[Hollie220423]

Hi all - new here - my husband of 10 years partner of 15 BD 15/04/23 - we have 2 children and I was pregnant with child 3 at the time - was 6 months. Left because he needed to find what makes him happy - moves to parents and I’m pretty sure AP was there all along - long story.  Bought new car and run up £17,500 debt on credit.

He announced relationship 2 weeks after baby was born, has been just vile to me a bit narcissistic which I’ve never noticed before - ended things via text and seems so angry . Is like I never existed all feelings completely gone overnight.

Introduced children to partner yesterday - he has been impatient and angry with the kids for months - wouldn’t come to delivery room to meet baby etc. but yesterday was a different person again - I always used to want to take the kids out on a weekend but he never wanted too. And seems to be doing everything I needed him to do with her - including taking her to all these places we been to over the years and doing things together that we did on our honeymoon and telling the kids so they tell me.

I’ve been super understanding not been angry just letting him explore but it is so hard I am so heartbroken he’s talking ti me like a business partner. He does occasionally reach out with an apology and says he feels bad..and I see the old him..

Initially I wanted to stand but he has done so much damage I don’t eee how I can end it he will ever come back again but li don’t no affect how do I navigate it all I’m still so heartbroken 💔

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am so sorry that you are here and the details of what has transpired in your life the past few months. So he speaks to you like a business partner? Then right now, get down to business. Protect your finances for you and your children. MLCers can run up a lot of debt and leave you and your children with little to nothing. If you need to get a separation filed and child support, get it filed. I dislike writing this because your heart is impacted by this, but he is not focused on you or your children's best interests at all.

The affair partner is a symptom, a serious symptom, but a symptom none the less. Just know that if it wasn't her, it would be someone else. She is just another thing to make him, drum roll or eye roll accepted here, happy. He introduced the children to OW because he wants to make sure everyone can see how happy he is and that everyone can be happy too- even you.

Yes, from time to time, he will reach out and apologize, but from his mindset, he feels that this is all for the best as he has found his long lost happiness. Just know that this is a process and it takes a lot of time.

So the best things to do right now is focus on your self care and the children. You need to rest when you can, eat right, and get your bearings back so that you can be stronger and ready to take care of the kids. As far as he is doing the things with her that he used to do with you, that often happens. MLCers are more focused on just doing and not being creative, so it is easy just to redo the things that he did with you, with her. When your children bring up his life with the affair partner, just quietly shut it down, "Well, that sounds nice, but let's talk about what you are going to do here with me."

Keep posting and know that this forum is a documentation of your journey and we are here to support you.

Take care of the baby and have an awesome day,

(((Ready)))

[Hollie220423]

Thankyou so much for a wonderful reply - it’s so hard to make sense of it, when you see glimmers of the old person but then are quickly reminded they are not there anymore.

I know it’s a process, it is one I wish I was strong enough to hold and remain standing but I just don’t think I can do it to myself anymore. Not trying to keep my own head above water and that of the kids one of who had AuDHD it’s so hard with the adjustments.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Read the threads of titleholder and MomofSteel. Both dealt with MLCers that left them with young children and to be with alienators and find their happiness.
I am sorry because I know how much work a mother goes through each and every day.

Just remember that the early stages of replay with the newness of OW and buying a lot of new things are hard. It just seems as if they truly are happy and we were the ones that kept them down. However, the bills come due and OW doesn't seem to be the perfect partner either. That's the reality and it bites bad. Now, the MLCer is even more miserable and in a far worse situation than ever before.

Others will come and post advice. Just know that while there are many similarities, each story is unique on its own.

I often notice that prior to bomb drop, there is something significant that happens prior to bob drop. It can be a great success or tragedy. In my situation, my ex's mom passed away about a year before bomb drop. It was really sad because her mother was going to spend the summer with her but died in the spring.
 
