[9393roo]

Thread #5 here I come.  5 threads for 5 years. (If the moderators can do their magic and link my old one it would be so much appreciated

I had not planned on starting a new thread or even posting on here so soon, but I have taken a seat on the struggle bus the last few days and wanted to share.  I also wanted to show that my reconnection, much like MLC, is not linear. 
 
My calmness has been disrupted by a small cycle back by H.  He did not have his regular therapist appointment last Friday and I noticed it over the weekend.  Every once in a while, I see younger versions of himself pop up.  This time it was the 12 year old boy.  The one who can’t control his mouth and is worried he is always in trouble. This 12 year old boy brought out a trauma cyclone in me.  We have not been a good combination to say the least.  I am finding my way back to detachment. 

 Over the weekend we did a bunch of chores around the house and at our business.  One of these include fixing a sprinkler system.  Two weeks before this I was at my parents house and my dad showed me how to change sprinkler heads.  So I knew how to fix them.  At first my H was impressed; I went on to fix an outdoor timer by watching a you tube video and learning.  My H was also impressed with this for a little while.  Over the last 5 years as my H stopped doing anything around our house, I learned how to do everything.  I have a strange knack for fixing things, I’m not sure where it came from.   When we were done I was sweaty and dirty.  My H looked at me and said “I guess you are the boy your dad never had”  I laughed it off a bit and then he said “ I better be careful you may take away my man card”  Well, this didn’t go over well with me.  I asked him what he meant by that and he said “ you’ve taken over everything around the house and if people knew they would think that I’m not manly enough to do it”  (12 year old speaking)  I said “What I think you meant to say is thank you Roo for doing so much around the house the last few years, I appreciate it”  I let it go and walked away.  I went inside and took a shower and put on a dress and made myself look great to go out for dinner.  My H cowered a bit throughout the night and I kind of forgot the whole interaction.  He feels threatened by my new found skills.  That is on him, I’m pretty kick a$$ in repairs now, not something I’m giving up. 

Monday we were on a zoom call together with an architect who is starting to design a new house for us ( This is being picked up again after a 5 year pause)  As we were going through the plans in the kitchen I asked if she could add in a broom closet.  My H interjected here and said “Roo doesn’t need a broom closet; she doesn’t know what a broom is” I sat stunned and kind of confused as was the architect.  He went on to say “with the exception of when she rides it” Really?.... a WTF kind of moment.   I brushed it off and we continued.  I gave it a good three hours before I decided that I was going to call him out on the comment and his behavior.  I sent him a text telling him that the comment he made may have been trying to be funny but it was hurtful and embarrassing.  I told him it made both me and the architect uncomfortable. I waited for his response.  In the past he would have been angry with me for calling him out.  I surprisingly got an apology, a nice apology.  My H said he gets that from his father (He does) thinking that what he says is funny when it is hurtful.  I thanked him for his apology and I thought we were fine.  That night he came home and I could tell he was upset.  I asked him if he was ok and he said yes gruffly.  The next morning as I was drinking coffee he came and sat down and said he wanted to talk to me.  I was a little confused.  He told me that I didn’t need to include the architect in my “scolding” of him for telling a joke.  He said now I’m worried about how she views me.  I could not figure out what he was saying.  I said “yesterday your apologized for this and I really thought you understood the hurt you caused, today you are angry with me about how I told you about it? This makes me feel that you are more worried about how the architect views you than my feelings”  He shot back “There you go getting reactionary again”  Well, that opened the Roo flood gates and he got back more than he ever wanted to hear from me.  I told him in the last few days he was made me feel manly, like a slob and a witch.  My mouth didn’t stop there.  I went on say “Why are you still here if I am not what you want?”  Trauma cyclone hit and started to spin. 

I spent most of the day crying yesterday, everything hit. I questioned whether I made the wrong decision by staying, I questioned if my h was with me because I made it easy for him to return, I questioned if I even like him anymore.   My H was silent until about 5:00 and he called.  He started out by apologizing a more heartfelt apology.  He said he was deeply sorry he hurt me.  He told me one of the things he is working on in therapy was not to feel sorry for himself when I express pain, taking ownership and not making himself the martyr.  I said thank you.  We were quiet the rest of the evening.  When we got into bed he said “I am sorry for what I said”  I said “sometimes I wonder if you know how much I have been through and how hard it has been for me”  He said “I hope I can understand someday.”   
 
He’s pulling back and so am I.  We each have some work to do.  Somedays are for sure harder than others.  Somedays I’m just plain tired of being strong and I need to sit and cry for the incredible amount of loss that I have experienced.  Right now, the sun just came through the clouds and I’m taking my dog out for a walk and picking myself back up and carrying on.  Just wanted to share to show that none of this process is easy, none of it. 

Today I will mourn a bit, and tomorrow I will go forward.  Baby steps and time. 

By Your Command.... Last Thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11602

[marvin4242]

I am sorry, none of this sounds fun (obvious statement I know). And boy does it illustrate how hard this really is even when there is "progress."

But for what its worth I for one think it is very positive how well you are in touch with what matters, what hurts, what is yours, what is his. These are so critical to be happy and/or content in our lives. And most of us never get a chance to learn about ourselves, the skills and boundaries.

Sounds like no matter where this all goes (not being negative at all) these skills will be with you and enrich your life forever. I hope your H manages to do the same.

[Ready2Transform]

You did great, Roo. Big hugs as all of this processes.

[Curiosity]

Joining you for this stage of the journey, Roo. Thank you for sharing the ups and downs of reconnection; it’s helpful to all of us, whether we are in that stage or not - and even if we never get there, I think that for all of us, there is benefit and healing in understanding all the various intricacies of this process.

From my perspective, as much triggering and trauma as there is in this experience, the progress you have both made is evident. You didn’t gloss over how his statements made you feel, you let him know - and you also got on with your life instead of letting it make you feel small. You had a cry, pulled yourself together, and kept moving forward. As for your h... yes, the adolescent is still there - the lack of consideration, the lashing out when he feels insecure. And it took him a couple of tries, but he got to a point where he was able to communicate respectfully and apologize sincerely.

Your retelling of this, at least the way I see it, makes it seem like you’re in a good place. You are detached enough to be able to step away, to take the time you need to respond instead of reacting - but you are also in reconnection and allowing yourself enough trust of him and enough vulnerability that when he backslides, it hurts. I am sorry for the difficulty and I wish you peace and strength as you navigate this rocky path.

[Acorn]

Oh, Roo….  (((((HUGS))))

Of course you felt hurt after hearing those words from your H.  He appears to have been momentarily afflicted with the ‘foot in mouth’ condition, and attributing (more likely blame shifting) the gaffes to genetics made it even worse, perhaps.  However, by the end of the post, I can detect your healthy coping mechanism kicking in (going out for a walk with your dog) and seeing the sun come out, metaphorically and literally.  Well done you!

If it is of any help, may I remind you what you already know — his words are all about him, and not you.  They revealed his vulnerabilities and moments of indiscretion and immaturity.  As you said, he has some ways to go and I hope this incident brings on another spurt of growth for him. 

Personally, I would not introduce any excuses for the spouse’s behaviour in my mind through the back door — that of ‘children of different ages showing up’ in MLC theories. Some truth in it but I think it can be overused/misused to minimize or rationalize MLCer’s words and behaviour. (Ask me how I know. )  ‘It’s MLC!!!’ may provide some context, but he is accountable for ALL his words and behaviour because HE chose them.

((((HUGS))))) again.  I hope you bounce back soon!

[9393roo]

Thank  you Marvin, Ready, Curiosity, and Acorn, a new day brings new perspective.  Thanks for helping to see things I sometimes don't.

If it is of any help, may I remind you what you already know — his words are all about him, and not you.  They revealed his vulnerabilities and moments of indiscretion and immaturity

Thank you for the reminder.  It is so very true.  This has always been slightly there throughout our marriage.  His father does the same thing.  My H is a funny guy but sometimes his humor is hurtful.  This is the first time I have heard him acknowledge that his father does the same thing, and acknowledge that this is a bad trait.  That is big in my book.


H and I went out for dinner last night.  It was calm and good.  Talked about all sorts of things except for the events of the last few days.  I think we both are detaching a bit to sort things out.  This is ok.  H seems concerned about me in a far away manner, h likes the Roo that does not address the real issues at hand.  Sometimes I do too..   I have realized that I have a ways to go in addressing my own stuff.  I never thought I had FOO issues but I do.  I am seeing this more and more the more time I have spent with my parents and sisters the last year. 

My parents live two states away and none of us kids live anywhere close to them.  We have been taking turns going out to them.  They are both in their mid 80's.  My dad is bipolar and my mom is on medication for anxiety.  When my dad is manic it sets my mom off in a tailspin.  It's a bad combination.  My sisters and I are very close (Thank god)  and we jump into action when these episodes happen.  I have been thinking a lot about my mom because I get my fixing tendencies from her.  My mom grew up in a upper middle class family.  She was the oldest of 3 and did everything the right way.  Very prim and proper.  She decided to go to college in Wyoming because her father taught at the university there in the summers.  She met my dad her first year there.  He was a very charismatic farm boy.  Nothing like the boys she dated back home.  She got pregnant and got married, because it was the right thing to do.  Her entire life changed.  They moved back to his parents farm where she had my two oldest sisters.  They moved around a bit and they had 2 more girls.  4 girls in 5 years.  My mom was always stressed when we were growing up.  She wanted everything to be perfect ,but this was at her own expense.  She never seemed happy.  She gave everything to our family.  My dad was Mr. happy go lucky and my mom took care of everything.  I talked to my mom during our last visit and I found out that she had attempted to leave my dad several times (I never knew this)  It was too much with 4 kids and she always felt it was the wrong thing to do.  She stayed and fixed and resented.  This resentment has been brewing and now as she ages it is coming out more and more.  Somedays my dad can do nothing right.  When he gets manic she gets even more resentful.  I think she has felt trapped in her life because she did the right thing all the time.  She didn't want to rock the boat.  I tell this story because sometimes I have wondered if I have done the same thing.  Have I stayed because its the right thing to do?  Have a stayed because I don't want to rock the boat?  Have I put up with so many things because I feel like I have no choice?  Digging deep and sorting out all of these emotions has been difficult.  Going back through my own marriage and realizing that I didn't say things when I should have just to keep the peace.  I was dealing with 4 kids as well.  Keeping the peace was essential and it was my full time job. 

