[AlvinTheMaker]

Time for my 8th volume.... Here are previous parts of my journey:

Alvin's 1st (New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?): https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10874.0;all
Alvin's 2nd (To be or not to be, that is the question):  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11031.0;all
Alvin's 3rd (Doctor Doctor please): https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11076.0;all
Alvin's 4th (Difficult to Cure): https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11127.0;all
Alvin's 5th (Ghost Love Score): https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11233.0;all
Alvin's 6th  (When You Believe): https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11375.0;all
Alvin's 7th  (Try): https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11459.0;all

This part of my story is titled "I'm the bad guy".....  because Billie Eilish is one of those things that manifests in behaviour/life of STBXW in number of ways. And I am apparently the "bad guy" in number of ways.    No lyrics this time as I honestly speaking cannot see anything worthy of that song apart of catchy tempo.

Life... Lots of changes.

Letting the genie out of bottle... finally telling the kids that she wants divorce.  Countdown T-4 days...

New city - I'm the one moving out and it will happen mid/late August....  Without W's help/assistance I really don't have much of a change to survive rural life on my own with kids.  Not sure how she's gonna handle it alone with kids (but it's her challenge, not mine).

Reversing parenting roles - will happen in September 1st, after that STBXW will be the main parent till end of May (kids being with me all school holidays and one long weekend per month).   

New home - part of me is excited about this, part of me worries if and how it becomes a home.   And of course I gotta find it first, LOL (but I think that for starters I will settle for smaller flat, and when I see how things go, I might upgrade in year or two).

New job  - After nearly 20 years I'm putting my business aside and starting a new job at big (international) company.  It will be professionally fun and hopefully challenging too

New life - pretty much everything in my life is about to change upside down.  From country boy to city boy. From business owner to office worker.  From full-time family-father to 'split-parenting'.  From fat to fit.  Saying goodbye to life and people I grew to love.


Divorce  - on it's way and will be finalized in November/December if things don't change drastically. And I think they will not change in long, long, long time, possibly never.

And I'm from here onwards referring W as STBXW.   Because it is reality.

So some interesting times ahead.... 

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling.... Not sure if I'm the only one feeling this way, but I notice that as I try to help others on their journey, I often times end up writing "smart stuff" that reflects my beliefs and who I have become. I wrote the below words in Sasquatch's story, and IMHO they to large extend reflect my current understanding of the process as whole.There are so many other lessons learned I could write too, but maybe I'll save them for the bestseller I want to write some day, LOL.

I'm coming from very similar place as you. A STBXW who is resentful or in "I have forgiven but I can never forget" mode. Been this way likely 5-10 years, of which I've been aware for 17+ months. The worst and greatest months of my life.

I'm gonna share you three lessons I've learned, maybe they will become useful:

I have made many mistakes in past, but here's the newsflash. So does everyone. So feel free to look at yourself with a bit (or maybe even more) of grace and forgiveness.  Fix what you think was wrong, and carry on. Life is all about growth. If you keep looking what other person was in the past, it's gonna keep you stuck.  If you keep looking what other person should become in the future, it's gonna keep you stuck. Focus on present you and present others. And become best of you. Grow daily. Physically, intellectually, emotionally, spiritually. It attracts people towards you. It makes you the lighthouse.

Which takes me to second item on my list. It is never about you... What you think of something and how you feel of it is always a choice you make. It is never about others.... The thing is... People in love forgive and forget, feel compassion. It makes love love. It makes people build dreams that last a lifetime. But to forgive is a choice, to look through eyes of compassion and love is a choice, and to forget is a choice... For reason or another she has chosen differently at some point in time, and it has allowed this massive lump of negativity to build within her...You may have done mistakes, but she chose how to feel and respond into your mistakes.... When she felt wronged back then, should have been addressed back then by her. Letting it be and grow in the shadows...was her choice. A mistake she made (see, all make mistakes) that allowed a hurting, blistering wound to evolve... Right now you just existing in same space or universe is enough to trigger the hurt.

Three, hurt makes people do crazy stuff. You just want out of it, fast. Me, my W, you, your W. We all follow this hardwired instinct to survive....  The more you hurt, the less rational decisions you make.It's just inbuilt chemistry and hormones in us. Fight, flight, freeze, fawn are the four basic modes. You are now fighting, she is likely in flight mode...As long as the hurt is there, as long as the triggering happens, nothing really changes....We really cannot heal each others hurts or make them better or worse with our own behaviour. Because the only person we control is us....  So focus on yourself.  Because it is the only person you can change, fix,save and love as whole.

Please do understand that all this is slow process, and you two will travel separate roads for many years, possibly forever.  And all you control is you and how you respond to things not in your control.

Alvin.

[PJ Ames]

Attaching Alvin. Stressful times ahead.

Don't forget the advice from early on about sleeping, drinking water, etc... Take care of yourself.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks PJ.... Back to basics is always a good rule of thumb. When you have steady foundation, you can add new layers on top of it afterwards....  Mentally speaking I'm somewhat prepared that the first 12 months of new life will be rollercoaster ride like never before.  But I'm not gonna worry it, but take it as a journey.

... and on the fun side of life (which I often times fail to share).... I'm growing up a circle beard.  Not sure if it adds to health, but at least I'm having fun grooming it etc.  STBXW would never kiss me with stubb/beard/moustache, so I shaved. But now I can have fun with it, and see whether or not it's something I enjoy keeping longterm, LOL.  Small dreams and small things make life fun.

Alvin

[Standing Strong]

Looks like everything is about to change, that must be exciting and a huge change of pace going on the offensive instead of playing defense.

Sounds really good, sure is moving forward.

Will be here for the ride 

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

Looks like everything is about to change, that must be exciting and a huge change of pace going on the offensive instead of playing defense.

Thanks for joining the posse, Standing

Actually I'm not sure if I've ever played defense

But  let's see what this step of life brings for me.  Hopefully some fun and happy times    

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling....

Well, the genie is now out of the bottle... Kids now know divorce is unavoidable, and they've been explained what the changes mean on practical level, and what it is coming.

STBXW's approach to whole event was very cold: "your father wanted me to come and stay, and say  this thing that should be so obvious to all you. We're divorcing"...  She did express some comfort to kids when they went emotional, but othewise she was very icy.

As to be expected,  G12 and G16  had figured it out what was coming.  But still, G16 had somewhat strong (tears´+crying)  emotional reaction over number of changes happening.  And G12 was worried of some things.  And S5 did grieve the part where it came obvious that he would not see his best friend next summer to same extend as now.  I tried to address all those concerns to best of my ability as all that negative happens on my time  (I did not address any of the negative things that will/may happen on W's time, as they are not my thing to address).... I also highlighted that none of what happens was my choice, and I would have chosen differently and there would have been good propablities of different outcome....  But at least now I can talk to kids about these things and engage them as part of the process of building "Home mk.2".

I did tell kids that they can, and should, talk about their feelings.  To me, to STBXW, to their bigger siblings,  to their friend, to councellor, to healthcare folks at school....   One interesting observation I made was that G16 struggless with the "its no use as its not certain it will help" bias.  Not really sure what else to do than encourage her, and try to explain her how biases work.
 
STBXW did once more try to squeeze some more extra days for herself.  Saying kids need to be able to visit her parents during summer holidays. I just said "grandparents are free to visit my place", or kids can go visit grandparents on her days (which are still very plenty)....   in the end I'm not asking kids to visit my family during school season, why should I give away even more of time when she's already having much more of it.  How I use my time with kids is my thing, how she uses her time with kids is her thing. How hard can it be to understand.

Money... it's clearly the 'new sweet spot' of STBXW now....   I think she's finally beginning to feel and realize some of the financial implications of divorce,, and begin to panic. Instead of going into "make more money and fix the problems" growth- mode (like most healthy adults would do),  she's turning into "I'll spend even less money than before, try to survive by starvation, and blame you for all the consequences" mode....   STBXW is now struggling with the thought that she may not afford all the stuff I'm leaving behind, saying some of it is worthless.    And when I listed her some of the options how we could deal with the sitch, she was not happy with none...  Oh well, I think the most straightforward and brutal way might be organize a massive yard sale, sell what sells at any price, and split the money 50/50. 

Oh, and I learned she's taking a week off from work right after I've moved (but kids are with me) and spend it at "home mk.1"... honestly put I have no clue what she thinks happens when I move that she needs a week for   


But umm... at this moment.  She's not the gal I dated, proposed or married. I guess I'm finally seeing the bug in edgar suite.  And the less I see her/him, the better for me.

Alvin. 

[Standing Strong]

That must have been very difficult. Sorry Alvin.

As for W.... when reality shatters fantasy, they don't like it.

Seems like she's trying to distance to avoid blame, but it's all her fault. She'll figure that out later.

Hang in there,

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

Seems like she's trying to distance to avoid blame, but it's all her fault. She'll figure that out later.

I did talk this with my father today.  He cannot understand any of W's behaviour... I told that she's running entirely on emotion. A person like that doesn't think with reason for any of the consequences.  Right now I'm giving her rope, plenty of rope, so she could try her luck as freely as possible. She either learns to master it,  or she starves herself, or she hangs herself with it. Either way, I win on all cases as my life is going onwards regardless if her.

Hang in there

Apart of seeing kids hurt because of some changes I'm all okey. And it really does not help kids if I lose my act now. They need the sane, non-emotional parent now

Possibly my biggest "issue" right now is one widowed lady who I met in local pagan group (it's mostly nature stuff about herbs etc) few nights back. She's really trying to woo me. Lots of "I wanna know you better"  etc smoke signals coming my way. I've already put out "middle of divorce" and "under construction" signs as I really don't think I'd be up for new serious R in some time... But it's nice to see "become best of you" attracting new folks (she made the move based on stuff I did a out month back).

Alvin.

[Thunder]

Hi Alvin I'm a little confused about something you said, if I may.

"STBXW is now struggling with the thought that she may not afford all the stuff I'm leaving behind, saying some of it is worthless."

Why would she struggle at the thought of affording the stuff you are leaving behind, if it is worthless?

I am assuming the marital assets are being divided equally, so why would either of you pay for them?  Seems they should be equally divided so no one person is benefiting more than the other one.

Did I misunderstand you?  Or is she getting more of the assets?

I'm glad to hear things went relatively smooth with the talk with the kids, under the circumstances.
Ice cold is very typical with MLCer's.  No surprise there.
They are usually, emotionally, shut down.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi Thunder,

She's getting more physical assets because:

1) I have zero need for rural stuff and tools in the city (but she will if staying).

2) kids will be spending most of school season at Home.mk.1 -which is why tons of sporting etc stuff (especially for winter) is more needed at Home.mk.1 too.... The summer stuff: swimming suites/pants.

3) she will be having about 4x more space.
(And since she's been hoarding for 20yrs, there is way more stuff than my flat could fit into).

So this creates an imbalance...the real value of rural homes is not so much in the walls but what's within the house (houses can be bought at <100k; Vs  500k items that have paid/could be resold at least buck a piece)

But while writing the above, I understood the above are true only if she gets the mortgage...

If she doesn't get one...sigh...   

So it's back to waiting game.

Alvin.

[Thunder]

Yes Alvin, I suppose that's true.  The mortgage would have to be settled first before anything.

When I moved out, of course I couldn't take half of a 3 bedroom house with me.  My lawyer had me make a list of our assets and then put a price on them.  Like how much would we realistically get (not what we thought they were worth) if we sold those items at a garage sale.  It took awhile to gather.
(personal items were not included, like clothing, or in your case kids toys or items)  Unless she has a mink coat.  ha ha

Then we adding all our assets the dollar amount was split 50/50.

Because I moved out he had to give me half of that amount from his retirement savings, or the amount would come out of any savings you two have.
There was no way he could not have given me cash for everything, but it had to come out of somewhere.

So we never had to actually sell anything.  But I received half of the dollar amount of the assets.  Which you should get too, if she stays in the house.
So much easier then hassling with selling things when one of us could use them.

Well hopefully she can get the mortgage refinanced.  It would make things easier.
I would really suggest making a list of assets, if you haven't already done so.
Then garage sale price them to get an accurate amount to be divided.

This could be attached to your D paperwork, in case a judge would need to see it.

Good luck.  It's a long process.   

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks Thunder.... I'm already way deep in that process...

I really hope there's no need to go into yard sales etc as I do think it would be waste of time/resources for all. But STBXW does not follow logic now...


Journaling.... So STBXW texted me that one of G12 cousins (of same age) is at FIL/MIL and was asking G12 to spend rest of the week there...I just wrote "no thanks as we have plans (we do), but the cousin is welcomed to stay with us if she wants to, and join the plans too."

STBXW tried again "but they could spend private time the two of them, that's the idea".... I just wrote "private time can be found here too. S5 spends days with me, or playing either alone or with with BFF; G12 does her things, and G16 her stuff. And occasionally we do things together. And there is extra bed available too. And you know I'll cook, provide ice-cream etc. And I'll make sure she gets safe here if she takes the bus."

No response. Of any kind....and I thought I was being very generous... So sad.

Alvin.

[Standing Strong]

Sounds like she wanted to be the "Cool mom".

Well, she can do that with HER time. Something she'll have to learn is that she can't spend your time anymore, and that will be a bitter pill for her.

Consequences. Unforeseen.

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

Consequences. Unforeseen.

Oh, you just made me drop the chair in laughter.... 

But I think this is a lot like what I wrote in gMan's thread...   one of those "red flags" I missed out about relationship going wrong was lack of consequences.  Both ways I think.

She did not put any boundaries on me.  And it was lack of consequences.

And  I just gave, gave, gave - but did not ask anything in return (because you do things for love).   It is pretty fireproof way to kill some of the tension/spark etc because bargaining and trade is one of those things that keeps relationship lively....   and I can only blame myself for teaching her the "bad habbit" of "no consequences" on that area (in other areas of us living, I did have both boundaries and consequences, which possible highlighted the conflict and contradiction in her)....  Maybe quoting the whole post I wrote to gMan is good thing, as it reflects a lot of things going on my head....

Hi gMan,

I really enjoy reading your latest adventures.    It touches something within, maybe because dating is one of those things that I've been processing/thinking  internally for some time. What seemed like valid approach some 20+yrs back simply does not apply anymore.  I'm a different person, I know more, adult women are different etc.  The whole game is just different, and if I would try to enter the game like 20yr old I'd be bruised and hurt in no time. 

So here's my 5cents worth of dating advice you never asked (and possible coming from source who doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows, LOL.  But you'll be the judge of that)....   

At airsoft a lady immediately approached the desk and asked me if she knew me. She thought she knew me from highschool and asked me my name and so on. ...I think she just found something fun for her and her son to do for the day and figured she'd flirt a bit too. I called it and no I don't want any of it.

Many gals flirt just for fun....  Which  makes women so hard to understand for us guys - because most of us men don't flirt for fun (heck, most of us don't flirt at all, LOL).

But maybe flipping the attitude helps.... if you are always assuming women to be genuinely interested everytime they flirt, you are having an expectation.  And if there's one thing everyone should have learned here, it is that expectations about other people are bad.  You miss the ball at least half the time.

So what if you just reverse the whole thing -  assume  they might be "flirting for fun"  or "flirting for real" or "you are just misreading the whole thing",  and let it build up from there.  Either way, flirting is just fllirting, nothing more than pre-check to see if you are the kind of person to get to know on any level.

It's become obvious to me, how much people just use me. How the yoda thing fits into it is, xw is just trying to keep OM happy because he's got money and she wants it. That made me sad a bit, because I know she probably doesn't treat him like she did me. She treated me the way she did because I was nice and she knew I"d put up with it. 

Big part of relationships is based on mutual win-win.  You do/give something, she does/gives something in return.  It's the trade that does make relationships not just work but "emotionally fun".  It creates tension, spark, the pull. 

Say she asks you look at her car.. in return you ask for her to bake your favorite cupcakes you love or something of equal investment
She asks if you can pass her the ketchup, and you ask her to sing a bit of "ketchup song" (even small thing go value for value)
etc etc.  turn those occasions into flirty banter or whatever...     

