[em5731]

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11013.0


A little progress in 4.5 years.

[em5731]

Ex came for a visit today. Back to no eye contact. He is having a hard time as my daughter will not budge with him. He seems upset but not able to connect with her. It’s sad as he thinks she will snap out of it and want to be around him, every day he is shocked that nothing has changed.

[em5731]

Journaling

Ex is still with OW. My friend seen them on Facebook. The crazy thing it that the pictures were taken closer to my town this his, places we used to go. He lives 30 minutes away and he comes around here with her.  He canceled his time with my daughter as he is going away with her this weekend. Maybe this is what he wants a life with out me and kids.
I am thinking this is just who he is. After 5 years nothing has changed and I really don't think anything is going to. I do have my own life as I'm not sitting around pining over him. But after 5 years I think I'm am going to start dating and move on from this. He looks so miserbale when he is here, I thought he was miserable with his life but now I'm thinking maybe he is just miserable when he has to come here.

[Treasur]

More likely, he is just miserable full stop......those darned consequences right? 

[em5731]

hi treasure

Maybe he is miserable, but he makes no effort here. I don't know if he has suffered any consequences, other than my daughter not liking him. I can only hope he has

[Treasur]

From reading here, I think the amount of miserable is an inside job more than about outside consequences, if that makes sense em. I think they are miserable bc they just are and that is their lens on the world.....if they are not angry or replay happy, they see themselves as miserable misunderstood victims of an unfair world and/or a mean LBS  ......your xh may just have run out of MLC angry/replay steam right now......as you said earlier 'he is shocked nothing has changed' with your daughter, life has bowled along without him full of burned bridges, he probably like others has no real sense of how long it has been.....so he is (in his head perhaps) stuck with what's he got isn't he? Whether he likes it or not. Which I increasingly think is how the real karma bus shows up for these folks  The real consequence is that they get what they wanted and then, with time, realise they are still not happy.....

[Rising Phoenix]

Attaching em xx

[em5731]

Journaling

Today is my birthday, it's been almost 5 years since my ex left. He sent me an email saying happy birthday, hope you have a great day. Im shocked. He hasn't said anything nice to me or even acknowledge that I exist, Not even for mothers day. But he told me the year before he left that I'm not his mother so I don't deserve a happy mothers day from him. Maybe this is progress, who knows. On his last visit, he looked horrible. So angry every time he comes here. I couldn't imagine living with someone who is just so mad all the time. 

[Treasur]

Well, happy birthday, em 

Yup...weird but who knows....and as you say I'm sure your birthday is more peaceful without Mr Angry around 
How is your daughter doing!

[LBS_Les]

Happy Birthday, fellow gemini! 

[FaithWalker]

Happy birthday!

[Upintheair]

Happy Birthday from me too!
 I think they reserve their worst look for the lbs. Its funny, now mine is at home with us and he works from home too. He talks and acts  miserable sometimes towards us and then he goes into "his" room gets on video calls and   we  hear how happily he talks and laughs  when he forgets that we might hear him.

[megogirl]

Happy Birthday!  And yay for the kind regards from him.  I think I would fall over to get a HBD.

Mine treats me like a bastard at a family reunion!

[em5731]

Treasure, lbs, faithwalker and upintheair. Thank you for the birthday wishes.

Treasure, my daughter is doing better, she doesn't want to be around her father. She has been easier to live with, thank god. I have no plans to be around mr angry at all. I was just shocked he remembered me.

Upintheair. I have read your thread. I haven't seen much of my ex to know that they save there nastiness for there family, but I'm not surprised. When he comes to see my daughter you would think that this is the last place he wanted to be.

[3Boys4Me]

Happy Birthday Em!

[Milly]

Happy Birthday, Em! Hope you had a good day. it's my D's birthday today.

Bizarre how these MLCers can pop out of nowhere and suddenly remember you.

[em5731]

Thanks Milly

It is bizarre, he has not said anything in 5 years. It probably means nothing. Im sure I won't happen again fro another 5 years

[megogirl]

Em

Don’t you think he may be poking out of the tunnel and is now testing the waters with you?

I’m just saying....five years seems to be around “that time.”

[em5731]

Hi Mego

He might be. He is still with Ow as far as I know. I think he try's to get my attention sometimes. Just dropping a crumb my way will not make me give him any attention. He needs to act like and adult and a parent before I will even bother to have a conversation with him

[Puzzled]

Happy birthday, Em! I haven't had much time lately to read on here but I have been thinking of looking into your story at some point.  I think we have some similarities as to when our (x)Hs left, the age of our Ds (mine just turned 12) and the struggles they have had.  My D is feeling better now but there were times when she lashed out at me a lot. It was very tough for me at times to deal with this challenging behavior and see the immense pain that lay at the bottom of her anger and outbursts.  It is heart-breaking what many (most?) children of MLCers go through.

I totally get what you are saying about your H trying to get your attention.  My xH seems to do that, too.

[KeepItTogether]

Happy Birthday!  Mine is another who will try to get my attention when he thinks I've "moved on." I equate it to a petulant teenager who doesn't want me, but doesn't want anyone else to have me either. It is beyond childish.

[em5731]

Thanks  Puzzled

I just read your thread we do have a lot of similarities, Its sad what are children had to go through because there dads don't have there crap together. I have had a lot of issues with my daughter to. She will not admit that she is angry, she also has outbursts. It sad that she doesn't trust anyone. I guess I don't either, but its sad to watch as my ex basically ruined her childhood

[em5731]

Thanks KIT

My Ex is also a petulant teenager. Mine also try's to help me around the house or buy things that I need. He will hear things from my older daughter, I guess that helps with the guilt. I don't really talk to him, I do respond if he asks a question but other than that I'm no contact

[em5731]

Journaling

Ex shows up 2 hours late for his visit, he did email to say he would be late, unlike him to let us know. But he did this time,  He said to my daughter will you please forgive me I know I have made alot of mistakes, (that knew for him to admit). My 12 year old daughter said NO. You are an adult you should know better, she came in locked the door and never went back outside. I m glad she was able to express how she feels. And for him I hope that hurt like hell !

[em5731]

My older daughter called today, she is very close to her dad (ex). She said that he would help me more financially if I would be willing to sit down and talk to him about things. I don't know what that means. Thats all she said and I didn't want to push it. I guess he said he knows I won't talk to him. But he wishes we could a conversation.  He has never reached out to me. I don't know if I can talk to him as he has done so much to me and my kids. I don't know if he thinks we can be friends. He is still with ow as far I know. Its kind of thrown off my day today. Maybe he wants to talk about my younger daughter.

