[Standing Strong]

I really appreciate your support, it is one of the hardest things I have done. I would not call myself cool and calm,  I am totally raging about the fact that the additional mental health issues of our 8 year daughter are directly linked to her choices. I am glad I got through the conversation more or less composed.

I wrote a message to explain her in detail all her choices and consequences from distance and loss of respect for her, to mental health damage, also showing her other choices which she can still make. What annoys me the most is she keeps reverting that I choose to be distant, rather than the distance being a consequence of her stonewalling and affair. There is a part of me that really wants to push 'send', I haven't sent it,  because this would be total "schock therapy". Then again, anybody has any experience with that approach? Just calling their BS stonecold factually? To be honest, it would feel so relieving, speaking absolute truth.

Hey pall 

I would be careful about that message. If she is still in the mode of "do everything opposite of what he says" then it probably will have a bad countereffect. Very likely she'll run more and push back more. It can be seen as manipulative and controlling. You can have the best of intentions, but their perception is very twisted, especially in the beginning. Up is down and down is up.

Just be cautious. If it's something you HAVE to get off your chest, then that's one thing.... but it'll come with a cost. You are approaching instead of her approaching, and she'll probably not be ready for it.

-SS

[Treasur]

Don’t send it. Why?
A) waste of time bc that kind of note will change nothing
B) it will feed her narrative that you are a horrible controlling husband and might reappear in legal papers
C) very good chance it will be shared with her friends/family (at best) and an OM (at worst)
D) right now, bluntly, she does not care what you think or feel if it doesn’t fit her agenda
E) even healthy humans rarely change their course bc they are told they are being a POS....especially if they are lol
I could go on but that’s probably enough 

There’s a chap who writes books and articles about dealing with disordered folks called George Simon. He has a great phrase ‘it’s not that they don’t see, it’s that they disagree’. Or i’d add, don’t care. Most of us LBS went through a stage early on (waves hand) when we sent long carefully constructed emails or rants ‘explaining’ thatbif they did x, it would have consequence y. Not sure I can recall a single example of it making any positive difference at all. Often they don’t even read them or don’t remember if they did. Or use them as a weapon.

Well done on the self-preserving instinct that did not press send 
Your ‘need’ to ‘speak’ is entirely normal and understandable.....it will just be wasted on your wife.
Get a journal.
Vent here or with an IC.
Spew your thoughts in draft emails you never send
Shout at trees while walking or other inanimate objects.
Get a punch bag or take up drumming.

Part of reclaiming your life from gaslighting BS is, frankly, refusing to feed it and refusing to play. Your wife does not currently care what you think....so stop telling her. Unless she’s usually an idiot, it’s pretty predictable that a h might be unimpressed after being left, right? And you do not have to justify or explain your boundaries to have them. Like being distant with her.....one can be distant yet civil as you should be bc you share a young child....boundaries are best understood in action than words anyway. She may not like it but hey ho, that’s what happens when you treat a spouse this way or leave them. It’s a pretty common defence tactic (have you heard of DARVO?) to essentially say the problem is not what i’m doing but your reaction to what i’m doing. Errr, no.

Reclaim your truth by being rigorous as hell about what you can control and what you can’t. And as honest with yourself as you can about your own emotions and that feeling something does not mean you have to act based on it. Hence what we call the Rule of 3 which is putting in a full stop between Feeling and Response. Just like you instinctively did here. Find other ways to let those feelings out that do not involve your wife, daughter or lawyers  TBh your recovery....and your daughters future wellbeing....will be influenced much more longer term by how you choose to work with your own emotions and reactions now than telling your wife how to work on hers 

All of what you feel is entirely normal, Pal. We get that. We are just encouraging you to find new ways to work with it. But you obviously have good instincts so i’m sure you’ll find a way to do that which works for you.

[HeavenlyFocus]

You are getting great advice.  I too was in a similar situation and wanted to send a message to my XW and I agree with others that sending it won't matter.    The only time I confronted her in the past year was when she really hurt my kids with an unexpected man in her place when they were picking up their things.   Best thing to do is totally focus on taking care of you daughter and yourself.   I am so sorry that you and your 8 y/o D are having to go through this.

