[Patience]

Interesting bit of reading Mermaid.  Thanks for sharing.  I still don't know everything that went on in H's childhood, but I know enough to know that he is a resilient child.  One simply has to look at the messed up lives of his siblings to understand that.  It doesn't help that he really didn't have any other adults around to step in as he was growing up.  I don't know where it was, but I recently came across an article about the resilient child.  The minute I read it, I was stunned.  It described H so well.  The irony of it all is that one of the things I was always most proud of him about was his resiliency.  That he was successful despite a messed up childhood. 

[Trustandlove]

This is a very interesting article, and makes a lot of sense.

When I first read it I thought - - well, this doesn't describe my H at all.  It really must go to show that there are different types of mlc-ers, and different reasons for the crisis to start. 

He grew up in a stable family, if they had a fault it was not discussing things.  I suppose he had to be "resilient" in that he knew he would have to provide for himself, as his family wasn't in a position to support him financially through university and beyond, but he didn't have to parent his parents or sister.  He was the younger one, his mother's favourite. 

But digging deeper, there are things that resonate -- particularly this bit:  It would be interesting to speculate on why these men were able to maintain an "invulnerable" posture for so long. They may have had talents which were unusual on which they learned to capitalize. They all seemed to have an unusual level of energy, a factor which may have given them an advantage, since those who are constitutionally active are more likely to have worldly success. In fact, since the histories we have described are not widely variant from what is seen in more disabled patients attending psychiatric clinics, our cohort must have either had some inborn advantage, benefited from a greater security of attachment to their primary objects, or have found compensatory attachments outside their nuclear families.

H does (or certainly did) have a huge amount of energy, and what could be considered an unusual talent, on which he has capitalised.  And somewhere along the line he didn't grow up, so he must never have resolved the attachment to mother or father thing.   His father dying was the first "Pop" of the popcorn....

H always said that he felt completely loved growing up, although the family wasn't at all well off -- as a matter of fact I know things were very hard for them -- he remembers nightly prayers including "for daddy not to lose his job".   I do know that he really fears being in material dire straights himself, and always wanted to make a lot of money for that reason.  He said outright that he really didn't want to be poor when he was old. 

It's all in there somewhere, not so clear in my H's case as perhaps in others, as he definitely didn't have to be a parent to his parents; it's only now that he has to face his mother no longer being herself. 

What I do know about H is that he fears getting old, and that he fears rejection.  But have no idea if any of these theories would apply. 

But if anything, it's me who was the 'resilient child' -- I was the one who had to assume a parental role too early, was a high achiever academically, had the alcoholic father, and so on and so on and so on. 

so could the idea of not wanting to be poor make him the "resilient child"?  His parents always told him that he was naturally lucky; a fortune teller had apparently also told him that he would always be "OK" in that regard.   

Does he think it's all luck, and not his hard work?  Possible....

But that's getting off the subject. 

[Buggy31]

This really resonated with me
I've learned from reading Real's book that abuse can be passive and active.....I believe my H suffered both....each one is damaging...in fact passive is a bit more disturbing because you can''t pinpoint it...no visible scars.....
My H mother is a severly depressed woman .....who wears a mask...in fact the whole family exists in a state of denial of mental health issues....I believe my H was her emotional H because his father was a coach and while never left them persay abandoned them passively.....this is a HUGE issue for my H...and one I'm not sure he'll ever recognize because of the guilt involved with facing it...

Anyway after reading this article a lot of things make sense to me and confirm things that I feel I have been shown about him.  Especially the workaholism and achievment....these things worked for my H for awhile and when they stopped working there was a sense of panic......

Thanks for posting M .  I learned a lot.

[Mermaid]

It's interesting that so many people can see their H in this.

It doesn't apply to everyone, of course. There are many reasons for MLC and many types of trauma that the MLCer could have failed to deal with when they are growing up.

