[KellBell]

Well, second thread time. Not sure how much I'll use this. But just incase, I wanted to have thread to fall back on.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11848.0

hope I attached my previous thread right.

[Standing Strong]

Following along 

-SS

[MomOfSteel]

I’m following along too.  I’m amazed at your strength through this. 

[KellBell]

journaling

His actions (or inactions) through out all of this has only reinforced my initial thought and that was- I pity him. For quitting on me. But mostly because he gave up and walked away from one of the biggest blessings we'll ever get to experience...parenthood. He walked away from girls that adored him. Looked up to him. Respected him. Loved him. Our girls weren't challenging. Never caused drama. Got good grades, had focus and no interest in the typical teenage female drama. They are sweet and kind and talented. They are amazing. And he just walked away from that.  So I pity him. And I can't imagine the feelings he'll have when he wakes up and realizes what he gave up, willingly and on his own accord.

[MomOfSteel]

I admire how strong you are.  Also your ability at this point to be able to pity him.  I always think, what if he never wakes up to his destruction?  I wish I could just be sure mine would.  It feels like the kids and I are the ones suffering.  He will miss out though.  He will miss out on their lives.  My MIL and I were talking about this and how she was recently listening to a church talk from someone who had been through this as a child.  His dad walked out on their family.  He basically said that it took to the time he was an adult and had his own kids to realize that it wasn’t him that missed out.  His dad wasn’t who he needed and he had a wonderful mother.  He realized through sharing experiences with his own kids that it was his dad who truly missed out. 

[KellBell]

I’m sure he’ll wake up. That’s not the issue.  What his choice will be when he does - thats the million dollar question…and honestly I have no clue. Will he accept what he’s done and try to be better and do better OR will he run, hide and ignore the destruction and pretend to be happy for the rest of his years. Who knows.

[KellBell]

journaling-

I used to really like the memories feature on instagram and facebook. I'm really starting to hate it now. Crazy and mind boggling how much can change in year. I find myself searching the photos for clues or little bits of something to give me insight. Nothing. I don't see anything but our happy adorable family and I'm just left with the same sadness and confusion.

[Evermore]

Hi Kel. Coming out of the woodwork to say I completely agree re the FB memory function. I also wanted to say that I almost (‘cause really, not much of this experience is particularly funny, is it) laugh whenever I read most of your posts. Because there are so many similarities in our stories. The big difference is how quickly you’ve found your stride and are moving through this so well. I’m bloody fabulous these days compared to at the start but it’s taken 3 1/2 years and ‘it’ still all slooshes around in there under the very functional surface. So I just wanted to drop by to say, ‘go you’, you’re doing fabulously. I’m following along behind you… even though I’m in front of you! Lol

[KellBell]

journaling-

I'm barely keeping my head above water as I get used to being a single parent and trying to find my place. I'm currently taking 12 credits at the university and will be finishing up my Bachelors degrees and graduating in May. I'm also working full time, fulfilling my intern credits for graduation (20 hours a week), coaching my D10's softball and volleyball teams, serving on two community boards and trying to carve out time for me. I have our three dogs (walks, vets, car etc), our middle D has some medical issues I'm dealing with. Oh, and I'm trying to schedule and manage a move next month. And despite all of this and feeling tired and overwhelmed...I can see that I'm in a better place than my xh.

In eight weeks, I'll be done with school- graduated and have two degrees. We will be settled in our new home- settling into our new routine and finely feeling grounded ... set. My girls come over every Saturday to hang out as a family- they always bring me flowers, we watch movies, play games, do puzzles, work on projects, bake- and it always involves lots of laughter and love. I really do cherish every minute of it. Coaching takes so much time and energy, but I wouldn't ever pass up the opportunity to spend that time with my D10. She's amazing and talented and funny. And I adore every minute I get with her. I love being involved in the community and using my talents and resources to help better the city we live in with causes that are near to my heart. Meeting new people and feeling part of something bigger- brings with it a sense of purpose and self worth.


I miss alot about our old life when my Xh was around. But really- not alot has changed. Our lives are still full of love, laughter, adventure and family. I'm able to make decisions unilaterally, which for the most part is really nice. And my life is full of possibilities and options.

As for the xh- he's still running. First it was moving to CO will make me happy and fix this. Then divorce will fix this. Then a clean slate and no family or responsibilities will fix this. Then a new position at work will fix this. And now it's buying a house and getting out of the rental will fix this. Time will fix this. Blah Blah Blah. And that is why I pity him. Running won't fix anything. Only he can fix it. And the longer he takes to realize it- the more damage there will be to fix.

The time dynamic is a funny one. Time for me to figure out who I am and what I want and deserve all the while growing and living and paving the way for a brighter future. And time for him has the same purpose...figuring out what is causing these feelings, figuring out who he is and what he wants...however all the while he is burning bridges and relationships and causing so much destruction in the process. It's a bit of one step forward two steps back kind of deal for the MLC. Sad.

[HeavenlyFocus]

I miss alot about our old life when my Xh was around. But really- not alot has changed. Our lives are still full of love, laughter, adventure and family. I'm able to make decisions unilaterally, which for the most part is really nice. And my life is full of possibilities and options.

I feel the exact same way.  Glad you are moving forward with your life even with such a hectic schedule.

The time dynamic is a funny one. Time for me to figure out who I am and what I want and deserve all the while growing and living and paving the way for a brighter future. And time for him has the same purpose...figuring out what is causing these feelings, figuring out who he is and what he wants...however all the while he is burning bridges and relationships and causing so much destruction in the process. It's a bit of one step forward two steps back kind of deal for the MLC. Sad.

I am in the same situation right now.  I hear from my kids about the relationships that have deteriorated for my XW and it's heartbreaking.   All I can do it leave her to figure it out.   Hope time treats you well as you look to future.

HF

[MomOfSteel]

This makes me wonder how many of us were the backbones of our families.  I see so many similarities.  My life other than the betrayal and hurt isn’t that much different either.  I have been used to being independent and taking care of life.  Doing all the kid stuff.  It’s sad that they are desperately searching without having a clue what they are doing. 

[MadLuv]

KB- I do think your core family situation is ideal in an unideal situation. For as you say, not much has changed, but your X not being there. I felt most calm early days as things were still the same with my kids and myself. Unfortunately, his crazy and his detachment from the kids started ripping that apart from our lives. So, Hopefully that can remain as it really does make all the difference.

[KellBell]

Journaling-

Just a little note on spiraling and monstering. My xh and I were nice and civil last week while talking about taxes. No big blow ups lately. Just business talk- but courteous (please and thank you from him). Well, last night my d texted me saying she just heard xh was closing on his new place the same day I am. I thought "how freaking random!" So I texted him- " Hey how random is this- we are closing on the same day!". He flipped. Wanted to know how D found out. Won't share any information about where or what town let alone the address. Doesn't care what my new address is going to be. I was taken a back and just said ok. Just don't forget to update that information with the courts as we are mandated to do so in our parenting contract. Crickets.

Why would he not care about the address of his kids? And I wasn't snooping - I was genuinely interested since it should be something he would be excited about. But no- his immediate gut reaction was conspiracy and negativity. Did he think I would screw him over? Did he think I would interfere with his closing? Why and how can he think so lowly of me? I have never hurt him or gone out of my way to make his life crap. Anyway- I'm not totally sure of the story he's telling himself to get through this crisis...but in his narrative- I'm still the enemy. Probably always will be. Interactions like these make it so much easier to stay away and detach even further. What a joke.

[MadLuv]

KB- their paranoia is off the charts. Mostly due to what they have done. Some of their guilt manifesting in a strange way if you will. One day I was talking to my XH about things I wanted from the condo and I said the little table with the Spanish learning book on it.  He said, ok. Later in the conversation he asked me something else about else in the room. I said, I have no idea what your talking about. He said, oh I just assumed you would since you have someone watching me. i said what??? Why would you say that. He said, because you knew that book was on the table. I said??? You sent me a picture of that side of the room earlier, because you rearranged it and asked. The table and book were in the picture???

It’s not you, IT’S HIM!!!

[MomOfSteel]

I’ve gotten similar over reactions lately as well when most of the time we are civil.  I tend to feel like garbage after but really they are not I. Their right mind.  Mine seems a little paranoid as well. I think that because his perfect little life he worked out in his head is showing cracks they lash out.  They feel out of control so that must be our faults. 

[KellBell]

thanks ML and LB-

I think the fact that they can't be adult about the situation speaks volumes in itself. No consistency in reactions or emotions. They are getting what they want, living their life sans responsibilities and leaving everything behind to start anew AND YET...they are pissy, mean, confrontational and blame us for everything and anything. You would think that someone who is finally getting what they always wanted would be elated and calm and optimistic.

Spinning in the hamster wheel of depression and one of their own making. Hard stuff to reconcile I suppose. And if I caused as much pain and damage as he has...I'd probably run and hide and be bitter as well. How exhausting it must be to keep the mask on when underneath is a selfish coward that lacks empathy and the fundamental emotions of respect and civility.

Such a sad sad state they are in. I really don't envy them in the least.

on a side note- I posted to fb last night that "I was exhausted and that being a single parent is no joke. You feel like you have to be twice the parent to make up for the one that's missing." It's really the only thing I've posted outside the fact that our divorce was one sided and not something I wanted. And it was a draining process. I have never aired our dirty laundry or spoke about what happened to anyone outside my mom and bestfriend. Xh is not on fb but we have two mutual friends and I surmise they will mention the post to him. I didn't post to out him or blame him. It was about me and my life. And when he comes to me complaining about making him look sh&tty- my response will be...then quit doing sh&tty things.

[Evermore]

... And when he comes to me complaining about making him look sh&tty- my response will be...then quit doing sh&tty things.

Good to have those responses ready! Several years ago (right at the start, just after he ran away) my H told me that I 'didn't make him feel like a man'. I sooo wish I had seen that coming because my response would have been 'You know how you feel like a man... you act like one!'

[MomOfSteel]

Yes, play stupid games win stupid prizes.  I guess it comes down to how long they can get away with blaming other people.  It seems like some continue to blame forever while others realize that they are the ones to blame.  I would love to know what makes the difference. 

[KellBell]

An example of why detachment is VITAL to the LBS.

XH flipped his lid at me Tuesday night about knowing his closing date. I left it at that. Didn't want to engage. Then yesterday he sends me a text with a picture of a mousepad I made for his dad 15 years ago. It had a photo of his dad and his dog sitting on the beach with BFF at the bottom. It was a sort of gag gift one Christmas. Anyway- he's visiting his dad this week. Couldn't come visit his kids while they were on spring break, but made time to drive three states away and take time off work. BUT that's a different issue.

So he sends me this picture of the mouse pad and says "I was going through dad's things. I found this and I'm not sure why but I thought of you."

This coming from the man that hates me, blames me, won't speak to me about anything including the kids, avoids me like the plague and can't seem to get far enough away from me. And then sends me this. These stupid inconsistent and many times contradictory actions are why DETACHMENT is a must. I just don't have the time or energy for that. And neither should you! Anyway just another day with MLC.

[MomOfSteel]

It does go to show the internal confusion is real.  It’s so hard to not get drug into our own confusion as a result of their inconsistent actions.  Mines constantly running hot and cold thinking I’m awful one minute then thanking me profusely for something the next.  I admire your strength and ability to detach.  I’m no where near being able to do it very effectively.  I’m hoping once the divorce is finalized it will help as it should do away with at least some of the contact.  Mine cancels on the kids and then takes vacations( probably with AP) and has time for what he wants to have time for. 

[KellBell]

Left-

The confusion is completely real. He always speaks with certainty and absolutes...but their actions give them away. Actions speak louder than words...always have and always will.

Journaling-

 I was asked out by a co-worker last week...we serve on a board together and have been working on the same committee since November. He's a great guy and a fantastic dad. He's smart and kind. But I knew instantly I wasn't ready for anything outside a friendship. It didn't feel right in my heart and I knew it wouldn't be fair to him had I said yes. He knows my situation and wasn't pressuring and we had a candid talk about how I didn't think he should want any part of this hot mess right now. He totally got it and things aren't weird. And although I'm not look for another relationship...it was a boost to feel 'wanted' again. I know that if or when the time comes - there will be the option of someone else. And if nothing else, having a new friend is never a bad thing.

I also know that I care for and love my xh. And for now I'm good with that. But it had me wondering, will those feelings ever cease? Will they lessen? Will they go away completely? How will they change and evolve/devolve? That uncertainty and not knowing the future of my own feelings is kind of trippy.

