[Reinventing]

I am dismayed by so much advice given that the only way for healing to occur is to stop any contact with them, to look at everything they do as being "monster" towards us and the lack of empathy and understanding for what they are going through.

I think saying "the only way" is an overstatement and one I have seen before and one that I object to. In my own journey, a person of one, a period of limited and then no contact literally saved my life and sanity. I respect myself for navigating what I needed at that period of time so that I could survive. There were many other things I did to survive that I don't need to do now, thankfully.

For me, a person of one, it helped me detach from his instability, high narcissism, and his deliberate attempts to elicit a reaction from me when I was barely living from moment to moment, barely living from hour to hour, barely living from day to day. To underscore this, I lost about a quarter of my hair during that time.

For my own healing, I needed to separate from the chaos, instability, and selfishness to save my sanity and heal. I, an example of one, needed room to think and understand the tsunami that just hit. I needed time to look back at the actions that I couldn't understand before, but were troubling, leading up to BD. I needed to protect myself financially, even if I understood he was going through a crisis and needed as much  money as possible to build his new life. I didn't sacrifice my financial future because of what he was going through and most LBS advise the same.

I also didn't sacrifice myself  emotionally and mentally. For that period of time I needed to focus on my healing. I respect myself for recognizing and implementing that. Do not be "dismayed" for me and what I needed to stay alive and become a whole person again. Do not be "dismayed" that I think others may (the operative word there is may) need that space to heal. I don't view myself as some particularly weak, bad, or insensitive person.

What the LBS needs and their healing is most important. We didn't cause the MLC, our marriages didn't cause the MLC, we can't fix the MLC. But we can control ourselves, get our feet under ourselves and build a life, with or without the MLCer. For me, a person of one, I needed limited  contact for business purposes only for a period of time. I needed to focus on my physiological response of high anxiety and learn how to reduce that (for me, exercise and limited contact). I respect that taking actions that help us heal can, for some (the operative word is some), include reducing or stopping contact for a period of time. That was definitely the case with me and I stand by that and look back at myself with pride on how I chose to heal.

None of what I said above means that I was vindictive or mean to the MLCer, and I don't advocate for that. I did need to be clear eyed that the MLCer was no longer playing in the same sandbox as me. I did need to be clear eyed that the MLCer was not treating me with respect. I did need to be clear eyed that the MLCer would have been happy for me to hand over all the financials to them for them to spend. I did need to be clear eyed that another person was part of my marriage and he was now in the sandbox with that person. I made the decision early on that for me, I was not going to be an OW to the OW.

I think that there are stages the LBS goes through in their own healing. The LBS is not a martyr. The LBS is not able to fix the MLCer. The LBS does need to respect that the MLCer is an autonomous adult who may be making poor choices in the eyes of the LBS and even others, but is allowed to do that. As much as it hurt me to realize this, the MLCer is allowed to love someone else and build a life with them.

[Treasur]

I agree with every word of this, Reinventing, so make that a sample of two.

I too objected to the underpinning tone of what you wrote, Xyzcf, whilst respecting your right to hold that PoV about your own experience. I just wish it hadn’t sounded quite so disapproving of those of us whose experience and PoV were different.

I found that a bit hurtful tbh as a long time poster here. As if you deemed I had failed somehow bc I don’t have family Christmases with my ex spouse years on - particularly difficult to read at this time of year for someone who has no family at all. Or that I was damaging LBS here by prioritising their healing over any compassion I may feel for the MLC folks who are the source of their distress. It read as being rather strangely unkind bc I do not see you as an unkind poster butyou evidently have strong feelings about the issue of contact.

However, behind the debate or RCR’s principles or anyone else’s tbh, there are some real people here like me (and perhaps Reinventing and others) who had to make painful choices to survive behaviour we found deeply distressing, frightening and inconceivable. Choices sometimes that were at odds with our own principles and beliefs. But we did and we did. And that’s not nothing. It deserves compassion and empathy too imho.

[xyzcf]

Re reading my post this morning, further on down the the post I wrote this:

That of course is not possible for everyone. We don't really have control about what our spouses are doing, some have been violent and abusive but there are many others who I see as being "lost

In my view, Ever had been given several words of "advise" concerning the wish of her daughter that she be present at her party with her father and suggestions about how to avoid that. She did not follow that advice, and the result seems to have gone quite well...her "fear" of ever being in the same space as exH was relieved by the actual experience. I suspect she will not be haunted anymore when she encounters him at future events.

