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Author Topic: My Story living is an opportunity

F
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My Story living is an opportunity
#90: March 29, 2024, 05:49:29 AM
a bit of journalling

I had a discussion with my friend/lawyer last Sunday, he told me that W's lawyer called again to know my position, and he confirms she is wanting for a divorce. Then he told me that he will answer that I am thinking about it and he will stall the ongoing discussions.
The day after, I wrote a big letter to my lawyer to explain my current position :
- today I got 3 different versions of W's plans, so I don't know on which plan I have to give my position
- this is an additional confirmation to me that W is under MLC
- I want to LET GO and LET GOD (yes I used also the English words ), and I don't want to give the impression that we are stalling anything
- I trust him what to communicate, what not to communicate, and when.
- before giving my position, I want to get a full proposition from W taking in account everything : children care, living arrangements, financials, alimony, etc...

The days are quiet at home. D17 and D15 are sometimes mildly-monstering : teenage crisis, what else ? I feel W is guilty : she is not monstering at all, almost walking on eggshells ; she participates to the conversations that the girls are initiating with me ; she cooks more than usual ; after 10 days she refunded the swiss travel plane ticket : confirmation to me I was right not to react when she used our common account for this expense.

A common friend from 23 years is currently at home during 5 days. W and I met together at her birthday and she is the godmother of D17. I am not sure that W remembered this visit despite oral messages and text from me 1month+ ago ; as my new usual I have prepared everything, groceries, meals, cleaning house, cleaning guest room and bed (matrimonial BR actually because W is still in the guest room), taking day off during her days here.
Now that she is in our house, W is doing her best (the best that she is capable of, let's say) and she participates to the common tasks and common times. Our friend asked me really fast if W is unwell, and she told me she sees W is withdrawn. I said nothing else, I just confirmed that W is unwell. What is strange to me is that W is not talking about her "plans", but the facade is totally cracked anyway.
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M 44, W43. Married 18 years, together 21
3 children D17, D15, S6
OM discovered Dec 22, BD Jan 23 (few days after)
W still living at home
Aimer, c'est donner sans attendre de retour et tout acte est prière, s'il est don de soi (Antoine de Saint Exupéry)
Love means to give without expecting return, and every act is a prayer if it is a self-gift. (thanks OffRoad !)

M
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living is an opportunity
#91: March 30, 2024, 06:06:03 AM
Quote
Our friend asked me really fast if W is unwell, and she told me she sees W is withdrawn. I said nothing else, I just confirmed that W is unwell
  for what it’s worth, I have found that when others noticed without a word from me, but just what they observed  them selves to be a small comfort and confirmation that it is them.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

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Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
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F
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living is an opportunity
#92: April 01, 2024, 12:43:54 AM
Quote from: MadLuv
  for what it’s worth, I have found that when others noticed without a word from me, but just what they observed  them selves to be a small comfort and confirmation that it is them.
Thanks Madluv for your comment. Yes it is a comfort for me to know I don't need to tell people what is our situation and that I don't need to justify myself with words. Talking about our situation leads easily to badmouthing W, and I don't like to do it. Not talking, in a way, is also part of "paving the way". And yes, the words of friends and acquaintances is a confirmation that I am not the issue or the root cause of the issue.
W and our friend have spent a day together to do tourism activities, and without me asking, our friend told me that W remained withdrawn and did not confide.   And she told me that there are difficult periods in life, deserts, that we are a nice family and I was right to do what I do. Difficult for me to translate the exact words, it was something more emotional than word-expressed, again a comfort for me to hear these words.

D17 and her godmother reconnected smoothly and it was good for me. After her departure, D17 asked me what is wrong between her godmother and her husband (they are separated), I told her this is an adult story (I did not want to give to her the details and the confidences). Then D15 said : it is a forties crisis (MLC) and D17 told "no it is a fifties-crisis" (MLC too).
According to our friend and her observations, D17 and D15 are sparing their mother : they turn their aggressiveness towards me. What I understand is that, during their teenage crisis, they need a stable parent that they can confront. I agree with what she says, and I am glad to be mentally stable enough to bear a lot. To be true, their teenage crisis is mild and we have also a real complicity, so I don't complain and I would'nt change my position with anybody.
 
