[Dragonfly33]

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12008.150

I just wanted to clear my part regarding the NC since some seemed to be offended by this topic. This is just my opinion and I mentioned this a couple of times already. Some people here can do well with continuing to have contact with their MLCer in a healthy way. What I mean about "healthy way" is that you are capable being caught up in a crazy rollercoaster of emotions yourself while being friendly/civil with the MLC spouse. And I totally respect that and in fact I am amazed how they do it because from my experience I couldn't do it. When my xH was still living with me, I was a total wreck psychologically and emotionally because I cycled a lot and I had a lot of expectations. When they weren't met, I was frustrated and or furious. And even at the start of my MLC journey, when I moved out from our home, my xh continued to contact me telling me how he loved me but also doing the opposite. That wasn't healthy for me because I was hurt a lot. I was constantly in the confused state and it affected my work and my mental health.
Some advised me to keep my distance and reduced contact which probably at that time was a good thing to do. However, I didn't listen. I followed my feelings. I was so enmeshed in the MLC situation that both me and my xh were actually in a limbo. After I kicked out my xh and he stopped contacting me (because he was busy with a new supply), after a long while of no contact, only then I realized what a crazy rollercoaster I was in. I slowly learned to accept that I couldn't control him nor the situation he was in. I started to accept that I couldn't influence his actions. He would do whatever he liked whether I was around or not because he felt entitled to do those things and he was just not capable of being a loyal and honest husband to me. When I got the card from him this year on my birthday, I knew I cannot be in contact with him still because even just that card, it sent me back into limbo land. It took me a month to find my composure again that I worked so hard to achieve.  So I know, for me personally, NC worked well. But that doesn't mean that everybody should do NC. Like what Treasur said, we should respect the decisions of others.

As for the newbies, I think they will find out along the way what works for them. I've had people telling me the same thing that NC is the only way when I was a newbie. And I didn't follow their advise. I continued my way until I realized in the end what worked for me best.

As for my xh, he wasn't a bad man. I don't think so. He had good qualities but he wasn't the God sent husband either. He did a number of things in the past that weren't very respectful towards me. And for me NC is drawing my boundaries that he crossed so many times. NC for me is respecting myself finally and making a point to my xh that I am not an option that he can always come back to when feels like dumping all his sadness that he himself caused. NC for me is valuing myself this time and not letting him treat me like the OW while being in a relationship with the OW. That's why I am not responding to my xh anymore. I think one very important factor to consider here is, we don't have children. I think with children, that would be very hard to do. If I had children, I don't think I could go total NC with my xh, for the sake of my kids. But since I don't have, I don't see it necessary anymore to stay in contact. But then again that's just me. It doesn't mean that this is a rule that everybody should follow after all, even if we have similar experience it's still different in some ways.

[UrsaMajor]

Attaching

[Dragonfly33]

 I also needed that non interaction to heal. That also can change. Although we are all seeking answers and guidance we are all adults and hopefully if you come to this forum you read enough to know that we all as individuals are not cookie cutter and nor will be our situation or MLCers and we can look at each LBS situation and stories and take what we need and connect where we can , but  in the end we all do what we want ( IMHO)

I can totally relate to this Madluv. In the end, nobody should be judged here whether or not they do NC. I think it's really very individual. Nobody should feel being invalidated for continue to have contact with their spouse while healing.

xycf
I can understand how you feel. I was there myself when my friends and family insisted on not having contact with my xh at the onset of the whole MLC show. They were almost upset and sometimes angry why I continued to answer him. But at the time I wasn't ready and I didn't know what was best for me. I was so blinded by having the idea of saving my marriage. And it was hard to heal for me. But that doesn't mean that what you are doing is wrong. I don't think there is a right or wrong way here to deal with our MLC spouse. I think we have different ways of dealing with it and what worked for some may not work for the others. Like what Madluv said, we are all adults here and we are all capable of sifting through what works for us.  Thank you for sharing your insights. It's important for me to see and read what others experienced. This forum helped me a lot by reading the stories of others and to understand that I was not crazy after all and others experience the same thing and not just me.

[Dragonfly33]

Thank you Ursa, I don't know until now how to do that.   

[Treasur]

And well done to you. Dragonfly, for being able to see and express your own needs and healthy boundaries so clearly. That’s a big step too, isn’t it?

Put simply, there are probably two main reasons for minimising contact imho. When the emotional and psychological effect is too much to live with easily. And when someone’s behaviour towards you is abusive, threatening or way past your own normal boundaries. In my case, at different times, it was both. Probably the first came first, then the second. And the second was more clear cut for me….call me picky, but it’s not ok with me for you to threaten my life or send the police to my door bc I ignore a text message (having ignored me for weeks/months at a time) and then want my emotional support or to ‘chat’ to me. Errrr, nope. And like you, Dragonfly, no kids either so that made some of my choices easier to act on.

I don’t have to hate someone, or be angry even, to say Errr, nope to what they bring to my table….I just have to have a clear sense of what is ok in my life and what is not, just as you described. If the other person doesn’t much like it or has the sadz, well how they process and deal with that effect of their own behaviour is their business, isn’t it? Mine is saying Errr, nope lol

[WHY]

• I think it depends on the type of person the LBS is.

• I think it depends on the type of MLCer you have.

I can tell you one thing.  Living with an at home low energy wallower is brutal.  I for one am a strong believer in that this type of contact is not good for the marriage you're trying to save.  So much damage is taking place on a daily basis and the wonderful marriage you once had becomes some sort of distant memory.  It takes it's toll on the LBS who may not even want to reconcile at this point given the damage.  And it's not good for the MLCer either because I believe they get stuck in the tunnel and make no progress in their journey.

I believe part of the no contact/limited contact path where the MLCer can be out on their own and left to their own devices, is actually a good thing for the LBS, the MLCer, and the marriage/reconciliation.

Now as for no contact vs limited contact.  Jury's still out.  I guess I'll find out.  But RCR says higher chance of recon with contact vs vanishers, so for those standing for their marriage, I would probably bet limited contact is better, IF you can deal with the emotional trauma. 

If you asked me 6 months ago, I was in the 100% no contact group because thats what I needed to heal.  Im now in a place of detachment where I dont think that's necessary anymore because Im standing for myself now vs my marriage.  I'll probably settle on bare bones contact which would hopefully be better for the MLCer to help them in their journey, as well as leaving a door open to a greater chance of recon if it ever comes to that.

