[Algo]

Hi everyone!

So I finally have the time to sit down and write some of my thoughts on this situation, this is the long version and will provide a recap at the end, so please feel free to skip this part.

When I asked my wife to marry me, 16 years back, after a two year relationship, I thought she was the right girl for me, we were both around 30 years old, got along pretty well and had a very nice relationship, we enjoyed being together, with our mutual friends and our own professions, she was the single daughter of a divorced couple, and both her parents seemed like nice enough people, she said yes in half a second, and went ahead to tell all our family and friends the next day, happy and merry. The wedding plans were awesome, we enjoyed every step of the way, laughing and getting closer by knowing even better each other preferences, and the negotiation of the few differences actually bond us together further, there was not a single misstep or doubt in either of our young minds that this was going to be perfect, and it was, I had a good paying job and she didn't have to worry about working, but still worked temporary jobs to have a distraction and earn herself some money, which of course I understood and encouraged,  a couple of years after our marriage, we had our first son, and it was amazing all the way as well,  and then my mother in law started spending more time with us, at first it would be the little things, like my wife being less expressive during sex, we of course didn't want the MIL to become disturbed by a young couple active life, so we had to tone it down, then my MIL started moving things around to suit her better, be it in the living room or the kitchen, and when i asked my wife to talk with her, she said it was not necessary, and didn't want to disturb her, then MIL started spending more time with us, and started becoming confronting about some issues with the kid upbringing, but then, our second son appeared and everything went back to the good old days save that my MIL would now spend most of her time with us, in 2018 my FIL died, and all of a sudden, my MIL came to live with us permanently things went downhill from there, pandemic didn't help with all of us under the same roof, and my wife would step back to avoid getting into discussions that lead nowhere, I started distancing to avoid discussions as well and at some point she started meeting with new friends, most of them divorced, started behaving strangely and by the end of last year, I found proofs of emotional attachment to one of them, I asked for a divorce, she exploded from what i now recognize a low level MLC into a destructive explosive MLC and wants to burn it all to the ground, while my MIL, her half sisters, her group of new friends all tell her that I'm the worst person in the history of the world and that she should to walk but run away from our marriage She now says things that I will not repeat and is distancing by the day, a few months back she requested more space and I accepted to leave the house, my kids now are telling me they prefer my new house than their old house, which will have to be sold as my salary is not enough to cover for both houses and she is distancing more and more by the day. I understand the process and the need for space, and so have kept a sane distance as well, she has been loosing hair and her sight for the last months and looks worst every time I meet her to pick up the kids, now, as she spends a lot of time with her friends, my kids are spending more and more time with my MIL and are somehow distancing as well, this i dont like and try to stay in touch with them as most as possible, do I really have to endure this for the next few years?

In short, my wife entered at the end of last year a destructive MLC, I now live out of my house and everyone of her friends and family is telling her she is better now, but she looks ten years older and doesn't seem happy at all, but still is pushing for more distance by the day, my kids are in the middle ground, they realize their mother is suffering and doesn't understand what is happening, but I can't tell them, I just let them know that I love them every time i can and make sure when they spend their time with me we enjoy it to the fullest.

[WHY]

Algo, sorry you’re here.  I’ll let some of the vets respond but this sounds a bit complicated vs the usual cookie cutter initial MLC phases we see all too often here.  Either way the hurt is the same and I’m sorry. 

Can you describe what else she’s been going through and experienced.  Hopefully this will help us help you.  Could this be more clinical depression vs MLC?   

[Algo]

