Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Shockandawe on July 14, 2019, 05:48:38 AM
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Onto another thread as we hit 150 again. I’m glad everyone is benefiting from this and my sister thanks you for all your kindness.
Keep asking your questions and she will do her best to answer.
Could someone very wise and kind please link my old threads.
Thank you very much.
On we go!
Previous thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10970.0
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Hi...the threads rack up quite quickly. Thanks again for all your time and patience, answering questions.
I updated my thread for the first time in a while...... https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10710.20
What do you make of an invite for a coffee for the first time in 2.5yrs, apologies and just general polite conversation, replacing irritable, aggressive and hostile interaction?
BD 27 months ago, moved outg almost a year ago....OM on the scene somewhere....
Thanks MK
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Hi McKnight
You know the drill. Be friendly, be kind and be yourself. Relax and prepare to listen. Ask no questions just listen and validate. Have no expectations but I think it’s a good thing that she has requested this.
Shocks sis
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SS:
I understand while in the fog you felt you had to get away from your H and wanted to live in your fantasy life. My question is once you started coming out of the fog did you begin to recall the good memories/times with your H?
Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Ro
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Attaching. Thanks again Shock and Shocks Sis.
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Hi Rob
When the fog lifted all of my feelings and good memories came rushing back. It was as if the wall of the dam had broken open and it hit like a tsunami.
The love, memories and feelings had been suppressed below the weight of the fog.
Shocks sis
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Hi Shock and Sis
Shock I am sorry your H is in MLC. I hope you and your sis are finding this thread healing for you both. Personally I am getting a lot out of it so thank you both so much.
I wanted to join in so have a question!
Shock’sSis
Are you worried you could go into a crisis again or that in 5/10 years time you may again have an affair and blow up your life? Or do you feel so in control of your life now that that is never going to happen (or let’s say 99% sure)?
I was also thinking it would be nice if you can ‘quote’ the question with the reply so it stays together. It’s really easy to do just use ‘quote’ on the top of the question you are answering and then the reply will pop up ready for you to type xxx
Rose 🌹
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Attaching. Thanks again shock and shock’s sis for your invaluable input and patience.
BS xxx
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Hi Rose
I’m going to say better than that I am 100% certain I’m through with MLC and I know that because I am a better person than when I went in. I have faced huge stress and subsequent traumas which I have more than coped with. I haven’t been overwhelmed by them and I now possess coping mechanisms my brain hadn’t developed but my time in MLC taught me these. If you like I grew up!
Shocks h is indeed deep in MLC at this moment and I do my best to reassure her that he’s out of her reach at this time and the best thing she can do is concentrate all her efforts on herself. She has really got a lot stronger. I remember when she first told me he had left and she suspected ow and from the things I could understand as she was so very distraught I began thinking this sounds familiar. It was then I knew he was in MLC. She has a greater understanding now and she is coping well with her interactions with him.
I’m sorry for all LBSers as your MLCers go on a demolition derby all of their own making. It’s brutal, it’s crazy, it’s cruel but to an MLCer it’s a compulsion. It’s not about the LBSer it’s all about the MLCer.
Shocks sis [/colour[/color][/color]
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Hi Shocksis,
My wife sent me pics of the kids playing in the park the other day. I responded politely and also walked the kids to her car for the first time. We had a little chit chat about the kids. I am trying to be strong and I believe I am coming across that way. Is this just a touch and go. Or is she having some clarity?
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Dear Shocks sis,
Thank you again for all of your responses and your guidance - you are helping me to understand better what is happening on a general level.
I have a follow up question (or two) for you based on your response to 1Trouble and Savvy last week --
Quote from: Shockandawe on July 11, 2019, 03:05:54 AM
Hi 1Trouble and Savvy
I started reconnecting with my friends first, had no pets, then my family then my mother then my ex h but in a way that was genuine not just talking about myself or our D. I think MLCers would all like to return on some level and maybe like me the timing for full explanation is not right. On the other hand perhaps they inflicted too much pain and suffering to ever feel their remorse would be enough. I don’t really know the answer to that and I can only speak for myself.
I resolved my issues over time and talking to my sister about it as she was there when our Father went through his MLC and with our mother who talked to me about it from her perspective and that she had forgiven our Father years before and that she always loved me and that if she had known how badly it affected me she would have done something years ago. It was pretty heavy and emotionally challenging but I talked it through, settled it in my mind and moved forward.
Shocks sis
What did reconnection mean to you and why did you seek to reconnect? How did you attempt it and did you move sequentially from person to person or in spurts. Was reconnection a series of "touch and goes"?
I ask because my H is clearly "reconnected" with his mother now that the original ow is gone (no clue if there is another waiting), and in recent weeks he seems to be reaching out to his siblings and trying hard with our son.
Thanks again- so much appreciated!! Maleficent
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Attaching
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Hi Father
I think it’s a good thing that she didn’t feel pressured or uncomfortable in your presence and to me that can only be a positive thing. I couldn’t say if it was a touch and go but at this point does it matter? You keep doing what you’re doing and any further interaction with your w should be light and easy with nothing that can be seen by the MLCer as pressure. Talking about the children is fine just no r talk and above all listen and keep listening.
You did great keep it up.
Shocks sis
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Hi Shock's sis,
I have a question, My exh is currently in the "i'm not talking to you" mode. Silence, since the beginning of May. He continues to take me
back to court even after the divorce has been final (by his doing). He refuses to get my name off of a loan we share and still has things
attached to me.
I spent some time talking to my MIL last year and she had said to me, if you want to say something positive or even tell him you are there
even if he doesn't reply. Then do it. Without expectations. I've learned through my own growing that things are done from your heart without
the expectation that you will receive anything in return. I've done this, i've sent positive quotes, I've told him that we would always be family, that he could talk with me if ever in need. I don't ever get a response. But I do it because I care, because I know that he has a lot of anger, pain, trauma from childhood.
He has even gone to the lengths to tell me that he has worked through it all. He is "fine", he just wants to be happy. He's done for all now he wants to do for himself. Yet all he did was to change the person he is living with. He has the same routine, just lives with someone who will wipe his bootie at anytime to keep him there. What a prize!
My question is this, do you believe that if the mlcer reads these things it has any affect on them at all? Do they store it in the positive memory bank? Or do you believe they just see it as pressure, or annoying etc etc.
Also, you mentioned that it was one trauma that led you in and another trauma that helped lead you out. Or your awakening so to speak.
Do you believe this is true? That another trauma leads you out and not further in?
Thank you, I've learned so much the past few days that has helped quite a bit.
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Hi Maleficent
I started to reconnect with my friends first because my life was no longer in the fantasy I was very much back in reality and as such I wanted my life back. I knew I couldn’t get my ex h back as he had a new life but I still to this day have feelings for him and I believe he does for me but it’s not the right time but never say never. One thing I have learned is life is unpredictable, never take anything or anyone for granted and be the best version of yourself you can.
My life is normal now and I have reconnected fully. My MLC I believe served a purpose in forced me to deal with my issues but in a way that protected me from spending time in a mental institution.
It is truly a terrible thing to both experience as an MLCer and to suffer as an LBSer. I see this now but in the thick of the fog I was incredibly selfish and cared only about me.
I have witnessed my sister in the depths of despair, I have read the posts which has made me face what I put my ex h through and it’s painful and I am immensely remorseful. I am glad to help and feel something positive has emerged from something so very negative. Always remember it’s not about you and it never was nor ever will be.
Shocks sis
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Hi Mrs Smiling
I’m sorry you’re going through this and I will do my best to answer.
What I’m about to say may seem blunt but there’s no other way to put this. Your texting positive thoughts etc although done with the best of intentions will be seen as pressure and that you are trying to be a fixer of something you didn’t break and cannot fix this has to come from him. He has OW who is invariably desperate to keep him and is in all likelihood using those texts etc as a way of putting you down and justifying in his mind he’s right to be with OW. These ow/om are very manipulative and as the MLCer is vulnerable they will anything as a means to put you down. Stop doing this and step back. The safety net has to be removed. Only make contact as a matter of urgency nothing more.
This is truly awful for you and I feel you will only suffer more pain and disappointment if you carry on this way. At this time he is out of your reach so empower yourself, concentrate on yourself and you will be strong.
I am of the opinion a traumatic experience has to happen to bring them out as this is what happened to me. As the fog was thinning the trauma flipped the switch back to reality. During the fog I caused so many traumatic events but they bounced off me as I was in my fishbowl of safety which is why the timing of the event which brought me out was all important. The traumatic event may or may not be about the LBSer and it may be something that the LBSer doesn’t view as very traumatic but at the right time the MLC exit switch is flipped.
Shocks sis
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Shock or Shocks Sis,
One of the biggest things I notice about my H is memory issues. Totally forgetting very familiar things. Following are some examples:
-Didn't remember the Airport we used to fly out of or what the airline was. Actually didn't believe there was anyplace close by son's destination when he was helping him plan a trip. He was at this airport only a year ago.
-Couldn't remember the awful paneling at our cabin. We had talked numerous times about painting or removing. Something he was very very familiar with.
-Couldn't remember things about the house that was once his home.
Typical response is usually...I didn't know about that. Or...are you sure about that?
There are many things like this. I find it very sad.
I don't view this as "rewriting" of history with me. There is the rewriting of history things too but this is memories that are just totally gone and unable to be recalled or only recalled with pics. t. I understand current memory issues that get linked to depression...things like "I'll stop by to pick up X and he forgets" or I'll call you later and he forgets.
Did Sis suffer from "amnesia" or did family and friends see this?
This has been the one huge consistant in H since BD and it just seems to get worse and worse. Even to the point where GS called him and two days later he told daughter I don't ever call GS because he never calls me. All the calls to him were missed calls on H's phone. Five of them!
This is totally forgetting things that were important parts of his history. Not rewriting....parts are just totally gone it seems.
Secondly....what is the best way to deal with it. I try not to make a big deal out of it....just sort of gloss it over and move onto next thing H wants to deal with. Thoughts?
Third...if there were "amnesia" issues....do those things ever come back?
I know everyone is different and this may not have been part of your experience...if it was...I would love feedback!
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Hi Shocksis
Thanks for all your time and providing lots of valuable information. It is helping me a lot.
