[shopgirl]

Hi all,

The readers digest version of my story is this;

H has been in replay since summer of 2016.  Heavy running from December 2016-January 2018.  He has pretty much stopped most replay behaviors-

*Drinking is no more
*Unaccounted for time missing is no more
*Monstering/anger/hatred/blaming towards me is completely gone
*OW is gone (although I do believe she initiates contact every once in a while- but the dynamic of the R changed months ago, as it was dwindling out- but not naive to not think it can't begin again or whatever)
*Harley is still a big thing in his life, but not AS big as it used to be- still pretty big, though.
*Spending money is still somewhat there

He has turned kind towards me, thanks me for EVERYTHING.

He the last 2 months has withdrawn completely from me, distancing himself and saying:
1. that he just can't forgive me for something I did 16 years ago
2. that he isn't happy, and hasn't been the past 3 years, and that he only stayed for the kids (total hogwash)
3. that he knows no-one will ever love him as much as I love him
4. that he wishes he loved me like that
5. that he wishes that there WAS someone else in his life, so that I could "blame him for all of this" and not take all the blame.  But he doesn't want me to take all the blame, yet will not own up to anything HE has done to get us where we are right now.  haha.
6. That he doesn't want to be here, or sleep in the same bed because it "hurts HIM" to see me and know he is hurting me.

Then, he turns around and says:
1. I'm the best person that he knows
2. That he loves me
3. That my weaknesses and shortcomings and past grievances against him have nothing to do with what he is going through right now
4. That his head is so unclear
5. Other MLC script quotes...

He has tried to have R talks, I haven't been good about setting that boundary and walking away, instead I listen, validate and sometimes lose my cool.  After this last time (3 weeks ago), I have learned my lesson. 

After I threw some truth BOMBS- like NUCLEAR- at him, he of course got ticked, and said he was "done" and moving out.  He has taken only a weeks worth of clothes, and is staying at his office.  He comes home whenever he can, he finds reasons to text me nearly every day, and he is constantly checking to see if I am still open to him. 

He is always soft towards me, hugs me tightly, still wants me physically, and this past weekend as he was leaving after dinner, S17 & I got a "I love you guys" as he was walking out the door.

I have done a lot of mirror work, and changed my outlook on life, grace, mercy & forgiveness.  I have learned patience- an art I never possessed before this.  I believe he entered the tunnel of MLC back in 2015.  Now at nearly 19-20 months of Replay, he is not moving much in terms of running.  He is semi-depressed, but he is FIGHTING it, and still looking towards outside targets to blame (Me). 

He admits he has no joy. 

He has no peace, no comfort.  I can literally see the turmoil going on within him.  The hopelessness and helplessness.  The depression and the self hatred.  I do believe he is making baby steps in progressing toward liminality, but he is fighting it for the most part. 

He is trying to do things with our S17.  He has pulled away from our D18, I'm assuming it's because he knows she suspects the A, and has said who she is, and he knows she is correct.  He tries to still keep a line of communication with her, but I can see he is nervous. 

Anyway, glad to be here.

[OldPilot]

Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[shopgirl]

And I need to add the the cycling, or the touch and go's are intense. 

If he "touches", it's intense, hardcore, all-in (as much as an MLC'er can do), and fast.

When he "goes"- it's just as dramatic of fashion. 

Lately I feel as if he is always "touching & going"...

There was one week about 3 months ago, where his "touching" was super fast & super intense.  For an entire week. 

He then withdrew just as fast as he came in, and it lasted two months with a couple R talks about how basically it was me to blame for his unhappiness.  Even though he admits that no-one can bring him joy but the Lord & that it's a choice only HE can make to be, he still won't take ownership, and realize it's not ME.  It's not our MARRIAGE. 

Our marriage was great before this.  We were really happy, and our foundation was solid.  We were best friends, lovers, confidants, etc.  I never saw this coming.

[Helpingme!]

Just let him ease along Shopgirl. My W is about the same.
I have been on a good cycle if you want too call it since Valentine's Day.
Maybe it was the card I gave her, maybe it was what I wrote in it, who knows.  But the card is still sitting by her jewelry bowl. She has moved it yet.
Just try and let the R talks go thru him. Let him talk. It's all lies about how miserable thwy have ALWAYS been.
Hang in there.

[Thunder]

Hi shopgirl,

I'm sorry you find yourself here but you will get very good support from people who understand what you are going through.

I sent you a PM (private message) with some information for you.

[shopgirl]

I had this text interaction this morning with H:

H: Morning.  What do I need to do for prom?

ME: Good morning.  Nothing- there's nothing to do.

H: Do I have to take pics

ME: I mean, you don't have to if you don't want to.  I don't know what their plan is- they were still undecided as of midnight last night as to where and when.

H: Ok, well I won't worry about it if it's not a big deal


I didn't reply.  The first thing that jumped out at me were the words "need, have, won't"  It was as if he looked at this as a chore- something he didn't want to do, but felt like I would make him.

 I never thought I "made" him do anything with these sorts of things, I just always assumed that he wanted to go, so I would just tell him the schedule and when we needed to be somewhere... looking back, perhaps I did him a disservice.  I shouldn't have just assumed he wanted to be a part of this kind of thing with his kids.  Perhaps this was a controlling aspect that I just figured was my "job" of being a wife- to schedule it and tell him what the plan was. 

 I'm not going to tell him that it IS a big deal, he is a grown man, and knows that his D's senior prom IS a big deal.  And I'm not his mother, I don't need to tell him what to do and guilt or control him in to going if he doesn't have the desire to do so. 

So, I will go, take pics of her and her friends, get pics with her and try to make the best out of it.  I know I will get questions from other parents as to where H is.  I'm not looking forward to that, but oh well, it is what it is.

He has really pulled away from her.  I think it's because he knows she knows about the A.  He does everything with our S. 

I'm going to try to make sure she has a special day today.  Try to get her to forget about it- even for just a little while. 

***AM I WRONG TO NOT TELL HIM THAT HE NEEDS TO BE THERE FOR HER?***  I mean, we are supposed to "let them go", and let them cause whatever destruction with their choices they choose- but when is it necessary for me to step in and try to protect the relationship between D and him?  They were thick as thieves before MLC. 

[Treasur]

Is it not between D and her F? Does she want him to be involved? If so, I guess she could ask him directly? Or you could suggest he asks her if you think that would be ok with her? Time to break the old habits and stay out of the firing line of something you didn't break and can't fix IMHO?

[shopgirl]

Is it not between D and her F? Does she want him to be involved? If so, I guess she could ask him directly? Or you could suggest he asks her if you think that would be ok with her? Time to break the old habits and stay out of the firing line of something you didn't break and can't fix IMHO?

Yeah, I thought about that.

 Right now, she is so mad at him, she says she doesn't want him there.  The way she sees it, why would she ask him if he really doesn't want to go. 

You're right though, I will stay out of the firing line and mention that to her, that if she wants him there, she needs to tell him.  She needs to take a few moments to calm down though.  I'll discuss it with her when she gets back from picking up the boutonniere for her date. 

[OldPilot]

I agree - let him make his own decisions.

Your job is to NOT interfere with his relationship with the kids.

[OffRoad]

I have a slightly different take. When he said "Do I have to take pictures?" I would have replied "If you want to take pictures of your daughter, I will let you know when she knows what the plan is."

We are so upset at their poor actions, we might misinterpret the ones where they are trying. He did ask " What do I need to do for Prom." He didn't ignore it.  By saying "you don't have to if you don't want to" you have minimized the importance of Prom,  and MLC brain responds accordingly. "If no one cares if I take pictures, then I won't "

It's just a different perspective,  but it may or may not matter one way or another.

[hopeandfaith]

Interesting point Offroad.  Things can get so easily misinterpreted by text anyway, let alone when MLC is involved.  I would let him know what the plans are and then leave it to him to decide what to do.

[shopgirl]

OffRoad & Hopeand Faith,

I did end up reconsidering and after I got the plans for pictures I texted him with the time and place and told him to let us know if he was going to make it.

He texted back almost immediately and said he would see us there.

He then texted back a couple hours later saying that he has had a horrible headache the past two days... (mind you he was fine to play in a golf tournament all day with our S17)...

I simply replied “I’m sorry to hear that.”  Knowing good and we’ll be was backing out.

He was home when D18 and I got home.  He follows me around like a little puppy anytime he is home, so he promptly followed me to the bedroom and stayed with us while I finished her makeup. 

He then said that he was just going to take a pic with her at home and not go to the group pics and see her off.  I got a pic of him and her and one of the three of us and then D18 and I left. 

He had told S17 that he wanted him to spend the night at the shop so they could leave early in the morning to go for a motorcycle ride.  Early evening S17 called him and asked if he still wanted him to spend the night- he said no.  A few hours later, H called S17 and asked when he was going to got there- S17 reminded him that H told him to just come in the morning.  H had forgotten that.  He is getting more and more forgetful.  More erratic.  It’s as if he is clinging to anything and everything in order to not focus on himself.  It’s like a desperate cling- does that make sense?  It’s not any of the active running like last year- but it’s little things.  Not quite sure what to make of it.

So, all in all- I guess H gets half credit for at least seeing her before prom.  I just wish he would’ve participated, for her sake- but it’s not up to me.

[OffRoad]

Half credit is fine. In my mind, the headache was caused by his own stress over the situation. I think he was embarrassed to show his face around Ds friends and their families, but didn't want to miss out altogether or disappoint D completely.

You did well. If paving the way works, you laid down some yellow bricks for him to follow.

[JoJoJo]

Hey SG!  Following along!

I am glad to hear he was somewhat there for prom. You did a good job navigating through this!  I know how exhausting it is...not quite what you thought you’d be dealing with when you started a family!  But two thumbs up 👍🏽 for how you handled it❤️❤️❤️

[shopgirl]

Half credit is fine. In my mind, the headache was caused by his own stress over the situation. I think he was embarrassed to show his face around Ds friends and their families, but didn't want to miss out altogether or disappoint D completely.

You did well. If paving the way works, you laid down some yellow bricks for him to follow.

I agree Offroad, for sure.  And thank you, slowly but surely, I'm getting this whole detachment thing... haha. 

Hey SG!  Following along!

I am glad to hear he was somewhat there for prom. You did a good job navigating through this!  I know how exhausting it is...not quite what you thought you’d be dealing with when you started a family!  But two thumbs up 👍🏽 for how you handled it❤️❤️❤️

Thanks, friend. <3


A little recap of the past few days;

Sunday he texted me in the morning- he was on a motorcycle ride with S17 (he turned 17 today!)
Told me that they were having a blast.
I waited a few hours to text back. 

He also texted D18 and asked her how prom was, and if he needed to hurt her "date"...
Let me explain- he is SO uncomfortable with D18 now.  He knows that she knows about the A, and who it was with.

 He didn't act this way with her when he was deep in replay, this has only been in the past 4 months or so.  He has distanced from her a LOT/quickly as of the past couple months.  I'm assuming its guilt & shame.  Three weeks ago he told me that I was already turning her against him.  I've done nothing of the sort, but I just replied "I'm sorry you feel that way."

So, back to the comment.  He is so awkwardly social with her these days, that he was joking around and trying to act "protective" and say that he would "hurt him" if he touched her.  It was the only thing he could think of to talk to her about.  He didn't even think to tell her that she looked beautiful. (that's something he always did pre-mlc, he's always complimented her, and they've always had a close relationship).  In all of his joking, he sounded like a 17-year old kid.

So the next day, when he texted her asking about prom, he brought up "hurting him" again.  D18 just rolled her eyes and didn't engage in the convo, instead shut it down by saying "No dad, I've told you he is a friend, and he isn't like that." He replied, "are you sure?"  And she replied "yes." And that was it.

Anyway, his comments about this reflect that of a 17-year old boy.  And that brings me to my next observations by my S17;

- S17 said that H told him that his new flat billed Harley Davidson hat (H used to make fun of those hats and say that "wanna be punks" wore them- he bought this about a month ago, and now he wears that silly hat with everything and it doesn't match anything he has) anyway, he told S17 that his gray hair didn't go well with the hat.

- S17 said that while they were playing golf, they were partnered up with another father/son duo, and H told S17 that he didn't think they liked him, that he thought they liked S17, but not him.

-S17 said that H told the duo they were partnered with that getting into the factory business was the biggest mistake he ever made. (to me this is HUGE- for him to admit that to strangers)

- S17 said that H listed to Shawn Mendes on repeat all day while they were riding.  This is a 20-something singer that all the teens know.  H used to tease our kids about listening to him.  *side note, I'll take Shawn Mendes over the dark music he got into while in active replay, any day.*

-S17 said that H was trying to make friends with this one guy on their ride, someone S17 said that he wouldn't have befriended before mlc. And even asked for his number. 

S17 was not amused by any of these things.  I have noticed that they are becoming increasingly annoyed by some of his antics.  I have been having more concentrated heart to hearts with them about grace, compassion, walking ahead in order to be a light.  They aren't rude or anything towards him, I would never tolerate that, and they don't want to be.  They love him.  It's so hard to watch them go through this knowing that they fully realize what is going on.

So, the biggest thing Sunday is that H allowed S17 to ride home on his motorcycle (40-minute drive) with his cell phone dead.  Didn't think to have him stay at the factory and charge it a bit.  Well, as it so happens, S17 motorcycle breaks down on the side of the highway, and he has no way to contact us.  A stranger let him use his phone, he called H, H didn't answer (says he didn't even see that he had a missed call till 1 1/2 hours later), and so the stranger went back to his house, grabbed a trailer, drove back to S17, S17 loaded up his bike on the trailer, and the stranger took him home.  Meanwhile, me & D18 were out looking for him (he was well over 30 mins late from when he should've been home- H had texted asking if he made it home earlier- then after 15 mins from when he for sure should've been home, I told H I was going looking for him.  H then about 10 mins later, followed suit and started looking from his direction). 

When H saw the number, he called and the stranger explained everything.  H was mad that S17 didn't leave a v/m or text, and frankly, I was mad at the both of them.  S17 for not leaving a v/m or text, AND not calling me, or texting me, but I was mad at H for not having him stay at the factory for 15 mins and charge his phone!  What parent sends their kids out on a motorcycle without a charged cell phone?  An MLC one.  haha. 

I didn't say anything to H.  He said at the end of it that she should've had him stay there and charge his phone, and that he knew better and would do that next time.

He has texted me every day, most of it is just excuses to text.  He texted me last night asking what I wanted to do for S17 birthday.  I didn't respond until this morning.  He seemed a little disappointed that we weren't celebrating tonight.  I told him that the kids and I discussed it and we decided that Sunday was the best for us and asked if that worked for him.  He said that would be fine, and asked what he wanted to do. 

Last night S17 said that he wanted to go mini-golfing.  At first I wasn't so sure about that, as H hasn't wanted to do anything family related (like going and doing anything fun) in a very LONG time, so I didn't want to do that in case it would make him uncomfortable and want away from us even more. 

And then I saw that way of thinking for what it truly was.  I have been catering to him.  Putting him before any of us. If I didn't think he could handle it, or would like it, we didn't do it.  I believe that I have done this *somewhat slightly* in our normal life, but NOT anywhere close to the extent that I have done it in MLC. 

I have been trying to not make waves, to make everything easy, light, and the way HE would want it.  I took my role as "wife" and making our home relaxing, pleasing, and a source of comfort to the extreme.  I wanted our home to be a refuge, a safe place for him to unwind and relax, have no pressure, and pleasing to H. 

I made the decision that was stopping now.  H asked this morning what S17 wanted to do.  I told him.  He replied "Oh, ok"   

So now, I'm prepared to go mini-golfing with my family, with or without H.  If he wants to be a part of our family and come, great, if not, great.  But I'm not going to allow his crisis to dictate what we can and cannot do when it comes to these sorts of things.  Life goes on, with or without him.  But I don't want to look back in 20 years with regrets that I didn't go out and have fun with my kids more because H might think it uncomfortable.

It's his choice of whether or not he wants to come, and if he doesn't, that's HIS loss.  I'm no longer going to try to control the environment so that it doesn't make H uncomfortable.  I catered to him during this out of fear that he would leave us.  Guess what?  He is choosing to stay at his factory.  He is choosing not to see or talk with his kids everyday.  A lot of good that did me.  So, huge lightbulb moment first thing this morning.  No more.  Me and the kids come first, he is welcome to tag along if he desires. 

*Side note- and this is just funny, H called S17 last night around 8:45 and asked where I was.  S17 said I just got home. Then he asked where D18 was, and S17 told him she was at work.  In less than 30 seconds, H texted me wanting to talk about S17 birthday... while he is on the phone with S17.  I know my H well enough to know that he was concerned as to where I had been ALONE until 8:45... haha.  Silly MLC'er.

I have definitely grown by leaps and bounds independently over these past 3 weeks.  I feel as if I have successfully detached and have a grasp on how to lead him by walking and moving forward and showing him my back.  I don't know it all, not even close, and have a lot to learn as I go, but my steps are sure footed.  I feel better than I have in a year. 

[Treasur]

I have been catering to him.  Putting him before any of us. If I didn't think he could handle it, or would like it, we didn't do it.  I believe that I have done this *somewhat slightly* in our normal life, but NOT anywhere close to the extent that I have done it in MLC. 

I made the decision that was stopping now.  H asked this morning what S17 wanted to do.  I told him.  He replied "Oh, ok"   

So, huge lightbulb moment first thing this morning.  No more.  Me and the kids come first, he is welcome to tag along if he desires. 

I feel better than I have in a year.

Wow. That sounds like a great lightbulb moment...and we know them when we have them don't we?
And that feeling better thing too. Wow. Go, you! 

[bipolared]

Yes, it’s the hardest thing to just let them go and not  intervene when we see them doing things that will cause a lifetime of regret.  You can’t make someone be a parent and you can’t save their relationship with the children.  They have to do their work and you have to do your work. 

[Acorn]

‘No more catering to him’.  Excellent idea, SG!
Never mind what he says and does and certainly don’t read anything into it. 
Leave him be and you go right ahead and live your life, I say.
Isn’t it refreshing to take one’s eyes and ears off  MLCer and turn that focus on ourselves and the dear children?!

We all know in theory that we were never created as a cog in MLCer’s wheel of life and that we have our very own wheels to turn.  In practice, many women end up playing that cog...  No more, you said.  Fantastic!  Let your MLCer spin his own wheel, though out of control by varying degrees whilst in MLC. 

[shopgirl]

UPDATE:

H has been in constant contact yesterday and today.  It's all things that are relevant to our life, but not all necessary for him to contact me about... he asked me to pick out a color for the retaining wall at our spec house.  I was  the one who designed all of our spec houses, and once he was neck deep into his A, he wouldn't let me do ANYTHING with the factory or the spec homes.  This is now the fourth thing he has asked me to help with in relation to the factory & spec homes in the past 3 months.  Even to the point of when I told him my color choice, his reply was "If that's the one you like, that's the one I'll go with."  it seemed so... normal.

Then he told me that something we accomplished last night needed to be celebrated, and spoke as if we were "together"...

This morning he texts again, asking if he has clean jeans at the house.  I told him yes, and he said that he was taking his surrogate grandma to a concert tonight. (He always takes her to see her favorites- Charley Pride, Kenny Rogers, etc)  Although, this time I have a hunch they are going to go see Dwight Yoakum

(backstory- H LOVED Dwight growing up but had never seen him in concert.  For Fathers Day about 9 years ago, I surprised him with an intimate concert with Dwight.  I've never been a huge fan myself, but I had a blast because it was fulfilling one of his dreams. Years later, we were talking with some friends, and that was brought up, and I joking made reference to his nasal-y sounding voice, but I also said that it was awesome because it was just a little room with few people in it, and that he put on a good show.) 

Fast forward to a little over a year ago, he tells me that he will never take me to another concert unless he knows that I love the singer because it hurt him that I made fun of Dwight Yoakum all those years ago, and so he promised himself he wouldn't do that again!  (HELLO, MLC)

 Anywhoo-  I knew he would be coming to the house this afternoon. 

Meanwhile, he asks for some info that has been a little bit of a source of contention between us.  I have fought it before now, but I just don't care to bring it up any longer, mainly because I have let the subject matter go, and have the attitude of "whatever" it doesn't matter if I know or not.  I gave him the information without delay.  I think he may have been somewhat surprised.

He got home.  I'm soft and kind.  He chats a bit, goes into the garage with S17 to look at his bike, and then changes to get ready.  He comes out and asks if he looks alright.  I look and tell him "Yes, it looks great."  He says, "Well, I definitely wouldn't say that it looks great, not by any means. That's an exaggeration."  Putting himself down.  I stayed quiet.

He talks to me a bit more, and then goes to leave and says, "Well, I've got to roll."  I kept working at my desk and said "Okay." 