It just started the spiral that culminated with her full crisis. Of course, the death wasn't the only event. It was a trigger for many of her family issues that she had for years before I crossed her path.

Another thing that took me years to realize is that the crisis is not a crisis of you, the kids, or your marriage. This is within them and you are just collateral damage.

Continue to post and have an awesome day,

(((Ready)))

[Hollie220423]

I don’t know really there could be a number of things, I nearly died 5 years ago had a cardiac arrest in my sleep was awful few days were touch and go. It was so tramatic but really made us appreciate llife and love, just before this he had a bit of a wobble, then Covid hit and in the September last year his close friend who is younger than him was diagnosed with cancer - I know in the beginning he said To me you only get one life you are proof of that and I need to be happy.

He cries all the time when he visits the kids and sometimes just looks at the baby and bursts into tears but if I try and comfort him he just pushes me away and. Continues to blame me for everything. I made the decision I didn’t feel comfortable to have him at the birth, 1. he couldn’t have supported me emotionally 2. I didn’t want to get cross with him and say stuff etc when I was in pain 3.i don’t think emotionally he would have handled it - it was awful. The baby ended up going into neonatal and he still even then wouldn’t come to the hospital to meet him - said if he wasn’t good enough for labour he wasn’t good enough for anything else - and blames me now for the relationship he has with the baby said he resents me. 

As you said at the beginning the workload is insane 3 on my own one of which being a small baby and I’ve done all the newborn stage - whilst he is out living his best life. Then I feel sad because I feel like I could have forgave him - but I I’ve had to do so much I don’t know if I ever could.

Thankyou I’ll have a read of those it’s so nice to know  we are not alone in this - it’s really a rollercoaster.

 

[Treasur]

Have you taken legal advice?
Do you have friends/family support close to where you live?
How able - or not - are you to be financially self supporting?
How old are you both?

I am very sorry that you find yourself in this situation with a newborn. Imho there should be a special bench in hell for men who cheat on and abandon pregnant wives. I can’t even imagine how hard this has been for you.

All of which is to say that imho you need to turn your eye full square on financially and emotionally protecting your needs and your children’s needs. And that means turning off your support tap to/for your h who, unlike your small ones, is at least technically an adult. Right now - and this may or may not be who he will continue to be, but it is what he is now - your h’s happy fix is a new car, living with his parents, some debt to buy shiny things and an OW. It isn’t sleepless nights, diaoers, laundry, cooking and protecting his wife and family. And OW is at best a self centred foolish woman bc any woman who has an affair with a man with small children and a pregnant t wife gets just the kind of man she’s paid for. Please don’t feel any need to compete bc any OW who does this is a pretty poor quality human or worry that OW will ‘take’ your children - they may be cute temporary objects for her to try to impress your h but as you know, three small humans are not ideal for romantic evenings lol.

Please do not get sucked into his sadz as the consequences of his choices start to bite. They are not your monkeys and are how adult humans learn….if you still wanted him back, I presume you would prefer an adult as opposed to a man child.

Take whatever steps you need to take to protect f yourself and your kids from it all. Set up a visitation schedule for him to see/take the kids to his parents and keep interactions to a bare minimum so you are not sucked into his nonsense. Ypu have enough on your own plate to let him get on with dealing with his own chosen one. So, for instance, his relationship with his children is inevitably and entirely predictably affected when you leave your pregnant wife and children, duh. He can resent it/you all he wants, but he chose it ….,That’s not your mess to tidy up or dance around. And get some legal advice pronto as he is already running up debt, and tbh as your youngest is so little, find out how you can limit his time away from you bc that must feel inhuman.

[Hollie220423]

Thankyou for your reply I am in the uk and have had some advice - the credit cards are all in his name so not matrimonial debt we would have to prove it and I don’t think he would want me to see everything so is less likely to disclose that info

It’s been so hard not to blame myself his reasons for leaving were insane and it’s like he just stopped loving me overnight so I believe she has been there all along plus I do have proof he wasn’t with who he said he was one time.