I have a question on control. My exH is extremely controlling, we are now divorced and I am planning and focusing on relocating back to the UK next month with my 2 daughters but he is threatening me with legal action about not allowing his daughters to visit which is obviously absolute rubbish, I have never stopped him seeing them. To me it looks like he is totally out of control now and doesn't seem to be happy as I ignore his threats and his kids are moving away to a different country. Did you think you were controlling during MLC and if so do you remember being like that? It seems to be a common thing in MLC.
Sunny
X
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Shock's Sis:
Attaching.
Thank you for providing so much insight into the MLCers mind.
I'm just attaching, but have heard from many that it's a great help for us LBSers to understand.
Sea
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Hi SS, how old were you when the resentment to your husband firstly developed and how far was this from bomb drop. During replay what did you spend your money on. During this time did you try to change your image in particular wrinkle removal and excessive changes in hair colour. Lastly did you notice accelerated growth in facial hair that needed plucking and a decrees in your level of tolerance towards others that may have shown in angry outbursts.
Thanks for your thread.
Jack
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Shocks sis, I just wanted to say thank you again. I so appreciate your thoughts and how you are able to share. I am so glad you are in a better place now and that you have found peace. Maleficent
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I’m just attaching. Thank you for your advice. Perhaps this is your “paying it forward”. How wonderful that you can turn a tragic episode for you and your family into something positive by helping people understand what their spouses are going through. Thank you.
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Shocks sis- I apologise if I’ve asked this already, I can’t find it. Thank you for your answer on your feelings of mania whilst in MLC. I’m wondering if you also felt paranoid?
You talk about lying to yourself and not having any insight at the time into the fact that you are lying- was it not until the fog started to clear that you realised what you were telling yourself was lies or was there some awareness but you just pushed it away?
I ask this as I’m being constantly accused of things that make no sense through messages I ignore and through legal correspondence. The accusations have been proven not to be true with black and white evidence yet he repeats the accusations. So wonder if he forgets or is really starting to lose the plot. His accusations also seem paranoid in nature. Of course OW is fuelling some of this paranoia (I have good reason to believe this). Some of it really doesn’t make sense. I have removed myself as much as possible but he keeps dragging me back with these accusations. He’s full of anger and rage all directed towards me- but all based on lies he’s told himself and that he’s soo desperate to hold onto.
When you talk about the dam (I love that analogy btw)- did you first have to acknowledge the lies you told yourself before the feelings leaked through? Did the realisation that they were distorted reality hit you suddenly or in stages? I know every MLC experience is different so you may not have experienced the same level of paranoia and anger but if you did feel some of this- was it quite scary when you realised? I can’t imagine you could allow any former feelings to return if you’ve believed your skewered and paranoid reality.
With the latest nightmare of constant court cases and my MLCer becoming more of a monster (I will update my thread soon) - I’m just trying to understand what is driving and maintaining the anger and paranoia as his accusations are so far from the truth and he seems oblivious to the fact. It’s easier to maintain as we have no contact and he only speaks to OW and her family about it- it’s in their best interest to maintain his current thinking .His false allegations are self sabotaging in the long run and just seem like knee jerk reactions to feelings of anger and when he loses control.
I’m also interested in your answer to Sam I am about the memory loss.
Sunny9875- my MLCer is also very controlling and uses the kids as a tool to control. He was never this controlling pre MLC but control is now such an issue that I’ve had to contact police and get support as the controlling behaviour is emotionally abusive. I’m interested to hear from shocks sis about control.
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Latching on! shocksis thanks so much for this valuable info, my x married the ow, Im not at all interested in ever getting back with him, I was quite desperate in the beginning but not anymore I have no feelings for him, too much destruction I couldn't even look at him let alone think of him in that way!. My daughter tells me she sees glimpses of him coming through that show he's starting to slightly see the reality of what's happened, and she thinks he has regrets, its been just over 5 yrs for me, its quite sad what they go through and even worse for what they put their kids and lbs's through, Ive moved on but still feel a sense of 'shock' at the reality of what he's done, never in a million yrs did I ever think he had it in him.
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hello,
when you are in the fog can you feel it? are you aware something is not quite right? In the beginning my h said to me he has a fog around him. 5yrs now Can he still feel this or be aware of this?
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Hi Shocks sis,
Thank you very much for taking the time to tell us about what it was like when you were in MLC. This information is tremendously helpful.
Puzzled
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Thank you Shock and shock sis, these threads have been extraordinarily helpful.
I have a few questions - while in the fog would you have two sets of standards for you and your husband. My husband goes off the handle if I have a date or time wrong, or if the kids are a few minutes late for a transfer, however, he is consistently 15 minutes late or more - has only ever met his parenting obligations one month during the year and a half our parenting camp lan has been in effect- the list goes on and on, he’ll accuse me of saying things in emails, I will ask him politely to re-read the email so he can see that isn’t the case and he is just constantly furious at me - did you experience similar behavior?
We were together nearly 18 years at BD, it has been just over 2 years, from what I can tell he has not grieved our marriage or relationship at all - he is living with OW who’s divorce is now final too. I understand from mutual friends they fight - all the time - and the kids or I am often the topic - or I am often the topic of the tension... he was a very close contractor for the first year plus - he is still a close contractor but more distant this second year - more convinced our marriage was rubbish and he deserves to be “happy.” He has expressed to our sons that he has been depressed to the point of thinking about suicide.
Any thoughts you have are appreciated...
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ShockSis
Ditto on the last post
Thanx xx
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Hi Sam
Memory loss was a very big thing as I cannot remember certain things even now. I think that as the brain closed off the part that dealt with emotions and feelings etc to protect me from going insane it was as if it was not capable of storing anything as if the barrier was down and repelled anything trying to get in if that makes sense.
My memories of the pre MLC days were very distant and difficult to access and I believe that is because it kind of erases them for a time as I was not the person I was pre MLC and didn’t want to be.
I would have to write down anything important like appointments etc because I would almost immediately forget them. It’s a time of obscurity and foggy thinking and to this day I cannot remember things but I think it’s because I am not meant to as the person I became was horrible.
Just do as you have been doing is my advice because if you try to tell him what you know rather than what he does not it could stir monster as we MLCers are vulnerable and we do our best to portray strength so a weakness such as amnesia as I would have seen it would have seemed like trying to control and monster would very soon come out.
Shocks sis
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Hi Sunny
I wasn’t as much controlling as I wanted my own way as MLC is very very selfish. I even tried to convince my daughter to move countries with me to where om lived. Thank God she didn’t want to.
I cannot say for sure as I don’t know him but I’m wondering if he is using control as a way to show he’s strong when in reality he’s anything but. He’s most likely afraid that you will not be there and have moved on. It’s just crazy how selfish and how much of a victim we become in our skewed minds.
Never mind how much he hates it or how many times he monsters you do what is best for you. Show him what strength really looks like.
Shocks sis
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Hi Jackolar
I was mid 40’s when MLC hit. I started resenting my ex h after the death of my Father.
I spent like crazy, flying abroad every few weeks to be with om. Changing myself entirely from who I was. I had a tattoo, piercings, different clothes style, different hair style, different tastes in music, different food more or less if I could change it I absolutely would.
I wanted to be someone else and was running as fast as possible to get away from the version of myself pre MLC. In the end I did a complete 180 and returned to who I was but this took time but I am now myself again but I think I’m a better version now than the original.
Shocks sis
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Did your memories from pre-MLC ever come back or were they lost too?
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Did your memories from pre-MLC ever come back or were they lost too?
I am not an MLC'er but I have been at this now for over 10 years.
I have a lot of trouble remembering what happened 10 years ago, this I am sure of.
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Hi Shock's sis.
I don't think you need to keep turning your posts blue anymore.
We know you both have your own thread now. :)
Thanks for all your patience, and time, trying to answer question so many questions LBS's have.
Just don't, at any time, let if overwhelm you in any way. You are doing so good. :)
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Shock's sis, this is an interesting discussion and you are helping many people. Thank you.
Last night I did a booboo and drunk emailed my h after hearing more about the horrid ow from my d20. Two lines. Are you happy now, really? Must've been a pretty horrid 20 years. Of course he had no idea what I was talking about and I regretted it as soon as I remembered doing it.
His response ... He was shocked and asked me if I was insinuating that he had a horrid life. I really should post his response. I will.
Ummm Hello,
Are you suggesting my life is bad now? Life wasn't rotten it was just time for a change. Is it way better, I wouldn't say that but it is different in many ways some good, some bad. Overall I am happy. I wouldn't change the outcome just maybe the way it went down. Even if I was single I would feel the same way. When I left I didn't think everything was going to be rosy and no matter the situation I always make the best of it.
It's not that I hate you or regret our time together at all.
So his big thing seems to be that he wanted a change. He emailed a few months ago to say that he still loved me but it was time to have new experiences with new partners.
Is that kinda what you felt as well? I don't understand why changes to both of our lives couldn't be done together. After 3 years I still don't get it b
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Hi ShockSis
I second what Tyks just asked......I'm pretty sure my XH said the same thing, using different words ("We've grown apart....you either grow together, or you grow apart.")
Could there be any truth to their bull$h!te? Has he finally found his "true companion?" Or is this all just the MLC talking?
Thanx xxx
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Hello,
would you mind answering my question a few posts back? I understand with so many questions it can gwt overwhelming thanks
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I’m not Shock Sis, I am sure she will have an interesting perspective but for me TYKS that is my worst nightmare. That my husband just says “meh” after 18 years or “I just needed a change” - I would rather hear his rage, spewing, crazy talk and wild uncharacteristic behavior - and for what it’s worth, what kind of a person just blows up his life and family because they want change, regardless of the damage they cause in their wake... hopefully this is MLC denial.
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Hi Keep Believing
Sorry I missed out your question I will do my best to explain the fog.
When in the run up to MLC my thinking began to change. My Father had been diagnosed with cancer and it was terminal. I know that it’s quite normal for anyone to go through a whole range of emotions at that point but I began to feel as if I was beginning to splinter apart. He died within 3 months of diagnosis and it was then I really started to feel like I was shattering inside. I had moments of total confusion as if my thoughts were being jumbled around and the speed of the thoughts got faster and faster. I couldn’t remember things and I felt fear and anger and hatred starting to build as good feelings started to slip away. The numbness set in and I felt like a block of ice. I suppose the foggy explanation is the only way to describe it because it felt as if I was detaching from reality.
