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Author Topic: MLC Monster "I Don't Buy It" - One woman's story of her H's MLC

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Here is the article I referred to on my thread the other day that the author of a Parade article had also referenced.  This was a topic of discussion on LT for several days last year and I thought many on here may at least enjoy the read.  Simplified, yes, but by all accounts it is a factual telling straight from the horse's mouth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html?_r=2




(countdown to a DGU article link disputing it......10.....9.....8.... LOL!!)
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Thundarr

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Laura Munson's article shut down the NY Times Modern Love comments section and she got a book deal out of it. Too bad Modern Love didn't want me story!
I wrote a way too long review of her book--it complained that the book wa stoo long--the irony! But it was. It was poorly edited--the story sort of started in the first pages and then she meandered backwards into history for amost 100 pages, mentioned the story again and then back to meandering for awhile.
Laura did all the right things, but most situations will not be resolved within a few months no matter what you do right. Compared to what you guys on here are going through, Laura's experience was a cake-walk--which though it may sound like it is nothing like dealing with a cake-eater.
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k
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Thundarr - I think that's a great story - but have to wonder if her H is coming up for a second more major bout of crisis in the next few years, just as some of us on here have experienced.
I hope not, but I'm watching .........

Quote
Compared to what you guys on here are going through, Laura's experience was a cake-walk--which though it may sound like it is nothing like dealing with a cake-eater.

LOL RCR - Nicely put  :)
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Wow!  Super fast replies and one by RCR herself!  I'm honored....

I didn't know she had written a book, to tell the truth.  I'd be very interested to see what the critical reception of it was.  Out of curiosity do you think her story really was MLC and if so how do you feel about the relatively short duration?
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Thundarr

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I read that book.  I was very disappointed in it.  Lots of background on how she grew up...how they met....how they had children and moved away.  How her husband had job and money issues.....became disenchanted with his life...and decided it was because he didn't love his wife anymore.

Yes.  She had a nice line..."I don't buy it."  She convinced him to find a way to get the space he needed without damaging the family. 

Husband hangs out in the garage for a while and voila! - crisis is over and everything was fine!

Lots of pages about things I wasn't interested in reading...and very few pages on the actual "crisis" or how they got through it.

And, yes, I think most of us would be "success stories" if our spouse came around as quickly as Laura Munson's husband did.

RCR - I have a theory about why this story was "more accepted" than yours (or many of those here would be).  There was no known OW - or affair.  The MLCer did not leave the family.  There was little to no high energy replay damage - that I recall from the book. 

The real world can accept that Laura Munson "worked through" her husband's crisis.  The real world would not be as open minded about stories of reconciliation when the MLCer has caused much damage (divorce, financial issues, marrying the OW, having a child with the OW).  The real world (with few exceptions - in my opinion) feels that the LBS needs to "kick 'em to the curb" in those instances.

Yes.  I have a few opinions on this one.

limitless
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 09:39:16 PM by limitless »
M -64,  ExH - 71 (57 at BD)
M - 33 years (did the last 3 years count?)
D - 34, D -30, S - 30
BD 5/29/2010, Ran away from home - 8/15/2010,
Found out about affair - 2/11
H asks for divorce - 8/11
H filed for divorce 10/11
Announced "new" girlfriend 12/12 (3rd OW)
Divorce final 06/13 (I decided to finish it)
Dumped OW#3 9/15 (After 4 years)
Married OW#1 2019
OW#1 filed for divorce from ExH 9/24

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RCR - I have a theory about why this story was "more accepted" than yours (or many of those here would be).  There was no known OW - or affair.  The MLCer did not leave the family.  There was little to no high energy replay damage - that I recall from the book. 

The real world can accept that Laura Munson "worked through" her husband's crisis.  The real world would not be as open minded about stories of reconciliation when the MLCer has caused much damage (divorce, financial issues, marrying the OW, having a child with the OW).  The real world (with few exceptions - in my opinion) feels that the LBS needs to "kick 'em to the curb" in those instances.


Spot on, Limitless. It is MLC for the world at large. It is easy, it did not last long, it caused no damage, there was no OW. My cousin had one of those MLC without OW and with little financial damage. Just his took, since it become visible 4 years (including the time he has “waked up”). And I’m not sure he is done with it.