If looking back....   I sure as hell can say that this is one "red flag" I missed out.   On some point the trade stopped. I just gave, gave, gave but received nothing in return.  I likely should have realized to start "dating" STBXW again but like so many persons in love (and stuck in rut) I likely just kept on giving and occasionally begrunted when she no longer played the game...  instead I should have gone back to "dating mode".  Instead of giving things, make her jump some hoola-hoops in fun way (relationships are "hard work" this way)... but lesson learned, not repeating the same mistake again.   Not even with her

 

I also need to learn the "type" of person I'm a good match for and will have the most success with. It's just tough.. getting divorced at 40 and realizing you never had a clue about dating and all of the required social interactions.

Don't feel sorry for yourself.  I think it's the same for all of us in this age group.... I sure as hell can say that just re-thinking what dating was alike, and putting it into current knowledge base and context.... I really did not have a clue about dating apart of knowing precisely what I wanted from a girl.   And STBXW was 10/10 gem back then (then just some $h!te called life happened)....   And it is one of those reasons I am (re-)thinking about the whole dating thing.   Regardless of if I continue to stand or move on into new relationship,  I'm gonna have to learn to date in age appropiate way.   Because it is one of those skills I will need no matter what, and it makes me better - just for myself.   

I think it like this....  in order for me to get the kind of woman I want (or any males I want to become friends with),  I must 
a) know who I am  (so I know what matches me and how to market who I am),   and 
b) know the kind of woman I want  (looks, behaviour, characteristics, anything you'd want from a person you will spend your life with) and 
c) be pretty much the kind of person I want to attract (the opposites attract may be true for hurt people, but I think in healthy relationships it's the other way around - people who are similar enough attract each other.  It's all about aligning to values, beliefs goals,  lifestyle, all things external etc.)

And then when you know what you want from woman, the flirting and dating is basically all about throwing "tests" to see how well that other person matches your wants.  A non-smoker?  It's easy to test just by looking at her for some time, and you'll definitely know by the time you get close...   A non-drinker?  Bit harder, but at least you can eliminate anyone drunk at the moment....  Have yourself a list of the essentials, and work from easiest to check to "harder to check" (as you really don't want to invest too much in time for getting to know person who turns out to be say a smoker).....   Women do "test" us men if we are compatible, the same way us men should "test" woman if they are compatible (but I think a lot of men don't take this as mindfully, omit the tests and  go from relationship to relationship until finding something that feels good enough)....   And how do you know if woman you like is compatible?   By knowing yourself: who you are and what you want.   You can't blame the other person for being who they are, you can only look at yourself from picking a person that was "bad" match (but hey , we all make mistakes and we learn from them- that is what flirting and dating is to large extends, a school to make mistakes so we could find the person that matches us well )

Just my 5 cents worth,

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling a bit....

Have had a busy day.   Emptying the garage. Tons of stuff in there... but I'm on the winning side. Tomorrow it will be all empty and ready to fill it up with stuff I will be taking along.

Did have a lengthy calls with G19 and G20, and also W's former BFF. 

G19.... well, W had not told her a thing ... but she saw D coming and was (as usual) in "life happens"-mood....   what she did not see coming was my beard (hilarous laughter followed by yuck-reaction)....  Anyway, I told her the parenting shifts etc. stuff she needed to know about implications of D. The only thing that raised her eyebrows was when I said that STBXW has got no mortgage yet, and there is a possibility family home might be placed on sale. I just said "I know, she's running on emotions and not thinking this on logic. But even on worst scenario, it is gonna be a lengthy process".... then we chatted about her school,  training, the possibility of her dropping by at Home mk.1 before the move and Home mk.2 once I've settled in.

G20... it was interesting.... she did ask if I told STBXW about her not contacting often enough. I said yes it was discussed as STBXW and I talked about her not contacting G12 and G16 too,  and asked howcome?  She told that instead of nightly group 'good night' message she's receiving individual good night message too.   And she doesn't really know whether or not to respond to it, daily.  She much rather would have call/chat weekly (or more often).... I just said respond as you wish, but give her time....      Then G20 started explaining that STBXW might have some kind of concentration/hyperactivity disorder, because the way she needs to hoard and spread stuff and the way she now behaves.  I said it's all possible, but it could also be just stress or good ole depression as they too make similar behaviour.  But eventually and regardless of name, there's unfortunately nothing we can do except stand aside and be there when and if she needs her family to support.   

STBXW's former BFF... she's volunteering to help with the kids. Now and when they are with STBXW... I also asked her to look after STBXW  if she hits any issues. And even without issues to remain as her friend.  She said she will...   She said she hopes that we could do things amicably because of kids. I told her that's my goal/plan, but rest is up to STBXW... And then we chatted a bit about my work and move.

Other stuff... 

Kids are finally beginning to bomb me with questions about home mk.2... where will they sleep, how long the ride will take etc. very basic stuff.  It's good.   They are beginning to think about it,  now my job is to give them some dreams to make it look like a nice thing.

STBXW has agreed my proposition of mutual no-alimony arrangement.  I think it will be win-win for both of us (and at least I plan to remain committed to funding the kids with whatever they need as long as I have any money)....   And she's axing her pension fund (I suggested that she lets it remain, and instead takes a loan and pays my half from the loan - nope).... and then she agreed a bunch of other financial proposals I made for her.

But yes. This thing is moving onwards. Slowly but surely.

Alvin.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

STBXW has agreed my proposition of mutual no-alimony arrangement.  I think it will be win-win for both of us (and at least I plan to remain committed to funding the kids with whatever they need as long as I have any money)....   And she's axing her pension fund (I suggested that she lets it remain, and instead takes a loan and pays my half from the loan - nope).... and then she agreed a bunch of other financial proposals I made for her.

Does your STBXW have legal representation? The reason why I ask is that a judge will review all the documents and if he/she feels that the arrangement is lopsided in favor of one party over the other-particularly the one he/she assumes has less power, then the agreement will be nullified.

In my situation, my ex got alimony. We agreed to five years at max amount with no modifications. That gave her a fixed amount for five years while I got a time limit. She also got 9.25 years credit of my pension. I kept the house but paid her out half of the equity. She had an attorney and I had one as well even though I negotiated most of the terms prior to retaining an attorney. But I knew I needed one to review the settlement document. The judge mad one modification and signed off on it.

I just don't want you to get your STBXW in too many agreements and have a judge toss it out. Then your STBXW will feel that you are trying to cheat her and then the fight will be on.

((((Hugs))))

Ready

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks Ready... 

Does your STBXW have legal representation? The reason why I ask is that a judge will review all the documents and if he/she feels that the arrangement is lopsided in favor of one party over the other-particularly the one he/she assumes has less power, then the agreement will be nullified.

The local alimony system is bit different from US version, and the fate of agreement will be reviewed by authorized third party next moth.  If the authorizing party rejects the agreement, then we can decide to either renogiate the parenting pack (alimony included) or leave it all up to judge. For better or worse, local legislation does not allow "forever" contracts in alimony issues unless both agree  - nor does it allow the other person to start living on alimony unless both agree.  Say  for example if she loses her job or I lose my job,  or I get significant promotion or she gets significant promotion, then the whole alimony contract can be nulled one-sidedly and placed back on the table for review at any time. no questions asked.... But on the other side of scale is the fact that opening alimony contracts opens up also the parenting pact. If left to court, the system usually favors the parent who has got steady job,  and life and who wants the kids (and who kids also want).  So  there is the carrot, and there is the stick.   The better you do in life (and with your kids), the better your chances are in winning the rights to be the "main parent" for your kids (if it ever goes to court) and avoid alimony. But it is a risk as the judge can decide basically anything, on parenting rights as well as on alimony.  Which is why very very very few choose the court route - it is voluntarily giving away all the power... Right now, right here the agreement of no-alimony should be financially fair for both of us,  and work for best of us.   If life changes then the deal is easily opened.



Journaling....    It's always interesting to see how gears in brains of kids begin to move....   

G16 loves math and is good at it, and she's now beginning to do the math on divorce.   The end result has been the question  "how is STBXW going pay all of this?".   Not once, nor twice but thrice did this question pop up today....   The best I have been able to say is "same way as me, by applying a loan from the bank and working hard"....       Eventually came out the question "what if she does not have a job, what if she cannot get the loan"?   Then I explained that if so-and-so happens, the system provides a kind of 'soft spot' to land and I'm also there to take care of them if required.  So there's absolutely no need to panic.

And S5 is talking about Christmas, and bit about the birthdays of two of us....  shall there be a christmas tree (we usually have gotten one from the woods, but likely it will be way more easier to just buy one from the square) or will there be snow for snowmen (it can swing any way, but as we'll be right by the sea the odds are not good).   And we're already discussing what items he'd like to take with me and which ones should be left at Home mk.1.

G12.... not talking much. Apart of horses. As long as there are horses somewhere and in some format, she says she's going to be happy. 

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling... I think that today's interaction with STBXW about house brought up one very important piece of understanding about life in general, as well as STBXW's behaviour.  It is that without trust fear is the only possibility.   

She's not trusting me.
And even more so, she's not trusting her own wings.
And it's making her fear,
and that fear is making her do some really bad choices (like fear always does).


On the upside of life... G20 dropped for quick surprise visit. 

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journalling...

Circle of pain is expanding.... My father (in his mid 80s, with Parkinson, LBD etc health issues) is having hard time accepting realities of upcoming divorce.  I know denial and resistance are mandatory parts of the grief process, but still I so much would have wanted to save him from this experience ... I care and look after him, and he cares and looks after for me to best of his abilities. That is what family is all about, and I cannot think of greater privildge and honor (and what I have learned and will learn is a model I try to pass to my kids).

KIds.... questions, questions, questions.... For some I have the answer, for some I don't have the answer. I'm sharing my best knowledge so they could build a somewhat realistic judgement of the situation.  I'm making sure they know there are lots of cool things ahead, but I'm also making sure they know life will be different and in some ways "harder" for all of us.  The reactions are all over the chart - S5 is  being the most optimistic one (I guess he trusts me fully),  G16 is more like "one more year and I can do whatever I want regardless of you two nuts"  (but he is also the one understanding various ups and downs best),   and G12 is struggling with all of this (this is possiby the worst age to go through D).... I'm trying my best (and I pray it is enough).

I did make a video chat/call to STBXW today...

I had to talk about bank issue. We are reworking the family accounts so that kids get more "rights/access" to their own money  However, she had left one option unchecked, and it would have placed serious restriction on how G16 can use her own account.  I just expressed it as lightly as possible "could you please refill the application and check the option z is checked as it is something G16 really needs. Thanks".

Then I talked about division of physical assets and asked some questions.  I told her that I've already put a good deal of stuff in the garage and I'd like to have her opinion of few bigger items I will work next week. All things we have purchased together, or I've gifted her, or kids have made for us/her...Do what you will, take as much you want,  or let's donate them to kids....  She's definitely wiping our marriage (and family history) off the walls.  All she really wants to keep is stuff that she has inherited from her grandmother or that has been gifted to her before the two of us met.  Well, I'm definitely taking everything that has got emotional and practical value to me or kids....   and here's the really fun part. All the stuff that she talks as "worthless".   She would want "us" to donate it to charity. Um, yeah, no thanks.  Some of it - sure, I'd been willing to bin it for years.  But there's plenty of good stuff in the mix....   I think this is part of her plan to try to minimize financial cost/implications of divorce on her side.

Alvin.
 

[Standing Strong]

Hey Alvin,

A lot stuck out to me: Apples and Oranges, but similar.

The "Stuff" and her grandmother.........

When mine broke, she told me the most important and valuable item she possessed was a letter from her grandmother. For a while, it took on a life of it's own and she kept it on her nightstand. I don't know how many times she read it..... but she'd cry, cry, cry and stare at it.
Perhaps some aspect of the child inside or something? Just a thought/observation.

The "stuff"...... I've seen this. A year up to BD and all the time afterward, W wanted to eliminate all the stuff in the house. Didn't matter if it was expensive or not... wanted it all gone. Sentimental stuff, history stuff, anything that took up space.... she thought it was "all crap" and was "suffocating her".
I know women get to a place where they want to make things simpler but I wonder if there's some sort of MLC factor in there too. We were about MLC'er abandoning their lives and leaving all the stuff behind. I know with mine, there was ZERO rationality in her desire to purge. She had a rule (which was never implemented)  about getting rid of 25% of everything a year....... until what? We live in an empty house? I got rid of a bunch of unneeded stuff (a quarter of a garage), and I think she  threw away 6 pairs of shoes and some shirts (almost nothing).  LOL!!!

Do you think all this is actually "real" to her? Or just fantasy island?

-SS

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I know women get to a place where they want to make things simpler but I wonder if there's some sort of MLC factor in there too. We were about MLC'er abandoning their lives and leaving all the stuff behind.

Well, I know my wife left me with any and all items she didn't want. I purged things for a month. When I moved out of my house, I came with just a couple of truckloads of stuff. That's it. I threw everything else out. I didn't want the reminders of everything I had lost.

So I guess the MLCer leaves stuff to escape and the LBSer cleans out to heal.

((((Hugs)))

Ready

[Thunder]

So true Ready.

Only keep what you really want, they don't care.

[Treasur]

 

So I guess the MLCer leaves stuff to escape and the LBSer cleans out to heal.

This feels spot on to me.
Mourning just wrote something about it on her thread actually.
I suspect what makes it difficult is that many of us LBS are forced to do it under pressure of selling houses or moving when we are not necessarily emotionally quite clear-sighted? But I agree with Thunder....by and large I think they don't care bc they are trying to erase their old life/self. Ha ha, I suspect they would drop the LBS off at the landfill or Goodwill if they could  And bc they are, well, in crisis  , they sometimes fixate on one or two things that seem a bit odd to us while they seem happy to discard the rest. That was certainly my experience with my xh.....he left lots of things I never imagined he would, like photos of his recently deceased grandmother, but stole a watch he had given me  and wanted the dining table from our first home (which must be lovely for owife!) 

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks all....

I guess clinging into heritage is one way of STBXW finding out her path and who she is.  Kind of like going into roots. She's been into heritage stuff  (digging into her family roots as well as mine) maybe10 years (which bit oddly would overlap my estimate of beginning shadow-MLC  - likely just co-incidence)....  AFAIK her grandmother was major figure in his childhood and a person she admired. Strong independent woman who survived war etc. difficulties. I know STBXW has read her diaries at least twice.

Her getting rid of stuff... the odd thing is she was a hoarder before BD (and even right after). And one of the reasons there is so much stuff is her hoarding... but maybe something's changing (maybe these three months alone have showed that she can do well without stuff).  Maybe it is form of escape, maybe it is part of the play she's playing in effort to save money.  Anyway, not my worry really. I'm taking everything I think will be useful to me (and some things that are not useful but just "fun" to have). 

Me cleaning stuff... definitely therapeutic. I so much match the stereotype of average Virgo.  Give me chaos and I bring order, LOL.  Part of me loves this massive cleanup challenge....    I have talked with some divorced people, and it seems there are two schools.   Those who get rid of anything that reminds of the past,  and those who cherish the items with positive memories.   And I'm definitely on the latter group.  Maybe some day I want to get rid of the items but not now.   All in all I think HomeMk.2 will be a lot like the home we had before HomeMk.1 with some nice additions.

Oh well, back to carrying stuff (my biceps are beginning to look pretty spectacular - this is better than going to gym, LOL)

Alvin.

[Benson]

Hi Alvin

You have been giving me lots of feedback and support  and I appreciate it . I just went back and read your first post and your journey sounds like a tough one. Five kids and one really young one so I imagine there is heartbreak in that. The connection your wife has made to a twenty something girl that is a head spinner also.

Reading through to current I really wish you luck on your new and incredibly different journey . I think you will go great as you have that optimistic spirit. I have that also you can’t take that away even after bashing us for months with blunt instruments. I think it’s something your Mum or Dad or both bread into you .

In your very first post you talked about your W commenting on things that happening over the 15 years and I like you  only think back weeks or months and see blue sky and puppies ,toddlers and great holidays.

Today my wife said in an email that she first felt abandoned by me when out first child my amazing son was born 17 and half years ago.. I won an award in the company I was working for and my boss asked me to appear briefing to accept and have a beer to toast the arrival of my new born. In hind sight maybe I should have attended but have been in the hospital from  5 am when baby induced and rubbed Ws back and stayed with her all day . I asked permission and she was about to sleep so figured it was all good at the time. To raise it now though with 7 or 8 other random times just seems so incredible.  Even said that I didn’t pursue her enough on honeymoon in Hawaii and that showed I didn’t truely desire her. My recollection was that her migraine is was front and centre that week and I even recall looking for Us meds that matched up to her strong Australian migraine pills .. 19 years ago.

