff.  There’s also a certain person that posts, that I find downright offensive! This person writes about their sexual exploits, their many relationships and personal information and none of it has anything to do with MLC and in my opinion shouldn’t be allowed to continue on a site specifically created to support LBS’s!!!

While you are at it, why don't you start a petition to get rid of the people you don't like?  ::)

I am completely opposed to the idea of petitions to bring back or remove members from the forum. Membership should not be by vote or popularity contest or by pressure from the loudest complainers.
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Re: Anjae
#81: October 21, 2019, 01:35:38 PM
Agreed!
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Re: Anjae
#82: October 21, 2019, 03:21:28 PM
Not too long ago NYM agreed with me about something on another thread and now I'm going to return the favor by agreeing with NYM on this issue.

I think we're even now. :D
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Re: Anjae
#83: November 14, 2019, 04:40:40 PM
No specific reason, but thought of Anjae tonight. I do miss having one of the old faithful members on the forum.
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nah

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Re: Anjae
#84: November 15, 2019, 06:17:52 AM
I think a lot of us do, Milly.
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Re: Anjae
#85: November 15, 2019, 06:38:53 AM
Ya know I remember when I started here in 2010- 2011.
There was something that was added to some posters threads. It went something like this.

Take whatever you feel might be helpful in whatever comment/ advise/ insight/ observation someone else posted on your (or someone else's) thread and IGNORE the rest.

It's like any other social media, you don't like the meme or the subject matter of a thread? Keep scrolling.

 How did it happen that everyone gets so offended by just about anything?

Someone posts a lot about a subject matter you find offensive?

Don't read their thread.

If you are frustrated by your efforts to try to enlighten someone to do some self reflection and they get offended?

Stop posting on their thread.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: Anjae
#86: November 15, 2019, 06:52:15 AM
Milly... I miss her everytime I come on HS.  She was here the 1st time I posted in 2013 and became a very good pain - in -the -ass cyber friend. Honestly, it really is one of my triggers ( people suddenly leaving with no input or control from me ) and I felt rumblings of that . I am sorry she is no longer here . For me , 6 years is a long time to interact with someone and now they are gone. She helped me in many many ways. I understand .
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Re: Anjae
#87: November 15, 2019, 07:14:49 AM
Barbie, I believe someone has her email address, but I don't remember who now.  It's somewhere on this thread, I think.
Maybe you could stay in touch that way.
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Re: Anjae
#88: November 15, 2019, 07:23:12 AM
All good points.. Serenity, nobody makes you open that thread, I don't.

In my 30's, when I had my MLT, I used to watch the news, read the paper and listen to the radio all the time. That's what my parents did and I guess I was sort of emulating them because I lacked my own sense of identity and I really missed that connected feeling you used to get from everyone in the same town listening to the host every morning. I used to call them the soap on a rope days.

I didn't realize though, those days were gone. We're living in a post baby jessica, always on and the attention goes to the loudest screamer world of non stop, 24 hour unrelenting media.

Anyway, after xw left, after BD, i stopped tuning in. I didn't realize how much negativity it brought into my life. I also realized a large part of our interactions were rushing home to complain about something awful we saw on the news. I realized too, people bond over complaining. Works sucks, traffic sucks, the weather sucks..

It's just a bad habit we are absolutely 100% in control of. When people ask how you're doing, why not say something good? Why not find blogs and news outlets online that only post positive stuff? You know what really makes me happy? Medical and science news. Advances are being made in so many fields that you don't even hear about, because negative stuff sells. Cancer research, environmental research, psychology, therapy.. there's a whole positive world that's going on that simply doesn't sell like negative news.

You have to be your own adult. it's hard to do, but to modify an old saying, if you don't have anything nice to hear, turn it off.

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Re: Anjae
#89: November 15, 2019, 07:43:11 AM
Gman,

I stopped watching the news a few years ago because it was all negative stuff.  Fires, shootings, etc..
Now I go on line and choose what stories I want to read.

I would do it all over again.

These past two years I stopped watching the political shows.  Too upsetting. Now I read what I want to read.
It was very calming because I am a political junky who just finally said..no, no more.

I do however, keep up with the issues.  :)
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Re: Anjae
#90: November 15, 2019, 10:06:42 AM
I stopped watching the news six years ago. There's usually nothing good or positive on there. I haven't missed it one bit.
I really in general, don't watch TV at all.

I agree T read the news online stories you want to know more about.
And if we do watch TV it's more of recorded light comedies. No commercials which is a plus.

