[xyzcf]

Previous thread:
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10761.0

10 years ago I rescued a 2 1/2 year old labrador retriever. Her name was Kaci. She was the first thing that made me smile in 1 1/2 years.

She and I bonded immediately. She came into my life in the darkest of times and sometimes it wasn't fair to this creature, that I was so sad, so unavailable...she was always at my side. If I got up to leave the room, she would quickly find me.

When she was 5, she became blind but she adjusted to that as well.

She had suffered from dementia for the past 1 1/2 years so she has been a challenge at times....she slept a lot but continued to be at my feet (and under my feet) and perked up at meal times. She would stand in front of the pantry door until I gave her a treat.

This morning, I said my final goodbye to my girl. The last 24 hours, she deteriorated and it was time but I did not want it to be time.

This gentle creature...who I loved. Who gave me so much love, a huge emptiness resides inside. This is going to be hard for time to come.

[forthetrees]

I am soo sorry. That is a whole body pain and brings on sobs. She came into your life and saved you at a low point and you stuck around to help here at her low point. The loyalty of a pooch is awe inspiring. I´ll be thinking of you as you deal with the loss of Kaci and the new routines. Hugs,
FTT

[Nas]

I'm sorry, the loss of a pet is so incredibly painful.  My thoughts are with you.

[Ready2Transform]

Biggest of big hugs, xyz. I had to make that decision last Friday for my shepherd/chow boy. We'd just celebrated his 15th birthday the Monday before, but I knew we were on borrowed time. He had a slew of issues we'd worked around for a long time, but he'd started having daily seizures, so there was no way to continue. I still have cats, but even they are a little beside themselves that the routine has changed and their best buddy isn't in his normal cuddle spots.    There is truly nothing like the love and loyalty of a dog.

[Milly]

I'm so sorry, xy. I know what it's like to lose a doggie we adore. I try to think of the positive, the fact you had your wonderful and loving Kaci at a time you desperately needed to be loved unconditionally. Big hugs x

[Curiosity]

Xyz, I can’t tell you how sorry I am. We lost our almost 19 year old kitty last year, about a month before BD, and it was heartbreaking even though we knew it was coming. Much as we love the remainder of the feline family, when you have a special bond like that, there is an emptiness that lingers. My heart goes out to you.

[Thunder]

Dogs are taken from us far too soon. We can only hope we made their lives happy for the short time we were blessed with their presence. I know for sure you did, xyzcf. My condolences during an awful time.

{{{Big Warm Hug}}}

[Believer]

Xy,
I’m so sorry for the loss of Kaci.
I’m grateful that she was there for you and I’m quite sure she felt very loved by you as well.

Hugs,
Believer

[Trustandlove]

I'm so sorry, xy -- It's horrible.  I'm glad she was there for you, I'm glad you were there for her.  Losses like this when we've already had so much loss seem even harder to bear.  Thinking of you.

[Evermore]

This is very sad news XY. I’m currently watching my old staffie girl roll around on the lawn. I was thinking just before I read your update, that it will be awful when it’s time did her to go. Sending big hugs.

[Songanddance]

So sorry to hear your news XY. 

In November I said goodbye to my beloved 12.5 yr old springer who I had adored since he was 8 weeks old.  He was my salvation, my rock, my companion when all the MLC mess happened.  He loved unconditionally and it broke my heart to say goodbye even though it was the right thing to do.

Even now I cry and grieve because the house has such a different energy without him. 

Be kind to yourself, cry as much as you want.  When you have had such friendship and love from a pet; it is very hard and we all think that we should recover quicker. 

What I found helpful was to buy a digital photoframe and over the following weeks I downloaded from my family all their pics of my boy and then spent time creating a slideshow to put into this digital frame.  Every night we still light a candle, we kiss his collar that sits on his beautiful willow box of ashes and sometimes the light from the photoframe is the only light in the room.

It has helped. 

I am thinking of you XY and sending you a massive hug across the pond.

[barbiedoll]

I am just heartbroken for you XY  and just so sorry to read about your doggie-friend Kaci.  I know you have been struggling and this loss will test you yet again...and for that , there just are no words.  The loss of a pet is yet again another monumental change during times that are far from normal and I just send you the warmest hug of care and understanding . I am so sorry.

[xyzcf]

Even now I cry and grieve because the house has such a different energy without him.

This is a community of people who care deeply about one another, about our families and about our pets. Every message from each of you touches my heart and in a way, it is a really beautiful thing isn't it? Out of the ashes of broken dreams, comes these friendships...for indeed, you were one of the first people that I spoke to yesterday about my loss.....and I share in the loss of all your precious pets.

The house is very quiet. I am grateful that I have had my second vaccine, hoping that soon the border will be opened to Canada so I can go home.

I spoke to the man last night who took me to meet Kaci in her foster home 10 years ago. He said to me that he had done this many times, but that he had been struck by the bond that he saw happening before his eyes between Kaci and I, and the smile on my face. He said he knew that this bond was very special.

Your messages to me, the way you each personally know a bit of me and who I am and that comes through in your messages...hard for me to express right now what I feel but this is real....and your thoughts and telling me your stories about your pets, matters a great deal.

Thank you so much and God bless you and our families and our precious animals. xo

Song, I have had 3 labs and a cat. I am going to gather my favourite pictures of them and have an artist paint a picture of the 3 dogs playing together and the cat "supervising". Each one them was special and each were at various times of my life, that I can assoicate their being with where my life was at the time. Thank you for your suggestion as well.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Be kind to yourself, cry as much as you want.  When you have had such friendship and love from a pet; it is very hard and we all think that we should recover quicker.

Such a true statement and I know how much Kaci's presence in your life helped your recovery- a true friend every day.

Just know you are in my prayers.

Hugs and more hugs,

((((Ready))))

[Treasur]

I am so sorry for your loss, xyz, and so grateful that you and Kaci had each other bc it sounds like the support was mutual. Do be especially kind with yourself though bc it seems to me that new losses trigger echoes of our old Ines. Hugs.

[Anon]

Aww, xyz,,, so sorry to hear this.  We dread the day when it’s their time and no matter how old they are, it’s always too soon for them to go.  You are in my thoughts.

[OldPilot]

This morning, I said my final goodbye to my girl. The last 24 hours, she deteriorated and it was time but I did not want it to be time.

This gentle creature...who I loved. Who gave me so much love, a huge emptiness resides inside. This is going to be hard for time to come.

My condolences on Kaci - what a sweet animal.

I hope the weather improves and you can play some golf,
that will help.

[xyzcf]

Thanks again to all of you. As has been imagined before, we need an island for all of us and our pets to share this incredible gift of caring.

Yes OP, after the massive storm we are supposed to get this weekend, golf will definitely help.
In a week, I will be protected from COVID since I have received both vaccinations. I will rejoin the mahjong group I stopped participating in. I shall have some friends who are also vaccinated over to my home. I shall garden and am starting online bridge lessons. I can allow myself the thought of walking off a plane and hugging my daughter and SIL.
I miss Kaci enormously but the grief is a gentle one. I have thought about this, the intensity of the grief I still feel about the destruction of my family, that is piercing grief. My dear Kaci never did anything to hurt me. The pain is vastly difference and I am glad that I am aware of that.

[FaithWalker]

Is Kaci your only pet XY?  I'm so sorry to hear about her loss.  Be gentle with yourself.

I'm glad that soon you will be able to have some more interaction.  I get my 2nd shot next Friday.  At some point I do want to come back over the mountains and get together with you and our other LBS friend again. 

[xyzcf]

Yes, she was my only pet. I was cleaning her stuff to give away to a shelter and wanted to keep a few momentos and realized that I was keeping everything that I would need for a future dog......and although tempting, I need time. I want to be able to see my family (although I am not hopeful about the borders reopening based upon an article I read yesterday) and do some traveling. I found it hard to find someone to take care of her and never wanted to leave for more than a week....anyway, I can't replace her you know.