For Easter I have one reconciliation story to tell. During Easter Vigil I saw there was a woman some benches behind me. She is "managing" the catechism activities in our previous parish ; 6 years ago she was very upset at me so I left my volunteer activity in catechism. I tried to reconnect and reconcile with her at this time but it was impossible, so I prayed for her.
During the mass of Easter Vigil, I had the intuition that it was the right time to be bold, and I chose to move in her direction during the gesture of peace time. She welcomed my peace kiss with a beautiful smile. I am very glad I did it.
Next day during Easter lunch I told to the family what I had done as they knew the story from 6 years before. W sneered a bit but I don't care. I do it for me.

Just last words of journaling to confirm the recurring pattern : after first day of me + children doing everything during guest visit, W took back her role of house mistress, she made groceries and cooked very good meals. And as she is a better cook than me and the children have given a hand, we ate like hobbits. The daughters told me that they feel eating like rich people  ;D.
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M 44, W43. Married 18 years, together 21
3 children D17, D15, S6
OM discovered Dec 22, BD Jan 23 (few days after)
W still living at home
Aimer, c'est donner sans attendre de retour et tout acte est prière, s'il est don de soi (Antoine de Saint Exupéry)
Love means to give without expecting return, and every act is a prayer if it is a self-gift. (thanks OffRoad !)

B
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Re: living is an opportunity
#93: April 03, 2024, 02:21:09 AM
FH-
It seems we are on the same path in some ways. W is slowly coming back, she is slowly getting t back into cooking and groceries. She’s home a lot more and doesn’t stay out all night any more.
I’m not reading anything into this but it just seems interesting.
Sorry your W is wanting a divorce. Sounds like it will be a challenge, dealing with someone who changes their mind daily will be tough! Good Luck
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F
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living is an opportunity
#94: April 10, 2024, 12:16:52 AM
Hi B1, yes we could laugh of the similarities btwn our Ws if the story was not a destruction of our families. High energy vs low energy ? Same craziness, same timeline until now.

So a bit of journaling for today
Last week W talked to D17 and D15 during my absence, and told them that I said they will come with me, said the lawyer. So they were upset at me and talked to me aggressively. They complained also that they were not informed about the divorce. So I told them that W talking without me knowing was unfair, then I told them about the OM. During 16 months I have been able to protect them about that shock, and I wanted to continue to protect them. But I am relieved I finally unloaded  the information, it was too heavy for me.
For D17, it was a shock and she did'nt want to believe me. D15, I think, was already aware of the situation.
 
Then W joined our discussion and the daughters blamed both of us. During this convo, the daughters behaved like adults ; W and I were more like teenagers.
D15 asked me about my position on divorce, I said we were free when I married, and W is free to leave the marriage : I will let her go.
I was blamed for snooping and I said I stopped and that makes me no good.
D17 and D15 blamed W for not talking at all, locking herself in the room and always phoning in Africa. W said she will make efforts.
I said then that the minimal politeness (hello, thanks) is important for me, and I don't want to be ignored as if I were a piece of furniture or an animal. W then said that she gave me the choice for the days with S6. I said I don't remember her giving me this choice. And she talked about the sale of the appartment.

The next days, W said hello to me, but made no effort for the daughter request ( :o) : she continues to lock herself in the bedroom and rarely talk to the girls. D17 and D15 are still very close to me after the big discussion : they come to me for their concerns and their daily needs.
I talked with my lawyer who said to me that he did'nt say to W's lawyer that the daughters will come with me. I don't know who lied in this story, I understand that W was afraid that I talked to the girls behind her back. Well I did'nt.

Yesterday W asked me for a talk today, I said : about what ? And W said "about everything". This is totally new since more than 1,5 year : W initiating a discussion and warning me before. So this evening I will do my best to be quiet and listening. I expect mainly a discussion about W's "projects".
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M 44, W43. Married 18 years, together 21
3 children D17, D15, S6
OM discovered Dec 22, BD Jan 23 (few days after)
W still living at home
Aimer, c'est donner sans attendre de retour et tout acte est prière, s'il est don de soi (Antoine de Saint Exupéry)
Love means to give without expecting return, and every act is a prayer if it is a self-gift. (thanks OffRoad !)