Still, I could live pretty well with my cousin’s MLC. And would love to have a husband with Laura’s one. But maybe Kikki’s is right, Laura’s husband may be coming on a second bout of crisis.
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Laura's story shut down the site with comments because of the controversy--about her not kicking him out. Imagine the controversy with mine! It would get huge ratings. ;D  It was the longer version of what I posted here two years ago--Adopting a New Life. The thread I run is titled that, but I titled the article that and posted a short version I put up for a contest in August 2010. It had the feel-good full circle of the start being about Sweetheart saying he didn't want kids and the end with us starting the adoption process.
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Out of curiosity do you think her story really was MLC and if so how do you feel about the relatively short duration?
It was not MLC. MLT perhaps, but not MLC...at least not fully at that time. Will he go through a full and thus worse MLC at some point in the future? Who knows, how has she changed her marriage? She focused on Self and pulled herself through his crisis, but did she do anything like Alisa Bowman of Project Happily Ever After?
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 09:56:49 PM by Rollercoasterider »

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(countdown to a DGU article link disputing it......10.....9.....8.... LOL!!)

I am quite honored that you would think of me Thundarr.  I must however give a reminder that when I link information, it is not mine.....it is typically RCR's or Conway's.

RCR reviewed Munson quite some time ago, so I have some vague familiarity.  This is my point of view....my opinion.....but when there is no OP, no physical separation and a short time frame, I typically think of it as a transition versus a crisis.

Thundarr....I have been at this for a while.  Over 2.5 years.  I know what you are hoping....your goal is speed.  I've seen it a lot in the time I've been around.  Here's an article reference for you from RCR's article on Acceptance.

If your goal is speed, it will fail. But most of you will need to learn that through experience. Make your goal Acceptance. It is my wish that you accept the Time reality and make goals within that context. But most of you have the fantasy and hope that you will be the exception, you will change his mind or maybe you doubt it is MLC and therefore believe it will be faster for you. Maybe you are right; exceptions to rules are part of the rules and this is your journey.

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« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 10:02:59 PM by Dontgiveup »

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I read and enjoyed the book.  i kinda liked hearing the background details about their life together.  But it was early in the process for me and I do think it gave me a false sense of hope for a shorter crises.  Plus, the hardest part of this journey for me has been the adultery and deception around the adultery.  As far as I know Laura's H never had an affair?  Although she does mention at some point she thought about std's and wondered if she should be protecting herself.  Still, OW is never confirmed or talked about.
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Gallagher

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I read Munson's book not long after it came out, in the fall of 2009.  I'd read a review in The Washington Post that sounded interesting and I remember going right out to buy it.  I also remember noticing that I didn't normally do that after reading a positive review and wondering why i was so interested in reading this book.

Although I didn't know it consciously, and wouldn't for another 14 months, my H was already sleeping with OW at the time(!)  He was about 8 months into his affair by then.

That's interesting, isn't it?  I read it 14 months before BD.  I now suspect that, on an unconscious level, I must have suspected something wasn't right. . .

I remember being impressed by Munson's "certainty" about her marriage and her willingness to stick it out through what, when I read it, seemed to me to be big, big challenges.

Hah! As RCR says above, Munson had a cake walk compared to the mildest story we've got here.  As I remember, her H was only gone for a few months (4 maybe?)  I wasn't certain when I'd finished the book whether or not there had been an OW.  Munson seemed to be somewhat cagey about that issue.  She stated early in the story that she decided she wasn't going to go there, or something to that effect, and she didn't bring it up again.  If there was an OW, her H wasn't flagrant about it.

I thought the book quite interesting at the time.  Today I think I'd consider it very light weight.  I liked that Munson was sticking up for the commitment of marriage, something rare enough in any kind of literature today be it fiction or nonfiction.  I think I even told my H how much I liked the book at the time!  God how he must have blanched inside.

A real MLC "true life" book needs to be written.  One that chronicles the 3, 4, 5 year stories.  One that describes the baiting, monstering, flagrant infidelity, history rewriting, abandonment of children, insanity, personality changes, cruelties, etc. of the average MLCer from a personal point of view, "this is my story" as Munson did.

I think one of the reasons Munson book was popular was that it was a first person account.  It was not a self-help or "How I Survived My Husband's MLC, And You Can Too" sort of thing.  She didn't give advice, as I recall.  She simply presented it as "this is what happened to me and how I handled it."

RCR, we're waiting for your publication date!

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I read the article (but not the book) not long after BD for me.  It sure made me hopeful that my H would "snap out of it" quickly since he was still in the house, etc.  Ha!

