[Anoi]

Hello all, so 2 months ago, my life turned into living hell.
I am 37 he is 44 and he loves me, but not in love with me, you know the story right?
We are married for 6 years now and 7 together, i am his first wife. Yeah, he got married very late, he is very shy, full of self hatred and not much interested to go somewhere too far from his computer.
I am active, positive person, that just enjoys the sunshine and life...
But it worked, for 7 years i'v been happy with him, we went through a lot together, i moved to another country for him, learned completely foreign language  , we survived the deaths of both his and my parents, changed 3 or 4 different apartments, finally bought a house of our dreams and a 1.5 year later everything fell appart...
I noticed chages in him in the start of this autumn, he became more distant, he never was very communicative, but this was different, then everything started to irritate him, we had a fight or 2, and then i asked what's up?
So when he fell in love with me, i was overweighted, all of our marriage i was overweighted and ofc i need to loose weight. And put stuff in the right place, and close toilet door after i used toilet.
But no, he doesn't think that divorce is a good idea.
Here  i need to mention that i have anxiety disorder, i was in a good shape on the minimal dose of antidepressants... this conversation sent me through the roof, but i put a dose  a little higher, convince myself it's all good, i will try better and started to exercise and diet and be my best...
Until 3 weeks later, when he came drunk at 3am and told me, that it's my insecurity that made me call every hour and worry where he was...
I just got better i thought to myself. And we had The conversation, so
loves me, but not in love, we are different ppl, are we really happy? He is not. He never had a real passion in his life and he wants The real passion.
Since that moment i am on the highest dose of antidepressants + xanax. One day i had very dark time when i proposed to separate for 5 months and he gladly agreed...
For me separate means to move to a different country where my only friend lives, with foreign language and all that... we can't afford to just rent an appartement here and i have no one but my Husband here.
And then i found emotion affair, photos (not naked) of her among his porn collection. Folder was called The Woman...hah. It's his colleague and boss for 5 years now, but now i guess she is The Woman. With whome he discusses our marriage (told me himself) She is married herself with a kid, but who does it stop? So he secretly visited her, invited her to our home when i was away (but i think she refused), shares all our problems with her and gifts her child nice Christmas present... i don't think it's anything physical for now, he is to shy, to tell her.
So he is now always at work, runs as soon as she needs help, his mood obviously depends on how they spent the day.
During holidays he was really nice to me, we had a good time together, like old times, even agreed to postpone the separation ( it supposed to happened this weekend). He started sleeping well, stopped drinking...
But back to work and all this good work is going to hell before my eyes, he is distant and unhappy again, he is bored with me, he started having trouble falling asleep right away.
My anxiety and depression are up and running around and all is flying to hell.
I didn't tell him i know about her. I try to be supportive and we stopped discussing our marriage problems cause it's only hurts. He still answers that he doesn't want a divorce at the same time he stopped wearing his ring.
I don't know how much longer i can take it, i was strong, but with my disease it's not possible to live years in this environment... should i go? Leave him be and save myself? Or should i stay and try to save our marriage and him from going to the bottom, where he is heading right now ? ( he stopped paying bills, taking care of anything etc.)
Please help... somebody please help.

And ofc as he is super shy he refuses to go counseling or therapy.

[Treasur]

I am very sorry that you find yourself here, but this is a pretty safe place to be bc we get it.

As has already happened, time and events will tend to unfold in a way that shows you what you are dealing with and what your options might be.

Right now though, I am going to put your marriage to one side and take a bit of a survival triage approach focused more on you. Reading your post, three things jumped out at me.

The first is anxiety. I don’t know the root cause of your anxiety or what treatment you have had or are having. But I think your instinct is right…..managing the effects of your own anxiety needs to be an absolute priority. More of a priority than you have ever made it before probably. Why? Bc you will need as much of your best self as you can to navigate this storm. I don’t say that lightly. I developed PTSD post BD and I understand how disabling it can really be….and how big the small steps feel that you take to recover and rebuild. But, regardless of what happens with your h, that work needs to start now. What are you currently doing other than meds? What have you found in the past works for you? What help do you think you need for anxiety to be in the back seat of your life?

The second is the practical stuff of money and security that you can control. How able are you currently to financially support yourself if you needed to? What do you see as the priority here bc it is reasonable that insecurity about those basic things adds to your anxiety, right? Are you working? And have you taken legal advice on your options if the current situation changes?

And finally the third thing that strikes me is that you sound a bit isolated? If I understand you right, you are living in another country? Do you have family there or elsewhere? Your own friends or support system? I ask bc imho it takes a village to navigate the big storms of life and we humans are wired for connection. Both big friendships and little daily interactions are how we walk in the world as who we are….and if our closest relationship is no longer available, we need that even more. What are you currently doing to find that in other parts of your life?

I am so very sorry for your distress. We can hear it and we are sending you a virtual hug through the ether. I wish we could do it in person.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi iona,

So sorry for you ending on this situation. Do acknowledge this is save space to share deepest fears and wounds, and heal and grow.

Having read your text, I would say your number one priority is going into personal counseling. Both for anxiety and relationship. If the plane crashes down, you need to put oxygen mask for yourself first before you can even try to save others. Marriage counselling hardly ever works unless both partners are genuinely willing and ready, and from cheap seats it looks like you both need a lot of work and time. Have you contacted public healthcare (or similar) for help?

Regardless of what happens for your marriage, life will turn out well. Nobody wishes to go through this kind of "hard school of life", but you will not go to hell and back without learning skills that make the future you the best version of you. But right here and right now you should focus on the basics first: your health, your safety, and your financials. Write down a honest list of

A) what you have and where you stand - health, money, work, safety,  human connections etc

B) what are your fears - how do you cope, do you have enough money to live on your own etc

C) how do you secure your basics - Instead if trying to fix all in day, make a realistic and detailed plan. Most likely it will take several months to reach from A to B. Time will become your best friend when you learn to respond instead of reacting blindly with anxious knee-jerk.

Hope this helps you a bit.

Alvin

[KayDee]

Dear Iona, so sorry you are here, but also glad you found the forum so early as you will be among people who understand the complexities of your situation and will try to help guide you through the storm.

I think many of us here will identify with the journey you describe as your H first becomes distant, then irritable (angry) and finally seems to become a cold stranger. You are in the early stages (as am I at 18 months in - yes, this who $h!teshow takes TIME) and you will see / experience lots of emotional cycling (you and him) and things you just can't seem to make sense of, or think him capable of. The first year at least is the most turbulent, so as others have said, you need to get your oxygen mask on first and stabilize.

Both you and your H have had a lot of hardship and stress in the last few years - significant bereavement, relocation, moving house many times, job changes. It's likely that your H was triggered into MLC by one of these events and slipped downwards to the point where his 'landscape' became bleak and overwhelming and his coping style, it seems, is to run (aka escape and avoid).  Unfortunately, you are part of that landscape, intertwined with all the difficulty and trauma. And to add to that, you were probably struggling a bit yourself and he likely could not cope with your (very reasonable and ordinary) need for care. IMO, this is not uncommon. The stronger spouse gets sick, or needs emotional support, and it tips the crisis person to BD. It's completely unfair of course. You did not cause any of this, but somehow you become collateral damage. On the plus side, you appear to have much better coping skills (you did not run, you tried to support him, you reached out for help etc etc). If this is an identity / midlife crisis he does not have a clear enough sense of himself to take responsibility, so he blames his environment and goes looking for an external fix (IMO a mama figure to sooth him - my interpretation on his EA). Sadly, he now needs to separate to learn that he is responsible for his own happiness, and actions, and that a life hidden inside a screen (avoidance plus) is not a component of a healthy relationship (you mentioned pornography also - another avoidance IMO).

Lot's to unpack I suppose and I know this is hard, but a part of why he is in crisis is because he needs to emotionally mature. Hopefully, his journey will mean he comes to see what he is in danger of losing.

You ask if you should leave. The general wisdom here is that the person who want out leaves. But only you know the particulars of your situation. In my situation, having the solid ground of my own home, familiar neighbourhood and local friends was extremely important. Even now, after a 1.5 years, the prospect of leaving this harbour that is my home is really hard - but I don't have a live in MLC. So try, if possible, not to react (the urge to leave is also an emotional response to 'escape') but instead respond. Responding often means taking time. Give yourself some grace. Slow down and take pressure off yourself to 'DO' or even to make a decision. For now, if you can do the very active thing of putting in support for yourself (IC, friends, exercise etc) then you will be doing a lot.

You do not deserve this, and it is not your fault, but you are suffering the consequences of a person lashing out through crisis.

(((((hugs))))))

[Anoi]

I am very sorry that you find yourself here, but this is a pretty safe place to be bc we get it.

As has already happened, time and events will tend to unfold in a way that shows you what you are dealing with and what your options might be.

Right now though, I am going to put your marriage to one side and take a bit of a survival triage approach focused more on you. Reading your post, three things jumped out at me.

The first is anxiety. I don’t know the root cause of your anxiety or what treatment you have had or are having. But I think your instinct is right…..managing the effects of your own anxiety needs to be an absolute priority. More of a priority than you have ever made it before probably. Why? Bc you will need as much of your best self as you can to navigate this storm. I don’t say that lightly. I developed PTSD post BD and I understand how disabling it can really be….and how big the small steps feel that you take to recover and rebuild. But, regardless of what happens with your h, that work needs to start now. What are you currently doing other than meds? What have you found in the past works for you? What help do you think you need for anxiety to be in the back seat of your life?

The second is the practical stuff of money and security that you can control. How able are you currently to financially support yourself if you needed to? What do you see as the priority here bc it is reasonable that insecurity about those basic things adds to your anxiety, right? Are you working? And have you taken legal advice on your options if the current situation changes?

And finally the third thing that strikes me is that you sound a bit isolated? If I understand you right, you are living in another country? Do you have family there or elsewhere? Your own friends or support system? I ask bc imho it takes a village to navigate the big storms of life and we humans are wired for connection. Both big friendships and little daily interactions are how we walk in the world as who we are….and if our closest relationship is no longer available, we need that even more. What are you currently doing to find that in other parts of your life?

I am so very sorry for your distress. We can hear it and we are sending you a virtual hug through the ether. I wish we could do it in person.

Well i see psychiatrist and i have a good support system on the mental health front, i would say it's getting better and meds work. I do some exercises but not talking therapy, which i probably need now.
I need calm environment to be out of my anxiety, which is not possible at home right now, we don't have scandals or heavy talks, but the atmosphere itself is awful sometimes.
On the money front for now there are no issues, i talked to a lawyer and even in the worst case scenario i will be fine, though when i discussed it with my husband he proposed good price for my head...sorry, bad sence of humor.  But i will have to move to another country, this one is too expensive, even if i will find a job.
Now i am concentrated on getring my health in a better shape, all this stress caused a couple of fixable problems, that i am actively working on.
I am very introverted person, been like that almost all my life, so my support system is terribly small but powerful. I didn't feel lonely all those years, but now i do...

[Anoi]

Dear Iona, so sorry you are here, but also glad you found the forum so early as you will be among people who understand the complexities of your situation and will try to help guide you through the storm.

I think many of us here will identify with the journey you describe as your H first becomes distant, then irritable (angry) and finally seems to become a cold stranger. You are in the early stages (as am I at 18 months in - yes, this who $h!teshow takes TIME) and you will see / experience lots of emotional cycling (you and him) and things you just can't seem to make sense of, or think him capable of. The first year at least is the most turbulent, so as others have said, you need to get your oxygen mask on first and stabilize.

Both you and your H have had a lot of hardship and stress in the last few years - significant bereavement, relocation, moving house many times, job changes. It's likely that your H was triggered into MLC by one of these events and slipped downwards to the point where his 'landscape' became bleak and overwhelming and his coping style, it seems, is to run (aka escape and avoid).  Unfortunately, you are part of that landscape, intertwined with all the difficulty and trauma. And to add to that, you were probably struggling a bit yourself and he likely could not cope with your (very reasonable and ordinary) need for care. IMO, this is not uncommon. The stronger spouse gets sick, or needs emotional support, and it tips the crisis person to BD. It's completely unfair of course. You did not cause any of this, but somehow you become collateral damage. On the plus side, you appear to have much better coping skills (you did not run, you tried to support him, you reached out for help etc etc). If this is an identity / midlife crisis he does not have a clear enough sense of himself to take responsibility, so he blames his environment and goes looking for an external fix (IMO a mama figure to sooth him - my interpretation on his EA). Sadly, he now needs to separate to learn that he is responsible for his own happiness, and actions, and that a life hidden inside a screen (avoidance plus) is not a component of a healthy relationship (you mentioned pornography also - another avoidance IMO).

Lot's to unpack I suppose and I know this is hard, but a part of why he is in crisis is because he needs to emotionally mature. Hopefully, his journey will mean he comes to see what he is in danger of losing.

You ask if you should leave. The general wisdom here is that the person who want out leaves. But only you know the particulars of your situation. In my situation, having the solid ground of my own home, familiar neighbourhood and local friends was extremely important. Even now, after a 1.5 years, the prospect of leaving this harbour that is my home is really hard - but I don't have a live in MLC. So try, if possible, not to react (the urge to leave is also an emotional response to 'escape') but instead respond. Responding often means taking time. Give yourself some grace. Slow down and take pressure off yourself to 'DO' or even to make a decision. For now, if you can do the very active thing of putting in support for yourself (IC, friends, exercise etc) then you will be doing a lot.

You do not deserve this, and it is not your fault, but you are suffering the consequences of a person lashing out through crisis.

(((((hugs))))))

Thank you so much for your support. I agree almost with everything you said. Yes, unfortunately he is a shy, scared teenager inside, who loves to run from any problem and procrastinate till it "passes". This one will not pass ofc, but he still uses old tools to deal with it.
I started to get him into sport, we run together, play badminton, i try to get him out there a little bit, to maybe show the way out for his bad emotions.
The house is his, ofc legally i have the right to stay, but i will not go this path if he will tell me to go, it's not who i am. My cocern is that i don't have my friend here and calm environment, and it might be bad for me, while moving away might give me some normal human interaction, support and calm.
For now he talks to me, shares if he is in a bad place or a good place, if he wants to interact with me or not etc. and i don't cry, yell, demand, i try to maintain a friendly and calm atmosphere at home, where he is allowed to do whatever pleases him and gets him through the day.
I don't know if he will finally snap and say that separation is the only way, but i am not raising this topic myself, i learn on my mistakes.
I see that he tries very hard to please me too, participate in the activities that we are doing together or even those that i like much more, than him, tries not to put on me too much of his bad mood. He really tries, i pray for him, that he finds his way forward and pray that he will not destroy the beautiful love and appreciation we have for each other.

[Anoi]

Hi iona,

So sorry for you ending on this situation. Do acknowledge this is save space to share deepest fears and wounds, and heal and grow.

Having read your text, I would say your number one priority is going into personal counseling. Both for anxiety and relationship. If the plane crashes down, you need to put oxygen mask for yourself first before you can even try to save others. Marriage counselling hardly ever works unless both partners are genuinely willing and ready, and from cheap seats it looks like you both need a lot of work and time. Have you contacted public healthcare (or similar) for help?

Regardless of what happens for your marriage, life will turn out well. Nobody wishes to go through this kind of "hard school of life", but you will not go to hell and back without learning skills that make the future you the best version of you. But right here and right now you should focus on the basics first: your health, your safety, and your financials. Write down a honest list of

A) what you have and where you stand - health, money, work, safety,  human connections etc

B) what are your fears - how do you cope, do you have enough money to live on your own etc

C) how do you secure your basics - Instead if trying to fix all in day, make a realistic and detailed plan. Most likely it will take several months to reach from A to B. Time will become your best friend when you learn to respond instead of reacting blindly with anxious knee-jerk.

Hope this helps you a bit.

Alvin

Yes, personal counseling seems to be my next step in this jorney, i really need some support on this front.
I have my plan A, which is to try to stay here with him and work together if possible
And my plan B where i go away, both of them are covered financially and i am working on my health issues, so should be able to handle in both cases.
I guess what scares me the most is that for me, it's my 3rd serious relationship, i hoped the last... And i really don't want to go back to dating, falling in love and all of that, i just want calm boring life. I know i will be able to, i am just scared of that perspective and really don't want it.

Thank you for your support!

[MadLuv]

Many things in your story rang true to mine. What I will say is that all that change and moving can be huge in all this when it stops. That can make a MLCer feel bored or needing excitement ( passion )  constant change that stops can make a person who has not dealt with inner issues can definitely make them come to the forefront. It definitely did for my XH.

I agree with others on checking out an IC to clear your head and help with your anxiety. The anxiety can be crippling in the beginning and continue to journal. You will really be glad to be able to go back and see and read how your story unfolded and how far you come, but even more that what you thought and what was may not have been right and that alone answers some of the intuitional conflict you feel.