[megogirl]

Awe em

I guess I’m just a sucker or perhaps a glutton for punishment but I almost feel bad for him.  It sounds like he’s trying at least but I certainly don’t blame your daughter for being pissed.

Again - I’m probably just a wicked sucker.

[em5731]

Mego

I don't see it that way. Talk is cheap. I haven't seen any effort on his part. Trying to be a human after 5 years of crap, he needs to do the work and make amends for what he has done. My daughter really can't stand him. I stay away from it and let them deal with it.

[KeepItTogether]

Agreed. He needs to man up and be the father worthy of this forgiveness he seeks.  Asking Mommy (you) for help is certainly not the answer.  And not reflective of someone who has put in the work. It's definitely sad. But not something we (LBS) can fix for them. Nor should we. These things make me spin too Em. I get it.

[Philadelphiagirl]

Hi Em,

These things make me spin too! I really don't like the triangulation stuff where messages are passed through someone else because the ML'er does not have the courage to speak with us directly. I have had such conversation via teachers and the kids when he was in touch with them. It is not our job to fix their mess. Sorry if I am sounding cynical but saying that he will give you money if you would sit down and talk to him sounds manipulative.  Agreed - he needs to man up and be the father worthy of this forgiveness he seeks.......I get it too - 5 years of hurt cannot be fixed in a 10 minute conversation. PG xxx       

[Treasur]

The 'I'll meet my financial obligations if you will talk to me' thing? And via a third party?
Well, you don't get what Chump Lady calls a b!tc# cookie for meeting your basic obligations imho.
And I would tell your daughter that you are only going to pay attention to anything when he a) acts first and b) speaks for himself.....y'know like a grown up 
Not bc you don't respect her, but bc you refuse to be triangulated via her.....
And yes it is manipulative. And yes by 'talk', he likely either means listen, be nice or fix my problem for me.....

With a detached compassionate eye, em, there is no doubt that your xh is in a pickle and has no idea how to even get your youngest to give him the time of day. Which is sad....but still not your problem....he has plenty of ways he could find ideas on what he might do from Google to books to professionals.....and quite rightly your priority if you have to be involved at all is to support your daughter and validate her feelings whether you agree with her actions or not. Well, quite the conundrum for your xh......he's tried rage, self pity, now attempted bribery and using a 'flying monkey' to speak for him.....I wonder what he will try next? 

[in it]

Looks like some of us are getting educated..
Good job Em.
Great post Treasur, Philly Girl, and KIT
And yes Mego you are on the naive side of things. There's no feeling sorry for them.
Stand your ground Em. Talk is cheap.

[em5731]

Kit. If he wants to speak to me and can reach out. I'm not in middle school anymore. You are right he needs to fix his relationship on his own.

Philadelphia. It does make my head spin, you are not cynical at all. Until he shows remorse and is truthful, I don't have anything to say. I don't think he will man up. he seems afraid to speak to me. He has none me my whole life. He knows there is no way I can just sweep this under the rug like it didn't happen and speak to him like a human. I don't think he has the balls

Hi Treasure
He meets his obligations . He can see I need extra things done around the house. I don't trust my oldest daughter at all. I told her I don't want to discuss him or his family again, and that if he needs something he can send an email. He is in a pickle of his own doing, she treats him horrible and he has allowed this for so long and now he doesn't have the power to stop it. I want to help there relationship as I don't want her to be a screwed up adult. But he needs to fix it and right now she will not listen to me as far as he in concerned. I also wonder what is next. Lol treasure.


Hi Init

I don't know if I'm educated on mlc or I have just had enough of it. Im not a door mat, I am not putting up with the games. He needs to grow up and take responsibility for his actions. I have learned a lot about myself during this process.  I used to put up with a lot of crap, I have learned to have a back bone, and to think of myself first and not him. That is a huge change for me

[sachat3]

To some extent I feel sorry for all these MLCers. I mean, how rubbish must it be to see your ex and kids living a happy and fulfilling life without you. However it also serves them right.

I don’t blame you for not wanting your daughter to be in the middle aside from anything it’s unfair on her!

[in it]

Most certainly you are not a doormat, and playing games with these guys gets old after a while.
After too much crap enough is enough.

[em5731]

Sachat

At one time I did feel sorry for him as he looks like crap. But thats the life he chose. My daughter actually can't stand to be around him. its a battle every time he show.

Init
He chose this life and I want know part of it. The games do get old, they really need to grow up and be adults.

[em5731]

I got an email from my ex today, he had a drinking problem for years. He wasn't always that nice to me or my children.He said he was so sorry for being horrible to us back then. I don't know what to make of it. I guess I'm glad he feels sorry now. I didn't respond as I don't know what to say, this was a very bad time in my life. Its right up there with BD. Do you think he is taking stock in his life, he is thinking about the past. 

[Treasur]

Yes, em, I suspect he is....there were a few glimmers a little while ago iirc before he romped back to selfpity and rage. And he has a lot more self repair work to do doesn't he? It sounds, reading between the lines, as if he is apologising for his behaviour while drinking specifically but not other things? So, maybe a partial look?

If you don't know what to say, it's ok to say nothing until you do. Or indeed to just say nothing. Or to say you don't know what to say lol.
Who knows, maybe he is working some 12 step programme....if so, he'll know (or learn) that people have no obligation to respond just bc you apologise and would like them to. That an apology is not a downpayment on a future favour or a magic erasing wand lol. And you will see if his apology is worth much by how he responds if he had an agenda which didn't get met  ....which sadly is possible bc I think your xh is in a real pickle and wants help with his daughter bc he doesn't know what to do....so if you do nothing and he flips back to anger or selfpity, well that will tell you quite a lot about how genuine his recovery progress/efforts are.

Out of interest, has he apologised to anyone else like your older kids as far as you know?
And does he still drink?

[em5731]

Hi treasure

This was something that happened 20 years ago. My son doesn't speak to him. He was sober for 15 years until mlc happened. Now I have no idea if he drinks or not. He said he can not believe that he had treated us so bad. He is not talking about current events. My son thinks he is doing this for attention as he receives none from me. I just thought is was interesting that after all this time he has regrets about. I wouldn't not even know what say to him.

[in it]

Then don't say anything Em.
He has to learn to take personal responsibly for his actions. Maybe he's working on himself maybe not.
He may want you to join in the oh poor me party.
A bit of remorse is there as he acknowledged how badly he treated his family.