HS has saved my life.  But Im in disagreement about the thesis here that we should hold on as long as we can, drag out any D proceedings etc.  The faster they get on their way the better (ONCE THE LBS IS READY FOR IT), and the faster they can hopefully find their way home (just one man's opinion).  This at home wallower stuff that persists for years is life force destroying.

[Dragonfly33]

I totally agree with what you said Treasur. If our mental health is at stake, it's work to take a distance even if it's not permanent. I am shocked that your xh did that to you. I thought all the time that he just vanished. And yet here you are, I don't sense any resentment from you, even after what he made you go through. That is my goal. I was always my xh's emotional support especially when he went through depression. He couldn't open up to his family about it or his friends. They know he had a burn out but I was the one who saw through the whole depression/burnout. And even after cheating on me, I was the one supporting him emotionally instead of him to me. I was easily sucked into his orbit. Since we stopped contacting each other, it helped me a lot to go back to myself, work on my own issues and feelings. And I think I am finally tired of being in that situation. The fear of living alone is slowly fading. Maybe for me NC worked because I was codependent. I was like a drug addict.

Maybe one day we will contact each other again, who knows. But for me it's not necessary anymore because we don't have kids and I decide not to stand anymore. It's just me.

[Treasur]

I’m not naturally given to anger about things I can’t control, Dragonfly. A lot of my friends wanted me to be angrier bc they thought it would be energising….I get that, it just seems not to be how I’m cut….but sadly there is a lot of truth in the idea I think that depression is anger turned inwards. Looking back, I think I had so many other overwhelming emotions - fear, grief, shock - that I didn’t have space for anger too lol.

But resentment? Oh I had loads of that! I stomped around like a resentful toddler for quite a few years lol. It all felt so unfair bc, well, it was. And it did seem as if the person paying the price - literally and figuratively - was me while my xh and ow tripped off into the sunset as I lay bleeding out in the rubble of my life. I was Rosie Resentment with go faster stripes ha ha.

Your comment made me muse this morning on when and why that changed. And indeed how much of that resentment is left. The best way I can describe it is that, a bit like you describe, there came a point when I just didn’t want to be that person anymore bc tbh it didn’t feel like me. Did those awful things happen? Yes. Were at least some of them done intentionally by my xh and others? Yes. Did I deserve them? No. But I think as I started to slowly heal, my normal factory settings came back, I suppose. Life is good but not always fair. Humans can be delightful and I like them, but some are mad, bad, selfish, stupid and dangerous. The rubble was real and whether my xh/ow were happy or not did not change or fix one bit of my pain or distress. And above all, I felt better the more I felt like me as opposed to PTSD me I suppose.

But I feel a lot of what my xh did to me and my family when life events made us at our most vulnerable was, for me, unforgivable. I don’t have to put much energy into that…it’s the same bit of my moral brain that judges those who abuse children or hurt animals. I don’t get it but I accept it happens and I find it unforgivable and inexcusable. I don’t have to hunt those kinds of folks down and beat them up, but they are not my kind of people. They are people imho to stay far away from if possible….and the reasons for their behaving that way do not change the effects of their actions on others. So, now, I suppose I think well, you do you….but I think your take on you makes you a poor quality and rather destructive kind of human, so I don’t think much of your choices and am happy to move away from them.

I spent 20 years or so of my life really liking and loving the person I used to know as my h. I had no idea that he was even capable of doing some of the things he did. Or how he feels about any of that. But I chose not to hate someone who I’d liked so very much bc that didn’t feel good to me either. I think tbh the resentment also eases the more they move into your rear view mirror, the more the damage becomes something that happened as opposed to something that is still happening, if that makes sense? The more you build and create and tidy up a life that has nothing of them in it, I suppose, where you own your own s$it good or bad. It stops being about them or what they did (eventually). I don’t feel much resentment now - I can be triggered lightly into moments of sadness or fear or loneliness or even a memory of the bewilderment. My life now is different and far from perfect. But I think I see my xh as someone who feels ok creating tremendous damage to others to get what he wanted - whatever that was - and I don’t like people like that. I see them as dangerous actually. And a bit stupid. As I’m writing this, I realise that my biggest residual feeling about my xh is a kind of distaste….on a bad day, that could almost be contempt which is not a wolf to feed so I fight that if it pops up lol. Imho he was foolish to throw away good solid love and respect as he did…and unforgivably cruel in how he did it. We both lost a lot but, now, I think he lost more, much more than I did. I suspect the karma bus really shows up by these kinds of folks having to live with the truth of what they choose to become….but that’s not my circus.  With time, truly, I think I see him now as a rather unpleasant stranger in a train lol. I don’t know what happened to him but it didn’t make him a better kind of human, whatever it was!

[MadLuv]

Treasur- I agree that they are not better and  for me in some small ways that validates that it really wasn’t me but him internally

Dragonfly- my daughter also went NC with her Dad 3 months ago. She recently said “ It's not that I'm not speaking to him out of anger. I'm not speaking to him because I do not want the type of relationship he is willing to offer” I think that sums it up. That doesn’t have to mean forever, but it can or it can mean for now.

[beyondblessed]

In my understanding and viewpoint, NC is for the benefit of the LBS and our own well being and stability.  It has absolutely NOTHING to do with ostracizing the MLC.  The terrible choices the MLC does has already done that.  If this is what helps you, DF, then do it.  This is all about you and your growth and moving forward.  His role in your present day life ended because of his choices.  Now you get to choose what's best for you and your path to peace and happiness.  Y

[toomanytearss]

I think many people us NC as some kind of tool to either punish the mlc’r or as a “hey look at me. Do you miss me now” kind of thing. I think it’s very much misunderstood.

I have in the past been NC for a long period of time. I chose that path for my well being. To be able to fully step away and work on healing myself.

I did this because everytime my phone went off I would shake uncontrollably. I was always on guard waiting on the next round of abuse from xh. Emotionally I could not take that anymore.

I was able to work on myself during that time of NC. That was what I needed. But that doesn’t mean every situation or every person needs to go that route. But some do. As I did.