Revisionist History 100% to justify any cruel and brutal actioned she has taken and will continue to take now.
I hope your kids are fine with W looking after them for a period  Alvin.. The more I read the more I realise we all have similar pain to navigate through these crazy MLC journeys ...

[5hilmerton]

Hi there Alvin Sir,
it took me a while but i have read through most of your story.  The Engineer in me reads word for word...the over analyzer in me goes back and re-reads.

I really want to thank you for some of the finest words i could have read. I read these words most days to get me started and share them with others including my D. I usually giggle at the end not sure why, i think it is because of the word you chose. 

Thanks  ....   I think that like most adversities,  MLC can be a blessing in disquise if looking from another perspective.  The lessons and skills all of us learn (active listening, being responsive instead of reactive,  ability to think mindfully under pressure, patience, minding your business etc)  can and should be be adopted into much wider area than just our MLC partner. All kinds of relationships, professional and personal, can enhance if and when we put the lessons learned into proper use....  To survive would be just equal co-exist and survive with our MLCr,  to thrive is to put the lessons learned into good practice and have a life that is even better than before.

I've written this before, but this is the best worst experience of my life. Silver linings are there for those who are willing to change their perspective a bit...and considering the cost that their crisis throws into our lives, it is very empowering to have something back from this behemoth.

Stay strong and thank you!!! I will be watching your journey, move and transition.
5hil

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks Benson, thanks 5hill.  Indeed, this is a journey for all of us.  So unique for each of us. But still so much the same for each of us. 

It's great you have found some comfort and wisdom and positivity in my thoughts and words.  It does bring some meaning/purpose to all of this.

I think TinyBuddha (excellent website every person should read occasionally) has captured my current philosophy so well: "When a photographer can't change a scene, he changes his angle and lens to capture the best of that scene. Similarly, when you can't change a situation in your life, change your perspective and mindset to get the best out of that situation."...   It's not a recipe for a happy life (as $h!te hitting the fan is as constant as good times, and oftentimes out of our control). But it is a recipe for becoming better at reframing ones life (practice makes better, as in real world photography). Finding meaning and gratefulness from various adversities of life is a true real world superpower.

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

And to journal a bit....   Today was the appraisal day.   A nearby real-estage agent came in, spent about 20 minutes indoors looking around and asking some questions, telling that houses in this area are not great sellers especially if they need anything more than very light fixing  (gee, I never would have figured it out).    He will email an official appraisal next Monday.... It  was propably one of the fastest $500 I've ever spent (makes me think I'm definitely on wrong line of business).

Afterwards I chatted a bit with STBXW - about the house, physical assets and money...   it was bit so-and-so.  Both of us are sticking to our guns a bit. And she's still giving me the "royal north pole" treatment...    Anyway, she's agreed to come back on Saturday to check some of the physical assets and we need to agree (or disagree,LOL) what to do with some of the goods.... On the upside,  I've been thinking the financial "maximize income, minimize spending"sitch upcoming divorce puts both of us into....  If (and this is semi-BIG if)  W gets the mortgage and buys me out, then I would have roughly 50K worth of excess funds to play with.   If I manage to "invest" those funds properly (stocks, bonds, interests etc) and stick with the miracle of compound interest patiently, then basically within 10 years I might have enough funds to buy myself a nice small "retirement home" from the countryside.  And if I hit a miss, then at least I tried.  Dream big as they say.

It was great to see W showing affection to kids...not sure if it is possible to over-do motherly love, but, um... yeah, too sugar-coated for me.  But at least the kids loved every bit of it.... Not sure if possible to describe in words but you can actually 'see' the hunger she has got for being and becoming and fitting into model of 'good mother'.

Alvin.

[PJ Ames]

Sorry you're going through all this. What takes years to build can vanish in a minute or twenty. It completely sucks.

When a photographer can't change a scene, he changes his angle and lens to capture the best of that scene. Similarly, when you can't change a situation in your life, change your perspective and mindset to get the best out of that situation

Thanks for sharing this! It's something I needed to hear.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling.... 

STBXW came in today to go through some physical goods we need to split.  Mission accomplished.

The "worthless" goods....  After about half an hour she got tired of going through stuff as well as my suggestion of simply dumping them all for yardsale , and she said  "I'll pay you $150 extra for the whole lot in division of assets".... The worthless stuff was not so worthless after all, LOL.   All I could say was "sold".  A yardsale likely  would have left us both with double the money but I'm happy like this too.  She gets all the clutter and work, and I get some money. 

Then STBXW shared some good news .... W's baby sister has agreed to give her sister a zero interest loan of 40K if the bank turns down the mortgage on full amount.   It would take some pretty unusual things for her to get turned down at the bank now....     Everyone wins. She gets the house,  kids can carry the school here, and I get plenty of money to start anew...   She also said the mortgage talk will be on 21st.

The realities of divorce are starting to emerge..     As I today dismantled and carried out the MBR bed into carage,  S5 said "wish things would stay as they are now.  Mommy living at grandma's place and you being here"....  And G12 is withdrawing even more.  Her school season starts soon, and I'll make sure she gets to see school nurse/councellor ASAP....  G16 is taking things pretty well (focusing mostly on her own stuff like any teenager).

As for me.... still so much to do,  yet so little time.  But I'll do my best and it has to be enough.

Alvin.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

And G12 is withdrawing even more.  Her school season starts soon, and I'll make sure she gets to see school nurse/councellor ASAP....  G16 is taking things pretty well (focusing mostly on her own stuff like any teenager).

It is going to be really hard on them. It is the death of their family and each person will react differently. Be prepared that G12 recovers faster as she is already grieving while G16 is in denial. A good friend of mine lost her husband a while back. Her son was stoic and strong throughout for his mom. Years later, he hit rock bottom and mom realized that he never had the opportunity to grieve the loss of his father. That being strong for her left him still with wounds that needed to be addressed.

and she said  "I'll pay you $150 extra for the whole lot in division of assets".... The worthless stuff was not so worthless after all, LOL.   All I could say was "sold".

Yes, and you could have spent the whole day haggling with people only willing to give you a few pennies for things your things. You took the money and she got the junk. An adult action that brought peace to the situation and at the very best cost you $150.00. Good investment from my perspective.

Just continue to be the adult for you and your family.

(((((Ready)))))

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling....  Carrying on with the "bad guy" theme.  This is actually hilarious....   If reading between the lines, it seems the person who cheated does not trust the one who did not cheat.  I gotta love the universal irony, ROFL.

So I've got two potential flats as HomeMk2 in my hands.  The only downside is that I've been doing the math on finances of the move, and I'm short of some cash.  As I don't have loaded family members like W to back me up, my only option would be take high interest loan (essentially take 5K loan, pay back 6K year later - which is really not smart).  So then I realized that G12 and G16 are basically sitting on top of hefty college funds (basically all money I've earned and put aside for them).  So I asked them if they'd be willing to loan some of that as short term zero-interest loan that is paid back once STBXW pays me my share of the house (and if it takes time, then I'll do 500$ per month payments for about a year.  And they said it's okey.

As W is the co-custodian and shares equal access to their college funds, I send her a message and asked "is doing so-and-so okey for you too"?

Her response....   " no problem as long as they get their money back.  And you should at least notify them".

Umm... really    As if I would run off with their money.  As if I would not ask their opinion....  if I didn't think STBXW was bit looney before, now I can say she's really living in some very bizarre alternate universe of her own, ROFL.

Oh this MLC is a gift that keeps on giving.

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journalling... So I'm now pass another hurdle.  I've got myself a rental flat.

Or not just a flat, but a drop-dead-corgeous HomeMk.2     The kitchen of my dreams (even better than at HomeMk1),  corgeous tall rooms (or actually it's all just one gigantic room as the house was build in 1920s),  bits of rustique here and there (some old brick wall/structures still showing),  some rural style (lovely wooden floor), with brand new bathroom and utilities, everything remodeled and brand new. Surrounded by restaurants, art galleries, parks, zoo, amusement park., only few miles from the center of everything....   And best of all. It is just 10 minute walk to work/back (instead of the so usual 1-2 hours on subway/metro that most people spend).  That's a freaking miracle. 

So yes.  Today I've got big smile on face

Alvin.

[5hilmerton]

Alvin Sir,

"I've written this before, but this is the best worst experience of my life. Silver linings are there for those who are willing to change their perspective a bit...and considering the cost that their crisis throws into our lives, it is very empowering to have something back from this behemoth."

This sounds wonderful i could feel your smile when reading your description.  Quite possibly the perfect home/flat for your next step/new chapter in your journey ...i guess this could be considered a "silver lining". 

 I too am finding the inner strength i forgot i had...

I will be following,
5hil

[Standing Strong]

Sounds great Alvin 

You'll get it all tidied out and then be able to show it off to the kids. What an adventure that will be 
Safe, new and exiting. Maybe a new favorite place for them.

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks 5hill + Standing.

Safe, new and exiting. Maybe a new favorite place for them.

Re, favorite place....  It's possible I may get the prize for "coolest vacation target of the year", LOL.  But I know the novelty will wear down sooner or later.... It's just  gonna be so different from rural life.  Easier and more fun in one way, but like having a vacation each month, it will get boring on some point. And I get fun can also be a disservice for the kids unless I place some boundaries and teach them that  benefits (=fun) require some work in return.

Alvin.

[PJ Ames]

Congrats on the flat Alvin!

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling... Been a while since last time.   

Kids spent last weekend with STBXW, and I headed for first solo weekend at HomeMk#2 .  My (succesfull) goal was to measure things in there and get familiar with enviroment.... The flat - it's really a breathe of fresh air. Loving it. Already having also tons of ideas what to do with it....  And the surroundings.  If I was an MLCr gone loose, the enviroment would be pretty much spot on.  Tons of possibilities for hedonistic bachelor life  (for better or worse, none of it is really my thing).  And the landlord said the area has got one of the highest single ratio's in the country    (that might come handy in the future).

I did dust out my clubbing shoes and spent two fun solo nights at local  dance clubs.... God it was fun to just dance my hearts pleasure and let twenty years of undanced dancing to flow out.  Basically did two half marathon's worth of footwork during the weekend, LOL.... I don't know how well folks here know clubbing scene, but most people do not go clubbing to meet potential partners, but to dance and enjoy the music, or to get the excercise (the entrance fee to club is way cheaper than having same number of hours at zumba etc lessons).  I'm definitely beginning to understand why I was so damn fit when I met STBXW; I was likely doing 3-4 half-marathons a week, LOL. ...  on the downside one of my nails broke (dancers have got the same nail issues as runners)...  And yes, despite going solo, and trying to remain solo, I did socialize a bit.  I think "be the prize" is beginning to show outside 

I joined a local midlifers divorce WhatsUp group about week back.   Again... lots of fun. Very up close and personal stuff from all areas of life... The interesting bit, I think there are couple of MLCrs  (group contains people on both side of fence).   One of them has been very open to me for some reason.  It's been, hmm,  educational experience, to read/listen and follow her side of the story on such a close distance without the emotional bonding. 

Practical things.... moving onwards one item at a time.   Tons of small and medium sized stuff in there, but doing my best to have it all taken care of before the move.

The funny stuff... I asked STBXW to give me some kind of estimate on her jewellery for division of assets.  She wrote back $50.... Okey, I'm not gonna challenge her on this though I know the real value is something totally different.  You cannot even get one decent pair of earrings for the money,LOL. 

Alvin.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

The funny stuff... I asked STBXW to give me some kind of estimate on her jewellery for division of assets.  She wrote back $50.... Okey, I'm not gonna challenge her on this though I know the real value is something totally different.  You cannot even get one decent pair of earrings for the money,LOL.

Then offer her $25.00 for all of it.

Then pawn all of it. Enjoy the flat and the dancing. You deserve it.

(((((Ready))))

[AlvinTheMaker]

Then offer her $25.00 for all of it.
Then pawn all of it.

Hmm.... that moment could very well be worth the effort 
ROFL.

Alvin.

[Standing Strong]

Sounds like you're a busy bee Alvin 

Cruising right along. It's really good to see you doing so well. 

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

Sounds like you're a busy bee Alvin 

Cruising right along. It's really good to see you doing so well. 

-SS

Yes, I've definitely been a busy bee.

Today I signed the papers for the move.  Total cost of 4K$ - yikes.  But what else should I expect when moving interstate

I've also scheduled appointment with the child welfare services.  Time to make the "no alimony" and "meeting schedules" official next monday....   STBXW said she wants to re-think the "no alimony" deal once more. I just said you are free to think about it as much as you want, but please do understand that if we don't reach the proposed deal, then I'm willing to change the rules of game significantly  (because so far I've been playing very nice and generous, but it is a choice).  Regardless of what STBXW decides, I do have a plan that "plays" for me.   I just wish she would understand that if it goes to court,  it is gonna be way worse deal for all of us (kids included). 

The house appraisal...  Finally something's happening with it.  The appraiser sent a number of additional questions,  and then asked me "how would you feel of value of 90k"?  I just wrote back "that is IMHO way too low" and then argumented my view properly.  Some time later he sent another email "oops, I though your house was older.  This changes the appraisal more in line with what you thought"...  I then asked on how many data points the appraisal is based upon, and he said "not many".... I guess he had no idea of what the real value might be and was just fishing my perspective.  Too bad I didn't  add extra 50k  to my own opinion

School season's now on...  I've been messaging with three different school principals about the upcoming arrangements.  So far green light from all of them.,  two of them actually said "nice to see somebody who's thought this through well"... I'm also bit sad as this is the last/final school season (so far) that I get to see my kids enroll.... When taking S5 to school, I ended for walk with with STBXW-former-BFF.  We had a lengthy and deep talk about the changes this does for everyone's life as well as life moving onwards.  It was propably the most profound talk the two of us have had in these 10+ years we've known each other.  But better late than never.

I had a couple of lengthy chats and calls with G19...  I sense something's pressuring her.  Maybe beginning of school season, maybe sleeping issues, maybe boyfriend issues. Maybe all of those. But I'm not poking - just giving her the space to come forth when she feels for it.  And listening and being there...

Last but not least... This has been brewing under the hood for good time.   I think I am approaching the point of "not standing still", maybe the point of "not standing at all"...  I do notice that I've got some new dreams, and they do not include STBXW anymore.  The door is still open for her to try a comeback, but like most here have read, possible reconnections are rare and slow and difficult processess. Possibly the only reason I might be interested to put my head into such brutal process would be kids/family.   But not for love, as I think I've finally learned to love her from the distance.  But umm, this decision needs bit more time to bake.

Alvin.

[Thunder]

Yes Alvin moving costs are very high, but what else are you going to do?  Maybe check out more than one mover to get the lowest price for you.  During this Pandemic companies are hurting for business.

If your W wants to rethink this alimony thing, let her talk with a lawyer to get information.  Most offer a free consultations.
They will enlighten her to what this all involves.  It may not be the best for her but let her see her options clearly and what it will mean for her and the kids.  She isn't going to believe you.

Alvin don't just reach an agreement that plays good for you, reach one that is good for both of you and the kids for their future.

Just a warning, as far as the appraisal, most judges or a second party, will need to see a few appraisals and will decide on an amount in between them.  Not just one from one party.

Alvin you are still pretty early into her crisis.

I know the feeling of standing, then not standing...back and forth.  We cycle too.

I know you do not like advise but I would just suggest take you time with some of this stuff before you make any real life decisions.  You have time.
Be kind and try to work with her, she will remember that.  She will remember your fairness, maybe not now but in the future.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi Thunder,

And thanks.

Moving costs.... Actually I went service of quality first, not looking for lowest price. Money is something I can always make more (I hope ).  But still, it's pricey.

Alimony deal...that's pretty much the advice I gave to her: seek knowledge. But I want her to have solid opinion by end of week which way things roll. No point of us meeting if it turns into "I need more info/I don't know" (different set of officials for that). And IMHO it is essential she knows that this is one of those issues where I have firm goals and boundaries (with consequences) on number of levels. Not really my issue if she hasn't done her part of homework.

Appraisal...let's see what way things roll. As there's not much past sales data nor established market, this is to large extend a how long is a piece of string question.