Now that the kids are gone, we are back to facing each other.  I don't want to be 80 years old and still resentful of my H.  After my last trip to my parents I had a conversation with my H about this very thing.  I told him I don't want to be angry anymore.  I don't want to spend the rest of my life harboring resentment and I want to feel like we are together because we have chosen to be together not because its the right thing to do or we have to.   I want to work towards this goal.  I think he does as well. 

I have a 5 hour drive on my own to see my S26 tomorrow.   I just downloaded this book at the suggestion of a friend:  The Body Keeps The Score: Brain, Mind and Body in the Healing of Trauma.   Tackling my own issues and my H tackles his.  We continue our parallel roads forward.  I see a calm, healthy  marriage that is a choice ahead, that's what I am driving towards.   

[Nas]

I have a 5 hour drive on my own to see my S26 tomorrow.   I just downloaded this book at the suggestion of a friend:  The Body Keeps The Score: Brain, Mind and Body in the Healing of Trauma.   Tackling my own issues and my H tackles his.  We continue our parallel roads forward.  I see a calm, healthy  marriage that is a choice ahead, that's what I am driving towards.   

Really excellent book, I think you will get a lot out of listening to it on your drive!

[FaithWalker]

Just ordered this book to read this month.  It's supposed to get here this next week.

[9393roo]

Thanks Nas and Faith. 

The book has been/is eye opening and I make my way through it.  I was able to listen to 5 hours the other day alone in the car and 4 hours yesterday as I made way way to my D’s place.  I found myself shaking my head and seeing how much of me was being described in almost every chapter.  It does deal a lot with veterans with ptsd and children and adjust who have suffered through severe abuse.  I fit in neither of these categories but came to realize that trauma can happen to anyone and it is damaging and life changing. 

I had an epiphany of sorts.  As my H continues to move closer to me and I start to reattach  the more trauma I feel I start to experience.  Triggers seem to come out of nowhere.  Things that I really haven’t dealt with come back.  As I moved forward I realize that I haven’t put to rest what has happened.  My H is no longer doing the crazy antics of replay but I continue to sometimes treat him like he is.  My perception is often skewed and I take his past actions and apply them to his present.  My H is often confused and will say things like “I don’t understand, I’m not doing those things anymore” he is trying to understand where I am coming from while at the same time figure himself out.  Some days it all feels like too much for him I know.  He gets close to giving up.  We have had some tough conversations the last few days.  But we both have been calm as we talk about the past.  There is no sugar coating it for me anymore.  I am starting to express what happened to me without being so emotional.  He very much can’t handle my emotions right now.  Some days my emotions get the best of me. 

A couple of highlights form the book that I found myself nodding along to.  When trauma hits you need to be able to talk with someone or groups of people who have been through the same thing in order to start your healing.  This is where this forum had been invaluable.  Having someone understand is key.  I also have found a friend on this forum that I text almost daily.  We are each other’s support system.  If you are a newbie please post and share your story.  Writing it down makes it more real.  All a part of how you move forward.  I realize that I still need some help with getting over the past.  I’m looking into EMDR and neurofeedback.  The foster kids I have worked with have done these things and had great results.  I never thought I needed more help but I do.  I feel like I just need a small push sometimes.  Detachment is fine but it also has made me not pay attention some nuggets issues as we reattach.  Intimacy is still on the horizon.  This is where I think I’m going to need the most help.  I recognize that. 

A few good things from our weekend.  My H joined me at our sons house Saturday.  We hiked and helped our son with things around his new house.  My H was concerned about our son and talked to him often.  (Hasn’t done this in years). We went to lunch at an outside barn.  There were two families with babies nearby.  The babies noticed each other and started to crawl towards each other.  We all watched and cheered them on.  The biggest cheerleader was my H.  He was laughing so hard.  When they met up my H said “that may have been the cutest thing I’ve ever seen”.  I almost started to cry.  This was one thing I noticed about him during the last 5 years.  He used to love babies and completely stopped paying attention to them during replay. 

In our way home we were listening to another audiobook.  He stopped it midway and said “Seeing our son with his first house and getting married soon reminded me of us.  We had so little when we first started out but we had each other.  I put you through a lot when the kids were young.  You did so much in your own, I’m sorry”. I told him there was nothing to be sorry for.  I wouldn’t change any of those times. It was hard but we were happy.  We had a lot of love as we built our family and our company.  We just need to figure out what is next. 

Forward we go as we pick up the broken pieces.  We are both are working to repair ourselves first, which I am finding is essential.  I am starting to see better times on the horizon.  Slow and steady. 

[rosetintedglasses]

Roo, lovely to read your recent posts on your new thread.

Good for you working all this out.

Rose 🌹

[sachat3]

Attaching x

[9393roo]

Thought I would update a bit since there seems to be rumblings on dealing with reconnection so I thought I would add in my experience.

Reconnection continues, My Hand I are both on our own paths towards healing.  Some days I feel hopeful, others I do not.  I guess as an LBS we go through our share of cycling as well. 

Last week was my extended family reunion.  I could tell it was bothering my H.  This would be the first time in 3 years that he has seen my 3 sisters and mom and Dad all together.  Facing all of that would be tough.  A few days before my H started to shut down.  I have noticed that when he gets with family, he becomes quiet and complacent.  He told me the other day that he is "afraid" of saying the wrong thing.  This is new.  The more he awakens the more "afraid" he is of how people view him.  He has a long way to go in maturity in this aspect.  His crisis was/is an identity crisis for sure.  As he struggles to put back an identity and "build his character"  (His words) he has become very afraid of what other people think.  He was quiet throughout the vacation.  I can imagine that it would be tough to face my big support group.  They all don't even know half of what happened, but they were all kind and gracious.  He must deal with guilt and shame, more and more this is coming out. 

This brings me to something I would like to warn people about as they are in the middle of dealing with the craziness of MLC.  Reconnecting will be much more difficult the more people you share your story with.   I did share all my pain and hurt the first two years with my sisters.  They tried their best to understand. They always had my best interest at heart but could not understand why I would stay.  I stopped talking to them as I joined HS and started to share my story with people who understand.  I do not think my sisters would be so understanding if they knew the whole story.  If you are standing it will make it much easier for you in the long run the less people you inform about it all.  They are judging you as well as your MLCer.  The last 3 years when the subject has come up, I have said "We are doing well and working on it” that’s all.  I have a friend from here who I text almost daily and share the insanity.  She gets it. 

I see my H dip in and out of the tunnel, I see such clarity at some moments and such confusion in others.  I now can understand the confusion a bit more and know when to back away.   In the beginning my expectations often got the best of me and brought me pain.  I am learning how to detach at a moment’s notice.  My H is trying to understand it all.  He does see a therapist weekly, he is doing the work.  The more I deal with my own pain, the more he is able to deal with his.  We talk about it sometimes but mostly we are living two lives that are not quite connected.  The insanity of the drunk texts, the always needing attention, the constantly working out and dying his hair are all fading.  The affair hurt is fading and is being replaced by a feeling of "It all happened and there isn't anything I can do to make it unhappen"  He is dealing with his employees that have a broken relationship with him as well.   He has a lot of work to do in all facets of his life.  I hope that he continues on a path forward. 

As for me I continue to move ahead.  A new job is giving me new confidence.  I am getting back some of the self respect and love that I lost during the first few years of MLC. I am different.  I am losing the fear of things not going the way I had planned them.  People are noticing my new roll with the flow attitude and it is nice.  I feel like for the first time in a very long time I am able to express myself calmly and clearly.  I am making my voice heard.  Really would recommend the book Non Violent Communication.  So many good things there. (Thanks Acorn) 

I think I am at a place of peace.  I am owning what is mine and changing things that don't work.  I have my boundaries in place of what will and will not work for me.  My H seems to be respecting those boundaries. My marriage is no way, shape or form back.  There is a long way to go before that happens.   The fear of what lies ahead is gone.  I have done some hard work to get here.  It is true that for the Mlcer as well as the LBS the only way out is through.  The anger, the triggers, the pain of the affairs are being put away. The rose colored glasses of my marriage are off and a new way of doing things will have to be implemented in order for us to have a marriage.  We are both making the choice to move forward slowly.
Wishing you all peace as you continue the journey you never asked for.  I hope you all have a chance to find yourself in the process of healing.  I know in my case this has been a bit of a blessing. 

[Curiosity]

Thanks for the update, Roo. I read a lot of reconnection stories early on in this process, largely out of wishful thinking at the time. In addition, my W was at home for a while at the beginning and now has been back at home for a bit more than 3 months. I wouldn’t say we’re in reconnection - it might turn out in hindsight that we were, but I think it’s the kind of thing that you often can’t definitely say in real time. But the purpose of reading the reconnection stories has changed for me. Now, it’s a reminder that when they come home, they are not healed. Not only that, it often seems like much of the heavy lifting in our own journey happens when reconnection is being considered or is in progress.

You’re right that sharing the details of MLC with people in your life will complicate reconnection. I have been lucky in that most of my family and our mutual friends live far away; only a few people know all of my side of things. I struggle with discomfort around the idea of socializing with her enabler friends; a part of me is embarrassed even though logically I have no reason to be. But a part of me still gets stuck on the idea of what they must think of me, what has she told them about me and about our relationship. So there are definitely struggles, and it’s helpful to see how others are navigating the choppy waters of life with an at-home broken person.

Seconding the recommendation for Nonviolent Communication; it’s so beneficial. I am happy that you have found the blessings in this, that you are finding your voice and your path. I wish you continued peace, strength, and healing - both you and your h.

[OffRoad]

I find I once again need help with understanding. I acknowledge I am not a person to be worried about what others think. I definitely worry about what I think about my own actions, but am pretty forgiving of me if I am really doing the best I can.

What is the concern if you tell other people what your MLCer has done. He/she did it, right? Why would hiding that seem to be the proper thing? If people don't accept that you are choosing to stay, that's a them problem. Are you afraid of standing up and saying, "Yeah, he screwed up royally. He had admitted his transgressions and is seeking to make amends.  I choose to give him a chance to prove himself."? It seems fairly simple, but perhaps I am clueless?

Trust me, I had my share of people who didn't get it while I hung in there for 18 months. I faced off with family members more than once with "I choose to stand for my marrage until he files for divorce. I'd like to think he'll figure it out but if not, I know I did what I could."  At the time, i had no evidence he cheated and that would have also been a line for me. But I was going to be danged if I was going to hide all he did. If he couldnt handle what he had done, I was ok with him being gone. I will never hide poor behavior, quash my feelings, pretend everything is ok when it isn't again. That isn't partnership or compromise.

