[hopeandfaith]

Wow it’s been a while since I was last here.  I saw 31’s message while I was on a plane to Bali with D20 and promised myself I would update when I got back.  My last update was in August which I think was one of the suckiest months of the year.  D17 was at her lowest.  Regular psych appointments, anti-depressants and a forced change to her sleeping habits has turned that around and she has now applied for a beauty course next year and is excited.  It will be a very good fit for her because she loves all that stuff.  She had previously discounted that as a choice because she thought we would tell her that she was too smart for it.

S16 is finishing up his year of school and has quit one of his jobs and broken up with his long term girlfriend.  We have had a few conversations with him about “pulling his head in” because he has been letting his hair down a fair bit and sliding into drinking etc.  Overall, he has big dreams and is a very happy little camper.

D20 is still as happy as ever.  She’s had a great year.  It was her birthday in Nov and I made her a photo book that captured the previous years’ activities because there really was so much to put in it.  We were sitting on the couch one night in Oct and she realised she had a week of annual leave at the end of her new roster.  She asked me if I wanted to go to Bali with her so that’s what we did just after her birthday.  It was amazing.  I will definitely travel with her again because she’s just so chill.

H was a bit wobbly in August following his breakup with ow.  He took one of his female work colleagues on a Harley ride one day while I was on a quick interstate trip with my friends and then was rostered to work for 3 straight days (including an overnight) with the girl he also dated last year while on a break from ow.  He was flying out as I was flying back home so I met him in the lounge and spelled out the fact that my current field of vision included: Harley friend, last years ‘bit’ and ow (returning that week from her UK trip) and that it all seemed a bit hard.  He explained that Harley friend was “like a sister” and that last years bit would likely call in sick for their rostered flying anyway – uhuh, whatever you think babe!  She didn’t.  What a shocker.  I later asked him if he had invited one of his sisters on that Harley ride or even invited a male friend.  No to both.  I have since talked to him and shared my concern that I feel he is naïve about the mixed messages he sends his ‘sisters’ and ‘friends’. 

Over the course of the next week he told me that ow had come back and that he’d considered flying to her town to see her but “couldn’t do that to you” and that he was due to be in her town the following week but wouldn’t see her.  To his credit, he was super transparent when he was flying with ‘last years bit’ and also while in ow’s town.  She knew he was going to be there though so I suspect she did see him, possibly for the last time?

Just before all this, he had launched us both into an ensuite renovation in my bedroom which probably helped him stay on the straight and narrow–ish during that wobbly time because he didn’t want to leave me with a gutted bathroom.  That also gave him an excuse to spend all his spare time at our place.

September featured a couple of family birthdays that I wasn’t really invited to but H took me along anyway.  I got the whole “oh sooo happy to see you” treatment.  I then invited myself to FIL’s surprise birthday (organised by SIL) in Oct because if it hadn’t been a surprise, I know he would have invited me.  H and I went together but separately and I actually got a little lost on the way.  That resulted in a bit of a tantrum from me in which I was almost cross at H for not waiting for me when we got separated in traffic because “I haven’t been here in 3 years, you know”  I said that enough times for H to just grab me and hold me….and then I broke down.  As it turned out, he had pulled over to wait for me but I didn’t see him and I ended up in front.  As he was on his motorbike, he couldn’t really call me but also DID NOT think I would get lost anyway.  Lets face it, I wasn’t lost because I had a maps app but ya know, I just got a bit stressed.

D20 decided she wanted to do a wine tour for her birthday so H hired a bus and drove her and her friends around for the day.  This is normally something he would have been drinking at but obviously he couldn’t.  It was such a lovely day.  He is still drinking a lot but his demeanour when drunk is more funny and less @$$hole (quoting S16 here)

Just before we headed to Bali, H and D20 flew together for the first time and H organised for me and D17 to go along with them on an overnight in another town.  Gee that was fantastic.  I was so proud.  I had asked H if he wanted us to book a separate room for this trip or bunk in with them.  This would have meant I was sharing with H and D20 and D17 would have been together.  H hesitated about what the kids would think so I told him to get back to me and then just booked the room anyway. 

The next night he phoned me a bit drunk and apologised for not being more open to sharing rooms.  I told him it was no sweat and that I wasn’t in a rush to make that statement to the kids.  That ended up being a R talk where he confirmed that he is not talking to anyone, let alone ow, at the moment but is still heavily processing things.  I encouraged him to take his time and that I was focusing on the moments and really enjoying our time together.  He ended up convincing me to sneak out of the house and go to his house to cuddle up with him.  I left a note on my pillow in case one of the kids came into my room (highly unlikely) and went to H’s house.  I was back by 6.15am the next morning – which was our overnight with H and D.  No one knew I’d gone

There have been a number of sleepovers since and we are both cherishing going to sleep next to each other and waking up with each other.  There is no talk of him moving back home yet despite the fact that he never sleeps at his place and that is pretty expensive.  I think it suits us both right now.  I think we need to get through Christmas and New Year without those big statements and just continue to inch forward in our healing, individually and as a couple.

We were both invited to his best friends annual party on Sat night.  Huge bash.  Last years bit (lyb) was going so I said I wouldn’t.  I left it to H to decide what he would do.  He stayed with me and we had another R talk.  He is reluctant to talk negatively about ow or lyb but said that he had been a “c word” to both of them and ow 1 (2013).  I asked him why he thought that was and he mostly thought that it was because they weren’t me.  I asked him how he managed to have respect for a woman who would take that treatment from him and he looked a little blank.  If I could have interpreted his look, it would have meant that he couldn't lose respect for someone he never had respect for in the first place.  He said he knew it would never last but that he had developed feelings for her and was still processing those. 

For the first time, he agreed that she was more like an addiction because he said that they had nothing in common.  She is a bossy, vegetarian, rain lover and H is the opposite.  I was really surprised when he said she was bossy.  As if that would ever work with H!!  He did tell me that she lives in a “firetrucking fantasy world” where up until 6 weeks ago, she planned to go to the UK for 12 months and then return to a newly divorced H so that they could marry and have kids.  She now thinks “she’s done” but I don’t think so and told H the same.  He said that it was an ugly breakup which was different to their first breakup towards the end of 2017.  He said that she had planned to move to our town by the end of that year but I remember him blocking that and also her applications for jobs here.  It took another 2 years of progessively worse breakups before it looks like they are done.  Most of this year they have been off way more than they were together. He said that while he was in their little bubble in her town, he went along with her plans but as soon as he got on the plane to come home, they went out the window.  That matched up with what I thought was happening as well. 

I asked him if he is now feeling bored because he no longer has so much emotional management to do and he said he is just starting to feel relaxed.  He is still worried about doing it again though.  I suggested that he might not know until he is tested again.  I have observed him making solid decisions for a while now (like missing the party on Sat night) so I am hopeful that the passing of time will help build his confidence.

On Sat we went to buy S a new motorbike and we were being heavily sold to in the shop.  H was about to sign on the dotted line but I went quiet because I had wanted us to shop around.  I was actually expecting that we were being given the best price based on some earlier research but I just wasn’t that comfortable with how quickly it was all moving.  H took one look at me and asked the salesman when the shop shut and then told him that we needed to do some more shopping.  Outside the shop, he made 2 phone calls to other bike shops and found that our price was the lowest so we went back inside to make the deal. 

I thanked him for doing that and was quietly shocked at how well he’d read me.  He told me that it had been one of best moments of his day – recognising that he needed to make his wife happy and then doing it.  When then went across the road to the Harley shop and he wandered over to the women’s section.  I quickly caught up….as you do.  He told me that he’d wanted to buy me a jacket for Christmas and the one he was holding was STUNNING.  I tried it on.  Oh my god.  A jacket shouldn’t be that nice.  At $780 I guess it should be.  My financial planning self went on a brief holiday and we ended up getting it.  That was another highlight of H’s day.  Later that night (which was the night of that party we missed) he apologised for looking for “more” happiness because he said that life didn’t get any better than today.

He also told me that when he’d first met ow, it was about a year after they had been talking and then flirting by phone.  That kinda amazed me because she was his go to girl at work.  Anyway, he said that he was disappointed when he actually walked in the room.  She, on the other hand, shook while she spoke to him.  I said “that must have felt good”.  He admitted that it did but that he spent a good deal of time after that telling her that he was not her Prince Charming.  No doubt that made him more attractive whilst he probably continued to flirt and send very mixed messages.

Also, he said that the moment that ‘lyb’ took her clothes off for the first time, his first thought was ‘dissapointed’.  She is a very beautiful young blonde Russian girl but not as beautiful with her clothes off apparently.  H said that he’s realised that it’s all just the same thing.  It’s all just sex.  He admits to being caught in the thrill of the chase and stupidly surprised when it pays off.

Christmas this year will be spent together and H has agreed to dogsit for roomies over New Year.  He is to just spend the evening with me, maybe at the beach and keep a low profile.  Sounds like bliss to me.  Way better than last year when I was alone and bawling my eyes out while he was in ow's town bringing in the New Year with her.  Yep, that was a low.  We also have a family holiday planned on the 17 of Jan for a week.  Cannot wait for that one.  I originally booked that for the kids and I and invited H if he wanted to come.  He has become gradually more committed to that and is now helping with the planning.

Feeling super grateful for all the good things in my life right now. 

Last threadL https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10622.new#new

[UrsaMajor]

H is making some progress... Won't be long and you'll be sporting a Pink Icon at this rate...

[Milly]

Loved your update, Hope! Thank you so much for coming back to update us. We love all the details, too!

[Thunder]

Really nice update, Hope.

I wish you two more happiness as he reconnects with you.  So good to hear.   

Hugs

[hopeandfaith]

Thanks for reading Ursa, Milly and Thunder

I haven't done much monkey braining lately but I did some last night.  Its amazing how used to a semi routine you can get and when it's  slightly changed, it is a bit of a trigger.  H stayed over on Thurs night and left for work from our house yesterday morning.  I was wondering what his plans were after work and then he said he'd see me at the cricket on Sat afternoon.  I figured he'd come back to our house because he had quite a bit of free time on Sat morning before he was supposed to take D 20 to the cricket at 2pm.    I started wondering if he had breakfast plans with someone else.  I found myself checking our find my friends app to see what he was doing and was relieved to see him at his place (or at least his phone was).

Now I probably was a little too sensitive because D17 and I had planned to go to the movies at 9.30pm and he finished work at 9pm so it really wouldn't have been very interesting to come to ours.  He also hasn't been at his place for a while so when I spoke to him this morning he was in the middle of being a 'domestic god' and catching up with cleaning and washing.  D20 was also supposed to meet him at his place at 12.30pm (not 2pm) which is a lot closer to the cricket than our house and is a much cheaper taxi fare.  I will be taking over D20's ticket later on and spending the rest of the evening with H there unless we decide to go out somewhere in the city. 

I am taking over D20's ticket because she is going to the company Christmas party - the same company H works for.  Lyb is likely to be there so I have no interest in going and once again, H is making a solid choice by staying with me.  He was supposed to go to the cricket with his best friend and host of last weekends huge bash but he didn't pursue those initial tentative plans because D expressed interest in going for a little while and then I said I would take over her ticket when she left.  He seemed happier with that plan than going with his best friend. Best Friend also works for the company and would have definitely wanted to go to the company Christmas party when the cricket is finished.

I have noticed him making more contact with his family lately even though it means he is fielding a lot of questions about what is happening with us - which he doesn't like.  It doesn't stop him making plans with me or trying to hide me in any way.  We are both in a "like or lump it" space with everyone at the moment and the kids are happy with the amount of time he is around and the quality of human he is when he is around.  Seems they have excellent bull$h!te detectors.  D17 is getting a little worried about losing me to H I think which is partly why I think H wasn't here overnight and this morning.  We had a phone call from her psych yesterday which basically told us that.

Last weekend we went for a Harley ride with one of his friends who H thought I had met before.  I hadn't and he asked me at one stage during the day if I also worked for the company (big company).  I said no and then there was a distraction that changed the subject.  When I went to the toilet, H later told me that friend had asked H where he'd met me.  I laughed and asked what he'd said.  He said "she's my wife".  That would have been funny to see

[hopeandfaith]

In a bit of a love bubble today and feeling a little bit terrified.

I met H at the cricket yesterday afternoon as planned.  I got there in a terrible mood due to parking issues and H quickly absorbed it.  I then backtracked and apologised before we got on with our afternoon.  We stayed for about an hour and a half before we decided to go into the city for dinner.  We were nicely dressed so we dined in a pretty expensive restaurant in a hotel.  It was sooo nice.  After dinner we decided on a nightcap at another quiet hotel and managed to lose 2 hours talking and winding down memory lane.

H again apologised for what he has done to me and said I was an amazing woman for putting up with him.  He had a few beers by then so was reluctant to have an R talk because "we need to talk when I am completely sober" but it just evolved that way.  He said that he doesn't have an agenda of what we should talk about as such but it would be about how we move forward.  He said that very little had changed since the night he first moved out. He'd cheated then and he hasn't really resolved anything.  I explained how I had asked him to leave because I knew I would have had a 3rd person in our marriage and that I wouldn't get much sense out of him until the fantasy bubble popped. 

I now think that there was a time that the bubble was not yet formed and I may have been able to influence the end rather than push them together but I think H would have always had a question mark over himself and ow.  I was fortunate enough to get an ow who completely disregarded my existence and pushed hard for a relationship so I am confident that she wouldn't have let go until he effectively killed her off of his own volition.  I can see he has learned a lot from this time but he can't see it yet.  I think guilt is fogging his glasses.

He is convinced that he won't hear from her again and I shared that I was less confident and would like to know what his plan is if she does prior to him moving home.  Or, for us to at least have agreement about all sorts of boundaries with female friends etc.  I have put the responsibility of recognising those tell tale feelings of attraction to another female and dealing with them honestly within himself first and then protecting us appropriately afterwards in his hands.  I told him that I have no interest in monitoring this and he would need to do it himself because he wants to - not because he is doing it for me.  I asked him if he was ready to be brutally honest with himself and he said yes.

He asked me to pull my guard down.  He told me that he wants to see more of the little girl I have talked about on occasions.  I know that I have every justification for keeping that guard up but he is absolutely right and I love that he sees through my defences and is asking for more.  In the past, he has always put me on a pedestal and just taken his bat and ball to play with others rather than hinting that I might not be perfect.  To have him ask for more under these circumstances felt like a milestone to me.  He talked again about what others would think about us getting back together and then, as per usual, he follows with "not that I care what others think". It is a recurring theme for him so I was pleased when he said, "I wouldn't be going back, we'd be going forward". Bingo H.  Lightbulb moment for him and joyful moment for me.  Its really started to looking like he's strapped his boots on and is getting ready to work.

I sent him a text just a moment ago which was far more emotional that normal.  I wanted to take a risk because I am going to need to play it a little less safe here I think.  He just called me to say how much he appreciated it .

[Milly]

Oh, Hope, what a wonderful post! Thank you soo much for sharing! It's so wonderful that your H is making giant strides forward, that he even talks about the hard stuff, as much as is possible in one go. Loved your expensive hotel dinner. So happy for you.xxx

[Notinlimbo]

A couple of great posts Hope. I was getting a bit worried as we hadn’t heard from you and I checked your FB and saw your travel photos.  . Lots of exciting stuff happening in these posts. The comment about the little girl makes me think he is interested in a more emotionally intimate relationship.
Xxx look after yourself. Not

[31andcounting]

Hi hope! Haven’t been on in a long long time😜
I can’t really respond too much your H is there as is my H( mine returned ya da ya da ya da )
But now his mind is elsewhere again. No other woman but he trying to decide about retirement and what to spend his father’s  $$$ on. He constantly feels the need to be busy and bothered! Honestly I’m past that!   I want to leisurely tray and be with our young grandkids but he’s constantly “working” on his next big project. It’s not sitting well with me
Of course you sound amazing and strong 😉

31andcounting

[UrsaMajor]

Hope, it's well into the New Year!

What's new in your world?

[hopeandfaith]

Hi everyone, thanks for checking in on me UM.  I didn't see your post at all 31 so I am sorry I haven't responded.  Hopefully your H moves through this need to be busy with a project and emanates a bit more inner peace?

Things continue to move slowly forward with H.  He is still renting with another couple but spends very little time there because he prefers to be here when he is not away for work.  We haven't had an R chat in a little while now and we're probably due for one.  There were a few bumpy patches over Christmas and New Year.  I saw the name of a previous ow in his snapchat list. I have referred to her as last years bit (lyb) because she featured in gaps when ow was out of the picture.  I also saw the name of another woman who I know he had kissed back in 2013 (she was a source of tension to the first ow).  I challenged H to ask why he had this "ghosts of options past' list on his snapchat and he confessed to having sent lyb a snapchat a few weeks earlier because he saw something that reminded him of her.  I took that pretty badly and told him that I felt he was putting out feelers and therefore not invested in us.  Things settled and he cleaned out his snapchat list a week or so later.  He had also been overhead having a fairly serious conversation with another woman via FaceTime who my son thought was me.  He asked me what we had been talking about because he thought he heard me say "you need to get your $h!te together". It wasn't me and I asked H about it a few weeks later when an opportunity arose.  This was the woman from 2013.  I also had a funky feeling after he flew with a female crew from another base in Dec.  Turns out that she had also expressed feelings for him.  I wouldn't have known about this one at all had H not offered info about it.  He told me that he had shut down both advances from the other female crew member and the 2013 woman.  Before this conversation, I sensed H was still hiding things because he was reluctant to talk if I wanted to talk.  Since then, he has been an open book so hopefully this debris is being cleared away.  He was obviously still giving off vibes if not more.

Christmas was challenging because D18 was very mentally unwell due to a toxic relationship.  SIL was angry that we weren't harder on D18 and H told her that he didn't give a firetruck if it was Christmas Day or not, he was going to do what he needed to do for his D.  My parents are also struggling with feeling dumped since I am spending so much time with H.  Truth be told, nothing much has changed there because I don't see them very often anyway.  They seem to have thrown their toys out of the cot a bit because they have also cancelled the catch ups that I have tried to make.  I am going to meet with my mum this Friday to hear her out because she keeps sending emotional texts but rejecting the offer to catch up to talk.  I finally had to tell her that I was sick of the one way truth darts and that we need to talk.  I am a bit nervous about it.  Mostly because I have a lot of hurt sitting in my heart that I have never shared with them so I am just empty when it comes to hearing how much I am hurting them.

New Years was excellent and it was just the 2 of us at his place.  Great talks.  Very healing.  We then went on a week long beach holiday which was really awesome.  D18 really shone when it was just the 5 of us and H seemed to glow too.  Since then, he has been on a 6 week health challenge (no drinking) which he is 4 weeks into.  He is also settling into his non-managerial life and just loving how much easier it is.  Over Christmas and New Years, he was acting in the Chief Pilot's position and it was intense given all the fires raging in Australia.  Flights were constantly being diverted, cancelled, delayed etc. It was a massive undertaking from a safety, marketing, operations viewpoint so he had to be attached to his phone with constant phone hookups with multiple parties.  Still a lot easier than a lot of other folk were facing though.  My heart goes out to all who have been affected by these fires.

I am finding that I am starting to let my guard down a little more.  I haven't been triggered since the upsets I mentioned above in Dec although there is another party that is coming up in March that we have been invited to that lyb might be attending. I am parking that particular worry until closer to the time when I will probably ring the host and ask him if she is - so that I can then make my decision from there.  The host is H's best friend and he knows the history so he would understand if I decide not to go.  He's an angel.  Without the regular triggers it seems a little easier to let some of the hurt bubble to the surface to be dealt with because I am not in a heightened state of alert now.  I just hope and pray that the triggers stay few and far between and the healing can continue.

[UrsaMajor]

Slow and steady wins the race....

And it seems that H is on the slow and steady track out of the tunnel. I do like his response to SIL regarding D19 and I would venture to guess that D19 appreciated H having her back as well.....

And, since I am such a horrible person with a reserved seat on the bus to Hades, I'd be lying if there wasn't just a little part of me thinking that you should show up to that party DESPITE LYB being there just to rub her nose in the fact that she is water under the bridge that has been sent out to sea whereas you are the real deal... But I am a wee bit vindictive in that way.... 

Here's hoping that H continues on the straight and narrow!

UM

[hopeandfaith]

And, since I am such a horrible person with a reserved seat on the bus to Hades, I'd be lying if there wasn't just a little part of me thinking that you should show up to that party DESPITE LYB being there just to rub her nose in the fact that she is water under the bridge that has been sent out to sea whereas you are the real deal... But I am a wee bit vindictive in that way.... 

This is actually the reason why I would go to the party UM - I am the one giving this woman power right now.  My hesitation is around how annoyed I could get by being in the presence of a woman who should never have been a problem for me.  Do I need that personal aggravation?  I sense it is not completely water under the bridge for her and some of these chickies just stir $h!te up when their ego's are hit.  Guess I will see which side wins out when the time comes.

[Gettingbackup]

If UM has a reserved seat on the bus to Hades, then I am the bus-driver.

This must be why I agree with him.

Just to say, it's clear you understand the power dynamics and why you should go. I just wanted to offer that if you do decide to go (which will be so hard and very brave), then you must only go from a place of undeniable strength.  You have to rock up confident and gorgeous, brimming with 'meh'. As in, 'Oh look, it's LYB. Meh...' (insert hair toss).
 
If you feel you can't do this, then don't go. She will be watching you like a hawk and there must be no chink in your armour, not the slightest - it would be a gift to her she will nurse and treasure. Part of recovery is being kind to yourself and realising you may not be ready to march into battle yet. There'll be other opportunities.

[UrsaMajor]

Well, the laws of physics state that one can't vigorously stir the turd without getting some of it on one's own hands....

And what better way to rob them of that power than to take it back yourself... or, as I like to look at it, to hand them their rear end on a silver platter..

This would, of course, be dependant on whether or not H could be counted on to act as if lyb is the pond scum which she is...

[Notinlimbo]

Hi H&F

This would, of course, be dependant on whether or not H could be counted on to act as if lyb is the pond scum which she is...

Good point Ursa. Though how about just not be flattered by attention/ignore her.
All the R talks in the world don’t make up for actions.

It’s wonderful that he has quit the drinking for the time being.

I’ve been checking on you HF. Great that you felt the time was right to question his ”other bits” and he told you had shut them down on his own (?) if I’m reading it right.

Xxx Not

[hopeandfaith]

Dang it, I just lost a whole post  ...start again.

Cheerheart, I definitely agree that I would need to go to that party from a place of undeniable strength.  I have been in a situation where I needed this sort of confidence and presence twice before and I managed to pull it off so I know I can do it and I know the result is powerful.  I don't think I am there yet with this situation though so I have decided that I don't want to go.

Ursa, in fairness, I can't really call lyb pond scum. If she betrayed any female, it would have been ow because H and I had been separated for a while before her.  I am not sure how that all played out (whether she knew about or went behind ow's back) so I won't make a judgement.  She is a temptress though.  The last "dress as a dag" party that she went to saw her turn up dressed as a kitty cat in a skin tight black lycra outfit, heels and some cute little kitty cat ears  At a previous party, her and a friend helped ruin the friendship between the party host and his friend because they both flirted outrageously with him and he had trouble cooling off when they threw water over it.  The theme of this party is "70's throwback" so I can predict with almost 100% certainty, the type of outfit she will wear.  That has a high chance of making my H just look like a cliche for having fallen for this $h!te in the past.

I have a feeling that a large part of H wouldn't want to go either.  He won't want to let his friend down but he also won't want the gossipy eyes of other party goers (mostly work mates) watching the 3 of us.  H also knows that I can sense and feel vibes and/or history between people so it could just end up dragging us into the past and inflaming past hurt.  He gets his new roster this weekend and there is a small chance that he would be working that night.  In that case, this will become a non-issue.  If he does have it off, I am going to tell him that I am going to call his friend and ask if lyb will be there.  If she will, I will explain why I won't be coming and try to arrange an alternative time to celebrate with him.  He is a beautiful man who does know the history so I am sure he will understand completely.  I will also tell H that it would mean a lot to me if he chose to celebrate with his friend at an alternative time too.

H is in ow town for 3 nights this week.  She actually lives in London now but the other 2 'options' I spoke of in the previous post live there.  Time to stretch that trust muscle.  I have no reason to believe he would be catching up with either person.  Really had to quiet the monkey's yesterday.  Fortunately, H has been in contact a lot.  We spoke 5 times before 12pm today and he answers his phone immediately if I ever call him.  He has to continue to go there, so I need to get comfortable with it.  Each time he goes and it goes well, it probably lessens the trigger.  For him, it probably re-writes history about the meaning and associations of the place.  I feel it is something we need to push through as bravely as possible without little remarks from my end.

[Treasur]

No criticism, H&F, probably just my confusion or limited understanding of your wider story....but as I guess there is a good chance that others are maybe dealing with similar things.....

How do you see your relationship right now? Do you see your h as still your h and that you are reconnecting? Albeit with some 'past/present ow ghosts' in the mix? Or separated and trying to be friends so ow/lyb are no longer your business in a way? Or a kind of open marriage practically speaking?
And how does your h say he sees it? Or is aiming for? Or is doing differently bc I think a couple of months ago he said he hadn't resolved the issues that cause him to cheat even if he has said sorry for hurting you? What's different?
What does it look like the two of you are doing from the outside or from the POV of your kids say? I think he lives elsewhere but you spend some time together?

And how ok are you right now in yourself/life bc I'm conscious that you have been on some version of this rollercoaster off and on for a few years and that must be tough?

I can completely understand the lyb party thing emotionally....I suppose it just seems that your choices are contingent on what these kind of women do and that seems a bit cart before horse perhaps? Giving lyb/ow too much influence on your life even? Or do you feel in competition somehow bc otherwise idk why her 'kitty cat ears' and behaviour at parties matters to you? How do you detach if you are focusing on where an lyb/ow might be or do.? Is that not your h's mess to clear up if he wants to reconnect with you or respect your role as his w?

I get the impression that there is a bit of social life that is strongly connected with your h's work? And one of your daughters is in the same biz? I've lived/worked in similar environments so I get that makes for messy work/life boundaries sometimes and a particular style of socialising.. Are you in the same business? Are most of your friends? Or just his and/or shared ones?

Sorry if these are stupid questions lol.
I think I'm just a bit confused and wanting to understand where you're at in order to support you in a way that feels useful and appropriate for your goals if that makes sense.

[hopeandfaith]

How do you see your relationship right now? Do you see your h as still your h and that you are reconnecting? Albeit with some 'past/present ow ghosts' in the mix? Or separated and trying to be friends so ow/lyb are no longer your business in a way? Or a kind of open marriage practically speaking?

I do still see my H as my H and that we are reconnecting.  Publicly, we call each other H and W.

And how does your h say he sees it? Or is aiming for? Or is doing differently bc I think a couple of months ago he said he hadn't resolved the issues that cause him to cheat even if he has said sorry for hurting you? What's different?
What does it look like the two of you are doing from the outside or from the POV of your kids say? I think he lives elsewhere but you spend some time together?

He has said that he wants us back as a family unit with us together as a couple.  The kids would see us as carefully reconnecting too. We agree that we are dating and as such, we wouldn't be moving in together straight away.  We have also joked about being boyfriend and girlfriend.  On some level, we are starting again. I am not sure what everybody else thinks.  I think they have given up guessing actually.  We spend a lot of time together and are open about our togetherness around everyone - work mates included.

Nothing has practically changed and if he is aware of the issues that have caused him to cheat, other than what we have already discussed, then he hasn't shared them with me.  I actually think that the 2 'options' that presented themselves, and his subsequent management of that helped give him some confidence in himself.  We are both relaxing a little which is fertile ground for a deeper level of enquiry for both of us - individually and together.  On the whole, our relationship keeps moving forward.  There always seems to be some little thing that we weren't doing a while ago that we are doing now.  He is very transparent.  We are now friends again on Find my Friends and he has shared his roster with me so that it imports directly to both of our phones instantly.