[KeepItTogether]

Em I know how you feel for sure. I have received MANY apologies from H--for things he has done and continues to do. And only now do I realize how self serving it is. I simply say thank you and move on from any kind of expectation. True remorse requires one to actually change the behavior for which one is apologizing. And that determination can only be made through the passage of time. I agree with In It though in that the acknowledgement is something.

[em5731]

HI init

Im not saying anything to him. Im glad he ackwolegdes the pain he caused back then, he seemed remorseful in his message, But that event happened 27 years ago. Unfortunately he has done many bad things since then. Hopefully for his kids he is working on him self.

kiT
Im sure he is trying to get me to say thats ok, I forgive you. I don't forgive him. I learned to live with it. It is something that still bothers me to this day. Maybe he feels bad. nice of him to join the party as I have been living with this for years. He is changing for sure, no Monster and he has admitted to my daughter that he has made at lot of mistakes. But that monster can show up at anytime.

 

[Treasur]

It does occur to me em that, if his processing and remorse are genuine, if he is just at the 27 years ago mark now it might take him quite a while to get to more recent transgressions  .....like watching paint dry  ....makes complete sense to shrug and leave him to it imho 

[em5731]

Treasure do you think he is working his way up the years of his life. Maybe that’s why he isn’t acting like a teenager. Interesting

[Treasur]

Treasure do you think he is working his way up the years of his life. Maybe that’s why he isn’t acting like a teenager. Interesting

I've heard stories here that suggest they might. I think RCR might mention the idea somewhere actually. That basically in crisis they subconsciously regress to a point in time of whatever most wounded them and subconsciously recreate patterns in an effort to deal with whatever that was about. In fact, my first trauma IC, based on a short potted history of my then h, said that I would most likely see him behaving like an angry abandoned 15 year old which was pretty close to what happened....no idea if he has made it into his 20s by now lol

[em5731]

That is very interesting. I didn’t know that. We had been married for 5 years if thats where he is now. Hopefully yours is in his 20s. Lol. Ex had all his childhood issues way before that. Maybe he already worked through it. But I’m sure the last 5 years will be a doozy for him. Lol

[em5731]

I mentioned to my older daughter that my car was having some issue, and she recommend a mechanic. He fixed my car and when I went to pay he said the bill has already been paid. My ex called before I got there and told them to bill his credit card. Shocking !

[Gracie3]

I am so glad to hear that.  I’m like you, skeptical of everything the MLCer does, but am so glad he did that for you.  I tend to get anxious about my future and sometimes my thoughts run ahead of me.  I just finished a devotional which told me to just be grateful for this moment and see the blessing in the present day and instead of worrying what tomorrow brings.  So grateful for your blessing today.  Who knows what tomorrow holds but we can be thankful for today. 

[in it]

Em

 

[em5731]

At first I thought who is he to know what im doing and pay my bills. But then I seen the amount and said ok.

Gracie I am skeptical as he has been around a lot and trying to do descent things. My thoughts used to be all over the place as well. I could not stop thinking about all of this and it got better as I do think of it but just in a different way now. You are right we never know what tomorrow brings as I never lived in the present until all of this and now I am grateful for every day I have

[Treasur]

Hmm...for some reason the phrase about Greeks bearing gifts springs to mind, em 
Ah well, if your xh has expectations, that is his problem. If you are content to see it as a small recompense for what I imagine is a large amount of financial obligations he previously failed to meet lol....no problem for you 

[em5731]

Hi Treasure

I don't know if he has expectations, I have nothing to offer him. I didn't ask him to pay for me. I think for him its easier to throw money at a problem than to have to deal with it. When I see him in person he looks like a crab thats afraid of me. But he will do things financially for me. Maybe thats his way of feeling relavent to us. Who knows. It saved me a lot of money today !

[sachat3]

Clington is the exact same. If he can throw money at something he will do. Without hesitation. Each and every single time he has the girls I can see from D8 TikToks it’s “dad bought this” “dad bought that”. Every other weekend he easily spends £100 on the girls. When I think, we’ll that £100 could be a nice day out making memories. Not on toys. But his money. His issue. One day his money will run out! So take the mechanic repairs whilst you can lol

[em5731]

Ex used to buy my younger daughter everything when they were talking. He still does this with my older daughters. It’s sad they really can’t have a relationship with someone so they throw money around. He sent an email saying if I need any money for anything to please let him know. I won’t do that as I feel like he is trying to buy me.

[sachat3]

I have the same issue. It was only the other day his brother was moving house and said I could buy his tumble dryer. He only bought it in March so it’s practically brand new. Clington visited  his brother picked it up etc, brought it at child drop off and then when I tried paying him for it (he paid his brother!) he was adamant I didn’t need too. But I still did. I refuse to give him the satisfaction of “I paid for that”. He can spend his money on his kids if he wants, I can’t really stop that but I’ll focus on memories and moments over materialistic items.

[em5731]

Hi Sachat

Mine pays for things, but we don't talk face to face, if he knows I am getting things done, he try's to pay. I will not respond if he asks me to pay for something. Looking back at out marriage he always bought us things rather than being present in our lives

[sachat3]

Yeah I think that’s fairly common.

With me and clington, we barely made ends meet when we were together. However it appears he’s got himself a sugar mama. So the spare money he does have gets sqandered. However it makes me laugh because recently I bought the kids a load of new summer clothes. Nothing major just shorts, T-shirt’s etc and he said “wow you must be made of money?” No clington, but the kids need summer clothes not 27 million LOL dolls.

The sad fact is, children won’t remember money spent. They remember who was there and things they did than what they got bought.

[em5731]

HI sachat

 Kids will remember who was there at dinner time and who took care of them. Not who bought them toys so they don't have to deal with them. Hopefully our childrens dads realize that

[em5731]

Journaling

Ex showed up for visit, late as usual. He looks horrible, I can do so much better than that ! lol. He has a long beard that is 3 different colors. He must still be in replay, hearing stories from my older daughter. There is no way the guy I knew would do the things he is doing. He has basically lost 2 of kids they want nothing to do with him, he makes it seem like he is doing everything in his power to win my daughter back. I don't know if he thinks im stupid. He really isn't do anything but complain she is not nice to him. crazy !

[KeepItTogether]

I think they honestly believe they are “doing everything” to make things right. And maybe they are bc they are such broken people now. I’m not excusing it. But to them even the smallest of efforts they make can seem  overwhelming. These are not well people. My H is now completely avoiding our son. I think I’m his mind he is bring honorable bc I’m pretty sure he was exposed to Covid while on vaycay with his “peeps.” So, it works out. And truly, at the end of the day, I’m grateful my S doesn’t have to be around a person with horrific values and no morals right now. I think 4 years is when so many of them are determined to make their new lives work. And yet they are finding themselves in a whole new level of depression.