K
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living is an opportunity
#95: April 10, 2024, 01:17:39 AM
I love your honesty FH. Your self-reflection emanates from your journalling. I can imagine you feel some relief from losing the burden of 'holding' your W's secret from your Ds, but I guess this is a turning of a new page and will have its own challenges. It's movement though - better than bitter stagnation I suppose. I wish you luck with the Everything Conversation :-X
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H
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living is an opportunity
#96: April 10, 2024, 09:47:55 AM
I am sorry that your kids have to go through this.  It is so hard, and I understand how it is both a burden, but also something you want to do.  Fathers are so important in their children's lives.  I know, as a society, we talk about the importance of the mother, but Fathers are so greatly needed.  It has been hard for me to watch what has happened with our children, but I know I can't control it.  I just worry about the future impact.  I think you are doing a great job of maintaining balance and stability for them. 

Not doing anything is so hard sometimes.  I told one of my few friends that knows of our situation and supports my stand that I feel like a crazy person for not doing anything when I feel like I am living out a reality TV show. 
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F
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living is an opportunity
#97: April 11, 2024, 06:37:48 AM
thank you KD and HL for your nice comments, yes you totally get my points. I am glad the situation is moving forward. What you write about the "burden" of being a father makes me think to an old story, a little girl in Africa getting this comment : "how this burden on your back must be heavy !" She answers "it is not a burden, he's my little brother"

So yes, I get sometimes blames from the daughters because there are ants in the kitchen or because I am preparing too often the same meal. But on the other hand I am really happy to be a father, I am happy I am enough stable to endure the rigors of the children crisis and I am happy for the many little things I get from the children in our daily life . Please forgive my father's pride as I write here below 3 recent examples from last 24 hours.

Yesterday evening S6 asked me to stay in his bed a few minutes after the presleeping activities. I had foreseen he would ask and I wanted to pray a few minutes in order to prepare myself for THE conversation. And what happened ? S6 told me he wanted to pray, so we prayed together. A little thing that gives me tears of joy.
This morning during the breakfast D15 was upset because the English teacher had given homework at last minute (using stupid online agenda). So she asked me about the Constitution of the USA, the federal government, the governor's powers and the amendments. While she answered on the paper the teacher's questions, we had a deep conversation about the US Constitution : according to D15, the original writers did not plan that their text would be still used more than 200 years after, and their style is basic and heavy compared to the "Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen de 1789" (her opinion ;D). After I gave to D15 the classical examples to distinguish state law and federal law (death penalty, abortion rights, 2d amendment), we discussed about the stakes of next US presidential election regarding abortion right.
And to finish, D17 wanted me to read her philosophy examination paper on violence and war in society for which she had the best mark in the whole high school.

THE conversation
the conversation with wife went well (4 four-letter words beginning with W  ;D!). As I expected, under a nice wrapping of "the children are at the center and my priority", all the discussion was in fact "I, me, and myself". We have been able to listen to each other and keep the tone quiet during more than 2 hours, and I am glad about it. Whatever the future, it is good that we can discuss serenely.
Now I know more about W's projects : she wants to "progress professionaly" and work in Switzerland, and "the relationship is finished". Meaning = she wants to get more money and fly from her associate.
W gives me 3 choices for the next step : either legal separation, amicable separation/divorce or judicial divorce. But in the end she is still targetting divorce
And regarding the child custody, W gives me now the choice (in regard to my professional life) : either she takes care of S6 (and D15 now) during 3 days a week, either we split 1 week / 1 week.
Regarding living arrangement, W's proposal is to live in our house when she takes care of the children until she has the money to buy her own house. Regarding the shared real estate, W's opinion is same as mine : she wants to sell the appartments and to keep the house. I said first that I want to keep the house, then W said that if I wouldn't, she would keep this house.