He maintains that I am stopping him from moving on with his life as he is needing to provide financially whilst I am on maternity.

Doesn’t want me to meet her but is adamant she isn’t going anywhere and will be at our kids weddings bear in mind they are 8,3 and 6 months - how does he know all this - does he really believe this could go the distance she is 10 years younger than him  - and I’m sure will want children. So will he just repeat it all again - seems mental he’s left married life with kids to replace it with someone 10 years younger.

Its like he’s just removed me and pasted her in - I know what we had was special and worth fighting for it’s jus so insane he just ran away and didn’t want to fight and plays the victim saying how he is glad I’m not in his position because missing the kids is so hard - he never thought it would hurt like this.

But he CHOSE this.. he seems to be able to do what he wants but he is annoyed with me if I go out, or says he will help me and watch the kids later as he doesn’t have them overnight at his parents but then monsters if I’m late .

So for example my eldest has adhd and asd - he had an appointment with consultant yesterday - it was his weekend - but he couldn’t have them Sunday as he had ‘plans’ to go and feed the tigers at a zoo locally (something we did on our honeymoon 10 years ago but in Thailand) so he messaged saying he was hoping for an update on the app but  I didn’t bother so can I update him as soon as I can. So it’s like - he didn’t have his kids - he couldn’t come to the app because he has plans with her - but it’s my fault for not letting him know!! I don’t want to disturb his time with her - or look like I’m constantly texting him - he wants it.. have it.. I would happily not have contact with him until the day he has the children.

He will say he can see and hear how hurt I am and wants to help etc but his actions and words aren’t aligning then it’s like he is making out I am stopping him etc

So crazy - I am so so tired I just don’t understand how people can treat others like this

[KayDee]

Please do not get sucked into his sadz as the consequences of his choices start to bite. They are not your monkeys and are how adult humans learn….if you still wanted him back, I presume you would prefer an adult as opposed to a man child.

^^^^^ This. I can tell you from personal experience, you get the Super Soaker Sadz and then they do something $h!tety again and not only did comforting them take a toll on your own well-being, you have the added cruel twist of them throwing back your compassion in your face.

Your H did not emotionally mature. He did not develop decent (adult) coping skills, as evidenced by him running back to mom and dad when he became over-burdened, and following a teenager handbook for instant happiness. I know this sounds harsh, but this is who he is. As Treasur says - this is who he is now. He cries because of his guilt and shame. He blames you for not allowing him in the delivery room because he knows (deep or not so deep) that it is he that is not strong enough to support you at one of the most (if not the most) important moments of a person's life. I'm so sorry  - so much of what you wrote and said is what happened to me and I too felt. But I do not have small children and I cannot imagine how you coped with all this whilst pregnant. I am of the mindset now, that once you have seen this behaviour it is near impossible to unsee it. Crisis or not. Our physical self tells us to stay away from things that harm us. Your H has harmed you. He needs to get his $h!te together before anything else. He has to understand that he is not the child - he is the father. I wish I could say something uplifting, but after being at this (a mere) 18 months, and reading our shared stories, I see again and again how people who enter this crisis do so after their 'rock' (person who coped for them) needs a rock themselves. Yes, there are triggers - bereavement and illness, as is the case with your H, but the inability to carry this load and the subsequent fracture - that fault line was there a long time ago. Before you met your H. IMO he won't just wake up, or snap back into place. He has to face and heal himself. And he just added a whole new load of shame on his baggage trolley.

Please look after yourself first, so that you can be a healthy mum for you little ones. You and they come first. Hugs...

[KayDee]

I would happily not have contact with him until the day he has the children.

You can set this as a boundary. IMO, it would really help your healing. Go completely dark on any social media too. Ask friends and family not to relay anything. If you need a period of no contact (excepting exchanges about the children) that's perfectly reasonable. I am biased - I say necessary. Communicate this boundary to him and then expectations on both sides are better managed.