Yes, let us meet again! That would be wonderful!!!!!

[FaithWalker]

Xy, I totally understand.  We lost our beloved yorkie a few years ago and the kids are constantly trying to get me to get a new dog.  I definitely don't feel like I can replace my old beloved one, and, like you, I want to travel, and the kids are almost out of the house.  It wouldn't make sense.

[in it]

So sorry XY your beloved furbaby had the best life with you. I hope you get to spend some time with your family.

[xyzcf]

My sister died this morning. She had been in hospital since Saturday/Sunday morning actually. She had been sick for many many years. My family, all my family live in Canada and I am not "allowed" into my homeland  unless I quarantine for 14 days....so I could not go and say goodbye, and I cannot be with my family to grieve this very big loss.

I do understand why the restrictions are there..even though I am vaccinated, they cannot make "exceptions"..but she was my big sister, the one who I talked to at least 5 times a week, the one who supported me over the last 12 years...and now there is just my brother and I...and that's hard for me to understand...we once were a family of 5 and now we are just two.

I am numb/sad/heartbroken and I just want to be with my family.

I last saw her in June 2019....almost 2 years ago....I last saw my daughter in February 2020.

I feel lost, empty, unsure if the future will ever turn "better" yet I know it will.

I just wanted to let you know...we are a "family" of sorts and have shared much of our lives outside of MLC as well.

[Milly]

Dear xy, I'm so very sorry. I'm sorry you have lost your big sister who you would speak to 5 times a week. I'm sorry you weren't able to see her. I'm sorry you feel so alone. Your loss would be hard enough without this difficult moment we are all living through making you particularly isolated. I'm glad you came here to tell us. We are here for each other, and although we've never met, we have a bond. Sending you a very loving embrace. x

[Curiosity]

xyz, I am so very sorry for your loss. It has been a time of far too much loss, with the pandemic isolation and that particular isolation of MLC that too many people don’t really understand. Having a support system like your sister was for you, that is such a valuable, essential part of surviving the roller coaster of early MLC and I am sure her support went a long way toward improving the quality of your life even after the shock was no longer so acute.

I know that there is no substitute for the physical presence of your loved ones around you, and I am truly sorry that the times we’re living in have kept that from you. Please know that my thoughts are with you, as I’m sure is true for many here, and I hope there is at least some measure of comfort to be found in that knowledge.

[Believer]

xyzcf,

I’m so deeply sorry for your loss. She was clearly so loved, valued and respected by you.
I’m also sorry you aren’t able to be home with your family due to the restrictions. It intensifies an already difficult time in your life.

Big hugs,
Believer

[Trustandlove]

I'm so sorry, xy.  This loss on top of all the other losses is a huge cross to bear.  And intensified when you are denied being able to go to be with your family, to process the grief together.  I know what family means to you.  Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Songanddance]

Oh XY - I am so sorry to hear this and can only send you the hugest hugs from across the pond. 

It is heartbreaking to lose a sibling but to lose one who you cannot see/visit/cherish and more importantly cannot share the grieving with the family; that grief must be immense and painful.

We on here are a family for the most bizarre reasons and so we are here for you - take care and allow yourself time to grieve and time to remember all the wonderful times you had as a family.

[Treasur]

I am so sorry for your new loss, xyz. May God hold you close through this terrible time. You are in my prayers.

[Thunder]

Oh xyzcf I am very saddened to hear about your sisters passing.  I know this has to be very painful for you.  I have sisters.

Sending love and prayers to you and your family.  I hope you can all get together soon.

{{Big warm hug}}

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am so sorry for your loss. I think it is especially profound because you are trapped and kept from others during this time of loss. I find the travel restrictions just as crazy as you. I can fly to Florida and spend Spring break with thousands of unmasked and unvaccinated people for no reason other than "I need a break" and you can't fly to Canada to attend your sister's funeral even though you are vaccinated and data shows that they work. The logic behind all of this is absurd.

Sending you my prayers,

(((((Ready))))

[FaithWalker]

I'm so sorry that you have lost your dear sister, XY.  And very sad that you cannot go to Canada for the funeral.

My heart breaks for your isolation.  I too am vaccinated and just a little ways across the State.  Perhaps as soon as I own this car and have it insured in my name I can come across the Mountains to visit with you again.  The weather getting nicer will be a big help.

[xyzcf]

That would be lovely Faith or I can take a trip over the pass. My dog passed 2 weeks ago so there isn't anything to tie me down here...just the Canadian border restrictions.

Never ever ever would I have thought that I could not be with my family when something like this happens. I am ok, my sister was very sick for such a long time, but I just want to see my family. That is the support that I need and I have no idea when that will be. Canada does not make it's own vaccines so they have a very limited supply and the numbers are not good.

I am so used to being "alone" that I don't even know if I have it in me anymore to have a relationship with anyone. That scares me a bit.

Thanks to everyone with your care and kindness. My therapist wanted me to see her this week which I will do....and probably for a bit although a part of me thinks really? I still need to see a therapist? I stated seeing her because of the isolation I was feeling during COVID...at least now I feel safer to do a few things with other people...butI still try and follow the CDC guidelines which  make sense to me....if we continue to stay away from large indoor gatherings...enough people will be vaccinated that we can put a lid on this.

I don't know, sometimes I feel very discouraged. 

I know I feel really tired and "foggy". Today I had to make a stop at three different stores to get what I needed...when I got to my car, I realized I had forgotten to get milk. YIKES!!!!

Calamity assured me tonight that with grief, it is normal to be forgetful and to be careful driving.

Happy Easter everyone!

[Treasur]

Calamity assured me tonight that with grief, it is normal to be forgetful and to be careful driving.

She's right, it is. Strange how helpful it can be sometimes to know that we are normal...or normal for a not so normal situation......

Funnily enough, I read an article yesterday about Anna Freud's work on grief...'About Losing and Being Lost' https://www.ccc.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2021-01/Anna%20Freud%2C%20About%20Losing%20and%20Being%20Lost.pdf
It was something she observed as a pattern with children and then realised was also a pattern with grieving adults.

[stillbaffled]

XY - sending my condolences on the loss of your sister.  It is so hard to not be with family.  My heart goes out to you.

 

[xyzcf]

One of my prayers has always been for the restoration of our family. These past 4 days were a wonderful time as a family together  to celebrate our daughter's birthday and Thanksgiving.

I know that not everyone wants to have this type of relationship with their MLCer, but I do want to tell others who may feel the way I do, that it is possible.

My own healing has allowed me to be at peace with what happened in the past.  That is also what I wanted. To be able to be with him without it tearing me apart. Indeed, I quite enjoy being with him. He seems to feel the same.

But it is different. I am not his wife. We can chat freely about many things, we cook together, the kitchen dancing that was always so much fun is still there, he can tease me about things that were always something he would do. And we laugh and tell stories from our  family times.

And in many many ways, there are still many ties between us, and love.

We will also be together at Christmas. I prefer this to splitting the limited time with our daughter.

I look at these times as two people who have a very long history together and a daughter. Who are still a family..that will always be.

I am grateful, I continue to pray for "us" and try as much as possible to accept God's plan for my life.

He does seem to be well over his "crisis". It is interesting to see the changes that he has gone through over so many years. He is more like the man we knew before his crisis.

It was nice. I think there will be similar times ahead because I allow it. I don't have to,I choose to. It's the best thing in my mind for all of us.

[Hoosier Daddy]

One of my prayers has always been for the restoration of our family. These past 4 days were a wonderful time as a family together  to celebrate our daughter's birthday and Thanksgiving.

I know that not everyone wants to have this type of relationship with their MLCer, but I do want to tell others who may feel the way I do, that it is possible.

My own healing has allowed me to be at peace with what happened in the past.  That is also what I wanted. To be able to be with him without it tearing me apart. Indeed, I quite enjoy being with him. He seems to feel the same.

But it is different. I am not his wife. We can chat freely about many things, we cook together, the kitchen dancing that was always so much fun is still there, he can tease me about things that were always something he would do. And we laugh and tell stories from our  family times.

