Here's what I'd like to work on. Detachment.
"When you wait for a man to make up his mind about you, your life cannot move forward. You can't put your whole heart in anything else if you're betting on something that may not come through. You can build the life of your dreams without him. You can start today. But first, you need to take your heart off the table. You have a few precious years to do what you need to do. Don't waste them on him.”
― Lang Leav, September Love
I had the WORST dreams/lying awake at night dark thoughts last night. Does that happen to anyone else?
When you are in that space - if any of you are - in the dark of night - what do you do to get out of it?
Is this normal?
When you are in that space - if any of you are - in the dark of night - what do you do to get out of it? I tried to pray but I felt like it was so strong I couldn't even get my mind there. Does anyone have anything suggestions of things that might have worked for them? Is this normal?
My H is here, has been since Wed. Last time he was here at Xmas he was wild eyed, couldn't sit still, edgy and cold, couldn't wait to get of here, checking his phone in the bathroom etc.I am glad for you and your children that your H has come back, and glad that you are knowing it is not the end, likely not the beginning of the end, maybe only the end of the beginning ?
[...] Now, all of you battle scarred vets on here are going to tell me - i think - hold on, there's more crazy coming down the pike! this is NOT over! Don't believe what he says! and yes, I get that. Thank you!
I had the WORST dreams/lying awake at night dark thoughts last night. Does that happen to anyone else? Like between 3:33 and 6 am I was a mess. The most horrible thoughts about him and the woman who is his AP (I believe, have some evidence altho I cannot prove and he denies) and the fact that I think he was with her again this week (he goes dark and doesn't call kids or me for a few days) and the most terrible feelings of betrayal, hopelessness and if I'm really honest, humiliation.What you describe is "normal" for LBS, yes. At least in the first months post BD. For the first time in my life, the time has slowed down very much. At first it is a curse, something I wanted to fight. Then, with time ;) I saw this is a gift that I can use for me. Now my sleep is almost come back to normal without any medication. Only change : I wake up 1 hour earlier than before BD, and I use this time for prayer and reading Word of God
When you are in that space - if any of you are - in the dark of night - what do you do to get out of it? I tried to pray but I felt like it was so strong I couldn't even get my mind there. Does anyone have anything suggestions of things that might have worked for them? Is this normal?
I wish I had more solid info, but i do know that i am on a journey and it is far from over. I am trying to keep two parallel paths open in my mind: one is that we reconcile and start to rebuild slowly and move back to London where he has a chance of getting things together (his work contacts are there and he feels much more at home being Turkish, has close friends, and also closer to his family), I also have contacts there for work and lots of friends so it's not bad for me to contemplate either, but also a scenario in which I move alone with the kids to a place in the country like in Tennessee or Arkansas (my BF lives in Bentonville), and write a book about surviving/thriving during your H's MLC.Yeah, that's it ! You have options ! And options where you see good future for you whatever the outcome. That's great !
I can say honestly that if it were not for my children, I would prob walk away. I don't get enough from him, he is such hard work, and he has broken our marriage and trust. But, there is a part of me that believes in 'sickness and in health' and I can see with my eyes how sick he is. He sobbed the other day in bed after we'd been affectionate. He turned his back and cried. He is a shell of the man he once was - the strongest and without a doubt the bravest man I'd ever met. That is the truth. I want to help him get better, for him and for my kids.I totally understand what you write : you are full of empathy and forgiveness, it is a good place to be, right ? With this MLC, I feel my heart is bigger and my mind is clearer, it looks to me that you feel the same.
Time will reveal when my limits are reached. And this time, if we break, I don't think it will be fueled by fury, it will be a sad acceptance of the fact that he cannot continue on this journey with me and I can no longer carry him. And I will forgive him for that too.
Living in a liminal space like this is hard, but lots of people do this every day. My friend has had Stage IV colon cancer for 4 years now, she was given 6 months to live initially. She gets up every day to go to work, calls her kids at college, and just started a new trial at UCSF (she has run out of options re traditional chemo - 16 rounds). She lives day by day. She's written a book and hopes to be alive for her book tour in June. Every day she holds on to two realities. That is my calling right now I think.
I hope healing starts with truth.
He does not appreciate all that I've done and the inner work I've had to do to even talk to him and be in the same house as him right now.First, I'm so happy your sister's results were benign. That is fantastic news!!! ;D
He does not understand what an amazing wife I have been and continue to be.
He is still hugely resentful that he 'gave up' his big opportunity...
He still believes I was too controlling ... he will immediately react and be horrible to me.
I told him to not book any return tickets until he talks to me when I'm back Sunday and he accused me of trying "to manage him".
He accused me of using the kids to manipulate him.
How can I express to him real needs on the part of our kids without being accused of weaponizing them to manipulate him?
He is a selfish, depressed zombie and hard to be around.
... he is clearly not well.
Do any of you advise to tell them what they deserve to hear ?I don't know if this will be helpful, but I want to chime in with my experience so far. Keep in mind I have the privilege of saying whatever I want because there are no children involved...