[Hollie220423]

 Yes, there are triggers - bereavement and illness, as is the case with your H, but the inability to carry this load and the subsequent fracture - that fault line was there a long time ago. Before you met your H. IMO he won't just wake up, or snap back into place. He has to face and heal himself. And he just added a whole new load of shame on his baggage trolley.

Please look after yourself first, so that you can be a healthy mum for you little ones. You and they come first. Hugs...

Thankyou for this - I don’t need to hear loads of good stuff to be fair - I know this is the end I just have to make sense of things in my head - and I hate how worthless it’s made me feel.

I wasn’t good enough for him to fight
I wasn’t enough for him to communicate and want to fight for our marriage
He has already met his next lifelong partner and hasn’t grieved the loss of me
I fought so hard to work on myself after being unwell because I wanted to be better for him and our children - he couldn’t do the same..

But after seeing this comments I know it’s all par for the course - she isn’t better than me - she is just blind to him and his stuff - I certainly would not be entertaining a man who left his pregnant wife. Or if their relationship was the timeline he gave me (pretty sure it wasn’t) his baby was 2 weeks old! Regardless as to what he’s told her.. there are so many red flags - she’s got her own place and now he’s using there as a base for him to have his kids - he needs her.. and obviously sex with someone new is always exciting.

I hate that I am praying for karma - I won’t do it I’ve not been mean I’ve just let him go..: but stupidly for my own validation I want it to fail.. I know I was a good wife and partner, and was his rock - your so right but when I needed him.. pooff!

[jmnab]

.. but stupidly for my own validation I want it to fail.. I know I was a good wife and partner, and was his rock - your so right but when I needed him.. pooff!

I don't even know for sure it's happening with my H (highly likely) and I feel exactly the same way. 

[KayDee]

I wasn’t good enough for him to fight
He is not strong enough to fight - he can barely keep himself afloat. He cannot likely bear other's pain at the moment.
I wasn’t enough for him to communicate and want to fight for our marriage
It becomes obvious to a lot of us, after a time, that our spouse was a poor communicator of their needs. The avoidant or people-pleaser types, they go along with things. You have no idea anything is discordant. So it's not that you were not good enough, it's that he cannot properly connect and communicate.
He has already met his next lifelong partner and hasn’t grieved the loss of me
Highly unlikely. She gets the broken, selfish man that abandoned his entire family. He gets - well, her - the woman who thinks this is somehow OK.

I fought so hard to work on myself after being unwell because I wanted to be better for him and our children - he couldn’t do the same..
Exactly - he couldn't. But you did and you will keep bettering yourself. Fact.

I know you have already answered these, but I though I'd nail them in

As to the Karma-bus-truck-freight-train, it's OK and normal. You hope he will see what a prize he had in you, what a gift his children are. But like all public transport, you never quite know when they will show up. Don't let this poison you. Keep moving in your direction, one thing is guaranteed, you will move forward and past him at some point. And you will feel very different in yourself.

[Hollie220423]

Hi all,

So a little confused here - MLC husband 38 - BD April 23 - 3 children, 8, 3 & was 6 months pregnant at the time with baby no 3 - now 6 months. OW pretty sure was why he left but didn’t formally announce until baby was 2 weeks old - met kids and moved in together.

Tonight being Valentine’s Day, MLCer shows up with gifts from the kids three red roses from each of them - but then a bunch of flowers, and my face sweets and chocolates. My eldest had no idea he was doing this as he didn’t mention it to him or ask him what he thinks they should buy me.

He stayed for a bit saw kids then left to be with the OW - he still hasn’t filed for divorce..

