[Standing Strong]

Something that I've been curious about, that hasn't made sense to me is why are mental/medical professionals unwilling to call MLC..... MLC?

I was watching an old episode of Marriage Helper on YouTube last night (They are really good) and they read off a question from a viewer about MLC.
The guy (Joe) says.... "There's no such thing as MLC".  "What people call MLC can happen anytime at any age, and it's just people trying to put the problem in a box".... "What people say is MLC is just grief from an unfulfilled dream and the reality of it not coming true: It's grief".
Maybe on some simple level this is correct, or maybe more correct in terms of an MLT....... but absolutely not correct in the throws of a major neurological catastrophe which is true MLC.

I was thinking about that (a little surprised) but then began to thing of all the professionals I've talked to: MD's, counselors, therapists..... all of them shy away from "MLC". Why is that? Their own little orthodoxy and we're all heretics?

The MD I talked to: Explaining how his fellow MD's wife went berserk and blew up their life in a most confusing way "We never figured out what happened with her".
The counselor: "I've never heard about this before..... can you tell me more?".
The Therapist: "We don't call it that (MLC), but we know something happens inside the mind".
DB Coach: "MLC is a lack of intimacy, you have to build that up". 
Pastor: "It's the devil"

A case of confounding the "wise"?
Arrogance? You play in my sandbox or not at all?
All have aspects of the truth, but none have the "big picture".
I suspect it comes down to perspective.

It's just so strange that for something so widespread, it is either dismissed or taken for something else entirely. Bad training? Refusal to see something which defies knowledge?

Why do you think the professionals are so lost, and what ridiculous lines have you been fed by them?

Not to say LBS's know everything, but what is taught here is correct and the pros are ignorant in this area.

-SS (MLC Heretic.... LOL!!)

[marvin4242]

SS: trauma therapists are not lost about this and if not talking to layman can easily decompose what we call MLC to multiple underlying conditions and states, they cam discuss what may have been at the root, what starts happening, what behaviours happen when it all triggers fully. I could talk to one therapist who could finish my sentences about what my wife is doing and how she looks etc. The trauma therapist was not lost at all and we would discuss the actual underlying mechanisms.

But MLC is not a diagnostic condition, it is a more “layman” description of a set of things that happen. It covers both a spectrum of disorders and intensities, and it sits on top of existing personality traits. And it is not a condition trained in psychology, so it can’t be diagnosed and sometimes therapists have not experienced the full onset of this reaction from their work (like a marriage councilor or someone who only deals with non PTSD or non trauma patients).

So they have a hard time believing it, specially when it comes from layman descriptions.

[AlvinTheMaker]

I think your question already contains the answer    People shy away because of... fear.

The name of MLC has been widely killed off in scientific publications.  If a person of science admits MLC is real.... you basically lose your creditability in eyes of peers.  And for person of science.... creditability is everything.

Of course this creates the chicken vs. egg dilemna.  Things cannot change unless somebody does some new research on topic that popularizes an alternative perspective.

Alvin.
 

[OffRoad]

I think part of it is that people are only as good as their own experience and what they actually draw from that experience. If I put my hand in the fire and get burned, I extrapolate that the fire is what made my hand hurt and get blistered. But what if someone else held my hand in the fire. Will I extrapolate that the fire is what made my hand hurt and get blistered, or that the person holding my hand in the fire is what made my hand hurt and get blistered? Depends on my experience (and age and intelligence quotient, but that is another story). And in actuality in the latter case, imo, both would be true, but that doesn't mean I still can't get burned by fire without someone holding my hand in it, and that doesn't mean that a person can't find a different way to burn me without the fire. Just like if you have never experienced a spouse leaving you in this crazy way, you might have no comprehension of it.

Examples:

The MD I talked to: Explaining how his fellow MD's wife went berserk and blew up their life in a most confusing way "We never figured out what happened with her".

The explanation is right there. He never figured it out, therefore he has no name for it.

The counselor: "I've never heard about this before..... can you tell me more?".

Until I experienced it, I hadn't heard about it.  Not even the joke about the red sports car. That was never on my radar. Maybe not the counselor's either.

