[Baxter1]

Acorn-

Thank you for dropping in and saying hi. Your story is giving me hope in my stand.
Happy Holidays!

[thissucks7788]

Wonderful Acorn.  I'm so glad to hear that things are continuing to go well and appreciate that you continue to update.    Maybe you can share some wisdom--

My H and I have been back for a year and a half.  While things are overall good, I notice that I still struggle with 2 main things.  One is my ability to get over the anger and injustice of what happened (recognizing that it is a crisis, but that is a logical explanation which doesn't seem to matter in this emotional feeling).  I'm not sure how to heal this part of me. Did you experience this? 

And two, this one is a bit strange--but I feel like I never really know H.  I think it's because I was so blindsided by what happened--that I have trouble ever feeling comfortable that I know what is going on with him. Doesn't seem to matter what he says/does because he did/said all of the right things up to the day I found the text messages to his EA.  So this may just be my sample of one and you didn't experience these same things. 

Anyway, please continue to update and I wish you and your family a wonderful holiday season!!
B

[Acorn]

Thank you, FW, Baxter and TS, for taking your time to comment.  Much appreciated!  I hope you found some joy and peace the last few days. 

……

May I offer my views on your queries, TS?

That he was in crisis not take away the reality that he made ill choices.

Being in crisis does not take away any accountability from him for those choices. (I must add that It was important for me to balance that with genuine empathy for H’s continuous deep pain.)

The fact that he was in crisis does not get to lessen or invalidate the depth of your hurt and anger.  You get to feel those emotions, though you are 100% responsible for your feelings and the way you deal with them.

The following comment is in general. It may or may not applies to you:

I would be mindful of ‘MLC made him do it’ point of view that may have crept in as part of coping mechanisms after coming across the MLC angle of looking at the situation.  I dare say that view risks diluting MLCer’s autonomy and self agency in your mind’s eye.  It is possible that POV may also function as the proverbial carpet to sweep some or all of his wrong doings under, though all the lumps and bumps are obviously there and you keep tripping over them and getting hurt.  Take that blanket away — behold, reality! — and the shape and the outline of the accountability of each person may become clearer to you.  We each own our choices, unless one is certified ‘insane.’  We also own our feelings of anger, hurt, disappointment, etc., regardless of what triggered them. When you realize they are yours, contained within your own sphere of mind, you have all the initiative and power to change, always keeping in mind to be gentle and loving toward yourself.

I hope you do not mind me sharing my own experience, a caveat being ‘sample of one’ and all that.

Once I changed my perspective, shedding the ‘crisis made him do it’ lens/carpet that obscured the full extent of H’s accountability, it cleared my vision so that I could come to see the reality of our situation (there is nothing ambiguous about ‘I’m not in love with you’).  And then, with my eyes clear, I made a conscious choice to let go of my resentment and anger toward H.  I could not make him love me but I could do something about releasing disappointment, anger and resentment from my heart.

I chose to forgive H.  The peace and quiet which followed that conscious decision continues to this day.  It was neither quick nor easy, and that’s an understatement.  It required a lot of reading, meditation, praying and numerous conversations with my 2 very wise and kind friends.

Following forgiveness (letting go of my anger and resentment, restoring good will and agape toward H without expecting him to reciprocate), I could see his pain more acutely and my empathy toward H increased. I must add here that I did not assume that he was in pain or confusion, just because I happen to have ‘diagnosed’ him to be in MLC and, therefore, he must be confused or in pain. H indeed was swirling in confusion and in deep pain.  I know this well because he revealed that to me many times.  He cried and wailed like a wounded beast caught in a trap. My heart broke each time and I cried with him….

…..

About you knowing what’s going on with him, what his innermost thoughts are:

Do we ever know a big chunk another person’s innermost thoughts? I don’t think we do or would we would ever wish to.  Perhaps, that’s not what you meant???

Might you be referring to the issue of ‘trust’ when you talk about the ‘not knowing’? If so, my sample of one, for what is worth, indicates that trust is built over a long period of time, consisting of numerous daily confirmations of trustworthiness which are invariably expressed in actions. In my view, remorse (guilt is feeling sorry for himself, remorse is for those he offended against) is the first step to building trust. H’s deep sorrow for my pain and that of our kids was plain to see and hear.  Consistent actions and attitude (words are cheap, indeed) followed to confirm the sincerity of his remorse, which then led to earning those precious trust points from us. 

It is my view that trust cannot be rebuilt without true remorse.  I would like think that remorse is visible in demeanour, behaviour and the amount of time spent in acts of kindness and service to those he offended, and not open to speculation. You will know when you see it. 

It is my experience that trust cannot be built without LBS’s acknowledgement, goodwill and grace toward MLCer.  Takes 2 to rebuild trust from scratch, to state the obvious.

May 2024 bring you peace and joy in your heart, TS.

((((HUGS))))

[marvin4242]

@Acorn thanks for sharing your view on MLC. I also believe it is incredibly destructive and infantilizing to just "blame" and put everything on "MLC."

First if you are hit by a car is the damage any less if you make up reasons why the driver aimed the car at you?

Second no matter what the "reasons" doesn't every adult get to choose how they behave and treat others? And aren't they responsible for the consequences of their actions? One of my personal tests for mental health is if a person connect consequences to their actions/choices. I find people who are not in a healthy place will find many ways and reasons to decouple the consequence from actions/choices (best example is addiction and behaviour of addicts). So I see a lot of a strange circle where the MLCer breaks this cycle and the LBS somehow joins them in "understanding" and making excuses for the behaviour.