I also tend to think MLT rather than MLC.  It just wasn't long enough or severe enough. 
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I too read the book for guidance before i found this site. I feel that if more people were aware of the reality of MLC  in the way most of us are experiencing  it would help. her book gives false hope.
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I read this book just after h left.  The huge difference was that Munson's h did not have an OW.  She did do all the right things but the situation was far less serious--it seemed like a transition rather than a crisis.  I think she stated early on that she gave him 6 months--my h was already 6 months into replay so I knew it wasn't MY story.
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I think she stated early on that she gave him 6 months--my h was already 6 months into replay so I knew it wasn't MY story.

The idea that anyone external would set a timeline for someone else's crisis or transition seems absurd now, even to those of us who are recovering control freaks I'm sure.  There's no way it could be a real crisis if those sort of limits actually worked.  I think in reality, Monster would laugh in our faces if we did that!
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I think she stated early on that she gave him 6 months--my h was already 6 months into replay so I knew it wasn't MY story.

The idea that anyone external would set a timeline for someone else's crisis or transition seems absurd now, even to those of us who are recovering control freaks I'm sure.  There's no way it could be a real crisis if those sort of limits actually worked.  I think in reality, Monster would laugh in our faces if we did that!

yep, really absurd. It worked for her but I think it was a MIL. And a very mild one. Monster would have not listened to any timeline we would give them.

Trusting, I not sure I would want to read a book about real MLC. I find it enought to go through one. But maybe people who have not had to deal with one (no yet, at least) may find it useful. But I confess if I had read a book about real MLC before husband's one I would had run to a lawyer right after BD and moved on.

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A real MLC "true life" book needs to be written.  One that chronicles the 3, 4, 5 year stories.  One that describes the baiting, monstering, flagrant infidelity, history rewriting, abandonment of children, insanity, personality changes, cruelties, etc. of the average MLCer from a personal point of view, "this is my story" as Munson did.
RCR, we're waiting for your publication date!
But my book is not a memoir about my story, it is prescriptive non-fiction; that's self-help. At its present length I cannot fit anything more into it. I have 3 chapters I will likely be asked to cut and after that most agents want me to cut 10K more words. Some people feel I need to add some pieces of my story--perhaps in sidebars or chatper-end vignettes. So I am busy preparing those, but at this point I can't fit them--I'll need a lot of help from an editor to do that.
My book describes all those tings--the baiting, Monstering, infidelity, rewriting... but it does so in a clinical way.
I think she stated early on that she gave him 6 months.

Yes, she did. Of course had it gone on longer and escalated she may have changed her mind about that limitation--many here start that way. But in her original essay or book she did not learn and thus gave no advice about such a limitation being a bad idea. Her essay was controversial and yet she was in-line with most peoples idea of what a person should do--it's just that those people bashing her weren't in it and so it looked bad to them.
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She may have not changed her mind about that limitation. Most people idea of what a person should do is the logical one. Even if we know about MLC, it stills be the logical thing to do. Logical does not mean the right one or the one we have to do. But, frankly, how many people can afford to deal with a MLC spouse? How many are willing to? Very few.

Human life length is not compatible with the length of MLC. 7 years is, for many, a tenth of their lives. Discount the childhood and adolescence years and you have 20 years reduced to those 70 years. Add to the remaining 50, 7 or so of MLC, and you end up with a good portion of your adult life taken by MLC. Insane.

I, for once, have been married and together for 10 years and have been married without a husband or marriage for 6 years. It is insane.

It makes much more sense to get divorced. Then, one will see whatever comes, former spouse back, another spouse, remain single. Remaining married to an MLCer is not always the better option to save the marriage.

Even if one trust the process one has to accept that is takes too long. And that, too long may, in fact, be too long.
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T
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It may not make more sense for everyone to get divorced; that is where each of our situations is so individual.  So many factors are part; length of marriage and length of time since BD are only a small part of it.  And when I talk about not getting divorced as the sensible option I don't mean just in terms of saving the marriage; there may well be other, perhaps financial, perhaps other, factors to take into considerations as well.  That's another reason it's so hard, because it's often so complicated as well. 

And some of those factors may even be conflicting, making it all harder still.  It's like what RCR writes about separating out monster and non-monster, sometimes you can't even tell.