[Evermore]

I also know that I care for and love my xh. And for now I'm good with that. But it had me wondering, will those feelings ever cease? Will they lessen? Will they go away completely? How will they change and evolve/devolve? That uncertainty and not knowing the future of my own feelings is kind of trippy.

I’m a bit ahead of you I think Kell and for me this hasn’t changed yet. I wonder the same thing as you. Will it change? I see people saying things like ‘I’m not sure how long I can stand if he/she doesn’t work it out soon’. Like it’s a choice to stay committed to their spouse and their feelings for them are already fading. It’s not that I think that mentality/way of being is wrong. It’s just so alien to me. If I’m honest I’m a little bit envious of it! I’m not sure when I bond with someone it’s a stronger bond than for other people… but my bonds sure do seem tenacious no matter what. Makes it difficult when your head is telling you it’s a bad job, he’s gone and not coming back, and you’d be much happier moving on and starting over but your heart is saying ‘but I miss HIM, I want HIM’. Stoopid heart.

[xyzcf]

Quote from: KellBell on Today at 08:04:39 AM

I also know that I care for and love my xh. And for now I'm good with that. But it had me wondering, will those feelings ever cease? Will they lessen? Will they go away completely? How will they change and evolve/devolve? That uncertainty and not knowing the future of my own feelings is kind of trippy.

I think it is different for many LBSers and depends perhaps on what kind of marriage you had before BD.

You were married 24 years. I was married 32 and BD was over 13 years ago.

I still love my husband. I have never stopped loving him. Even who he is now.

I also know several other LBSers whose BD was more than 10 years ago, even some who are in other relationships, whose MLCer has remarried and they have told me that they still love their husbands.

I do not think this is unusual. The "divorce" was done to us. The abandonment and rejection and betrayal was done to us. We had no say in any of it and we did not want this. We were willing to work on whatever problem was causing this, but of course we didn't get that chance and it never was a problem with our marriages anyway.

Maybe they are not in love with us anymore, but that doesn't mean that we can turn off the feelings that we have for them. There are memories and deep feelings, good and bad, that continue to impact us.

I see so many couples my age, retired, enjoying life together. I hear friends who "complain" about their husbands being in their way all the time. It was never like that with us....we had a beautiful life together.

Marriage, family, love ...I had it all until I didn't.

He continues to contact me, I enjoy when we are together and sad when those times are over. We still have a lot in common, we still enjoy the same things...but as some other long timers here who talk about their MLCer who cannot connect, when their relationships are superficial and lack any compassion or understanding of our lives..the only thing I can do is "accept" that this is the way my life is.

Life goes on. I have not met any man who I have any desire for and I think that will be the way it will be for me.

I do not think you can force yourself to stop loving your spouse. There are so many ties that join us together that is isn't possible for me to write him off. He is still in my heart.

[KellBell]

journaling-

I was talking to a friend last night. Our girls go to school together and she's known about everything from the start. She said it's crazy and her and her husband (who were casual friends of ours) still talk about crazy it is. How my xh and I were always together and he was such an active dad. Their minds are blown. Ditto, dear friend.

Through time and therapy - I've really started to narrow down the root of my anger issues.

1) You can divorce me. Leave me. But you don't do that to your kids. There is no excuse for that. No rationalizing or justification for just walking away. There is no way you can spin that and not have people think WTH.  Xh has alot of pain to account for when/if he comes to his senses. It won't be easy for him. Is he up for that? Is he willing to tackle that? Or will he run forever to avoid ever having to deal with it? It's this aspect that I will have the hardest part forgiving him for or coming to terms with. I'll never understand it. How do you hurt your kids and then live with yourself? I can't even imagine. And how lost are you that you think that is the answer?

2) I'm most angry with myself. I'm angry that I trusted him- whole heartedly. I'm angry that I believed in him. That I thought he was a good person. I'm angry that I overlooked his imperfections, because in my eyes he was more than that. No one is perfect and you love someone, faults and all. Right now- He is not a good person. A good person talks to his wife when he's hurting. A good person doesn't hurt their kids. A good person doesn't walk away from a family that loved them. A coward does. A coward runs away. A cowards shies away from consequences. A coward hides away in shame. And that's how I see him right now. As a small sad coward. I miss the man I fell in love with- who was my bestfriend for so many years. Perhaps that where the anger lies...in missing who he was and not being able to process who he is now.

My mind struggles with seeing the man I loved and trusted and knowing that's not him. He's seems like a stranger in so many ways. But on occasion I get a glimpse of a sad struggling man who is trying everything in his power to feel again.

[MadLuv]

That is the biggest struggle is the detachment of the kids and the lack of empathy for the relationship on a human level. Now I realize that is the confirmation that he is not well.
Something is seriously wrong. I honestly dont think my XH has the courage to face himself. He has said, If I have to face it I wont make it. That is a person still running.

Kellbell, you remind me of me in the first 6 month when I started. I think I was in shock and denial and everyone thought wow she is doing so good. Then I realized , oh this is really happening? Then the work and pain came on. I think you are there now. Facing the pain and the confusion. There is no making sense out of it except they were not mature enough to handle lifes issues and did not have the coping mechanisms in place to do it in a healthy manner. It really can make a sane person feel insane. Family is everything, so how could someone who once cherished it not see that? They cant see anything. They are spinning out of control with jo direction, so they pick the path of least resistance

[MomOfSteel]

KellBell, I could have written what you wrote.  I’ve had the same things running through my mind.  How they can have such utter disregard for another human that supposedly they have loved for years is not okay.  For whatever reason they can’t handle shining a light on their own demons and emptiness.  It’s hard to fathom.  We’re left with the trauma and baggage to sort through.  Recognizing and owning your own garbage gives you power to craft your own life into what you want.  They fail to realize this truth.  Until they do, they will never find what they seek.  True happiness comes from taking responsibility for and caring for the things you have stewardship over (kids, family, relationships) while the expensive toys and other people may bring momentary pleasure, there isn’t any true joy to be had.  The problem is that when someone drops their bucket of responsibility most of us tend to try and pick it up and carry it.  His bucket is not mine to carry.  I’m not responsible for it even though my natural inclination is to try and take responsibility.  I hate it and it makes me angry for me and my kids and all the others he has hurt. 

[KellBell]

Mad and Left-

It's certainly a trip.

Mad-

 I think I'm in a good place. Right now I'm at peace- or at least not spinning or cycling like months ago. I've known from very early on that there are steps and things that will have to happen. He will move away. He will buy a house. We'll divorce. He will start a new life. I know these things have to happen. He has to try all these things (new place, new house, new job responsibilities, new life) as they are part of the process. I'm as ok with that as I can be. I'm just struggling with the hurt. And I know, in the end, I will forgive him. Not because what he did was understandable or right, but as a way for me to let go. There is no way I can hold on to this for years...and I refuse to.

It's just the mind games that fill your head in late hours of the night...a flood of 'what ifs' and 'how will this all end?' I used to think of my xh all the time. I didn't want to and dreaded it in fact because it left me sad. I can go days without thinking of him now. But every so often your mind begins to wander. In the early days- when I couldn't shut off my mind, it gave me a little empathy towards what the MLCer is going through and how they try with all their might to shut off the head games by numbing and running. It can be quite overwhelming.

I think now I'm at the point of trying to fine tune. Get to a point with these last few issues - that I can quit wondering and trying to predict outcomes. It's futile and I know it. I've never been afraid of change, but I think this massive 180 upheaval to our lives was a bit too much. It's like my mind and body are in a place of acceptance and knowing I can do this and get through- push on, grow and heal. But my heart is a slow learner, I fear.

At any point, as an ex-spouse...I'm detached. I honestly wish I could cut all ties to him so we can both figure things out. It's just so hard with minor children (adult children too). Hard to be there for them as a mom, see their hurt, confusion and anger AND it not pull out my own feelings. I want to be there for them- we are an open family and talk openly about everything. I think I'll talk with my therapist about the best way to set comfortable boundaries with the kids. One of the hardest parts to navigate, I think.

I also fully grasp that the random "WTF!?" in regards to this whole situation will pop up for years. There are LBSers on here who years (4-6-10 years) later that are still wondering "What the actual heck!?". So I don't expect for that thought to go away anytime soon. And that's understandable.

[Dragonfly33]

Hi Kellbell, I cannot advise you since I am also not so new here. My BD was in 2019 will be three years ago this coming May.  You sound like you know what you are doing. Everything you said here is right. It’s indeed hard to diver the mind from thinking about the ifs and the shoulds. This is probably part of the detachment process. What I‘ve read here, once you are fully detached the ifs and the shoulds are not important anymore. What your xh is doing is not important anymore either. I also wished so many times to fully block my H from my life but still up to today, the first thing I thinl about when I wake up is him. We will be divorced soon and I‘m just now going through the financial agreement if we ever agree. Hard stuff to swallow but like you said, maybe all these have to happen to find ourselves again. Big hugs coming your way.

[KellBell]

MLC musings-

xh hasn't texted D10 in over a month and hasn't physically talked to her since his visit in the middle of January. She got a text lastnight- How are you doing? How is school? How is softball? Love you, dad

We were experiencing severe thunderstorms lastnight and the tornado sirens were going off so we had to hang out in the basement for a bit until things passed. We were down there when he texted- so D10 texted him back about the tornado sirens/warnings, hail and high winds and how we were in the basement. She mentioned she was worried, something about the dogs and some other stuff about school. It ended up being a whole paragraph with a radar picture. He texts back and hour later. "Glad your safe. Love you."

She was crushed. Literally threw her ipad on the couch, got up and left the room, mumbling "Really!? That's it!?"

And all I can do is shake my head. How does any parent just not feel or care or concern themselves with their kids? How do you not ask follow up questions or call her or comfort her? How do feel that is a normal response? How do you live with yourself having only texted less than 20 words to her in 5 weeks and not heard her voice in over 3 months? So so crazy. And all you can really do is just shake your head.

[xyzcf]

How does any parent just not feel or care or concern themselves with their kids? How do you not ask follow up questions or call her or comfort her? How do feel that is a normal response? How do you live with yourself having only texted less than 20 words to her in 5 weeks and not heard her voice in over 3 months?

This is not a normal response. Which is "typical" and why I believe MLC is a real thing...because normal fathers protect , love and value their children.

The cold and short messages are almost like an obligatory response.."there see I answered but this is all I have in me to say". I don't know if they have any sense at all of how hurtful these robotic text messages are.

Because we are the "normal" ones....we recoil from such superficial words.

As so often is the case when I read what others write about the interactions of their spouses with them and their children, the type of responses from the MLCer are uncannily familiar.

Sometimes, it is better not to hear from them at all.It feels like a "ghost" writing that has no heart or soul.

[KellBell]

Sometimes, it is better not to hear from them at all.It feels like a "ghost" writing that has no heart or soul.

My kids call him a robot. No heart or soul...just nothing.

[MadLuv]

And all I can do is shake my head. How does any parent just not feel or care or concern themselves with their kids? How do you not ask follow up questions or call her or comfort her? How do feel that is a normal response? How do you live with yourself having only texted less than 20 words to her in 5 weeks and not heard her voice in over 3 months? So so crazy. And all you can really do is just shake your head

  It is pretty script. They can barely deal with themselves. They know they should love them and be in contact, but they feel guilty  and detached. My XH messages our son much like that. S29 says he just stop responding to his dad because he said it just gets weird. I just remind S29 that is dad thinks the world of him. That hopefully he will figure himself out , but to never doubt that his dad loves him.

[KellBell]

journaling-

Reality- reality is really our friend during all this. Real world consequences that perforate that selfish illusion they create. My xh just got a real nice dose of reality yesterday from our accountant. Tax ramifications for next year (and the foreseeable future) for not having dependents and being single. How you didn't have an accountant or even do your own research into how the divorce would affect you financially is just nuts. Anyway- made my day yesterday when he texted all upset. Not that I like to see him in distress, but just having to face the reality of what he's done- even in little doses is nice.

 

[MomOfSteel]

I’m so sorry your kids have to deal with his nuttiness.  Mine sees mine regularly but they hate it because they feel it is all fake.  There is no winning with these MLCers.  I can totally relate to the tax consequences and it feels to me like a small bit of justice.  Mine flips out that he has to pay all the taxes on the support and it is significant and his deductions have gone away.  Mine doesn’t realize the full implications yet but I predict he will have a massive federal tax bill next year he’s not expecting.  I get not liking to see them upset but it feels like a small bit of Karma when they all of a sudden realize a tiny bit of the consequences that are self inflicted and they can’t blame on us.  Mine was upset he now has to give me more of his take home pay than he gets to keep.  Guess he should have thought of that before.