Re, standing, cycling, timelines.... I know it is early for her crisis. But this is more about me stepping out of the MLC wheel as part of my own healing. We are what we focus and think about, and I choose to step out of the crisis or post-crisis mode and resume normalcy in my life. She knows where to find me if interested, and I'm leaving the door for reconnection open permanently (but not awaiting anything)... But I do feel I have walked my path, and it is time for me to focus on other things in life once all the loose ends are finished. Hopefully by end of 2020....

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Just a quick update...  The past 10+ days have been one crazy rollercoaster ride.

The alimoney and parenting deal... it kind of fell apart and then it got back together.... yikes. It was totally crazy, and I went both high and low during those days.   The childrens wellfare worker wanted to make sure STBXW understands what she is agreeing with, which she didn't really. And the whole thing was torn open and this worker started proposing her own "more traditional model"...  But I stood my ground, argumented my views properly with additional "I'm prepared to leave the matter in hands of court", and eventually (after interviewing the kids etc) both parties agreed that the plan I was suggesting was more than fair and generous...But it was really WTF-moment.   I genuinely doubt that if I was a mother I would have received same kind of scrutiny. 

Anyway, we did hold three family meetings over these topics and were able to solve these things all on our own. It was not always nice or comfortable, but at least there was lots of honest and straight talk, and kids now understand more than thoroughly how the parenting and alimoney system works. Eventually G19 had a private talk with STBXW, and it turned out she was simply agreeing to social workers view to "please her". She just was not able to say it out aloud. Sigh.

All in all I'm not abandoning my kids financially (or otherwise).  For me the "no alimoney" just means that I don't have "official schedule" that I have to follow. Now I can focus more on the aspect of "giving as a gift/support" to people I love whenever I feel like.  Anyway, tomorrow morning we are signing the deal on both parenting and "no alimoney" (unless some new hardball emerges from thin air). 

Division of assets .... is almost completed.  The only thing missing is the signature, which will be done in two days.... STBXW has secured the mortgage, she is buying me out.  So financially speaking I'm on very firm ground.  Heck, I'm actually doing well.   For the first time in my adult life I am about to have way more money than I could imagine using (but I'm sure it will be solved easily, LOL)...  And I got some really nice items (art etc design pieces) in exchange of some machinery I have zero use in the city.  So I definitely feel like I'm on the winning team.

Packing stuff and moving... almost completed, just few random items here and there remaining.  Though moving company will take care of the practicalities and all the heavy lifting, , all the kids are joining the process of giving birth to our new home.  They are travelling with me to spend first 5 days there.

Have been saying godbyes to friends and acquintances.   Possibly the saddest part remaining....

On the other hand I'm already starting to build up new social life. It is... interesting.   Amazing. Funny.... what comes out of it all... I really don't know.  But at least I'm having a blast.

So much other stuff as well... from kids going to school, having talks with me, covid precautions etc etc.   But right now it feels that everything is falling into their proper place.  Life's beginning to feel good once again.

One piece at a time...

Alvin.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I genuinely doubt that if I was a mother I would have received same kind of scrutiny.

Nope, whenever an outsider becomes involved, they like to shake the tree to see if any apples remain. Just be thankful you are not in California or worse yet, New Jersey. From what I have read on Watcher's case, they would have made you assume the mortgage and let your MLCer stay there for free and still have her on the title to the house. Yikes!

Glad you are sorting things out. When everything is signed and done, you can take a deep sigh. One major road crossed. Now on to the fun filled life of parenting with an unhinged MLCer.

High Five!

Ready

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling.... Second day on new home. Still smiling very happily. No regrets.

Alvin.

[Thunder]

I'm glad you're happy Alvin. Nice to end things like that.

Hope your kids like your new place.   

[AlvinTheMaker]

I'm glad you're happy Alvin. Nice to end things like that.

...and also nice to begin new things like that. For better or worse I've got a date coming up. This is  one of those boy meets a girl by accident stories. Or maybe it was her hitting routine, LOL...but two complete strangers bumbed into each other, started talking, found out mutual ground (her living close to my new home, both recovering from end of long marriage, same hobbies etc), exchanged  contact details, chatted bit more, and then agreed to go on date (beach, some hot choco, our cameras) once I'm all settled in.... Needless to say, she looks and feels like a really nice gal   and I don't think we'd be going out if there wasn't some interest on her side as well ...  In this era of tinder etc it's nice to see that things can happen organic...and it was so easy, all natural... And I know, keep expectations low and just have some fun time (with acknowledgement that both of us have been through some rough times).

Hope your kids like your new place.   

So far so good ,😊

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling.... a quick update...

So far all's well in this new home of mine.

All the moving boxes....empty. Hooray😀 Still some stuff floating around looking for permanent position, but there's definitely order in chaos.

Work....well, it's been more chaotic. The person who was supposed to mentor me for the initial week or two had their baby born few weeks early. So off to deep end of the pool I had to jump all alone. Two of my closest co-workers are really nice and knowledgeable folks, getting to know them better each day. My boss....I guess you could say she's the usual boss, with ups and downs.

STBXW...Apart of some mail and kids related issues we have zero contact. It's all very official. And it's good this way. She's no longer renting my head space.

Kids...all okey except of S6 having a runny nose (no covid). I've been keeping daily contact with them all.

Paperwork....dragging. And it's not about the STBXW or me, it's the system. Sigh.

This gal ...there's definitely chemistry between us. And mutual pursuing (without this experience I likely would not had realized it, but now it's sticking out like a beacon)   She's making me laugh and smile  (and vice versa), and it feels great. Where this all ends up, too soon to tell. But this is a nice stage.

Standing or not... Let's say I'm letting life take me where it is taking.

Alvin.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Glad you stopped by and gave us an update. Moving is an experience all of it own. It's hard to believe that I have been in this home now for almost  two and a half years. Time does fly.

Kids...all okey except of S6 having a runny nose (no covid). I've been keeping daily contact with them all.

Glad to hear they are doing well.

She's making me laugh and smile  (and vice versa), and it feels great. Where this all ends up, too soon to tell. But this is a nice stage.

Yes, it is nice that someone sees you and responds to you in a positive manner. It's like being sick for a long time and suddenly realizing you feel well and this is what feeling well is all about.

Enjoy your weekend, keep focused on you and your family.

(((((Ready)))))

[AlvinTheMaker]

Oh boy, another week has vanished into thin air..

Life... Lots of fun. Enjoying the me time, cooking, photographing, decorating,...

Work... Busy. Challenging. But fun...

STBXW... Down with flue. Of course I feel a bit of worry how she manages kids and herself, but she'll make it. Actions have consequences and this is one.

Kids.... Over the flue and back to normal regime 😄

This gal.... We're going on cosplay date tomorrow night...The word boyfriend was brought up by her. And that this could be bit more serious than casual friendship.And I agreed... still taking it slowly. Enjoying this moment

Alvin.

[Thunder]

It's good to hear you are enjoying life, Alvin.

I'm not sure what a cosplay date is.  Is that with your kids?  Does she have kids?

You sound like you have gotten over your wife pretty fast, Alvin.  I have to say that worries me just a bit.

You loved her so much and I know a certain amount of grieving is normal.
Well maybe just take things slow.  I hope this woman likes your kids and can share your love for them, especially your young 6 year old who is a big part of your life.

Otherwise carry on...   

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi thunder,

Cosplay - basically costume play. A kind of masquerade  It could involve kids (as some are family events) or not (as some are not). I think good ole Thunder might enjoy being in one.

Grief... I did a lot of my work last winter. I've had plenty of time to work through this.

Does she have kids....yes, three kids, all of them on close/identical age range as S6 (and split parenting). And both of us are putting the kids on priority (not just words, but actions. I have put her on hold because of kids, and vice versa. So she has got priorities right on this stage).

And yes.Im taking it slow... As I know this is just the early stages of crush, and neither does not genuinely know each other well enough, and will not in long time (kids and work slowing down).. But the potential is there.  Chemistry, personal traits, thinking....so far all of them are thumbs up.

And I know hard topics will come up too (we have touched a bit of our pasts).

But ummmm.... This can swing anyway. But right now this is good. And taking it slow is even better.

Alvin

[Thunder]

Ok, all sounds good Alvin.

Enjoy your party!   

[AlvinTheMaker]

Howdy all,

though I'd do bit of update as it's been a while. All is well and okey.  Just been busy with life, work, dating, and now starting out a new relationship

Life... still working out things large and small.  And enjoying and embracing all of it.  Possibly one of the biggest benefits of going through MCL is that I can see what are things I can influence and what I cannot, and unlike many others I'm not running around like headless chicken when things go unplanned. It is all about choices you do for you and finding the right balance, and it is not the end of world to fail and try again at times.  Maybe it would be good to say  that though busy I'm enjoying inner serenity.

Financially speaking I'm all clear, possibly even wealthy. I've been putting some of the unexpected wealth back to kids and plan to keep on doing so.  I haven't forgotten myself neither - I did buy a massively big smart tv, new sofa's, some clothes etc.  So I've been a real sinner with money, LOL.   Possibly the thing that has surprised me most is that even with all the money rebuilding home is such a slow process. The further I go building my home and life, the better I understand how many small things there are that I lost and that need addressing.  No doubt it will take a year or two before life will be back to "completely normal".

I've been in occasional contact with XW. Zero relationship talks, just business about parenting etc.  She's definitely trying to be a good parent and is finding her own way out of it all.   Not so surprisingly, I still occasionally think of her, but I also accept realities of life.  Its all very similar to what you'd feel a year or two after somebody important passed away. Being grateful of of what was and all the good memories, but moving on. I wish her nothing but good.

Kids are doing all okey.  They have adopted the concept and reality of two homes really well.  And life is moving steadily for them now.   I'm still keeping up with daily contact as I feel it is important for them as well as for me.  Otherwise we are keeping up with parenting plan (though very likely COVID restrictions will influence Christmas plans).

Dating...   well, let's say it's been a process.  Good dates, bad dates, anything in between of it....  The upside is that good guys seem to have somewhat unlimited supply of dates if your head (and body) is even somewhat okey.  And it is also downside, the supply can be so overwhelming (especially those seeking nothing but casual sex). Don't ask how many dates I had as I ultimately stopped keeping track and went with the flow... But going out, seeing other people en masse taught me a number of things of myself. Of that I am good enough the way I am.  Of that my own fears (of inadequacy) were the biggest thing that kept me from approaching people who likely are best match with me.  Of that it is okey to decline and say that some person is not a good fit or does not feel right.  Of that seeing others through grace goes a long way.

For past month I've been dating exclusively ms.H.  And it is serious... She's warmhearded, fun, smart, tall drop-dead-corgeous blonde (just the type XW told I should marry, LOL) who shares a lot of values and common interests with me. She too has been through a lot, and walked through all of it, growing and healing. So we get, love and support each other in a way that feels "right"...     Though it's still "early" I'm very positive that I have found the future mrs. Alvin    (you just know when you know, and I know msH shares the same feeling)

As uncanny as it is....   I feel grateful of entiere MLC experience, despite going through some really bad times.  It made the person who I am now.

 I hope this gives hopes to all newbies and old timers out there.

Alvin.

P.S.  I really should catch up with Standing, Joy, Courage, Benson, mego and few others to see how you're all doing.   

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

We are all doing fine. Some ups and downs as usual. Glad to hear that you are doing well. It will be a process for both of you. I am glad the financials are not straining you. My first year was a struggle but now I am in a much better place.

You will find the dating scene interesting and I am glad you seem to have found someone special. Just take your time and go slow. No need to rush and take the time to heal. You are building a different life and sometimes in the rush to complete the job, you may overlook important things.

Enjoy your day and keep moving forward,

(((((Ready))))))

[PJ Ames]

Good to hear from you Alvin. Glad the financials have worked out well. Like Ready, I struggled at first. But I'm now in a better place than I've ever been. Hard to believe.

I've had similar observations of the dating scene. Unfortunately, I think good men are in short supply. A man who is self-aware, a good Dad, and who generally has his act together is pretty rare. Sorry ladies. After what you've been through, it has to feel pretty validating to be in demand.When a kind, beautiful and intelligent woman likes you, it really makes you feel good about yourself, doesn't it?

I'll agree with Ready about going slow. I didn't and I regret it now.  I had a four-month relationship with a very lovely professor not long after my divorce was final. I thought I was much further along in my healing than I actually was and I totally bungled it. I feel bad about it now.

But beyond moving slow, I would encourage you to move reflectively. Take the time at each stage of the relationship to reflect on yourself, what you've learned, the relationship and where you are in the healing process. Not trying to take the fun out of your new relationship, just hoping you avoid the mistakes I made! Congrats on finding Ms. H. I'm in a similar situation and I'm really happy for you.

To life!

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks Ready and PJ.

Importance of taking it slow is something both of us acknowledge.  As is importance of reflecting.  We share and talk a lot of what is happening in our lifes, as well as within us.  It is kind of hard to explain the difference as  it is oh so familiar but yet oh so different on nyances on what I've experienced before.  There is a sense of deep respect, gratefulness and understanding that maybe never was there before.  I do understand that I am a different man because of what happened, and she acknowledges she is different woman what has happened in her life.  And we honor the lessons learned.  Not out of fear but out of respect and love towards ourself and each other. 

Today ms.H was helping me wrap gifts for the kids ,and it felt so right to look at her and think of her becoming part of my family and future xmas'es.  One small step at a time, enjoying of what is and embracing the joint adventure...

Alvin. 

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am really glad you are doing well and your thoughts, feelings, and actions are positive.

Its nice to be wanted, to be appreciated,  to have a true friend. 

After all you have been through, you are going to have a truly special holiday!

(((((Ready)))))

[Standing Strong]

Hey Alvin!!

Good to see you 

Following along (as always) 

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

Time for a bit of journaling...

End of 2020 was one big joyride of ups and downs, but I've been following one of the important lessons learned during divorce: there are things you control and things you don't.  Don't resist the change on things you cannot control, but instead embrace the change and ride the wave on things you do control.  And it's brought number of good things into my life. 

I lost my flat.  Ouch... The good news is that I found a new one somewhat immediately.  The cost of two moves within a year is more than enough to make me grind my teeth.    But a bigger flat (with separate room for the kids) with MUCH better view (I can watch the sunrise over ocean every morning)...  I'm lost for words for what I got.

I lost my job (thanks to COVID).  Ouch.... The good news is that losing my job allowed me to focus on making the move on such fast pace. And it allowed me to fall back to running  my own business (once again) full time. It may mean bit less money short term, but OTOH I have no doubts I would not make it financially.

And last but not least.... ms.H moved in with me to our new home.....  Or as the romans would say Alea iacta est ("the die is cast").  I think PJ wrote it so well in his story

But opening the door to her means closing the door to xw. This shouldn't really be so hard. I mean, she divorced me a year and half ago, has shown no signs of wanting me back and I'm 5 years post-BD. But it does still feel sad and kind of weird to abandon the last thread of hope for reconciliation. Up until this Fall, I probably would have taken xw back if she would have had some road-to-Damascus moment. Even if I was dating someone, the door to my xw was open from my side. But I'm making my own choices and I've chosen to close the door on my side.

XW did have her chance of working for our marriage.... but she chose not to. And now I have made the decision to embrace another kind of future.  Where this road leads me into time will tell.   

Alvin.

[Standing Strong]

Hey Alvin!!

Wow, a whole world of change. 

You sound really good, happy for ya man!!

-SS

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I lost my flat.  Ouch... The good news is that I found a new one somewhat immediately.  The cost of two moves within a year is more than enough to make me grind my teeth.    But a bigger flat (with separate room for the kids) with MUCH better view (I can watch the sunrise over ocean every morning)...  I'm lost for words for what I got.

Well, I would have you beat as I get to watch the Disneyland fireworks every night, but unfortunately Covid has closed it down since last March. Honestly, the fireworks are not even close.  View of the ocean is awesome, I'm just jealous, that's all. LOL

And last but not least.... ms.H moved in with me to our new home..... 

Nice, I only hope the best for you two as a couple.

Keep moving forward,

((((Ready)))))

[PJ Ames]

Dude! Congrats. What a roller coaster of a year. I hope you're able to take some time to reflect on things and process all the changes. Even positive changes are stressful.

Hope all goes well with Ms. H.

Insanely jealous of your new place. Especially as I'm looking out at the frozen tundra of Northern Siberia. I mean the Midwest. If things don't work out with Ms. H, can I move in with you? j/k

To life!

