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Our Community / Becoming myself through tears
« Latest by Treasur on Today at 01:50:15 AM »
It was a bit uncomfortable watching the strained interactions but really, that’s not my place to try to fix it or smooth it over or take on his emotions.  I realize that in the past I would have tried to take on that role.  It felt good to get to the place I can see that clearly and is a sign of progress.

Yes it is, MOS and well done to you for seeing it  :)
At a very simple level, MLC or not, they have fired us from the job of a spouse who cares about these kinds of longer our concern how or if they deal with their own life challenges. And, most likely, any kind of future ‘recovery’ for them will require them finding their own big boy pants and learning better healthier ways to deal with their own issues and the things they have been avoiding or delegating to their old caring supportive spouse  ::)
Our Community / Is this midlife crisis?
« Latest by Treasur on Today at 01:20:06 AM »
Please help me understand if that is a midlife crisis or not and what should I be doing and how to treat him?

I’m sorry too that you’re here, but glad you found us.

Every single one of us have chewed hard on this question in our own situation. And reached our conclusion over time. Imho initially we usually think the absolute answer to it is more important in the short-term than it practically turns out to be bc we think it gives us some clarity or hope or predictability that usually turns out to be misplaced. And right now it doesn’t change the practical realities you are dealing with.....and things will go better for you and your kids if you focus your energy on these and your own emotional and physical wellbeing.

Try to think of it like a big bomb blew up your house....there will be a time later for the ‘inquiry’ into who did it and why and if it could have been prevented but right now your priority is to get you and your kids to a safe place. Legally, financially, emotionally, physically. Focus on what you DO know more than what you DON’T would be my general rule now, with the gift of hindsight.

But we all also know how very hard, confusing and crazy-making this is and that you will fall over and get up again more than once......

At the same time I agree with Why that reaching some sense of what had happened mattered to me over the longer-term. There does seem to be an MLC textbook and usually it becomes clearer to see over time and the less involved you are in your spouse’s unfolding life from here on. MLCers seem to have a time when they do a good impression of Shiny New Life and it is easy to turn blame and anger on ourselves, particularly if they are blaming us. However, over time, most MLCers start to show signs of being hot messes.....sometimes in ways we don’t find out about for years later even.....and certainly in things that we have no involvement with so play no part in.

MLCers unravel.
Initially we see our marriages as the focus bc that it what is being unravelled right in front of us. But often the unravelling gets worse and more nutty even after they have left the becomes easier to see a person blowing up their lives in lots of different ways not just blowing up their marriages. This is the point when labelling it helped helped me to stay a little sane, it helped me to see what was in my control and not, my responsibility and not, and over time it helped me to not hate my xh even as I turned away from his chaos.

So how should you treat him?
Imho you should begin to train your brain to stop seeing him as your h and start treating him as someone who has chosen a future without you in it. That may or may not change, and it may or may not turn out to be a wise choice for him, but for now that is what I would do. And this will take a little time and some trial and error.
Treat him based on taking his actions at face value in how you respond but don’t put too much weight on anything he says particularly about you or your marriage or any future promises (bc both MLCers and unfaithful spouses lie a lot and flip around on a dime emotionally) or share any of your important thoughts or feelings with him.
Train yourself to stop thinking We if that makes sense.
Train yourself to see that what he has done/is doing says a great deal more about him than it does about you. But how you respond to the situation you find yourself in is about who you choose to be and what kind of life is acceptable and do-able for you.

I would bet money I don’t have that the running ‘friend’ is an OW and that it started at about the time you felt you were not spending as much time together but thought of it as normal life stresses. And that if you don’t know where he is living, there’s a pretty good chance that it is with her or linked to her in some way. Useful too to remind oneself that when you communicate with your h right now it is very likely that there is a hidden third party in that conversation with their own agenda....that your emails might be being read by someone else or your emotions used to justify other people’s bad intent.....another good reason to be more cautious about what you choose to share about your thoughts and feelings with him. Again, it’s a spectrum and different LBS make different choices, but often minimising contact with them and their lives and their friends or family and even their social media can be helpful while you find your footing.

Treat him as someone who does not actually value what you value or actually care much about what happens to you or your needs regardless of what he says.
Judge him on his actions not his words, good or bad.
Operate based on your worst assumptions and be open-minded to him acting in ways that prove you wrong rather than the other way round.

Again with the great gift of hindsight, a lot of the ‘aftershocks’ following BD were because I was slow to adjust my expectations of my then h. I expected him to behave in ways he didn’t and that kept hurting and confusing me....until I changed what I expected from him. In my case, he rarely exceeded my most negative assumptions....and in fact on the once or twice that he did, I found myself just as surprised lol. But fortunately it didn’t usually last for long lol before normal MLC service resumed lol.