He stops in the doorway.  I see his reflection in the frames glass on my desk.  I turn around, and he said "I've got to go to R's house quick, so I've got to go."  Looking at me in the eyes. I knew he wanted me to get up and give him a hug.

 I just sat there and said "Okay, be safe, have fun."  H looked at me then looked down and away and said "Huh, okay."  Quietly to himself.  I know he was disappointed that I didn't get up and give him a hug goodbye.  I saw the pain. 

Did I do the right thing by not initiating getting up and walking to him? 

Normally (relatively speaking since it's MLC we're talking about), he would say "Are you going to give me a hug?" When I haven't gotten up.  I wait for him to invite me to a hug.  This time, he expected me to get up and give him one.  I'm not sure why?

I'm not going to lie.  It hurt me to see him in pain.  To know that he wanted affection from me, and I didn't offer it.  Maybe it's because I've been doing little else today than planning D18's graduation stuff including sorting pictures for her party, and walking down memory lane... alone and with my hormones slightly out of whack.  Knowing that this should be a time of celebration and specialness with him and me, and instead, I'm not able to share my emotions, thoughts and such with him.  I just think my emotions are at the surface right now.  And yes, I'm crying, but I didn't let him see any hint of weakness. 

Just too many emotions to handle this next week.  Sweet, fun ones, bittersweet ones and sad ones.

[shopgirl]

This weekend was- WOW.  As my D18 would say, it was "So EXTRA"

Okay- readers digest version:

Saturday, he came over for really no reason whatsoever...
He fitted me for a motorcycle helmet... (!!!!!!!!!  not sure what to make of that)

 He asked why my cousin wasn't staying at the house for D18's graduation, I told him there wasn't enough room, and he was like "she can sleep in the room with you" and I think he was testing me to see if my cousin knows about anything.  I told him that firstly she doesn't know anything that is going on, and second, that she already booked her hotel. 

We talked a bit about D18 and the week coming up.  I think he maybe realized a little at what he was missing not living here.  I told him about last Friday being her last Friday of high school, and how it was bittersweet.  I told him about all the party plans, and the stuff that I have already accomplished for her dorm room and such.  I think it maybe hit him that I'm taking care of things he isn't even aware of, and he isn't a part of it.

For the first hour or so, we were alone, and he talked about stuff- but then, as conversation dwindled a little, he got nervous.  Paced a little, opened the front door to "let air in" but stood by the doorway... incase he needed a quick getaway???  haha.  he bought us all breakfast again.

When D18 got home (she spent the night babysitting), he paid a lot of attention to her, had her sit on his lap and told her how pretty she looked for prom.  He talked to her about her last Friday of school, and about this week.  I could be wishful thinking, but I think this weekend opened his eyes slightly to things he is missing.

He switched out a fuse in my car.

He piddled around the house for about 4 hours, then left to go get some other stuff done.

Yesterday, we got home from church around two because we went to third service and he was already here and had been looking through family photos while waiting for us.

He told the kids with me right there that out of all of my friends, I was by far the prettiest.

We went to lunch, and he mentioned Mothers Day... I think he was testing met to see my reaction.  I could be reading into it, but I don't know.  Last mothers day, he purchased the OW $100 mothers day present and I got nothing. I also think they may have spent the night before mothers day together, but I have no proof... I'm pretty sure he knows what I suspect, and he is fully aware that I know everything he purchased for her.

 I think he mentioned it to see what my reaction would be... he said that he was watching something on tv, and they mentioned that it was mothers day, and he freaked out and was like, "wait, that's next week, and had to check his calendar to make sure he didn't miss it"...  I just smiled and laughed, showing no signs of sadness or hurt. 

He HUNG UP decor around the house.  Everything that is hanging in our home, I HAD TO DO.  He has done it our entire life- but not since we moved to this house- I have done EVERYTHING.  But yesterday he offered, and was like "Hey, if you want to hang this stuff, lets go ahead and do it!"

Then, one of my previous clients and her family were there at the mini golf, and saw me- they yelled at me and the mom was like "we miss you and how awesome you & L (my business partner) are!!!"  Then she was talking and j was paying full attention and she said "OMG, I can't get over how amazing you look!  I mean, you look great- like you shouldn't have a high school graduate!"  I was like "ohhhh, thank you...!!!"  And then she looked at H and said "you've got a gorgeous family, you're a lucky man!..."  haha.  I love truth darts when they don't come from me.

In my head I was just like "you couldn't have said more perfect things if I would've paid and prompted you..." :LOL:


The last two days have been more relaxed than ever in the past year+. I've hardly been nervous.  Maybe it's just that I have successfully detached? And I'm just more myself now.

Both kids said that this was the most normal we (the family) have been in a year.

He put my clothes from the washer into the dryer and hung the bath mats to dry like I do.

OHHHHH.  AND- he was going to change out the lightbulbs, but when he went to get them, he realized we didn't have anymore so he said he would have to get some.

You don't take pride in getting a house ready for company if you don't think it's your "home" anymore...

He asked S17 if that was his milk glass sitting on the dining room table. S17 said yes, and H said "well who is your maid?" And S17 said "I'll get it just a minute" H said "no you won't get it if you wait just a minute you need to do it now there's nobody here that your maid."

 I had my back turned towards them at the time, and I was seriously dying. He hasn't parented like that in a year or more.

After going out to lunch and playing mini golf, we went home and watched a movie and he was looking through old pictures I had brought in from the garage to show D18.

He engaged with us, and seemed almost relaxed.  We took a pic of the 4 of us, and he actually looks HAPPY.  Like, happy, happy.   

This is by far the best weekend we have had in over a year.  He can go backwards, I know, so I'm grateful for it and pray that he keeps making positive steps forward.  This weekend felt good. And I wasn't freaking out on the inside. 

Yesterday was the longest amount of time he has spent with us in a LONG time.  He did things around the house, engaged in conversation with all of us, complimented me, and actually laughed and joked around.  It seems too good to be true.  Hugs all around from him.  Both when he arrives, and when he leaves.

He even asked how church was... that is HUGE.  Before MLC, he led so many people to the Lord.  He led Bible studies in peoples homes, baptized people, he was an amazing man of God.  Since MLC, all church attendance is long gone, and he doesn't ask about it.  Until yesterday. 

I don't have any expectations, and I'm not reading into any of it, but this weekend was nice.  And for the most part, my nerves weren't in overdrive.


 This weekend, I realized some things that I should've handled differently throughout this crisis, and some controlling behaviors I displayed while in the turmoil of deep replay, and now I see that not only was it not healthy, but it was unrealistic to think that I could control/fix the entire atmosphere when he was around.

 There were little things this weekend that happened (songs that came on, or something said by the kids) that 6 months ago, I would've turned off, or given them a look to change the subject, because it could possibly make him think of something, trigger something, make him justify his behavior even more, etc., I literally FED MY FEARS.

 BUT I've recently realized that this is LIFE.  This is the real world, and I can't live my life watching and waiting to take control of the situation as soon as I sense something that could be uncomfortable for him, or myself coming up.  And frankly, I don't WANT to live that way. I want my life to be authentic.  I don't want to worry about anyone elses issues, and try to fix them, or worse, try to avoid them having to face them.

I'm working through forgiving myself for these things I've displayed through his crisis.  I'm just astounded at how hyper aware I was of it when put in the situation this weekend.  It was an amazing feeling to deny the control, deny the FEAR, and let LIFE happen, knowing that I was perfectly fine, the kids were perfectly fine, and that's all that matters. 

[Helpingme!]

Shopgirl
Your right, you should live life. You shouldn't have too walk on eggshells making it all comfy for him.
The reality of life is all he needs. Darts will fly.
Just do as you said. Let him see you are living, and happy too. He can join in, live with yall, or sit around on his pitty potty.
This week only happens ince for your D, make the best of it.

[Acorn]

Quote:

It was an amazing feeling to deny the control, deny the FEAR, and let LIFE happen, knowing that I was perfectly fine, the kids were perfectly fine, and that's all that matters. 

Yes, yes, yes!!!  I’m in total agreement with you on this attitude.  Let him prance about on the MLC stage and you get out the theatre pronto and focus on your life.  Pay no mind to what he said and did and certainly don’t read anything into it.  MLCers are fickle.  They change faster than you can say, ‘Boo!’.  To be honest, when I lost the H focus, I could finally start to concentrate on my life.  I could also start to learn more about myself.  No wonder, a person has only so much emotional reservoir to expend! 

Let YOUR life happen, SG. Got a feeling you are well on your way.  Glad for you!

[JoJoJo]

Saturday, he came over for really no reason whatsoever...
He fitted me for a motorcycle helmet... (!!!!!!!!!  not sure what to make of that)

Ok I have to know how you handled this!  I mean is riding on motorcycles an interest of yours?  I know he and your S17 have motorcycles but did he say why he wanted you to get a helmet?


 

He engaged with us, and seemed almost relaxed.  We took a pic of the 4 of us, and he actually looks HAPPY.  Like, happy, happy.   

This is by far the best weekend we have had in over a year.  He can go backwards, I know, so I'm grateful for it and pray that he keeps making positive steps forward.  This weekend felt good. And I wasn't freaking out on the inside. 

Yesterday was the longest amount of time he has spent with us in a LONG time.  He did things around the house, engaged in conversation with all of us, complimented me, and actually laughed and joked around.  It seems too good to be true.  Hugs all around from him.  Both when he arrives, and when he leaves.

He even asked how church was... that is HUGE.  Before MLC, he led so many people to the Lord.  He led Bible studies in peoples homes, baptized people, he was an amazing man of God.  Since MLC, all church attendance is long gone, and he doesn't ask about it.  Until yesterday. 

I don't have any expectations, and I'm not reading into any of it, but this weekend was nice.  And for the most part, my nerves weren't in overdrive.


 This weekend, I realized some things that I should've handled differently throughout this crisis, and some controlling behaviors I displayed while in the turmoil of deep replay, and now I see that not only was it not healthy, but it was unrealistic to think that I could control/fix the entire atmosphere when he was around.

 There were little things this weekend that happened (songs that came on, or something said by the kids) that 6 months ago, I would've turned off, or given them a look to change the subject, because it could possibly make him think of something, trigger something, make him justify his behavior even more, etc., I literally FED MY FEARS.

 BUT I've recently realized that this is LIFE.  This is the real world, and I can't live my life watching and waiting to take control of the situation as soon as I sense something that could be uncomfortable for him, or myself coming up.  And frankly, I don't WANT to live that way. I want my life to be authentic.  I don't want to worry about anyone elses issues, and try to fix them, or worse, try to avoid them having to face them.

I'm working through forgiving myself for these things I've displayed through his crisis.  I'm just astounded at how hyper aware I was of it when put in the situation this weekend.  It was an amazing feeling to deny the control, deny the FEAR, and let LIFE happen, knowing that I was perfectly fine, the kids were perfectly fine, and that's all that matters. 

Lots of positive thoughts for you!  I know how hard all this is!  I just have one thing to say LIFE IS TOUGH, BUT SO ARE YOU!  Love ya girl!

[shopgirl]

Thank you, Helping, Acorn & Jo. 

D18 graduates this weekend.  This week has been packed with ceremonies, parties, prepping, etc.

H came to both the awards ceremony & the baccalaureate.  He had wanted me to tell him what to do, and if he needed to go to both, but I refused to, and basically told him it was entirely up to him.  He has been soft, kind, and was joking around with me during the awards ceremony.  Leaning in towards me the whole time, and for a few moments, I think he "forgot" he was in crisis, and put his arm around my chair.  He cut himself down in a joking manner (something to the effect that he needs to look in the mirror every morning and tell himself that he is "good enough" and "worth something"). 

He has tried a little to "connect" with D18.  He seems to cycle with her too. 

She won lots of awards, and was awarded a scholarship, we didn't know that ahead of time, so it was a happy surprise when they announced it. 

The baccalaureate service had him uncomfortable... I figured it would, it's been a long time since he has been in church, and some of what the various pastors were saying were hitting home.  It was a good service. 

A friend told me that this week would be tough emotionally, that all emotions would rise up to the surface, and they were right.  I have had just about every emotion come up.  I'm not sleeping well at all, and my to-do list is getting longer instead of shorter. 

I had ordered all of the decor for D18's party, and paid extra to expedite shipping- the company promised rush delivery and all was good.  It was all to be delivered yesterday.  Instead, I received a message from the owner asking if the order was supposed to be delivered this week or next... luckily I had made sure that all of our communication was clear in our messages, and they had acknowledged in the previous messages as to when the delivery date was... I clarified everything, they went back through the messages, and refused to overnight the items, instead issuing a refund.  I didn't have time to do anything about it yesterday, as we had D18's best friends graduation to go to, so I'm running into town to try and figure out all new decor quick.  Family is getting here this afternoon from out of state, and I still have groceries to get, and dinner to prepare. 

I say all of that in order to say that I found it interesting and weirdly calming that while my blood pressure started sky rocketing at the thought of starting over from scratch with decor, (and truly, no time to do so), there were lessons I learned thanks to MLC that I was able to tap into and let go of the anxiety and stress I would've normally had.  A lot of it was perspective.  Focusing on what is truly important. Not getting fixated on the details, and reprioritizing. 

It's not a big deal, but it's the first time I've had a real-life "issue" come up that I've seen the changes that I've made in myself put into action. (other than with H and the crisis). 

H has been in contact all week, minus Monday.  I think he was with me so much this past weekend his little mlc heart needed a break.

I feel like there are times when I see H clearly following my lead in actions and in word.  Is that normal?  It's as if he watches me, and if I do something, then he trusts that it's correct, and does it as well.  I know I'm probably not making sense- and I'm so sleep deprived, that I can't think of an example at the moment, but this is something I've picked up on the past few weeks. 

I had myself a little cry this morning, just letting go further of the expectations I've had since becoming a mom of experiencing this time of our lives together and enjoying it.  I've always thought this time of my life would look differently.  It's just accepting more that it is what it is, and being content in it.  I think I got it out of my system.  Time to buck up and get stuff done.  Tomorrow is the big day.  So excited for D18. 

Thankful to have family coming in.  It's been too long since I've seen them.

[shopgirl]

Last week is a blur.  We had all the ceremonies & banquets, etc that usually lead up to graduation.  Friday, my cousin got in from out of state, and even though she was staying at a hotel nearby, H stayed here, I'm sure for appearance sake. 

Saturday morning, before all the hoopla & celebrating & party began, H and I had such a great, intimate talk about his work, the spec house, our finances, etc.  It was good, and made me feel as if he was seeing us as a team (which I've seen more of the past few months on and off).  It felt good, and was a nice way to start the day.

 H was acting "normal" in the fact that he was more than willing to help set up and do a lot of the manual work in getting ready for it, while we cooked, prepped and decorated.  He made sure we were supplied with breakfast.

The morning was fine- him even calling me "babe" once when he asked me to come and do something.  *It was a glance back to what used to be.

But then, as the day went on, and friends and family came, visited, ate, I saw irritation/pressure directed towards me begin to take place.  It was low key- but it was there.  Like a simmering pot of water. (I think having to be around family & friends, some of them knowing what is going on, and he knows they know, was a LOT for him- but he still did WAY better than I thought he would).

After we took pictures (but before the ceremony), there was about an hour to kill, so H had S17 take him to go see the spec house...  my guess was it was an excuse to get away from me, our families & friends because it was getting to be too much. 

During graduation, I could tell the irritation was growing (I use irritation, because I don't know how else to describe it?  Pressure?)  Then, right after the caps were tossed, the confetti was thrown, I sat there, and just took in the moment.  Before I knew it, D18 was walking past me as they were filing out, she looked at me and gave me that look- the one that says "I love you, thank you, etc" without saying a word- I started to tear up and H said "You should've gotten a picture of her, she was right there!"  I told him that I just hadn't expected her to be there, so I wasn't ready, and he replied "Nice one."  I looked at him and before even thinking (at that moment, mlc, and everything else in life was nonexistent so I didn't even think), and said "WOW."  Meaning, he was being ridiculously harsh... his reply: "Well, I only said that to you, because that's what you would've said to me if I did that." 

Just then, the mlc knowledge kicked back in, and I just ignored him, and didn't show up to the argument he was inviting me to.  After that, the irritation towards me grew a little bit more. 

Then when we got home, my family from out of town was there, and he seemed fine and smiling at me, laughing, all of that- engaged in conversation.  He KNOWS how to act in front of other people.  That is what is so confusing.

They left to go back to the hotel, and by that time it was 11:30.  I announced to him and S17 (D18 was at Project Graduation), that I was tired and going to bed.  He left early morning- about 7am I got a text from him.

"Happy Mothers Day! So proud of the mother that you are.  We have great kids and I give you the credit for that.  You've been a wonderful mother.  I hope you realize how much they love you.  You have set a great example for both of them.  You did a great job with D18 graduation."

H *surprisingly* came back around 2pm.  He got me a card, and had texted me early morning to say happy mothers day and said all of this stuff about how great of a mom I am.  I hate it all because all of that is stuff he has said right before he tells me that he doesn't love me like he should and isn't "happy"... it's just a trigger I need to work through and get over.

He came, gave me a card that him and the kids signed (he signed more of that sort of stuff in it), and then he stayed for a couple hours- we sat and all visited while D18 opened all her gifts and cards from graduation, ate, laughed and joked.

 He stayed about 3 hours before going fishing with his dad.  I know it was his dad because he put him on speaker phone while they made the plans... funny- I'm sure it was for my benefit, so I could hear that it was true, and that he was really going with his dad.

last year, he said he went "fishing" the night before mothers day, but I think he went to a hotel with OW.  he came home, got me a card that said nothing but "I love you, Oak" and the OW got the $100 present... I got nothing.

This year, he told me that his gift for me wasn't here yet, but that he got the family season passes to a big amusement park here...

 it's a VERY extravagant gift.  A little over $400.  He has NEVER spent that much on me for Mothers day.  EVER.  Is he making up for last year?  And buying ALL of us season passes?  I promise I'm not being hateful with these questions, they're just things I'm wondering about.  I think it's a good sign he bought us the family passes.


So Friday early evening, we get notice that an offer was made on the spec house.  We have had this home on the market for about a year, without a bite.  It's in a higher price bracket, and those are slow moving around here at the moment.  The offer was solid.  Only $4000 less than what we were asking.  It closes in 60 days.  that will completely pay off ALL of our personal debt.  In 60 days we will officially be DEBT FREE.  This is something that has been weighing us down for a long time.  we have never been in debt, and the stress of it has been keeping us in bondage for way too long.  Not only that, but we have been starting to receive checks in the mail from a place we thought didn't owe us... but they did.  And they are big checks.  HUGE blessings, they have contributed to us getting out of debt as well. 

To say that he is excited is an understatement. He has been making positive steps for the past 3 weeks.  There has been a change little by little in his personality & attitude.   He has been texting me everyday, several times a day, some is family business, but lately, now some of the texting is purely social.  Things he wouldn't have texted me, shared with me or told me about even a month ago.  He is acting as if I'm his best friend.  Joking, talking, teasing, sharing.  He is saying "us" and "we" regularly now in both conversation and texting.  He is looking forward to us going to the lake this summer...

He says the he feels as if weights are literally being lifted off now that the debt is gone.  That he feels he can breathe, and he thanked me for being so diligent for so long in praying for it, and told me that he knows it's definitely all because of God.  He is giving all credit to God, and he is in a really good place right now it seems.  He is finding excuses to text me, and it's purely visible that he feels huge amounts of weight lifted off.

I'd like your take on it. 

*Side note- I'm writing this super quick, as I have much to do for work, but wanted to hurry and update.

[JoJoJo]

Sounds like you are moving in the right direction!  Lots of love and prayers for you guys!

[shopgirl]

It's been a couple months since my last post, and things have changed quite a bit.  I feel the need to give an update- so here goes-

2 MONTHS AGO:

I get a text with song lyrics- this has always been something we have done- send each other songs (especially him to me), that talk about what is on our hearts or remind us of the other person.  This song, it talked about how he let me go without a fight, how he knew I was so lonely with him there, and how he chose not to talk to me.  That if he were to be so lucky to get a second chance, that he would hold on for dear life, and never let go of me, and wouldn't make the same mistakes again...

The next day, he comes to the house for no reason, and hugs me repeatedly, choking back tears, eyes filled with tears, near a breaking point, but not allowing himself to.

