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Author Topic: MLC Monster Question/ observation

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MLC Monster Question/ observation
OP: June 20, 2010, 07:03:06 AM
I had a question/observation...it appears that in most cases, atleast on this site, that most of the time a divorce is requested by the MLC'er right at the beginning of their journey.  .   I am curious as to why that may be.   Can anyone offer any insight to this or am I incorrect.   It just appears to be the case.     
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Re: Question/ observation
#1: June 20, 2010, 07:06:47 AM
Actually it' not the case. Many MLCers may verbalize wnating a divorce, but they go no further and take no action. Some say nothing about divorce and are shocked if the LBS asks. I've noticed that it seems like there are a lot of at-home MLCers on this forum and a lot of low-energy MLCers which may manifest with less overt Replay Monster behaviours.

But I don't have time to read all or even most threads, so I get a bit here and a bit there--which is probably all anyone gets.
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Re: Question/ observation
#2: June 20, 2010, 07:16:21 AM
RCR -  I guess it just looks like with the 3 or 4 of us on here... it seems like we were served  in the early stages.   I am expecting papers next week, myself and my MLCer does not have an OW,  guess I am just looking for answers that are not there... UGGG
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Re: Question/ observation
#3: June 20, 2010, 07:21:51 AM
Baxter,

My H tried to start divorce proceedings right away, after saying that he wouldn't.  He stopped, partly because I wouldn't accept the grounds that he made up and said that if he was so determined I knew I couldn't stand in his way, but then I would file. (which meant that I would have to show grounds...  not pretty.)   I now also know that it was a time when alienator at the time had turned out to be a nutter, and he didn't know what he was feeling.  He had completely broken down in front of me, and I wrote to say that I had a meeting to write the divorce petition, and would do as he wanted me to, i,e, to ahead, postpone, cancel, in light of what he had said.  He asked me to cancel, and hasn't brought it up since. 

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Re: Question/ observation
#4: June 20, 2010, 07:33:10 AM
Hi Baxter
Thankyou for your post on my thread it helps to feel supported. My h hasn't mentioned the D word but I talked to him once about getting a deed of Seperation don't know if you have the same over there. Basically its not a Divorce but sorts your finances out. When I told him what i was expecting from it he never mentioned it again and is still paying most of the bills. That does make me feel a bit insecure though because if he changed his mind I would be in a dire stuation.
Not sure if its guilt or keeping an option open. He's a mild mLCer and maybe its the more high energy ones who want to make the dramatic statements? Just a thought.
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Re: Question/ observation
#5: June 20, 2010, 07:56:46 AM
Baxter

I understand where you are coming from and I think a key word that you used is "requested" (RCR used the word "verbalized").  The deal with MLC is that we must use words like many, most, and some because each MLCer is different (yet the same).

Now, because of my situation, I tend to lean your way on this Baxter.  For me, the request or verbalization of a divorce was the bomb drop.  That is when I heard the MLC lingo...."I've always doubted our marriage", "I want to find somebody more like me", "I don't feel fulfilled", etc.

I do believe this, and it's just my belief.  I believe that women going through MLC are more likely to actually go through with a divorce than men.  This belief I have is based on my belief that women and men may handle "Covert Depression" differently.  While looking at "Covert Depression", I found it's mostly information about how men process depression.  I am not saying that women don't have affairs, or drink, or gamble, or whatever.  What I am saying is that women tend to be more introspective with their depression earlier in the MLC process.  I believe that may be why females tend to move through MLC quicker than men based on the averages we know about.

I have even wondered if going through with a divorce is a form of "Covert Depression" for women in MLC.  There may be no correlation whatsoever, I don't know.  However, as I look at the generalized time frame for the MLC journey, the average length for MLC in men may be up to twice as long as for women.

That has led me to ponder these questions (again...I don't have the answers, just the questions).

Does a female MLCer have more of a desire early in the MLC process for "time alone"?
Is the "Covert Depression" element of Replay why MLC in men may last longer than in women?
Did we really land a man on the moon (....just joking)?



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Re: Question/ observation
#6: June 20, 2010, 08:18:54 AM
.....a little tidbit I forgot to put in my last post.

I have read on this site that Replay is running.  Other places I have seen the word escape used.  What has led me to think about this (other than being directly affected) is that I believe you can lump many of these actions into the "running" or "escape" part of MLC, which is in Replay.

