[terra]

At the very least, anyone endeavoring to get an MLCer into therapy, medical examination, or psychiatric evaluation has not just a lot of love for that person but also a real control trip going on.

Yes it may help if you learn a new term or reason or cause of the behavior? But who does that really help.

It helps you. The MLCer is fine. They might be crazy but they’re ok being crazy. You think it’s crazy. The family may think it’s crazy. But the MLCer thinks it’s all fine.

These are grown adults. They can take care of themselves or find new people to help support whatever they are up to. We also are grown adults and can do same. But even within the covenant of marriage, it’s not our job or right to control another. Each of us is ultimately responsible only for itself. Kids, if you have children. But not the spouse. Marriage is a system of agreements. If your spouse is breaking agreements, they do get to do that. Then it’s up to us to decide compromise or consequence.

Dragging an adult into medical or psychiatric observations — as much as I understand why we would want to, or think that it might help somehow, it’s really a control issue. So as most often advised, once you’ve established boundaries and limits that ensure your and your kids’ physical, emotional, and financial safety as much as possible, the biggest thing you have to do is concern yourself only with yourself. With your own history, your own baggage, your own issues, and your own ineffective or bewildering or unsafe ways.

Because something about the MLC and any response to it has literally nothing to do with your spouse at ALL, and everything to do solely with YOU.

I was 38 with a 2-year-old when xh initiated divorce. He was later hospitalized twice and ultimately diagnosed with a condition that presents with psychotic features. So when there is troubling behavior, is it MLC? Or is it the diagnosed condition? Or is it the medication he takes or doesn’t take? Or is it his trauma history and basic temperament. Likewise with h. Is it MLC? A diagnosed or undiagnosed mental health or medical condition? Any medication he is taking or not taking? Or is it his own trauma history, and whatever pattern or basic temperament.

I don’t see much talk of sex/porn addiction in MLC discussions. It’s a blatant factor in the MLCs I’ve been subjected to. And finally the only partner recovery work that has been beneficial and focused as much on my own history, trauma, patterns, and health as on the MLCer’s. For whatever that’s worth.

At bottom it’s really just about broken agreements. Someone in the marriage changed its mind, and that’s not something I can alter. If h returns, we will see if mental or medical health needs discussion and whether agreements can be restored. I don’t really care about diagnoses unless it is something physical that could physically kill him. If he comes back and wants to rebuild with me, I am open to that and crazy enough myself that it’s ok if he’s a poster boy for some DSM label. Which, if the DSM updated every few years anyway, does the diagnostic label really mean anything? Everything evolves.

But I bet you dollars to donuts that every couple on earth goes through something like this at some point in a marriage, and those who stay together or reconcile heretofore just have not hung it on the line for everyone to see. We benefit somewhat through the technology of now, and the comfort of being able to show and share our stories to a vast collective full of respondents we might never see or meet. The generations before us had nothing like this, and instead I think they kept it all to prayer and tears and the confessional box. And then, as much as possible, put it behind them and never spoke of it again.

What good, to look for a diagnosis for your spouse? Does it really explain anything? Or does it keep us focused on the spouse and whether they are behaving right or not right, instead of on living our best lives?

I would say that seems like the “caring” spouse has utterly lost sight of itself and abandoned it’s own cares and needs. Turn that meticulous attention all back to you. We can’t make the spouse or anyone else conform to our expectations. They either will naturally, or won’t. If they don’t, how do we take care of ourselves and our own needs?

Not by micro-examining someone else. Even if we love them very much.

Agreements were and are broken. What do you really have control over? What happens if you do or not have control over your spouse? What happens if you lose control over your spouse?

The key is to remember that we never really had control over them in the first place, and that we never will.

[xyzcf]

Awesome post terra!

I have found this to be true in the therapy that I have engaged in, about myself and my response to what happened.

Because something about the MLC and any response to it has literally nothing to do with your spouse at ALL, and everything to do solely with YOU.

[Not Applicable]

I agree with a lot of what you write Terra and it's a good post. However, I have to say the benefit of having a diagnosis (and I am not talking about a doctor's diagnosis but by reading about possible diagnoses and matching up what you read with what you observe) is understanding the underlying causes helps to take some of the mystery out of their behavior and does help one develop some empathy for what they are going through. It's not going to cure them but it can help us to handle it better.

About the porn thing, I know of at least two women on here whose Hs had porn issues during MLC. I can't recall if either one posted about it publicly though as it was some time ago and I also corresponded with them privately.

[kikki]

I very much disagree Terra. 
The brain is an organ.  If this particular organ is not functioning as it should (due to a very long list of potentials, including something like an adverse drug reaction) and therefore their thinking is disordered (whether temporarily or permanently), then I would say we have a moral obligation to get that person assistance.