And how ok are you right now in yourself/life bc I'm conscious that you have been on some version of this rollercoaster off and on for a few years and that must be tough?

I am only just really realising now how much I have been living on high alert, regularly triggered, highly guarded and half breathing.  It became normal for me.  I do believe that I would be in a version of the place I am in personally now regardless of whether H and I were reconnecting.  It seemed that there was an inner urgency to uncover myself and pull down my guards.  To feel my feelings and to experience the world through my body.  I am a very thinky person and live in my head more than I would like to.

I can completely understand the lyb party thing emotionally....I suppose it just seems that your choices are contingent on what these kind of women do and that seems a bit cart before horse perhaps? Giving lyb/ow too much influence on your life even? Or do you feel in competition somehow bc otherwise idk why her 'kitty cat ears' and behaviour at parties matters to you? How do you detach if you are focusing on where an lyb/ow might be or do.? Is that not your h's mess to clear up if he wants to reconnect with you or respect your role as his w?

I am not sure I understood this part properly but I'll do my best .  I suppose I detach more easily when I don't walk willingly into a high trigger situation.  It/she is a reminder of a very sad time in my life and I am fortunate that even though the industry and our town ( Evermore) is seemingly small, I am not likely to have cross paths with her very often.  I may well run into her by chance and I totally rate myself to handle that like a queen.  This is different.  I totally don't care if she thinks we are avoiding her and gets some sort of satisfaction out of that or likes to think that being 20 years her senior makes me boring, dowdy or whatever.  If that were her fantasy, have at it chicky!  Even D gets a 'vibe' from her at work so the water has not yet passed under that particular bridge.  I don't want to provide any more fodder for gossip and don't want to upset myself either.  It adds nothing positive that I can see to our relationship now or in the future.

I am not sure what mess you are referring to that H has to clean up?  Beside the freakin obvious that is.

Thanks for your questions and concern Treasur.  I know that I said I want to be less thinky but your questions are good and for the greater good.  I also don't want to swing too hard the other way and start burying my head in the sand 

[Treasur]

Thanks for your patience in answering them, my friend 

Ok, so you are dating to reconnect with the shared goal of getting back together as a couple. And things feel like they are moving forward and you are seeing him be more transparent.

I guess my point about the lyb thing - and if I get you it is less about her and more that she is a representative reminder/trigger? - I suppose the trigger exists bc of your h's previous actions. If he is aware of how you feel, and presumably cares now, why not give him the responsibility of calling the party friend and dealing with it in the way you both think will be best for you both? Do you feel able to discuss it with him? Bit like clearing up after your own spilt milk as opposed to walking past and expecting someone else to get a cloth out? Just a thought....but maybe important if your h is given to avoidance?

[hopeandfaith]

I did mean to respond earlier than this to basically say that what I think you suggested Treasur, is a good idea.  I was thinking that because I had a problem with lyb going to the party, it would be up to me to let the host know. 

I did end up talking to H about it because his new roster showed that he conveniently had the whole weekend off  . I told him that I wasn't yet in a place where I could go to a party she was at.  He asked me if I was ok with him going and I told him that if he did it would really hurt and it would send a clear message to me.  He asked what that message would be and I said "that I am the only one dealing with the consequences of this". I also said that I hoped for his support whenever I feel strongly about something, regardless of whether he is the cause or not.  He nodded.  I think he would hope for the same from me.  I kept the conversation pretty short and stayed well away from any derogatory comments about her or anything that suggested that I thought he wanted to be with her again.  I did say that there would undoubtedly be some "monkey braining" for me if he went and I didn't and that I didn't think that was fair.

One thing I noticed during this conversation was how difficult it was to not drive my point home.  Instead, I shared my thoughts and left it there for H to process.  In the past, because of my discomfort, I think I may have goaded him into agreement and then been frustrated when I get lip service.  I have learned that H needs time to process and space to shine - which he did.

A week later he told me that he had spoken to his best friend and told him that we would not be going to the party.  He explained why and suggested that we catch up at an alternative time to celebrate.  He said that his friend understood.  I have since spoken to D20 who also works with the best friend and apparently he is very disappointed that we won't be there - not angry, just sad.  I was pretty surprised that H dealt with it so quickly because the RSVP is not until the end of this week and the party is at the end of the month.  I think he chose that time to deal with it because it became good news for me after a couple of really tough days.....

My job involves helping injured workers return to work and one of my guys committed suicide.  I had spoken to him the day before and he had told me that he could understand why people have.  This was a red flag conversation for sure and we organised for him to go and see his GP that afternoon with a work colleague so that he could ask for a mental health care plan and get some targeted support.  He did that, and by all accounts it went very well.  He was prescribed anti-depressants and rang his offsider later to tell him that he was on the straight and narrow.  The next day, he tried to gas himself in his car first before being found by his wife.  Later in the day, he hung himself in his backyard.  Most of the people at work did not see it coming and now feel responsible for not noticing.  It's hard to say that to me, it wasn't a surprise.  We really tried to help but it wasn't enough.  I don't feel responsible - just so very sad that on that particular day, that was his best idea 

I didn't take it too well and D17 and D20 had to come to my work in one car to pick me and my car up.  I was scattered and shocked and at that stage, didn't know how he had passed - except that I did know.  Weirdly, I was just praying that it had been a car accident instead.  In the early hours of the next morning, I was woken by our security cameras alerting me to activity on our driveway.  I checked the cameras and saw that someone was in the yard.  I turned the lights on and went to the side door to ask who was there.  No one answered so I told them that they were being filmed and I had called the police.  I then heard the gate rattle as if someone was jumping over it.  I hadn't realised that there was more than 1 intruder and that they had been in the back yard as well.  We later worked out that they had been there for 15mins before I knew about it and had so far managed to cut through security chains and move S16's motorbike next to the roller door. 

I was truly a space cadet the next day.  I had lunch with 2 close friends and I had to deep breathe on my way down there just to stay focused on the roads.  After lunch I met H for a couple of hours before meeting up for a lovely dinner with Evermore.  It was then that H told me about the conversation with his best friend.  He did seem pleased with himself and I think it was something he felt he could do given that he felt so helpless about everything else that had transpired in the previous 24 hours (while he had been interstate).  I thanked him and told him that I really appreciated his support.

We have since spent the night with his best friend at his place and I apologised personally to best friend for missing the party.  He said he understood although he had added subtle pressure - possibly unintentional, while we were there.  Lyb will be there for the party despite her best friend side kick, that H has also taken for a ride on his Harley (earlier post,) going to a conflicting party.  She will actually be there all weekend which I find a bit odd. 

While we were at BF's house, he said that he thought we should just move back in together and save ourselves a lot of money.  Cue the awkward silence.  I am not sure if H has spoken to him about this and was feeling me out.  I don't think so though.  I am open to H moving back in because he spends most of his time here anyway.  He has recently stayed here twice when he's had an early start and his place is more than half way towards the airport.  I am happy to wait for H to initiate this because I think he will only do it when he feels ready.  We last spoke about this in early Jan and we were both happy with him holding onto his place for a bit longer then.  I think it might be providing a false sense of security though.  If we do part ways again, we would definitely be better off with the extra money that living at home now would give us.  Sometimes its not about the money though.  What I do know is that it works better for us when I let him take the lead.  We seem to be on the same page enough for neither one of us to get ahead of or left behind by the other.

In a possible forum first, Evermore and I realised that it would be quite possible for 2 forum members ow's to be at the same party - well not our ow's but you get the drift.  BF is known to Evermore's H and there's a small chance that her H and ow could be at the party that lyb will be at.  Not sure how I would handle it if I ever ran into her.  I think we all get quite protective of our brothers and sisters on the forum but would never want to do or say anything to their H's or W's (or associated AD's) that would make life uncomfortable for the LBS.  GRRRR though!!!  P.S Evermore, not sure if I have overstepped here so if you would prefer I edit this post to remove this part, let me know x.

It won't surprise anyone to know that Evermore is a really cool chick - smart, interesting and funny.  I just don't know what these MLCers are thinking 

[Treasur]

Well done, h&f, on changing your behaviour, communicating your boundary and letting your h deal with some of the mess he has created. Must feel good that both of you stepped up on that.

I am so sorry about the double whammy of the intruders and the guy who took his own life. Entirely understandable that you were thrown a bit for a little while, but it sounds as if you dealt with it really well.

Not at all surprised that Ever is a jewel....most LBS seem to be, even if we forget for a little while 

[Milly]

Hope, I'm really sorry about the man you were helping who committed suicide. Even though it's part of your job and you know it can happen, of course it's going to affect you, you are a kind, empathic person.

I'm also sorry about the burglary attempt. It's another violation, another incident to keep you on your toes. I had a burglary last year around this time, they came in while we were sleeping, and I tell you it just felt like I was getting attacked on all sides. Plus, the feeling of vulnerability for us women on our own.

I am following with interest this reconnection with your H. I'm very glad he cancelled the invitation to the party. It's the least he could do, and I'm glad he realized himself. Moving in together would save money, and how can we not think of these things, too. I like your way of letting him lead.

Interesting idea that a couple of OW could be at any party. Scary.

[Evermore]

Ah Hope, you are so very kind. I am delighted to say 'right back atcha' because it was very lovely to meet you and find that you are indeed just as kind and thoughtful (etc!) as you come across on the forum. We definitely need to do it again soon (and we will get Notinlimbo to join us). Fine to mention the possible party meet up. I hope you're feeling more settled now after your sad/scary week last week. So glad your H is doing 'all the right things'. Talk soon. xxx

[Little Wing]

Hope

I have been in your position - several times young people I have supported professionally have taken their own life despite my best efforts.

It is very difficult to accept that despite doing everything right, some people are beyond the help of other humans.

Last young person I lost just before Christmas was 18 when he decided that he could take no more of life.  My own friend ended his life at 48 years old on Christmas Eve 2019.  If you have not been in this position it is difficult to understand the guilt you feel, even when logically it is not your fault. 

It is terribly sad and demanding to be in these sorts of roles, but just remember Hope that you are there for a reason and try to remember the successes not just the sadness.

good luck with your journey

LW

[hopeandfaith]

Thank you Little Wing.  I wish you strength in dealing with the sadness too - especially now with the extra challenging times.

Ever, Milly and Treasur - thank you for following along and sharing your support.

Some news - H is moving home this week, just shy of 3 years since he left.  COVID19 was certainly the trigger but it is something that we were both ready for.  I now think that H would have taken quite a bit longer before asking to come home.  I get the impression that he was waiting for me to invite him.  I initiated the conversation about "living arrangements" saying that I wanted to know how he felt about it.  He said he wanted to come home but the bigger question in his mind was how I felt about it.  I told him that I think we are recovering well but we are very much still in recovery.

Funnily enough, moving home to support the family and basically save ourselves about $9000 a year made it easier for him to not feel so guilty about coming home.  He is still struggling with the idea that he gets to do this.  Both our parents have now been told and they were both supportive.  H's roomies are also supportive so some of his fears were unfounded.  He did say again that he wondered what would have happened if he hadn't left that night 3 years ago.  This always makes me scratch my head. What did he think would happen?  Just goes to show how uncommitted he was to ow at the time and that there was perhaps a window in which it could have been turned around.  I believe in my soul that it would have been a temporary turn around because I think he would have remained unstable until he saw this through. 

I said that I thought ow would never have left him alone and that would have crucified any chance we had because it would have been soul destroying to me.  I did say that if a similar thing happened again where I saw early evidence of a woman flirting with him, my reaction would be swift, forceful, direct and possibly public.  There was a veiled warning in that to H.  You better make sure that you are clean if this happens again or you will be dragged down too.  I will not protect him in the future.  I am sick of feeling like I have just stepped aside for another woman to move in on my family and also believe that other woman will follow a code.  I have taken a long time to learn this is not the case so my 'polite' is broken and my 'protective' is reinforced.

This is definitely a bright part of this whole crazy mess.  I am nervous because he is going to be around so damn much.  His airline might be shutting down on April 6 so that puts H and D20's income in jeopardy.  My income is 1/5 of H's so this will be a big problem.  Fingers are definitely crossed and changes being made to try and lessen our monthly expenses. H is drinking quite a bit at the moment and that is gonna drive me crazy even if his income isn't lost.  If it is, he just won't be able to drink because we won't have the money.  My ALANON group experience is going to be really important now.  It shows me that I still have a lot of detaching to do even though we are reconnecting.

Wishing everyone peace, patience, love and good health x

[Milly]

Hope, a lot of tough challenges for you to navigate as your H moves home. I like your veiled warning.
Sending you strength.

[Evermore]

This is lovely news in these crazy times. As we can't meet again in person for a while I will be following your story from here and cheering you on.

Thanks again for your support (means a lot). Hope I can repay the favour by sending good thoughts your way!

[hopeandfaith]

3 year BD anniversary today.  Just taking a moment to remember the horror and give thanks for the different position I find myself in today.  Today, H’s almond crunching annoyed me.  So yeah, I need to remember to be grateful.

I am grateful that he is here so that I can get annoyed by him just like all the other normal people getting the $h!tes with their families during COVID.  For so long, all I wanted was the normal irritations.  There are so many songs with lyrics about this.

COVID has not made this transition home more difficult though.   We are far more blessed than some and we are trying to focus on the gift of the time together.  Fortunately, we all get along.  My heart bleeds for so many families for whom being forced together would be toxic.  Those with health issues already, so many scenarios and situations made harder by this.  It is one helluva life adjustment for many!!

H seems to err more on the side of being comforted by the safety of his family more than frustrated by the confines of the situation.  I don’t feel the slightest urge to escape coming from him which is pretty remarkable I guess.  I have also been annoyed by how many telemarketer phone calls he seems to get.  For such a long time, he had his phone on silent citing this as the reason.  He wasn’t wrong, it’s really annoying. 

I have really enjoyed the 2 times that he has gone to work from here and returned here afterwards.  That’s what makes it really feel like he is home.  That, and having to move out of so much wardrobe space to make room for him.

He seems to be doing fairly well given the worry I know he is feeling about his job.  The airline industry has taken a huge hit and while I think his company will come through it, his wage is being heavily affected.  We may actually have to be supported by our daughter and the wage support she is getting from the government.  That is not a good position to be in and it makes us feel terrible as this is money that would otherwise be going into her account as she tries to save for a house.  This really hits H hard.

H and D20 are getting particularly close though and that’s really cute to witness.  They were always pretty similar in their taste and habits and now they work for the same company, they have plenty to talk about.  She is a mini-him and she’s also a bad ass so its really nice to see them being buds.

I am still working and now working from home which is nice.  My office is set up in the bedroom so I start most days with H still in bed, having his coffee and reading the news etc.  I will miss that when we go back to work.    D18 has started seeing the idiot who caused her major depression last year after he promised radical change.  That lasted about a month but the grip is tight so she is not able to let go and is slipping badly again.  I just want my girl back.

I am struggling a little bit to find me time at the moment.  I built friendships while H was gone and I am maintaining them virtually at the moment.  That takes time.  The other day, I was on the phone all morning on a day that I had previously declared as a family day and H was low key irritated.  I emerged in my active wear which also irritated him because we have started dressing up for Sunday spit roasts (a new COVID tradition).  Little did he know that because my active wear is so expensive, I considered it a bit dressed up.  I then proceeded to turn down the music a bit and this also irritated him.  He mentioned something about that being typical of me and I bit back because that is something that hurt me for years.  Just because I don’t drink much, it doesn’t mean I don’t know how to have fun.  I walked away from him and he chased after me and apologised.  I don’t think he’ll do that again.

D20 gave a little bit of feedback the other day to basically tell me to try and relax a bit.  She said that she could understand why I would be guarded but she thinks her dad is doing quite well under the circumstances and she thinks he might be walking on eggshells around me a bit.  I will definitely take that on board and I can see what she means.  I will focus on really trying to trust myself and leave him be unless it REALLY affects me.  This is where I see that some of my old controlling habits try to sneak back in.

Not getting on the forum as much these days to I hope everyone is hanging in there.  Stay safe peeps x

[Thunder]

Hope, no apologies needed.

You are reconciling with your hubby and family, we understand your time is taken up.
We'd think something was wrong if you were still here everyday.

Just enjoy and stop in once in awhile.

God bless!

[Milly]

Hope, everything Thunder already said. I am so happy you and your H are doing well. So lovely to hear that your H seems to be appreciating what he has now again. I just want you and your H to keep getting closer to each other.

[31andcounting]

H&F
I haven’t been on in ........ I can’t tell you and so many names I don’t know but my old friend H&F showed up 😉
I’m going to begin reading backwards but man I hope I’m reading good❤️
31 and counting

[islandgirl68]

Just caught up H&F. I've been unable to post much and have only been on here and there to attempt to catch up with everyone.

I'm tremendously excited to see positive actions and affirmations from your H. It seems that he is more willing to speak what's on his mind and try to include you in his thought processes.

I hope you and your family are staying safe.

XOXO
Island

[31andcounting]

H&F
I’ve only gone back a few post but for some reason I remembered us on the same timeline but we we’re not !
7 + full years for my H to completely return with an early return years before 😜
You’ve got this!
(hugs)
31

[hopeandfaith]

Hi all,

SHE's BAAAACCCCKKK    ...that's ow (if it's not obvious)

She moved to the UK last Sept (break up 475) and told H that she would be back in 12 months and if he was divorced, they could continue.  The COVID situation has seen her return early and she emailed H about 5 weeks ago to let him know and also announce that their chapter was closed because she'd heard he was back at home.

He emailed back to confirm that he was and that he was glad she was safe.

She emailed him again on Sat night and asked how he was.  He emailed back to say he was fine.....this is where I come in.

We were visiting and staying with his parents and H was taking a shower before bed.  I heard him walk to the kitchen and then back to the bathroom. A couple of mins later he walked back the kitchen, spoke to his mum and then came to bed.  I asked him what he was doing....blank look.  I told him that I'd heard him go to the kitchen a couple of times.  He told me that he's spoken to his mum.  Long story short, he'd gone to get his phone.  I knew it and he knew I knew it but didn't want to tell me.  I wouldn't let it go and ask him what I am missing, what don't I know, is he struggling?  is something going on? does he want something to be going on?

By this time, I am literally shaking - not crying, just shaking.  He's never seen this before and doesn't know what to do so he tentatively reaches out to me.  I scoot over and let him basically hold me down.  He tells me there is nothing going on, he is not texting anyone, we do need to talk but not at his parents house, he loves me, is in love with me and wants a future with me.  I push him on the fact that he won't talk now - is he trying to manage what he expects will be a negative reaction.  He tells me that he does have something to tell me but it's not bad.  I get virtually no sleep and managed to do the 'business as usual' act the next day (lets face it, we're experts)  H was particularly close.  He's never seen such a visceral reaction from me, I think it scared him.

Sunday, we went home and didn't have an opportunity to talk.  Monday, we did and I suggested we go for a coffee.  I half expected H to resist but he seemed keen and he started talking before we'd got a minute from the house.  He told me that he'd last spoken to her last Sept and last had email contact in Oct.  So nothing had changed from what he told me in Oct.  He then told me that she'd contacted 5 weeks ago (as above) and again on Sat night.  He is pretty sure she is not interested in a relationship anymore.

Major red flags here that I am positive he didn't see until I pointed them out
1) Why did she contact at all when she'd heard we were back together (and why the firetruck did you respond?)
2) Why did she send the "How you doing" email after he'd confirmed it  (as above - while drunk on a Sat night - can anyone say "door open")
3)  She does want a relationship with you based on these actions - she would be seeing you everywhere now that she is back and once again, she is ignoring my existence.  AGAIN!!

He said he was rattled by her contact and admits that he still thinks about her occasionally but knows he can't have both and he doesn't want a divorce.  I asked why and he said "because I am in love with you and I want our life"  I wanted to make sure it wasn't just because it was too hard.  He promised he will never cheat on me again.  Obviously holds very little weight with me, but I'd prefer to hear that than not hear it.  He has been super loving since and seems relieved.  He said that we'd needed to have this conversation so I asked if he had planned to tell me.  He said that he thought I would ask about whether she had contacted or not.

I told him that I had only recently decided that I would want to know (as opposed to leaving it to him to handle) so I asked him if he will let me know when she contacts again.  He doesn't think she will but agreed.  I let him know that his naivety (spelling?) scares me.  We agreed that if/when she contacts again, he will not respond.  We discussed a joint response and I asked him if I could email her and he said he didn't want to flare drama.  I will go with his wishes for now.

H goes to the town she lives in for 1 night this week and then the town her family lives in for 2 nights.  I am lying in bed last night and it dawns on me that she is probably now living with her family AND, wait for it...... her sister works at the airport at this small regional centre so there is NO opportunity to sneak in and out of this town.  Lovely, just fabulous.  Then....his phone lights up at 12.54am.  I literally get the $h!tes and when I came back from the toilet H stirred and asked me what was up.  I told him about his phone and he reached over and opened his emails in front of me.  It was a roster notification.

This morning I thanked him for his transparency and told him that it had only just occurred to me that she would be living with her family and that she would know he was there.  He isn't sure where she it but thinks its a possibility.  He assured me that it doesn't matter anyway.

So yay, he goes away for the first time in about 8 weeks and its a total $h!te fight.  GRRRRR

[Evermore]

Oh Hope, I understand the 'interesting weekend' reference now. I can feel the turmoil rolling off the page but also can see from your words just how strong you are now and how different HE is. Here for a vent if you need one.

[hopeandfaith]

Thanks Ever - you know I will call you for a vent when I need one?  Maybe this week?

It is probably a good thing that H has gone away for the week because it is giving me a chance to pick myself up and put my game face on.  Let me hereby announce..

"Game on mole"

Lets not forget that I am so much better at this crap than she is.  I plan to frame this as an opportunity and stay positive.
1) I have the opportunity to not be needy this week when one would expect that I would be.  Be an attractive force that is not constantly asking questions and is instead offering trust and love
2) I can be grateful that H has once again been asked to choose - and say out loud why he is home (good for the soul)
3)  I can show him support during this difficult time - this includes cuddles and affection and a recognition that he might be struggling (even though he firetrucking caused it  )
4) I will not become a screaming banshee and give her everything she wants - creating a rift between us and opening a door to her.
5) It actually gives H the opportunity to step up and protect me this time - unlike last time.

I plan to let this play out and after she has contacted H again, I think I will give him some suggestions for an email back to her.  When I mentioned a joint response, I knew what that might look like in my head but he probably has no idea how that could work and still make him look like a man.  I might suggest that he emails her with something like
"This will be my last email to you because it is would be inappropriate for us to remain in contact.  You should also know that I have chosen to be an open book with H&F about our contact so far.  I wish you every happiness in the future"

Thoughts? 

I actually think he needs a bit of help but it needs to not look like he is getting it (or needs it).  He is still obviously very wobbly and it would be detrimental to point that out.  If I can provide a bit of guidance and support, it might make this a team event.  My aim is to bring us closer and into the light and discourage the sneaky dark breeding ground that has been lurking lately.

Lemme just say that I am totally pissed that I have to put my game face on again.

[UrsaMajor]

I agree that he needs to write that e-mail if the OW pops her head out again and the content you suggested is perfectly neutral but to the point.  The question is whether or not he'll have the doodads to write and send it.

If he does, it WILL "flare the drama" regardless and he is going to need to suck it up and deal with it, preferably by blocking her from contacting him.  There are ways... like sending mail from a certain sender direct to the trash folder & so on but this is something HE needs to WANT to do, to close the freaking door forever, lock it and toss the key in the key in the river.

You can "help" him but, like an alcoholic, it only works if he is really committed to the action.... The words are there and that is a start. Let's see if he follows up the words with concrete actions....

I REALLY hope that he will!

[Milly]

Hope, what a nightmare. Your shaking was such a sign of fear. I'm glad your H saw it. He needs to know what his affair did to you. I think you have behaved brilliantly. You nipped it in the bud, didn't let him get away with anything, demanded he confess, and pretty much set up one heck of a boundary.

Regarding what he should write the next time (which she will do) when she contacts. I like your response, although I would have left out the wishing her much happiness in the future. The time for that expression was the first time he told her he was staying with you. Now, she could take it as gentleness. She could still come on. I would make his reply as non emotional, non kind as possible. In fact, I would go with something even stronger, like I don't want to hear from you again.....and then the rest of your message.

I think it's definitely positive that your H wants to be transparent and that he confesses his love for you and desire for life with you. I also think it's positive that you ask him if he still thinks of her, and he answers honestly. Must be awful to hear it, so well done you. He really can't do much more than this at this point.

[Thunder]

I have to agree with Milly. no best wishes in the future.  She will see an opening.
He doesn't need to wish her anything.

I found men speak/write much more directly than women do.

If she contacts him again (which she may not) how about letting him write it first and see how he does?  He may feel better if the words come from him.  Besides she knows how he talks, you don't want it to sound like something you wrote.

Just a suggestion.   

Oh and then block her!

[terra]

Also agreeing with Milly: no wishing, no happiness, no gentleness from your h to ow.

My h has said things like “I don’t think I should be a d!ck about it?” <— complete with question mark.

My answer used to be that no, you don’t “should” be a d!ck about it. But you don’t “should” be *nice* about it, *either*. I seem to be in the midst of some kind of perceptual sea change, though, so I don’t know what my response would be now.

You sound so well and so strong, even if you still tremble or shake. It means a lot to me that you included that physical detail, because I have that too and don’t think I’ve seen it commonly written about. And the visceral involuntary stress response is both the vulnerability and persevering strength that our spouses really do need to see.

I’m so glad for your account and gosh, am sending prayers for blessings and clearings for these next weeks.

[LBS_Les]

Sorry to hear about OW contact.  Seems like a 5h!tty price to pay as the LBS, wondering when they will try and pop in (and they will)

I think your H has to send her the note, and because he caused this mess, it would only seem fair that he write the message to her, with the sole intent of shutting the door on their relationship/communication/friendship etc

I'm not sure what stage your H is in, so are we allowing him to protect OM because he's still not fully back?  Are you able to share how it makes you feel that he would consider her needs above yours that won't cause him to retreat?

[hopeandfaith]

I agree that he needs to write that e-mail if the OW pops her head out again and the content you suggested is perfectly neutral but to the point.  The question is whether or not he'll have the doodads to write and send it.

If he does, it WILL "flare the drama" regardless and he is going to need to suck it up and deal with it, preferably by blocking her from contacting him.  There are ways... like sending mail from a certain sender direct to the trash folder & so on but this is something HE needs to WANT to do, to close the freaking door forever, lock it and toss the key in the key in the river.

I totally agree Ursa.  I know he has the doodads to do this because he's done it before.  He had a lil stalker friend in 2014 and he handled that well.  She was reaching him everywhere and he eventually reported her to HR (they worked together) and he called me every single time she called him.  The question about whether he wants to throw away the key to this liaison will be answered soon I feel.  Thanks for the info on blocking emails.  I won't lie, I am fantasising about doing this behind his back because his trusting little soul has all the same passwords as me.  I won't get in the way of this process though.  I know better than to do that 

A few of you mentioned that you thought the wishes for a good future were too much and it got me thinking that they were only there because I thought he would need them there.  He is a people pleaser from way back.  It is also true that he has been truly vile to her in the past so while the tone of their recent exchange has been described as "polite" it might not make him really uncomfortable to be mean.  Maybe I am the only that gets uncomfortable with it.  What we do know is that no matter what he says, she doesn't go away. He has also blocked her in the past and that didn't last long but he also didn't want it to.  This will be ended somehow - if he wants it.

Thunder it would be interesting to see what he would write on his own.  I think he would be reluctant to show me but not because of any need for secrecy or protection of her, but more so embarrassment and shame of this 'other life' (which was probably way less pathetic when it wasn't being overseen by THE WIFE).

Thankyou for your prayers and blessings Terra, they mean alot

Are you able to share how it makes you feel that he would consider her needs above yours that won't cause him to retreat?

