[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I have been limited in my travels and go shopping about once a week. Just as everything was about to break, my parents flew to Texas to visit my brother. Now they are stuck there and my father has hatched a plan where I will drive 800 miles to meet them at El Paso as my brother will drop them off. We will spend the night and then head back to California. 

I am not a huge fan of this idea and feel that they would be safer just staying with my brother and riding out the storm. However, my father is bound and determined to go back to his home. He wants to do this the weekend of April 17. Now, he has a Urostomy pouch and we will have to make several stops on the way back so he can dump his bag. He is 82 years old and my mom is 79. Of course mid-April is being predicted as the time as everything really begins to hit hard until mid May when it should start to go down. I am trying to figure out ways to convince them to wait.

Just wondering, am I off in my thinking? Please feel free to chime in!

Thanks,

Ready

[Thunder]

Oh no Ready, from what you said I think it sounds like they, and you, would be better off staying where they are.
Sometimes older people just get things in their head, like they have to be home, without thinking clearly what they are asking.  That's a long drive for him to make.

How does your brother feel about this?  Sounds like you and he may have to make the decision.

I hope it's a decision that is best for everyone involved. 

Hugs

[xyzcf]

Marvin,

Thank you for your reasonable and totally understandable post. If you don't mind, I will share it with a few people.

Thunder, I actually am encountering people personally who believe that the stay at home orders are an infringement of their rights and talk about lawsuits against the government. Having lived most of my life in Canada, and having worked during SARS I see a huge difference in the attitude of people here, and it scares me.

Ready, what a dilemma! If your parents have been totally self isolating while at your brothers then it is probably safe for you to be in a car with them. But how many people have not been to the grocery store or whatever?

I can understand why they would want to be in their own home. I know I feel much safer in my own home and I suppose staying with a relative for a long time is not always the best.

Could they fly back? Wear a mask on the plane and clean around their seats. I think there are still flights domestically.

Having to stay in a hotel and stop along the way at roadside bathrooms would carry a risk as well.

Have you talked to him about flying home?

[marvin4242]

xyzcf: please share if you think its useful. If you don't mind tack on the "herd immunity" addendum as I think its valuable information.

Ready: I'll chime in. You are very correct, your parents are much better off staying put, having someone with them and not going into California right now. Is there ANY urgent and real reasons they should do this? If not it is not wise.

Thunder: I am not being anti-US, but the truth is there is a lot more of that going on than you may believe. First look at governors of ENTIRE states who said it was a hoax, go out to Bob Evans and eat with your families, and Florida is the poster child of this kind of thing. Florida MAY already have 100s of thousands of infected people and they JUST instituted movement restrictions. Its way too late, the geometric wave will crush their capacity. And Florida has a lot of older vulnerable population. And even where my home is in the US (very wealthy, very blue) you hear of group of people on golf courses proudly refusing to socially distance because its all a "liberal plot." This is not a political point I am making, I am saying there is a very significant portion of people in the US that are no longer able to see anything outside of a political lens, even if its about health of others. Yes I see some "nutters" here in London, but trust me, they are the very rare exception, political beliefs is NOT shaping if people are following guidelines or taking this seriously. Polls show majority of one party does not believe this is serious and they think it is being played up for political reasons.

US not only acted too late, its still not acting as per best knowledge and practice. And there is minimal coordinated Federal effort. Are you aware that states are forced to compete with each other and bid up the cost of ventilators because the Federal government refuses to be the central help? By contrast all of EU has joined together and is bulk purchase and providing PPE and ventilators as a group. And people are raising their eyebrows that UK has not joined them yet because of "Brexit." Some states are taking the initiative, some are not. And not all states have the resources of California and Washington state to deal with this. It would be like asking individual village doctors to handle the situation with central help.

The situations are not equivalent. Other from Canada will chime in about what its like up there.

[Treasur]

Completely get the 'herd immunity' vs 'let the weak die while the rest of us do our thing' mix, Marvin. As youbsay, gravity is gravity.....but the experience is rather different with a parachute. And inna sense, our societies are trying to buy time for more parachutes.