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks guys.   The view from my window is really awesome (frozen as I live way up north - but still quite amazing).

Standing did sent me a PM asking one very essential question  "Total life change, amazing. Any thoughts looking back at it all?"

Well.... Lots of thoughts. There's been so many changes that I will likely keep pondering them for the next 3-6 months.

For starters a new relationship gives the possibility to (re-)review what was good/bad in previous relationship because of my own behaviour.   A new relationship is always a new relationships, but there also some 'same old' situations and patterns (part of everyday life, sharing homechores etc). I can much more easily see "that behaviour was because of me" and "that behaviour was because of XW" because there is now a totally new player on the field who plays differently.  This moment is a good possibility to breathe for a while and ponder whether or not some things that previously escaped my radar are worth keeping or changing. 

This sitch also raises the possibility to review the quality of previous relationship in new light.... All in all I would say that my relationship with XW was not  a bad one.  Sure it did have some issues, but I do believe that every interpersonal relationship always has got some room for improvement.  No doubt I was very happy with XW before BD, but apparently she was not feeling the same way.  And thus I crashed high and fast when she droppend the bomb.... Maybe, just maybe, if I had been way less anxious straight after BD (easier said than done), allowed XW to keep doing what her heart desired, then  our story might have followed another kind of path. But that ship has sailed off long time since.

I've had lots of deep talks with ms.H.  Her personal history reflects the path of MLCr recovered to extend that at times I do silently ponder whether or not she's been through MLC or MLT despite her young age. She had very troubled childhood  and she did run away from it in ways I could not have even imagine. Keeping it all within her, hidden, until a major crisis at her workplace pushed her deep into her personal crisis when she hit thirty.  This was followed by years of withdrawal during which her then fiancee did cheat and run off,  pushing her further into abyss with heavy drinking, failed relationships (broken attracts broken) etc. All of that took 8 long years of her life to progress (and the change started within herself as she hit the bottom- she started reading proper books, going into therapy etc), and only for the last two years she's been "okey" and rebuilding her life one piece at a time... What can one say, life happens to all of us, and each of has got unique ability to deal with the $h!te hitting the fan.

The quote (by PJ) I shared few posts up highlights one important demon .... Ms. H was (and to some extend still is) feeling fear that XW would recover, apologize and I would run back into her arms. Maybe she does recognize some of her own story of what I've told about XW (they are very much alike in number of ways). For myself the fact that we moved in together was closing that door.  I have chosen ms.H as my partner and will stick to that choice unless she otherwise decides some day.  Sure,  It is hard to let go and move on over something that was for decades and something you fought hard for. But I (as well as ms.H) do give myself the chance to both mourn/grief and rejoice of what was.   Both of us have got a past life, and it is okey to talk about it, and feel over it. ... I've talked with XW a couple of times in recent months.  Strictly official business where she's said "everything is okey" (for example her sister bought her brand new car so she can drive the kids hereAndThere etc)...  One night I phoned to S5 and XW had been reading a bedtime story to him. Throughout the whole talk she kept there,  holding S5 on her lap, silent, her eyes closed.  Maybe she felt tired and was resting; maybe she was listening to my voice and thinking what could have been. IDK but it left me pondering. Anyway, I wished both of them (and other kids) a good night...   And during Valentine's I did send a shared (very neutral) greeting to kids and XW, and she replied with more traditional heart-greeting to all of us....   All in all my only remaining goal with XW is to create working human relationship (preferrably friendly-one) with mother of my children.  But it is a long road ahead.

Likely I am forgetting a lot of things, but these were on top of the list right now.

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Possibly bit off-topic, but here's a study that caught my radar through local news:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-27/parents-of-teenage-daughters-more-likely-to-divorce-study/8992744
In nutshell.... Parents of teenage daughters are more likely to divorce. They studied more than 2 million marriages in the Netherlands over 10 years.  The key finding is that parents with teenage daughters face 5 per cent higher risks of divorce than parents with teenage sons, and the effect peaks at age 15, when the risk faced by parents with daughters is almost 10 per cent higher than the risk faced by parents with sons.

A local family researcher pushed this into local news by proposing a thesis (and I apologize for poor translation of this)...   "Teenage years are rough for many parents, and dealing with teenage daughter is especially rough for mother. We know that females often times (70-80%) initiate the divorce process, so maybe these two are connected.  When children enter teenage years,  many parents are often times are in middle of so called midlife crisis that makes them evaluate their choises and life so far in  a way that may influence decision to file for divorce".

To be honest... I never thought that sex of a child could contribute into divorce or crisis....  The way human mind works is really

Other stuff... I'm now officially two years from BD.... To large degree this feels like I have felt a year or two after a person I have cared for has passed away. I know it is the anniversary, and I feel fading faint echoes of grief. But I'm good the way I am. And life's good.  There is lots to be grateful. 

Alvin

[OffRoad]

"Teenage years are rough for many parents, and dealing with teenage daughter is especially rough for mother. We know that females often times (70-80%) initiate the divorce process, so maybe these two are connected.  When children enter teenage years,  many parents are often times are in middle of so called midlife crisis that makes them evaluate their choises and life so far in  a way that may influence decision to file for divorce".

It was interesting, but this really is anecdotal regarding teenage daughters being "rough on the mother" (had a teenage daughter, not remotely rough on me) and the part about females more often initiating the divorce may only have to do with being forced into initiating the divorce for their own health or safety. How many MLC men do we have here who gaslighted, lied, cheated, etc and never filed for divorce? The average woman would file for divorce if she were cheated on. (People here are not the average) IMO, trying to connect those two has no basis in facts at all. Kind of a weird extrapolation.

[Standing Strong]

That's an interesting suggestion.... "Teenage girls are especially difficult on mothers".
Is this right? Why?

I know 1st hand it can be difficult with teenage sons and fathers, but I haven't seen the opposite side of the coin.
The sons and fathers is easy to explain and understand....... young men becoming independent as young men do and fathers remaining dominant in their castle. The sons grow and leave, which is the natural way of things.

What is this dynamic with moms and daughters? I haven't witnessed this, very interesting idea.

The 80% of divorces being filed by women however is spot on, and not something which is talked about in detail. I don't (personally) believe this is just due to "women file when they are cheated on". I would actually think that men would be much more likely to file when cheated on. Maybe I could believe that hurting the children by abandonment would motivate a larger percentage of women to file, but that doesn't come close to explaining the filing numbers.
What I have noticed is that women are much more likely to file when they stray (MLC or not), and men are more likely to not file when they stray (MLC or not). To me, this is a much more likely explanation for the disparity of filing percentages. If 50% of 1st marriages end in D........ and of those total D's around 80% are women and 20% are men....... and we know that upward of 50% of spouses cheat at some point in the M....... and women are very likely to file when they find someone else but men don't...... we're really darn close to explaining the bulk of filings. The rest can be chalked up to abuse or whatever other reason people D.

This aspect of moms and daughters is very curious to me in the area of MLC. I see this in my MLC'er. How much is passed from one generation to another via damage? How much is learned behavior? People make fun of "Mommy and Daddy issues" but it's a real thing (sadly).

Very interesting topic.

-SS 

[AlvinTheMaker]

Re, mothers and teenage daughters....  As father of 4 girls I can say is that XW had had some really rough years with G18 before the ball started rolling.  SAnd considering that my relationship with G19 has always been closer than what XW has been able to create then it may add some more salt to system.  Likely there are as many stories as there mothers/daughters/families.  It is all up to how a person frames the events internally and what kind of expectations they put on themselves. As most here know most of that roots from "mommy and daddy issues" of the past.

Re, the cause for higher divorce rating between sexes.... One of the more interesting theories I have heard about this is that women are more in touch with their emotional misery (not happy in relationship), and as they are in real emotional pain they seek the blind way out - which in modern society equals divorce (because many women are financially able to do so) or affair down (because the risk of such behaviour is lesser than say 50-100 years back).   Of course the proper solution for this would be to focus with inner self and marriage/relationship - but would a person on the verge of personal suffering and crisis would be interested of as such, LOL.

Alvin.

[Thunder]

Hi Alvin and Standing, I have been on this MLC board since 2013 (My BD was on 2011)

Yikes it's been 10 years. 

It may be true that more women file than men do but from what I have witnessed you have to look at why.  It could be that most women who filed for divorce did it for financial reasons, or custody reasons.
Probably 7 out of 10 men make more money than their wives.  So it is because they can not live on what they make without court ordered support.

When some of these MLCer's go into their crisis they DO want out but they selfishly do not want to be responsible for paying alimony or for child support for their kids.
They just want to leave and take care of themselves and possibly their ow's.

After 20 some years with these spouses, they think they can just walk away free of any obligations to their family.  That is not how the courts look at it, and they shouldn't.

Ok leave and start a new life with someone else, but understand you can not leave your family struggling because of your choices.

Sadly a break up of a family puts both people in a worst financial situation because you can not take two combined incomes and split them into two households and expect anyone to live as they did.
But no one should come out better than the other one.

Sorry this has nothing to do with having girls over boys but it just stuck a nerve with me.  Not personally, my XH was more than willing to a decent, fair settlement, but that is not always the case with these selfish MLCer's, male or female.

Some need to have their feet held to the fire to be made to do the right thing.

[Zion]

I don’t think the person that files is always the person that wants the divorce in the first place. Some people are forced to by the other person for various reasons. Irreconcilable Differences tells little.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I don’t think the person that files is always the person that wants the divorce in the first place. Some people are forced to by the other person for various reasons. Irreconcilable Differences tells little.

Interesting fact that when men and women are in "non-marital" relationships the break up rate is approximately 50/50. Women initiate divorce about 66% of the time and this is not too much different from the 1800's when women initiated 60% of the filings (people who initiate the divorce are the plaintiffs in the US).

So why such a difference between marriage and other relationships? The answer is complicated and many reasons factor into the equation. One major factor is the lack of communication regarding roles and expectations of the married couple. (Most divorces are filed either the first two years of the marriage and the other point being years five through eight). Lots of conflicting data on "average" marriage.

Some women feel that they are the emotional support for the entire relationship and are burdened with most of the work. As their needs go unmet, they build a lot of resentment towards the husband and once the wall of resentment is too high to cross, there is little the man can do to fix the issue. Men typically use the word divorce as a warning sign, women use the word divorce because they are done. Once again, failure to communicate is a vital key. Women expect their husbands to "know" what they want. Men are in their own world thinking all is well.

Once again, oversimplification of a complex issue is something we need to avoid. Marriage itself is not an equal partnership and women are more apt to report that they feel controlled in the marriage. On the other hand, men feel threatened if their spouse makes more than them and this leads to conflict and divorce-often initiated by the woman.

I don't like divorce and I am a strong proponent of marriage, but until we focus and allocate resources on how to improve, sustain, and build strong marriages, we are going to get the same results. That's not a blame game, just an understanding that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

Just my opinion,

((((Ready))))

[AlvinTheMaker]

Time for quick monthly update....

XW / shared parenting...   XW's grandmother, and great-grandmother of our children passed away few weeks back. I did not receive any kind of information from XW, but G19 shared me  the news of her passing few days later.  I did express my condolences to XW and her family through WhatsApp message - zero acknowledgement from any of them.  Because of Covid I wasn't expecting an invitation to funeral (or anything as such) but it's really odd how MLC and divorce can destroy what was once a functional family bond. Her grandmother was a good person and we shared some good moments. I did run my own private silent moment to pay respect for her....   As there are plenty of stories how it takes some kind of event to push MLCr onwards in life, it wil be interesting to see what kind of effect this will have on XW.  I just hope and pray that someday she will find a way to step out of the shell she's wearing. Doing shared parenting with a person who does not share things like this is really hard as eventually the base of communication falls to what kids tell me (and how much I poke and listen to them sharing their worries). The only thing I know is that when someone of my close family dies I'll do things differently.

As funny sidenote, XW rejected my goodwill to pay some taxes over the 'old family home' (because the way the system works, I was legally listed co-owner of our family estate when the tax-season changed).  Instead she fiercely demanded that I let her pay taxes for both of us   Go figure what it's all about, but I'm not objecting     

Kids... are doing all okey apart of G18.  She did graduate with honors but is once again/still going through some mental health issues.   I wish she was closer to me so I could look after and assist if possible, but I do understand that eventually she needs to fight her own batles.  All I can do is listen and be part of her life..... The younger kids did spend a week with me and ms.H in the beginning of month, and are coming for another week on the end of this month.  It is interesting to follow along the process of them all getting acquinted with each other. So far there is (understandably) a lot of shyness on all sides as this is all new situation.

Me and ms.H....  Still doing great   We've been having lots of good talks, long walks and enjoyable moments together... .No doubt she's still dealing with some demons of her past, but maybe it's the same with all of us.  The silver lining of doing all the self-growth and healing related to MLC/LBS/divorce is learning to move through life with grace and gratitude, towards self and others.  It is a great gift that keeps on giving as life is a journey of ups and downs, and instead of trying to change those ups and downs all you can change is your perspective into them.  I'm definitely in peace with myself and enjoing life as is. 

Alvin.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Glad all is well with you and the younger ones.

XW / shared parenting...   XW's grandmother, and great-grandmother of our children passed away few weeks back. I did not receive any kind of information from XW, but G19 shared me  the news of her passing few days later.  I did express my condolences to XW and her family through WhatsApp message - zero acknowledgement from any of them.  Because of Covid I wasn't expecting an invitation to funeral (or anything as such) but it's really odd how MLC and divorce can destroy what was once a functional family bond.

Well, welcome to the world of divorce. Now, I have some situations where the exes and former families do get along, but that is not the norm. You also have to consider the perceptions and stories being told about you. I can still hear your ex talking, "Alvin divorced me so he can move in with his honey. He has even introduced our children to the ho and now he is playing like we are all one happy family." My ex had an affair, my ex flew off to be with her OM, and she filed for divorce. Yet, she was the victim through all of this. There are some members of her family that won't even talk to me and think I am right there with Godzilla. Their loss, not mine.

Kids... are doing all okey apart of G18.  She did graduate with honors but is once again/still going through some mental health issues.   I wish she was closer to me so I could look after and assist if possible, but I do understand that eventually she needs to fight her own batles.  All I can do is listen and be part of her life.....

I have a couple of concerns here. How does one who cannot think rationally fight her own battles? The last time I checked, a person with a broken leg still gets crutches. Finally, she is very young and has not still fully matured into an adult. My advice is to be a very strong advocate for her now because some issues can turn into many issues quickly.

Just my opinion and I am glad everything else is going well,

(((((Ready))))

[gman242]

Some women feel that they are the emotional support for the entire relationship and are burdened with most of the work. As their needs go unmet, they build a lot of resentment towards the husband and once the wall of resentment is too high to cross, there is little the man can do to fix the issue. Men typically use the word divorce as a warning sign, women use the word divorce because they are done. Once again, failure to communicate is a vital key. Women expect their husbands to "know" what they want. Men are in their own world thinking all is well.

Having gone through this and suddenly seen it everywhere, I have to kinda agree, but mainly disagree. I think what happens to women is, in the nutshell version, as young girls they are expected to be the second mom in the family, sometimes even taking care of their own mom who may have drug and alcohol problems. So they grow up being almost the primary caregiver in the family and the first thing they do when the grow up is go off and start their family. At that point though, they're either uncapable of accepting love and support or they just don't see it, because they never experienced it growing up.

Speaking for myself, I put my xw on a pedestal and there wasn't anything I wouldn't have done for her and I bet a lot of guys that were in my situation did the same thing, which may not have been a good thing as it kept the blinders pretty firmly in place. I digress, but it's quite confusing when these women run away from great guys only to start all over, somewhere else.

I think this is why: they've been unfairly burdened their whole lives by their own families and it doesn't matter how good of a husband / father / guy he is, the woman has it built up in her head that she's the victim to the point that nothing is going to convince her otherwise that her contribution, sacrifice and suffering was greater than that of her husband. That's probably the first thing everyone tells the OP.. how bad they have it.

Like I said, once I went through it I saw it everywhere, however, it's also something men don't talk about openly. Facebook is full of posts from women about "girls.. you know how guys always", but none are from guys who went to work, came home, turned over his paycheck to his wife, never had time for his own hobbies or friends, always spent time with his kids and his wife dumped him because he was a "loser".