And.....3 colored long beard? Ummmmmm no.

[em5731]

KIT, my ex believes he is doing everything right and anyday she is going to come around. He is actually shocked when he doesn't get through to her. I think staying away from your son is probably a good idea, especially if he was exposed. It's funny how theses guys, once well respected men go on vacays with girlfriends and friends. My ex doesn't seem to realize he is in his 50s not his 20s.

The beard, good grief, its a bad look, yuck.  When he is being nice to me he doesn't have it. I can always tell when things are going to go back to monster.

[Milly]

Em, isn't it funny (bizarre) how we can see when our Hs are back in the tunnel-back with OW? Coloured beard, or in my case it's how my H dresses. Definite sign of Replay, well said. A normal person dresses the same way, does their hair/beard the same way every day. There's no changing depending on who is around. You know there is something wrong with them if you are not sure of which person is turning up.

[sachat3]

I say the same Milly. If I mention MLC to my friends, I think especially because clington is on the younger end I get the “oh are you sure it is” almost like it’s a excuse. But if it was just a relationship breaking down. Why isn’t he speaking to his cousins and friends? Why have they gone too? They didn’t with the breakups before me. Why has he changed cars twice. Why has he changed jobs and looking for a new one. Why has he moved out or the area. Why has he changed his hair. His dress sense. Why has literally everything changed about him barring his name and date of birth? 😂

[Milly]

Sach, I don't mention MLC to my friends any more. I've had people say to me 'it'd definitely not a MLC.' But they know absolutely nothing about a what a MLC is. I find that people don't want to hear about my separation, or that I should still love my H. They want immediate closure as in: 'you didn't get on any more and you decided to split up. Everyone now moves on.'  So that's what I give them. I don't talk to my friends about H. If they ask, I just answer that he's the usual. 

[em5731]

it is bizarre, when I see the crazy beard, I don't expect the child support on time. It is generally put in to my account at 6 am, if the beard is crazy its 1159 pm. I haven't really told anyone at mlc either. Everyone that I know just believes he wanted someone else and left. Which I guess is kind of what happened. Milly there is definitely nothing normal about this.

[KeepItTogether]

Well yes, they did want someone else. True. But then did they also decide to quit bring a parent too? And for many, find all new friends, dumping the old? And “breaking up”
With their FOO too? I do find that most of my friends understand mlc. And they agree H is the poster child for it. But they also think this is who he is now. Which it is. So what difference does it make in terms of walking away and “moving on?”  They don’t get the pain and agony inflicted upon us bc we don’t share the worst of it for the most part. Or that we need a lot of time to recover from the trauma of it all.  And I don’t like talking about it too much anyway bc it tends to stir up feelings of despair.

[em5731]

My friends understand it, they just think its a deal breaker and its not my problem, and that it doesn't excuse the way he treated me or my kids. My friends also think that ex is just the person he has always wanted to be. That he was a family person as long as he could be and that he is done with it. I just don't talk about it with anyone as like you it brings up a lot of feelings that I have put away.

[em5731]

Journaling

A house on my street came up for sale and my estranged daughter put a bid in. We haven't spoken in years, she is  basically my ex 's shadow(he has the money). Thank god she was out bid as she planned on living there her her father, he was going to live in the in law apartment over the large.This house is 2 houses away from mine. I would have just ruined my life to have my ex and OW and my daughter and her family so close. I thought I was going to have a nervous break down. I am so shocked my daughter would have put me through that. I guess that shows me how little both of them care about my feelings 

[Milly]

Em, so glad the bid didn't go through. I think it's not so much that your D and ex are not considering your feelings, it's more that they are only considering their own feelings. We don't seem to figure into the picture at all, not even in the negative way.

[em5731]

Milly, you are probably right. it just would have ruined my life, I would sell my house and get out of town if that happened. I don't know why they would even look in this town.

[Milly]

Em, I would sell and move away too if that happened to me. I think they come close to the LBS for a few reasons. Our Hs are drawn to living near us, because something in their subconscious makes being close to us feel safe. If the OW is the usual psycho, she likes to push their relationship in our faces.

[em5731]

Milly. I have never met the the OW, Ex never confirmed her, I have never asked my kids. But I do know he brought her to our divorce hearing. So she is cleary a piece of work. My lawyer told me after, as his lawyer was saying what kind of person does that. I think he is afraid to be around me. Well he should be lol

[sachat3]

I’ve never met my ow however she does occasionally sit in the car when he drops the kids off. Usually a door or two down.

For two years post bomb drop clington lived next door to me and it was hell. Usually he would stay in a hotel or at ow. Luckily she never stayed at his but still. I think I was happier them moving in together than him living next door to me.

[em5731]

Hi Sachat

My daughter won’t get in the car with him. Sometimes he parks at the end of the drive way. She could be in the car during his visit. As long as she stays in car I could care less. I don’t know how you did it with clington next store. I thought I was having a panic attack when I found out. I am also happier with him living with ow in another state. I never bump into him anywhere.

[sachat3]

I know that feeling well. Although, this weekend they did decide to go to the supermarket local to me. No idea why 😂

[em5731]

Mine has done that as well. I don’t like it. But I have only seen him there twice and he was by himself. Maybe just trying to be in a familiar place.

[sachat3]

Yeah luckily I’ve never bumped into him in public which is handy Cos I’m not sure how I would react. Although I wouldn’t mind if I was on a fancy date with a big hunk

[em5731]

Journling

I found out that OW is 15 years younger than exh, has never been married and has no kid. She is acting like a grandmother to my estranged daughters chidren. That bothers me. not ex she can have him. Everyone says he is very happy. I guess when you throw your famly in the trash get a younger girlfriend have no relatioship with 2 of your kids how can you forget what you have done. i just don't understand how he is happy. Don't get me wrong, I am not unhappy it just seems like there was no consequences for his actions.  Most days I could care less, today its pissing me off that she is with my grandchilren that I barley know because when he left my daughter stopped talking to me. I guess im just venting. I will get over it tomorrow i always do.

[Gracie3]

I hear you.  I know you will be okay tomorrow, but it’s okay to be pissed today.  Sending hugs your way!  Is the OW the original alienator? 

[em5731]

Hi Gracie. Yes it is as far as I know. The karma bus will hit him some day.