[Bewildered]

Mermaid

just read finally ...... and my H has  a selfish M who he told me when expecting our 2nd child when I asked had he told  his parents -- not yet I'm sure they will say they are pleased but my M wont be too interested as she never wanted me and having me ruined her career, He and his D (died in 1994)  never got on just polite to each other and when he died his M came to stay over the Xmas (he died in the Sept before Xmas 1994) - on Christmas eve she came down the stairs (been with us 1 day - H had gone 4 hours travel to collect her) with bags packed and said to me I want to go home now and My H was to drive her as she needed towrite thank you letters to the people who had sent her flowers and sympathy cards approx - 20 people. I said write them here its Xmas eve and I brought your address book with us ? She said she wanted to use her personal stationery well I had brought that too and then she said she needed her special pen - well she got me here - forgot that one! Anyway i pointed out if H took her he would not be home for Xmas morning and Guess what she said, he said he would stay with me till I felt stronger ............ and I need him you don't for one year.
I pointed out the children needed him and she could wait till after Xmas and he could spend the time then taking her home and staying with her - we had agreed this remember and we had given her her own bedroom, bathroom and sitting room so she had privacy etc
I then went and spoke to H he agreed with me but now when I reflect back he wanted me to speak to his M but as i I was busy he had too and she was NOT happy then guess what on boxing day (after not joining in with Xmas day) the bags at the back door etc started again  - I gave in and we had a House full BUT H said No this time he'd take her tomorrow. He did and two days later rand to say he couldn't take it anymore and would I come with childrend and rescue him and I said No he needed to help her through this or come home as the children unfortunately had plans .. he was home by 10pm and he said his M was fine??

I rang her every week she always said the same I'm fine is H there when I said No I was ringing to see if I could do anything for her or just to chat she said I'm fine can you get H to call when hes home.
She never came to our home again. I had to force H to call her regularly as I felt sorry for her and so if I have guilt its not letting him decide how best to deal with her but I didn't know better...............
She has never called me once over his leaving
i went to visit and she said in the middle of her usual I'm fine talk I think H is having a mlc? you will just have to wait it out?

B XX

[Mermaid]

It sounds like your H has major R probs with his mum. This will be significant in his sense of self and R in the role he expected to play in the M. It doesn't make much difference to what we do, but I think it helps to realise what the roots of their MLC are.

I think the significant thing of the article is that these men have managed to compensate for so long by performing, and then wake up to find something missing. They have to find this out for themselves, but as RCR says, it's important to be a soft place to land.

[Bewildered]

Mermaid


see that as the way he will get through this but I thik beside the sof place to land they need to really make amends to us or I know that in the long term I wont be able to love him as I should if he cant show me he is sorry .. he has started to do this in tiny actions but still very important to me ..
I too need a soft place to land!!

A friend sent me this .....


An identity crisis is a time in life when an individual begins to seriously quest for answers about the nature of their being and the search for an identity. 20th century developmental psychologist Erik Erikson developed this term, which is used frequently. He used it mostly to apply to the period of transition in the teenage years when kids begin to define what they will do as adults, and what their values are. Now thought it has been  agreed in physiology that an ‘identity crisis’  is most likely to occur at any time of life, especially in periods of great transition between the ages of 40-55 (averaged out)  Or 65+(Retirement sets the one off).

An identity crisis is a time of intensive analysis and exploration of different ways of looking at oneself.  Think identity in "a subjective sense as well as an observable quality of personal sameness and continuity, paired with some belief in the sameness and continuity of some shared world image.
In Erik Erikson's stages of psychosocial development;
One of the main elements of Erikson’s psychosocial stage theory is the development of ego identity. (Ego identity is the conscious sense of self that we develop through social interaction.) According to Erikson, our ego identity is constantly changing due to new experience and information we acquire in our daily interactions with others. In addition to ego identity, Erikson also believed that a sense of competence also motivates behaviours and actions. Each stage in Erikson’s theory is concerned with becoming competent in an area of life. If the stage is handled well, the person will feel a sense of mastery, which he sometimes referred to as ego strength or ego quality, and if the stage is managed poorly, the person will emerge with a sense of inadequacy. Which can be buried until later in life -