And in many many ways, there are still many ties between us, and love.

We will also be together at Christmas. I prefer this to splitting the limited time with our daughter.

I look at these times as two people who have a very long history together and a daughter. Who are still a family..that will always be.

I am grateful, I continue to pray for "us" and try as much as possible to accept God's plan for my life.

He does seem to be well over his "crisis". It is interesting to see the changes that he has gone through over so many years. He is more like the man we knew before his crisis.

It was nice. I think there will be similar times ahead because I allow it. I don't have to,I choose to. It's the best thing in my mind for all of us.

I Think it is a beautiful thing that you foster this relationship.  I hope to have the opportunity to do the same in the future.

HD

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thanks XY for sharing this.  I agree with HD that this is indeed a beautiful thing and I have similar views on how I would like my family to be in the future even after the D is finalized.   Not quite sure how I will feel when the D is finalized but I do pray for my family.   My W and I have at least been working together to do what's best for our kids and  I hope that continues.

I also pray for W that she becomes closer to God again.  Our marriage cannot be restored without God being at the center of her life.

Glad you enjoyed the past 4 days and hope that you have a great time at Christmas too.

HF

[dogwalker]

Thats a wonderful post XY.

It made me happy to read and reminded me of how my relationship/reconnection started with my ExW nearly 2 years ago now. We enjoyed each others company and rekindled our old "team work" relationship with cooking, gardening, family meals and birthdays and recently holidays now covid restriction are lifting

We haven't made that step to live full time together but we share our lives from 2 different homes. Maybe one day we will share a home together  full time and TBH Im not sure we will but for now, we enjoy what we have. I see a different person to who BD me 5times the old person from years ago shows thro but a more mature independent person also shines. One that accepts her body is older and needs to exercise in moderation rather the 2 times a day 7 days a week. Most outsiders didnt understand us but slowly they are accepting

All the very best XY

DW.   

[FaithWalker]

XY, I am thrilled that you had a lovely Holiday with your family and that you get to spend time with your D again.

So wonderful!

[Curiosity]

Xyz, I am so happy for you! Finding peace and your best path forward… that’s all we can hope for. Each of our paths will be unique, but if it’s the right one for you, that’s what matters.

[MadLuv]

xyzcf-
I was so hoping to see this update on your time together. I think it’s fantastic and I feel I would be more than willing for this type of relationship as well in the future once respect and friendship can be returned fairly to me. Sounds like much fun was to be had and so wonderful for your adult daughter to be able to enjoy both her parents together. And who knows what the future holds for your relationship. Without expectations, but still friendship anything can evolve.

[OldPilot]

One of my prayers has always been for the restoration of our family. These past 4 days were a wonderful time as a family together  to celebrate our daughter's birthday and Thanksgiving.

I know that not everyone wants to have this type of relationship with their MLCer, but I do want to tell others who may feel the way I do, that it is possible.

My own healing has allowed me to be at peace with what happened in the past.  That is also what I wanted. To be able to be with him without it tearing me apart. Indeed, I quite enjoy being with him. He seems to feel the same.

But it is different. I am not his wife. We can chat freely about many things, we cook together, the kitchen dancing that was always so much fun is still there, he can tease me about things that were always something he would do. And we laugh and tell stories from our  family times.

And in many many ways, there are still many ties between us, and love.

We will also be together at Christmas. I prefer this to splitting the limited time with our daughter.

I look at these times as two people who have a very long history together and a daughter. Who are still a family..that will always be.

I am grateful, I continue to pray for "us" and try as much as possible to accept God's plan for my life.

He does seem to be well over his "crisis". It is interesting to see the changes that he has gone through over so many years. He is more like the man we knew before his crisis.

It was nice. I think there will be similar times ahead because I allow it. I don't have to,I choose to. It's the best thing in my mind for all of us.

Actually this sounds similar to what happens with my ex-w
We now share grandchildren and other family events from time to time.

Everything is cordial and diplomatic as if we were strangers meeting on the street.

I am glad you are at peace XYZCF - that is a testament to your hard work in these matters.

[Ready2Transform]

He does seem to be well over his "crisis". It is interesting to see the changes that he has gone through over so many years. He is more like the man we knew before his crisis.

Actually this sounds similar to what happens with my ex-w
We now share grandchildren and other family events from time to time.

This has been on my mind since reading this last week, so I'm gonna risk prying a little more. I've 'known' both of you and your stories for almost a decade now, and I think seeing two examples like this here are good for a lot of us.

When do you each think your spouses actually resolved the crisis? Can you look back now and see a point in the timeline where there was a change that really did mark that the crisis was over? Did they ever exhibit the depressive, reintegration stage to you, or was it so subtle that you just know they're done, but it's not obvious when or how?

I have zero expectation that my xH will ever resemble who he used to be to me (or that I'll ever talk to him again to know that), but it doesn't stop me from being fascinated by this process.

[OldPilot]

When do you each think your spouses actually resolved the crisis? Can you look back now and see a point in the timeline where there was a change that really did mark that the crisis was over? Did they ever exhibit the depressive, reintegration stage to you, or was it so subtle that you just know they're done, but it's not obvious when or how?

Its a good question although I am not sure I have the answer.

I am not convinced that she is done however she does not have anything to do with my life other than my children and grandchildren.
She has done some weird things that would lead me to believe that she is still not done.
I have never gotten an apology.
She is still not nice to me, of course she is not nice to our children either but they seem to detach from her when that happens so they don't let her get away with too much.

I guess my comment is more about how I am at peace with it all, and also xyzcf seems the same.

[xyzcf]

Quote from: Ready2Transform on October 26, 2021, 03:48:27 PM
When do you each think your spouses actually resolved the crisis? Can you look back now and see a point in the timeline where there was a change that really did mark that the crisis was over? Did they ever exhibit the depressive, reintegration stage to you, or was it so subtle that you just know they're done, but it's not obvious when or how?

OP responded :Its a good question although I am not sure I have the answer.

I will agree with OP, I am not sure I really have an answer.

I have limited contact with him but we do get together occasionally and he texts me with jokes and comments about my favourite football team.

I think he is happily settled into the life he wants. He doesn't seem angry and he is in regular contact with our daughter.

His life is not at all the life that I have, we live very differently and that is no surprise really because I have always been more a country than a city girl.

It's been a gradual transition, can't say how long because I don't see him that often but I do feel he is not in "crisis".

I enjoy the times we do see one another. As OP put it so well, I am at peace with it all now.

[Ready2Transform]

I thank you both for your answers. "Peace" is no small feat.

[xyzcf]

Good New Year's Eve morning.

My home is safe, I am safe. I live 3 miles from the evacuation border line of the fire that consumed 600 homes, 35,000 people evacuated. I have friends who live in the center of the fire storm...winds up to 115 MPH. I live in the same type of subdivision that backs onto a golf course, the same type of geography that a 10 min drive away was being consumed by this inferno. I packed my "important" documents just in case, an open suitcase ready to hold some clothes and pictures...trying to think...what is important to me to  take from my home?

I stayed in the home we shared after BD, this is my "safe place" until it wasn't.

As we all know, life is unpredictable. Life can be very cruel.

I think about the naysayers that deny that climate change is a problem (in my mind they are also the same anti vaxers, anti mask wearers). I remember someone telling me this summer, when we had weeks and weeks of smoke from the forest fires, not able to see the beautiful mountains, that forest fires are really important ways for nature to "clear out the deadwood" and that it was not climate change that was responsible but was what nature is supposed to do. It's all really difficult for me this morning.

I am grateful for the first responders who risked their lives to keep mine safe.

I digress.

I had just returned on Wednesday from 9 days with my family in a lovely Caribbean Island. As you know, I remain open to Mr. xyzcf being a part of my life and my family's life. Even before this devastating fire, I was grateful for many reasons that we had this time together.

We are not reconciled and there is no discussion at all concerning our past marriage. We do see one another and it is "comfortable" when we are together.

