[FrenchHusband]

Hi Hopeful,

I am sorry for your situation and the descent into hell you are facing. You seem to handle the situation pretty well, good for you and the children who need you. I am in a similar situation : at home wife and 1 year post BD, 3 children.

One good thing - This has pushed me (and my oldest son) into a deeper and richer faith in Chirst than I could have ever imagined. And that will not change moving forward. Abandoned and rejected by one love, and accepted by another. Unfortunately, she's not at all on the same page as me in regards to that.

Same for me : I got a big wound in my heart at BD, and the Holy Spirit has found his way in my heart through this wound.

There’s also the irony of if there is even a small chance of repair later, the LBS has to have not taken enough damage to not care anymore and or not be willing to try to work on a relationship. And trust me if you read many stories you will see that that point will almost always come if you continue to be in the line of fire.

Just something to consider.

what you write is clearly to consider, I fully agree. The amount of damage is a key point to take in account for the LBS, yes. That is why it is so important to detach as soon as we can IMO. Then Standing, at a point, is not for the marriage anymore, it is more for the LBS and the children. Standing allows to grow and live even in front of MLC. We learn that we can not "fix" or "save" the marriage. Healing and Growing may eventually facilitate the future rebuilding of the marriage (pave the way), but the first purpose is clearly for the LBS.

Have Faith ! You are doing well

[xyzcf]

One good thing - This has pushed me (and my oldest son) into a deeper and richer faith in Christ than I could have ever imagined. And that will not change moving forward. Abandoned and rejected by one love, and accepted by another.

My faith also has grown and "matured", for I have always had faith, but my understanding and living that faith is much much deeper now.

After BD, living in a foreign country, I ran to a church and asked to see a priest. There was a difference in language, yet he understood. The priest opened a bible and asked me to read Luke 15:11-32...the story of the Prodigal Son. It reasonated deeply with me. The father did not try and prevent his son from leaving, did not chase him or beg him to come back and welcomed him with a banquet and open arms when he returned.

God is with me, and when we married, there were three people at the alter...God and I are still there. Given free choice, my husband is not and may never be but we are still there to welcome him with open arms.

We talk about the pain and the damage to the LBSer and how we must protect ourselves. The pain is excruciating and yet we heal, we become whole once more. I have been struck by what I consider to be the most important thing Christ told us "Love one another as I have loved you" including those who hurt you and your enemies.

I could not save "our marriage" and his crisis is not about me or our marriage....but I felt strongly that there was something I could do to protect our family...we are and always will be a family...his divorce doesn't change that. He is a part of our lives, he is a part of my life. It is not as I would like, but the value of being comfortable and at peace around him is invaluable. Letting go of my plans and leaving him in God's hands.

There is a site that is still very helpful to me, Rejoice Ministries which has a daily devotional for destroyed marriages. On Saturday, there is a men's devotional, although I find it equally as helpful as a woman. Higlhy recommend it for the encouragement and understanding from a biblical point of view.

She says she's been unhappy in our marriage for a long time and doesn't care anymore.  Strange, she never showed any signs of being unhappy until the summer of 2022. In fact, she would always shake her head at people we knew that were going through midlife crisis and say "I'll never do that because I've lived my life the way Ive wanted to and I'm happy".  Hmmm....

So very common in this crisis....we never dreamed it would be possibly for our marriages to end, for them to have affairs...none of this computes with our knowing what we knew about our lives together. We are shattered by this. I am glad that you are in therapy. I found therapy important to help put the shattered pieces of my life back together. We were together 35 years and overnight he was done with me...never having said a word of displeasure in 35 years.

[Hopeful5]

Thanks for all the support everyone. I genuinely appreciate it and it all really, really helps.

Its interesting reading my first post as it was over a year ago. So much has happened since then.

At that time, my wife had stopped wanting to have sex, but this escalated to her not sleeping in our bed. She's slept with our 8year old daughter in her twin bed for over 9 months now. It's very strange.  What's really strange is that a big part of her childhood trauma happened when she was 8. That's when her parents divorced.  I can't help but think (along with my therapist) that our daughter being 8 years old is partially triggering a lot of this apparent PTSD from childhood.