What do his actions look like to you? And how do you think you should treat him based solely on his current actions?

So, practicalities....
Do you have kids?
Do you have many joint assets? Or risk of joint debts if he starts spending like a crazy person?
Can you survive financially without any contribution from him?
Have you taken legal advice on what you can do to protect yourself from the effects of his choices? You don’t have to rush into legal action but it can help to know what your options are and how to avoid short-term decisions that might be damaging for you in the longer-term.
Do you have an emotional support system of your own, friends, family, IC? Things you love doing and people who care about you can help a lot as we weather this awful chapter.
And how are you doing with the basic stuff like eating, sleeping etc?

None of these practical things, important as they are, change the fact that you are also shocked and grieving the end of your marriage and life as it was. For a while you will be living on three train tracks.....dealing with your loss, protecting yourself practically and trying to build a different life. Past, present and future. Some days you will do more of one than the others....some days you will barely have energy to do any of them. And that’s normal so it’s important to keep getting up when you fall over but to be very kind to yourself that this stuff is very hard, for most of us probably much older than you it was the hardest season of our lives. But it will not last forever and we can promise that there is a good life on the other side of it whether that includes your spouse or not.
Our Community / MLC Rollercoaster ride
« Latest by UrsaMajor on Today at 01:02:00 AM »
All MLC-script I suppose..?

Sadly ... yes.... right out of the MLC for Dummies handbook...

I wish that I could help him, but he still doesn’t want any help..
Not only does he not want any help, he would resent any help and twist it into "See, you are still trying to control me." nonsense in his swiss-cheese-MLC-brain.....
Our Community / BLUE ON BLACK
« Latest by UrsaMajor on Today at 12:59:06 AM »
That language thing is SO funny.... Only because I have done that (or still do it)

My first foreign language was Spanish so, when I got to Germany, I too would hear an accent and automatically go to Spanish... THAT got me some weird looks.... A couple of years ago, I was on vacation with my kids in the Canary Islands where the language is ... Spanish... and what do I do? Well, since I have forgotten most of my Spanish anyway after living in Germany and speaking German for 20-something years, I answer back in German... My kids were laughing at me....

I did get a little of my Spanish back while we were there.

Many shops will have a day during the week that they are closed since they  are open on Saturdays and, depending on the kind of shop, (hair stylists for example) are likely to be closed on Monday's.

I HIGHLY recommend reserving seats on the trains if possible, especially the ICE. Otherwise, you stand a not insignificant chance of having to either stand or sit in an aisle on the floor or, if you are lucky, in the dining car (assuming there are seats and you have enough money to keep ordering... )  If you have a reserved seat and someone is sitting there, you just tell them to move if they don't. Most Germans will move though as they know the seat is reserved and it is NOT reserved for them...
Our Community / MLC Rollercoaster ride
« Latest by Reinventing on Today at 12:53:02 AM »
Me? I’m doing pretty okay weirdly.. Enjoying time with my D, friends and family.

Really, really good to hear.

Interesting that he seems to know he is going to need to hit rock bottom.
Our Community / Becoming myself through tears
« Latest by Reinventing on Today at 12:43:38 AM »
.....but really, that’s not my place to try to fix it or smooth it over or take on his emotions.

Nice! Wish I would have known this when I was young. I would have not wasted a bunch of energy where it didn't need to be spent.
Our Community / Re: In home MLCer
« Latest by Akkie1973 on September 26, 2022, 01:37:36 PM »
Oh Yes.

As one of the few "live at home MLC" LBSers - I can confirm that going dark is sometimes the only way to survive.

That is spot on! I hated it when me and my H had fun talks with each other while he was at home but he still  went to OW on Thursday. So now I don’t talk with and leave him all by himself I don’t miss him when he’s gone.
Our Community / BLUE ON BLACK
« Latest by Watcher on September 26, 2022, 10:33:31 AM »
Hi Curiosity, UrsaMajor, MomOfSteel, Treasur, FTT.

So I made it to Berlin Hbf this morning early because I couldn't afford to miss the train. The train station is massive so it took me awhile to find my track. They announced it on the big board 30 minutes ahead of time anyway.

I had a seat reservation thankfully and maybe I should do so on all my ICE trains. The train was crowded and I luckily had a place to store my luggage. I did wonder about this seating honor system as someone was in my seat as I passed looking to store my luggage. They did get up by the time I returned.

However , I did notice other people simply telling the person they were in their seat and that was it. I sat at a table with 3 other people. I asked the lady next to me if I were in the right seat and showed her my phone because each car is numbered.

That's what the lady did to me on the platform the other day at the ticket machine. She showed me her phone with Google translate and it was in German, LOL....I can pick out a word or two so I can understand it a bit.

Today on the platform an elderly German man approached (I know this is getting ridiculous). I said I only speak English and he just kept on in German ignoring me. So I was on Ice 93 and he was on Ice 1093 so I had to show him where to go.