Anyway.. just for the sake of friendly conversation, I wouldn't assume a woman's needs were unmet. It happens, but if a woman is mature and confident, I think the chances are she either waits until the kids graduate high school before getting a divorce or it's more of what we would call a walk away spouse and they wouldn't jump right into another relationship while they were still living with their family.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Anyway.. just for the sake of friendly conversation, I wouldn't assume a woman's needs were unmet.

Just to let you know, the statement I posted was in regards to why women file more than men do. The results are research based upon perceptions not realities. Most marriages fail very early in the relationship. We can't filter all relationships through the lens of MLC.

the woman has it built up in her head that she's the victim to the point that nothing is going to convince her otherwise that her contribution, sacrifice and suffering was greater than that of her husband. That's probably the first thing everyone tells the OP.. how bad they have it.

I couldn't agree with you more. Just as women build up in their heads that they are the victim, so do the men. One thing I have found is that few ever admit to having an affair without some form of justification. As I posted on this thread, if you talk to some members of her family, I am the worst possible guy that ever lived. Their realities built upon her story.

but none are from guys who went to work, came home, turned over his paycheck to his wife, never had time for his own hobbies or friends, always spent time with his kids and his wife dumped him because he was a "loser".

Been there, done that. Yet, in the end, my ex lost this "loser" and I don't see her approaching Nirvana anytime soon.

Great conversation and good to hear from you gman,

((((Ready))))

[Standing Strong]

Hey Alvin,

Good to see you, and that everything is going well 

Hard to imagine what you're describing.... the loss of a functional family unit (bonds that is). It must be very jarring at times.
Sure sounds like you're doing great, that makes me very happy. The good people should come up in a good place when all is said and done.

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

I've been mostly a quiet lurker as not much has happened. Until yesterday..... XW messaged me.  She wanted to acknowledge me that she had transferred a hefty amount of money into my account  earlier in the day    After some back and forth messages it turned out she believed that some assets were undivided, and she should pay me 'my half. So I took a deep breath and told her all of it had been taken into account during official division of assets, and thus I'm gonna transfer the money back to her.... I was baffled by the event. Something as such would not have occurred to me.  Go figure what she was thinking, if anything.

Mother's Day is just around the corner, and I have prepped the kids about the importance of being there for XW. So far it seems everyone but G18 will gather up to celebrate with XW.  I'm bit so-and-so with whether to greet XW a happy mothers's day or not, might just give kids some money to buy ice cream etc. for the XW...   Within couple of weeks our 'parenting shifts' will rotate, and I'll become the 'main parent' for the summer period.  I'm definitely looking forward to it, as I have missed having my kids around full time for extended periods.

The deeper I continue walking into path of personal growth, the better I am beginning to understand the 'big picture'.   The image of the road I have walked,  and the foundations  that are/were there all the time, but which I was blind to see during the crisis/chaos XW's words pushed me into.   Though walking from A to B to C would have been the shortest route out of this whole thing, it would not have made me grow the same way as taking hundreds of baby steps and explorations did.  There's a lot of truth in you can't run before you learn to walk;  and to walk you must learn to crawl first.   That is what coming out of crisis and chaos is all about...  I feel more than fortunate that I've found inner peace and solitude from the stoatic principles:  become best version of you, focus on things you control, and think before you act.  It's a lot like the survival pack all of us get when arriving here.  Like Courage wrote in her story: " while I would certainly never chose this for myself I also wouldn’t ever choose to go back to the person I was before all this happened."  Me too. 

Alvin.

PS. And all is well with me and ms.H.  Our relationship keeps growing deeper and stronger. I guess the fact that we have set a preliminary wedding date (2+ years in the future) says a lot where things are at    Feeling so grateful to have her as part of my life. 

[terra]

Hello Alvin, good to see you are on the upswing and planning nuptials with Ms. H.

From a mother’s perspective, and a once-divorced and twice-jettisoned one, if you are contented with your current partner, please do not personally acknowledge Mother’s Day to your xw. Let it go.

If the kids want to acknowledge xw for this occasion, that’s proper — she’s their mother. Support them but keep your signature and sentiment out of it. I understand this may feel difficult if you previouslyi  or always enjoyed celebrating her motherhood when she was your wife (I enjoyed Father’s Day for both h and xh), but she is no longer your w, and was/is mother only to your kids.

Let the woman in your life be the woman in your life. We are not obliged, when someone leaves us, to honor them on assigned days, or even at all. And in current relationships or even new marriages, we may find that it’s sticky or thorny or problematic if we insist on those honorings or acknowledgments of the importance of the past, or exes.

I don’t think the children are expecting you to still celebrate their mother this way. If it makes sense — even a text or WhatsApp message to her on the day is a step outside what you are cultivating with Ms. H. It’s ok to nurture your current partnership and your direct relationships with your children and to let the past fall away.

It’s good to see you, glad things are going well.

[Standing Strong]

Alvin 

I was wondering how you were. Sounds like life has kept on rolling. 

So glad you're doing so well. Wow, two years and then probably getting hitched again....... life does continue on. 

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

Wow, two years and then probably getting hitched again....... life does continue on. 

So it does

And thanks for chiming in, terra. 

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Time for update...

The parenting turns have rotated once again a full 180 degrees for the summer, and the kids are now spending most of their with me and ms. H.

We just returned from the first 'new family' road trip.  As to be expected it was lots of fun.  I had a possibility to see my father and brother live after 2 years of COVID lockdowns (and first time post divorce). Man, have they both aged a lot (and they did have a good laugh with my beard)....  All in all it seems like the timing of our visit was spot on, as earlier today my father was rushed into hospital because of not feeling good.  Hoping and praying for the best, preparing for the worst.   Whatever happens I am very happy that we were able to make this trip, and ms.H was able to meet my family.

There was a funny XW related 'unmet expectation' on the way back.... The plan was to drop the kids to XW for couple of days (as agreed in parenting deal).  For this to happen we had to make additional detour of 6+ hours .  I was kind of expecting the XW to say hello or thanks or  whatever, but nope.  Zero sign of her. So we just dropped the kids and continued our journey back home.

Life with kids... lets say the much antipicated 'adopting into new home' (once again) issues have raised their ugly head. 

G14 seems pretty happy with everything and is exploring the surroundings like she had lived most of her life here.  She seems quite mature  and ready for flying out of the nest anytime (and she has expressed to both XW and me a wish of her own flat  later this year).

G12 is trying to raise "I don't have anything (=friends) here" card, and would prefer to spend all her time on sofa or bed exploring social media or telly, or reading books.  She's also has had a couple of 'teenager tantrums' and is falling behind of her school assigment for the summer.... All of this was to be expected, and I've made a decision not to push her any way, but instead have been addressing the issues calmly and letting her face the consequences.  In the end what she does or does't do defines how exiting or boring or good  or miserable her life becomes.  It's a bit of tough parenting/love, but in the end her life will not improve until she gets the lesson.  But it's all up to her when she gets it (if at all).

S5 is sailing somewhere in between the G14 and G12. He's trying to gain more telly/mobile time by saying 'there's nothing to do' (following footsteps of G12), but is very much enjoying life by the sea (following footsteps of G14) and various playgrounds.   I've been trying to put quite a lot of time in the groundwork, exploring boundaries for safe outdoor roaming without adult supervision with him.   

Kids have shared some bits of their life at XW. It's not all roses neither....  Not so surprisingly 'single parenting in country house' is no easy task, ands kids are in the fallout zone.  There's lots more homework for everyone these days and basically being at my place feels like a 'holiday' (as I do most of the cooking and cleaning anyway);  large part of the yard has fallen back into natural state as nobody has got the time to take care of it,; and kids spends quite a lot of time either on their own or at some neighbhour while XW is at work / telecommuting.... I think I chose well for not wanting to fight over the old family home.

What makes me very happy is seeing ms.H being involved in the family, and becoming even more involved.  And it's great that apart of G12 my kids are opening up to her.   I acknowledge this is going to be a lengthy process, likely with some back-and-forth movement.  But one small step at a time.

Last but not least I'm in middle of career change.  As some may remember, way back in december I lost my job and fell back into running my own business.   As my current client project is now succesfully ending, I've been prospecting job markets for open positions at my field. I sent out 15 job applications,  A third of them went with no response whatsoever,  another third was rejected pre-interviews, but the rest where I have been able to get my foot in...  I am now offered one 'head of'-level position,  and three other companies have placed a 'claim' that they would like to see me join them....   Having learned that things can change in heartbeat even if they seem/feel fireproof I'm not celebrating anything before I got a job contract in black-n-white signed in front of me.  But so far so good.

Alvin

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Sounds like normal life.

Kids have shared some bits of their life at XW. It's not all roses neither.... 

Of course not. My ex discovered that the single life is hard work and that having a full time job is not all play. Now, I had my adjustments to make when I was on my own, but I had three years of training as I was on my own during her crisis. Just like you, I did the cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids while she hung out on the computer and playing around with OM.

What makes me very happy is seeing ms.H being involved in the family, and becoming even more involved. 

Yes, I didn't have to worry about this one as my children and her children were teens when I started dating again and by the time we married, they were all young adults. We get along well, but it was not the same as being in a situation of raising children together. More now of the advise and let them live with the consequences of their choices.

Last but not least I'm in middle of career change.

Same here. I was out of work for a few months, but I am back to work and everything is going well. You sound good and embracing your life. Take care of the children, enjoy Mrs. H, and live well.

Have an amazing weekend,

(((((Ready))))

[FaithWalker]

Great update A!

[AlvinTheMaker]

Just to share (and record) a very good article:

https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-anger-iceberg/

Alvin

[Standing Strong]

Hey Alvin 

Sounds great!! All kinds of good things happening, I'm thrilled for you 

Life just keeps on trucking!!

-SS

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Very good article. I am reading on trauma and decisions making processes and even when we think we are in our rational state, our emotions still deeply influence our thought process and the decisions we make.

Keep going strong,

(((((Ready)))))

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling....  The ups and downs of 'post-MLC' life  continue.

On the upside...I got hired for the 'head of' position' and will start the work in two weeks time.   Next pit stop is making  through the 6 month probationary period.  If and when this sticks, it is gonna warrant a somewhat major income increase on my part, so it will be interesting to see if XW tries to negotiate a new alimoney deal or will she stick with the 'voluntary' thingie that has served us well so far. 

On the downside... my father's health continues to worsen and I just got news he is transferred into terminal care.  I will be addressing the issue later tonight with the children.   As we are thousand miles away with COVID once again rampaging, there's sadly no way we could physically say farewell. But at leat my fathers brother (also my godfather) can visit by his bed in these final days... I have already acknowledged XW about the news and said kids will need her support too in coming weeks.

One step at a time.
Alvin

[OffRoad]

I am sorry to hear about your father, Alvin. It's hard enough as parents go downhill, but then being unable to visit and/or say goodbye must be extremely difficult. I wish him peace.

RE: Alimony. Do you have something in place that says you need to tell her that you are making more or less money? If not, why would she know, why would she try to renegotiate? Maybe your culture is different, but where I come from,  we don't give specifics of how much money we earn unless it is required for some reason. I had no idea how much my father earned until after my mother died and I was going through paperwork.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks Offroad

Maybe your culture is different, but where I come from,  we don't give specifics of how much money we earn unless it is required for some reason.

No need to share income on this side of big pond  neither, but basically life changes (like job changes, health issues, getting married etc anything that affects persons income in some way) is valid reason to ask official review for the alimony and parenting deal.

The only requirements for review to pass are  1) that it has to be long term change (so I think I'll be well covered at least for the 6month probation period),  and 2) the alimony sum given by 'official calculator' should change by 15% (and they are looking only at calculator sum based on financial data they get from IRS, not what kind of alimony has been paid/agreed in RL).

Theoretically it should always protect the financial wellbeing of kids in case one parents life goes up or down. But in RL the system has got more loopholes than swiss cheese as some people do and try to gamble the system😖

Alvin

[PJ Ames]

Catching up Alvin. You sound like you're living your life, doing grown-up things, and generally being a healthy human. Congrats on making it to the place where you are. Also congrats and good luck with the new job.

So sorry to hear about your father. That's a really tough thing to go through. Take care of yourself through this.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thought I would do a bit if update.... All in all life's good with the usual ups and downs

My new job ... I have recently noticed that when on my way to work and off work, I often times whistle, sing or take few dance steps. Though the days are long and occasionally challenging, I'm really enjoying it.

My father...  For better or worse, no change. All in all I am prepared he will not make past this winter... My brother seems to have adjusted for the same as well.

Ms H.... Suffering from random bouts of stress.  About family, friends, work... Going through XWs MLC was a valuable lesson not to get sucked in with other people's drama. So I listen to ms.H, support and help out when asked,  but otherwise stay out if it. In the end how she deals issues with her sister etc is her thing, and complex enough without me giving any advice/opinions.

Kids.... Doing well.... Except for S7 who broke his phone earlier this week. He was heartbroken.

XW... A funny story.... I ended up fixing her new phone 🤣 But she did not ask for it, but the request came through G16.I guess it says pretty much everything necessary about level of communication she wants to have with me 😅. But maybe some day we could talk like two adults who once knew each other

Alvin.

[Standing Strong]

Alvin!!!

Good to see ya!!

Interesting how LBS prepares you for a healthy R. 
Glad you're doing so well.

-SS

[5hilmerton]

Hello Alvin,
today I was just looking for your silver lining post to share with an LBS.  Glad things are going well with normal life events.

Take care,
5hil

[FaithWalker]

Great update Alvin.

I think it's UM that says something like "one does not travel to hell and back without picking up transferable skills"

[PJ Ames]

Alvin! Thanks for the update. Normal life is a beautiful thing isn't it?

[AlvinTheMaker]

Time for quick update....

It seems my fathers final days are here.  He has stopped eating and drinking, and is travelling somewhere between consiousness and unconsciousnes with my brother and my godfather visiting by his side daily.... What surprises me is that I am very much in peace with it all.  Possibly the only thing that bothers me a bit is that I am not feeling sorrow; I think sorrow too will come someday.   I am just happy my father lived such a good and long life, and was able to be great grandparent for my kids. I will miss talking to him, but he will always be on my heart for a quick talk like my mother.

What worries me bit is that my brother seems unstable and not-so-ready for my fathers passing.  The lessons from making through XW's MLC are once again proving valuable - I know I cannot fix him, but I can give some  guidance and some support (not too much to get dragged in),  the rest will be all up to him.

Kids... I have talked with them few times in past week about upcoming death and funeral.   They seem to be all in peace with it as well. Some were expecting it, for others it was a surprise.  But they seem to understand that life is fragile at old age, and even so life goes on when people pass away.

G19 (now 21) is doing her intership.  She loves the job, but I feel it is placing some kind of toll on mental side as she has started taking afterwork drinks. As she is all grown up I'm not giving her a lecture, but have told her that winde doesn't solve mental pressure or issues.  XW had told the same advice, so at least not all parts of her are fully messed up, LOL.

G18 (now 20) is once again struggling with depression/anxiety.  The good news is that this time she recognized it before the ball started rolling, and is seeing mental health professionals regularly.  She is opening up more and more about the issues and whats going on in her life to me, so that is clearly a positive thing.

Rest of kids... All good, except just got word that COVID has started to spread on G12's (now 14) school.   Time will tell how that goes.

Ms.H.... All's good.   I think I am now internally done of acknowledging her as the new biggest love of my life. It is funny how it is "when you know you know". I knew when I saw her that "she is something", and it is now the same with "she is gonna be biggest love".  Feelings come and go, but I think the purpose of good life is to nourish the feelings you want to shelter, improve and grow.  That is the path I am at.

XW.... The little I do know is coming from the kids. Some of it sounds like the XW I knew, some of it is just so bizarre that I do know she is not fully okey.... But as it doesn't influence the kids in any way, I am more than okey with her living the life the way she wants to, and wish her well on her journey.... XW did express her regrets for my fathers sitch, so it was a nice unexpected bit of news.

As for me....    Life's good. I am happy.  That's pretty much all.

Alvin.

[Standing Strong]

I'm sorry to hear about your father Alvin, and that your brother is having such a hard time with it.

Life has a way of always keeping things new and moving doesn't it?

Glad to hear Ms. H is doing well (as well) 

-SS

[5hilmerton]

Hey Alvin,
very sorry to hear about your father.  Very happy you got to see him one last time. Glad you are finding your happy life.

5hil

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling...

