[OceanLady]

Hello Stayed,  This is very good info about denial.  I have found that what we think of as denial is really/may be manipulative excuses from an aggressive personality type (Monster?, the Narcisist?), at least I realized (not spelled "realised") that my H is this type of person.  I found the book "In Sheep's Clothing" by George Simon Jr. PhD extremely informative about manipulative people, to explain how my life has been with H for up to 19.5 years--my whole life with H.  I learned so much and how to stop the manipulation by H  that I think I was in denial of how MY life was.  I always knew that something was wrong but I didn't know what--I do now--on top of the MLC business.  It has been an eye opening read for me and it is somewhat depressing to finally have these questions answered.  Whenever you have an exchange with this type of personality, you come away from it feeling bewildered and frustrated--and they do it on purpose.  When you are feeling bewildered after a conversation, you have been manipulated.

I never understood why my H would not take responsibility for breaking a favorite chinese dish of mine 19 years ago that he accidentaly broke while washing the dishes.  He said it was not his fault.  Was he in denial or minimizing his responsibility with manipulation??  I think the later is true.  I said: How can it be my resp. when my hands we not even near the dish??  He went with me to try and replace the dish but he would not pay the $15 to do so.  I could never understand that behavior.  I do now.  He could not and probably never will be able to admit to any type of human mistake that he made so how can he ever show remorse for what he has done with the OW.  Maybe he is in denial that he is simply human but I think he has a serious personality disorder as do many others here in MLC.  Who knows??  Monster has been very very bad for 2 years but does not fully explain everything that he has done thru the divorce procedings and other various hic-cups that have turned into huge and expensive problems for me.  My Monster eats GIANT sized Monster meals--as one other thread headlines.

Just my opinions here on denials.  Hope I didn't hijack your thread too badly.

[stayed]

Thanks Winnifred34.  No hijack in my opinion.  Very interesting and pertanent to the topic. I really must read that book.  My h has "great" difficulty admitting he made a mistake too, although, he is much better then he was. 

hugs Stayed

[toughtimes]

Wow, findingjojo, your H sounds like mine just from the sentence you wrote! Independent but in denial about his responsibility to sort himself out financially, telling me how lucky I am he is paying me more than he legally needs to whilst spending money on holidays, presents for kids every week and presents/hotels, meals out, entertaining his new girlfriend!
winnifred34 that book sounds good, I think I will read it too.

TT

[Niek]

I wonder how we have to deal with someone who is in denial. This is the most difficult part for me at the moment. H comes home is talking about our daughter who has ADD and can be sometimes very very angry, I suspect she has Borderline as well but she was never diagnosed. Yesterday he said that he was amazed that there can be so much anger in such a little girl. OMG, he has been Monster Monster Monster for about more than a year. How do I react?? I don't but I would have loved to say something about the Monster periods. This conversation went on and him saying constantly things about other people which in fact could be just about him. It looks like he has forgotten about all the hurtful things he did to us. I became more and more silent cause didn't know what to say anymore.
Afterwards he asked me what was the matter with me and I told him he was hurting me. Later one he texted me: I never had the intention of hurting you, on the contrary. If I did I am sorry for that. Said the man who just told me 3 weeks ago he didn't want anymore a life with me and the girls. No, that is a great compliment.

Does this state of denial ever goes way? It is crazy making talking to someone who cannot see what he has done. It looks like he is perfectly fine with the situation as it is at the moment. Although he doesn't look very happy, I don't see much of the depression anymore. Don't think like that you will ever go rock bottom.

[underpressure]

Niek, I know just what you mean. H wanted me to come by for a small get together among old friends visiting from out of town. One is divorced and has a child. Another has just left his wife, and has a girlfriend 20 years younger than him. H is sitting there in his man-cave with them where he brought OW for 2 months and says "I guess I am the only one in the room who is not having a Midlife Crisis".  I said very calmly "No, you are the most delusional person in the room" and got a few laughs.

Of course I wasn't trying to be funny. But my timing was very good.

Earlier when I told him I was uncertain about coming over and it was causing me anxiety, especially since the last time I went over there for a "party" (family get together) he spent the entire time texting his OW. I said that i was afraid he would hurt me like he did then. He said "You only hurt yourself".

is that true? I hurt myself when he had an affair? Talk about crazy-making!

[OceanLady]

Stayed, toughtimes, Niek, Underpressure,

I was Winnifred34 but now I am OceanLady.  I changed my name a few days ago and I also joined the alt the same day.

Green-Eyed Lady, Ocean Lady 
Soothing every raging wave that comes  (Song by Sugarloaf)

[underpressure]

I joined too OceanLady, see you for chat!

[FindingJules]

Does this state of denial ever goes way? It is crazy making talking to someone who cannot see what he has done. It looks like he is perfectly fine with the situation as it is at the moment. Although he doesn't look very happy, I don't see much of the depression anymore. Don't think like that you will ever go rock bottom.

OMG...I have to find more of your posts....I almost just quoted your whole post.  This is EXACTLY where I am with my H!  My H  has moved out...which I have often thought makes this maybe a little more bearable because I would EXPLODE like a staked vampire if I had to 24/7 put up with his denial and other BS.  But yes, our son who has Asperger's has also had Monster moments (just yesterday...) and while S13 can sort through when HE'S been a Monster and has remorse for his actions....39 year old H has his head up his arse!!!  MIND BOGGLING!!!  And then I'm the one that feels crazy!

Oh, I am so happy (well, for lack of a better word) to find another in my position...I'm going to "stalk" you now to find out how you are keeping your cool...I know I want to but I lose it from time to time.  Thank you for posting.

[HurtSoul]

Why insist on control...then mAnage to muck it up

[Duthla]

 I said that i was afraid he would hurt me like he did then. He said "You only hurt yourself".

When I get angry at my H for bringing OW to the house when he picks up/drops off our S, H says "Well, you go looking for it!" Meaning that because I happen to see OW in the car, it is somehow MY problem that I'm upset about it! 
Freaking "script" again huh?