That's why this is the hardest thing we'll ever do.
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Yes T&L, if i do a cost/benefit analysis of my marriage it = standing.  Not just financially but in every way.  Not sure what time limit would change that.
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I read this book last month and actually gave it to my therapist when I was done! However, as others have noted, people who are dealing with a real crisis that includes abandonment and an affair will likely wish they would be so lucky to have had her experience. Personally, the whole time I was reading this book I kept thinking that he was probably hiding an affair and she was consciously in denial. But whatever, there's a reason denial exists. I wish her well and her book offered me a lot in terms of a hopeful spirit and good attitudes to try and adopt.
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I read this book last summer too.  While I believe her H's was more of a MLT, I also think she had some nice editing and "Hollywoodizing (sp :) ), added to make it more commercial (i.e. increase sales!).

For me whether or not there was an OW, MLT or MLC, or if her H will have a full blown MLC later on doesn't really matter.  She did what we know works. Now the meaning of works does not always mean getting back together, etc.  She gave her H space, worked on herself, protected her children, etc.  Yes it is simplistic, but what it does and did do for a lot it gives them hope.  Hope is what we live off of, especially in the beginning.

Personally I believe her book was written so Lifetime Network could buy it and make some money on the feel good ending.  If only all our journeys were that smooth and short.  :)

Hugs and Hope,

Sassy
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It may not make more sense for everyone to get divorced; that is where each of our situations is so individual.  So many factors are part; length of marriage and length of time since BD are only a small part of it.  And when I talk about not getting divorced as the sensible option I don't mean just in terms of saving the marriage; there may well be other, perhaps financial, perhaps other, factors to take into considerations as well.  That's another reason it's so hard, because it's often so complicated as well. 

And some of those factors may even be conflicting, making it all harder still.  It's like what RCR writes about separating out monster and non-monster, sometimes you can't even tell.

That's why this is the hardest thing we'll ever do.

Each of our situations is individual but, from what I've seen with myself and in here in the board, unless they return before too much damaged is done, divorce offers better financial protection. It also offers better emotional protection and it is easier to detach. And we have also seen here on the board that female MLCers divorce pretty fast. It is normaly the male ones who drag and drag and drag.

There are the children for those who have children. But it is really better to remain married to a person who is having an affair/living with OW/OM, monster, cutting us off financially and spending with other person? What does that tells the kids? I'm not sure... Will the kids thanks us for have enduring extreme hardship while mum or dad were having their crisis and causing huge damage? Not sure... I would have not thank my mum or dad for that and would undestand they had divorced. If I was a kid I would had much more trouble getting why my mum/dad would not divorce a person that was causing us so much pain.

Think everyone here knows I deeply regret had not divorce my husband right after BD. It was a mistake I have been paying very highly for. So, my perpective on the matter has changed drastically. The pain of divorce would had been nothing compared with this. And I'm still not free and have not been financially or legally free for ages.
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AnneJ.... I sympathize with your particular sitch..... I really do...

In regards to children..... kids DON'T CARE what their parent's problems, needs or wants are...... KIDS WANT TO COME FIRST, NO MATTER WHAT!!! They do NOT want their parents to divorce, though they might give "permission" to the abused or unhappy spouse under the circumstance.... that's what I did when my parents wanted to divorce.... but in reality, they all want their parents to SACRIFICE and BE TOGETHER AT ANY COST for THEM!!! Because kids can ALSO intellectualize... and "understand" their parents' dilemma.... but in their heart of hearts, divorces tears their world apart..... leaving a trail of abandonment issues as well as the inability to TRUST a love partner..... as well as the inability to MIRROR a healthy relationship!!!

Kids do not "get over divorce" because "they are resilient..."..... the SURVIVE divorce because they have NO VOICE. The damage of divorce is for lifetime. Now, that doesn't mean I think all couples should stay together no matter what.... but, I do UNDERSTAND the true price of divorce on children..... it is actually NOT worse for them to survive an MLC and come out the other side with their family intact... the reward is the same as for the LBS... their FAMILY STRUCTURE is protected for life.... Holidays are spent with their parents... TOGETHER.... not with some OP they didn't grow up with. I'm fortunate that both of my fathers (natural and adoptive) remarried women I like and get along with... BUT, they are NOT my "family".... where the Mother goes, so the children go and the relationship with the Father is NEVER the same.