[em5731]

I got more of an insight into my ex h every day life. I thought he was happy, thats just for me to think. For the lbs that thinks you are missing something in there life. I dont think your are. My ex accually cant stand the OW, he treats her badly and tells her to leave his house and she doesnt. But he is not man enough to kick her out. From what i heard is that he cant get rid of her. I always thought i was just replaced, he would not get a way with treating me like that. i do think his life cant be that happy living like that. Does that make my day. Hell ya !  grass in not always greener ! 

[sachat3]

I get a similar insight from my kids too. They’ve been witness to a few arguments. And things they have heard clington say to ow are shocking. He wouldn’t dare say them to me. I never get monster, but I assume she does.

[Treasur]

It hasn't always felt this way lol, but rationally it makes sense to me that many of these relationships are inherently dysfunctional, MLC or not. That they are just not the kind of relationships most of us chose to have with our spouses or indeed previous relationships. Or would want to have now.

Blowing up your old life/family etc to 'win' an ow/om is logically putting all your eggs in one high risk stakes emotional basket isn't it? And that must add some pressure and latent expectations about the relationship being 'perfect' and 'worth it'. And no relationship can easily carry that weight. It's a bit like the difference between me moving a few miles to live with someone vs moving to Alaska....the stakes are just bigger lol.

Plus both of you know....even if you don't admit it....that you are in a relationship with someone who is capable of tremendous deceit and betrayal, who is capable of throwing people who loved and trusted them, for much longer than you have known them probably, under a bus if they are not 'happy'. I'm sure for a while your 'twu luv' story combined with some shared narcissism allows you to tell yourself that you're special so it will be different with you....but I imagine over time that might fade a bit. It's not a great foundation to build a solid future on is it?

Plus in many cases it seems that both MLC spouses and the type of ow they pick who agree to play are not emotionally very healthy adults full stop. Rationally - although it is so hard to really get this as an LBS in our bones - if we didn't make them act this way, then ow/om can't stop them either can they? It is about them, in them...and they carry that mess off with them into their new lives. And what do you do when your magic Happy is no longer magic or happy....when the normal challenges of real life and relationships appear as they inevitably do for all of us?

Tbh with time and distance I am probably more surprised if I hear stories that the ex/spouse is living a good healthy stable life years down the road.
I think the reality of the karma bus is usually that they get to both live with exactly what they chose, the predictable consequences that come with that and the people they have become 

[em5731]

Hi Sachat and treasure

Im sure it it dysfunctional. Not something I would want to be around. It is good to hear that his life sucks. After everything that has happened he really needs to suffer. I could never be around him after what he did, so dysfunction is what he deserves.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I got more of an insight into my ex h every day life. I thought he was happy,

Happiness is not found from external sources, but instead comes from within. A lot of our MLCers find a high with the new partner, but it only treats the symptoms not the issue. A lot of excitement with someone new. The chemicals in the brain, the buzz of the many firsts. Most of all, it justifies their reasoning that it was all about you in the first place. When I am with my LBSer, I am in pain and miserable. However, when I am with the new person. Well, she/he gets me. They make me feel like I am alive again.

Just like any chemical dependence, their relationship is complex, complicated, but not necessarily healthy or wholesome. Each relationship has it's own dynamics and no two are exactly alike. Some, like my ex, loved the fantasy of someone being their "soul mate" and saving them from the misery they felt. Some are about control and power.

In the end, it just about two people using each other. It is not a transformational relationship, it is merely transactional. Some are satisfied with the arrangement and are content to use the other person for years; most are not. The high wears off and the misery returns and now the other person is the source of their pain. The alienator is not the cause of MLC, instead they enable the MLCer to escape and avoid the crisis and their issues. The affair is not the root cause of MLC, it just enables the MLCer to kick the can down the road.

In the end, it is still the crisis of the MLCer and they alone have to resolve the issues or live an empty life. Their choice, not ours

(((((Ready))))

[New Day Rising]

I couldn't agree more. There is a constant need for other people to fulfill their needs in some way as if that is going to solve all of their problems. I don't really have much insight into my ex and OW's life, but I hear the odd little story now and again from my son, but he never goes into too much detail. I also know when things aren't going well, when my kids tell me they've had McDonald's at their dad's house or he asks to drop them home early. It's generally when OW isn't on the scene for whatever reason to provide a home cooked meal for them and to look after them. He can't cope with the responsibility on his own.

At the moment, my ex has become transfixed on my son. He is constantly sending him messages on WhatsApp and is getting very frustrated when he doesn't reply, which is a lot! He is now needing the kids to fix him. He couldn't give a monkey's before that as the OW provided all his ego boosting needs. Instead, my son is getting messages about ex's new fish, his newly landscaped garden, all the lessons he is planning and the occasional message in block capitals 'WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER MY MESSAGES?, followed by 'I love you'. My son is losing his patience with it all.

Even OW messaged my son to say she can't wait for him to see the new garden. It's ace! My son is like 'This garden had better be amazing, otherwise I'm going to be disappointed. I wonder if there's a swing or a slide for my sister'.

[em5731]

Ready

When I thought he was happy I was a little disappointed, not because I want him back, because he caused so much damage to me and my kids he just doesn't deserve it. What you said makes sense. He needs this craziness to escape his everyday life. It is a transactional relationship. Whic he would have never received that from me. I know it mlc but its always nice to have it confirmed as this is not how normal people in their 50s behave. 

[em5731]

New day

That's how my ex is, we have 4 children he really only has a relationship with one. He just can not get enough of my daughter. she is married with her own family he he is always with them, he brings ow as well, but from what I here he treats her so badly that its embarrassing.The whatsapp, the mlcer favorite place to be. Your ex seems a lot more clingy to your son than I have seen in other mlcers. He probably wants to show off his new things to prove how happy he is. Crazyness

[New Day Rising]

Yes em5731 they do sound very similar. My kids are younger. My son is 11 and so has recently got a mobile phone and so he can't contact my daughter quite the same as she's 4.

He wasn't always like this towards my son, it's only in the last few weeks where I am sensing that things aren't going to swimmingly with new wifey and so he needs a new outlet to feed his ego as he isn't getting that from her.

Yesterday, my ex decided to come into the house and call me 3x from my house phone. I had sent him a message in the morning to say that my daughter was getting her hair cut and so we might be 10mins late for when he collects them for a few hours. He didn't get the message as he had left his phone at home.

My son was home and could have explained the situation, but still felt is appropriate to come into my home and call me 3x off my home phone. If it was totally necessary to call me, my son could have done the calling or he could have used my son's mobile phone. So, I missed the 3 calls from the house phone and called it back expecting my son to answer and it was ex. I was totally taken aback by it. I couldn't say anything as I was in the hairdressers with my daughter and 6 other strangers. He crossed a boundary that I have been very firm with and he knows it.