When the fog was at its deepest, which I now know to be replay, I was convinced I was right about the fact that I had to live a new life with om and my ex h was a shackle which was holding me back. He was the worst person in the world, he was weak and draining. I didn’t need him nor want him. I had found the perfect man. The fog is an accomplished and totally convincing liar. I destroyed my life because I was so sure I never happy with that life, that I deserved better, that I had found mr. Perfect. All lies!!!
I couldn’t see or feel the fog but at that time the fog became my truth, my armour, my life. It was only after some time I started to move out of the fog I realised that things were far from the lie the fog had me believing for so long.
Shocks sis
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Hey Shock-Sis,
Did you seek to control your H while the MLC was running full steam? We're told that the MLC'er will attempt to hold them in place for use later (plan B).
Also, how did your spewing/monstering go with your H? Did you have to blow off steam onto him on a regular basis? Or were you content being left alone?
Mine is all over the place. She wants to vent and project.... then be left alone..... but always wants to be in the loop.
Second question: Did you keep tabs on your H to know what he's doing, even if you didn't like him?
Mine doesn't seem to notice anything, until she slips in a conversation that yeah, she's watching everything.
What were these like for you?
Thanks!
-SS
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Thank you.
Do you beleive some can come out of the fog and continue with ow because they destroyed there old life so much but still show signs of anger? maybe because they didnt help themselves yet. My h said 2 years ago , he made his bed and now has to sleep in it. I wonder if this fog has dissipated some and he is too much of a coward to admit wrong choices he made or just sees no way to fix it. he recently mentioned something to the fact of how do i fix it? but is still with ow. now you would think he would know that getting rid of ow would be the first step. But i know at this point she is the only person in his life.
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Hey Shocks Sis,
You have talked a lot about the fog. What about cycling? Were you all over the place? My wife has been the worst in the summers. That is when her affair started. Since 2016 when bomb drop was for us. She has had a major push away from me and the marriage. Ever year it has been the worst through the summer months. We have reconnected a couple of times through this process. Once was even significant where she seemed all in or back to normal for a few months.
I just find it very confusing and bizzare. I know they say MLC'rs cycle, and from my experience it is true. Most of what I have read from you seems that you were consistent about wanting to get away. Did you have confusion regarding that? Or were you just convinced you were doing the right thing at the time.
My wife and I have talked very recently about splitting up. I can still see that she is confused about this though and is not convinced this is the right course of action.
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Hi SS, with what you have been through can you see MLC in the people you meet or your friends, and what advice would you give them.
Jack
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Hi 3boys
The fact he is still angry and that he was a close contacted means to me that he’s not fully in the fog as I too was constantly angry and would bring out monster regularly. I was using the monstering to cause arguments to in turn justify what I was doing.
Once deep in the fog anger turned to total indifference and I didn’t need to justify anything to myself anymore as nothing penetrated my bubble of my fantasy world.
2 years isn’t really that long but he’s got his ticket in hand to board the crazy bus and has probably already got one foot on it.
Ask him no questions and divulge no information concerning you. He gave up rights to that information so keep out of his way as much as possible he isn’t the person you know but board the bus he must. In order to go through he has to take the journey.
Look after yourself and let him go do what he thinks he has to.
Shocks sis
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Hi Tyks
So you made a mistake and did something you wish you hadn’t. Stop beating yourself up and understand this, I was convinced also about my feelings having changed, that I changed, that I wanted to change my life etc. The common denominator here is change. It’s a compulsion that I couldn’t fight. The fog lied and I totally believed it.
MLC took everything but it’s seductive and something like addiction. It’s very difficult to understand the fact that the person you know so well hits the self destruct button but at this point they are no longer the person you know. They don’t react how your spouse would. Reading between the lines here I am reminded of how much I wanted a new shiny life because my usual life had caused me to change. This is the fog skewing my thoughts to match my fantasy.
Same drill as always, leave him to it, use this time to become stronger. He probably won’t remember it anyway.
Shocks sis
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Hi SS
I didn’t actively keep tabs because my D would tell me things. Once the fog is really at its thickest indifference hit and I didn’t care what he did or didn’t do.
Confusion was very prevalent at first and I didn’t have many options regarding my ex h as he took up very quickly with his now wife.
Shocks sis
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Thanks Shock Sis, very helpful insight. He definitely is not indifferent. Very much still cycling - touch and goes. Every once in a while, rarely, though he did it last week - he tells the boys to look out after me. He also tells them he has given up so much and that he will “pay for walking out on his family every day of his life.” So still confused I imagine. But cruel and utterly negligent and irresponsible with the boys and finances.
You are helping so many LBS better understand the MLC journey. Very happy that you have recovered and even become a better person. Congratulations. I wouldn’t wish the MLCer or LBS’ pain on anyone.
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use this time to become stronger. He probably won’t remember it anyway.
ShockSis
My X is getting MARRIED one week from tomorrow, and is now having his FANTASY wedding with all the things that he'd wished he'd done the first time around.
Are you suggesting that he may not even recall this wedding? Like, a drunken blackout of sorts?
Thanx again xxx
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Hi Keep Believing
I know that my Father did exactly that. He ended up marrying the ow as he had burned all of his bridges to my mother. He didn’t have one happy day for the entire marriage and divorced her. He asked my mother several times to take him back but she didn’t want to know as she had been hurt so deeply and moved on.
He told me himself one day that the biggest regret he had was leaving my mother and that he loved her and always would and rather than be alone he married ow.
It’s just so sad but it’s the gamble MLCers take, only thing is they are betting against the LBS little realising the LBS ultimately holds all of the cards.
Shocks sis
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Hi Confused
In the early days before the fog fully enveloped I cycled and was confused but as it gathered more and more thickly I set off on my fantasy quest and pretty much stayed that way until the fog started to dissipate.
Shocks sis
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Hi Jackolar
I could see from Shocks description of things her h did or said he was in MLC. As for giving advice to someone in MLC it would be completely pointless as I would be going up against an impenetrable wall and anything I said would bounce off. No, I choose to save my advice for the person with clarity and that is the LBS.
Shocks sis
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Hi Shock Sis,
Leading up to and after BD my h’s sexuality seemed to go through an upheaval of sorts. To be blunt, his appetite soared and an interest in the darker side of sex seemed to emerge. It had nothing to do with me because by then he had already lost interest in me.
I’ve always wondered if this is connected to MLC or if it is just a coincidence it developed around the same time. And if it is MLC related does the sexuality return back to what it was before when the MLC ends.
Can you relate at all to this or do you have any thoughts about it?
Thanks Shock Sis 🙂
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Hi Mego
No, that is not what I’m saying. The wedding is most probably part of the fantasy and as it’s a physical event it’s not the same thing as interactive email or text messages.
Tyks h’s reply to her drunken email was typical as when I was going through MLC, very early in, I too took up the mantle of victim in that I had done everything for others and it was time for me now. It’s all very self validating and justifying. I don’t remember much of my interactions with my ex h and even less if those interactions were done via text or email. Even face to face are somewhat blurry.
In time Mego I am sure he will regret all of it but that can be a very long time from now.
Keep strong
Shocks sis
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In time Mego I am sure he will regret all of it but that can be a very long time from now.
Keep strong
Shocks sis
And jmo, someone else's regret does not change the reality in the room.
It may change their future behaviour, but that is not reality yet and may never be.
LBS imho start to heal when we work from the reality we see in front of us and start to choose our own reality beyond that.
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Exactly Treasur, Shock here,
The reality of the MLCer is not the reality of the LBSer. We have the choice to either move forward with our healing and growth or we can become stagnated and stuck. As my sister is constantly telling me there’s not one single thing you can do to help your h but there are so very many things you can do to help yourself.
God bless you all
Shock
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Hi Anon
The dark side as you put it fits in with the splitting of the personality in that MLC to my mind anyway, is a crisis of identity amongst FOO issues and depression. Yes I can well understand this as his dark side is another facet of a no holds barred experiment in what I want, freedom from responsibility ride on the crazy bus. It seemed to me that the filter that would normally have been there to stop me from crossing certain boundaries was of no consequence to me in full MLC whilst on the crazy bus.
Once the replay part of MLC was over I returned to normal once again. Don’t worry too much as he’s like a teenager experiencing all the things out of bounds prior to MLC.
Shocks sis
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Hi Shock. I'd like to echo what everyone is saying - thank you so much for this. As a newbie to all this it really is helping me getting to grips with the whole mess.
Just after BD do you remember being particularly nasty to your H? Some of things mine has said to me in the last couple of weeks are so vindictive and unnecessary. It almost feels like he is out to destroy me. Why?
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Hi Jacs
I remember being positively evil to my ex h in the beginning before I was completely in the fog. The anger and resentment towards my ex h escalated as the fog got thicker. My view on the reason why is because I had the lying going on in my mind that it was his fault that I was unhappy and that the om would make me happy, that I deserved to be happy, that I needed my ex h gone. His begging and pleading just confirmed how weak he was and that made me hate him more.
My anger fuelled monster which spewed out evilness but he was never horrible to me and when the fog began clearing I saw him as strong not weak. Weakness is what I as an MLCer feared as I was weak not my ex h. Justification is what I wanted in the early part of MLC and I would get this from causing him to basically fall apart.
Awful I know but it’s how it was.
Jacs let go and work on you. You’re the strong one because you withstand this onslaught.
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Hey,
Can you provide us a timeline of sorts to your MLC. It would be of interest to me and I'm sure others as a comparison to all our unique situations.
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Can I ask what your attitude was like outside of your LBS?
My MLCer seems to have what I can only describe as a pent up rage, particularly aimed at men. (I won't get into his daddy abandonment issues, it is far to obvious why it is men of a particular age and persuasion.)
It is almost as if he is itching for a fight (this from a man who spent most of his life conflict avoidant).
The guy who drives to close to him, the person who get's his coffee wrong, the guy who chastises him for something stupid at work...All are targets and 'trigger' this rage in him.
As you talked about..he also had a filter before that would make him think things, or be annoyed, but he wouldn't have started anything because you know... consequences.