For the record, my kids remind me of my initial promise to them which was that I would do my absolute best to keep our family together, against all odds, regardless of Dad's antics......Also for the record.... I love him, but without kids, I would have been long gone.... that's just my nature. I'm glad I've stayed, because I see the end of the tunnel..... it's a tragedy that so many months and years have been lost to MLC. By the way, I'm not lecturing at all.... just addressing your question regarding children... My generation was the first generation of no-fault divorce and the fallout is ugly.
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Lao Tsu

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LG, I know the price of divorce on children. My cousins, who I lived with for many years, have divorced parents. My husband did not have divorce parents (not until he was in his late 20’s) but is dad had OW and keep going and coming. My husband and his sister detested the situation and much prefer they dad to left for good. Dad only did when they were adults. It did no good to those kids to have their parents married for years on end. MIL did not wanted to divorce for the sake of appearances and she end up doing her kids much more damage.

Yes, kids are resilient and survive divorce. And yes, kids just want to have their parents around and don’t care about adults issues but they do care if home is a mess because mum and dad has OW/OM and there is no peace and no happiness.

Well, my parents in law only divorced when the kids were adults, FIL would be around for Christmas for a couple of hours and then leave to be with OW (and the kdis knew this). He never went on holidays with his kids, hardly had time for them but had all the time in the world for OW. My FIL was not in MLC, he was a womanizer.

My husband had a terrible pain because his dad would spend all the time with OW and not with them. So, remaining married does not always help the kids. In his and his case sister case, it was hell.

And I have seen the same with couples where the parents don’t divorce and mum or dad have OW/OM (MLC or not) and keep coming and going or lived for ages with other person. Keep the family in one piece is the goal but I’m not convinced doing it at all costs (like my MIL tried to do) does any good to the kids. Divorce does not any good but some marriages and some married situations also don’t do any good to the kids.

And, anyway, kids know the parent in MLC (or who has a tendency to serial affairs) has abandoned them for the sake of someone else. Or for selfishness. Kids know they have not come first for a long, long time on a MLC parent priority. Or the philanderer parent.

A sort of no fault divorce only exists here since 2008. For many decades here divorce was almost non existent. We were living under a dictatorship and women belong to their husband’s (true. To leave the country a woman would need her husband’s signature. If no husband, dad, uncle, older brother. Same to a woman to work. For a woman to divorce it was almost impossible, so women endure whatever it comes their way). So, divorce is some how a recent thing around here.


 
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In fact, it is funny, my husband never wanted to be like his dad, always dread of abandoning his wife. Never wanted to have OW, wanted to be married until dead do us apart and be totally different from his father. And here he is, being even worst than is dad. Wonder what he thinks of it… In a way I’m glad we have no children. 
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W and I both grew up in intact households.  My dad died when I was 15 and my Mom has never remarried, though she did have a boyfriend for several years.  W's parents have been married almost 60 years and are closer now than they have been the whole time I've known them.  Her grand-parents were married more than 76 years before her grandmother died.  The whole idea of us getting D just blows me away as W has had to put up with nowhere near what either of our parents did as our lives have been much easier.  I know this has nothing to do with the M, but I struggle to understand how she will ever be able to put this together in her mind in any meaningful way.  It is truly mind-boggling.
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Thundarr

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I understand, AnneJ..... and I agree that staying together for the sake of appearances does NOT solve the problem... SOME people ARE serial cheaters... they are!!! No reward in staying with them, unless there is a lot of money involved!!! Perhaps your MIL was a doormat, but perhaps she had other reasons that are clouded by others' judgement.... kids often say they HATED the hell of cheater coming and going.... that must be true!! BUT, like any choice of the "lesser of two evils", most kids would still choose for their parents to stay together... NOW, if the cheated on spouse is bitter, angry.... NEVER going to be willing to move forward... because the cheater is NOT REMORSEFUL, a serial cheater... womanizer... well, then SOMEBODY did NOT do their homework while dating, hahahahahah!! BUT, for instance... in MY case... my husband is NOT happy about the cheating.. feels compelled... addicted...wanting to stop.... does not love her.... THEN... there is hope... and a reason to stick with it!!!

I am in NO way arguing against anyone choosing a different outcome for their sitch!!! It is YOUR life... we are only discussing the VERY REAL repercussions of divorce on children... if the MLCer was in his right mind, he would NEVER risk subjecting his own children to the abandonment issues he is running from!!! I only hope and pray that coming FULL CIRCLE will allow those issues to be addressed and not ENDURED for a lifetime.....
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Lao Tsu

