[MadLuv]

Dragonfly-
I have learned what friends have a open mind and heart to my situation and where I can lean and where I need to zip it!! LoL. One thing I will say is I absolutely do not compare myself to my XH now wife. She is an affair down in every way and someone in his right mind he would not have been attracted to. She is insignificant to me. He is the only one that had the power to affect or hurt Me. So, that is where my work lies as you said it is all about them and has little to do with us. My XH has destroyed every aspect of his life and now is standing on a track with a train coming. I can no longer watch or take responsibility if he gets hit. I was trying to push him off that track for to long and I am exhausted. It rakes a long time for us to understand what the vets are trying to say. WE CAN NOT SAVE THEM or our love would have already.

[Treasur]

Sorry I missed your questions about PTSD, Dragonfly. Yes, I was formally diagnosed at the end of 2018 but tbh it was obvious before that even to me that what was going on with me was a) more than situational depression or short term anxiety and b) that it was not normal for me and c) it was not magically fixing itself despite my best efforts.  Looking back, my best guess - bc some chronology is still a bit fuzzy for me - that I had slid from depression into PTSD in 2017 probably. So at least a year before I sought help.

I had EMDR treatment, plus some other work by myself, off and on for a bit over a year. And then probably about another year before I felt like I no longer had PTSD as such, just the odd bit of residue. Hard to describe but there was a point when I just felt like I was post-PTSD rather than actively having it, sometime in late 2020 maybe?

The diagnostic symptoms are these https://cks.nice.org.uk/topics/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/diagnosis/diagnosis/

In my case, hypervigiliance was HUGE. I was either on red alert all the time (so the sound of a phone made me throw up for example), disassociated, concentration/memory was shot and my go to tactic was Avoidance lol. I was a big old mess, really barely functional. There is a line I think between symptoms of depression and anxiety and full blown PTSD. For me it was an issue of scale (how big it felt) and consistency (how often I felt that way). It was tbh unlivable with for me, like being stuck in a place where I was permanently terrified. Fear rather than fear if that makes sense. And I could not think my way out of a paper bag. Mostly I remember it as an intensely physical thing.... something I felt in my body rather than just thoughts in my head. It was horrific and I consider myself very fortunate to have got the right kind of help and to have survived it. I think most LBS have some amount of depression and anxiety but PTSD was a whole different ball game, like a lion compared to a cat lol

[readytofixmyselffirst]

I just had a text exchange with a good friend of mine and she said, probably my husband has finally found his passion which is the triathlon and his true love which is the Ow 3 since they have something in common and that is extreme sport. And maybe they will marry and will have kids.

I want to break down this statement because I had the same feelings in regards to my ex. She had found the perfect man and I could not compare. Therefore the affair was ultimately connected to my actions. I drove her to the affair and I was responsible for the mess. Yes, I did some bad things and I think we all do. It is called being human. However, my ex chose to become involved with another person. She lied about everything. She met OM behind my back, she had plans to leave me to live elsewhere with her sister, and she filed for divorce as soon as OM did.

As others have posted and I am going to add to the volume, your now ex's life and choices are no reflection of you or the marriage. He didn't get rid of you, he got rid of his life because he was miserable and dissatisfied with his world. You were just a casualty in his fire sale of his world. From my seat in the bleachers, he is self centered and his actions are about all about serving himself. He stayed with you because it gave him a place to stay. He feed you breadcrumbs and suffice to say, he is giving his new girl breadcrumbs as well. Trust me, he hasn't become less selfish since he left you.

My wife's ex is interesting as well. He was 18 years older than her and he never shared anything with her. She did everything on her own. He left my wife for a "Christian lady" who went to the same church. Of course, he lied to the new woman as well, he promised her kids even though he had a vasectomy years prior. Were they happy? No, not at all. My stepson lived with them for a year and said it was nonstop fighting. He also cheated on her as well. Why does he stay with her to this day? She pays the bills. She is taken in by his charm. He is a very good charmer.

Instead, regardless of what your h was, you have to think of him now. Would you be satisfied with sharing your life with this man as he is now? Once again, it is not the affair that is at the heart of this matter. Instead, it has to do with respect and trust. He doesn't respect you and despite all that you want to wish for, your are just an object in his world and with a little manipulation , he can keep you where he wants you to be.  You have lost all trust in what he says and what he does. Do you want to continue to exist in this world?

Some HS members have met up.  I had a lovely lunch one time with xyzcf and another member who no longer posts here.  That other member and I are FB friends still.

I have met some HS members as well. They are all really nice people and the two guys from SoCal where I live are really cool. Their wives are completely nuts for leaving them. I hope you have the opportunity to meet some of the LBSers so that you can realize that they are just like you. Just wonderful people like you that have had terrible things happen to them. The nice thing is after you meet them, you don't feel so alone.