These actions may include one or more of these by the MLCer:
Affairs
Physical Separation
Divorce
No contact or limited contact

For example, one situation may be an affair and physical separation.  Another (like mine) is physical separation and divorce, but no affair.  Some MLCers are still at home, but may be having an affair and limited contact with their spouse.
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Re: Question/ observation
#7: June 20, 2010, 10:01:42 AM
This question about male vs female mlc is interesting.

I have a female friend going through what I think is a whopper of an mlc; a lot of what I see in her is similar to what I see men doing, but there are also noticeable differences.  It's odd, because this is a family to whom we were/are quite close, but it also gives me an interesting perspective. 

She is doing an interesting mix of behaviours; the biggest similarity between her and the behaviour we 'assign' to men in mlc is the blaming of her H -- she says that she has no choice, he has forced her hand.  She really wants to have her cake and eat it in many ways. 

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Re: Question/ observation
#8: June 20, 2010, 10:15:20 AM
Saying that her husband has "forced her hand" is indeed textbook MLC talk.  I heard basically the same thing from my wife....that it was MY fault that she feels the way she does, and that divorce is the only answer....in other words, she wants the divorce, but I am the cause.

That's why I am curious if the act of divorcing can be part of "Covert Depression".  Divorcing has allowed her to "run" and at the same time place the blame for it on me.  So, with the divorce done about 6 months into Replay, we'll see what happens from here.  Will the divorce help her move through Replay, or will other Replay type actions now come?  I don't know.

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Re: Question/ observation
#9: June 20, 2010, 01:20:33 PM
Rather than using "forced his hand"   I got the "you left me no choice"  ...basically the same.   I too wonder if its Covert Depression.    MY H is no affair(that I know of atleast) and lots of drinking and hanging out with 27 year olds from work, partying, happy hours,  lying, now NC more or less, and physical separation since January.    I have  also, wondered like you have, DGU, if the D may cause them to hit rock bottom, when they see what they have lost physically, emotionally, financially, etc..and move them even just a bit thru the tunnel.   

I also have a female friend who went thru a midlife transition I would say..she had an affair, got boobs, lost weight, blamed her H for everything.   They are now divorced( at the end of the day its more because they are 2 completely different people, not the ML transition).  She actually went to IC and fixed herself and realized she was also accountable.   Just throwing that in FWIW. 

Trust  & Love, are you saying that when you "counter" sued him for D he dropped it?
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Re: Question/ observation
#10: June 20, 2010, 03:09:27 PM
Even with the divorce, I am not expecting my ex-wife to hit rock bottom soon.  If there is a silver lining to the divorce, it is that perhaps now she can put that decision behind her.  From everything I understand about MLC, the MLCer does not really like to have to make decisions.  If they do have to make a decision, the decision they make will typically be whichever answer allows them to continue running away.

So now that the divorce is done, she no longer has to think about that as far as a "decision to make".  She's "free" now....she has her freedom and will expect the emptiness, confusion, doubts, and anxiety of MLC to go away.  But will they go away?  In my belief based upon Christianity, not only will those things not go away, but a whole new set will come (of the same emotions).  I think this new set is what will eventually take her toward Liminality.  I don't know when and that doesn't matter right now.  She's only about 6 months into Replay, so she will probably keep running from these emotions for a while yet.  But eventually, her beliefs and emotions will collide.....and I believe that's when the face of Liminality can start to manifest itself.

Baxter....it sounds to me like your friend may have had a crisis.  This is not meant as a rebuttal from me, but I do voice my opinion on it.  The "we're two different people" line is hollow.  Every couple is two different people.  To me, it's disrespecting your spouse.  In a healthy marriage, the spouses know how to use their differences to complement the other spouse.  It's also a sign that the couple is not co-dependent.  Just my opinion...
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Re: Question/ observation
#11: June 20, 2010, 03:19:37 PM
My H threatened divorce right after he moved out.  I told him that I did not want a divorce and that I would fight him every step of the way.  He then backed off for awhile, claimed that he didn't have the money to file for divorce.  I then told him that if he really wanted a divorce I would file all he had to do was admit that he was involved with OW.  That never happened either.  Now almost 1-1/2 years since he moved out there has been no legal action taken whatsoever.  H has said to other people several times that he will have the money for the divorce soon...yeah, right.  The only people that seem to support him are his S & BIL, friends at work and of course the OW.
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Re: Question/ observation
#12: June 20, 2010, 07:31:35 PM
Apparently the D papers will be delivered tomorrow for sure according to what H told my friend who talked with him today.   In my state there is a 90 cooling off period (just time to figure things financially, or in the marriage etc) .  When my friend asked well are you going to work on the marriage during that time( which we all know is pointless, but he asked anyway)  H said, well I don't know, you never know what can happen.  Ya, he's sure he is making the right decision.   