I don't feel like he is considering her needs over mine.  I think the bigger part of him wants this all to go away and a tiny part still wants the attention from her.  The bigger part feels like it is in charge but I sense a sadness in him because he knows he has to kill this off properly now.  I don't think she will go away (and therefore keep this tiny seed/question mark alive) I think she will probably ramp up and force his hand and I will remind him how very good he is at being firm when he needs to.

He is now in the town where I suspect she lives.  He called me after he checked into his room this morning and he didn't tell me that he hadn't seen her sister, which probably means that he did.  I didn't ask and I don't plan to.  I am trusting him to prove that "it doesn't matter anyway".  He didn't sleep well last night - I am not surprised.  He seemed better than I thought this morning though.  I kind of expected him to seem distant but he wasn't.  He was good yesterday too - not strong but trying.

[31andcounting]

Honestly H&F....
Did it have to play out exactly the same as mine??
My H returned and of course reconnected to OW.
It wasn’t until he totally got it that I and our kids were going to be done and we would be okay without him.
If OW was who he wanted than okay.
I was not okay with OW in our life,
Sending you  strength and love my friend!
Up to him!
(((Hugs)))
31

[hopeandfaith]

It is comforting to see the similarities 31.  Thanks for sharing.  This sure is tough.

I found out that H met ow last week for a coffee.  First time he has seen her since Sept.  I found out cos I snooped and I know it was a coffee and a kiss because I read an email from her that ironically talks a whole lot about building an honourable future based on what he does next    These chicks are honestly firetrucking delusional but I bet she likes the sound of her own voice.  A whole lotta stuff about being sorry that she might mess things up and that she understands if he turns his back on her for the sake of his family because she only wants happiness and peace for him.

She might be a better option because he sure as hell didn't get happiness and peace from me yesterday afternoon AFTER I sent her an email chewing her out.  The first he knew that I knew about the meeting was when I showed him this email.  I will post it here for full disclosure but discourage anyone saying anything negative about it because its done.  Who'd a thunk it would be me startin the drama?

“I need you to be honest with me and with H&F as from the moment we kissed on Thursday afternoon we were doing the wrong thing.”  You think???  How about when you emailed him after you’d heard we were together again? You have mastered the art of ignoring my existence and disrespecting my family and you think that NOW you can do the honourable thing?  There is no part of me that thinks you would understand if H decides to stay with the family. If you truly wanted peace and happiness, you would have stayed away.  You would be aware by now that any life you have with H would not include his kids as they have most definitely made their mind up about that.  How can you actually think that a life as fractured as that would make him happy?  This is about building your fairytale and it has always omitted a number of very important facts – such as me.  Your life experience over the past 3 years should have demonstrated that H has not just stayed with the family out of duty. 

At the end of the day, it was his choice and it has always been his choice and yet here we are.  We all know you wouldn’t have gone to London if he’d told you to stay.  I am frustrated and saddened that a fellow female would be so broken as to try and ignite something that was so toxic and dysfunctional.  I really hope you stop wasting your time and find a Prince Charming that wants kids.  My tolerance has run out and I am feeling very protective of my family.  I do exist.  I do have feelings and you have trampled all over them over the last 3-4 years.  Shame on you.  H and I have had a lot to work through and obviously still do.  For the moment, the ball is in his court.


I used a couple of fairytale/prince charming references in there to unseat her a bit because I know that H has used them with her too.  I then gave H 24 hours to decide what he's going to do and that expires in about 2 hours.  I really pushed him hard yesterday and he got a bit defensive but fought the urge to bolt.  I reminded him where his suitcase and the front door were nonetheless.

In true H&F and H style, we were nice to each other for the rest of the evening, which I could tell he was super grateful for.  He slept on the couch and I heard him launch his phone at a wall at one point which he tells me was related to a work email.  I did hear D20 asking him what the hell the noise was at the time and that's what they discussed.  He was also drunk by then - way to cope H!!

He has been out most of the day running an errand for his dad and I am pretty sure we are both relieved to have the space.  Evermore came to the rescue with a solid shoulder and some sage advice so the 'so what are you going to do' chat will be a lot less aggressive.  I think I know what he's going to do even if it's just because he hasn't got the balls to actually leave and upset everyone again.

My gut feel is that it was the right thing to intervene, turn the lights up bright and point out the door.  H said he wouldn't be surprised if she emailed be back and I said that part of me would rate that.  She hasn't.  She may have emailed him but as of mid evening last night, he offered that she hadn't.  I know I definitely ruined her day though  .  Her birthday is on Friday and it's either gonna suck or be a birthday miracle.  Funnily enough, H said yesterday that he knows the problem is him and its not just a me or her thing.  One of his options is to leave and be on his own (I was in b!tc# mode then so you can guess what I said to that!).

The kids don't know anything yet.  They will obviously find out if he decides to leave.  They are suspicious though which is not surprising.

H is like a cat on a hot tin roof.  I have decided that I want this still so I need to stay firm but also create a safe space for the dude who shat all over mine.  Other than that, I just have to take this one day at a time.  Not regretting becoming a visible character in this fairytale nightmare yet though.

[Milly]

Hope, I think you acted perfectly. We know these opportunities with the OW can arise and how difficult it is for our MLCers to let go of the dream/illusion. I think it was the right time to insert yourself. And your tone came off as determined, but not b!tc#y or crazy as far as I'm concerned.

I hope your H does do the right thing for all your sakes.x

[UrsaMajor]

Hope,

OW is just lucky you didn't decide to go all



on her nightmare.....

[hopeandfaith]

Not ruling it out Ursa!!

Thanks for your support Milly, it really helps to hear that it sounded determined but not crazy.

As yet, ow has not replied to me.  I am not sure if H has had any contact with her.  We have not really been able to talk because of the kids being around all the time.  This morning he told me that he didn't want to leave and I told him that I didn't want him to.  I apologised for my aggressiveness and he said I had nothing to be sorry for.  I just said that I didn't think it helped our situation.

He has been very loving so I wasn't surprised that he said he wanted to stay. I also know that our next talk (probably tomorrow) is going to contain the nuts and bolts about what happens next.  I would like him to email/text her to let him know his choice because she would also be waiting to see what he's decided to do with this ball that has been left in his court.  She made it clear that she wanted him to be honest with me so that they could build an honourable foundation so I am going to capitalise on that and point out how violently opposed she is to doing the wrong thing again (in other words, leave H&F and get a divorce).  I am going to ask him to copy me into that email so that she knows that I have seen it. 

For once, we will both be hearing the same message from him (it's what she wants right?)  It is her birthday tomorrow so I am going to be kind an let him have until Sat midday to send it.  That is when he is planning on going away for a boys night so I need to know it's done before he adds alcohol and distance from me to this damaged situation.  Will it stop him texting her that night anyway - who knows? 

I am grateful that he had come home before this happened because otherwise, it would have put that likelihood back a great deal. It makes it so much harder for him to leave.  I really don't think he is enough of a bastard or as lost as he was to try and do both.  I think he is grateful to have been caught out and as painful as a group email would be, it might be his best chance to really stump up and then heal.

Things have a habit of not going the way I thought they would at all, so the above plan is a very loose guide.  Wish me luck!!

[Evermore]

Wishing you loads of luck. I hope he does the right thing. xx

[31andcounting]

H&F
You are strong and steady. You’ve handled all of this extremely well but I’ll go ahead and wish you luck anyway 😉
At this point you have done all the right things. It’s still his crisis and as you know it ain’t over til it’s over!
Stay true to yourself and you’ll have no regrets.

(Hugs)
31

[hopeandfaith]

Just thought I'd pop in with an update because I have a little more time although I feel like this segment of the story is only half way through.

So far no response from ow after my email to her.  H was surprised by that.  He thought she might have sent something apologetic back.  I suggested that she may have gone to write that sort of email a few times and realised that for someone who is begging H to have his actions match his words, she hasn't done the same.

As at last Friday, H had very limited contact with her after my email.  He sent her something along the lines of "$h!te just got real" and to my knowledge (which I think is pretty accurate) he didn't contact her at all for her birthday.

We had a long slate cleaning type of talk on Friday morning which really seemed to lighten his load.  He hadn't told me that he'd seen her although he'd wanted to.  He thought I'd pack his bag for him.  I told him that I would have thought that I would have too.  He told me that he had been in contact with her every few weeks from about Nov last year until current.  Sometimes it would be him instigating it, sometimes it would be her.  He did describe feeling desperate to contact her at one point after she had blocked him.  That says a lot about attachment and addiction I think.

Weirdly, even though he admits that he should've made decisions long before now, it has only really hit him now and he asked for a week to really sit with the consequences of both choices.  As he's talking out loud, it's pretty clear that there is nothing she has that I should be worried about.  I know what he wants but he just needs to be really ready to say goodbye to her as an option.  I pointed out that the week he's asked for includes a boozy boys night and 2 nights in her town but he said that if he had to make a promise here and now, he couldn't do it.  I said that I didn't think he would be in a position to make me a promise for a good while yet but that it would be a good goal.  We agreed that the readiness to make the promise is not the benchmark for now.  I asked him to come back to me in a week to let me know where he's going to put his energy.

It was a really good talk.  Really good.  We started to get to the heart of the issues we've been living with.  We both started to bring the guards down.  We've been tight ever since but at the same time, I have kept the pressure off.  I honestly think that if he chose to leave, it would be solely because he doesn't trust himself not to hurt me again. 

He has been waiting for someone to choose for him all this time and he is now in a position where he absolutely has to.  It's good for him.  At the same time, I have been waiting to be chosen this whole time and I have decided to chose myself.  That doesn't mean what it might sound like it means.  It means that I now have the confidence to put pressure on him and keep pushing him through because I am sick to death of 2 children running my life with their fantasies.  They are both as bad as each other and they have both had a telling off recently.  Still think that was the right thing to do.

Seems to have been a bit of a theme last week because my neighbour threw rocks at my son as he was driving home on his motorbike - for the 3rd time.  We called the police the first time but no formal complaints.  The 2nd time we ignored him.  This time, I'd had enough because he actually hit the bike.  We charged him with breaching a restraining order (from an earlier altercation) and had his drug fuelled butt thrown in jail.  He could have answered the front door when the police came over but he chose not to resulting in a 3 hour standoff, a street full of police and star force officers, broken windows and doors and an aggressive arrest.  I have since positioned myself on the driveway whenever my son comes home in case he decides to do the same thing again but we found him as placid as a kitty cat when we all came home within minutes of each other yesterday and he was in the front yard.  He just kept his head down and kept digging instead of taking a swing at S17 (which what I half expected).  I was really pleased that he was such a drain on resources because I plan to call the cops EVERY SINGLE TIME until he gets sick of spending the night in jail or gets arrested for continually wasting police resources.

So wish me luck homies because this week the monkeys are clapping their hands and ready to invade.  H has been sensitive to what he has asked of me which helps. 

I am going to try and find some of the articles I have read over the years that I think would help him manage the next phase.  It's funny that I feel a deep resistance to 'helping' H now.  He does need the help but I am so frightened I will slip into fixer mode and not keep his toes to the fire - which is EXACTLY what needs to happen now.

[Evermore]

You’re such a star Hope. So proud of how you’re handling things.

[9393roo]

Hope,  at another members suggestion I have read through your entire thread.  Your situation is very much like mine at the moment. You are handling things beautifully.  My H is also home but not really here.  OW makes herself known and we have had discussions recently about her being the line in the sand for me. She is still an employee so she is always there lingering ready to insert herself.

I too have come to the spot where I have chosen me.  I know exactly what you mean by this statement.  I will continue to watch your thread and cheer you from the sidelines.  I will update mine soon as well.  Thanks for your insight! 

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I will post it here for full disclosure but discourage anyone saying anything negative about it because its done.

This gave me time to reflect and contemplate my response. By nature, I am not a confrontational person although I have made vast improvement in that arena. A mentor of mine once said, "As long as you are on firm moral ground, you can shout all day and into the night."

If you were a newbie and your h had just left, I would have stated that the email would not be a wise course of action. First of all, the MLCer is deep in the fog and the OW would use the email to make their relationship stronger.  In fact, best advice is not to engage the OW at all. However, in your situation, your H is not pursuing OW. She is pursuing him and disrespecting you. You have to call out the bad behavior. It's like if a thief broke into my home and instead of confronting him, I told him, "The money and fine jewelry are in this secret compartment of the dresser drawer." I think the email from you was necessary because if you don't take action, she will only intensify her actions.

This brings me to a question that I have never had to face,  how do you bury the affair? Do reach a point to forgive and move forward with the marriage and your lives? What does your H need to do to make her go away forever? After all, you can't live and be in a relationship when every time he gets a text or a message you feel dread. He can't leave to go on business and you spend the night tossing and turning wondering if he is with her. What resolution do you need to move past the affair and know that you are both committed to the marriage?

Maybe too many questions for you right now. Maybe better advice is to chase her out of town with a chainsaw. Nothing brings out sheer terror more than someone coming after you with a chainsaw.

((((Hugs)))

Ready

[hopeandfaith]

Thanks Ever - you are also a star 

9393roo - That would have been a bit of an epic read but thanks for coming along.  I have often seen the similarities in our stories too and I look forward to you updating your thread so I can cheer you on from the sidelines too 

However, in your situation, your H is not pursuing OW. She is pursuing him and disrespecting you. You have to call out the bad behavior. It's like if a thief broke into my home and instead of confronting him, I told him, "The money and fine jewelry are in this secret compartment of the dresser drawer." I think the email from you was necessary because if you don't take action, she will only intensify her actions.

((((Hugs)))

That's exactly how I feel Ready.  It was time.  I was sick to death of standing aside to let her try and steal my family guilt free.   Although H tells me that the way they began their relationship weighed very heavily on her    Uhuh.

It is screamingly obvious to me that they are both as bad as each other.  She actually left the company they worked for (he couldn't) and then she went overseas so it appears, on paper, that she has made a bit of an effort to break free.  H and I spoke on the phone this morning briefly before he was meeting a friend for coffee.  As he is in her town at the moment, he followed it up with a text to say that he'd had a text from her yesterday telling him that she was in another town looking for a rental at the moment and that he thought I'd like to know.  He obviously realised that I doubted the fact that he was meeting another friend for coffee.

She knew he was going to be there this week so it appears she has left town to avoid him.  He could still see her tomorrow when he has to go through the city she is in on his way home.  I don't doubt that he will really want to now that she has played hard to get....which is exactly what it is.  Why tell him of her plans at all?  Neither of their words match their actions because she could have ignored his text if he was the one that instigated contact.

This brings me to a question that I have never had to face,  how do you bury the affair? Do reach a point to forgive and move forward with the marriage and your lives? What does your H need to do to make her go away forever? After all, you can't live and be in a relationship when every time he gets a text or a message you feel dread. He can't leave to go on business and you spend the night tossing and turning wondering if he is with her. What resolution do you need to move past the affair and know that you are both committed to the marriage?

It appears I can reach a point of forgiveness and was able to be in our relationship wholeheartedly after he returned the first time.  I don't know how but I seem to be able to park it. 

What do I need to see from him?  Current ow is just another actress in the show (or face for the dartboard).  He has been describing a lost feeling since day one and has tried to fill it with a number of women, including me.  He has overwhelming evidence now that none of us can do it and I can tell he's freaking out a little bit as to what to do next.  He doesn't trust that a psychologist will help yet and I must admit, I have dealt with a number in my working life that I would never send my family to.  The good ones are brilliant but hard to find.

He is genuinely tired and looking for peace so I feel he is more open to doing the hard work now than he ever has been. I have also reached that point where I am no longer fooled by the romantic notion that they might have something we don't have.  They don't.  They just don't want to find a healthy way to grow up so they feed each others tragic "just can't let you go" fantasy.  I plan to help him and have already sent him some articles yesterday to see how he reacts to that.  I can tell he is grieving the loss of more than her now - he is grieving the end of an era.

[9393roo]

All very interesting and relatable stuff here Hope!

   I can tell he is grieving the loss of more than her now - he is grieving the end of an era.

I believe this is what my H is now having to face.  His OW played a huge role in building our company in her town.  After the affair ended  2 years ago he grieved the loss of her and their relationship, now he needs to grieve the glory days she brought the company.  It now is the end of the end of an era.  The company has come to a screeching halt in her town and he is trying desperately to get that feeling back.  It can’t happen while he is still married to me, also other people know of the affair and are sick of both of them. 

Thanks for posting, learning a lot!

[hopeandfaith]

It is almost admirable how much mental effort they put into getting the feeling back.  If they put that much effort into getting better, it would be awesome.  You just reminded me of a conversation I had with H over 10 years ago - pre all BD's.  My parents marriage was on the rocks and I was talking about them working on it.  H said "there's no point flogging a dead horse".  It hurt me at the time because I took it to mean that he would bail on us if there was ever the slightest reason to.  I was wrong, he bailed on us without the slightest reason to!  And, flogging a dead horse?  Well thats just the epitome of ironic.

The monkeys have been loud this morning.  They are telling me that everything he has told me is a lie.  That he told me that ow was in another town to give him the freedom to move around the town he was in without me freaking out if I checked his 'dot'.  He met that friend for coffee and then he went for a nice walk around the lake instead of a run like he would normally do.  Did he?  Did he meet a female other than ow and got his fix that way?  He then went out to dinner at a Thai restaurant in the evening.  In the airline industry they get used to eating alone so its feasible but did he eat alone last night?

I resent that I am well and truly in his crazy pond this morning.  It's hard to stay above the surface.  My self talk includes telling myself that it doesn't really matter in the long run because his choices remain the same and he knows it.  I am also trying unsuccessfully to focus on what I would be doing if H wasn't here at all and I was fully focused on myself. 

I think I am scared that I won't have the energy to continue or the strength to end it.  Either way, fear is a visitor this morning.

He called this morning to tell me that he is now going away next week but he's going to a different city.  He was also pleased to report that most of his trips away will now be at that city because they have opened up the simulator in that city.  He hates going to the place he has been to this week because it is at a large training facility owned by the company and it is dorm room accommodation - not a hotel.  I am glad because he would have no need to travel to or through either of the towns that ow could be in.  But - she could travel to him.  Or - she could be in the other town looking for rentals for both of them.  Grrr those bloody monkeys.  I will know a lot more tomorrow and probably tonight just by his demeanour.

Wish me luck  getting out of the crazy pond, drying off and onto stable H&F cultivated ground.

[LBS_Les]

It is almost admirable how much mental effort they put into getting the feeling back.  If they put that much effort into getting better, it would be awesome.  You just reminded me of a conversation I had with H over 10 years ago - pre all BD's.  My parents marriage was on the rocks and I was talking about them working on it.  H said "there's no point flogging a dead horse".  It hurt me at the time because I took it to mean that he would bail on us if there was ever the slightest reason to.  I was wrong, he bailed on us without the slightest reason to!  And, flogging a dead horse?  Well thats just the epitome of ironic.

The monkeys have been loud this morning.  They are telling me that everything he has told me is a lie.  That he told me that ow was in another town to give him the freedom to move around the town he was in without me freaking out if I checked his 'dot'.  He met that friend for coffee and then he went for a nice walk around the lake instead of a run like he would normally do.  Did he?  Did he meet a female other than ow and got his fix that way?  He then went out to dinner at a Thai restaurant in the evening.  In the airline industry they get used to eating alone so its feasible but did he eat alone last night?

I resent that I am well and truly in his crazy pond this morning.  It's hard to stay above the surface.  My self talk includes telling myself that it doesn't really matter in the long run because his choices remain the same and he knows it.  I am also trying unsuccessfully to focus on what I would be doing if H wasn't here at all and I was fully focused on myself. 

I think I am scared that I won't have the energy to continue or the strength to end it.  Either way, fear is a visitor this morning.

He called this morning to tell me that he is now going away next week but he's going to a different city.  He was also pleased to report that most of his trips away will now be at that city because they have opened up the simulator in that city.  He hates going to the place he has been to this week because it is at a large training facility owned by the company and it is dorm room accommodation - not a hotel.  I am glad because he would have no need to travel to or through either of the towns that ow could be in.  But - she could travel to him.  Or - she could be in the other town looking for rentals for both of them.  Grrr those bloody monkeys.  I will know a lot more tomorrow and probably tonight just by his demeanour.

Wish me luck  getting out of the crazy pond, drying off and onto stable H&F cultivated ground.

H&F, please let me know how you do it....Perhaps I haven't fully detached (shocker), but I would be losing my mind.  All of these trips, and check ins, they seem healthy, but in my mind,I would be assuming he is with her. 

I know you know better than this, so please don't think I am trying to plant any seeds.  I sense your confidence, your "meh".  How do you get there?

[9393roo]

Hope,

I completely understand all of your thoughts.  My H came home yesterday from a business trip to town where OW lives.  He has to go here at least 2 times a month.  Every single time he returns the monkeys make an appearance.  Thoughts of “I am such a fool for believing him” go through my head often.

He cycles with how much communication he provides when he is traveling and I cycle with focusing on myself.  I believe he is starting to see that I know about he double life he was leading and it is bothering him.   I told myself about the OW withdrawal I would never do this again.  I told him again last night that If he inserts the OW into his life in anyway I was out.  I will find out as many employees we have talk.  If it starts again they will say something to me I’m sure.  It’s horrible to feel like I have to have spies.

My plan B is always circulating in my head.  I hope someday it will stop and I can focus on plan A instead.  A happy, trustful, committed relationship with my H.  I just don’t know if it will ever come because of all the damage.  I know it won’t unless he see it.  Really sees it. 

 

[hopeandfaith]

Gee I really could have written your last post 9393roo!  I too have a plan B circling around in my head.  I also feel like I am a fool for believing him and I am also having trouble focusing on myself.

I seem to be able to observe myself a little bit more now and can see that I have been sucked under by his energy and emotional noise.  I am fighting to get my equilibrium and hope to be able to do so over the next couple of days while he is away again.  The other side of that is the monkeys come back nice and strong.  Fortunately he is not anywhere near her town for at least the next 3 weeks and he seemed genuinely pleased about that.  I take that to mean that he has zero self control at the moment.  He is drinking more than usual too.

I checked the phone bill for the first time since I can remember because I knew I would be able to work out her new number (unless they were using messenger or some other means).  I narrowed it down and recruited Evermore to give her a call and confirm.  She willingly obliged and I am super grateful.  Bless your heart Ever xx.  It seems my email never made it to ow which really disappoints me.  She knows I sent one and H may have given her the broad strokes of what it said but he only read it once.  I wanted her number in case I want to try again.

I was able to confirm that contact started when he said it did (on May 14) albeit earlier in the day.  That was a bit of a theme actually. He has roughly told me the truth but has underplayed the amount of contact while he was away last week.  No phone calls but there was an initial email from him (slightly different email address which I now also have).  There has been nothing since Sat but he has just gone away again so I probably expect it will start up again.  Don't know what I am going to do about that yet except that step one is : H&F needs to get grounded.

We spoke on Sunday while out on a beautiful drive in the country.  I had to initiate and this time he was less open hearted.  I reminded him that he'd asked for a week to consider the consequences of his choices and I wanted to know where that left him.  Apparently he hadn't really thought about it other than his mind hadn't changed and that we are together (so therefore he can't be with her).

He told me that he'd had limited contact with her and it seems she is adamant that she will have nothing to do with him while he is with me (except for lots and lots of firetrucking texts  ).  I feel like this strong approach is just making her more attractive and him sadder.  I am disappointed to say that he is not driving the show here at all.  He really gave me nothing solid on Sunday which makes me pretty angry.

I am angry that he thinks he can just deal with this in his own sweet time and as comfortably as possible for him.  Probably thinks that I am none the wiser too.  Having said that, I was definitely off yesterday after seeing the phone bill and he commented on it.  Super attentive with the acts of service and asked me why I was off.  I just said that some days, my head is more full than others.  I also slept on the couch for most of the night because I just needed my own space.

Really not having much fun at the moment.  Rotten bugger!!

[Treasur]

H&f, I don't know what to say that you don't probably already have in your mind. Other than I am sorry for the rollercoaster. I suppose I just think reading along 'actions vs words' bc he did choose to interact with her and that him thinking he can take own sweet time doesn't mean that you have to go along with that. I suppose I'm not sure what is really different or what you are trying to achieve for yourself given how things seem to be. But I hope you find whatever feels like solid H&f ground to you again bc it sounds as if that is what you want.

[hopeandfaith]

Rollercoaster is a great description Treasur. I feel quite psychotic at times so I am just trying to level out a bit.

You’re right, the actions aren’t matching the words. It’s something he has had constant feedback about from all the ow’s. I have had less of an issue with it because he’s been careful with his words with me, other than me always knowing that he longed for home. His positive actions around that have moved at glacial speeds.

Covid19 has definitely been a challenge for him and I am sad to see that he hasn’t really found healthy coping mechanisms for stress.

[9393roo]

Seriously, are our H’s the same person?? 

Everything here rings true.  My H is trying so hard to get that feeling back with the OW, trying to get his double life back and trying to get me to comply while he does it.  Not happening for me and he is angry and confused. 

I was so completely upset yesterday that I too jumped on that stupid Roller Coaster.  My emotions were all over the place and he made a call to me at the wrong time.  We got into a R talk that left my head spinning.  I tried to explain that every time he lets the OW into his life in ANY way she sees it as an invitation.  He disagreed.  I reminded him of the people he put between them so she didn’t report to him that he was now circumventing (who hate her and will tell me if they think somethings up). I reminded him that I’m not going to stay through all of this crap again.  He tried to gaslight, project and get angry.  I’m having none of it now because I understand what is happening.

I was more upset with myself than with him.  I allowed myself to step back into his messed up world and I had a rotten day.  The longer this goes the more I see and some days it doesn’t look promising. 

You said on a previous post: I don’t know if he is strong enough To fix himself and I don’t know if I’m strong enough to leave him.  That is me right now.  Covid has for sure made me pay more attention to him because I can’t leave to get a break.

Know that you are not alone in your thoughts.  Our H’s have one foot in the tunnel and one foot out, I wonder if which way they are going to make their next step? 

Hang in there.   

Roo

[hopeandfaith]

Your day yesterday sounded like my day on Tuesday Roo.  They suck and I totally understand the disappointment in yourself when you let things overtake you.  By god we have to work hard to manage that...way harder than they seem to be working on anything.

I was fortunate enough to have a 2 hour chat with Evermore last night and she really helped me pull back from thinking from a place of fear.  As I result, I slept really well and today has been quite calm.

Our phone bill cycle ends today so I downloaded the recent calls list last night so that I can check to see if there has been any contact since Sat (last contact).  The activity doesn't actually show up on our bill, it is only accessible by going into our account to see current calls and then drops off when the next billing cycle starts.  I haven't checked it yet and won't until I know what I want to do with the information.  Before I have even seen whats there I get cold and shaky, which is completely related to past shocks so I don't want to do it to myself unnecessarily.  At least I have the info if I want it.

H has not pulled away at all and we have started using Facetime a bit more which is makes the distance less pronounced.  That is probably a gift of the COVID experience because I am so used to seeing people that I am talking to now.  I had to host a quiz for work this morning so I ran all the questions by H first as he lay in bed.  We wouldn't have done that if we'd just been talking on the phone.  Awkward silences don't seem to matter on Facetime. 

[Evermore]

So glad you were settled enough to get a good sleep. You're doing so well.

[9393roo]

Ah the walking the tightrope of trust and attachment.  I know it well.  You start to think that maybe, just maybe, they “get it” then it comes back to hit you in the face!

I’m so glad you have someone to turn to that “gets it”. It does help to talk/write it out with someone who has been there!

I too have a barrage of things I can check.  Email passwords, phone records, employees that would be more than happy to share info.  (I’ve asked them to stop unless it was a glaring piece of info. -so far quiet). I know the punch in your gut feeling when you start to snoop.  It’s so hard.  I told my H once that I cannot spend the rest of my life checking on him, it’s too exhausting. 

We walk a fine line of Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.  I feel it often. 