Bear in mind this weekend he gave up a day with his kids because he had plans with her to go and feed some tigers at a local zoo, which is something we did on our honeymoon…

He still likes to know my movements and plans, and makes sure most of the time that I am unable to go out due to not having children overnight - and if on the weekends he is meant to have them overnight he says he will stay to have them - but then gets cross with me asking what time I will be home so he can go and shower and have dinner (with her I’m assuming)

Behaviour is so hot and cold it’s confusing me - I’m
Doing ok and am focusing on myself and the boys and I’ve not cried today first time on a first (thing) ie. First valentines on my own etc in the 10 months since he’s been gone - gosh it sounds like a long time but feels like only a few months have passed.

Im keeping my energy back  so far… not letting him
Control my emotions anymore - or make me feel sorry for him

[Treasur]

What do you make of this gesture?
Nothing much.
Roses from the kids, nice, normal parent thing with small kids perhaps.
The rest? Performative ‘see I’m not a bad guy really’ BS. Or an attempt to keep you on the ‘just in case’ shelf.
His REAL Valentine action was to trot off to OW. And cancel the day out with his kids. A few flowers are easy to buy after all….whereas showing up for your kids day out as a priority is a bit more effort. As is repairing your marriage and ending your affair.

He left; you are no longer obliged to care what he thinks or share information with him about the details of your movements. That’s what happens when a husband and father leaves, surely? And it’s not your job to be responsible for managing how HE has a substantial relationship with his own kids or how he spends time with them or what kind of parent he actually is. Sadly, much as you might wish, you can’t control what kind of father he is, can you? If only lol. Most seem to be a kind of Santa Daddy/mummy at best. And there’s not much evidence that these folks are decent parents bc that would require them placing their kids needs before their own rather more.

I'm imagine it takes a little while to shift your mindset from thinking about the other absent parent as having visitation/custody as opposed to being a kind of babysitter or helpful spouse. A babysitter might need to know where you are and what time you are back; a helpful spouse is sharing the load and would reasonably expect to know why/what; a co parent having their custody/visitation simply needs to know when to pick them up/drop them off and what you’d like them to do if there is a life threatening emergency.

What’s your mindset on what he is doing when he spends time with your kids at the moment? What do you treat him as, do you think….babysitter, helpful spouse or separated coparent visitation? Is there a preagreed fixed coparenting tyoe schedule? Have you sought legal advice on custody/visitation? Does he ‘visit’ them at your house or take them off elsewhere for ‘his’ co parenting time? Bc tbh, if a spouse leaves, it seems like a bit of an unreasonable s$it sandwich that you should be obliged to entertain them as a regular visitor in YOUR home. (Can’t imagine how gut wrenching this is with a baby though)
Jmo.

So I’d throw the flowers/chocs in the bin or regift them as something inappropriate given the reality of the situation and go on with your day…..

[Hollie220423]

Your right, I needed to hear that - they show you a bit of their old selves and you take it don’t you - at the moment I’ll explain the schedule.

For the last 9 months he hasn’t had the children overnight because he was at his parents and said they didn’t want to have them stay there on his weekends - so he has now quickly moved in with the affair partner as she has her own place (he hasn’t told me had has moved in yet though) but his mum was cagey about my son asking questions about things in his room the other week and said he saw packed boxes.

He maintained that he couldn’t have them away from the house because both Ap and parents live 30 mins away - so I set the boundary that he took them out for dinner - he went mental as said I was stopping him from seeing the baby - even though I have said he can take him along for a few hours and then there was always a reason why he had to have them here in the martial home  - sometimes I go out but most of them time as a mum of three I have stuff I need to do lunches for next day. Washing, tidying etc so I just get on I stopped him bathing them as it was too painful having him do those things in the house and me having all my family together under one roof - again that was unfair of me apparently. He maintains because he is still on the mortgage and we are paying it joint it’s still his house.