Well, there are some other things to be considered, she’s been always very insecure, i guess due to her family history, so she made me swear that i would never speak nice of other women in front of her, or call her fat or talk bad about her in any way, which I of course promised had complied with, I mean, every head is a different world right? But her insecurities are so deep that she could never stop a man from advancing on her, I don’t think she’s a cheater, mind you, but she has always craved for attention, at one point I had to ask her to stop it and she promised that it would never happen again, but, after this past year with all the pandemic struggles, I catched her once again, well beyond previous issues and clearly in an emotional affair, she of course denies it is such, and tried to blame me for being insecure and jealous, unfortunately for her, I stored the evidence, and showed it to our first therapist when they confronted me for being jealous, after watching those conversations, they totally agreed with me and tried to help her confront it, but instead she just asked us to switch to another therapist… three times.  I have not shown this to the fourth therapist and have left her tell whatever lie she want to pass as reality, but of course the therapist thinks I am a pathological jealous guy and so her validation keeps growing, my MIL basically hates me after last year we both decided we would move to another city to stay away from her, and after we announced that to her, she went very discreetly against me in every chance she had, so my wife is being validated by everyone who listens to her, and since my MIL actually lived with us, she basically corroborates all my wife lies… It’s a complex situation to say the least, fortunately, so far my kids realize that who has the problem is her and have stand by my side, i hope my MIL wont screw them as well.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am so sorry that you are in this situation, but this is a great site to get support. The first thing you need to do is make sure you are financially secure. It is important to be in a position to take care of yourself and the children. MLCers are not particularly know for making sound financial decisions nor making the children a priority.

clearly in an emotional affair, she of course denies it is such, and tried to blame me for being insecure and jealous, unfortunately for her, I stored the evidence, and showed it to our first therapist when they confronted me for being jealous,

MLCers seek justification and gaslighting is a common tactic to sell their narrative, their truth to anyone. Part of her anger towards you is that she know you know the truth.

I have not shown this to the fourth therapist and have left her tell whatever lie she want to pass as reality, but of course the therapist thinks I am a pathological jealous guy and so her validation keeps growing

If therapy is only going to be a place for your wife too attack you, why bother. A therapist can only go on by what they hear and if you only allow her voice to be heard, of course the therapist is going to validate her.

I now live out of my house

Why? If you are such a jealous and controlling spouse, why did you leave? Maybe she should leave? After all, she has her mother to spend the time venting about you.

My advice is that you start to put yourself as a priority and let her go. You are not going to fix her or change her at all. Focus on your time with the kids and be good to yourself. Avoid relationship talks and live as if she is not going to come back. After all, do you want to be with someone that lies about you and has an ally that will back everyone of her lies? This is not a person that you need in your life right now.

After you get yourself back into the right frame of mind, then you can think about some boundaries you need to set for your MLCer.

Enjoy your weekend,

((((Ready))))

[Treasur]

I’m a little confused about your situation, Algo

You told your w you wanted a divorce after finding evidence of an EA which she (textbook) denied.
Do you?
If so, what is the purpose of doing joint therapy? And was it more her idea or yours?
If not, why did you move out and have you taken any legal steps yet?

It sounds as if you have had issues about the role your MiL has in your family’s life for quite a while now? Several years off and on? And that your w did not want to challenge her? And that you have a pattern of distancing yourself under stress? And that you agreed to, or didn’t not agree to, going through a number of therapists because that is what your wife wanted? Which sounds as if you don’t much like saying No to your w?

Are any of these things underlying patterns in your relationship or how the two of you communicate? Or are they new things? Are boundaries difficult for you or only in the context of family? How old are your kids? How are you currently managing the practicalities of kids, money, work and shared obligations if you have moved out? Do you have much of a support system for yourself eg your own family, friends etc? How long have the two of you been doing joint therapy and how is it working for you so far? And what are you seeing in your w’s behaviour that makes you think your wife is having an MLC?

Please understand there is no implied criticism in my questions at all, no ‘right’ answer. I just can’t quite get a sense of where you are at and what you want or need. Which makes it more difficult for us to support you appropriately. I am very sorry that you needed to find us, but I hope that we can support you as you figure things out.

And, importantly, how are you doing? Especially with all the basics like food, sleep, physical and emotional health, fresh air....

[Algo]

Hi,

I can totally understand my situation is confusing, of course there’s a lot of troubled history there, so, let me answer the main points down here:

yes, after I found evidence of an affair, I asked her for a divorce, at that point in time, I thought it was a physical affair as well, only a couple of weeks after this request, I got proof that it was not physical, that changed my perspective, and accepted to start couples’ therapy, during those two to three weeks it took me to change, she was validated by her mother, family and new friends, and when we started therapy, she insisted it was only to make separation easier for both of us and later switched her objective to outright divorce,  at the same time I started understanding what was happening (it took me like to months to find out about MLC) and started wanting her back, so our situation reversed… five months down the road,  after 3 therapists, I asked her to take individual therapy, this is the last therapist i mention, currently we are taking separate therapy,  I talked once with this therapist to tell her about my feelings and to ask her to help my wife, she told me if I really wanted to help her, the best way would be to give her the space she was demanding, and so I took the decision to move out, in exchange to that, my wife accepted to stop any legal steps for divorce and start individual therapy.

