[Treasur]

I agree with a lot of what Ready and Anjae has said.
Without rehashing the details, if a spouse chooses to exclude you from information on their medical care, nothing you can do here in the UK. I have my own opinions about how well - or not - my STBXH's choices have worked for him but of course I know very little about his treatment or medication or behaviour with other people or bits of his life. He told me a little in the first few months. He's told me a few things in the last few months. But he lies a lot and I haven't seen him for 18 months, so there's no way to know what's really happening or what's true. I suppose logically, after over 2 years, I think he should be behaving differently...I remember him living happily without a psychiatrist or drugs for 18 years, and a lot of his behaviour seems pretty odd still....but it's just my opinion and not based on much info at all.

The big issue for me about all of this - and I do understand the deep need to grasp at the cause or see if understanding what's happening in a different way creates more alternative choices for how an LBS acts - is that it doesn't change the reality of what is and it risks investing energy that an LBS can more productively invest elsewhere in their life.

It seems to me that there is a point where trying to understand is helpful, and then beyond that it just keeps our eyes focused on things we can't change or influence. Just my opinion.

[bvFTD]

I think it matters a great deal if they have a serious psychiatric or neurological disorder, particularly when it comes to child custody. Disordered people and the equally disturbed people they start associating with can cause a great deal of damage to our children.

Do you know that divorce rates have fallen in all age groups except for those in midlife? A Canadian neurologist who specializes in ftd mentions the stat in her lectures. Red flag is a change of spouse.

It is my fervent hope that family lawyers will stop arrogantly and lazily thinking breakups are boilerplate, but instead start listening carefully to the reasons behind the destruction of formerly happy and satisfying marriages, and be as alarmed as we are at our spouse's new shocking and uncharacteristic behaviors, followed by ordering the Abandoner to undergo a psych eval to prove he is fit to be a parent.

These so-called Family Courts do not seem to have the best interests of children in mind at all.

[xyzcf]

Treasur, this is so very true:

“that it doesn't change the reality of what is and it risks investing energy that an LBS can more productively invest elsewhere in their life.

It seems to me that there is a point where trying to understand is helpful, and then beyond that it just keeps our eyes focused on things we can't change or influence. “

Heartsblessing used to say “ let them blow in the wind and crack their heads”.  This really is their journey. Like someone who has an addiction, they will not change until they themselves  make the decision to do so, or the crisis resolved itself in ways that are not clearly understood but which does happen.

I also think it is dangerous to be suggesting so many clinical diagnosis when these posters are not qualified medical professionals. It reminds me of being a hyperchondriac only searching endlessly for  yet another diagnosis to cling to.

And this clinging does not allow the LBSer to focus on their life and their growth. As has been mentioned hundreds of times, MLC ends at some point and they do return to normal behavior. That is the reality of MLC.

[Ready2Transform]

It's a Catch-22 because we have no idea who will return to sanity 5 years down the road, and who is a ticking time bomb with a serious problem that should addressed. There are likely both cases (and much more in the gray area!) represented on this forum due to our stories having similarities, but also being unique to our own circumstances. We just have to be kind with one another and know that we all have the same goals at the end of the day. If marriages, families, and lives can be saved, we all want that. We all want LBSs to be strong and whole again. And we all have a different way of expressing that and coping with our grief. Study helped me for part of my journey, self-focus for another, so I get both sides. Many of us at the 5+ year point may be encouraging self-focus more because we're now aware of how much time we spent MLCer focused that we can't get back, and we want to save others that frustration. But ultimately, everybody will have to walk their own path with it.

[bvFTD]

Psychiatric Advisor

Bipolar Disorder and Association with Immune Dysfunction

"Increased risk of general comorbities (GMC) in patients with bipolar disorder (BD) may be mediated by immune dysfunction. The life expectancy of individuals with BD is approximately 11 to 20 years fewer than that of the general population, which is believed to be caused primarily by the elevated prevalence if GMC in BD. For example, cardiovascular disease is more common in individuals with BD vs healthy controls and individuals with other mental disorders, and it is the top cause of mortality in BD. Additionally, diabetes-related death is more common in individuals with BD compared with the general population . . .