[Chicolynn]

Ohh I didn't even think about the taxes.. him being single now and no one to claim... just made my day!! 

[KellBell]

journaling-

something I noticed that is just baffling (as if all of this chaos isn't)- is how just so disconnected my xh and I are. And I know- we're divorced and he's having an identity crisis. But for 25 years we joked about the same things, agreed on so many things and saw things the same way. We weren't exactly the same, but just complimented each other so well and were so compatible. I recently talked to my xh and joked about something- and he didn't get it. It's like he purposefully disagrees with me just to disagree. It's so weird and bizarre. There is no way he faked his way through 25 years of laughing, joking, conversing and making life decisions. So I just find it weird to be so disconnected when we were instep for so long. Could look at each other and know what the other was thinking and laugh at the same silly things. Just crazy. And it hurts the soul have shared so much and been so in tune with someone- and now not even recognize this stranger.

[Zion]

Right! I wonder the same! How did it feel so easy with this man for 21 years then… done. Most married people didn’t seem as compatible and I felt lucky. That all changed when the alienator entered the picture. 

[KellBell]

journaling-


Contact with the children:

He's still incredibly inconsistent and only texts our D10. It's been 3+ months since his last visit to see her. The last text he sent said something like "I miss your smile and happiness." Which I thought was sweet for about 5 seconds. Then I thought...but not enough to come see her? Or call her? Or have her in your life? 

Something my daughter mentioned the other night really upset me. D10 said that she was going to facetime her dad that night. I said that's fine- what are going to show him or talk about? And she said she didn't know. Just that it had been a longtime since she had seen his face. The last time he visited she asked him why he doesn't talk or text her much. And he replied "I'm waiting for you to text me."

This rubbed me the wrong way for a number of reasons but mainly- 1). He's the parent in that relationship and he's placing all the responsibility of keeping up that relationship on a ten year old. WTF!?  and 2). Talk about manipulation. He hurt her. He left her. And yet she's the one who is supposed to keep risking being hurt by reaching out again and again? How does he see this as ok?

I try to stay out of his life and his crisis, but it's really hard when it effects my children.


and on another note. My bestfriend was in town last weekend and we were talking about what I thought my life would be like in 5 years or ten years, was I ever going to remarry etc. And I said I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure if I would ever have that familiarity and closeness with someone again. That bond that comes with sharing 25 years worth of experiences. And she said - "well you can. You are only 42 and your next marriage could last even longer than 25 years." I think that was the first time I thought about it and that I can absolutely have another long term relationship. That I'm young and still have a lot of life yet to live. And that life doesn't have to be alone or less than what I had before. So that was comforting in a way. And funny that xh is thinking his life is almost over when really we have so much more left to live.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I try to stay out of his life and his crisis, but it's really hard when it effects my children.

This needs to be a firm boundary that he either commits to consistent time with your daughter or no time with your daughter. As I have said, boundaries are to protect you and your family-not punish him.

When you think of motivation and reward systems, there are consistent and intermittent reward. For example, after a month of work, I get paid. Every month. The system is fixed and consistent. It provides security.

The intermittent system is like a slot machine. There is no regular reward. It could come at anytime. This type of reinforcement is actually damaging and creates issues for your daughter.

I would consult and expert in this area and take immediate action. This is for your daughter emotional health and stability.

This is all tough, but your children deserve order and security in their lives.

((((Ready))))

[HeavenlyFocus]

and on another note. My bestfriend was in town last weekend and we were talking about what I thought my life would be like in 5 years or ten years, was I ever going to remarry etc. And I said I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure if I would ever have that familiarity and closeness with someone again. That bond that comes with sharing 25 years worth of experiences. And she said - "well you can. You are only 42 and your next marriage could last even longer than 25 years." I think that was the first time I thought about it and that I can absolutely have another long term relationship. That I'm young and still have a lot of life yet to live. And that life doesn't have to be alone or less than what I had before. So that was comforting in a way. And funny that xh is thinking his life is almost over when really we have so much more left to live.

Yes KellBell, we do have so much more time to live.  I also am not sure where I will be in 5 to 10 years, but I am open to all possibilities.   For now, I know I am not ready to date anyone but that could change.   You will be ok and will find a healthy relationship in the future if that is what you want.  I also agree with Ready about have firm boundaries regarding visitation.  Not easy when you are dealing with a broken MLCer but hoping your XH can find some footing to have some relationship with your daughter even it's limited.   

HF

[MadLuv]

KB- I am older at 59, but one of my friends lost her H to a sudden heart attack after years of MLC and him just coming out of it.  She is now in a relationship with a man she had known for decades as friends and she has never been happier. She said, I could have 30 years possibly with him still. So, she didn’t go looking. A friendship just evolved. She is so lucky as she knows his history already. Anything is possible

[MomOfSteel]

I am sad for your D10.  It’s absolutely awful he would try to shove the responsibility for their relationship off on her.  As far as future relationships I think you are so right.  There is a lot of time left.  To me it feels scary to trust someone like I’ve trusted my H all these years.  I don’t want to be alone, but I don’t want to open myself up either, at least not anytime soon. 

[KellBell]

HF, Mad and Left-

I'm definitely not looking right now. I know I have some personal stuff to process and more healing to do before I bring someone else into my life. And I'm with you, Left, I think the trust part is going to be a tough one to get over. Learning and allowing myself to trust someone else with my heart and emotions. And then learning to trust myself- my judgement and discernment of a prospective partner. I think alot of it will come with time, more healing and growth. It's hard to see past the damage and ramifications of what has happened. But I do think as we progress further on our paths- things will be clearer and easier. We can't forget to forgive and be kind to ourselves. Know our worth and really see it. And know we have so many options and a future full of potential. 

[MadLuv]

Of course your not looking. Because, you are healing yourself and your rational thinking knows you are not ready and that should not be the priority .I feel the same! 

[KellBell]

So xh decided to come back for another retirement on Friday. Kindly asked him multiple times to please plan these things- as three of the kids are adults and have lives. And our youngest is super busy- and our weekends are usually full because I work fulltime and have school all week.

The conversation consisted of denial, playing the victim and selfishness. Fun times. But I recognized it for what it was in the moment, stayed calm and didn't react.

Towards the end of the conversation- I said it would be nice if you took our D10 overnight on Friday so that I could go out. He replied "perfect." And then about ten minutes later sent a text saying "You surprise me that you go out. You kept me in the house." I will honestly say it took all my will power not to spew a response. Because I can say wholeheartedly- I never 'kept' him in the house. WTF. I wanted to say "Ummm. I was the one with all the friends and entertained. Who exactly were you going to go out with? We had four kids at home and lived in the middle of nowhere on an acreage. It wasn't exactly easy to get away. And..." But I didn't. Because he is still in blame mode. He knows he could have talked to me. Asked me out more. Made plans to do more. Get away. HE DIDN'T. But it's just easier to blame me. Sucks to suck my dear. I'm going out this weekend. 

[xyzcf]

"You surprise me that you go out. You kept me in the house."

You did really well not to respond to this. However, the words do bite, even when we know they are ridiculous.

The lack of contact with D10 (and perhaps with the other kids as well) is appalling but very typical. You are doing really well at focusing on yourself, your family and not engaging in conversations that will amount to nothing

Have fun going out this weekend!

My daughter, son in law and his mother and I are meeting up in Florida for a couple of days over Mother's Day weekend. My daughter lives in another country and I have made her birthday, Christmas and Mother's Day as times when I shall see her, as well as other times. (COVID really was difficult since I could no see her for 17 months!!!!).

He has not spent Father's Day with her, I would say since 2003. Maybe once. Hit and miss for her birthday and Christmas, maybe sees her twice a year.

I'll take my life over his anyday.

[MadLuv]

He knows he could have talked to me. Asked me out more. Made plans to do more. Get away. HE DIDN'T. But it's just easier to blame me

In married life we get in our routines. I think in their MLC they blame that routine on part of their boredom in life they need to escape from. Then they see we are out doing things and think….oh now she not boring??? SHE was NEVER boring or the problem. It is another fine example of how skewed their view is on why we are the issue. You did great, as always!!

[MomOfSteel]

MadLuv I know this isn’t my thread, but I really needed to hear that.  My H acts surprised every time I have actual plans.  How dare I?  Really, I’m realizing my feeling like I had to wait for him was holding me back.  He would get pouty if I went to do things when he was working (which was always).  Now that I don’t consider him or his feelings I’m doing more and surprise, it makes me happy.  I socialize more with other people where before he wouldn’t feel like it, I go places I wouldn’t have because I don’t have to wait until he makes the time.  Suck it to my MLCer too! 

[KellBell]

journaling-

Xh came into town yesterday. The plan was for him to help our youngest set up her new ipad and then they were going to go do something. Instead he came over and sat on the couch and the three of us conversed for a few hours. D10 and him went through photos on his phone- laughing at memories, we talked small talk about his new house, life, my schooling etc. The conversation was light and easy and comfortable.

This was my take away from those 2 hours.

1). I have decided I don't want to be his friend. It's weird. Too much history and baggage. I look at him and I still see my husband. My bestfriend, lover and confidante. But know he is also the person who doesn't want me. Doesn't want our life. And just quit on me- walked away.  He hurt me- my heart and soul are scarred. And having him sit on my couch laughing, sharing stories and talking like a happy family was bizarre and surreal. It's not something I want right now. I wish I did. We've always talked and were close with everything. But the familiarity of the situation was too much. So for now- I don't want to be his friend. I will be civil and cordial and kind and treat him like any other distant family member. But that's it.

2). He's broken.  I watched him as he sat there on the couch, our daughter curled up at his side as they looked through photos and videos and laughed. And I just thought- how can you NOT want to experience this every day? How can you just leave and go months without facetiming her or hearing her voice or visiting her? How can you NOT want this amazing kid in your life!?

3). Depression is a mask. And although through most of the conversations he seemed to be genuinely happy and laughing and actively participating- every so often for the slightest moment, you could see the mask slip. You could see his a subtle change in his face and his eyes. In the not so subtle moments he was wallowing. For example, I mentioned I liked his pants (a pair I had bought for him a few years ago but he hated wearing- so basically giving him crap for finally wearing them) and he said "Ya. I only have like three pair - and all my jeans are shot." I asked him if work was keeping him so busy he couldn't make it to the store to get new ones and he replied "It's hard to find clothes that fit. I'm just fat and a loser." I suggested using the altering service at one of the stores I know he shops- and he dug in further saying He's just a loser. Even our D10 looked at me like 'wow- what a shift in the conversation. To lighten the mood our D said "Clothes never fit me either (she's tall and super skinny- jeans are a nightmare) So I'm a loser too."  At that point I said no one is a loser and moved the conversation onto something else. But it wasn't the only time in the visit that he said things like that. I also heard "I'm a failure. I've failed at everything" "I'm just a judgmental jerk" "Maybe I should just die too- it would probably be better" It was just weird to hear a light conversation take a 180 to that.

4) And finally- I don't want compliments from him. He was never overly gushy with me in our marriage. So lastnight when he said he was proud of me for finishing school and admired me and I was amazing. And that I looked cute with my glasses on. And asking about my boyfriend - I told him I don't have one and he said 'that's so weird- you should, you are amazing.' ---- I just didn't want to hear it. Partly because I don't trust him enough to know if it was genuine. I'm guessing asking about the boyfriend and hoping I have one - is to either take some pressure off him in a way OR to just prove "See you didn't care about me- look how fast you moved on".  Either way- it's not healthy to be in any kind of relationship with someone and be questioning the motives of their compliments. It's insane.  Not only is it insane - it causes me to monkey brain. Not that I was thinking "Oh - he's being nice to me what does that mean."  But the rationalizing of 'If I'm so cute and amazing- then why wasn't I enough for you, you stupid sh*t!'- that kind of monkey braining. So ya.

For me...I need to just keep it strictly business. Continuing working on myself and let him continue twisting on his own. But I will say it was nice to be able to step away and really see everything last night. I wasn't consumed in the moment and was able to mentally separate myself and see/dissect the incident in real time. Having that control was empowering. Not losing my cool, not getting roped into his pity rants and not feeding his ego or trying to fix things for him. Big steps forward for me.