He routinely talks about his 'filter' being broken. About not caring about what happens in the moment.
Did you have anything similar to this while in your MLC? Did you ever find yourself monstering at people other than your LBS?
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Hi Morte
I don’t remember getting angry with anyone else but then I pretty much didn’t interact with many of the people I knew. I had new people to interact with and as it was my movie I saw them as extras on a way.
Anger passes to indifference and nothing bothered me I was safe inside my bubble.
Shocks sis
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Hi Shock sis,
Did you ever monster at OM?
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Hi shock sis,
I was wondering the same thing as sun asked. How did you treat the om? Did you take your anger out on them? I know I walked on egg shells the two years prior to H leaving and I was wondering if the ow/om get put under the same kind of stress that the spouse had/has when living with the mlcer.
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Hi Sun and SS
When my fantasy was new I only saw om sporadically and it was everything I wanted as I had no responsibilities and could live my movie. At this time no I didn’t monster at om. Once reality began to invade then yes I would monster and the monstering increased to the point I only ever monstered. I was hostile and evil toward him. I would scream that I hated him and wanted him to leave. I was just the epitome of hateful. I went from being ecstatically happy (all fake fantasy) to hating having this person even in the same room as me. Again and again the om would talk me around and I was fearful of being on my own because I think most of not all MLCers fear that. But the time came when I would rather be on my own than anywhere near the om.
All of this took time and a lot of it. My advice to you is sit back and watch the movie as a spectator rather than a part player.
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Shocks sis, thank you so much for your courage and kindness here. As many words as I have and use, I don’t have words enough to express my amazement and gratitude for your thoughtful transparency.
On the tail of your latest answer about most MLCers fear being alone (and I think you’re right about that, I’ve seen it in many midlife peers aside from my h or the spouses here), what is that fear about? Is it a generalized anxiety that exists prior to MLC and just is amplified to unbearable by the individual’s triggers at midlife? Or is it something bigger and brand new?
I hear that your father’s death was a major catalyst for you. I want to bring that up softly — my father has been dead 40 years and so I feel for anyone who loses their dad especially much later in life. My father loss was sudden and violent, so it was not well handled by any of my family in the aftermath. Now that h is gone away, this is my primary self-focus beyond day-to-day parenting, money, etc.; I finally have the room and silence in which to go after those old facts and really feel and express my grief about my dad. It has been a good if difficult process but I can see where if h’s crisis and “away” time had not happened, my father loss and unaddressed grief probably would have caused me to be the one in MLC.
All that preface to ask you, do you think that anything might have been easier or gentler for you, if ahead of crisis there had just been better cultural and societal support for bereavement? We still don’t seem to allow for it much in today’s world. Grieve two weeks and no longer or it’s a personality disorder and a psychiatric illness and here’s some pills for you, now get back to work and get back to “normal”.
That’s not how grief works, really. You don’t have to say here or at all, but my fatherless inner child is softly asking if you are ok, and could it have been better for you. Was there something in bereavement where your needs were not met, and would it have been a kinder road for you if the world at large had understood better what those were?
Thank you again for your reflections and willingness to share. I don’t know how to say that in the deepest way I feel it.
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During your MLC, did you act as tho you were the coolest thing ever? Did you tell people how awful your H was or your om and activities were a distraction? When you were the monsters, Did your H ever tell you about it later and you thought he made it up? When you came out of the fog you say you don’t remember piece of things . Was it a knowing you were monstering at your h or was it just a feeling of knowing? Did you ever say maybe a couple year down the road we can get back together?
The reason I’m asking is because my H did and said all these things. We are at almost 5 years. But 3 since major BD. I truly think he maybe the one that doesn’t come through MLC.
Sis. I so appreciate your insight. I wish you nothing but happiness!
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Hi Terra
Thank you for your kind words they mean a lot.
I tried grief counselling but it cannot help with MLC.
I think the counselling should have happened when I was a child that way I think I would have learned how to cope and not block it to come and hit me later.
It’s not something I would wish on anyone but I came through it albeit leaving a wake of destruction behind me.
I hear you Terra and I hope you are at peace.
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Hi Shelley
Hahahaha YES I was absolutely convinced I was the most fabulous person ever!! I did tell people my ex h was a horrid person and the om was mr perfect. I did this very early in the fog and continued until the fog started to thin enough to see with clarity enough to know it was lies though for a while anyway the fog would push back those thoughts. Once the wall of the dam came down it was game over and I would now tell people how much I hated the om and his vile habits! I even told om on a daily basis I hated him and wished he would leave.
When I monstered at ex h his response both at the time and later was that he thought I was having a breakdown and going insane.
I don’t remember what I said but I do remember shouting a lot.
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Thank you so much for your response. I find you courageous. Have a great day.
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Hi Shock Sis,
I have a question about blame - my sons are devastated, my spouse was completely manic for about a year until he had a medical emergency, his mania has somewhat declined though he often rages and has been emotionally abusive and on two occasions he became physical (he threw something at me once, pinned me to a wall another time) - once he pinned one of our sons to a wall when he wasn’t “compliant” - our son is an athlete and fought back and our son ended up scratched and bruised. All three of our sons feel abandoned, neglected and abused, the relationship is highly strained, right now he has no overnight visitation, and must have others with him when he sees the boys as they develop trust. the OW is the mother of our middle sons teammate and one of his (former) closest friends - my boys refuse to have anything to do with the OW. My ex and she moved in together without informing me two months ago - my ex said he wouldn’t put the kids around her until October so the boys and he can focus on rebuilding trust. This weekend he tried to break that promise and both my boys were terribly upset, they refused to go with him if he brought her (they are 14) - the sporty son said if his dad forced this now, before they have a chance to heal their relationship then he just won’t have a relationship with his dad at all. My ex threatened to take the boys to court and is blaming me for it all saying that I need to tell the kids they have to “accept” her, quit “judging” him and move on. My question is about blame - why am I always to blame? I am kind to him, I have encouraged the boys to go to counseling with their dad and to try to heal their relationship and stay open to him.
I know about the fog, I know this is a process. I know I am not to blame, however, his constant using me as a scapegoat when he has betrayed and abandoned us and absolutely devastated and neglected his kids emotionally, physically and financially just stupefies me. For 18 years he was an awesome dad, great husband. His three sons were the light of his life. Can you help me understand the neglect, irresponsibility and blame....? Any unsight is appreciated.
Thanks so much,
3Boyss
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They think if they say it’s your fault enough people will believe them and play the victim. Don’t respond to their drama, keep being nice and people will see through their bitterness eventually.
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Hi 3boys
Well, firstly, he is still the great husband, awesome dad etc, it’s just that person is buried deep under the fog blanket. He is, for the time being, somewhat akin to a sulky, moody teenager ( think throwing tantrums when things don’t go how they want them to) but he has the body and strength of a man. The fact he wants everything to be perfect in his fantasy world is obviously never going to happen. In his fogged up and skewed head he is doing nothing wrong and he seems to think you are the reason this happy and united Walton’s style family are not living happily ever after. ALL FANTASY!!
As for the ow, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear she’s in the driving seat stirring it all up because that’s what the majority do. She will do all she can to provoke and prime him ready to target you as the unreasonable one. He most definitely is targeting you and monster is his rage at the guilt and anger he is feeling but rather than looking at himself for the reason he is blaming you.
You need to keep your distance from him and go as little contact as is possible. He has already shown he can be violent and has no regard for either you or his sons. This makes him dangerous and I would definitely go as little contact as possible and if that means getting the courts to enforce it then do so.
Protect yourself and your boys as much as you can because he’s going to be this way for a while yet.
The man you know and love is in there but this awful person has replaced him for the time being.
I’m sorry you are going through this but remember this is not the awesome dad and husband anymore.
Shocks sis
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Hi shock's Sis and thanks for staying with us. I hope the questions we ask also help you examine your own MLC and help you to heal. I also guess that by now you have a really good idea what the life of a LBS is like and it's not pretty for the MLCer or the LBS.
I am wondering when you feel most of the work on yourself was done? Did it take until you woke up for you to begin to put yourself back together and examine your issues or do you think your affair partner helped you grow up and work on some FOO issues during replay?
I am going to post links to Heart's Blessings pages which gives her take on what happens during crisis which may help to explain what I am asking and if you agree with her explanations? Each part is only one page in length so not as bad as it looks but does a wonderful job of explaining the crisis (I hope).
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/past-parental-issues-and-the-affair-partner-an-explanation/
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-children-of-the-mid-lifers-issues/
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/a-deeper-look-at-the-children-of-the-mid-lifers-issues/
Thanks...... :) :)
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Hi Shocksis,
How was your daughter with the OM? Did she ever meet him and what age was she when/if they ever did and what was their interaction like?
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Thanks Shocks Sis, hearing directly from a survivor of MLC, one who has walked through the tunnel and come out the other side willing to share your story and perspective with us is truly a gift to the LBS, thank you
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Hi Savvy
I met om online and we hit it off. Only because I was already on the way to MLC as I would not have looked at him twice. He was very laid back but also very manipulative. I thought he was my perfect man so blind to reality and desperately trying to escape that reality. I feel I started to deal with my issues once my blinkers came off and I started to hate om. I berated him constantly and was angry and never wanted him anywhere near me. I see this as regression to dealing with what my father made me feel as a child.
Once the om has served his purpose he was not needed any more and so I told him to leave.
I feel I am still adjusting to my feelings about it all but knowing I have settled my issues and am continuing to deal with my life and will probably be doing this for the rest of my life though it’s not a bad thing because I no longer suppress it.
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Hi Father
My daughter was only 8 when she met om for the first time. I took her with me to his home country and although she liked the holiday she was very quiet around him. When he came to live with us she basically just ignored him most of the time and she resented his presence as she had me all to herself before he came to live with us.
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SS
I had a very vivid dream last night about my MLC'er which brought to the forefront of my mind how we were, how happy we were and how content I use to be, how we had each others backs
And it made me wonder does my MLC'er have those sorts of dreams in crisis AND is there a point in the crisis where they experience flash backs of how things really were.....before crisis
I can, even now, have times where totally unaware something innocuous can take me back to a happy time, like the weather we are having in the UK atm and trying to keep my dog in the shade when I walk him, reminded me of a place we all (MLC'er me and the dogs) use to go in our caravan which was perfect for the dogs to exercise but in the shade and it made me sad and wistful, totally out of the blue
Did you have those sort of dreams or moments I describe, at any point in your crisis that you remember or did those sort of things happen as you started to come out?