I just turned 67 and am very aware that life is going by quicker than I would like. COVID and the isolation has been difficult to be alone, without a family member close by, without a partner to share in the day to day life.  I envy my friends and cringe when they would say how "annoying" it was to be with their spouse 24/7.

Wishing everyone on HS healing, a road to a peaceful life, acceptance of what is, some joy and appreciation for all the blessings you do have.

Stay safe, be at peace.

[Thunder]

OMG xyzcf, I forgot you are in CO.  Isn't Faith also?

My brother and his wife live in Arvada where they had over 100 mph winds.  Their son and family live in Boulder and did evacuate.  Their all safe but they don't know about his house yet.

Thank God there are no known deaths at this time.  They were on it very fast.
I'm so glad you are safe.
My prayers go out to all who lost their homes!

Yes Climate change is really doing a number out West, but I heard you are finally getting snow now.

Faith?  How are you?

[FaithWalker]

Sorry Thunder, missed this somehow.

I am on the West side of the State, closer to Utah.  So we watched in horror as this was happening, but I am over the Rocky mountains and about 4 hours and 200 miles away, so not anywhere close to this.  I have one brother in the area, and his home was outside the burn area by a few miles.  They went to Cali for the Holidays, and took their pup with them.

[Keep believing]

Hi All,
 its been  awhile since  I posted.  Its been over 7 years for me now. I never thought I would still be here.  I too have hoped for restoration of my family. I must be nuts because of all the things  ex h has done and said. He has been a horrible person in every way imaginable. He has been with ow for 7 years.  They had broken up in feb 2021 until july 2021. I thought this could be it.  See in feb h had the kids talk with his therapist (I think he went to one for a month) My kids told him they would never meet ow. I think thats when it ended for those few months. When h and ow were getting back together h basically yelled at me and told me he didnt care and that he would bring the ow to family parties and the kids need to grow up.  Any how, I dont think that happened over the past holidays. H was so kind for those few months with me and we talked alot. Simple talk nothing serious. Of course when h and ow got back together h blocked me. Im not blocked any more but this game he plays im over. I will not play it any more.
But actually my question to you all is , h will not come by my house. H used to to maybe fix something every now and then but now he wont? Why do you think that is?  I dont know if it is ow or if h doesnt like the feelings he gets when he is here. 
When my d was going back to college , h was taking her . All he kept asking was to make sure her mattress was outside hence he wouldnt have to come in the house.  I thought this was strange. He must have asked 4 times to make sure the mattress was outside .
I did meet h a couple weeks ago for about a half hour  to talk with him about our d issues.  H just looks ragged.  Such old clothes that  are too small.
But I know I looked good.  Have not talked to him since.  As we were walking away he tells me to text him.  Nah , I dont think so. I would love to chat with him but I am not going to be his friend.
I myself am doing good. I am very independent and have a good job.  Good family and friends. I still have that missing piece.  H

[UrsaMajor]

its been  awhile since  I posted.  Its been over 7 years for me now. I never thought I would still be here.
<...snip...>
But actually my question to you all is , h will not come by my house. H used to to maybe fix something every now and then but now he wont? Why do you think that is?  I don't know if it is ow or if h doesn't like the feelings he gets when he is here.
<...snip...>

I am going to answer your question with a question....

Who cares? Does it really matter why he he won't come over to fix things or come inside?

We could all speculate why, if it is the OW, if he has crushing guilt, if he is just uncomfortable with the ghosts of life past, or any one of 1000 other possible scenarios but, at the end of the day, 1) it is ALL just speculation, 2) it is nothing that you (or anyone else except xH can control, 3) he resigned from that position when he left his home and family to take up with OW, and 4) at the end of the day, what matters is that you are able to get the stuff taken care of without his "help" or interference....

His outburst about bringing the OW to family parties just serves to show that he stil has his head planted firmly up his ... fog....

[xyzcf]

My guess would be that the OW may have insisted that he does not go inside your house or fix anything for you, but that is only a guess.

I think I used to believe that MLC would end and he would become more his normal self again. I see this with my own husband and others, even many years later, they are still quite odd.

There are times they reach out, times they seem "kinder" and then the door shuts again and we are left wondering once more. We get very good at continuing on with our lives.

I myself am doing good. I am very independent and have a good job.  Good family and friends. I still have that missing piece.  H

COVID isolation has made it harder for me. But still, life is good and I am glad to hear it is good for you as well.

[Trustandlove]

My own guess is that he wants to solidify his "I'm not coming home" stance.  Again, I say that from my own experience; my H had periods of coming frequently, then not at all, usually when he was in some way making the point about not coming back.  I don't mean that he was saying so outright, but these kinds of things happened when the children expressed their dislike of the situation, for example. 

Mine would do things like that after telling one of the kids that they "needed to grow up" and accept the situation; he probably felt guilty on the inside (mine has said that he did), and this is a way of lashing out somewhat.

It doesn't really make any difference in the scheme of things, but that is my guess. 

I, too am glad that you are well! 

[CallanG]

Hi All

I hope that you are all well . I had a dream about this forum last night so it seemed like a good time to pop in a say hello .

It has been quite a while since I posted , I think it was 2019 just after I lost my Father and Dog . and I first posted my story way back in 2013 . I cant actully believe that it was 9 years ago !!

After losing Dog I swore I would not get another one and then some asked me to re home a young female . I made the mistake of looking at the video of her and she moved in quite quickly after that . Madam is very much at home after spending the first 3 years of her life in a kennel and makes my partner and I laugh so much , she has her Daddy wrapped round her paw .

I see some names that I recognise and that sadly some of them are no longer with us .

The past couple of years have been very strange with Covid and I feel very thankful that my friends and family have remained healthy . I said it last year but hopefully this year will be better for us all .

Take care

CallanG
 


 

[xyzcf]

This is my own experience but it might be of interest to someone else.

There is often the question of how long before the LBSer is healed? I sometimes feel that some LBSers are in a hurry to say "I'm totally over this" in a relatively short timeframe.

I have just returned from a trip to the UK and Scotland, the war in the Ukraine, the upcoming first year anniversary of the deaths of my dog and my sister, the isolation from COVID and for some time I have been thinking that it would benefit me to have a session or two with my therapist. She knows how to deal with trauma, and helped me a great deal.

I found this therapist in 2017. I last saw her a year ago after the death of my sister (when I was denied entry into Canada to say goodbye to her or attend her funeral  ) .

When I went to schedule an appointment, I "discovered" that over time, since 2017 (which would have been 8 years after BD) I have seen this therapist 54 times. I had no idea.

And that is fine. Initially I required pretty regular visits with her and then resumed therapy when I was hit with a divorce via text message 9 years after BD, and again last year dealing with the grief of the loss of my sister and Kaci and the isolation of COVID, not being able to see my daughter for 17 months was very very difficult for me.

I am sharing this here, as Acorn would say, as an example of one. Perhaps to reassure others that this process can take a very long time and that the trauma can affect us, possibly on some level for the rest of our lives.

Before BD, I felt that I was a pretty normal functioning individual with lots of strengths and coping mechanisms....I had gone for therapy initially for about 18 months and then not again until 8 years after BD. (with a very different therapeutic approach the second time that dealt with PTSD.)

I am still a bit surprised that I went for 54 sessions, indeed, did I block some of that out??? I shall ask her when I see her.

Spring is here, gardening, golfing, less COVID restrictions, more travel but also fear of the war happening in Ukraine.

I write often here about acceptance. I value that I don't judge myself as to why this has taken so long. I do know that prior to COVID I seemed to be enjoying life quite a bit.....and so it goes.

Wishing you all a lovely springtime, hoping for peace in our world.