[xyzcf]

Depression is a mask. " I'm just fat and a loser."  "he dug in further saying He's just a loser." I also heard "I'm a failure. I've failed at everything" "I'm just a judgmental jerk" "Maybe I should just die too- it would probably be better"

Thank you for sharing an insight into their state of mind. We have often called MLC the "mother of all depressions". In reading what you wrote, it struck me, how much pain is the MLCer in that they believe these things about themselves to be true? Yet, their depression prevents them from resolving these issues..instead they run, they are searching for something that will take away their pain.

Our pain is "different" and contact with them is very hard. Because our memories of what once was, and what could be are very clear in our heads and the disconnect between us is so wide. The inability to "speak" our words and be heard, we learn pretty early on that it just isn't worth it.

Many have asked me why I don't "ask" Mr. xyzcf what he wants from me, or why he keeps doing what he does. I have asked, early on, and getting the deer in the headlights gaze or having him turn on me eventually made me realize that verbal communication doesn't work with these MLCers.

One thing I found helpful that my therapist said to me as I would debate back and forth should I have contact or not (in your case, you have a 10 year old so it would be difficult to cut all contact) and she gave me "permission" in a way, by saying that I can change my mind from one day to the next. This is in my control and I do continually evaluate why I engage in any contact at all with him...allowing me to come from a place of control.

And this is pure gold:

For me...I need to just keep it strictly business. Continuing working on myself and let him continue twisting on his own. But I will say it was nice to be able to step away and really see everything last night. I wasn't consumed in the moment and was able to mentally separate myself and see/dissect the incident in real time. Having that control was empowering. Not losing my cool, not getting roped into his pity rants and not feeding his ego or trying to fix things for him. Big steps forward for me.

[Curiosity]

KellBell, these are some really great insights. Of course, anything that anyone posts here is valuable if it helps them process. Certainly, I processed a lot and I cycled rapidly between overanalyzing W, then feeling like I had stumbled onto true detachment, and back again. I’m not sure that was valuable for anyone other than me, but it helped me work through my stages of grief and into a much happier, healthier, more self reliant place. But this post of yours - those are the kind of thoughts that should almost be required reading for an LBS. Recognizing that MLC is depression - that is hugely important. Similarly, recognizing your own boundaries, and owning your right to not be friends with your xh - it’s absolutely essential to respect your own feelings that way. It doesn’t matter if he wasn’t a monster, it doesn’t matter what he wants. What’s important is what moves you forward on your path, whether that means there can be a friendship now, or in 5 years, or never.

[KellBell]

journaling-

Xh left this afternoon. A couple of takeaways. Friday night - the plan was to pick up our D10 and meet the other two Ds for dinner. (Oldest twin D still won't see him or make time with him.) He called at 4:20 and asked if he could come over and get D10. I told him we just got home, but that I would quickly get her stuff ready for the overnight they had planned. 5 minutes later he was at the house. He sat down, small talk. D10 was ready and he kept talking. I told him he better get going- that he was going to be late. He pulled out his phone and texted other kids that he was going to be late and to go ahead and order appetizers. He stayed and chatted some more. Before leaving he looked at me and said he felt like crying and gave me a hug. Then I walked them to the door and he gave me another hug. Didn't say anything.

In that moment, I could see how lost he was. He's hurting and lost and broken- and it's taking it's toll.

I saw him again today and he stayed and talked a few hours before heading home. The conversation was light and easy, but every so often his depressive talk would creep in. He was yawning and I asked if he wanted an ice coffee or energy drink before he heads back. He responded with "I'm exhausted. I yawn all the time. D10 and I slept for 10 hours last night and I still feel wiped." I asked if he was having problems sleeping or if he has looked into that. He said "I don't know." sighs then says "Maybe I'll just fall sleep while driving and roll into a ditch." D10 was within earshot. And I had had enough. Before he left, I pulled him aside and asked to him please not talk that way. That he has family that cares about him. And that it's not healthy for D10 to hear things like that." He agreed.

In all, it was strange visit. For the most part it was so comfortable and easy. But I was acutely aware of a few things.

First, he complains...alot. About the weather, traveling, employees, schedules, etc. 90% of today's conversation was him complaining. Such a drastic change from Thursday or even Friday. I think he was starting to feel overwhelmed with it all and the darkness creeped in.

Secondly, he's hiding and running. He said as much. He said he hates being around people. He like being alone. Everything and everyone stresses him out and living alone away from everyone (family and friends) gives him peace.

Next, I could visibly see how torn he is. That he's starting to see what he's missing here in regards to his kids. Lots of hugs and I love yous. He became quiet as things were wrapping up and kept finding things to postpone his leaving. And what's so hard about that is that he told his kids he doesn't ever see himself moving back. So he's still actively choosing to be away from them. And actions speak louder than words.

Lastly, I realized I don't want this version of him. He really is a downer and sad. He complains and wallows. It's not healthy for him to feel that way...but I have to think of my children. And this depressive version of him is not good for them. They need someone stable and mentally ok. He's not there. It's hard to watch. It's hard not to fix or even help. But like an alcoholic or addict- he needs to realize he has a problem and seek help on his own terms.

Anyway- he's scheduled to come back for D10's softball tournament in June. I hope he does, but I'm not putting pressure on him to give more than he can right now. I'm upset and disappointed he's not present more, but after this weekend I can see a little better what he's going through. And I'll give him a little latitude.

It was nice to be able to talk to him. Visit and have him in my presence without him thinking I was the devil incarnate. It was nice seeing him smile. I guess for now these little things are enough.

Although I am guessing he will go dark for a few weeks now. I'm sure this was an exhausting weekend for him. Lots to process. I sure hate depression and MLC

[WHY]

I think you’re doing great.  An inspiration to us all.  Hang in there Kell. 

[MadLuv]

He sounds pretty typical. Complaining about it everyone , isolating and self destructive talk. Yet, cycling and missing family. Feel I lived the last 2 years of that. I hope he can refrain from that talk around your kids. You’re right, they do not need to hear that. My XH would make comments on boarding flights, hopefully it will crash. It progressively got worse to ….maybe I will just bleed out etc. Horrific I’m glad you let him know that was not acceptable around D10

I agree with you. That negativity and being around the whoa is me is very hard . Sounds like you have a good handle on it. Carry on !!!

[KellBell]

I found these links while researching depression. Interesting to hear first person POV and how depression feels and why they act the way they do.

There are two articles, each has three parts.

Why Depressed Men Leave  https://www.storiedmind.com/self-esteem/why-depressed-men-leave-1/

and The Longing to Leave   https://www.storiedmind.com/anger/the-longing-to-leave-1/

links to the other parts are at the bottom of the article. Interesting reads for information. Sometimes I search for explanations when the WTF!? gets to be too much. I usually just end feeling sad after reading them, but it helps reset the notion that this all them. And nothing to do with me. Anyway - thought I would share.

[beyondblessed]

Kell....it has absolutely nothing to do with you.  You, like the rest of us here, are just collateral damage.  Still, recognizing that fact doesn't make the fallout any easier or less painful.  It hurts so much because WE see what's going on, but WE can't fix THEM.  It's frustrating and heartbreaking at the same time.  That's why it is always suggested to live like they aren't coming back.  Very, very few will ever have the courage and inner strength to do the work that needs to be done to right all the wrongs they've been compulsed to do.

[WHY]

It's hard to understand that if you showed these articles to a MLCer, that they wont click and at least ask themselves, "is this maybe whats going on?".  I mean, they hit every checkbox.  It's beyond coincidence.  How come they have to deny it?

[Thunder]

WHY I've said this before, my XH has a very high IQ.

When I read an article on MLC that fit him like a glove.  Surely he should be able to see this was exactly what was going on.  I know it is said not to show them articles on a midlife crisis, or even bring it up to them, but I honestly thought he had to see it.  He's not stupid.

You know what?  He read it and got very irritated and said..."That does not fit me at all, you are just not understanding."

I was floored!

Never again did I bring up MLC again.  They won't relate to any of it, they just think we are in denial.

I would not recommend it to anyone.  Keep it to yourself and share your thoughts here where people understand.

[KellBell]

why- I think when someone is struggling to make sense of things and not feeling like themselves and questioning their lives (which has to be completely overwhelming)...the last place they want to look for fault or blame is inwards. At the point of BD, in their minds, they have tried every other option, considered every other source of unhappiness and already placed blame. So much easier to leave than to look at themselves. That's why they have to do it their way and figure it out on their own terms and in their own time. After BD, you are the enemy and would you ever take advice or criticism from the enemy? nope

beyond- I'm not sure I agree. The gaslighting was insane for me. I was questioning and doubting my last 25 years. Questioning every significant moment, memory and decision. How could I not see? Maybe I was a terrible wife? How am I not loveable? I'm a very pragmatic person and by researching depression and MLC and reading all I can- it has helped my brain make messy sense of this chaos. I realize it's not my fault. My xh has told me it's not about me. And so I have taken myself out of the equation. The not knowing, not understanding and lack of explanation is what I feel slows the processing from taking place. As humans we want to know why, how, what , where...very few people I know just accept consequences blindly. So that's why I research. When I have a particularly low day (which are few and far between these days) I need that confirmation that it is his problem. It sucks, but it's his issue and his choice on how to recover. And realizing that is huge step in the 'moving on' process. It also helps me detach. Why waste my time and energy on something I can't help, fix or influence? I guess everyone has their coping mechanisms. But for being less than a year out- I think it's working pretty well for me.


I journal alot in the hopes that other lost LBSs read something that may help or gives comfort. Every situation is different, yet the same. Just trying to share what I've gleaned from my experience.

[KellBell]

journaling-

My oldest D (one of the twins) works for the family business. They had a conference to attend this week. D is accomplished and amazing and was receiving compliments and being commended by others at the conference. Her dad stepped in and would diminish those in a weird way. Like he was rationalizing her success. She called me from the airport to decompress a bit. And I just feel sad. Like how low can your self esteem be that you have to take away the attention your daughter is receiving? He should have been beaming with pride, extolling his own words of praise - instead he took that away from her. I'm not sure if it was just due to insensitivity, selfishness or being passive aggressive since she is the one daughter who won't talk to him. Either way, it makes me sad. Sad for her...to be treated like that in public by your dad. And for him...to be in such a state that he felt that was acceptable. Regardless, it was inexcusable and just adding to the pile of sh*t he'll have to someday face if he wants a relationship with her.

[KellBell]

journaling-

its been about 7 weeks since my last post. Xh came back this weekend for youngest daughter's softball tournament (the irony of the weekend holiday is not lost on me). Some things I noticed.

**I clearly see now the problem was never me or our marriage. This weekend went by and we fell into our comfortable relationship. Laughing, joking, sarcasm, physical flirting. As the weekend progressed and more of the kids came over and joined in- he began to pull away. Became distant and more irritable. Less affectionate with me. You could see the personality shift- like having everyone together was literally draining him.

**He came in on Friday for her first game that evening. Showed up early in the day. Greeted me with a big hug and complimented me on looking great. Met back at my house around noon- had lunch and small talk. Followed me around. He seemed relaxed and like my old husband.

** He was super helpful this weekend. Helped with dishes, packing the car and coolers, hauling all the softball gear around and a stellar dad. UNTIL the older girls came. They are not going to forgive and forget his actions easily. And they are letting that be known. It was hard to see my family in such a way. Lots of conflicted feelings from me. But like I said above, you could see the tension from the girls weighing on him. Pushing him away again.

A few weird things to note.

The plan was for him to take our D10 back with him to his hotel after Friday's game. I had plans (a date actually). While I was out, I got a text that his hotel cancelled his room and that he wasn't sure what to do. Apparently there is big conference in town and rooms were expensive and hard to find. I told him to go down to the guest room and he could stay over and have sleep over with D10. I KNOW I KNOW- WTH, Kell!? Strangely, it worked out fine...we had to leave at 7:30 for the first game Saturday. NO questions or inquiries into my evening or what we did or where we went. Just acted like it never happened. I'm pretty sure he overheard me talking with the older girls later in the day about it. He never tried to find a room for the next night. I looked online- just curious and there were plenty of available rooms at a reasonable rate. So just weird.

He played the perfect dad role pretty well at the tournament. Was it all an illusion? A mask? Just for show? I don't know- but I had plenty of friends coming up to me asking if we getting back together...that's how normal we seemed as a family. It's crazy. By this morning though- he couldn't get far enough away from me. Still paid me compliments and was kind, but avoided me physically like the plague. I could also seem him tensing up, trying hard to keep that mask on.