I never, ever thought this was possible from this person. It's like a horrible nightmare, but real.
Some things I'm thinking: he cannot bring this woman back to our flat in Antalya.And you'll enforce this how? How will/would you know?
All my things are in the closet and drawers and my kids toys etc. She has money, she can stay in a hotel, not in our home. I am serious about this, or I will not go back there and stay myself this summer with kids. It is actually my house, in my name, and I don't want her in a home that we set up every single inch for ourselves and our family. Not unless we are divorced and it's his home.
I will also insist he does not introduce her to our kids, ever, or I will tell them that she was daddy's secret gf while he was married to mommy.This is not a boundary, it is a threat, an ultimatum and it is guaranteed to bring on the Monster at least or blow up in your face because he will do it just to be spiteful.
And also he has to get a proper job and pay some child support. Those kinds of things.And you will enforce this boundary how? He will need to pay child support. Fine. Where he gets the money to do so is his problem, not yours. Even if he chooses to default, then he will have other legal liabilities hanging over his head.
Do any of you advise to tell them what they deserve to hear ?you can
The curious thing is that he seems to blame you for his feeling of being emasculated because your job is the one carrying the family but he´s willing to dump his family to be a boy-toy. It does not add up. How is that going to fill the self-esteem hole he has dug?
He said he loves me, he will love me forever, he does not want to lose me or this family. He said he is asking for some time to figure it out. He is leaving here Monday and he is flying to meet her in Barcelona.
He said he loves me, he will love me forever, he does not want to lose me or this family. He said he is asking for some time to figure it out. He is leaving here Monday and he is flying to meet her in Barcelona.
I know this is probably what you want to hear, but all of this is confusion, fog and means nothing. It is standard script. Want to know something? My wife, in all sincerity, said to me that she just wanted one year and she would be back. Right before she flew off to go spend some time with her "soul mate." Seven years later (and after many many changes and alterations and infinite confusion) she is still with him, but no longer as happy with him (she has been staying at our house now for well over a year without him but is going back in 2 weeks to see him again), and she never used the "time" to heal or figure anything out. She just kept blowing things up.
I am only sharing this so you can make clear headed decisions about where your limits are and as much as we all hope and wish things to be true I would urge you to try to not fall into your own fog of wishful thinking. A very good guide that has served me well is this: ignore the words and watch the actions, they are much closer to reality. The words are NOT matching the actions.
I have to agree. This was my experience too. My then h ummed and awwed, lots of declarations then silence then lots of sadz for about a year I think. My memory of those times is still a bit fuzzy, but it was awful and awfully confusing. I had no idea what was going on. And of course there were a lot of things going on with his ‘I need space and time, please don’t give up on us’ that I did not know about. But he did keep blowing things up, regardless of his words. And reader, turned out he married her lol.
Altho I still have some hope in my heart, I am willing to lose him because the way I see it, unfortunately, I have already lost him.
I just wanted to add in regards to the OW, sure, she may be in his ear, and it’s all infuriating, but in the end you will realize it doesn’t matter. He’s responsible for his choices. That includes the choice to leave his children again after two weeks, as much as you want to shield them from that pain. The only way to protect kids in these situations is to try to help them see that it’s not about them, none of it is their fault and that you can’t control other peoples actions but that other peoples actions are not a statement about who you are. Kids identify themselves as their parents, there’s no separation for them. if someone says their parent is bad, it means they are bad. If they perceive their parents to be bad, they perceive themselves to be bad. You can help them see that his actions aren’t a reflection of them, but you can’t do anything about his actions. he’ll have to live with the fallout of that, of leaving his kids to go try to find some part of himself in another human being.
I'm with Dragonfly on it. I also told my xH that he would have to be the one to file, and honestly, that put me at a great disadvantage
I believe I know what this panel of my trusted advisors is going to say: don't sell your CA house and escape to the country and buy chickens, a flatbed and a sheep - yet. Slow your breathing and your steps and focus on what you can control and your own healing. Stop trying to figure him out. Detach, get some space, go no contact unless about kids. Is that right?
Helpfully I have three diff friends coming out to stay with me in March. And a trip planned with kids in early April to Bentonville, Ark to see my best friend in all the world. I will have lots and lots of girlfriend/margarita time.
Secondly, for those of you that dealt with a 'touch and go' which is what this v well may be, If he was NOT with his OW when he came back did you welcome him back with affection/you know what I'm talking about here etc? I want to try again with him and rebuild but I don't want my heart to get crushed in the process.
If he runs away again, ie says he can't live here with us and needs to go away for a few weeks to see his parents again (and flee responsibility etc) and he is not with the AP (it would be hard to see her now without anyone noticing bc she lives in a diff country and we call with cameras on) do they ever just escape and avoid without cheating on you? I am trying to prepare myself that he will come and then he will try hard, and then start to pull away after a few weeks, and then eventually tell me i can't do this and tell me he has to leave /escape the drudgery of our lives again. And it will hurt like a biyatch. This idea of back and forth is horrendous, but I am keenly aware that his 'crisis' ls pretty much for sure, not over.