This morning I feel a better sense of detachment.  I’m back to focusing on me and what I can control.  I’m looking into getting a new puppy, something my H does not agree with.  But oh well.  I got my first dog when he was in OW withdrawal and it saved my life.  She is now his constant companion, and he loves her just as much.

Forward we trudge, so very slowly.....

Wishing you detachment and the peace that it brings.

Roo

[hopeandfaith]

Thought I would pop in for a quick update while I can.

H was home on the weekend between trips and I found him to be very attentive and 'us' focused but without any fanfare.  That's just where he is.  Having said that, he also drank a lot and battled the urge to smoke - which he lost.  He said that he'd been very self destructive lately and it has to stop so he is about to commence another 28 challenge.  The start of that did not go well...more details later.

I haven't been able to check the phone bill again because of a problem with our provider which doesn't concern me at all.  I am obviously not meant to.  What I saw of it last week showed occasional contact - not daily.  Funnily enough, I had a sense on the weekend that if he had been in contact with her at all, it would have been a bit mean.  That idea gained traction yesterday when H text me to say that someone had anonymously complained to the police to say that he was going through a breakup, was unstable and they thought he would fly a plane into a cliff.  The police called the company and the company called  H.  He was stood down and had to speak to a CASA (Civil Aviation Safety Authority) Dr and his own GP for a fairly informal assessment which will be finalised today.  In the meantime, he has been sent home and is on his way now. 

H has NO idea who might have made that call except that it was made to the crimestoppers hotline in the the state that OW lives in.  H is adamant it has nothing to do with her and thinks it might have been done by a guy he had problems with 6 years ago (don't think so H).  I am very confident that he is not a danger to himself or others and anyone that has worked with him recently would likely say the same thing.  For all the $h!te that H has been through, he seems to be able to pull rabbits out of a hat at work.  He runs that part of his life from a different tank. In the family we call it the "Green zone" after D did work experience with him once and noticed that his eyes go really green when he is in work mode.  Other D, who now works with him has noticed the same.  So, this was a vindictive and serious act and we are grateful that his medical has not been removed while he undergoes an examination.

Interesting times for us because the massive fat arse elephant in the room now is that I think ow or her team had something to do with it but he doesn't.  It annoys me that he could be that naive but I can understand the embarrassment that would come from thinking it might be her.  D20 is now in the loop about what has been happening recently and she summed him up really well.  She said he's in really rough water at the moment, made worse by COVID and that its probably good for him in the long run but it sucks now.  There has been a strong theme of being attacked, stolen from or lied about around us lately so the world really has been subtly and not-so-subtly delivering a lot of blows this year.

I have a strong feeling that I need to really step back now and just support where I can.  It would be way too easy to accidentally become an enemy now and I am not gonna let that happen.

Hope those puppy plans are coming along Roo.  MASSIVE doggie lover here 

[Treasur]

Yup, has textbook ow written all over it. I remember my then h denying ow had sent the first nasty anonymous notes 'bc he asked her and she said she didn't', even when much later he found out she had lied and stolen from him, he married her a couple of months later. Not sure why but the kind of folks who have affairs seem given to both drama and delusion in the face of the obvious.

I'm not sure what your goal is with your h right now, H&f, but yes standing far far back would seem wise. And perhaps having a contingency plan if things get worse or indeed his job becomes at risk.

[Milly]

Hope, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this possible nasty interference from the OW (really starting to sound like Basic Instincts now) and the uncertainty of your H's job. This might be a good lesson for your H, though. He might be trying to convince himself that this has nothing to do with OW, but I bet inside there are doubts. Our Hs convince themselves that the OW, who was willing to split up a marriage, is a very nice person. In spite of many times the OW is blatantly not a good person, our Hs ignore it, they don't want to see it. I hope he has an awakening regarding the OW from this experience. I hope it doesn't ruin his career, though.

You are doing amazingly considering the stress you must be feeling. Thank you for continuing to post to show us all how hard it is to have a MLCer come home.

[9393roo]

Hi Hope,

The high drama never ends does it?  I’m getting the same thing here.  Our company is imploding and my H is trying to run back into the tunnel.  I decided to check his email because an employee reached out to me needing something that my H would not get back to her on.  He is traveling to replay town(where original OW was ) and I found emails to another employee who is in her 20’s trying to get her to have dinner with him.  She was trying to get out of it and he was creepily pursuing.  I don’t know how much longer I can stay in this marriage.  I have no respect for him right now.  He is a creepy stranger again.  This was after a really great weekend with the family. 

As KIT said on her thread, I wish I could run far far away this morning.  It almost feels like he is trying to make me run.  It’s too hard to face himself so he is going to dive into the tunnel with both feet.  My son said to me this morning that maybe it was time for me to separate.  He might be right.  I am thinking I may need a lawyer.  It’s weird because I feel very calm about it.  I have been through so much crap the last 4 years and have held on to what I thought we still might have in our marriage.  I think he needs to see me leave.  I think I need to leave for my own sanity.

Puppy is on hold for now until I find my balance again!  I have my MLC pug who has been my constant companion the last 2 years. 

I feel  like I am being tested to my core today.  It may be time for me to make a bigger move.  Staying is like watching a slow moving train ruin my life and our life together for the last 35 years.  It just keeps coming forward and I’m trying to stay ahead of it. 

Sorry such a downer, today MLC can kiss my a$$. 

[hopeandfaith]

Oh Roo, I am so sorry you've been hit by another blow.  I can completely relate to how you feel.  I know that you will settle and find your way forward again - and probably in record time (due to practice).

They do say that it's darkest before the dawn but we also have no way of knowing if this will just never end.  Bigger moves always feel the most enticing on days like these but give yourself a chance to take a breath and straighten your shoulders.

Not surprised to see that you all agree that it was likely ow.  We got a few more details about the call.  Apparently the caller said that H is really depressed and has had several conversations about flying his plane into a hill.  Really?  Who has several conversations about that?  H has only been to that State twice since March so he has offered the names of every person he had contact with while there.  Due to COVID, its a pretty short list.  If the call was made from another state (ie ours) it just supports the theory that it's vindictive and aimed at diverting suspicion because otherwise, why wouldn't you call the local authorities.

H also gave my name to the medical officer and she called me yesterday.  I think she felt quite comfortable with my assessment.  I have training in mental health first aid and first hand experience of a person who committed suicide.  I was very comfortable having that conversation with her - its a language I understand and she said I was definitely a mitigating factor.  H is stood down until he passes a medical next week and the company are being very good about it.  Everyone knows it is a vexatious claim.

H is angry and wholeheartedly believes that there is no one (besides a guy from years ago) that he has upset enough to do this.  The elephant is still there but I suppose it doesn't really matter in the long run.  Doesn't change my actions.

Gotta go, be back later

[9393roo]

Thanks Hope,

I didn’t mean to highjack your thread with my problems!  Maybe it can help someone else who is in the same stage as we are.  Limbo.

I have to say besides BD this is one of the darkest places I’ve seen my H.  He has gone into complete shutdown and is manic about his company.  I’m hearing from more and more people about how he is forgetting everything, is snappy and rude.  It’s not the same boss they used to love, he is not the same H I used to love. 

He is traveling and sent me a text last night that said “Don’t give up on me”. I just responded “Please fix yourself and don’t give up on yourself”. He responded with an angry “you need fixing too”.  I just said “I intend to fix myself, you’re right”.  He responded with more anger until I just stopped. 

Is this darkest before the dawn?  Who knows.  I am standing up a little straighter this morning and starting The work to “fix myself” again.  All of my kids are on their way home and we have a beach house for the weekend.  Who knows if my H remembered or if he will even go.  At this point, I don’t care.

Reconnecting is not for the faint of heart for sure.  Big changes are coming my way, I feel it.  Big changes need to come my way.  My old marriage is completely dead.  Wonder if something new will take its place.  I know that I can’t be the only one who wants a new marriage.  Hope my H can fix himself before all those who love him give up on him. 

Again, sorry for highjacking!  Off to plan a great weekend!

[hopeandfaith]

Just thought I would post a little update although there isn't much to report thankfully.

H's investigation is now closed although it did go on a little longer than first thought.  The CASA side of it was shut down very quickly with H declared a victim of a vexatious claim.  He didn't need to go for the blood test or any other medical consults.  He did a couple of "check flights" to prove his mental health and he is back on deck this week - unfortunately back to ow's neck of the woods.

When this came through on his roster about 10 days ago, it prompted a 'where are you now' conversation.  Contact has fizzled out and H no longer has her number.  He offered to block her email and I said that would be good but I am not sure if he has.  I wish he did have her number so he could block it but apparently he doesn't and I think I believe him.  He offered to call in sick for this week but given the kerfuffle lately, that wouldn't be a good idea. 

Overall it was a good conversation which felt honest and more like we were talking about an addiction that he needs to manage rather than a person.  I asked him to plan for the weak moments because they are likely to happen.  I have sensed a slight increase of weight on his shoulders over the last few days as this trip approached.  As I type, he is driving to her home town from the town she used to live in (not sure which one she is in right now).  The last time he did this was with her.  He would normally fly but flights were booked so he has to do a 5 hour drive.

I am choosing to let it go and focus on the last couple of weeks which have been really solid.  The CASA $h!te fight was a bit of a blessing in the end because he was really distracted from thoughts of ow and also at home for 8 nights more than he would have otherwise been.  I honestly felt no vibe or presence of her whatsoever.  I haven't checked the phone bill because I haven't felt like I needed to at all. 

We have really enjoyed our time together and it has been a bit productive too.  I have been wanting to refurbish the bedroom furniture that H had at his place because I like it better than the one we had.  I never got round to it and it was just causing a mess so H suggested we sell the lot and start again.  I put it all up for sale and the furniture we are sleeping on sold within 24 hours.  We are now sleeping on a mattress on the floor for 6 weeks until our new furniture arrives.  I suggested that this might be a good opportunity to re-paint and re-carpet and H initially completely rejected the idea because he couldn't deal with even more mess.  Within 24 hours he had come around and within 72 hours, it was done.  These little acts of service seem to really help him settle down a bit and have been a feature of both returns.

Anyhoo, the monkeys are here for a bit this week but I will manage them and focus forward.  Hoping to have a bit more H free time this week to check in on some of my forum friends too 

[Milly]

Hope, I'm so glad your H has gotten through this nasty episode at work and that during that time you have both grown closer. Love the sound of a completely new bedroom for both of you. Even love the idea of camping out on a mattress on the floor for a few weeks! A little like being students.

You have been amazing and so patient through all this. I find it really interesting that your H is feeling heavier now that he has to face going back to OW territory. I think this is a good sign. I remember my H's all smily to himself the nights before he was due to go to OW city, although I didn't know about OW at the time.  In hind sight, it was grotesque. Glad that for your H going to OW town now is not a thing to look forward to. I wouldn't be surprised that even though your H doesn't think OW sent the anonymous tip, the bug is in his ear. Good if he finally starts seeing her for what she is.

[hopeandfaith]

And wouldn't you know it...I spoke too soon.

The monkeys got real loud when H decided last Tues night that he would catch up with friends at the local hotel for a few beers.  He would know this is a trigger for me because he knows that drinking in enemy territory is an arsehole thing to do.  I tried to stay calm and think I managed.  He sent me a snapchat photo of the guys which I appreciated.

Night 2 and he is going out again.  Real weird vibe from him this time though.  He ended up having 1 beer and then going back to his room to drink.  Called me at about 10pm to say goodnight and sounded flat.  Was ow there?   I don't know if she was even in that town (W) or if she's found a place in the other town (S).  Interestingly, the next night was H's choice because he had to drive from W to S to catch his flight home and could have done that at night or in the morning.  If he was seeing her, it would make sense that he would choose the town that she was in.  He chose neither and stayed the night at a friends house in between.

The weird vibe sent me to the phone records and I was shocked to find that contact continues pretty frequently.  It looks like it had a short break and started up again the afternoon of the anonymous tip off.  It didn't happen on the weekends or from home which is probably why I didn't sense it.  What shocked me was that I hadn't sensed it at all.  That really rocked me for a few days.  It looks like texts only as there are no calls or emails showing up and they normally would.  Could mean that he has another way of contacting her.

We then spent the weekend with his parents so it was a bit difficult to get a good read in a different environment.  I would probably describe him as a bit withdrawn but it could have been the circumstances too.  He is away again this week having promised himself a 6 week challenge starting Monday.  No such luck - a social, arm-twisty, kinda crew saw to that.  Day 1 starts today and he has committed to Dry July.  Last year he got 4 days in.  I honestly don't know if he will make it that far this time.  He is smoking cigars most of the time while he is drinking now too.

On the whole, he is in struggle town and trying hard to hide it.  So am I.  Evermore has been helping me keep my cool and I have been more focused on self care and 'zooming out' of the situation.  I found the 'Healing broken trust' podcast very helpful yesterday in helping me step back and leave this to H to manage.  It is testing my resolve to not intervene and to leave this to him to sort out.  Believe me, I have run many conversations in my head about how I notice his withdrawal and that I sense it is because ow is still around and that I won't tolerate that for much longer. 

Truth is,  I don't really know what is the chicken and what is the egg in this scenario but they all seem to sit in the same addictive basket. I have been as cool as a cucumber about the drinking and smoking which leaves him no one to fight with except himself.  I think this approach is right for ow too.  After 3 years we know she is a side piece at best.  Her recent behaviour has also confirmed that her new stronger, post U.K move, image of honourable woman who will not make the same mistakes of the past and values honesty above all else is bull$h!te.   In the long run, she would have remained a lot more attractive if she'd matched her words with her actions (which was soooo important to her) because now she is going to lose what little respect she has from H.

It occurred to me the other day that she has never really received love from him because his love languages are Acts of Service and Time.  She never really got the time which was one of her chief complaints.  If you're not having the time, you're not getting much of an opportunity for the Acts of Service either.  She definitely serves a purpose although I am not sure what that is other than being a human form of beer.  I imagine that time will see her starting to sneak some requests/demands in there so I shall step aside and just let that whole thing combust on its own.  Way easier said than done though

I never posted the email she sent to H on here but I will, so you can all see how sensible and honourable these chicks can seem.

Good morning to you,
I need you to be honest to me and to H&F, as from the moment we kissed Thursday, afternoon we were doing the wrong thing and I am not placing myself back in that position again. It's what you do right now that will allow us to build our foundation with strength, to enter into this relationship honorably and this is most important to me.  It's your actions now that will illustrate to me you have changed, you have learnt from past mistakes and it will prove to me you now mean what you say.  Your actions are more important and hold more meaning than they ever have before.  I mean it when I say I am not getting involved (H's name), I am not walking our same errors and I know you don't want to either. I don't have to see you in W, I can keep my distance.  I don't want to but right now its for the best.

I'm sorry I've come back and am making life messy.  Turn your back on me and I will understand, I know you are doing it to protect your family. For you I want nothing but peace and happiness and I truly mean that.  I am always going to be here, I love you, I always will.  Do the right thing from this moment onward, for yourself more than anyone else xoxox

That was over 6 weeks ago so yeah, I think we can call that email a fail 

[Evermore]

You’re so strong H&F. It’s a really crappy situation but I think you’re working your way through it in such a strong calm way (I know you’re not always so clam! But I admire how you can pull yourself back together so quickly and so well).

Thank you for listening to me today and for ‘being there’. It’s invaluable. Xx

[Gracie3]

Can’t describe how disappointing it is to read the latest revelation regarding OW contact.  Your right, HF, it’s all part and parcel with the addiction basket.  The OW contacts authorities, has your husband undergo evaluation, he calls her to confront (I assume), manipulative drama starts all over again.  Ridiculous.  Childish.  I honestly beginning to think that these MLCers never recover.  EVER.  Even the ones trying, like your’s, KIT’s, Roo’s, Song and Dance are a few that come to mind that are trying to reconnect.  I think I’ve lost all faith in the recovery of these men.  We as spouses are strong as hell.  That’s probably why our husbands were drawn to us in the first place.  And these broken men mirrored us and our strength because they didn’t have their own.  We all have to do what’s best for us bc they sure as hell aren’t looking out for our best interests, are they?  Just sending you virtual hugs and encouraging you to channel that strength to look after your first.  Put your own oxygen mask on!!!

[hopeandfaith]

Hi all, I thought I would pop back for an update.

Things have been good since my last post and I am proud to say that the shift really started with me.  At the time I last posted, It had really started to sink in that ow is a side piece and will never be more than that.  She had 3 years to move from that to 'significant other' and it didn't happen.  Critically, I decided to not check the phone records again.  Practically it told me nothing about the content of their contact but it sure as hell kept me riding that rollercoaster with them. It was very bad for my mental health.  I was then able to come to a place of almost acceptance about ongoing contact. In fact, I thought, better the devil you know!  Until he is healthy enough to completely break free, I'd rather it be her that takes his attention.  I even imagined her emailing me, in the name of being honest, when it became clear that I was not reacting and I decided I would not even open it because I had no curiosity about anything she could wish to tell me - including sorry. 

Fortunately, things seemed to really settle down.  I know that I hadn't really sensed the contact before but I could really feel a shift in energy from him when he returned from that next trip that he went on the following week.  A real sense of relief - like he'd broken a fever or something.  When he returned from that trip it was like he was really awake and really enjoying looking at me.  If I had to guess, I'd say he was ecstatic to have gotten through a trip without seeing or speaking to her.  I haven't checked the records so I don't know.  He has remained on an even keel since then and fortunately, we got about 3 weeks of him being home due to roster changes (some of which resulted from that complaint). 

I didn't make any comment about that change of mood because it's not like he could say how pleased he was for his behaviour without outing himself for anything dodgy he did before that - which I sensed and assumed.  Instead, it took a few weeks for him to bring up "the elephant in the room".  He apologised for not telling me how much he loves me often enough and how his head space is focused on us.  My niece had just gotten engaged and he said that he was so pleased that we were celebrating as a complete family.  The world is tipped up the right way.  He still feels like he doesn't deserve it but said that this is his "forever home".

Last week and this week he returned to those towns.  I don't know where she is but H has been completely transparent and 'easy' feeling while he has been there.  For the first time in years, I was actually relaxed about him going.  The good thing about that is that he feels my energy and  it probably helps him feel a sense of achievement or something?  He keeps inching even closer as the days pass.  Both of our guards continue to come down.

HOWEVER, there has been another report this week - this time to CASA directly (but anonymously).  This report says that H has been partying with the flight attendants in the company hotel until 4 am and then going flying and senior management are covering it up.  Presumably that is why this person (who sounds female to the CASA officer due to the language used) is concerned enough to complain again.  Pretty stupid claims because:
a) no one is bloody flying at the moment so there are very few flights to get drunk before
b) there are cameras and other staff at the hotel who can be checked - and will see him going into the gym and ordering lamb shanks for room service
c) the airline made H jump through a long row of hoops before they let him fly again so there is no covering up going on.
d) the flight attendant department will be checked to verify to see if it really is "well know among their department"

The CASA agent thinks that it is someone from the airline because they know enough about senior management (note: ow used to be an operations manager) and know his movements.  H is convinced that it is the guy from 2014 but I don't think he would have the slightest idea about H's movements although he is currently stood down after failing a check so that might suggest he has an axe to grind. 

ow's sister works at the small regional airport that H arrives at when he goes on those trips so there is no avoiding her if she is on shift.  It is probably more feasible that ow (or her sister) have realised that H's career was not tanked by the first complaint so they are trying again.  And also hoping that there might be another "did you complain to CASA" text coming her way again.  For that reason, I am pretty much going along with the theory of the first guy.  The only problem is that they want to call him.  H actually recommended that they didn't because there would be nothing to gain.  He would definitely deny it but would also definitely say that the claims are true  . He might accidentally out himself in the course of the conversation though so you never know.  Once again, I need to step aside and trust that whatever happens needed to happen and just focus on nurturing the bond between H and I.

In positive family news, I had a long conversation with MIL on the weekend.  I was basically able to right all those heartbreaking wrongs that happen when family just believes that: there must have been something wrong with the relationship; the ow is a nice person; H would be happier if we (LBFamily) would only accept this and move on & he doesn't still love you so why are you hanging on.  She is not a hugger but she gave me a huge one and told me that she thinks I am mad but she is very grateful that I had the strength to do what I did and love him like I have.

In negative family news, SIL strikes again.  My passive aggressive narcissistic SIL rang H the other day to ask if they were ok...
H: Yeah why?
SIL: Because we don't talk any more since you and H&F have been back together
H: I don't talk to my other sister either (note: she was only discovered last year so hasn't really had 40 odd years of relationship history  )
SIL: Well I know that H&F doesn't like me
H: What?
SIL: She thinks I never should have broken up with BIL (4 years ago....honey, he is much better off without you!!)
H:  I think you're overthinking it SIL (and shuts her down).

You know what SIL,  I don't actually like you.  You are 100% correct and better at reading me than I gave you credit for.  It may have something to do with you accusing me of having an affair with BIL, chasing a new man in a town 2 hours away when your daughter was suffering complications from a termination, stabbing me in the back in 2016 by telling H that he is my puppet and then stabbing me in the back again in 2020 by pulling the "blood is thicker than water card" and telling H that her relationship suffers when I am around. 

She is flat out intimidated by me because I think she knows I think she is a $h!te parent.  Based on the fact that her kids come to me when the $h!te hits the fan in their world and the fact that she talks herself up whenever we are talking.  As much as I know all of this, it still pisses me off that she gets to sling mud and then be the one who's hurt.  My poor niece had to take the day off work on the day after she got engaged to calm her mother down because she chose to have a celebratory drink with her father who was 10 mins down the road rather than encourage her mother (who was 3 hours away) to leave where she was and come home.  SIL was devastated that she was told "not to come".

Can you tell that I have a massive problem with her.  Incidentally, the guy she was chasing instead of helping her daughter who was bleeding from the anus, is now her boyfriend of 3+ years.  He is yet to tell her he loves her however he keeps her around because she is good at cleaning port-a-loos at his tourist property.  That's mean.  I am sure he likes her for more than that but God help me 

Not a very gracious way to finish off but ya know....it helps to get it out 

[UrsaMajor]

Better out than inI

[hopeandfaith]

Popping in to give a bit of an update and keep a record for myself of the journey....and it is a bumpy journey!  This has been a heck of a year (global understatement) and I will be glad to see the back of it.  Poor ole 2021 has a fair bit of pressure and expectation lumped on it but oh well.

When I last updated, H was jumping through hoops to clear his name from allegations of drinking, cheating, depressed flying and everything you wouldn't want your pilot to be doing (actually except drug taking).  He had to be cleared by an addiction specialist and pass a number of medical tests before he was able to fly - all of which he did.  The attacks kept coming.  The entire family got a Facebook friend request from someone claiming to be a flight attendant with the company.  It was a newly created profile which stated that the person was in a complicated relationship.  The only other info on the page was a comment which said "why don't they ever tell you they're married, lol".   H, who is not on Facebook reported it to the company for transparency and because it involved the company name.  Unbeknown to him, the company had received an email from someone with an email address matching the Facebook profile name.  This email accused H of rape.  H was not told about this until 2 years worth of security footage from the hotel in question were viewed and found no such contact with any flight attendant EVER.  The attacks then continued on D18's Tik Tok and Instagram accounts which were vile accusations about H being a serial cheater who was a creep with the flight attendant department and was facing a lawsuit.  The claims have gotten increasingly desperate and untrue.

The difficult thing is that there has been truth to most of this cheating stuff and H has had to face it over and over again.  He decided to go to the police to try and track this person down.  That was 3.5 hours of a confessional type statement.  Our cyber stalking laws are seriously lacking so there was basically nothing that could be done.  H has also spoken to his cousin who is a lawyer about getting the full transcripts and recordings of the complaints that were originally received by Crimestoppers and CASA.  We have been advised that IT style professionals would likely be able to source the culprit but there isn't much we could do beyond that.  I am kinda glad about that because I don't want to be tied in some legal battle with pond scum going over the details of the last few years.  We do want it stopped and there are still ways to reduce our digital footprint which will either stop the stalking or escalate it to something definitely criminal.

We both don't think it is ow (or friends) because of things that have been said and also because ow and H have remained in intermittent contact. Towards the end of August, contact resumed and I think it was H who initiated it.  I found out for sure in November when I saw a text about moving to her town.  You would think that all hell would have broken loose on that one but I had felt the contact resume and adopted a watch and wait approach.  To chop a long and ugly story short, H has been keeping ow hanging with promises to move interstate which he is sure she knows will never happen.  Deadlines came and went and H spiralled down to a point where the panic of really letting her go had him seriously considering leaving.

One night, it was at its worst.  H was in her state and due to come home the next day.  He was crying on the phone and talking about how it was only just really hitting him how much damage he'd done to the kids and how he was such a c--t.  It was a horrible conversation and I felt helpless.  I text him the next morning to acknowledge the dark place he had been in and said I hoped he was in a brighter place today.  He apologised and said he was looking forward to coming home.  That was a bit of a relief because  I had been pretty sure that he was going to come home the next day and tell me he was leaving.  When he got home, he clung to me and any resolve he might have had dissolved.  Needless to say, I hadn't slept the night before and somewhere in my waking hours, I had decided that I wasn't going to let him drive our family off a cliff again because he was a "c--t" and hadn't yet worked out how not to be a "c--t".  I decided that I wanted a seat at the table and wanted to get real about the addictive nature of this affair.

We talked a few days after his return and I told him that I had felt he was planning to come home and tell me he was leaving and that I had decided I wanted a seat at the table and wanted the elephants evicted.  I told him that I'd thought the only reason he'd leave was because he hadn't yet worked out how not to be a "c--t" and he told me that I had nailed it.  That was exactly his position.  He assured me that she was about to move on (something he had been repeatedly saying) and I asked him how he was so sure.  He said she had given him a deadline of the end of Nov. 

That came and went and H remained very heavy.  She was not gone.  He asked me for a talk.  Told me that I had wanted a seat at the table and he needed to talk to get some clarity.  Let me tell ya folks...you need to be careful what you wish for.  When I sat at that table, all I saw was a bunch of empty shot glasses.  It was like talking to a drunk person and you just have to nod and wait for them to sober up before you can point out the stoopid $h!te they just said. That talk might have been a test to see how I reacted to hearing about his feelings for her and how close he had come to moving to her town or it might just have been the purge that he seems to need, to clear the slate for us to move forward.  Either way, it was a brutal conversation.   The @$$hole had actually considered leaving on his motorbike 2 days before my birthday and our anniversary.  She had gotten so excited that she'd told her parents he was coming.  That made him really angry because he obviously knew he was a doubtful prospect at best.  He told me that he was never supposed to return home after his last trip and that she was very upset when he rang her on his way home to tell her that he needed to come home and talk to me and finish some shifts that he had been rostered (he has since started 6 weeks off).  That explained the night that was really bad that I mentioned above - that was decision time for him.

That brutal conversation happened on the Wed and he was supposed to leave on the Friday.  Friday came and went, he remained at home.  The following weekend (last weekend) we had been booked to go away for the weekend for my birthday and our anniversary.  Week 1 of ow withdrawals was rough and I really felt that our weekend away was bad timing.  It turned out to be the opposite.  We were both surprised by how good it was.  The conversations got brutal again and we actually had a huge fight on our way home but I would call the weekend a huge success.  It helped us both really see our potential.  I found out that H had sent a text to ow on the Friday telling her that he wouldn't be derailing his family again.  He honestly thinks that will be it (ow has threatened to go on tinder  ). She now knows that I know everything which I was very happy about.  If she thought she had any cards up her sleeve, they have been removed.  I am not happy with the lukewarm goodbye.  Seemed like much more of a comma than a full stop to me.  I figure that she will either go away like H thinks she will (because she has so much self respect and strong boundaries) or she will escalate her crazy.  Either way, I shall continue to step out of her way and focus on H and I. 