What is the plus side of not telling people you trust? I get not dumping on every stranger or the gossip mongers That's just crazy anyway. But I don't see an upside to hiding why you've been upset from people you trust. Why would you be embarrassed or uncomfortable? Are you not proud of your stand? (Real question)

[Curiosity]

I think this is a very individual process and would certainly not presume to answer for anyone else. For me, I admit that it is a part of the fixer, the protector… I’m not ashamed of my own decision to stand - I’m proud of keeping my word when I made those promises to my spouse in front of our friends and family. But I know that she has a lot of guilt and shame already about the betrayal, and I know that my family does not easily forgive or move past betrayals, and they aren’t necessarily willing to give a lot of latitude for something like MLC. For me, standing includes keeping the potential path to reconciliation as clear as possible without compromising my own integrity - and that means that I wouldn’t actively lie if asked about our circumstances, and I would have been open with family and other friends had I needed more emotional support than I had from my small circle of closest friends. Had my W been away longer, had she actually gotten into another relationship, had she caused financial destruction or further emotional trauma than she did… my needs might well have been different. And she might still do any of those things, and I would still consider discussing the entirety of the situation with trusted friends and family. But knowing my w and the fact that working through her shame is already a challenge for her, and honestly is something that she might not successfully resolve as it is… I didn’t want to add the shame of knowing that my family knows and is judging her. Perhaps a part of that is still an unhealthy level of protection and fixing - but I feel certain that I am not protecting her at the expense of my own well-being; rather, I have found a support system that allows me to preserve family relationships and leave the path a little clearer than it would otherwise be. As Acorn says, sample of one.

[9393roo]

Off Road,  I tend to agree with Curiosity on this one. Curiosity thank you for sharing so clearly.  My H did not monster, he was never angry, he was never out spending tons of money, he never left. All situations are different.  I should have maybe clarified that in my post. 

For 30 of the 35 years we have been together my H has been a good man.  He had/is having a crisis for sure. Deep in his core I know he has morals and values, he lost all of those during this time.  It was shocking to me and just as shocking to my sisters.  For the first 2 years I cried and tried to explain things to them.  After about a year of this it started to turn into a pity party for Roo.  Every phone call started and ended with this subject.  They were walking in egg shells I could tell they were talking to each other and were highly confused as to why I would stay.  They would tell me they loved me but they were worried about me.  They were losing respect for my H daily.  They didn’t and still don’t understand MLC.  One sister has told me that she feels like I was making excuses for him. 

I guess like curiosity says it may be my fixer/protector problem but I also think that saved my character.  Finding someone or a group of people who understand was life saving for me.  In some ways I may have been protecting him, but I was protecting me as well.  I don’t want people to view me as “poor Roo, she is so naive”.  Talking with people who do not understand was causing this.   

When we spent a few days at the beach together I think my sisters started to see that I was doing what was right for me.  They don’t know all that I went through to get here but they do see a strong, confident Roo.  I think the pity party would have continued if I kept in that path. 

Don’t get me wrong, having a confidant is essential.  One good friend who doesn’t judge, a good therapist who understands MLC, a group of online people who completely get it. 🙂 

I guess what I am trying to say is not everyone understands MLC and sometimes the more you explain the more confusing it gets.  It can do more damage to both your spouse and your integrity.  Don’t know if it cleared it up!  My 2 cents for the day! 

[9393roo]

Off Road, 

Just realized I didn’t answer your question.

Yes, I am proud of my stand.  I wasn’t at the beginning because I was a mess.  I wasn’t proud of my actions, words and responses.  I am more proud of how I feel I kept my integrity for myself.  I am also proud of the grace I have been able to maintain for my H.  It wasn’t always easy.  He is a broken man, breaking him more will serve neither of us.  He has enough struggle dealing with what he has done.  I did and continue to stand but not always still. 

So yes. I am proud and hold my head high while I have compassion for my H. 

[Acorn]

Grace, compassion and integrity.  If I may comment, please?  I personally regard them as some of the most essential ingredients for NonViolent communication.  Passive-aggressive interactions, one-upmanship, firing off truth darts which have nothing to do with upholding your boundaries but to point out how ‘wrong’ the other person is and how he/she can fix him/herself, and other violent ways that inhibit emotional connection could not possibly lead to any forward movement in reconnection, could it, now?  These ‘violent’ ways of communicating wouldn’t work with anyone, let alone MLCer!

Wouldn’t you agree that practicing these on yourself first gives you some ides as to how the other person at the receiving end might feel.  I think one of the ways to practice compassion and grace on yourself might be setting up the boundaries that you can enforce and which protect your dignity. 

You are doing so well, Roo. I am not even talking about how you are handling yourself in reconnection.  It’s about learning more about you, and your own growth.

((((HUGS))))

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Always so much to read and digest. I was reflecting back on the previous thread when you returned from your mother's home and found the house and yard in disarray. You got down to it and mowed the lawn. If I believe correctly, your H arrived as you were completing the lawn.

On the day of the repairs done by you, he made some comments before going off on that strange tangent about you not knowing what a broom closet was and basically making a joke about you being a witch. There is something in his own perception of self that feels attacked when you accomplish traditional "male" tasks. From my perspective, his "humor" really came across not only as odd but as passive aggressive.

Why does your H text female employees. Not only does it provide his need for attention, but feeds his own sense of power and masculinity. His own crisis is that does he want Roo the wife as an equal partner or as a subordinate?

I have been reading articles on decision making and how what we perceive as rational decisions are still impacted and forged within our emotions. We may think we are looking through a crystal clear glass, but instead there are a lot of triggers, bias, and past trauma that blots our view and our decisions. As your H transitions through the crisis and becomes whole again, he really needs to examine his decision making process and how such a smart man can make such poor decision particularly with his wife and his employees.

Really would recommend the book Non Violent Communication.

Thanks, I am going to add that to my list!

Keep moving forward,

((((Ready))))

[OffRoad]

Thank you all so very much for your explanations! I have such a hard time because you can tell people what someone else has done without anger or upset, without making that person you are speaking about into an ogre unless of course their own actions show them to be an ogre. Our own D asked me why I stayed with her father, when he was obviously being a jackhole. See, the outside world can actually see it, so I'd be more concerned the world thought I was a clueless individual and just didn't tell me--Poor Offroad doesn't even see how screwed up her H is and she's still with him type of thing. I would want them to understand I know full well what I am doing and I choose it for X reasons.  They don't have to agree with me. That is where my mind goes. I'm an everything on the table kind of person. "Just the facts, ma'am". It's why MLC, with all the lies and deceit confuses the heck out of me.

As to grace, for me grace isn't covering something up, nor is it sweeping it under the rug. You can address poor behavior with grace. You don't have to tell everyone how "wrong" your mlcer is. I remember telling people facts. What actually happened. Would they maybe think what he had done was wrong? Yes, but again, that's a them problem. When my children would do something wrong, I didn't hide it from anyone else. I made them be responsible for their own actions. To make amends for what they had done. My son wasn't supposed to eat in the living room and spilled grease on the couch? He got to clean it up and he cleaned it as best he could until it barely shows. Otherwise, he'd be owning that stain until the couch gets recovered, so he chose to show he tried. My D didn't call from the bonfire like she was supposed to or answer her phone? I showed up and sent her home.  Very quietly, so that her friends didn't even know I was there, but she had to explain to her friends why she had to leave.  I was not understanding why the MLCers are not held as accountable as children are, not only to us but to the world in general. I'm still not quite sure I do, but I am trying.

I don't disagree with what works for each individual. I would like to at least understand, if it is possible for me to do so. So I truly appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions and that you don't take offense when I really want to see another person's point of view.

[OffRoad]

And Roo, you are doing FABULOUS. Please don't think I am second guessing you. I somehow think if I can listen to enough perspectives, I could make better decisions in general based on having enough information about how someone who is not me might be thinking.

[9393roo]

Thank you Ready and Off Road.


Off Road, no offense taken what so ever.  That’s why we are here to look at situations and see what works for us. 

Ready everything you say is true.  Add in alcohol, and workaholic and you have described my H to a T for the last 5 years.  I hope he can work through it all.  I really do.  He seems to be suffering.  He has a good therapist so that does help. 

Onward and detached I go.  At his family reunion as we speak.  I love his family and they love me.  We had a silent car ride here, had some hiccups before we left.  Not going to let it ruin my fun. 

Forward! 

Roo

[9393roo]

Thought I would drop in for an update.  Seems like some of the 5 plus year members are doing the same.  It’s fascinating to see the different paths reconnection can take and the choices that come along with it.  A common theme seems to be that the MLC struggle does not end with reconnection.  For me it has taken on a new problem, how to put a marriage together when both of us have changed.  In my case, I’m finding that I have changed more than my H.  This is where we are right now.  My H wants our marriage back, wants the old Roo back, wants the life we had back.  For me I feel like I made our old life function by giving and giving, making thing OK when they weren’t.  Making our kids, my husband, and our company a priority over me.  In the end MLC hit and all the pieces of my very codependent puzzle came apart.  My giving did not stop MLC, my attempts to fix my broken H did not stop him from doing his damage, my attempts to control the situation were futile.  I’m seeing all of this now and digging deep into myself.  Not an easy task to do. 

Things for me really started to change about a month ago.  My D 21 was moving back to school after being here all summer, my S 26 was in full wedding planning for a wedding that took place last weekend, My parents were in the middle of a huge struggle with my Dad’s bi polar.  And our company was going through a major tailspin as 3 key people put in their resignations.  My H was a mess.  All of these things formed a major breakdown for me.  I dropped my D off at school after a 4 hour drive.  My S 26 was calling me about helping him solve wedding problems, my sisters were calling me to help solve parent problems and then my H called me with company problems.   I came home from the move and sat down on the floor and cried.  Not just cried, broke down.  Full on break down that I have not experienced since BD #1.  My h called during this breakdown and was so freaked out by it all he came home.  I really thought I was going to have to be taken away.  I could not for the life of me stop all the emotion from flooding out.  I made myself into a ball on the floor of my dark bedroom and this is where my H found me.  He sat down beside me and said he didn’t know what to do.  Everything I have faced in the last 5 years came spilling out of me, everything.  All of the pain all of the anguish, all of it. He didn’t run, he didn’t move, he didn’t say “you are making me feel bad with your feelings” he sat and listened.  For the first time in almost 6 years, he listened and took it in.  He said quietly “look what I have done to you, I’m sorry.”  I told him it wasn’t all him.  We sat for maybe an hour in silence.   