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Thanks for your reply Shock's Sis, it's what I thought may be the case which is great because my xH apparently has seen the grass is not greener but there are not enough holes in his dike yet ;)
I hope you found the information Heart's Blessing provides useful and we are helping you on this journey too.
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Hello,
Would you please share examples of how om was manipulative? thanks
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Hi SS, as you couldn't see or feel the fog could it have been clinical depression that was making you act self centred and in survival mode. Depression can numb you and interfere with rational thought.
Jack
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Hi Shock Sis,
Something I have noticed with my h a lot,,,, even now 2+ years after bd. He lies,,, well that is MLC for you so I expect it. The lies usually are pointless and so it is easy to ignore. The most common lie is about the time he spends out of town visiting with the ow. He is always out of town and always there. Rarely, if ever, does he go out of town for any other reason. I NEVER ask where he is or where he is going but,,, sometimes (often), he will admit to being out of town, but only for 4 days when in fact it is for 10 days,,, or say he is out of town to visit a dying friend when he is really back with ow in her hometown. He is always implying (to me at least) in various ways that he is not in a serious relationship when in fact it is very serious and says this to other friends and family, just not to me. It is pointless now for him to protect my feelings with these lies and he knows it. I am so done with him and couldnt be more indifferent so why does he do this?
So what is the point of these lies? Why does he offer false information (a lie) when it wasnt necessary to say anything at all? I hear other lbs saying the same thing or similar about the many lies but I dont think Ive heard anyone respond with an answer that explains why. Can you shed light on this common but peculiar MLC trait?
Thanks Shock Sis
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Hello,
Would you please share examples of how om was manipulative? thanks
This! Also, how long between “meeting” om online and then moving in together? My h seemed to do this very quickly (6 weeks) and that was how he was when he married xw. I don’t move that fast so I don’t really understand how others do, and ;) he won’t answer my questions about it.
Thank you for answering my earlier question about the grief/bereavement aspect. I’m sorry for whatever particulars you endured via your dad when young. If you or your sister haven’t done EMDR yet, that was the one therapy (mostly nonverbal) that really helped me forward from a lot of things I either couldn’t or didn’t want to talk about.
Grief therapy wasn’t all that helpful, but I’m hopeful that the field of interest becomes “smarter” over time. Your sharing and insight shows a lot of humanity of a different aspect of this process, and I hope life is good to you in all the best ways.
My D15 is so much quicker than I am, to catch on to and call out manipulation. I think we hear a lot about how women are manipulative, but what does that look like in a man? Or when in a fog?
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Hi SS, what was your drive during MLC and what did you do on a daily basis to achieve it. When you woke up was it gradual or sudden. Also now your in control what do you enjoy doing that was different pre-MLC.
Kind regards
jack
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Shocksis, from what my daughter tells me the ow is very controlling, xh was spending time with my youngest and she msgd him 'shouting' U SAID U WILL BE HOME AT 6!, the other weird thing is they both share the car and other non sensical stuff normal married couples don't do , seems to be she's very insecure and controlling in his right mind he would never put up with that $h!te, why do these om/ow all have same/or similar traits?
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Firstly, I've been reading this thread for a number of weeks now, and it has to be said, SS needs praising to high heaven for the courage to actually put herself out there, describing the process from the other side, for those of us living the LBS lifestyle.
I find the information absorbing and I can see so much of what my W has done in every single sentence. This is serious 'script' activity, and I also notice everyone is noticing the same things (is a special trigger placed in certain people at birth!).
I know everyone has their own particular question to ask, and SS has been awesome at answering them all, so.....here's mine!
My W is probably heading towards the end of her MLC (I think...who knows?). The fantasy lifestyle has gone; she appears more humble and wants to spend more time with the kids; happy to spend a few moments of time in my company, but, I just don't understand why she can't just come back? So, boiling it down, at what point did you want to return, and how long did it take you to make the ultimate 'I want him back' decision to actually thinking of a course of action (BTW I am aware that your H has remarried). Thanks in anticipation!
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Hi Savvy
Sorry I have taken a while to reply but I have been working a lot!
Ok, yes I feel I have resolved my issues and I’ll probably be aware of anything else if there’s any more to crop up though I doubt it.
I have read the links you posted and yes they are bang on because I can see the similarities between om and my Father and know my ex h wasn’t like my Father in his attitude or temperament but om was.
It’s quite amazing when I look back at how stupid I was but I had to go back to move forward if that makes sense. I know I am at peace with everything now and when Shock tells me about her h I instantly recognise the things I said and did and I cannot believe I was responsible for all the hurt and pain and destruction I caused but I know I was the driver of my own crazy bus.
LBSers to you I apologise for your hurt and devastation and feel humbled by your acceptance of me. We all heal at different paces but we heal eventually and if I can help in that healing I will.
Just remember your MLCer for who they were because they are in there somewhere but for now are lost and you cannot be their co driver as you’re not equipped for that job.
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Hi 1Trouble
I would avoid places which evoked memories and I would train my mind to ignore any thoughts or feelings for my ex h but occasionally yes, I would have the odd thought come into my head and I would try to block it out but sometimes when I was alone I would have a quiet weep. I would then think about how he was weak and needy and that would close down the sad thoughts.
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Hi Keep Believing
I didn’t think he was manipulative at all but he was very manipulative and very controlling.
I was happy to leave it as an ea and after a few months chatting and him listening to all my problems with ex h, how unhappy I was etc, he asked me to visit in person. I said at first I didn’t think it was a good idea as he knew from the start I was married. He began telling me how I deserved to be treated better, how he adored me and would make sure I got to relax and de stress if I visited him. He was very convincing and I told him I could come over and as I had a friend in his city I would tell my ex h I wanted to visit her for a week. The om began to tell me he didn’t think it was fair on my ex h to lie to him and he deserved to know the truth. At the time I thought he was kindness itself to think about my ex h but that’s not what he was doing. He implied that if I didn’t tell my ex h the truth about where I was going then he wouldn’t be there for me and he would cut communication with me. I was afraid of that because he was the one person who made me feel something. It was highly manipulative and emotional blackmail.
When the fog began to clear that was one thought that came back to me over and over again. Had I not been in MLC I firstly would not have ever looked at him twice and secondly tell him where to go in the lowest of terms lol.
Just shows how messed up we are.
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Hi Anon and Terra
Lies are sometimes what a manipulative ow/om tells your MLCer to do to you as they want the maximum hurt on you and total control of your spouse.
The MLCer is living a complete lie and because you know them best and would know they aren’t all happy as a pig in the proverbial, they lie. It’s a paradox to live a lie but tell the truth about it. I told so many lies and I am a very honest person but I lied anyway. It’s also something I did to convince myself I was justified doing what I was doing. So a combination of reasons but you can bet your life at least one of those reasons are in action every time they open their mouths to speak.
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Thank you for replying back on one of your thread,
I read that H is married right after you left. Now do you think he really really happy. Would you take the chance to fight for what you love. Would you tell H how you feel or would you rather not say nothing.
My situation was very verbal abusive but also became physical at the end not even sure if she remembers she smells like tequila the first time she slap me or grip me. But she then became abusive to our youngest. I am doing everything for now for her to be away from us. As I stated this monster came over night lots of hatred and anger. I wasn't perfect partner as I did have an emotional affair in 2014. But I realized it was wrong. I thought we overcame this but little to just finding out OW was in the pictures even before my emotional affair. A mutual friend finally told me they been seeing each other way before me doing my thing and me then getting sick. I have left Ex alone but unfortunately there's kids and even kids find her weird.
Once upon a time there was hope but after her emotional and physically hurting kids not sure if we could ever even be friends but then again I don't know as only God knows what's plan for us.
Was just wondering if you would ever tell ex Sorry as I know sorry could come a long way.
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Hi Why Stand
It’s complicated and as an ex MLCer it’s still just as complicated lol.
I knew I had to firstly gain the strength to accept that it was my doings that had caused so much destruction and pain. I began to regret connect with the easiest and least affected as in my friends. I gained confidence from this and began reconciling with my closer family. I knew from the moment I had my awakening I loved my ex h but, because he had moved on there was no chance but in your case it’s different. I would have reconciled with my ex h last because that would be the most difficult relationship to reconcile. Without my fog blanket I was so weak and I had to build up my nerve and strength to muster up the courage.
Give her time and understanding and be the anchor and safe place she so desperately needs.
I’m sure she will come through this as she is making the right moves just don’t apply any pressure as timing is crucial and the one thing I wanted most was to feel safe.
Let her come to you as ultimately it’s got to come from her.
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Hi Jackolar
I know I couldn’t concentrate on much during MLC. It was more an existing than anything because I was constantly chasing happiness but was desperately unhappy inside. I am and always was an avid reader but I couldn’t read a book at all and would read the same two pages over and over so I gave this up.
I’m now back to reading voraciously again. I’m happy by myself and enjoy my own company and am not afraid to be alone. I n MLC the prospect of being alone was terrifying which is why I couldn’t break it off with om for some time as I was going to be alone if I did. Eventually I built up the strength to do this and the fear of being alone wasn’t so scary.
This is one of the reasons it takes so long to get rid of ow/om. I was also a very confused and shattered person. I know one of the main drivers of MLC is depression and yes I know I was depressed but I blamed my ex h for my unhappiness instead of facing my issues.
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I would have reconciled with my ex h last because that would be the most difficult relationship to reconcile.
Ha!
It is a well-known fact that there is a reconciliation "order", and that the spouse comes last.
Just funny to hear it straight from the horse's mouth :)
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Hi Chris
They are ALL controlling and highly manipulative. Think of a big black spider sitting in a web. They work their way in because your MLCer is probably about the most vulnerable they have ever been and these om/ow use all their skills of manipulative actions to draw them in. To become their “best friend “ and confidantes. They slowly but surely draw them in and the MLCer becomes convinced they cannot do without them. I daydreamed about om. He was my life until he wasn’t.