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Re: Question/ observation
#13: June 20, 2010, 07:44:30 PM
Sorry to hear about that Baxter.  I'm on the back end of that now with the divorce itself being done.  The only thing I'll pass along to you is to continually keep in mind that the MLC process is longer than the divorce process.  Some MLCers don't file....some do....mine did.

During the "cooling off" period, my MLCer and I did have several discussions, went to counseling, and she went back and forth on what she wanted to do.  But again, the way MLC works, the "cooling off" period before divorce just wasn't enough time for MLC to run it's course.
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Re: Question/ observation
#14: June 20, 2010, 07:53:34 PM
Hey there -  I know...I am well aware of the freakin timing and how  its just not enough time, but  I guess you never know.    I know there are tactics I can employ to prolong it as well..ie, having no discussions about financials, and no resolutions on that etc.  That could put if off another 6 weeks or so.  I could do that same again, and buy another 6 weeks.  Ideally, I can push it to January time if I really just did nothing and sat on it.    That could infuriate the monster though..although, apparently, he's pretty calm and cool now.  What an act.   

Wondering if he is expecting me to call him up crying...sorry, that's not going to happen.   And another thing,  he told me last week that I was getting them this coming week.  He told my friend that I think they are coming the following week...talk about MLC memory lost...idiot, he just told me the other day. 
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Re: Question/ observation
#15: June 20, 2010, 07:58:54 PM
My H moved in with OW in Dec.09 , Filed for D in Jan.10. He is still living with her and has never looked back. He told me to NEVER contact him again and I haven,t. He seems to be happy with OW. We go to court in 2 months for D. He said he just wanted to get it over with. The only reason it has taken so long to go to court is because I wouldn,t sign D papers in Jan. and I hired an atty. So yes some do file right after BD. At least in my sitch. He seems to have no regrets.
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Re: Question/ observation
#16: June 20, 2010, 08:05:40 PM
Hi Hurt01 -   Sorry about your sitch.      He seems to have no regrets....atleast none at the moment..right.      That could change at some point, but only god knows when that will be.   
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Re: Question/ observation
#17: June 20, 2010, 08:13:23 PM
Hurt01

I don't remember your situation in depth, but I do recall how quickly your husband was moving.  I'd like to offer a small bit of encouragement to you.  It is my belief that divorce can be a part of Replay.  Divorce is "running away".  The encouragement I have for you is that although your husband seems to have no regrets, it's too early to proclaim that.

Some encouragement out of the articles section is that your MLCer is going to do everything he can while in Replay (and possibly beyond that) to make sure he "seems" happy to you.  Perhaps he is right now, but like all things associated with MLC.....things change.
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Re: Question/ observation
#18: June 20, 2010, 08:41:20 PM
Baxter & dontgiveup

Thank you for your reply and encouragement. I really need it today. Both my kids told me today, mom dad has moved on so get over it.
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Re: Question/ observation
#19: June 20, 2010, 08:53:54 PM
That is sad to hear, but as you know it's not unusual.  Kids & MLCers are similar in that how somebody feels and what they say today is gospel.  To most kids and most MLCers, the "future" is about 1 hour from now.
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Re: Question/ observation
#20: June 21, 2010, 12:10:55 AM
Baxter,

I didn't exactly counter-sue; where we are you have to have grounds for a divorce in the first 2 years, i.e. one has to accuse the other of 'unreasonable behavior'.  What I did was write back (through L) to say that I didn't admit to those accusations, but that if he was so determined to divorce then I couldn't stand in his way (was very definitely advised not to contest, as here that means a trial, and basically just costs huge amounts of money without stopping the divorce) and if I had to be divorced then it would not be on lies, and that I would be the one to file.

That would have meant that I would have had to accuse him of things.  I had told him that putting such accusations about me on public record was a cruel act, and that I would have given him many qualities, but never cruelty.  That really hit him hard; he doesn't like to be thought of as bad. 

It never got that far; somewhere during that time he broke down and said that he was a mess, was miserable, had no one to talk to, all that.  I then wrote to him saying that he should know that I had a meeting to take the petition further, but that given what he had told me I would do what he wanted, i.e.  go ahead, postpone, or cancel.  He said to cancel, as he didn't know what he felt. 