My father passed away peacefully last week... Emotionally I seem to be more than okey with it. Memories of good shared moments bouncing up randomly, and then I feel grateful (and have shed a few happy tears as well). What annoys me a bit is when some expect I should feel deeply sorrowfull; but I guess everyone is echoing their own memories and stuff.

The past week has been long because there has been so much to do with the funeral and paperwork. But all is finally beginning to shape up...
It seems none of my fathers family is coming to the funeral. It is bit of a d!ck move from my uncles - especially as in the beginning many of them showed interest and I did spend some resources on the planning side. Not really sure what triggered them not coming; maybe some were hoping for a big old fashioned family reunion funeral with feasty memorial, and what we organized was plain and small (due to covid, budget, timelines...). Definitely a loss for everyone, but eventually life goes on. On the positive side, I have reconnected with two of my cousins, and did spend a lovely catch up evening with one yesterday.


Alvin.

[FaithWalker]

I'm sorry that your father has passed but I'm glad that you are at peace with it.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling....today I was reminded that cutting ties to old life is slow, slow, slow process.  Especially if you let the MLCr handle the cutting.

The mailman delivered an utility bill addressed to me. Nothing special, except it was redirected from home I moved out 13+ months back. And the invoicer was company xW works for And the invoice was sent to 'owner of estate'  .

After I had stopped laughing to irony of universe, I sent an WhatsApp message to xW with photo of  invoice and cover letter.  She wrote back pretty quickly that they do not get estate ownership records automatically, and admitted she had forgotten to notify, and would take care of it ASAP.  Time will tell if a year from now I will receive a similar bill again

Alvin

[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi Alvin,
Thanks for sharing and making me laugh today.  I’m sure I will have similar experiences down the road.

HF

[AlvinTheMaker]

Time for a brief update....

Life's been giving some ups and downs....

With new year I have started to stabilize and build financials.   Last year was.... well, I did spend a LOT more than I earned.  Funerals, move, going to doc, seeking a new job - all were huge money pits.  Pretty much all the money that came from XW buying my share of our family home was spent on building a new life. My goal for the 2022 is to re-establish a buffer of 20-30K, and then continue it for few more years.  Of course a lot of it depends whether or not I pass the trial period at my current position (this is the last month of trial  - so far all seems good, but if MLC taught me something it is not to keep anything for granted).

I have been spending some more time on self-study, reading some more psychology books and articles (not just relationships, but on wider spectrum).  It is something that I enjoy a lot.... I think I am finally beginning to understand where my random bouts of anxiety root from, and the chicken-vs-egg syndrome that is feeding the phenomenan.   A lot of it relates to fact that I am very sensitive to physical pain. And the more stressed I am, the more my body feels.  And this creates a kind of "loop" filled with anxiety that I try to escape from with various distractions (like walking around)...  I truly doubt there would be cure for it, but at least I can now try to live with it more mindfully.  And maybe I can try some healthier distractions (like cold bag of beans)  instead of unhealthy ones (like eating sweets).... Anyway, one tiny step at a time towards the best version of me.

Kids are mostly ok. I do talk and keep contact with all of them at least once a  week; and the younger kids did spent a Christmas at our place... G22 is doing well apart of thinking that she is immune to COVID.  I hope and pray she does not learn the truth the hard way.....  G21 is still strugling with depression and insomnia. The good news is she is having proper mental health care, so the outcome is positive.... G17 got sick right before the holiday, so she did spent the holidays with XW. ...G14 is going through some teenage hickkup.  Not really sure  what else to do than listen and watch over that she does not do anything stupid .... S8 is all okey and happy.

It seems ms.H is struggling with Stepmom Outsider Syndrome.  I was expecting some family integration issues to show up, but boy was I in for a surprise when she opened up how strongly she feels it.  It seems a lot of falls down to non-existing relationship with G14 who is behaving like angry teenager.  Having learned my lessons from MLC, I mindfully try to avoid the fixer syndrome and instead have suggested some family therapy for blended families.   All in all I am beginning to understand why 70-80% of blended family startups crash and burn within the first few years.  Stepmom outsider syndrome can be a really tough patch.  If I had not been through MLC and learned the skills I learned, I likely would not have been able to cope with it.  Now I am feeling relaxed and focus on doing things that support the end game I prefer.....    If thinking outside the box, I wonder if the "outsider syndrome" plays some role also in how many MLCr affairs crash and burn.

XW... Not much to tell.  Apart that S8 fired an accidental truth dart (without even being aware of what he did). And it was a glorious blasting hit right into XWs poor heart   

Alvin

[FaithWalker]

Great to read an update ATM

I hope that you can realize your financial goals this year.  Sounds like a good plan.

Sorry to hear about the hiccup with new wifey struggling with S.O.S.  Definitely with time and patience and a realization for the kids that she's not going anywhere will help.  I would imagine it takes time, lots of time.  Sounds like you are approaching it wisely.

[AlvinTheMaker]

I was exchanging few messages with Standing Strong the other day, and he asked how I was doing and if I had any news to share. 

Well, life's good.  If you don't account that both I and ms. H had COVID, which was followed by some health issues (for both of us). But I guess it was good rehearsal act of "in sickness and in health" for the two of us.  Both of us looked and loved after each other like you should in serious relationship.  And both of us were able to vanish some demons of the past because of the long talks we had.

On the upside, summer vacations are already on the plans.  I managed to book my two weeks of holidays same time as ms.H.  If things go as planned, we all  likely go visit my brother on the side of country and enjoy the nature there.  At the same I need to kick off the sales of piece of farm land I inherited from my father...  Me and ms.H have slowly been working up on the wedding.  Still some 13 months to go, but possibly the biggest obstacle of uncertain finances is now tackled.   Ms.H finally had success in selling her old apartment.  It was no financial triump, but at least she was able to pay remaining mortgage and get enough money to fund her half of the wedding.

I have been slowly restoring one of my old hobbies.   Within the past few months I have bought like 6 or 7 graphic novels (that is fancy adult talk for comic book, LOL), and allowed myself to enjoy the moment with things I have always loved.  It feels uncanny pleasing to sit back, smell the ink and enjoy a good plot...  And since winter is once again gone, I have contined nature photography I started at BD. It has definitely become a good way to "spark" my creativity visually....  Sadly my biggest & dearest "old hobby" is still aside. I really don¨t know if the loss of spark is just temporary, or is it because of life keeping me too busy.

I totally missed the three year anniversary of my BD.  I guess it is a sign that I have genuinely dropped the rope. Life is here and now;  I don't remiscince the past with XW much these days.  The very limited communication we have is mostly about the logistics on delivering kids  from A to B; or about acute health issues kids have.  I am still bit so-and-so on whether or not to call this thing we have co-parenting or just two parents sharing the same kids every now and then. I get absolutely no info on childrens activities or milestones from her; it all has to come through kids.   For example when kids were visiting us for easter, they told they would be going abroad for quick holiday trip with XW, no consent of mine was asked.  Needless to say that would have been a direct violation of our parenting agreement, and on worst scenario the kids would have been trapped on border.... I just printed out the required documentation and asked kids to give it to XW.  Maybe XW asks my consent next time, maybe not...  I do feel I miss a big part of my childrens life because of the way she acts.  All in all I do find this being the saddest part of MLC experience.

As for kids...   The younger kids did spent the easter with me and ms.H   It was fun, except that it was over way too soon.  Possibly my biggest worry is my youngest teenager girl.  Not really sure if it the teenage years or somethig more sinister, but I do feel like I am losing touch with her.   And what I have talked about this with her siblings, they all get the same treatment....  And my oldest gal came to spend a weekend with us last week.  I think it was something like 15 months since we last met physically. It was very nice.... I hope that this "COVID-filled" life would slowly be over, but what I was reading the news earlier today it seems a new, even more catchy variant is coming again. Sigh.... but I am grateful for even the little time I do get with my family. 

That's all this time...
Alvin

PS.  Oh, and one of the acquintances I made from local divorce group has been entering MLC (for the second time).  The bombdrop was about two weeks back; she left behind a very good man and 6yo princess and started escaping....   Looking at her progress, hearing the stories she tells.... well, bat$h!te crazy is still very apt term.  She is a tormented soul looking at a world through very distorted lens, trying to find inner peace from things that cannot bring it.... Though it is very sad, the blessing of it all is that it makes me realize that my bat$h!te crazy experience with XW was... well, bat$h!te crazy.

[Standing Strong]

Alvin!! 

What a nice update....... and a marriage? Wow. That's amazing. I hope Mrs. H knows how lucky she is. 

Seems like life is just swirling around you..... how marvelous.

So happy for you 

-SS

[5hilmerton]

Hey Alvin,
great update and so very glad to read.  I often think about u, you were one who offered your words of wisdom and guidance as i started this Journey.  Wishing you the very best with your future plans.

5hil

[PJ Ames]

Thanks for the update Alvin. I'm glad you're doing so well. Teenagers are challenging to say the least. I have no advice other than just to be there for your kids when they need you.

13 months can come at you pretty quick! Enjoy your time before then and do as much recovering as possible!

[AlvinTheMaker]

Time for some journaling....   lots of unexpected twists and turns  past week. 

At work...half of the staff working in my team was laid off. It was hard, especially as there were no direct signs of the layoffs coming . Even though I was one of the "fortunate ones" to keep my job, I have already started looking for alternatives out there (just in case).

With kids.... G17 moved to a flat of her own.  Just like that...    I knew it was coming, but not the precise timeline....   Well, at least it made me and XW exchange some messages of how the communication for co-parenting should work, and what she is expected to message me (instead of hearing it from kids).   The funny part of it all....  she was honestly thinking that kids would/should act as messengers and tell me everything in their life.   I just said that it does not work like that, and that all of it was in the co-parenting agreement she signed.  No apology, just acknowledgement that she tries to change her behaviour in future. Time will tell how that goes.

Yesterday was the prom of G17, and my oldest gal sent me plenty of photos and videos from the event.   There were also some shots of G17 with XW together....  My god XW has aged.  I did share the prom images to ms.H as well, and she was shocked by how different from past images she looks.  Her hair has much more gray, her skin seems aged and spotty, her fingers were much thicker than I remembered, and the BD "sporty-version" of her is gone and she seems to have gained some weight all over ... she looks some 15-20 years older than she actually is.  No doubt her body is going through something massive.... Whether or not the change in appearance is related to MLC is hard to say.

Alvin



 

[Standing Strong]

Hey Alvin 

Lots going on in your life, I'm so glad you avoided the axe!! I'm seeing a lot of that lately. Lots of companies doing rather large mass firings.
Rough times ahead I think.

So Ex-W is doing the MLC aging thing? I'm sorry to hear that. Not surprising, but it has to be difficult to see.

The kids are turning into not kids.... HA!!! Funny how that works. Has to be a proud moment with a touch of worry. 

Glad you are doing so well. 

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

So Ex-W is doing the MLC aging thing? I'm sorry to hear that. Not surprising, but it has to be difficult to see.

Indeed, it is very eerie and confusing.... Your head is telling they are the person in your memories, and the eyes are Asking "do I know her?".... A lot like looking at my father in his final years. It is very much like a ghost in a shell.

Alvin

[MadLuv]

Crazy how they are off to a better life, but all appearances seem the opposite. Mine also aged 20 years!

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi all,

Just to share a quick shout for reality tv-series titled 'Welcome to Plathville' airing on TLC. It seems they turned the title as 'Welcome to MLCville' for season 4 (airing now).... Here's a short clip what's it alike: https://youtu.be/kNFOixIwKpg

Even after this many years watching mlc-ish events happening to somebody else's family... it still raises faint/distant echoes of my own experiences within.... It is not a bad thing, just makes my heart cry for the poor man and kids trying to make some sense on what the green tastes like. 

What else can I say that it's definitely "interesting" watch.

Alvin

[Tsun]

My son's sitter recommended this show to me and I started watching season 4, and instantly thought MLC!! Very sad to watch..

[Benson]

Agree it is sad when you have lived through it. Great to see you are still posting Alvin and hello to you TSUN. I have corresponding lots over the last couple of years with Alvin and take much wisdom from his thoughtful and detailed posts.

I havent had the stamina to keep posting Alvin but I love that you have . Sharing the journey into detail is very helpful for so many of us and I hope is cathartic for you my friend.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Good to see you too Benson. And good to hear that you still enjoy following my story.... I wish that my writings from past year and half give  hope for others walking the LBS path.  When you are in middle of hurricane, survival is the only reasonable thing to think about. But after the storm, life goes on and good things start to happen as well. It is a slow road, but eventually it will happen.

Alvin

[AlvinTheMaker]

So once again I have spent a summer with my kids. It was definitely different since G14 (soon turning 18) has moved to her own flat and was working all summer. But I did have a good summer with my family, and ms.H also greatly enjoyed us all spending time together. This is definitely a new family unit in the making... For the first time since Covid we went out on the holiday doing amusement parks, zoos etc public places. And of course one of us got hit by Covid for the second time, sigh... S5 (now 9) made plenty of new friends, whereas G12 (now 16) mostly isolated to her room with mobile (teenager stuff).

Despite spending money like 'a-grade disney parent', I have also lived frugally. Thus I now have a healthy financial buffer that should keep me safe for 12-24 months in case of emergency. From here onwards it's all about saving for the weddings 😃 Sadly the future of my job (and entire company) has remained unstable,  so I have continued browsing at job listings and applying on some open key positions (wish me luck).

It's been long since I shared anything about my  MLCr, but finally I got some news. It seems XW is finally beginning to get that actions have consequences, and at times they are not nice.

XW asked for second year in row if S5 could join her grandparents for holiday trip during my summer vacation. I just politely refused saying I had already made plans for us.... It really irks me how her grandparents do not respect the limited days/ time I have with my kids. They are retired, so they could choose any of those 230 days kids are with XW. I may go to hell by saying this aloud, but IMHO they lost their right to ask  anything from me  the moment they chose to support MLCr crazytrain.

Another round of communication happened month later when XW messaged and asked when the kids are coming to see her. Then she complained that it has been so long since they were there (bah, humbug... it was just 2 weeks, and her next scheduled turn was another 2  weeks away)... I understand that most likely she too misses the kids when they are gone. But I could not help firing a truth dart by mentioning that during school season I occasionally have to wait up to 6 weeks (instead of usual once a month) to see them live...but I asked kids to call their mom more often (she still does not call them, funny how that goes).

Some stuff kids have told me....

XW has become a cat-owner too LOL... For all the years we were together, we had a policy of "no pets" because I do not like dogs but prefer cats, and she and kids wanted a dog but not a cat.  And now she has one, LOL ... So bizarre.

I also heard stories I did not want to hear  of... XW is still driving over the speed limit like world class rally champ, sigh. I am not sure if kids are truly as thrilled about it as they seem, or if they are just masking some worry behind their adoration as well. Anyway, I just told them I hope they understand that following speed limits is important for everyone's safety and their mom should drive accordingly.

Another tidbit I did not fancy was that the garden and farm yard are now officially taken over by the weed knee deep. Kids have made XW to buy a line cutter so that it would become usable on some level (tall grass is good hiding place for not just ticks but also vipers etc.wild life, so it is safety question as well). And if XW does nothing, then kids will.... This made me really sad, because I did spent so much time on making it all usable and safe for the family. Oh well, it's XWs turn now to sweat for it now.

Last but not least..... I am bit worried how XW (and kids) will survive financially over the next winter. Food price is up, gasoline price is up, energy price is up. And expected to rise even further... If this winter may become bit rough for me and ms.H, then it will be pure murder for XW. I know her housing costs way too well (I paid all the bills throughout our marriage), and most likely she needs additional 10k to cover increased living expenses.... I have shared my concern with ms.H, and we have come to conclusion that if XW comes asking for money, then we will  suggest flipping parenting turns. I hope we never get there, but we are prepared if $h!te hits the fan.

But that's all for now....

Alvin.

[MomOfSteel]

When you are in middle of hurricane, survival is the only reasonable thing to think about. But after the storm, life goes on and good things start to happen as well. It is a slow road, but eventually it will happen.

Thank you for these words.  I’m following along and it really does give me hope to see others coming out of this mess with good times and positive new relationships.  So often it’s hard to feel like my life will be what I wish eventually (with or without my turkey turd of a MLCer).

I hope you can soak in those summer visits and fun and the work situation ends up positively. 

[FaithWalker]

Catching up Alvin.  I'm glad you had a good Summer with your kids!