Referred to us as 'we' several times throughout the weekend. Sadly there is no 'we' as 'we' are divorced.

Told my D10 that he moved away for work. He'd probably move back in a few years. What!? Talk about a flip-flopping and not keeping stories straight.

He talked a lot about himself, his family (dad and Brother) and work. Lots of personal detailed information which is a huge change from his last visit when he was pretty tight lipped about his new life. He never asked about me or mine. What I do, where I work, school, nothing. And still a lot of self loathing and depression talk.


ANYWAY- what I really want to note is that once you detach and see the MLC for what it is (a personal crisis) then life gets so much easier. It lifts a weight to know there's nothing I could have done; I couldn't have loved him more or been more understanding. It was never about me. I am still taking this time to grow and learn and invest in myself, but that I was more than enough and would have given more than enough to make things better. But he quit on us. And I can't do it by myself.

The path to healing and recovery is not just one step. It's a staircase. And all of these little lessons and realizations lift me up another step. Until eventually I'm out of the dark hole that BD threw me into. Every step matters, needs to be acknowledged and felt. So onward I go.

[forthetrees]

Wow. Kudos to you for your clarity and detachment. May the steps onward continue to bring you more peace and joy.

[MadLuv]

KB - good journalling!!
 I would say detachment realization would also be that he quit on himself and not “ quit on us” as true detachment is you realize like you said it has nothing to do with you/us. He is ME ME ME right now. IMHO.  It does seem him giving compliments and joking etc  is some positive  movement and not surprising that he tensed up and changed as the kids came into the picture. They are so unsure of their feelings and they do ( at least my xh always was/is) aware of not wanting to give false hope and feels almost not at home with who he should feel at home with.

Thanks for sharing your day!!! You are doing amazing

[KellBell]

XH left to head back home mid morning yesterday. We had a really good text exchange basically all afternoon. I'm guessing the 6 hours back gave him a lot of time to think about the weekend. I would have stopped the exchange, but it was calm and deep and intentional. We talked about so much stuff. Usually I hate texting important conversations, would rather have them in person or over the phone. But this allowed us to take a minute before responding. Digest what was being said and really think about it. I think that also helped keep the conversation calm. Lots of emotional baggage was unloaded. I could tell at times he was distraught and upset, but he stayed calm and really put thought into his responses. A year ago he would have just quit responding. This time he asked 'why do you feel that way?' and 'was it really like that?' and even admitted that there was a lot he was misremembering.

I know this is a positive step in our journey to heal if we are to ever to have any kind of relationship; friends, coparents etc. Stuff does need to be said and understood. And apologies need to be made and proven. It's all part of the process. He's definitely still spinning but not as bad. The fact he stayed in the conversation (at times it was difficult to hear and say things) is huge. He was open (truthful who knows) but open enough to share things/feelings I don't think he would lie about. He's starting to admit to his own failings. Not close to admitting all his faults, but hey- baby steps.

Anyway- just wanted to note that progress of some kind is being made. I know MLC is one step forward two steps back. But movement is still nice to see. In the end I just want him to figure it out for his own well being. He has such a long ways to go.

[Curiosity]

KellBell, that’s a great development… the main reasons for avoiding relationship talks are twofold, I think. First, it can be hard as the LBS to respond instead of reacting emotionally, at least until some level of detachment is attained. Second, the MLCer can get defensive and angry and can lash out and/or use the LBS’ reactions to justify their own actions. It seems like none of that happened here, and you were able to have a reasoned, reciprocal conversation. And most importantly, it didn’t put you in a place of having expectations of continuing on that same path. Still… I feel like, whether or not reconciliation ever happens or is even on the table, these kinds of conversations do ease the way to eventual reconnection in some form. Often, I think that a lack of reconnection (in situations where the LBS is open to reconnection at all) is because the MLCer waits too long or causes too much destruction, and is too ashamed to even try to make amends.

[Evermore]

KellBell, that’s a great development… the main reasons for avoiding relationship talks are twofold, I think. First, it can be hard as the LBS to respond instead of reacting emotionally, at least until some level of detachment is attained. Second, the MLCer can get defensive and angry and can lash out and/or use the LBS’ reactions to justify their own actions. It seems like none of that happened here, and you were able to have a reasoned, reciprocal conversation. And most importantly, it didn’t put you in a place of having expectations of continuing on that same path. Still… I feel like, whether or not reconciliation ever happens or is even on the table, these kinds of conversations do ease the way to eventual reconnection in some form. Often, I think that a lack of reconnection (in situations where the LBS is open to reconnection at all) is because the MLCer waits too long or causes too much destruction, and is too ashamed to even try to make amends.

I think this is very insightful from Curiosity.

I feel that the adage ‘you can’t love them back, but you can hate them away’ has merit. It’s not just the damage they do through this that can influence outcomes (and of course in some situations they do SO much damage that the LBS is completely justified in saying nope sorry, and walking away). But also the damage we do. You COULD, Kell (as you know) have told him to bugger off. You COULD have used the opportunity of a ‘talk’ to let rip on him. You COULD be vindictive and cold. It takes bravery and strength and maturity to instead really listen and respond. It’s a gamble to be vulnerable with people that have hurt us so deeply. But, for me anyway, and it appears for you, the risk is worth the possible reward (at least for now, that might change).

And I have to say (as I’ve said before) that wow, you got to this place of strength waaaayyy quicker than I did. I’m very impressed with how you are handling everything and I’m following along still for inspiration.

[WHY]

KellBell, that’s a great development… the main reasons for avoiding relationship talks are twofold, I think. First, it can be hard as the LBS to respond instead of reacting emotionally, at least until some level of detachment is attained. Second, the MLCer can get defensive and angry and can lash out and/or use the LBS’ reactions to justify their own actions. It seems like none of that happened here, and you were able to have a reasoned, reciprocal conversation. And most importantly, it didn’t put you in a place of having expectations of continuing on that same path. Still… I feel like, whether or not reconciliation ever happens or is even on the table, these kinds of conversations do ease the way to eventual reconnection in some form. Often, I think that a lack of reconnection (in situations where the LBS is open to reconnection at all) is because the MLCer waits too long or causes too much destruction, and is too ashamed to even try to make amends.

I think this is very insightful from Curiosity.

I feel that the adage ‘you can’t love them back, but you can hate them away’ has merit. It’s not just the damage they do through this that can influence outcomes (and of course in some situations they do SO much damage that the LBS is completely justified in saying nope sorry, and walking away). But also the damage we do. You COULD, Kell (as you know) have told him to bugger off. You COULD have used the opportunity of a ‘talk’ to let rip on him. You COULD be vindictive and cold. It takes bravery and strength and maturity to instead really listen and respond. It’s a gamble to be vulnerable with people that have hurt us so deeply. But, for me anyway, and it appears for you, the risk is worth the possible reward (at least for now, that might change).

And I have to say (as I’ve said before) that wow, you got to this place of strength waaaayyy quicker than I did. I’m very impressed with how you are handling everything and I’m following along still for inspiration.

KellBell is a rockstar IMO.  I wish others could learn how to have that kind of strength.  I know I didn’t have it in the beginning.   But I’m getting there. 

[Evermore]

Why… we all can learn to have that kind of strength! 😉

[MadLuv]

Well, all I can say is I had many calm and seemingly rational conversations with my XH where he seems to have some clarity and early on that can be all not real. Also if you think it is progress early on that can be expectations, so only just a reminder that progress isnt always progress, but they can sometimes respond or say what they think you want to hear. Proceed always with caution!!
I hope it is forward progress!!!!!

[KellBell]

Madluv- I'm not 100% sure what it was. But I know I had no vested interest or expectations and still don't. I'm detached enough that I'm not sure if I'm standing or just caring/worried about a lifelong friend that's going through something. There are no clear cut timelines for MLCers and none for us as LBSers. Some of us move faster than others. It doesn't make us better or worse and doesn't guarantee any better of an outcome. I'm just doing what I need to in order to heal and move forward. We need to quit comparing our situations on here. All of our paths are similar but so different. None of our marriages were the same, the catalysts weren't the same, the behaviors aren't the same - they are just similar enough we can all empathize with each other.

And I know this isn't him coming out or clearing his mind or the fog, it's just movement. Movement deeper into the fog- maybe. movement towards peeking out- maybe. Either way it's movement. And movement is necessary for progress. So I'll take it.

My xh hurt me. Part of my soul may never recover. But for me- I couldn't let him break anymore of me. So I detached early on. Detaching is not a switch that's flipped. It's a process. We say we're going to detach and then it takes time, effort, practice and commitment to fully get there. I'm not fully there and don't pretend to be. But I'm actively detaching everyday. It's like sobriety - a decision you have to make and face everyday. Sometimes you slip and start over. You learn along the way. It's all a process. A journey. And we all travel at different speeds on different roads.

I'm sorry any of us are having to suffer through this. And I don't journal to give false hope or think I'm some example. I just know in my darkest times- I wanted to know everything and anything to get me through those first months. And maybe someone will have a situation similar to mine- and know they aren't alone.

[MadLuv]

KB-
Oh, I agree.  Everyone’s path is there own. I was just giving my insight as my own not as a judgement or statement of yours. Just that I could or thought things that then weren’t. I just learned to always proceed with caution and also I feel the same as being hurt and most likely only looking for friendship with mine mostly for our kids, so very sorry. I can tell by your response you took offense. That was not would ever be my intention. I feel sometimes when people give their insight it is taking wrong and it is just another view from their angle. I only want to give back and have peace also, so will refrain from commenting.

[KellBell]

madluv- no offense was taken. I just don't want anyone thinking I'm preaching or implying success when I'm not. I'm fully aware I'm just out of the gates in this race. This is just my story- for better or for worse. And my 'not comparing our stories' was meant for the whole forum. Every aspect is so different when comparing people's stories. MLC is so complex and personal - and when we are suffering as LBS it is so easy for us to want to latch onto someone else's situation and see the similarities and not feel alone. And if there's success in someone else's situation- we hope to make our situation fit. Which is fine...but as an LBS we also need to understand that our paths and our MLCers paths are so different. They are unique and individual. So it was really just a general statement I wanted to emphasize to the newcomers. What works for you may not work for me. And what works for another person may not work for you. OR anyone. So those statements weren't directed at you. Just a general thought I have been having when reading people's posts and responses. At the end of the day, we have to do what works best for us and our situation. That's all- so we're all good!

By no means am I perfect. I let my xh stay at my house for pete's sake! And although it was fine and everything worked out...it was a boundary I shouldn't have allowed to be crossed so early in this process. So I'm still learning to navigate all of this. And it's a crappy bumpy road with lots of twists and turns. Just when you think you get the hang of things, you hit a pothole. I didn't swerve on this one. I hit it dead on- and although it didn't cause any damage I know I need to keep a better eye on things. Because a couple more of these could total my car.

[MadLuv]

Agreed!! And my comment was exactly that as well. My situation with no implications to yours. Just relating to what you stating, but mine ended up being something else. Every story is different with similarities and different outcomes. That is exactly what my comment was saying. So, we are on the same page!!

The same situation can turn out differently due to the variances in everyones story. That is the craziness of it all!!  That is why we share

[Evermore]

By no means am I perfect. I let my xh stay at my house for pete's sake! And although it was fine and everything worked out...it was a boundary I shouldn't have allowed to be crossed so early in this process. So I'm still learning to navigate all of this. And it's a crappy bumpy road with lots of twists and turns. Just when you think you get the hang of things, you hit a pothole. I didn't swerve on this one. I hit it dead on- and although it didn't cause any damage I know I need to keep a better eye on things. Because a couple more of these could total my car.

I agree absolutely with your post about each situation being different. So now I’m wondering why you say you made a mistake in allowing your XH to stay at your house? Genuine question. As you rightly point out, there aren’t any rules. Is there an OW involved, I can’t recall (which does change things)? Do you mean it was a mistake because it’s given you some expectations and/or made you feel… irky? afterwards? Because if you’re feeling fine about it, then it’s not a mistake. You did what worked. That’s all we can ever do.

[KellBell]

Ever- In the moment, it didn't feel wrong. But I think when seeing the whole picture, reflecting back this week and knowing he still has a long way to go...I don't want him having expectations. He has chosen this life. He has chosen to be separate from all of us. And don't want him thinking he can come to my home every few months and play happy family for a weekend and then leave. I chalked the weekend up to being a nice weekend free of his craziness. Nothing more. But I have no idea how I'll feel it becomes routine. And I'm not sure I'm ready to figure that out yet. Especially since we are only 5 months out from our divorce and less than a year from BD. He's just still so lost.