H said that they have stayed in contact for most of the year in "bursts" and that they hadn't actually seen each other since June. Some of their contact was "how's the weather", some was declarations of love.  I think she was the one that said he couldn't see her unless he left me.  That really backfired for her I think because I actually think it suited H.  I think this all might have come to a head a bit sooner if they had been in contact.  Thank god they weren't because H thinks she is really keen to have a baby and will probably go the sperm donor path if she doesn't meet anyone ASAP.  He has quite a bit of guilt over the fact that he has wasted her baby making years.  Definitely didn't want anymore kids though and thinks she would be a really bossy mother.  There really is nothing about her life that he wanted to be part of.  All he wanted was what she gave to him (that last bit was my conclusion)

I also found out that she was only ever going overseas for 1 year in which H was supposed to get divorced and be ready for her return.  Must have been a crushing blow when she found out that he'd moved back home.  God he's been the very worst example of a man for a good few years now.  Still blows my mind.  I will say that Karma has been beating on his arse this year though and he has faced it head on.  He knows that the only way forward is with total honesty which I have to say, I am still getting used to.  This honesty thing seems like a better deal for him than me at the moment.  I am the one needing a good break between "talks" while he seems to be getting gradually lighter day by day.  I am worried about his return to work but that is still 5 weeks away so I will tackle that (or not!!) then.

[Milly]

Thanks for the update, Hope. Lots of interesting information on how hard it is for the MLCer to break off with the OP even when they know they want to. You have been amazing at dealing with all this. I'm sure you've had some difficult days and nights, who wouldn't. But you seem to winning, for want of a better word. I hope your H keeps making progress towards you and finally gets rid of this affair addiction which is destroying you all. x

[Treasur]

My word, h&f. What a s&itshow you have all been through.
I am presuming that you are finding where you are workable for you to some extent or you wouldn't be doing what you are doing, so I'm not going to offer my opinion on that bc it doesn't matter, but wanted to acknowledge how brutal and exhausting it sounds as if it has been to live with.

I smiled though at this.....

decided that I wasn't going to let him drive our family off a cliff again because he was a "c--t" and hadn't yet worked out how not to be a "c--t".

bc it seemed like such a wonderfully straight speaking snapshot of an MLCer. 

I hope you and your kids are ok. I hope that the worst of the WTF s&itstorm is behind you..

[Evermore]

You already know I think you’re amazing Hope. Kind and calm (at least on the surface 😉). You’ve got this (whatever happens). Thanks for always listening to my waffle xx

[hopeandfaith]

Thought I would document a little bit more of the journey.

H is now back at work after 7 weeks off.  He is away for a week but not in ow's town.  Hopefully there aren't any trips to her town in the foreseeable future either.  Just seems like a trigger that neither of us need.

The 7 weeks off were very good overall.  Over the Xmas and New Year week there was excessive drinking which didn't look out of place because we were at the river and that was how you could have described most people.  H had sent out a wide broadcast to friends telling them when we would be there for about a week and he invited them to join us.  We ended up with about 30 friends coming over that period of time for a night or two.  We said goodbye to one group and another group would arrive.  It was great and really interesting to see how different people bring different energy with them.  It's not noticeable until you have a revolving door situation of people coming and going. On one end of the spectrum, there was a chaotic, party girl hurricane that visited.  I wrote about her last year as H had taken her for a ride on his Harley and I had raised it as a red flag.  She is a great girl except that she wears us all out after a while.  On the other end, we had a couple of different people come who had a really calm energy about them.  They even seem to move more slowly.  I really loved spending time with them - they really helped fill my tank.

H had a detox when he got back and went 2 weeks without any alcohol.  That was nice too.  Especially since he was still on annual leave and that just usually means that he is drinking most days until it's over.  We got some repairs done on our camper and tootled around on the Harley for a few coffee's around the place. 

Last week, H started getting edgier.  He has been joking about going on unpaid leave for a year and picking fruit instead of having to travel in a COVID world.  He still gets really agitated reading the news about some of the sillier rules that come with COVID.  In our country, we are so blessed to have the freedoms that we still do but it is not a terribly united country when it comes to movement across internal borders.  There is no confidence in our ability to go interstate and then get back again.  I am guessing the COVID anger is masking other internal anger or fear still.  Still, it's an outlet for him I guess, so I play along.

This last weekend was spent at the river (the last hurrah) and H's energy got so heavy at some points that I thought he was texting ow again.  In fact I was sure of it and I was massively triggered.  Couldn't look at him a couple of times - just so disappointed.  I decided to check the phone records when I got back because I wanted to know for sure.  I think I was wrong.  There were still a few calls that needed to load on the download but there was enough info there to make me feel fairly certain that he hasn't been in contact.

Checking the phone records always causes me such a physical reaction and also feels like a detachment failure so I don't do it very often but I think that maybe this time, it was helpful.  I say that because I realised that I had assumed that he was contacting her again and it changed my behaviour to/with him.  I was more snarky and distant.  I now see a different possibility explaining his behaviour. Our 7 weeks together has probably been a form of replay or escape.  It might have been easier for him not to deal with things as we suspended normal living and were in holiday mode.  I now think that we were both a bit edgy about him returning to work and started bouncing off each other negatively.  If I am ever going to offer trust and faith before it is earned, now is the time.  Living from my wounded place was not helpful at all...for either of us.  Even if he had resumed contact, this might still hold true?

On the stalking front, things have maybe settled down a bit??  Probably only because D19 and I have reduced our digital footprint even more.  I got a friend request on Messenger from a person claiming to be Samantha Jones but the profile pic was actually a pic of a flight attendant friend of ours.  The accompanying message said that they felt sorry for me because they had been told by H that we had split 10 years ago and had never reunited but that they have seen me a work events since that time.  I haven't been to a work event since 2012 but some of the group that visited us at the river were definitely work people. 

I am thinking that someone has posted a pic of us all having a great time and the stalker has seen this on Facebook.  It still fits that it could be the person we think it is, because he is Facebook friends with a huge number of work people.  Anyhoo, I didn't respond and I have shutdown Facebook and Messenger for now.  I was semi-tempted to lure this person into a face to face "tell me more" type of meeting but didn't bother because I know they would never actually go for it and I probably wouldn't learn more from that process either.

Feeling pretty calm and centred right now.  I actually quite like it when H goes away because I can do a bit more reading and watching chick flicks etc.  Its probably good for him too.  I didn't feel like he was mask wearing on his leave but different places bring about different emotions so he would no doubt be living from a slightly different part of his personality (as am I) right now.  We can't hide in our little holiday bubble forever so onward we march.

[UrsaMajor]

Hmmmmm .....

Interesting and somewhat tangled path forward, isn't it?

The LBS has to be fully aware of her/his own "stuff" that gets in the way as well but makes the conscious decision to deal with it... The "recovering/recovered" Mid-Lifer as well... Meanwhile, the Mid-Lifer still in the throes of the Crisis... runs away? Shifts blame?

Regardless, reconnection/reconciliation is not for the faint of heart!

Wishing you good fortune as you grow forward!

[hopeandfaith]

Well H has been home for a year today so I thought it would be a good time to reflect and update.

In short, it has been a really tough year.  Far harder than it was when he returned in 2014.  You could suggest that I/we were still living in denial then and maybe there were red flags. He was home for 3 years before the bomb went off again, so who knows.

Things continue to improve although it is still only a month since he last reached out to ow.  I saw 2 attempts to call her on our phone bill (my spidey senses were going off) and I flat out asked him if there had been any contact.  He admitted very vaguely that there had been but that he was now in a place he had never been before and felt confident that that was it.  He is not the kind of guy to say this and make these false promises and his energy since really seems to indicate that he has passed some sort of threshold or one-way valve.  Closed a door, I guess you might say.  I pushed him for some details on the contact and he was vague because I think he was embarrassed that she hadn't answered.  He was honest that there was contact so he wasn't trying to save himself.  He also wasn't trying to protect her reputation by telling me she hadn't answered - I think he was simply embarrassed.

The contact before that had been a drunk text in early Feb that I saw her answer to.  I stumbled across it by accident and read her response to what must have been a "thinking about you" type of text (that he had deleted).  That was based on her reply which was a poetic vomitus confirmation that they had parted ways in Nov and that she 'felt him' from time to time.  She encouraged him to make her a stranger or, alternatively, turn up on her doorstep.  She gently chastised him for texting her late on a Sat night and asked if he knew how that made him look.....(ooh, oooh, pick me!!!....like he's drunk texting??)  She finished off with a confirmation of the anchor check and a guess that she would next hear from him when the moon was high 

So, as we were entertaining at the time, I didn't mention it to H, who hadn't seen her message at that point.  He later picked up his phone to look up something else for a friend and saw her message, along with the fact that it had been read.  He managed to keep his cool but I saw his realisation and it actually felt a bit powerful.  We talked about it later and he was very angry at himself and very apologetic to me.  He has no confusion over where he wants to be and doesn't know why he did it.  There wasn't any other contact following that until those 2 attempted calls about a month later.  What a slow and painful death this is!!

We have been invited to an event that might feature one of the girls he dated while we were separated.  I have avoided her up to now and am still not ready to run into her intentionally, but am getting closer.  I actually think that she will avoid these events if she knows I am going anyway but I need to process this enough to get comfortable with her being there...or not - as is my right.

I chatted to H about it and he rang the host to see if she will be there.  She won't, but we discussed how I feel about it and he is fully supportive of me never having to see her and us "managing" it going forward.  A year ago, he asked if he could still go but this year, when I asked if the "managing it" meant he went and I didn't, he said "$h!te no, I wouldn't do that??"

We had another interesting episode at the river when a friend of ours (and mutual friend of EVERYONE'S) brought a pilot friend of hers.   I had never met her but quickly deduced that she must know OW1 quite well because of her time in the company and training etc.  I didn't see the point in talking to H about this before hand but he did confirm later that he had hung out with her socially back in the day.  I took her on face value and found her to be friendly enough and warm-ish to me.  The friends that brought her with them love me, so that was nice.  Lots of "I firetrucking love you H&F" from the back of the ski boat as I drove their drunk butts home  . 

The interesting part of it was when I noticed H getting into a D&M with her one night.  He filled her in on the whole stalker thing and the reports to Crimestoppers, CASA and the company.  She was dutifully horrified (right!!) and H followed up admissions about how he has been a $h!te husband and average human being but now he and I are in a really good place and loving life.  That was pretty apparent anyway over the course of the weekend but it seemed like he needed to confirm it just in case anyone needed to report outcomes to the gossip mongers later.

Might have to end this here because I have to go out, but will maybe finish it off later if I think of anything to add 

[9393roo]

Thank you for continuing to post H and F it helps me to see I’m not alone in some of the new problems and issues that reconnection brings.  I do believe my H has turned a corner into honesty and remorse and beginning to face things, but bumps and hurdles continue to come up.  Trying to get back to slow and steady again.

I too believe we have both been living in denial since BD #2 back in 2018.  I told my H last night we have been living in a state of half a marriage for so long.  I told him half a marriage  does not work for me anymore.

Reconnection is an interesting thing.  So much work to be done from both parties.  So much to figure out.  Mine has been changing daily, sometimes hourly as I continue to work on myself.  Looking forward to a calm and steady marriage, I hope we can get there.

You sound good and boundaried.  I finding this is essential as I go forward.  He is turning over phone/text records to me now and he seems relieved about it.  He too had a problem with drunk texting.  90% of his sexual harassment complaint were from his texts.  I’m not his mother but he seems to need to be held accountable, one addiction of many he is working on breaking.

I think our stories show others that life isn't all hunky dorey when a spouse returns and wants the marriage.  They are broken and we are traumatized.  They can’t help us deal with any of our trauma.  It’s a lonely road back.  The MLCer knows they want to have a life with us but still can’t seem to connect the dots to get there.  It’s a long process, one that I feel I’m just beginning after 5 years. 

Thanks again for sharing.  I will post and update when my life settles down a bit.  Working through some things on my own and figuring out my path forward as I pull myself away from my H’s liminality.  Not a place I would want to be, it seems dark and scary. 

Hugs to you and wishes for calm waters ahead.

Roo

[Curiosity]

I’d like to also thank you for continuing to post about the ups and downs of reconnection. I’m not at that place, but my W is moving back home this weekend after almost 6 months living elsewhere (she’s very much a clinger and wallower so she has been spending large parts of her days here even while sleeping elsewhere, though). Even though she is moving back into the house, she hasn’t expressed any thoughts about coming back to the marriage so I don’t know if she is looking to sneak back in, or if she is just going to continue her MLC as a live-in.  Still... I feel like there is a lesson in every story that is open about the difficulties that arise even after it seems like they are moving closer to the LBS.

You seem to have healthy boundaries and a willingness to seek accountability from him while still giving him some space to work through his crisis. It’s a fine balance to do that at all; to do it while maintaining a healthy, loving detachment is even more challenging but it seems you have found that balance.

[hopeandfaith]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Curiosity and Roo.  It's funny how you don't really see your own strength or boundaries but others can.  In fact, it's the one thing that I can say I haven't done well in the past - boundaries.  I remember getting so frustrated with H's drinking very early on (can't remember if there were hints of ow then - perhaps) and I sent him a heartfelt letter.  That was my style back in the day.  Letters would be well thought out and well written, by H's own admission.  Didn't mean I got diddly squat out of it though.  He's never been good when cornered and I would be eagerly awaiting an agreement/apology response.  I remember reacting to his 'deer in the headlights' look one night following the recent receipt of a letter and just backing down completely on all the things I had asked him - in tears no less.  I signed myself up for a future full of more of the same after that. 

I am choosing to see it as a good sign that this has just come to my attention and realisation.  Like I am outside of that behaviour now.  I feel like I am.  I feel strong enough now to stand firm in knowing when something doesn't sit right with me and not being talked out of it.  I am learning to be ok with other people's discomfort when they have behaved badly and I don't feel the need to make it ok as much.  I haven't been tested a great deal lately so this muscle isn't getting a lot of work but it feels like it is a skill that is locked and loaded.

Thank you for continuing to post H and F it helps me to see I’m not alone in some of the new problems and issues that reconnection brings.  I do believe my H has turned a corner into honesty and remorse and beginning to face things, but bumps and hurdles continue to come up.  Trying to get back to slow and steady again.

From what I've read on your thread, he really seems to have woken the hell up....and the daylight is bright AF.  Really proud of how you are handling it and really rooting for your 'little crab without a shell' H who is bravely stepping forward.

Reconnection is an interesting thing.  So much work to be done from both parties.  So much to figure out.  Mine has been changing daily, sometimes hourly as I continue to work on myself.  Looking forward to a calm and steady marriage, I hope we can get there.

Me too.  Interesting thought came up when you mentioned the working on yourself part.  I actually feel like I have taken a break from that this year.  I remember my IC encouraging me to do that a while ago because I was almost doing it frantically.  I was.  It was my addiction.  When he came back, H filled a void and became my drug of choice again. Taking a break was also a conscious choice though because it put me in the same atmosphere as H - recovering without trying to push forward too much.  I am not sure that H is ever going to find himself in a psychologists office.  He just doesn't process and learn like that.  I have feared that it meant he wasn't doing any work but I can see that's not true.  By just living and not 'searching' I have noticed that insight still lands on me.  I don't need to manhandle it into being.  You know when you have those lightbulb moments on the toilet or in the shower.  I have made space for those.  I do miss some of those practices (yoga and meditation) and am starting to blend the separated H&F personality with the reconnecting H&F one.

He is turning over phone/text records to me now and he seems relieved about it.  He too had a problem with drunk texting.  90% of his sexual harassment complaint were from his texts.  I’m not his mother but he seems to need to be held accountable, one addiction of many he is working on breaking.

I have noticed this too.  I have swung from trying to school my H on the right way to live, to completely taking my hands off his wheel, to now acknowledging that I am in a position of leadership and that I should embrace it.  I don't know if that makes sense.  It's like I used try to control a lot, and then I switched to having no opinion (cos I am sooo detached) and now I have an opinion.  You don't have to like it or agree with it but if you are impacting my life, then it's there.  I am healthier and stronger emotionally than H right now so I choose to lead by example and attach enough to make him accountable.  Like you said, they do need help connecting the dots. 

Even though she is moving back into the house, she hasn’t expressed any thoughts about coming back to the marriage so I don’t know if she is looking to sneak back in, or if she is just going to continue her MLC as a live-in. 

Probably a bit of both if I had to guess.  She might be testing the waters to see if this is what she wants to do.  I am sending strength because this stuff is very difficult when they are home but you seem to be able to understand that this will not be a return to your former R or even the right time to start a new R. Slow and steady wins the race 


I was just thinking about something that happened the other day that kinda highlights H's progress.  We both had a bad nights sleep about a week or so ago.  We were sitting on the lawn and he was telling me all about the various things that had been keeping him awake; how to connect the outside TV antennae, how to cover the TV, how to get into his gun cabinet since his keys were stolen (because we are going deep into the outback on a trip soon and he wants it for security), what he needs to get at the hardware shop etc etc.....A very busy to do list.  He was frustrated about it until I pointed out that his reasons for losing sleep a year ago were a lot darker.  If this is the extent of his problems now, then that is a blessing.  I think he was amused and felt a bit normal - how blissful.

We do have a lot of good things to look forward to in the next couple of months.  I am quietly happy about this because for some reason May has been a really wobbly month for him in the past. It could be because ow's birthday is in that month but its more than that.  Our outback trip is booked for 2 weeks after her birthday and he is super excited about that. It's a trip he did with S in 2018 and it went ok apart from the $h!te he divulged to S about his women that he never should have.  He has been promising to take me there since then but it hasn't happened until now.  It looks like it will be our core family and S's girlfriend and D's boyfriend.  Quite the road trip.

Before that, I am going away on a work trip with H.  I will be with him for 3 nights in his hotel and will be working from there when he is at work during the day.  So basically our normal week but I will be in his world and not in mine.  He is really looking forward to it.  Weirdly, the night he tried to call ow last, he asked me to join him on a trip and said that he didn't care if it was her home town.  He figured I wouldn't want to go there but I said that I would.  There is too much damn mystery in that place and it needs to be unveiled.  I need to leave my energy there too so that he can see me instead of her.  Interesting that he would want to do that given that ow's sister works at the incoming airport and the rest of her family lives there.  It ain't that big a town so news would travel.  He was probably just trying to send a bit of "firetruck you" to ow since she didn't answer his call  I will get to that town eventually.  This trip is to another bigger city because that's just how it worked out with the flights.  It will still be interesting to insert myself into his work world because it's like inserting myself into the other him.  The him that had an MLC or whatever the hell that was.  Maybe memories of me there might be a calming influence going forward if he needs it.

Anyhoo, I will sign off now.  Never can keep it short can I 

[UrsaMajor]

Showing OW who is



And it isn't her.....

[Marchingforward]

I am so thankful that you are posting your reconnection story. I thought we were there this past year but not so much. Mine is all a clinger so it’s good to see how you have navigated all of this.

[KeepItTogether]

Love your update H&F. Always the queen. I was particularly interested in reading about H's contacts with OW. Shows how it truly is an addiction. And that you can see it as such is really great. My H is a lot like yours. Battling so many demons, alcohol and OW among them.

Love the idea that you see OW's town to de-mystify the fantasy. B/c the fantasy is likely more of a nightmare than anything else.

Sounding great. Thanks for posting.

[9393roo]

We are reconnecting peas in a pod H and F.  So many of the same thoughts and feelings. 

I am choosing to see it as a good sign that this has just come to my attention and realisation.  Like I am outside of that behaviour now.  I feel like I am.  I feel strong enough now to stand firm in knowing when something doesn't sit right with me and not being talked out of it.  I am learning to be ok with other people's discomfort when they have behaved badly and I don't feel the need to make it ok as much.  I haven't been tested a great deal lately so this muscle isn't getting a lot of work but it feels like it is a skill that is locked and loaded.

I have been tested a great deal lately    and this skill has suited me well. 


[

I have noticed this too.  I have swung from trying to school my H on the right way to live, to completely taking my hands off his wheel, to now acknowledging that I am in a position of leadership and that I should embrace it.  I don't know if that makes sense.  It's like I used try to control a lot, and then I switched to having no opinion (cos I am sooo detached) and now I have an opinion.  You don't have to like it or agree with it but if you are impacting my life, then it's there.  I am healthier and stronger emotionally than H right now so I choose to lead by example and attach enough to make him accountable.  Like you said, they do need help connecting the dots.

Having an opinion and expressing it with self confidence and settling boundaries I believe are the next super powers for me.  The last few days I've noticed this more and more.  It's like I have my mojo back and can say "Look H, I'm pretty cool and I am worth holding onto.  This immature high school behavior will not work for me anymore. This is what a mature relationship looks like and this is how you get there"  When I stopped attacking he starts to listen.   

From what I've read on your thread, he really seems to have woken the hell up....and the daylight is bright AF.  Really proud of how you are handling it and really rooting for your 'little crab without a shell' H who is bravely stepping forward.

The light is blinding and karma is real.  There is no pretending things didn't happen anymore for my H.  The fantasy bubble has burst.  My little crab without a shell  is making progress.  He still tries to bury himself in the sand, but now I am standing by with a shovel ready to dig him up.  No more hiding, no more lies, he is fully exposed.  He's for sure lost in liminality trying to find himself. 

I do feel like I am in the drivers seat of my life now.  It's powerful.  I told a friend the other day "I finally feel like I have control of the situation" she reminded me that I have no control over the situation, I only have control over my response to the situation.  And self control is a very powerful super power. 

Thanks again for posting, it has helped me see things I was missing about myself.   

[hopeandfaith]

Its been an interesting few days.  I returned from the work trip I went on with H which was lovely overall if not a little bit eventful.  More on that later.

As I lay awake one of the nights, the feeling I was downloading was like H was 98% delighted I was there and 2 % struggling with the merging of his 2 worlds.  I felt almost like I had taken a recovering alcoholic to a bar.  Having a romantic partner in a world that he has valiantly been trying to clean up seemed a little confusing maybe?  It’s not that he has run rampant and kept his hotel rooms filled with female guests in the past but the MLC part of his brain definitely has had the freedom to run free without being watched when he is away from home. 

The whole experience also made me realise how easy it would be to fill the down time with unhealthy pursuits rather than going to the gym and then going for walks and watching hours of Netflix as H does.  He is not a reader or on social media so his time is not wasted doing that like it is for so many. 

On the first day, neither of us had to work so we went into the City for dinner and a few drinks by the river.  We were looking for places to go on H’s phone and as he flicked out of one internet screen, all his previous screens flicked up and I saw the heading of one of his searches was ow’s name.  I saw it, H saw it and I asked him why it was there immediately.  He got a bit defensive and said it had been there for a while and he can’t remember why.  His reaction and seeing her name was like tipping a bucket of ice cold water over me and I shut down – couldn’t help it. 

A few mins later H said “just so you know, there has been no contact between us at all since we last discussed it” I already knew that he hadn’t called or messaged her because I’d seen the phone records a few days earlier (I check them at the end of every month before they drop off the record).  It is completely feasible that it could have been a search he did a long time ago because I know I would have very old screens open on my phone.  His reaction being a bit defensive earlier seemed to point at a more recent search though.  It could have been that he just didn’t want our day ruined by this too.

He went on to elaborate on a conversation that we’d had the week before when he’d rang me on the way home from work in a grumpy mood after having gone through the COVID interrogation that happens every time he comes back into our airport.  He is well and truly over the whole thing and some of the bizarre and non-sensical rules he has to follow.  Anyhoo, he explained how earlier in the day he had been happy and that it has been a long time since he has felt happy like that.  I understood exactly what he meant and was a little surprised by his honesty.  He is very good at being happy when he is at home or around me but when he is on his own with only his thoughts and his world, it must be harder.  We talked about how I had heard what he’d said and wondered if the word ‘happy’ could have been interchanged with ‘peace’ in this instance.  He said that it could – that was accurate.  He said that he felt that way because of the growing distance between him and the situation with ow.  That’s what I thought he had meant when he mentioned it.  I think I even said that to Evermore on text.  It was good to be able to have that confirmed.  That talk thawed the ice.

On the second day, H saw a guy in the hotel that we have both known for years although it might be close to 10 years since I have seen him.  He used to be a pilot with H’s company and has moved onto another airline.  He is also a good friend of the guy that H suspected was behind the stalking.  H tells me that apparently he recently sent a text to H’s friend (previously described here as “friend I hate”) which said “you’re a firetrucking count” (remove the o). FIH thought it might have something to do with H and the suspected stalker but reported it to HR anyway and didn’t reply.  Seemed like a bit of a stretch to me because why wouldn’t he just send that text straight to H.  Not EVERYTHING is to do with H!!

Anyway, the next day, I get an email at my work email address from a person calling themselves Danielle ….for your entertainment, here it is:
“Hi H&F,
Could you please let me know the actual marital status between you and H is? I am getting conflicting stories from him compared to other people at work. My understanding is that you were married long term and have now been separated about 15 months.  Sorry for emailing you, I do not know who else I can get a straight answer from. I was given your name and told you were probably the best one to ask. 
Have a nice day, I apologise for the email out of the blue.
Danielle."

I also found out later that my son's girlfriend had a comment on her Facebook account about H being a serial cheater.  This time from a different but regularly used name.  The first thing I did when I read the email was look at the address.  It was from DanielleSydney83@protonmail.com.  I looked up Proton Mail because I have never heard of it.  It is based in Switzerland and is known for it's difficulty in tracking. I find that the more this person contacts us, the more info they give us about who they are.  I might have mentioned that the stalkers arrogant best friend is an IT guru and I might have mentioned that we actually think he's gone a bit rogue on his friend (C) (the one who actually had a problem with H).  Greg has seen 'C' a few times over the last few months and his impression is that 'C' is just desperate to be a cool kid and be liked and spends hours talking about his exploits with his IT guru friend (who is stupid rich).  He is too much of a puppy to be this evil but probably too much of a puppy to tell his friend to stop.  I obviously asked H if he knows any Danielle's and he said no and then added "because I have been in Sydney so much lately to have spoken to this Danielle, they would have been better of making their email address from here". H hasn't been in Syd since Nov last year. 

Unfortunately H was really upset about this yesterday because I also filled him in on S's girlfriends Facebook post and another one that I hadn't mentioned from about a month ago. A fews beers in and he starts talking aggressively about finding this guy and telling him he knows who he is etc.  I remain staunchly committed to not engaging at all.  I didn't respond to my email because I don't want him/her to think that they have finally hit the jackpot on a way to get to us.  I do understand H's anger and got pretty angry with him myself about losing him to this situation after all we have been through.

A little while later, because I can't stand the emotional gap, I check the phone records and he's tried to contact ow again.  I think she must have blocked him because the calls are about 2 seconds in length.  Gutted.  He had actually called her the previous evening when I had another fight with him over the phone about a car park pass.  I had just arrived home in our state and left H interstate for another 2 nights.  We are both a bit mopey about that and I am on the phone to him as I am trying to get out of the staff car park.  They have removed number plate recognition and H has the back up access card.  I am talking on the speaker to the car park dude who is this snippy sounding guy who is treating me like I am stealing a car and not verifying H's employment like he should.  H can hear all this through my AirPods and starts losing his $h!te.  I am ignoring his instructions because I am trying to get out of the car park ($126 later) and then I pull over after and get stuck into him for yelling in my ear while I am trying to talk to someone.  He was also 3/4 drunk then too  . More emotional gaps. The attempts to call ow happened straight after that.

I was busy for the rest of the evening but H sent a photo video through mid evening with a text "I like this x". The little video is mostly photo's of him and his people - including lots with me.  A few of them were taken when we weren't together and no doubt got sent to ow.  I was pretty triggered but left it.  When I called to say good night, I asked him if he'd been taking a trip down memory lane and he said no, it was something that popped up on his phone.  He said he knew it was a bit "raw" but focused on the fact that we made it through and are all together with lots to look forward to.  He told me that he had smashed out an hour in the gym (and stopped drinking).  He was completely sober by the time I spoke to him.  I woulda bet money on the fact that H would have just kept drinking.  Nice to see some healthy coping skills being used eventually but noting that the visceral auto reaction to call ow was first.  I actually think he would have $h!te himself if she had answered.

