[Rollercoasterider]

Hope, Expectations & Probability
I’ve already prepared this as two posts for the blog, but that is still in-and-out and I promised I’d respond to concerns about what I said the other day.

…the reality is that most LBSs here will probably not reconcile with their spouses.
But the goal is that through the support and education we offer, we will gradually increase those odds of reconciliation. So right now it may the odds may be stacked against, but as we all learn the best ways to Stand and interact with MLCers and focus on Self, we will have more and more reconciliation success stories. And that may be contagious because when there are few successes there are higher doubts; so when your friend reaches reconciliation, you may have an easier time believing you can or will too.

I know that initial statement bothered some of you; it’s scary.

If you are the typical LBS, after a while you will believe your marriage will not survive, often because your MLCer is just one of those stubborn ones who once he makes a decision, he won't change it. …An MLCer may become stuck, but those are the rare cases. More common is for a person to regret their actions—often when they are too late because the spouse has closed the opportunity for marital reconciliation.

One of the main reasons some of you will not recover your marriages is because you will change your mind about Standing. You may give up, feeling defeated and as though you failed (though let’s hope not) or you may change your mind about wanting to be married to your MLCer. You may also determine that your MLCer is likely to not return and though you will remain willing to consider if they are interested and you are available, you would like to expand your dating market; you want a romantic relationship with someone, even if that someone is a new person. I did not say you would not recover your marriage because your MLCer would not want to recover it.

Choosing to stop Standing is not failure.
Choosing to seek a new relationship with a new person is not failure.
Choosing to continue to Stand (as a Covenant Keeper) even if your spouse does not return is not failure.

Success comes in many varieties.

In my early days I spread the 80% statistic. I heard from a chat leader at Jim Conway’s chat that Jim said 80% of MLCers will return—or will want to return. I was unable to clarify whether it meant 80% of marriages recovered or that 80% of the MLCers wanted to reconcile—even though some spouses refused. Finally I asked Jim about that statistic and he said it was not something that came from him and he did not know where it came from. Basically it was a statistic without a source and likely was a bit of anecdotal wishful thinking. I would love for that statistic to be true—or even a higher rate. But not only do I have no evidence to support it, I no longer think it is close to the reality. Why? Standing is hard and as I said already, many of you will come to a place where you feel strong and you feel ready to stop Standing. And if the statistic is about how many MLCers want to reconcile—how was that sort of data gathered? Often those with regrets do not verbalize them and they may not even acknowledge them to themselves for many years. MLC lasts 2-7 years, but some may not admit regrets until years after that after they are experiencing the full consequences of divorce on themselves and their children.

So let’s change the odds! That is one of the goals I have for us at this site. Let’s increase the rate of reconciliation. It starts with each of you. But we need to begin at reality; the odds of reconciliation are lower than we want them to be. Right now we are still new and the Stander’s movement is tiny. The message of The Hero’s Spouse has not reached far and wide yet. The forum is not quite 2 years old—though many of you were a few years post-Bomb Drop when we started. Our rates are not high…yet. In fact right now a lot of you are basing your hope on that low rate and allowing it to destroy your hope.

***

You should already know not to link Hope with Expectation, but what about probability? Are you linking Hope with Probability so that if the odds of marital recovery are low your hope is low and if the odds are high, your hope is high? By odds I mean some set of general statistical data. Technically I don’t have that sort of data, but suppose it was out there and that 20% of MLC marriage recovered. What would that mean?

The overall divorce rate is 40-some percent.

But if you divide married couples into groups, the rates vary.

• Odds of divorce are higher for those who marry under 25.
• Odds of divorce are lower if the partners come from intact families—their parents did not divorce.
• There is a current trend for higher divorce rates among those without college degrees.
• Odds are higher if you cohabitate with your spouse before marriage.

The same is true of the general population of MLC marriages. There are different subgroups with different odds.

• Standers vs. Kick’em to the Curbers
• Standers who learn about Standing vs. Standers who have no support or resources
• LBSs who detach & Self-Focus vs. LBSs who hold pity parties
• Lurkers vs. Forum Particpants

And what about the types of MLCers? Might there be a difference in recovery rates between

• High vs. Low-Energy
• Number of alienators
• Clinging Boomerangs vs. Boomerangs vs. In-n-Outs vs. Vanishers
• Severity of Family of Origin and other historical issues
• Addictions

And what about the alienator?

• Degree of Affair Down
• Degree of Emotional Blackmail
• Addictions
• Pregnancy

And what about the MLCer’s support system…how much encouragement from family and friends (not new MLC friends) is the MLCer getting to leave the marriage?

• Family supporting MLC and infidelity vs. unsupportive
• Relationship between in-laws and LBS

This website is unique. Most people do not choose to Stand and the resources and support for Standing are thus limited. So if you include all those kick’em to the curb LBSs, you probably will come up with more divorces than reconciliations. But what about those who don’t kick’em to the curb, but also do not find this website or other resources and support. They don’t learn what to do, how to detach, the why’s of MLC and how’s of infidelity. Maybe their reconciliation rate is higher than the kick’em to the curb group, but it may still be low. Those two groups are most people. Those of you reading this are statistically insignificant, but your rates of reconciliation should still be higher than for the other two groups; that just seems logical.
But now let’s factor in the midlife range of 2-7 years. Suppose most situations show the first (tiny) signs of recovery at 3 years. Now don’t run with that number, I’m just pulling it out of nowhere to use as an example. But suppose at 4.5 years you aren’t seeing those same signs. What are your thoughts?

