[OffRoad]

Nerissa posted a link on the Stats thread that led me to this page. I am not a CDC fan. (for various reasons that are my own). I can only hope, though, that the  implication that the CDC would only use their defective tests and would not use WHO tests because the CDC didn't create them is incorrect and that there is a different reason the CDC would only use their own defective tests.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/16/cdc-who-coronavirus-tests/

Why weren't the CDC and WHO working together? It like a competition instead of a collaborative effort. I still wonder that, and figure maybe I haven't found the right article yet.

[Nerissa]

Oops. Here it is.

https://www.ft.com/content/00312c48-6e87-11ea-9bca-bf503995cd6f

[Airmid]

Sobering Corvid-19 facts from NY

I live in the epicenter of the Corvid-19 virus (NYC).
I have talked to a few friends around the country - and apparently in some areas the dire news about how serious the virus is has not been covered by their local news.

So just to give an update of the situation posted in the NY Times this morning...

In the 24 hours through 12 a.m. on Friday, 562 people — or one almost every two-and-a-half minutes — died from the virus in New York State, bringing the total death toll to nearly 3,000, double what it was only three days before. In the same period, 1,427 newly sickened patients poured into the hospitals — another one-day high

some hospitals have reported running out of body bags  and others have begun to plan for the unthinkable prospect of rationing care

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-death-toll.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Every county in our state has reported cases - and much of our state is very rural - where there are more cows per square mile than people.

I saw on TV last night where certain areas of the country apparently feel immune.
Reporters showed a church in Ohio where a large congregation gathered with no social distancing employed.

Even in NYC where we have gone from the frying pan to the fire - some members of the Orthodox Jewish community still continue to gather in large unprotected groups to attend funerals and weddings.  (more than 200 people).

I am sure there are countless examples of this type of behavior - but these are just 2 examples that hit the news.

I look at these instances and wonder what part of this crisis do you not understand?

NY State started with 1 Coronavirus case on March 1st. 
Between March 16 and 30, the number of cases in New York City jumped from 464 to 36,220
As of yesterday NYS has 102,863 positive cases of Corona Virus.
On April 2, 2010 we had 10,482 new cases overnight.

I saw on the news some states would like to stop people from NYC from traveling outside the state.
While I can understand this philosophy - and certainly encourage NYers to shelter in-place, I do not see this as the solution to halting the virus spread.

Every state has an airport.  Airlines are still flying in the US from state to state.
There are still international flights from the US to hot spots in Europe, Asia, Africa.
Truckers are still transporting essential goods from State to State.

Your area may not be effected yet.  But I stress the word "yet".
Rural areas, once effected, may suffer higher deaths per capita due to the fact that many rural hospitals do not have the resources to handle an epidemic.
Please don't think of yourself as immune.
Even if your state has not issued a stay-at home order, consider doing it for yourself.
It may save your life, and the lives of those close to you.

[Seahorse]

Airimid - Thanks for reiterating how important it is to shelter-in-place.
It really is an issue, and people need to take it seriously.

Stay safe and stay home!

Sea

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Good to hear from you Air! You really are in the center of the storm there in Manhattan. I'm sure you're taking the appropriate steps to stay safe and healthy but they're still learning new things about this virus and how it spreads so please be careful.

One thing I'd like to add is that the news reports always say NY but the reality is that at least 95% of the known cases in NY state are in the NYC/Long Island/Downstate area. That isn't surprising since about 65% of the state's total population lives in that area.

In the rural part of NY state where I live we have less than 20 known cases in my county, the county to the west has less than 10 and the county to the east of us is considered a hot spot with more than 50 known cases. So far none of our cows have been affected. 

If you compare number of known cases to total population, we have about 3 cases per 10,000 people while Manhattan has almost 52 cases per 10,000 people.

The fact that we have so few cases does not mean that it isn't being taking seriously here. Knowing what we do about the virus, we assume that everyone we see may be contagious with it. Almost everything is shut down and for most people the only time they go out is to go to the grocery store.

BTW, I'm hoping that I have some encouraging news for NYC. I watch the numbers closely and I've noticed for the past 2 days the number of hospital discharges have been slightly more than the number of hospital admissions.

Another note regarding the news reports. A lot of mention has been made about how Governor Cuomo is fighting to get ventilators and how there is a critical shortage of them. IMO, that's only partially true. Ventilators are life saving for patients with bacterial pneumonia. The ventilator keeps the patient alive while the antibiotics they're being given overcome the bacterial infection.

Ventilators don't have the same impact with Covid because Covid causes a viral pneumonia for which there is no cure. It's true that the patients who don't get put on a ventilator will probably die but what isn't widely publicized is that they're probably still going to die even after being put on a ventilator because there is no cure for the viral pneumonia that's destroying their lungs which then continues on to cause Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome followed by multiple organ shutdown. The numbers I'm seeing indicate that rougly 50 to 80% of those placed on vents die after about 1 to 3 weeks on the vent.

What we really need is more Personal Protective Equipment to protect our healthcare workers. Every patient in the hospital should be wearing a surgical mask to protect the healthcare workers from being infected by those patients. Every healthcare worker should have gloves, a gown, goggles and/or a face mask for working with Covid patients, and an N95 respirator. Our front line health care workers in hot spots like NYC are dealing with critical shortages of PPE, some healthcare workers are getting infected because of it, and some of them are dying and there is NO excuse for it.