Should someone be having a heart attack, do you walk past, because it is none of our business, how their body/organs are functioning?  Or if someone has had a stroke, for example, do we leave them to it to fend to themselves?

The point of having a diagnosis, would be that there may well be a diagnosis to be found, as there is the possibility of an underlying 'physical' disorder as the cause of the mental disturbance.  In an ideal world, these could have been ruled out. 

And if this subject is better understood, then I would hope it helps families in the future with increased medical people having increased understanding and being able to offer the family support or to steer them to support networks.  As you say, medicine is constantly evolving. 

[Treasur]

I was initially sucked into my then h's mental health vortex bc he was so obviously ill and i was frightened for him. With time and events of course I became frightened OF him. Which was even worse    I knew he was ill initially but I didn't know our marriage had died.

My relationship and marriage was always based on love freely given, on a deep appreciation. Or so it seemed to me. Much as I did not want to lose my h from my life, after a few WTF months, I honestly felt that I did not want a relationship which was not based on love and appreciation freely given. It felt less than somehow, even wrong...which was confusing bc my vows mattered to me very much even though they had obviously stopped mattering to my then h. After wrestling with it for quite a long time, I decided that I needed to look at my vows to this particular human through a different lens. One that was about respecting his choice even if I didn't like it or understand it and respecting my choice too to be in a relationship where I was appreciated...so the only way to honour my vows and who I thought we had been to each other was to let him go with as much grace as I could dig out. In the end I suppose, I found out that marriage to me was less of a contract and more a co-creation...which stopped when he wanted to end it. Obligation is about control isn't it? And assuming I am right about someone elses life path which is a pretty damn arrogant way of thinking isn't it?

It was difficult for me though bc it challenged almost everything I believed...about my faith, about love, about marriage, about family, about my h, about myself, about how my world worked. Everything.
 
Perhaps where my xh is right now is exactly where he needs to be to deal with his own unfinished business....it is his story and perhaps someday I will learn more about what the story was. Meanwhile I can only focus on my own story can't I? And other humans who DO want to play with me 

[Disillusioned]

I don’t see much talk of sex/porn addiction in MLC discussions. It’s a blatant factor in the MLCs I’ve been subjected to. And finally the only partner recovery work that has been beneficial and focused as much on my own history, trauma, patterns, and health as on the MLCer’s. For whatever that’s worth.

My MLCW dropped this on me:  "I have to watch porn just to have sex with you.  I sit in the bathroom watching it on my IPAD."  Prior to this, she had never mentioned it, or shown any interest in it, even when I mentioned it once or twice during the course of our marriage since lack of sex was a major issue.  Just a few months before this wonderful little nugget, she had asked if I wanted to watch it together, for the first time ever.  I declined and told her all I needed was her.  Little did I know what was brewing in the background.

[Thunder]

Terra,

Thank you so much for a truly awesome post.   

[sachat3]

I don’t think for me, my MLCer has a major mental illness. I think he’s depressed but he is living with an Ow. He’s the father of my three kids. So if he came to me for advice. Sure I wouldn’t turn him away. But frankly, I’ve told him at Bd he needed help. Other than that my hands are tied. It’s not my place any more and even if I said “Clington you need help” he wouldn’t listen. He would think it was my way of minimising his relationship with Ow.

Also, I don’t think any of us have it better or worse. We have it different. I turned 26, 2 months before BD. I had 3 kids by this point (6,3&1) and frankly it was firetrucking hard but I see silver linings. My kids won’t remember much of this. They may for a while but not for life. Also, me being younger meant it’s somewhat easier to rebuild my life. Colleges etc can get funding for me to take a course making them cheaper for me. I also think it’s probably an experience I can use later in life. There’s nothing easy about this but we’ve got to make the most of it. As best we can anyway.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Also, me being younger meant it’s somewhat easier to rebuild my life.

I won't say that I think one is easier or harder but if I have to start over I would rather be younger. I'm 61 years old. Most of the people I know who are my age are pretty much set in their ways. There doesn't seem to be much room for compromise.

Financially, I would also rather be younger if I have to start over. Two years ago my wife received half of my retirement account in her divorce. If we would have stayed together we would have enough money in that account that we could retire today. Instead, I have about half the amount that I need to retire. Instead of retiring in a year when I'm 62 I'll be retiring in 9 years when I'm 70.

[sachat3]

I agree. That’s probably one positive I have. Also we were never married. So there was no divorce but it pushed me to make my own life. When we were together. He was the breadwinner and I depended on him financially. It’s not a mistake I’ll make if we reconcile or if I find someone else. There’s no harm being financially secure in yourself!

I think the negative side is, to be a single mum to 3 at 26 with a MLCer ex is HARD. Especially because aside from this forum. None of my friends understood.