My MLCer is really gone.

And maybe that will be true. But if you are basing a significant portion of that thought on the situations of other Standers, you are letting someone else’s situation control your thoughts, fears and even your outcome.
How many people are going to Stand for 4 years with little to no signs of progress—or no signs after initial cycling in the first months after Bomb Drop? The longer the time since Bomb Drop, the more likely a Stander is to Fall Down or Sit Down—they are done. Should their actions affect your odds?
No, and yet they do because many of you are basing Hope for your situation on the reconciliation of others. I get it, really I do. We want to know that what we are doing is possible and seeing other marriages recover is that evidence. Many—men possibly more than woman—want to use that when determining whether to Stand or not. What’s the risk, will I be wasting my time?

I’m not even writing this to urge you to keep Standing. Stand for you, for what you want and base your decision to Stand or to Stop Standing on what you want and need, not what is or has happened in someone else’s situation. Think about some of the purposes of Standing and then determine if it’s worth the risk.

• Standing as a Grace Period
  Instead of making a decision to end your marriage now, put that on hold while your MLCer goes through the MLC tunnel and you heal.
• Standing as a Healer and Teacher
  The actions necessary for Standing are relationship teachers. You have been going through the process of healing and repair so that you do not repeat the relationship mistakes you may have made previously. … Communicating with an MLCer--or a non-MLC walk-away spouse--with the intent of rebuilding and healing teaches you how to handle your next relationship. It forces you to look at yourself and find where you need to make changes.
  (From Article: Why Stand?)

Standing is not simply about recovering your marriage. It’s about healing and re-discovering Self. Once you feel assured within your Self, you will be at a place where you are healthy enough to make a decision about continuing to Stand or not—you will have earned your way either to choosing divorce.

[Rebel Yell]

Thanks RCR.

[xyzcf]

Thanks RCR for addresssing this. For some reason, I continue to need "reassurance"..not that he will return..but that he could. Whatever causes the fear inside me, even though I think I am doing well GALing and healing and all that stuff...I still need HOPE that our marriage will survive this.

[Finding Hope]

I don't think that its possible to stand without hope. How could you if, somewhere in the back of your head you weren't doing this in part to put your marriage back together. I know that everyone says detach. I get the idea, I really do. But, if I didn't hold out for some kind of hope then what would be the point of going through all this heartache.

As much as I hear that you need to detach, gal, find your own way. Humans being what we are, we feel, hurt, anger, resentment, love. Without feeling these things, then we are not human.

I can work on being a better person, I can work on getting on with my life. I can learn to live my life without him. But as long as I love him and want my marriage to work, that's why I stand. But, there WILL be times when its tooooooo much, when I am angry, when I do feel immense pain and hurt. If I didn't feel these things then there would be no love for him, no hope that I can make a difference with my stand.

Quite frankly, when I come here to vent and say what Im feeling, it is with hope. Because without it then there is NO POINT OF STANDING. I could move on, find someone else. Not have to deal with this everyday.

And regardless of where we are on this journey, we do deal with it everyday. Especially those of us who still live with our spouses. Who look at that person, that we have loved, had children with, shared our hope and dreams with everyday.

So, galing, it takes your mind off of it for awhile, Then the reality of how, at this moment we have choosen to live is still there!!!. There when we sleep, there when we remember what it was like, there when we realize that we are standing, with hope.

If I couldn't look at my h, with the hope that I can do this. That my standing, being the lighthouse, paving the way. Being a better person, showing my love and that although he is lost, I am still there, then what would be the point?

I have made the changes that I needed FOR ME, I have better skills to be a better wife, and mother. I can stand on my own two feet. I have worked on me.

But, when I come here, tell my story, journal about the babysteps that I see, the mistakes that I make, its because I feel safe here. This is the one place I can drop my defenses, let down my guard. Not be the strong one.

At home I have to be all these things. Don't let him see the hurt, don't get angry, dont ask questions, dont poke the beast. I have to hold myself together everyday. We all do, even if we wont admit that it hurts, that is draining, that its hard.

So my friends, when I come here and Im just me. The one that's hurting, confused, drained, and I can't think straight. I come to you, my friends, my family. The only people that I know, know how this feels.

C

[xyzcf]

Confused, what you wrote sums up how I feel..you did it so eloquently and straight from the heart..thank you.

[WarriorPriestess]

Quite frankly, when I come here to vent and say what Im feeling, it is with hope. Because without it then there is NO POINT OF STANDING. I could move on, find someone else. Not have to deal with this everyday.

I agree!  People can talk statistics and negative probabilities all they want.  But for me, I choose HOPE.