Last April all of our communication around her myriad of issues (about how horrible I am) stopped. The conversations were becoming escalated and we were boiling over way too much.  She started saying things about how our marriage isn't secure and that I needed to fix it.  This really struck a cord of insecurity in me that just wasn't good and triggered all of my anxiety. That's when I reached out for therapy.

I found a great therapist, who has over 45 years experience and was the head of the Phd Psychology program at our local college.  I reached out to him with total humility, taking the blame for all the problems and asking him to help me fix myself so our marriage can heal.  He sniffed things out pretty quick and could tell almost immediately that I was not the source of the problems with my wife. He was amazed that there was no evidence at all of an affair since she was showing all the signs of being completely done with our marriage as someone would who was having an affair.   I told him that we're around each other 24/7 as we have a work from home business, so if she's having an affair, it must be a quickie with the gas station attendant, LOL.  I'm pretty certain that she hasn't had an affair.

She won't get therapy, or couples therapy. Her answer is "Why would I go get therapy for YOUR problems?" SMH...

A little bit of background.  My wife grew up poor, they lived in a shack in the woods and had an outhouse for a bathroom. She slept in the bathtub as she had no bed.  Her real dad was a drug addict and her mom left with her and her brother when she was 8. She never saw her dad again.  Her stepdad is an okay guy, but they were still poor all growing up. They never had heat in their house. Her parents gave her no rules whatsoever and they moved to another state when she was 16, leaving her behind to live with her boyfriend who was 10 years older than her. There's a LOT of issues there that got stuffed away.

We married when she was 19. I grew up in a normal, stable Christian home with 2 parents that loved me. I was religious and she gravitated to all of the normal aspects of me and my life.  We've had a good marriage for 23 years until this happened. I'm a normal guy, who gets upset (in a normal way) at normal life problems. I'm wired a bit anxious, but nothing beyond normal.  I've loved and faithfully taken care of my wife and family.  But, apparently, according to my wife, I haven't. I'm supposedly a continuation of all the bad patterns in her life and I don't make her feel safe.  Her complaints about me are in my opinion, really pretty minimal, nothing we can work through, but she's blown them up so big and twisted everything into something totally other than what it really was.

Me and my kids have told her that she needs to be able to forgive. She said "I've forgiven dad... For myself".  And also has told them (and me) "If someone murders your child, you can forgive them, but you don't need to be around them".  The logic here is totally broken.  No one was murdered, and I'm her husband... It's all so retarded...

We've had a couple of blowups in front of our kids which is never healthy. This happens because she's shut down all communication, so her crappy behavior towards me will trigger an argument. During one of the blowups she said in front of the whole family "If you were physically removed from my life, all of my problems would go away." Unbelievable, and just a little bit creepy...  My therapist was concerned about this comment, along with the very lucid dream that she had about me being dead (which happened at the start of all this).

She talks to the kids (and her parents) behind my back about me.  Complaining about how I don't make her feel safe, I don't really care about her, and how I don't care about our property.  I do, but for the last 1.5 years I haven't been as on the ball as I've been emotionally drained by all of this. Our business has also suffered a LOT since then due to all of this, which we both own, but of course its ALL my fault.  I told her that this is causing a lot of unnecessary wear and tare on all of us and she's partly responsible for it's affects.  She's told the kids that I'm a coward, and that that I'm a "covert narcissist", LOL.  My therapist confirmed that I'm not, with a chuckle. Any slight, tiny thing that I do that she doesn't like she's now dumping on the kids behind my back.

She tells the kids that I've been an abusive dad because I'll occasionally raise my voice when I get really upset. I can raise my voice, but for her, any escalation of emotion in my voice is "yelling".  Also, I believe in spanking our kids when necessary, but she's never liked it. So of course NOW I'm an abusive father.  As my oldest son pointed out, she never had a father, so any masculine form of correction she has a HUGE problem with.

The strangest thing is her complete lack of empathy for what she's doing and her complete stubbornness and inability to see herself AT ALL or take any responsibility for anything.  It's truly amazing.   