The Therapist: "We don't call it that (MLC), but we know something happens inside the mind".

So what do "they" call it then? "Something that happens inside the mind that makes someone become a self entitled, self absorbed, self indulgent narcissistic individual who thinks their happiness means they need to stop being a decent human being to the person who promised to love and honor them until death do they part"? My goodness, that's a pretty long diagnosis title. I could go for Mid Life temporary Insanity, BTW.

DB Coach: "MLC is a lack of intimacy, you have to build that up". 

It's a theory. And if that is your only experience, it's all you have. The second part I don't quite get, because how do you build up something that was blown to bits and you can't even find the bits because the MLCer is hiding them from you, but perhaps there is a thought process there somewhere.

Pastor: "It's the devil"

Again, what other experience might this pastor have had?

So is this reluctance to call it MLC? In some cases, maybe yes because there is no diagnostic criteria for it. In other cases, no experience, so how can you call it anything if you have no idea.

For all the talk about not wanting to put people in "boxes", most people cannot handle it unless there is a nice, neat box to put some behavior in. Which goes to Alvin's theory of "fear".  If I can put this person in that box, and I don't fit in that box, then I will never have that problem. Whew!  Or What criteria would fit into the DSM-5, except if I do that these people now have a mental disorder, and is that valid if it is temporary? And why is it temporary for some people and not for others? And how can I find out if the person who comes in to talk to me is lying, or their perspective is skewed......where can you get objective input?

Plus, lets face it. *Sarcasm alert on*  People just fall out of love, you know. *Sarcasm alert off*.

But back to experience, every time my mother would go to her GP, he put her on blood pressure medication. Every time she ended up in the hospital for some reason, they took her off because they could not understand why she was on it, especially with the multiple side effects she got with taking it. (at 82 her BP without medication was 136/75-hardly high). For whatever reason, her GP thought 136/75 was cause for taking medication in an 82 year old woman where the medication also caused a need for two other medications while she took it. The doctors and nurses at the hospital didn't agree that three medications for 136/75 was a good choice. Differing experiences and opinions. (My mother just did whatever Dr. of the day said )

[Granite]

Seeing as I am just exiting a feverish couple of days I’ll admit I’m going to be snarky….so..

1. I have yet to meet a Psychologist of Psychiatrist, be it a friend or aquaintance, that is willing or able to “Think outside of the Box”.
2. The “Box” is the DSM.  If it is not official it does not exist.
3. They, just like us, have no ability to treat-fix-help-guide an MLC’r.  That being the case there is no business for them and if by chance they were    to accept a person has MLC and take them on they would be destined to fail. Furthering the belief it must be something else then.

  A very good friend, who is a Psychologist, know’s the Wife and always asks me what’s up. I try to tell him a little bit but he looks so confused.  Thankfully he has asked no question as of late.  Next time he does though I am going to point out that I have tried to explain things to him, yet he refuses to accept.  Therefore he needs to research MLC thoroughly before asking me again.

 My apologies to Thundar.  As I remember he is a trained professional who has had first hand experience.  I guess I just haven’t met a believer in person yet.

Given that Thundar is a trained professional I would be very interested on his take of this topic.

Thundar, what say you?

[Caroline]

I have only met three people who have heard of MLC outside of the typical buy a new car etc.. but the real aspects of MLC.. one is my dads best friend who is a retired christian psychologist... he told me that I have a choice to leave him or to ride it out as long as I could handle it but it could take years.. my current C knows about it... he does trauma since his background deals with military, ptsd act.. he knows it is real...
and then one lady I met whose first husband had MLC..

I know that for me finally getting a name for what I was experiencing in my home with H and getting support from you all has been invaluable..
His family and many friends just think he just unhappy and wants a divorce...
It is just easy to try to rationalize for people that can't see the whole picture

[Treasur]

I agree that I have only encountered two types of people who 'get' what we call MLC; those who have experienced it first hand or (like us) second hand and professionals who specialise in trauma.

Actually if you look at most of the books or research about it, they are also usually written by people (including Elliot Jacques, Conway and our own RCR) who had some personal experience of it.