I sometimes think we put so much emphasis on the mlc’r - what will make them return, how do we pave the way, how do we treat them so they don’t see us as the enemy - and of course for some people it’s how do we make them pay for the hurt they caused. And the list goes on.

Doing that we forget the emphasis should be on US. The LBS. what should we do for US. What is the best way for US to navigate through this. I believe we stay so enmeshed in all the hurt and pain and antics the mlc’r causes that it obscures our own needs and healing to a large extent. We get a front row seat to all the shenanigans and it’s not all easy to forgive or forget. And if affects us negatively.

Whatever contact we choose to have with the mlc’r should be what we as the LBS choose is best for our well being. Not to provoke a certain outcome with the mlc’r.

I have been several different forms of contact throughout this. Depending on where I am at and what I feel willing to deal with.

I am always cautious when someone is telling others that there is only one way to do something and that is their way. That is usually their hurt and choices from that being projected onto you.

I have made decisions and choices and been able to make progress not from people telling me what I should do but from people asking me questions and opening my thought process. Many of those people are in this group. Helping me to think things through and find my center before choosing a path that I feel is best for me.

There is no right way through all this. There is only what is the best way for me, the LBS to move forward and find happiness in this life right now.

[UrsaMajor]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And all the people said AMEN!

[Evermore]

I think many people us NC as some kind of tool to either punish the mlc’r or as a “hey look at me. Do you miss me now” kind of thing. I think it’s very much misunderstood.

I have in the past been NC for a long period of time. I chose that path for my well being. To be able to fully step away and work on healing myself.

I did this because everytime my phone went off I would shake uncontrollably. I was always on guard waiting on the next round of abuse from xh. Emotionally I could not take that anymore.

I was able to work on myself during that time of NC. That was what I needed. But that doesn’t mean every situation or every person needs to go that route. But some do. As I did.

I sometimes think we put so much emphasis on the mlc’r - what will make them return, how do we pave the way, how do we treat them so they don’t see us as the enemy - and of course for some people it’s how do we make them pay for the hurt they caused. And the list goes on.

Doing that we forget the emphasis should be on US. The LBS. what should we do for US. What is the best way for US to navigate through this. I believe we stay so enmeshed in all the hurt and pain and antics the mlc’r causes that it obscures our own needs and healing to a large extent. We get a front row seat to all the shenanigans and it’s not all easy to forgive or forget. And if affects us negatively.

Whatever contact we choose to have with the mlc’r should be what we as the LBS choose is best for our well being. Not to provoke a certain outcome with the mlc’r.

I have been several different forms of contact throughout this. Depending on where I am at and what I feel willing to deal with.

I am always cautious when someone is telling others that there is only one way to do something and that is their way. That is usually their hurt and choices from that being projected onto you.

I have made decisions and choices and been able to make progress not from people telling me what I should do but from people asking me questions and opening my thought process. Many of those people are in this group. Helping me to think things through and find my center before choosing a path that I feel is best for me.

There is no right way through all this. There is only what is the best way for me, the LBS to move forward and find happiness in this life right now.

Yes, allllll of this. Thank you TMT for putting it into far more coherent words than mine.

[Reinventing]

Agree with TMT. ]

It's all about the LBS and the LBS healing.

[Dragonfly33]

It's been a while since my last update here.  I think it's time to do an update. 

I am on a holiday right now in my home country. After 5 years of not being able to go home, finally I made it. It was a mix of different emotions, from feeling excited to be able to finally see my relatives and friends again to being nervous about how I was going to tell them about my D. On the way here, I prepared myself on how I was going to explain to them about my current status. I was in distress. It was my first time to travel back home without my exh. I was very emotional on the plane. I couldn't stop my tears. When I got home finally, and saw our bedroom in my mom's house I cried a lot. I considered this trip as the last hurdle in this MLC journey. Facing my relatives without him was very difficult. I was so scared they were going to ask about him, where he was. But I guess they already knew since my ex had been posting pics of the OW, the two of them kissing and being in the hotel. I thought I would be able to tell them that we were divorced but I didn't have the courage. It bothered me for many days that I couldn't find the courage to tell them. I then realized I just wasn't ready, and it's ok not to tell them the story. My relatives were very respectful not to ask me. And I am contented with how it went. For now, I am just not ready and it's ok. This holiday was such an emotional one. I went to those places where I spent holidays with my ex, this time I spent it with my mom and my nephew who was also here on holiday. There were times where I was in tears and I had to run to the bathroom so my mom would not see it. I think it's good to make new memories in those places without my ex. I survived it and I enjoyed the time I spent with my family.

As for my exh, I had to email him during my stay here as we had a joint account that I wanted to close. There was still money in it and it was decided during our D that the money went to me. However, I didn't really know the codes and access to this account, so I had to email him. This was the first time I contacted him after over a year of NC. I was very polite and very neutral too. He wrote back and told me he was very happy to hear from me. At the end of his email, he closed it by saying love and then his name. He gave me all the details I needed to access the account. We exchanged text messages for a bit as it didn't work right away and I needed his assistance.  I made sure I remained neutral and my replies were very short. He would send me heart emojis instead of likes on my replies. And that was it. I wasn't as disturbed as before back in April when I got a bday card from him. I just tried not to put any meaning to it anymore.

I enjoyed the rest of my stay here and tomorrow I'll be flying back to my second home. There is indeed life after D and I have become more independent now. I am back to my old self before the marriage. And I am happy I found myself again. So to all newbies here, things will get better. When I was a newbie, a lot of the veterans here told me the same thing. It was hard to believe life would get better at the time. But it does get better. I like the version of me now. I wish it didn't happen but maybe it happened for me to find myself again.

[Reinventing]

So to all newbies here, things will get better. When I was a newbie, a lot of the veterans here told me the same thing. It was hard to believe life would get better at the time.

DF, yes, detachment and a healthy sense of self is a great way to grow and respond to our lives being blown up.

[Treasur]

I hope you can see your own progress as clearly as we can, dear Dragonfly.
It was brave of you to make the trip, brave of you to let the cards fall where they fell emotionally, brave of you to find pleasure in all of those things regardless.

None of us come here believing that there is a life on the other side which can be good. Different maybe but still good, even better in some ways perhaps and certainly a whole ton better than those post BD days of distress and confusion. Which is why it can help so much to borrow a bit of belief and faith from chums here who have been where you were but are not there now. Just like your post will do for someone else reading along here.