I don't hear from him aside from business texts until the next week.  He calls, he is agitated.  Not at me, and not towards me- but I can tell in his voice.  He questions me on what the kids have said about us.  (He told them about his affair on Fathers Day- that day was an epic crazy ride that started out really devastating, but turned into a day of healing and grace).  He hadn't approached the kids to ask if they were okay since that day... (shows you where they are in their mindset- a normal parent wouldn't lower a bomb like that, and not follow through and check up on their kids afterwards).  This was the first time he asked me about it.  Looking back, I'm wondering if he was trying to calculate how he would be received when he came back home.  I took the opportunity to speak LIFE into him.  It's not my job to tell him what the kids are thinking and feeling- if he wants to know, he can ask them.  BUT.  Instead I took the opportunity to tell him that they are ready to have their dad back, ready to have their family put back together, that we are all earnestly praying for him, that we believe he is worthy, he is valued, he is loved by us, and that he is a big asset to our family.  I reminded him of who he is IN Christ. 

*Now, I know that this is a "no-no" with a lot of LBS, and MLC people, but I know my husband, and I know that my approach with him like this does work for HIM.  It's not me manipulating, but I know that he responds well to me speaking life into him.  He has so many lies of the enemy in his head, tormenting him, that it is a salve to his heart.  My approach to him has never failed.  I have seen him gather strength, believing my words of affirmation and love.  I'm not saying everyone should do this, or that I'm right, but in my particular situation, it has proven to help him. 

With that being said- other than family business needing to be communicated, he hardly spoke to me at all for about 5-6 weeks.  Meanwhile, we moved our D18 into her dorm room- at first he questioned if he even needed to go... then he decided to, and only stayed 2 hours.  I could tell he was having a rough time.  Guilt was immense.  Then nothing for over a week. 

TWO WEEKS AGO:

He leaves for a business trip.  I meanwhile went on a trip of my own he knew nothing about.  He asks to come over when he got back, he ends up breaking down, apologizing for everything he has put me through, says that I didn't deserve any of it, that I'm the most spiritual person in his life, that I'm the best person he knows, that he misses me, that he loves me, and he thanked me for continuing to cover him in prayer, and being there for the kids when he wasn't.  He says that everything hit him hard in the face and that his heart is heavy.   He moves back home. 



He has now been home for a little over a week.  The depression I've seen in him for the past 4-5 months is no longer there- he isn't "happy, happy, joy, joy" but the darkness is mostly gone.  He is still withdrawing slightly, in and out at various times throughout the day- but it doesn't last long, then will make sure to reach out and be affectionate to me- hold my hand, hold me, lay his head on my shoulder, cuddle to watch a movie. 

He has opened up to me and confessed some things that he did while in replay.  He has also acknowledged that I have been more patient than anyone should ever have to, and that I deserve answers to the questions I have about the affair, and that I will get those answers, but he is asking for me to patient a little while longer while he is still sorting through everything and figuring it all out, and to wait until he is ready to talk.  I've given my word that I will not pressure him in the least about it. 

Other things he has opened up to me and talked about.  He is reconnecting with S17, but is still shying away from D18- and I know the reasons.  He knows that aside from me, and he knows I'm willing to open my arms to him and welcome him back- he knows the person he has damaged the most aside from me is D18.  And he is fully aware that she is so much like HIM that he knows he has devasted her and I don't know that he is strong enough yet to start trying to mend it.  She is beyond merciful with him, and respectful, but he knows- he just knows.  I don't know how else to explain it without going into a long description. 

We are in no way out of the woods- at this point I don't even know where we are in this whole thing, and more and more, I'm tossing aside the MLC "map" and treating this as a sin issue.  If I had to assign somewhere for him to be put on the "map"- I would say he has broke through the withdrawal, told me that he has chosen his family and marriage, and is still in struggle to make heads and tails of the whats/whys and hows of the mess he has made.  He has a lot of internal healing and dealing to attend to.  I have healing and dealing of my own.  But I know this; he is coming home on time every night.  He is hugging me, kissing me, being loving and affectionate.  He is doing things around the house that my "real" husband did in order to show his love, but during replay did NONE of it.  Changing all the lightbulbs to lightbulbs I would prefer, taking my car to air up the tires because he noticed they were low, and this past weekend, not only did he COOK (we both like to cook), but he GRILLED.  The first time in well over a year.  He used to love grilling and we would at least once a week- this past weekend, he grilled twice, and then again last night. 

There is still MLC residue I see.  I believe that is to be expected.  But it is residue- not active.  I'm hoping that makes sense... It's little "leftovers" I see.  There are times when I see little flashes of anger, not directed towards me, but he may get mad at S17 or something- honestly, not too different from the "real" H... there are times within this past week that I have seen HIM.  The REAL HIM.  For longer periods at a time.  Saturday night was the first time that my "real" H could be seen clearly.  Lasted most of the night. 

Last night he was more irritable, more stand offish, more self seeking, but in saying all of that, was still mindful to show affection and make sure he was reaching towards me.  I have read that this is normal, and after they break withdrawal, they can fluidly change and flow through various stages- I'm finding that to be true. 

There is of course so much more I could write.  But I'll end it here, as this has become a novel.

[Not Applicable]

I feel like there are times when I see H clearly following my lead in actions and in word.  Is that normal?  It's as if he watches me, and if I do something, then he trusts that it's correct, and does it as well.  I know I'm probably not making sense- and I'm so sleep deprived, that I can't think of an example at the moment, but this is something I've picked up on the past few weeks. 

Thanks for sharing your experiences over the past months. It's very useful to read. BTW, you make total sense in your above comments. I have seen that myself. Like there are things I tell my H and then later he repeats them to someone else as if it is his own idea/opinion that he wants them to follow.

[shopgirl]

GiG,

Yep.  That's what my H has done.  They really do start looking to us in order to learn, don't they?

A few other random thoughts:

I think when H gets angry and spouts off at S17, he becomes frightened and tries to lighten the mood.  That's new too.  During replay he couldn't care less to get mad and blow up at whomever without remorse.

There are so many changes, yet, some things are still the same. 

I see the pressure on him when he is feeling the weight of guilt- (which is most of the time). He is in NO WAY wearing a mask and being "happy"... he is quiet, soft, kind, will smile or chuckle or laugh if it's something that strikes him really funny, but other than that- he is still not back to "normal"...  The weight of his sins are apparent.

 I'm light, bubbly and kind & strong to/for him, being a stanchion... but then there are mornings like today, when he leaves for work, I break down and have a good cry.  SO many emotions.  Happy, sad, and everything in between.  Afterwards I was fine- and able to get on with my day, but boy- I saw that tear fest coming and new I had to hold it off till he left for work! 

 

[Not Applicable]

I can't say your H is exactly like mine but reading your posts I get this feeling that they both are in this sort of "mixed" state at the moment. What is so instructive about what you have written in this thread is it is not a matter of going from replay-depression-withdrawal. It's much more a mixed bag. I also found it interesting that your H was really totally negative about you and then suddenly made a turnaround. I had the same. He was ready to throw me out, to divorce me, and then within weeks and then days he just turned it around completely. No remorse yet, but definitely he is in a different phase with a different set of behaviors.

[shopgirl]

Gone,

Yes, I'm finding that the "stages" are fluid.  At least in my H's case.  He is cooking away nicely at the moment.  Making effort to reconnect with me & our S17.  He is still standoffish with our D18- they were incredibly close, and he knows she knows more of his offenses, and he has hurt her more than our S.  He is very timid around her. 

They are two peas in a pod- similar in so many ways personality-wise.  I see a deep heart to heart coming in the future.  They both want it- it's obvious, but neither one are ready for it yet. 

S17 is readily forgiving, and is so happy to have his dad back.  There is hurt there too- but not as much, and he is willing to overlook a lot of the abandonment and lack of interest over the past two years.  There will be heart to heart talks there too- just knowing my H like I do- but all of that takes time...

As for me, my patience is strong, H has been confiding and confessing things slowly.  As long as I see progress moving forward- no matter at what speed- I'm willing to hang in there and support him through it and wait for my answers.  I do believe I got quite a bit of remorse from him, but from our talks, listening to him ask me to please be patient with him while he tries to figure out why on earth he did the things he did- I can sense the remorse on him is so much more heavy than what he has allowed me to experience this far. 

Here's a few observations from the past 3 weeks:

1. He is still self absorbed, just not as much.  His focus is slowly returning back to me & the kids.

2. I see clearly his issues that he is working through from his teenage years.  He has been openly making comments- things he believes he "missed out on," regrets and such.

3. He is becoming more aware and concerned about doing things around the house, making sure my vehicle is running properly, etc.

4. He wants us to to on a mini-vacation for our 20th wedding anniversary in two weeks- he hasn't wanted to do anything with me in 2 years.  We will see if he follows through.  I'm okay either way. 

5. I see snippets of various aspects of his personality, my OLD H.  The one who budgeted, and was wise and responsible.

6. I have witnessed a whole new side of him- he used to be one who spoke his mind, and didn't think about his words or the tone he used- but now he chooses his words- and if he feels he said something harsh (and honestly, he hasn't said anything lately I have taken offense to), he stops himself, apologizes for the tone it sounded like and changes his tone.  This is all new.  And I'm hoping it's here to stay.  Haha. 

7. He is allowing me to do things for him again- like getting him a cup of coffee, or making his plate for dinner.  These are things during replay that he would be livid if I tried to do.  It's getting back to the way were were pre-mlc. 

8. He wants to spend his weekends with us (family).  He hasn't desired to do anything of the sort for 2 years.

9. He is home every night on time.  And he texts or calls either in the middle of the day, or on his way home, just to touch base- Last night he was late because one of our delivery trucks that was set to go out this morning was having break issues, so he called me to let me know, and came home as soon as he could. *Total 180 from replay- I never heard from him at all.

10. He is sharing his thoughts, his ideas, etc. with me.  Not all of them, but little by little, we are becoming friends again.  He shares with me- I'm not really sharing with him yet.  I did a little the other night, what I thought he could handle.  Nothing about "us", but me personally, my goals personally.

11. He has pretty much gained all his weight back that he lost during his exercise obsession in mlc- and he doesn't seem to mind it.  (I don't either.  I think he looks great- He wasn't big to begin with, and he lost so much, that he started looking too thin). 

There are more- but they've slipped my mind.  Most of these are things that were "normal" prior to mlc.

They aren't back to normal, in any way, shape or form, but they are present, and getting more pronounced. 

He had two days that he slipped back into a withdrawal mode even though he was with us most of the time- I found myself quickly detaching again, and going on with my life. He came out of it a little bit stronger.  Not sure what that was about. 

He purchased the new Lauren Diagle cd- I was surprised.  He sent me a song to listen to this morning while he was driving to work.  All about the grace of God, His forgiveness and how He is still rolling the stone (from the grave).  He reset all of his morning alarms back to the worship music he had them on 2 years ago. 

Bottom line- he's trying to find his way back.  He is desiring to find his way back.  I'm just a step away, observing, supporting when necessary, and letting him be.  Patience has become my best friend- not only does it seem to work in my favor, but it saves me from a lot of unnecessary hurtful words being said.

He is toying with the idea of going to the lake this weekend... if he goes through with it, it will be the first time our boat has hit the water all year.  And last year, he only took us twice, and that's because he was forced to.  We will see.  No expectations- if it happens, great, if not, thats fine too. 

He seems stronger mentally this week. 

[Helpingme!]

All good stuff Shopgirl. Main thing is you are handling this perfectly.
Keep it up. Thing is , stay detached. Enjoy the good, when he calls away, just go on with life. I know easier said than done. But it's easier that way than to go back and forth as H changes back and forth. That is so hard and confusing.

Hang in there Shopgirl.  H seems to be headed in the right direction. Just let him ease along and you lead the pace. He's watching you as much as you are watching him, maybe more. Just stay as you have been, and enjoy all these little moments of good he us showing.

[Acorn]

Sounds good, shopgirl!
According to your description, your H is reconnecting with many aspects of his life.  I think it is a good sign when MLCers are getting better on all fronts, not just one or two areas. 
By the way, I could have written most of those points in the MLCer recovery report for my H!

My guess is that he will stay on the upward projectory as long as the ‘bun’ is not poked with questions and R talks, just as you have been doing.

Shoot, I just read what Helping said!  I’m repeating the message.  Doesn’t hurt to hear it twice, eh?!

[Not Applicable]

Shopgirl and Acorn-I think both of you have similar approaches to this. You trust your Hs enough to let them take the lead to repair things at their own pace. And I think these MLCers need to feel in control of their lives due to their childhood issues. I know one thing that has seemed to start to push my H more forward is that I actually recently allowed my H to have more control at his own request. He actually was being rather silly about it but then he told me for him it was a "life or death" situation. It wasn't in any normal sense, but when he was an abused child maybe it was. In any case, once I handed the baton to him as he wanted, he didn't become more controlling or demanding, he actually became less! I think my just allowing him to feel he had all the power was enough for him and he didn't need to actually exercise the power. It took a leap of faith on my part though. I had to trust he was not going to abuse the power I was giving him and not putting myself in a weak position. But it also helped to restore his trust in me.

When I read stories like yours and Acorn's, I do question the conventional wisdom that reconnecting and reconciling is "hard." I kind of wonder if the people who say that make it hard for themselves. As Helping says, better to not go back and forth with them. Yes, you have to have patience but what I see in your stories is this is the downhill homeward part of the journey. If you go with the flow it will take you there.

[shopgirl]

Shopgirl and Acorn-I think both of you have similar approaches to this. You trust your Hs enough to let them take the lead to repair things at their own pace. And I think these MLCers need to feel in control of their lives due to their childhood issues. I know one thing that has seemed to start to push my H more forward is that I actually recently allowed my H to have more control at his own request. He actually was being rather silly about it but then he told me for him it was a "life or death" situation. It wasn't in any normal sense, but when he was an abused child maybe it was. In any case, once I handed the baton to him as he wanted, he didn't become more controlling or demanding, he actually became less! I think my just allowing him to feel he had all the power was enough for him and he didn't need to actually exercise the power. It took a leap of faith on my part though. I had to trust he was not going to abuse the power I was giving him and not putting myself in a weak position. But it also helped to restore his trust in me.

When I read stories like yours and Acorn's, I do question the conventional wisdom that reconnecting and reconciling is "hard." I kind of wonder if the people who say that make it hard for themselves. As Helping says, better to not go back and forth with them. Yes, you have to have patience but what I see in your stories is this is the downhill homeward part of the journey. If you go with the flow it will take you there.

Gone,

Yes, I believe I told Acorn that the first time I read through her thread.  I agree with you, allowing them to take the lead and feel like the "leader" does help restore their trust in us.  (That is something that truthfully I still don't understand... the lack of trust in US... but oh well).

I do agree with you about the downhill, homeward part.  I'm not pushing him one bit.

I think the thing that is hard for me is not getting spooked or "triggered" by things.  Case & point; this morning I sent him a sweet text.  He responded that he appreciated it, and that he had been "really feeling down inside the last several days"  and that he hoped I had a great day.

Do you know how hard I had to work to not allow myself to go to the dark corners of my mind and my thoughts?  Here I am- bracing myself for a let down, another BD, something, anything that will once again rock my world.  So much for everything I learned about detachment and not carrying someone else backpack... so to speak.  How easily our walls can slip down without us realizing it.

I don't know why but today it just freaked me out.  That one little sentence made me completely forget that last night he was talking to S17, and said he wanted to go hit golf balls, S17 said he was "in" and H said, well, what's your mom doing? S17 told him I was home, and H said, "I don't want your mom to be home alone though"  H had him ask me if I wanted to go.  That hasn't happened in 2 years.  Lots of little things like that.  But the first sign of something negative, and I'm "Negative Nancy"...

That's where I think my struggle with reconnecting is.  I need to work on that. 

[shopgirl]

Shopgirl and Acorn-I think both of you have similar approaches to this. You trust your Hs enough to let them take the lead to repair things at their own pace. And I think these MLCers need to feel in control of their lives due to their childhood issues. I know one thing that has seemed to start to push my H more forward is that I actually recently allowed my H to have more control at his own request. He actually was being rather silly about it but then he told me for him it was a "life or death" situation. It wasn't in any normal sense, but when he was an abused child maybe it was. In any case, once I handed the baton to him as he wanted, he didn't become more controlling or demanding, he actually became less! I think my just allowing him to feel he had all the power was enough for him and he didn't need to actually exercise the power. It took a leap of faith on my part though. I had to trust he was not going to abuse the power I was giving him and not putting myself in a weak position. But it also helped to restore his trust in me.

When I read stories like yours and Acorn's, I do question the conventional wisdom that reconnecting and reconciling is "hard." I kind of wonder if the people who say that make it hard for themselves. As Helping says, better to not go back and forth with them. Yes, you have to have patience but what I see in your stories is this is the downhill homeward part of the journey. If you go with the flow it will take you there.

Gone,

Yes, I believe I told Acorn that the first time I read through her thread.  I agree with you, allowing them to take the lead and feel like the "leader" does help restore their trust in us.  (That is something that truthfully I still don't understand... the lack of trust in US... but oh well).

I do agree with you about the downhill, homeward part.  I'm not pushing him one bit.

I think the thing that is hard for me is not getting spooked or "triggered" by things.  Case & point; this morning I sent him a sweet text.  He responded that he appreciated it, and that he had been "really feeling down inside the last several days"  and that he hoped I had a great day.

Do you know how hard I had to work to not allow myself to go to the dark corners of my mind and my thoughts?  Here I am- bracing myself for a let down, another BD, something, anything that will once again rock my world.  So much for everything I learned about detachment and not carrying someone else backpack... so to speak.  How easily our walls can slip down without us realizing it.

I don't know why but today it just freaked me out.  That one little sentence made me completely forget that last night he was talking to S17, and said he wanted to go hit golf balls, S17 said he was "in" and H said, well, what's your mom doing? S17 told him I was home, and H said, "I don't want your mom to be home alone though"  H had him ask me if I wanted to go.  That hasn't happened in 2 years.  Lots of little things like that.  But the first sign of something negative, and I'm "Negative Nancy"...

That's where I think my struggle with reconnecting is.  I need to work on that. 

[Helpingme!]

Shopgirl
Your doing just fine. Just keep it simple.
You have acknowledged already that you may feel yourself slipping, but you knkw exactly what you need to do.
It's ok to feel Shopgirl. Enjoy it.
Just keep that same smile and easy attitude for days when he is distant.  It's coming.
But that's not a bad thing. It's part of their path that they have to take.
Hang in there. Happy things are still rolling downhill.

[JoJoJo]

Hey SG....thinking of you!  Hoping things are moving along in the right direction.  Did you do anything for your 20th anniversary?  Just curious! 

Just wanted to check in (((HUGS)))

[shopgirl]

Hi Help & JoJo-

Well, time for an update. 

H moved himself back in, (and just to clarify, the only things he took when he "moved out" were 3 pairs of jeans, a couple work shirts, a couple pairs of socks and underwear- everything else he owns is still here, and has never left)- and for a week I got little bits and pieces of confessions from him about things he did during replay- nothing about the OW, he asked me to be patient a little while longer while he tried to figure out why he did what he did, because even he didn't have answers- he said he knew I had been patient more than anyone should ever have to be, but was asking for a little more, so he could deal with all the questions and finding answers.  I told him I wasn't going to pressure him at all, and that I would be patient.  *And I will as long as I see movement forward- even the tiniest bit- I'm okay waiting. 

For a solid week and a half, I saw glimpses of my old H.  He was still worn down, tired, depressed, but I could see he had relief and dare I say- joy.  Internal- not external.  But then I slowly saw him get scared.  And frankly- I think it was because of me. 

It was too easy to slip back in to "wife mode" and be happy to see him, sit next to him on the couch, etc.  All of these things HE initiated, and I ran with.  I don't think he could handle the pressure.  And the guilt.  For the next 3-4 weeks, he went back into his dark place.  Still soft and kind to me, but I literally saw him slip away back into the dark hole of fear, depression, guilt and anxiety.

During this particular time, he bought a sports car... technically the company bought it and paid for it.  One that he said he has "always wanted" (which, I will say, he has always said throughout our marriage that he wanted once the kids were grown), and then said that when "he was a teen, ALL of his friends had sports cars with amazing sound systems and he never thought he would ever be able to have one, and now he can."    But I think I had a front row seat to witness the 17-year old he is trying to work through.  I think the pressure of being home, with the guilt building up- this was a way to relieve it for a moment.  To get his mind preoccupied so he didn't have to sit there and think about everything.   

Our 20th anniversary happened, and he was set on us "celebrating" and going away for the weekend.  We did, and frankly I was NOT ready for that.  He wasn't either.  We had an okay time- but what I'm taking away from it is a few statements he said to me in the car.

1. That he can't stand his dad- drives him nuts, he is so selfish, doesn't care about anyone other than himself, doesn't realize people don't think he is funny, and he just thinks he does no wrong, yada yada, and that he doesn't care to be around him at all- EVER.  (side note- we didn't have anything to do with his dad for 14 years, when H entered into the first of MLC, he "repaired" that relationship and it's been going since then- now- NOPE.)  *also funny enough- since going into MLC, he has turned into his dad in many ways... see above description of his dad... 