As I have said before, you are going to thrive when you heal from all the trauma that you have endured. I honestly thought I would never be happy again. Instead, I am with a wonderful woman and we have so many good times together. You just never know what the future holds for you.

In the end, you are going to start a new chapter to your life and it is going to be amazing,

((((Ready))))

[xyzcf]

A long time ago there were actually meetups of LBSers. I was fortunate to travel to Luxemburg, Portugal, Leeds England, California (hi ready! ) New York. I also have a few LBsers who live close by and a few who travelled here to spend a few days.

I loved this ready:

I hope you have the opportunity to meet some of the LBSers so that you can realize that they are just like you. Just wonderful people like you that have had terrible things happen to them. The nice thing is after you meet them, you don't feel so alone.

It takes someone to plan a location and some commitment of LBSers. I did think it was beneficial for me in the early years and I encourage you to start a "off topic" thread and see if people are interested.

Ok, deep breath here xyzcf....I would caution posters from "promising" that life is going to be amazing....I have not found that to be true and I know others who as much as they do the work, GAL, make new friends, do yoga....there is still a deep wound, an emptiness and extreme loneliness ( and for some LBSers financial hardship as well).

ready wrote:

As I have said before, you are going to thrive when you heal from all the trauma that you have endured. I honestly thought I would never be happy again. Instead, I am with a wonderful woman and we have so many good times together. You just never know what the future holds for you.

In the end, you are going to start a new chapter to your life and it is going to be amazing,

Perhaps that will be the case for some, certainly falling in love again and having a partner might make the difference...my own experience is there are very few single men in any of the activities that I have participate in and the stories I have heard from girlfriends my age who have ventured on dating sites have been disturbing.

I do know a very small number of women who have remarried, but I would say, and I have no hard data to "prove" my hypothesis that many LBSers are alone...facing the reality as we get older of planning ahead as it will be on our shoulders to make sure we are taken care of should we need care.

On the old timers thread today, and in my contact with other long time LBSers life just isn't as fun or fulfilling. Holidays are difficult, finding someone to travel with is hard, when something happens like the mass shootings we are experiencing, there is no one to talk to, who understands the way he once did.

I know there are some members here who have no love left for their spouses, or whose marriages were perhaps not great to begin with and so they will have a different view than I do. There are also LBSers who truly enjoy being alone, but I am not one of them.

So, not to bring people down...but as I realize that we must be realistic about the few MLCers who return, we also must be realistic that we might not find that "happiness" that was so natural, so easy and so lovely which we had as a family, as a couple, as friends and lovers.

What I will add though is as you heal, the pain lessens. You will build a new life and there will be many things that you will do that perhaps you might not have done if you were still a couple. The circle of life continues and indeed we do not know what is ahead, which is a blessing really.

[Dragonfly33]

It was nice to hear that you have been able to travel to these countries to meet some of the LBS here. I believe that the wounds we have from the break down of our marriage will always be there. My mom has been separated from my dad for more than 30 years because my dad ran away with another OW. She didn't have any choice but to survive and she was not even thriving. She went through a lot of financial difficulties having to raise three daughters. But we say in my country, life is like a wheel, sometimes you're down sometimes you're up. And my mom is now very contented with her life. She said to me the pain as you said will lessen and one day you will forget about it. She is not friends with my dad but that's her choice. She doesn't have to.

I think therapy is very important and that's what I want to work on. That one day, I am able to put all these painful memories behind, learn from it and try not to do the same mistake. Me having a hard time letting go of my H even though he's disrespected me in so many ways definitely has something to do with my fear of abandonment. I was abandoned by both my parents a number of times and I promised myself that I will not happen to me when I get married. Now, I realized I am exactly in a situation where I do not want to be and the worst thing is I have no control over it. I just hope that I will be one of the many here that were able to have an amazing life after this. I know it's not going to fall on my laps and I know I have to work hard to get to that point. And if ever I will not find someone else, then I think I am also ok being alone.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Not to hijack a thread,

Perhaps that will be the case for some, certainly falling in love again and having a partner might make the difference...my own experience is there are very few single men in any of the activities that I have participate in and the stories I have heard from girlfriends my age who have ventured on dating sites have been disturbing.

I do know a very small number of women who have remarried, but I would say, and I have no hard data to "prove" my hypothesis that many LBSers are alone...facing the reality as we get older of planning ahead as it will be on our shoulders to make sure we are taken care of should we need care.

On the old timers thread today, and in my contact with other long time LBSers life just isn't as fun or fulfilling. Holidays are difficult, finding someone to travel with is hard, when something happens like the mass shootings we are experiencing, there is no one to talk to, who understands the way he once did.