[Anoi]

Well today is one of those good days, when i almost forget what is happening to him and to me.
This morning i saw his ring was back on the finger, even if for one day, it's already something, i know it can all crush and burn tomorrow, but it's the day, when i feel calm and it's good for my health.
We spoke about his mlc, how he handles it and he sounded pretty reasonable, says he understood that it will take time, that he wanted to snap out of it, but it's obviously not possible, so he takes it as it is... and tries to be functional enough to lead a comfortable life ( which he mentioned is  comfortable thanks to me doing almost everything including his chores) he is very naive and thinks that it's the matter of weeks, mayby months...i added years for his consideration.
He apologized for "not being much of anything lately", and thanked me for my patience and friendly, calm attitude and environment at home.
I wonder will it count when he will finally find the passion that will accept him and kick me out of my home...will see :/
No talks about separation, some plans for future ( house improvements etc.), a lot of physical contact after 3 days of being moody and almost unavailable.
Tomorrow he will see her again and i will have another day of wonder - which husband will return home? Happy and energetic like he is on drugs or sad and moody like he didn't get some.
And i will just work on one thing, that it shouldn't matter in which mood he comes back, i should be fine, yet another step on the long path to get My happiness back and my happiness is inside me, not him.

[FaithWalker]

Welcome to the board, iona.

This is a great place to write about your journey.  If you have not had a chance to do so, check out the link in my signature "Survival Instructions for Newbies."

[Anoi]

I told him i know about ow, i told him everything, he refused to end those relationship ( cause they will never be real) and he is gonna loose his job. Ultimatums didn't work either. He says that he loves me, wants to work on our relationship, again making some plans for the future. We cried for 2 days straight, he cried that he is sorry and told me a lot about how all that happened to our marriage. He is in a bad mood now again, i am going to psychiatrist on monday to see if hospitalisation needed. Great talk, great marriage....
Ah and he said that if she would say yes, he would be a fool not to try.
I don't know what to say... i am morally done.

[Anoi]

5 month separation ahead of me. I can't do this anymore to myself and he can be free and happy...
I doubt he will be, but he doesn't.

[FaithWalker]

Sending hugs Iona.  You hang in there.

[Anoi]

Sending hugs Iona.  You hang in there.

It is surprising, but when i finally agreed to this stupid separation i actually started feeling mich better in terms of anxiety. I demanded financial guarantees on paper and said i am ready to give him time after he signs it. He agreed, so that will be done before i leave...
I decided not to decide what to do next with my life each morning, step by step i will figure it out. And he... well, he made his choice and he is pretty convinced that he is not gonna loose me if he will not want to. Which might be second of his mistakes during this crisis.

Thank you for your support!

[UrsaMajor]

He's living the life in La La Land where he can see nothing but pink cotton candy clouds, fuzzy puppy dogs with waggly tails and Unicorns running around farting clouds of rainbow glitter.

Until the consequences of his actions are beating him in the face with a tire iron, he won't get the point. Even then, it is highly likely, if he is following the MLC for Dummies script, it will be YOUR fault that he is having to deal with the consequences of his actions.

You are 100% correct that his new found "Happy Life" is NOT going to make him happy int eh end because, well.... No matter how fast or how far he runs, there he is.... with all the same old FOO, the same old problems, the same old same old.....

As for you, taking care of yourself is the #1 priority, in whatever form that takes. You can only control yourself and your own actions.

[Anoi]

Well, for now i sometimes still wonder if it's MLC, cause he really tries to be nice. He is nice guy in general. But god knows for what he blames me for deep inside.
I see that he suffers, see that he is not happy with himself, with me, with everything. So he really wants to escape this feeling, with separation, OW, whatever it takes. I don't know if he will succeed in this journey,  but i know, that he ruined my life pretty good in the process.
For now i feel like taking what i can salvage out of this mess and give him his time and space, using it to rebuild myself and understand what is next for me in My life. All this questions bring anxiety, so i try to move really slow in my thoughts, taking it step at a time.
I am terrified of the future, ofc. I wasnt alone since i was 17. I didn't work since 23. But i will get there... i am not weak. I know there is a lot of tears and suffering ahead, but there is also something nice there, just need to survive until i will be my smily positive self again.
My health got much better, it's my victory today, to find out that i am doing better and continue on this road. At least on this path i know how to achieve my goals;)
I totally break all the rules and cry in his arms every day. Not talking, just crying. I am not a robot, i am not forbidden to show my emotions to the person i still love and he is kind enough for now to hug me and let me feel the warmth of his body. After a while i calm down and it helps me. Does it make him feel bad? I don't know and i shouldn't care, he didn't care when he hurt me the way he did.
Maybe i will loose him because of it, but if so, then for the better.

[Anoi]

The day that your psychiatrist tells you " go away from him for a while, he is bad for your health.". Soon sooon.

[Anoi]

Yet another long talk.
His thoughts to not forget:
Affraid that is ruining everything
Realize that ow is illusion and it's not better there, but can't control his emotions, which is also frustrating to him.
Became the person in professional and private life that he never wanted to be and forgot who he really is.
Wants the separation to be invisible
Started to notice that because head is always in the fog slips at work, friendships, relationship with me and it pisses him off and he wants to hide.
Thought that after all those tough years he will  finally breath out and instead "this" happened to him.
Has the question  "Is that it?" in life.
Realize that if we reconcile it should be partially new relationship.
Is very sorry for what he does to me and our marriage. Full of guilt.
Is afraid that he ruined our marriage to the point of no return, i said he didn't, he said he will try to trust me on that, but not sure he will be able all the time.
At now point i am like a mirror that he sees his bad moods in.
Life is $h!te but he is just a little boy with a stupid dream to live in the fantasy. (His words)
It's not that bad, how he is now, he's been much worse.

Me...
i need to go rest from this.

[Ready2Transform]

Your psychiatrist is a good one. Space from this emotional dumping he's doing on you will help you stabilize.

He's saying what many of us heard at the time our spouses were weighing their options. He's going to try to keep you on those eggshells by saying things like

Is afraid that he ruined our marriage to the point of no return, i said he didn't, he said he will try to trust me on that, but not sure he will be able all the time.

Now it's up to YOU to reassure him that you'll still take him back no matter what, without any wavering or "he can't trust YOU". It's a no-win. We've all been there.

You have complete confirmation that he's in the throws of MLC and limerence. Unfortunately, your grief over the loss of your marriage as you knew it is not a shared one. Be careful in turning to him for comfort, and notice how he's dumping his feelings on you, while not leaving space to consider your feelings. What would you do with an unruly teen who is doing this to you? Set a boundary, and maintain your own view of reality above all else.

You might also research "Complicated Grief". I found it described my initially few years perfectly.

[Treasur]

Wise words from Ready.
It’s a simple (if uncomfortable) truth I think that the person who is hurting us can’t heal us and that it isn’t our job to soothe them while they hurt us.

[UrsaMajor]

Is afraid that he ruined our marriage to the point of no return, i said he didn't, he said he will try to trust me on that, but not sure he will be able all the time.

Now it's up to YOU to reassure him that you'll still take him back no matter what, without any wavering or "he can't trust YOU". It's a no-win. We've all been there.

Seriously...... He chooses to throw a grenade into your marriage and he can't trust YOU that you've forgiven him?


He's the one that has the work of proving to do.... Proof that HE has done the work he needs to do in order to get his head out of his ...... fog.....   Proving that HE is willing to DO the work to pull the marriage back from the point of no return....

Instead he puts ALL the onus on you... Well, last time I looked YOU were NOT the one that blew up the marriage, right?

More of the same MLC

[Anoi]

Your psychiatrist is a good one. Space from this emotional dumping he's doing on you will help you stabilize.

Yesterday in the evening i went to the movies alone. For the first time in many years. And i think for the first time since it all happened i actually had a glimps of who i am out of this situation, the promise of the future strength, happiness and ability to live with or without him. I know time without him will start my healing process and i am not preventing it.
Yes i am very sad to leave My home, the country that i lived in for 7 years and got comfortable in. But it's me who needs time even more than him, he is the poison and now i see it very clear.

He's saying what many of us heard at the time our spouses were weighing their options. He's going to try to keep you on those eggshells by saying things like

Oh yeah, he is deeply afraid of loosing "this game" and ending up alone. So he continues his EA in fantasy hopes that She will see that he is better than her husband and at the same time understanding somewhere deep inside that it will not happened. But the drug of emotions from being in love with her and it's probably only around her, right now, that he feels something positive, is too strong and too pleasant to wake up and see what it is doing to everyone including him.
But he tries his best to give me hope, so that option number 2 is available. It's disgusting standard game, that i know too well. As for now i have no idea what to do with my life and where to do it, i play along.
As it's his first marriage and my 3d (first official) he plays checkers with a chess player and he is too proud of himself to notice it.

Now it's up to YOU to reassure him that you'll still take him back no matter what, without any wavering or "he can't trust YOU". It's a no-win. We've all been there.

I still wear my ring, i still am around being nice, i still am very reassuring. But i don't plan to be begging him to return home as soon as i am out, he will have his doubts when i am away and will at least show that i am doing better to the point of great. He already sees that i am regaining my independence and strength, which makes him nervous a bit, cause he is loosing control of his plan B, well it's his problem, not mine.

You might also research "Complicated Grief". I found it described my initially few years perfectly.

Thank you i will. Though the time frame of years doesn't suit me at all. I know MLC takes time and patience, but i have my life to live and one thing i know about myself is that i pretty much can't be alone, it's important to me to have relationship and if he will not be able to give me that, i will find a person who can. I don't see why should i suffer years of loneliness just to get back the person he is or was before. There are many ppl in this world worth of loving and looking for it. It's up to him, to not be too late with his decisions, not me.
Out of love and respect for him i give him time. But he has no hope for years, i am not that kind of LBS, unfortunately for him.

[Anoi]

Wise words from Ready.
It’s a simple (if uncomfortable) truth I think that the person who is hurting us can’t heal us and that it isn’t our job to soothe them while they hurt us.

That is so true, but i guess for me it's important to be the kind person i am and to give comfort to the person that i love, no metter what. As i mentioned in my previous post my love and kindness has an expiration date, but as long as i am here for now and 5 months of our separation didn't pass i will continue to treat him the way i treat a person that i love. After that, sorry ,not sorry.
I really want to distance myself from him, to heal, to regain myself, to become better, not for him, for me. And i will have a good support system in all of that, which makes me hopeful for my future.

[Anoi]

Seriously...... He chooses to throw a grenade into your marriage and he can't trust YOU that

He's the one that has the work of proving to do.... Proof that HE has done the work he needs to do in order to get his head out of his ...... fog.....   Proving that HE is willing to DO the work to pull the marriage back from the point of no return....

Instead he puts ALL the onus on you... Well, last time I looked YOU were NOT the one that blew up the marriage, right?

You are so right, but i am such a softy i will probably take him anyway as long as he is willing to be with me...pathetic.. Or will i? will see.
But you are right. Let's hope i'll do better than him.

More of the same MLC

Haha, you are so right. You made me smile, thank you! It's such a gift this days:)
When he told me that i am exaggerating my grief for his suffering and actually he had worse times and is doing relatively sad but ok, i wanted to hit him with something heavy... but prison is not my way out of this:) first he cries how he is pathetic and wants to be invisible and then he is doing ok? Yeah, MLC blahblahblah.

[Anoi]

Today in the morning i woke up from the dream in which i was 50 yo. And i started wondering do i actually want to be with this person when i am 50? Do i want to spend another 13 years with someone who is full of grief and hate for this world and for himself?
Not that sure... Maybe i start to have an MLC too?
This marriage starts to look really ruined with those thoughts in my head.
I guess it's finally moving somewhere, my head i mean. It's better than staying frozen and terrified and hurt all the time in hopeless hope to be better so that i am not thrown away...

Is it normal that i hope he will do worse without me?
When we met he was in a pretty bad place physically and mentally, i dragged him out of that pit and made his life pretty comfortable and nice, to the point that he realizes it even in his MLC and is very grateful for it.
But instead of hoping that i will come back after separation to the strong and healthy person, i hope that he will just slide back to his "natural" self.
So i can come in the shiny armor and save him from his misery again... Yeah i guess it's not healthy and it's still the hope for reconciliation that speaks in me.
Will see i guess, maybe it's me who will be a total wreck and some knight in shiny armor will have to save me...

[Treasur]

Well, you will do you the best way you see fit, as we all do. And change if you believe you need to.

As it's his first marriage and my 3d (first official) he plays checkers with a chess player and he is too proud of himself to notice it…

Bit confused….whats a ‘not official’ marriage, or two, mean?

…and one thing i know about myself is that i pretty much can't be alone

Imho there’s a difference between can’t and won’t or don’t want to in real life.
I wonder if you might find this a useful time to unpick your thoughts on this with a good IC or see it as a time to experiment with what it looks like?
Bc, as someone older, life so far has taught me that sometimes life circumstances do leave each of us alone and it’s perhaps useful to find our own version of that before we are forced to do so. After all, the only common denominator in your life is you, right, whatever else happens?

[UrsaMajor]

When we met he was in a pretty bad place physically and mentally, i dragged him out of that pit and made his life pretty comfortable and nice, to the point that he realizes it even in his MLC and is very grateful for it.
But instead of hoping that i will come back after separation to the strong and healthy person, i hope that he will just slide back to his "natural" self.
So i can come in the shiny armor and save him from his misery again... Yeah i guess it's not healthy and it's still the hope for reconciliation that speaks in me.
Will see i guess, maybe it's me who will be a total wreck and some knight in shiny armor will have to save me...

We LBS's do tend to be "fixers" and "rescuers" but, in this case, there is nothing you can "fix" and no one that actually WANTS to be "rescued." Quite the opposite. We are demonized for trying to "rescue" them as they consider it to be controlling....  He has to decide if HE wants to climb up out of his misery and get his poop in one sock or if he prefers to wallow in the dark, dank pit of despair and "woe is me"-dom.....

[Dragonfly33]

We LBS's do tend to be "fixers" and "rescuers" but, in this case, there is nothing you can "fix" and no one that actually WANTS to be "rescued." Quite the opposite. We are demonized for trying to "rescue" them as they consider it to be controlling.... 

I still can't believe up to now how these MLCers or let's say where they got this common script of accusing their spouses of being "CONTROLLING." This was exactly what my former h accused me of. I was controlling and he wanted freedom, which catapulted me into doing all sorts of bending forward, backward or sideways to prove to him that I wasn't controlling. 🤣 I didn't realize at that time that he was doing it so I don't snoop about his affair. When I found out about the OW, I was still blamed for being controlling and I was the one feeling guilty. How amazing is that. He was the one who was angry at me because I was snooping and controlling that's why he had to hide the other woman and had to keep their "friendship" a big SECRET. In hindsight, I should have dropped the rope earlier. I could have lessen the damage.

[Anoi]

Well, you will do you the best way you see fit, as we all do. And change if you believe you need to.

As it's his first marriage and my 3d (first official) he plays checkers with a chess player and he is too proud of himself to notice it…

Bit confused….whats a ‘not official’ marriage, or two, mean?

Before i'v been in the long-term relationships without getting it to official state. 4 years and 10 years. I left both times.

Imho there’s a difference between can’t and won’t or don’t want to in real life

I guess it's a bit of all three. I was raised by single mom, so i really really don't want to end up like her i guess, she was fine being single and i crave for that warm hug in the morning and spooning on the couch in the evening while watching something and.. all the other awesome things that being with someone brings. But part of it, after all those years being all the time with someone it is ofc pathological and i have serious problem that i need to work on.

[Anoi]

We LBS's do tend to be "fixers" and "rescuers" but, in this case, there is nothing you can "fix" and no one that actually WANTS to be "rescued." Quite the opposite. We are demonized for trying to "rescue" them as they consider it to be controlling.... 

Well i need to be saved and fixed. It's a shame i am not His damsel in distress, i guess i will have to be my shiny knight:)
He tried that shhhh with "controlling", but it's very hard, cause i am actually not, he had all his freedom to do whatever and still has it now, so it didn't fly and i reminded him his wonderful speech about me being insecure when he didn't come home till 3 am and that out of a sudden i became controlling. He agreed he was wrong.
All i ever asked of him is to give a sign that he is alive if he goes back home late, which is reasonable even by his f**d up standards.
It's now that he actually started to write to me more often when he plans to come home etc... i guess guilt pushes to be a good boy pfff...

[Anoi]

He is fine but preffers to be in a so so mood, cause eventually he will have to choose between optimistic and pessimistic, but for now he is fatalistic and in a bad mood cause it helps, cause he is tired of those moods switching 3 times a day.
Pfff.. i live like that for months, with my moods switching all around the place and i don't have OM to at least pleasure my view while living through this nightmare.
Doesn't touch me until i touch him. Wonderful.

[Anoi]

He wakes up and laying in the bed, then gets up in tears, sits on the bed. I ask can i hug him? He says unfortunately i dont think so, explains that was fine yesterday and thought that resolved something and woke up with the most awful thoughts.  As he left i said i am sorry he feels that way, but i didn't follow him downstairs, should i have hugged him anyway or should i just let him be in those moments?

[Reinventing]

Usually folks mirror the MLCer's behavior. For a simple example of that, if the MLCer displays a behavior (like saying good morning), then the LBS responds in kind (answers good morning).

[Anoi]

Usually folks mirror the MLCer's behavior. For a simple example of that, if the MLCer displays a behavior (like saying good morning), then the LBS responds in kind (answers good morning).

Well according to this logic i behaved right and just went back to sleep, leaving him to his misery. Now that i woke up he shared some info on how he felt and hugged me for a while after i came to say hello in the morning. We had plans for today, but as with all plans lately he canceled them, because of the bad mood, promising that we will go one time soon...
Said that it's weird to him, how his moods switches without any obvious reason. I only listened and said i am sorry for him and hooe that it will go better for him.
He started to share more in general, but it doesn't change much for him, instead of being with me he is sitting in his room drinking beer in the morning 0o.
I distance myself and is around him only when he wants it. As i calmed down and understood that it's probably the end, it is easier for me to follow the "right" behavior of LBS. I have my healing to do and my life to live, though it's super hard to imagine and pain is killing me, but it will get better.