2. He said that with the years of debt in order to undergo the huge financial undertaking of the factory, that he not only felt the immense pressure to provide for us, but with the accruing debt, it was affecting the way he saw himself and his self esteem, knowing that he couldn't provide for us the way he wanted to was a huge weight around his neck and blow to his self esteem.  Knowing the debt we had was choking him, and eventually led to him "breaking down"  ***HIS WORDS.

- Now, I just want to clarify, he knows that those expectations were placed upon him by HIM, and no-one else.  Never were they placed on him by me or the kids.  And, I do credit the fact that we are now completely debt free because of our teaming together and tackling it this year, he has had quite a bit of clarity- that's relative of course, it's still MLC we are talking about...

3. He says that he knows we have lived such a good life, and we have so many great memories together, have so much fun & laughs together- and he listed some of them off.  This was in the middle of him telling me that he doesn't know why he isn't "content" in the marriage- but I'll get to that in a bit.  *Him remembering those memories and acknowledging them is significant because while he was having his A, and running hard, he told me he had never been happy, especially the last 3 years in our marriage, and I was pretty much the devil in his eyes, so for him to start seeing our marriage for what it really was is a good thing I think. 

4. He doesn't know why he isn't "content" in our marriage.  That I have been an amazing wife, and that he never could've gotten to where he is without my help, etc... He says that now he knows that it's not that he hasn't forgiven me of the things (stupid things) that he had cited he held a grudge against me for (16, 10 & 6 YEARS AGO)- that those weren't the reasons he wasn't happy with the marriage anymore- can I get a big DUHHHHHHHHH?!?!?

 (ohhhh, the questions I have to ask him about that statement alone- for those that don't know- THAT was the reason HE said he had the A- because he couldn't forgive me from years ago... )  But now doesn't know why he isn't content.

*** From the behavior I witnessed that weekend- I know why he isn't content.  I don't believe he will have another affair again- he is too clear minded about THAT I think- but, I think he is fighting lust.  I think he is having to come to grips with the fact that he isn't 17 like he thought he was the past several years, and that he will have one woman the rest of his life.  I can see the struggle he is in.  I saw it CLEARLY.  And like I said, I think he knows that he knows he will never do the A thing again, but now it's him fighting that, not that he wants an affair, but the emotional high of someone "new".  I don't think he sees that yet as the problem, but him working all of this out on his own, I do think he will see it and recognize it. 

5. He said he doesn't think he was ready to come home yet.  That he wanted to, but that he wasn't ready yet.  *Just for the record- I agree- he wasn't, obviously.... He cried while talking about this. 

6.  I finally felt led to ask him an incredibly personal question- one that as husband and wife, we talked about freely- but since mlc- NO WAY... I asked him where he was in his relationship with Christ.  I told him that I was not "judging" (he accused me of that the entire mlc), but that as his wife, it's my responsibility & honor to keep him accountable.  I asked him IF and WHO he has chosen to surround himself with that is speaking words of truth & wisdom and the Word into his life.  I told him I had a gut feeling that the people he has chosen to surround himself with weren't doing anything of the sort, and that my number one concern for him was his soul.  At first he got defensive- I knew he would- but I did everything in a soft, quiet voice, and reassured him that we have ALL been where he is- running from God, and not having our priorities straight... (I said it more delicately that this).  He finally started crying and said "You're right.  God isn't a priority in my life right now- at all.  I could see him wrestling.  I told him that I knew how he must feel right now.  That I had been in his position, and that what he was feeling was anger towards me for making him feel cornered and "pegging" him, but also sadness and conviction because he knew he wasn't living a Godly life.  He turned to me and asked when I had been in that position.  I told him when one of my college roommates had seen enough of me choosing to walk down a wrong path, and had to intervene and confront me that my priorities weren't rightly lined up with the Word.  He cried and agreed.  The defense came down- a LOT, but not all the way- and I expected that.  But at this point, I had to (and felt the urge) to have this talk. 

After all of that- even him saying "I don't know what will happen with us, but you are the best person I've ever known, and I wouldn't want to have kids with anyone else, raise kids with anyone else because you are the best person I know. I love you, and I love making you happy."

Then he made comments and we talked about our future grandkids and doing things with them... and our family.  We had some good laughs, and he was flirty and playful, but then I saw a little anger too.  He was all over the place.  Personality changes rapidly.  That was interesting...

I see:
- fear
- guilt
- confusion
- remorse
- helplessness
- the desire to be with me and our family, but lacking the strength to do so

Since that weekend, he has gone back to staying at the factory- and has withdrawn from everyone. (me & the kids)  In the last 3 weeks, he has seen our S17 ONCE, and not seen me or D18 at all.  He has texted S17 a little bit, not as much as he has in the past- he has texted D18 once, and texted me a couple times for family business and stuff...  I have talked to him on the phone once for a family business convo.  Other than that- nothing.  He wanted to see S17 yesterday, but he waited too long and S17 had to work.  He seemed disappointed.  He asked S17 what my & D18's plans were for the day.  But never attempted contact with either of us.  (SIDE NOTE: aside from me, he knows he has hurt D18 the most, and so he has really, really distanced himself from her.  S17 is more eager to forgive, and have his dad with him, and has been more "sheltered" from things than D18 has)

I have not reached out I'm hoping that he is doing more processing and gaining in clarity- little by little.  I know this- he was showing clarity when he first texted me the apology and told me that he wanted me, missed me, loved me, etc... I felt the love and the desire he has always felt for me during that week and a half- but I think the guilt was immense and he wasn't strong enough to handle it yet.

The clarity he showed during that weekend I was surprised by.  So hopefully that is continuing. 

The fact is, he wanted to come home, he WANTS to be with us, he just isn't done "cooking" enough to handle it.  So if he needs to be holed up in his office in order to sort through his thoughts and such, so be it. 

So, that's it in a nutshell... I know I'm probably forgetting a few details...

[JoJoJo]

You are an amazing child of God....that is all I have to say to you!  You really "practice what you preach" with such grace and patience!  Lots of love and hugs and prayers for you both!  Really your husband has so much going on internally!  I pray for him to gain insight and reconcile with HIMSELF so he can properly reconcile with you!  Love you girl!  Hang in there!

[Acorn]

Thank you for your detailed update, shopgirl.  I’m glad you are sharing your story with us.  That’s how we learn!

You’ve had that serious talk about his spiritual health.  I’m sure you deemed it the right moment to express your concerns regarding this matter.  If I may, please: I would back off talking about serious stuff for a good while in the future.  You did say, ‘He was all over the place.  Personality changes rapidly.’  I do think he needs TIME, lots of it, and your non-interference to figure out all those thoughts swirling within him. 

Let him be and work out his own salvation.  He will get there with God’s help.  Leave him to God. 

((((((HUGS)))))))

[shopgirl]

Thank you for your detailed update, shopgirl.  I’m glad you are sharing your story with us.  That’s how we learn!

You’ve had that serious talk about his spiritual health.  I’m sure you deemed it the right moment to express your concerns regarding this matter.  If I may, please: I would back off talking about serious stuff for a good while in the future.  You did say, ‘He was all over the place.  Personality changes rapidly.’  I do think he needs TIME, lots of it, and your non-interference to figure out all those thoughts swirling within him. 

Let him be and work out his own salvation.  He will get there with God’s help.  Leave him to God. 

((((((HUGS)))))))

I totally agree, Acorn.  This is not a topic that has been discussed hardly at all in the past few years.  It was one of those moments where I felt a prompting to say something and then a prompting to shut up.  haha. 

That dreaded word- TIME.  And keeping my mouth shut.  I had been doing well until that weekend.  But he initiated the conversation, asking questions, etc., and I let my guard down.  I do think some things settled with him- time will tell if that's the case or not. 

He reached out last night to ask me about D18.  Funny- everything he wanted to know, he should've contacted her about... how she is doing, how her and her boyfriend are doing, how college is going, etc... I think he is too embarrassed and uncomfortable to contact her though. 

But alas, here we are another week- H is cooking away at the factory... boy what I wouldn't give to turn up the oven temperature...

[Acorn]

Shopgirl, I have said lots of things and regretted afterwards.  However, I can also see that some of things I said to him before I installed a good working zip actually did get through to him - let’s say ‘accidental’ benefits.    Let’s not talk about all the bad fallouts from my unzipped lips...  They are far more numerous than the benefits, hands down!

In hindsight, zipping benefitted me, even though I initially shut up to have some positive impact on him and our R.  Maintaining self control over my words gave me peace, objectivity and ultimately, detachment.  When one has nothing to say, that means one didn’t waste any precious brain space and time to think up things to say.   Win-win for LBS. 

[shopgirl]

Acorn,

Ha!  I like the term "accidental benefits"! 

There have been many times in the past couple years where I have had to pray "God, please just cover the words I just said with Your grace"  haha.   

I'm getting better, but man. There are times I nearly have to bite my tongue in order to not say something. 

And- in this season of MLC- I'm overthinking everything. I can drive myself batty worrying if I said something too friendly, not friendly enough- detach, detach, detach!!!!  I keep reminding myself of that. I was definitely more detached when he was running hard in replay.

Now, he came home and I was entirely too eager to break down my walls and move at lightening speed- even though I knew better- I forgot those lessons and ran with my heart, not my head...  Lesson learned on that one too.  I will not be repeating that.  It scared him, he ran, I hurt. 

[Helpingme!]

Shopgirl
It's easier to pull away when we are mad at them. The anger we have during their crazy replay antics make it easy.
Now when they start to change , oh it gets really hard.

Your doing good . Keep it up.

[shopgirl]

Well, I guess it's a good time for an update. 

H tried to come home again a few weeks ago.  He came on a Saturday, stuck to me like glue.  He was the most "normal" I've seen in a while- of course that's relative... there's still residue of MLC all over him- but he really wanted & was happy to be there.  All day, following me around like a puppy, engaging in conversation, acting as if he had never left.  Went to sleep holding me, very sweet & tender.  *Side note: It was the first time H has seen or talked to D18 in a MONTH.   He has withdrawn the most from me & her- but at this point in our journey, he has withdrawn from HER the most.

The next morning- I noticed an immediate shift- I predicted it so I was prepared.  He was "half in"... I could see the pressure mounting.  I got ready for church, told him he was welcome to join me, knowing he wouldn't, and he declined and thanked me for the offer.  He said he "had a few errands to run".  I got back from church, and wasn't home 5 minutes and he pulled in. (My H has always had a keen sense of time.  It's a naturally built in to him sense of how long it will take for whatever event, and how long it should take to get home, etc... so I KNOW he knew when I would be pulling back in).

 I was making dinner for family night, and made sure to busy myself around the house and just let him "be".  D18 got home with her boyfriend, and by that time, H had started pacing.  He would go back into our room, walk down the hallway, go back to the back door, open it, go back into our room, and then walk back to the living room.  No rhyme or reason.

(The house we are living in is a rental & 1/4 the size of our former home, so there isn't really a place for him to go to get away from us)... we sold our home over a year and a half ago, right before I found out about his affair that had been going on for then 9 months... little did I know that selling our home was going to be a huge blessing because of what was in store for me to endure.  We had put it on the market and were going to look for another piece of land to build again, but obviously that is now on hold indefinitely until he is better...

**I did notice a couple days later that our back porch light that had been burned out was now working... I'm thinking he changed the bulb.

Then he abruptly announced he needed to run to the store and asked if I needed anything.  It immediately triggered me, but I was shocked at how easily I dismissed the trigger, and didn't allow it any power over me to impose on my good mood.  *Last Christmas Eve, he jumped off the couch after being glued to his phone, and announced he needed to "run to the store, and wanted to see S17 at work"  2 minutes after he left, S17 came home from work.. long story short, I caught him in a huge lie, blow up ensued, followed by tears- on HIS end, and a sleepless night on my end. So when he did a similar thing this time, immediately I felt the pang in my heart of the trigger.  The difference was, this time, I didn't care. Let him have his space. Let him go.  It doesn't really matter what he is doing- I don't control him, and he will do what he wants anyway. 

He asked if I needed anything from the store, I said no, that D18 and I were getting ready to decorate cupcakes.  He gave me a love smack on the rump, a hug and a kiss on the cheek and said he would only be a few minutes.  About 20 mins later, D18 realized she left her (MY ) nail polish remover at the dorm.  She asked me to call H and ask him to pick some up.  I called him, and he sounded braced to hear me angry with him.  I asked him if it wasn't too much trouble, for him to pick up some nail polish remover.  He sounded confused- as I"m guessing he wasn't expecting a request, but more of a "where the heck are you?" type of convo.  I thanked him, and hung up. 

He came home about 30 minutes later, and when he walked in the door, D18 and I were decorating the cupcakes.  He was just waiting for us to unleash on him. (That has NEVER happened- so it's bizarre that he was expecting it)  he looked like a scared puppy, unsure if he was going to get kicked.  When he realized that all he was met with was smiles and thank you's, he instantly relaxed, and started talking about how he didn't know where the nail polish remover was, and he had to have a store clerk help him, and that there were two types, one with aloe, and one without, and another ingredient that he didn't know if we wanted in our nail polish remover...   We looked at it, and told him what he got was perfect for our needs.  He smiled big, and then sat with us while we decorated, chatted and joked.  After a while, he got up and went to sit on the couch, still paying attention to us and engaging.  Telling us how great the cupcakes were looking.  He actually looked relaxed (again, it's all relative), and after the cupcakes were decorated, we sat down in the living room.  S17 came home, and we had the BEST family night we've had in 3 years.  Laughing, joking, talking, playing music games- everything just like it used to be. My heart was full. I enjoyed every moment of normalcy we were having- storing it up in my heart knowing it wouldn't last.

Went to bed that night with him holding me.

The next morning, we woke up, he was back in his fog. Distant, aloof, not present.  He still hugged and kissed me goodbye, but it was if he wasn't mentally there. Came home that night, pressure, pressure, pressure, and he wasn't even at home... S17 got a new car, and they had to pick it up and do all of that stuff.  He was in a bad mood- not at me or S17, but just in general.  Anything could irritate him. 

The next morning, I get a phone call from him about an hour after he left.  He spewed at me because S17 overslept.  *He wasn't even late for school, still had time to make it, and he DID- but instead of getting on to S17 about not waking up to his alarm, he ripped into me.  I told him it wasn't okay for him to talk to me like that, and that he was completely out of line reacting like that.  He smarted off and got off the phone.  He hadn't monstered at me like that in nearly a year. 

He didn't touch base with me until that Friday, called me on his way to the hunting lodge.  The part of the convo that stands out to me is this:  I had accidentally taken out too much money for something out of our account.  He asked about it- not mad or upset at all- because it truly wasn't a big deal- but when I realized what I had done, (because it was a stupid mistake on my part- I truly don't know where my mind was), I was like "Oh my gosh, I don't know what I was thinking, I'm sorry!"  He replied the softest, kindest, most understanding of voices- and this is where I nearly fell on the floor of the store I was in; "That's okay, it's not a big deal, EVERYONE makes mistakes, it's okay!!!"  He just kept repeating that & reassuring me over and over again.  lol. 

Monday I went down to D18's college to take her out to dinner.  S17 didn't want to go.  H called him, and as usual, asked where I was, what I was doing.  *Every single time- he asks where I am, what I'm doing...  H was confused and concerned as to why I would drive down there so early... H takes S17 out to dinner, and afterwards, fills up S17 car with gas.  S17 says "Thank you dad" and H replies "Well, it's the only thing I'm good for" (money)  S17 replied, "Dad, you know that isn't true." H gave a small smile and told him to be safe driving home, gave him hug and told him he loved him.  I got home and settled in to watch the Wicked special on tv (D18 & my favorite Broadway musical) and H texts me "Are you home? You need to turn the channel to ..."  He wanted to make sure I saw the tv special.  It was the first Broadway musical he and I had ever been to, and it was our most favorite.  I could tell by the convo that he was remembering it.  Wistful.  He asked if D18 was going to be able to see it, I told him she had already made sure she was set up for it.  "just like her mom" he teasingly replied. We texted a little bit more.  I could tell he was going down dark.  Depression.  I knew the week would be hard for him.  I was right.  He fell into a dark pit that week.  (a week ago).  He withdrew from all of us for 4 days. 

This past Monday, he made contact with all of us- including D18's boyfriend- that was a first.  Then he asked me where we were supposed to vote.  I found that interesting, since while he was in heavy replay he would NEVER ask me anything, he would figure it out on his own- now he asks me simple things like that.

The morning of voting day, I got a text from him- he was completely irritated at how our voting station was being ran, and was letting me know how angry he was about it.  Telling me "good luck, that it's a joke because none of the workers know what they're doing and they're sitting around, etc".... the anger is still there- but at least it wasn't directed towards me! haha.  Told me I should wait to go because the lines were really long at the moment.

After that, no contact with anyone for the rest of the week until yesterday when he sent S17 and the boyfriend a text of a pic with the buck he tagged.  He is staying at our lodge for 6 days (he left Wednesday- should be back Monday or Tuesday).   Other than that- nothing.  I'm hoping being in a tree stand in the middle of 1000 acres will be good for him.  Quiet. Peaceful. No interruptions.

As for me, I'm doing well.  Not stellar, but not broken.  I've managed this time around to truly detach and see things before they happen.  It allows me to prepare myself and act accordingly.  I still have moments of course.  But all in all, I FEEL good.  I'm HAPPY. All on my own.  No-one is the source of my joy but God.  And for the first time, I can say that with all certainty.  I was way too dependent on H for my happiness. 

Never again. I walk my own walk.  I carry my own backpack.  I produce my own joy through my relationship with God. It feels good.  Knowing this source of joy comes from within- and no-one can take it from me. The past 3 years have been destructive, exhausting, scary, and downright brutal.  BUT.  When I look back, the lessons learned, the lessons I'm still learning, and the lessons to come- I'm proud of myself. I'm truly, truly content and HAPPY.

Do I want my H to get better and be back home with his family?  YES.  And I have faith that it's on the way to that conclusion.  But, until then, am I happy with MY life?  Am I content with the life I'm creating for myself?  YES, YES, YES. 

I have amazing kids, who while hurt, love their dad so very much and want to see him get better, I have amazing friends & family who have been there every step of the way for me, for our kids and for my H.  They have done nothing but lift him up in prayer, treat him with sincere kindness and love & acceptance.  I cannot ask for more. 

My point?  I am BLESSED. Truly. I'm surrounded by love.  My heart is full.

Sorry for the long post.  I should really update more often so the posts aren't this long.  But I want to make sure I get all the important bits written down. 

[JoJoJo]

I love to read your updates because how you handle yourself and your faith in God and your patience for your husband is inspirational.  I need to learn from how you live and how you handle these tough situations!  Thank you for sharing
Happy Thanksgiving friend! 

[Acorn]

Shopgirl, I can’t believe I missed your update a few days ago! 
You are a calm oasis to your H.  I’m not surprised that he circles back...  Due to his own internal turmoil, he needs to leave again.  I sense that his storm within does not create big waves in your heart becasue you understand that he only can calm the storm.

I have amazing kids, who while hurt, love their dad so very much and want to see him get better, I have amazing friends & family who have been there every step of the way for me, for our kids and for my H.  They have done nothing but lift him up in prayer, treat him with sincere kindness and love & acceptance.  I cannot ask for more. 

My point?  I am BLESSED. Truly. I'm surrounded by love.  My heart is full.

You know what?  Your H is truly blessed to have this.  I hope he opens his eyes one day and embrace the beautiful sight in front of him and that may ease his journey forward.

[shopgirl]

Thank you Jo & Acorn.

Acorn, I hope so too.  I believe he will.  He is fighting.  I remind myself of who he is- his core person.  He is a good man, tender hearted and loyal. 

He went a few days with NC with any of us- this has been a "thing" for a few months now.  The only one he usually contacts even if NC with me & D18, is our S17, but now even his contact with him during these times is ceasing.  He seems to have a pattern of sorts- he will make contact one day, and then 2-3 days nothing.  Then one day make contact, and the next 2-3 days, nothing.  The last month I have sensed a huge shift and darkness within him.  Because I hadn't seen him in a month (D18 same as me, and S17 had gone 3 weeks without seeing him), all of my instincts are based on his contact, words said, or lack of contact. 

This past Sunday, he contacted all three of us in the morning.  He hadn't made contact with any of us in 2 days.  He told D18 that he misses her, loves her very much and would like to hang out with her soon.  All three of these things he said have been completely absent towards her for most of the last two years.  As I've stated before, he has really pushed her away hard.  Not but 10 mins after he contacted her, he text S17.  Asked both of them what their plans were for the day.  Then me.  Asked if he could bring the turkeys over.  I told him I had plans in the afternoon after church, but he could stick them in the fridge and freezer.  He asked when I would be getting home, so it was then I knew he wanted to see everyone. 

