[Treasur]

Please don't feel bad, Courage.
From over here in the cheap seats, you didn't do anything so terrible fwiw.

And, again fwiw, I didn't read into your recent exchange something as black and white as you may feel it was. (Bc your h is right about not everything being black or white; however the grey is messy and uncomfortable sometimes 😂)

He doesn't ask bc he thinks he knows and he probably doesn't want to hear it spelled out. His words about his assumptions being unfair, about it (him) being controlling and manipulative.....he thinks he knows. Or is beginning to know maybe.

You responded bc it is normal as we heal to try to build our own narrative, to find our own explanations, to try to find or make some kind of closure. It's an odd feeling to do that in isolation without the other 'half' of the story....harder perhaps....and so we instinctively try to reach out to the other.

Please be kind to yourself dear Courage. There may be bits of 2.0 improvements you want to make in your own character but at this stage it is also easy to confuse the 'me' story with the 'we' story.  It will get easier.....

[OffRoad]

OR,

I feel like me choosing to just focus on myself and change the subject instead of acknowledging “yes, you were
Controlling and manipulative....and this is how it felt.” Was me mitigating thats statement he made.

Thank you for explaining. The way I think is that a conversation like that would help ME, and bringing it back around to me does not do that. As I read what he said, in my interpretation if you had changed the subject, THAT would be mitigating it, almost giving him a free pass when he admitted he was horrible about responding. Imo, you get to have feelings and have every right to acknowledge that he was horrible about getting back to you and to say how you felt.

....I can validate my own thoughts beliefs and feelings.....so why bother even share those with him....he didn’t ask.

I think that’s a thing I struggle with.....I want someone to show a level of interest in getting to know and understand me. To do that....I have to break that habit of telling people all about me without ascertaining wether or not they desire that first.

It's hard not to share things with the person you always used to share things with. IMO, it just comes naturally.

if I understand, you want someone to show a level of interest in you before you tell them about yourself.  That maybe you think you give too much information before you should?  Is that correct? What is that level of interest? What would they need to ask to make you feel like they are interested?

And one curiosity question, if you don't mind helping me out. What does sharing how you feel have to do with being able to validate your own thoughts and beliefs to you? These two don't equate for me, I don't share just for validation, but sometimes to let someone know what page I am or was on.

[Couragedearheart]

OR,

What’s the level of interest.....for me....it’s pretty low.....all they have to do is ask. I’m not super guarded....but I’ve always been a bit of an oversharer. I learned that I like the way I feel more when I wait for someone to ask what I think or my perspective rather than just give it.

So if I’m able to validate myself why do I need someone else’s approval or agreement? I don’t....so then have I just not validated that enough that now I’m looking for Stbx’s sign off on my own opinion?
And if I’m just letting him know what page I’m on....why? What am I expecting to happen or change? I only seek that from people I’m trying to have a relationship with....and I’m not trying to have a relationship with him.

I can’t change him but I can change me....and if I’m slipping back into a dynamic with him just because it’s familiar to me that will eventually hurt me....better to catch it and correct it now then let it go further.

I probably just need to go back to the rule of three and be a little more compassionate with myself....changing old patterns isn’t easy.

Courage

[OffRoad]

I think I understand. You would prefer someone ask what you think or feel before you share, he didn't ask, but you shared anyway, and you no longer want to share your thoughts and feelings with him if he doesn't specifically ask because you think it not a good dynamic for you. Thank you for explaining. That would never have occurred to me, to only tell people what I think or feel if they specifically ask me. People always tell me what they think and feel without my asking. But then, they aren't an mlc spouse  either. 

[Couragedearheart]

So it’s been a worldwind month. Me and s16 have been traveling, we went and saw my sister and went out boating with her friends. S16 has been pingponging between 3 houses. Then for my birthday the girls at work got me flowers, exh and s16 decorated the house but the best thing was one of my best friends from nursing school got me cupcakes and took me to the beach for a vacation, s16 canceled all his plans so that he could go.....he adores her.

The funniest thing was she asked s16 what were the kids labeling all the “bases” nowadays.....he was clearly confused.....so she asked him what he thought they would be.........
1st base: first date
2nd base: sex
3rd base: marriage
4th base: death
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

The kids move so fast nowadays......

He couldn’t understand why I laughed so hard I fell off the bed. Bless him.

I got a raise....last night I went out for Italian with the girls, and today me and a girlfriend from work are headed to the spring festival!

Also I got a new counselor.....a man.....which was scary......my heart was pounding out of my chest before our first session. Yeah fun new addition to the party that I have discovered is now I am afraid of men I don’t already know. So that’s nice.

But he is different that the female counselors I’ve had, I mentioned a conversation with xh and his first response “ why are we still talking to him.....we are done with him” just so simply......and yet it has stuck with me.
Why talk to xh? Why think about xh? Why deal with him at all? Why hand him any power? Why not just be done with him? What good thing is he bringing to my life? He doesn’t bring any positive emotions? He isn’t caring, or nurturing, or thoughtful, or helpful? Why not just be done with him......like throwing away a napkin.

Of course xh is still looking for an in. So when s16 said he isn’t going anywhere with anyone for the month of may so don’t ask him.....xh text to say he was going to start coming by on sundays to spend time with him.