I don't know if I should be this mad. I just envision him snooping around my house while I'm not around. Grrrr

[sachat3]

Personally I would also be mad. Clington rarely comes inside my house. And when he does he usually stands in the kitchen like a lost part. You would think my house had cooties the way he acts.

[em5731]

New day

I wouldn't want my ex in my house either. He left this house. It took 3 years for him to come to my door. He would probably explode if he came in. lol

[em5731]

Journaling

The ex-husband sent me extra money this week, with a note saying just in case you need anything. Don't get me wrong I'm happy about the money I just can't but wonder why is he being nice.   

[sachat3]

I’m the same. It clington is extra nice I wonder what he’s done:planning

[em5731]

Sachat. Just sending me money to be nice. My guard is up for sure.

[Gracie3]

I can relate.  The nicer my husband is ... the bigger the blunder that is coming my way!  So sad that we have become so cynical.   

[sachat3]

Yeah I would keep the guard up. However extra money is always a bonus!

[Milly]

Em, it's good your guard is up. If there's one good thing we learn from all of this is to trust our gut. I know that until BD, I was so trusting and excusing of everyone, especially my H, but BD was a massive lesson. It's kind of sad of course to always be looking for the shady side in our H's kind actions, but at least we've got our eyes open. The extra money is always handy for our own needs so glad you got it.

[New Day Rising]

Personally I would also be mad. Clington rarely comes inside my house. And when he does he usually stands in the kitchen like a lost part. You would think my house had cooties the way he acts.

Yeah, mine just wanted a nosey I think as his mum had told him about my new kitchen. I'm sure that's what it was about.

Well, I got another bomb drop yesterday from ex. He is the sh**ty gift that keeps on giving. OW is pregnant. I have had my cry about it and I'm trying not to dwell on it. I just find it so disrespectful and hurtful that he left when I was pregnant with our 2nd child to be with OW and caused nothing but chaos abusive behaviour towards me and made my pregnancy utterly miserable. Now he's acting like doting husband/father of the year for the OW.

Not my monkeys. I keep telling myself. Kids came home very happy to be having another brother or sister. I said to my son I found it a bit hurtful and he told me to get over it. So, I won't be making any further comments about it.

Ex's mum messaged me to say she loves me and that she hopes I am ok. I was very touched by this.

[Treasur]

OW is pregnant.

Of course she is, New Day......

It's extraordinary really how many of these disordered folks are textbook predictable once we stop sobbing our guts out at the horror of it all. Shiny new house/wedding kibbles worn off? Have a baby....control and attention in a 2 for 1 
There is something quite repulsive about any woman who would knowingly have an affair with a man whose wife is pregnant imho....I trust that the universe will send her horrible stretch marks, haemorrhoids and bad pregnancy skin 

I suspect that, much as none of us wish harm to a new young innocent life, your xh and owife are about to see the karma bus show up. Iirc your xh does not much like not being the only needy child in the house getting attention  He isn't much of a father to his two existing children; he won't magically be a better one to a third....owife is going to have to dance hard and tighten the leash more I suspect  .....but hey, reminds me of that phrase about being careful what you wish for in case you get it so not much sympathy from me....
And playing occasional 'family' with borrowed children is rather different from f/t parenthood so owife's life is going to get rather tougher.

None of which, as you say, is your circus. It might feel like a mini BD so by all means let yourself have a few moments (and explain to your son that we are all entitled to our feelings and that being kind costs little...ah, tweens  ) but I know you know that is normal and reasonable. And that the course his life takes now may be a looming s$itshow but not your s$itshow until/unless it affects how he treats your kids. Who knows, if you're lucky, your xh may fade quietly into the chaos of his own life?. (As someone with a vanisher, I must admit I now see tremendous benefits  ....and I suspect em agrees, being able to take the money with a shrug )

[sachat3]

I think, it’s easy for you to look at it and be like “oh he’s got his happy lige” he really hasn’t. And nor has she. She knows he’s capable of cheating with a pregnant wife, so go figure what pregnancy hormones are going to do to her monkey braining. However, I firmly believe that’s her karma. Likw was said before me, the type of woman that cheats with a man with a pregnant  wife is nobody to aspire too!

I have something I want to share with you.
1) I saw a TikTok that said “I don’t know who’s daughter needs to hear this, but if a man will leave his whole entire family for you....he will leave you for a whole entire other b!tch”

[em5731]

Newday
I am so sorry to hear that. Now she has her claws in him for the rest of his life, My daughter doesn't get it either. when they look back as adults they will understand what you went through. Don't be too sure he is doting, my ex treats ow like crap but posts thing on FB to make it seem how happy he is.

Milly
I will take his money any day of the week. And no I do not trust him.It actually makes me parniod when he does something nice. Such a sad way to be.

Sachat
How true is that.

Treasure
Yes I just shrug and take that money. I am sure it wont happen again

[New Day Rising]

OW is pregnant.

Of course she is, New Day......

It's extraordinary really how many of these disordered folks are textbook predictable once we stop sobbing our guts out at the horror of it all. Shiny new house/wedding kibbles worn off? Have a baby....control and attention in a 2 for 1 
There is something quite repulsive about any woman who would knowingly have an affair with a man whose wife is pregnant imho....I trust that the universe will send her horrible stretch marks, haemorrhoids and bad pregnancy skin 

I suspect that, much as none of us wish harm to a new young innocent life, your xh and owife are about to see the karma bus show up. Iirc your xh does not much like not being the only needy child in the house getting attention  He isn't much of a father to his two existing children; he won't magically be a better one to a third....owife is going to have to dance hard and tighten the leash more I suspect  .....but hey, reminds me of that phrase about being careful what you wish for in case you get it so not much sympathy from me....
And playing occasional 'family' with borrowed children is rather different from f/t parenthood so owife's life is going to get rather tougher.

None of which, as you say, is your circus. It might feel like a mini BD so by all means let yourself have a few moments (and explain to your son that we are all entitled to our feelings and that being kind costs little...ah, tweens  ) but I know you know that is normal and reasonable. And that the course his life takes now may be a looming s$itshow but not your s$itshow until/unless it affects how he treats your kids. Who knows, if you're lucky, your xh may fade quietly into the chaos of his own life?. (As someone with a vanisher, I must admit I now see tremendous benefits  ....and I suspect em agrees, being able to take the money with a shrug )

Thank you Treasur - You summed what others have been telling me so eloquently. I know logically that this is the case, but I still have the old monkey braining going on that I wasn't good enough and I feel so damned sorry for my daughter that as she gets older she will feel like she wasn't good enough as dad didn't stick around, but was happy to build a new family with someone else.