So that's why I'm not sure this should become routine. It has the potential to cause more harm than good at this point. Anyway- who knows. He only comes around every 3-4 months so we'll see. And on a side note- it was a bit weird coming home from a date and having your xh there. Granted it was with a friend and casual, but still. Kind of surreal.

[KellBell]

journaling and update-

MLC is a rollercoaster and my experience has been nothing but. Since the softball tournament over Father's Day weekend, xh has been in full on reconnection mode. Our D10 and I spent some time with him at his house- it was nice and comfortable. We easily fell into comfortable familiarities and there was intimacy. I'm super guarded, I was lonely and he was my husband for 24 years...it felt safe. The next day I flew out for a long holiday overseas. I wasn't in much contact, but he reached out everyday, emailed and texted.

I'm not sure where I'm at in all this. He wants to get remarried and wants us to be a family. He's telling people we are back together.

We've talked alot since I've been back. He's attended counseling with me. And has found one for himself. He's going to AA.

Some things of note-

He said it was like a switch flipped. He woke up from a dark tunnel and things were suddenly clear.
He thought he was unhappy in our marriage, but learned the hard way that things could get so much worse. He never realized what true unhappiness and loneliness was until he left.
He was distant over father's day weekend because he felt a connection to me but had thought I had moved on. He was trying to distance himself to curb the hurt he was feeling knowing he lost me.
He realizes he took me for granted.
Lots of self blame. None on me.
He has a plan of action and so far has been following through with all them.
It's hard for him to put into words what it was like. Just dark and fuzzy.
He said he thought about me all the time. Every date he went on- he compared them to me.


Something interesting- I told him this all going very fast. And that I'm going to need time and space. He was genuinely confused. He knew he wanted me back in March. I went back in our texts to see if I noticed any change around then or after. And there wasn't anything. He was still quick and short with replies. So weird. He also said my kindness and respect is something he couldn't live without. And eventhough I was kind and respectful during most of this...he knew he'd lost a big part of it. He hates himself everyday for risking that. And also having to see me move on. He could see reality and that I was moving on with my life. He didn't like it very much.

I don't know where this is going. what will happen or how we will end up. I DO know he has lot more self work to do. I DO know that I love him and want him to be well. And I DO know I will help him when I can. Other than that...time will tell.


*** I know about cycling, touch and goes and anchor checking. I'm very much aware and truthfully very happy with my life. There was a time I just desperately wanted him back. And now I'm the one slowing it down. Stepping back to be sure and not rushing. I know my life will be fine regardless of if we get back together or not. So I feel no pressure at all. I have zero expectations or hopes. I'm just riding this crazy coaster until I decide to get off or the ride ends.

[MomOfSteel]

Wow!  That’s quite the update.  It sounds like you are being cautious and who would blame you.  It seems like consistent actions over time will be really telling.  It’s interesting to hear how they describe what they are going through. 

[WHY]

Wow!  That’s quite the update.  It sounds like you are being cautious and who would blame you.  It seems like consistent actions over time will be really telling.  It’s interesting to hear how they describe what they are going through.

100% this.  Consistent action is what counts.  And over a long time period. Like a year. 

But a question for the vets here and please respond.  How do you push your MLCer back while asking them to work on themselves first and show you these consistent actions over a long period like a year (so you don’t get your heart broken again), WITHOUT alienating them or having them feel rejected and moving on. None of us take rejection for too Long.  We all have a breaking point.  what’s the best way to navigate this?

[MadLuv]

Interesting update…. And the story continues. You know the drill now and sounds like your eyes are wide open, so you will continue and see what unfolds!!

[titleholder]

Interesting to read your H perspective of the tunnel! I’m happy for you and hope that your H will continue forward.

You’re handeling everything so well so you’ll know you’ll be fine either way!

[thissucks7788]

Great update KellBell! I hope things continue to work out for you!!
B

[Imgood]

I’m happy for you KellBell and your family. Since your very first post, I have related to you on so many things, from  H wanting to upgrade houses,  cars, vacations, …to how you view him as “lost” …to how you are handling yourself. You know you got this! You KNOW you’re going to be fine, no matter how this all shakes out.

[KellBell]

journaling-

coming up on 4 weeks from since last post and things are going really great.

Timeline:

Father's day- (MY POV) I could tell he was wanting to talk with me, very comfortable together, small talk, conversations, family time. Very helpful and engaged- huge 180 from the last few years. Remained calm and rational during an intense conversation with older daughters, when before he would have lost it or just shut down and left. He stayed close to me...like a little child or puppy. Always in my space but never close enough to touch. Small bouts of flirting. (HIS POV) Wanted to be together as a family, felt comfortable with our family time and talking with me. Felt at ease and calm- something he hadn't felt in a long time. Missed his family. Wanted to talk to me but couldn't find the courage. Kept following me around to try and start the conversation but couldn't. Was afraid I had moved on. Or was over him- not willing to work past everything. Didn't want to face that reality and ruin the nice weekend. He had been feeling regret over the divorce since the day he signed the papers but felt like too much had happened to turn back now. He thought he time would help lessen the regret and sadness he felt, but it only made it worse. He found out I was starting to date and knew he was getting close to a point of no return.

July 1st- (MY POV) Flirty and comfortable. Lots of touch- hand on my leg, hugging or rubbing my back. Lots of talking- more than small talk. Started with small apologies about broad issues. I just listened. He talked alot. Loneliness and missing this man who was starting to resemble my old husband led to physical intimacy. (HIS POV) He knew he wanted to kiss me. To see if he felt something- to see if there was still a connection afraid he had ruined what we had in the past. He wasn't sure I would reciprocate. He didn't want to move too fast or make me upset. Our daughter was there- but he wanted to take me to the bedroom and just verbally unload all that he had been feeling and going through the last 12 months. How sorry he was and ask what it would take to fix us. He knew I was leaving to travel abroad and wouldn't be able to have those follow up conversations- so he put the deep conversations on hold until we could have them face to face. Emailed me and texted me everyday while I was gone. Not long conversations, but sweet messages.

Mid-july- (my pov) we met up in a town in between our two homes to talk. We talked through the night and got very little sleep before splitting ways to go back to our respective homes. He said alot of the right things, lots of self blame, no blame on me. Open about what was wrong and how he messed up. Still couldn't admit he hurt me- couldn't use those words. He danced around them in a weird way. Something I thought was strange. But much more open and communicative than ever before. Listening to me. Not butting in or trying to explain away why things happened like they did. Lots of things he just couldn't explain. Like it made sense in the moment, but now he can't even begin to fathom why he did that. (HIS POV) Wanted to explain and apologize. Wanted to help me understand and not give up on us. Tried to explain but it was hard to. Too painful to admit he had hurt me. The whole time he thought his feelings were mutual. If he wasn't happy- then surely I wasn't either. He admitted it was a way to justify the whole thing. Apologizing for hurting me would mean having to say those words out loud and then they would have meaning and be real. He wasn't ready to face that yet.

End of July- (my pov) I flew out to his place one weekend and then he came back to my place the next weekend. We talk every night, text multiple times. Things seem comfortable and nice. I'm still guarded. He uses words like I love you. You're all I want. We should get remarried. (HIS POV) he wants to get remarried. He's wearing his wedding band. He's told everyone we are back together (family and friends). Wants to start planning our future together.

Now this is where learning detachment skills become super useful. Things have been progressing amazingly well. And if I hadn't learned healthy detachment skills, I'd be moving to another state to be with him. However, I do notice small things that give me pause. I have the feeling that he's lonely- and I'm a fix for that. He wants me to plan trips and activities. He's not doing the work with the kids...is he expecting them to just fall in line if we get back together? He's going to have to face them at some point. He's still reflecting on his past alot. Not in major ways but brings up lots of memories and regrets. Has said so many of the right words and some action to back them up...but not enough. Or maybe not enough time has passed to see the actions. I don't think he fully learned how to be alone. It was scary, lonely and hard for him. And I just don't want to be the back up option he realized wasn't that bad because he couldn't hack it by himself.


Anyway- lots to figure out and I'm still guarded and taking everything slow. We are dating I guess. Which is weird. He lives a state away and we see eachother 3 weekends a month. We have visits and stuff planned through the holidays. I have no expectations and really feel level headed in being able to see this all from a different perspective. My heart loves him- but my head is rational. I'm taking things slow and listening alot. Taking it all in. I see it as a way to protect myself. The battle between your head and heart is an exhausting one. Emotionally and physically.

[Kat in the Hat]

This gives those who ultimately want their spouses back some hope KellBell. I will never forget your signature which answers a lot of questions for the people who have just joined this forum.

Wishing you all the love and luck that you deserve.

xK.

[MadLuv]

The signature was part of a comment to me from Barbie on my thread and it is a classic, so I obviously love it as as well. Glad there is movement and also you are taking things slowly. I moved my H out for 10 months and we also dated a d he moved back and then left 2 years later for a much bigger crisis. Of course I didn’t have any MLC knowledge until 6 months after the 2nd BD, so I think you are taking a good route being cautious and making sure he is fully cooked. Glad to hear it is moving along!!!!! 

[thissucks7788]

So glad to hear the update KellBell and thank you for sharing all of your progress with all of us.  Your signature has been the talk of the town, lol. Very wise, for real!   You've handled everything so well and I'm glad that things are going great for you! xo
B

[KellBell]

Yes- thank you, barbie for the amazing quote...I LOVE it and really helped me see things differently. There wasn't enough space to finish the quote or credit her. BUT yes, Barbie is amazing!

I recently read this on detaching. I think we use that word alot and it's such a broad and general term. Alot of the times it gets mixed up with coming to terms or processing all of this. But it's not. It's a tool that helps with those things. Detachment can be useful in lots of ways. And really is a valuable outlook to have on life. It's helped me with adjusting to having adult children and teenagers. It's helped with my relationship with my brother who is going through a tough time. And it really helped with dealing with my xh MLC.

Detachment

Detachment is experiencing our feelings without allowing them to control us.
We step back and look at thing objectively.
We let go and accept what we cannot change.
We detach from others' choices knowing that their spiritual work is not ours to do.
We choose how we will act rather than just reacting.
We step away from harmful cravings.
Detachment is a deep breath of peace and patience in response to unexpected anger.
We can listen without losing ourselves.
With detachment, we see our mistakes honestly, make amends, and start afresh.
Detachment allows us to be in the world but not of it.
It frees us to lead our lives with grace.

[Imgood]

KellBell - Happy to hear things have been going well!

[UrsaMajor]

But a question for the vets here and please respond.  How do you push your MLCer back while asking them to work on themselves first and show you these consistent actions over a long period like a year (so you don’t get your heart broken again), WITHOUT alienating them or having them feel rejected and moving on. None of us take rejection for too Long.  We all have a breaking point.  what’s the best way to navigate this?

You do it like KellBell is doing it, like Acorn did it, like Curiosity did it, like Finding Joy is doing it.... Each Mid-Lifer and each LBS is different so one needs to find what works best for them. Reconnection (according to RCR) is a process that takes a long time (a year or more IIRC) and is full of hard work, not a small amount of tears and pain as the scabs get ripped off and the real work of healing can begin. It is NOT for the faint of heart. Once that is done, THEN the real work of reconciliation starts....

KellBell has made a couple of VERY astute observations - 1) that she sees her H as being lonely and his return as a possible "Plan B" so she is being careful. Darn straight to be careful because she, like each and every one of us is better than a "Plan B." 2) She is taking the time needed to delve into her own feelings about the R, about her Mid-Lifer and is using that time to see if rebuilding is really what she wants, despite his making headway/progress. It is up to KellBell what amount of progress is "enough" for her to be able to trust him again, for the kids to be able to trust him again, and to meld back into a family unit....

[Curiosity]

I just want to chime in to say that Ursa and KellBell are absolutely spot on about reconnection (and Barbie has offered immeasurable wisdom as well). It takes a long time and it can be messy - even if on the surface, it looks like things are going smoothly. Because in the process of reconnecting, you test your own progress - did you truly detach and forgive and heal, or is there still a core of distrust and anger that has to be resolved?