[xyzcf]

I chose to forgive H.  The peace and quiet which followed that conscious decision continues to this day.  It was neither quick nor easy, and that’s an understatement.

What brought me to a place of peace was forgiveness and acceptance.

Understanding the concept of MLC helped me with forgiveness. Yes, the choices he made are totally his but the changes in his personality occurred with the crisis.

The changes in me from the damage done by his crisis have put me into a persona that for a long time I did not recognize. And the wounds caused are part of my makeup now.

I think remorse can only occur when healing has taken place....some people in crisis compartmentalize or are never going to show remorse...and I doubt that true healing has occurred.

What I found difficult initially, what had happened to him? With better understanding of the pathology and when I started seeing that MLC was a real thing, and  I was not alone in seeing these changes, understanding this allowed me to let go and focus on my own life.

I am thinking about soldiers who come back home suffering from PTSD. Spouses and families have to adjust to someone that is not the same as before they went to war. Some families will continue to show empathy and compassion, others will find it too difficult and will turn away......

Changes in hormones can also create a tremendous shift in a person, such as menopause which can continue for a decade or more and post partum psychosis and depression.....I see "similarities" in that the person isn't responsible for the biochemical and emotional changes that have happened.

My sample of one is that the crisis changed him. Others see it as well. Since we are not reconciled, there is no purpose in confronting him about the damage that he caused...does he see that? I am not sure he does......reconciliation cannot take place until he acknowledges his actions...and in some cases that never happens.

[Nas]

Changes in hormones can also create a tremendous shift in a person, such as menopause which can continue for a decade or more and post partum psychosis and depression.....I see "similarities" in that the person isn't responsible for the biochemical and emotional changes that have happened.

I am confused about the messaging here. Isn't the above a different version of "MLC made them do it"?

To follow on the idea that the MLCer isn't responsible for the biochemical or emotional changes that happen to them (and I would argue in most cases those changes are not facts, but guesses made by the LBS)...sure, technically that's true, and neither was I "responsible" for chemotherapy destroying my once extremely strong and capable body, rendering my physical self completely unrecognizable and throwing me head first into menopause overnight. But I was fully 100% responsible for my response to it, and if I had done anything to hurt or deceive anyone, I would not be off the hook simply by claiming extenuating circumstances.

Forgiveness can certainly be given freely by choice. It doesn't change the fact that the person you're forgiving is still responsible for their actions. But my understanding of Acorn's post was about accountability, of not excusing the behavior even when you forgive the behavior. To perpetuate the notion that "they don't know what they're doing, the MLC has taken over" is removing agency from your autonomous adult spouse. As was stated, that's often an early coping mechanism when we are trying to make sense of how things could change in our lives so quickly, or in some cases, how so much could be lost before we even knew to look for it. But reality is reality, what's happening is happening regardless of how we label it.

I don't need to forgive my husband for leaving me. Leaving in itself isn't unforgivable.(Sometimes the focus is so much on the leaving that the LBS defense mechanism is to overlook or “understand” all the other stuff in the hopes that they will reverse their leaving and everything will go back to normal… That’s I think part of that broken circle that Marvin spoke of.) I will never forgive the abuse, deception and destruction, though I have accepted that it happened, that it wasn't an overnight change even if it felt like it, and then I accepted that I can do nothing about it but delve into myself because no one was going to heal me but me.  That acceptance released his hold on me. He stopped hurting me when he disappeared and stopped actively making destructive choices that directly affected me. Once he was gone and I was left to stand in the rubble of his choices, any hurt I felt from him was my own projection and refusal to let go.  Not to take away from the tremendous pain they really do cause, but often we hold on and perceive continued hurt from them because it creates the illusion that they're still connected to us.  It's not easy to step away from "MLC is the cause, it's a process and I must watch the process unfold," but doing so keeps you in a sense from reclaiming yourself.  And if your hope is to have a chance to rebuild in the future, I would argue that mitigating as much destruction in the present is a prerequisite for that, and the only way to do that is to face the present reality that they are indeed responsible for their actions, you need to do what's best for you now without factoring in any perceived idea of/hope for their future needs, and they will need to hold themselves fully accountable before anything healthy can ever be constructed with them.

[thissucks7788]

Thank you so much Acorn for your wise words.  I'll be re-reading and digesting all of the information.  I think as it turns out, I'm not a very forgiving person (work in progress I guess).  I know that this will be a big key to inner peace though so I will keep working towards it.  Maybe I haven't really made the conscious choice to forgive yet deep down.  Almost like--if I forgive, I may forget (which I know will never happen) and then I will let my guard down which will make me vulnerable.  I don't know- just trying to figure it all out.

Anyway, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. Wishing you and your H a very happy and healthy new year!!!
B
xo
 

[Inanna]

Attaching, even though your updates will probably be less frequent, Acorn.
Just wanted to share this.
In the past weeks, I have read your whole journey, thread by thread, post by post. I thoroughly enjoyed reading the conversations, the updates, the ups and downs, the tangents here and there, the great GIFs UM brought in, etc.
I wanted to say that you truly inspired me, Acorn, to widen my mind to a lot more perspective, compassion, patience, and understanding.
I'm only 3 months after BD but your amazing threads — and of course, also thanks to the group of amazing readers who also took part in your thread — really helped me. Thank you, all of you. I'll probably re-read many parts of it because it's so full of gems and pearls of wisdom  Wishing y'all all the best for this coming new year!