[Ready2Transform]

My BD was almost 11 years ago, and this week I am having my first conference with my "resilience coach". It's something that was on the list of mental and physical care programs from my health care provider, and I decided to take the leap. I picked from the list of coaches the one with a background in neuroscience. Despite recommending many times over the years that LBSs should consider reaching out to a professional, this is actually the first time I've taken my own advice. It's one of the patterns I aim to break. So 54 visits in, XYZ? I look forward to my own number reaching that! I see it as a win, that you have stayed committed to focusing on your own care and welcoming the accountability that an outside source can bring.

Will it be about my xH? In part, I'm sure. There was a domino effect that started for me 11 years ago. I was a stander for roughly half of that. Both sides of the coin hold their own setbacks and growth. Add in COVID, the legal challenges that came along the way personally with the divorce and subsequent bankruptcy, business challenges, political and world relations that had us all upside down for years, and the loss of loved ones...it left my once strong and determined mindset with some battle scars.

And grief is always an undercurrent.  Pets, friends, and people I took for granted would be with me for many more years. I bonded hard with my neighbors after BD, but the bulk of them were in their golden years, and I've just seen the last one pass away this past December. Somehow you're not expected to grieve so much when someone is in their 80s or 90s, but it's still very much a loss, and also a big life change when you are used to seeing them every day. My dad is my only family now, and I've started to feel a fear creeping in about that that I want to address more. I don't want to be afraid of building bonds. I want to think people can come into your life and stay. I know that there are aspects of the MLC experience that have built the neural pathways that are saying that to me.

So this is a continuing part of self-care and healing, and I agree with XYZ that though it won't always feel exactly the same as at the onset, there may be part of this that is always with us in some form. Like with childhood abuse, trauma from war, the loss of a child...you don't just zip it up one day and find yourself "done". But you can find hope in your future as you continue to adapt and grow.

Time is unique to all of us, but generally, I hope we are all making the most of it. Big hugs.

[Songanddance]

I think that healing is not a defined period of time.  Healing is also growth and so we can grow and heal without realising that we are doing it and yet we might not have what we call "closure" but we feel ok so perhaps closure was subliminal.

I have seen my T aka coach on and off since August 2013.  I saw her regularly for 18 months (18+ times) , I then topped up as I went through 2015 - 2017 (leaving my job etc) and have top up sessions with her everynow and then when I feel that I need what I call "re-ing" which could be "re-setting" "refreshing" etc.....

Healing for the LBS is subjective. Growing is subjective - the only thing to avoid is remaining stuck and understanding how easy it is to perpetuate current thinking or behaving which keeps you stuck.  Change is hard, growing is hard but I think that we have to understand that we grow for us and no-one else. We have only ourselves to live with. 

[xyzcf]

Happy Easter!

To all of you, to those you love, this is a day of hope. Hope that life holds promise and joy, hope that love triumphs over evil, hope for healing, hope for peace.

On this blessed day, I encourage all of you that in spite of all our pain, despite how difficult any holiday and special occasion can be we are fortunate to have one another and the understanding, care and concern that we show to one another...from all over the world and all walks of life.

Thank you to RCR for starting and maintaining this site which has been a life saver for so many of us.

I see in each one of you, this incredible spirit and ability to build your life, accept the loss of your beloved spouse and maintain your families.

I pray for all of us, our families, our wayward spouses, for peace in the world, the end of covid and that love remains with us in our hearts....

Peace to you all on this blessed day. Happy Easter, Happy Passover, Happy Ramadan. May there be peace in the world.

Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!

[Thunder]

Thank you, xyzcf!

Happy Easter to you and your family.   

[Lioness]

Hi old friends! For some reason, I logged in on the forum today, after more than 3.5 years away. I am so happy you guys are still around. I will be starting a new thread for a long overdue update. Happy Easter! Lioness xx

[Thunder]

Hi Lioness, good to hear from you again.
Yes we need an update.   

Happy Easter!

[gman242]

I just wanted to pop in and say keep up with the self growth and healing!

54 times xyzcf? That's to be applauded regardless if you can remember or not! I think it's easy to focus on taking one day at a time and lose count!

[Thundarr]

Greetings and Salutations, all.  Just wanted to say hi to all of my old friends and fellow survivors here and pass along my regards to all of the newer ones.  I hope everyone is doing well and wish all the wonderful mothers here, along with the fathers who are doing double-duty, a very Happy Mother's Day!!

[Ropeburn]

Hello ,
  Been a while trying to catch up on old timers threads .
 So good to see some moved on so inspired by you guys ,moving up on 7 yr bd here

[FaithWalker]

Good to hear from you RB.  I love it when OT's pop back in.  Did you update your thread?  I would love to hear how you've been and what you've been up to.     I'll go have a look and see.

[xyzcf]

As we have always done on HS, we record parts of our individual journeys here as it may be meaningful to someone else. It is also cathartic to do so, because others will understand perhaps better than our friends and family do.

Our family, Mr. xyzcf, our daughter and son in law just spent 4 days together. We have done this several times and we have a week booked in October together as well as Christmas back here, mainly in my home but we spent time at his as well.

Hero's Spouse and other MLC related material, my interpretation anyway, was that once the MLCer was through their crisis, they would realize what they had done and in my heart, they would want what they once threw away.

I do believe that does happen sometimes....but also that they come through their crisis, changed, and are not interested in the life or the partner they had before.

Like a snake that sheds it's skin, they leave behind the old for something very different.

In my case, from my own choices, we can actually enjoy times together and my prayer that my family would be reunited has materialized. I know another long timer who is away with her husband and two kids on vacation so I am not the only person who has found this middle ground.

Yes, there is a price to be paid. It is difficult for me. I don't know if it is difficult for him or not. It isn't difficult for our daughter although she is very aware that it's hard for me...and when she sees us laughing as we once did, I know she would like to see the parents she knew who once loved one another so very much.

Love doesn't disappear. I still have much love for him.

I have no expectations for "us". I will be sad the rest of today for I am alone again after such a delightful 4 days (and the anticipation of this time that we were going to have together). I cannot see my daughter unless I fly for 4 hours...so there is never any spontaneous meeting her ...it's all planned well in advance.

I am grateful. I am grateful that we can share these days. I am grateful that I can afford to board a plane if I wish to see her. I am grateful that I don't fall apart anymore or become distressed by his presence. I know that this would not work for many LBSers here.

As we so often write, each situation is different and we come into this mess with our own history, our own beliefs and I had to explore which ones I wanted to live with.....so although the price to my own peace is higher than I would like, I'm not sorry that I am willing to risk it.

The past, the memories are still a reality and I have never been able to forget them. For me, there is no logic to this, never was as I enjoyed life more with him than without....but obviously, that is not his view and I respect that we both want something diferrent.

[Treasur]

I think it is useful to share that there are different paths that LBS might choose, depending on their circumstances, so thank you for sharing this xyzcf.

Fwiw, it strikes me that it takes courage to accept something so different from what we want and find a way to work with it to create something good regardless.while being so clear-eyed about what it is and what it is not.

[OldPilot]

FWIW I think that any relationship we will have with our MLC'er after it is over would be a NEW relationship and need to be built from the ground up.

I think that is where you are at now xyzcf, building a new relationship.

The marriage that you had is over and if anything is to develop in the future a lot of hard work will need to happen first.

[Loyal]

To make a long story short his first bout of MLC came around 2009/2010 and back  againbut 100 times worse around 2014/2015 (if my memory is right). He was a monstering live in MLCer until April 2017 when he ghosted me. He found an OW immediately that happens to live less than 2 minutes walk from my apartment and is still together with her. Actually saw the two of them the Sunday before last whilst walking my doggie (whom he also ghosted) and he looked dreadful, the bit of hair he had on his head was white with a matching white beard, his eyes were still dead and he definitely didn`t make a happy impression. The laugh about it was the OW grabbed his hand immediately which was pathetic as "I don`t want him anymore"..
The reason  I´m posting is to let everyone here know, especially the Newbies, that life does go on without them and if you work on yourself it gets better and better and hopefully one day it will make click and you`ll be over them like it happened to me.
As my very wise best friend has always said to  me "Something positive always comes out of something negative" and it`s so true.