Confusion is a great advantage to om/ow and you can bet your life they will use that confusion to manipulate your spouses into believing they are looking out for them and protecting them from their awful spouses!!!
To try to convince your spouse is pointless it’s like they have been brainwashed and until they begin the awakening no good will come of wasting your time attempting to convince them.
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I am and always was an avid reader but I couldn’t read a book at all and would read the same two pages over and over so I gave this up.
Relate to this so much in my own crisis. Even when I did manage to finally get through a book, I didn't retain anything. Like having a different brain. Thank you for this confirmation.
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Hi Jay
I know the time isn’t right yet and I caused him so much pain and anguish and he has children with his new wife.
I won’t cause him anymore pain. I will know when the time is right but it’s not now.
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Hi SIS,
The way you describe the ow/om pisses me off, but how I look at it it is his karma. This is what he deserves. I know he is going through a mlc, but this will teach the child man the importance of making good choices. Not my circus not my monkey.
Stand
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LBSers to you I apologise for your hurt and devastation and feel humbled by your acceptance of me. We all heal at different paces but we heal eventually and if I can help in that healing I will.
I'm not sure I will ever heal.
I work, eat, sleep, exercise, keep fit, stay engaged with my kids and friends......but as for my wife who I now understand is deep in MLC, I just can't find the off switch. After 25yrs together, an established family, mutual friends and family, going it alone is hard.
I'm having difficulty detaching....finding the off switch for her, Shock sis.....any suggestions please?
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Sis
I've asked this before but missed the answer post (if there was one.)
Did you ever tell the OM that you loved him and vice/versa? If so, did you believe that was true at the time?
Thanx again for your ears xxx
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Hi SIS,
The way you describe the ow/om pisses me off, but how I look at it it is his karma. This is what he deserves. I know he is going through a mlc, but this will teach the child man the importance of making good choices. Not my circus not my monkey.
Stand
THIS :-)
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Hi Mego
In my confused and fog addled brain I thought I loved om. I told him I loved him though that memory makes me feel nauseous tbh. It wasn’t love, to describe it (think more along the lines of teenage crush), in the beginning I felt a rush of excitement at the thought of chatting to him. At this point I was only chatting to him and it became emotionally connected but that was all I wanted in the beginning. He came across as strong and self assured, the total opposite of my ex h. At this time I believe I became addicted to om in that I couldn’t wait to get online to chat to him. He said all the right things and made me feel something instead of feeling nothing.
When I look back now I know at this point I was terrified of losing the om yet I didn’t want to lose my ex h. As time went on and ex h began to look weaker and more needy the om looked stronger than ever.
When he told me that I should tell my ex h I was planning to visit om as it was unfair on my ex h to deceive him I was very unsure about it but om said he would stop contacting me and that I would never hear from him again.
I was by this point totally absorbed by him and very vulnerable. If I had not been in MLC I would not have ever been interested in om but the fake love ran along side my fantasy life and om became my perfect man.
How stupid I was is still something I feel very embarrassed about. The feelings of “lurve “ didn’t last. I knew I had swapped gold for tin. I discovered that this person was absolutely nothing like the idealistic version I had created in my own head. The fog is a master of glossing over reality but once the holes in the dam wall began to appear and I couldn’t keep up with blocking them it was game over and I realised I had won the booby prize!
I learned the hard way that the real prize was my ex h and had been all along.
The om was like a parasite and he was weaker and more vulnerable than me it just took a long time to realise and then face up to that fact.
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Hi Stand Tall,
Of course it makes you angry because you have clarity of mind. Your MLCer absolutely does not. Vulnerability is key to the manipulative strategy of om/ow because without it your spouse would never even look at them let alone entertain the idea of blowing up their former lives.
We become different people and do a complete 180 degree turn around when in MLC. We do all the things we would never do and become everything we dislike in others. A trip on the crazy bus once the fog has a hold is unavoidable. That word time is coming up again but time is what it takes. I did another complete 180 to return to my normal self but I had to complete the journey first.
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Hi Chris
They are ALL controlling and highly manipulative. Think of a big black spider sitting in a web. They work their way in because your MLCer is probably about the most vulnerable they have ever been and these om/ow use all their skills of manipulative actions to draw them in. To become their “best friend “ and confidantes. They slowly but surely draw them in and the MLCer becomes convinced they cannot do without them. I daydreamed about om. He was my life until he wasn’t.
Confusion is a great advantage to om/ow and you can bet your life they will use that confusion to manipulate your spouses into believing they are looking out for them and protecting them from their awful spouses!!!
To try to convince your spouse is pointless it’s like they have been brainwashed and until they begin the awakening no good will come of wasting your time attempting to convince them.
Thank you so much for your response! you describe the ow so well, I think my x will stay with her no matter what only because he doesn't want to prove to everyone he screwed up big time, not that I care theres zero chance Im ever going to accept him back, Im not interested in him he's killed everything I have moved on, its just interesting to see how things will unfold, my daughter tells me she thinks he's starting to regret what he's done on some level, he's been going now for 5 yrs, he's most likely still in the 'fog'
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Did your ex throw truth darts? how did this make you feel? im sure you justified whatever the truth was but did you beleive your justification or did you know deep down ex was right? then running to om to make it all seem ok? did you know when you would run to om , you were avoiding the truth?
also could you explain the confusion in your head? the reason you needed to wear your headphones? what was going on in your head that the headphones would help drown out the noise? what was the "noise in your head" telling you?
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I learned the hard way that the real prize was my ex h and had been all along.
Just like the "Wizard of Oz"! In search of happiness and excitement, Dorothy lives out her fantasy life.....only to realize that she already had everything she ever wanted.
Thanx for your response. xxx
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Ss, during your fog did you put 2 and 2 together and figure out you had depression and visit the doctors for anti depressants?
Jack
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Did your ex throw truth darts? how did this make you feel? im sure you justified whatever the truth was but did you beleive your justification or did you know deep down ex was right? then running to om to make it all seem ok? did you know when you would run to om , you were avoiding the truth?
I'm SOOOO interested in the reply to this!
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Ss, during your fog did you put 2 and 2 together and figure out you had depression and visit the doctors for anti depressants?
Jack
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Did your ex throw truth darts? how did this make you feel? im sure you justified whatever the truth was but did you beleive your justification or did you know deep down ex was right?
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MY MLCer never actually used the word depression but before he left in April 2017, he often told me that he feels empty inside.
It`s very seldom that I have contact with him as he`s a V, unfortunately living just up the road with OW but at least he goes out of his way to avoid me, not sure why but reckon it`s either his guilty conscience nagging at him should he see me, or the fact that he doesn`t want to bump into his worst enemy but it`s more than likely the latter, as he`s still in Monster Modus, although he`s been living together with OW for the past 2 years!!!
The last time we spoke, he had no choice but to to call me about the nevending story with the flat (lease) about 2 months ago, I asked him how can he completely abandon the doggie, as he had always adored him. His response "I am unable to feel love for anybody".
Five months after he left, I told him he needed professional help. His response "I know but I`m ashamed".
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Hi Keep Believing
He probably did throw truth darts as the fog was descending and I immediately avoided them because I was sure I was the one telling the truth. As the fog got thicker anything he said to me was immediately discounted as lies because he was the enemy and he was trying to manipulate me. I didn’t believe anything he said as my fantasy world was honestly where I belonged and him trying to talk to me just brought out monster.
To live the complete lie of MLC became my true life and my pre MLC life was the thing that had crushed me and I had to avoid every single word he said because in my mind he was a liar!
I remember very little of much he said to me as it would not register as something in my head screamed liar he’s trying to control you.
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Hi Jackolar
At the very beginning I suspected I was depressed but thought I could cope. My ex h kept insisting I visit the doctor and to shut him up I did. I wore my sunglasses and headphones but removed the headphones in the Doctor’s office. He prescribed AD’s which I promptly flushed as I didn’t think I had anything wrong with me because at this point I had entered the fog.
I told my ex h the Doctor said I was just grieving and I would be ok. The early days of the fog started my lie extravaganza!!
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So, Shock Sis, why the lies, if you did what you felt was "right"? I could accept that my xh wanted a different life, but why keep up with the lying about it. Why not just own it and keep going ? Every lie he told was one more nail in his coffin where I was concerned. To me, the lies were even more disrespectful than the cheating.
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Hi SS, do you think the anti depressants would have helped if you took them. In your MLC condition did you ever consider harming your husband in a physical way. How was your alcohol consumption during this time, and did you make silly statements like mine did.
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Hi Beyond Blessed
When I was deep in MLC I would lie ALL of the time. I will try to explain but this is more difficult than you would imagine because a lot of it is mind blowing and hard to put into words.
The lies, especially to my ex h were told because of a combination of reasons. One was I would tell him things I thought he wanted to hear to get him to stop asking questions. I would lie to him because I didn’t want to let him completely go. I would lie to him because it stopped my guilt this was quite early in but when the fog arrived and didn’t leave it would convince me I wasn’t lying but he was! That my new fantasy life was the right one and my real life was false. That the words coming out of my mouth when the fog was thickest were totally true. I became very deceitful and didn’t want my ex h to know anything or very very little and so I would tell him only some if any of what I was doing. In the end I was living in a world of deceit and falsehood, fantasy and dreams, selfishness and no responsibilities.
Why then would I want to share my life with my ex h when he was my enemy, the one person I didn’t trust, the person responsible for my unhappiness, the person I was desperately trying to get away from. I lied and lied! I’m not even sure if part of it was to deliberately hurt him though that was in the anger stage as it changed to indifference.
But I lied to everyone not exclusively my ex h. Again I will ask why would I live a lie but tell the truth about it? This would be a paradox.
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Hi Jackolar
I really don’t know if AD’s would have helped as MLC has to run its course and I’m not totally convinced that AD’s would help I would think they would slow it down and make it take longer. I didn’t and wouldn’t take them anyway!
I didn’t drink alcohol as I’m not a drinker.
Yes I did sometimes feel like physically harming my ex h whilst he revved monster. He irritated me when he was begging and pleading or asking questions I didn’t want to answer and had no intention of answering.
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Hi Shocksis,
Again thank you for sharing what i’m sure are painful truths. Can you expand a little on the lying, for example lies to OM, friends (those who did and did not support your actions)? This is a hard question but what made you stop lying? How long (from awakening) before you were trustworthy?