When I got home he was there, chatting with D18 and her bf.  He seemed lighter than usual, he was chatty, joking around.  I haven't seen him like this in a while.  The thing I noticed most was he attention towards D18.  Told her about 3 times that she needed to go to the factory and that he would give her some work to do this week since she's home from college.  Joked with her.  Talked with her.  This is new...

When he left, D18, bf, S17 & I talked.  I try to keep it brief with them- not wanting them to dwell on it.  The key points during that visit were this:

1. D18 came home, H was already here, sitting on the couch watching football- he said "Hey sis! How are you?"  She answered, taking off her shoes, and he said "You are so pretty, you look just like your mom."   

2. H talked about eating dinner with his surrogate grandfather and said that his grandfather had said something that really stuck with him- as they were eating dinner, H said that his granddad ate so much slower.  When his granddad brought up how fast H ate- he said "You know, at this point in my life, I've realized that people do everything too fast- always in a hurry.  I prefer to enjoy my food, truly taste it, take the time to DINE, and have conversation with the person I'm eating with.  I want it to be an experience.  Enjoy the company, the food and the conversation."  H said that he wanted to be more like that.  That at this point in his life, he felt like he should be doing more of that, and not always rushing and in a hurry. 

3. H was talking about his latest convo with his sister- she was going on about some conspiracy theory that she is semi-buying into (H and I have heard it ALL with his family) anyway, as he was telling the story, he was saying that he told her that so many people spend so much time researching, trying to prove something and trying to find support for their belief in the Bible, when they are just distracting themselves from what they should be studying biblically- salvation, Jesus, how to become Christ-like and live for God.  This is a first in MLC.  Since MLC, any mention of Christian topics has put him into a near panic attack.  That was pretty much all he said, but it had weight.

4. Before S17 got home from work, he called H- H answered the phone in joking manner that he used to do pre-mlc.  This is also a first.

5. H checked both D18 & my car oil and told us to go get our oil changed.  He also asked if I needed anything for Thanksgiving- he never asked that even pre-mlc! haha.  I thanked him for asking and told him I believe I have everything handled and prepped.   


Yesterday, H contacted me several times, asking me to do him favors- things he wouldn't have asked a year ago.  Register vehicles, renew some tags, send him some pictures to show clients, etc. Then later in the day D18 accidentally called him and hung up after she realized.  H immediately called her back and laughed saying "Did you butt-dial me?"  She said yes, and he asked her if her and her bf had gone hunting that morning, where, what did they see, etc.  He made conversation with her and at the end told her he loved her.  All of this is new.

I have no expectations, my hope isn't being set up- but I am keeping a small awareness of it- wondering if since he knows his relationship with S17 is pretty good, and S17 isn't hating him, and is open to him, if he is now going to try to see how D18 responds to him.  Time will tell.  He made big (relatively speaking, of course) strides with D18 the past few days.

He is coming for Thanksgiving.  Told me he invited his surrogate grandfather.  I'm thankful for that.  I think it will put H more at ease, and not only that, but grandfather was married for 69 years before grandmother died.  They were an amazing example of marriage.  He is wise, speaks truth and wisdom.  I love listening to his stories.

I wish I could have 20 people for Thanksgiving.  I love having my house full, and with mlc, all that stopped.  In the past two months, I've started inviting people over again, and it has been so good on my heart.  I love having people over, and feeding them.  I'm thankful that I have finally arrived in a place that I'm mentally/emotionally ready to do so again.  The past year has been a whirlwind of firsts and lasts.  High school graduations, prom, moving D18 to her dorm, college, going to work full time after 20 years of being a stay at home mom, figuring out what my new life looks like, and how to run it properly.  Juggling everything as a "single" mom.  So many lessons have been learned. 

He's contacted S17 & me already this morning.  Business stuff. 

No-one can say MLC is boring.  It's a lot of things, but not boring.

New things & some little snippets of old-H.  I'm hoping he continues on this path. 

[Helpingme!]

Shopgirl
You sound good. Keep it up. There is never a dull day in MLC. Never!!
Just how we look at it. Your looking at it just the right way.
Let him keep spinning. Your making a soft landing spot for him. That's all you can do.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving week with your kids and family. Hang in there.

[shopgirl]

Thanks Help, I hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving as well!

I wanted to hop on here and jot this down, as it's something that hasn't happened in mlc for us. 

D18 text H asking about the cost of a Christmas present for her bf that H's factory is making.  H text back saying that he would check, and then said "I love you too".... *a flippant remark pointing out that at the end of her (very) short text, she didn't tell him she loved him.  Now, thanks to MLC, the not saying "I love you" is'nt anything new... and of course, in a simple text like the one she sent, the old H would've never responded like that, of course, "I love you" was used constantly in our home... H didn't wait for her to reply and texts "You don't even tell me you love me.  You know you're the best girl in my life and you don't even tell me you love me."

 

He hasn't hardly paid her a lick of attention for two years.  But this week, he is focused on her.  This text was the most daring and forward that he has been with her, and it threw us both off. 

It has me wondering, after my last post of earlier this week, if H is moving towards D18 now, since he has been reconnecting with S17 for a few months, and S17 is open and willing, so now he feels secure to try with D18- he hurt her the most out of the two kids- and for months he has been very "afraid" of her...

H & D18 were thick as thieves, he started taking her out on dates when she was 3 years old, and it continued until 3 years ago (thanks mlc), he wanted to make sure to teach her how a man should treat her, etc.  She was his little girl, and she loved him and adored him.  They had an amazing relationship.  It stayed that way until about 2+ years ago.  (hello replay)

This past week, he has told her he loves her more than he has told her in the past year.  He is paying attention to her- he literally hasn't even cared to ask about her most of the time.  This week has has contacted her and talked to her more than he has in the past 8 months- no exaggeration- he literally ceased nearly ALL communication with her, unless forced to see or talk to her.

I'm not getting my hopes up, keeping expectations at ZERO.  But, I'm wondering if this is the start of reconnection between them. It makes sense on the timing, since H and S17 are "good" for the most part, and have been for several months when H first started- nothing of any weight has been discussed, mentioned, etc., but I think H feels safe that the relationship with S17 is open and all, that he can start to focus on D18...

Time will tell.  Below is a favorite quote about this word we've all come to accept (or trying to)...

"Crazy bird, she was.
Only flew when no one watched.
None could keep her.
All failed to train her.
Funny name she had.
Time."

[Acorn]

You are right to keep your expectations at zero, shopgirl. 
As you wisely said, time will tell if it is just garden variety ebb and flow or it is a genuine progress.
When we talk about TIME, it is measured in chunks of several months, not week, and definitely not in days. 
I’m doing exactly the same.
You are in a good place, shopgirl.
Proud of ya!
Happy Thanksgiving!

[shopgirl]

My H has been in and out of depression and withdrawal for the past 5 months or so.  Tried moving back home twice, but the guilt and pressure has proven too much for him.  He has been reconnecting with S17 quite a bit the past few months.  All of this is within my thread. 

But then last Sunday, something changed.  I came home, knowing he would be there- it had been 3 weeks since any of us had seen or talked to him, with the exception of him texting S17, but even that had dwindled down quite a bit. 

When I walked in, I could tell he was distancing himself from me big time.  He wasn't mean, or rude, but he was not going to give me the soft eyes, kind smiles, and sweet demeanor I had been getting used to for the past 5+ months.  I wondered if it was the pressure of the upcoming holiday.  But then he kept in contact with us nearly every day.  Business stuff, but still.  Even asking me to do family business favors for him. 

THEN.

Thanksgiving.  He arrived 30 minutes late (NOT HIM AT ALL.  He is a "If you're not 10 minutes early, you're late type of guy) he brought his surrogate grandfather.  He looked stone cold at me.  Treated me as if I was an annoyance, and that is the rare times he even acknowledged my existence at all.  He barely talked to anyone- my parents, me, S17.  He talked most with granddad & D18- but even his attention towards her was very little. 

Then he started snapping at me.  Like he did when he was with OW.

I know now how to deal with it, and acted accordingly.  I served dinner.  He didn't want to pray and tried getting S17 to do it.  S17 refused putting it back on him.  He wasn't happy. 

After dinner, before dessert, I excused myself to the bathroom, as soon as I did that, he got up, told his granddad it was time to go, and that he was starting the car. 

D18's boyfriend reminded her of getting pictures.  She asked her dad if he could wait 5 minutes for pics, and he said no.  She was like, "Why?  It's 5 minutes?  He told her he would be back.  She told him that her and her boyfriend were leaving in 20 minutes for his family Thanksgiving, and asked him to just take a couple.  He snapped at her "NO." AND LEFT. 

S17 went outside and asked if he could go with him.  H said "No, you need to stay here."  S17 said "If youre coming back, why can't I go with?"  Besides D18 wants to get pics with you."  H snapped at him and said "NO, you can stay here, and I am NOT taking any pictures."

He left and never returned.  Never said goodbye to anyone.  I came out of the restroom and he was gone.

H text me Friday night.  Said that we needed to talk.  Soon. I asked about what.  He said "things".  I asked him to be more specific, and he refused.  I asked him what time he was available.  He told me the time and I agreed.  Later that evening, I had a sneaking suspicion that OW was involved and had filed divorce.  I don't know HOW I knew, gut instinct, intuition- whatever, so I looked it up on our states court website.  Sure enough, she filed the day before Thanksgiving. 

I text H asking if this "talk" included anything to do with OW.  He said that it has to do with him and me, and that he has told me several times before that "He will ALWAYS be friends with her."  ***That was when I knew they were back in contact.

 This same line was what he always said when he was with her.  I then told him that the convo for the next day was off my calendar and that I do not share my husband and as long as he has contact, relationship with her, I'm not available.  He then got mad, told me that she has nothing to do with "us", and that he wanted to "talk about all of the damage that has been done, and that I cannot keep pushing him off." 

***THIS IS ALSO A 180 FROM WHEN HE MOVED BACK TWO MONTHS AGO AND ASKED ME TO BE PATIENT ABOUT THE OW WHILE HE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT WHY IN THE WORLD HE WOULD'VE DONE WHAT HE DID.****  He had shown a little remorse and shame about it, and was definitely NOT telling me that he was always going to be her friend...

***ALSO, I have never "pushed him off."...

Last night he sent a text "Aren't you tired of everything?  I want to talk soon."

I didn't reply.

This morning he sends another text.  "We need to talk.  This has been put off long enough.  Please don't back me into a corner where I don't have any options." 

I responded; "I'm not tired of everything.  I'm sorry you feel that way.  I will let you know when I am ready."

He text back: "OK" 

Then 5 mins later I got another text "How can you not be?"  (tired of everything)

Then 15 mins later: "Do you have a good pic of the kids together that you can send me?"

Then a few hours later:

"Have you been talking to my sister?"

I told him no.  He made me promise.  I did and he said "OK"

Nothing since.

I need advice.

He will not give up on this talk.  My intuition is telling me this:

1. OW has contacted him again and told him about her divorce & desire to be with him. 

2. He KNOWS it's wrong to have an affair, he has awakened enough to that.

3. He wants to talk about "all the damage" so that he can tell me he doesn't think the marriage can recover from it, and he is done.  That way he can leave the convo and justify in his head that he told me the marriage is over, and he can then have a relationship with her again.

*I also suspect that the sudden desire to talk with D18 after 2 years of ignoring her existence, is because now he has to put on his "Perfect Father" mask for the OW.  When they were together before, she knew he had an incredible relationship with his kids.  She has no clue that he has totally abandoned them for the past 2 years- especially D18.  I think he wants to be able to show her pics and tell her that he keeps in communication with them, yada, yada.  I know that may sound far fetched, but trust me when I say, being in this situation, and seeing the abrupt turn of attitude, heart, and treatment, it is so clear. 

PLEASE.  Any advice on if I should agree to the talk.  What should be said during the talk.  Anything is much appreciated. 

[Thunder]

Oh gosh shopgirl.

No I would NOT agree to talk to him.

I would just tell him you are not ready and will let him know when you are.
Then ignore his requests.  Don't even answer him.

I think his ow has been pushing things and you don't need to get involved with that.

Just put him off, but get some legal advise before you do anything.

I'm so sorry.

[Acorn]

Wow, shopgirl, he is spinning faster than a top.  I’m so sorry to hear that he is in a ‘gotta have a talk’ mood.  His history indicates that he will move on from this phrase soon enough.  Is there any harm in not responding to his request to talk to you about R?  Let him chase his own tail.  He is a mess...  Going dim or NC for a period might be good idea?  Engaging with him would be futile at best.

Even if you wanted to stop all the nonsense here and now and move on with your life without your H, having a R talk with your spinning H is not going to produce much.  It would be his talkfest where he moans ‘poor me’ and spouts all the excuses for messing up his and the family’s life.  A gigantic pity party.   Why would you want to listen all that anyway?

I’m willing to wager that the present ‘gotta talk’ compulsion will evaporate soon enough.

I think it would be wise for you to get all your ducks in a row as far as finances are concerned.  One can’t be too careful with a volatile MLCer.  They seem to think with emotion, not logic, and may make impulsive decisions that could affect your future negatively.   You might want to preempt that by seeking some help from a lawyer. 

So, 2 points.  Don’t engage with him.  See to your finances.

Just my gut feeling, for what it’s worth. 
I hope someone with experience and wisdom can chime in soon. 
((((((HUGS))))))))

[Helpingme!]

I agree Shopgirl.
He can wait. Nothing good would come from any talks right now.
He can get his own picture. Not your job.
Hopefully more will chime in.

[Penelope2018]

Agree with the others. Don't reply to him anymore. Don't have any R talks. It's obvious to you and those of us who have been or are in similar situations that OW came crawling out from her cave. Keep an eye on your money as well because this is the time he may go completely insane trying to keep up two households.

[hopeandfaith]

Hi Shopgirl, I have just read your entire thread and feel like there are a lot of similarities in our stories.  A lot of the clarity you have seen, I have also seen and I am also in the midst of H's return to the fog.  You do sound like you are handling this very well.  It is so impossible to really know what's going on and I have often heard that what looks really bad is often quite good progress.

FWIW, I agree with the others and would avoid the R talks at the moment.  I think it would also be a gift to him because I have a feeling that he would want to change his mind in a fairly short time anyway (regardless of what he is planning to say) and its a lot harder to change your mind about something when it's been verbalised. 

Whenever I feel like I need to communicate something urgently, I can almost guarantee that its my ego talking and its not coming from my higher self.  I would think the same would be true for him.  Good luck with whatever happens!

[shopgirl]

Thank you for your replies, advice & counsel, Thunder, Acorn, Help, Penelope & Hope.

Okay, rough battle plan is to go dim- not much of a change really, since I never text him unless absolutely necessary- and the past several weeks he goes off and on with communication with all of us.

Also, putting R talk off as long as I can.  I'm betting there will come a day that he just shows up and forces it. 

Then I will repeat my script:

I hate that you feel that way.  I don't feel that it's over (or tired of it, or fill in the blank with what is appropriate).

If he wants to stay, he can.  If he wants to leave, it's his choice.

If he continues communication with her, I will not be available to him as a friend.

I'm not backing him in a corner, he has done everything he has desired to do.  I haven't asked him to leave, I haven't asked him to come home.  He has made all of his own choices.

And then I shut up.  Nothing more. 

I called an attorney today. Made me want to throw up.

No word from him today- yet...

He did however reach out to D18 and was pushy for a "date night" with her... she told him the next 3 weeks are packed with school and finals, and she'd let him know in the next few weeks.  He then said, "Well, I can come down there for lunch or something if you're free."(**This from the man who acted as if it was the BIGGEST bother to have to drive there to move her in, and only stayed an hour and half and left us to do the orientation, and rest of the moving...) 

  She said she would let him know.  She has no intentions of going.  She is extremely angry at him.  Both kids are. 

Today really proved it to me that he is only reaching out to her and wanting her to agree to do something because it will look bad to ow if she has nothing to do with him.  He hasn't asked her to do ONE THING in nearly two years.  Now all of a sudden, in a week, he has asked her several times, showered her with compliments and kept in contact... before this past week, it had been a month since he had seen or spoken to her, and before that, it was two months.

I have gotten both of them in counseling, and I'm glad I did.  I just know that I am still licking my wounds and healing, and I could very well not react as well as someone away from the situation. 

She is doing well with it, S17 doesn't understand why he needs to "sit in a room with a man and tell him his feelings"... lol.  But he is being a good sport about it.  He hides anger and pain with laughter. 

I called a family meeting last night- told the kids of the possible scenarios, and then had a "safe space" meeting.  They could say whatever they wanted about him, the ow, the situation, me, whatever and not get in trouble. D18 found it therapeutic.

I'm not enjoying living knowing that at any second he can text me and hound me about talking.  I need to learn how to detach enough that it doesn't affect me. 

Thank you again.  So much.  Any other info you think of is appreciated. 

[JoJoJo]

Woah....so much going on!

Stay strong!  I know you will though, you are amazing! 

I am cheering you on.....and I am here if you need to vent!  (((HUGS))) 

[Acorn]

Shopgirl, I’m relieved to hear that you called an attorney.
As for him buggin you for talks, you could maybe not read his messages?  I’m thinking no reply might be the best way to reduce your anxiety about his constant request.  There is limit to how many times you can say ‘I’m sorry you feel that way’ about exactly the same thing, in my opinion.  You have been more than patient in your replies and stating your reasons briefly.  He heard you the first time but he keeps bringing up the topic.  It’s his problem and his need, not yours. Ignore. Don’t bite.

Having said all that, it is not easy to be unaffected by his constant spinning and pressure.  I understand.  (((((HUGS)))))))

[JoJoJo]

Just checking in on you!   

[Treasur]

See you posted on Acorn's thread.
Hope all is ok, shopgirl. Let us know how you are if it suits you.

[shopgirl]

Thank you for checking on me, Acorn, Jo & Treasur,

I am finally feeling strong enough & healed from what happened Thanksgiving through Christmas Eve to talk about it. 

I will write to catch my thread up this evening.  Just the "lowlights" (HA!) because it would be a novel otherwise.  But looking back, I see the it may have been the BEST thing that could've happened.  I may be shooting myself in the foot with that statement... but I'm willing to take the chance. He has been steadily coming towards me for two months now, has made statements that lead me to believe there's some clarity coming forward.

Right now, he is back staying at his office in a major depression, but last week was a really nice glimpse into his desire to be with me & our family.

I'll write tonight. <3
 

[Whyus]

I'll write tonight. <3

We are looking Forward to it 

[readytofixmyselffirst]

I'll write tonight. <3

You're such a tease! (((Hugs))

Ready

[shopgirl]

Thank you, Why  & Ready,

Well, I'm going to try to keep this short and just facts. 

Here's the recap of the last 7 months:

Aug/Sept- H moves back in for 5 1/2 weeks, is good for the first week, then see the pressure build and build and he becomes a caged tiger. Moves back out, keeps in contact off and on until;

October- Moves back in for 3 nights, last day he was here, something happened and I didn't know what (YET), but all of a sudden he was under immense pressure, and lashing out... he leaves again...  he doesn't hardly contact me, but tries to strong arm D18 into doing things with him- this is completely out of the norm, since he has pretty much ignored her for the past two years. 

Thanksgiving- he comes late, looks as if he wants to kill me, and is so annoyed by me, mocks my food (he's always loved it), and as soon as dinner was finished, before dessert, while I excused myself to go to the restroom, he leaves without saying goodbye to anyone- he yells at the kids on the way out about them wanting to take a pic with him, and he refused and said he was leaving.  He didn't contact anyone until the next night and he text me- said we need to talk NOW... all of that I had written in above post-

*THIS IS WHEN I DECIDED TO DO OPPOSITE OF WHAT I HAVE DONE FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS- I THREW SO MANY BOUNDARIES UP IT MADE HIS HEAD SPIN. HE HAS BEEN IN MLC LAND LONG ENOUGH, AND HAS HAD AN AWAKENING ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER.

So, as the holidays get underway, he is lashing out at me with FURY. 

I get text after text telling me what a horrible person I am, that my "nose gets higher up in the air every year", that all my friends think I'm a snob, and even the way I pronounce my words is "snobby". 

He is throwing Ow in my face, he is picking horrible, horrible fights with the kids, lashing out at the three of us. 

This was the most horrible he has ever been- and I know it was because we decided to tell him that as long as Ow is in the picture, we are not tolerating his lifestyle- that he cannot have both.  He decides to tell the kids every thing that I did wrong in our marriage to try and turn them against me- I of course, knowing that he had threatened to do this, and knew at this point, OW was pressuring him so much to leave me, that he was going to tell the kids things, that he gave me no choice but to tell them myself.