So back to last night, when I have just looked at the phone records and am still feeling the gap from our argument over the stalker.  I decide in my brilliance and newly returned non-tolerance for emotional gaps, to react and not respond.  I ring H and spout some cryptic $h!tee about feeling wobbly and worrying that he will become destructive.  He is in a cab on the way to the pub.  He assures me that he is not going anywhere and is at a loss as to how else to comfort me.  He's not over the earlier conversation either and is trying to retreat. I push, he starts putting walls up.  He then says "while we are being honest, I don't like how everything has to be your way".  (Except for the last 4 years buddy!!).

Anyway, I actually said it was good to hear that and I wanted to hear about it any time he felt like that.  His preference is not to mention things because he actually assumes I am right and he's wrong until it all bubbles inside and he reacts with seismic actions instead of words.  So the words are a new thing and will be encouraged.  That part of the conversation could have gone badly though because you can imagine how it felt to hear everything goes my way?  Lordy Lordy Lordy!!  I think he only had 1 beer at the pub he was on his way to before he caught a tram back and was watching TV in his room by 8pm.

I swear I only post here when there is chaos around and I am trying to process.  These things often feel like a kick in the back - pushing us forward.  We actually had quite a few conversations about ow etc while he was away.  Seeing that guy, seeing that search with ow's name and just being away seemed like fertile ground for it.  I asked H what he'd told ow about why we broke up - other than the fact that I had caught him out messaging her.  He said that she never really prodded about that (not surprised) and that he would have deflected with something like "we've been broken for ages".  I actually said "well you weren't really wrong there, I don't think we'd really healed from ow1". I also said that given he has been low-key unhappy for so long, he has done well to not totally firetruck this up.  He certainly doesn't get 5 stars but I did give an encouragement award 

H said again that he wants me to go on a trip to 'W'.  This is the other place he goes to a fair bit normally; ow's sister works at the airport and a lot of her family live there.  He understands the statement that would make but is not doing it to make the statement. He said he wants memories of me there and wants the mystery of the place removed for me.  Given the rollercoaster ride of the last week, I am thinking it would be wise to hold off on that for a bit!!

He returns today for the weekend and then goes away again next week to 'W' for the first time since Nov.  We are both aware of it and the timing might be a little off but we both also understand that life goes on and things must be faced.  I really need to continue to step away from the processor.  If I step in too early, I catch him mid firetruck-up and miss the part where he cleans it up by himself.  That is definitely happening more and more.  You definitely can get lulled into a false sense of security though when the relationship is mostly normal and lovely.  There is much work yet to be done by both of us.

[hopeandfaith]

Update time. 

H’s recent roster has rostered him to ow’s town for the first time in 5 months.  Damn!  I was so enjoying the lack of triggers for both of us.  He has 2 nights there with a fair bit of free time around his work commitments.  It is also May, and May has been the month of downward spirals for him for the last 3 years – big ones.  May 10 is also a BD date from years ago.  Most of the time that can pass by without notice, except when it is around Mother’s Day, which was the day in question. May is also ow’s birthday month.

I was bracing myself for having to pull up my big girl pants but now I won’t have to because H suggested that I go with him.  I will be staying at the company hotel with him and updating his memory bank to include the right woman.  That hotel was almost her 2nd home for a while when H was in her town all the time because he would be booked in there and it was a lot closer to work for both of them than her place. 

I was delighted at the suggestion. H knows the town is a trigger but didn’t really understand the significance of the date.  Without rubbing his nose in it, I told him that it was a good time to “tip things up the right way”. I am ready to go to that hotel and he really wants me there too.  That conversation led to another conversation in which H said he wanted to put his ring back on.  He said that he has been thinking about it a lot lately although he still doesn’t feel like he deserves to wear it.  We had S18’s family party the next day so H said he wouldn’t put it on then because he didn’t want to distract anything away from S and he felt it would be noticed.

The next night, he asked if he could put it on.  I told him that it was totally up to him but I would love it if he did.  He burst into tears.  He told me that he respected the fact that I hadn’t put any pressure on him and told me that he was in a really good place and was so excited for our future. 

My ring has been on since Oct 31 last year.  It was the day of our D21’s 21st birthday party.  I chose that day because a) I was ready, b) I wanted to make a statement to H about my commitment, c) I wanted to make a statement to the world about my commitment to H, d) I deserve to wear them and finally e) because I am sick of wearing no hand jewellery.  Now my rings are on and my nails are done and its all very pretty 😊

When I had discussed it with H then, he had told me that he wasn’t ready to wear his.  He didn’t feel as though he deserved to.  The $h!te hit the fan shortly after that and he raised it again in mid Dec when everything was still very raw with ow.  I told him then that it was a very personal choice and I didn’t want him putting it on without meaning it – or just to appease me.

So May is shaping up differently this year I hope.  Definitely a good start.  I still think H is dealing with the addiction to ow and having me there when he returns after so long probably calms his nerves too.  I notice that he is still triggered by any type of rejection or perception that he is being dismissed.  I still think he is like a new born Giraffe so will proceed with caution.  I think he feels safer for having put his ring on.  I just hope that is not a false sense of security for him.  He did say that it “closed a loop” and I must say that it feels like it has taken us up a notch and put a stronger wall around our bubble.  Only time will tell I suppose

[UrsaMajor]

Progress!



Still forward moving progress...

I am happy for you (both!)

[hopeandfaith]

  Thanks Ursa!

[CanLetGo]

This is a fabulous update H&F! I was reading it walking out of work, had the biggest smile on my face!

[9393roo]

H and F great update.  Thanks for posting.

I am learning too (after 5 long years) that just letting things be and letting my H progress at his own speed is the best way to go. 

I’m glad the triggers are fading and your H is waking up more and more each day.  I’m seeing the same thing around here!

Ursa, these may be the two best representations of reconnection I’ve seen!

Forward,
Roo

[Curiosity]

Great update! Honestly, baby steps are far easier to believe in than a dramatic shift would be.

[Evermore]

So happy for you H&F!! Can’t wait to see those pretty nails in person when I get back from galavanting in the outback. You can tell me all about it over a glass of bubbles. Xx

[hopeandfaith]

Thanks for following along CanLetGo, Evermore, Roo and Curiosity

Letting things be has not come naturally for me.  Every now and then, I will see the wheels fall off his wagon and he often still turns to alcohol to numb that pain or slowwwwwly process whatever is going on.  That has been a massive trigger in the past for me and my urge to step closer and let him know that I can sense his struggle is ever present. 

If I am honest, the desire to let him know is less about supporting him and more about letting him know I am watching him.  Stepping back instead has been one of the harder habits I have had to break but doing so has paid off immensely.  I am not sure if he knows I know when his wheels fall off (I suspect he does) or if he thinks it's gone unnoticed.  Either way, he gets the space and the Grace he needs to get better.

[KeepItTogether]

If I am honest, the desire to let him know is less about supporting him and more about letting him know I am watching him.  Stepping back instead has been one of the harder habits I have had to break but doing so has paid off immensely. 

This is my biggest struggle as well. And I must say I am terrible at it. Good to see that practice makes perfect!

[9393roo]

If I am honest, the desire to let him know is less about supporting him and more about letting him know I am watching him.  Stepping back instead has been one of the harder habits I have had to break but doing so has paid off immensely.  I am not sure if he knows I know when his wheels fall off (I suspect he does) or if he thinks it's gone unnoticed.  Either way, he gets the space and the Grace he needs to get better.

H and F this is a huge realization.  You putting it into words is matches exactly how I’ve been feeling.  My H too has some small downsides and I now keep silent.  I’m learning that my silence speaks louder than words.  He eventually figures it out and pulls himself out of situations.  Alcohol is also a mask for him.  He even says this.  Not nearly as much as it used to be but it is still there. 

Maybe they are growing up?  Maybe this is the part they skipped in childhood?  At least we are both calm now.  As my H said yesterday “it feels good to talk to you peacefully”.  Maybe we both are growing up🙂

[hopeandfaith]

Hopefully practice makes perfect KIT!!  I will keep practicing and let you know if I ever get near perfect.  I think my post from early April was a good example of how I slip up every now and then and what happens when I do.  I have to keep reminding myself that I can't really go to him when I am feeling needy.  Except if there is something to clear up. That's not really needy though.  It comes from a less whiny place!

For example, recently I was trying to reduce my digital footprint a bit and wondered if I could block ow on my LinkedIn account.  I had a couple of anonymous views and I thought it might be her - not that it really concerns me.  Anyway, the instructions told me to go onto the person's page and block them from there.  I didn't want to do that in case it left my footprint on her page so I went on the H's page to see how it might look if I were to do it.  Since I am a tech-tard, I accidentally sent him a request to connect.  I kinda thought we were already connected and then saw that he only had 1 connection and it wasn't me.  This was a trigger because H had told me about 12 moths ago that he had used Linkedin to contact her when she had blocked him on the phone.

So, when H got home, I told him what I had been doing and that I had noticed he only had 1 connection.  I asked who it was.  It turned out to be another male friend who had asked to connect with H months earlier and he had accepted because he didn't want to be rude.  He went to his phone and opened it all up to verify this in front of me.  Otherwise, he doesn't use Linkedin and decided to delete it off his phone there and then (the app anyway)  I am not sure that he knows that his account is still open because he is a bit of a tech-tard too. 

What seemed important to me was his response to the question.  He was almost tripping over himself to help me out.....like "oooh, oooh,  I know the answer to this one  "  Totally different vibe from when he has had something to hide in the past. 

Roo, maybe we are growing up too.  Peaceful conversations are definitely something to be proud of.

That trip that I have planned this weekend might be buggered by COVID    H has already decided that if I am not going, he is not going.  He has an operational spin he can put on it so I still might not need to put my big girl pants on.  Fingers crossed !!

[hopeandfaith]

 Time for an update because there are a few things I wanted to share.  The problem is that when I leave it so long, it gets really long.  I will try and keep it a little bit brief.

Going back to May, that trip I had planned over Mothers Day was buggered by COVID and H didn’t end up going either.  It was probably a good thing because our little dog ended up needing surgery so I would have left him in the care of the kids with a cone on his head and stitches that he could scratch with his paws too.  They could have handled it but my little doggie is also a bit anxious and gets a bit sad when I go away.  Next time!!

I am not sure if I mentioned that one of the reasons that May could be a bit triggering is because it is ow’s birthday.  It also happens to be the same day as SIL’s birthday so it will likely never be forgotten.  This year it was SIL’s 50th and she planned a weekend at the river.  The river itself is a bit of a trigger for me.  Add alcohol and ow’s birthday and I found myself getting a bit anxious in the lead up, losing sleep and crafting conversations with H in my head about the “elephant in the room” etc etc.  I ended up deciding that any conversation was really just a way for me to control the situation and let him know I was watching again.  I decided to let it go and deal with any consequences rather than try and prevent them.

I was pleased I did because H was aware of the elephant and chose to leave his phone in our camper all weekend.  We didn’t discuss it at the time and I wondered if it was intentional.  When we got back, I raised it and he told me that he had done that on purpose so that I wouldn’t worry.  I can’t tell you how peaceful it was.  He was also very loving and attentive and I felt no pull from him in any other direction.

Another conversation of note occurred after H decided to buy himself a ring for his right ring finger.  A bit odd since he is really not a blingy person but he said something about it providing balance.  Tell me more.  I am not sure that we have really finished with this conversation so I am not sure I am going to make a lot of sense in relaying it so far but at the time, I could only probe so far. 

H said that it would balance out the wedding ring and then started talking about how when we were separated, his life was out of balance.  I asked him how that looked and he struggled to answer but said that every time he walked out the front door, it felt really wrong.  He described being pulled and forced out and I asked him if the forced part was because I asked him to leave.  He said no that wasn't it so there was another force in play.  I said that I had wondered what would have happened if I hadn't asked him to go but said that I strongly felt that it would have crucified us because I wouldn't have been able to watch what was going to inevitably happen.  ow was a close work colleague of his and he wouldn't have been able to easily manage having no contact with her.  We talked a bit earlier in this conversation about how determined women can be when they want something and I acknowledged the few times that I genuinely saw him try to fend her off.  I also said that if he hadn't had any doubts about us, curiosity about her or something going on with him, he would have been able to do it convincingly.  A perplexed look came over his face and it seemed like he hadn't felt a choice in there at the time. He also said that he is finally starting to feel some solid ground beneath him and some sense of deserving where he is now.  He also confessed to being worried that something would mess it up but I said that I thought that was pretty natural.

A couple of weeks ago, there was another complaint to CASA about H drinking at the company hotel in ow's town and then going flying.  Similar allegations about depression and alcoholism were included in the letter so CASA contacted H to launch another investigation with CDT blood tests and the like.  This time they found a less cooperative H who asked them to explain their lack of investigation into claims that had been so obviously false (given the almost 12 months of contact via various sources).  It really helped his case that he hasn't actually been to ow's town in 6 months and the letter must have either given some dates or a timeframe.  A few confirmation emails from the company followed and the investigation was closed with a promise by CASA to consider insisting on some identification by any future complainants. 

Here's where it gets interesting.  H was supposed to be in that town around that time...with me.  One of his colleagues told him a week later that she had heard him being paged in the terminal for the flight that they had forgotten to cancel him off. H has since been back to the company to ask who might have access to his calendar or may have been transiting through the terminal at that time. On the same day that the investigation was resolved (which was 2 days after it started) H got the first direct email to him from the stalker fool.  It was made to look like a company newsletter which talked about the recent marriage of a ghost of girlfriend past and then went on to tell him that he should leave because "we" (company staffers) all hate you.  But they surmised that an alcoholic 50 year would have no where to go.  They asked if we all hated him and told him to go firetruck himself.

Well, well, well, haven't we finally spat out our lollipop? It kinda feels like a last gasp.  It feels like they knew that the investigation went no where but it literally all got sorted on the same day so it's either coincidental or narrows the field even more?  H forwarded that to HR too and pointed out that this person is indicating that they work for the company and that should be cause for concern.  That hasn't progressed any further to my knowledge and we have been on 2 weeks leave since but I am sure H will follow it up.

H still thinks it is related to a guy from 2014 or his IT whizz weird friend.  Everyone else thinks its female.  D21 was checked into her flight in ow's hometown by her sister the other day.  She made the connection towards the end of the process and didn't report any vibe in particular.  What I didn't realise though, was that she works for the company - not the airport as I had suspected.  It's got me wondering if she has access to more info than we realise.  I have always wondered if it might be her because apparently she is mentally unwell.  She could also know about an incident between H and the afore mentioned ghost of girlfriend past that left ow standing on a street corner late a night waiting for a pretend boyfriend who was out getting drunk with GOGP.  All very sordid really.  I hope it continues to die. 

I did tell H that I was very proud of the way he had handled it all.  That he had never retaliated despite massive provocation.  In truth, it was a bit of positive reinforcement in the hopes it would promote more of the same.  It did - he seemed to need to hear that.  Maybe he has even made things easier for other people in the future who have false claims made against them.  He has since gotten himself really drunk and almost messaged the guy on Linkedin.  Fortunately, he didn't...more gold stars  Geez I swear I would have drowned him if we'd got this far and THEN engaged.

Our trip away was super.  We planned a night in a very remote outback town that had been a stop on the outback adventure that I met H on. I was on a 'famil' and he was our pilot.  At the time, it was all very professional but the flirtation had low-key started.  It was really fun to be back there and reminisce almost 26 years later.  It was about 400km of dirt road to get there and we joked about the "rough ride" analogy.  He thanked me for hanging on.

And finally, it with great relief that H's shenanigans have not soured the well for D21 who is currently going through an extensive and rigorous process to become a cadet with the airline.  She had a phone interview, followed by a WOMBAT test (2.5 computer test that throws the world at you), followed by a panel interview and a simulator test, followed by an interview with the Management Committee and then hopefully she will progress to the last stage which is a "Motivation Letter" to the Singaporean owners.  In that, she will basically promise to sell a kidney  . 

Bless her heart, she has been working so hard and my house has never heard more plane speak and foreign words before.  H and I were away for a part of it so she has really done it on her own.  It's a type of process that you can't be helped through because it's so rigorous.  Her ground school results as a Flight Attendant still stand as the best ever I think and her reputation since then has only flourished.  Everyone just loves working with her and her boss is married to the guy who did the MC interview so hopefully that helps.  Fingers crossed everyone!

On a side note, that will put her living in ow's hometown for about 45 weeks and you can bet your bottom dollar that I will be there as much as I can.  Running into ow's family would almost be inevitable since it's a fairly small town and I will also probably always be with H, so it's not like I won't know. I think I am prepared for that - it doesn't cause me stress now.

[UrsaMajor]

What a ride!

[hopeandfaith]

Just a bit more journaling so that I can remember the journey.

H and I had another R chat last week.  The setting was super relaxed because we were just sitting around a camp fire together at the family block which is the first time we have done this by ourselves but not the first time H has done it.  On previous occasions, he was up there with S18 and his friends and would have been connected to ow by text.

We were talking about his ex housemates and H said something about having lived with them for 18 months.  I actually didn't notice it at first but a little later said, it was closer to 3 years.  He couldn't believe that until we agreed on the leave and return dates.  He definitely lost time there - kinda shocked him.

We covered a few topics and H said that he is working hard to make me feel comfortable.  I asked him what that looked like for him although I can see all the little ways on a daily basis that he does this - transparency probably being the biggest one.  He said that he saw me triggered a few days earlier when he learned that his next roster will have him in ow's current town and hometown quite a bit.  He said his goal is to help me get to a point where I am not.  He wants me to visit both places so that the mystery is removed and so that we both know my print is there.  At the moment, she is "there" and we both know that.  He asked me if I was comfortable/believed that there is no contact between them and I said yes.  He said he still thinks about her and ow 1 occasionally and also still thinks about his first long time girlfriend.  He expects that I also think about the guy I started to date while we were apart too.  It's true I do.  Although a totally different situation, these other people are woven into the fabric of our lives now.  I did say to H that I am not prepared to make space for any more fond feelings/memories of people that should have never existed in our lives.  I said that I still struggled with the fact that a stranger was able to inflict such pain on me and he still views her as a nice person.  As an aside, he did mention that she used to get enraged when he was up at the river with me, claiming to be out of range but wasn't.  She told him it was disrespectful.  He agreed that it definitely was but also logged that she had no problem being intensely disrespectful of me.

My impression of his non-addicted thinking when it comes to her is that she was a nice person that got caught up with a confused person and had no chance because quite simply, she wasn't me. I think he can agree that she got herself caught up because she pushed so hard.  I think his guilt moves up and down a spectrum when it comes to her.

I asked him how his soul is.  He said "wow, big question". I said "well, you have had a hell of a year processing the end of that relationship, under attack from a stalker who put your career and family at risk and keeping very close tabs on how I am doing and working to build trust between us".  He said that he was getting better all the time and that all the plates he had been spinning are now almost back in the drawer.  I liked that analogy. It fits with what I have observed.

We shared a few songs that had been meaningful to us over the time.  That is always interesting.  It seriously turned the tear tap on for me and it was very healing to be held while I cried.  On the whole H is super happy and feeling very much in love with me.  From my vantage point, I can see both feet firmly planted at home and all attention on me - nothing over my shoulder is distracting him.

We talked about the practicalities of me going to ow's hometown and no doubt running into ow's sister.  Doesn't concern me and it doesn't concern him.  He has thought about possible conversations with her and hopes that there is no mention of ow.  To do so, he thinks would indicate a tie that he doesn't think should be there now.  He is no concern of hers and she is no concern of his.  He has promised that if any contact is sparked by being there (wearing his ring) he will let me know.  I said "Please do. That will show me how we are a team and that you are not scared of telling me in case you upset me".  We shall see.  It will be his call at the end of the day.  I told him I had thought about running into ow's family and he said he doubted if they would even remember what he looked like.  He said he barely saw them.  That is either naivety on his part or just a fact.

We talked about our perceptions along the way.  I told him that I had wondered what he hadn't admitted to himself was a problem between us - which resulted in him being in another woman's bed.  I wish I could remember his wording but he said that it wasn't us, it was him and some level of curiosity or holy grail seeking.  He said that he had learnt the hard way that everything that matters is here and he's not just here because family matters.  He is here because of me.  I remembered that he talked of this holy grail years ago and also described being lost.  Those feelings are gone now for him.  He now know's things, he can't un-know.

He also said that I never fought for him (in words). I never said the words, "I love you, come home, I want to work this out".  I totally wanted to say that but predicted with a fair bit of certainty that it would have been a complete $h!te show if I had.  Either he would've said " I am sorry, it's too broken and I have moved on" or he would have come back before he was ready and then it would have blown up again.  Interestingly, he was WELL aware of the ways I fought for him in my actions.  He knew I loved him and was leaving him alone to do what he wanted to do.  He was grateful for that but I could also see the little boy in there who really wished I had come along, put a stop to it and curbed the damage he was causing and now has to live with.  On the subject of little people, H keeps saying that he can really see my inner little girl and he really wants to make her feel safe.  I said "well if you can see her, there must be a degree of safety that I already feel or else you would be getting the sassy teenager or nothing at all (wise elder)"

At the end of the day, I can't go back and do anything differently, nor do I want to.  I think we are both coming to a place of more peaceful acceptance of what we have come through and we also acknowledge that it is nice to be in a place where, 23 years into our marriage, we know that we are here very deliberately - not out of habit.

[CanLetGo]

Awesome post H&F, really makes sense of the MLC journey, so glad that you stuck it out and have come the other side and can reap the rewards. It has taken incredible strength from you, and H too.

[UrsaMajor]

One of the lucky ones who actually got to see the Mid-Lifers pull their head out... And who haven't been so badly burned that they are willing to give their Mid-Lifer a chance to redeem themselves.

I am VERY impressed! That takes a massive amount of intestinal fortitude which you obviously have

[9393roo]

Hope, I see so much of the same things from my H.  Starting to talk about the R now in a calm and matter of fact tone.  He has forgotten so much, I guess in a way I am starting to forget now too. 

[At the end of the day, I can't go back and do anything differently, nor do I want to.  I think we are both coming to a place of more peaceful acceptance of what we have come through and we also acknowledge that it is nice to be in a place where, 23 years into our marriage, we know that we are here very deliberately - not out of habit./quote]

This is huge.  I feel the same way.  We both have said we are making the choice to stay together.  We both are showing respect for this choice. Our relationship is different for sure.  We both have changed/ are changing and figuring out what’s going to work going forward.  I’m happy that you are both finding acceptance and peace.  It’s the best thing we can all hope for in the end.

Roo

[Curiosity]

Great post, h&f. Thanks for sharing your experience. It highlights for me a lot of what real reconnection is, as someone whose spouse moved back home but is really not at a place of actively reconnecting. I really like your observation that you must feel some degree of safety if he is able to see the small child in you - and for that matter, his being observant enough to see that part of you. Watching my W reconnect with our home and pets, seeing her get invested in planning trips with my family and even talking about vacations with me, just the two of us… without the knowledge and experiences shared here, it would be really easy to fall into a place of developing expectations. But posts like yours are an excellent reminder of the difference between “just came home, still broken, maybe healing” and the true, mutual attachment that can be rebuilt when the healing has really taken hold.

I’m so impressed with the strength and grace and self-awareness that you have shown and continue to show. Thank you for sharing your story.

[hopeandfaith]

Thanks for your kind words CanLetGo, UM, Roo and Curiosity.

I am VERY impressed! That takes a massive amount of intestinal fortitude which you obviously have

I am one of the lucky ones though Ursa.  I didn't face any of the financial shenanigans and no monstering really.  I chose not to look most of the time so I don't have as much to 'unsee' or 'unhear' as others might.  The passage of time sure does dull the memories too, as Roo said.

I used to find it hard to walk past his room at his roomies house.  Some sort of private space that I wasn't a part of.  That seemed to really ram our separation  home to me.  Now...I sleep on a mattress that I KNOW has seen action with a woman other than myself.  It wasn't our mattress to begin with.  He bought it second hand when he left.  It just happens to have once been a super expensive mattress that is absolutely great for my back.  I have gone through so many mattresses in my time and when I sat on his, I suspected it might be just right.  How ironic that I used to call ow1 baldilocks (she lost some hair outta guilt  ) I may have saged it just in case there is something to that hippy logic and then decided that it suited me to get the hell over that.  That's the thinking that helps me claim back every place that ever had a paw print on it that it shouldn't have.  Some may call that marking my territory. If the shoe fits??

Some fab news just in; D21 got through the cadet application process and will now be going to flight school at the beginning of August.  First little birdy to leave the nest  My excitement for her is now giving way to tearful private drives to work. 

She has just had the best week at work.  She was rostered on for a charter that was taking all the music artists to a festival in the middle of Australia.  She actually got the call about her acceptance during a brief fuel stop and her passengers were all getting back on the plane as she finished up the call.  Some of Australia's music icons became the first to know of her success and promised to buy her a beer after their show later that night.  They stuck to their word and thanks to their return flight also being rostered with D21 today, have become new friends.  Got lots of snapchats from her today - absolutely glowing.

[UrsaMajor]

Congratulations to D21!

[CanLetGo]

Amazing news for your D, and your family H&F, there is light at the end of the tunnel for your lot!

[Evermore]

That’s such great news H&F. So happy for your D. Looking forward to our catch up next week where you can tell us all about it! You’re one tough cookie. Xx

[hopeandfaith]

Thought I might pop back with an update.  Seems the motivation might be H's return to the town's that his relationship with ow took place and where her family live.  Also where she lives currently...I guess?

H hasn't been there in around 11 months which is when she had given him an ultimatum to move there.  He dragged that out to that absolute last moment and was supposed to leave that town (S) to come home and pack everything up before going back in the first week of December.  Some very tricky memories and triggers for him when he returns.  Time for reflection for me.  We talked about it briefly yesterday.  I asked him how he felt about going back.  He said he felt fine, he probably expected some "thoughts" but wasn't worried about it.

Just prior to that, we had been sitting enjoying the sunshine in the garden and he said "I am so happy H&F".  I told him that I was very glad to hear it and had wanted to hear that for a very long time.  I remember a conversation we had in March where he'd said he was starting to feel happy....like it was breaking through the cloud.  Like the sun, he is now sitting in its full glow.  He is extremely happy with our relationship and excited about the fun things we have planned in the future.  He's also just so happy that nothing needs to be happening for him to be happy. 

We have just finished a second lot of renovating.  Some of which was forced because of a leak in the shower.  Most of our renovation was done in quarantine because he was a close contact of a confirmed case (Australia is next level with it's management of this $h!te).  We WERE just about to start 2 weeks of holidays so they got cancelled.  Because I really needed a break from work, I chose to take the week and help H instead of switching to 'work from home' mode.

Prior to all of this starting, I would have described him as unsettled and grumpy so I was a bit nervous about how the first lot of renovating would go because it was a LOT of work for him.  It seemed to put him back on course in some way.  Provide an opportunity for him to be distracted from COVID news feeds and do something useful with his hands.  We work well together when renovating too, so it's quite a bonding experience.

About a month or two back, I was triggered heavily and I have now come to the conclusion that my gut is not always right.  Perhaps a little over active?  It was something stupid that set it off.  Looking over H's shoulder while he was looking to send a photo to someone, I thought I saw a name that could have been ow's in recent messages.  Firstly, she definitely wouldn't be there under her name and secondly, there was no weird behaviour that had me jumpy in the first place.  I said nothing to H but I just couldn't let it go.  I then thought I saw his phone light up late at night with a message.  I got up and took his phone to the bathroom where I had a fairly forensic look through it.  I saw that name that I thought was ow's and it was similar but different.  Because I know her number, I put it in the phone and no one came up matching it.  I put the first 3 letters of her name in the search bar of his phone and found a message from early 2020 where a friend in her town had invited H to the bar and told him to bring her.  Nothing else.  Still not satisfied, I checked the phone logs.  Still nothing.  Don't know what that was all about but I didn't particularly enjoy that physical trip down memory lane with all the joys of shaking and almost diarrohea.  Been such a long time since I night stalked his phone and even then, I might have done it twice in total.