Anyway, to reiterate Air's point, this is serious. Social distancing is a little painful but it works. Most people who get infected with Covid have an unpleasant 1 to 2 weeks but a lot of people are dying from it and social distancing can slow down and limit the spread of the disease.

One last comment. Masks. I'm not a big fan of people wearing masks to try to protect themselves from the virus because it doesn't work and because there has been a shortage of masks. Some virus droplets are small enough to go through an ordinary mask, most ordinary masks don't provide a good seal so the virus droplets can get in around the edges of the mask, and masks can become contaminated and spread the virus when improperly handled. I also don't like masks because I'm afraid people believe they're invincible once they put that mask on, resulting in more risky behavior like less social distancing.

But, they're starting to recommend that everyone wear a mask and I am a big fan of that idea. They're finding that a lot of people are infected and contagious and never show any symptoms. They're also finding that most people who are infected and become symptomatic have a day or two at the beginning where they are asymptomatic but contagious.

Me wearing a mask provides very limited protection against me catching the virus. Me wearing a mask if I'm asymptomatic but contagious can provide everyone around me with a lot of protection against me coughing, sneezing, or even just exhaling in their direction. If the authorities in your area start recommending wearing a mask, please wear one so that you won't be infecting everyone around you if you happen to be infected and don't know it.

[marvin4242]

Thanks MBIB that explanation about why everyone wearing mask is being recommended by some is very illuminating, I hadn’t thought of it from the viewpoint of the assumption that itt is to prevent the wearer from spreading, rather than catching the disease.

[Thunder]

MB, I've been trying to find anything on wearing gloves to protect yourself, because a read an article last week about it not helping, but I'll be darned if I can find it now.

People are starting to wear gloves here, not the surgical gloves but cloth gloves.
Hopefully they know they have to wash them frequently, but are they even worth wearing?
It just seems washing your hands after you've been in a store makes more sense.

Do you or anyone have any information on this?
Thank you if you do. 

[xyzcf]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention doesn’t recommend the general public use personal protective equipment, including gloves. Health departments across the Treasure Coast echo the recommendation.
Gloves just aren’t enough of a protection, according to the CDC. Wearing gloves is not a substitute for washing your hands.

Moreover, contamination during glove removal is common, the CDC says. Cleaning your hands after removing your gloves will help prevent the spread of COVID-19, the agency says.

https://www.mlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/youre-probably-using-disposable-gloves-all-wrong-michigan-nurse-gives-tips.html

Washing your hands with soap and water actually destroys the membrane around the virus and destroys it. Wearing gloves, if not used properly could actually spread the virus if they are not removed and deposited properly.

We also need these supplies for front line workers.

[Thunder]

Thank you xyzcf, but they aren't wearing the surgical gloves.  Their like cotton gloves you wash.

I agree with you, you'd be more apt to spread the virus more with contaminated gloves.
I just wanted to give my sister some article on why they are not a good idea so she can read why, not just believe me.   
She thinks they are telling us to wear them. 

(I will read the article you posted)

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I see while I was writing this xyz posted a great response. I'm going to go ahead and post this anyway.

Thunder, we wear gloves on the ambulance. They're an important component of PPE. But they're disposable. We throw them away after every patient, we're careful not to touch our faces while we're wearing them, and we've been taught how to properly remove them so that we don't become contaminated by anything that's on the gloves. Most people wearing gloves in public are doing more harm by wearing them than good.

You should watch the nurses in the ER. They put on gloves before going into a patient's room, do what they need to do, remove the gloves when they leave the room, then use some of the hand sanitizer that can be found in a wall mounted dispenser outside every room. That's a good model for wearing gloves. They go through a lot of gloves each day. I don't even want to think about cloth gloves and infectious diseases. Yuck!!!

Most people would be best served by avoiding toughing their faces and washing their hands and/or using hand sanitizer regularly. And, most importantly, social distancing. I don't mean to minimize the imortance of hand washing but they believe the primary means of transmission for this virus is through the air, not through surface contact.

I keep a container of hand sanitizer setting in the console in my car. When I'm out, I avoid touching anything that I don't have to touch and I avoid touching my face. When I get back in my car, I apply hand sanitizer, then I close my car door and put on my selt belt. When I get home, I remove my shoes and coat, wash my hands, change into my inside clothes, and then wash my hands again. If I'm coming back from an ambulance call where I've been in close proximity to people who are sick with Covid I will take a shower before putting on my inside clothes but otherwise, unless somebody was coughing or sneezing on me while I was out I don't bother with the shower.

If I've been shopping, cold stuff gets put in the fridge or freezer. Everything else is immediatley removed from the bags and set out on a table I have next to my back door. I leave it sitting there overnight before putting it away. I know they say the virus can be detected up to 72 hours on some surfaces but that's under ideal (worst case) conditions and they don't say that the virus is still infectious after all of that time so I think leaving my groceries untouched overnight is probably a sufficient safeguard. Maybe Marvin will join in. I believe he mentioned he is a biologist.

BTW, I just checked the latest numbers for coronavirus in NY. Yesterday, April 3rd, there were 1,095 new hospital admissions and 1,592 discharges!!!