I was definitely concerned that I was a Plan B for my W - she moved back into our home 6 months before she actually specifically said she didn’t want to be separated anymore. Everyone has their own stories and their own journeys, and each one is unique. But for me, it has taken time and consistent, open communication. We don’t dwell on the separation; we rarely discuss it at all, in fact. We have done so before and I’m sure we will again from time to time. But what rebuilds a relationship is the same thing that builds the relationship in the first place - time, and consistency, and openness. You have to be willing and able to trust the other person, but they also have to show they are worthy of that trust by being honest and reliable going forward.

[KellBell]

updating and journaling-

so we are going into month three of xh wanting to reconcile and us working on things. He still lives in another state- he has asked to move back. But I feel like he still has parts of him to fix and if he moves back I will fall into old habits of trying to fix things for him. That's not helpful to me or him. He is going to counseling and AA. We are going to couples therapy and see each other every other weekend. Either he comes here or I go there. One weekend is just us and the other visit includes D11. We both agreed that our relationship, consciously working on it and taking time for each other needs to be a priority in our marriage. So we are working on that.

D11 and I caught covid a month ago. D11 was in the hospital, vented and it was touch and go for a week. He stepped up and really came through for us. He was the person I need him to be and the partner I needed in that moment.

All in all things are progressing. I'm still taking things slowly. I don't have expectations of how he will react, behave or act. It's a strange place to be in. I do love him, but being able to disconnect and not be so dependent on his emotional state is so freeing. For the most part, he impresses me with his growth, patience and self reflection. He is recognizing and admitting insecurities and communicating better when things are stressful or upsetting. But I still see tiny slivers of the old xh; shutting down, getting quiet, frustrated etc when things get a little real. He is remorseful and apologetic. Actively trying to be better. Consistency is key so we'll see. It's still only been 3 months.

By saying I don't have expectations- what I mean is I don't set expectations for him. He is who he is and either I love that person or I don't. Either that person is worth my time and devotion or he isn't. HE is who he is and I need to decide if that is someone I want to be with. This is big for me and our situation. Because we have been together since we were 15 & 17. I expected him to grow up into this man I imagined, mature and develop into how I wanted him to be. And I see now that was unfair of me. It's ok to have expectations, but it's not fair to place them on someone else. Either they are who you want or they aren't. You can't change people or want to change people without planting some seeds of resentment. And those seeds fester and grow. I fell in love with a 17 year old boy and now I'm learning to fall back in love with a very different 43 year old man. It's an interesting time.

It's also very freeing to admit and recognize that you can outgrow someone and the relationship you have with them. I loved him. I still do. We have a history together. 25 years of ups and downs and everything in between. He is my friend. AND DESPITE all that it's ok to admit that I may not be IN LOVE with him anymore. And it's ok to admit that we had a good 25 years together- one I couldn't imagine doing with someone else. But maybe this isn't the person I need in this next chapter of my life. It's ok to explore these thoughts. Is he the person I need? Can he be the person I need? Is he what I want for the next 25 years?

My advice to all LBS is to really do the work. Look inside yourself. Dissect your marriages and relationships once you can disconnect emotionally. Figure out what you need in someone. What you want in someone. What you deserve. That way when or if your spouse comes back, you are able to step back and decide if reconciling is the best thing for you and your future.

[FaithWalker]

I am so sorry that your D had to be hospitalized and vented.  How scary for you!  I hope she is doing much better now.

Continuing to follow the reconnection.  I am glad that you are taking the time to really work this through and decide if this is something you want for your future.

[Returned]

You are very early on in your timeline, however this certainly does sound hopeful. It doesn't sound like there is an OW in the picture. You have gotten far more reassurances than I have from my xH who is much less self-aware. I realize I am in many ways very old-fashioned but unless you have another better relationship on the horizon I would encourage you to consider his offer to move back. Having an intact family is priceless for children. I would not go so far as take the offer of marriage because I think marrying an xH is more of a financial decision, and tieing yourself financially to a man in the middle of MLC is perhaps not a good decision. Being divorced protects you financially in case he falls right back into replay again. I don't see much to lose here from giving him a chance to move in and see what happens. Just don't mix your finances at all.

[thissucks7788]

KellBell- Thanks for the update. I have been wondering about you and how you're doing. Sounded so stressful and upsetting with your daughter but so glad that she is okay now!! 

 My situation is a bit different (as all of ours are) but I can relate to some of the things you're saying.  We never divorced and H was out of the house for "only" 5 months with an unrequited LO. (He's back in the house now)   One thing I did notice though-- at least for me-- it is taking time to allow H fully back into my heart again.  The damage was real and there was innocence lost when it came to our relationship. Meaning, when he did something that would be somewhat annoying in the past, I would easily overlook as this was my loving husband of 20+ years who loves me so much. Now, I saw what he was capable of and it is harder to overlook.  Also even in that short time frame, I did get used to living on my own and it was a transition to once again have him back in the house.  I will say that the relationship does have a different feel to it.  For me, especially since we were not D, I knew that I would want to at least try to put the family back together and I would regret not trying.  I am glad that I did though as I am still in love with him. He is working hard to be attentive and transparent.  I've been able to share my fears about him to him. No subject is off of the table including the LO as I don't want to rug sweep what happened. It did happen.  How will it work out in the long run?  Who knows.  I do know that I'm smarter this time and will keep my new job, new passions (joined tennis club) and friends.  I would do this no matter what though with him or someone else.

What does this mean for you? Nothing. You seem to have a good approach regarding expectations and have been really smart in how you've handled everything. But I can relate to some of your thoughts and I think it really great to see a perspective from someone sort of in my shoes.  Please continue to check in from time to time. xo

[KellBell]

Journaling-

just something I wanted to mention. There is talk about being the lighthouse or beacon of light for our lost spouses. And I just wanted to confirm and attest to this approach. I didn't necessarily set out to be a light for him. But I wasn't going to compromise myself or who I was because of him. I wasn't going to let him break me or dim my light. I didn't want him to know how bad he hurt me. I didn't want to give him the satisfaction. I am generally a positive and intuitive person who cares very much for those around me. I'm giving and inclusive and will help all that I can. He was no different. And IT WAS SO HARD to be that way with him because it felt like he couldn't get far enough away from me. He couldn't find enough things to blame me for. But I just kept on going.

I noticed after Father's Day, when we started talking more and more that he started calling me pet names. He calls me 'sunshine' and 'smiles'. I thought it might be a temporary thing, because he was never big on pet names. Maybe a 'babe' every once in awhile but never this consistent. I finally just asked him why he calls me that when he was here this weekend. He pulled me in for a hug and said that when things were at their darkest- I was the brightest light in his life. When he thought he couldn't get any lower he would find a reason to text or call me. And that despite how horrible he had been- I was kind and patient and helpful. He admitted he's not entirely out of the darkness yet but that he feels like he has a guiding light when the depression gets bad.

I knew from the beginning that he was suffering from depression- clinical. It was affecting every facet of his life and reflected in his mental and physical health and every relationship. Depression is a big part of a midlife crisis. But it can also stand alone. And I think he began to just grasp at straws and change everything he could, because things were so so bad. He was never taught self love, coping skills or effective communication. All those things stacked against us. He is just now realizing he is worth loving. He is worth my love, my forgiveness. He is realizing that he had parents that provided for him, but that weren't loving. They weren't supportive or encouraging. He has a lot of internal things to work on- lots of baggage from his childhood. But the first step is recognizing it and wanting help to change it- AND HE'S THERE.

Continuing being a light- don't let them diminish your bright spirit!

[Imgood]

From KellBell - “He has a lot of internal things to work on- lots of baggage from his childhood. But the first step is recognizing it and wanting help to change it- AND HE'S THERE.”

KellBell, this is so good to hear.

I am, a little more than two years out, of H moving out. I can only hope my H comes to  recognize and want help for his childhood baggage. I saw H yesterday. It’s been four months since I’ve seen him. It’s so sad. He looks awful. He has aged 10 years. I truly hope for his sake, he finds peace one day.

[KellBell]

Updating and journaling.

quick recap: We are 20 months from BD and about 8 months from him wanting to come back and work on things. DURING those 12 months apart...he immediately moved to another state with just his suitcase a few days after BD. He moved with no plans or a place to stay. We divorced- it's what he was sure he wanted. He gave me full custody and denied any visitation rights. SOOOO many red flags. Our divorce was final 6 months after BD. I quit talking to him. Left him alone. About 11 months after BD he asked if he could visit our daughter and attend her softball game. While he was back he was flirty and friendly which was weird. A few weeks later he asked daughter and I to come visit him for the long weekend. We reconnected and he apologized and asked us to recommit to each other. Since then he's been very apologetic and vocal about his mistakes, working on himself through therapy and AA, and really trying hard to be better. After we reconnected, he asked to come home. I said it would be better if he stayed where he was and really worked on himself and figured out what he wanted. I think it was probably the best decision, because it's forced him to really work on himself and reevaluate how he got there and how he can get back to where he wants to be.

Since my last post in October...we still see each other every two weeks. Either we go there or he comes here. We talk and FaceTime every night. We do couples counseling and go on dates every visit. We take turns planning. He still sends me flowers twice a week with something sweet and different on every card. We spent the holidays as a family and spent Christmas Day with my mom and grandparents. They welcomed him back no questions asked. Except I did over hear my grandfather speaking with him when we left on Christmas Day. He said "I'm glad you're back. I like seeing you two together. I knew you'd figure your sh*t out." To which my xh responded "I'm happy to be back too. It was a horribly dark year for me and I thank God everyday she took me back." So that was sweet.

He's been super attentive, kind and loving. We just got back from a vacation with just him and I. We had a blast. And several of the nights he would hold me and say how lucky he was and how sorry he was. I knew from the very beginning that he was having a break down. That something was very wrong and that this wasn't personal to me or about me or us. It was all about him and what he was dealing with. And I know that now, but it feels nice to be reassured from him...that it was a mistake and he messed up.

Our adult children are taking a bit more time to come around. However we all spent New Years week together at his house. And it was nice. It's going to take time to rebuild trust and fix what was broken.

Our youngest daughter and I may move out there this summer. He keeps asking me to marry him again. He refers to me as his wife. In my head I convinced myself I needed at least a year of commitment and him showing me change before I married him again. So that would be up in July. It was just arbitrary, but I needed a measure of consistency to help me judge the situation.

On my end, I've continued to work on myself. I realized that my way of appreciating him wasn't one he wanted or fully recognized. That he likes verbal praise and adoration. Words AND actions are his love language. I've realized I was rigid and very type A about our household and that made him feel like one of the children sometimes. Which I never would have intended. I've realized that marriage and relationships aren't 50/50. They are 100/100. Both have to be committed to it. I came from a broken home and no real example of a healthy marriage. And my husband came into the marriage not knowing how to parent...realizing just recently that his parents really didn't do a great job with him. We are both trying to fix those deficits together.

As far as another woman. About 5 months after leaving he reconnected with a highschool friend. The had an online romance. Only met once in person. He said she came in to kiss him and he couldn't do it. It became too real. Online it was fantasy. And the reality of it was too much. And apparently he talked too much about me. Because she kept saying- I'm not Kell. I'll never be like Kell. Which got my xh thinking... you're right. You are not Kell. Not even close. So she doomed herself. The OW are really not that great and usually a much lower standard...so keep yourself on higher level. Conduct yourself with calmness and poise and be the spouse they fell in love with from the beginning.

I guess that's all. July 4 will be two years from BD and crazy to think we may be remarried by then. What an insane two years it's been.

[JohnnyBravo]

Great to hear from you, KellBell, and great update. Thanks for checking in!

[titleholder]

Great to hear from you KellBell! You've always been an inspiration for me. It's so good to hear that you're rebuilding your family and marriage. I wish you all the best!

[UrsaMajor]

So, that huge popping noise I heard a few months back... That must have been him pulling his head out of his ... fog...

Congratulations and well done - you did you and he came around.

[Treasur]

You sound happy, Kell, and that’s nice....we all need a little more happiness going around 

At the risk of raining on your parade, what is your POV about getting legally remarried again? I can see why your xh might want to do that and I can see why you might feel that he is showing you the kind of behaviour that allows you to trust him again or consider moving to be together. At the same time, I presume a lot of things were legally and financially disentangled when you gave him the divorce he wanted.....what are the risks and benefits to you of recreating them by remarrying? What does marriage mean to you now? And more importantly perhaps, what do you think it means to your xh now that it did not before? None of us want to think that, having survived this, it could happen again....and I sincerely hope it does not....but it does happen sometimes here with (relatively) early reconciliations.