[Dragonfly33]

This reminds me of my xh after BD. I was tiptoeing, only came to him when he wanted to talk to me. I adjusted to all his whims and blah blah hoping that he would come to his senses. The only thing I can tell you (you can take it if you feel comfortable, or just ignore it), is really leave him be. I would not even make an effort of starting a conversation. If he speaks to you, you answer him in a neutral way. If I could go back time, I would not come to him only when he wanted to talk. Don't forget, you are a separate person, you can also decide not to talk to him when you don't feel like it.  Stop treating these MLCers like a they hold all the cards.  Whatever you do, it will not change their mind. I learned it the hard way. Really just do you. Don't waste your energy on him.

[Anoi]

Today, i guess, was the first day when i actually talked to him about my boundaries. I told him i Want the separation and need it. That we can talk about any moves forward, only if i will see his steps towards me and obviously EA and me don't exist together. I didn't say leave her or choose me, just stated the fact. He listened and he heard me. Idk why but he actually started to talk to me, share his feelings, make some explaining about moods etc. Out of a sudden was not that critical about me staying in this country ( we have this option but i don't want to be alone). 
Another change i guess, that doesn't mean much. Will see what he will do when i am gone and will he ever take those steps. It's up to him and now he knows it.

[Anoi]

Stop treating these MLCers like a they hold all the cards.  Whatever you do, it will not change their mind. I learned it the hard way. Really just do you. Don't waste your energy on him.

I know that you are right, but that happens when i leave. For now i prefer peace and calm.

[Anoi]

This morning i think about how he is but not in the concerned way, but more like how scripted his behavior is and how pitiful. He lies to everyone, he procrastinates in every possible way, he searches for love in a person, who is already makes him unhappy. I don't think that in that state of mind anybody can make any good decisions or even like themselves. And the support system that mlcer has in his life he destroys starting with his closest friend - wife or husband.
But actually there is nothing i can do, for him.
I think i feel sorry for myself, that it happened to me, feel grief for the life we had and i tried so hard to be happy, thought that i will overcome everything and be finally happy. Well i was, for less than a year and now it's another awful time.
I am very scared of what comes next, divorce, establishing new life in a different country, finding my place there, somehow finding a job and finally finding a man to live and love. Not to mention overcoming my physical and mental problems. This fear is almost freezing me, but i know step be step i will come somewhere, where the sun shines bright, i am smiling and happy and loved.
It's a shame that life doesn't just have a pause button to breath out, but i see many stories here, of women and men, who got stronger and more happy after theirs spouses meltdown. Maybe we don't want to be, but we are the strong ones either rebuilding our lifes or standing for our marriages. It gives me a lot of hope for my future and a lot of strength in my everyday struggle to find myself in this mess and take calm less harmful decisions for my future.
Thank you all for your support!

[Reinventing]

Iona, great post. I found myself nodding as I read along.

And yes, building a new life is step by step. I tried to do something practical toward that new life every day once I had the realizations that you just wrote. I wasn't always successful in taking a step each day, but when I did, I felt better and better.

Once I realized that my life was irrevocably changed at BD and there was no "going back", that reconciliation was a new relationship if it happened, it also calmed me and helped me realize that I had to build the new life one way or another.

Step by step you can do this.

[Anoi]

For the past several days H was in a good mood, almost glowing being attentive etc. And it totally freaked me out, i thought he had progress with ow or something else, as all trust is gone.
So i freaked out in front of him with tears and it grew in an argument where i was told that i shoul share my feelings with someone else and not put his mood down with all my sh!t, finally the monster showed it's full size.
So yeah i am guilty in everything, i betrayed my promises as the start of the relationship and he was telling and i don't know how to listen to other ppl etc. All of that went into shouting match, slamming doors ( me)  and throwing my wedding ring at him.
We told each other so much bitter and awful things out of hurt and rage, then cried about common griefs, then talked a bit and went to sleep.
I had huge anxiety in the morning, i am not sure our relationship can even recover from that amount of frustrations about each other.
Ofc i started feeling guilty for everything, yes i did some mistakes, but it's not me who totally screwed it but with not being able to communicate with other ppl.
Anyway i regret even starting it, my bad side took over and i don't feel that feeling constantly guilty is in anyway healthy or normal, but he makes me feel exactly that way.
On this point, knowing him and knowing me, i think we are both "done" with each other for somw timw for sure. Love is still there though on both sides. And i just feel desperate and sad today.
It will pass. Everything will pass. Sun will shine. Just not today.

[Reinventing]

It will pass. You'll bounce back faster and faster with time.

You won't always feel this way. It does get better.

[Anoi]

It will pass. You'll bounce back faster and faster with time.

You won't always feel this way. It does get better.

Everyone around me says i will. And me, i know i will.
I know it's a process and not a pleasant one.
Thank you so much for your support!

[Anoi]

Despite the fight and his awkward way back yesterday to fix things ( he just made everything possible to stay around and play together, though i was pretty much crying and he saw that), H apparently found his way back to the good mood, invited a friend for next weekend ( was not ready mentally to see him in almost all January).
For him it became a surprise that i can actually  move out as soon as the week after next. I thought his good mood is connected to him finally being free of me, but apparently it's something separate.
Me - i want to run away. I have very hard time staying around him, i don't like his way of smoothing things out, i don't like this egoistic self centered person that he is, i don't like being taken for granted , like i should behave well, so that his majesty doesn't get sad.
I am in pain, i cry a couple of times a day, i love him and i hate him at the same time. And i just want him to leave me alone cause all he did is brought pain to my life. I know im gonna miss home and probably him, but i am counting the days...I so want to finally be able to ignore him and talk only when i want to. And being surrounded by ppl who actually care about me and not only about themselves.
I want to feel happy again. And i Don't believe that the persone who says that he will "resolve ea situation in his own way, still seeing her 3 days a week" will resolve $h!te in a month or a year. I Don't believe him at all, he is just the same lost broken guy i married and it was my mistake to think that he changed even a bit.
I want to start to heal but it's not possible around his majesty, he takes all the space.

[Anoi]

Oh those crazy mood swings... i'v been on the up side all day and totally fell apart after a little nap.
Husband seems to be still in his okey mood.
But today i discovered 2 new feelings. First that physical contact with him sometimes is not pleasant at all now, because he doesn't respond or didn't respond before and i start to distance myself because of all the previous times.
And second that i am very very tired of all that madness. I think tonight is the first time that i felt that i just want to be loved, huged, happy, have productive family plans and not all of this bs and mlc...
I know i am not ready in any way to start new relationship, but family life is a beautiful thing, when it works... i hope he will miss it someday, or i will find it someday somewhere...

[Ready2Transform]

You're healing. It SUCKS. Be totally validated in that. But you're taking so many steps to move forward, to observe how you feel without trying to push through anything, which will help it all process without resistance. In time, there's going to totally be something wonderful on the other side of this.

There's a girl I follow on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thedilemmasofemma/) who is documenting her process after infidelity and divorce, and I just adore her attitude about giving "main character energy." She's so young, but also has reflected at times the fear that she's too old now to have a family or a home again. She's not that much younger than I was at BD, and I remember having those feelings. But I can tell you truthfully that you can keep yourself stuck (which I have at times) and you can forge a path forward on your own terms (which I have also done). This is going to be a chapter, standing or not - but not the whole book. Big hugs, and good on you for letting your feelings do the work they need to.

[Anoi]

But I can tell you truthfully that you can keep yourself stuck (which I have at times) and you can forge a path forward on your own terms (which I have also done). This is going to be a chapter, standing or not - but not the whole book. Big hugs, and good on you for letting your feelings do the work they need to.

Thank you so much. I keep telling myself it's gonna get better, it's just a period in my life, i overcame so much, i will overcome this.
Ofc there are many moments of fear and hurt and doubts, so i let myself cry it out, cause locking something so intense inside is just not healthy.
I know i don't see anyway forward with H for now, because he is a pure MLC madness right now, but...

[Anoi]

Good news - i finished my last buisness here and depart to another country 12 of February.
Husband showed a little bit of anxiety and guilt about that, said he finally realizes it's something that is really happening and trying to find another way in his head but....
On that point i told him , Nooo, it's the right choice, you need your time alone, you told me, so it's all good honey, i might be sad, but we definitely should do it, it will be good for you.
On our way back from meeting he shared some of his plans for separation with me, and yes, Hello MLC! Sooo - eating healthier, exercising, will try to smoke less weed and stop smoking at all, hopes that learned through the years to take better care of himself. Wonderfull, just wonderful. I said i fully support all his plans!
And in my head is just one thought - you are preparing yourself for that new beautiful life with EA or whomever, trying to run as fast from death as possible. Before he was already doing classic mlc, but now he is just on top of his performance:)
I could barely hide my sarcastic laugh..things ppl do for love...and out of fear of death.
After that wonderful speach he bought himself some fast food:))) i refused to buy any, cause i'v been eating healthy several months already and lost 18kg  and i am not doing it for him, i am doing it for me and i know i will continue doing it without him.

[UrsaMajor]

Like Reinventing said, the painful parts will pass.... Maybe like a Kidney stone but they will pass over time.

You saw how much weight his words hold (eat healthier by rewarding himself with fast food?) over time.....

How do you know when n MLC'er is blowing smoke up your butt, aka lying? Their lips are moving... The thing is that they really believe themselves at that particular moment in time... Just that, 2 seconds later, they change their minds....

i refused to buy any, cause i'v been eating healthy several months already and lost 18kg  and i am not doing it for him, i am doing it for me and i know i will continue doing it without him.

Good for you! Take care of your own needs first and let him take care of his how ever he chooses to do so....

[Anoi]

Like Reinventing said, the painful parts will pass.... Maybe like a Kidney stone but they will pass over time.

You saw how much weight his words hold (eat healthier by rewarding himself with fast food?) over time.....

How do you know when n MLC'er is blowing smoke up your butt, aka lying? Their lips are moving... The thing is that they really believe themselves at that particular moment in time... Just that, 2 seconds later, they change their minds....

i refused to buy any, cause i'v been eating healthy several months already and lost 18kg  and i am not doing it for him, i am doing it for me and i know i will continue doing it without him.

Good for you! Take care of your own needs first and let him take care of his how ever he chooses to do so....

Well i really hope some parts of him stay the way they were and he will not make me go through a hellish divorce with hurting him a looot.
But tou are right on the point, he wants calm and friendly atmosphere at home, but escapes every time he can, to his room.
He doesn't want divorce and hopes for our relationship and thats why he kicks me out of our home.
He accepted that EA will never be real, still he spends as much time as possible with her and makes plans to be better, not for him or me, for her i bet.
He is doing only the things he wants to do, or those that i demand strongly, but he says how he cares about me.
He lives in his own reality, that doesn't have to do anything with a real world, where he is ashamed that he is ruining our family and tells ppl "we made a decision to separate". Lol, he just can't tell that he kick his wife out of the house because he is in mlc and fantasies about his EA.
All of it is blahblahblah and his choice to continue it, or stop it.
Started to participate more in house cleaning and stuff to learn, how to do it on his own:) 44 years old... how to use laundry machine. Lol.
At least i am one step further, i know how to use it and how to be happy.

[UrsaMajor]

My MLCxW still (at the age of 54) admits that she can't cook (which she can't) and doesn't know how to clean a toilet (she hires a cleaning person to come in a couple times a month to clean her flat).....

<smh>

[Anoi]

My MLCxW still (at the age of 54) admits that she can't cook (which she can't) and doesn't know how to clean a toilet (she hires a cleaning person to come in a couple times a month to clean her flat).....

<smh>

Haha, i guess we all have our strong sides, i know how to do a lot of things and i cook good, but i dont know how to make money...:/

We had a couple of peaceful days, as he wanted, like let's not have fights and hard talks before me leaving...
Yesterday we played badminton and i fell, now something is wrong with my ankle and i am limping...troubles don't seem to end:( 
As i started to feel more at peace with the situation those couple of good days totally ruined my peace, hope for the good outcome reignited and all the sorrow about "how can he ruin this, we can be so happy together" hurts my heart again...
I know i shouldn't trust his words and should look only at his actions ( kicking me out, not ending ea, still being distant etc.) but it's very hard, i guesse he didn't betray me enough yet:*(
Anyway soon i will be crying in my friend's arms and finding my peace again... and getting used to the thought that i will be fine, that live will go on with or without him.
One time i proposed to him that i can buy a house there, he obviously didn't want that and didn't like the idea at all, i don't think it's only money wise, cause i will get this money anyway. So he prefers for now to keep me on a short leash and with hope that we can be together.. idk why? Fear that his EA will refuse to be with him and he will end up alone? Probably that. I mean he says he loves me and hopes for us, but i don't believe this reason, i can't let myself believe it.

[Anoi]

He came back late from work again and i was done.
Cried with the friend, tried to calm down, but i understood that i don't want to hear "we" about work anymore, i can't see him, i can't sleep in one bed with him.
He made his choices and i finally stood for myself. Told him i want to go as fast as possible. Will pack tomorrow during day and will leave. He knows my number if he ever wants his wife back and i know his, when i will be ready to divorce.  I need to get out of this misery, where i cry my eyes out and he invites friends for weekend and thinks everything is fine and can go on his comfortable schedule.

[Anoi]

Well i survived my first day of separation. I am proud of myself, in the evening i went to the depth of despair so deep, i couldn't see the light, but understood it was actually anxiety attack, which is totally normal in my circumstances and i dealt with it.
When he brought me we hugged and kissed, he said ( and yes im gonna miss you), though i didn't say it first, tears in his eyes, i will write, will talk bla bla... i think it's guilt talking. I asked him if it hurts, he said yes and i said than maybe therr is still a chance for us.
I called him to see if he is fine ( it was a very long journey by car almost without rest) he kinda pushed us to talk a bit about this and that. Sent me a couple of messages when arrived home, nothing personal, just some everyday stuff.
During our 13 hour trip he said many things... about how he wants to change and who he wants to be and that selfishly he keeps all options open for himself... it seems he is on the same stage that we are not good for each other, though he sees changes.
I told him that i am commited to the changed person he wants to be and to the persone, that will like to work on our relationship, not to the weirdo that he is right now. I hope at least it gives some boundaries. Though i have very little hope for reconciliation from his side. I guesse he will slowly drift away, for now he seems to be scared and wanting to keep things going.

I cried all morning, i was in terrible shape, but i got up, i went to the shop, i ate, i did some stuff around the place. And i didn't call my husband asking to please take me back. I didn't cry when i talked to him. I am doing well. I am proud of myself today.

[Anoi]

It's day 3 of separation, today we will watch "superbowl" together, he will stream for me, cause i don't have my separate account. After that we have no reasons to exchange messages except for valentines day ( i left a little surprise at home, mb stupid but thats what i do each year). He answers my messages, writes himself, but it's some organization questions... i know its too early to read into anything, just blogging.
I am not crying anymore, not very active, but it's because my ankle ruined all my activity plans, feelind more "at home" as finally unpacked and organized my space a bit. Friends are a great help to not keep me in the loop.
Still making decisions every morning and evening, still let them go, it will be a long way to personal happiness, but i guess i am better.
As he is not around i feel like i lost him forever and it sucks:(

[Anoi]

I don't know how i can love him after everything he did to me and put me through, but i still do... and it makes me cry.

[zartheit]

I don't know how i can love him after everything he did to me and put me through, but i still do... and it makes me cry.

I struggled to reconcile my love for my ex-wife even after all that she put me through. Some of the questions I used to investigate this was: why would it be wrong to love someone? What is my "error" or "mistake" in that? Why would it be wrong to love them in spite of their behavior?

The only "error" I could come up with was part of that love being at the expense of myself. To protect myself, I detached. I can now see my love for her as one of the many emotions I experience. It is no longer in conflict with the pain and hurt. There is no contradiction.

I'm sorry for the suffering you're experiencing right now. I remember those tears that seemed to never stop; like draining the sea one drop at a time. I was rubbing my face raw from tissues. I wanted to give anything to escape the weight. I can give you nothing but words: it gets better. It is unimaginable but it gets better. It just takes so much longer than seems possible.

[Anoi]

I don't know how i can love him after everything he did to me and put me through, but i still do... and it makes me cry.

I struggled to reconcile my love for my ex-wife even after all that she put me through. Some of the questions I used to investigate this was: why would it be wrong to love someone? What is my "error" or "mistake" in that? Why would it be wrong to love them in spite of their behavior?

The only "error" I could come up with was part of that love being at the expense of myself. To protect myself, I detached. I can now see my love for her as one of the many emotions I experience. It is no longer in conflict with the pain and hurt. There is no contradiction.

I'm sorry for the suffering you're experiencing right now. I remember those tears that seemed to never stop; like draining the sea one drop at a time. I was rubbing my face raw from tissues. I wanted to give anything to escape the weight. I can give you nothing but words: it gets better. It is unimaginable but it gets better. It just takes so much longer than seems possible.

Thank you for your support, i need it now, more than ever. I cry less now, that i am not in the same room and even country with him, ofc nothing is worked through for now and everything is fresh and bleeding, so i just let myself be, without letting myself go.
Today is that day, i left a little something for him at home, i always did that and i did it this year, for me it's a tradition and i just keep my ground, we didn't have any contact for the last couple of days, which is normal for him and therapeutic for me, today will write a little something nice and go back, to blackout till next week.
I don't know how he will react to my little gift, but it's his choice, my choice is to be nice person that i am, who likes little surprises for the loved ones.