Yes, unfortunately now i realize I -we- let my MIL to take over my household and never demanded her to respect our space, I just wanted -and i think my wife also wanted- to avoid fighting her, this distancing under stress is an issue i also realized when i started therapy myself… The first change of therapist I actually requested myself, see, i got really angry at her when I showed her a picture of the alienator and she said: Well, he’s kind of a handsome guy… hehe idiot therapist. 

Truth is I left my wife take most decisions, as I wanted to avoid fights and I couldn’t negotiate with my MIL, I was stressed enough with my daily job, it was a really bad call from my side, now that i see it in hindsight. There were communication problems for sure, our love languages were not compatible and we misinterpreted each others actions until it snowballed into a constant power fight, and then we just started growing apart. Professionally I am quite successful, I should say, even if my current salary doesn’t reflect it, but then again, I’m already looking for a better job and have no doubt i will land it soon enough, financially we’re loosing money as her profession doesn’t allow her to have a constant or decent enough job and the expenses are too high, so I’m selling our house to get back in black, kids are staying with her, and during vacation time it was one week with each one, I’m still trying to help her out with anything she manages to ask for, but still try to give her as much space as possible, she’s suffering because her understanding of technology is pretty bad and now her phone has become almost a brick, but still she is not asking for help and so I don’t help her to fix it… My family and friends have all been really helpful, even if they don’t really understand what’s going on, they know we’ve separated, but my wife still contacts them every now and then, and brings the kids to meet them, etc.

Why I want to stand? She’s been for all this time pre-MLC the most unselfish person, the most caring, warm, gentle, educated, cult person, and together we make a great team -even now she recognizes it- and still, even If she doesn’t trust me at all -she’s still angry I went over her personal messages-, she manages to keep calm and be friendly with me most of the time.

I believe she’s in a MLC because most of the signs point to it, after her father died some years back, she fell into a low level MLC, but once she started questioning her life decisions, my MIL started poisoning her, and my divorce request really pushed her over the limit as she always made very clear she didn’t want our marriage to fail as her parents’ did…

[Algo]

Just to clarify… when i say “ she manages to keep calm and be friendly with me most of the time. ” She is utterly passive-aggressive, and keeps complaining about things I said years -decades- ago, also, she’s at her worst aggressiveness after spending time with my MIL, which is almost every day… but when she doesn’t see her, then becomes very low energy, almost depressive. It’s important to mention my MIL is a very negative person, always complaining about everything and everyone.

[OldPilot]

Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[Algo]

Hi everyone! It’s been some complex months, we sold the house and we’re living in separate homes (I'm paying for both since her trade is not very prosper at this time), the kids stay with me every time they can, and slowly but surely they are recognizing they feel much better when they are with me, in the other camp, things have been hectic, MIL has taken over my role and the kids are struggling to understand who is their mother, and complaining that she leaves them with my MIL every time she wants to join her friends, which is unfortunately too frequent. W is showing all the telltale signs of a complex MLC, including the lost child appearance, the lies to cover whatever she thinks she needs to cover, the complains to the common friends that I'm trying to make her life harder and in general feeding off my MIL with negative energy to validate her wrong decisions. It’s complex but I’m trying my best to support the kids and tell them that us adults need to figure things out, and focusing in the things I can control to try to improve myself, let’s see how this turns out, next Sunday is our anniversary and she planned a working travel with her friends, she kept insisting that she was traveling -I guess trying to get me to complain or look miserable that we won’t go out as we always did- but I just buckled up and let it slip without a comment, she looked disappointed at my indifference but didn’t mention the anniversary either.

As they say, one day at a time, best wishes, Algo

[FaithWalker]

Hang in there Algo.  Kids definitely do recognize who the reliable parent is.  Does sound like she is off the rails.