 He was livid when he found out I told them, and that they weren't against me.  We got to the point that we didn't text him back at all.  He would try to bait us, we just ignored.  I went ahead and decided that I had nothing to lose, and that he was very much off the deep end at this point, so I got his business partner (who already knew), and his other best friend involved.  I was to the point after all of the nasty, horrible comments, and after having the ow back for the umpteenth time, that I didn't care what happened, that this needed to come to light. 

The ow's son was very vocal to my D about how much he hated H, and wanted his dad to "kick his a%$, and the he would video tape it"  The ow kicked him out (he's 17 and a senior in high school), because as she stated "If he couldn't be happy that she was finally with someone who made her happy, then he didn't need to be living under her roof" and kicked him out to live with his dad. (she had just divorced her husband to be with H)

Her son was very open to my D (they went to school together years ago) about the happenings that he was seeing and his hatred for both H and his mom. 

I'm getting off track- basically, H finds out that his friends have been notified that ow is back, that her son is telling D18 everything, and basically that his fantasy world has been imploded.  He goes BALLISTIC. I stood firm, refused to engage and ignored.  He threatened, I ignored.  The kids ignored. He wasn't getting a rise out of any of us anymore.

Christmas Eve- he comes over unannounced (he had already informed me earlier in the month that he "wouldn't be here for Christmas"- to which I replied "the kids and I already planned on that." and shut the door) so he comes over with a ham Christmas Eve and tells me we need to talk. 

He then asks why I refuse to talk to him, answer his calls or texts.  I told him that he has made it quite clear to me how he feels about me and there is nothing more he could have to say about me. 

We end up getting into it- D18 comes in and gives him a piece of her mind- about him, his actions, his ow, his lifestyle- he gets in her face and they are shouting at each other, I get in between them and tell him to leave- it gets all Jerry Springer- then S17 comes home, H thinks he will be on his side, S17 tells his dad exactly what he thinks, and says he is not interested in having any part of the way his dad has been living, that this has gone on long enough and he and D18 are done.  That H made the decision to pick ow over them, and so now H needs to respect S & D's wishes to leave them alone because they are tired of his antics. 

He threatens to serve me at the first of the year.  I told him he is free to do whatever he wants.

He leaves, calls S17 and is yelling at him, then says "I'm just trying to divorce your mom!"  To which I yelled back, "You didn't ask my permission to have an affair, you definitely don't need my permission for a divorce, therefore you don't TRY to divorce, you just DO." 

I CALLED HIS BLUFF. I KNEW HE DIDN'T WANT TO DIVORCE ME, I KNEW SHE WAS PRESSURING AND GUILTING HIM SO HARD, SO I JUST STOOD MY GROUND AND TOLD HIM HE DIDN'T NEED ME TO AGREE TO ANYTHING, PLACING THE BALL BACK IN HIS COURT.

He text all of the us the next morning, apologized, then sent me another nice text that I ignored...

He was quiet for another week, not contacting any of us at all.  Then the week of New Years comes. He timidly reaches out.

 For the past two months he has consistently been moving closer to me and the kids.  He has been having me help with our company again, a LOT- (something that was taken away from me when ow came into the picture)

He has told me things that are proving that he is having some clarity.  (One of the statements he has made a couple times is that he knows at this point he doesn't realize the depth of destruction he has caused to our family the past two years, that I have been so strong, and he has been very weak, that he is so thankful to have me in his life, etc) 

He has been doing well, usually will stay in contact 4 days, then disappear 4 days, then back 4 days, but the past 2+ weeks it has been every day, multiple times.  We will talk about 2 1/2 hours a night.  Then, an anonymous person sent both of us a DVD of Beth Moore teaching about love and rejection.  H said he liked it so much he wants to watch it again.  Then for the first time in over two years, he told me that he had watched our church service online, and that he really liked the message.

He asked me out on a date last Tuesday.  We went and had fun, he ended up coming home and staying until this past Sunday when the depression sucked him in again.  In the week that he stayed with us, he was definitely more peaceful, and comfortable.  There wasn't pressure, and uncomfortableness until Saturday night.  Sunday night, S17 and I brought him dinner and I saw the depression so thick on him. 

When I asked if there was anything I could do to help him, he replied "Yes, tell me what a worthless piece of crap I am."  Instead I asked to pray with him.  We did and he cried and held me.  I see more and more where his heart is trying to turn back to God.

We talked Monday, but I could tell he was not in a good place, sounding like Eyeore.  I didn't hear from him again until today, only to discuss S17, I don't think I would've heard from him had we not needed to talk about a few things.   He isn't contacting any of us this week, which is fine.  But the past two months, he has shown a desire more and more to be with us. 

There's so much that has happened, was said and experienced in the past two months.  The events that happened 5 months ago were horrific, and pure torture.  But the past two months he has been steadily moving forward.

I never seem to describe events on here well, so I'm hoping this wasn't all over the place.

[Unraveled]

Wow, I have read your story, but never commented.  I must say this, best line ever:

"You didn't ask my permission to have an affair, you definitely don't need my permission for a divorce, therefore you don't TRY to divorce, you just DO." 

Not sure if you have read HB's articles, and I think RCR says the same thing, about how the beginning and end of the tunnel are the most chaotic and they are all over the place.  Also HB's article on first awakening would seem to be a really good one for this situation.

My H did some cray cray stuff when I stopped taking the bait and his divorce was chugging along.  Mine is still with the OW, but it looks like yours is going through some serious withdrawal.

How awesome for you that you can stand firm, not take the bait, and not take it personally.  Kudos to your kids too.

[Treasur]

Oh my goodness, torture indeed. It must have been horrific and exhausting for all of you. And your kids were incredibly strong.
Tbh it sounds a bit like people I know in RL who have an addict in the family...but understanding it surely did not make it one jot less painful at the time.

I hope that the recent calmer waters continue and that your h takes more and more baby steps towards recognising and tidying the mess he made.

[UrsaMajor]

Holy "Road to Damascus moment" Batman!

What a (pardon the pun) roller coaster ride..... But it looks like (from over here in the cheap seats) that the light has appeared at the end of the tunnel and it is NOT an oncoming train!

I am REALLY impressed with your S17 and D18... MAJOR props to them for standing their own ground and stating their truth.....

[Whyus]

Well that was an interesting read and worth the wait to say the least. Your Kids are awesome, also OWs S is amazing. I feel for him too, hes just as much a "victim" as your Kids are in this mess.
I wish that my Boys had as much back bone as your Kids  , maybe I should send them a copy of your post (I wont) so they could see just how this all CAN pan out if everybody holds their ground.

You know the drill, stay cool, breath and dont let your guard down. Its time for your H to step up and you just carry on being you. Yoou must be so proud of your Kids (im really a Little jealous here and even more disappointed in my own Kids  )

[shopgirl]

Thank you Unraveled, Treasur, Ursa & Why,

Firstly, thank you for your feedback and comments.  I was a little nervous that it would be frowned upon, but it was a gut instinct that knew it was the right time to open the curtains that hid my H's sin, and let people in to see it so that it was no longer a "fantasy" and "escape from reality" for him. 

Thank you for your comments about my kids.  I'm so proud of their strength and courage to stand up to their dad.  Just as powerful as they stood up to him, they have shown grace & mercy the past two months that he has been trying to come around.  They are remarkable humans & as a mom, I couldn't be more proud.

He has made contact with me yesterday & today, nothing but family business, but all things he could've done without contacting me about.  Hoping his withdraw from us again is short lived.

One semi-big thing- his grandma died this morning.  He called me to tell me, and when I asked if he was able to talk with her yesterday like he said he was going to do (she lives in another state), he said he never got to talk with her, that he had tried calling once, and couldn't get ahold of anyone, and then he never tried again because "work was crazy".

 I could tell he was bothered by it.  He said "Lesson learned.  I wish I would've gotten to talk with her, I should've called again."  I'm hoping that is the start of him learning that work isn't and never should be his top priority.  He moved it to that position about 3 years ago, and it has consumed him ever since.

Ursa, I sure hope you're right & that light is visible!  I don't even care if it's teeny tiny, as long as it's there!

Why, I agree.  She has two kids, who have endured major damage because while my H hid this from our kids, she used hers as pawns to draw him in- they have had a front row seat to all of this dysfunction.  The information her son provided my daughter with was unbelievable.

Treasur, yes, I totally agree, and that is how I've started viewing this mess.  It is an addiction, and they can't handle their impulses, then comes self loathing, depression, etc. At least that's what I have witnessed.

Unraveled, I still can't believe I said it! haha!  Our family has never been "yellers" or "fighters", so Oct-Dec was like a free for all- I believe I'm still recovering from it all. 

Thanks again for reading my thread, and being so encouraging.

[JoJoJo]

Oh I have wondered and worried about you!  I almost texted a few times but thought maybe you needed space from all this MLC bullish!t...it’s exhausting!  Well you are doing amazing considering the circumstances.  Hope your H can get past all his self destructive shame and get back to being the person you know and love!  Not just for you and the kids but for himself....he’s strayed so far from who he is at his core but soon enough with Gods Grace I hope he sees he can be that person again.  Just know you are amazing and stronger than you probably ever imagined!  (((Hugs))))

[shopgirl]

Oh I have wondered and worried about you!  I almost texted a few times but thought maybe you needed space from all this MLC bullish!t...it’s exhausting!  Well you are doing amazing considering the circumstances.  Hope your H can get past all his self destructive shame and get back to being the person you know and love!  Not just for you and the kids but for himself....he’s strayed so far from who he is at his core but soon enough with Gods Grace I hope he sees he can be that person again.  Just know you are amazing and stronger than you probably ever imagined!  (((Hugs))))

Hi friend!  I need to text you with my new number... I've been wanting to talk with you, but well, you know how it is.  I did need to step away for a while.  Oct-Dec was worse than ever. It was like his last-ditch effort to rebel.  One last shot at making me call it quits, so that he could be the "good guy" and I would be the one who left, even though, I know it's not what he wants/wanted. It amazes me how manipulative and controlling the ow's are. But ultimately, it works in our favor.

He is now very "into" S17's grades in school.  Checking parent portal daily, calling and texting me to discuss what we need to do, and literally being a "parent" about it.  The interesting thing is, prior to MLC, he NOEVER checked parent portal, he would've had a temper about such poor grades, but now, he asks "what is going on that you are performing so low?" and he is ASKING questions, and truly trying to understand... this is NOT my OLD H. 

Old H would reprimand, yell, and talk AT him.  Now, he sits at the table, or on the phone with him, asking him questions and LISTENING. This has been going on off & on for 4 or 5 months- it stopped being an interest for the two months that he went back to ow, but he has picked it up with gusto the past two months. 

He even asks me what else "we" need to do and what my thoughts are...

Still not reaching out to D18- although, while he was back last week, he really, truly tried with her, he misses her, and it's clearly seen.  But he is still afraid of her.  He knows he has done SO MUCH damage to their relationship. 

He asked if I would go on vacation with him, just the two of us.  I of course said yes, but now that he is depressed again, I think that is on hold, and that's fine by me.  I see the pressure when he is around me and S17 not being so heavy, he is feeling more and more safe with the two of us, but D18 still scares him.  And D18's boyfriend... that a whole other story.  I see the guilt and shame and awkwardness when H is present with all of us.  He knows the boyfriend knows things and it has to be so humbling and embarrassing for H.  The boyfriend has been in our lives for 5 years, has always loved and admired H, I don't know if I'm successful at explaining it, but I see it clearly.

*EDIT- I forgot to mention that the drinking (which was scary heavy during his hard running, and up until end of December), has completely ceased.  He isn't drinking anymore.  He confided this to me about a month ago, and is sticking with it.  I'm very proud of him for kicking this replay behavior.  Of course, when he told me, I told him that that was good to hear, and I downplayed my true happiness about it. Kept it low key, but was positive in my response.

[JoJoJo]

You got this SG!  You do!  I know there are times you will second guess how you can make it to see it all through but you can and you will!  Love and healing to you and your whole crew!  This MLC crap messes with everyone connected!  So damaging but like they say what doesn’t kill us, makes us stronger!  Sayings I have heard in the past and have rolled my eyes 👀 about, are things now I nod my head and understand!  ❤️

[shopgirl]

Thanks Jo. 

Last week was a doozy for me.  I was physically & emotionally drained.  Stretching myself too thin, and saying "yes" more often than I should.  Putting some personal boundaries back up on my time, not sure why I ever let them come down in the first place... 

H left Sunday for grandmothers funeral.  He came over Saturday night to get a suit and such.  He was quiet, sad, and I could sense the guilt.  The same guilt that drove him to leave home again.  As soon as he left, he called me twice to thank me for helping him get it all together. 

Not a peep out of him yesterday, but this morning a text letting me know that his cousin died this morning.  He was short in his texting responses, so I knew to say what I needed to say, and be done.

I'm curious to see what sort of impact this has on him.

[PJ Ames]

Following along Shopgirl. Sorry I'm late (as usual).

Good news about your H ceasing to drink. And you sound good. Hope you get some rest and calm waters.

[UrsaMajor]

HiSG,

So, H was at his grandmother's funeral and while he was there, his cousin died? 

Serious 1-2 mortality punch in the face....

This could go either way for him.... Good for you for keeping your messages short, to the point, and limited rather than overloading him... I really hope that, for HIS sake, he picks the correct path AWAY from the tunnel/booze/etc. and looks back towards the lighthouse rather than the stormy sea...

[shopgirl]

I'm glad to have you along for the ride, and thank you, PJ.

I was so encouraged to hear from him about the drinking.  He has always been one to have ONE beer, or a glass of wine with dinner, or while BBQ'ing, but throughout MLC, it was glasses of whiskey, multiple beers- EVERYDAY for the past 2+ years. So for him to be completely dry for nearly 2 months- that is an accomplishment, and I'm proud of the strength that has taken him to give it up.

UM,

Yes, it's unfortunate timing, but may work out in his favor, as his grandma lives in Wisconsin, and his cousin in Iowa, so he can easily drive and be at both funerals. 

He wasn't close to his cousin, but years ago, he did give his cousin a Bible study, and talk with him about God.  But he dropped it, and never picked it back up with him... I'm pretty sure if anything, THAT will have an affect on him, that he didn't do all he could to lead his cousin to Christ. (My H led Bible studies for anyone and everyone who wanted to learn & was interested, he baptized people, and was always trying to minister to others)

It may not, I've just been covering him in prayer, and taking care of my everyday life.  Goodness knows that keeps me plenty busy.

His cousin has battled a disease his entire life, and wasn't supposed to live past the age of 16, but thanks to modern medicine & a whole slew of surgeries, he lived to be 47.  We knew it was a real possibility it could happen like this, H got a call about his grandma & cousin not making it till last weekend on the same day last week.  He was planning on going to see his cousin in the hospital after his grandmas funeral, if he made it that long.  Now it looks as if he will be going to the funeral. 

I'm in agreement with you, UM, I hope he moves forward, and this doesn't cause him to run backwards.  Time will tell.

Thank you all for your words of encouragement & wisdom. 

[KeepItTogether]

Shopgirl--it is great that H isn't drinking.  That particular vice tends to cause even more bad decision making....in addition to MLC.

So sad about the kids.Sounds like OW's S is pretty mature. Or has just seen way too much. My H's OW has a young D--about 6 when they first started "dating" which was really more booty calls. At her house. With the young D and 13 year old S there. So gross. I often think about what those kids think of my H.  But, also thankful to not know.

I hope your H continues along this healing line. MLC is really no joke. And after the dust has settled, and we get past our hurt, we do remember that underneath that horrid wretched MLCer, is the person we have loved for a very long time.

[JoJoJo]

I hope your H continues along this healing line. MLC is really no joke. And after the dust has settled, and we get past our hurt, we do remember that underneath that horrid wretched MLCer, is the person we have loved for a very long time.

KIT-   This is such a nice thing to hear!  I try to remind myself of this as I look at my H.  I still have these moments of feeling angry....and I have to remember that the MLC H was NOT the real H!  The reason I didn't believe about the affair is because it really made NO SENSE for the H I knew and loved to do any of these horrible MLC things.  It was so out of character from the man I married. 

ShopGirl....you have such a forgiving heart!  I love your faith and how you have extended love and grace to your H and continue to pray for him!

[shopgirl]

Hi KIT & Jo,

Kit, agreed- its definitely a part of his MLC I won't miss.  (like I'll miss any of this mess...) 

I hope your H continues along this healing line. MLC is really no joke. And after the dust has settled, and we get past our hurt, we do remember that underneath that horrid wretched MLCer, is the person we have loved for a very long time.

Thank you, Kit, I'm so looking forward to this.

The ow's S has seen SO MUCH.  He and his sister have been through all sorts of drama, men & dysfunction because of their moms choices.  I think I may have even stated in one of my posts that the ow kicked him out of their home because he hates my H, and "wasn't happy for her"... He's a senior in high school.  He is a pathological liar as well, and is always in trouble- shocker-

He now lives with his stepdad (never knew his real dad- shocker)... Her (ow's) story is so horribly messed up- daddy issues, self esteem issues, self worth issues- gets attention any way she can-

she has always cheated on whoever she is with, in school & after- then during her second marriage to the same guy she accused of "physically & mentally abusive", my H was her AT LEAST 4th affair that we know of.

She is bi-polar, psycho, hypochondriac, pathological liar, always the victim, always in the middle of drama, and she sings her pathetic little song for whomever is willing to listen.  You know, your average ow.

Unfortunately, she used her children as "bait" to lure my H in, so they had a front row seat to the complete ridiculous, teenage style dysfunctional "relationship", and more than that, she was VERY in their face with it, so they saw even more than "usual"... she would throw them at my H, giving him the victim song and dance about how "they don't have a dad, and really need a Godly man to step in and mentor them"... THEY HAVE A DAD... A GOOD ONE.

Ironically enough, she files for divorce, thinking that will make my H leave me- her divorce is final within a month.  By that time, my H and her were over because he wouldn't leave me, and a month or two later, her now ex-H is in a relationship with a much better girl... and she is the one standing alone.  Funny how things work out.

So, I took the long way around the barn to say, yes, her S has seen entirely too much dysfunction and poor choices. 

Writing all of the above makes me feel sick.  All of it is true, but I hate that someone is that broken of a human, and lacks the knowledge to start fixing themselves- instead they blame everyone else, and grasp anything/one they can.

I don't say any of this spitefully- I really do feel compassion on broken people. It doesn't excuse their behavior, but to live your life with such self loathing and disdain.  They live unsettled in their hearts, and never feel/live up to being worthy of anything true and pure.  They take scraps because that is all they think they are worth. Sure, they want more, but don't have the tools to know how to attract & keep anything like that.  How miserable & empty of a life to live.

Thank you Jo.  It's a process I have to be mindful and intentional of daily. 

[Helpingme!]

All good stuff Shopgirl. Good he quit the drinking. That will help him think a little MORE clearly!!
Hang in there Shopgirl. You sound good.

[PJ Ames]

I don't say any of this spitefully- I really do feel compassion on broken people. It doesn't excuse their behavior, but to live your life with such self loathing and disdain. They live unsettled in their hearts, and never feel/live up to being worthy of anything true and pure.  They take scraps because that is all they think they are worth. Sure, they want more, but don't have the tools to know how to attract & keep anything like that. How miserable & empty of a life to live.

Beautifully written Shopgirl. It's wonderful that you have compassion on the OW's son like you do. Stay gold Ponyboy.

[shopgirl]

Thank you Help & PJ,

I wanted to pop on here and give an update.

Things have been REALLY quiet.

H had gone up north for his grandmas funeral, and while he was there, his cousin died.  The only contact that week was him texting me the news of his cousin. 

That Saturday comes around, (last Saturday), and on my way home from dropping D19 & her bf off at the airport, H calls- I don't answer it, then he texts:

"Hey I tried calling. I just wanted to talk about a few things. I wanted to know how D19 root canal went and also when she was leaving to go to California."

I call him back a little bit after, and he is trying to be "happy"- not overly, but like a normal "good mood"... he says he is on his way to take his 80-year old surrogate grandmother out to dinner for her birthday.  (There's the reason for the fake good mood- he wears a mask for her)

Then he asks those questions... I tell him that D19's root canal went well, and that I had just dropped her off at the airport.

 He responded, "Oh, I was wanting to give her a couple hundred dollars for the trip, I thought she could use it." 

Then he asked about S18's grades and such (he is obsessed with them- or was), I said that they were good. 

I told him that S18 spring break was over, and he would be back to school on Monday. 