I must say that I feel pretty peaceful most of the time.  It takes a proper trigger to take me back.  I was thinking about how I don't feel as grateful these days that we are where we are and I think it's because it feels pretty normal.  It means I am forgetting how it felt to live in pain.  That's a good thing.  I was telling H about this the other night and then I stumble across a FB pic of one of the woman he dated while we were separated.  I really have nothing against her other than he never should have been 'free' to date her in the first place and because I think she still manages her feelings for H based on the way she treats D21 when she worked with her.  She is a very attractive young woman who had no business dating a man of H's age and reputation at the time so I also gauged a bit about what sort of person she was from that.

It was a pic a friend of ours had posted in a COVID rant about how he could stand next to his (very awkward looking) colleague to get breakfast but couldn't sit with her.  I showed the rant to H who is not on FB and asked who the colleague was in passing.  A little bit hard to see and he said he didn't know so I zoomed in.  It then occurred to me that it could be her and I asked him.  He then said "yeah I think so".  That ruined my mood pretty dang quickly.  I had also seen another photo of her on FB earlier in the week as a friend suggestion.  I hadn't blocked her because she would probably read into that and I didn't want to even go there.  I generally don't look at the friends suggestions because up until then, I wouldn't have known her if I passed her on the street.  I got pissed off and chucked my phone on the grass.  It landed in dog $h!te  . Really??  H wasn't in our state at the time so I didn't bother letting him know about that when he phoned me seconds later.  Why bother?  The next time was different because he was there and could provide appropriate cuddles.  He apologised again. I had a few tears.  Just sucks that the after shocks can happen and we both have to go through them.  Never thought about that at the time did he? 

He really hates hurting me now and does an excellent job of helping me feel loved, beautiful and his number one priority.  He often talks about how much love he feels for me when he wakes in the morning and watches me sleep.  He also talks of how my laugh just makes him so happy.  He really noticed how much I laugh when I started working from home and shortly thereafter nicknamed me 'Little Miss Laughs a lot".  Those are the sorts of things that makes a girl feel seen and appreciated for just being herself.

The rest of the fam are doing quite well.  D21 is about to turn 22 and is waiting for a start date for her cadetship as this was postponed by the 'Rona.  D19 has started a home based beauty business which is building slowly.  Bit of a traumatic end to her employment at the last salon she worked at but it was the catalyst for something that plays to her strengths.  Her boyfriend is such a good guy that it's easy for us to all see them getting married even though they have been together less than a year.  She heard a song that she wants to play for her first dance with her dad the other day.  It's called "Just like you" I think and talks about how she's found someone who treats her the same as her dad.  Just goes to show what can be overcome.  Blows my mind really.  H doesn't know about the song but. IT. WILL. LEVEL. HIM. when he hears it. S18 is building an online entrepreneurial business and trying to earn some dollars delivering things on the side.  I have no doubt he is destined for big things.  He just thinks differently and always has.

Anyhoo, I must go eat and then settle in for a Netflix binge of something 

[9393roo]

Thanks for updating H and F.  Its good to see you moving along slowly and peacefully.  It's great getting to a place where you don't always feel the other shoe is going to drop any moment. 

About a month or two back, I was triggered heavily and I have now come to the conclusion that my gut is not always right.  Perhaps a little over active?

I completely get this.  It is nice to finally be open and honest with my H when these things hit.   Triggers are becoming fewer these days but the lingering ones can sneak up on you. 

Wishing you the best as you move ahead. 

[hopeandfaith]

Hi all, I thought I would come back and post an update.  I still follow along and love that I still learn so much from reading about other people's light bulb moments.  I am prompted to pull up my socks a little as well because I have become pretty lazy in this regard these days.  We'll call it resting shall we 

Life is pretty dang good for me these days.  The difficult memories continue to fade and the triggers lessen to the point that they are really infrequent.  Life is normal and I am just so grateful.  My focus is on a new career that I feel has come now that I have the mental space for it. I now have a job with an airline too - not the same one that H and D work for  . D20 is also going for a very similar role with H's airline tomorrow and if she gets it, it would mean that we literally work side by side at the airport.  That idea gives us both a thrill.

I never would have thought that I would end up here 12 months ago because the airline industry has had quite a hit during COVID.  Add that to the fact that;
1) It's shift work (4am starts and late finishes)
2) I no longer get weekends off
3) There is a fairly significant pay decrease to what I was on before
4) It's further from home and
5) It's in aviation (moving from a stable Government job I have had for 20 years)

It actually looks like a really bad idea on paper, but it has never felt more right.  I wasn't sure I would even get the job and went through the process for "$h!tes and giggles".  I ended up getting quite invested and then ended up getting the job so I am absolutely delighted.  H has been super supportive and loves the idea that we might be able to do lunch together at the airport.  He is also fairly keen to see me in my new uniform  . The staff travel and other benefits are pretty awesome so it means that I will be able to travel to see D22 fairly often while she is doing her Cadet training - which incidentally started on the same day as my Ground School.  I have had a bout of COVID though so my training has been interrupted.  I resume work tomorrow and I am really excited.  If I had to go back to my old job now, I think I would vomit.  I don't think I ever admitted to myself how much it was killing me but my reaction to the idea of going backwards now is pretty telling.

The other thing I wanted to update was about SIL.  If you have followed my story, you will know that I have developed a bit of a love/hate relationship with her.  She is an 'ow' archetype (I have just decided there is such a thing) and I have really struggled to manage that.  I think she has been going through her own MLC for almost 10 years now and it has mostly been hidden from the rest of the family until recently.  Waaaay too long of a story to tell but it's not uncommon for H or MIL and FIL to walk away from an interaction with her shaking their heads, saying "she just lost her $h!te???" and being unable to recount or make sense of what was actually said - extreme gas lighting.

It has meant that a few secrets I was hiding for her have come to light.  Partly because I was asked questions directly and also because I don't think protecting her from her crap has done her any favours.  It was quite a relief for me because I have felt that SIL turns on me fairly easily and having this all come out has provided me some defence if it happens again.  I don't know, it just feels fair and things don't often feel fair with people like this.  I have been a fairly quiet observer as far as she is concerned but myself and our kids have been coaching H and FIL & SIL a little on stepping away in order get some clarity.  She's probably always been manipulative but they are quite well trained by her and can't see it.  She blames them for EVERYTHING now i.e not being there for her during her divorces.  My take on that would be that their involvement was too much..to the point of being a little toxic and certainly not helpful to SIL's marriage.  One nice thing that happened was that MIL said that she was probably a little harsh on ex-BIL.  He will probably never know that but I know how much he suffered and how much she brain washed them about him so that felt like a bit of justice too.

H and I are still travelling along very nicely.  He spoke to me about getting an eternity ring at Christmas time and has already picked out what songs he would like to play if we ever renewed our vows.  Our last little bout of isolation together was super peaceful and contented.  He just seems more stable as time passes.  He drank way too much over Christmas but is also toying with the idea of being a teetotaller.  I could actually see him doing this.  Definitely a seed he has planted within himself that I am staying completely quiet on - other than saying it would make me very happy to see him showing himself that much self-care.  His mum gave up alcohol for almost 20 years and is now drinking again but only very occasionally.  I like that she has paved that path for him.

Everyone else in the family is ticking along very nicely.  D20, in particular, is very happy.  Stable relationship and an exciting new job possibility.  D22 is grinding hard at her cadetship.  Her leaving the nest was pretty hard.  Intellectually, I couldn't have been happier, but emotionally, my heart just broke for a few days.  The other 2 kids were  because they were there for all the worst H $h!te but NEVER saw me that sad.  It is definitely an easier type of emotion to show though...more socially acceptable??  I was brave for D22 when she drove away though. She had a 9 hr drive ahead of her and I didn't want her burdened with my sadness.  I only fessed up to her last night on the phone about how much of a sook I had been  .  S18 is still finding his way and is focused on online entrepreneurship while working to make ends meet.

Signing off and wishing everyone on this forum some 'normal' - whatever that is for you x

[UrsaMajor]

Hi H&F,

Nice to read your update!  Glad that things are moving along as well as they can be in this situation!

Congrats on the new job! Sounds like it will be more enjoyable than the old one and, we spend WAY too much time at work to be unhappy with what we are doing....

[FaithWalker]

Great update H&F.  Congrats on the new job!

[hopeandfaith]

Thought I would post another little update as I have something minor to report.  I think I have mentioned that D22 has moved to ow's home town for her cadetship.  I have never been there before so it's always been her place, if you know what I mean.  Anyway, a trip there was inevitable so about 5 weeks after D22 had left, I asked H if we could go for a visit.  He used to be there for work all the time when he was with ow but then during COVID, he went a solid 12 months without going.  I was really grateful for that because it just seemed to let things settle.  ow's sister works at the airport and as it is a regional centre, it's hard to avoid her if she is on shift when H arrives or departs.  I really didn't want any info being shared with ow about his movements.

H and I both knew that we were likely to run into her on this trip.  I think he was a bit nervous about the reception he would get from her given that he hurt her sister very badly and I have never discounted the fact that she could be behind the anonymous reports to CASA and the police about H's supposed suicidal thoughts, excessive drinking and sexual harassment.

The week leading up to our trip, H was actually called to work there anyway.  This was the second time in 2 weeks.  During the first trip, he actually ran into ow's sister while he was out on a walk.  He reported that it was pleasant, friendly and they both veered away from talking about ow or me.  They just talked about D22 being in town now and bid farewell.  I am glad H told me about the contact but was a little bit suspicious that the "pleasant and friendly" vibe he experienced was more to do with him needing to feel like he hasn't left a trail of damage.  I have had this happen before where he thinks someone is supportive of him/us and then I have met her and got a VERY different vibe.  I was therefore interested to see what sort of vibe I would get.

He could have stayed on in town at the end of the 2nd trip and waited for me to join him, but he knew I had wanted to arrive on my first trip with him.  So, he took 2 flights to come home, pick me up and then take 2 flights back - all in one day.  On the way back, he got a call from HR.  It has been about 9 months since the last instalment from this weird stalker so we thought it had all died off.  Not so much.  This time, they had emailed media outlets to report the H was sexually harassing staff.  They named him and cc'd the company into the email.  The company replied and said that without any further info, they would not be investigating it any further.  Apparently this person spat the dummy and told them to firetruck off.  They still can't track the email as it is based/routed through Sweden or something.  What a way to put a downer on our trip and add pressure to the whole 'entering enemy territory' thing 

H tells me that the guy that he thinks is behind these attacks had been given a 'show cause' letter earlier in the week which basically required him to explain why he shouldn't be demoted after a very serious aircraft incident months ago.  H thinks that he is behind this for sure.  I am wondering whether ow's sister has something to do with it.

We didn't end up going through the terminal when we arrived because D22 was waiting for us outside.  We did encounter ow's sister when we left 2 days later though as she had to check us in.  She actually was very friendly.  I would describe her as sweet (insipid and limp, if I am being mean).  I was equally as sweet to her.  I don't have anything against her and it also sends the message that her and her sister are WAAAYY in the past.  Long story short, I don't think she is behind the attacks and for once, I agreed with H's read on someone's vibe.  H was very normal.  He is always very proud of me and being seen with me.  He didn't rub this in to her but we were very much together.

I then ended up coming back to this town 4 days later because H got called there again, D22 heard she was going to be doing her first solo and H knew I had 2 days off.  So, off I went again for a 1 night trip to this town.  We spent a solid hour and a half in the airport while she was on shift this time because D22 was operating out of that airport so the message that H and I are together was very much delivered.

D22's solo flight was amazing.  Because H has contacts, we were escorted airside to sit by the runway while she did it.  She did such a good job which is a miracle considering she nearly had a head on air collision in her final circuit with the instructor.  Another private pilot came into land thinking he was following her plane but he was coming in from the other end (head on).  We were listening on the radio and couldn't for the life of us see this other plane behind her despite his radio calls confirming this.  She asked if he could see her but got no response.  She then saw him after she took off.  Straight in front of her.  We have since mapped it on flight radar and she was 3 seconds from hitting him.  They were heading straight for each other.  She thought she was following him and then saw his nav lights and knew they were on the front of his aircraft so she darted right.  Then we hear "JESUS, sorry" over the radio when he realised what he'd done.  Chilling.  I am so proud of D22 for darting off course and following her gut because at the time, she was supposed to be demonstrating a neat rectangular circuit in order to be given the all clear to do her solo. Her instructor didn't even see the other plane and didn't realise the gravity of it until the review the radar footage afterwards.  It has since been the talk of the town.  D22 has now been up again and did even better this time.  She's such a clever little chicken.

D20 has now started her new role with H's company as a guest check in person (and all other airport things).  My airline and her airline have checkin desks next to each other so we will very soon get the opportunity to work along side each other.  We are so excited.  She is loving the job and also shone during her training being the only one to get 100% in her exam.  We are so very fortunate to have a very happy healthy family at the moment....all except for SIL (who has now cut H off for demonstrating boundaries and being honest with her).  I am really soaking it in and wishing the same for everyone else on this board xx

[UrsaMajor]

Smooth skills, D22!

Sounds like things are moving forward quite nicely!

[MadLuv]

We are so very fortunate to have a very happy healthy family at the moment....

Best thing I have read for a while here. 😊 continued happiness.

[hopeandfaith]

NotinLimbo inspired me to update 

Probably a bit premature to report but here goes anyway....

I have done something that I never would have thought I would do 3 or even 2 years ago.  I have applied for a job as a Flight Attendant with H's company .  The reason I never would have thought I would do this is:
a) it puts a lot more eggs in H's basket because if the $h!te hits the fan again, I would be the one to leave
b) it puts me actually working with one of the ow's (who I predict will like me even less than she liked D22 when she was a FA with them)
c) the training is tough - some say unnecessarily tough.  D21 is a smart cookie and she worked her arse off when she did the 3 week ground school.  She did have her eye on a the pilot cadetship with the company and ended up with the best recorded scores ever.  I just have to pass.  That should be tough enough since they lost 4 of the last 7 that went through.

Why am I doing this then you ask?
a) Its a gig on their regional carriers - 34 seat Saab and solo flight attendant.  Which automatically makes you the cabin manager too
b) their clientele are awesome.  Country folks and Dr's etc.  D21 came to love a lot of them.
c) better hours than I am doing now and more money

It all came about when I was last visiting D22 at the training academy she is living in while completing her cadetship.  I sat on the Saab like many times before and thought, I love this aircraft.  I mentioned that to D22.  She jumped on talking me into applying and before I knew it, I was talking to one of their head trainers (who I have met socially over the years) and she then got excited and encouraged me also.

I thought we were going to hit a snag because shortly after I applied, they held interviews and I wasn't in them.  H saw the trainer in the office by chance a few days later and she showed him an email from another senior who said something about crew dynamics being a problem.  She thought that was rubbish and was going to follow it up but before she got a chance to, I got invited to the next round of interviews.  It was a group session initially and then I got invited back for a one on one.  I was very curious about what the vibe would be because it seems that someone somewhere does not want this to happen.  I can't say I blame them because I would also have to fly with the guy that H thinks might have been behind his stalker problems last year.  And also the chick who was going out with that guy years ago who actually stalked H too. It could be a bit of a mine field - although not because of me.  Weirdly, I felt like the interview was a genuine opportunity and I am now waiting to hear more after being informed that I have made it to the ref checking stage.

The next stage from here would be that 3.5 week ground school and successful completion of that would put me on a hold file.  I do know that they are looking to fill 4 vacancies in our city but I am not guaranteed to get one of them.  I have therefore applied for leave with my current airline and would plan to come back and continue working for them until a vacancy came up.  I do love the airline I am working for now and I don't really want to leave but I want to do this other job more.  D20 has now decided to apply for a FA role with my airline and she has been invited for an interview on the 21st of June.  I think she will do well and we will probably end up switching companies.  H's airline doesn't currently have domestic positions available in our city but mine does.  I actually also think that mine is a better airline to work for so I think it would be a better fit for her. 

And get this....the ground school I could be attending is being held in the same academy that D22 is currently living in so we would be dorm buddies  . She would be an excellent resource too, so all going well, I should pass it.

Before I even considered applying, I asked H what his thoughts were.  Is this too much?  I know that H worries about having almost all of his family in the same company and he feels kind of responsible if anyone is having an issue with management etc.  He said he was fine with it and his actions seem to support this.  I think he is low key excited about the idea of me working for them (not sure on his reasons really). We probably wouldn't ever really get to fly together because he is always doing checking in the simulator and rarely gets to fly the normal routes.  He has to be a little bit nervous about how I will react to flying with one of the ow because up to now, I won't even go anywhere that I think she is.  Don't get me wrong, I am not looking forward to having to face this but I can't let it stand between me and what I want.  I am just a bit pissed that it is something I now need to work through.

H is still trucking along on an even keel. He regularly goes long periods of time without drinking now but he continues to live while on these little challenges.  What I mean is, we don't have to hibernate while he does them because temptation is too great.  We will still go to pubs, parties or into other situations he would have previously drank in and he either drinks soft drink or non-alcoholic beer. 

Small updates on other things I have mentioned in the past.  SIL is now deep in some sort of crisis that is very visible to all.  She is constantly harassing all members of the family to try and get them to tell H that he needs to apologise to her for a text he sent a few months ago.  She blocked him and so he removed her number.  Not quite sure how this apology is supposed to happen but H is not interested anyway because he knows that it won't be the right words.  A conversation with her is still impossible by all accounts because she ends up in a screaming crying mess when it comes to the subject of H.  He is still scratching his head about what he actually did wrong in the first place which resulted in her calling him a liar and him then sending his angry text (which he didn't mean to send.....he pressed send accidentally while swatting a mosquito).

I also mentioned that when ow's sister checked H and I in at the airport that time, I thought she was sweet.  The next time I saw her, she was much more salty.  I actually asked H if it was her because the demeanour was quite different.  She wasn't serving us and she was in a different uniform but that wouldn't account for the change in vibe.  Living on her doorstep (the academy is at the airport) for 3.5 weeks probably aint gonna make her day either 

Anyway, I will let y'all know how I get on and will probably need to vent here if/when I start with the company because I will be working through stuff that I could probably only talk about here.  Life sure does take some funny little turns doesn't it?

[Evermore]

It sure does! Thanks for the update H&F. I’m sad that we’re both so busy right now that we haven’t had time for even phone catch up’s. But so happy for you with how your career as a FA is progressing. And so glad H is still trucking along. Yours truly is a fantastic story of patience and perseverance. You just always knew didn’t you (and just quietly, I love that you encourage me to think the same ). Sending much love, hugs and luck for the new position!

[UrsaMajor]

Wow H&F,

I guess that is taking the phrase "Go big or go home!" about as literally as one can..... Poor OW is not going to know what hit her....

Best of luck on the change.... and on H getting his head out of his .... fog....

[FaithWalker]

Great update H&F.  Good luck on the FA job!!!!

[CanLetGo]

Wow, amazing H&F! Good luck with the rest of the process, I am very confident you will do brilliantly!

[MadLuv]

Amazing HF!! Onward and upward ✈️

[hopeandfaith]

Update time!!  Geez Louise, have I been busy!!

So...I got a phone call the day after my last post, to invite me to the ground school for the FA job. I accepted.  I then had a nervous wait to see if I could get leave from my current position.  Less than a week before I was due to leave, it was granted.  Ground school started on the 7th of July and went through to the 25th.  We had 2 days off during that time - the rest of the time was spent working our absolute butts off.  We started with 7 girls and ended up with 5.  1 girl pulled out after a week because she couldn't handle the pressure/exams/workload and the other one failed a critical Emergency Procedures exam (twice) 48 hours before the end of the course.  It was brutal, but she was sent home.  She had been the least prepared and got quite distracted by one of the cadets (on D22's course) so she didn't use her study time wisely.  I am so proud of my results.  I worked out that we did over 10 exams and faced over 365 questions and I only got 5 wrong in the whole course.  I never could have dreamed it would go that well.

During that time, D22 and I had some lovely moments together which included a 3 hr flight with her for one of her "solo navigations".  I was her first passenger ever and she did such a good job.  Once in a lifetime opportunity that we were so lucky to get.  My timetable and hers were very hard to align and then the weather was the next factor that had to go right.  It all worked out so perfectly.  So blessed.  I just loved going into the dining hall at lunch and dinner and seeing her walking in with her group.  I have lived this fantastic experience that she is also living and I know exactly where things are and who she is talking about when she tells us things.  Again....blessed.

I got a horrible migraine one day so I shuffled off to bed after my morning exam and spent the rest of the day throwing up.  I even had to put the HR manager on hold to throw up when she called to offer me a start date with the company.  That (start dates being awarded during ground school) rarely happens on ground school so I consider myself very lucky.  That triggered a quick resignation letter to my current employer and also meant that I never went back to work there after the ground school, like I had planned to.  My start date was 6 days after I returned from interstate.

H and D20 handled the house like champions while I was gone.  I came home to a clean house, flowers, chocolates and a new engraved pen  for my new phase of study.  I think he missed me I was honestly too busy to miss anyone or anything and it is the first time that anyone in my family has seen me do something so self focused.  I am so proud of how well H handled it.  I have always wondered if the small boy who likes regular attention would handle it all being about me.  He handled it like a boss.

Line training (flying with a trainer) was the next phase.  That required about 30 flights (sectors) and it was completed last Friday under a very challenging set of circumstances.  There is a theory component that goes for 2.5 hours before your flights (2 sectors) and then an onboard assessment which is super easy to fail.  The minimum length flight is 30 mins because that is the minimum length flight for full service (tea, coffee, bar, snacks etc).  My check happened to be a very busy destination so I had 32 people on that 30 min flight.  Keep in mind that you are strapped in your seat for the first 5 mins and then the last 8 or so mins.  That does not give you very much time to serve 32 people and tidy up etc too. 

And get this.....H was my Captain.  He wasn't supposed to be because he was meant to be interstate doing a check on someone else.  My Captain got pulled off my shift to do something else and H's check got cancelled so he got assigned to my uncrewed flight.  Again..once in a lifetime thing.  I wasn't sure if that would make me more nervous or more comfortable.  I was definitely self conscious doing some of the PA's because I knew he could hear them. 

So much went wrong on the day, including the Flight Attendant seat breaking which then triggered a heap of other procedures and adds a $h!te load to my work load.  The company was still deciding if the check could still go ahead under those conditions while H worked like a duck (calm on the surface and feet paddling madly) to get the aircraft swapped.  This also created load because our fleet has different configurations for different rego's so the flow of the security checks change.  One wants to have visualised the flow on one's aircraft before one's check. One does not want to be working on the fly (scuse the pun) and risk missing something. 

I also didn't have a right security clearance because my trainer was a bit of a flake so we rushed around getting that sorted out too.  That meant that some of my theory questions (drills) were recited while madly dashing through the airport instead of in a quiet little room where I could be in the zone.  It was my choice to do that because the alternative was to have it hanging over my head after the aircraft component of the check....no thanks.  H reckons that it was the quickest trip he has done to that destination in 10 years (because of a tail wind) and he couldn't do anything to alter it, like request a longer approach, because he couldn't play favourites.  He said that he literally winced when he did the descent PA because he knew it was so quick.  I was standing there, teapot in hand, thinking "you're firetrucking kidding me".  That  PA is the signal for me to tidy up and get the cabin secured and that happened like a whirlwind.  Long story short....I passed.  I didn't know it until well into my de-brief because my checker had to count up the nyc's (not yet competent) and you fail if you get 5.  H was pacing the crew room waiting for me. OMG what a bloody relief.  H and I had booked 2 nights away in a city hotel to either celebrate or commiserate so I am glad it wasn't the latter.

We were then able to de-brief about the fact that, in amongst all that chaos before my check, I ran into ow for the first time in the crew room.  Was not expecting that.  Head went elsewhere for a moment but I pulled it back and I think I also handled it like a boss.  She was pretty quiet and thanks to the $h!te going on around me, and the fact that it was 'check day', I was in the spotlight.  H had also seen her earlier in the morning because he flew before my flight too and had really hoped I wouldn't come across her - especially on that day.

It doesn't end there.  I got rostered to fly with her on my first solo day  . For Pete's sake!  Let a girl get a bit of confidence and queeny-ness before you send her into that scenario.  I checked my roster to see who the Captain was and it was a mutual friend of both of ours. Awkward much??  While we were away on the weekend, I noticed that the Captain has been taken off and no new Captain had been assigned.  I mentioned that to H who immediately said "oh firetruck".  It then occurred to me that he was on reserve that day and could quite likely be assigned to that flight.  So picture this.  H and ow behind a locked door that H&F can't get into     H and I talked at length about this and I really felt like he got it.  He was very encouraging and actually helped me prepare for that possibility.  Later on during the weekend, we found out that another good friend of ours was assigned to it instead and H was given another duty.  That duty actually signed on at the same time as me so we were able to arrive at the crew room together which was a lovely little opportunity for support and solidarity.  He handled that well too.  He introduced me to the Captain I was going to be flying with the next day but held off doing any other intro's.  He also helped me get some other security things sorted so I was very grateful for him.

The shift with ow ended up going very well and outsiders would reasonably believe that we are quite good friends, or at the least, a very solid team.  I laughed at a few of her jokes and was generally supportive.  She was warm in return.  There was a bit of an attempt to out sweet me with the passengers but she had no chance because I had been with them for the last hour so they liked me better  . "Delightful" I am, apparently  ;

So, less than a year after I got my phone covered in dog $h!te because I hurled it on the lawn after I came across a picture of her unexpectedly, I am now peacefully working with her.  Who woulda thunk it?

I will say that I have pushed through things I never thought I could achieve on so many levels and the rewards keep coming my way.  The weekend away with H was one of our best ever - if not the best.  He was really happy to talk and is really happy in general.  He said that this ow really just got caught up in the web of his lostness at the time and that she had been the ow to the main ow.  There was quite a bit of beef that happened between them apparently.  H admitted that he still thinks of ow (main one, not this one)from time to time but it continues to fade (thanks for your honesty H  ). He also put his hands up to his head and shook his head when he was reflecting on why he ever went out with her in the first place.

So there you go.  The adventures of H&F  . Looking forward to a bit of quiet time now because its been a heck of a year.

P.S D20 got into her ground school with the company I left and starts her course in November.  We've done a little company swap.  She is staying with my company now until then so I get to work with her a little bit too - like when I have an unaccompanied minor on my flight and I have to hand them off to the customer service officers (D20) at the airport.  Seems fitting giving someone else's kid to my kid to take care of.  Or vice versa, she brings the UM's out to me before their flight.

[Evermore]

Oh H&F you truly are delightful. I am so so happy for you (AND so proud). You are the QUEEN.

[forthetrees]

Wow, Congratulations on this achievement with high scores in such a pressure cooker environment. The incident working with OW seems like the final final exam- you passed with flying colors. Once again the Universe has shown that you cannot make this $hite up.

[UrsaMajor]

So, your D20 is going to bring me out to meet you? And you'll fuss over me on the flight? 

And she is going to go to your old company while you go to her old company?

At this rate, why not just buy 'em both, consolidate and call it H & F Air? 

Seriously though,

Doin It Like a Boss!

[MadLuv]

Wow H&F I am speechless and I will leave it there!!!

[FaithWalker]

What an update H&F.  Stellar job at all of it!

[hopeandfaith]

Thought I would post an update as I have thought about doing it a few times lately.

Had a little dip last week and it took me back to a place that I realise I haven't been since May.  I thought I could feel H pulling away.  I think I started looking for behaviour to match my narrative and I did find little things that fit.  I started monkey braining about whether or not it was just in my head or whether I was picking up a change in temperature from H.  I then started monkey braining about what to do about it.... talk to him or wait it out and watch. 