HF

[palladian]

Thanks everyone for the support. I confess, I was weak, modified the message to be 'warmer' to - again - try to explain why I was distant, what she could expect in the future and which alternative choices there are. I still probably need to learn to what extent she engages (she did so earlier already on previous messages, which is why I want to see what happens) but above all to me it offers 'consolation', there cannot be any hiding in 'I didn't know you thought about it like this'. So it was more for me than her actually, to learn to set boundaries, sooo good on me! 

On a happier note, went to my psychologist, it was valuable to be able to tell, having some validation on emotions, and he gave the insight that 'not knowing why' is ok, strengthening my view she is the one losing out one a unique thing and being more confident about the type of relationship I deserve to have. It felt relaxing to be able to shut down the brain in a way (at least for a while). Have made 2 more appointments in april.

I also bought some new shirts, look pretty ribbed (a silver lining of LBS?  , have my entire week planned out to meet people for good conversation, including a really fascinating woman which I really have a good vibe with (I'm not interested in rebound so wouldn't engage even if I wanted to and now I don't want to) and seem to be able to focus a bit more on work than last few days, health is still sh** though.

But, in general, today is a good day!

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

So sorry for the circumstances that brought you here, but glad that you are at a place where you can get the support you need.

I was weak, modified the message to be 'warmer' to - again - try to explain why I was distant, what she could expect in the future and which alternative choices there are.

I would not try to explain anything to her. Do journal your feelings as this is a great way for you to start to heal. However, messages from you trying to explain your feelings are only going to maker her feel guilt and this will only result in anger towards you. Remember, she will be angry because you are trying to make her feel bad. She has no true empathy for you. This is all about her and her feelings. She doesn't "love" OM, she "loves" the way he makes her feel.

Many will talk about their MLCer being a narcissist and that may be true in some cases, but most are just going through a period of being very self centered- even if for all the wrong reasons. That mindset came out in her interactions with her daughter.

strengthening my view she is the one losing out one a unique thing and being more confident about the type of relationship I deserve to have.

Confidence is very important right now. Because I never met, saw, or even knew much about OM, I always felt inadequate towards him. It really hurt my self confidence and took a long time to get it back.

(I'm not interested in rebound

Not now, that would be messy and most of all confusing towards your daughter. She is dealing with crazy mom right now; she needs all of her father's attention and emotional energy.

Keep healing yourself and be there for you daughter. Don't focus on your wife as it will only pull you into her mess. Detachment takes time and trying to see if she is coming out of the tunnel is a waste of time- take it from me.

Have a great day and even better week,

((((Ready))))

[MomOfSteel]

It helped me to read through the posts from shock sis where she answered peoples questions about MLC from her point of view.  It helped me to not react as strongly when he pulls his garbage. 

[palladian]

Today I woke up angry as f***, angry at the level of disrespect shown to myself. I am taking as much distance as I can (she keeps dropping practical messages though) and I notice I start feeling a certain level of disdain towards her as if she is a high school kid and I'm the adult here, She is losing me as her equally leveled companion, her peer. I also feel the urge to treat her like that. I'm like: let's get divorced asap, I don't want this toddler in my life any more.

I'm also really struggling in handling the following 2 situations:

I received some happy pictures of my daughter, they went to a fun fair. On the one hand I'm happy to see my daughter, on the other hand I'm hurt that she has no idea how hurtful this is (I should have been there with them ffs). I just didn't send any reply.

Second situation, and even more difficult: she wrote quite some text how things are with her sister, a lot of sorrow of course. She treats me like I'm her best friend (which I was, I was her bloody husband) looking for consolation. I don't feel anything about her cake-eating but on the other hand, it is an exceptional situation, so I'm stuck in between two sides. I also feel the urge saying: go to your OM with that as well, b***.

Did anyone of you have these feelings of contempt? How do you navigate them?