He was like "Are you serious?! If I would've known that, I would've taken him with me!"  (He DID know it.  Whether or not he forgot, or didn't want to is still in question), I didn't say anything other than "Oh, well, he just spent it with me, it was fine." 

Then I ask "Did you just get back in town?" (from the funeral)- and he got a little hesitant and said, "No, I got back Thursday night."

That sucker punched me.  I know it shouldn't have.  But he went all week (4 days) with no contact to anyone, and then the only reason for the phone call was to get info on the kids, so when surrogate grandma asked, he could look like he was involved in his children lives.

He got off the phone quickly after that, I think he knew that was rotten of him, even though I didn't react- and we (me & the kids) haven't heard from him since. (we are on day 5). 

This withdrawing from us is such a stark contrast to the past two months of him being in constant contact and coming home. 

I'd love to hear thoughts on why in 10 days, he has been in contact once.  So weird.

[Helpingme!]

Boy if we cd read the mind of a MLCer. Probably been on a 10 day mind confusion and guilt trip.
One thing for sure it isn't your fault he missed spring break. That's all on him.

[UrsaMajor]

I'd love to hear thoughts on why in 10 days, he has been in contact once.  So weird.

Hey Shopgirl,

You know, I'd really like to know what Green tastes like too...

[Treasur]

With the normal 'who knows' MLC caveat...I susoect the answer is in your own tag line about him withdrawing when things overwhelm him....a couple of deaths, exposure to family, the need to wear a mask, all things that increase his internal sense of pressure so he shuts down and withdraws. Which seems to be an old pattern you've seen?

[shopgirl]

Help,

For sure.  And just to be fair- he definitely wasn't blaming, it was more of, "Oh man, if I would've known..."  *but he did know. lol.  I just think his mlc brain forgot.

Ursa,

HA!  I know, I know- as I was writing the question, I was thinking to myself "This is a pointless thought to have!" 

Thundr,

You're right- it is a pattern- it just hasn't happened for a little while- I would say it's a mix of guilt, confusion on why he has done what he has done & depression.   But lets be honest, I haven't a clue.

Meanwhile, I'm taking the kids away for the weekend- just the three of us.  D19 got Michael Buble tickets, so we are going to go to his concert on Friday, and S18 will chill at the hotel, then we just plan on piddling around the city the next day before coming home.  I"m looking forward to it, it will be our first "family" getaway since all this nonsense started!

[PJ Ames]

Enjoy the family getaway Shopgirl. It's good that you're living your life.

[Treasur]

How are things with you, shopgirl?

[shopgirl]

It’s been over two years I believe since I’ve been on the forum.  Here is the link to my other thread - not sure if it should be merged?  Also, thinking this could be considered “rebuilding”… 

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10095.msg716469#msg716469

I wanted to give an update.  I feel as if I owe everyone who helped me throughout my H’s MLC to know how my story ends, and I also wanted to share for the ones who have found themselves here recently and are scared out of their minds - when I was first thrust into this nightmare, I searched for “ending” stories that would give me some sort of hope, clarity, anything to hold on to while I was in the beginning of my storm. 

 Shortly after my last post, in the beginning of the summer of 2019, yet another BD came.  Rocked my world to the core - just when I thought he couldn’t surprise me in any other way, he did.  That was the beginning of the end for me.  I no longer was standing.  I was making the decision to just live my life and not allow him to affect my world.  As far as I was concerned, he could divorce me -I didn’t care.  I wasn’t going to file, he could do that, but I sure as heck wasn’t wanting him back.  I was done.

 Fast forward 4 months and he showed signs of “waking up”.  He broke it off with ow for good.  He started trying to mend relationships with the kids.  He tried mending our relationship.  Like I mentioned - I wasn’t interested.  He tried coming back, I didn’t allow it.  He tried begging for me to take him back - By January of 2020, he was starting to truly see things he had done - but he was FAR from having total clarity.  I wasn’t interested.  I still treated him kindly, but only as kind and familiar as I would treat a neighbor. 

He would regress in ways - one day showing maturity, clarity, remorse - the next day, he was like a petulant 4-year old.  Bratty, throwing fits because I wasn’t interested in taking him back, and the next day, back to more clarity & growth.  And even though I was doing my best to not allow him to interfere in my daily life, it was exhausting.  In May of 2020, he threw a HUGE tantrum.  Epic.  The result was forcing me to go and file for divorce.  (I say “force” but what I mean is, he said if I didn’t, he would, and my lawyer had told me under no circumstances to allow him to file - that we wanted it filed in our county). The next day, we met at the attorneys office and I filed.  We had a huge blow up in the parking lot. 

It wasn’t a day or so after that, he made it known he regretted forcing me to file.  Begged me not to divorce him.  Deep down, I didn’t want to, but I wasn’t going to tell him that - he still had a long way to go before he was totally himself again.  By September 2020, he was more himself than I had seen in years.  If I had to give a percentage, I’d say 85% back to normal.  He asked if I would be open to going to one counseling session with him, and if I didn’t want to go back, he wouldn’t ask me again, and would leave me alone.  That one session has turned into now 10 months of counseling every week.  He is 100% back to himself.  The man I fell in love with - only better.  He is softer, more intentional, slower to anger, patient, humble, among other things. 

Two months ago, I made the decision to take him back and to live together once again.

Our relationship is deeper.  Our connection is stronger.  He has been so compassionate, patient and remorseful when I have bad days and sorting through hurts and emotions.  We are now going to counseling once a month (since we moved back in together), and it’s going well. 

I still have times where I break down.  Where hurt suddenly washes over me without warning.  Triggers.  Oh triggers - some I knew I would have, others I’ve been shocked to see exist.  He has been so great.  Reassuring, stopping whatever he’s doing to hold me and let me cry.  Answers all my questions without attitude or defensiveness.  Cries with me and apologizes again and again - even though I’ve told him not to.  I don’t need the apologies anymore - I know he’s sorry.  I know he regrets it to his core.  I know exactly what he thinks of the ow and it makes him sick.   

More and more the questions are dying down.  Sometimes one will pop into my head - and I can easily shoo it away because I really don’t care anymore - I don’t need to know and don’t really care. 

He has put in the effort and hard work and mended his relationship with our kids (D-21 & S-20.  They were 16 & 17 at first BD)  I’m shocked at the progress.  I’m so thankful. 

We will be in counseling for at least another year - at his request, to make sure all the residue from the past several years is put to bed and won’t come back to haunt us in the future.  He has handled our healing with compassion, patience and allowing us to go at our own pace, even though it sometimes hurts him.  He has put us first.  That has allowed us to feel safe to heal, and in turn I believe sped up the healing.  Through almost a year of intense counseling, we’ve learned so many tools to help in our healing as individuals, as a family, and to help in healing our marriage. 

I’m not 100% healed yet, but on my way - as is our marriage.  All in all, it’s been 5 long years of hell.  I never thought I’d say this, but I’m grateful for the lessons I’ve learned.  For the growth I’ve experienced. 

Also - when he finally broke down and spilled everything - what he had done, went through, thoughts that were in his head - it’s amazing at how they all follow the same script.  There’s no way he knew what he “should” say - but almost word for word, described his experience exactly as you’ve read here what the wayward spouse goes through/thinks/does. 

As I sit here and write this, I’m shocked at the outcome.  I didn’t think I would be here.  I really thought it was finished.  What a difference two years can make.  I’m thankful we are where we are.  It’s quiet, peaceful and we are both happy to be together again. 

This forum was a lifesaver for me.  I will forever be grateful to it and the amazing, generous people who are always willing to write a kind word and offer help.  I don’t know what I would’ve done without either of those.  So thank you.  Thank you. Thank you.   

[Treasur]

Thank you for coming back to share, shopgirl. And i’m happy that you and your spouse have found a calm good place after, as you say, five years of hell.

I’m sure that others might have some questions for you about how the process of reconnection worked, ups and downs. But what strikes me in what you wrote is a couple of things worth highlighting for newbies who might so hope that your story ends up being their story...

That you had detached to the point of saying ‘enough, no more’ and meant it.
That there were several months between your h saying he wanted back in and you actually seeing someone closer to a version of himself.
That he drove the counselling option, that he asked and you obviously decided to give him that small chance to put his reconnecting money where his mouth was. Rather than you driving the show with a long to do list that he had to follow? That you focused on actions more than words. And that you did not jump quickly into allowing him to move back home just bc he said he wanted to. Sounds like it was after several months of MC?
That both of you worked hard in MC and are continuing to do so.
And that you recognise that you are still healing in yourself.

[UrsaMajor]

Hi Shopgirl!

LONG time no read. I am glad to red that things are working out for you now! I have also merged your previous Thread so people have a bit of the background

I'll pose the question about changing the icon to pink/purple... (reconnecting/rebuilding)  although it definitely reads like the latter...

[xyzcf]

Thank you Shopgirl for coming back and sharing your story. You both have had to do a lot of difficult work. This has resulted in a family being reconciled so thank you for sharing that it is possible.

Also - when he finally broke down and spilled everything - what he had done, went through, thoughts that were in his head - it’s amazing at how they all follow the same script.  There’s no way he knew what he “should” say - but almost word for word, described his experience exactly as you’ve read here what the wayward spouse goes through/thinks/does. 

MLC is real and the similarities are uncanny thank you for describing this so well.

Let us know how you are doing in the future

[shopgirl]

Treasur,

I would be happy to answer any question I can for anyone who asks.  To your points below -

1. Yes, I had finally completely detached.  It took me a very long time to do so - even though many times along the way, I thought I had.  Truth was, I hadn’t.  When I finally did, it was as if a ton of weight was lifted off my shoulders and I could breathe.  I wasn’t worrying about him at all - in fact, unless he was coming around to bother me, I wasn’t thinking much about him at all.  It was peaceful and for the first time since all of it started, I started really living.  I started making future plans that didn’t include him.  I started to feel like a normal person again.

2.  Oh yes.  He started trying to come back in late 2019.  I didn’t entertain the thought, or let him know I was entertaining the thought until the beginning of this year.  I knew he had a lot of work to do.  I knew I had a lot of healing to do (now that the major inflicting of pain was over), and I found it best to do so on my own.  At that point, he still couldn’t handle the level of pain he had caused me and the kids.  It wasn’t until we started counseling (Sept of 2020) that I really started seeing him gain emotional strength and saw he could handle shouldering our pain and hurt.  Also - his pain and hurt (self inflicted, but very, very deep) was too much for me to handle on top of my own and the kids.  I knew it was best for us to heal on our own at that point.  When the time came that I saw he was desiring to help me and the kids heal and wanted to know the depths of our pain (he told me that he needed to hear it.  He needed to understand all the damage he had done, because it was helpful to him to gain even more clarity about the destruction and hurt he had caused).  It was then that I slowly and cautiously started opening up to him.  The kids followed my example. 

*Also, I think it’s important to note that almost a year ago, he wrote letters to everyone in our family & friends apologizing for his behavior, taking all blame of what he had done and thanked them for stepping in to help and support us when he stepped out.  He then called them all individually and read the letters to them, and then sent the letter by mail as well.  He did not tell me about any of this until much later.  I only just found out a couple months ago. 

3. Yes, counseling was all him.  Truthfully, I went into it thinking it would be one and done and I wouldn’t go back.  Then I decided I would because it could help me heal (still wasn’t planning on us being together, and I was very open about that in counseling).  I didn’t suggest anything for him to do to “prove,” “earn,” or win back his family - I figured that was something he needed to come up with on his own if he was truly serious about it.  He wanted to come back home at the end of 2019.  We started dating at the beginning of this year, even though I held my cards close to my chest, and didn’t commit to anything at the time.  We started living together again in May of this year - only 2 months ago.

 From 2019 till this year, I really needed my own safe space to retreat to.  When the healing and pain got really dark, I needed my own home.  I needed a place to retreat to and rest.  I was thankful for it.   In 2020, he turned his location on in his phone so I could see where he was at all times - I didn’t check it because I didn’t care, but it was important to him that he was totally transparent.  He’s never turned it off.  If I call and he is with clients, he excuses himself and sends me a text letting me know that he’s with clients and will call me back.  He never lets it go to vm without texting me (his initiative).  He started making lists in 2020 of how he planned on being more intentional in our relationship, and what he wanted our relationship to be in the future, and then without me being on board, started implementing those qualities as a friend without pressuring me for more.  As he was doing this, I was making progress with my healing, and not thinking much of a relationship with him.  I had enough on my plate at the time without taking that on too.  I knew it hurt him, and I felt bad about it, but he never quit.  Slow and steady, he kept pace. 

4. Marriage counseling has been a gift.  I’ve come to realize in the early days of it, it’s not a good session unless you leave frustrated, mad and shaken in your spirit.  When we started diving in to the root issues - pre-mlc issues - wow.  That’s when the real work began.  The first few months it was all about mlc, once that was all out on the table, our counselor dug in deep.  That was painful and there was (more than) a few times that he and I independently thought about not returning.  We stayed the course.  I can’t say enough good about counseling.  We have decided that for at least the next year, we will go once a month - we have a standing appointment, so we don’t ever have to worry about scheduling (again, all him).  But we’ve also decided after that, we will go once every 6 months just to “check in.”  We’ve both gotten so much out of it. 

5.  Oh yes.  I’ve come a long way, but still have work to do.  I remember reading that reconciliation isn’t what most people think it’s like (fireworks, newlywed, etc), I remember being slightly disappointed reading that and thinking that I would at least be excited to have my husband back and my family in tact again.  I am happy that we are back together, I am happy that my family is in tact, but the emotions are so different than how I thought they would be.  Firstly, I’m still exhausted from it all.  I have learned to protect my peace at all costs because I need it to keep healing.  I’m humbled by our reconciliation.  It’s hard to explain, but the gratefulness is so deep that it exceeds anything that “excited” could make me feel.  The bond we have is so thick and heavy.  We’ve been through hell and back, and came through it as best friends.   We respect one another as individuals so much more than we did before.  If you would’ve asked me pre-mlc if we had a great marriage, I would’ve said “absolutely!”  Pre-mlc marriage doesn’t compare to what we have now.  It’s not perfect, but the emotional intimacy and friendship we have now is leaps and bounds better than what we had.

Ursa,  thank you!  Yes, rebuilding is definitely where we are.  That’s another thing I look at with fresh eyes - when we are with our kids as a family.  It’s been 5 years since we’ve had that and when we are able to all be together (our son is stationed in TX), I’m so grateful.  I never want to take it for granted.  I’ve seen how our reconciliation has impacted and influenced our kids.  I see how there’s such a depth and bond we have now.  This aspect is one I know not everyone experiences, and frankly, I wasn’t planning on having it myself.  I’m grateful.

Xyz, Yes, it’s so very real.  H has actually spoken with some friends I had made on here answering their questions (to the best of his ability) because he wants to help others going through this.  He isn’t setting out looking for it, but he is open to answering questions if asked.  That has been healing for him, to think that out of this he can help someone, and it’s been healing for me to be able to listen to his experience and mindset during that time. 

[MadLuv]

Wow Shop girl. What a story! Book worthy.  So complex and so much love and dedication. I have a question. When you had the BD in 2019 when you decided that was it and you had enough, did you stop all communication? Or was there still communication going on. Seems like there was a good year possibly when you were shutting things down?? I assume you did something different to let him know you were done and that was his awakening? What did you do differently?

H-54
W-58
Married 7/6/1991
Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 deceased
Moved out for space-jan 2018
BD1-march 2018 found phone
EA ow1-49
EA-ow2 57 unreciprocated
EA- ow3 58
Moved back-Oct 2018
BD2-October 2020
OW-46 currently dating since bd2
Divorce filed-Dec 202O
Divorce final-Feb 2021
No Contact June 30,2021

[shopgirl]

Hi Torn,

I didn't contact him unless absolutely necessary, but I had already been doing that for a while.  I think what really did it was he came over unannounced one day and saw I had taken down all family pictures with him in it, I had taken off my wedding ring (which I had kept on without ever taking off the entire time of mlc), and he definitely noticed I was no longer trying.  Those two things spoke VOLUMES without me having to say a word.  He knew exactly what that meant.  He actually was very upset about it and told me what he thought about me doing so... that was the wrong thing to do. 

I calmly told him that it was HIM who had just two weeks earlier came by MY house unannounced and told me that he was filing for divorce so he could be with ow.  I then told him I was simply giving him what he wanted - his freedom. I told him that I was done fighting for our marriage, that he had made it clear he was set on ending it, and I wasn't going to try and force anyone to stay in my life that didn't want to be there.  He gave a lame objection that he thought I would at least keep the pictures up for the kids.  I told him that they were old enough to print out a pic of him and keep it in their rooms if they had the desire to, but I didn't need huge canvases of what used to be our family staring at me day in and day out.  It wasn't healthy for me, and I needed to move on. 

That was easier than I would've thought it to be because it's really how I felt.  I wasn't angry, I wasn't trying to shock him, it was the truth.  I wasn't going to keep old family pictures up in MY home.  I had printed out new ones of the kids and I and had those. 

It wasn't but a few weeks later I found out that he had broke it off with ow for good and was trying to come back.  By that time, I was so over having any communication with him that when he called or text, if I didn't feel like dealing with him, I didn't.  I would go weeks without talking more than 5 sentences to him and it felt good.  I needed that break.  He was highly emotional and I couldn't deal with that on top of everything else.  In a nutshell, I think he saw and felt my shift towards him.  The shift of acceptance that he left and I was starting life without him and not pining away waiting for him to come back.  I think that is when he started seeing the reality of what he was leaving AND the stark contrast between us and the mass chaotic lifestyle (ow) he was leaving us for.  He broke it off with ow around Sept/Oct of 2019, started trying to come around in Nov 2019.  I didn't put much effort into communication with him until the middle of 2020, and even then, it wasn't much.  Sept 2020 we started counseling and that was where he really started proving to me that not only was he nearly back to normal, but that he was strong enough to shoulder the burden of our hurts.  It took him that long to really get himself put back together. 

Here's a timeline snapshot:
 
2016 - I sense something is off with H.  He is snappy, distant, irritable.
Spring of 2017 - I suspect an affair
Aug 2017 - I discover affair - this starts the spiraling out of control behavior - I get all of the normal mlc behaviors, quotes, blames, etc.
Fall 2017 - goes back and forth staying at home, or at his office
2018 - continuation of 2017 - all drama, more BD's, trying to come back home just to leave a few days/weeks later
Jan 2019 - attempted to come home was a little different, tried harder - very little clarity, but more than he had for the past few years
Spring 2019 - more of the same - back and forth, in and out, emotional/mental games, blaming, justifying, etc
Summer/early fall 2019 - I discover another BD - he comes home, tries to stay twice.  The second time I warn him that if he leaves again, I'm done.  That I'm done putting the kids and myself through this.  He leaves again while we aren't there during the day.  Two weeks later, comes to my house to tell me he is filing.  I told him to do what he felt he needed to do.  Two weeks later (give or take couple days), he breaks up with ow for good.  (the last several stays in 2019 I saw him getting stronger, and trying harder and having more awareness and clarity). He comes back again trying to move in and be together, this time I decline.
Winter 2019 - he pursues me.  I don't reciprocate. 
Jan-June 2020 - working on his relationship with the kids and still pursuing me.  I'm still not interested.  June he throws major tantrum and forces me to file for divorce.  He lets me know that he regrets it days later and doesn't want a divorce.
June 2020-Sept 2020 - still pursuing me, I'm still act as if I'm not interested.  I knew we both had a ways to go before we could visit that idea.  We were becoming friends though
Sept 2020 - we start marriage counseling.  He makes it clear to counselor that he wants to stay in the marriage, I make it clear that I don't think I do.
Jan 2021 - we start hanging out and "dating" - I keep it very casual because 1. I wanted to make sure that this was what I wanted and 2. I needed proof that he wasn't going to slip up.
March 2021 - I know I want to reconcile, but not ready to tell him because I wanted to be 100% sure I was ready and wasn't quite ready to give up the freedom of living on my own.  I wasn't going to put the kids and myself through another round of him living with us and moving out.  I was very transparent about this in counseling, so he knew the path we were on and knew to be patient.  Things were progressing at a nice pace and we were doing well together.
May 2021 - I knew we were strong enough and healed enough to make it through the rest of the healing process as a couple, living together.
July 2021 - things are going really well.  Rebuilding, starting new traditions and enjoying each others company


I want to share his explanation of what it was like in his head (these are his words):

"It was a fog.  I felt as if I was dreaming, like it wasn't real.  In my mind, I put you and the kids in a "bubble" and shut you out because I thought by doing that, I wasn't hurting you guys with my actions.  I didn't think you guys would be affected by anything I was doing that way.  Every so often, the fog would lift - sometimes it would happen when I was at work, sometimes it would happen when I was with ow and I would freak out inside my head and wonder what the heck I had done and was doing.  I was never 100% clear, but I was clear enough to know that ow wasn't at all what I wanted, and that I wanted you and the kids - but as soon as I would start thinking about that, guilt would wash over me and the fog would settle back in.  Sometimes it would happen multiple times in a day, sometimes it would be once a week.  Sometimes the fog would lift for most of a day or two, sometimes it was 5 minutes."