[MadLuv]

So to all newbies here, things will get better. When I was a newbie, a lot of the veterans here told me the same thing. It was hard to believe life would get better at the time. But it does get better. I like the version of me now. I wish it didn't happen but maybe it happened for me to find myself again

when you start seeing yourself again you know you are going to be ok. You also realize just just how far you have come. It’s funny in a not so “funny” way how we wished this never happened, but we can see some positives from it in ourselves. It would be nice to see it come from a different source, but for me that little positive from so much pain is something I like to refer back to in my mind. It’s a much better “grass is greener on the other side “ view of reality for the LBS vs the MLCer  non reality “grass is greener “
Great update, DF!!

[beyondblessed]

Nice update, DF.  Yes, there is a life on the other side we can scarcely imagine, but it is there, nonetheless and ours for the taking.  We move and grow and change.  It's a beautiful thing.

[One day at a time]

Nice to hear from you DF!! I can relate to much of what you said about your experience at home. I also live away from my home country and those first visits can be a minefield full of triggers. I didn't have "the conversation" about my separation (divorce came long after) with everyone the first time around, I wasn't ready either. I have to admit, my close family helped spreading the news to some distant relatives.. I didn't see the need for me to have that conversation with everyone, by my second trip many people already knew so the subject wasn't brought up and it made it a lot easier for me.

When I was a newbie, a lot of the veterans here told me the same thing. It was hard to believe life would get better at the time. But it does get better. I like the version of me now. I wish it didn't happen but maybe it happened for me to find myself again.

Exactly how I see it too DF. I quite like the fact that I found myself again but I'm not very fond of how I got here. At the same time, I'm not sure I would be here if what happened, didn't happen... If that makes any sense!! 

[Dragonfly33]

I just wanted to reiterate that I am so thankful of the veterans here who served as my guiding star during this difficult process. Your insights helped me find that way when everything was so fuzzy during the time I was still in that limbo.I can never thank enough the people who patiently  listened to me here and continued to give their advise. You are all an angel in disguise.

Journaling

Yesterday, I had a session with my IC and while I was on the way there, I thought to myself I would tell her it would be my last session. I felt light and happy and I thought there's no more need to go there. Well, I ended up being teary eyed again. Just when you thought you're ok, there are still things that linger. I told my therapist that I didnt have the courage to tell my relatives about the divorce and they didn't ask me about it either. So I thought there was no need of telling them during the time of my vacation because I wasn't ready. She asked me if it's because I wasn't ready or if I still haven't accepted the reality that we are now divorced. I said to her, I wasn't ready and I knew I would cry in front of them if I had to tell the story. And for me, it shows weakness. We are not used to showing everyone that we're crying. As much as possible you show that poker face that you are ok. That is still something  I am working on. But then she pointed out, that this is something very important, to tell my family about it. To make it a reality on that part part of my life as obviously this family is very important for me. I then realized, she was right. I still haven't totally accepted that we are divorced now, otherwise I would have asked my mom to put away the picture frames of my wedding. But I didn't because I wanted it to be there. Gosh, this journey is indeed a marathon. But I am getting there. Telling the rest of my family is the last hurdle in this journey for me.

On the dating front, I've been seeing this guy from a dating app. And for now we're just friends and I am enjoying this part of my life. It's nice to know someone is interested in you. I feel better about myself, I feel more confident. Here in this country where I live in, the whole thing feels real. My therapist also pointed it out to me. But in my home country, I haven't made it real yet. And that is something I am working on right now. Apparently, I am avoiding that part because of my fears of being judged. And she was right. So, my journey continues. Most important thing is I have come out stronger and better.

[MadLuv]

DF- I went every week to IC , then every other, then once a month and then I told her I will contact you it I need to talk. I have gone back 2 times. Things that come up I have notes on my phone and I kind of list them so if I do Go I can go over different things that gave me pause. We can be generally doing better and even ok, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have things still hit you.

[Dragonfly33]

Hi everyone, It's been a month I haven't updated here. There's really not much going on in my life right now except work, family and friends. As for that guy I was dating, I just got ghosted from one day to the other. He was someone who would constantly text me even during his work time to somebody who just totally disappeared. Well, the dating world now is totally different from what I used to know. I feel like people just want casual things which for me is really unimaginable. Before BD I would have thought there was something wrong with me and would start running after these guys. But now, I just let them go. It was still a nice experience though but not worth the chase. My friend told me, I was using this guy to forget about my ex or to do a revenge. And she thought I was so desperate to have a relationship. I don't think I am desperate to have a relationship. Just because I don't want to play this casual/situationship $h!te nowadays, doesn't mean I am desperate to have a serious relationship. Yes I would like to be in a serious relationship and not play around with different men.  some of you here are very lucky to find a decent partner. With what I experienced, I think it's almost impossible. People treat people nowadays as commodities

As for my MLC front, I had to contact my H this weekend due to some property we have. He just needs to sign a legal document and it's been quite a pain since the land is in my home country and where I live now, the rules are different.. Fortunately, my ex has been cooperative and I hope this will be settled soon so I don't have to contact him anymore. No idead what is going on in his life at the moment, haven't checked his insta anymore. The time will really come when you're not bothered anymore what your ex is doing or who he is with. I cannot believe I would be in a place like this. Today, after texting back and forth regarding this legal document, I told him I hope he was ok. He answered me he was recovering but didn't mention from what. So I thought it was from another accident, but he said from covid and sinusitis. So told him to get well soon and that was it.  He never asked me how I was. So it's still all about him anyway. As for me, I don't have that hate feeling towards him anymore. I also cannot say I don't love him anymore. It's like somewhere in the middle. I cannot believe that it's only less than a year since we got divorced. It feels like a long time now.