[limitless]

Hello All,

It's been a while since I posted on this forum.  I don't know where my last thread is (probably filed away and locked).

This year will be 13 years since BD (in May).  It all seems such a long time ago.

I read through this thread - and an earlier post asked the LBS when he/she thought that their MCLer's crisis had ended.  Hmmmm.  I don't know that my ex ever completed his crisis.  Maybe he did - when he sent me that long email of apology in 2018/19 for this actions in 2010 and beyond - just before he married OW#1.  I don't know.  I don't see him or hear from him.  If his crisis is over - he is a changed/different man.  Or, his crisis has just become a way of life.

The only things I know are the things that my kids share.

It is such a shame.  The kids.  I don't care how old they are at BD - or how old they are today.  They still suffer.  The relationships (or lack of relationships) that they have with their Dad....what can I say - it's just very sad. 

I am aware that he barely sees them....and when he does - he cannot connect with them.  My ex thinks that his relationship with our son is quite good.  My son just accepts his Dad as he is - and avoids him mostly.  The girls have a harder time.  My oldest - is angry/hurt by the lack of relationship and effort made by her Dad.  My youngest d - the same - except she will confront him. 

My younger D - recently had a heart to heart with her Dad.  She tires of his lack of involvement, interest, etc. in her life.  She told him that she needed him to be more involved with her....needed him to know more about her life....needed him to ask her questions about her life (instead of rambling on and on about himself all the time).  She shared with me the conversation that they had.  I asked if he explained why he didn't ask her about her life.  She replied - I don't care why he doesn't ask.  I want him to ask.  Simple enough.  Then, at dinner he went on again about himself and his life....his work....the shows he liked to watch on TV.  She stared at him.....Don't you want to ask me what I like to watch?  She sighed - telling me that she could see that it was going to be a process - trying to rebuild the relationship that was broken so very long ago.  They agreed to call and talk on the phone with each other weekly.  (He usually will only text).  I guess that's a start.

Also, something must have clicked as he then contacted our oldest d and has set up time for the two of them to have dinner together.  That's different.  He seems to be making an effort. 

He will be 70 years old this year.  I wonder if he realizes that he missed out on 13+ years of their lives?  Maybe he does - at this point?

I only know that my kids deserve better.  They deserve to have a Dad that they can rely on...talk to....be part of their lives.  Hopefully - he has it in him to stick with it.  I wish that for them.

As for me....I retired a year ago (early)....and I would say that for those of you who can - I would highly recommend it.  I don't miss the grind of work.  I like it that everyday is Saturday now....except for Sunday - Sunday is Sunday.  I have ongoing dates with my friends for lunches, mani/pedi, massages, and such.  I'm a member of a local club - where I am part of a middle aged woman's dance group.  We have a choreographer - who teaches us a new routine each year.  I bought myself a bike - and ride on the beach path (at least each week). 

I did some traveling last year - Paris, Italy, Cincinnati, Wisconsin - and a few trips to Vegas.  I plan to do more traveling this year.  I have my black kitty - Freddie (named after Freddie Mercury).  No significant other. 

Life is good.

It's very difficult to imagine myself being married to my Ex.  In the rear view mirror - I would say it's best that our relationship ended.  I wish it could have been under different circumstances...we don't get to chose what wrapping paper our gift arrives in.  And, we don't even have to acknowledge that it was a gift.  But, it was.  It was the gift of freedom.  I only wish that i could re-gift it for my kids - but I can't.

For those of you who are currently suffering and trying to make sense of everything - I am so very sorry that you are going through this.  Unfortunately, there is no skipping - you have to go through it.  If I could wish anything for you - I would wish that you come to the conclusion (sooner vs. later) that life is precious and it is to be enjoyed.  The longer you wallow in your sadness....it is just wasted time.  You can find joy - regardless of what your significant other decides to do with his/her life.

Take care,

L

[UrsaMajor]

Hi Limitless,

Long time, no read!

MLC'ers seem to have a common issue with being able to see past the end of their noses (it's all about  ME ME ME ME ME) and to relate to others, especially their kids. They put an amazing amount of faith in the "Kids are resilient" nonsense and expect that the kids will be just fine with the MLC'er being absent in their lives or totally so self-absorbed (or both) and that is simply just not the case.

Yes, some may (like your S) just accept that the situation is the way it is and avoid the Mid-Lifer. Others confront them, others still have a hard time and stop putting in any effort (and justifiably so - If it hurts to stick a barbecue fork up your nose, stop sticking the barbecue fork up your nose, right?)

Congratulations on early retirement! After my MLCxW did her number on both of our retirement accounts in her D (she got hit worse than I did), early retirement is not in the cards for me... In theory, I can retire in about 7 years at 67 but we'll see how that goes...

Glad to read that your life is on track and you are enjoying it!

[xyzcf]

You can find joy - regardless of what your significant other decides to do with his/her life.

Ah Limitless, you have always been so wise!

I have seen some of your pictures of your travels and dance group. "Retirement" gives us the opportunity to explore so many different things that we didn't have time for before...I am amazed at how busy I am!

I hope that your children continue to connect with their father. That has always been important to me but not all kids and not all MLCers can manage to do that.

COVID, the economy, wars, some health issues ...so many things have taught me to live each day as fully as possible because as we know so well  it can all be gone in a flash.

If your travels bring you up my way stop by.....always room for you and any friends you are traveling with.

[Songanddance]

Limitless - so good to hear from you.

Everything you wrote about the broken relationship with your children and your XH really resonated.  My S will never have a good R with his Dad, he wants so little to do with him.  It is incredibly sad that the MLCer chose self over children and their needs and their dreams and hopes.

I too can vouch for early retirement although I have turned mine into my own freelance business and the beauty is that it is all on my terms. If I don't want to do something I don't have to. I have the luxury of saying NO.

Keep living, keeep dancing and keep in touch!

[Trustandlove]

Hi, L, nice to hear from you!

What you said about children resonates with me as well; it really is sad.  Mine were small when this started, they are now in their mid-20s but the effects are long-reaching.  All 3 struggle in one way or another, it's affected their self-esteem, their own relationships, their outlook on life.  We can say that "kids are resilient" all we want, but I don't think they are.   They continue to need me to be the rock, probably more than many others their age. 

Overall they are doing well; they have all graduated from university, all have good jobs, have good friends, have lives.  But this casts a long shadow.

As to my MLCer; I haven't now seen him for something like 6 years; he sees the children very rarely.  One son just avoids, has the occasional superficial conversation; the other does meet him now and again for a short time but always comes back disappointed, saying "father not being a father", my daughter has probably suffered most, as how her father treats her (and me) has affected her view of how men treat women in general.  She so needs him, but he just isn't there, and indeed has been quite nasty at times.  She went something like 3 years without seeing him at one point, it's been over a  year since the last time now. 

One son so doesn't want to be like him, that he expects unrealistic things of himself.  He will get through this, but it's not easy. 

All have tried to say something over the years, they have given up.

As to his crisis; I have no idea what he is like right, but from what I hear (or see the odd photo somewhere) it seems that his crisis has become a way of life, as you say.  I can't say that I like what little I hear/see. 

But on some level I will admit that I still miss him, I miss the person that was.  My children do as well, although they don't remember much any more, which is also sad. 

My life is also now "normal" -- many joys, normal ups and downs, not much drama, which is good.  Retirement not yet on the horizon, but I'm planning new things to do this year which keeps me going!

I'm glad you have been able to retire and enjoy the next phase of life!

[limitless]

Thanks for all those responses.  Good to hear from you all!

I sometimes wonder if my Ex and my relationship has turned my kids off relationships and marriage.  I know that this new generation isn’t getting married early (like I did) but none of my kids have a significant other - and none is urgent for marriage. 

I hate to think that this is caused by their parents’ story.

I just wish the best for them and, when and if they choose a mate, they will make good choices. 