The other day at Tempelhof Station this elderly woman was attempting to walk up the stair with a walker. So one guy grabbed the walker and I had to grab her because how else could she climb the stairs. Oh I'm staying out of these trains stations from now on, lol. It actually did look very sad that she probably has to climb stairs that way normally.

I've seen elevators at most these stations but
I didn't notice at Tempelhof.

So the ticket lady checked my ticket on Deutsche Bahn. I had to show my rail pass and passport. She had to fill out my dates of use and she told me that I have to write in the date for the day I'm using the ticket next time before the conductor stamps it.

The lady sitting next to me asked if I understood the ticket lady who told me once in English but then let it rip in German as she walked away, lol. The lady next to me had seen my ticket earlier so she told me she had been to Regensburg when her kids were younger.

The trip took 4 hours and 20 minutes and I had a 6 minute walk to my hotel. I walked around a bit to stretch my sore legs but it appears that most places are closed on Monday's in the month of September from the signs I was reading in the store front windows.

I stopped at a cafe and there are many of them. I kept defaulting to Spanish as I was ordering. Sometimes that happens. The more I kept telling myself to stop ordering in Spanish the more I kept doing it, lol. Dom St. Peter has scaffolding up. I'm just going to rest tonight and go exploring tomorrow.

Have a good night
Our Community / Re: In home MLCer
« Latest by Songanddance on September 26, 2022, 10:02:32 AM »
Oh Yes.

As one of the few "live at home MLC" LBSers - I can confirm that going dark is sometimes the only way to survive.

I hated seeing him so "happy" singing and dancing in the kitchen as he readied himself to go out with OW. I found that the only way to preserve my sanity was to stay away from him, retreat to my bedroom and go as dark as possible.   

However when he was clearly in a mood or had a row with OW (which they did almost daily whereas H and I rowed only on occasion) I would be bright, breezy and more dim than dark with him.

It took time to establish that pattern but I managed and it has served me very well even now he is pretty much over the MLC and  we are separated but in regular contact.  He has to call me and I choose how to respond.

Always look after yourself and of course the children. The MLCer certainly won't.
Our Community / Aliens stole my W!!!!! Part 14: "I want my M(LC)-TV!!!"
« Latest by Standing Strong on September 26, 2022, 09:22:46 AM »
Back from vacation  8)


It was so nice getting to escape for a week. Going to an amusement park was amazing, I've missed it so much.
One thing I had been worried about over the years of not going to a park was the fear that time would go by and I wouldn't be able to ride rollercoasters anymore. I've seen people who used to love them get older and then it upsets their stomach or whatever. I didn't want that to be me!!  :D
Well, I started out with the fastest and most thrilling (it was great) and wouldn't you know it.... my stomach got upset.... Oh no!!! So then I went on every rollercoaster just to show the body who was in charge and wouldn't you know it... the upset stomach went away.  ;D
They also had haunted houses at night (they were sooooo well done, the best I've ever seen). The odd thing was, nothing scared me. That LBS conditioning I guess...... the ghosts and ghouls were jumping out at me, getting in my face... they did a great job, and I'd stick out my tongue at them, or go "BOO" back at them. A couple times I may have scared them as I popped towards their hiding place and yelled as they waited to scare someone from their hiding place.  8) A couple times I could see the puzzled look in their eyes..... HAHAHAHAAHAH!! I don't know if that is healthy or normal, but it is what it was. I enjoyed it. I kinda like being completely unphased, but it would have been fun to be surprised too.
Very happy to be home. I missed the little animals. My family all chipped in to take care of the birds. That was so nice of them. I think they worry about me, and are happy that I'm trying to have as normal a life as I can.

I got a message from W last night (the typical one reach out during one of her larger trips): two pictures of a bird..... then after I responded a bunch of pictures from her trip. We had a couple lines of text and then *POOF* (as usual). After three and a half years I still get surprised at how fast and abruptly "conversations" end with the MLC'er. It's not surprising, I know it will happen, and then right in the middle of talking *POOF*..... gets me every time!! HA!!! I know it's an anchor check. She gets what she needs: "Are you still there?", and once she knows.... that's it. It's just a little funny (to me) that I STILL get tricked in this way. It's like (me thinking to myself) "Ok W, you're going to pop out.... I know you're going to pop out...... wait a min, did you just pop out? YOU DID!!! How could you!!" HAHAHAHAHAH!!  :P ::)
I take it as an encouraging sign that hope is still alive, especially when so often emotion is deadened, null and void. There is still a spark in there..... and it's encouraging to me that somewhere in there she is still anchor checking too. The flames haven't totally gone out, just burning so low that sometimes I can't tell if the pilot light is still lit. 

One day at a time,


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