Now for example he wanted me to choose to give up teaching my dancing twice a week and I attend a comp once a month because it wasn’t fair on him and our family time - I have a comp this weekend - I swapped this day for him as he had plans with the gf on his day last weekend  - I already had someone to watch the kids which I changed - however comps are late and sometimes run behind so I don’t get back until late - my eldest boy has asd and is struggling with the change we have a day out planned for his birthday Sunday him and I and need to leave early - so I asked him if he would be ok to bath them both and put them to bed here and I’ll organise someone to come and sit with them because the last time I asked him to do this  (back in December) he maintained he had no plans and was no problem but because I was later back than initially thought - (even though I kept him
In the loop) he was so angry with me because he needed to go have dinner and shower - now I think what is happening is it’s clear he has no plans as he offered to have them overnight - but he doesn’t want to stay in the house and just sit downstairs till I get home once kids are in bed - yet on a Wednesday when he has nowhere else to take them he’s happy too, I think that she is feeling uncomfortable about him being in the house once the kids are in bed because she’s unsure whether I am here or not. As last time he was fine then all of a sudden he lost his mind telling me I’m unreasonable - even though I have the kids every night and have done for the last 9 months I don’t get the opportunity to go out with friends and try and rebuild my life because I have to get a sitter - and when he leaves on a weekend or a Wednesday evening he locks me in as he leaves.. now I am in the wrong for asking someone to come and sit with them whilst I am out only for two hours and they are asleep as I should just be home when he brings them back - and as he won’t take the baby I have him with me all day anyway. 

He's told me I’m being unreasonable by wanting to keep my eldest at home tomo evening - because I need him to be regulated well and have slept ready for our day in London Sunday - this will be the first time they have stayed at her house and they only met her once last weekend he is coping well and has just started his medication for adhd I don’t want him to have any last minute upheaval - take him to London then he’s back at school Monday  - because apparently I don’t bend (even though I changed his day to accommodate his plans the week before) and I am the one who is dealing with the meltdowns my eldest is having because he doesn’t like Her. (Ap)

I feel like everything I do is wrong, I’m putting my kids first and don’t think I am being unreasonable for one evening a month needing to have him take the kids he’s refused to all
This time now all of a sudden he can (because it works for him) but I’m being unfair 😭

I now feel like I shouldn’t be going to do something I love tomo and should be home for when he decides he wants to drop the kids home as he never tells me when he’s bringing them back. I feel like a prisoner.   

[Treasur]

Well, it makes sense that you feel that way imho.
Tbh this has a whiff of coercive control about it which, as you might know, is illegal in the UK. And, jmo, but I think you should see it as attempted control and as inappropriate.

Have you taken legal advice on your rights and obligations?
Bc your h is living someplace else….he may be paying half of the mortgage (and only half, remember) but that does not mean he can use your home - or you - as he pleases. And if he chooses not to use his visitation time bc of not wanting to take them outside the home, that is not your problem to fix. Hey ho, adult consequences of his choices, not your problem.

I think the current brain hiccup for you, based on what you wrote, is that you are a) hearing what he wants or his opinions as something other than the blah blah of a greedy manchild tantrum and b) trying to organise things in a co parenting way that leaves you subject to his wants and c) accidentally asking him instead of informing him and then shrugging your shoulders whether he does or doesn’t.

I would suggest you stop thinking co parenting and start thinking parallel parenting. As in two separate train tracks. And start having a home boundary that keeps him going not much further than the front door mat. And to do that, you need to know what your legal rights and obligations are so you can disengage from his bullying without fear. He may own half of the house in which his children live but that’s it; he does not own your life or time or attention. You will stop being a prisoner when you feel able to stop caring what he wants from you and stop fearing his reaction when you say No. and more legal information can help with that. You may even want to take some advice from a local DV type group bc those folks know control when they see it, and have plenty of experience in how you can legally and practically unhook yourself from it.

A visitation schedule when he either takes the kids or does not see them, and you do not move your arrangements to fit his schedule unless it is life or death emergencies. And where your arrangements and activities are simply no longer his business so you refuse to discuss them. Or indeed listen to his complaints.