The political lens is an interesting one. Many of us outside the US find Mr Trump's base a strange kind of phenomenon. And to be fair, the US is not the only country that seems to have some rather different patterns of public and political opinion that don't quite fit our old experiences of different political schools of thought. Or indeed where politics begins and ends for the average person. Seems likely to me that experiencing a pandemic may create some interesting post-pandemic opinions too.

For anyone interested and looking for a virus 'break', this talk by an author a couple of years ago looking at the underpinning issues around it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPYlE72OzZA is a pretty balanced and interesting take.....essentially, and he is very open about his political starting block, the author believes that a void was created in the last financial crisis and in the last couple of decades of Democratic politics which was looking for a home. Here in the UK tbh, I think there has been a growing feeling amongst many people from different political POV that they feel disenfranchised and both unheard and devalued. Would be surprised if this were only so in these two countries......

[Nerissa]

Given that Dr A Fauci has been given enhanced security detail due to threats against him from those who consider he is peddling fake news, rather than appreciating him for the exceptionally fine scientist he is, I think it’s reasonable to assume there is a significant section of US society who are ‘doing their own thing’ without heed for the safety of others. 

A US citizen I know, right wing but not rich is praising Trump and the republicans on FB.  Considering he is 86, and Trump’s preferred way is to let nature take its course, it seems like a turkey voting for Xmas to me.

[Thunder]

Marvin I agree with you, as I have so often, and stated there may be a political group that feels this way, but not the majority of Americans.  I still stand by that.
Not naming the political group because I don't want to offend anyone, but yes they do very often care more about themselves, or their politics, than concern for the country as a whole.

Yep our government did react too slowly from the top down.  Calling it a hoax did a lot of harm.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Could they fly back? Wear a mask on the plane and clean around their seats. I think there are still flights domestically.

That was the original plan. However, their flight continues to be cancelled.

How does your brother feel about this?  Sounds like you and he may have to make the decision.

He is not for it either. In fact, my father and him got into an argument about this!

I am going to go with my gut reaction and that is to say no to this crazy plan and let them stay where they are. They are in a home, have people to help them, and access to quality care. An extra month or two is not going to hurt them at all.

Thanks for the advice!

((((Ready))))

[Thunder]

Well good for you and your brother.  I think you guys are making the right choice.
You father will get over it.  You are keeping him safe...and yourself.
Maybe your brother could use you as an excuse.  Possibly tell his dad we are not supposed to be traveling and he wants you safe and staying home until this is over.   

Personally I would not go on a plane right now, so to put older people on one is scary to me.

[marvin4242]

Marvin I agree with you, as I have so often, and stated there may be a political group that feels this way, but not the majority of Americans.  I still stand by that.
Not naming the political group because I don't want to offend anyone, but yes they do very often care more about themselves, or their politics, than concern for the country as a whole.

Thunder I like to look at data as a good way to understand issues. This is one of the more recent polls by reputable outfits. This quote is why I say political lens has now overtaken science, facts and information:

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/304646/five-emerging-conclusions-public-opinion-covid.aspx

"Our most recent Gallup data on worry about virus exposure show a 27-point gap -- 48% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents are very or somewhat worried, compared with 75% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents. This is essentially the same size gap we saw in Gallup data earlier in March."

Political and personal beliefs are coloring peoples understanding of reality in the US to a level I have not seen in my lifetime. I am not talking about which side of the divide, rather this simple thing. We are entitled to our opinion, but not our facts. I think whether its a majority or not it is entirely way too large a percent of the population and its harms us all. And we are seeing it in the behaviour of some who refuse to take advice on what we all need to do collectively.

I am going to go with my gut reaction and that is to say no to this crazy plan and let them stay where they are. They are in a home, have people to help them, and access to quality care. An extra month or two is not going to hurt them at all.

Excellent choice. Best of luck.