[Anoi]

Well, he answered to my message fast enough... no love you or miss you - no surprise there, told me it was sweet of me to leave him something for valentines day and that he watered the flowers.
Yeah, i guess it would be worse if he wouldn't answer at all. I don't know if i should write him myself, or just completely stop all communication until he writes me...
I gotta say he ztill takes care of me financially and after all i left, yes he did everything to make it happen, but it's me who said i want to go. Ofc when i am crying and sad i prefer to think that he kicked me out like an uneanted animal and that he is a total jerk, and he is, don't get me wrong, but he keeps his promises so far.
Today after i cried about his response ( and what did i expect?) i got angry enough to learn my first words in foreign language. And it felt good. So more learning less husband.
I feel a lot of anger and pain, too much to communicate in any healthy manner. Good that texting can hide the anger and tears.

[UrsaMajor]

(Sentence 1) Today after i cried about his response ( and what did i expect?) i got angry enough to learn my first words in foreign language. And it felt good. So more learning less husband.

(Sentence 2) Well, he answered to my message fast enough... no love you or miss you - no surprise there, told me it was sweet of me to leave him something for valentines day and that he watered the flowers.
Yeah, i guess it would be worse if he wouldn't answer at all. I don't know if i should write him myself, or just completely stop all communication until he writes me...

I rearranged your note above because, you have, in a way, answered (in sentence 1) your own questions (in sentence 2)

Your question about what did you expect is a valid one because, if you ended up in a ball of tears because of his lack of response (or at least the lack of any sort of emotional response), it would tend to indicate that you DID have some expectations there. Unmet expectations are the cause of disappointment and sadness...

So, look in the mirror and ask "What do I hope to gain by writing him? What response do I want to see (what do I expect)? How likely is it that he will respond in the way I expected?" If you can TRUTHFULLY say that you do NOT expect ANY sort of emotional reply from him (in other words, you have no expectations that he will act as the person formerly known as H and not as the Bat-Snot Crazy Mid-Lifer Body Snatcher that looks like the person formerly known as H) and you are OK with that, then you have your answer to your question in Sentence 2.  If, on the other hand, you are still expecting him to suddenly have a rectal-Cranial deinvertilization (in other words, you are still expecting him to pull his head out of his,,,,,  fog.... ) then you also have your answer because, well, how often does the LBS need to stab themselves in the nose with a barbecue fork before they understand that the self-inflicted pain is just not working for them anymore....

[Anoi]

Yeah, he was crying and saying how he wanted to be invisible and he has his friends over each weekend...
Full of BS.
I want to go home:(

[UrsaMajor]

Yeah, he was crying and saying how he wanted to be invisible and he has his friends over each weekend...
Full of BS.
I want to go home:(

Another instance of MLC

[Anoi]

Well i am not a present either, got my head a little bit cleared out, will stay here for a month and then return to the country i lived in and will try to establish my individual life there, cause whats the point sitring on my ass waiting for his decisions. It's gonna be hard, but i need to prove myself i can be independent person and i can be so much more than i was with him.
Informed him, that i return, for technical reasons. He didn't mind, i guesse, idk by his tone. Whatever, he can live his live, i have mine to live.

[Anoi]

Yeah, he was crying and saying how he wanted to be invisible and he has his friends over each weekend...
Full of BS.
I want to go home:(

Another instance of MLC

I will just quote you every time, because you are right! New portion ( less than 2 weeks that i am out of home)
Remembered some things he forgot about himself
Discovered some new ones
Not the same as he was before
Still have things to figure out.
I just asked how was he... and out of the blue he decided to share this.
Less than 2 weeks ffs, ofc u are not the same you were before me, u found out that towel and bathroom mat are two different things, not to mention all the rest Huge difference i brought in your life... Complementing somebody daily can bring their self-esteem to the new heights..
Lol, anyway i am in deep deep pit, that is MLC in marriage.
But i have a plan now, it's good. As someone said earlier i will rebound from those "insights" faster and faster. You were right. My head is occupied with different kind of problem now, which is me:)
I understood i am not ready to change the country again. Learn another language, new rules and all of that. So i need to find a way to stay where i lived for the last 6-7 years. And finally find some friends, job and all of it.
I will be very busy. With myself. Just trying to tell my head - enough of him, we have a big job to do on me!

[Anoi]

Every morning i waje up with anxiety, it's not fun at all and i realize this is my reality for many months now and ahead.
For now i am surrounded by friends and their support, so i let myself go, let myself fall appart, but it can't be forever and i need to find a way to put myself together when i am back, cause i have things to do. Life doesn't stop for me to fall appart or have my time or whatever.
I am in contact with my husband only by my own initiative, he answers, polite as he is, we will talk next week, cause i asked for it, just talk on the phone, but i don't want to talk any serious stuff, just a simple talk about nothing, cause i miss his voice.
I don't feel either like going dark, cause why should i? He didn't ask for it and i don't feel that way, we are still husband and wife in fact, even if i and him have our own crisises. We are not strangers to each other and i don't want to act like we are.
I will prepare for my jorney in upcoming week, i really want to go back to the more familiar environment, cause this shift of Everything is not the stress i need right now.
I still cry, not every day usually, but it's the way to relief some pain and stress. I manage to keep myself busy to not think about him every minute or hour, thats a positive thing.
As i read a lot about MLC and other ppl stories i realize and somehow got used to the thought that it's not gonna be fast, or that he will want to reconcile or work on our relationship, i don't know the outcome, no one does, but for now i don't believe this marriage is gonna survive. It's hard to even write, still the statistics is pretty obvious...
I don't feel like being bitter, or vindictive, it's not me
I don't feel like divorcing or standing for years, it's not me either
I would like to keep good relationship with him, after all he is the only friend i have there and we do have some common interests
I don't like that for now he sets all the rules, we separate because he wants to, i leave because he wants me to, he thinks he is in charge of letting me go or letting me stay or what i do with my life, which is not true at all. I am my own person but he doesn't have this impression, cause he is very used to me following his lead.
I don't regret separation though, no metter how hard it is, it gives me a necessary perspective of myself and my own life. After all i adapt better and faster in extreme circumstances and it's the push i needed for many years.
I don't want to loose kind and nice person i am, to the pain and difficulties, i want to see me smiling, i want to see me proud of me, i want to see me strong as i am and let myself be weak as i am.
I hope to feel blessed again, like i'v been feeling for so many years of my life. I hope good things are there for me and i am walking towards them.

[Anoi]

Cried again, send him my photo he didn't answer. Yeah i know it's not the right thing to do.
Yeah i know i am hurting myself.
It seems i am to blame for everything for doing, for not doing, for trying, for crying, for inflicting all this pain to myself...
How to not feel guilty qhen everything you feel and want to do is completely wrong according to someone?
Yeah i know - let go. Let go of my life, that i loved so much, of my home, of my family...
No wonder i cry. Isn't it too much to ask of a person who didn't do anything to have such a disaster happening in no time? Just sit tight, it's gonna pass, get a life, smile make friends... Are u kidding me? I barely get myself out of the bed in the morning, i live god knows where and i lost the only person i could seek protection and support from in my entire life.
It's like here is a challenge for you, on top of awfulness that happened To you.
Just a moment of self pitty. Just another evening crying. Just another evening telling myself i am gonna make it. Just another part of hope lost.
He is not partying and having fun over there, he doesn't do anything in fact except going to work and sitting at home. Yeah had friends over for the first two weekends, but not anymore.
I don't know why he has to suffer, why i have to suffer. It doesn't make any sence. So yeah. I am crying through this.

[xyzcf]

You are in an impossible situation that you never imagined could have happened...there is no need to blame yourself for anything you do or don't do. You are not going to make the situation with your husband worse. The "advice" that is given here works for some people, but it is not one size fits all.

There is no "playbook" for dealing with our emotions/depression/sadness/ hopelessness/despair. Sometimes, we yearn so much for any connection to them that we reach out, and their rejection smacks us in the face...and we wonder...why did I do that? Then we tell ourselves " I shouldn't have done that, what made me do that...all the self talk that causes more anxiety and stress.

Imagine you are in a fierce storm in a boat and you are holding on with all your strength to the mast, the waves are crashing against you, pushing you from side to side and you start to think "I am not going to make it" so you try and hold on tighter and tighter until your strength gives out and you let go because there just isn't any more in you to hold on with.

And you don't drown or get washed overboard. The storm subsides, the waves ease and the sky lightens and life resumes towards your destination. Perhaps you are off course and end up in another destination, who knows which place will be "better" for you.

I cried every single day for hours. I did not think that anyone could have so many tears. Crying is the body's response to grief and many chemicals are released so it's not a bad thing.

It doesn't make any sence. So yeah. I am crying through this.

It doesn't make any sense and we were caught totally off guard. We just want to wake up from the nightmare and we cannot because the nightmare is real.

What to do in these very early acute stage. Therapy, medication, friends to talk to who listen ( my friends lived on the other side of the world, one friend told me I had called her and cried for 3 1/2 hours on the phone. She didn't hang up on me. It was in the middle of the night where I was living).

I have always been a very resilient take charge woman, his crisis crushed me.

But the human spirit is remarkably resilient and the pieces of who I am gradually started to come together again. Not because I followed any instructions or guides from others (although I read over 100 books on how to save your marriage) but because I started to understand that this was his crisis and learning more about the psychology of his crisis as well as the support of some amazing people let me gradually come up for air.

The people here, we know...we have gone through this pain and yes, we came out the other side...and you will too. You will too. One day, the amount of tears will decrease, one day, you will not even cry and you'll think...wow, imagine that.

Today is not that day, probably not tomorrow either.

Just sit tight, it's gonna pass, get a life, smile make friends... Are u kidding me?

I know, it sounds and feels like platitudes. These are the things that slowly helped me recover, to heal...because my heart, as broken as it was, continues to want joy for me. It takes so much time to get to a place of ease....but gradually you will get to that place. Almost every story here, every LBSer does heal...but not as quickly as we would like.

((((HUGS)))))

[Reinventing]

The people here, we know...we have gone through this pain and yes, we came out the other side...and you will too. You will too. One day, the amount of tears will decrease, one day, you will not even cry and you'll think...wow, imagine that.

Yes, you will too. I also cried for hours each day.

You will make it through this, as painful as it is, to the other side.

[Trustandlove]

I cried day in, day out, for literally years.  And I did get through it.  I was probably the biggest mess on this forum, and even I came through. 

I completely understand that it sounds like platitudes, but you will make it.

[Treasur]

I hope it is some small comfort and encouragement that plenty of us have been just where you are and felt a bit crazy or less than when we couldn’t seem to easily get out of that place.

I am conscious that you said in your first post that you have an anxiety disorder.

Imho getting practical and therapeutic support with that right now is the pressing priority.
Above almost anything else.

To create some sense of stable ground under your feet and feel more confident that you can regulate your own emotional swirl.
To be able to respond not react.
To be able to hear the difference between the chatter of your amygdala and the thoughts of your frontal cortex.
Life gets easier to navigate, even in tough times, when one can do that more easily.

And of course, as I know you know, that is not something your h can fix for you, even in easier times than this.

Do you have an IC?
Or do you know where you can find the right kind of short term support?
Please try to do that.
I can hear the swirl and I’m concerned for you.

[Anoi]

It doesn't make any sense and we were caught totally off guard. We just want to wake up from the nightmare and we cannot because the nightmare is real.

What to do in these very early acute stage. Therapy, medication, friends to talk to who listen ( my friends lived on the other side of the world, one friend told me I had called her and cried for 3 1/2 hours on the phone. She didn't hang up on me. It was in the middle of the night where I was living).

I have always been a very resilient take charge woman, his crisis crushed me.

Thanks you for saying it, i`v been strong all my life and this constant misery makes me feel like i am failing myself, like i am not able to find the good way to make it better. Yes i feel crushed sometimes, like a warrior who finally fell after one too many bullet in the back.
I am blessed with you people, with this community, because the amount of support i get is amazing.
I guess that it is pretty obvious that i am still strong, still a surviver and in a way there are two parallèle process going on in me. One is last evening tears and despear, that is with me every day. Another is my inner strong self moving forward with my life step by step. Making the descisions that are right for me in current situation and doing things to achieve my goals that has nothing to do with my husband. 

The people here, we know...we have gone through this pain and yes, we came out the other side...and you will too. You will too. One day, the amount of tears will decrease, one day, you will not even cry and you'll think...wow, imagine that.

Today is not that day, probably not tomorrow either.

I have days when i dont cry, i know there will be more days when i will. I recognize the need of tears and grief and anger and rebellion against them. So i just go through. Still, you all, this forum, is a priceless gift from God to me, cause sharing with each other here i think helps even more than therapy and closest friends, Cause we get it. Cause you get it. So your kindness and support is my way forward to tomorrow where i will not want to cry, and i can only hope that for those who read it helps them too, to realise, that we are normal to feel pain and grief and that we get better, all together in our own phase.

Just sit tight, it's gonna pass, get a life, smile make friends... Are u kidding me?

I know, it sounds and feels like platitudes. These are the things that slowly helped me recover, to heal...because my heart, as broken as it was, continues to want joy for me. It takes so much time to get to a place of ease....but gradually you will get to that place. Almost every story here, every LBSer does heal...but not as quickly as we would like.

((((HUGS)))))
[/quote]

Yeah thats a big thing that also makes me cry, my heart wanting joy andf happiness for me, i feel i am betraying it instead, when i dont make any effort or not enough affort to be happy, to feel joy. Still i try every day, slowly it gets better, with each cmile, with each look in the sky without the heavy thoughts...

Yes, you will too. I also cried for hours each day.

You will make it through this, as painful as it is, to the other side.

Thank you for sharing this with me, It helps, it helps so much i cant express with words.

I cried day in, day out, for literally years.  And I did get through it.  I was probably the biggest mess on this forum, and even I came through. 

I completely understand that it sounds like platitudes, but you will make it.

That sounds like you`v been through hell and that you made it to another side and is able to support somebody going through hell right now. It sounds Awesome. It sounds not even like a hope, but like a promise, a promise i believe in.

I hope it is some small comfort and encouragement that plenty of us have been just where you are and felt a bit crazy or less than when we couldn’t seem to easily get out of that place.

I am conscious that you said in your first post that you have an anxiety disorder.


And of course, as I know you know, that is not something your h can fix for you, even in easier times than this.

Do you have an IC?
Or do you know where you can find the right kind of short term support?
Please try to do that.
I can hear the swirl and I’m concerned for you.

It helps me alot to have you guys talking to me, still in the matter of my actuall mental health things are going descent, I work with my psychiatre every week now, she keeps in check my intake of drugs that can cause dependance, i didn`t crush in the full blown depression, i am far away from going to hospital, situation with anxiety disorder is my priority above all and as an experienced user of this wonderfull brain bug, i think i am getting to a better place with that. actually i am pretty surprised myself, that it goes smoother than i though)) I am gonna be fine that way, that at least i am sure of. 
It`s pretty amazing that we can go through this together i and my disorder and not crush and burn, last time it was different and i grew so much more in this direction i am proud of myself)
Still thank you for your concern and support. I see you understand.
 

[Anoi]

And some things i take with a sence of humor, really:)
He is a 5yo, always been, always will be.
Friday i tell him that i would like to talk, monday or Tuesday cause i miss his voice.
I wasn't intending to have serious conversation, just a bla bla abouth this and that. He agrees immediately, no problem:)
Last seen in whatsapp yesterday, messages now are not being delivered (blocked? I don't think so, just switched of his phone probably).
Lol, it's really a good tactics when ppl know where you live:)))
Probably not having the great day today,but still escape and avoid in my husbands way is so childlike  and funny:)))

[Treasur]

Good to know you have support, thanks for letting us know.

[Anoi]

So he answers today, that he is not in a good or positive mood, so maybe we can speak tomorrow or later... i say i understand and we can talk when he feels like it.
We have a joint bank account. In the evening i see that he had a dinner in the region where Only his EA lives... till 9.40 pm. By the amount of money he paid for both... #%#$#$
They didn't go out during non working days before, ever. She has kid and husband at home ffs.
But apparently now they do. Wonderful.
My first thought was hope - he told her everything and quit his job.
My second thought was awful fear - They are together
Now that i lay in the bed, after calming myself down i don't know what it was, he will not tell me anyway and what can i do? I can't stop it. Can't stop him.
Can only breathe out the anxiety and sleep well tonight.
I am not ready for divorce:( and if they are together he will demand it very soon.