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In regards to children..... kids DON'T CARE what their parent's problems, needs or wants are...... KIDS WANT TO COME FIRST, NO MATTER WHAT!!! They do NOT want their parents to divorce, though they might give "permission" to the abused or unhappy spouse under the circumstance.... that's what I did when my parents wanted to divorce.... but in reality, they all want their parents to SACRIFICE and BE TOGETHER AT ANY COST for THEM!!! Because kids can ALSO intellectualize... and "understand" their parents' dilemma.... but in their heart of hearts, divorces tears their world apart..... leaving a trail of abandonment issues as well as the inability to TRUST a love partner..... as well as the inability to MIRROR a healthy relationship!!!
Kids do not "get over divorce" because "they are resilient..."..... the SURVIVE divorce because they have NO VOICE. The damage of divorce is for lifetime. Now, that doesn't mean I think all couples should stay together no matter what.... but, I do UNDERSTAND the true price of divorce on children..... it is actually NOT worse for them to survive an MLC and come out the other side with their family intact... the reward is the same as for the LBS... their FAMILY STRUCTURE is protected for life.... Holidays are spent with their parents... TOGETHER.... not with some OP they didn't grow up with. I'm fortunate that both of my fathers (natural and adoptive) remarried women I like and get along with... BUT, they are NOT my "family".... where the Mother goes, so the children go and the relationship with the Father is NEVER the same.
For the record, my kids remind me of my initial promise to them which was that I would do my absolute best to keep our family together, against all odds, regardless of Dad's antics......Also for the record.... I love him, but without kids, I would have been long gone.... that's just my nature. I'm glad I've stayed, because I see the end of the tunnel..... it's a tragedy that so many months and years have been lost to MLC. By the way, I'm not lecturing at all.... just addressing your question regarding children... My generation was the first generation of no-fault divorce and the fallout is ugly.

I just want to quote this so that when I gather my posts for archiving in MS Word, this is included. I love it--you said it so well.
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Yep, some people are serial cheaters. And in the 60’s, in a deep catholic souther European country, with no divorce, well… My MIL is/was deep catholic and from a small hinterland village. By then things were not like now, let alone in such place, and she grow in what we can call an old fashioned way.

Your husband could be a womanizer that it was not acceptable to separate or divorce him. But, when they meet, I don’t think she had any idea he was a womanizer. No way she could know. He lived in the big city, was from a good family, younger than her. She married at 30, too late for a woman her age. And there was no dating like we know it. They would never be alone until they married. FIL would only see her at her family house or at the village ball, always with her mother or father near by.

And, well, it was expected of a man to have other women. The wife was for having children. However, at first, they got along well, went abroad on their honeymoon, went to exhibitions. First kid come (SIL) and thing remained good. Second kid was on its way and FIL went back to his single days and never stopped. He had been having affairs since by husband was inside his mum’s belly. A thing that has always deeply hurt husband. Husband totally despised is dad because of it and what come after. MIL both withdrew into herself  and played the social part of a woman of that social circle: husband does as he wants since he is a man. No questioning it.

My FIL was never remorseful. And, cammon, he had been a cheater since his son was on his mum’s belly. FIL never left MIL or the kids with any financial problem. Always provided for them, even after divorce. But the situation, especially when a primary and permanent (until a couple of years ago) OW come along, husband was devastated. Of course husband would had prefer FIL to have done more for the marriage but FIL wanted OW better. FIL was living between OW and MIL. And everyone had to walk on eggshells because of FIL. Everyone but me that did not fear or care less about upsetting “the great man”. I was always civil but pretty much ignored him.

My FIL left years before MIL agreed to the divorce and moved in full time with permanent OW (of course he cheated on OW a million times), when the kids were already in their 20’s.

But is was tough. Having dad escaping Christmas, not attending kids birthdays, not going on holidays with them and saying he had to work when everyone, kids included, knew he was going to meet OW.

Once, when I already dated husband, we were very young, 20 maybe, we had went to the movies and we meet FIL with OW downtown. Husband was livid, did not said a word. I said hello. OW asked husband how he was, was very sweet with him. Not a word from husband. FIL also never untold people that the kids were not his and OW. People though (except a chosen few) that FIL and OW were the kids parents. They had no idea MIL existed.

I would hit the roof with the whole thing and though MIL should divorce. When MIL finally did she confess me she regretted not had done much earlier but there was her mother, and her religion, and she used to thing she could not do it. She end up realising she had been wasting her life with FIL, being the good obedient wife.

MLC affairs are not the same as having a womanizer for a dad.

And, now, here we are, with husband being his dad, pretending OW2 is the wife and having no one knowing (or nearly no one) that he has a wife.

My husband was not happy with anything he had done prior to BD and until OW1 was no more. From then on I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think he is proud of himself. And worries a lot of what I think of him. He panics that I have a bad image of him. Wish for now I do. And he knows it.

