[hampc0cv]

Does this work for the spouses that have divorced you?  Do they ever come back after a divorce?

[LoveMeMyself]

Good question, Hamp.  I'd like to know that too.........being divorced already.  I guess if we had all the answers we wouldn't be here needing each other.  It's just a "wait and see" game at this point.  Hang in there.

[Shantilly Lace]

Yep on my thread just this past week I heard 2 stories. One work mates H was terrible to her slep around with male or female. They are divorced but he still wants to reconcile wih her 8 years later.

The second were apart 13 years married to others but came back together and have been for 30 or so years. It does happen just not in OUR time but in time

[stayed]

I agree Shantilly, I have been amazed at how many couples DIVORCED and reconciled years later.

Just no way of knowing... I wouldn't put my life on HOLD though.  Just get with your lives.  Let it go where it leads you.  Just no telling what you might find.

hugs Stayed...

[StillStanding]

I posted this in the FB group during the Great Migration, so I'm adding it here:

[..]For me, the Stockdale Paradox carries an important lesson in personal development, a lesson in faith and honesty: Never doubt that you can achieve your goals, no matter how lofty they may be and no matter how many critics and naysayers you may have. But at the same time, always take honest stock of your current situation. Don’t lie to yourself for fear of short-term embarrassment or discomfort, because such deception will only come back to defeat you in the end. [...]

http://www.ndoherty.com/stockdale-paradox/

[StillStanding]

Back after the bomb drop, I bought and paid for a couple of counseling sessions with one of Michele Weiner-Davis' "divorce busting" coaches. This is some of the advice she gave me; I got this before the possibility of MLC came up, but I think much of this is still relevant...

1. Let the dust settle. Stop saying "I love you", don't discuss the marriage or separation or divorce. If she brings it up, try to change the subject as best as you can.

2. Don't try to capture her, try to attract her. This is probably not the best advice when it comes to MLCing spouses, but the important thing to take away from this is that marriages, regardless of the vows and promises you made to each other, are voluntary. No one wants to feel pressured or trapped. The example the coach used was dating: when people are first dating and getting to know each other, they don't spend a lot of time discussing commitment or what their future plans are; they enjoy the time they spend together. And the main reason they enjoy being together is because they find the other person interesting!

3. Three attitudes you need to convey. This isn't about talk, this is action. We all know that talk is cheap, and we regularly counsel people do not believe anything of what they say and only half of what they do. She will respond more to what you actually do than what you say. The three attitudes you need to convey are:

* "I get it." This is not something that is going to blow over; she has real issues she's dealing with. Maybe you didn't pay enough attention to her, maybe you let other things get in the way. If so, now is the time to apologize for that.
* "You need breathing room." Again, no pursuing or R talk! This is an opportunity for the two of you to figure things out.
* "I am working on myself." This is where the GAL and 180s are necessary. She should see that there are things you can (and are!) doing to be healthier, happier, etc.

4. Your new attitude. You need to be confident, you need to be casual, and you should strive to be consistently friendly when possible. If you need to "act as if", then do it. She shouldn't be able to reach you whenever she wants; maybe your phone is turned off for a couple of hours because you went to see a movie with a buddy. If she texts or emails you? I'm sorry, I didn't have my phone on me so I didn't see them. This also leads back into point 2; if you are doing things and happy, you are more attractive than someone who is sitting around the house moping.

[Silmarion]

Thanks to all those who took time to research and post resources here.

I'm reading everything!

Sil x

[StillStanding]

Michele Weiner-Davis posts a new copy of her "Marriage Map":

http://www.divorcebusting.com/blog/the-marriage-map-stop-divorce/

[unbroken]

Retrouvaille has a similar philospohy


Retrouvaille's 4 Stages of Marriage

There are 4 Stages of Marriage: (1) Romance, (2) Disillusionment, (3) Misery, and (4) Awakening. Due to the high divorce rate many couples never make it to the 4th Stage of Awakening.

Romance
Most are familiar with the 1st Stage of Romance. Life was so wonderful we couldn't stand to live without the other. Our thoughts often turned to the other when we were not with them. We had fallen in love and knew that this was the person we wanted to spend the rest of our life with. Little differences between us were cute and endearing.

Disillusionment
At some point those little differences started to annoy us. We felt bothered by some of those same things that may have been cute a short time earlier. The self-talk in the back of our mind started wondering why our spouse couldn't be more like us. We had entered into the 2nd Stage of Marriage, the Disillusionment Stage. During the Disillusionment Stage we start to realize that our spouse is not the perfect person that we had envisioned him or her to be. Sometimes, especially if our Romance Stage had been particularly intense, we are hurt deeply by this Disillusionment. We realize that the expectations we had of the perfect marriage were not going to happen. For some this realization is too heart wrenching and they give up on the marriage and divorce during this 2nd Stage of Disillusionment.

Misery
Many people stick with and try to work through their problems during Disillusionment. They seek the counsel of family, friends, clergy and marriage family counselors. Some of these people find the key they are looking for from these resources. Many others continue to struggle and their troubles worsen. Often the marriage deteriorates more deeply due to drug, alcohol or other addictions. Sometimes a third party relationship in the form of extramarital affairs result. As the couple finds themselves in this 3rd Stage of Marriage they know they have entered the Misery Stage.

The Misery Stage is where many couples find themselves considering a marriage separation or divorce. When children are involved this 3rd Stage of Misery is particularly difficult on them. Regardless of whether the couple stays together in misery or divorce the children often believe it is their fault regardless of assurances to the contrary. The effects of divorce on a child cannot be over emphasized. The pain is so intense during the Misery Stage that it is common to only want it to STOP. Much like the pain of a toothache that consumes your whole being you cannot seem to think of anything else besides stopping the pain. One spouse may be pushing hard for the divorce while the other wants to stop divorce.

If the couple ends the marriage at this point and remarry other partners they are more likely to experience the effects of divorce with their second or third spouse.

Awakening
Most people whose marriages end in divorce are not bad people. Rather, they are often people who never learned the proper tools for a happy marriage. This is where Retrouvaille (pronounced re-tro-vi with a long i.) can help. Teams of couples who have experienced all 4 Stages of Marriage present the Retrouvaille program. Instead of giving up they found solutions. In Retrouvaille they learned the tools they needed to live a happy marriage. They learned that marriage does not follow the Romance and Happily Ever After formula portrayed in literature and media. Rather, they learn that there are certain learnable skills, attitudes and tools that they can use to deal with the inevitable problems of the real world.

These skills, attitudes and tools give them what they need to move from the 3rd Stage of Misery into the 4th Stage of Awakening.

Whether you are in the Disillusionment Stage grieving the loss of that magical Romance or if you have moved firmly into the Misery Stage Retrouvaille can give you the marriage help you need to rebuild your marriage. Many tens of thousands of couples have turned their marriages around by giving this program a chance.

[Stillpraying]

I've read another similar explanation of the stages of Marriage on the 'Marriage Missions' website too.

It's great stuff.  Stuff we LBS'ers are receptive to.

What gets me is we know this now, but our MLC'ers (well mine anyway) are NOT receptive to learning or hearing anything like this.  And ultimately, it takes two.  I would have thought that H would have learnt this after having already been married once before.  But I was naive then.

Well, I'll take it into any future relationship I have because I don't want to be left at stage 2 again!