Pre-crisis, I used to always talk to H when something bothered me. However, it was always something that he was doing differently/wrong and I was always schooling him on what I thought. I was pretty controlling really.  It was fear based.  I suppose most control behaviour is.  Learning to stop that was one of the hardest skills to learn during our separation.  It was one of the best things I learned though, and totally appropriate for that state of our relationship.  I noticed that it gave H back control and although he had a habit of taking the long way around, he tended to choose a healthy course of action.  Some things just did not need my opinion and they sorted themselves out with the passing of time.

Now, I question whether or not holding back is the right course of action.  I still feel the impulse to go to H in a more reactive way and seek the quick fix of H's comforting words but still fear that it would backfire and I would hear a truth I wouldn't want to hear or just get the "I haven't really thought about it" response that I used to get.  It doesn't seem the healthy path for the relationship I want though. I ended up speaking to H, but waited for an opening rather than planning a chat.  I swear that he used to be able to feel those coming 

H and I managed to have a quick night away when he joined me on one of my rostered overnights.  It was just what the Dr ordered because we have been ships passing in the night lately and haven't had much time together.  We were cuddling and H said he was so happy (which is not unusual now). I told him that I had really needed to hear that because I had been struggling for a little while.  I didn't go into detail about all my little reasons for thinking so because I felt like that might have come across as attacking a little. I focused on the overall message that he was still happy.  He was more than happy to expand on that and reassure me.  He then apologised for not having picked up on it and told me to let him know whenever I feel like that.  That was nice I tell ya.  It takes a while to feel comfortable sharing MY feelings without feeling like its just rubbing his nose in what he did.  He wasn't disappointed that I felt like that...he was just ready to do what he could to help me through it.

The thing is, I do think he has been struggling lately and he did have an overnight in the town where he and ow conducted most of their relationship and where she currently lives.  I am pretty sure he was triggered.  I said that I wasn't sure if my feelings were based on what I was picking up from him or totally manufactured by me.  I added that I accepted that his healing process would not occur in a straight line and that I imagined that he would be triggered at times too.  He said that he is not "triggered" anymore but he does still think about her from time to time.  I confessed that I wasn't sure if I wanted to know about that or not but that I definitely do want him to talk to me if he starts struggling.  He turned that around on me and told me that he wants me to do the same...touche'

What I have just realised is, that the last 2 times I felt the pull away, he had just had new complaints lodged against him by that nutcase stalker person.  His impulse was always to drink and reach for ow so I think that is the impulse he now fights.  Happily, I can say that the latest complaint was a bit of a full stop to the whole ordeal.  Stalker person had contacted CASA again and claimed that H drinks heavily the evening before duty.  The investigator did try to call H a few times but didn't leave a message to call her back.  She always used to do that, so H chose not to ring her.  She ended up emailing him as a courtesy to say that they had received another complaint but it was clear that it was vexatious and they would not be investigating it.  She encouraged H to contact her if he had made any progress on identifying who it was. 

He was planning to call her back and explain that I have now joined the company so that might have upset whoever was trying to take him down.  When you think about it, it's pretty much the opposite outcome of what this person wanted.  Also, the fact that the company has hired me is a nice confirmation that the company supports H (maybe I am over thinking that). I am not sure if he has made that call yet because he suffers PTSD like reactions whenever he sees her number (or emails) so I wouldn't be surprised if he is putting it off.  When he first got the email, it took him a while to stop shaking and process that this was a good thing.  Now, there is a visible end to the process because CASA have now put in writing that they will not be investigating these type of claims in the future.  I am really glad they have done that because I had worried that his contact would leave and a new employee might come in with fresh vigour and decide they wanted to investigate it.

On the work front, I have now had 2 overnight duties with ow.  From the outside you would still think we are good friends.  We are very outwardly kind to each other which is nice.  There is an amusing feeling that whatever tone I set, she tries to one up it.  If the conversation is intelligent, she ups the ante.  If there is banter with the passengers, she ups the ante.  She is quite funny and is no doubt very intelligent.  She is also quite beautiful (there I said it ). The benefit of being this close to someone who DOES NOT look like an affair down in any way is that it allows me to see the weakness.  There is no ease in her system.  Friendships don't come easily.  D22 was so astute when she said that ow wears a type of Edgar suit that gets ripped off at the end of each day as she flops on the couch to take a huge drag on her cigarette.  That just conjures a visual that really nails it.  I would almost feel sorry for her if she wasn't too smart for it not to be manipulative.  I don't know if that makes any sense but it's the vibe I get.

Funnily enough, her sweetness has been put into question because she, along with 2 other female pilots, have made a complaint to the company about another male pilot.  He is a guy that H and I consider a friend.  He is super direct and does not suffer fools but the things they have alleged, including racism etc just don't seem true.  He claims that none of it is and asked H to write him a personal reference.  H agreed, having been his boss for a quite a long time and also having been in the unenviable position of having an allegation levelled at him.  His reference was professional, short and very well written.  These 3 females have now put targets on their back because a few males don't feel safe working with them anymore.  I low-key hope that ow finds out that H wrote a letter of support for this guy.  It was kinda nice to see some of her true colours that H was slow to see get a lil bit brighter 

Ow and one of the other female complaintants (who I instantly don't trust on meeting) were in the crew room the other day.  I hadn't met the other one before but did the whole "nice to put a face to the name" intro and awkward chat about knowing of each other etc but she just cut straight to "everyone knows who you are".  If I am not mistaken, it sounded a little menacing or threatened??  That also amused me.

I am not sure what type of person people must have thought I was but they are getting an answer to that question now that I am floating around and making my mark.  I also got a kick out of one of the other flight attendants coming in and quizzing me on a charter that I had been assigned earlier. It was basically a bunch of rich people hiring the entire aircraft and getting schmoozed with all the goodies.  One of the other FA's had been assigned the duty by operations but our local FA Dept took her off the duty and put me on it ....awkward .  The FA I was talking to about it is not known for holding back her thoughts and when I said that I wasn't sure why the other FA had been taken off it and I had been put on it, she said "I do  ". Note: the other FA is not the company's best product.  I was very honoured that they chose me to do it over her. I was also pleased that this had all been discussed in front of ow and the other female pilot.

D20's manager occupies an office space in the crew room and has very little to do with me but told D20 that I bring a very good energy into the space when I come in.  She also said that I also lift the energy of the room when I do.  That felt so good to hear.  H is so very proud of how well I am doing and got to see me in action the other day when he came on my overnight.  It was so good having him in the cabin.  I may or may not have pointed out that it is a federal requirement that he follows crew instructions at all times 

This dip I mentioned earlier was a good opportunity to re-visit some respond v's react skills (to my own feelings) learned along the way and turn away from the impulse to make H the cause of all my feelings.  I am very grateful to be here and alongside someone who still seems to be travelling in a direction that bodes well for our relationship.  A gifted friend of mine predicted over a year ago that my life (mostly work) would go off in a very different direction that was exciting and all about me.  She said that it was coming at a time when I could put down the 'project' that was my relationship and turn the focus back to me.  She wasn't wrong 

[MadLuv]

So interesting H&F. I don’t know how you handle the interactions with the OW, but you are doing it like a pro. Pure class!!

[Evermore]

Thanks for your update here H&F. I always find it weird to write to you here when we are friends in real life as well (it feels a bit weird).

So I wasn't going to comment here because I was thinking 'She'll fill me in when we meet up next week and we can talk it through then'. But then I thought 'You know what, we probably won't actually (well not in this detail), so I'm glad to have read the details here'. And I thought it was worth noting here that that's a thing that has changed (at least for me and I think for you as well).

When I'm by myself (say driving in my car or something) I still often have things that I desperately feel like I need to talk to someone about. Things/feelings/questions about 'all this' that bubble up and I feel like I desperately need to 'get them out of my head!'. I always think at the time 'When I see SIL1 or talk with H&F I will talk to them about this!!!' and in the past I used to. ALL THE TIME. Now though I find that when I'm with the people I used to talk to (OK, dump on I guess  ) I rarely have an urge any more to bring any of it up. I live completely in the moment and just enjoy the conversation/whatever we're doing.

It sounds like such a little thing, a little shift. But I don't think it is. It feels like good progress.

So anyway, dear H&F, I will see you next week and we will chat over dinner and bubbles and we will celebrate our progress. 
 

[hopeandfaith]

Time for an update I think.  I often think of doing one but then time passes and now I have to try and shorten the things I would have shared 

On the whole, life is awesome.  I was at the gym today and the instructor told us to imagine what has really pissed us off while doing jabs and uppercuts.  The only thing I could come up with was the guy who made me overfill his teacup yesterday which meant that I ran out of tea and had to make a new pot for 1 passenger.  He then didn't finish it.  I visualised tipping it over his head  .  Can anyone say "first world problems"? How much of a non-problem is that?? 

Having said that, I think anyone who has been through this MLC life requires bigger things to go wrong before they are labelled problems these days.  My parents are both being tested for Alzheimers at the moment but I already know the result will be positive (or negative??) for my mum. She is not coping with her progressing health changes and is in a quite aggressive denial.  This, obviously, is a big problem.  It is one we will have limited control over and will have to step through with as much love and understanding as so many others have had to do.

I am still loving my job and feeling like I can't believe I get paid for it.  Yesterday we had 5 American celebrities amongst our passengers who were flying to a remote outback town to film a new Fox show called "Stars on Mars".  They were a mixed bag but no one had an especially big ego.  There were some  paparazzi at our arrival port so they disembarked last and with as much cover as we could find them (out come the old Covid masks).  There was a news reporter and his cameraman booked on the flight back to our base who saw the commotion and harassed me on the flight home for the manifest - which he didn't get. Such a random experience that I had no forewarning of so they really got no extra special attention or treatment from me.  Mind you, that's always top shelf 

D21 has now resigned from her job as Cabin Crew with Virgin and has been welcomed with open arms back to our company.  She wasn't coping with being away so much and with the inflexibility that the Virgin crews are currently experiencing.  She will be working back in check-in/airport operations with our company which means that there are now 4 of us working for the same company.  D23 is currently back at the training academy doing her ground school for her role as a First Officer (based in our city).  There has been so much movement in the aviation industry since covid that this basing, which looked so unlikely before, is now available. 

We have done some renovations at home now that we know D23 will be living at home for a few more years while she pays off a cadet loan.  D21's boyfriend has moved in so we moved them to an unused lounge room which now gives D23 an extra room to study, sew and just spread out.  It really feels like we're sharing the house with adults now, rather than having the kids at home.  Most tasks are shared and I am not depended on to make the whole thing work.

Recently, H and I had annual leave.  We thought we only had 2 weeks but were surprised to see an extra week off on our latest roster.  The company is pretty short on pilots at the moment so he planned to do some casual work which is always very lucrative.  One of the other bases is particularly short-staffed so they asked him if he would consider going to the other side of the country for a week if they paid for me to go as well  . The perks of working for the same company hey??  Because I didn't have anything planned, and because this house runs just fine without me, I was able to say yes.  We had a great apartment in the middle of the city and a car hired for us.  H ended up working quite a bit which included a couple of overnights out of that base which he only agreed to if I could jump seat along too.

One of his duties was rostered with a female pilot who he'd had a little bit of history with.  He'd basically flirted with her on an overnight there about 4 years ago and she had developed a fancy for him.  He ended up having to shut that down so its pretty awkward when he sees her - which has only been once since.  Its a reasonably big base so I actually laughed when he told me that he'd been rostered to fly with her.  I asked him if that changed his thoughts on me jump-seating but he said no.  So there we were, a happy little threesome strapped to the flight deck for several hours over a couple of days.  She was actually quite a sweetie.  Never shoulda got tangled up with the mess that was my H back then but she has got herself a boyfriend now and it was all very friendly and easy between us. Can I just say though...THE GHOSTS NEVER GO AWAY.  If only they knew that while they are out there where the buses don't run.  Not that it would make much difference I don't think.

S19 has finally got some wind beneath his wings.  Last year was action packed for the rest of us but he was limping along trying to find a job and make some money.  The few opportunities he got were all duds and he was starting to get depressed.  His gf cheated on him too.  He was devastated. They are still together which we are not too impressed about but it is his journey to take.  It was pretty hard to travel along side him during that time.  H has obviously been the cheater so was very careful with what he said (and mostly didn't say) and I wondered if the example I have set has backfired for him.  I pointed out some of the differences but at the end of the day, the message I hoped he got from me was that I trusted him to do what he needed to do, when he needed to do it.  We have since been on a big family holiday together so that experience didn't drive a wedge between her and us so big that S19 felt uncomfortable bringing her.  In fact, he was having the best time until she got back in contact with the guy she cheated on him with while we were away.  Mamma had to sit on her hands to save from strangling her  .  Still, S19 doesn't even know that we know.  Our focus is him and it worked better for him to think we didn't know.

Just prior to that holiday, a friend of his suicided.  I don't need to explain how much that hits anyone hard.  He found out on a day that he was due to have a meeting with a guy to organise some mentoring/work experience.  Seemed like something he could have put off but he decided to go and honour what he thought his friend would have wanted him to do.  Balled his eyes out all the way there and back while on the phone to me.  I was soo unbelievably proud.  The meeting went well and the work experience set up.  That has now turned into the most beautiful relationship for S19 who has finally found his 'tribe'.  He has always had a wisdom way beyond his years and ideas that are so big they seem a little pipe dream-ish.  Not anymore. Everything he has learned and everything he wants to do is understood by his mentor and he has now starting paying S19 for his work and helping him get qualifications in real estate.  Those two, are gonna do big things.  His mentor is already doing big things and their personalities fit like a glove.  Honestly, the relief of seeing someone actually speak S's language and validate his knowledge and ideas is immense.  H and I couldn't be happier.  Here's the kicker...the mentor is H's ex housemate from when he moved out.  He never would have met him if it wasn't for his crisis.  To me, I feel like I am rewarded every time I am brave enough to step toward anything that I could have easily cut off out of fear and hurt.  I have a job I love because I was prepared to work with one of the ow's and my son has an opportunity that is pretty darn rare because "we" are still friends with the couple H lived with. Go me!

How's H you may be wondering?  He is on another non-drinking challenge which means that he hasn't yet mastered the art of moderation.  I honestly would be very surprised if he ever did because I believe he has a dysfunctional relationship with alcohol.  The last 6 months have been constant holidays or events for us so he hasn't been able to detox easily.  He has even gone up a size.  I got pretty over it by the time he started this last challenge even though I couldn't really tell you anything he does that causes that. Don't get me wrong, he is as annoying as the next drunk person but he's never abusive and I no longer feel like cheating is a temptation either.  That just seems done.  I hope they are not famous last words hey?  Its just an overall lack of access to H's true self that I get really tired of.  It's like having an annoying overseas guest in the house who keeps missing their flight home so you have to keep putting life on hold.  I did notice slightly darker opinions being shared during this period so I think he was definitely going fast down a slippery slope that scared even him.

The week before we went on our much anticipated family holiday to the most idyllic place ever, I wondered if I would get through it without us having a huge fight.  I never really harass him about his drinking but subtly make changes and pull back when he does.  I could feel the resentment and fear building but still decided not to say "if you do this while we are away, I will be ....fill in the blanks.."  He hates being told what to do and definitely used to rebel against it.  Anyhoo, day 1 of the holiday comes around and he's not looking for me to drive to our accommodation later in the day like I thought he might have been so he could have a beer.  The next day, we got up and went and did exercise before having a lovely breakfast.  I think he knew I would have lost my $h!te if he'd been a beer hunting machine while we were away.  Instead, it was a really nice and healthy holiday.  He was proud of himself too.  He did say that during the week before the holiday, he had wondered if he'd ever find his way back (to looking after himself). 

The last time we went to the this place was early 2020 when H had not quite moved back home but came on the holiday that I had organised with the kids regardless.  It was so interesting to go to the places we'd already been and be reminded of the H I holidayed with then.  I thought he was pretty good at the time but there was definitely more sullen teenager peeking through and times where I remembered that the last time I had been there, I'd been annoyed at H.  We call it 'tipping things up the right way' when we can go to a place and rewrite a negative history more positively.  In 2 weeks, we will be going to the city that most of H's relationship was conducted in and staying at the hotel where the rendezvous took place.  That will be a huge tipping of things the right way and a little bit of marking my territory too.  H was going to take me there a couple of years ago on Mothers Day because that date/day was a significant start to this crisis years ago.  His trip got cancelled.  This year, we are going for D23's ground school graduation which also happens to be Mother's Day weekend.  Last year, Mother's Day was the day I decided to apply for my current job so it marked the start of a very beautiful journey for me and a very positive re-writing of more history.  You never know, at this rate, I might actually end up liking Mother's Day....who knew?

Moral of the whole dang story.  Hang in there until you can re-write your own history

[xyzcf]

Such a lovely update hopeandfaith! In't it great when our kids are doing well 

I felt reading your post, that although there are ups and downs still, you are facing life wide eyes wide open and enjoying the good things that have been given to you...one word I guess, you have gratitude for what is. Really makes a difference.

Thanks again for sharing. Wishing you, your husband and your family all the good that life has to offer!

[MadLuv]

Good read, good days, good life be tipped

[Evermore]

I love that you’ve updated here H&F. Far too long for Messenger messages 
I’m back from cruising May 2 but sounds like we’re tag-teaming and you’re away following weekend. We’ll schedule that proper catch up after that somehow! 
I’m so happy that your crew are all so well. It feels very ‘solid’ these days. Thank you again for your message last week. I really hope your spidey senses are right on that one. Talk soon. Xx

[hopeandfaith]

I was just saying to some Hero's Spouse faves that it's funny how life can be brilliant and painful in tandem.  That's a place I find myself now so I thought I might come back and post - which has the added bonus of directing my thoughts ahead of an appt with a new psychologist on Monday.  This will be the first time in 4 or 5 years that I have seen a psych and I am going because I want to unpack some attachment stuff and lift the hood a bit.   I feel like I have had a few years 'off' of doing any work and it's time to get back.  I remember my last psych encouraging me to stop doing work and just live so I guess you can say that I have done that.

I had a quick skim over my last post in April 23 and was surprised (or maybe not) to see that I could cut and post the paragraph about H and add it in here.  The slight difference being that I think he has spiralled further.  I'll get to that in a minute after I update about the rest of my life.

The kids are excellent.  D24 is now a fully qualified pilot with the airline that H and I work for.  Last year saw us have some surreal experiences that I can't believe I was lucky enough to have.  One of them being the day that D24 first flew for the company.  The training prior to that had all been in a simulator.  Day 1 is therefore rostered with a senior check and training pilot and there is a safety pilot in the flight deck too to make sure that nothing gets missed.  H is one of a handful of such senior pilots so he was the one who could see her fly an aeroplane he has being flying since I was pregnant with her.  I was the rostered flight attendant and we bought tickets for D22 and S20 to join us.  What a day!  Gives me goosebumps just thinking about it.  The weather was horrendous but she did such a bloody good job and her first landing was a cracker.  I had a little bit of trouble keeping the emotions in check but was mindful of how disconcerting it would be for passengers to see their flight attendant in tears.  It all made sense when we landed and I told them what they had been a part of.  A big round of applause for D24 followed.  So incredibly special.  We have since flown together 2 more times as an entire crew which is both so normal and so surreal at the same time.  I just love ringing through to the flight deck to report that the cabin is secure and hearing "hi darling".

D22 is doing so well in her job with the same company.  More importantly, she is really balanced and happy in her life.  She is the one that has done the most work by far.  This includes taking herself off antidepressants and seeing a naturopath to balance her body so that she doesn't need them.  Her boyfriend is such a blessing and is truly an extra son and brother to us all.

S20 is still doing so well in the real estate company he started with last year.  He has worked super hard to get his qualifications in record time and has also become the family adviser in all things real estate.  He is still as pumped as when he started and I feel like financial rewards are going to start coming in for him in quite a big way.  I just went to see him carry out part of an auction for the first time.  He will be a licensed auctioneer very soon which will also be quite lucrative.  That boy has always been able to sell ice to an eskimo so I am just giddy about watching his success.

My parents.... We got a diagnosis of dementia for mum which was a long hard slog.  Things have settled a little bit there now because Dad has worked very hard to register for services to assist them in the future.  Mum has also started a medication that seems to have arrested the progression a bit.  It's still not a topic we can discuss without upsetting her so we just don't.  There's no value in it.  Dad has just taken on the job of doing the cooking and high risk tasks but mum is still very hands on with cleaning and maintaining the house.  She does an excellent job of this and no one is looking to take this off her or disable her in any other way prematurely. 

Little curveball though.  Dad has been diagnosed with quite an aggressive cancer.  He has started treatment and will commence chemotherapy shortly.  The prognosis, if treatment goes well, will be about 3-5 years.  Weirdly, he is taking this really well.  I say weirdly because prior to him having something serious wrong with him, he REALLY struggled having to look after mum.  He has been quite abusive to me over the past year.  Almost like, this is not what he signed up for and he was wanting to hand responsibility off to me.  I cannot begin to imagine what it would be like to be him so I have overlooked his approach over and over again.  Part of my investigations with the psych will include how I have taken on a parent role with my folks for my whole life and it doesn't look that is going to change anytime soon.

That pattern carries on with H.  It seems I have always cared more about his welfare than he has.  It's actually exhausting now.  It is not lost on me that the 3 humans I gave birth to are all more 'adulty' and dependable as people I can emotionally lean on than the people I should be able to lean on (husband and parents).  Like I said - stuff to unpack there.

I am pretty sure H is depressed.  He is still medicating with alcohol and its messing with him more and more as time passes.  This is hard on a marriage.  I think I have confused the meaning of detachment in the past.  I thought that by pulling back from conversations and doing my own thing when he is drunk was detaching.  It's not really.  I still feel worked up about it.  I am just worked up and quiet. This also possibly gives the misguided impression that I am ok with his drinking.  I have started being a lot more honest about the affect this is having on me.  Most of the time I manage to do so when he is sober but there have been a couple of times when I have not managed to do that.  Boy is that an interesting discussion.  Straight from the alcoholic handbook that is!!  H has described this as 'poking the bear'.  I said "you do realise that you sound like an abuser who blames the missus because she made him angry enough to punch her". He was aware.  The shame is heavy.  The pressure from me is ever present and the clock might feel like it is ticking for him.  But still, his fear is in control and he is still negotiating with the devil (alcohol). I am not however.

Fortunately, he feels rock solid on the relationship front.  He keeps confirming this also.  He is less comfortable with the fact that you can be both very happy and also very sad at the same time.  I feel like he holds back telling me how sad he is because he thinks I will panic.  I have started introducing the idea that I think he is depressed this week.  I thank god for D22 because if she hadn't shown that there could be a non-medical way out of that, he would rather die of it than admit that to a Dr for fear of losing his pilot's licence. 

The kids are very concerned about him too but have not raised this with him.  They haven't really had the time or opportunity.  I think it would have a powerful impact if they did though and it would be interesting to see what happens when the threat of his relationship ending is not the filter through which he hears it.  This is what I think might be in the way when we talk.

So yeah, that's me and mine.  Bloody brilliant but sad and heavy too 

[barbiedoll]

Hello Hope

I think I have confused the meaning of detachment in the past.  I thought that by pulling back from conversations and doing my own thing when he is drunk was detaching.  It's not really.  I still feel worked up about it.  I am just worked up and quiet.

.

This is very interesting and true for me as well. I am frequently "worked up and quiet" and believing that somehow is detachment .  I find that has a very negative impact on my nervous system indeed as unsettled emotions and frustration is brewing inside.  And resentments. All of that cannot be the true meaning of detachment .  It is rather a feeling of silencing ourselves tp "keep the peace" and that does not sit well at all. I wrestle with this frequently but I have not found a better way as of yet.  Recently I have come across the term "radical acceptance" and have just started to explore this.

It is not lost on me that the 3 humans I gave birth to are all more 'adulty' and dependable as people I can emotionally lean on than the people I should be able to lean on (husband and parents).  Like I said - stuff to unpack there.

.

Yes.  I understand this as I have felt the same many many times. This may always be the case in my situation ..that meeting my emotional need for connection and emotional support may never be something my husband is capable of doing. Maybe some "radical acceptance" will help with that.  Its just now how it is "supposed to be", but that's the reality.  For me personally I have lost two of my very best friends that have been my emotional support and that void and loss has been very very painful. My daughters are older than yours and I am cautious of leaning on them in difficult moments . It feels like it "should" be the other way around. 

I continue with my therapist as it seems there is endless unpacking to do as I move forward. Especially around attachment issues,  Always something new to learn and grow from I suspect. Your children sound just fabulous despite your long timeline of dealing with this MLC nonsense.  I am a decade from BD and still sorting stuff. That to me is shocking. My youngest daughter is on the final stretch of her PHD and is teaching at the university. Despite the last 10 years we have managed to turn out some brilliant "adulty" kids , have we not?.  We are rather awsome like that ! 

[9393roo]

Hope and Barbie,

Thank both of you so much for posting this week.  I’ve seen so many similarities  in our reconnection stories, just so many.  I’ve been shaking my head as I  have read through  your posts.  The alcohol, the caretaking role, the adult children that you are more connected with right now.  All of it. 

I too have struggled so much with what detachment is at this phase.  I get quiet and my H freaks out.  He is constantly asking me if I’m ok.  As I have been speaking my truth more and more he continues to shut down in shame.  It’s a difficult conversation for sure.  We save a lot of it for our MC.  Trying to unpack the reality of all we have gone through is a tough pill to swallow sometimes.  Also unpacking the reality of what was kind of always there at the same time and what needs to be different going forward. 

Reconnecting is not for the faint of heart.  I think all of our stories are showing that just because they return doesn’t mean this journey is over.  It’s a whole new trip with lots of bags to unpack. 

Hugs to both of you as you slog your way forward.  Thanks again for posting!

[hopeandfaith]

Barbiedoll and Roo, I have got so much out of both of your posts this week too.  Fair to say that it is a mutual admiration society for sure 

And our kids....well they are just the absolute best!  They honestly set a standard for the rest of the planet and I feel like I confidently expect more and ask for more of humans in general because of the standard they set.  If they can do it....

Barbie, that stuff I posted yesterday about my understanding of detachment being a bit wonky really only came clearer to me while I was posting, so my wish to focus in on the stuff I want to discuss at my psych appointment came true.  On my list of other stuff is attachment.  I suspect there is a lot here for me too.  The radical acceptance thing is something I am excited to look at too following you mentioning it, so thank you for that.  I read the bio of the psych that I am going to and apparently she does quite a bit of work with Schema therapy.  I wasn't really across that so I had a quick google and saw myself in the domain of rejection/abandonment and other-directedness so there are some juicy bits to chew on here too.  Interestingly, I also saw H in these places so it makes complete sense as to how we found home in each other.  Like Roo says though (or my interpretation of it anyway), it's time to move house.  I would like to do that with him.  It remains to be seen whether he is also interested in metaphorically doing that.  In one of my 'discussions' with his drunk alter-ego (who I call Al), I was told that this is who he is and he's not gonna change.  I almost laughed.  Sometimes I actually visualise getting an inch from the face of Al and telling him that I see him, I see his manipulation and I am not scared of him.  It often feels like I am fighting Al for H.  And ladies and gentlemen, I'd put money on me 

My new psych is of a German background and her bio includes a disclaimer about her being quite direct.  I love that.  She is also young and I love that too.  Young = fresh to me.  It does not equal inexperienced.  Again, it probably goes back to the confidence and respect I have for my kids that makes me feel comfortable and interested in what she might have to say.  I also like that she focuses on what pushes your buttons and then applies that to your life going forward.  I have no interest in marinating in the swamps of past pain to find my way forward.  I have never really prescribed to that method of therapy really.  I think it can be dangerous in some circumstances.

I hope you both know how much being in these trenches with you over the years has been soul soothing on a deep level.  Such a gift x

[UrsaMajor]

H & F,

I can 100% vouch for the "German directness."  Germans have no problem telling one that they are being an anal orifice right to their faces or that what they are doing is stupid if that is what they think or, my personal favorite - "You're doing it WRONG!" because you are NOT doing it the way they think it should be done. After living here for 20-some-odd years, I have developed a VERY thick skin because I am ALWAYS doing it WRONG!