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Author Topic: Discussion Guilt vs Remorse #2

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Discussion Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#120: December 10, 2014, 06:06:56 AM
This is in response to a question Stayed asked me back on 12/7. I had to really think about "what did I have to lose" if I spoke to ex.about our so called" friendship". I do try to be" friends" for our 4 children's sake , as I think it is much easier on them.

There was an additional post that mentioned the 4 consistencies of reconnection--I obviously  have to work on #4. I think this is where I am stuck. Why--because I am afraid.

Short version of why I am afraid.  Our oldest son has always been a "problem child" that caused some issues in the marriage--we got a long very well, except for this area. Fast forward to time of divorce-ex mentioned this was one of the main reasons he wanted divorce. He sent this son back to his parents town, so they could help him as needed, as I was so devastated by divorce that I just couldn't handle him and his problems at the time.
  Approx 8 yrs ago, this son was diagnosed with a mental illness after my ex in-laws called ex and told them something was wrong with our son and he needed to come get him. Bottom line, is son was pretty much left at my house to deal with him and get him mental help. After a time of several months dealing with this, I was desperate for some help as it was getting to be too much to work full time and then take care of mentally ill son. I met with a psychologist who agreed that ex needed to step up to the plate and give me some much needed help.
I had to call my ex and literally beg him to help  me with our son. He agreed to meet the psychologist, who spoke with him. Ex agreed to help and a plan was sset up by him and the psychologist on howto give me one evening a week break.

Ex has kept his end of the bargain with this and has pitched in a little more with additional help over the years. However, this son and his illness can still cause problems and one time in anger ex, commented that if son doesn't follow the rules, he is "done." That is what really scares me. I cannot deal with this son by myself and there is no family close by.

So that is why I don't speak up and clarify the "friend" thing.  I haven't developed enough confidence in myself.
 Sorry aabout the long response.
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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#121: December 10, 2014, 06:29:29 AM
((((((((((((hugs dbpb)))))))))))))))))))) that took a lot of courage to be that honest.  This is so wrong, on so many levels, my friend.  You didn't make son on your own, yet your h who ran off, found himself a prosperous partner and lives an enchanted life, leaving you to deal with a mentally, handicapped son.  This child is just as much as his as he is yours. 

Your h is basically holding you HOSTAGE, dbpb!  He has basically told you, treat me right lady, or I will abandon you again, and not return this time, if you do not play by my rules.  Do you really need his help that much now db?  There are SUPPORT groups for people in your situation.  I would rather ask a total stranger to take my son ONE NIGHT a week, then have to place nice, with such a DESPICABLE person, as your h. 

You are much tougher then me db.

Hugs Stayed
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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#122: December 10, 2014, 09:23:33 AM
Dbpb,

You are my heroine! :)

It is always hard to deal with mental illness in family members, let alone, your own son. I can only imagine how hard that must be :(

I can understand Stayed's way of thinking, maybe if your h. 'threatens' to drop the ball again, you can  say that you will find a carer for his night of the week? After all you seem to bear the most part of the burden. I know that for you to continue caring for him, you need that free night a week.

I can understand the lack of confidence, these things knock us sideways and we find it very, very hard to stand up straight again.


((((Hugs))))
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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#123: December 10, 2014, 10:05:17 AM
Exactly Mitzpah.  Rather then be SILENCED because you fear he will "withdraw" his one night a week obligation, it would be wonderful if you could find a support group that would help you to find somebody to do that night for you.  You might even find people that you can TALK about this with, which would probably be a wonderful relief for you, as I suspect your h doesn't want to talk about his son's condition, in any great detail.  Men can be so odd, about such things, I guess they must think that it is their fault or something.  Mental health is not always hereditary.  Still men can't bare even a hint that it could have come from him!  Silly...

Ready2Transform wrote the most amazing observation.  This is how she see's the recovery of the LBS evolving.  I you have reached the first 3 Dbpb.. ... now if you could reach #4.  I think you would find that goal of peace and contentment that all LBS's seek.

Quote
   
1.  The LBS becomes confident in themselves
2.  The LBS sheds any codependent tendencies
3.  The LBS finds strength in their intuition
4.  The LBS finds the strength to speak freely in their own power to the MLCer, unaffected by any potential outcome

We can get there.  We have to work at it, for sure.  Sadly, it doesn't just happen, but each year, does get easier and better.  I think if you got some willing "help" one night a week for your son, then you could be up front and honest with your h.  You could then say to him, I really wanted to try to be your friend, for the sake of our children and our oldest son, but seriously, you are not the type of person I would be friends with.  Friends that I have, don't lie, cheat, betray and abandon, their spouse and 4 children.  You did.  Making matters even worse, you have tried to give my place in the family to your new partner. 

No h, I don't have FRIENDS that treat me like that.  Sorry.  If you ever want to be a REAL friend... come and talk to me.  As things are, you have never asked for my forgiveness, you have never shown one once of remorse and you seem to think you can walk in and out of my HOME freely. 

Not sure why, but I think you would feel really good to actually SPEAK honestly about what you think of this situation.

Hugs Stayed

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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#124: December 10, 2014, 11:29:57 AM
I agree don't give you h so much power over you.  I think it is better for your mental health to just keep away from him.  I have 3 little kids and if I need a night out I have back up if my unreliable ex backs out.  They love the control and trying to make you miserable...don't let him.  Seek support in the community maybe you can find more respite out there for you. (((Hugs)))
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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#125: December 10, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
Agree with Stayed here.

Might I ask what the nature of the mental illness is? It may be possible to get support groups.