Us LBS are encouraged not to snoop (verify) but my husband has come home, still with many issues but post-awakening and it’s difficult to know what is true. Did it take time to untangle lies to yourself? Did pride delay you in anyway?
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SS
Were you even aware that there was something different/wrong with you, or was it all just "business as usual?"
I am trying to imagine what my XH was thinking as he was getting married, what he's thinking now, and how he will feel once he snaps out of it. I would think that if he never felt there was a problem in the first place, he wouldn't even care. Am I right?
thanx xxx
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Thank you as always, Shocks sis — if it helps you in any way, h lied/lies not just to me but to most everyone, including total strangers he only knew for five minutes. The first year after moveaway, he recounted stories of these weird conversations and how he would just say little and let anyone guess as to who he was and what life he had lived.
I won’t recount them here but it seemed he was allowing the outer world to perceive whatever they perceived, and these perceptions then gave him some idea of different directions his life or character may have taken, or could take. As he was “away” anyway, and making house with ow, I was able to sit back and simply listen. None of this particular lying has any impact on me, and it was interesting to hear how he was showing up in his new life.
And of course for all I know, those stories he told may have been lies too. But still with a kernel of truth somehow. He shows up well and just cannot see it for himself. Yet.
An aside: I have recently come across old emails from our past life together. I’m not triggered by them, but don’t want to keep them. Kind of like just not wanting the evidence of anything bad. I feel similarly about a dried bouquet of roses he gave me in the early years. Previously I’d held onto these all as facts of us that I could see and refer to. Anymore, I just want to clear the space and make way for the new — whether just new me, or God willing, new us.
From your own post-MLC perspective, do you think it is ok to release these things of the old past? Some are really sweet, but I can’t help but think they will pale in comparison to anything we would give or make together in the future, if we reconnect.
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Hi SS, I sure do hope you get a shot at making things right with your former husband as you both need the closure to decide the next step forward and get some inner peace.
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Can you expand a little on the lying, for example lies to OM, friends (those who did and did not support your actions)? This is a hard question but what made you stop lying?
I have been aware since bd of the incredible ability to lie from my h. What is baffling is often these lies are completely unnecessary. He has lied to ow when it made no sense to do so and to me as well. I have become so used to them that I pay no attention but his latest lie reawakened my curiosity.
I am on the verge of listing our house for sale and there is lots to do to get ready. H is seldom around as he is on the other side of the country visiting ow for 50% of his time. I know this,, he knows I know this too. So when I asked him last week WHEN he was going to be around so he could clear out the garage, amongst other things,, he said he was going out of town to see a dear friend dying of cancer and would be back this week. I offered condolences and then said see you next week.
It turns out he didnt go see the sick friend. He was visiting ow instead. Why lie about this? I assumed he was going to see her until he lied otherwise. His ow didnt even know he was telling me the lie. So it makes no sense to me. This is an example of a type of lie he tells all the time when it seems to serve no one for any apparant reason. Does any of it make sense to you? Thanks Ss.
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I have found the H doesn't lie to me much. Instead he talks in riddles which I'm use to and can figure out what he is saying. He's been a lier all his life due to foo issues and I always told him that if he were honest with me I would not get mad over anything as long as he was honest, so it's now keeping secrets or talking in riddles. Because of this I just don't ask questions.
-Stand
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SS
Were you even aware that there was something different/wrong with you, or was it all just "business as usual?"
I am trying to imagine what my XH was thinking as he was getting married, what he's thinking now, and how he will feel once he snaps out of it. I would think that if he never felt there was a problem in the first place, he wouldn't even care. Am I right?
thanx xxx
Yes exactly, this is what I'm curious about Im wondering will it hit him like a ton of bricks or will he just think he's made a mistake and sit there in the $h!te created trying to make it work.
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Can you expand a little on the lying, for example lies to OM, friends (those who did and did not support your actions)? This is a hard question but what made you stop lying?
It turns out he didnt go see the sick friend. He was visiting ow instead. Why lie about this? I assumed he was going to see her until he lied otherwise. His ow didnt even know he was telling me the lie. So it makes no sense to me. This is an example of a type of lie he tells all the time when it seems to serve no one for any apparant reason. Does any of it make sense to you? Thanks Ss.
Yes, all of this. The lies are completely unnecessary and do seem to serve no purpose, except to ease the guilt they feel. I don't pretend to understand any of it.
But, I too, am curious, Shock Sis about how you were able to come full circle and stop with all the lying., if in fact, you believed it to be the truth for so long. And, again, I apologize if you've already answered this many times, but how long were you in crisis?
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I think they lie because their persona is fragmented and they are trying to re-establish a new persona by experimenting with various image management options available to them to find a good fit.
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When I was five yrs old my mother told me not to take a cookie from the cookie jar.
I wanted the cookie, so I took it anyways.
She asked me who took the cookie.
I knew taking the cookie was wrong, so I lied.
I didn’t want the consequences of telling the truth.
Too simple??
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When I was five yrs old my mother told me not to take a cookie from the cookie jar.
I wanted the cookie, so I took it anyways.
She asked me who took the cookie.
I knew taking the cookie was wrong, so I lied.
I didn’t want the consequences of telling the truth.
Too simple??
No, not too simple if there are perceived consequences for telling the truth. What about the lies that serve no-one? Not even the liar? The lies told when there are no consequences for being truthful? Why lie when being truthful is neither right nor wrong but just neutral?
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No, not too simple if there are perceived consequences for telling the truth. What about the lies that serve no-one? The lies told when there are no consequences for being truthful? Why lie when being truthful is neither right nor wrong but just neutral?
The lies may seem pointless to us, but not to MLCers. Anything remotely (like 1000,000miles) to do with OW or A was enough to make my H lie. Guilty conscience and the fear of consequences.
I don’t think we can apply our judgement as to the consequences/purpose of lies to the way MLCer perceives them.
Thank goodness, H does not blame the fog or messed up thinking (crisis, you know) for his lies. If he did, I know he is still in MLC and the blaming mode is switched on.
Lies are conscious decisions made by a person. There is no lie manufacturing machine outside MLCer’s head.
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When I was five yrs old my mother told me not to take a cookie from the cookie jar.
I wanted the cookie, so I took it anyways.
She asked me who took the cookie.
I knew taking the cookie was wrong, so I lied.
I didn’t want the consequences of telling the truth.
Too simple??
No, not too simple if there are perceived consequences for telling the truth. What about the lies that serve no-one? Not even the liar? The lies told when there are no consequences for being truthful? Why lie when being truthful is neither right nor wrong but just neutral?
Mine did the stupid lies that didn’t matter also.
Bury us in BS and maybe we will stop asking. If you tell me the truth 50% of the time, I might keep badgering you for answers.
Less questions, less consequences.
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When I was five yrs old my mother told me not to take a cookie from the cookie jar.
I wanted the cookie, so I took it anyways.
She asked me who took the cookie.
I knew taking the cookie was wrong, so I lied.
I didn’t want the consequences of telling the truth.
Too simple??
No, not too simple if there are perceived consequences for telling the truth. What about the lies that serve no-one? The lies told when there are no consequences for being truthful? Why lie when being truthful is neither right nor wrong but just neutral?
The lies may seem pointless to us, but not to MLCers. Anything remotely (like 1000,000miles) to do with OW or A was enough to make my H lie. Guilty conscience and the fear of consequences.
I don’t think we can apply our judgement as to the consequences/purpose of lies to the way MLCer perceives them.
Thank goodness, H does not blame the fog or messed up thinking (crisis, you know) for his lies. If he did, I know he is still in MLC and the blaming mode is switched on.
Lies are conscious decisions made by a person. There is no lie manufacturing machine outside MLCer’s head.
I agree with all of this. There are perceived consequences.
"I'm going to visit OW for a week."
In MLCer's head, the response from LBS will be either a) anger, b) sadness, c) a truth dart, d) complete indifference.
All of those responses would/could elicit some emotion from the MLCer that they don't want to feel.
Therefore, they simply lie and avoid any possible consequence.
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I agree with all of this. There are perceived consequences.
"I'm going to visit OW for a week."
In MLCer's head, the response from LBS will be either a) anger, b) sadness, c) a truth dart, d) complete indifference.
All of those responses would/could elicit some emotion from the MLCer that they don't want to feel.
Therefore, they simply lie and avoid any possible consequence.
Totally agree with Nas.
It’s all about MLCer. Lies serve them in some way.
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I agree and always thought it was very strange my H didn't lie about anything. If I asked him he told me the brutal truth, so there were times I didn't ask him because I didn't want to hear the truth.
I wonder why some don't lie.
My take on it was, at the time he had no feelings for me so why lie? He was emotionally shut down.
If it hurt me, it hurt me. He even one time was getting ready to go somewhere and when I asked him where he was going he told me to sign up for a dating service (we were still married and living together). Like he was talking abut the weather. ::)
Talk about shock!
Anyone else have a MLCer who didn't lie?
Sorry SS, I don't imagine you have any answer for this, just wanted to put it out there.
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My h told his ow a completely unnecessary lie shortly after bd. He was still living here and it was the week of our grandsons birthday and he was going to be dropped off by his parents to spend the afternoon with us. There was a last minute reschedule so he was not here. Later that evening, h called ow and when she asked how the visit went, he lied and answered her question as if he had been here. A completely made up visit with grandson that never happened. She lives 2000 mi away so its not like he could have spent time with her instead when the visit was cancelled. I cannot think of one reason why h would not have simply told her the truth. This is an example of (in my mind) a lie that serves absolutely no purpose. Grandson visiting or not, could not have had any impact whatsoever on ow, or me, or even himself. What consequence was he possibly hoping to avoid?
He has lied many times since then, but this one lie really sticks in my mind because it is just so pointless. Prior to bd I believed he was truthful man. Or was he? I wonder sometimes if he was never the man I thought he was prior to bd.
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Anon, maybe in his MLC mind, it wasn't a pointless lie. Maybe he was afraid that from 2000 miles away, if he told OW about the last minute reschedule, she would become suspicious that he was doing something else and he didn't want to risk her getting upset or questioning him. We really can never know, but I truly do believe that each lie they tell has a "purpose" in their minds.