He's provided me with a lot of insight into his thoughts, emotions, mental and emotional state during that time.     

[Curiosity]

Thank you, shopgirl, for coming back and for sharing your story. I feel like there’s some lesson to be learned in any story; all MLCs are different and yet, some patterns have emerged. It does help to hear the perspective of the recovering MLCer - the fog, the shame, the disorganized path they often take. But more than that, the consistent story of the LBS reaching real detachment, of having goals and dreams and hopes for their lives that, while they might not exclude the MLCer, no longer require their presence. Learning (or re-learning) how to define ourselves, how to seek joy and peace and purpose in ways that don’t rely on the presence of the MLCer is such an important part of our healing, regardless of whether the journeys of the MLCer and LBS ever converge again.

The rebuilding stories are also helpful in that they show exactly how much strength is required, how much trust and vulnerability and love - and the love and trust that we have to have are as much for ourselves as for our spouses. I am so happy for you and your h, for finding a shared path and for really finding your true selves along the way.

[MadLuv]

I was never 100% clear, but I was clear enough to know that ow wasn't at all what I wanted, and that I wanted you and the kids - but as soon as I would start thinking about that, guilt would wash over me and the fog would settle back in.  Sometimes it would happen multiple times in a day, sometimes it would be once a week.  Sometimes the fog would lift for most of a day or two, sometimes it was 5 minutes."

This is so interesting. If he knew that the OW was not what he wanted what was the draw to her or what made him choose her for so long instead of his family? 

[shopgirl]

A quick update -

H and I are doing really well. Still in counseling, but now it’s different. The affair and the time he spent in mlc is hardly talked about anymore. Now it’s working on trust building, communication and strengthening our marriage. H is, dare I say, nearly “normal” again.  He’s changed, as have I, but really, the changes are good. Some are unexpected, and not what I would’ve ever thought of.  For example; pre-mlc, he was horrible about gift-giving.  Literally. He would wait until the night before of any occasion to even start thinking about it. Now, he buys presents a month or two before the holiday or occasion. And delights in it! And it’s not just a present, but  thoughtful gifts that show he is present, listening and paying attention to what I like, need, etc. neither one of our love languages is gifts, but I sure appreciate how thoughtful and how happy he is to give presents.

He’s “softer” - allowing for his emotions to be seen and acknowledged - both by me and himself.  He’s more patient. Aware. In saying that, I’ve changed too. I’m happy about my changes. To be honest, some of them I’m afraid will fade with time, so I tend to focus on them.  I don’t want to lose the lessons I’ve learned through this.

I find myself not having any more questions to ask. After a year of therapy, and him willing to answer anything and voluntarily tell me things that he remembers or thinks I should know, I find myself not caring to know about it or even think about it anymore.  Once in a while I’ll ask something - he answers, if there’s follow up questions, we discuss and then go about what we were doing. The sharp pain isn’t there, no more devastation,  and crying at answers. For either of us.

The strangest thing for me right now is getting used to living with him again. And feeling “married” again. I know that will come in time, as we continue to get to know the new “us” and each other again. But there’s still times when it hits me that we’re back living together and I like him again! I know that sounds funny, and it is - but it’s also very real - in a lot of respects, we are getting to know one another all over again.  not only that, but we both agreed that even though we had a strong, good marriage for most of our marriage - it wouldn’t serve us now, today. So we are creating a new marriage. One that serves us for who we are and what we want our marriage to be. We are figuring out our roles all over again, especially now that I have a career (I was a stay at home mom nearly all of our marriage before this), so now it’s dividing up to responsibilities, etc.

I’m so happy at how far we’ve come. At the healing that is taking place.  There’s more to come I know - we aren’t completely healed yet. But I’m happy with where we are and the direction we’re heading.  I remember reading on here a few years ago that this stage wouldn’t be fireworks and hallmark movie status - and boy were  they right.  What I realized as I was at lunch with a friend who was expressing her joy about us being back together is this;  my “joy” of being reconciled is wrapped in blood, sweat, tears, hard work, etc., it’s a humbled joy. It’s a heavy joy. It’s still “joy” but it comes with a muddy puddle of several other emotions, exhaustion, and lots of grit. Her joy that she has the luxury of experiencing is the “Hallmark movie” joy. She gets the pretty, neatly wrapped in a bow joy - and I’m okay with that. It actually makes me happy to see my friends and family’s reactions. Their joy is light and giddy. My joy is thick and quiet.  I’m not sure if that makes sense to anyone but me?

[Curiosity]

Thanks for the update - there’s so much to learn here, and while a big part of it is that individual healing that we each have to do, rebuilding the relationship is an important part of the story for some. I think that a big part of the reason it’s important to see examples of rebuilding and reconciliation here is precisely what you say - it’s not the Hallmark movie, it takes blood, sweat, and tears. But there are so many rewards that can come from it - at the foundation, a new, wiser relationship that both people truly cherish. It’s important to remember that it’s possible, but just as important to remember how hard the fight to get there can be. So I am grateful to you for continuing to check in and update.

[MadLuv]

Shopgirl-
I have learned so much from your story and all your amazing insights. I hope your H adds to the fog thread someday under discussions. I think he has great knowledge to share as well. 😊

[shopgirl]

Shopgirl-
I have learned so much from your story and all your amazing insights. I hope your H adds to the fog thread someday under discussions. I think he has great knowledge to share as well. 😊

Thank you Tornup.  He is open to doing it.  I have met two very special friends on this site, and he has been more than willing to answer their questions and speak to them.  It's healing for him.  He is at the place now where he tells people "I did all of those awful things, but it's not WHO I am."  Coming to that acceptance and mindset has been difficult and brutal, but he is in a really good place now and it helps him to know that he could potentially help others on the opposite end of this.   The question now is finding the time to sit down and get it written down.  He's not a writer, so it would be a team effort of him talking, me writing, and reading it back to make sure his original point gets through. 

As for another update, we are doing well.  Went to another counseling session last week.  I surprised our counselor when I said that his mlc/affair/etc all seems so long ago now.  I had woke up that morning and a thought had passed through my mind it made me think of something totally different that had happened during his mlc and I couldn't believe how long ago it felt. 

In a related note, all throughout the mlc journey, I recorded/journaled everything - major & minor "events" mainly because I prefer writing - it helps me sort through and figure things out, and also - I didn't trust that I would remember things. 

When H and I decided that this was "it" and we were going to finish our lives as husband and wife, we planned a night.  A nice dinner and a "burning" party.  I was ready to let go of all the journaling pages, all the printed off articles with my tear-stained notes in the margins.  We burned them in the backyard of our rental house.  I was ready to not have the baggage in my home.  Even though I hadn't looked at it in at least 9 months to a year, I knew I didn't need to be reminded of any of it anymore.  I had waited to do so until I stopped questioning if I would regret it and it came at the right time of us getting back together.  That being said, I don't remember a lot of things - at least not as much as I used to.  I've forgotten a lot, and some memories come back if something triggers it, other than that, for the first time in 4 years, (since BD), my mind and my thoughts are at peace.  This is a place I never thought I would get to.   

You may not know this, as all of my first posts on this site are now gone (thanks to the former OW), but we sold our home right before I found out about the affair (Aug 2017).  It was a blessing as I didn't know what was about to hit me and the kids.   He had told the OW he was going to sell it and then divorce me, which of course was a lie - he had given me an entirely different reason for selling... four years later, we have bought property and are building again.  It's not lost on me that this restoration is coming full circle.  I'm humbled.  Before when we would build, I would go into obsessive planning mode - eating, sleeping and breathing choices, colors, etc.  This time is polar opposite.  I'm focused on us and our relationship, and much more laid back on the house building process.  Maybe a little too laid back, but I'm okay with that. 

Thanks for the update - there’s so much to learn here, and while a big part of it is that individual healing that we each have to do, rebuilding the relationship is an important part of the story for some. I think that a big part of the reason it’s important to see examples of rebuilding and reconciliation here is precisely what you say - it’s not the Hallmark movie, it takes blood, sweat, and tears. But there are so many rewards that can come from it - at the foundation, a new, wiser relationship that both people truly cherish. It’s important to remember that it’s possible, but just as important to remember how hard the fight to get there can be. So I am grateful to you for continuing to check in and update.

Curiosity, I totally agree.  H and I have both changed.  It has made our relationship so much better.  I bolded a part of your comment because it is so important for people to realize.  At one point or another, both H and I thought about tapping out - that it was hopeless, but by the grace of God, we held in there and fought when we didn't hardly have any fight to give.  I had to give myself time to see if my feelings for him were still there.  That took time & TRUST that he wasn't going to hurt me again. He had to practice patience in the midst of uncertainty and rejection from me.  The road to reconciliation is raw with emotion - for both parties. 

I hope you all are doing well.  I'll keep checking in.

[Standing Strong]

Thank you for sharing your story SG, it's very inspiring. 

I can only imagine what's it's like to get to the end after all those bumps and bruises (and a lot more).

Very inspirational.

-SS

[Acorn]

Shopgirl!!!  I remember you! 

Good to read that you and husband are doing well.   

I sense your calmness between the lines.  Taking one day at a time, and living with gratitude, forgiveness and love in your heart will do that, I think. 

Wishing you nothing but the very best in the future. 

(((((HUGS)))))

[Zion]

So happy for you and your husband Shop Girl!!!!! 

I am also 4 years post BD (2 years post divorce).  Though I have healed so much, the WTF and hurt is still there.  My XH has recently moved in with OW and blended their families (never told me).  The yuck factory is still strong in me and it sucks bc she is a teacher at my kids school (who would have thought school was a danger to the family unit?).  She was extra helpful....and then lived up to her reputation of hunting for hot dads.  I would love love to remove her from my life...but going on 5 years of trying to shake this stage 5 clinger.

Can I ask why OW caused you to delete your posts?  Was it identification of your story?

I love to see your story over the years as I had a feeling your H would come to terms with his actions. 

[UrsaMajor]

ShopGirl,

I am SO happy that things are working out. In concurrence with the other Mods and RCR, you'll see that your icon color has been changed to light purple!It has been a long hard slog but you have persevered and made it through to the other side. Congratulations!

[UrsaMajor]

Moving this thread back into the Active board for an update

[shopgirl]

Thank you Ursa.

I didn’t intend to disappear, especially for so long - but now that I feel I can breathe again, I wanted to update because the updates I read while going through my Hs mlc helped me and gave me so much insight. Maybe mine will help someone.

We reconciled in 2021, stayed in counseling until mid 2022. At that point we had been in counseling 2 years. We still go every 6 months for a “wellness check” - just to be sure that if there is any small “blip” it’s recognized and taken care of.  Our counselor suggested once a year from now on.

Life is good. Marriage is strong. Mlc hurts are mostly gone, and the little residue that is left feels numb. I’m removed from it. Maybe moved past it - if that’s a better description?

Last year, our D graduated college, met a boy she loves, started her new career at our company. A month later was diagnosed with cancer. Around the same time, my mom was officially diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. We were still in the process of building our home. Our S got engaged. 

All of these events sent me spiraling. After years of enduring the stress of mlc, I didn’t have the strength (physical or emotional) to handle it all. I did what I did during Hs mlc, fell off the face of the earth, focused on only the things I needed to - our D and my mom. H picked up the slack. He was my oak. I leaned so heavy on him because I couldn’t handle it. My body - health-wise, couldn’t handle it. He stepped up, took control without complaint. This is the H I married. It’s when I fully realized he was himself again and I didn’t have to worry.  I had known I didn’t, but head and heart knowledge don’t always see the same.

I don’t know what I thought reconciliation would look like - but for what it’s worth,  here’s what I’ve learned:

- it’s slow and steady. Make headway, take what seem to be a few steps back, only then to move beyond the setback with a stronger bond.
- the worry and anxiety of of the next shoe to drop, the next battle to face, keeping your guard up for what might happen takes a LONG time to fade away. Honestly, it’s not entirely gone for me, but it doesn’t rule my thoughts like it once did.
- the fear of allowing myself to be happy takes work - much work to get rid of. This goes hand in hand with the above lesson, but I wanted to write it separately because it’s such a beast to overcome.
- life goes on. I had ignorantly thought once we reconciled that I would be able to focus on getting my health back to where it was before all of this. Nope. Instead we built a house, our D got cancer, my mom has Alzheimer’s, and my son is getting married. All while I worked full time and had daily responsibilities. I’ve had to juggle and make rest a priority squeezed in amongst these things.
- I made the right choice to stay in my marriage. It’s not the right choice for everyone, but if you think it is for you - stick it out. Do the hard work. Dig your heels in and choose it. Every day. Every minute. Because one day, the choosing will come naturally, the loving on and laughter will take the place of the hurt and anxiety. The mlc will be what seems like a distant memory. If you choose to stay - fight for this outcome. It’s a hard fight. But was it worth it for me? 100%.

This year, I quit my corporate job to work alongside my H at our company. This is something that 2 years ago I said I would never do - it was my “safety net.” This was my “insurance” that if something happened, I would “be okay.”  My feelings have changed. I know I’ll be okay if god forbid something happen to my H - but now I’m comfortable and feeling safe that I’m building our company together. Our future.

After multiple, multiple surgeries over the past year, our D is now cancer free.

Life is good. And for the first time, I feel strong enough to start focusing on my health. Being proactive.

A wise woman in the forum once told me to make sure to get on supplements when I started this whole mlc journey. She said mlc will real havoc on my body and that I would need to focus on staying healthy. To be honest, at that time, that was the last thing I was going to worry about. I had too much on my plate, I was overwhelmed, and I honestly didn’t know what sort of craziness  I was about to get into.  I wish I had listened to her. Mlc took my health. So please, if you’re just starting out, or 2-3 years in, get on supplements. Be mindful of your body. Take care of it. Make it a priority. Because it’s being worked HARD.

I’m lucky that mine will improve, it will heal, but I can’t help but think how much healthier it would be if I had focused on it.

Also - in order to go to work, I pass the OW house. Every day. I’ve run into her several times. We’ve caught her driving by our home. It doesn’t affect me like it did even a year ago. It’s weird really. How much has changed.  This is something I’ll save for a future post - maybe? If it’s helpful to someone.

To the poster that asked about if the OW had found me on here - sorry for the extremely late response - yes. She stalked me and my kids relentlessly.

[MadLuv]

Thank you so much for taking the time to come back and update. So much good and so much pain, but your H stepped up and that had to and has to be the most reassuring thing in all this. Now you can work again as a team to concur and withstand lifes ups and downs again , but stronger!!

I’m so sorry about your Mom. So hard. Very happy to hear your daughter has made it through her toughest times and is healthy. Wishing you and your family so much happiness!!

[xyzcf]

Thank you shopgirl for coming back and updating your story.

As you have said, life goes on. It is uncertain and we learn that it isn't in our control.

My mom also had Alzheimer's. So scary to hear about your daughter's cancer. May she be totally healed.

Yes our health takes a beating. It's hard to focus on taking care of ourselves..the energy just isn't there.

Just wanted to say thank you! The people who come back and have reconciled tell a similar story. That marriages can be healed and rebuilt. That it is possible.

I know that we can't count on that happening ...... but I do believe that we can grow and live a good life while still having hope that someday our spouse will pull through.

I rejoice every time I read of this happening!

All the best to your family!

[Biscuit]

Shopgirl.... your update was so nice to read. Brought joy to me and made me cry!

[Evermore]

Shopgirl, thank you so very much for coming back to update your story.

I'm so glad to hear that your D is now doing well, but so sorry about your Mum. (My FIL has very recently gone into a care home and whilst he's still pretty with it, I noticed just last night that his memory is getting a bit shaky and it was a bit jolting and has forced me start to mentally prepare for him to slip further, he is nearly 97).

Reading back over your story I'm struck by how similar in many ways your story is to mine in the distress and confusion and just plain weirdness of the few years leading up to, and then the few years after, BD. In my case though my H dug in deep and moved the OW firmly into his life very very early on. For him there were (as with your H) some 'confused actions' about his committent to a new life and desire to 'get rid of' his old life; many backwards and forwards actions/thoughts at the start. But they have all gradually gradually faded away over the past 4 years. We also had a lot of contact at the start and that has steadily declined so that he is right now 'very far away' mentally. He had a bit of a 'blip' a year ago where he turned a bit towards me, but circumstances at that time I think (her 50th BDay and having to move houses with her and sign a new joint lease) made him turn back towards the OW and commit to continue on with her.

All that is left of all that seeming confusion now, the last little pieces of him hanging on to our family, is that we still have family health insurance, a joint bank account, and we're all still on the same Medicare card (I asked him several times if he wants to change any of that but each time he says he wants to leave things as they are). Oh and I guess also that all his stuff is still in my shed (which he set up a year after BD as a work shop like he would be spending time there, so weird)!

It interests me how there can be all these similarities in many stories at the start, and yet very different 'endings'. Of course we shouldn't, but I do think about what the differences might be. I wonder how and why the paths (some to a possible restoration attempt and others to continue on separately getting further and further apart) diverge. I've thought for a while that there is a lot of 'dumb luck' (not exactly what I'm trying to describe, but close enough) involved in how stories play out.

In many of the stories we hear about the OW is commonly a nutter/very dysfunctional person.  The OW in my story appears JUST OK enough to allow him to continue forward for now with trying to create his new life with her. I know he's not living a wonderfully happy life (he told me so), but I think he dug in so deep so quickly, and has made so many promises, and the way back would be so so hard, that he is currently very determined to make this life that he has chosen, work. As if he feels that he made such a HUGE decision, and caused so much damage to me, himself, our girls, his and my families, that if he can follow this through and makes a success of this new life, it will all have been worth it.

Also, as ridiculous as it sounds, if he was the type of person that could have had an affair (and he had met some typically dysfunctional crazy OW) it might even have turned out better (for me and our marriage I mean). As he's not the type of person that could have had a long-term ongoing affair, he instead chose to do (what he saw as) the 'honourable thing'  in telling me he'd met someone (a few weeks before... supposedly, I think it was a few months probably) and that it was over (and then very publicly moving STRAIGHT in with her and making a load of loud and public promises to her about buying a house together etc). To make matters worse the OW is a stage 10 clinger who clearly wanted a 'good man' and didn't care if he was someone else's husband (as a past acquaintance of hers, who is a friend of my SIL said: "she is incredibly needy and will be 'rusted on', he won't be able to get rid of her").

It's his right to have made this decision, and I'm trying hard to be OK with it. Hey, if it does work out with her, maybe he was right all along?  It just all feels so... butterfly effect/sliding doors-ish that if he hadn't met this particular OW, or if he had been a different person and not jumped in so intensely from the start (making backtracking way harder than it might have been) it might have played out differently? But who can know.

I know thinking about all this is, as the famous saying goes, like trying to taste green with my elbow, because I have no way of knowing what his life is REALLY currently like (I hear stuff and am close to his family but of course I'm biased about interpreting any info, lol). My brain does go there though and it's helpful to me to have a place to 'get those thoughts out'. So I hope you don't mind that I shared them here. I really am so grateful that you're continuing to post. And so so happy for you and your family that you are almost all healed up and can experience that 'heavy thick joy' (I understand what you mean by that feeling).  I hope your D's health continues to be well and that you continue to share your progress here with us.
 

[Treasur]

Shopgirl, thank you for sharing such an honest update. I’m sure it will help someone else, perhaps someone who reads but without posting, perhaps someone in the future  who hasn’t even been BD’d yet.

I am sorry for those life troubles and glad to hear that your daughter is doing ok. What I  found most moving in your update was when you said both that you hit your own coping limits (bc most of us know how that feels) and that your h stepped into that space and was a source of support for you. I am glad that this is what happened bc, like you, most of us know how hard it is to feel like we have no support at all and how much of a difference it can make in hard times. Nice too that your h knows that he did that….I suspect these folks who try to rebuild their family life must carry some degree of deep shame about the damage they caused and it must feel rather nice to be the rock instead of the stone through the metaphorical window

[JoJoJo]

Love ❤️ that you and H are going strong!
So sorry for what you have been through with all the family medical problems!  Thank God your D is cancer free!  And I agree it is so nice to see that your H really is the man you married, being there for you.  I have had similar realizations, I have been so skeptical and guarded in reconciliation. Then out of the blue something happens and my H reacts the way he should, the way I was used to be confident in before the MLC.  It’s so nice to have that moment when you look and see…ahhh yes he is back!  The man I married is back!