I've read so many of the newbies here. And I am really sorry that you have to experience this. I was once in your shoes, confused, afraid to make a bad move because you don't want to push your spouse even further. I read so many books, tried to be patient, got hurt so many times. I cried for two years straight almost every day. I was so scared to lose my then H. But you really have no control of your spouse. You only have control of yourself and whatever you do, it doesn't influence the outcome of your MLC spouse. You can bend forward and backward, it doesn't have any effect. It took me maybe 3 years to fully understand that. At some point, you will get tired and you will let go. You learn to survive by yourself and you learn to build a life with yourself. I do not wish this to anybody not even to my worst enemy. It's a very painful journey but if I survived it, you will as well like all the veterans here. You have to go through this to get to the other side. Some were able to reconcile and some didn't. But it's ok you don't. I would choose to be this way again rather than being with that spouse who had no more respect for me. In the end, I learned to save myself first. Eventhough I didn't reconcile with my ex, I consider my story a success story, because I learned to be independent again, to trust myself again, to manage life by myself again after being in a highly codependent relationship. I learned so many things in life, that I thought I could never do. I made new friends and I am still continuing to grow. And I think that's the most important thing.

[forthetrees]

Hats off to you! You have come SOOOOOO far in your healing journey. Puts a smile on my face.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

So proud of you. As I read your writing, you sense the strength and life coming through.

So told him to get well soon and that was it.  He never asked me how I was. So it's still all about him anyway. As for me, I don't have that hate feeling towards him anymore. I also cannot say I don't love him anymore. It's like somewhere in the middle. I cannot believe that it's only less than a year since we got divorced. It feels like a long time now.

Because now, he is just some guy. The connection has been lost. Because of that, you can see him for who he is- nothing more, nothing less.  And yes, he is still self-centered.

I've read so many of the newbies here. And I am really sorry that you have to experience this. I was once in your shoes, confused, afraid to make a bad move because you don't want to push your spouse even further. I read so many books, tried to be patient, got hurt so many times. I cried for two years straight almost every day. I was so scared to lose my then H. But you really have no control of your spouse. You only have control of yourself and whatever you do, it doesn't influence the outcome of your MLC spouse.

Great advice and so true. I really feel for the newbies because there is so much shock, grief, and complete bewilderment. You just want some answers that make sense and there are none.

People treat people nowadays as commodities

I disagree. I think that has been going on for a long, long time- the internet just makes it easier to do.

Have a great weekend, you are doing great!

(((Ready)))

[toomanytearss]

I did the dating thing Dragonfly and I found the same as you have found. I wasn’t necessarily looking for anything permanent or super serious. But geez they could act like grown ups and have a grown up type thing. I found they were either liars and cheats or wanted to move right in or had issues. I can tell you that it was great practice for me and from what you wrote great practice for you as well. To learn to not continue when someone treats me like. That was a very difficult thing for me to learn with my deep seated fear of abandonment.

I finally quit dating. It took too much of my energy. Lol. But I learned a lot about myself doing it.

[Dragonfly33]

Thank you for the trees, ready and too many. I wanted to continue sharing to help the newbies here or those who are not so new here that even if sometimes times get so dark and you don't see any hope anymore or you when you feel so scared about the future, I've been there and you will be ok. Right now maybe it is so hard to believe this but you will be ok, stronger and better even when your marriage doesn't make it. You just have to keep going, keep taking the step in front of you. I was so scared 4 years ago. I couldn't imagine a life without him. I kept holding on to the relationship that was over. I couldn't accept it. I couldn't let go. The more you hold on to it the more you get hurt. Until you realize it's totally out of your control. I guess my divorce helped me to let go and the NC was very helpful for me. It was necessary for me since we don't have kids anyway. It was what I needed to give myself space to see it from a distance. Only then I understood that what my ex offered me wasn't something I wanted. That I was worth more than what he offered me.It was not easy but slowly I learned to let go. One step at a time. Of course, I wish you would reconcile. Everybody who went throught this wanted to reconcile but sadly, a lot here didn't and that's a fact.

Toomany, this guy I was dating had already his own issues. He left his wife 4 years ago with a 5 month old baby and still blamed his ex wife until today for taking his kid away from him. But despite that, I continued dating him because it felt good. I just don't understand why people can't tell you in your face that they're not interested anymore instead of just ignoring you. I was hurt probably because of my abandonement issues from which I'm not fully healed yet. Or it could be my ego, nobody wants to be rejected. But like you said, this is a learning experience for me. I have to battle with my thoughts that's telling me that I'm not lovable or not a worthy partner. At least now, I am aware that this comes from my childhood trauma. It's sometimes very difficult to convince yourself when you go through something like this, that you are worthy of love. Every day I tell myself that what this guy did to me has nothing to do with my self worth. These are his own issues.
This is the only guy that has gone this far with me since my separation and the only guy to whom I opened up again. Yeah, we learn from our experience and this is part of my learning process. I'm still working on myself and it is a struggle especially if you have deep abandonement issues and especially if these come from your own parents. I hope one day, I will learn to really see myself is a worthy person and stop basing my value on how people treat me.

I'm still hopeful that one day, I will meet that person who truly values me and cares for me.

[Dragonfly33]

Hi everyone, the last few weeks I have been feeling very uneasy, not content with where I am now and I guess a lot of frustration and anger. I am aware that healing is not a linear process, however, I still am baffled why I still have these feelings. I wonder if some of you have experienced this. I just feel angry about myself. I feel overwhelmed by the things I have to do at home, plus the job. I am frustrated about myself that was not capable of pushing my masters. I'm frustrated because I feel like I am stagnant. I couldn't get myself do something to improve myself. Also I feel very tired of fighting the current. I feel like I have always been swimming against the current. It's like a wave of feelings. It comes and goes. But lately, it's been bugging me, which means that it's telling me something that I haven't been able to address. There were times where I just cried or I wanted to scream or give up. To be honest what frustrates me the most of I don't feel like I've accomplished anything. At least my ex had been joining these triathlons, and he's accomplished a lot. I am happy for him, and i am not bitter at all. I can't help but compare myself. If I look at myself, I coudln't see anything right now that I have accomplished, except that I am still surviving. 

Sorry for ranting. I just needed to let it out and write it here. It helps me to release some of the steam. People would tell me find yourself, look inside and find out what it is that makes you happy. I really don't know how to do that. I don't have a goal in life anymore. I've allowed my life to just float not knowing where it would lead me. Sometimes I feel scared because there's a lot of uncertainties.

I hope some of you can share your experience here . Thank you for reading.