I do listen to music on the radio or I have a calming CD I enjoy.  We have YouTube on the TV so sometimes we listen to soothing ambient music at nighttime.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: Anjae
#91: November 15, 2019, 10:11:12 AM
I see a danger in not watching the news for I believe it is important that we have some sense of what is going on in the world. Since US news focuses mostly on US events (and it seems 99% on election issues) I watch BBC news and also take a look at the Canadian news. I also find shows like The View which has a variety of opinions helpful to attempting to understand what some of the issues are that we are facing.

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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Anjae
#92: November 15, 2019, 10:21:32 AM
My problem with watching to news as it tends to be fear based and spun so who really knows what the truth is?
BBC is a better source of information than the US seems to be.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: Anjae
#93: November 15, 2019, 10:40:32 AM
In my case, I keep up on what's important in the world, but it's through reading, not TV news.

Online, newspapers, some talk radio channels, those kind of avenues.

I do also watch CSpan and watch out congress in action.  I wish everybody would.  Not so much the political channels.

But I agree with you xyzcf, it's very important to keep up with world issues because what is going on can very much effect all of us.
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Re: Anjae
#94: November 17, 2019, 05:43:39 PM
Anjae is brilliant, talented and a great resource to this community. People that come here do deserve a soft landing, at first. Then, after a while, you need to pull up your big-boy/girl panties and start living again. Anjae made you think. If the poster is offended, then she hit a nerve and perhaps the poster needs to do some self reflection. Nobody needs to be Nell, tied to the railroad tracks, waiting for Dudley Doright to ride in and save them.

When I first started here, in 2011, I devoured the articles. I tried to get an understanding of what I was dealing with. People like Anjae, Stayed, Limitless made me stop sitting on the floor in a puddle with some well timed 2x4's. I didn't want to stay the victim of my circumstances. They showed me the way out.

I also had my issues with some posters who are no longer on here, not banned, just gone. It was their opinions and I didn't have to listen to them.


 
Ya know I remember when I started here in 2010- 2011.
There was something that was added to some posters threads. It went something like this.

Take whatever you feel might be helpful in whatever comment/ advise/ insight/ observation someone else posted on your (or someone else's) thread and IGNORE the rest.

It's like any other social media, you don't like the meme or the subject matter of a thread? Keep scrolling.

 How did it happen that everyone gets so offended by just about anything?

Someone posts a lot about a subject matter you find offensive?

Don't read their thread.

If you are frustrated by your efforts to try to enlighten someone to do some self reflection and they get offended?

Stop posting on their thread.

I totally agree. I also stopped posting on threads that frustrated me. I didn't complain about them. Only once did I complain and that poster is still on here. I just don't read it or comment on it. When will people take ownership of their own issues? Nobody on here has a definitive answer to MLC. NO ONE. Our site is better with a diversity of opinions.

It is sooooo high school to only want the "cool kids" to converse on here, i.e., the ones who agree with the poster's stance. How do you grow without being challenged? And again:

Quote
Take whatever you feel might be helpful in whatever comment/ advise/ insight/ observation someone else posted on your (or someone else's) thread and IGNORE the rest.
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Re: Anjae
#95: November 17, 2019, 05:55:46 PM
From what I understand and recall from RCR's explanation,,banning Anjae had nothing to do with her posts or her blunt and sometimes harsh 2x4's.   It because of her attempts to circumvent the rules (more than once if I understand correctly).

Going to be honest I did find her quite abrasive and it was tough to shrug that off sometimes to get to the heart of her message.   I didn't always manage to do that either,, sorry.  Despite that I also miss Anjae.  She offered a lot of valuable advice.   But this is all beside the point.   We can argue all day long that everyone should have the right to post what they like and if we don't like it we don't have to read anymore.   If that was the reason she was banned,, then good argument but if you want her reinstated you will have to argue that based on the reason she was banned:  circumventing the rules more than once, then flaunting it in RCR's face.

 

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Re: Anjae
#96: November 18, 2019, 04:43:20 AM
Quote
It because of her attempts to circumvent the rules (more than once if I understand correctly).

That's what RCR has reiterated. I'm sure it probably hurt her (RCR) to do it, because she's tried to work with her several times over.

Quote
In my case, I keep up on what's important in the world, but it's through reading, not TV news.

Thunder, i agree! I read a lot, almost non stop. The thing I like about reading is I can skim, get the main idea, look for what I think the facts are and move on. I've always enjoyed reading, but I feel like when it comes to news, I have more control over the messages and amount that gets let in, so to speak.

Quote
I totally agree. I also stopped posting on threads that frustrated me. I didn't complain about them. Only once did I complain and that poster is still on here. I just don't read it or comment on it. When will people take ownership of their own issues? Nobody on here has a definitive answer to MLC. NO ONE. Our site is better with a diversity of opinions.