I know there are some members here who have no love left for their spouses, or whose marriages were perhaps not great to begin with and so they will have a different view than I do. There are also LBSers who truly enjoy being alone, but I am not one of them.

So, not to bring people down...but as I realize that we must be realistic about the few MLCers who return, we also must be realistic that we might not find that "happiness" that was so natural, so easy and so lovely which we had as a family, as a couple, as friends and lovers.

I really thought about this and considered the angles. I want to emphasize that happiness is not about meeting my new wife. After bomb drop and the subsequent nightmare, I was devastated and I really felt alone. The forum and the others I met in real life helped me realize that I was not alone and this was something that happened to me, but it did not define me. I wasn't the guy whose wife was cheating on him. What's wrong with him? My exe's MLC happened, but I learned to tune out the other voices of blame and learned to tune into what I knew was true. This realization enable me to move forward even though I was alone.

I also found ways to be productive and this put me in a positive situation where I was helping other. I joined Rotary and supported my community. I rang the bell and stood outside a store raising money for the Salvation Army.  I just found ways to fill my life with service to push aside the moments of loneliness that crept into my head.

The last thing I did was to find joy in the mundane. The cup of coffee at Starbuck, setting a personal record at the gym, or just listening to a song on the radio, I found pleasure in being alive. I didn't need anyone to fill my cup; I could do it myself.

I write this because your chapter is not about finding happiness in someone else, it is about finding happiness within.

I hope this makes sense,

(((Ready)))

[Dragonfly33]

I totally agree with you Ready. Going through this MLC experience has taught me not to rely your happiness on other people. I’ve also learned to enjoy my own company which I was not able to before.
I learned to live by myself and it’s ok to be by yourself. I don’t deny the fact that sometimes I am still scared to end up being alone or sometimes I feel lonely being alone or even tired being alone. It’s not always a bed of roses but I appreciate those days where I can be happy being alone. I struggle a lot with my fear of being able to make it financially being alone and then I tell myself I am ok financially and I can do it.

Ready I heard from many people that helping others can help someone to heal and move forward because instead of focusing on your pain, you focus on helping other people and it is very rewarding to be able to make a difference in somebody else’s life in whatever form. Thank you for sharing your experience on what helped you heal. I appreciate hearing other people’s story on my thread.

Journaling:
On MLC front, it’s been very quiet. My H has been consistent with my  spousal support after I consulted the lawyer. I don’t expect him to pay for a long time but it helps me a lot with my financials. I have been postponing some of the things I need to do like inquiring about the masters I plan to take. For the last few months since my mother came over, I  didn’t do much thinking or even any action on what I’m going to do next to make sure I am ok in the future. I think during these last few months, I was able to just let it be because I was tired and exhausted to always be on a fight or flight mode. And I feel ok to not think about it for a while.

As for my H I haven’t heard from him anymore and I learned to stop checking on him or fretting on what he’s doing or who he is with. I can’t believe I’ve reached this point where I am ok not knowing what he’s doing or who he is with. One indeed learns to let things go. I gave up control over things I cannot control or maybe I just got tired. Lol. I think my life has been more peaceful now that he doesn’t contact me anymore. I don’t have this rollercoaster of emotions anymore. I think I found a good therapist now and it has helped me to  understand what I am going through. She told me that every time I start regretting the actions I did in the past, like allowing my H to cross my boundaries, I have to remind myself that at that time I was just not capable of protecting my boundaries because I wanted to save my marriage and I didn’t want to lose my H. And what’s important is now I am able to do a lot of things that I was not able to do before and that’s a big step. I mentioned to my therapist that every time I think of my H and every time I feel like I must have done something wrong for our marriage to fail and  or feel a huge urge of wanting my H back, i would tell myself my H died. It’s easier for me to accept that he’s gone if I tell myself he died so I can protect myself from being sad or resentful and then I just focus on the good part of our marriage. My therapist told me, that losing the old H that I knew, the one that I married  can also be like death. The death of the husband I married. The person he is now is not my Husband anymore and he is a totally different now. It helped me to think that way every time I start ruminating.

This doesn’t mean I don’t love my H anymore. I still love him and it’s really weird for the last couple of days I have been dreaming of him again. In some dreams I was reliving the pain and in other dreams, he was trying to get back with me. Maybe it’s just my brain processing as I still haven’t fully accepted that he is gone. There are days when I look back and tell myself, why the firetruck they I believe everything he said or allowed him to treat me that way and stayed for a long time. I then remind myself that at that time, I just wasn’t capable of seeing the reality that was in front of me. Now, I feel ok that he is gone but I know there will be days again that I wish this didn’t happen.