Again, I know logically that this man just wasn't mentally stable, but nevertheless it hurts. I don't ever want him back, but I just wonder if he knows how hurtful this has all been or if he even cares? It's crazy making and I'm surprised I haven't ended up being committed. People tell me I'm such a strong person. I just think I've been very stupid and naive to choose this man to be the father of my 2 very gorgeous kids. I wouldn't be without them. I just wish I'd have chosen better to give my kids the best start in life.

Sachat - Thank you for the quote. It is so true!

Em - Thank you too for your kind words and sorry for hijacking your thread. I should really have created my own. I just rarely post much on here these days, but needed to vent x

Careful what you wish for indeed!

[em5731]

No problem at all new day. I don’t want mine back either but I’m sure it still stings. Hang in there.

[em5731]

Journaling.

My daughter called today to tell me they are worried about her father (ex husband). He is very depressed I guess it’s not that easy to throw your family away and pretend it didn’t happen. I do feel for him in away. Mostly I pitty him . He is probably we’re I was 5 years ago. He was a very sensitive man. He did cry sometimes when we were married if he felt bad about things. I believe karma has arrived.

[KeepItTogether]

Karma yes. And certainly when the depression hits, it hits hard.

My H was always a crier too. And now is even more so. I mean, wouldn't you  think these people might want to actually get some psychological help?  How long must one feel so horrible before they realize that maybe it is something INSIDE, and not the horrible, evil LBS.

[Zion]

Em,

Was this from your estranged daughter? If so, that is great that she reached out to you for support and guidance.

[em5731]

kit

I dont know if he is a crier now. How could be. I don't know how is lives with him self. He is still blaming me for somethings.Not to my face. i just hear this from my daughter. I wanted him to suffer, but I do feel bad for him. He is probably were I was 5 years ago. But he does deserve every bad feeling that comes his way. I am buying the house off of him, maybe that has something to do with it.

[em5731]

Zion

I have 3 daughters, the one that isn't speaking to me, isn't he one that told me. but she did speak to me the other day when she seen me at the store. I did invite her over for dinner, she is supposed to text me about coming over, so we will see. 

[Milly]

Em, sorry your H is not well. Even though we don't have much sympathy for our MLCers since they caused the anguish they feel themselves, it's not pleasant when someone we cared for is not doing well. I find it interesting that your D felt worried enough to mention it to you. Perhaps he is reaching the end stage of Replay. Hopefully, he doesn't find a reason to jump right back into Replay to make himself feel better.

I'm so happy for you that your D who doesn't talk to you seems to be open to coming to you for dinner. I really hope she does, for both of you. My oldest D is not talking to me.

[em5731]

Hi Milly

He could be reaching the end of replay. Ow is still there, I guess he can't stand her, but he doesn't have the balls to get rid of her. I have been talking a little to my older daughters. I still don't trust them. I am doing fine without him. I think I am finally where I want to be. I just got a new job making more money. I am buying the house off of him. Just waiting to close.

[KeepItTogether]

Boy can I relate! My H too has an extremely volatile relationship with his ow. But like yours, doesn’t have the strength to leave her for good.
Congrats on the job and the house! Sometimes I feel like these guys really held us back bc we were busy taking care of them for so long.  You are killin it my friend. Yay you!

[Milly]

I think Kit said it precisely: 'Sometimes I feel like these guys really held us back bc we were busy taking care of them for so long.' I think this is spot on!

Em, congratulations on your new job and better money and buying the house off your H. You are doing so well, this is fantastic for all of us.

I understand what you mean about not trusting your two Ds yet. So hard for us to trust anyone any more, even our children, especially when they turned on us. I never thought I'd not have my oldest D in my life. In fact, to a certain extent I shut her out of my mind because it hurts too much to think about, which is probably what she is doing, too.

[em5731]

Hi Kit

Thank you, I had a rough day yesterday, I needed to hear that. At least i know it wasn't me. He knows I would never put up with that crap. I had no motivation to better my life before. I was to busy taking care of him and his issues that my life was put on hold and living in his shadow. Looking back, I stayed home with my youngest and helped him with the business. He acted like he was doing me the favor,  Even though we discussed it before we had her.  I guess the grass insnt greener !

[em5731]

Hi Milly

I also do not trust anyone, not even my kids. My ex worked all the time. Many times in life I felt like a single parent. But my daughters followed the money. And I still believe would betray me in a heart beat for the right price. Even my 12 year old I don't trust. it stinks as sometimes I think I sound parniod. I am sorry about your daughter, hopefully things improve in the future. I cant even remember when we were all together as a family. I think you have to block it out of your mind to survive

[em5731]

My daughter has been spending time with ex h. He told her about the ow. Interesting  that he said to her that she is only temporary. They have been together for at least 5 years. And he calls her temporary. I’m glad he does not feel the need to have my daughter around her. I think the more he is with my daughter. The less interest he has in ow. He even sent me money for Christmas.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am so happy that you got a better job and buying your house. It's nice to own your place. Your home, your rules....baby!!!

Interesting  that he said to her that she is only temporary.

He's probably telling the truth. Ran an ad in Craigslist- "I am a pathetic excuse of a man looking for a relationship with an equally pathetic woman. This is just temporary position. If interested please call......"

I also do not trust anyone, not even my kids.

I do hope you reach a place where not only can you trust someone, you can trust them with abundance. With that said, after the ultimate betrayal by a spouse who you blindly trusted, I can see how hard it to trust again. You have to protect that broken heart.

My oldest D is not talking to me.

Sorry to hear, but in reality, next to Mother/daughter relationships- MLC is a piece of cake.

((((Ready))))

[em5731]

Update 

Its been almost 6 years since Xhole left. He is back to monstering now. He told my daughter I was an angry person with issues.  So crazy as that describes him. I thought we were passed that. He has been really trying to get my daughter around OW. Just found out he is buying his parents house down the street from me .So he and ow will now live close. He is more of a hermit now. He sees my daughter once a week. My older kids don't really see him either. He does spend between $300-500 on the one day he takes her out. She now has no value of money.
I am happy with my new life, I have no complaints. I really have not started dating, I think I am ready for it, just a little nervous. My daughter is no longer mad at her dad, she thinks he is great now.