L

[UrsaMajor]

I sometimes wonder if my Ex and my relationship has turned my kids off relationships and marriage.  I know that this new generation isn’t getting married early (like I did) but none of my kids have a significant other - and none is urgent for marriage. 

I hate to think that this is caused by their parents’ story.

I just wish the best for them and, when and if they choose a mate, they will make good choices. 

Not sure if it is strictly MLC-related but I do have the feeling that they are making their decisions, at least partially, based on their experiences as kids.... My partners kids (S33, D22, S19) are all pretty ... well, let's just say "selective"  in their choice of partners (especially D22) and, if it doesn't fit, they are not afraid to end it and start over. None of them are married and none of them is considering it at the time either...

D22 is currently in a relationship with a fellow physics student who is a really nice guy and who treats her well. Both D22 and her mom (my partner) have said that D22's BF is very similar in many ways to me so  I guess that might be a good thing

S19 is too busy getting his trade school done to really consider a relationship and S33 is on a journey of introspection and getting himself together after ending a short-lived relationship.

[Songanddance]

I sometimes wonder if my Ex and my relationship has turned my kids off relationships and marriage.  I know that this new generation isn’t getting married early (like I did) but none of my kids have a significant other - and none is urgent for marriage

Agree - but then marriage isn't the be all and end all of life.  My oldest D (then 30) married in 2017 and divorced in 2018 because her spouse just "became a different person" and she realised she'd been in love with the idea of marriage and settling down and sweeping all problems under the carpet.  She also realised at the wedding itself that 90% of the friends that attended were his and not hers.  At the wedding!
Now she has worked on herself, she has met a wonderful young man who also believes in self work, mindset and growth and is highly successful in his own field of work. The two of them together are two independently minded individuals who have a very common bond and absolute respect for each other.  They are getting married later this year.
My other D is a single mum and co -parents well with my GD's dad and for the last 3 years has been seeing another man.  She kept it quiet for 2 years not because she didn't want us to know but she only saw him once a fortnight during those 2 years out of choice.  She just isn't interested in  settling down - and she has also started a fabulous self growth journey so a serious relationship with a view to commitment is not for her.  He has 3 children from his previous marriage and his EX is a piece of work (narcissistic, petulant and always brings the children into any argument she has with him) He walked away after she became verbally and emotionally abusive.  My D has made it very clear to him that he has to work on himself before he could ever be ready to have an R with her.

My S believes he sounds like H  anytime he behaves or uses phrases like H used to.  My S has re-written history so much that he believes H abused him both physically and emotionally from a toddler onwards.... I know this isn't true - I just know it.  H adored S so much but sadly S has taught himself the viewpoint that for H to abandon his family when he was a teenager meant that H never loved him and always treated him badly. 
S is also working on himself and is very clear that he has no intention of having a relationship with anyone because he thinks he will destroy them - he wants to heal and he wants to "grow up" his words but until then relationships are off the table.

I really doubt that any of this would have happened if H and I had been more open, honest and whole during our marriage before BD.  If I had learned not to be a people pleaser and conflict avoider....If H had learned to face his teenage trauma ....if, If IF!

So whilst I am sad that my children were messed up, I'm glad that they became courageous enough to learn about their own flaws and human frailties and that they, like me are always learning and growing.  As for H - he's still stuck and probably always will be. 

[OldPilot]

I sometimes wonder if my Ex and my relationship has turned my kids off relationships and marriage.  I know that this new generation isn’t getting married early (like I did) but none of my kids have a significant other - and none is urgent for marriage. 

Your first post was excellent and wise as always.

As far as this one - I thought that I would agree but then  both of my children have married and have given me grandchildren.

So the thing I pray for is that they can stay married.
As we all know that can be a very difficult job and is not a straight and easy path.

[Mitzpah]

Hi everyone!

I hope you are all well, I was attracted to this discussion due to Limitless's observations on how all this has affected the children... I really think it does - my children have had difficulties in their relationships over time. My eldest son recently had a momentaneous break up due to misbehavior on his part - and she discovered in the exact same way I did, which was particularly painful for me. He came home for a couple of weeks and we talked some things over without me getting too involved. I encouraged them to work it out themselves and assured both of them of my love, but that my son needed to take responsibility for his acts. Interestingly, I was so upset at the whole situation that I reached out to his father and he was similarly affected. When they sorted things out, they came to me and told me - of course, I was very happy that they had managed to come to terms and found a way to move forward together - I again reached out to his father expressing my hope that our son would stay the path now and his response was: "he'd better!!! I will make sure he does!"

My daughter is very wary of committing herself to a relationship and she has been hurt frequently. Currently she is in a relationship with someone in Ireland, except they live on opposite sides of Ireland, maybe that is why it works!

It has been 12 years now - yet I still hope and pray for complete restoration - he still lives with OW and her children (I think they live there). He spends Christmas day with us and it is almost like old times, except he goes at the end of the day. I often send pictures of the dog to him - he never initiates communication nowadays, however, he is generally cordial and will ask after my mother (who is living with me) when I send him the pictures.

It is a peaceful life, no strife or arguments. I have a lot to do with my mother living with me, she is an invalid and confined to a wheelchair, armchair and bed - we have 24 hr care - a full time maid. I work full time and rarely have any free time - I continue to be involved with my church community and my nieces live near us at my mother's former house.

I would very much like my husband to come home, I miss someone having my back, I miss the easy intimacy, I miss married life.

I have recently taken in a young dog, in addition to the elderly couple of dogs I inherited from my husband! It is a rescued French Bulldog - he is about 10 months old and a great companion to me - he likes cuddles and follows me around everywhere. The boxer female is a little jealous but because he is a male, she tolerates him The other lady dog doesn't like him very much and has  had "words" with him on occasions 
I can take him out with me, he walks on a leash very well and now they allow small dogs in most places  like malls and even supermarkets. Everybody stops to talk to him and he loves the attention.

I miss you all, life is very busy for me at the moment, not much fun, but very busy and God is good to me.

[Slow Fade]

H adored S so much but sadly S has taught himself the viewpoint that for H to abandon his family when he was a teenager meant that H never loved him and always treated him badly.

This was my S's experience as well. I don't know that he will ever get over it enough to have a "normal" relationship with his father. I often want to ask H, "was it worth it in the moment?" H has lost so much because of his actions.

I really doubt that any of this would have happened if H and I had been more open, honest and whole during our marriage before BD.  If I had learned not to be a people pleaser and conflict avoider....If H had learned to face his teenage trauma ....if, If IF!

Yes to this as well. Rings so true for me. So many similarities....

I miss you all, life is very busy for me at the moment, not much fun, but very busy and God is good to me

Good to talk with you Mitzpah. God is good, All the time! I love that you have dogs. And the Frenchie sounds adorable. My last dog passed last summer and I'm dogless for the first time in my life.  It feels weird. It feels alone. It still hurts. We lost 3 dogs in 3 years due to old age. H bought me two charms for my bracelet; one was an angel dog and another was a kitty for all the pets I've lost in my life. I would like to have ALL the homeless doggies! 

[limitless]

Hello all,

I recently saw an MLCer that I've written about (on and off) in the past.  Thought you all would appreciate an update......

Quick background - He was a customer/owner of a business that my previous employer did business with.  Married the Owner's daughter....worked his way up in the company....3 kids and many years later - MLC hit. 

He started doing heavy body training - bike riding - etc.  He and his wife took a trip to Europe - where he followed the Tour de France route on his bike - while she traveled by car each day to meet with him in the evenings.  At the end of this trip - they returned to notify their employees (they were now the owners of the company - having bought his father in law out) - that they would be divorcing.

Ended up he was having an affair with the wife of one of their neighbors.  He "left" the company (still half owner) and went a few years - living with his new "love" and avoiding everyone.  Surprisingly enough - the new relationship didn't work out.  He slowly started returning to the company - showing up for events.  At the same time - I was going through the wreckage of my own relationship.  His ex wife - was now in a relationship with the ex husband of the woman that he ran away with.