Oh, I also got confirmation the sister thing was the trigger: she wrote me that 'because of the situation with her sister', she doesn't really want to have to think about arranging the financial side of the divorce (related to our house). It sounded like it was a fait divers she just wanted to get off her plate.

[UrsaMajor]

They (the Mid-Lifer) usually doesn't want to think about ANYTHING that interferes with their supply of "happy."

That means anything having to do with consequences, responsibility, "adulting,"

Her complaining to you about whatever situation she has created with her sister is, quite frankly, not your circus, not your monkeys so the proper response is to either ignore it or maybe the occasional "uh huh," "I see," "hmmmm," and so on... Since it is mostly apparently in the form of text messages or other writing, it is quite easy to simply ignore or read/delete/  there is no requirement for you to react/respond.

As for her not wanting to think about the financial side... well, DARN those pesky consequences of her actions and the associated responsibilities... she's going to HAVE to think about it...

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I don't feel anything about her cake-eating but on the other hand, it is an exceptional situation, so I'm stuck in between two sides. I also feel the urge saying: go to your OM with that as well, b***.

You are right that this is an exceptional situation. You are processing grief as well. In my situation, my sister-in-law was living with us and passed from terminal cancer. It was just terrible and she and I were close. In my situation, it was not her sister passing that caused the MLC, she was already involved with OM prior to that. It just made the situation worse.  I don't think that discussing the sister is necessarily off-limits, just compartmentalize any such discussion with your wife about your sister to your sister and if the conversation starts to drift, cut it off and go back to the subject of the sister.

I received some happy pictures of my daughter, they went to a fun fair.

How often is she with the daughter? If you have her most of the time, don't fret the times they are together. After all, this is less about her being a mother and more about her being a friend and your daughter accepting her new "friend" as she is.

Trust me, you need to be the adult and the father.  This is for your daughter and for you. Use this time to define who you are as a man and as a father. Remember, everybody is awesome during the good times, it's our actions during the challenges in life that truly define our character. Don't have contempt towards your wife, but do have love for yourself. Remember, you don't have to chop her down to build yourself up. She has made her choices and needs to live with the consequences of those choices. As UM wrote, her circus not yours. Let her live with her choices while you detach and focus on living your life as if she is not coming back. Detachment is the acceptance of many outcomes and regardless- you can accept an live with any of them.

Find moments of bliss for yourself, and bliss when you are with your daughter. These moments and reflecting on them will help you detach. Likewise, embrace the anger and delve into your anger. Anger is a masking emotion. Often my anger was masking my fear. Sometimes, it masked my hurt and sense of loss. What drives your anger? Journal it for your recovery and self-growth. I did not learn much about my ex during the crisis, but I learned a lot about myself. As you have posted, you came from a background of trauma. Have you resolved those issues?

You are very new to this and you will go from moments of "I will never leave her" to "I can't wait to be rid of her forever" will resonate. You will have some of the best days of your life and some of the absolute worse days. It's okay, that's why we are here to support you as you complete your journey.

Have a great day,

((((Ready))))

[palladian]

@Ready, great stuff, thanks. It is hard to navigate showing compassion when so much anger (masking hurt and betrayal for sure) is there. It also makes it more difficult to detach no?

My daughter has a week by week arrangement, something I hate her for, because she is taking 50% of time with her in the years that matter. Also, I know she will do additional mental damage. That being said, you are right of course, it is not about me but about my little girl.

I like the "you don't have to chop her down to build yourself up", I'll try to use that as a mantra because I know I'm prone to passive aggressive behavior, linked to childhood stuff. I'm seeing a psychologist, actively working on all that stuff, but will take some time of course.

Then again, I need to protect boundaries, she casually texted me yesterday "if we could have a chat about the house" in 2 hours over the phone. We agreed to discuss this on Sunday during a walk. I just answered "no". My health is still crumbling but doing the best I can to take care of myself. Will be a hell of a weekend: we first see a child therapist together, then there is a gym performance of the kid where we'll both be but be sitting separately and on Sunday, walking time to discuss property. Will report back Sunday evening probably, unless something pops up tomorrow which pushes my buttons too much. Wish me luck