[Finding Hope]

XYZCF,

 I felt that I needed to say those things because lately I don't come here because I am leary about saying how I really feel. Don't want to hear about how Im not detached. How I still looking for "signs" that he is coming out of the tunnel. I know that he's not. He's a grown man that sits in his truck all day and night, that in it self should say everything. No one in thier right minds does that.

Yesterday was hard, I wanted to come here and scream, why is he doing this to me, what the hell have done that's soooooo awfull that he needs to treat me this way. Honestly, don't we all think that?

Sure we know that they are not themselves now. That doesn't change one thing about how it hurts. We cannot go through everyday, like everything is going to work out on way or the other. You have to be thinking about it most of the time. Were living it, its part of our lives. You can detach but, you cannot ignore it. It's a cloud that hangs over us daily. The not knowing. The what if's.

That unknown, were all afraid of it. It's OK, to say it out loud. IT'S OK to feel. I lately have felt shame. Shame that others didnt' think that I'm moving on, shame that they think Im not that detached. Fact is I love him, Im standing for my marriage. And EVERYDAY, EVERY MINUTE, Im doing the best that I can with what Im dealing with right now. That is the best I can do. I am not a robot. I can't turn my feelings on and off. If I could, wouldn't I be just like my MLC spouse?

Im better than he is right now. I still feel the love, see things clearly. Doesnt mean Im not detached. If I don't deal with my feelings, the sense of loss, the hurt, anger then I too will be lost.

I've spent my whole life lost. I am found now. Doing better with what life has dealt me than I have ever done. But, dealing is what Im doing. Until my h comes out of this or life sends me in another direction, then this is all I can do for me and my family.


C

[WarriorPriestess]

I think you are doing great C!  *hugs*

And there really HASN'T been any sort of long term study done on this.  Right now it's really just speculation on our own situations based on the limited number of cases we have read about online.  We see possible trends and we infer into them.  There are so many extenuating circumstances in each individual relationship.  RCR touches on a few general ones here in this article.  Look at that as data to use to help in your own success.  Which techniques have a higher rate of reconciliation?  Which have a lower rate?  Make it work to your advantage and improve your own odds.

I strongly believe that our attitude helps to create our reality. Thoughts become things.  Think positive.  Sure, we all have fear of the unknown.  But we can still trust that in the end it will all work out.  Don't worry about everyone else's situation.  Focus on succeeding in your own.  If people want to be negative, they can do that on their own time, about their own situations.  For me, I choose HOPE.  I choose SUCCESS.  I choose to BELIEVE.

[With Hope]

There is a reason that we are all here...and that IS because we have HOPE.  Hope is what keeps us going and continuing on with this journey.
 We KNOW that there is something completely not normal about what is going on with our spouse/loved one and are trying to figure out the best way to move forward and HOPEfuly salvage our relationship and make a fresh start after this journey ends.  It is hard to know what the actual probability is because HOW would this be tracked? 

Who is out there trying to obtain statistics and really where do they go and who do they talk to? 
I think that as long as WE (LBS) are willing to work on ourselves too (mirror-work) and realize that our spouses are in MLC and learn how to best deal with this process...WE are going to increase our own odds of coming out of this and reconciling our relationships/marriages. 

As extremely difficult as it is to imagine, I continue to read and hear reports of the reconciled marriages being even better than the old marriage ever was. 
I struggle with that too, but again...HOPE that is the case in my situation and in all of our situations. 

As my screen-name indicates, "With Hope" I am moving forward. 
I have loved, and DO love my H unconditionally, and I did marry him for better or for worse. 
There are so many aspects of his current personality that I truly HATE but I can't fathom that all of his goodness is dead, but just buried somewhere inside of him. 
I know that I'm not saying anything new here, but just wanted to put in my two-cents. 

As always,
With HOPE

[trusting]

Confused,

Sure we know that they are not themselves now. That doesn't change one thing about how it hurts. We cannot go through everyday, like everything is going to work out on way or the other. You have to be thinking about it most of the time. Were living it, its part of our lives. You can detach but, you cannot ignore it. It's a cloud that hangs over us daily. The not knowing. The what if's.

That unknown, were all afraid of it. It's OK, to say it out loud. IT'S OK to feel. I lately have felt shame. Shame that others didnt' think that I'm moving on, shame that they think Im not that detached. Fact is I love him, Im standing for my marriage. And EVERYDAY, EVERY MINUTE, Im doing the best that I can with what Im dealing with right now. That is the best I can do. I am not a robot. I can't turn my feelings on and off. If I could, wouldn't I be just like my MLC spouse?

You read my mind.    I think having a live-in does make it harder to detach completely. It really does.  I know I still struggle with it, sometimes more than I think I should after almost three years post BD - those little glimpses we get of who they were as well as the constant reminders that they are not that they are not the same person right now. 

You are right, we can't turn off the feelings.  We can do our best to cope.  I think part of the healing and coping comes in allowing ourselves to feel the sadness or the anger when it hits us instead of trying to push it aside.  We feel what we feel because we are not robots, like you said.  And yes, we have that hope.