[KayDee]

I'm trying to think of the best words to say to you because you are only a few months in and I remember this time well. I felt like I'd been tasered. It's so hard to even know what to think because we keep getting battered over and over. So instead of having space to really think, we just react. I think we all did it. Either react with catastrophising aka an emotional meltdown or react by trying to reach the MLCr for some sort of answer or comfort. I learned, neither really made any sense or gave me any comfort. What helped me, was to create a safe haven for myself, with only people I truly trusted allowed in. That meant my H was out of the loop. I told him this. I told him I wanted space to heal. In the main, he respected this. I suggest that directly, or indirectly, your H is trying to poke you (or get some sort of rise/attention) with that restaurant bill. Clearly he knows you will see it. Consider coming off that account if you can. Set up your own account. Cut out that conduit of pain (and control). You see, our imaginations make a much prettier picture than really exists. Really there are two betraying people, having dinner, which likely tasted sour, as they look across the table at the betraying mirror of themselves. It's not a pretty picture at all. His behaviour, and hers (if you care to even consider it) says everything about them. Nothing about you. Believe me, I know it's hard, but if you cut out all the pain shopping and refocus your gaze on those in your life that deserve your love and care, you will slowly start to heal. For now, he is not worthy of you. Fact. Sending hugs and solidarity... KD

[Anoi]

I'm trying to think of the best words to say to you because you are only a few months in and I remember this time well. I felt like I'd been tasered. It's so hard to even know what to think because we keep getting battered over and over. So instead of having space to really think, we just react. I think we all did it. Either react with catastrophising aka an emotional meltdown or react by trying to reach the MLCr for some sort of answer or comfort. I learned, neither really made any sense or gave me any comfort. What helped me, was to create a safe haven for myself, with only people I truly trusted allowed in. That meant my H was out of the loop. I told him this. I told him I wanted space to heal. In the main, he respected this. I suggest that directly, or indirectly, your H is trying to poke you (or get some sort of rise/attention) with that restaurant bill. Clearly he knows you will see it. Consider coming off that account if you can. Set up your own account. Cut out that conduit of pain (and control). You see, our imaginations make a much prettier picture than really exists. Really there are two betraying people, having dinner, which likely tasted sour, as they look across the table at the betraying mirror of themselves. It's not a pretty picture at all. His behaviour, and hers (if you care to even consider it) says everything about them. Nothing about you. Believe me, I know it's hard, but if you cut out all the pain shopping and refocus your gaze on those in your life that deserve your love and care, you will slowly start to heal. For now, he is not worthy of you. Fact. Sending hugs and solidarity... KD

I think in a way i am past the stage of being frozen and shocked, yeah it happened, my husband is in MLC and i can't change it. I don't trust his words or his actions, more so his promises.
I think he is so concentrated on himself he doesn't even realize that i see what he is doing and when. And it has definitely nothing to do with him trying to poke me. He just tries to figure out himself, get that poor lady to be with him and keep his head above the water, feeling that each day he drowns a bit more.
He does take care of home and himself, but i know for a fact that there are a lot of big things, important things that he procrastinates on, making that huge snowball of trouble that can potentially be my trouble, so i prefer to keep it in check for now. It's nothing new, he was always this way, i was the one dealing with the fruits of his procrastination.
I work on having no expectations of him and letting go, focusing on my own life goals.
I guess from hoping for the better i came to the point of expecting the worst possible/having no expectations at all (depending on the life aspect) from him.
For example he wanted to talk this sunday and give me the ride from the airport on monday, i don't expect anything of this happening cause the mood can switch and he can go into his hiding. Or tell me something that i don't want to hear, or be nice. No one knows, he doesn't too:)
So i count on myself and what i can do now, to put my life back on track.

[KayDee]

You sound like you are in a better place Anoi - good to read. What you wrote about you H trying to keep his head above water - yes! I think the same for my H. Exactly. Thanks for reframing it. In my case though, I still think it is both things - on one hand focusing entirely on what he needs to be 'happy' in the moment (therefore, no strategic or longterm thinking beyond that moment) and a kind of destructive/self destructive approach to his actions that burn bridges through continuing to inflict pain.

Anyway, glad you now count on yourself - that way you know you will get to the airport 

[Anoi]

Well, i came home. Lol it sounds like i am the MLCer not him:) It wasn't planned at all, i wanted to stay for 1 day, to reorganize what i take and go away.
Instead i got picked up from the airport and headed straight home  without stopping at the place where i was supposed to go... There are a couple comfort problems there, but fixable, anyway go figure why he decided to bring me straight home.
I didn't expect any change in behavior and there is none, he doesn't look happy, he doesn't look good.
Home is relatively clean, cause i left it so and not much was done, ofc instead of contacting me with practical questions he decided to do everything on his own and it led to a couple of newbie mistakes and killing the aquarium. In less than a month, yeah. The whole aquarium experience apparently was super horrible for him and he didn't think i will react calmy and supportive, but i did cause i felt nothing but sorry for him.
"Are you in a hurry for difficult talks?" He asked me in the first day - i said no, i am not ( i was exhausted and why hurry) so in a couple of hours we were already playing together and not having any talks.
I asked him if he did a couple of things that he planned to do and was supposed to do, he told me it was "wishful thinking on his side"... i always believed in him more, than he did in himself, i guess he was right and i was wrong.
I always tried to cook good and yummy, so i proposed i cook something when we stopped at the shop " i wouldn't ask you, but if you want..". I want, why not? Told me that he ate very simple and that he was always very simple with food, i guess some sort of poke, cause i never cooked simple and he enjoyed good food, but if he is very happy on his pizzas and bread and cheese, thats his choice. He seems to think that his body will be fine with such a diet too, well it will not.
A couple of months ago we were at the dentist and she told him to check his tooth. Ofc he didn't. So yesterday i got every LBS dream come true - my husband laying on the floor, crying and begging for help. Yeah the tooth.
I took care of finding emergency room, filling up papers and all that. It was really bad pain, they had to give him morphine and many other pills.
Ofc my weedhead of a husband wanted to drive back home by himself, when painkillers finally worked after a couple of hours. Cause he is fine! So i had to ask doctors to forbid him that and they insisted on calling taxi. Ofc "it was a wrong decision on my behalf and he felt bad that i mentioned that he wanted to drive to the doctors". I said if you want the car is there, but i will use the taxi. So thanks god he didn't drive that night. But i was wrong..yeah, sure:) Gratitude? Non. I didn't expect it too.
Even being through such pain, with no guarantee that it will not return, he procrastinated on calling the dentist, so could only get an appointment for tomorrow. I will not be able to go with him, cause i have my own thing to do at the same time, but apparently i am staying for now and taking care of him. Which i don't mind, cause being home is nice and his behaviour has much less effect on me now.
He Lets me hug him, lets me kiss him on a cheek and such ( i didn't even try lips cause i don't feel like it), a couple of kisses back and he hugs back, nice as he always is, but no initiative, tries to show me how he is not interested. Well let it be so, i enjoy a little hug and physical contact and i get it and he can refuse if he finds the strength to. Plus i will be out pretty soon.
Some "we will" are popping up here and there from him. I didn't check his phone, only checked his history in case he searched for divorce, but seems not for now, will see if he demands it i will say no, but i am not sure he will.
I don't know where my powers come from to just feel sorry for him and a bit numb, being nice with him and all that, but they are coming from somewhere. I did enough damage on my side ( doesn't mean i am guilty of mlc or what is happening) and i don't want to do more, he has enough on his plate and i have enough on mine. So i hope i will be able to keep my emotions in check and calmly finish this little adventure and continue with my big one.
Only seeing him so weak, small, lost, incapable to communicate and abandoned in how he looks, made me fully accept and realize that i can't fix him, that it's his crisis, that he is suffering and that it is for years for him. I will be fine and i feel sorry for him, he will not be fine. It's impossible to be fine in such state and place.
I accept that it is what it is and don't have any good expectations anymore. GAL is the only way.

[Anoi]

Hello to all who reads it. I am sorry you and i know a special sort of crazy people, who we love or loved.
So the last news from LaLa land that out of a sudden!!! month of solitude was enough to figure out that he is not the way he was before and that he is missing everyday having somebody ( yes he said somebody, not me in particular) at home to connect and talk with. Amazing discovery came with his proposal that i stay at home For now, cause it's practical, other home is a lot of work and because of his amazing discovery.
Well, lets see how it goes, it's harder to detache, but i don't have more comfortable choice for now, then my own (?) home.
For now i manage to not put my emotions on him. He comes late, goes early, does whatever i react only in positive way. Why? No, not to please him, to please me, no talks will fix his mlc, but they can definitely make me crying, anxious and sad even more than i am.
So i try to fix the only person i can fix - me.
I found a wonderful meditation on youtube it's called "it's okey" and first time i listened to it back at my friends place and i cried my eyes out, because this gentle woman's voice was telling me what i really needed to hear, that i am okey and that i am gonna be okey. I listen to it everyday now, but rarely crying, mosly relaxing myself, it's my time for me, away from all the stress.
And there is a lot of stress, i went on my first job interview, started to write my CV, this weekend i am doing first aid course that is needed to get drivers license here, at the same time gathering information for future education.
I have a lot on my list of "to do" things, not mentioning the house, garden and stuff my MLCer can't make himself do.
Yesterday i fell asleep with a smile, today i cried on my way back home, cause i can't trust him, no matter what he says and it's a lonely place to be. But there is a progress in the way of letting go - i didn't check his phone since i arrived, though i saw her writing. What either than pain can it bring? Nothing.
Today i decided to stop checking his bank account too. If he lies, and he will lie, i don't want to know. It changes nothing for me, for my future, cause if he makes any idiotic decisions (divorce and such) i will know and before that happens i need my cool for me.
The only way i see for me to move forward, away from my pain is to let him be how he is, to let him go.

[Anoi]

Mlcer didn't come home last night, stayed at friends place, drank too much as he said. I didn't check.
Actually one thing is killing me, well two. First that the man i love feels cold as ice and second that i sleep alone. I sleep alone more than a month now and i truly, deeply don't like it.
I am probably the lucky one, cause he still hugs me and kisses me on the cheek or front, but actually i start to miss grown up adult relationship with  a man. Not an empty shell, but a loving man. I missed it before, but it's getting worse.
Today i am not a standing material for sure:)
Feeling like a ball of problems, don't know what to talk about with other people, everywhere is just another problem.

[Anoi]

Out of sudden insight, once again out of the blue, but i guess it's a response to my behavior and my behavior is a response to my work on myself.
So in this month that he was alone, finally getting me out of the picture as his main issue ( my explanation, not his) he understood that not only i am a stranger and everyone is a stranger, but he is a stranger to himself. Who am i? Is the question in his head. He doesn't know.
I told him it's okey to not know.
We talked about him being physically distant (on his initiative) it also comes out of not knowing. He is distant from everything and everyone cause he doesn't know who he is anymore.
She called and he told me that she called and i didn't react. I don't react judgmental or negative to anything, cause it brings me peace and pride of myself. I behave like a person, who i would respect.
And as a side product it gets positive feedback from him, feeling more comfortable to open up, to discuss,  to share. Why wouldn't you share with a person who shows only grace and appreciation?
He said he is sorry, he knows it is hard fom me. I told him i accepted his jorney, i accepted his not knowing. It's true, yes i cycle from tears to numbness, from depression to positive smiling times, but it's my jorney and my desire to not share it with him. Cause he is not a person who can truly appreciate or listen or understand my feelings. So why would i share them with him? Still i accepted his MLC. And that i am alone. And that he is with his MLC.
He said that in a way ( lol) he is glad that i came back. Well good for him. It's hard for me to be back, or not to be back, it's so freaking hard, he would fall and die and i am stepping in yet another day and i am OKEY. So that is something i am very proud of, very.
Ofc the comfort of home is nice, but... actually, my psychiatrist asked me-  did i miss home? And i said yes, but i wasn't truthful i think... it was a quick answer. I miss My home. Home where i live with my husband. Home that i want to be cozy and nice for me and for him, home where i have projects and ideas. Home where i feel emotionally safe.
I didn't miss this home, the home that is right now.
Don't get me wrong, it's still nice, but it's not truly Home.
That MLCer is still very much my husband though, which is funny, cause he doesn't recognize himself, but i do recognize him very well. All that self hatred and narcissism at the same time, all that self sacrifice and being an incredibly mean person to anyone close to him. All that procrastination and avoidance of conflicts that only leads to so much more trouble for himself.
Even before MLC the first word i would use to describe my husband was "difficult", second would be "heavy".
And all of that is running around in his head, playing games with him and i think he would be terrified if he would actually meet himself. It's exactly what is happening, he has a date with himself, it's getting there, it will lead him to see a person, that i see and live with. The person i was working on and did a lot  to free from his self build prison.
Btw he said he is Incredibly grateful for it. Well you are welcome,  you paid me back in such pain, that now i realise why for 37 years no one would touch it, but i am the one who dared. If i would know that MLC exists back then, i would run, cause he is and was an ideal MLC material. I didn't know, it's one of my very few regrets in life.
Lalalander actually thinks we are working on our relationships. I told him, stop dealing with our relationship, just stop! Like i told him before - our marriage is fine, just leave it be for now.
How in the world he works on relationships if he doesn't know who he is? Who is working on them then? Crazy person, thats who is. Well i didn't tell this part:)
So i have to remind him to focus on himself. All the time.
I push him in his tunnel with all the strength i have, so that he moves his 6. Cause he is low energy wallower and it's gonna take forever anyway. And as he cycles, he will not be able to face himself truly and will soon enough return to outside being a problem. But at least he will do those few steps in the meantime.
I am not standing or moving on. I just move in my own direction observing and participating in something i would never wish to anyone. If i will succeed i will come out of it a much better person than i am today. That is what matters, that is my goal. Him is not my goal, him is just a circumstance.

It's good to have here... to just write down things that are in my head. It feels like sharing.

[Treasur]

I’m a little confused….and therefore not sure if/how to respond or support you.

He stayed out all night with a ‘friend’? And ‘she’ called? Is there an OW he is spending time with? Bc that might affect our advice and your choices.

You left intending to stay in another country, talked about reducing contact but seemingly didn’t, changed your mind after a few weeks so then came back intending to stay for a day and go someplace else, he picked you up at the airport and drive you home so now you are staying there? You say you are working on yourself and you also say you are trying to push him through the ‘tunnel’ bc he will take too long otherwise?

I don’t know how any of these choices might affect you financially or legally if things get worse, or if you can financially support yourself in this country or another if needed, or what you are trying to ‘work on’ about yourself or your GAL plans to focus on other aspects of your life?

What I see is that you currently seem to be behaving quite reactively, emotionally speaking, understandably perhaps, and also quite passively in some ways. I don’t know if this is shaped by your anxiety disorder, the current shock of the situation or if it is your normal way of doing things. I could have misunderstood of course. But I am not sure I understand your intention right now, what you are trying to achieve, and therefore what kind of input might be useful. Or not lol.

My instinct is that you may need to find a way, perhaps with support from an IC, to breathe, think and slow down your own reactions to events, to create a bit of mental stable ground under your feet, whatever that means for you.

Can you help us understand what you are trying to achieve right now? If you have a plan or intention? And how we might support you? There is no ‘right’ answer to this, just whatever you feel is currently the best answer for you right now. But I’m not sure I understand what it is or what you want.

[Anoi]

He stayed out all night with a ‘friend’? And ‘she’ called? Is there an OW he is spending time with? Bc that might affect our advice and your choices.

He has an EA with his boss/colleague. She called yesterday evening. He told me about that. It's not a PA for now. They don't spend time outside of work or had just one dinner outside of work.
The friend he stayed with a night is a very old friend of his.
It's two different people.

You left intending to stay in another country, talked about reducing contact but seemingly didn’t, changed your mind after a few weeks so then came back intending to stay for a day and go someplace else, he picked you up at the airport and drive you home so now you are staying there?

I did reduce the contact during my time in another country. We spoke 2 times on a phone in a month and i wrote every 2-3 days. It's much less contact than we had in years.
I changed my mind about other country cause in this month i realised i am not ready to change the country. Immigration is not a fun jorney and actually pretty hard. To put that on top of my heartbreak and anxiety is a way to disaster.
So i decided to at least try to settle independently in the country i am currently in. It's not an easy jorney, but very possible. The level of life, job market, etc. is much higher here.
I didn't expect or asked him to return back home, still for financial and emotional reasons it was his decision that at this time it would be better.
For me, as i am busy with finding job, getting my drivers license, etc. it's not a bad decision either.

You say you are working on yourself and you also say you are trying to push him through the ‘tunnel’ bc he will take too long otherwise?

Yes i am working on several things currently, as i described before. Plus i am working on my acceptance of the situation the way it is in my relationship with him.
As i think right now, in this moment, there is no quick  or right way out of his MLC and i prefer to stay supportive and his friend, rather than push myself and him to the rush and "easy" decisions.
When he opens up about how he feels and what he goes through i try to help him the way i see fit. I tell him to search inside, not outside. To work inside, not outside. Cause his MLC is a manifest of his problems with himself, the way i see it.
So my way of "pushing" him through the tunnel is to stay supportive and remind him, that this jorney is His jorney and that it's okey, he is not going crazy, but ruining His life in the process will not fix it.
It doesn't mean that he will not ruin it, or that it will help or that our marriage will survive this.
It will take too long anyway no matter what i do, so i do what i see fit.

I don’t know how any of these choices might affect you financially or legally if things get worse, or if you can financially support yourself in this country or another if needed,

Well i have some funds to keep me afloat. Legally in this country neither i can kick my husband out of the house nor can he. Legally i will get much less, than what we discussed. Legally i am not protected neither as housewife or just his wife.
Legally i can not give him divorce for 2 years. But "legally" is not the place he or me is right now,
To make this part of the situation more stable i look for a job. Which is also not very easy in this country, cause even simple waitress has to have surtain education here. But i will find it. And then after 3 month of hard work, which needed to rent an appartement here, i will think if i need to leave.
If he will want me out of the house before that, it will be another situation and discussion. I don't know if you know many ppl with anxiety disorder but lets say we always have plan A,b,c and up to z.

and also quite passively in some ways

I would really like to know what did you mean by that?