It is sooooo high school to only want the "cool kids" to converse on here, i.e., the ones who agree with the poster's stance. How do you grow without being challenged?

I believe the internet has a severely polarizing affect on opinion. People simply are friends with people that support their opinions and block out anything else. We've lost a search for the objective truth that is supported by facts and believe that opinions and feelings are more valid. To an extent they are. We all know basic right and wrong, but the truth has been replaced by trying to get people to agree with us and it's all deteriorated to being a contest of who can be the bigger victim.

I agree completely agree.. free debate encourages growth. I think we just had a thread on debate vs arguing and I think it's completely apt. I for one, have no problem being wrong, if the facts show me that I am. I'm not going to change my stance though if I get picked on and yelled at.

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Re: Anjae
#97: November 18, 2019, 05:29:55 AM
Quote
It because of her attempts to circumvent the rules (more than once if I understand correctly).

That's what RCR has reiterated. I'm sure it probably hurt her (RCR) to do it, because she's tried to work with her several times over.

YES - sorry but she was warned numerous times and despite that still felt she was above the rules.

Anjae worked very hard as a moderator, so I know that RCR did not take this lightly.

Also RCR was banned from DB so she did really not believe we should ever ban anyone because of this.

That actually created other problems that we had to deal with.
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Re: Anjae
#98: November 18, 2019, 05:46:01 AM
I'm a moderator on several other forums and I can tell you banning someone is an issue that is never, ever, taken lightly.

As we've been talking about, if you aren't happy with someone or a topic, simply look away. I don't think in doing so, you realize the graciousness you're extending to someone else. I've been on forums in one kind or another since the late 80's. That's back on dial up services and usenet threads.

These are the only true safe places I've seen online in the sense that everyone is welcome and the people that run them, work tirelessly to keep the peace. We understand that for many people, these places may the be only ones that they feel they can talk about certain issues, it may be the only social interaction they have (they may be shut ins for one reason or another).

Years ago, I used to be part of the sci fi convention scene and I was in a real life few groups who also had virtual counterparts. People believed very much in doing charity work and would go to great lengths to make sure that all members accommodated, if they needed it. Despite the topic, forums like this are an extension of the kindness that existed in those early days.

The people that inhabit (and run) these places believe in a good that's bigger than themselves. Part of that is extending patience and kindness to people we may not agree with. Look what's going on, in the "surface" world. People unfriend and block people they've known for years because they don't agree with them. They let friendships and family ties wither away because of a difference of opinion. The opposite is true here. it takes much, much agonizing to "push the button" on someone.

You'll never see the sort of patience and kindness you do on forums like this, elsewhere, so please don't be quick to judge and point fingers. instead, consider your part in it and how much you contribute by just letting things be, if they aren't your cup of tea.

There are forums that are crazy coo coo too out there, for the record. So thank God we have alternatives.
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Re: Anjae
#99: November 18, 2019, 08:38:49 AM
Anjae is brilliant, talented and a great resource to this community. People that come here do deserve a soft landing, at first. Then, after a while, you need to pull up your big-boy/girl panties and start living again. Anjae made you think. If the poster is offended, then she hit a nerve and perhaps the poster needs to do some self reflection. Nobody needs to be Nell, tied to the railroad tracks, waiting for Dudley Doright to ride in and save them.

When I first started here, in 2011, I devoured the articles. I tried to get an understanding of what I was dealing with. People like Anjae, Stayed, Limitless made me stop sitting on the floor in a puddle with some well timed 2x4's. I didn't want to stay the victim of my circumstances. They showed me the way out.

I also had my issues with some posters who are no longer on here, not banned, just gone. It was their opinions and I didn't have to listen to them.


 
Ya know I remember when I started here in 2010- 2011.
There was something that was added to some posters threads. It went something like this.

Take whatever you feel might be helpful in whatever comment/ advise/ insight/ observation someone else posted on your (or someone else's) thread and IGNORE the rest.

It's like any other social media, you don't like the meme or the subject matter of a thread? Keep scrolling.

 How did it happen that everyone gets so offended by just about anything?

Someone posts a lot about a subject matter you find offensive?

Don't read their thread.

If you are frustrated by your efforts to try to enlighten someone to do some self reflection and they get offended?

Stop posting on their thread.

I totally agree. I also stopped posting on threads that frustrated me. I didn't complain about them. Only once did I complain and that poster is still on here. I just don't read it or comment on it. When will people take ownership of their own issues? Nobody on here has a definitive answer to MLC. NO ONE. Our site is better with a diversity of opinions.