[Dragonfly33]

Journaling

My lawyer emailed me today informing me that the lawyer of my STBX wrote her a letter demanding her to have me signed the D agreement she and my STBX drafted. She demanded that my L send her the documents they required from me, but they themselves didn't send the documents my L asked of them. She threatened my L that if these documents are not provided at the end of the month, they will file the D in the court. My L already told me that I shouldn't signed the D form as they didn't send any financial documents we asked of them. I let my work colleague read it as she knows my story, and she told me, his L is trying to scare me and my L. By the sound of it, it looks like this is going to be a long D process. My friend told me to get the maximum for my own security in the future as my H is really playing dirty.

This whole MLC thing is really crazy that one cannot understand. My H was once a clinging boomerang after I moved out, then for about 3 months after he had the accident and after he initially contacted a lawyer to file the D, he came back to me professing his love. One would think he came out from the tunnel, but man I was wrong. He came back too early, and the moment he was living with me, nothing really changed. I had an H that was so preoccupied about his triathlon obsession, about being high up in the ranking list. I was almost non existent. The moment I kicked him out as it was too much for me to bear, he found another very young OW, who seems to be very supportive of him and his so called passion. Both of them seemed to be very happy together, which made me think that maybe he indeed found the person who is compatible with him (at BD he told me we were not compatible as I wasn't sporty like him). And now he found this girl who is as sporty as him if not even more sporty than him.  So I think maybe we were a wrong match after all. It's been 5 months now that my H hasn't contacted me anymore. This is the longest No Contact since BD. I was just very lucky that my mom came here to support me and at least I have someone to talk to when I come home. But she will be leaving in 5 days and then I am on my own again.

Today I asked myself if I really want to go through this long D process or I will just agree to their offer which is not the best but then I would at least be able to put this whole $h!te behind me. Sometimes I think maybe this marriage wasn't meant to last, maybe the affair was an exit affair as my H wasn't happy anymore with his life with me. And now, he seems to be very happy with his new found life doing his new found passion. I wonder if these MLCers are really happy after the D? or even with the life they have now. My H doesn't really have any vices as far as I know. He doesn't even drink alcohol anymore. He is just conscious about what he eats, it must be healthy. Last time I saw his picture he seemed really fit and happy. And me I struggled with the whole separation and I am having a hard time moving on without me. I really wonder how these people can move on really fast as if nothing happened. Is it just me? How can one jump into another relationship that fast?

For those who ended up in a divorce, how was it moving on? Did your ex spouse contact again? Or did they just disappeared without a trace? Do they even come to a realization of how devastating their actions were towards their spouse? I wonder if they were even truly remorseful or if they even realized how horrible their actions were towards the LBS.

[Father5]

      HI D33,

   I have two teenage kids with my ex. We don't communicate at all. I have been financially ruined and she seems to be traveling all over the world. I haven't seen one bit of remorce on her part.

    Fight for yourself and get as much as you can. I guarantee you he is going to do the same. Do it for yourself as you will look back and regrett not doing so. My ex tried every trick in the book to get out of a fair settlement. Including using my step S's medical issues to pull my heart strings. They will stop at nothing so please look out after YOU nobody else is going too.

[Ready2Transform]

Big hugs. Know that a lot of your feelings at this moment are probably related to being hit with this lawyer letter and spun a bit into anxiety. The energy is very heavy when these things happen and it makes us cycle. In a few days you'll have a fresh mind about how horrible he's being and how none of what he did is logical.

My H doesn't really have any vices as far as I know.

He's obsessed with his sport life and he cheats.  I don't want to say it like that, because it's still hard to view our former spouses that way when we had so much love for them, but this need for validation by younger women and his sport life is very much a vice. His version of "happy" and yours may not be the same thing, that's true, and you do deserve so much better than this situation. But don't put a mirror on what he's doing and invalidate your own life just because the reflections don't match right now. Your healing will get you on the other side of this, no matter the outcome with him. And you've got a good lawyer and others around you who know he's playing games and trying to push you to get a good deal FOR HIM but not for yourself. What is logical? What is best longterm? Only you and your attorney can really answer it, but know you are capable for all challenges that come.

My xH has reached out over the years, with more MLC nutso behavior. I don't have anything to do with him. Healing was not linear, and still sometimes I have growth opportunities from the experience. I am happy with me. My standards are really high so partners aren't really falling out of the sky, but that's not so much my main focus anyway right now. I know I am capable of being a healthy partner and loving again should I meet a match. But I trust myself again and my judgment, which is the real win. It was very hard to doubt my own mind and ability to discern truth and reality. If I can recover I know anyone can.