The next day I gathered my pug (Gertrude the MLC dog) and decided to drive to my parents 12 hours away.  My mom needed a break, and I went to stay with my Dad.  My H was scared for me to leave as he felt like I wasn’t in a good state.  It was just the thing I needed.  A long car ride with a pug.  I had downloaded several books awhile ago. And decided to listen to the book Codependent No More by Melody Beattie.  As I drove along and listened, I started to feel like the author was talking to me.  Everything in this book related to me.  Everything.  The more I listened the more I could see just how much I was depending on other people making me feel value.  How much damage giving constantly can cause.  How much my voice had become diminished because I wanted to keep the peace.  I came to the realization that things were not going my way because of me and only me.  It was definitely an Oprah “Ah Ha” moment.   I stayed a few days with my dad and then listened to the book again the whole 12 hours back.  It all started to make perfect sense to me.  I am the only one who can control me.  I am the only one who is responsible for my own happiness.   I started to come out of my codependent tunnel and am working on not going back. 

I’ve read so many times about how both partners have to go through MLC and all it carries with it.  I kind of pushed this aside thinking “Yeah but, my H is the one with the real problem” Never realizing our whole relationship had issues that needed to be solved long before MLC hit.  And yes, I had issues as well (Gulp).   It is a two way street.  We both seem to be working towards healing on our own. 

My H is continuing his weekly therapy which seems to be helping.  I see and hear changes all the time.  He is settling down and growing up.  All of his compartmentalized boxes he sealed tight are slowly opening.  Emotions and empathy come out when I’m least expecting them to.  Sometimes he looks at me like he hasn’t seen me in 4 years.  Sometimes I get an apology when I’m least expecting it.  He is changing in a good way.  I think he is starting to realize as well that we can’t go back to our old marriage.  I am hoping we get something new from all of this.  I am hoping we both continue to make the choice to stick it out while it forms.  We both still have a lot of work to do.  We do know we love each other and have a 36 year history together.   It may not end up how I imagined it, maybe it will be better as we each become better people. 

On a side note.  My S 26 got married last weekend almost 6 years from when my S 28 got married.  It was interesting to note how different I was at these two weddings.  At S28 wedding, I was starting to suspect my H was having an affair.  I had lost 10 pounds that I couldn’t afford to lose.  In the pictures there is a look of fear, anxiety, and sadness in my eyes.  My H had just started his step into the fog.  I had no idea that what lay ahead.  We just got the pictures back from last weekend and I am so proud of how I look.  I look happy, strong, and confident.  My sister told me I looked like a warrior.  I kind of felt like one.  I’m stronger mentally, physically and spiritually than I have ever been.  S30 just got engaged and is planning a wedding next fall. (All fall weddings for some reason) It will be interesting to see where I am at that time.  No matter where I am, I do know that I am going to be ok. 

As a fixer in recovery, I hope all you other fixers out there find your way.  My horoscope the other day was so easy but so fitting, it read “They are not appliances, you cannot fix them”   

Wishing you all the best as you navigate through this life changing time.   

[Curiosity]

Wow, Roo. What an incredible update. I have thought of the LBS journey as a mostly gradual process; not always smooth, but usually spared from the massive ups and downs of the MLC roller coaster… at least, once we manage to detach. But more and more, it seems like reconnection stories include these moments of realization of the scope of the changes that will need to occur - whether the necessary changes are in one or both people. And as scary as the initial BD and detachment are, the wanting to reattach and reconnect while not knowing how to proceed… that seems like a whole different kind of uncertainty.

[9393roo]

Well, Didn't think I would update so soon but I'm back with a major movement.   Right after I posted on here, I got the results back from my annual exam and pap smear.  I tested positive for HPV.  I was shocked to say the least.  We have spent the last year dealing with my niece who found out she had cervical cancer while pregnant.  She has HPV.  So HPV in our house is big and scary.  Believe me it has been a wake up call. (I just found out more results and it is good news no cancerous cells and it will just be watched with yearly paps)   My H who has never admitted more than an emotional affair and inappropriate behavior now has confessed the year long affair with OW1 it ended 4 years ago.  Not shocking to me what so ever.  I knew from the beginning this was the case.  He decided to handle it by not handling it and pretending it didn't happen.  He is no longer able to do that.  We have entered new waters and he is facing head on the damage that his actions have now had on me.  He is beside himself and I am calm.  I have done all the work processing the affair for the last 6 years he now has to do the same.  He is taking complete responsibility and will do anything or answer any question I have.  We have talked for 2 days about everything that has happened the last 6 years.  He talks about being in a "Fog"  he talks about not even thinking about me or our family.  He talks about the fact that he has done the unimaginable to me and I am the last person in the world who deserved any of this.  I told him he is right.  Now I get to deal with the results of what he has done. 

I have this very strange feeling of calm.  Acceptance?  The truth setting me free?  I've done all the hard work dealing with the aftermath of betrayal.  He has much to do.  He says he doesn't know what to do and my response is you continue to fix yourself, which he has been doing fairly diligently the last 6 months.  He talks about his actions impacting so many people.  He has kept it hidden from himself because the pain would be too great.  There is no hiding now, he knows that.  There is no taking back anything he has done, there is no making it ok.  There are no more excuses.  We will see where this takes him now.  He is stripped down to his core and needs to rebuild. 

I'm pulling this quote over from Barbies thread from Off Road

I kind of liken it to "I can't admit to all I have done because then you will know how defective I am or think I am and I will see reflected in your eyes the reality of what my actions have caused, which will make me feel horrible and I don't want to feel that way, so admitting anything to you makes me feel unsafe in my own skin."

 

My H said this to me almost word for word last night.  He thought he could keep it all hidden.   It's out in the open now and no putting it back. 

I am ok and moving forward.  He has a mountain to climb to forgive himself.  He finally wants to start. 

Just a public service announcement for the women on this site.  Get your Pap Smears regularly.  HPV can remain dormant for up to 10-12 years.  It is silent and it can be deadly. 

Forward because backwards is no longer an option for me. 

[Treasur]

I am so very sorry, Roo.
Pleased to hear that the latest test showed no cancerous cells, but still I am so sorry.

[9393roo]

Thank you Tresaur,  I appreciate your words. 

I have come to realize that in reconnection we were missing a big piece of the puzzle.  I see it in Barbie’s thread as well.  If the MLCer does not fully take responsibility and forgive themselves they get stuck in a big way.  To deny what happened, to not address what brought them to that point and to shove it all under the rug hoping it won’t come out created a roadblock in my case.  I’m hoping this all starts to clear the path for a new life now.  I do feel a difference.

I watched a lot of these affair recovery videos when I was going through the processing of the affair on my own years ago.  I found these two and sent them to my H who sat and watched them last night on his own.  (I’m not fixing here, I mentioned them in one of our talks and he asked for them….trying to stay a fixer in recovery🙂)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7vVYmDljGyU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mkRdVrhA_6s

He has counseling today and mentioned he has a lot to talk about.  He is doing the work he needs to do and I am doing the work I need to do as well.  Life feels calmer, more mature and empathy is once again flowing from each of us.   

It kind of feels like we have both been through he!! and there might be some light.  Reconnection is no fairy tale.  It’s hard work.  All of MLC is hard work.

 Wishing all of you peace as you navigate through it.

[Curiosity]

I am sorry that you are in the position of dealing with this. You seem to be calm and strong, moving forward with what you need to do and not in denial.

The point about how reconnection can’t really move forward until the MLCer takes responsibility and forgives himself or herself - that really makes sense. That’s the biggest reason that I have to doubt that we are meaningfully reconnecting in my marriage… I don’t know if she has done both of these things, or if she hasn’t forgiven herself because she hasn’t accepted responsibility for the damage she caused.

I don’t think there’s anything so wrong with being a fixer that you should try to completely suppress that tendency… in moderation, it can be more of a supportive, caretaker tendency. As long as we let the other person lead the way, I think it can be a good thing. Or maybe that’s my bias as a fellow fixer.

[9393roo]

Thanks Curiosity!

I don’t think there’s anything so wrong with being a fixer that you should try to completely suppress that tendency… in moderation, it can be more of a supportive, caretaker tendency. As long as we let the other person lead the way, I think it can be a good thing. Or maybe that’s my bias as a fellow fixer.

I agree.  Fixing and caretaking is part of who I am.  As long as I am aware that I do these things because I want to, not for others to validate me or for me to control the situation,  I think they are a good thing. 

[OffRoad]

I would like to caution that fixing other people's issues can deny them their own opportunities for growth if you are not careful. In Roo's case here, if he asked, she sent. That is not fixing. However, if one party makes all the IC appointments for the other person,  that is not requiring them to be their own adult and could be looked at as fixing someone's inability to do adult things.

There is nothing wrong with doing caring things (example: bringing a snack for another when you are getting one for yourself). That is different from doing things because the other person will not or is inapable and does not try to solve their own issues.

It sounds like your H is beginning to understand he needs to fix himself, roo. That sounds good.

[9393roo]

You are very correct OR.  I have been guilty of making those therapy appointments, making the MC appointments, trying to get him to see he was in a crisis.  Books, videos, long drawn out emails and letters.  Trying to make him talk, trying to wake him up and make him see.  I know know how futile all of that was.  I could have saved myself so much anguish by letting go and leaving him be.

Something interesting to note.  My H has been in IC for 8 months now.  Sessions have been Friday mornings.  I have kept my distance Friday’s and Saturdays from him as he seemed to process what was said in counseling.  Sometimes he would be horrible as he processed.  Gaslighting, projecting.  Trying to make sense of his actions by making me to blame.  I learned how to detach especially those days.  Never once have I asked him about therapy, he did not share.  Last night we were eating dinner and he started to talk.  He told me that Friday he told his counselor all about the HPV diagnosis and he had a breakdown.  His counselor told him he was waiting for this breakdown as he knows he has kept it all down to stay in control of his situation.  He also told him that this is where the real work begins.  My H told me he is ready to do the real work now.  He also thanked me again for giving him the space to do this work. 

I honestly don’t think we would be at this crossroads if we both weren’t at a place of acceptance.  I had to go through all the stages of grief and many times I thought I would be stuck in either anger or despair.  It’s hard work to focus on yourself.  I told my H this last night.  I told him I understood how hard it is.  Really the only way out is through. 

Maybe we are coming to a new level of healing?  Whatever the outcome of this level, I know I will be ok. It’s taken me awhile to realize this.  But I will. 

Forward!

[Sunandshade]

Hi Roo, this progress is really amazing. This level of self-awareness seems to elude so many MLCers, although it all hurts he is finding his way out with courage. Try not to beat yourself up about being nurturing.

[KeepItTogether]

Hi Roo. Wow--so much has happened. And all at once it seems.

I am so relieved there are no cancerous cells, but still a very scary thing.