I have a friend whose youngest son is severely autistic. His autism created such problems that divorce happened as neither she nor H could cope with the strain. H did step up though even though S lived with my friend.  When the S was 13 though my friend had to make the heartbreaking decision to sign him into a home for teenagers and young adults with severe behavioural difficulties. She said she cried every day for about a year but began to see a transformation in herself and her S. The H still in the scene and still supporting financially but not pro-active.
Four years on - my friend has her S with her every weekend and the ex H contributes to that. He has since remarried. My friend is in a sort of R.
She doesn't regret seeking help or making that incredibly hard decision because she regained her life back and has learned so much about the condition that she is now on the national advisory panel. She is still a great mum, just watching her with S is inspiring and she is a good person.

Now of course I'm not suggesting you do the same - I'm just simply saying that there is help out there including respite care and third party care (someone comes in and looks after S so that you can have a little pamper time or even just sleep)

Your H should step up and see if there are mechanisms that can enforce this.

Don't be held to ransom and see what wriggle room you can start to negotiate.
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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#126: December 10, 2014, 04:29:27 PM
H has come back from his trip.
I sent him a text (during no contact doh!) saying:
'I have made a decision. I can't go through hearing those words again (i.e I don't love you anymore) so if you decide that this is the end can you go straight to your friends house and not come home to talk on Saturday. I am telling you this now so that you have time to consider what you really want and that if you do decide you want to try to rebuild your love for me it will be for the right reasons'

Yes I know I am weak but I was in such a state all weekend I just needed to ensure that he was using this time to sort his head out if possible)

This is what I got back:
'I will  be there on Saturday. i feel I have to try. After 30 years I can't throw it all away if there may be a chance. I still care and respect you if that is in place then maybe we can turn this around x' (he only ever ends his texts with a full stop!)

The I get a call from my 24 year old son (who does not realise that we have done this no contact (well semi) saying that when H got home from his trip he wrote a really nasty note saying 'thanks for leaving so many towels on the floor, they are all in the bath for you boys to sort out. There are no bowls in the cupboard, get them down from your rooms. I am not being a parent to you anymore you are old enough to sort yourselves out. WELCOME HOME DAD, or rather not welcome home.  Obviously my son was upset about this and decided to throw it away so his younger brothers didnt have to see it. This seems like monster behaviour to me.

So one minute I think this can;t be MLC as he is straight away willing to try, (or are these just words so that he can pretend he's done his best) then he demonstrates outrageous anger to his sons!

I feel relieved that we are not splitting yet but this feeling of doom that I have to walk on egg shells and try to win him back when I have a smashed heart. Not sure how I am going to do this!!
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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#127: December 10, 2014, 10:28:25 PM
Maelstrom, you have it all wrong.  You DON'T HAVE TO PROVE anything to your h.  You need to grow a backbone and I think you will be astounded at how much he will respond to that.  A strong, attractive, smart, independent partner is much more appealing then you might think.  TRYING to WIN HIM BACK, will backfire... we can all assure you of that... WE ALL HAVWE TRIED.... it was not until I was strong and indifferent to what my h THOUGHT he wanted from me, that we began to really CLICK again.

Back away from him Maelstrom.  don't try to win him... you can't win that battle as he will see it TOO MUCH... TOO LATE... or why wasn't she like this before... or she is pathetic and weak and just trying to TRICK me back to her... YOU CAN NOT WIN THIS, if you try to force yourself to change.  He doesn't know what a person should or shouldn't be like. 

Hugs Stayed

Merry Christmas everybody... hugs Stayed
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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#128: December 11, 2014, 03:22:11 AM
Additional info on my situation:

My son was diagnosed with schizophreniz several years ago and it has been a real rollarcoaster. WE do have a mental health facility here and they have been of great help. I have belonged to a support group for families with a mentally ill member-however it is very small and although we help each other with advice, etc, it is not the type of group that would physically help with your ill family member. It is mainly a group to help new members learn how the mental health system works, etc.

This son lives in his own apt now, at the advice of mental health people.,but needs much supervision, to make sure it is somewhat clean. He doesn't clean on his own, so you have to help him. He spends his days drinking coffee and smoking. I take him to all his dr appointments, etc as he cannot drive.. Its very sad, but he has actually improved. He will never be able to hold down a "normal job, because of the illness. He also has no friends and calls his dad and me each 3-4 times a day. I could write pages on having a mentally ill child, but will spare all of you.

As for my ex, he always seemed to think this son was just a behavior problem and for a long time he and his parents thought it was the way I was taking care of him. Once son was diagnosed with a true mental illness, he has slowly become more involved, mainly financially. Thanks to the psychologist, He does take son out to eat once a week and they go grocery shopping. Ex's OW has not wanted anything to do with this son and is not at all interested in learning about his illness. So, son is not welcome at their house. I know he has used her as an excuse to avoid his son at times.

Ex husband is not all bad-like I said he has come a long way since son's diagnosis. He also joined the support group and I think it helped him to be around a few other men who have mentally ill child. It is hard for me to be there at same time as I feel it is difficult for either of us to speak freely, since we are divorced.  I just think it is easier for him to give financially. He and his OW are quite active socially and that still  seems to take priority, but he has recently said I can call anytime if there is a problem. He really does expect me to be the main caretaker with him-I sometimes feel like I'm the unpaid help.

His primary world continues to be life with OW and his original family comes in second. However, he is showing more interest in his other kids in the last couple of years. My daughter has even noticed.

I hope that clarifies things a little better.
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Re: Guilt vs Remorse #2
#129: December 11, 2014, 05:52:18 AM
Maelstrom - please listen to stayed.  She could have written those words to me - and probably has several times.  :P  Read my thread if you get time cause I think you will see that my h has said pretty much the same words yours is saying and, well, lets just say I'm on my own way now. 

HUGS.
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