Another poster was advised not to drive her husband to the airport. She's very early on in this journey. She saw and heard some things during that drive that she would not have heard had she set "boundaries" that because he is leaving her, she should not drive him anywhere. He was leaving for a foreign country and she will not have the chance to ask him things that she needs to know. Even if he doesn't give her the answers she needs..she will have felt that she had a chance to express them.

I do care very deeply about all the posters on HS. To never see the person that you spent so many years with, for the children who do not get to see their other parent, for all the damage to the LBSer that we have to heal from.....I care deeply.

There was another thread yesterday where I felt put down because I disagree (my own point of view) that the person in crisis can be compared to other pathology's ( I used a couple of examples such as PTSD from war and menopause). We don't really know what causes this break in their psyche...and thus, I don't necessarily hold them "accountable" for their actions..again, my own point of view.

I am dismayed by so much advice given that the only way for healing to occur is to stop any contact with them,

Sometimes we interpret words differently....if I take out the word "only" that might seem clearer, for I do see much advice given to eliminate contact.

It is necessary and helpful for healing of the LBSer at times and some times contact can be very harmful.

I read this on Biscuit's thread today:

I stayed and chatted to 2 of our friends late into the night. It was a difficult conversation as they were saying they thought that me and W were getting too close and that we should sell our house and live completely separate lives (we own 2 houses and live apart anyway). I told them that where me and W is at the moment is working for us as a family, that they are entitled to their opinions and that there's not a one size fits all for families living apart. Just because all our separated friends have decided to spend almost no time together that doesn't mean me and W should do the same.
I got the "you should move on" talk. It was well meaning and kind but I told them that I have moved on, I've grown and healed loads and I've forgiven W for what she did and I feel ready to start spending more time with her and the kids and that it doesn't destabilize me. And moving on for me doesn't mean finding a new relationship, it means finding myself again and learning to love who I am and appreciate all I've got.

There are many people who express this point of view to us.  Heros spouse was a place where I could express myself and not be told to do what everyone else was telling me to do. My perception is that has changed on Heros Spouse. I give a different point of view perhaps...for  some members to use as they wish or not.

If we were in the same room discussing our views, it would be easier to clarify or continue a discussion expressing our individual views. Writing does not allow that same ability.

This is a difficult time of year for all of us. It will be nice to get back to "ordinary time" when the expectations of "families" all gathering and celebrating together will be in the past.

Sorry Ever for hijacking your thread.

[Nas]

I’ll be very brief so as not to hijack this thread. XYZ, if you felt put down by my post on acorn’s thread yesterday, I apologize. My question and sharing of my thoughts was posed in direct conversation with what you posted. That’s all it was intended to be was a continuation of a conversation.
I think a lot of us have heightened emotions this week. I know I am working through some deep sadness over many things. I feel that talking to others and expressing thoughts and feelings is helpful so I’m glad these conversations are happening.

[Reinventing]

I am dismayed by so much advice given that the only way for healing to occur is to stop any contact with them,

I think that it is A way for healing to occur for some people and for a period of time. Not THE way, not THE ONLY way.

In my opinion, the advice to Ever was regarding being around OW, not that she was around her XH at her daughter's party.

I do think that some LBS, especially early on, can lessen the injury to themselves that some MLCers are sending their way when the MLCer is rationalizing their decisions and seems to be the most sure that the LBS is the problem and that the MLCer's fantasy life is the solution.

Removing one's self from additional injury can help some LBS in their path to healing. I am careful to present that as an option to the LBS to consider, not as the way or the only way, but as a way to consider.

I think the strategies the LBS can employ to heal changes over time as they get their sea legs, so to speak.

I also think that the LBS can't fix the MLCer. Lord knows if we could we would share that loud and clear. That includes contact with the MLCer--not saying it's a bad thing, just saying that contact is not the only way for the LBS to feel and show empathy for what the MLCer is going through.

That's why I focus on the LBS and what they need to consider helpful to heal. The LBS can only control the LBS, much as we all would have liked that to be different.

[WHY]

All these explanations and justifications.  Can we take a moment to realize just how insane MLC is?  Overnight, lives are destroyed and life trajectories forever changed.  Children damaged.  Without warning. It just happens.  And there is nothing anyone can do about it. 