Hearing about that "fog" H was in, and that he didn't even think of you or the family while there, really resonates with me. It makes sense though. The man who is with you now, the one who is terrified of hurting you any more, could likely not do the things the "one" in the fog did. And yet they are one and the same. Quintessential MLC. It is really great that he is in therapy.

And you, the reformed fixer. Nice work! Not an easy addiction to beat is it? I am still working on my own. LOL.

You sound great. It is a pretty amazing thing that you are able to heal in the way you have, while a live-in MLCer is in the picture. I cannot even fathom. You are awesome!

[barbiedoll]

I have come to realize that in reconnection we were missing a big piece of the puzzle.  I see it in Barbie’s thread as well.  If the MLCer does not fully take responsibility and forgive themselves they get stuck in a big way.  To deny what happened, to not address what brought them to that point and to shove it all under the rug hoping it won’t come out created a roadblock in my case.

.

Yes. Huge roadblock that blocks the path to recovery.  I am sooo happy that perhaps your roadblock has started to shift .

ou are very correct OR.  I have been guilty of making those therapy appointments, making the MC appointments, trying to get him to see he was in a crisis.  Books, videos, long drawn out emails and letters.  Trying to make him talk, trying to wake him up and make him see.  I know know how futile all of that was.  I could have saved myself so much anguish by letting go and leaving him be.

.

Yes. A ton of anguish.

[9393roo]

Thanks Sun, KIT and Barbie. 

H continues to show signs of acceptance and remorse, I’m trying to continue to live my life and move forward.  We made plans last night to go back to the town where BD#1 happened.  Overseas and I flew us home after BD only being there a day.  We have both decided we need a redo.  We talked about it for a bit last night.  We both don’t want it to become a place of sadness, plus it’s a really cool city and I want to explore it.  Beginning to tackle the triggers and not letting them take me down anymore.

The man who is with you now, the one who is terrified of hurting you any more, could likely not do the things the "one" in the fog did. And yet they are one and the same. Quintessential MLC. It is really great that he is in therapy.

This is mind boggling sometimes. He was living the life of two people.  He is starting to come to terms with that and figure out who he is as an individual.  He is calmer than he has been in almost 6 years and he seems determined to figure himself out.  That’s all I can ask for right now. 

[9393roo]

Good Morning HS.  (Morning where I am).

Thought I would add an update as things seem to be shifting almost daily around here.  After the HPV diagnosis another layer of awareness has been peeled off the MLC onion, and it continues. 

Before my H had therapy on Friday we sat down together at the breakfast table and started to talk.  H started to get squirmy as usual so I didn’t push too much.  He again told me that he would tell me anything I needed to know.  So, I started asking questions.  They weren’t the questions I thought I would ask (I thought I would want to  know more about his physical relationships- don’t want to)) but they were about timelines and events that he tried to gaslight me on.  I think in my mind I just needed to validate the fact that I wasn’t crazy.  He did lots and lots of gaslighting, projecting and cake eating over the last 6 years.  He did validate what I thought all along and it wasn’t easy for him.  He didn’t run though.  He then stepped into therapy and after that had a breakdown.  He refused to talk to me the rest of the day, ended up skipping work and going to his garage the rest of the day.  (He NEVER skips work) He was cold and short with me in any interaction.  I tried to stay away. 

Friday night I didn’t sleep well and Saturday I woke up with this burning anger in my chest.  Something I haven’t felt in quite awhile.  My H had slept in our spare room and got up early and went for a run.  I decided I needed to do something, so put in my running shoes and went for a run as well.  I listened to angry music and cried and thought about what I was going to do.  I felt like my H was once again going backwards, I was tired of this and I was done.  I have been dealing with MLC for 6 years now (5.5 since BD) and I was so angry that I’m still in this place.  I was tired of detachment, tired of empathy tired of giving it “time”. I was now in the position of needing my H to either commit or leave.  There was not going to be anymore half way for me. 


I got home from my run and decided yo talk to my H.   I started the conversation by letting him know that I know that he is really struggling right now.  I said I am struggling too.  This HPV thing added another layer to get through and I can’t continue to get through it on my own.  I can’t have him shutting down when things get rough, I can’t have him disappear.  I told him I wasn’t going to live in a detached marriage anymore and if he was here he needed to commit to be a partner in fixing us. 

He sat quietly for a minute. And then told me he was on his way downstairs to apologize to me for not talking.  He said he was wrong.  He said therapy was overwhelming and he just shut down.   I told him I understood and we made a pact to let each other know when we need a break from talking and a chance to regroup. 

He also wanted me to know that none of this was ever about the OW, none of it was about me.  It was all about him and his ego.  He didn’t care about who he hurt as long as he was feeling good.  All seems to be textbook MLC.  Running, hurting, not caring about the destruction. 

So many be one more corner turned in healing?  One more layer of forgiveness and understanding each other.  Yesterday I booked myself a volunteer trip to another country with some people I have met while GALing.  So excited.  I see a light of a new life with my H where we both are individuals who have individual lives, but are committed partners who want to grow old together.  Finally breaking through more codependency to find more peace. 

Wishing you all peace and calm as you weather this horrible MLC storm. 

[xyzcf]

Thank you Roo for sharing this with us.

It is hard for us to have any idea what it is like to be in their shoes. The insight that you are providing is very helpful.

Wishing you peace. That is what I am always striving for is just quiet and peace and no more hurt.

[Treasur]

Just wanted to say congratulations, Roo, about getting to a place where you could speak your reality without venom but also without shading it for someone else’s consumption. That is no mean feat, it probably took some courage and I salute you for it.

[Curiosity]

Congratulations, Roo. More and more, it seems like this is a long-term (perhaps lifelong) learning curve; but it does feel like a big “eureka” moment when the LBS comes to realize just how much independence is likely to be a part of the relationship going forward. I don’t know if that’s the same for people who move on and get into new relationships, and of course we are each a sample of one (™ Acorn). But it feels like, much like detachment happens in layers, fully overcoming codependency and actually cherishing one’s independence even within the framework of a committed partnership… that’s such a big part of all of this.

[9393roo]

Hello,

Thought I would update my thread to share my reconnection journey so far.  I want to thank Barbie and Song for sharing their reconnection stories as it has helped me so much see that reconnection isn’t easy or straightforward and just because the insanity of replay has stopped, MLC still has a long way to go.  Defiantly not rainbows and unicorns over here! 

Going from the gift of hindsight I would say that the end of replay started around Oct 2020.  Things were not going well in my H’s fantasy and the party was coming to an ugly end.  (Most of my H’s replay antics had happened in another state that he traveled to) He was cycling wildly, and I started to look for a divorce attorney as he seemed to be headed down a slippery slope to rock bottom.  He did what he always does and turned back to me to fix things.  Talked me into going into marriage counseling yet again.  (3rd time) This time he found the counselor and he was/is incredible.  We spend Oct 2020-Feb with this counselor.  It was so frustrating, but the therapist was good and really dug into things.  I thought we were making some headway. I had no idea what my H was really hiding until the end of Feb 2021 when an employee threatened a sexual harassment lawsuit.   I had been so detached I didn’t see that one coming.  From there much more came spilling out, the damages of all the replay were being displayed almost daily.  An alcohol problem, a texting women problem a need for constant attention problem.  I quit marriage counseling and told my H that our marriage was not the issue, he was the issue.  I told him that if he didn’t start facing his demons on his own I wasn’t staying.  So began the start of his own counseling (Our former marriage counselor-who is fantastic) and his work to get himself out of the tunnel.  It has not been quick, and it has not been easy.  I’ve had to detach at moment’s notice and I’ve had to deal with all of the information I was getting about his hidden replay crap.  We went through the summer and into fall with him going to weekly counseling sessions on Friday’s and him being horrible to me on Saturdays.  I continued to try to focus on myself while keeping his tornado in my peripheral vison.   Back and forth and sideways as he continues to deal with himself.  In September 2021 I got the news that I had HPV.  The affair that my H had tried so hard not to accept happened had a real consequence on me.  It opened another can of worms as I continued to face it all as well.   More and more came out and I have had to deal with another round of triggers.  I believe he has nothing left to hide (Who really knows) and had to finally start facing himself.  We spent that fall going forward and I saw the man he used to be so much more.  Our son got married in October and it was awesome my H was kind and attentive and emotional.  In December we took a trip together and he really opened up, telling me how much he loved me, telling me how much he was so thankful I was with him.  I didn’t realize it then, but I was getting all sorts of expectations. 

2022 started horribly.  My H who I thought was coming forward through the tunnel receded back in.  He decided to get a ride from the OW #1 alone to a meeting they were both going to (The biggest boundary of mine) He just mentioned it in passing and I was shocked.  He continued to do little things that he used to do in replay and started acting like a teenaged boy around me again.  I was crushed (Stupid expectations) I spent most of January in my own pity party, I was so angry with myself for thinking once again that he was headed out. I have had to take a step back once again and regain my footing.  I redid our garage apartment and stayed there a couple of days and asked him not to talk to me.  I now have it as my place when I need the space. 

Here we sit today.  I am back into detachment; he keeps coming towards me expecting me to fix him.  I don’t anymore.  He is on his own with fixing his own problems and he is struggling wildly.  He feels sorry for himself and then catches it.  He is in no way shape or form able to have a good honest reciprocal relationship with anyone.  I see so much when I step back.  All of the replay has come to an end and it has depressed him.  I’m trying to keep my head on straight and focus on my own life.  I’m running, have a new business venture, have my MLC pug Gertrude, talk to my great kids almost daily and focusing on health and happiness.  I’ve turned my fixing ways to the foster kids I am representing in court as their advocate.  I’m getting back my self-worth and self-value that I’ve worked so hard retrieving the last few years. 
 
I have no idea where this marriage is heading.  I do however know that it will not be heading back to the way we were 35 years ago when we started.  We both have changed.  I think I’m on my way to figuring out who I am now, my H has a way to go.  Wondering if when he does if we will fit.  Right now, I don’t know who he is, what I see in front of me is not what I want the rest of my life.   

6 years in and here we are.  We are both facing ourselves now.  (Even through it feels sometimes that he tries very hard not to)  It’s slow and sometimes very painful.  I’m not afraid of the future like I used to be.  Letting go and focusing on myself has given me my power back.  I am in control of myself and I have choices.   Moving myself forward. 

Sending hugs to all of you just starting this journey.  So hard and so incredibly painful.  I hope you all find your way back to yourselves, that’s where you will find your healing. 

[UrsaMajor]

Dear Roo,

Your description (like Song's and Barbie's) lays it all out on the line and in the open. It is NOT an easy journey and not one for the faint of heart. I can only hope that your H will continue to extract his head from his .... fog... sooner rather than later...