[KayDee]

Dear DF - I am a green pea newbie, so I can't speak from my experience, but your post caught my eye because I have just been visiting with a friend who is 5 plus years from a very difficult marriage break up - not an MLC breakup, but one that was equally traumatic and destructive. She and I talked a lot about recovery, that like grief, there is not fixed process or timeline. And in the same way that building a loving, bonding relationship takes time, so does grieving one. IMO and hers, taking that time is far more healthy, than say, jumping straight into another relationship etc. As long as we don't get stuck in the 'healing phase' (this term is new to me and I am contemplating what this might mean to me personally).

What I wanted to share here, is that towards the end of the five years she had a kind of 'fallow year', when she did very little, except maintain close relationships, be constant for her kids, and function at her job. She did small things and kept 'local'. In hindsight for her, this appears to be her final acceptance phase, because she recently dipped her toe into dating, and has a new partner of 6 months. This is not to give any sort of timeline pressure to anyone, but the sense I got from her, is that when she was in this fallow period, she was a worried she might be stagnating and shrinking her life, but now she sees it as an important time for her to 'reseed' and recover from the exhaustion this journey unleashes. I wonder if this might resonate with you.

[zartheit]

I am aware that healing is not a linear process, however, I still am baffled why I still have these feelings. I wonder if some of you have experienced this.

You are speaking to my soul here. When I'm in the pit it feels inescapable; I'm trapped there forever. I cognitively recognize the feeling can't last but when I'm in the thick of it... it feels like lost in the void is the default--how things are supposed to be--and I can only ever experience snatches of relief. It's terrible. You know this but I'll say it anyway: it gets better. Its grip will lessen. At some future point you'll have trouble recalling the exact feeling. That isn't right now, but going back to basics will help lay the foundation for that time. This is the work.

I just feel angry about myself. I feel overwhelmed by the things I have to do at home, plus the job. I am frustrated about myself that was not capable of pushing my masters. I'm frustrated because I feel like I am stagnant. I couldn't get myself do something to improve myself. Also I feel very tired of fighting the current. I feel like I have always been swimming against the current. It's like a wave of feelings. It comes and goes. But lately, it's been bugging me, which means that it's telling me something that I haven't been able to address. There were times where I just cried or I wanted to scream or give up. To be honest what frustrates me the most of I don't feel like I've accomplished anything. At least my ex had been joining these triathlons, and he's accomplished a lot. I am happy for him, and i am not bitter at all. I can't help but compare myself. If I look at myself, I coudln't see anything right now that I have accomplished, except that I am still surviving.

Yes, I feel all of this. The weariness, the exhaustion, the nonstop tumult that you must constantly tread, the alienation, the disappointment, frustration, pain. No matter what you do it isn't enough. These feelings calcify on you and another bubble bath is not going to wash them off. You do everything "right" and at the end all of those little pieces crumble. You slide right back to the bottom of the staircase with the reward having to climb it again. Every day. The dust bunnies reproduce, the counter seems to accrete patches of hard food, the dust and cobwebs expand like foam. No one around you seems to have these problems, to have any problems. Everyone is complaining in the sunshine while you're forcing a smile in the rain.

Sorry for ranting. I just needed to let it out and write it here. It helps me to release some of the steam. People would tell me find yourself, look inside and find out what it is that makes you happy. I really don't know how to do that. I don't have a goal in life anymore. I've allowed my life to just float not knowing where it would lead me. Sometimes I feel scared because there's a lot of uncertainties.

I pursued a path HARD for something like 15 years. It doesn't bring me the joy it used to. I don't want to discard it but I'm scared. I had a goal, a purpose, a mission and now I do my best to keep the fly wheel spinning, riding the coattails of that past life. I'm tired of drifting. I want clarity. I want drive. I want to jump out of bed eager to get back at it. I believe the dreaded time is required here, as much as I buck and flail and thrash against it. I want it now! But it isn't ripe now. I try to sit with the disappointment and the ennui. Maybe I'll finally learn patience. I'm writing a lot of poetry that might make some people blush. That creative outlet seems to help.

I hope some of you can share your experience here . Thank you for reading.

Thank you for sharing. I feel that I am in a similar place. I'm a little less alone today.

[Dragonfly33]

What I wanted to share here, is that towards the end of the five years she had a kind of 'fallow year', when she did very little, except maintain close relationships, be constant for her kids, and function at her job. She did small things and kept 'local'. In hindsight for her, this appears to be her final acceptance phase, because she recently dipped her toe into dating, and has a new partner of 6 months. This is not to give any sort of timeline pressure to anyone, but the sense I got from her, is that when she was in this fallow period, she was a worried she might be stagnating and shrinking her life, but now she sees it as an important time for her to 'reseed' and recover from the exhaustion this journey unleashes. I wonder if this might resonate with you.

Thank you for sharing this Kaydee. I hope this is just a phase like what your friend had experienced. I do feel that I am stagnating right now. I was a person with a very strong drive into doing something new, mostly learning something new. I was very ambitious. All that is gone. I lost the drive to pursue something new. It's like being contented with where I am now and yet not being contented. It's a very confusing place to be in. When I feel emotional, sometimes I cannot pinpoint what emotion I am feeling. I cannot point my finger to it. I missed my ex at times and at times, I know there's the anger as well. But the anger doesn't stay long. Mostly I feel indifferent. I am very confused right now.

Zarheit, I am so sorry you are also in this situation. I know how frustrating it is. you are right about your analogy with the staircase. There was even a time during my session with my IC that I told her I was totally fine. I feel beautiful and content in life. I feel strong, etc. And then you get hit by this kind of feeling. Like falling how many steps on the stairs. Not from square one but quite a number of steps. I hope this is just temporary. It's only been almost a year since my divorce was finalized. It will be a year on the 14th of this month. Also a year since the last time I saw my exh. Today, while I was walking my dog, I suddenly felt a surge of anger towards him. I just wanted to curse him, his family and all the women who were involved with him. I wanted to curse them all. But I don't even know why I was angry with him. It could come from my frustration, bitterness that he's doing well and making is dreams come true while here I am lost in nowhere. It's a very unhealthy thought, and I don't want to be this way. I want to be a better person.

[MadLuv]

DF- I get it. I am in such a better place, but I am alone. My family no matter how hard I try is not healed. I feel I put everyone before me to end up alone and almost like no one cares, yet I have friends ( not near me but many) I have some family ( but not near me )  it’s hard to come to terms with loving someone that can walk away like it is nothing. I try not to think about it because it makes my view of everything around me different. Less hopeful.