Shockingly, she told me that living with me has been far more traumatic than anything she went through as a child. My therapist was very concerned about this comment as she doesn't seem to be connected to reality.

She was fully immersed in the whole Qanon conspiracy. That sort of good guy / bad guy, conspiratorial thinking has seemed to permeate everything. Of course I'm a bad guy and she has this enlightened intuition now.  It's all a bunch of BS.  This also really concerned my therapist. Again, not connected to reality.

I was really not doing well after my last post, over a year ago...  But I've discovered a very rich and deep place of prayer that has been enormously healing.  I'm staying there and will continue.  My kids and I are going to church together as we hadn't been involved in church life in 5 years or so. My wife wants nothing to do with religion. Religion is now "low minded" now that she's become so enlightened. Her "self love" seems to be more self destruction than anything, and isn't producing the best of fruit.

[FrenchHusband]

A little bit of background.  My wife grew up poor, they lived in a shack in the woods and had an outhouse for a bathroom. She slept in the bathtub as she had no bed.  Her real dad was a drug addict and her mom left with her and her brother when she was 8. She never saw her dad again.  Her stepdad is an okay guy, but they were still poor all growing up. They never had heat in their house. Her parents gave her no rules whatsoever and they moved to another state when she was 16, leaving her behind to live with her boyfriend who was 10 years older than her. There's a LOT of issues there that got stuffed away.

Abandonment issue, a recurrent theme in MLC from what I see. My W also lost her father at 12 and was abandoned by her mother, then spent 1 year in an orphanage before being adopted by a great guy. Good for you that you know this background. This is HER issues that SHE has to deal with currently, nothing to do with your marriage and you. Knowing that helps us to detach IMO and to take a step back that allows us to heal... with time

[KayDee]

You seem to have a great therapist to help you make sense of the situation and your related feelings (what Treasur would say 'what is on your side of the street and what is not). Have you spoken to him about transference? It struck me that much of what your W says to you seems more like what she would say to an abandoning/neglectful parent. It stood out to me. Doesn't change the situation of course, but may help with some of your responses.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Oh dear, hopeful5....

That's what I call "bad guy" symptom (aptly my last  storyline runs with title "I'm the bad guy" ) . It can be really hard on you when you are constantly under fire and blame.

You know you best, and your therapist has professionally observed you for good time. Were you perfect - of course not. But that is what human life and relationships are, and will be. Not a ground for divorce or anything similar. Basically you can consider most of the bad guy talk as  mirroring of her inner demons.

As for her desire to have life without you...That seems to be nature of beast. Some MLCrs run away the first day, some struggle for 6-18 months  in-house, others live a double life with different affairs... Can you tell your opinion on what is holding her back from leaving right now? Clearly she is trying to alienate the kids (If possible, document these for possible custody handling)....if she left with the kids, would she have a place and money and support network in place?  And what about you - what is your plan if she does so? Or would you be the one leaving (acknowledge that staying in the house may give you advantage during custody talks).

Nobody cannot foresee the future, but how have you prepared for possible separation/divorce? Do you have solid plans (and backup plans), or are you still trying to navigate by gut flow?  Would you do split parenting or something else, where would you live (especially if she desires to move cross-state or similar), how would you organize work, income and support, what about schools and friends of kids. These are easy as long as you live and/or work together, but when/if you separate it becomes a minefield. Since she desires you out, you can now choose whether you want to be the sitting duck and await for first blow, or you can start to build a bat$h!te proof shield for your protection (without telling her any details of it). If you have not seen a lawyer, this might be a good time to start having initial talks.

I do share your therapists concerns of her behaviour... She sounds a lot like my xW, and for me (and I guess for my xW too) the final boundary was when she physically attacked me in front of kids. The  MLCrs can do bat$h!te crazy things when running high on emotions, so make sure you are and feel protected at all times.

Alvin

[Reinventing]

She was fully immersed in the whole Qanon conspiracy. That sort of good guy / bad guy,

There was a poster on here, can't remember his name, who said his W got in to vitriole politics and when he mentioned to her that it was politics she used to laugh at, she looked at him with delight and said, "I know!" To which he responded (in his head), "okaaaay, step back slowly, don't make eye contact......."