UM

[rosetintedglasses]

Thanks for sharing Roo.

Glad you are finding yourself.

My H left and although it seemed harder, it was easier to detach and find myself so I’m really happy you are at this stage. It’s very liberating.

Rose 🌹

[PJ Ames]

Thanks for the update Roo. You sound very healthy, calm and clear-eyed. And patient!

[KeepItTogether]

Roo your story always amazes me in how much is resembles my own. Of course I have not experienced it first hand as you have with a live in. I am quite sure I would be locked up by now if my H never left. I have always admired your patience and ability to detach. Pretty amazing really. Here's to hoping there is more of that forward progress for you both. Such a long and windy path this is. Not for the feint of heart that is for sure

[Music45]

So many similarities here too Roo. You sound...good.
(((Hugs)))

[Dragonfly33]

Roo your story is very inspiring. I can relate to almost everything you said. It takes a lot of strength to detach yourself and like you said, it’s not an easy journey. I am now on my third year and I don’t think I can do what you did. I kicked out my H last January before he can do the next BD. Probably I was too scared to be in that same situation on his first BD. For me, the distance has helped me a lot to conquer my fears of being alone. But despite that, being alone still feels lonely. I sometimes miss my old H. But I don’t check on him anymore. I used to check on the sports app what he’s doing and where he was. I don’t do that anymore.

[9393roo]

Hello all,

Thought I would update.  No earth shattering news (Thank goodness!!) just wanted to share my reconnection process where we sit right now.   Things are still moving forward in my world.  The past few months have brought something new to our relationship, we are finally talking about it all.  Slowly and calmly.  I’ve realized in the past year as things have started to settle down with my H he was trying his hardest to push all that has happened during MLC away.  Pretend it never happened and wanted to start right back up where we left off over 7 years ago.  In some ways so did I.  Realizing now that we are both conflict avoiders.  Also have realized that the more you push the bad away and don’t deal with it all, it’s going to show itself somewhere.  It has shown itself several times and we are both learning how to talk about it calmly and reasonably.  We have gone back and forth on if we wanted to go to marriage counseling again, but both of us have decided we don’t.  We are navigating communication ourselves and finding what works.  The main thing is we are talking now, and that is big.  As we talk, we both are still in the process of cleaning up our own sides of the street.  My H goes to weekly counseling, and I continue to do the things that help me with my own trauma: meditating, running and traveling.  I know that we are not supposed to stage watch (I’ve learned this the hard way) often I will go back and read certain things that make so much sense to me now.  Hearts Blessing posted this article, and it very much pertains to our situation:
 
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-first-healing-stage-the-settling-down-process/

As we have been talking, I am realizing just how much my H doesn’t remember.  We will talk about something that happened to me during this time and he doesn’t remember any of it.  When I remind him of things he often will start to tear up and shake his head.  We calmly talk through it.  He will often go to the garage and putter around and come back in and tell me how sorry he is.  We both know that conversations where I explode, and he shuts down don’t do either of us any good.  We have the option to call a time out before that happens.  A few weeks ago we had a conversation and it turned into both of us saying “Maybe we should separate” My H had a therapy appointment that day and came back later and said. “I don’t want to separate; separation is just running away from what needs to be dealt with” I was shocked with his clarity.  We are both making the decision now to “deal” with it. 

Dealing with all of it doesn’t happen all the time.  We are making time to not deal with it as well and learning to laugh and love again.  We recently took a trip to Mexico and ended up in a bar singing Karaoke.  We laughed and laughed.  A guy sitting next to us asked if we just got married!  We both looked at each other and laughed.  He was shocked when we told him it will be 35 years in September. 

Life is moving forward all around us.  My youngest D (who was 16 at the time of BD)  will be graduating from college next week and will be moving across the country for an amazing job. My oldest son (31) will be getting married in September and my other two sons are secure and stable with their lives.  I continue to do some work with our company, but also am finding other things to focus on as well. I’m traveling to Tanzania in Sept with a volunteer group and just finished redoing a rental house that we have.  Pretty proud of all the skills I have learned as an LBS.  My H is shocked that I can do what I do.  I watched you tube videos and refinished a bathtub!

Life is good and life is calming.  It’s all going forward at a slow pace, but it is moving forward.  I’m learning to lean into it, learn from it and be happy with it.  Learning to control what I can and let go of the rest.  Things have changed in our marriage.  I think we are both growing up.  I think that maybe we will spend the rest of our lives changing and growing, we have made the commitment to do this together. 

Sending big hugs to all of you who are going through this.  All of the advice I took away from so many people on here saved me so many times.  I hope you all are able to find peace in whatever form that takes.  This journey will change so many things and you will need to change along with it, it took me a very long time to figure this out. 

[Curiosity]

Thank you for updating, Roo. It’s comforting to hear that there’s nothing earth-shattering and that reconnection is going along calmly. I know each story is different, but that does seem to be a recurring theme. Maybe that’s the way it’s always going to be - BD, like most destructive things, is a sudden occurrence and a shock to the system. Even when in hindsight you can see that it wasn’t sudden, the explosion was. But building something, and that includes rebuilding, has to be slow and deliberate. Measure twice, cut once and all that. And the need for marriage counseling, I think varies widely… as does the need for individual counseling for one or both people.

I am glad to hear that your h and the life and people around you are all going well, and I am especially glad to hear that your life is good and calming.

[xyzcf]

Thank you Roo for updating.All the best in this "new" marriage for you both.

I find it fascinating to see how similar the reconnection stories go, and heartsblessing's comments on this that verify this pattern.  I have seen it several times in couples who have reconnected. Like the pattern of MLC, there truly does seem to be a pattern that they follow as they "wake up" to the realization of what has happened.

As we have been talking, I am realizing just how much my H doesn’t remember.  We will talk about something that happened to me during this time and he doesn’t remember any of it.  When I remind him of things he often will start to tear up and shake his head.

This too is very common. I often read on HS how they "know what they are doing" and I do not believe that they really totally do. They are driven by something deep and internal and many are shocked by things that they did over the years.

If you can both talk through things, and face squarely the issues, then indeed MC isn't necessary..because ultimately you know each other best...and as heartsblessing also always said "where there is love, there is hope".

Nice to hear things are going well!!!

[Evermore]

This is such a lovely update Roo. Like the others I see similarities in your story with other reconnection stories. It seems to need genuine calmness and peace within the LBS before it can begin. And then also a calmness that grows in the MLCer. I get the same vibe in all the stories I read where a successful reconnection happens. I guess just like the perfect storm of ‘causes’ that all contribute to the MLC happening in the first place, there also needs to be a perfect storm of current ‘states of being’, maybe?, that allows a successful reconnection. The LBS needs to be healed enough to be genuinely calm and controlled. The MLCer has to be ‘through’ enough to start to reflect on, face, and then work through their issues. The connection had to have been close enough pre-MLC  for the couple to consider another try. There can’t have been ‘too much damage’ done during the MLC. Etc. The sense that you are on that road shines through. I’m so happy for you and your H and your family.

[9393roo]

Thanks Curiosity, XYZCF and Evermore,  It's nice to always have support from all on this group.  Defiantly not rainbows and unicorns here, but at least the Bat S*%$ crazy has ended!   

 

But building something, and that includes rebuilding, has to be slow and deliberate. Measure twice, cut once and all that. And the need for marriage counseling, I think varies widely… as does the need for individual counseling for one or both people.

Rebuilding is defiantly slow.  This was something I had to learn.  I thought my H would just "come to his senses" and we would live on our merry way.  Not how it is at all.  It has been full of stops and starts and hurt and loss.  It is also starting to feel like there is hope for a new beginning.   Measure twice cut once was what my dad used to always say!  .  Marriage Counseling has been interesting.  We have been to a total of 4 in the last 6 years.  It was a huge bust while my H was in replay. Loads of lies.  Right now, the thought of going to a marriage counselor and explaining the last 6 years makes me sick to my stomach.  My H's IC used to be our marriage counselor and he has been passing along some tips and tools for moving forward.  Quite helpful.  I still see my IC when I feel like I need it.  Sometimes we just need a refresher. 

This too is very common. I often read on HS how they "know what they are doing" and I do not believe that they really totally do. They are driven by something deep and internal and many are shocked by things that they did over the years.

Something I'm seeing more and more as we talk.  My H is shocked at some of the things I tell him.  He tears up often when we talk.  I'm very calm about it all now and it's more like a matter of fact talk.  He is working his way through this.  Opening those closed compartments and dealing with them at his own pace. 

It seems to need genuine calmness and peace within the LBS before it can begin

Very true in my case.  I spent a lot of the past year in pain.  Loads of triggers, loads of trauma.  I am a reactionary person who is trying to get this under control.  I was expecting my H to deal with my trauma while dealing with his own.  He would shut down.  Taking responsibility for our own emotions has been a big thing.  We talked about that just this am.  We are going on a road trip in a few weeks and are going to listen to Non Violent Communication once again (Thanks Acorn)  All about how to talk along with take responsibility for ourselves. 

The LBS needs to be healed enough to be genuinely calm and controlled. The MLCer has to be ‘through’ enough to start to reflect on, face, and then work through their issues.

YES^^^^^

The last few days we have had some really good talks.   A couple of nights ago I had a complete breakdown about my D graduating and moving away.  She was my one kid left in the house when BD hit.  She was 16 and hated her dad and hated me for staying with her dad.  We went though a horrible 2 years  until I got detachment down and I turned my focus on helping her.  The last 4 years we have grown into really having an amazing relationship.  She has only been 2 hours away and I would often take our Pug Gertie down to see her on a whim.  She has been a big distraction for me during all of this.  Knowing that she is going to be far away is hitting me hard.  (None of our 4 kids live close)  I started to cry the other night and my H hugged me and said. "You still have me"  It was nice to hear. 

Hugs to all.  You have an amazing  community here full of amazing people who know just what you are going through.  Listen and take away advice. Also cut yourself some slack when you feel like you are falling backwards.  It's all part of the learning process. 

[FaithWalker]

Roo, so good to read an update.  Hugs back atcha!  Great advice here.

Hugs to all.  You have an amazing  community here full of amazing people who know just what you are going through.  Listen and take away advice. Also cut yourself some slack when you feel like you are falling backwards.  It's all part of the learning process. 

[9393roo]

Hello HS family.