How is this not recognized as mental illness and more people around the world trying to understand it?  None of this is ok. 

Sorry rant over.  I’m just still in disbelief sometimes even two years in.  It’s absolutely nuts.

[Evermore]

I wanted to start my reply here with this quote from amazinglove from her thread. It sums up how I feel as well.

The gratitude I have for these wise voices In my life is really something I can’t express properly and thank you doesn’t seem big enough.

I’m very sad to read that some people here have been distressed and feel sad after reading others’ thoughts. For what it’s worth, from my reading I don’t think anyone commenting here was ‘having a go’ at anyone else. And I think there is, in essence, very little disagreement amongst everyone posting that each situation is different and therefore requires a different strategy to heal (and that those strategies can change along the journey). I think the problem is that people are feeling a little judged for their opinion and the strategies those chose. What I find interesting as a bystander to the conversation (and I’m sure I won’t convey this well, so bear with me while I try to find the right words to express my thoughts) is that I don’t believe there was actually any judgement given by anyone.

I know XY sometimes feels judged for the strategy she has chosen. I will admit that I agree with her that there ARE some posters here (on HS in general, not here here) whose ‘go to’ response to newbies is usually ‘you MUST go NC immediately and cut them out of your life!’ with little accounting for the actual situation. I can see how that would concern you XY, because it rankles me a little as well when people are told what they MUST do. I really don’t think that is the majority view here though so I don’t let it bother me.

I don’t think XY was implying that you Treasur, Reinventing or Nas are personally people who do that. I certainly don’t think that and I’m sorry if any of you felt judged and were hurt. I really don’t think that was in any way the intention.

Thank you to all those that share their thoughts here. Everyone’s contribution is welcomed.

[Evermore]

It would have been my 25th wedding anniversary today. I guess it still IS the 25th anniversary?

Either way I knew it was coming up but it didn't even cross my mind today until I scrolled through FB memories and thought, huh, why is there a wedding pi... oh yeah! So I guess that is a good thing and shows how far I've come. I do feel a bit weird now though. But it's that nostalgic kinda sad feeling rather than the incapacitating devastation I have felt for the past 5 anniversaries.

I'm sure that's partly because I'm in a happy new relationship and really moving forward into my new future. M is still fabulous and we're very settled and 'sorted' as a couple. He knows all the history and how I feel and is unfazed.

xh still likes and comments on many of my FB posts and we have occasional 'family logistics' texts (we still have a family health insurance policy and joint bank account). He and OW are looking to buy a house/some land to build a house again and xh recently asked me to remove his name from a joint credit card. I didn't even realise his name was still on that card (it's one I never use).

From the outside I guess many people might think it's all 'worked out for the best'. Intellectually I think that's likely true. Emotionally it's not what I asked for and it still makes me go WTF. I still wish it hadn't happened. I still occasionally dream that we're still together (I did last night ironically... although maybe not, the subconscious is a weird thing and maybe remembered the anniversary even though my conscious mind didn't?).

My FB memory (from March 20 2017) reads: "Happiest Anniversary to my darling hubby XXXXX. Love yooouuu. 18 years married today and together 21 years next week, couldn't be happier. We're livin' the dream honey! Mwah xxxx"

His reply was: "Same back at ya honey, heck of a ride we've had. Now I have ya name tattood on me I can hardly bail out ( unless I find a 'Ever' with a i ). Luv ya madly chook Xxoo"

A year later was first BD and then 6 months after that, gone.

SIL2 says BIL says he's not very happy. I think he thinks that's because they're still renting. we all know that's not true but what are ya gonna do. I truly do just 'wish him well' these days. I know I'm on a healthy new path with a really GOOD man (he really is, makes me smile).

[Reinventing]

But it's that nostalgic kinda sad feeling rather than the incapacitating devastation I have felt for the past 5 anniversaries.

It's nice to get to this point.

I know I'm on a healthy new path with a really GOOD man (he really is, makes me smile).

And one common denominator of both relationships is you. So happy you found someone who makes you smile.

[UrsaMajor]

Hi Ever!

Nice to hear from you again. Sounds like your life is progressing nicely while his ... well ..... like someone told me yesterday, "Do stupid things, win stupid prizes!"