 I am a happy and positive  person, but this can take you to your knees and although we get back up, we still wobble sometimes when we walk this new path. I know for me age has been huge as I am now 61 and I feel like I should be out there taking on the world, but I find myself isolating a lot. Not knowing for sure what to do. Where to start. Making decisions with no one to bounce them Off on. With that said.

 I have come to the conclusion that I am still all I was before and probably so much better,so what feels like stagnation is more  of a need. A need to come to terms with everything fully. To make sense of it fully as much as I can so I can take on my next decade of life. I hate I was robbed of years and continue to feel robbed  as I am unsure where I am headed, but also I am Ok. Im not sad most days, although I have them still. It’s hard not to feel cheated of a life you planned and also to have to go against everything you believe in. The biggest part for me however is feeling at times that I dont know if I ever knew him at all. That can be painful.

So I try not to worry about time and being stagnant. I get out when I can and when I do I have so much fun. So, I know I will figure it out when I am fully ready. I have started just trying to put me first and if I could do anything what would I do with out consideration for anyone else. Not in a selfish way toward others, but a selfless way for me. We deserve to put ourselves first.

[Treasur]

There was a time when I could have written almost word for word what you wrote, Dragonfly. In fact I think I did in some of my long HS meanderings. Can’t pin down the timescale exactly, maybe 2019ish? Certainly post-divorce.

The best way I can sum it up now is that I remembered who I was but I couldn’t feel it or touch it. It was a very strange time and came with a lot of inner turmoil.

What I can say from my own experience is that wishing you felt differently probably won’t change how you feel, but that you will not always feel how you do right now. Those feelings, even the messy muddy nature of them, will take you somewhere else. I don’t know where, you don’t know where yet, but it will. They will evolve; you will evolve. Or perhaps more accurately you will refine yourself as you go.

Again, looking back, I found it helpful to try to talk to myself with a rather kind voice. I had lost a great deal, more than I could have imagined initially actually. A great deal of my existence felt like starting over while carrying big stones up a hill. Being cross with myself about how I did that never seemed to make it better, but being a little kinder to myself about the reality of where I was and that it would evolve bit by bit often did. If nothing else, it gave me the strength to try again the next day lol. But it’s a strange experience to be exhausted by trying while not necessarily very sure about what you are trying to achieve, isn’t it? Other than Not Being Here which seems to not change or be controlled as much as we might wish.

Again, looking back, there was a shift when I somehow stopped linking my struggle with what my xh had done or was doing. Practically speaking, of course, some of where I found myself was caused by his actions/inactions, that’s true, but weirdly my own progress (or not) wasn’t is the best way I can describe it. And when that shift happened, my lens changed.

So, I’m sorry, this stage on your path sucks epically and I remember it as exhausting too. But it will not always be how it is today; your job is to keep walking and be as fair and kind to yourself about the path as you can be.

[Dragonfly33]

Thank you Madluv and Treasur for always giving me an insight from your experience. I'm sorry it took me so long to write back. I felt I needed to distance myself from analysing all the emotions that had been going through last year.

So now, Im ready to journal again.
It's been 5 months since the last time I wrote on my own thread, but I've been reading some of the posts here and sometimes I also answered.  To be honest, it made me sad to see newbies here and I try to avoid reading their posts because it just brings me back to the time I was in their situation. That time I considered my worst nightmare that I don't want to visit anymore. I hope you all understand.

As for me, I stopped seeing my therapist. We both agreed that I don't need it anymore and if ever hard times come, she said I was always welcome to give her a call and make an appointment. That was early this year I think. Now, I feel good about myself. I get to know myself again, and slowly I'm getting back that self confidence. Sometimes I can't believe I was able to handle things here by myself and through this experience, it helped me trust myself again. This is a big improvement for me since I got married to my xh. I have become more confident at work I think especially that I have to communicate in a foreign language. I learned not to worry too much about the future and to take things one day at a time. It helped me with my anxiety. Now, I just go with the flow in life. I've also informed my relatives about the Divorce and it gave me some sort of relief. It's like a thorn being taken out of me. They unfriended my ex on all social medias as I told them I would not want them to be in contact with him anymore. Not that I am angry with him but it's because I really don't want him to know what's going on with my life. I'm also dating other people now again and I am enjoying my time getting to know other men. I have to admit, it does make me feel good, knowing that I am still attractive. I also believe I've been closer to my mom and my sisters now than when I was still married. There are good things that came out of that nightmare I had to go through.

I just celebrated my 48th birthday this month. My xh texted to greet me, which came as a surprise to me because I never greeted him on his birthday and when he sent me a card last year I never replied to him. This time when I got his text, I was quite taken a back but there were no more tears. It's just like one of those long lost friends that suddenly greet you out of nowhere. I replied him politely and thanked him. That was it. I believe he is still with the young sporty OW and it doesn't bother me anymore. Once in a while I hear something about him from friends. And apparently from his former and present work colleague, they see him as a very weird person or his life now is just about triathlon, which maybe good for him as he has something to be proud of for himself now.  Other than that, I know nothing about him and I am not interested about his whereabouts anymore. I really learned to let it go and with the gift of time it does get better. I could not imagine to be in this place right now two years ago. It was impossible to imagine it. But here I am now, I survived that ordeal.

Life is short to put your life on hold waiting for them or trying to analyse their actions. Indeed you can't do anything about these people. You just let them do what they do and focus on your life. There is nothing you can do to influence them. Their mind is set so whatever kind of destruction they intend to do. Ursa likened it to a tornado, pave the way and let it pass. If you stand in their way, it will just destroy you. I know how hard it is to accept this as a newbie. I coudln't wrap my mind around it when I was new to this. I tried and tried and the more I tried to save that marriage the more he destroyed it. It was never about the marriage or me, it was all about him. And I hope he is happy now with his life to be honest. I hope he truly found that happiness he was looking for. I wish it didn't happen but on the other hand, if it didn't happen,I wouldn't be what I am now.

[titleholder]

It’s good to hear from you dragonfly and I’ve got to say you should be incredibly proud of yourself!! You’re taking all the steps towards healing and building your own future. I wish you all the best and keep going!