I remember a Thanksgiving - where he was sitting with his buddies watching football - while ex-wife, kids and grandchildren were all celebrating together - he called my boss on the phone.  My boss said he sounded sad...lonely.  I remember one of his ex employees telling me that after he entered into the relationship with the OW - he wanted her to join him as he traveled the country - going to business meetings and events.  But, she had her own business - and never had the time/or wanted to be on his arm at events.  The ex employee told me...that it was funny.  Everything that he wanted from the new woman - he had already had with his ex-wife.

Of course, MLCers are never alone for long.  He was in another relationship quite quickly.  She wasn't a business woman...and could join him on his business adventures.  I met her once when we had cocktails.  I didn't want to like her - but she was friendly and nice enough. After a few years - they married.

Fast forward to this past weekend.  My old boss finally retired - and I attended the retirement party.  Also in attendance - Mr. MLC - minus wife.  I had heard that they were divorcing....after 7 years.  Not surprised.  We had a few moments to speak to each other.  He said some very interesting things.  He introduced me to his companion for the party (a male co-worker) - he said that after he left his very nice first wife that I was cool to him for a very long time.  I corrected him - no - I was cold.  He smiled.  Yes.  You were very cold.  And I understood why.  He said - I just want to let you know that Karma is a b!tc#.  And he smiled.  I replied....yes she is!

From what I hear from others - he is unhappy about his divorce - and cannot stop saying positive things about his first wife.  (I think she is still involved with the same partner - but not married).

How long did all of this take?  I'd say too long.....10 to 15 years. 

Is he through his crisis?  I don't know.  He seems to be aware of the mess he's made of his life...and he seems to have put the responsibility in the right place - HIM.

In the end - he spent 10 - 15 years searching for something he already had in his life.  A story often told.....

L

[Dragonfly33]

Thanks for sharing this story Limitless.

[Songanddance]

In the end - he spent 10 - 15 years searching for something he already had in his life.  A story often told.....

Quite and I see this in my H beginning to happen and odd that we are now 10 yrs on from BD.

[xyzcf]

From July 25, 2022:

Our family, Mr. xyzcf, our daughter and son in law just spent 4 days together. We have done this several times

aka Ground Hog Day! 

Fast forward one year:

We just spent 4 days together as a family, in my home and as always a "nice time was had by all"....

There are activities (this year a ghost walk tour, adventure golf as always and seeing the Barbie movie with my daughter)...always food and beverages, laughter, pictures taken.

In the past year, I was with him twice for surgeries, we spent Christmas together as a family in my home, rented an airbnb in Florida for a week and saw one another a few times, just the two of us.

No expectations. I have changed and so has he and our lives have gone in very different directions.

I have no idea really if he is "happy" or not, if he is still "running" or not...although I suspect he is ...but then again, his idea of a "good" life varies considerably from mine.

I don't want to know anything about his life...so I ignore him when he talks about his travels and his "friends" and I don't share anything about my personal life with him. Superficial fluff. Doesn't upset me like it once did.

I do find it tiring but then I am 14 years older than when he discarded me.

I have a couple of trips planned, a river cruise in Europe in the fall, a golf week in the spring. My life is BUSY. and peaceful..don't quite know how I found time to work full time before.

Our daughter sees his "strangeness" and I find it helpful when we occasionally compare notes about what we are witnessing..the person he was before and the person he has become. He is irritable but then many of my friends find their husbands irritable it seems.....I wonder if part of this is hormonal.

It is always fascinating to me to see him in person, even though there is always some pain...for the memories I have of our life together are very very sweet.

The one word I would use to describe him is "lost". If he ever finds himself, I will certainly let you know. Although after many years of HS stories, it does seem like some MLCers seldom find what they are looking for.

[MadLuv]

How interesting that you both don’t share what’s going on with each other. What do you talk about when alone? It does help when your kids can see what you see. It’s sad also, but he is at least involved and you all get together. Honestly that is what I hoped for, but I don’t see that now happening. So, your situation isn’t I am sure what you hoped for at the beginning, it also is not the worst case scenario either. 

I am sure it is still a little struggle to keep things superficial with no depths with someone you will always love and would love to share with. You do wonder as years and years go by what they tell themselves to keep going. What the hope is that they have or looking for. To me it seems more like they just exist. Not truly happy but not miserable either. IdK… just rambling

[OldPilot]

wonder if part of this is hormonal.

More like a lack of hormones.

I am the same age as he is and the lack of hormones is definitely noticeable in me.

Higher percentage of estrogen to testosterone make me cry more and have less stamina.
I certainly feel it!

[xyzcf]

A little Sunday morning musings about relationships.

I went to see the play Beautiful. The Carole King Musical yesterday. It was fabulous.

Carole and Gerry Goffin fell in love when they were quite young. She became pregnant and they married. Together, they wrote incredible music and became successful songwriters making good money and living "the life".

As far as I could tell, Carole was a good wife and mother. As far as I could tell, Carole did nothing "wrong".

Gerry started having an affair, he felt suffocated with his life with Carole. They separated and eventually he returned. Had another baby. At times Gerry would become very volatile. He started going out to night clubs, entered into another affair and they ended up divorcing. He did suffer from some type of mental illness and was hospitalized, perhaps bipolar was what I read.

Later, he told her he was sorry, he never meant to hurt her.

Somehow, on top of the emotional reaction that I have to her songs, there is some sort of parallel...some "mental health issue", that did not stop Gerry from his writing, a feeling of being suffocated and wanting to hang out in nightclubs and have other partners, not wanting the responsibilities that came with fatherhood and being a husband.

I often write about how I believe that MLC is due to some "dis-ease". That belief is what allows me to remain in contact and sometimes, to feel sorry for Mr. xyzcf. Somehow Gerry's actions, his affairs, his clubbing, substance use, turning his back on his family, his success as a writer, resonated with me of what we see in the MLCer.

I am guilty of thinking that true love never fails. Maybe I believed the fairy tales I read as a child. I think what struck me about this play, Carole did nothing "wrong". He left her anyway. As I read HS  posters asking "why", it reminds me that it is multifaceted and sometimes it is just the makeup of our spouse that has to leave because this is not what they want, not the life they want to live.

[MadLuv]

I love Carole king and have followed her career and life. I think there was a huge aspect of competition for him in the marriage. After he left her she rose to fame and he never achieved what he did with her.  I do think emotionally people with identity issues can be very emasculated in a relationship when one partner may be stronger, wiser etc. I definitely helped my husband rise in his job and he used every but of my knowledge until he made it and then he started resenting it. They don’t communicate that and you have no idea the relationship has changed. That’s how I see Carole Kings marriage. He couldn’t handle her being more talented. What a shame. She really loved him.

[limitless]

Beautiful was a wonderful play.  I knew that Carole King had written many songs, but had no idea the total volume and variety.  She is a true talent.  Gerry was a wonderful lyricist.  His words were poetry on a page.  But, he was deeply flawed.  A Peter Pan who never wanted to grow up.  Marriage, children, a wife - that was all too much for him.  So he ran away to younger - single women - to feel young.  And, yes, his success was working with her.  He was weak - he was flawed. 

While Carole did - nothing wrong - she went on to  make very poor choices in men.  Another husband was very abusive and I believe her daughters had to help her get away from him. 

What a talent she was/is.  What poor choices she made for herself.  If there was anything that she did wrong - it was to not realize her own value. 

Just my humble opinion.

L

[Curiosity]

Beautiful is truly an outstanding show - one of my very favorites. And I do think there’s a lot of Gerry’s story that seems like MLC. The description of it as “dis-ease” is very appropriate, I think. Initially the discussion here brought to mind another musical, Hamilton, and the lyric that “he will never be satisfied.” And although that lyric is true for Gerry as well, I do think they are very different scenarios. I do see a lot of what I think of as MLC in Gerry - underlying imposter syndrome, avoidance, shame… an unpredictable mix of feeling like they want or deserve more or better, while also feeling undeserving and insecure.