After 6 years, not much has changed. Its is hard to believe I was standing and waiting for him. I have grown as that is not an option. When I think about how much crap he has done to me, I don't even like to see his face, never mind standing, I did read somewhere on this website that I would feel indifferent at some point. I am glad my heart does not belong to him anymore

[rosetintedglasses]

Em it's lovely to hear your update and that you are happy with no complaints.  Sorry your XH is monstering, you do wonder why the OW would want to be involved with that.

Good your daughter thinks her Dad is great now, and also not great that she thinks that with him acting like this.

Glad you are ready to date, we deserve some emotionally mature attention.

Sending love
Rose 🌹

[em5731]

Hi Rose

Yes we do deserve a better life and a better guy. I am looking forward to dating, but I am nervous about what out there. but I am also very picky this time. I have realized if I don't find anyone I am ok on my own.

[em5731]

I got glimpse of exh life. My kids started talking about him. They say he really is loser. They don’t really ever speak of him to me. From what they say. He posts pictures all over fb about how happy he is with ow. But he treats her horribly. He cheats on her. And let’s her know he is keeping his options open. He talks down to her in front of people. Tells people she is temporary. But still goes through the motions of building a life with her. Just in case he doesn’t find anyone better. He also says people his own age are just to old for him.  They have been together for 6 years. So for any of you newbies that think you might be missing something. Your not. She must be pretty damaged to build a life with someone that treats her so bad. Not that I feel bad for her as she did start a relationship with a Married guy. This is not the guy I knew. He tells people he is in a funk and doesn’t know how to get out of it. They might just deserve each other. As I have no interest in someone like that.

[UrsaMajor]

An affair is NOT looking for someone better than the LBS, it is looking for someone worse than the MLC'er

Yours is a Poster Child for it...

[Imgood]

Just read your thread Em. Hope you are doing well! Any update?

[em5731]

Hi imgood

I am doing well. Ex H used to live in another state. He now lives about 5 miles away with ow. I really thought I would have a hard time with them living so close. But I have managed to not bump in to them anywhere which is nice. He has recently started to try to convince my daughter 14  to spend time with ow. This was my worst nightmare. But now that it has happened I actually feel like it’s not the big of a deal. Ex has been reaching out more by email. He seems to event issues so we can discuss it. I’m right to the point and he no longer try’s to argue. Which is shocking to me as everything was a battle. I sent an email last week regarding my daughter giving her way to much freedom. I was ready for a battle. But instead he said you are right. I’m sorry and it won’t happen again. That is progress. My older daughter tells me that he isn’t nice to ow. They work different shifts and don’t see each other that much. She volunteered to work this Christmas this just past. Sometimes he seems like the guy I know. Then it’s back to crazy ville. I just bought a vacation home a few states away and we spend time there. So I’m not home like I used to be. Maybe that has affected him a little. As I’m no longer sitting at home licking my wounds. Hopefully he becomes a better dad then he has been in the last 6.5 years.

[Imgood]

Sounds like you’re doing great Em! A vacation home…how fun! My dream is a second home on the beach. . You mentioned in your thread….maybe starting to date. How’s that going?

[em5731]

I am doing great. Some days I have issues but I don’t let it get me down. I really haven’t dated. I was with my ex from the age of 14 to 46. I am enjoying my Life. At some point I will date. I read somewhere about getting to know your self before dating. I am glad I did that. I have more self confidence than I ever had. I know what I want and what I will never put up with again. He seems like a teenager. He has been trying to make conversations about things. I answer is questions. But I never reach out first. And the first sign of crazy, I stop the conversation.  3 weeks in a row now he paid the child support on time. That hasn’t happened much in 7 years.  I went on a dating website and talked to a few men on the phone and thought yikes I don’t know if I want to do that again. I am not sure I want to be a wife again. It’s nice to not cook and clean for a slob anymore. Lol.

[Dragonfly33]

It’s my third year this year since BD. A couple of times I also attempted going on a dating site and I had the same feeling as you have. I am not sure if I can do the dating process again. For me, it’s all superficial. But maybe when you’re truly ready, everything will just fall into place.

[em5731]

I think I am ready. Just not interested yet. I am just enjoying my life right now. I do want to spend my life with someone, at some point

[em5731]

I really just wish he would disappear. My first weekend at my summer home. Ex and ow rent a hotel down the street so he doesn’t miss a weekend with my daughter. He misses visits all the time.  He really is a piece of crap. My summer home is 2 hours away from where he lives. I really didn’t think I could dislike him anymore than I did. And then when I say something to my daughter. She says well you threw him out. And began to argue with me about what happened when he left. With him telling her what to say. As she doesn’t know the details of our divorce. I would never tell her he said he didn’t want to be a father. 

[in it]

Yes , your first sentence resonates

Ohh boy, when they (the kids) don't know the truth with how things ended I would think there's some confusion there.

Wouldn't it be enough to at least let her know, he was lying and cheating on you and you couldn't trust him so yes you threw him out? How old is she?
Do you think him saying he was not wanting to be a father was true?

[MadLuv]

I’m sorry he couldn’t allow you to have your time away. As far as your daughter that’s so hard. I struggle with my adult daughter not knowing all the bad and  so I get a lot of the back talk, but there are just some things that they dont need to know and I will take the bullet for it. I feel sooner or later the truth will reveal itself or they will at least see that the version of what they know is one sided. Keep being the bigger person. I do think there is no harm in stating the last thing you ever wanted to do was end your marriage. If it was not your choice the. That is all you need to say. This would not have been my choice.

[em5731]

Hi Init

My daughter is 14. she might not know everything he has done, but she knows enough to know that I don't want to be around him. When he left he told me he has been a father for most of his life and he no longer had any interest in it. I would never tell her that. Plus he said she was obese, and she looked horrible. She was 7 at the time. I would never want her to know that. She was a chubby 7year old. No that she has thined out and has skinny friends, he know likes to hang around with her. Creepy

[em5731]

Hi Madluv

My adult children see right through his crap. He always tells her I through him out. Which is true. That  was after he told me he was here due to obligation only.
I dont know if he is messing with me or is just to stupid to realize, there are many breaches in my area. He could have chosen a different place to stay. This crap is getting old.

[sachat3]

Hi! Glad to have caught up on your thread. It’s been a hot minute since I logged into the forum.

Fwiw I think your daughter will know more than you realise. My oldest is 10 and she puts things together. She asks things like “is the reason you and dad aren’t together because of Ow”. Even tho by the standards they know it was 2 years from him leaving to ow coming along (not true but for them it was). Kids are much smarter than we give them credit for.

[sachat3]

Just commenting again as I’ve lost all my threads. Silly error and managed to find this one ha

[Imgood]

Hi Em - How are things going? Any update?