Can you help us understand what you are trying to achieve right now?

Stable financial independence.
Stable emotional reactions on my husbands mlc jorney.
Stable emotional state in general.

And how we might support you?

I guess suggest an interesting ideas for GALing and finding friends;) Really not with the question of my plans when things go south, cause i thought already so much about it and i know my answers and i don't want to come here, where it is my safe place and see them again. It brings nothing but anxiety.
And what helped me alot is actually live day by day, make steps towards my personal goals when i can and vent about my husbands wonderful jorney in here, not with him, not with anyone else, with you guys.
For example another line from him, i think many will recognize it.
I sent him a picture last month. Just a nuce picture of me smiling on sunny day. And he said he looked at it and there was a question in his head " who the F is it?"
And he has that question pretty much for everything around him including himself.
I am trying to imagine this state of mind and in a way i can't and in a way i live with a stranger too, but he did actually change the behavior, not personality.
Btw he recognizes that something started happening  at the start of the last year, so very soon after his mother passed. But it's what he recognizes as start of mlc, but did it start even before that? I wonder...

[Treasur]

Thank you for explaining some of the specifics of your situation, that’s helpful bc understanding where you are and what you want is important. This is not a one size fits all forum imho even if there are similarities in our spouses’ behaviours.

I don't know if you know many ppl with anxiety disorder but lets say we always have plan A,b,c and up to z.

I did not know that. Or at least in my experience of ptsd, the a b c were a list of awful things that could happen rather than plans, and it was easy to become overwhelmed by them to the point of freezing. But obviously my experience is different from how it works for you, my apologies.

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and also quite passively in some ways

I would really like to know what did you mean by that?

Really for no other reason than you flew back with one plan and then seemed to change that plan completely bc he assumed you would or said you should. Please understand, I am not saying that changing the plan was a bad idea….from what you say, I can see a lot of practical benefits to it….just an observation about what changed the plan. Or more accurately where the energy to change the plan came from perhaps. It may not matter, but many LBS find that building plans in this way or going along with their spouses often unspoken plans can keep us hooked onto their rollercoaster. And many of us also find ourselves reflecting on some of the old patterns in our pre BD relationship that we may want to change….there are a lot of LBS here who found that dealing with avoidant, needy or emotionally limited spouses over years had turned us into accidentally becoming fixers or over-functioners or appeasers. And often setting new boundaries involves doing less of those things. I don’t know if that is true for you, but it is pretty common here.

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Can you help us understand what you are trying to achieve right now?

Stable financial independence.
Stable emotional reactions on my husbands mlc jorney.
Stable emotional state in general.

That’s helpful.
What does a ‘stable emotional state’ look like to you?
Can you think of some times when you feel you have achieved that? When you have not?
What makes it harder to do? What makes it easier?
I think you mentioned that you have an IC? This can be the kind of thing that an IC can be very helpful with. Put simply, I would encourage you to try creating a bigger gap between emotion and response…..to find ways to slow your head down before you react. To breathe, to give yourself time, to go slow.

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And how we might support you?

I guess suggest an interesting ideas for GALing and finding friends;)

Well, I’m not sure what to say here bc there are literally hundreds of different things different LBS have done lol. It depends on what kinds of things interest you, what’s available where you live and tbh what you think has got in the way of that before now.
What do you like doing? What interests you?

Bc the essence of GAL is that it focuses more of your time and mental energy on things that are about you, goals you want to achieve for you, not bc you are doing it to fix your marriage or please your spouse.

At a simple level, I’d suggest keeping your goals small…..particularly if you feel that you have less GAL and friends in your life bc you have spent most of your time with your h. What is one small thing you could do to change that, a change in the daily routine perhaps? Something simple like a long morning walk, or going to a gym or going to a cinema on your own. Or joining some local volunteer group involved in something that interests you, or signing up to a study class in something that interests you.

It sounds as if you might naturally be more introverted and if so, GAL does not have to mean big parties lol…..it can also be doing things by yourself or in small groups like a class or hiking group or joining a choir or helping litter picks or local tree planting say. Or setting up a small business or joining an online hobby community. Even just using local social media to find one person who might be interested in doing something that you like to do….someone to do a morning walk with or someone who likes the theatre you do. Where I live you often see these kind of small local groups advertise on sites like Next Door or Facebook…..what kinds of things are going on where you live? Above all, you are not alone….there are plenty of nice humans out there who might also be looking for a bit more social contact for a variety of reasons, and plenty of local groups who are always delighted to have an extra pair of hands . 

Perhaps think of it as growing the size of your world outside your marriage….things you do more of bc they are about who you are independently rather than being your h’s wife. Things that grow you regardless of what is happening in your marriage, things that remind you that you existed before getting married and that you matter regardless of what is going on with your h. Focus on small actions, regular consistent actions, rather than big goals seems to work better when life around is difficult. And it’s ok to try different things, or try some and then try others, bc it’s about the direction of travel not the goal itself if that makes sense?

But again, it depends on what interests you.

[Anoi]

But obviously my experience is different from how it works for you, my apologies

.

Yeah i overthink a ton and to each awful situation i try to find solution. It's not fun, sometimes it makes me ready to answer faster and find the way faster, sometimes it doesn't. Like i thought i had a plan for many years to go live in another country if things go south. And then i did and it made me feel so abroad and made me feel such a rejection of foreign culture, that i just had to return. It's a normal thing for immigration process, but it's not easier than MLC and i just understood that i am not ready. Okey plan B then and so on, until something works.
I always react pretty fast to the extreme situation, so your advice about slowing down is right and working in some areas of my life.
What you described as passive is actually slowing down and not reacting emotionally. So he said "i think you should stay home" and i didn't argue about that. It doesn't change my plans, so why bother?
Yeah it's kinda bad for detachment, but on the other hand everyday seeing an empty shell kinda encourages you to take it as it is and just get on with your life.
He is not monstering, i don't provoke arguments, everyone is trying to be nice. So it's not like i live in a complete nightmare. Yeah it's not wonderful, but that is how it is for now. I don't know anything about years ahead right now, i am what? 3,5 months post BD:) I can plan on this point maybe for a week:)

What does a ‘stable emotional state’ look like to you?
Can you think of some times when you feel you have achieved that? When you have not?

When i am of support drugs and only on antidepressants. I achieved it before and was fine for years until BD , so now i am slowly working through it day by day, trying to deal with my anxiety once again in some old ways and some new ways.

It sounds as if you might naturally be more introverted and if so, GAL does not have to mean big parties lol

Haha yes, thank you for some examples and thoughts on the matter, actually i even installed an application to find friends, mayby will have a "date" next week:) I had a lot of life before BD, but yeah it involved my husband and i felt lonely cause he didn’t satisfy my needs for going out. So it's a good change to go meet some ppl.
Unfortunately for now my ankle standing on the way of sports activities, but i will get there:)

What my husband said he wanted to do - be more open to communication with other people, more social, i am actually doing while he sits near his computer and jerks off on the pictures of OW. Isn't it funny?

[Anoi]

Tonight i had a dream about other man, a stranger. It was a nice sexy one and i enjoyed not only the sexy part, but that he looked at me with that "in love" in his eyes. God i miss that...
Probably i look like that at my H but he doesn't care.
 It's a shame that i am not ready emotionally to date, to move on, it would be nice to be in love again and to be loved again. I guess he misses it too. Well he is in love, but i had one EA and it's not fun thing, not really, when it's simple and mutual it's such a natural high...
Today i did good, did some stuff that i planned, sent some CV, worked in the garden. I am happy with myself today. H was in his "absence" state. I see he started drinking much more than he used to. Nothing too much, just a glass of gin tonic, or 2. Still smokes weed. I changed my ways, but he acts like i never left... well that doesn't fly with me, i leave some house chores to him now, i am not doing everything around here, like i used to. He wants change - here is some change for him. And for me too and i like it.
When i will start working it will be harder and easier at the same time, cause i will not have enough time on my hands to be a perfect housewife, he will have to adjust and get his 6 to do some stuff.
I am super afraid of all the drivers license business, cause i stopped driving 10 years ago because of anxiety and i hope i will overcome it somehow to pass the practical exam. It was back in my home country and it was very aggressive road traffic in 6 millions city, here it is different and most people obey the rules, so i should be fine, i am a fan of rules:)

[Treasur]

 

I am not doing everything around here, like i used to. He wants change - here is some change for him. And for me too and i like it.

Oooh, you have a lovely sassy feisty bit in your character, I see. 
And I guess that bit of you is really helpful right now to get little pockets of joy back in your day to day life regardless of what your h is doing with his time. Well done, keep going, go you!

[Anoi]

I am not doing everything around here, like i used to. He wants change - here is some change for him. And for me too and i like it.

Oooh, you have a lovely sassy feisty bit in your character, I see. 
And I guess that bit of you is really helpful right now to get little pockets of joy back in your day to day life regardless of what your h is doing with his time. Well done, keep going, go you!

Haha, yes, just a pile of dishes getting bigger and bigger and i try to not loose my cool and not to wash them. God, he is sooo lazy it's just unbelievable.
Fun fact - today was his working day, OW should have been there. He stayed home, i saw some vodka involved, but not much, says he is having a bad day.
Well, apparently even she can't make his days better anymore. Welcome to the club b..ch.
I spent most of my day outside, traveled to do some stuff i needed, the weather was beautiful, first time walking without coat. It was really lovely i came home smiling:)

[UrsaMajor]

I am not doing everything around here, like i used to. He wants change - here is some change for him. And for me too and i like it.

Oooh, you have a lovely sassy feisty bit in your character, I see. 
And I guess that bit of you is really helpful right now to get little pockets of joy back in your day to day life regardless of what your h is doing with his time. Well done, keep going, go you!

Haha, yes, just a pile of dishes getting bigger and bigger and i try to not loose my cool and not to wash them. God, he is sooo lazy it's just unbelievable.
Fun fact - today was his working day, OW should have been there. He stayed home, i saw some vodka involved, but not much, says he is having a bad day.
Well, apparently even she can't make his days better anymore. Welcome to the club b..ch.
I spent most of my day outside, traveled to do some stuff i needed, the weather was beautiful, first time walking without coat. It was really lovely i came home smiling:)

[Anoi]

I am so happy i found this site and forum pretty early on. It helps and helped a lot, i would go insane, probably not understanding what is going on and what to do.
This week H took time off work, because he got tired. It's suspicious by itself cause he works with his EA, but whatever. He is in depresses bad mood, so if i didn't know it has nothing to do with me, it's not even about me, i would freak out and ask, ask, ask and fight to get him out of this.
We planned to go to the movies tonight, but now when he says we qill do something i give myself a 90% guarantee that we will not (experience!), so i get a nice surprise if we do.
Ofc instead after taking a nap he woke up completely depressed and on my question would he like to play/do stuff together he said "i just need silence". Again, i would never understood how to behave and why and what in such situation.
What did i do? I left the room where he was, returned back with a plate of cut fruits and left again for the whole evening. That's it. I didn't care, didn't get anxious, i had my own fun doing my stuff. And for that i need to thank this site and all of you people:)
In 4 hours he came out, rubbed me a bit, was friendly and smily, had a good conversation about some everyday stuff. Asked him what changed his mood today? He doesn't know, nobody wrote or anything like that, just switched. It happens often. Maybe she wrote, maybe not, it doesn't matter what really happened.
I described it just to share my experience with for now at home MLCer, for others. Don't panic, don't act out of fear, don't care too much, cause in an hour it might be completely different story.
It doesn't mean we can save our relationship like that, but ourselves most definitely.

[Reinventing]

but ourselves most definitely.

And thats all you can control anyway.

[Anoi]

I guess it's easier when you know that it's MLC and not something else.. i read other stories and people have doubts, well, i don't.
I had a very good day, went forward with my drivers license process and out of a sudden for me ( though i did use the app to prepare) passed the theory exam on the first try, which was 15 minutes after i got the right to pass this exam, lol:) I was smiling and proud of myself.
I do most of my meetings/thing i need to do in life on my own. I don't ask my husband to drive me somewhere or help me if it's not absolutely necessary. I know, for most people it their everyday life, but for me it's a huge change:) and you know.. i am fine with it, starting to get a taste of it in a way.
My job search for now doesn't bring the same positive results as my other ways of GAL, but it's been 2 and half weeks so i guess it's fine:)
I see some action from my MLCer that make me feel like he is responding a bit to my positive behavior and changes in me since I've been back. Some simple nice everyday gestures, nothing major, but it's better this way.
The other day he was monstering about his friend, so much anger in him towards anything and anyone who doesn't acr the way he wants.
As i get my drivers license we are finally on the topic of buying new car for him, lol, it's not gonna be red or anything super expensive, but yeah, i had my share of laughter:)))
I am totally fine with this plan, cause i get our current car, which is a nice one.
Having some trouble doing everything i need to do at the same time, seems to be too much on my plate, but i try to keep up.
Is there any topics you can recommend to read for at home MLCer? Maybe some articles? For now it's this way, so i would like any advice and experience of others.
I agree with those who think that this is not an ideal scenario, but for now it's that one and i need some good advice on how to handle this type of insanity.
Lol, every time i am asked what is going on with my marriage and him and his decisions and actions i can't explain without the feeling that i talk about something completely inadequate. There is no reasonable explanation for MLC behavior and response of LBS to this behavior. I mean reasonable for ppl who never encountered MLC.

[UrsaMajor]

Lol, every time i am asked what is going on with my marriage and him and his decisions and actions i can't explain without the feeling that i talk about something completely inadequate. There is no reasonable explanation for MLC behavior and response of LBS to this behavior. I mean reasonable for ppl who never encountered MLC.

That is why FakeBook invented the Relationship status "It's complicated."

[Anoi]

Lol, every time i am asked what is going on with my marriage and him and his decisions and actions i can't explain without the feeling that i talk about something completely inadequate. There is no reasonable explanation for MLC behavior and response of LBS to this behavior. I mean reasonable for ppl who never encountered MLC.

That is why FakeBook invented the Relationship status "It's complicated."

Well they should add "it's inadequate" Because adter all is it really that complicated? We are here and we talk about how it is scripted and how many similarities we see in their behavior and the goal we set to ourselves is to detache and become a whole person again, with or without them.
Not as complicated, just hard:)
I am planning a weekend trip with me, myself and I. Have two places to choose from. I need to breathe some fresh air while i am still jobless and not that busy. Looking forward, will be good time;)

[Happylight]

Taking a trip by myself is something that I would like to do.  I have rarely taken any time to do anything for myself or go anywhere and the one weekend I go for a work conference (like the 3rd time ever in 23 years), I return and can tell something is OFF, and then 3 days later, bomb drop and all hell breaks loose.  Now, I feel frozen.  I know the conference didn't cause it, but I feel like I have PTSD in regards to going somewhere on my own.

[Anoi]

Taking a trip by myself is something that I would like to do.  I have rarely taken any time to do anything for myself or go anywhere and the one weekend I go for a work conference (like the 3rd time ever in 23 years), I return and can tell something is OFF, and then 3 days later, bomb drop and all hell breaks loose.  Now, I feel frozen.  I know the conference didn't cause it, but I feel like I have PTSD in regards to going somewhere on my own.

Yeah, i can understand it, i am learning to drive again and for me it wasn't the best experience before, so i felt frozen for years on this topic, but BD ended my marriage, ended the wonderful life i had and i survived and i understand that now i just have to do the stuff that makes me scared or uncomfortable, or i will never actually get past it and face the reality, that life is different and i can live it and find my way forward to happiness.

[Anoi]

Well, i had another wonderful talk with my H.
I thought i will get much more hurt with it, because he is deep in his EA, plus having a depression cause things don't go his way.
As i returned he started to blame his lack of action in his own path on me again. Which is no surprise. This time though i had some solid proof that i didn’t in any way stop him from living his life to the fullest the way he wants to do it. Thanks to my dedication on GAL he ended up going in the old family dynamic, not me.
That is always fun to see how the things you read about turn into scripted scenarios in your MLCer. He is doing it by the book, "for dummies" version in particular.
The little new chapter is that he started terribly monstering about one of his friends. I never liked the guy, though he visits our home and we have okey relationship. Doesn't matter, the fact is he is an old friend and he is the new target of rage, for things he was doing since the very start of their friendship probably. If before he was a soulmate with interesting opinions and vision, now he is a stubborn stupid and non negotiable. He didn't change a bit actually, my H did though and now in escape and avoid not only with me, but with this friend too.
The whole childhood trauma also resurfaced with so much rage, he actually screamed at his dead mom. Like she was in the room.
All of our marriage he did everything to turn our relationship into the only disfunctional family he knew and now got to his most glorious result - living under the same roof and being separately miserable and unhappy. I tried to very gently point it to him, but he didn't understand what i was talking about, so i stopped, not the the time, unfortunately he doesn't see it for now.
After failing to put all the blame on me, he opened that several things happened during my absence and it got him to that openly depressed state that he is in. Didn't say which things and i didn't push for it.
Blames himself for the fact, that he didn't need to write to me and such. Pretty much blames himself for not loving me the way he should. It's not remorse, just guilt, so i didn't validate it.
By the end of our conversation he decided to give another shot to his self imagined way of "being better person", which even he admitted is not real decision cause it can change tomorrow or in a week.
He is describing a constant fight in his brain about everything in his life, all of that during being very heartbroken because yet another time in his life he is in a situation of unrequited love and back to his old patterns of self destruction. He thinks it's a "real" him. Well, after all, except for the time of our marriage he is actually right, it is real him.
I have my theory that this crisis is his opportunity to finally stop pursuing different goals in life that he can't achieve and find the balance between his wishful thinking and harsh reality.
But it's his path and i realize very well i can't do anything about it. I talk to him about it so that he at least hears himself talking, the worst thing that is happening right now is that he doesn't share with Anyone. Except me and only because i know how to get him into sharing state. He has friends, he has this EA that he loves so much, but if before he shared his thoughts and frustrations with her, which was convenient for him cause it was "all my fault" and she tried to "help" him by encouraging to destroy his marriage, now he is in such deep sh!!t on so many levels that he can't share even with her.
I think it's a very alone place to be, where he is and i can listen and be there for him at least that way.
I am trying my best to share some details here, cause it helps me when i read others, when they describe what is going on in their MLCers and i hope some of insights into my H head mess will help someone to understand that MLC is not something pleasant and awesome for the MLCer and at the same time it's in no way LBS fault.