[5hilmerton]

Hey Alvin,
I have been a bit MIA, always great to read your updates.

Happy Holidays,
5hil

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi all,

This is about dream from last night....I usually (almost never) don't have negative dreams, which is why I think last night raised such confusion and strong emotions.

It was about time of divorce,  when I had to defend my right to see my kids as often and as much as I do. It did not come easy. I did not have to stand and fight just against XW, but also the system that favors mothers as primary parents. Seeing a dream where all those "papa bear fights for his cubs", thoughts and emotions came back.... It was raw and savage. Bear fights always are.

Maybe at that point I did not fully get how fiercely I fought.I numbed some parts of me just to be as ruthless and fierce as I was. I now do get it....  And I can give myself the grace and compassion for all of it. I was doing my best. And above all I was doing it for right reasons (love for my cubs).

Funny, how events like this come back years later in a dream.  But clearly it was some unfinished business within me, and hopefully it can now rest in peace.

Alvin

[xyzcf]

And I can give myself the grace and compassion for all of it. I was doing my best. And above all I was doing it for right reasons (love for my cubs).

What we went through which made little sense to us was terribly painful and confusing....it came to this???

You did indeed do your best and more. No thing else you could have done. The LBSer is the one that gets to look out for thier cubs...the MLCer looks out only for themselves.

I had a "nightmare" a couple of nights ago as well that woke me up. 13 years later about what he had done. It annoyed me to have my sleep interrupted yet I am not in control of my unconscious mind.

Yes, peace is what we long for...and we do get there.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling.... Today was a reminder that D is hard for kids even years after. S5 is fastly entering pre-teens, and he is starting to format questions with deeper meanings. Trying to understand what happened to happy family he once had and why he cannot have it any more. I don't know if I have the best of answers,  but I know looking too tightly at past is not a working solution either. All I can do is guide him on moving with life, show practical love, be there, and hope it is enough to carry over any troubled waters safely.

Shared parenting with MLCr.... It's so strange as there is no "shared" part.

Alvin

[MadLuv]

As a child of divorce myself it is always with you. I think for those of us that had parent that divorced it is a cycle we would have done anything to break. I’m sure whatever questions he has you will come up with just the right answer.

[AlvinTheMaker]

With kids.... G17 moved to a flat of her own.  Just like that...    I knew it was coming, but not the precise timeline....   Well, at least it made me and XW exchange some messages of how the communication for co-parenting should work, and what she is expected to message me (instead of hearing it from kids).   The funny part of it all....  she was honestly thinking that kids would/should act as messengers and tell me everything in their life.   I just said that it does not work like that, and that all of it was in the co-parenting agreement she signed.  No apology, just acknowledgement that she tries to change her behaviour in future. Time will tell how that goes. 

Another year has gone by, and here I am watching the same bat$h!tecrazy chain of events happening once again.  Sigh....

G12 (turning16 next month) is planning on moving to student dorm next fall.  Again, zero messaging about from XW - thing just came up during regular phone talk with G12,  she has got troubles in getting required id services locally.  I knew the move was coming within couple of years, but IMHO she's not ready for it yet.  She lacks so many of the basic skills to live on her own,but maybe this will also serve as push to grow up. I can only hope and pray that the dorm supervisor/assistant is actively looking after new students.

Anyway, I've spent most of the day going through the emotional rollercoaster. Reflecting what thoughts this is bringing up in me.... Lack of communation, lack of sharing on important decisions, making important decisions affecting kids without discussion... It's making me feel as outsider with what is happening with my kids lives.  It's not a good feeling.... I cannot even fathom why any sane parent would choose to co-parent the way XW does.   

To add some more salt, XW is taking kids to mini-holiday just week before me and mrs.H are supposed to get married.  I cannot understant the timing as I was planning of having kids with us, getting ready for the wedding.

But I'll stick with the show. Support my kids, be there for them, and see where it takes us.

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Life sure isn't dull.... I received a warning at work for low performance. The boss also offered a voluntary resignation package as alternative for warning, and said the team would likely need to go sooner than later.....and none if it moved me towards despair. Because I know the warning is not because I or anyone in team would have done job poorly. Instead I feel proud of where things are.... And I'm not afraid of taking the gamble or facing change.

If thinking what the old version me would have done in this sitch... I likely would have had anxiety attack.

 Now I just see it as cycle if life, one door closes, another opens.... Oh, MLC is a gift that keeps giving.

Alvin

[Reinventing]

AM, best to you as you navigate this and find a new position.

[OffRoad]

Good for you Alvin, for realizing the "warning" wasn't about you at all.  Yes, the lessons we learned with MLC do keep on giving in good ways.

I have no doubt your new door will lead you to a good place.

[PJ Ames]

Oh, MLC is a gift that keeps giving.

Well, as UM told me once,  you don't go through hell and back without acquiring transferable skills.

Good luck with the job search. I just started a new gig myself after 7 years at my last one. Learning how to hold on loosely has served me well. You'll be fine.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Feel so sorry for you on the job situation and dealing with your ex. your ex is going to continue to do what she always has done- her thing.

Lack of communation, lack of sharing on important decisions, making important decisions affecting kids without discussion... It's making me feel as outsider with what is happening with my kids lives.  It's not a good feeling....

I totally understand where you are coming from. I don't know the custody arrangement, but from her mindset, you are an afterthought. She is running her show and sees you more as an consultant than a father. That means if something big happens, she will call you if she feels overwhelmed. Other than that, she calls the shots.

Now, I had everything laid out in the settlement. If she crossed a line, I sent her a reminder in an email of the settlement and her obligation to adhere to the settlement. If she left the state with my daughter, she had to notify me. If she changed schools, I was to be consulted as I held educational rights as well. The reason why I towed the line and held her feet to the fire was to ensure that my ex knew that I was still a part of the picture when it came to the children.

G12 (turning16 next month) is planning on moving to student dorm next fall.  Again, zero messaging about from XW - thing just came up during regular phone talk with G12,  she has got troubles in getting required id services locally.  I knew the move was coming within couple of years, but IMHO she's not ready for it yet.  She lacks so many of the basic skills to live on her own,but maybe this will also serve as push to grow up. I can only hope and pray that the dorm supervisor/assistant is actively looking after new students.

I need clarification. Why does she need to move to a dorm? I understand college and such but why does your daughter want to move out and live with strangers? School is difficult enough dealing with teenagers all day and now you want to live with them? How does this work? Is she part of a meal plan? Does she have a room mate? Will this impact her time with you?

Thanks and I wish you the best on the job. I am sure you will do fine.

Have a great day,

(((Ready)))

[AlvinTheMaker]

I don't know the custody arrangement, but from her mindset, you are an afterthought. She is running her show and sees you more as an consultant than a father.

Indeed, so she seems to feel and behave.

Technically speaking there is very little I can do on this except saying I disagree. G16 checks all the boxes for moving even without my (or XWs) consent. And untill she is 18, both me and XW are expected to share and cover her fair living costs equally.

I need clarification. Why does she need to move to a dorm? I understand college and such but why does your daughter want to move out and live with strangers? School is difficult enough dealing with teenagers all day and now you want to live with them? How does this work? Is she part of a meal plan? Does she have a room mate? Will this impact her time with you?

Why part is easy....     G16 applied and got approved in equestrian college. Its about 100 miles away from our old family home.

How does it all work.... Lets say that it's still out there😂

Apparently G16 (or XW) does not want the shared all exclusive dorm living, and instead there is now a push for 600 square feet rental house where only she would live fife days a week.... It seems entire XW's core family is backing on the move in there: donating furniture, planning a trip on IKEA next week etc.

The not-so-funny stuff #1 is that G16 has not been approved yet for the rental 😵‍💫 And if thinking this whole thing from landlord/lady perspective, I would not rent my house for 16yo. No matter how decent she is.... I am not afraid of her falling into booze, tobacco etc. I just cannot see any 16yo cleaning and looking after a 600 square feet house all alone. Heck, she cannot look after her own room. Add up loneliness etc what you get when living in big house alone, and you got high risks.

The not so funny stuff #2 is what happens when G16 graduates eventually. She's got big flat full of stuff and she likely needs to move again (for higher education). ...my first student flat was about one tenth of the size, and my second about half the size of what XW is planning with G16... It is easy and logical to move from smaller home to bigger one over the years, but doing it vice versa  Its not just the material side (which XW is guaranteed to store for eternity if requested😂), but also the mental side of it.

Am I the crazy or responsible one with thoughts like this. Who knows 😂 oh well, I will try to reason with G16 and see where things go.

Alvin

[AlvinTheMaker]

Been a while since last update.... All in all life is good.

Family.... I think this was first Christmas where we are starting to integrate properly as new family unit. I am grateful for having solid and good relationships with S9, G22 and G23, and how each of them has bonded with ms.H as well.  On the downside G16 and G18 are somewhat of a black hole where very little comes out. I guess it is the teen years mixed with growth towards independence; only time will tell.


Job... As to be expected, I and my team (along few other people) got laid off few months back. $h!te happens, but I have no regrets...  I have put this extra time in good use, and besides job hunting have focused on home, health and relationship improvements.

Lots of physical baggage (both mine as well as ms.H's) has been either donated, sold or recycled.  When you are in midst if MLC hurricane you just grab what you think is precious to heart or useful later in life. Now is my "later in life" and it has felt good to declutter and review some of it mindfully without rush.  Still plenty to go through, lol.

Health.... This is the only area with darker clouds. I can feel something's not right with my breathing. So far I know it is not sleep apnea (went through test) nor asthma (tested as well).  Hopefully things start to unwrap in coming month or two as I start visiting more docs after new year. Knowing my brother encountered big-C bit younger than what I am now, I have mentally prepped up for the worst.

To add some extra spice to health issues, ms.H has entered menopause. No MLC (so far, LOL), and we have had some good talks about how she feels and is coping with it.  Knowing the health woes both of us face now, it feels only good both of us have focused on empathy, support and strengthening the relationship.

Last and possibly of least importance, XW.... I think we have reached all time low in communication. Zero talk besides strictly necessary logistics regarding kids, and usually responds with thumb up emoji. Hope she gets her $h!te together by the time we become grandparents some day.

[FaithWalker]

Nice to read an update A.  I'm praying that it isn't big-C for you, and something that will be easily navigated and recovered from.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Happy New Year to you! I am glad that you continue to move forward with you life and still manage the kids! I hope all goes well with you and your health. Make sure you let us know how you are doing and I will be saying a few prayers for you as well.

ms.H has entered menopause. No MLC (so far, LOL), and we have had some good talks about how she feels and is coping with it. 

My new wife just turned 50 and is either in perimenopause or in menopause, but like your Ms. H, no signs of MLC. Thank God! Yes, I think it is important to talk about the feelings and our health so that they know how we feel instead of guessing.

Last and possibly of least importance, XW.... I think we have reached all time low in communication. Zero talk besides strictly necessary logistics regarding kids, and usually responds with thumb up emoji. Hope she gets her $h!te together by the time we become grandparents some day.

My ex and I are in the same boat. We don't even really have kids to worry about any more so I may get the rare text here or there but for the most part, I never hear from her and that is best for all around. Neither my new wife or I communicate with our exes and I think that helps maintain harmony all around. I wouldn't worry too much about her even with grandchildren as long as you maintain your core values and focus on what is best for your family.

Enjoy your day,

(((Ready)))

[AlvinTheMaker]

Health.... This is the only area with darker clouds. I can feel something's not right with my breathing. So far I know it is not sleep apnea (went through test) nor asthma (tested as well).  Hopefully things start to unwrap in coming month or two as I start visiting more docs after new year. Knowing my brother encountered big-C bit younger than what I am now, I have mentally prepped up for the worst.

Well, this train seems to have resolved way faster than I imagined.

I went to ER due to quicky worsening chest/back pain. Six hours and multiple tests, xrays and doctors later I was dropped with a package of steroids and call to signup asthma meds and treatment programme ASAP. The ER doc was 100% sure I have uncontrolled asthma gone rogue, and previous tests had failed to identify the underlying condition... So far feeling meds kicking in and knocking the wood. Though this was one rough day, a lot of good came with it. Feeling grateful.

Alvin

[JohnnyBravo]

Sorry to hear that turned so far south, Alvin, but certainly glad that they caught it and that you're turning the corner quickly.

JB

[FaithWalker]

Yikes, how scary!  I'm glad they figured out what was wrong.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Just sharing / bookmarking a topic on emotional detachment experiences some go through during menopause. Cannot help thinking how much some of it sounds like MLC minus the need for new partner. Hormones among other things can make people quite nuts, but I guess everyone here knows that😂

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22543.0

Alvin

[Happylight]

I have read some theories that hormonal changes probably do play into MLC for both men and women.  Men's levels tend to drop more slowly over time--I wonder if this means that they slide into MLC more slowly as well?  I don't have the answers for sure, just curious about the potential biological contributors to the "storm."

[AlvinTheMaker]

I have read some theories that hormonal changes probably do play into MLC for both men and women.  Men's levels tend to drop more slowly over time--I wonder if this means that they slide into MLC more slowly as well?  I don't have the answers for sure, just curious about the potential biological contributors to the "storm."

I have no doubt of hormones being a contributing factor. It is frightening how many "fell out of love for spouse/kids overnight" stories are on the site above even in their public section.

Of course not everyone in menopause decides to divorce and go grazy, which I think links to FOO. You either have or don't have the tools to navigate dark waters without totally nuking family around you.

As for men....I think it is highly individual, just like  with women. Some go slow and easy, some fast and hard, some crash and burn.

All in all would be interesting to know if any MLCr has started HRT treatment and what the effects were. At least I don't recall reading a single storyline here or other mlc forums where that would have been explored.

Alvin

[WHY]

I have read some theories that hormonal changes probably do play into MLC for both men and women.  Men's levels tend to drop more slowly over time--I wonder if this means that they slide into MLC more slowly as well?  I don't have the answers for sure, just curious about the potential biological contributors to the "storm."

I have no doubt of hormones being a contributing factor. It is frightening how many "fell out of love for spouse/kids overnight" stories are on the site above even in their public section.

Of course not everyone in menopause decides to divorce and go grazy, which I think links to FOO. You either have or don't have the tools to navigate dark waters without totally nuking family around you.

As for men....I think it is highly individual, just like  with women. Some go slow and easy, some fast and hard, some crash and burn.

All in all would be interesting to know if any MLCr has started HRT treatment and what the effects were. At least I don't recall reading a single storyline here or other mlc forums where that would have been explored.

Alvin

If we could test every MLCer and measure hormone levels.   I don’t believe we’d find a pattern. Otherwise MLC would be easy to diagnose and even be treatable.

I also question chemical imbalance and affects on depression.  It’s highly complex.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326475

All I know is that my MLC is living in an alternative universe.  It’s psychosis.  And I wish I knew would causes it.  Hopefully in 100 years someone will figure it out. 

[Ready2Transform]

All in all would be interesting to know if any MLCr has started HRT treatment and what the effects were. At least I don't recall reading a single storyline here or other mlc forums where that would have been explored.

Actually, there have been! We used to keep track of that better on some of the old research threads (some go back 10 years or more) that always seem to get buried. Off the top of my head, there was a member named Smitty (with some numbers after it) whose husband got T treatment and improved. They ended up reconciling I think. I'm not seeing her in the member list, but when I search for "Smitty" the name "Battlefield" comes up, so that may be the same person (I'm really not certain).

It's a strong belief of mine that my xH suffered a big andropausal T drop in his mid-30s that contributed to his situation. I remember reading from a reliable source that a drop in estrogen or testosterone doesn't equal an increase in the other, but rather for both it will elevate cortisol, which can cause a ton of problems like anxiety, mental fog, weight gain, etc. I had my 'crisis' right before my xH did, and it aligned with when hormonal birth control (and subsequently going off of it) did a huge number on me, which has taken me years to start to improve from (progesterone being the problem). I had a huge amount of swelling, hair loss, weight changes, and an identity crisis. Fun stuff. 

I'm not a huge fan of his books other than this one, but John Gray's "Venus on Fire, Mars on Ice" does a really good job of laying out some of the hormonal and neurotransmitter differences among the sexes and how to naturally improve both. It echoes a lot of our experiences (though most not as drastice) in the parables of the book, so it felt like good research to me years ago when I found it. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7849906-venus-on-fire-mars-on-ice