It is sooooo high school to only want the "cool kids" to converse on here, i.e., the ones who agree with the poster's stance. How do you grow without being challenged? And again:

Quote
Take whatever you feel might be helpful in whatever comment/ advise/ insight/ observation someone else posted on your (or someone else's) thread and IGNORE the rest.


Totally agree with you Learning. This was my experience as well. Once I got over the shock of being "offended" by a 2x4 there were some excellent grains of truth that made me take a hard look at things.........invaluable towards growth.
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Re: Anjae
#100: February 12, 2020, 04:58:13 PM
Just want to say that I miss Anjae. I enjoyed her strong posts and her particular personality. I know that if I were looking for some company right now, she would have been here.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D26, D23, S16
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Re: Anjae
#101: February 12, 2020, 05:51:15 PM
I feel the same Milly . As much as she could "rub me the wrong way " at times , there was usually some truth in her words .
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Anjae
#102: February 13, 2020, 03:00:42 PM
Let’s start a petition to have her back...

I must say there are people on this site I would much rather be banned than Anjae!!!

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Re: Anjae
#103: February 13, 2020, 04:52:40 PM
Here is something to consider -- maybe Anjae doesn't want to come back to a place that banned her.
I know I wouldn't.
And then what?  Come back to be moderated again when she rubs some one the wrong way?
Think about it - how would you feel?
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Re: Anjae
#104: February 13, 2020, 06:33:41 PM
I'd hope Anjae is busy enjoying her time away from HS as much I do.  There is life after HS after all. 

Sometimes getting away is the best the best thing for growth.  It makes one take a fresh look at theories and life.  It allows time to think and evaluate what's important.  It also allows one to live in the real world and reevaluate beliefs and detox.  To come to realize the beloved place of our memory is just that, a memory, having changed into a place one no longer recognizes.

Anjae wrote 16546 posts.  She was fiercely loyal to RCR, HS, a true believer who invested years of her time here trying to help RCR, HS, and her fellow posters.  She spent so much time devoted to the site that it was only after she quit serving as a Mod that she began taking huge steps forward in building a new chapter in her life. 

I hope she is too busy enjoying life to even think about HS, a place that used her skills and time and then stabbed her and tossed her away, banning her.  I hope she would not even consider returning to this place.  It wasn't her that changed, it was HS and not for the better, in my opinion.

I hope she has come to realize that just as MLC is a blessing in disguise, the banning was also a blessing that set her free to begin a new chapter of her life without feeling guilty about not being here trying to help the same people that treated her so shabbily. 

Lp 

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« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 06:35:49 PM by lawprofessor »
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

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Re: Anjae
#105: February 14, 2020, 03:50:33 PM
LP, do I understand from your post that you know that Anjae made progress after she was banned?

In any case, it would be nice to hear it from her. I do agree: I hope she is too busy enjoying life to even think about HS, a place that used her skills and time and then stabbed her and tossed her away, banning her.  I hope she would not even consider returning to this place.  It wasn't her that changed, it was HS and not for the better, in my opinion.

I would start a petition to have her back but not if she doesn't want to, of course. Just saying that I miss her posts. Looks like I lot of us do. And as Serenity said, several other posters on HS have said stuff that is really horrible and they're still here. I understand that Anjae was maybe a little cheeky with the rules, but what about the help she offered so many on here? Aren't we a site to help LBSs?
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D26, D23, S16
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Re: Anjae
#106: February 15, 2020, 09:46:07 PM
Yes Millie, I know Anjae has made progress since her banning here.  I spoke with her again today.

At about the same time she was banned, she found out Mr. J had gotten married.  She absorbed the news and moved on, no longer even considering working on projects with him.

Since banned, she has been a very busy woman enjoying life.  So much so that she rarely thinks of MLC, Mr J, or HS.  Once free she has found her focus to be more squarely on herself and enjoying life, that the MLC years have faded, and that she has no time in her life currently for HS, but she said, never say never and thanks you much for your concern and interest.  . 

I have found it true, as well, that the importance of MLC and the focus on MLC dies when old timers walk away from HS.  Anjae read some on HS a few weeks ago and said she no longer recognizes HS as the place that she was involved with, that helped her through her early years.  I have found the same to be true.  Weeks and months slip by without my ex crossing my thoughts or even the topic of MLC crossing my thoughts.  It's just a finished chapter unless I'm reminded of HS.

I've know Anjae for years.  To me, she seems calmer, more at peace, lighter in mood/spirit of late than in all the years here.  It's a good thing to let somethings die and move forward when things have outlived their usefulness. 
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if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

M
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Re: Anjae
#107: February 16, 2020, 02:57:46 AM
LP, thank you very much for this update on Anjae. I am pleased to hear she's doing ok.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D26, D23, S16
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

 

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