I suspect it comes down to a combination of the DSM and that mental health professionals base their diagnosis on self-reported thoughts and behavioural symptoms. And a lot of what we call MLC is a cluster of symptoms that also fit in with other diagnoses. Quite a few folks here have had spouses who have been diagnosed with depression or as being bipolar, say, and others with cluster b personality disorders bc that is what the presenting behavioural patterns look like. As a spouse, no one seems to be much interested in your layman's cry that 'but they truly did not used to be like this' or 'isn't this a bit nuts'...... There is no baseline of who they were before.....and as LBS we maybe only see the contrast with that baseline which is why our head feels like it has been put in a blender.....but even then, most of us flail around trying to label it and doubting our own judgment about if there is even an 'it' to label. And tbh that seems to include quite a few LBS here who have professional expertise in psychology, counselling or healthcare.

It is probably not unlike the experience of those who suffer ME/CFS.....a collection of symptoms that don't fit a standard diagnostic box.....many people have suffered the life-altering affects while being pooh-poohed by medical folks. Yet in RL someone knows that something is going on, that something has changed in how their body works from how it did before. As do people around them. Not dissimilar to how many people are experiencing long-terms symptoms after Covid that don't fit the initial expectations perhaps.....yet bc we have a label called Covid, and there are quite a few of them, more people are open-minded that there may indeed be long-term post-viral effects that we don't quite know enough about yet. But tbh, even in that context, not all medical folks see it that way.

And most MLCers don't seem to think there is anything wrong with them....and if they do, they rarely seem to tell the truth when they are experiencing MLC so those that seek professional help are usually diagnosed based on their self-reporting of symptoms.....so often depression or anxiety, i suspect. Or a terrible marriage that has broken them lol.

[barbiedoll]

I have been fortunate to have had counsellors that do accept or believe in the term MLC. The very 1st counsellor I saw was a "younger" therapist and she herself identified my husband as having an " identity crisis"  and she shared that with me.  I had no idea (at the time) what was happening so I googled and found this term used to describe a midlife crisis . 

The counsellor that I am working with now does EMDR / Trauma work and when I asked her this very question , she stated that the term MLC is extremely "over-used". She states that "MLC" has some attached humor like buying toupees, fast cars, fast women and tattoos and is used by laymens to diagnose many behaviours ...most far from funny. An "existential crisis" is a more professional term for MLC and counsellors recognize and accept this diagnoses. She absolutely believes that when one partner experiences a "MLC" ( existential crisis) the betrayed partner very often experiences a profound crisis of their own. This has been the case for me as I know I am in crisis internally as a result of my husbands crisis. She also believes that the internal pain or unrest has its roots in traumatic childhood experiences .

[Treasur]

The term 'existential crisis' makes sense to me, Barbie. Our old vicar (who is also a psychologist and diocesan IC called it that from the beginning.) MLC is a kind of shorthand but I'm not sure it is always a very useful phrase in RL. Probably people would understand something like 'nervous breakdown' better.....although of course that isn't a technical term either. And I agree that for me the roots of a crisis usually seem to sit in early life experiences and the maladaptive coping skills and beliefs people build around them. Which work fine for a while....until they don't. And that their crisis behaviours almost inevitably, to a greater or lesser degree, create a crisis for the LBS too.

[Maleficent]

My retired therapist called it an "existential crisis" from the very beginning.  She told me that there was nothing I could do about it-that it came from something long before we met.  It took me at least two years though to fully understand that there was really nothing I could do about it now. Although I still wish I understood more what truly happened.   As Barbie noted about the laymen term MLC, that is how my MD defined it - " has some attached humor like buying toupees, fast cars, fast women and tattoos." He didn't get the total abrupt destruction.  My L calls it a breakdown.  My bereavement counselor called it a MLC because her h ran off after having one as well.  I am sure my h still believes his terrible, horrible marriage caused his current problems and exclaimed that to any of the therapists I believe he sought out.  And yes, his destruction caused my current existential crisis, although a more philosophical one than his destructive crisis.