Thought I would send out an update as it’s been a almost 6 months since the last one.  Lots of changes with our family the past 6 months.  My D (youngest of 4) is now 23 graduated from University and landed a great job many states away. This was more difficult on me then I imagined it would be.  She was the only one of my children who was in the home when MLC started (She was 16 at the time)  She and I formed a very close bond.  Her school was only 2 hours away and now she is across the country.  I went through a big empty nest grief that I wasn’t expecting,as all of my children have left our state.  I talk to her daily.  She also is beginning to heal with her Dad.  He tells me about the texts and phone calls he has with her.  I stay completely out of their relationship, but I can see a new bond beginning to form.  This out of everything makes me so incredibly happy.  He missed so much, and their relationship was broken.   I am so thankful they both are working towards something better and I am not involved in making it happen. 

My oldest S (31) got married in September.  I was a big part of the wedding as that is what my new job is, event planning and coordination.  During MLC all 3 of my sons got married.  My S (29) was married young at the beginning of MLC.  Right before BD and I knew walking down the aisle with my H that something was very wrong. At the reception he was trying to dance with all the bridesmaids and made pretty much an A$$ out of himself.  My 3rd S (27) was married last October.  We were still early on in reconnecting.  My H was pretty stoic and subdued, shut down and depressed.  This last wedding my H was so helpful and emotional.  During the ceremony I looked over and he was a bucket of tears.  We had a great time at the reception, he held my hand often and told me what a good job I had done with the wedding and what a good Mom I have been to our children.   A friend joked the other day how my son’s weddings were like bookends to MLC.  Beginning, middle and end. 

As for my H and I, we continue down the path of healing.  None of it has been easy, none of it has been linear.  We both continue to heal ourselves along with healing our relationship.  We both have been tempted to throw in the towel and call it quits many times.  We were stuck for about 5 months in the cycle of me stuck in trauma and him stuck in shame shut down.  We couldn’t talk about what had happened to us because our cycle was horrible.  We both were living pretty much separate lives, very surface relationship.  It was not good, and I often questioned “What is the point?” We both decided we could not fix us without help.  We started up MC again (5th time is a charm right !)  I was so skeptical as we had been down this path before.  This time was different.  We are using his IC as our MC now and he is wonderful.  He is opening both of us up and we are talking more than we ever have.  It has taken some time, but we seem to be headed down a better path.  We are both committed to fixing us, we are both there because we want to be.  Slowly we are finding our way. 
I think that maybe I am going through a midlife transition.  My coffee shop closed in Covid and I had to reinvent myself a bit.  I have a lot more time to myself and am liking my own company!  I am doing event planning and keeping busy with being an advocate for kids in foster care. Gertie, my MLC pug and I are very close.  Best decision I made during my H’s MLC. I’ve done lots of work on digging into my own past (Not easy) and seeing the things in me that needed to be changed.  I’ve stopped fixing everyone and everything around me.  I’ve stopping thinking that I have control of situations when I don’t.  On some levels I’m so much calmer than I used to be, and on some levels I am more vocal than ever.  This is something new in our marriage as I now speak up and let my real feelings be known.  Hard for my H to get used to.  We have more arguments now that we ever did in our marriage.  They aren’t loud and angry, we are learning to discuss.  I’ve spent a lot of time helping my aging parents who live 2 states away.  My 90 year old Dad is battling bi-polar and my mom as very little patience left to deal with him.  I just spent 2 weeks in the house I grew up in and slept in my childhood bed.  Lots of FOO issues came up, looking into those now.  Working on forgiving myself for allowing my H’s MLC drive so many decisions.  We both were clinging boomerangs. 

My H is moving forward as well.  The more I am calm the more he comes towards me.  I see so many of his good qualities coming back.  I forget sometimes that he needs to hear this.  His emotions are coming back, his empathy is coming back.  It has been slow for sure.  I realize now that I was pushing him into a quicker healing, this was setting him back.  He talks about his MLC as “The time I went off the deep end”  He knows the damage he did.  He shared with me the other night that our D called him for some financial advice at the end of the call she said “Thanks Dad, I love you” He said that was the first time in 7 years she has said it first.  He teared up.  I’m learning that the pain and suffering he went through was great.  He can only process so much at a time.  The overwhelming sense of shame can be consuming.  Giving him room is the best thing I can do. 

Just like MLC is different for everyone, I think reconnection is as well.  I continue to read here often and see so much of myself in the reconnection stories posted.  So thankful this site still exists as it saved me during the darkest times.   Keep moving forward with yourselves and control only what you can.  If you have children, hold them tight and be the rock for them.   

[UrsaMajor]

Thanks for coming back Roo and letting us know how things are going. Reconnection/reconciliation are not easy paths and not for the faint of heart.... Won't be too long and we'll be changing your icon to pink I think....

[FaithWalker]

Great to hear from your Roo.  Interesting about the book end weddings and I'm so glad that the two of you are moving towards each other now and glad that the MC is helping here in the aftermath of MLC.  Thinking so many positive thoughts for you as you reconnect!

[9393roo]

Hello,

Thought I would do an update since there has been more movement in my life, peeling back the many layers of reconnection with my H.
 
The holidays came and went and they were all good.  Lots of family lots of fun and something I began noticing more and more, lots of alcohol.   In December, My H and I seemed to be in a good place and mutually decided that we would stop MC for a bit.  We thought we were communicating better until we weren’t.  Mid-January and February I began to see shifts in my H again.  Working nonstop and drinking daily to let down at the end of the day.  We both were busy, and I started to notice we stopped focusing on our relationship and making sure it was getting nurtured.  I was feeling neglected and asked to go back to MC.  H said he really didn’t want to go anymore.  This wasn’t working for me.  We started to argue more and more and communication was in a break down.  I had to leave town for a week to help take care of my dad while my mom went on a vacation, and my H went into massive breakdown mode.  He had to travel to the town where OW 1 lives and where he still has business and decided to drown his stress and not dealing with himself with some binge drinking.  I got caught on his roller coaster and started to spiral.  I ended up talking to him when he was really drunk and told him I wasn’t going to watch him implode again.  I told him this was not what I had envisioned my life to be at 58 and it was not the way I was going to continue.  I didn’t realize how much he had fallen in the previous months, trying instead to focus on myself.   He came home on his own and got in contact with AA. (I had nothing to do with this-all on his own)  He has been sober for almost 3 weeks now and attending meetings.  His sobriety has so far made a HUGE impact on our relationship and on him personally.  He has come to terms that he is an alcoholic and has been for quite some time.  We are taking life day by day now, but a sense of calm seems to have come over both of us.  Hoping it can continue but knowing I am going to be ok if it doesn’t. 

When he joined AA I decided to join Al-Anon.  So far its been a pretty incredible program.  I see so much of what is taught here on HS being put into action by so many.  “Let go and let God”  “Control what you can” and do a complete inventory of yourself.  Seeing how much alcohol has been an issue we both have avoided has been eye opening.  I highly recommend this program to anyone who has an alcoholic in their life. 
 
Still continuing to work on myself and my codependent ways.  Taking back my life while my H continues to regain his.  The other night he said to me.  “I’m going to be a better man”  I responded “We are going to be better people” 

Continuing movement forward.  It really comes down to taking responsibility for yourself in the end. 

Sending you all hugs as you navigate MLC and beyond. 

[MadLuv]

Thank you for coming back to update. Always so interesting to get these updates

[UrsaMajor]

H admitting to being an alcoholic is a MAJORLY big deal and hopefully the beginnings of his recovery!

Nice to get an update!

UM

[9393roo]

Thanks Mad and Ursa,

Huge seems to be an understatement when it comes to sobriety in my case.  Daily now my H is opening up in ways I never thought would happen.  I just passed my 7th BD anniversary.  I have almost given up on this relationship so many times.  In January and February I was thinking "Is this it? after all that we have been through is this the marriage I am going to have to live with?"  I was making plans to end it and possibly separate.  I am learning now that we really have no control over anything our spouse choses to do, none.   

It honestly feels like a whole new road we are on.  We are talking more than we ever have, we are calmer than we have ever been.  I think it is the result of both of us working in tandem to heal ourselves first and our relationship second.  Still have work to do (Maybe we always will)  but after 7 years it feels like we are on the right path finally.  We are both different people and our old marriage that I wanted so badly to return is gone.  Hoping in its place will be a healthy, less codependent, honest partnership.   

Onward.... because forward is really the only option! 

[UrsaMajor]

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

We are both different people and our old marriage that I wanted so badly to return is gone.

Just as your h accepting he is an alcoholic, your acceptance of the new reality is just as important. You are both different and a sober H is going to be a much different person than the inebriated one. Drunks are very tricky. Some are happy drunks and love everybody and others are downright mean and nasty. Some can be both in one single session.

He has come to terms that he is an alcoholic and has been for quite some time.

Yes, and the only cure is to not drink. There is no cure. I drink on occasion with my friend and it is definitely two drinks over two hours with some food as well. Three drinks and I am heavily buzzed. That might be a family event at my house, one or twice a year. An alcoholic may think it is all about self-control, but it's not. One to two becomes three to four and before you know it, they are back to the same pattern as before. He is an addict and will always be an addict going forward.

Hoping in its place will be a healthy, less codependent, honest partnership.

Perfect reality. It wasn't rainbows and ice cream for breakfast then, and it won't be in the future. Instead, It is about a new reality of looking at the person that you married and committing yourself to building a marriage with this person. That's why I don't believe in "soul" mates. That's nonsense for young people, people who write for Hallmark,  and MLCers trying to justify bad choices.

Just like our own lives, the marriage ebbs and flows and goes through transitions as well. The bottom line is you are with your husband not because you need him, but because you chose him and accept him completely.

Hard point to reach, but well worth the effort,

((((Ready))))

[9393roo]

Drunks are very tricky. Some are happy drunks and love everybody and others are downright mean and nasty. Some can be both in one single session.

Yep^^^ I have seen both of these people. 

Perfect reality. It wasn't rainbows and ice cream for breakfast then, and it won't be in the future. Instead, It is about a new reality of looking at the person that you married and committing yourself to building a marriage with this person. That's why I don't believe in "soul" mates. That's nonsense for young people, people who write for Hallmark,  and MLCers trying to justify bad choices.

Yes indeed.  When MLC first hit I was under the impression that my H and I were soulmates.  I thought he would come out of MLC on his knees begging for our old marriage.  No begging, no pleading, no roses, sunshine and rainbows.  SLOWLY we have moved forward.   We are two separate people who happened to get caught up at a young age in codependency.  Unraveling that is very freeing for both of us. 

I'm looking forward to a new marriage, I think we both are. 

[KeepItTogether]

Great to read your updates Roo. My 7th anniversary of BD is coming up in May. And my H is also an alcoholic.  So much of what you write resonates with me.