In each stage, Erikson believed people experience a conflict (a turning point during which the individual's struggles to attain some psychological quality. Sometimes referred to as a psychosocial crisis, this can be a time of both vulnerability and strength, as the individual works toward success or failure. ). In Erikson’s view, these conflicts are cantered on either developing a psychological quality or failing to develop that quality. During these times, the potential for personal growth is high, but so is the potential for failure.
Psychosocial Stage 1 - Trust vs. Mistrust
•   Because an infant is utterly dependent, the development of trust is based on the dependability and quality of the child’s caregivers.
•   If a child successfully develops trust, he or she will feel safe and secure in the world. ailure to develop trust will result in fear and a belief that the world is inconsistent and unpredictable.
Psychosocial Stage 2 - Autonomy vs. Shame and Doubt
•   The second stage - is focused on children developing a greater sense of personal control. Children who successfully complete this stage feel secure and confident, while those who do not are left with a sense of inadequacy and self-doubt.
•   
 The emergence of an identity crisis is when people struggle between feelings of identity versus role confusion -  the balance between identity and confusion lies in making a commitment to an identity.
Identity Statuses
•   Identity achievement occurs when an individual has gone through an exploration of different identities and made a commitment to one.
•   Moratorium is the status of a person who is actively involved in exploring different identities, but has not made a commitment.
•   Foreclosure status is when a person has made a commitment without attempting identity exploration.
•   Identity diffusion occurs when there is neither an identity crisis nor commitment.
Researchers have found that those who have made a strong commitment to an identity tend to be happier and healthier than those who have not. Those with a status of identity diffusion tend to feel out of place in the world and don't pursue a sense of identity. And in mid life the crisis can then come to the forefront and mix the person up.
In today's rapidly changing world, identity crises are more common today than in Erikson's day. Exploring different aspects of yourself in the different areas of life, including your role at work, within the family, and in romantic relationships, can help strengthen your personal identity.




B xx

[Mermaid]

Thanks for posting Erikson's stage theory. I've also found it interesting, as is the Jungian stage theory, and helps us to conceptualise what is going on with them. It makes it less personal, as it's not about us, but them. Many psychologists see development as continuous rather than by rigid stages, although earlier development impacts on later development. This means that our MLCers are not so much rediscovering their inner child, but finding that some of the narratives that they used to explain their life don't work any more.

But in the end, we still have to work out what we want, and what attitude to take.

Bewildered, I understand your hurt, your H has put your through a lot, and I understand that you don't just want him to move back home as if nothing has happened. I think we sometimes need to say this. Some people (notably men) are amazingly autistic-like when it comes to understanding other people's feelings. Many women (not all) and some men are adept at people-reading, and assume that their needs are also obvious. But their partner may just not get it.

[Mermaid]

Male/ female brains:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/news/page/0,12983,937443,00.html

Baron-Cohen's theory is that the female brain is predominantly hard-wired for empathy, and that the male brain is predominantly hard-wired for understanding and building systems. He calls it the empathising-systemising (E-S) theory.

Empathising is the drive to identify another person's emotions and thoughts, and to respond to these with an appropriate emotion. The empathiser intuitively figures out how people are feeling, and how to treat people with care and sensitivity.

Systemising is the drive to analyse and explore a system, to extract underlying rules that govern the behaviour of a system; and the drive to construct systems.

Here's another nugget:

 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.npenn.org%2F55777031716343%2Flib%2F55777031716343%2FNew_sex_scorecard.pdf&ei=bKthT-LRBYTr0QHD4LGLCA&usg=AFQjCNGZOZryQAH3ATf5eQUpOrCWF0k0Qw

Women have another heady advantage—faster blood flow to the brain, which offsets the cognitive effects of aging. Men lose more brain tissue with age, especially in the left frontal cortex, the part of the brain that thinks about consequences and provides self-control. You can see the tissue loss by age 45, and that may explainwhy midlife crisis is harder on men. Men have the same impulses but they lose the ability to consider long-term consequences.

[Bewildered]

mermaid
thanks but the links didn't work can you send to my personal email as sound interesting !!

the more i read the more it is upsetting for them as i really don't think they even know why they feel this way .. but when they do they need recognise they hurt they have caused as mentioned before as what i have read says that the saying of sorry etc is the final part of their learning?

xx