I see clearly that W finally realized  what is the roadblock for a divorce (and ending coliving) : the sale of at least our biggest appartment. When we sell it, we should get enough money so that she can buy her own house and I can refinance the mortgage and buy W's share of the house. Assumption being W not too much greedy  ;). The main difficulty is that the housing market is in poor state. Since 1 month the appartment is on sale and from what I know there has been no visit. Lowering the already low price might not bring a buyer. For the record W has not signed the formal authorization to sell  ::). MLC, what else ? ::)

W told me that I should not say that she is abandoning the children. In fact I did'nt say it to her (her mindreading is right) and I am glad I did not point out that she plans to abandon our children at least half of the time.

During the convo, I talked more than I expected and I am glad I did : for the first time I highlighted what went wrong in our relationship from the beginning. I told W that her repeating many times that the relationship is broken sounds to me as if she is trying to convince herself and I repeated to her that I have accepted it since long. I said that the breakdown of the marriage has been in some ways a deliverance for me and I said what I expected from a new relationship.
And W thanked me for saying all that (again, something new)

During our friendly chat, I saw many small signs that W is not so absolute as her words. First she listens very carefully to what I say, e.g. she reported out of nowhere some (not all) of "my" past projects, clearly a reference to a previous conversation where I told W that I supported her projects and she did'nt support mine, and when she had asked me which projects I was talking about I had told her she should know. Then, even if I am not good to see the non verbal signals, I saw many small points showing connection between us and W mirroring my gestures and moves. In hindsight, the discussion turned into a relationship convo and went well : it is a huge progress.

Now what do I do with all those informations ? What do I do with my Standing ? I will talk again with my lawyer, and I will talk with myself  ;D, then I will slowly take some decisions. In the short term I will stay in the house with the children 100% of the time : very good news  ;D, and for the future I see big hope that I can keep the house and take care of the children at least 50% of the time : not so bad for minimizing losses :)

To the vets : does someone remember this kind of half coliving arrangements ? And, anecdotally, in which category should I switch when W will make her move : Keeps moving in and out ? Or Home but travels for work ?

Last minute information : as it was not clear, I asked W what is her future plan for S6 and the daughters and where she plans to live when she has the money. W says that she wants to bring at least S6 with her, near the Swiss border or in Swiss. She says it is a point to be discussed. W was not happy when I pointed that this information was not clear from her words after evening discussion, and my question turned quickly in a fight that I stopped quickly. Clearly the state of mind is very different btwn yesterday evening and today. A new bit of information that I have to integrate.
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M 44, W43. Married 18 years, together 21
3 children D17, D15, S6
OM discovered Dec 22, BD Jan 23 (few days after)
W still living at home
Aimer, c'est donner sans attendre de retour et tout acte est prière, s'il est don de soi (Antoine de Saint Exupéry)
Love means to give without expecting return, and every act is a prayer if it is a self-gift. (thanks OffRoad !)

H
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living is an opportunity
#98: April 11, 2024, 08:00:01 AM

To the vets : does someone remember this kind of half coliving arrangements ? And, anecdotally, in which category should I switch when W will make her move : Keeps moving in and out ? Or Home but travels for work ?


I have the same problem to a certain extent.....I don't feel like mine moves in and out.  He moved to RV, which is really not a permanent setting, and only took enough for a trip.  We are not formally separated and most people don't even know we don't live together all the time.  He has spent an increasing number of nights at home.  Sometimes I think he stays at the RV because he wants to sleep in the next morning, but also because he is still in replay and the mindset that he said he doesn't want to live at home--even though all of his actions say most of the time that is where he wants to be.   I do believe some of the shine has worn off the life, but he isn't ready to admit he was completely wrong yet (he's admitted he was partially wrong in that he did say he wasn't in love with me, but now says he does love me very much). BUT, anyway, I don't feel like moving in and out is quite right, I don't really feel like we are separated, we aren't in the process of divorcing, and the majority of our life is still connected. I feel like maybe there needs to be an option like, in flux, changing, or "It's complicated" option.
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M-23y T24y
Me 47
H-49
S20,D16,D11
BD1 9-21 BD2 9-22 Atomic Bd3 & ILYBNILWY 2-23
Moved to RV 5/2023
OW Discovery 7/23
Touch and Gos since 6/23

 

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