Well lets finish on the good note! They promise snow on Sunday where i will be, i will be looking from the warm pool at falling snowflakes, Yay! Oh that is gonna be Awesome!!!
 And monday i have my first "friend date", i wrote to many ppl and finally got one who answered and is ready to give it a try:)

[Anoi]

Had a very nice evening with the lady who as me searching for friends! Super cool lady and i hope to see her again soon.
I guess i want to monster and vent a bit about my H, cause as soon as i thought i was making some progress in terms of detachment and went to have a relaxing weekend, my head pulled me back in. Instead of feeling stable and concentrated on myself i spent quite some time having enraged disputes and conversation in my head with my H.
I am civilized and respectful when i am around him, but inside i am so offended, so hurt and i have so much anger towards him... I don't like it, don't like those feelings, they don't add anything positive in my life or in my emotional stability.
As of this moment i am 100% disappointed in him. I mean one thing is to put up with all his BS, when he at least gives back some love and appreciation.
But him saying he has very high standards for him and anyone around him, when he never met even a minimal standards of anyone actually, omg, i mean the EGO!
Yes i fail here and there, make mistakes, stumble, fall, cry, but i am moving forward. He is just sitting on his ass, becoming worse and worse and talking about how he is amazing and his high standards.
I talked with one of his friends and honestly he doesn't give much of care to what is going on with my H. Another friend he hates. I will soon see the 3d friend and i am sure i will learn once more that my H is not the best friend. But he thinks that he is very nice person cause everyone just put up with his BS.
He had a burst of energy for one day after our talk, did some things around the house, but now he is back in front of the monitor, lifeless and useless.
Why do i even care? Why do i live with the person who claims to hate himself, but actually thrives in completely unfounded high self-esteem and just keeps hurting everyone around him?
So many whys and resentment, so few answers...
Just need to vent... just need to wake up in the morning and do one more step forward, after all i am doing good!:)

[Anoi]

Today he saw me crying, wasn't my fault though, i just couldn't stop after visiting my psychiatrist. She has that attitude of move on, and i did a little riot, cause really i don't want to move on, i don't want the divorce, i don't want that independent life and all that bs, if i wanted it, i would do ot in the first place. So i cried and told that i will still do it, but i know it will not make me happier.
So H said " Do you want to share?" and i said no...
He said " I am here if you would like to share" and i just looked in the car window and tried to calm down for 20 minutes or so and then just started talking about other stuff.
What good would it do if i would share?
You ruined my life, you broke my heart and you treat me like shi... yeah, i don't think this type of sharing would help me to calm down.
I guess it's a week of my broken heart and my anger and resentment. I took good 10 minutes in the morning to say hi and i didn't hug him good night for the first time, just rubbed a little bit on the hand like he does. It hurts tremendously - that lack of physical contact, but he is accepting my hugs, not participating and it humiliates me every time. Well this week.
And i hate hate hate all those who says that i should divorce him and him who thinks that, though not saying for now. They don't know, he doesn't know too. I know. We had a good marriage, we were happy.
We can be happy again if he pulls his head out of lalala land.
Anyway, this is just another day, another step, another bs and it will pass too.

[Anoi]

He is so afraid of any confrontation he can't fire someone who's been "helping" with his parents house.
So when it comes to divorce or trying to kick me out again, ofc he can't say it. He can only discuss it with his EA and she puches him to do it, to take action, though she doesn't want to be with him, apparently just trying to be a "good friend"... Well, she brings nothing but pain to both of us and he can't see it and will not see it.
Just an observation... of a catastrophe that is my life.

[KayDee]

He is so afraid of any confrontation he can't fire someone who's been "helping" with his parents house.

Yes, this is familiar. This, I guess, is what very avoidant people could address to make their lives more fulfilling. In that they can express their needs, without fear, and hopefully get some of those needs met. This is not your fault. You did not make an avoidant man. You probably kept him on a even keel for a long time.

As to you psychiatrist telling you to 'move on' - is this the right person to support you at this time? Someone (not a psychiatrist) said that to me, very early on, and I felt, well, insulted. Yes, I am able to move. And I move at my own pace. Too soon for these words, there's no magic bullet. Yes to not ruminating and wallowing (if possible) but also yes to finding a calm centre focused on one's self for as long as is needed. You are doing so well Anoi - your strength is obvious in your posts.

[Anoi]

Yes, this is familiar. This, I guess, is what very avoidant people could address to make their lives more fulfilling. In that they can express their needs, without fear, and hopefully get some of those needs met. This is not your fault. You did not make an avoidant man. You probably kept him on a even keel for a long time.

As to you psychiatrist telling you to 'move on' - is this the right person to support you at this time? Someone (not a psychiatrist) said that to me, very early on, and I felt, well, insulted. Yes, I am able to move. And I move at my own pace. Too soon for these words, there's no magic bullet. Yes to not ruminating and wallowing (if possible) but also yes to finding a calm centre focused on one's self for as long as is needed. You are doing so well Anoi - your strength is obvious in your posts.

Yeah, he always was afraid to say No, until he has to scream it and hurt ppl for no reason. I was the one saying No to ppl, was and is the excuse to say No and so on. Well for now his slowly boiling to go again on his patern and scream no at me. With the same success rate he can scream it to the wall.
I'v made some progress as i see it. I didn't detache, but i got fed up a bit with accepting his terms and conditions. When it comes to hugs and so on it's his private business, but my life is my private business and i am doing as i see fit.
Yeah, i am not even close to being ready to move on, i don't want to divorce him and i don't want people telling me i should, including him, by the way.
I think one day i will want it, but right now is not the time and place for me. I have enough on my plate without those talkes.
Well i think she is part of my process, i need to hear her and i need to hear myself too. The truth is in the middle, haha:)



Long weekend ahead, i have my own plans, weather is nice. I did move some projects of mine this week, so it's not lost. I found my very unstable calm spot and trying to stabilize it, cause i like where i am emotionally in the last couple of days, so at least i know it's very possible.
My ankle is acting out though, will get MRI results next week and hopefully understand how to get back on my two feet, i really wanna do some sport-ish stuff and holding myself back until i know i will not harm myself more.

[MadLuv]

If it were me I would get a therapist that whether your thought process on moving on or not in their opinion is off, that they allow you to come to that. My therapist I am sure thought I was insane for still caring and not putting myself first, but she in those times gave me ideas to understand myself and encouraged things to get through, but always allowed me to get to where I needed on my own. 

At one point when I felt I could handle her to maybe say things that months before I couldn’t, she said; I trust that you will figure it out. You always do. They are kind of like a detached friend that has no opinion one way or the other because they aren’t personally involved in your life before. They don't know the players . There is something safe about that. If you feel your getting direction that doesn’t align with where you are , change. Look for a better fit. It’s you time!!

[Anoi]

If it were me I would get a therapist that whether your thought process on moving on or not in their opinion is off, that they allow you to come to that. My therapist I am sure thought I was insane for still caring and not putting myself first, but she in those times gave me ideas to understand myself and encouraged things to get through, but always allowed me to get to where I needed on my own. 

At one point when I felt I could handle her to maybe say things that months before I couldn’t, she said; I trust that you will figure it out. You always do. They are kind of like a detached friend that has no opinion one way or the other because they aren’t personally involved in your life before. They don't know the players . There is something safe about that. If you feel your getting direction that doesn’t align with where you are , change. Look for a better fit. It’s you time!!

There is a difference between therapist and psychiatrist, but yeah, she has her own opinion and i have my own, i prefer to hear that opinion even if i hate it, because in all honesty i don't know who is right, but i know, i am the one making decisions and taking steps.
It's that time of the process, when no ine is really sure, neither him, nor me. Unfortunately i have to admit to myself that there are many flaws in our union and i am working on myself, but i don't think he will ever work on himself. I keep seeing all the bad in him getting worse and all the good dissappearing.
I question everything and sometimes i come to the conclusion that he is not the right person for me, even if i love him. It's very hard to accept and admit. And it's not all the time or a made decision.
I don't like this process, don't like going through this questions, but i have to question everything in order to move forward, cause i know that is one thing i 100% need to do.
So i let all the voices be heard and after all i am in the very beginning of this jorney, only God knows where it leads...

[MadLuv]

I agree. You have to  work through it.  Therapist, counselor, psychiatrist…they are there to assist where they can, but ultimately it is your journey. You are so early on and it is just such a hard thing. Honestly, seeing the bad really helps you to get through. Making excuses for them doesn't.  Sounds like you have a good start on getting through this mess.  The pain that first year and confusion is like nothing else. I didn’t realize feeling that much emotional pain was possible and I lpst a daughter. I wish you the best

[Anoi]

I agree. You have to  work through it.  Therapist, counselor, psychiatrist…they are there to assist where they can, but ultimately it is your journey. You are so early on and it is just such a hard thing. Honestly, seeing the bad really helps you to get through. Making excuses for them doesn't.  Sounds like you have a good start on getting through this mess.  The pain that first year and confusion is like nothing else. I didn’t realize feeling that much emotional pain was possible and I lpst a daughter. I wish you the best

Thank you for your kind words and i agree that it's a lot of pain and in the end we decide how to get through it, but it's such an impossible state of life, that it pushes us to get better ...
I noticed that there is a light for me, if before i was expecting only the worst, now i have some positive to look for in my life too, which is a good and big change. One day there will be more light than darkness for me and i am working towards it.

[Anoi]

Seeing MLCer up close makes me realize how little impact i have on what is going on with him.
As the anxious person i always think not only the worst, but also that it's my fault, or responsibility, or it's about me somehow.
But those mood swings, which are so obvious, that monstering towards other people, that despair that i see in him, they help me realize that i have nothing to do with it.
Yesterday we played together and it was all fine, out of a sudden he started to be very sad and just didn't want to continue.
He keeps monstering about his friend at the same time planning to see him and spend some time with him.
He switches back to how we talked/we before, when he feels guilty for his behavior and i see how much of that nice, actually comes from feeling guilty and that he just can't stop.
I noticed the same thing as many of you - if he gets closer it's a sign that he will make two steps back right after.
I try to keep my cool and be consistent while he has his ups and downs, it helps me feel better and i believe it in a way helps him too, cause he doesn't have to deal with my emotions every time he takes the "wrong" turn.
I don't want to have a cold war at home, i don't want him to be a stranger, though i understand that i am only 50% of this and he makes his own steps towards shutting me out and monsters in his head about me. But reacting to this nonsense doesn't bring me any good mood or pleasure, keeping calm and moving forward does, though.

[MadLuv]

I had a MLCer that when I got to close to the truth or talked in any way about my pain had  crying breakdowns about “you don’t care how I feel”. I was so baffled at the time about these. Now looking back it was complete manipulation to get me to back off. They are escaping from  feeling bad and any accountability makes them feel bad.  There is no doubt they feel horrible for what they do or did, because if they didn’t they wouldn’t have to lie and cheat.

You will find little trickle truths in things that are said and done. One that sticks out my XH said when I asked why did he have to disrespect me? He said, “I think I was disrespecting myself” That is so true, but not without disrespecting everyone in his life.

I think their actions of unaccountability in itself became proof that somewhere deep inside the person we knew is still there and  does know what they have done is wrong.  That their actions are and do go against their morals and character. What  we are seeing now is someone created so they didn’t have to accept who and what they have become.  That’s how I have come to see it.  You seem to have a pretty good handle on what’s happening and what not only triggers him, but you. It’s all so very hard. You being so early on are doing great.

[Atari25]

I think their actions of unaccountability in itself became proof that somewhere deep inside the person we knew is still there and  does know what they have done is wrong.  That their actions are and do go against their morals and character. What  we are seeing now is someone created so they didn’t have to accept who and what they have become.  That’s how I have come to see it.  You seem to have a pretty good handle on what’s happening and what not only triggers him, but you. It’s all so very hard. You being so early on are doing great.

Shame is a focus on self, guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is “I am bad.” Guilt is “I did something bad.

I think for someone going through an MLC - it's shame

[MadLuv]

My XH showed both guilt and shame. They are all unique, but with similarities. It is all baffling.

[Atari25]

My XH showed both guilt and shame. They are all unique, but with similarities. It is all baffling.

My wife will rarely take any blame for anything. It's all shame and she is running away from us. I am literally the opposite, I always feel like I did something wrong when things go bad. Probably a bad mix.

[MadLuv]

We have all done wrong. That’s marriage. You recognize and work on those, but when someone takes no responsibility for their side of the street there is no where to go. Acknowledge what you can on your end, but know that you did not cause this. Grown mature adults talk and work through it.

[Anoi]

We have all done wrong. That’s marriage. You recognize and work on those, but when someone takes no responsibility for their side of the street there is no where to go. Acknowledge what you can on your end, but know that you did not cause this. Grown mature adults talk and work through it.

I think that is my main issue with what is going on, that is what raised the red flags and made me wonder if it is MLC - inadequate behavior of a immature person. He doesn't give me any chance to talk and work through it, more to it, he doesn't do it himself, he just wants to escape and live a new life.
That is not what normal adults do in their relationship, they don't hug you and love you one day and then dump all the hell on you the next day.
A lot of us discovered OW/OM, that is their escape plan. Another things that amazes me in my particular situation is that he would rather keep his EA than his marriage. I would understand if it was actual relationship that bring a lot of joy, happiness, positive in his life, but it brings him only misery. Still it's more valuable, cause it answers his desire to escape the life he had.
I don't know if he feels shame, a lot of guilt, thats for sure. But i am not interacting with mature adult... just a trapped teenager with all sorts of issues, who found himself in a grown up situation.

[Atari25]

We have all done wrong. That’s marriage. You recognize and work on those, but when someone takes no responsibility for their side of the street there is no where to go. Acknowledge what you can on your end, but know that you did not cause this. Grown mature adults talk and work through it.

True but if there is a mental issue blocking the ability to discuss things, I think the MLC combines for a very toxic mix.

I am sure my wife loves me but she can't be with me with what is going on in her head. Her new single friends have convinced her to leave and she did it. @Anoi a new life really is the escape IMO.

[Anoi]

We have all done wrong. That’s marriage. You recognize and work on those, but when someone takes no responsibility for their side of the street there is no where to go. Acknowledge what you can on your end, but know that you did not cause this. Grown mature adults talk and work through it.

True but if there is a mental issue blocking the ability to discuss things, I think the MLC combines for a very toxic mix.

I am sure my wife loves me but she can't be with me with what is going on in her head. Her new single friends have convinced her to leave and she did it. @Anoi a new life really is the escape IMO.

Yes, but you would think it takes a terrible marriage with sooo many problems to get people to the point of such a painful decision, but no, most of the people i read here are honest, loving spouses, supportive of their wifes and husbands even in such tough periods of life. Still we are the first in line to blame and our marriages are the first to be dissolved, just so that they can have their dreams come true. That is sad and stupid.

[Anoi]

I am so sorry i can't detache, i don't know how. The pain is too real even when i am somewhere else doing totally different stuff. I am so sad as soon as i am alone...it's during those days when he works and he comes 1-1 and a half hour later that i feel it the most. I know he is with her.. there.. i imagine all sorts of badmouthing me and discussion about his future awesome life, how he stays there till the last second she is at work, just to spend that second with her, how after he is sad that it is time to come home to me... how every time he sees her it's so obvious to him that he has to destroy our marriage.
It's very sad and brings a lot of pain all that imagination...
It just makes me so desperate... i just want to lay down and cry, cause there is no point of fighting for this marriage... he doesn't love me anymore and there is nothing but sadness and deep loneliness  left for me:(

[MadLuv]

I’m so sorry for your pain. My only advise would be to embrace it as it is the only way through it. Time is the other. There just isn’t a quick fix from  the pain. The first year is beyond devastating and painful, the second year you start to have some relief and the third year you become adjusted to the reality. That doesn’t mean you like it ( although some do) but you accept where you are and  start to live your life the beat you can.

It’s just such a painful journey. I had to have many friends to be able to pick up the phone and just clear my head with. I am forever grateful for that.  I have so much empathy for everyone that has to feel this pain. 