Agree with ATM about looking at what things may be like if there is a separation so you can be prepared if that happens. It may not happen, but be prepared.

[Hopeful5]

Oh dear, hopeful5....

Can you tell your opinion on what is holding her back from leaving right now? Clearly she is trying to alienate the kids (If possible, document these for possible custody handling)....if she left with the kids, would she have a place and money and support network in place?  And what about you - what is your plan if she does so? Or would you be the one leaving (acknowledge that staying in the house may give you advantage during custody talks).

Nobody cannot foresee the future, but how have you prepared for possible separation/divorce? Do you have solid plans (and backup plans), or are you still trying to navigate by gut flow?  Would you do split parenting or something else, where would you live (especially if she desires to move cross-state or similar), how would you organize work, income and support, what about schools and friends of kids. These are easy as long as you live and/or work together, but when/if you separate it becomes a minefield. Since she desires you out, you can now choose whether you want to be the sitting duck and await for first blow, or you can start to build a bat$h!te proof shield for your protection (without telling her any details of it). If you have not seen a lawyer, this might be a good time to start having initial talks.

Alvin, this is where things get tricky.  I'm still in the phase of coming to terms with all of this. I really just don't want any of it to be happening, but I'm beginning to accept that it is... My wife and I have built every part of our life on being a team. Since we've met we've spent 24/7 with each other, work together, church together, same group of friends etc. We've started and ran businesses together for the last 24 years. She has the good Ideas, and I go execute them. So, moving forward financially is a challenging thing to consider. When you own/run your own business you wear a million hats and specialize in nothing, so considering the job market is daunting.  I could start another business, become a monk, LOL, who knows...

But, if/when there is a divorce, I'd assume we'd sell all of our assets and split everything evenly. Between selling our business and our property that would be several hundred thousand dollars each, which we could each use to start over with.  Selling our 20 acre property and the house that I BUILT WITH MY OWN HANDS will be very tough on the kids. It's a shame really. We've accomplished and built so much together and now she's burning it all to the ground...

Regarding divorce, I haven't mentally processed past what I explained above. I'm really not sure how custody works, or if since we've both owned our business together if she'd be obligated to receive spousal support. Her parents live in another state, and she would never want to live there due to the harsh climate. I honestly don't think she's been thinking about anything practical. She's completely stuck in her emotions. I really don't want to start paying out money to a divorce attorney as we're in a very tight financial spot. I'd much rather use divorce mediation if it comes to that.

These are all the things that are really tough to think through, but I know that need to anyways and start to prepare myself. 

[Hopeful5]

Can you tell your opinion on what is holding her back from leaving right now? Clearly she is trying to alienate the kids (If possible, document these for possible custody handling)....if she left with the kids, would she have a place and money and support network in place? 

What's holding her back from divorce is that she doesn't want the kids to hate her. Her entire identity is wrapped up in being a mom and these kids. So, in my opinion, her act of demonizing me and dumping her issues onto the kids is a way to get sympathy from them so if/when she asks for a divorce then they won't hate her.  I think she was expecting me to just lose it and go crazy and be the one that self destructs and show the kids that "I'm not a stable, safe person". But that's not happening. The opposite has actually. She mopes around the house and is up and down emotionally and all the kids pander to her "I'm sorry mom.... Thank you mom.... I'm sorry mom... Thank you mom..."  For everything.

She has no support network, no friends. Her parents are it.   I have no idea what her plan is if she's considering a divorce.

[Hopeful5]

That is why it is so important to detach as soon as we can IMO. Then Standing, at a point, is not for the marriage anymore, it is more for the LBS and the children. Standing allows to grow and live even in front of MLC. We learn that we can not "fix" or "save" the marriage. Healing and Growing may eventually facilitate the future rebuilding of the marriage (pave the way), but the first purpose is clearly for the LBS.

I agree with this. I'm doing my best to detach. I'm actually reading a lot by the Desert Fathers / Christian Monastics about detachment from everything. Since I'm now celibate, I figured I might as well go into monk mode.  2-3 hours of prayer / reading each day has helped me begin to detach in a very deep way and find a new way of living. It's been incredibly liberating.