[Dragonfly33]

Thank you titleholder. It’s a long journey. It is indeed a marathon. You need to learn to save your energy to get to the finish line. My story may not be what the newbies here would hope for but even if I didn’t reconcile, I still end up in a good place. And to be honest I don’t know if I want to be that old self again. Most likely not. I like myself now. That’s the best thing that came out of all the suffering. Whether I will be in a relationship again or not I know I am happy and comfortable with myself. Id like to have a partner one day but it’s not something that I need. It would be nice but it is also ok without. It’s been almost 5 years since BD. In May it will be 5 years and 2 years D in November. I felt though that I have been divorced for a long time now. For the newbies out there, just hang in there and don’t give up on yourself. There is a way out of this, even though you feel like there isn’t.

[Treasur]

Sending a hug and a bit of a cheer over to you from here, dear girl. My word, you have worked hard and come a long way. And imho - bc most of us understand what you say about how it feels to read new postings - it’s also a gift to share where you are today when you couldn’t have imagined it when you first posted. X

[marvin4242]

DF I remember when you were really in pain and struggling and it wonderful to see how far you have progressed for yourself and I am very happy that you are in this place, where your H is no longer causing you great pain. It has been a hard earned road and I hope you enjoy all the rewards of your accomplishment and growth. And I agree with what you wrote, life is too short to put your life on hold for anyone.

And as painful and destructive as the experience of dealing with an MLCer it is an opportunity to grow and find new facets of ourselves. Sounds like you have found new strength and comfort in yourself.

[MadLuv]

You sound great DF. I understand on reading the new stories. The beginning of this journey is so devastating that to relive that pain or see it in others, well your heart breaks for yourself and for them.

Where our spouse are now or where they are going or who they are going with I have come to accept makes no difference . We weren’t the problem and OW or OM certainly isn’t their answer. So we carry on. It may takes a bit, but that because we loved deeply. We are rational . We lose ourselves, but then with time and hard work we find ourselves again. Looks like you have been found !!

[UrsaMajor]

DF - the corner has been turned and you've reached a "flat" place in your journey (no longer a constant uphill struggle). Congratulations. It is the result of a LOT of hard work on your part.

As far as your MLCxH goes, well..... the saying remains the same... "No matter how far or how fast you run, there you are." One can not outrun their own demons......

UM

[Imgood]

Hi Dragonfly, it’s so good to hear that you’re doing well! Glad to hear that you’re dating and enjoying the experience. Here’s to wishing, you meet someone fabulous who is worthy of you!

[beyondblessed]

Hello, DF, it's so good to hear that you are doing so well!  It does take a minute to get our bearings from such a shocking betrayal, but once we do, there is nothing but ourselves to  slow our journey through healing.   You sound fantastic and that is something to celebrate!  It is almost impossible to fathom in the beginning, but at some point a lot of us have ended up grateful for the tough lessons learned and the lives we have now.  This definitely changes one's perspective to be sure.

[Dragonfly33]

Thank you Treasur, Marvin, Madluv, Ursa, Imgood and BB.

Marvin I remember at the time when you pointed out to me the obvious, I have to say honestly that I was really butthurt. It was hard for me to accept the reality that my exh never cared about me or my well-being anymore. That that marriage was over. I could not accept that I wasn't his priority anymore, that what he was doing was abusing my kindness. And I kept trying and trying. It was indeed a crazy rollercoaster ride. In hindsight, I could have stopped the bleeding earlier but it was hard to see the truth because in my mind this is my husband. Even now I don't think anything has changed with him. And with him I don't think it is just MLC. I think it was a pattern to be contacting the ex and try to flirt or get the high whenever the ex flirts back. Because what he did to me with his ex gf from 15 years ago during the onset of MLC or even before MLC was exactly what he's doing now with his young sporty OW with me. The only difference is I don't take the bait. I'm so done with all these dramas and I don't need it anymore after what I had to go through with him. I'm sure the OW isn't aware he's greeting me on my birthday. somehow, it's a blessing in disguise the OW is with him. She kept him occupied and gave him another high and eventually he stopped bothering me. For as long as there is a supply he will be at an arms length from me.

Also a blessing in disguise for me as I had finally faced all my childhood traumas and understood myself better. My therapist pointed out something that was really very important for me. My parents' separation was not my fault and my husband's infidelity or so called misery was not my fault. I have to remind myself of this every day. My mom didn't leave me because I was not enough, she was unfortunately in that situation where I was almost 5 years ago and had no choice. My ex left me because of him not because of me. Those realisations have helped me a lot in moving on and be confident with myself again. It helped me see my value as a person. Of course it is never over, this is a journey and once in a while I may trip over but then I stand up right away and keep moving. And I thank you all for sticking with me when no one else understood what I was going through. This group was part of my therapy.

[Dragonfly33]

Just a short update about my exh and our former friends that picked his side. My friend who is also friends with these common friend of ours will be celebrating her birthday soon. And she told me today that she is inviting these common friends of ours with whom I had no more contact anymore. And I told my friend I am not really comfortable with them because i cut off the contact long time ago. She told me not to worry since they  are apparently not friends anymore with my x because they don’t like him anymore. So he really cut off quite a number of people in that case. And the people he hang out with nowadays are really weird people including the OW. Sounds like MLC then.

[MadLuv]

You know there is so much focus on the affair down. But I think they marry up and their insecurities and crisis make them attach to those they feel in their current state they feel they are worthy of.  It’s all very sad, isn’t it.

[Dragonfly33]

This is so true Madluv. The OW makes him feel worthy because she’s supporting gis craziness. I remember I always told him I was so proud of what he achieved in his career but he wasn’t proud of himself. And he kept saying he’s doing this triathlon to make me proud of him even though I told him I was proud of him. It’s all projection but of course at that time I didn’t understand it. But anyway, like I said I don’t give much thought of it nowadays. I also didn’t seek to know what’s going on with his life. Today it’s just that my friend informed me she’s inviting our common friend as I am also coming to her party. I don’t think I want to go back to him anymore even if given a chance. The damage and hurt are  irreversible or even irreparable. Even if he was indeed in MLC I don’t think I want to risk my life with him again. I know if I am in a new relationship the risk would be the same but I cannot unsee what a horrible person my exh has become towards me. The things he said to me about making sure I die if ever I wanted to commit suicide again was just disgusting especially from a man who said he loved me. There’s just no more turning back to that.