[UrsaMajor]

I am so sorry i can't detache, i don't know how. The pain is too real even when i am somewhere else doing totally different stuff. I am so sad as soon as i am alone...it's during those days when he works and he comes 1-1 and a half hour later that i feel it the most. I know he is with her.. there.. i imagine all sorts of badmouthing me and discussion about his future awesome life, how he stays there till the last second she is at work, just to spend that second with her, how after he is sad that it is time to come home to me... how every time he sees her it's so obvious to him that he has to destroy our marriage.
It's very sad and brings a lot of pain all that imagination...
It just makes me so desperate... i just want to lay down and cry, cause there is no point of fighting for this marriage... he doesn't love me anymore and there is nothing but sadness and deep loneliness  left for me:(

\What you are describing here is NOT "detachment" as is usually defined here. What you are trying to achieve here is apathy and that is a totally different thing.
The thought processes going on - "I know he is with her," "they are saying all kinds of nasty things about me," "his life without me is awesome," are all what we call "Monkey-braining" where your mind is capable of imagining all kinds of horrible scenarios (the vast majority of which are MUCH worse than reality) and is like a run-away train. There are various ideas about how to get that under control, ranging from redirecting your thoughts to something else that is pleasant to wearing a thick rubber band on your wrist and giving it a good snap whenever your mind starts to go down the rabbit hole of Monkey-braining.

Detachment is regaining control of your own emotional well-being regardless of whatever emotional statte your Mid-Lifer is in.  This takes time.

As far as apathy goes, "the opposite of love is not hatred . Hatred means that you still have feelings for the person. The opposite of love is apathy where you simply no longer care about the person one way or another.... "

Food for thought....

[Anoi]

Well yesterday i got what was coming a long way.
He wants a divorce.
He never ever will be with me again  no matter what i do.
I am mean awful person, our marriage was a mistake from the start.
He is very sorry for hurting me.

[Treasur]

I am very sorry.
Is he intending to file? Or is he expecting you to do so?
I would encourage you strongly to take legal advice asap bc understanding the legal and financial implications for you where you live can make a big difference for you on the other side of this.
That won’t remove your hurt and shock but it is important to give you the best options for how you move forward from here.
Please don’t let any of his words touch you deeply right now. People say things in this kind of situation that are unkind and unfair; it doesn’t mean their opinion about you is the truth. I’m sure you are not perfect - who is? - but this is a situation he has created and chosen, not you, and it is not your failing but his. That can be hard to remember when you are hurting and if they are blaming you, but it’s important to try.
But I am very sorry.

[KayDee]

So sorry Anoi - although we all know, one way or another, that the marriage we knew died at BD, the word 'divorce' is still a shock. Such a hard severing. I get it. I wish there was a magic formula for not getting emotionally triggered by someone else's crisis.

I am mean awful person, our marriage was a mistake from the start.

If he tells himself this then he is not the mean and awful person doing all this.

He is very sorry for hurting me.

Thus, if you were such a 'mean and awful person' he would not be sorry for hurting your, right?  Here we see the confusing waffle of the crisis person.

Remember your earlier comment - he is the drowning man. Keep swimming toward your healing.

[Anoi]

I am very sorry.
Is he intending to file? Or is he expecting you to do so?
I would encourage you strongly to take legal advice asap bc understanding the legal and financial implications for you where you live can make a big difference for you on the other side of this.
That won’t remove your hurt and shock but it is important to give you the best options for how you move forward from here.
Please don’t let any of his words touch you deeply right now. People say things in this kind of situation that are unkind and unfair; it doesn’t mean their opinion about you is the truth. I’m sure you are not perfect - who is? - but this is a situation he has created and chosen, not you, and it is not your failing but his. That can be hard to remember when you are hurting and if they are blaming you, but it’s important to try.
But I am very sorry.

I have no idea what he intendeds, because i said it straight to his face i am not signing those papers, it's his divorce and i am in no way helping him have it.

I consulted the loyer early on after BD, pretty mych my best option is to settle. I am in no dhape to satlle or sign or mive on.

Well i for the the most hurting was when he said that he will never be with me, no matter what i change or crisis ends. He was very sure. Not even i glimpse of hope. Makes me feel like an idiot to have some...

He went today to work and wrote to me that he is sorry for yesterday and everything and he is truly sorry. It's nuce, but empty words that will not change a thing.
He asked if we can still be friends after, a told him i don't want such friends...
Holding on. Will get better  step by step.
Though i knew it, i snooped their discussion and it was just a matter of time, it still hard to accept  especially that it will never be...

[Anoi]

So sorry Anoi - although we all know, one way or another, that the marriage we knew died at BD, the word 'divorce' is still a shock. Such a hard severing. I get it. I wish there was a magic formula for not getting emotionally triggered by someone else's crisis.

I am mean awful person, our marriage was a mistake from the start.

If he tells himself this then he is not the mean and awful person doing all this.

He is very sorry for hurting me.

Thus, if you were such a 'mean and awful person' he would not be sorry for hurting your, right?  Here we see the confusing waffle of the crisis person.

Remember your earlier comment - he is the drowning man. Keep swimming toward your healing.

Well yesterday i guesse i was mean, i just talked about what i think about his OW, lies to me and everyone else, his lavk of desire to even hide it a bit, everyday he puts it straight to my face for months and denies that EA is cheating. So i got pissed off and told him who i really think he is and that i am profoundly disappointed in him.
Today i took my wedding ring off. I don't want to be mattied to this guy anymore. It's just hard to figure out whats next for me in my life, but i think we are done. During this time i thought a lot about valid points that he did about our marriage and how we are different as people. And though i disagree with that those reason necessary should lead to divorce, i k now that he is less than 50% of what i would like to in in my man. So a long road ahead  for now i am completely smashed

[Anoi]

Oh, btw,  he doesn't think he has an MLC, he says he does, but it's something else in his head either than what it is. And marriage problems are not connected to it.
Another wonderful news that EA is not cheating! He admits openly that he is in love with other woman, spends time with her, buys presents for her little kid, but nooo, he doesn't cheat:))))

[Anoi]

Lol, yeah. When he is filing? He is not in a hurry and not filing for now.
I can still stay at home
He just got mad because i demanded definitive answer ( i didn't, he discussed it with OW so i pushed to hear) so he said how he feels in this moment.
He said many angry things that he regrets.

And i said i am not sure i want to be with him anymore and that i would much rather prefer to stay away from him while the crisis is in, but we don't have this option for now. And that i am not signing any papers, cause i still believe in our marriage.
So it was a good calm talk. I guess i got much bolder  in what i am saying to him. I pointed out many things in our marriage that had not been worked at on his side and yeah i was honest when i said i have no idea if any of us will want it or if he is right and we should go our separate ways.
He demanded to have no time limitations on his OW thing and i said whatever, cause honestly - whatever. After the whole divorce talk i am past that idiotic relationship and my jealousy about them. I still hate it, i just can't change it or fight it.
I have my own very uncomfortable questions to him in this marriage and a lot of work to do, to be able to actually get out.
It really hurt me when he said we had nothing in common so i called him out on this bs. Don't know why... just because it did hurt, i freaking participated in his every interest and hobby. He didn't in mine. Who should say we have nothing in common, him? Really? No way! So he apologized for some things.
All of it doesn't matter, moving on, just journaling.

[Anoi]

Today is one of those days when i want to run. I honestly envy those who could move out or kick their husband out. I don't see anything in him except of a lying, cheating boring idiot. My moods change but in general now that is an idea of who i am living with.
I am unsuccessful for now in my efforts to find a job.
I have major problem with my ankle+ this week H had to call ambulance for me, though everything went well and i spent only several hours there and this problem i can deal with much easier than my ankle.
I am lonely, depressed and lost. I lost all hope for reconciliation, because there are two people in this house now who don't want it at all.
H started to ask me if i am okey, apparently no matter how hard i try to fake smile my real mood shows through the mask.
I try to tell myself that i will work through this, find a job, move out and forget that he ever existed, will be happy again. But as for now i am nowhere near it, i have some bad days.
H working hard for his future new wife, stopped smoking weed ( though he says it's a pause), tries to eat healthier and now tries to quit smoking. The problem is, when he does it for well known reasons it doesn't make me happy instead it just irritates me and tells me i should run away from this "new" him as fast as possible.
After our last talk he started to be a little bit closer in terms of physical contact, but again i couldn't care less, cause its just a phase of the show i don't want to be a part of.
I am Very bored whith him - nothing to talk about, nothing in common. He wasn't very interesting to start with, but now, with no sense of humor and constantly inside his head he became really really boring.
Instead of trying to be open he changed his password everywhere and hid his vast porn collection. Just puts the mask on and plays it nice.
I just want to get away and i want to cry, because it's over. There was one person in this marriage who wanted it, but now it's truly done.
Yeah i can't say that i have apathy towards him, that will take time. For now it's pure hate and resentment.
Just journaling and looking for my way out. I will find it. I hate waiting and unfortunately major life changes take time, but at least i do what depends on me.
He mentioned in our last talk that "he could have her", so i guess that is what he is waiting for and hoping for, that she will surrender and they will be together. Well good luck to them both, they worth each other.
Also i would really like to start daiting, but i understand that for now i am so deeply hurt that i will just ruin anything good that will come my way. Just not ready yet, hopefully soon.

[Happylight]

I'm so sorry you feel so badly.  I understand wanting to run--the trap of being the "responsible one."  Maybe the detachment will help with some of the pain.  Try to do something for yourself.  A walk, a bath, a coffee, a pedicure, something.  Do you have any support at all?  My biggest support has been in an unexpected place.  My elderly neighbor lost her husband the week before bomb drop.  I have known her for 16 years as a neighbor, but didn't know her well. I felt badly for her and started asking her to walk with me.  I ended up sharing with her, and it turns out her husband had a MLC and affair --she stood for her marriage and they were married for 20 more years.  She has helped so much--so keep an eye for the angels that are not who you think they might be.

[Anoi]

I'm so sorry you feel so badly.  I understand wanting to run--the trap of being the "responsible one."  Maybe the detachment will help with some of the pain.  Try to do something for yourself.  A walk, a bath, a coffee, a pedicure, something.  Do you have any support at all?  My biggest support has been in an unexpected place.  My elderly neighbor lost her husband the week before bomb drop.  I have known her for 16 years as a neighbor, but didn't know her well. I felt badly for her and started asking her to walk with me.  I ended up sharing with her, and it turns out her husband had a MLC and affair --she stood for her marriage and they were married for 20 more years.  She has helped so much--so keep an eye for the angels that are not who you think they might be.

I have support, but it seems there is never enough support to keep me above the water. I actually got a deep mlc understanding from a person who i never thought of. She ended up divorced with two kids on her hands, but she said right away that she is sorry for me and understands me, we taljed a bit about it and she clearly does understand what i am going through. You are right it's surprising how we find understanding in unexpected people and don't find it, where we thought it would be.

[Anoi]

It's been only 7 years that i live in the world, where i am not independent at all, the rest of my life i could do pretty much anything i wanted and i was secure about the food on my table and the roof over my head.
Now i am not. I can't return where i came from ( war) and i libe in a country where even dishwasher needs 3 years of experience to have a job, cause pay chacks are very high, so everyone around this country is looking for a job here.
I am not the person that likes to sit and wait, i prefer to act and everything is sooo slow in here that i just feel nyself a prisoner not only in my own home, but in my everyday life in general.
It's been quite a bad time in my life since autumn, BD followed and now it's a total mess with health issues on top, sometimes i just feel cursed, it seems as soon as i try to lift my head up another thing knockes me down.
Still i am fighting through it, as i can.
It's such a nice weather here now and my head is filled with projects and i can't do anything plus i got a cold on top of it. Just a little thing but life just keeps on giving me lemons...
I am very sad because i understand that my current view of our relationship and my feelings are totally what my husband was working for since before BD, he just wants me to believe that this marriage is over and that we are wrong for each other and he shows it to me in all the ways possible... and i started to believe it is so. I hate that he succeeded and i failed to show him, that it is worth saving.

[Anoi]

I guess it's too early to say i am done, but i took my ring of in front of him, i said i want a divorce and i said i feel like in prison in my own life. I had a huuuge hysteric...but actually all of that is true.
I feel very sad for our relationship before BD, i feel sad that all the work i'v done which led me to my dream life turned into nightmare.
But.
There is no way back from what he did and said. There is no way back to regain the trust.
He faked for more than a year that everything is fine.
He doesn't love me and never wants to be with me again. It's the decision he took while i was away.
And for me it's good enough reason to move forward and count this relationship as a biggest mistake in my life.
So nothing is done, but something definitely finished.

[Anoi]

Those days were a little bit crazy. My H was in an incredibly bad depressive mood since our talk. He is completely in his head, he barely talks with me and ofc there is no physical contact. We became strangers living under one roof for real.
Maybe it's because he didn't see his fantasy woman for several days, though. Today he will, so hopefully his mood will be a little bit better.
Me... i made a huge mistake of registering myself in tinder. I don't even know is it healing or is it damaging? Even was on one date, nice guy, but no future there...have a couple more dates, but it seems to me sometimes that i have nothing to propose to those gentlemens... love and care is not enough, stable income and overal good life situation is what interests most, not to mention ideal beauty.
But at the same time it's kind of fun to just go out, recieve some complements, spend time with someone else... so as i said it's healing and it's damaging.
Next week will be very busy, i continue to try everyday to re-establish my life and do whatever is necessary to achieve something stable. At least i just don't lay down and cry it's already a good thing:)

[UrsaMajor]

<...snip...>
Me... i made a huge mistake of registering myself in tinder. I don't even know is it healing or is it damaging?

1) You are still married and, even if he has an OW, 2 wrongs don't make a right. There could also be legal repercussions and "well, he did it first"  is usually not a valid legal excuse.
2) You need to ask yourself what you are looking for on Tinder - a quick hookup to put a bandaid over the sucking chest wound you have been dealt? Revenge sex? External affirmation that you are still desirable/good enough/whatever?
3) You need to ask yourself if you are really emotionally in the position to start a new R or to get involved with someone.
4) What is your plan if one of your dates actually does arouse or show more than a casual interest?

I'll be the first to admit that external validation can be VERY seductive (been there, done that, got the scars, and NO T-Shirt) but, when we are hurting and  looking for something to ease the pain, we tend to see what we are looking for wherever we look, regardless of whether it is there or not. We see what we WANT to see instead of the "cold light of day" reality and what is really there.

[Happylight]

I think Ursa Major is offering some very good points for reflection.  You will not be able to have or start a healthy relationship if you aren't healthy first.  So, what is your goal in the dates.  I understand wanting to be noticed and wanting that validation, but as tempting as it is, that is not going to fix anything in the long run. 

[Anoi]

I think Ursa Major is offering some very good points for reflection.  You will not be able to have or start a healthy relationship if you aren't healthy first.  So, what is your goal in the dates.  I understand wanting to be noticed and wanting that validation, but as tempting as it is, that is not going to fix anything in the long run.

Well, yes and no. I'v never been healthy to start with, so no danfer there, been there, done it, ended up here and living with a poor man who is to kind to kick my ass out.
My H told me he doesn't love me, didn't have any desire for me as a woman for a long time, that he will not be with me again under any circumstances. Not only it hurts, but also it's a position you know and should be taken into consideration.
I am not jumping in any one's bed for sure, it's not who i am. I just scan the "market" to see whats available and at the same time there is no harm in drinking coffee and meeting new people.
If, and it's a huge if, someone will interest me and i will be interesting to him i will let it go forward and see where it leads.
I told my H today that i love him and i want to be with him. And it's true. It's my preference.
It's also true that he is not the only man in the world and i am not bound to be alone for years, just because he decided to quit our relationship. He didn't ask for my permission or for that metter didn't discuss with me his decisions for so long and it led us where we are. And i don't feel obligated to stay completely put near the person who doesn't love me at all according to him.
It's not vengeance, in my opinion it's just common sense to be open to something new, when something old doesn't go your way.
I changed a lot in my life already, i am not happy with those changes, but they are necessary. Still i am the same girl, who wants to make pancakes for breakfast for the man i love and the man who loves me. And i am not sitring on my ass waiting for healing, that will never happen. I just give it a try.
But again i got 5 dates and i deleted my profile for now, will see if anything cool will come out of it, i already found one guy in the neighborhood that i really liked to spend the time with in friendly way and he didn't seem to be looking for more:) so for now it's just coffee and blablabla, nothing more, nothing less.

[Anoi]

So days go by, hard days, tiring days, hopeless days, life is different every day. I am still struggling with my anxiety, i am still completely lost in what to do with my life.
H is a depressive mess, he hates our "relationship talks", cause it's getting worse every time, he is so sure about his decisions, but at the same time he sleeps very bed, because he has anxious dreams, it doesn't seem like he is very happy with his life or the state of EA, it just continues to drag him through the misery of uncertainty and our ruined marriage.
He has cycling moods, but they seem to be more and more in the depressive range. To understand that it's only the start of his journey is actually pretty awful.
Yes, sure, if his EA will turn into PA it will make him happy, but... well, i guess will live and see.
I don't like being around him much in this state, he is like a dark cloud hanging over, reminding me silently that i should free him from my presence. And i am just a little child desperately looking for live in his cold eyes, not understanding still how did it happened that from the wormest, most protective creature in the world he turned into somebody who looks at me like that. I miss him...old him, so much. For a second sometimes i forget that old him is no more and i hug him... or tell a joke, or just smile looking in his eyes and i see no response.
So i try to keep myself busy and away from him. But it hurts... it just hurts. Every day a little bit less, cause every day i am getting more and more used to this version and forget more and more how it was... how it could have been.
There is nothing positive in this jorney, it's a pure misery that i need to survive and i hope that everyone else in the world will not have to experience  this awfulness. I wouldn't wish it to the worst enemy, which i don't have.