Secondly, for those of you that dealt with a 'touch and go' which is what this v well may be, If he was NOT with his OW when he came back did you welcome him back with affection/you know what I'm talking about here etc?
I am trying to prepare myself that he will come and then he will try hard, and then start to pull away after a few weeks, and then eventually tell me i can't do this and tell me he has to leave /escape the drudgery of our lives again. And it will hurt like a biyatch. This idea of back and forth is horrendous, but I am keenly aware that his 'crisis' ls pretty much for sure, not over.
If he runs away again, ie says he can't live here with us and needs to go away for a few weeks to see his parents again (and flee responsibility etc) and he is not with the AP (it would be hard to see her now without anyone noticing bc she lives in a diff country and we call with cameras on) do they ever just escape and avoid without cheating on you? I am trying to prepare myself that he will come and then he will try hard, and then start to pull away after a few weeks, and then eventually tell me i can't do this and tell me he has to leave /escape the drudgery of our lives again. And it will hurt like a biyatch. This idea of back and forth is horrendous, but I am keenly aware that his 'crisis' ls pretty much for sure, not over.
I have started to see, through small,l I guess you could call them 'micro-aggressions" (altho i dislike the term) clear, unavoidable evidence that he is not willing to do the work that will be necessary to try and fix 'us'. Moreover I don't believe he is capable of it, even if he had the desire to
I have started to see, through small,l I guess you could call them 'micro-aggressions" (altho i dislike the term) clear, unavoidable evidence that he is not willing to do the work that will be necessary to try and fix 'us'. Moreover I don't believe he is capable of it, even if he had the desire to.
- He does not want kids educated over there and wants them to stay in their school over here
- he is planning to live in Turkey 6 months a year near his sisters and parents and I reckon the other 6 he will spend a fair amt of that with his AP in Barcelona or Moscow and some of it with his children.
- He literally wants to just do his 12 hours of client zooms a week and wait until he can start collecting his pension and retire in Turkey in 10 years….As of now, he plans to never work more than that again.
- and also that we will stay a loving family and also at the same time break up.
- He doesn't want to move his things out of this home or for me to move my things out of our bedroom over there.
- He wants half this house (which is legally his) but wants to put it into the next home that I live in with the kids and wants his name on it too - with the provision that everything we own goes to our kids.
- He does not want to divide anything.
As for now, he said to me, "i am a cheater, I am a liar and for the first time in my life, I am selfish.'
someone on here once said that resentment is what pushes them off the ledge when it comes to betrayal and I would have to agree. It certainly seems to be the case for me. He is punishing me for his life not working out how he wanted it to and for not making everything ok for him professionally with the move.
And he said if it was reversed this would not be happening at all. (Ie he would not be sharing a home with me or talking to me)Funny how sometimes, although they lie so much, the truth can accidentally seep out in small ways.
One ps - after writing this I asked him not to text his gf anymore while sitting next to me as I find it emotionally abusive (knowing how I’m triggered by that) and disrespectful. He freaked out, said for years he had put my happiness first, at the expense of his own, I had killed his happiness in fact. I said calmly, let’s evaluate that statement again in 3 years shall we? Without me in your life we can reflect on how much happier you are then and if you’re right, away from me, great happiness is sure to follow! He then stormed around and said I should leave next week; I am not comfortable here. And I looked up from the tv and said bc I asked you not to text your gf?” I said put yourself in my shoes. If this was reversed. And he said if it was reversed this would not be happening at all. (Ie he would not be sharing a home with me or talking to me) and I said, well ab leaving do what you have to do.
...he is blaming me for our inevitable divorce because I'm too easily triggered. I can rationally see this as a gross distortion and manipulation
thank you for those thoughtful and really helpful replies!
BEAUTIFUL day with family. H couldn't have been nicer. Lovely gift from him, he and kids made a sign and my D really knocked it out of the park with her thoughtfulness. Church was great, fab lunch (no clean up for me), swimming for kids and lots of laughter and love. We felt like a happy family. It was a lovely respite from recent weeks.
Am going to savor it while it lasts but not expect it to.
It's a shame that these family moments are likely to be few on the ground after this - but I hope we all look back on them with fondness and in future H and I can find some friendship which allows for a (different) version of this, for their sake.
No one wants to see a family break up, least of all the children involved. I hurt that I can't save this for them. But grateful for being a mom and the beautiful gifts that they are.
Thanks again to this group for the unwavering encouragement, wisdom and support.
No matter what went down in his weakened brain. I will NEVER understand how someone who loved me - can look into the face of the pain he has caused, is causing - and just shrug it off and take no ownership.. And it’s not just me, he’s shrugging off our kids too.
“I have not cried or begged you to stay, I have not tried to talk you out of this or brought up all the ways this will damage our kids, not one time. I even said if you want to go, then go. But every minute of this right now is painful to me. And you need to know that”