[Shockandawe]

And here we go again!
Anjae this is Shock my sister will not comment further on anything you post as I have already stated.
Manipulative people recognise vulnerability and slowly but surely convince you that your spouse is undeserving whilst they would never be that way. The words puppet master may be offensive but manipulation is what it is.
Your opinion is yours and hers is hers but I am not my sister and from your quotations from my sisters reply to Flabbergasted to my mind anyway, you come across as an angry and somewhat bitter person.
And that is my opinion and I am also entitled to that.
Shock and awe

[Shockandawe]

whatever Anjae

Shock and awe

[terrified_in_TN]

From an independent observer's perspective (as I have never posted in S&A's thread before):

Anjae may be abrasive at times, seemingly emotionless, and obviously not well received in a great deal of threads she posts in [sorry Anjae, but its true], but in this particular case, I think she has a valid point.  Maybe it wasn't the intent, but the reply in question by Shock's sis does come off more than a little bit that she was a helpless victim in the situation, and therefore not her fault.

-T

[Anjae]

This is a thread on HS, and not even a personal story thread. Not everyone has to agree with your sister, Shock.

I had a MLC. I am fully aware how it is. Your sister is telling LBS what they want to hear. Every time someones asks her something that does not toe the party line, she does not answer or you come by and tell people off.

She is incapable of saying, I did it. It is on me. Putting blame on OM and the LBS is not the behaviour of a fully recoved, or even of a recoved MLCer. I am sorry you, and many, think it is. It isn't.

Given that neither you nor many here had a MLC and I had, I am fairly sure I know a bit more about the matter than you or those of you who did not had a MLC.

Maybe you and your sister should think about it rather than react, not reply or answer this

whatever Anjae

Maybe you both should think why is the blame still directed to OM and LBS.

As far as I am aware, your sister is a grown up. Why do you feel the need to always come around and defend her? Can she not reply on her own like the rest of us?

Maybe that is something else for you to think about.

Getting up in arms because someone does not nod their head to all your sister says makes no sense, Shock. Becoming totally upset, because like with the rest of us she is challanged, makes no sense.

It seems to me you and your sister fear people who don't buy all your sister says. If so, why?

No need to apologize, Terrified.

[Shockandawe]

Anjae
She has taken responsibility for what she did in ways you are not aware of and cannot possibly know.
The question put was why couldn’t the lbs be the fantasy person and she replied to that question in her own style.
She had her MLC and so did our father and I can tell you our father’s ow was extremely manipulative and also worked on our father for a year or more. Of course she told him what her fog fuelled brain was telling her but it was what she fully believed at the time and the om manipulated a vulnerable person into believing he was her saviour from a weak and needy man. The question was about then not now and again she answered with the advantage of hindsight.
If you cannot see that I don’t know what else she can possibly say.

[Standing Strong]

Manipulative people recognise vulnerability and slowly but surely convince you that your spouse is undeserving whilst they would never be that way. The words puppet master may be offensive but manipulation is what it is.

Well said.
I've actually heard creep guys who actively prey on women who are "crazy".... now I know "crazy" is MLC.
Is that a puppet master? I think so.

I know what you're saying Anjae about them wanting what they want at the time. That's true. That also has to be very difficult to look at after the fact. I think Shocks has expressed this several times. Is that blame on self? I think so. Is there deflection that removes responsibility? Sure. People do this for all kinds of things, it's not unique to MLC. So they should we get so hung up on that? Because they hurt us? I'm not sure that taking complete responsibility is a sign they are out or not..... it depend on the person. There are people on death row who deny killing other people, they can't look at it. Why would some MLC'er be different (and I'm not saying Shocks is one of them)? BE one way, the break happens in the head, someday goes back to normal and not be able to face that. I think it's understandable. Talk about a total betrayal of self. I know people talk about loving the person and hating the actions....... isn't that true with MLC? When they are done if they can't deal with themselves (maybe forever) do we forgive them and move on? Do we have to pin them to a board, a board they themselves will pin themselves to for the rest of their life?

Compassion.

-SS 

[Shockandawe]

Well said SS

My sister lives every day with the knowledge she did this and every day regrets it.
She tries to relive the nightmare in order to help us. She puts herself out there in order to try to give us lbsers a glimpse into the mind of an MLCer and I know it takes her to places she would rather not go but she does so to help. This may be her way of atonement in some way but I know she puts herself through a lot to do this.
She focuses on her feelings and actions DURING her mlc not her feelings and actions now.

Shock and awe

[Mortesbride]

And of course they can both be true.

The OM/OW is probably a manipulator in many cases, but they are also being lied to by the MLCer.

I assume as a MLCer in that state of mind you can feel like you were manipulated, yet technically it was all your choice.

They are not mutually exclusive ideas.

[3Boys4Me]

Shock Sis, thank you for continuing to answer our questions and to share your story and understanding from your perspective. I personally have heard you take accountability over and over again for your actions during MLC. Your MLCers responsibility aside, that doesn’t absolve the MOP/OP from their role and responsibility as well. I know in my situation how controlling and manipulative the OP is - my spouse has recorded her demands of him only weeks after affair discovery - and she was telling my spouse how they would be “out” publicly, at sporting events where our children would be exposed etc - my spouse at the time would ask “what about the kids” and she couldn’t care less - mind you our sons had been very close friends and the OW was a good friend of mine, our entire circle of friends and our kids were terribly impacted by all this.

So Anjae - you seem to enjoy defending the OP in their roles - lets be clear - each person has 100% responsibility for their own actions, and any OP who willingly inserts him/herself into another’s persons marriage and family has responsibility for the destruction of that marriage/family and the negative impact on the lbs children’s lives.

[Shockandawe]

Which is why broken people attract broken people I guess.
The whole thing is a lie with each lying to the other and so it starts with lies and falsehoods.
I would bet the ow/om doesn’t tell the truth either and the mlcer lies their heads off but I still think the mlcer believes their own lies and I would think they would have to in order to justify what they are doing. They both wear masks do they not and the word fantasy is a nicer way of saying it’s one big fat lie after another and from BOTH sides.

3boys well said

Shock and awe