So, I guess it is not easy becoming the thing your fear and despise the most: your cheating dad and beyond. I have no idea how one deals with it or heals from it. Husband has to heal from the past and from his own actions. Seems to much for a mere human being to bare.

Agree, if an MLCer was in its right mind would never risk subjecting is own children (and spouse) to such thing. But I truly don’t know how, in my husband’s case, he is going to deal with the whole mess. It has so much to process, to address, to get through… running sounds more appealing, I think… But don't think it will work forever.
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RCR could you write an introduction book to MLC and a companion book with more real-life examples, maybe some exercises? Seems like a lot of authors do that sort of thing.
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And we have also seen here on the board that female MLCers divorce pretty fast. It is normally the male ones who drag and drag and drag.

Just out of curiosity, why is this?  Why do some MLCers drag out divorce? Especially if they have been living with the OW.  At BD, my H said "You're going to make me wait the entire 2 years, aren't you?"  Here we are 27 months past BD and he's only used the "D" word once in the last 18 months and doesn't seem to be in a hurry.  This of course could change tomorrow!

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H2H,

I don't know....about the female vs. the male divorce thing.  I believe that most divorces are filed by women (do you guys ever take care of anything?   ;) - Only kidding.

My H is doing the same thing....we are 9 months post divorce filing...and I've not heard a thing about it since January.....the 10th to be exact.

Are women more decisive?  Or do women feel that they truly don't have their "space" unless they are divorced?

I wonder this myself.

limitless
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M -64,  ExH - 71 (57 at BD)
M - 33 years (did the last 3 years count?)
D - 34, D -30, S - 30
BD 5/29/2010, Ran away from home - 8/15/2010,
Found out about affair - 2/11
H asks for divorce - 8/11
H filed for divorce 10/11
Announced "new" girlfriend 12/12 (3rd OW)
Divorce final 06/13 (I decided to finish it)
Dumped OW#3 9/15 (After 4 years)
Married OW#1 2019
OW#1 filed for divorce from ExH 9/24

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Are women more decisive?  Or do women feel that they truly don't have their "space" unless they are divorced?

Both, I think.

Even when the male MLCer files, like mine, they manage to drag their own filling for ever. Most non MLC divorces are filled by women. Maybe it means, and contrary to what is said, we are less inclined to forgive of accept any fault?...

Oh, there is another thing, I have never went back to any boyfriend or husband but boyfriends and husband tried to come back. Husband was not ready at all, I was not going to take him back.

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« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 08:39:15 PM by AnneJ »
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AnneJ..... your description of your MIL and her sitch I think is very common for her era... VERY COMMON!!! No one to tell her otherwise, either!! Her husband was a womanizer because SOCIETY enabled it, as well!!! There was NO SHAME was there??? Both MIl and ow accepted that his way was the way it would be..... with MLC, it is different, but LOOKS the same in many ways.... it LOOKS like the LBS is accepting of the affair.... far from the truth though!!! LBS only accept that they have NO CONTROL ove the MLCer or the affair and that it is NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR FOR THEIR SPOUSE.

I firmly believe that the MLCer BECOMES very much like the parent who harmed them the most.... my husband's Dad was a womanizer.. his OWN father abandoned his family and started a new family in another state... vanisher!!! Complete abandonment.... so FIL abandoned his own kids for his alcoholism and women.... in the meantime, while still married to my MIL, he got a hotel maid pregnant and embezzled from his employer to cover it up.... my MIL's father was a lawyer and kept him from jail... MIL tried to adopt the baby..... talk about forgiveness!!! BUT, FIL kept womanizing..... it was easier than accepting the DECENCY he didn't feel he deserved...

Now, MY husband is doing a similar thing...... affair is with a hotel maid, even though he NEVER KNEW ABOUT HIS DAD'S AFFAIR!!!! The universe is very tricky!!! He only found out about his half brother from his Dad's affair THIS YEAR!!! Cannot connect the dots and wonder "WTH???" Point is..... the issues the drive the MLCer very oftern turn them into THE ISSUE!!!