Codependency seems to be a theme among us all. Such an insidious and pervasive trait, and yet it goes largely undetected.

The new marriage, the one where both are adults and emotionally healed/healing--now that sounds like a dream come true! Happy for you both.

[sachat3]

Forgive me. Im a bit behind on catching up.
Lovely to see your update Roo. I think, not that I’ve ever had an issue with addiction but my oldest friend her mum was/is an alcoholic. And I’ve spoken to her about it many times and she’s always said, the moment her mum turned to her and said “I need help” she knew she was serious because of all the years of denial. And they do say the first step is admitting you have a problem.

I really hope all is well with you and your H on the sobriety journey xx

[rosetintedglasses]

Roo

I have just read this. Well done you. Sounds like you are both going to become emotionally healthy, it sounds very calm.

Lovely to read your update. Thank you.
Rose 🌹

[9393roo]

Hello
It’s been almost a year since I updated my thread. I’m coming up on 8 years post atomic BD and maybe about 2 years into reconnecting.  I don’t feel like we are reconciled yet, but life is calm and good and we are making progress at a snail’s rate, but we are both committed to each other and making a new marriage work.  We quit MC 6 months ago thinking we could handle connecting on our own, but have realized we still need help and started up again.  We have an outstanding MC who was my H’s individual counselor.  We both continue to clean up our sides of the street, hoping to merge one day on a new path. 

Me, I think I have been experiencing an MLT (That’s a Capital T- No insane crisis here!)  At 58 I’m rebuilding myself, continuing to learn and grow and focusing on all the things I can control.  As a former fixer of all, this is a big step.  I am proud of myself for some of my bigger changes.   I’ve taken a position in our company that I’m proud of.  It’s something that doesn’t overlap with my H so I have room and autonomy.   I’ve expanded my volunteer travel (This from someone who would not go anywhere without my H and hated to fly) and just spent 3 weeks in Africa working in a remote community and school.  I am creating a social network by joining a women’s walking group and have started to work with new immigrants in our community as they settle in.  I do a lot of care with my sisters for my elderly parents who live 10 hours away and go on adventurous walks Gertie my MLC pug.  All 4 of our children have moved out of state, my 3 boys have all married and my 24 year old D  (16 at time of BD and only child living at home) is kicking some butt in a new job several states away.  I have a really great relationship with all of them, but am especially close to my D.  We are getting ready to meet in Arizona and do some hiking next month.  Our very close relationship is one of the best things to come out of the MLC mess.  Her relationship with her Dad is still coming along.  Out of all our children she was the one most affected by him.  They are connecting slowly as well.   

I still have triggers that I work through, I still am working on the trauma I’ve experienced while having a live at home clingy clingy boomerang who thought he would relive his high school years.  It seems like his story of what the whole MLC did to him has brought him so much shame, but sometimes he forgets or has compartmentalized what it did to me.  I swear shame has shut down all the bad parts sometimes.  We are in the slow process of “getting it all out there”  I am done fixing and caretaking, it’s a new way of doing marriage for both of us. 

My H is moving along slowly.  We are talking slowllllllllyyyyy.  All of the insane behaviors of replay are gone but have been replaced with depression, and guilt and shame.  He is working on them all.  Still working on his alcoholism and workaholism.  Not easy feats.  I see small steps backwards but nothing too big.  I am slowly seeing empathy and emotions return.  In October, our oldest son and his wife announced they were expecting a baby.  He instantly retreated into his shell.  This was one of the things he was vocal about when in replay, he didn’t want to be a grandparent.  Grandparents were old.  He didn’t seem to be excited about this news. I talked to him about it and he was stoic.  They ended up having a miscarriage before Christmas.  I was so upset when I told him, He was at work and just said “That’s very sad”. When he came home that night he came through the door and started to sob and hugged me.  He called our son and cried with him.  A big opening of a locked up emotional box.  I have seen more  and more of these openings on his time.  When they happen I am a little taken back sometimes.  Out of nowhere I will get a text that says “I cannot believe that after all that I’ve done, you are here with me.  Thank you”   

Reconnecting ,like MLC,  has not been linear or easy.  For us, it has taken a lot of work.  We are both committed to rebuilding and I see glimpses of what could turn out to be a really good marriage. 

My heart breaks for those of you in the midst of this he!!.  It will change you, it will test you and it will make you realize that you are stronger than you think you are.  Whatever happens to your marriage, you are going to be ok and you will get through this. 

Hugs to all.  Keep moving forward, it’s the only option for healing.

 

[UrsaMajor]

Good to hear from you Roo and glad to see that things are still moving forward.... maybe at the speed of a herd of turtles but forward.....

[KayDee]

Good to hear from you Roo and glad to see that things are still moving forward.... maybe at the speed of a herd of turtles but forward.....

Do turtles come in herds  what about a Platoon of Slugs?

[KayDee]

And thank you Roo for coming back to share. In your signature, the last line is 'I do not believe him' - have you managed to rebuild trust? Perhaps you have answered this already. For most of us, the affair is the most devastating thing. Many cannot get beyond it and it seems that many crisis spouses stick with it because it is the proverbial bed they made. I know your H didn't move out, but I wonder how you managed to move beyond this betrayal?

[9393roo]

Thanks Ursa and KayDee.

Good question KayDee, how much time do you have for me to answer it?   

I probably should have changed my tag time a few years ago.  For the first 5 years of this mess my H lied about everything.......EVERYTHING!  Now he tells me how exhausting that was.  I always knew it was a physical affair but had that little voice in my head that said "Maybe it was just and EA" I could could deal with that.  All of that changed when I went for a physical and found out that I had HPV.  My H had ended his affair the year before and thought he could carry this secret to his grave.  This was one of the few wake up calls that started him out of the tunnel.  He has told me since then that he was under the impression that if he pretended it didn't happen then maybe it didn't.  Found out the hard way that actions have consequences. 

I didn't want anything to do with him for a long time.  He was in individual therapy at the time and his therapist almost dropped him.  He told him that  if he lied to him he was wasting both of their time.  He came clean to me about this and other things.   He wrote me a letter telling me it all.  He never meant to bring this to me.  He was so self centered that he thought that it wouldn't affect me.  He was living a double life that caught up to him, it always will at some point.

We have come a long way with trust.  I focus on actions now more than anything.  He is accountable for his time.  I can ask him anything and he will talk to me calmly. He is a very open book. He is working hard on not shutting down when I trigger.  I feel like we are a team working this out now.  Still, not easy. 

I was always in the camp of " If it's physical it's over"  I guess until you are put into that situation you never know.  I have a whole lot of empathy for people put into these situations.  I withhold judgment for sure. 

Just a side note here, I would not recommend MC to anyone while their spouse is deep in crisis.  I am the poster child for this.  He lied and gaslight me all the times we went .  (4 total during 5 years)  Until your spouse comes out of replay its a waste of time and money and actually can end up doing more harm.   (There's my 2 cents 

I am still blown away at the fact that my H can't remember things.  He's buried them deep I guess.  We were just talking about a 30th anniversary trip we took while he was in replay and in the affair.   He told me at the time that "He wasn't sure how he felt about me" after I gave him a heartfelt card.  He swears he didn't remember this.  As we talked some more his eyes started to well up and he said "I was an awful person".  He still struggles with this, but he is starting to own it. 

Hope that answered your question!  Only believe what they do, what they say is 95% a lie.  At least it was in my case. 

 

[KayDee]

Gosh, 5 years of lying and putting your health at risk too. Sorry, I don't meant to stir that pot, but it's pretty extreme. People in this type of crisis are pretty extreme, I often wonder how much of it is a form of self-sabotage or self harm. My H does one $h!tety thing after another and still wheels out the poor-me vibe. I sometimes wonder if my ignoring him makes him crank up the volume more. But then, it's not about me, so probably not. Did you get to the point of being done? I'm only 18 months in and I feel pretty cooked (certainly browned off to nearly burnt). I feel now like I don't even like my H. Perhaps this is a rhetorical question, as we are all in different situations of course.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. They are so valuable and you are the embodiment of patience and forgiveness. I hope your H knows how lucky he is.

[9393roo]

I was "done" many many times.  My H also threw himself so many pity parties which I learned to walk away from.  We have a garage apartment and my H went there a few times, he also went to our guest room for months at a time.  I arranged my finances and protected what was mine.  (I still have an account open that he cannot touch)  I consulted a lawyer as well.  I worked very hard at detaching and started to live a life where he was on periphery.   I focused on our D and tried to stay off of his roller coaster as much as possible, he was a master at trying to pull me back on. It was after he ended his affair that I thought it was safe to be intimate with him again.  He was in therapy and doing some work to straighten himself out.  Am I glad I got HPV?  NO, but it did force him into really starting to face the truths of what he did and it did validate what I really knew all along. (I am HPV negative now)  I got away as much as I could, spent a lot of time with my sisters and parents and focused on getting my D through High School and off to college.  I have deeper stronger relationships because of this.

This has changed me for sure.  I am so much less codependent and needy.  I still am working on what is mine to fix and what is his.  I crave alone time.  I really like me now, this person I have become as a result of what I went through.  My family and friends notice and my H does as well. 

My H and I have been together a very long time.  We met at 20 and now are 58.  Our relationship is now totally changing.  We have no kids at home and are choosing to stay together and really work on this.  When he first came back towards me with honest intentions he did not realize how much I had changed and grown.  This has been difficult for him to accept sometimes.  We disagree more than we ever have, but its healthy disagreements.  We do love each other and our family and are choosing a path towards healing together.  Trying to focus on the future and what is going to work for both of us. 

Looking back is sometimes very very painful and if I get stuck there it can really be damaging.  My focus right now is Radical Acceptance and am working with a therapist on this. 

My H is still fighting the demons of alcohol and work.  I know he loves me and often tells me how lucky he is that I am still here.  It's all a work in process, but I am determined not to stop living while I wait for him to catch up. 

[KayDee]

Thank you so much Roo. Glad that you are healthy and that your H knows how blessed he is. Here's to the Work in Progress, may it continue to progress!

[UrsaMajor]

Good question KayDee, how much time do you have for me to answer it?   

<Snort!>  That could have been one of MY comebacks!

Hope that answered your question!  Only believe what they do, what they say is 95% a lie.  At least it was in my case.

I'll go one further and say believe NONE of what you hear and only 50% of what you see until the behaviour becomes consistent...

How do you know when a Mid-Lifer is lying? Their lips are moving...

[FaithWalker]

Roo, so nice to read an update.  It's a long road but you are traveling it well.