I now know that that was around the time he realized that the alienator who had precipitated him leaving was a total nutter, but it could also have been the thought of being accused that stopped it.  H has always had a fear of being thought the bad guy or the villain in this, he has said so in those words. 

He has never picked up the action, even though at this point accusations would no longer be necessary.   When our daughter asked him back in the fall if he was going to divorce me, he told her that he would 'at some point'. 

Who knows.

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Re: Question/ observation
#21: October 04, 2010, 06:34:50 AM
Just bumping this up......some insight into how much has changed in Baxter's situation.
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Re: Question/ observation
#22: October 04, 2010, 06:43:34 AM
My H told me and our kids that he wanted a divorce on the day he left. (6 weeks ago).
One week later when asked if he wants a divorce, his response is "I can't answer that question."
No talk of it since.
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Re: Question/ observation
#23: October 04, 2010, 07:24:54 AM
My H filed the same day he left town to parts unknown. To him, it wasn't a bargaining chip. D seems to represent a ticket to freedom and independence. Though without a job, I don't know how H will fund that independence.

I'm also noting the vast change in Baxter's sitch since this thread was first posted.
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Re: Question/ observation
#24: October 04, 2010, 07:43:30 AM
My H asked 2 weeks ago I told hime he would have to handle it and he has not mentioned it again nor to my knowledge has he contacted the attorney
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Re: Question/ observation
#25: October 04, 2010, 07:44:04 AM
RCR -  I guess it just looks like with the 3 or 4 of us on here... it seems like we were served  in the early stages.   I am expecting papers next week, myself and my MLCer does not have an OW,  guess I am just looking for answers that are not there... UGGG
I will point out another part of this that changed, was that she thought there was no OW.
Turns out there was one.

Not that it really matters at this point, but it could have been another reason he was asking for a divorce.
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Re: Question/ observation
#26: October 04, 2010, 11:09:03 AM
Just posted an update to my thread and that is the major thing I have noticed in my sitch.  My wife could have filed on August 26 and and said she was going to file back on June 8th and I never mentioned it again until September 9 when I asked where our relationship stood.........still I have seen nothing. 

I researched it, at this point either one of us could file and it would cost approximately $167.  I don't think my W knows how to do it herself and would enlist the assistance of a lawyer which I definitely know she does not have the money for.  I have determined that I am not going to say anything else about it again.

Maybe I will get a chance to introduce her as my "wife" when we go for parent/teacher conferences in the next 2 weeks.  I am not sure how I am supposed to intoduce her when we are together.  Kind of funny actualy.

Cheers
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Re: Question/ observation
#27: October 04, 2010, 01:29:00 PM
My w has never asked for a divorce but has brought it up often. She also will tell me that she does not want a divorce but if she had to make a choice right now, she would choose a divorce. Talking about being confused. I keep postponing any talk of a d because it takes six months from the time you file to completing if the divorce is uncontested. However, if I contest it, it could take longer especially if the courts become involved.

My hope is that through IC, she may have some time to give up OM, deal with the withdrawals and come back to reality. I think my situation is difficult because she is in love with a fantasy. As long as this person is a fantasy and I am real, fantasy will beat out reality everytime.

Of course, things could change if the OM starts to get pushy or if his w finds out. Who knows because I don't want to intrude and for all I know, his w could be in on this whole thing. It is too bizarre for me to figure out or even try to understand.
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Re: Question/ observation
#28: October 05, 2010, 12:04:55 PM
I asked my H if he wanted a divorce at bomb drop. He said (at the time) that he didn't then, but he may want to way into the future. We have never discussed it since.
I think with a lot of MLCers the possiblity of D is there right at the beginning because they are so sure they have made the right decison to walk away from the M. In their minds it would be a natural progression as they are so certain then that the marriage is over, and they have no intention of returning.
As time goes on and they start to cycle back and forth, I think they then start to get nervous and panicky that their LBS may have believed them and would not want them back. I know with my H he has told me he gets scared and he doesn't want me to give up on him, even though for now he can't give up OW. 
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Re: Question/ observation
#29: October 05, 2010, 12:20:21 PM
I don't know, Glimmer. Like everything else, I think each situation is different.

My H never mentioned divorce until speech #3....which was a year and a half after the initial speech and nearly two years after he started drastically changing.

My H doesn't cycle back and forth either.

So, I think it is a roll of the dice either way.
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Re: Question/ observation
#30: October 05, 2010, 12:22:41 PM
My H filed in Jan 10. But we ARE STILL MARRIED and it,s Sept. Thank you Lord!!!
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