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Anon, in my h’s case, he lied outright or by omission to ow because although she was whatever enough to be a thorn in our lives, she was absolutely not worthy of our truths. You’d think that would eliminate her from the equation entirely. Anyhow, it was enlightening to learn that he protected us in that way. I still don’t like the lying, though, and I hope it all stops someday and we can rely post-MLC on full integrity. I’d say your h was doing his best to keep your grandson out of the MLC arena in any way he could.
In MLCer's head, the response from LBS will be either a) anger, b) sadness, c) a truth dart, d) complete indifference.
All of those responses would/could elicit some emotion from the MLCer that they don't want to feel.
Therefore, they simply lie and avoid any possible consequence.
This is my full response every time. ALL the things, whether I say them to him or not. So I know that’s why my h lies to me. :(
Spot on, Nas.
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I think they lie because their persona is fragmented and they are trying to re-establish a new persona by experimenting with various image management options available to them to find a good fit.
Jackolar, this is my perception also. Thank you for putting it so well.
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I wonder if this lying while in MLC was actually a trait they had before the MLC but managed to be smarter and less obvious about their lies.
This latest lie my h spun was that he was visiting a dying friend on one side of the country when he was really visiting ow on the other side of the country. He visits her all the time, common knowledge, so why suddenly after 2+ years switch it up and lie about where he is going? I didnt even ask where he was going - he just offered up the lie. The other notable thing with this lie is that it is so easily exposed that he had to know I would know he was lying and very soon too. Is this MLC that leads them to do this? Or is this just really who they are and during MLC they get more sloppy and stupid with the lies?
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wonder if this lying while in MLC was actually a trait they had before the MLC but managed to be smarter and less obvious about their lies.
LOL!!!
Maybe - I always knew that my exhole was a sports team fan chameleon. Turns out he's also an identity chameleon (Right now his is as a "small-town country boy.")
So, if his entire personality is fake.....does that qualify as a "lie"?
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My h told his ow a completely unnecessary lie shortly after bd. He was still living here and it was the week of our grandsons birthday and he was going to be dropped off by his parents to spend the afternoon with us. There was a last minute reschedule so he was not here. Later that evening, h called ow and when she asked how the visit went, he lied and answered her question as if he had been here. A completely made up visit with grandson that never happened. She lives 2000 mi away so its not like he could have spent time with her instead when the visit was cancelled. I cannot think of one reason why h would not have simply told her the truth. This is an example of (in my mind) a lie that serves absolutely no purpose. Grandson visiting or not, could not have had any impact whatsoever on ow, or me, or even himself. What consequence was he possibly hoping to avoid?
He has lied many times since then, but this one lie really sticks in my mind because it is just so pointless. Prior to bd I believed he was truthful man. Or was he? I wonder sometimes if he was never the man I thought he was prior to bd.
Seems to me if he wasn’t where he was supposed to be, he would have had to been “on call”, probably his only chance for peace for even a few hours.
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Seems to me if he wasn’t where he was supposed to be, he would have had to been “on call”, probably his only chance for peace for even a few hours.
Possibly, but I dont think there were that many calls between them in those early days
I stumbled across this thread from 2018, about lies: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10045.0
I am going to bump it up so any on-going discussion can continue on that thread.
But Ss,,, when you have a minute, can you tell us what goes on in the MLC mind when they tell these seemingly pointless lies?
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Hi Shock’s Sis,
Have you thought about becoming a member of the forum? Then you can have your own moniker and won’t have to borrow your sister’s!
I think it can get confusing to have 2 people signing in under one membership and sharing 2 separate stories, unless one has been following them for a while.
Just a suggestion. :)
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Hi Shock’s Sis,
Have you thought about becoming a member of the forum? Then you can have your own moniker and won’t have to borrow your sister’s!
I think it can get confusing to have 2 people signing in under one membership and sharing 2 separate stories, unless one has been following them for a while.
Just a suggestion. :)
I'm going to second this very good suggestion. It was one thing when you were replying in a different color only on one thread. It was somewhat easy to tell the difference between you and your sister. But now that you are also reading/responding to other threads, it's confusing and I know I for one have at different times thought I was reading shocked when it was actually you and vice versa.
Down the road, folks will be looking to read the insight from you as a past MLCer and it's going to be confusing for them to weed through it all since you and shocked are both posting under the same username.
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Can I add a third! You are very welcome.
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Well for the record mine will lie about going for a coffee whilst holding the coffee cup so.. ::)
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I'm also interested in the lying question. My X lied over the most inconsequential things while in crisis. When we would visit his parents they would ask him an insignificant question and he'd outright lie. When I confronted him he couldn't really say why. I mean, it was really stupid stuff like "where did you go for dinner" instead of saying the steakhouse he'd tell them we went for Chinese. It was strange.
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Same with my xH! It was the little things that were the most confounding. I asked him once when he was kind of lucid after BD2 why he lied so much and he said he didn't know why, but that once he started, "it just got easier." ???
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Thunder, my H isn't a liar much either. If he lies, its by omission - just leaves out a few facts.
Anon; My H went through a stage where he would tell us he was going to visit ow like he was buying eggs. Then he left out the details of where he was going for the weekend and we soon worked it out (daughter has Find my friends app with him). Then he took me out for breakfast the last 2 times he was going to see her to tell me that he was going to see her (in the spirit of honesty). Then I suspect he saw her again during a work trip and he sort of missed out on the fact that he was in that town. Not that I really cared.
My take on it was that his head has been turned toward home for a while now and she became the other woman again instead of the main squeeze. This time, not in a good way. I think the lie became a burden rather than an excitement - as most lies do eventually.
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I wonder if this lying while in MLC was actually a trait they had before the MLC but managed to be smarter and less obvious about their lies.
This latest lie my h spun was that he was visiting a dying friend on one side of the country when he was really visiting ow on the other side of the country. He visits her all the time, common knowledge, so why suddenly after 2+ years switch it up and lie about where he is going? I didnt even ask where he was going - he just offered up the lie. The other notable thing with this lie is that it is so easily exposed that he had to know I would know he was lying and very soon too. Is this MLC that leads them to do this? Or is this just really who they are and during MLC they get more sloppy and stupid with the lies?
Anon -
I think this is a very pertinent question.
Joe Beam (Marriage Helper) says that in order to consider taking your spouse back, you need to determine if he/she is a good person doing a bad thing, or a bad person doing a bad thing...
Just food for thought...
Sea
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My h lies still 4.5 yrs later. He once told me he lied to shut me up from asking questions. He lied to a price other woman as she is jealous of our children. Even this weekend just last, h was due to see the kids and I knew he would cancel as I don’t think ow knows he is seeing his kids, she certainly doesn’t know he texts his wife even when on holiday with ow. H text sat eve to cancel as he had a bad back which really meant, ow has plans and I must do that instead, the fortnight before it was helping a friend move house! On a Sunday!!
Hi ss, I know each mlcer is different and my question may not have an answer. My h is currently texting me via a secret phone I have. He will avoid texts re his divorce, finances and kids but ask me about diy and even became angry and stated my father shouldn’t be doing diy in HIS house. Yest texts were about a picnic loaf i had made. My question would be do you recognise any of my h behaviour and relate to it in any way and what h behaviour could possibly mean. Probably just weird behaviour as usual. Was mostly a Vanisher for the last 2 yrs even though lives minutes away but had a coffee outside my home last week but wouldn’t come in but I could see he was torn if to or not. Xx
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When I was five yrs old my mother told me not to take a cookie from the cookie jar.
I wanted the cookie, so I took it anyways.
She asked me who took the cookie.
I knew taking the cookie was wrong, so I lied.
I didn’t want the consequences of telling the truth.
Too simple??
In my case, there are no more consequences to him telling the truth, and he damn well knows it. The worst consequence has already been served up to him......a life void of me and filled with OW. This is all water under the bridge and we have had virtually no contact since he left in 2016, yet the one conversation we had was still riddled with lies and still all about him. Wtf, dude?
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Anon ,
My wife never lied either.Two days after BD I noticed she was filling out paperwork. I asked what she was doing she said "I'm getting my tubes tied". I have a vasectomy!!! Then when we moved ( still living together) I went early to get the house ready for her and the kids. She tells me when she gets there she has found someone and that she has to live in her truth ! I can't make this up.
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I dont know where all the female MLCR's get the "Live my truth" or "Be my authentic self," from. I think modern pop psychology and new age spirituality is doing a number on some of them. Of course, that doesnt excuse decades of men doing the same exact stuff.
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Everything. that "Disillusioned" just said.
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I didn’t want the consequences of telling the truth.
Too simple??
Not to me. I would say, spot on. I see the lying as a self-defense mechanism.
Mr J lied for months before he left about being in an affair. He is a terrible liar, I was already suspicious, his lying confirmed it. If I hadn't got an anonymous phone call telling about him and OW1 he was going to pretent the whole thing had started after he left. As if I would had believed it.
I don't remember many small lies, the lies I remember were about big things. What Mr J has start to do at a certain point into his crisis is become all secretive, like telling were he lives. At times he even lied to court about where he lived because he didn't want to say. He gave court an address he had never lived at or used his work one. Bad luck. Every time I needed to know where he lived for legal reasons I would ask our former accountant. Once my lawyer requested Mr J presented proof he really lived where he said he did. He had none.
Other lies, all he claimed I did on his court divorce documents. He was asked by judges time and time again to proved proof what he claimed. He had none. His lawyers (he has had several) had to tell the judge their client had no proof. Usually, at that point, the lawyers used to get rid of him.
I dont know where all the female MLCR's get the "Live my truth" or "Be my authentic self," from
Male LBS do the same and say the same. They say they are living their truth and being their authentic self. Our authentic self does exist, but it is not the MLC version nor is it what people tend to think it is. It is and advanced meditation concept and has nothing to do with the way people used it as an excuse to behave bad.
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During the MLC Tsunami all responsibility is jumbled up together with their hormones, thoughts and behaviours. Their fantasies get to be acted out with the OM/OW so their euphoric for a long while. They get to direct their own low budget/actor movie and take the starring role no wonder they spend so much time in the tunnel having fun as it is better than reality. I think they revert to play as a form of therapy of happy memories in their past when they were bubble gum chewers.
New thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11029.0