[MadLuv]

Great update KB. Sounds like you both are taking cautionary steps on reconciliation and with a early returner that is crucial. I wish I had known better I believe my story would have been different. Wishing you continued connection and hope you pop in every once in a while and continue to share the good and the bad so we can continue to follow your journey

[xyzcf]

Wonderful
Update KB and good for you that you are open to the possibilities ahead.

A good friend from HS was divorced and after 7 years they came together again and remarried a couple of years ago. Life is really good for them so it sounds like he had made it through as sone do.

I wish you the best in life together

[thissucks7788]

What a fantastic story Kell!  So glad you came here to update as I have been wondering about you and H.  You sound happy and things seem to be going so well.  Please update from time to time. 
B
xo

[KellBell]

My pov on marriage is fluid at the moment. On one hand I love him and would love to be his wife, but what does that mean? It's not security or assurance that he's not going to leave again. I don't know. I like dating him right now. But I also miss him and us being together. I'm afraid we'll fall into old habits and patterns when we move in together. I mean we've made plans and talked about how to avoid that, but I think it will always be a genuine fear. Financially I'd be better off if we remarried. I got a sweet deal when we divorced but since then, he's inherited monies and company stocks are worth more. So he's risking a lot by wanting to marry me again. Hard to say.

As for the timeline...I know they have a "timeline" for MLC. But no one's story is the same. No spouse is the same. Some wake up real quick and some take more time. Some have no interest in ever fixing themselves and will never wake up. I have no explanation as to why that is. I know that I realized early on that I wanted my husband but never needed him. And although it hurts like hell to be rejected...I'm not going to be with someone who doesn't want me. Which leads to the question or concern of reentering the fog.I fully accept that he may relapse at some point. However at this moment, he is going through the steps. He's working on himself and us. It's worth the risk for me. I'm not going to NOT try because he hasn't tunneled for x amount of time. He's realized where his insecurities stem from, he's processing childhood trauma and seeking help for addictions. He's making amends and changing past behaviors. We're more communicative. So I'm going to give him a chance. Give us a chance. And if he goes back into the fog a few years down the road...then I will realize it is what it is. And know that I'd be ok without him. I'm capable and strong and independent and have really found myself through this whole journey. I'm not the same person he left 2 years ago. I have better tools and strength. And even though it would hurt to be rejected again...I can't NOT try. I need to give him a chance to be better and be the husband and father he's trying to be. You can't grow if you're never given the opportunity. I love him and so I'll give him that.

[xyzcf]

I don’t think we can live our life “ worried” that it might happen again. “If it does” you will deal with it but there is a good chance that it will not.

As you have said, every situation is different. It sounds to me that he really does want you in his life and you love him so there is nothing that needs to be explained. 

[UrsaMajor]

"Timelines" are a fictitious way of assigning a duration to the unknown. It is like saying all children walk at one and talk at two.... Except that is not necessarily the case. Each person is different.

What strikes me is that your MLCxH is, from what I can gather over here in the cheap seats, doing the work needed to figure out what it is/was that drove him over the edge of the cliff in the first place and that, in and of itself, is a powerful indicator. Those that are on the Wash, Rinse, Spin, Repeat cycle usually do not go down that road of taking responsibility for their actions, finding out what it was internally that caused them to loose their stuff, doing the hard work of changing the patterns they have become accustomed to....

[WHY]

Kell Ive been following your story for a long time.  You're an inspiration to us all.  On behalf of HS, we are VERY happy for you!

I think there's a lot to be learned here.  Look at Kell's signature and the message she brings to the table.  Every day that goes by, I become more of a believer in fully letting them go as soon as feasibly possible. 

Well done Kell.  Well done. 

[KellBell]

Hey hey- just here to check in. Xh and I are still doing great. After a year of long distance, counseling and hard work, we’re moving back in together next month. It’s been 2 years since we’ve lived together. Such a weird feeling of being together but not like it was. We’ve been through so much. But honestly I feel like I’ve survived the worst case. And if that’s it (don’t get me wrong- it really sucked) then absolutely I’ll try again with him. We’re getting remarried in September!

Adults kids and him are still working on their individual relationships. It’s tricky and a slow process.

Anyway- I’m catching up on other’s stories. My head still spins at how crazy this all is. The support and advice from this community got me through dark times and validated me when I needed it most. You’re such good people. Much love

[zartheit]

Fantastic to hear! Congratulations to the both of you, and good luck with the future relationship. It must be a familiar and brand-new feeling all at once.

[Imgood]

So happy, for you and your family! Please continue to check-in periodically and let us know what your process continues to look like. Wishing you all the best!!

[FrenchHusband]

Your story is great ! Thanks for sharing it and congratulations to have been so strong and persistent. I wish the best to you and your future ex ex husband !

[WHY]

Kell is a hero here.  Im always blown away at your story and am so happy for you.

Congrats and I wish you many years of happiness in the future!!

[thissucks7788]

What an amazing update Kell!! Best wishes for a wonderful future ahead (and of course, keep us updated!)
B

[MadLuv]

Congratulations KellB!! I was hoping that it was all good news and it was not a disappointment . Very happy for you and your family!!

[titleholder]

So happy for you KellBell! It's so great to hear that there are cases where they return early and do the work necessary!

[Curiosity]

Wow, KellBell, what a journey you have had! I am so happy for you and wish you all the best!

[KellBell]

Hey- just checking in and thought I would journal a few things.

First off- we’re officially official again! Married and heading off on our honeymoon this week. We got married on our old anniversary. Weird but seemed right. Now we’re wondering how to count our anniversaries going forward…23 years from the first and then add the years from the second? It’s crazy but a good problem to have.

Secondly- one of the biggest life lessons I’ve learned through all of this is… No matter how much I want to I can’t fix anyone or their lives. That goes for my husband, my adult kids, my brothers, my mom, my bestfriend etc. I can help and will always be here ready and willing but I’m done fixing. It was a lot of stress/work for me and robbed them of the ability to figure things out. This was one of my husband’s biggest hurdles- his mom and I always doing and fixing. He never learned total self reliance and/or appreciation for those who were doing things. It became expected. And I’ll be damned sure if my adult kids turn out that way. It’s also healthier for me.

Thirdly- I’ve noticed more and more people in my life going through a midlife crisis and my heart breaks for their families. It’s so tough. And crazy because it’s so obvious from the outside looking in. For some you have to just watch the self destruction and for others you comfort and love those picking up the pieces. Three years ago I would thought this was a cliche or a rare occurrence. It’s sad.

And lastly- a check in from my husband. We don’t talk a lot about his crisis. He’s still confused on why he felt so sure I was problem when he can clearly see now that alcoholism and depression were to blame. He apologizes a lot and gets nervous if he thinks I’m upset. He thinks I’ll leave. Low self esteem is an issue he’s dealt with the majority of his life and that mixed with the guilt of everything he did- leads to unsureness and apologies. He’s working his way back though. He’s still working on his addiction and depression but that will be life long work. And like I said before I wish I could fix it for him but I can’t and I wouldn’t. It’s hard but he can do this and the growth he’s shown is mind blowing. I’ve told him about this forum and at some point he wants to share his side. He’s started reading my story but had to stop. The truth is really hard to hear (or read) sometimes and sometimes it’s easier to take in in small amounts. He did say he was happy to know how the story ends. 

Anyway- I think that’s all from this side.

[MadLuv]

Thank you for the update and congratulations. I read a man’s midlife story. I may have out it in the reconciliation journal, but he and his wife divorced and remarried and he said they ignore those missing years. So, if they were divorced for 5 years they don't care. They consider they were never divorced. I think that is a lovely way to handle it.

[xyzcf]

Thank you for sharing Kellbell and much happiness to you both.

I know a couple who were apart for 18years…crazy…I attended their 50 th wedding anniversary and I think they counted from the date of their original marriage. It’s totally up to you.

Your husband will do the work or not. As you said, you cannot help others or fix them.

And lastly- a check in from my husband. We don’t talk a lot about his crisis. He’s still confused on why he felt so sure I was problem when he can clearly see now that alcoholism and depression were to blame

Several MLCers have said this and I trust that this is quite true. Whatever happens during their crisis, they don’t know why they did some of the things that they did.

[KayDee]

Congratulations Kellbell, maybe it's a New York wedding - so good they named it twice 

How brave of you to share your journalling with your H. Brave of him to start reading your posts. Thank you for continuing to share with the community. It is really appreciated and of course, very generous of you!

[WHY]

Amazing Kell.  I wish you and H the best going forward.

[thissucks7788]

What a wonderful update Kell! Best to you and your H.
B
xo

[MomOfSteel]

Wow!  KellBell I’m so happy for you.  I’ve always admired the way you handle things and this is no exception.  I’ve disappeared for a while from the forum as I’ve just been stuck in my own head lately and this was a great update to see. 

[FaithWalker]

Congrats on the re-marriage KellBell!  Thrilled for you.   

[KellBell]

Just wanted to check in and say Thank you again for all the support and encouragement this community offers. When we are going through this with our spouse- it's so easy to get lost in the emotional side and lose track rationally. This group really helped me keep focus on the facts (this was HIS issue, work on myself, nothing to do with me, hard to make sense of because it was/is non-sensical etc).

Hubs and I are still doing great and honestly happier than ever,. We communicate more and it's intentional, easy and nonjudgmental. He's still very much acknowledges his mistakes and issues, doesn't try to defend them and takes the full blame and accountability. I'm the first to admit, I had my own issues to work on and grew a lot during all of this. And really that still my number one piece of advice for anyone going through this. Work on yourself. That's the one thing you can 100% control and in a time when your world seems out of control...this will help. It will ground you and prepare you a great future regardless of if your MLC person is in that future or not. Work on your hobbies, your dreams, all the things you wanted to do (big or small), find focus, find purpose. Use this time to do the work and you won't regret it!

thanks again everyone!

[Evermore]

Thanks for catching us up KB. Glad things are still going well. Sounds like you need a pink or purple icon these days (so happy for you).

[beyondblessed]

Great update, Kell.  Your story and journey is proof that when both spouses work on their own individual issues, a new R can be successfully navigated.  Everyone of us who came here initially hoped and prayed our MLC'ER would be one of those who would "wake up" and see and own their issues.  Happy that yours was one of those who had the courage to do so, and that you let him do it for himself.

[WHY]

Kell you’ve made tremendous progress and we are all VERY happy for you. 

Please pop in every 6 months or so and keep the updates coming.   It’s good to know that there are some happy endings and they do actually exist.   

Onward and upward!

[KellBell]

Evermore- I'm not sure how to get my profile changed to pink or purple. I think it's an admin thing.

Why- goodness Thank you! I think about you and your family often. I wish you all the happiness regardless of her.

[Happylight]

I'm the first to admit, I had my own issues to work on and grew a lot during all of this. And really that still my number one piece of advice for anyone going through this. Work on yourself. That's the one thing you can 100% control and in a time when your world seems out of control...this will help.

I am newer on this forum.  Thanks for updating your story--otherwise I might not have found it.  It is truly inspirational.  Your thoughts on controlling the things you can are so important.  I have spent so much of my life trying to control things I couldn't.  I am still learning how to let go....and debate what I can actually control (like can I control how messy my teenagers room is?):-P

[thissucks7788]

Kell, Wonderful to hear your update and so happy for you and H.  Please continue to check in from time to time.  I have also been reconciled with my H and things are going well.  I do struggle sometimes just with everything that happened but am doing the best I can to deal with my issues regarding this (and they are definitely my issues).  You and your story have been a real inspiration.  Thank you for your kindness in that you continue to post as it gives hope to many.
B

[UrsaMajor]

Kell, Wonderful to hear your update and so happy for you and H.  Please continue to check in from time to time.  I have also been reconciled with my H and things are going well.  I do struggle sometimes just with everything that happened but am doing the best I can to deal with my issues regarding this (and they are definitely my issues).  You and your story have been a real inspiration.  Thank you for your kindness in that you continue to post as it gives hope to many.
B

It would be great if you would update your story as well. There are not too many reconciliation stories here and it would give newbies s a perspective on what it is like

[MadLuv]

So glad to hear things continue to go well. I think those that return quicker ( even if not  thought the norm for long term success) often are the ones that make it, because they have stopped the damage. The longer it goes, the more damage is done. Thank you for coming back periodically and updating. It is so good to hear ❤️

[thissucks7788]

UrsaMajor- updated