To clarify the mechanisms underlying the association between BD and GMc, the authors aimed to explore the role of metabolic-inflammatory dysfunction and related treatment implications. They summarized epidemiological research showing a high prevalence of comorbid inflammatory conditions in BD, including numerous allergies, asthma, metabolic syndrome and numerous autoimmune diseases such as Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, erythematosus and autoimmune thyroiditis."

[Thunder]

Ftd, if you think lawyers are going to start caring whether spouse is ill or not you'll be waiting a long time.  Lawyers could care less.  Just want their money..and I suppose realistically they really should be removed from emotions when dealing with a D.  I mean they do just hearing one side of the story.  They can only assume there is another side to it.
But it's not their business to get involved on a personal level.

Something needs to change, but it "ain't" gonna be the lawyers.

I also agree with treasur, xyzcf.

[Velika]

Treasur, this is so very true:

“that it doesn't change the reality of what is and it risks investing energy that an LBS can more productively invest elsewhere in their life.

It seems to me that there is a point where trying to understand is helpful, and then beyond that it just keeps our eyes focused on things we can't change or influence. “

Heartsblessing used to say “ let them blow in the wind and crack their heads”.  This really is their journey. Like someone who has an addiction, they will not change until they themselves  make the decision to do so, or the crisis resolved itself in ways that are not clearly understood but which does happen.

I also think it is dangerous to be suggesting so many clinical diagnosis when these posters are not qualified medical professionals. It reminds me of being a hyperchondriac only searching endlessly for  yet another diagnosis to cling to.

And this clinging does not allow the LBSer to focus on their life and their growth. As has been mentioned hundreds of times, MLC ends at some point and they do return to normal behavior. That is the reality of MLC.

We are saying go to a doctor. At least try to go to a doctor! Just try this real life option.

You don’t have to be a qualified medical professional to say, go to a doctor. Try to have this checked out.

[xyzcf]

We are saying go to a doctor. At least try to go to a doctor! Just try this real life option.

You don’t have to be a qualified medical professional to say, go to a doctor. Try to have this checked out.

As has been repeatedly stated, many, many of our spouses have seen doctors and nothing has been identified, nor have their conditions deteriorated.

As well, you cannot make someone "go to a doctor", especially not someone who is having a mid life crisis.

Have you been successful at getting your husband to see a doctor?

[Velika]

No I was not because when this started I thought he was having an existential crisis/affair. So I went to a marriage counselor and other therapists — with him — and attempted over and over again to reason with him.

Because I had no tools or direction or medical understanding of the time, I did not have language that might have helped communicate that this was or could be a medical emergency. I didn’t know which things to emphasize. These include:

Flat affect.
Radical personality change.
Mania/euphoria.
Sleeplessness
hypersexuality
Family history of unipolar and bipolar depression.
Recent new SSRI.
Long term use klonipin in tandem with SSRI without psychiatrist oversight.
Radical change to spending patterns.
Loss of empathy.
Change to eye, speech pattern, and humor.

I would have used the slim window of opportunity I had when he agreed to go to a counselor with me to go to a psychiatrist counselor. I also would have used his clinging behaviors to attempt to find a time when he was having meltdown to call 911.

So while yes it may be a long shot and there is the issue of timing, I think there is a right way to approach it for best outcome. It is worth at least a try.

[Anjae]

I wish I could disagree, but I don't. My xH saw his medical doctor, his psychiatrist, and a therapist all within a six month span when he was first ramping up in symptoms. He desperately wanted to be better. He got horribly worse.

Would it have gotten even worse without medical intervention? I have no clue.

Impossible to know if your husband would had got worst without medical help. But it is a fact medical help didn't work and make him become worst than he was.

Anjae:

It is imperative we take our spouses to a neurologist at a University Hospital.

No, it isn't. MLC does not require a neurologist. In my opinion, it may required a good GP versed in hormones, especially the many effects of cortisol and adrenaline, and who is capable of asking for blood tests including vitamin and mineral levels.