Sooooooo instead of Tuesday’s when your off and I’m at work.....you want me and him to be available every Sunday for you......no. I don’t want or need to see him. I am not willing to sit home every Sunday. It is not an option.

So I’m off to take out the trash and head to the festival....that’s all the tea.

❤️ Courage ❤️

[Seahorse]

Courage -
Following along.
I find it interesting that H has changed plans to accommodate his ability to see you as well as S16.
That doesn't necessarily mean that you need to be there when he comes.  S16 would completely understand that.
Your birthday celebration(s) sound lovely, and so glad that you and S16 were able to go with y our friend to the beach.
Your son's "bases" made me hysterical as well.  Wow!

Your new therapists comments about "why are we still talking about him" made me think about my own situation and how I also need to stop putting time into the past memories and questions about my former H's crisis.  Nothing good can come out of that, yet I find myself doing it anyway - quite often. 
Part of me does wonder, however, if your new therapist is allowing you to appropriately heal if you want to say/think about or talk about your H, and how that could feel a little like being shut out?  I suppose you're the only one able to tell that, but I think I might feel that way if it were me.  Of course, it all depends on how it was said as well.

I hope you're enjoying the festival today.

Sea

[Couragedearheart]

Sea!!!

I think the therapist was talking about engaging in conversations with him.....vs me talking about my feelings and stuff attached to him.

We got rained out of the festival today. But that’s okay...we drove to a nearby city and went shopping and then took ourselves out to lunch at one of our favorite restaurants.....and talked the entire time. So it was a lovely day.

I did have the conversation with H today about the visits. I told him I had kept myself available to him for 15 years and he did not value that, I now no longer have the obligation of a husband, so the offer to monopolize my time or my weekends was no longer available to him. I told him we would let him know when s16 was available.

I may have also said (I definitely did) “ I made myself available to your every beck’s and call for 15 years and what do I have to show for it? What did it get me.......cheated on, lied to, and left without a goodbye or anything.  So know I choose who I allow access to me and my time, and I base that on their actions not their words”

He apologized “if that was what his actions had shown me”

To which I replied.....”your actions are who you are. Your words are who you want to be.....but you are whatever you continually do, even if you don’t like it, that’s who you are”

He sails he’s greatful for whatever time he can get, and thanked me.

So that’s at least handled and done.

But I agree with your assessment, he changed the days so that I would be there.

I’m scared and nervous with the new therapist and I honestly think it pertains to my father, and the fact that all my relationships with men have been traumatic. I can easily open up and be vunerable and trusting with my girlfriends......but as a general rule I avoid men for the most part. But I’ll try this new thing and see if it helps get me out of my funk. Or maybe gain a new perspective.

Courage

[Seahorse]

Courage - Glad that you had fun despite the rained out festival.
AND, glad the talk with H is done.

You're amazingly strong.
Proud of you for trying this new therapist, even though you wouldn't normally choose a man.  See how it goes.  It's not a life-long decision you need to make. 

Sending hugs.
Sea

[Couragedearheart]

Things I’ve learned:

Action is who you are, words are how you want to be perceived.

You are whatever you continually do.

You cannot expect something they haven’t already shown they are capable of from another person.

The only thing anyone is obligated to do is what the law will enforce, other than that....it’s all a choice....and there are no obligation police.

A persons inability to see your worth is a statement about their ability to see, not a statement about your worth.

How you treat yourself/ talk to yourself and how you allow others to treat/ talk to you will determine your perception of yourself.

Your partner and the people around you are going to trigger your wounds, but they are your wounds, they are being revealed to you so you can heal them.

Your feelings are determined by the story(meaning) you tell yourself about a person/ situation/ or thing, so make sure the story you are telling yourself is an empowering one.

You have to live with your own emotions, so make sure that your choices are going to lead you towards the emotions you prefer to feel.

Every person on earth is on a journey of self discovery, they learn at their own pace, it is never your job or responsibility to help them or teach them unless they ask.

You teach people through your actions how to treat you, 70% of communication is nonverbal.

You were not created requiring another person to make you whole, you have everything you need inside you.

Triggers are showing you your belief system, get to the bottom of the shame messages your triggers are indicating and start actively working on undoing those messages.

If a person isn’t getting to know you by asking you deep vulnerable questions, then their perception of you doesn’t matter because it’s just a story they made up in their own head of who you are.

Emotions are just bodily sensations that that we labeled that give you information from your subconscious mind.

At any minute our brain is processing 11,000 bits of information, the human capacity for focus is 60 bits, so listen to your intuition.

You are the author of your own life and story, don’t hand the reins over to another person.

Action proceeds feelings, don’t wait until you feel a certain way to take action, decide how you want to feel and then take the actions that will get you there.

Surround yourself with people who assume the best about your intentions. People who treat you like you are worthy lovable and awesome.

You cannot change other people, or other people’s emotions.

That’s all I can think of right now, there are lots more and feel free to add your own if you want.

Love
❤️ Courage❤️

[marvin4242]

CH: Thank you so much for sharing that. The amount of wisdom in that one post is staggering. It’s a manual for a peaceful amd rich life. I will save and read it every morning to remind myself.