As for why women seem to divorce right away in MLC..... I can say that when I thought I was falling in love with my now husband, I quickly sought a divorce from my husband at the time, though he had done nothing wrong.... I strongly felt that you should finish one "r" before starting another.. even though the reality is that the NEW one was already in the works..... perhaps it's guilt.... a way to tell ourselves we are not cheating..... I've noticed that the male MLCers (when they talk) reveal that they "don't feel married" and I've heard this from my own husband..... even though, in the next moment, he is referring to me as his wife..... they're in a constant state of fear and confusion.... so, I believe that the MEN simply don't FEEL married, and don't need a divorce to prove it... Just my opinion.
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Lao Tsu

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Absolutely, LG, my MIL stich is very common for her age. I think so, FIL was a womanizer because society enabled it. Womanizers still exist and marry but now people don’t see it has a normal or acceptable thing. FIL OW (the permanent one) is much younger than MIL, but older than myself. Not sure how old she is, early to mid 50’s maybe…What is strange is that FIL OW is a highly cultured woman, an intellectual and a scholar. MIL was a stay at home wife. What on earth was a woman like FIL OW doing with a married man baffles me. She would had not have trouble having a man of her own. Why stay with a married man that keep cheating on her?... I have no idea.

Yes, what the LBS does during MIL may seem similar but I have never saw any LBS here packing her husband suitcase for the weekend or days spend with OW or ironing husband’s shirts when he was going to be with OW. None of us here shuts up or is scared to put her foot down. Our husbands want to have a life with OW? Well, go have it but we are not going to baby sit them. My MIL did it to FIL. I really hit the roof with the packing the suitcase and ironing the shirts when he was going to be with OW. MIL was his maid, OW the one taken to the theatre, receptions, cinema, you name it. It made no sense to me at all. But, I think many women my MIL age have done what she has.

Sadly, I think you may be right LG, the MLCer will become very the much the parent who have harmed them the most. Your FIl was way worst than mine. Mine did not abandon, in the sense of going away, nor has stop providing for them financially. If anything, at times he hyper-compensate with money. Women of your MIL and my MIL trying to adopt a baby their husband had with another woman was also very common. I think MLCers and womanizers don’t respect themselves so they run and run and run. Or try to use money or fancy presents instead.

OW1 could not be equivalent of FIL OW but OW2, in some things, can. No, she is not a scholar or highly educated but I call her my husband’s “Y”  (FIL OW). For the record, after FIL was finally divorced he lived a few years with OW and a couple of years ago or so they have separated. OW moved to a city near by, FIL to a non continental part of our country. I suspect FIL has a new woman, a younger one but that is just me guessing from some things in FIL Facebook.

How do you think men like my husband and yours, that had turned what they detested and had hurt them so much, and, then done it worst to us, can solve their crisis/issues, heal, reproach us (or let us go for good)? Will they ever be able to figure out what they have become and deal with it and all the loss and damage they caused? I know I would find it very hard to deal with and may prefer to keep clubbing or drinking. But a day will come when one has a glimpse of sobriety or sees what a wreck we have become.

Agree, one should end one relationship before starting another. May I ask how do you now look back to the time you were falling in love with your current husband? Do you think you weren’t fair with your first husband? How do you think your falling in love with your current husband while still married to your first one is different than our MLCers “falling in love” with OW/OM?

Again, you may be right, male MLCers mau not feel married while in MLC. Mine never said it like that, just that he “had left”. Meaning, he had left, what was the problem of having OW? Well… OW1 started months before he left and he never felt unmarried while he was at home. With OW2 I can get he no longer feels married. I don’t feel married so, I get it. But husband is the one who has been filing for divorce like there is no tomorrow, so it must be important for him to divorce, right? Probably not since he drags forever.

If they don’t feel married it should be irrelevant for them to be divorced but it seems to be the opposite. Also, it should not matter that we were free to do as we please. Yet, they don’t allow for it. Funny little scared and fearful creatures. Are they scared that, if we are divorced, we marry someone else and they are left to rotten with OW? Male MLCers seem to be too possessive for someone who does not feel married. Or is it because while remaining married they think they are in control of their wife and feel powerful?
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Are they scared that, if we are divorced, we marry someone else and they are left to rotten with OW? Male MLCers seem to be too possessive for someone who does not feel married. Or is it because while remaining married they think they are in control of their wife and feel powerful?
Interesting thoughts AnneJ
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LG, if I read your post correctly your H started out as an OM?  Off the subject but threw me for a loop.
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One day at a time.

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Are they scared that, if we are divorced, we marry someone else and they are left to rotten with OW? Male MLCers seem to be too possessive for someone who does not feel married. Or is it because while remaining married they think they are in control of their wife and feel powerful?
Interesting thoughts AnneJ

There is another possibility, they drag because that way they delay having to pay us. That is also a form of control, of course.
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