Also, here, you can't just go to a neurologist at a University Hospital. We have a National Health Service, the University Hospitals are state owened.

We don't just decide, oh, I want the University Hospital neurologist. Those are for people that are refered by their GP, or their psychiatrist, or for people who had strokes or any other medical condition and where treated on a University Hospital, or another NHS hospital that may think people need a neurologist in one of those. There aren't those many University Hospitals neurologists here.

I wonder if the psychiatrist Treasur's husband is seeing has given him mental status tests, a MRI, SPECT or PET scan, talked with Treasur about personality changes, checked reflexes and for frontal release signs, or even asked him to draw a CLOCK.

Don't know how it is in the UK, here, as a general rule, psychiatrists do not do/ask for those tests. A GP may do. Both a psychiatrist of a GP can recommend a person to see a neurogist. Phychiatrists don't tend to ask for any tests, maybe aside blood tests to exclude thyroid problems.

Draw a clock? I can assure Mr J is perfectly capable of drawing a clock. So was my cousin. I can also assure Mr J, MLC aside, is fine. There is no degerenative illness.

Do you know that divorce rates have fallen in all age groups except for those in midlife? A Canadian neurologist who specializes in ftd mentions the stat in her lectures. Red flag is a change of spouse.

Where? I don't live in the US. Our divorce rate is much higher than 50%, more around 70%.

A change in spouse may mean many things other than  ftd. Thyroid problems, depression, issues caused for lack of sleep, peri-menopause and menopause, etc. FTD is not the only thing that changes a spouse.

Layers couldn't care less. They make money out of divorces. Also, here, if a person wants to divorce someone with a mental illness of neuroligical degenerative disease, the person wanting to divorce will have to support the ill person for life. I fail to see how going for a psychatric diagnose or a neurological degenerative one for the MLCer would benefit anyone in my country. It wouldn't.

Different countries, different, laws. Same for divorce rates. I have written in several places that here, most young people do not marry, and a second marriage is rare, and getting rarer. People live together.

April 16, 2018, 06:47:09 PM »
It's a Catch-22 because we have no idea who will return to sanity 5 years down the road, and who is a ticking time bomb with a serious problem that should addressed.

Return to sanity in 5 years? For most MLCers that will not happen in 5 years. Maybe in 7, or 10 or 15. 5 years is short for many MLC crisis. I don't really think it is a catch 22 for most, if not nearly all MLCers. MLCers are having a MLC.

Flat affect.
Radical personality change.
Mania/euphoria.
Sleeplessness
hypersexuality
Family history of unipolar and bipolar depression.
Recent new SSRI.
Long term use klonipin in tandem with SSRI without psychiatrist oversight.
Radical change to spending patterns.
Loss of empathy.
Change to eye, speech pattern, and humor.

This are all pretty much standard MLC signs, or even depression signs, aside from the "Long term use klonipin in tandem with SSRI without psychiatrist oversight". The "Recent new SSRI" may, or may, have anything to do with it.

Most MLCers are not on a SSRI nor where at BD or after. People not in MLC also have problems with SSRI. They may, or may not, have anything to do with it.

You keep writing that bv and I don’t believe in MLC but that’s not true. The description and dynamics RCR writes are very accurate. However, there is currently no true medical description for MLC, even when there are tons of breakthroughs in brain research.

You don't. Bv goes around people threads saying their spouses have bvFTD, therefore, if they have bvFTD they do not have MLC. She has even gone so far as writing that MLC does not exist. You have also said something similar.

There was no medical description of many illnesses for years on end. It did not mean they didn't exist. So far, breakthroughs in brain research have done little to nothing when it comes to mental illness. They also haven't done much for dementias, aside from Parkinson's, some treatments reduce, or prevent the sympthoms from spreading. No brain research as yet solved Alzeimer's, for example (sadly, as my paternal grandmother has  it and is getting worst and worst).

Yes, there are brain surgeries that where not possible in the past, there are many exciting things being discovered, but many things still don't have a solution. One day I am certain they will.