Much less conversation probably….anything beyond ‘the kids will be ready at 6 and I’ll expect them back by 6 on Sunday’. Maybe even formalise things using an app so you keep a record that is recognised legally.

Childcare when you have to be/want to be someplace else that is in your control like a babysitter. Rely on him for nothing, nothing at all. Separate finances and things like child support. And some clarity about how you can live freely with your kids in your home and work and do your comps, or find someplace else to live.

I don’t know if you will have to file for divorce in order to free yourself from this control…I suspect in the UK you might….but no one should feel like a prisoner of a spouse who has left you and your kids and many of us have had to do things to protect ourselves and lead a more sane and independent life. That’s your right as a human being, that’s what your children need so you can prioritise them and that’s ok to want and take steps to get. It’s not fair, but it IS possible. And sucks to what your delinquent a&&hat h and kids father thinks about it - these are entirely predictable effects that come along when you choose to leave your wife and small children.

But I think the door out of the prison needs you to talk to a lawyer so you can make a plan…..

[forthetrees]

Time to pick  your battles. I would let your son with the ADHD go with him. If he does have a melt down it may very well happen in her house and then you won´t have to worry about future visits. Let your H be the one to realize that visits there are not going to work. Then you can push for money for a sitter so that you get a break if he refuses to do overnights. As for him returning without a heads up on the time, you can insist on a time window and then you have to actually not be home before then but for sure be present when the time window ends. He´s not going to leave a baby home alone. You are basically training him to be respectful of your time through the use of consequences. I do realize that if the son with ADHD does have the melt down on your watch it will suck up a lot of your and his emotional energy. You could get a court appointed guardian whose role is to ensure the well-being of the kids and who does not take one side or the other of the adults. Odds are the affair will fizzle when the reality of 3 children come into play.

[Hollie220423]

Time to pick  your battles. I would let your son with the ADHD go with him. If he does have a melt down it may very well happen in her house and then you won´t have to worry about future visits. Let your H be the one to realize that visits there are not going to work.

The problem I have is I’m the one who gets the fall out and the meltdowns because he says he holds them together when he’s around his dad and that he is scared of him as he doesn’t deal with them the same - and he tries to intervene and it just ends up escalating.

Well, it makes sense that you feel that way imho.
Tbh this has a whiff of coercive control about it which, as you might know, is illegal in the UK. And, jmo, but I think you should see it as attempted control and as inappropriate.

Have you taken legal advice on your rights and obligations?
Bc your h is living someplace else….he may be paying half of the mortgage (and only half, remember) but that does not mean he can use your home - or you - as he pleases.

I have felt at times he has been very very controlling I think the whole not wanting to have the baby is to stop me from doing anything as he knows I can’t actively date or see someone with a baby in tow, but then when I have things on and the baby is with me I’m wrong for keeping him out late with me - (even though they are portable still at this age) and he is in his bed every night at home. I may talk to a DV group - I didn’t think of that as I didn’t want to think that they think I’m being dramatic, but I guess it can’t hurt to ask.

I have spoken to a solicitor about the house but maybe I need to check again. If I file in the uk I would have to pay for the divorce and I don’t feel I should as he wanted it - he pay for it.. however if he moves officially with her - then her earnings can be taken into account also. So I’m gonna hang fire for now.. but correct I think once it continues I will need to file just to release myself - but he will still have the control of the kids over me. Thanks so much for all your advice and help. I feel like I have been going insane


Fixed the quoting - UM

[Hollie220423]

I am now 10 months post bomb drop - I was 6 months pregnant at the time baby is now 6 months old with two other children 3 and 8 - there is OW pretty sure she was there all the time, he’s planning on moving in with her (already is living at her place tbh but saying he isn’t)

He has messaged this morning to say not a nice thing but can I have the marriage certificate to start ball rolling with divorce. We got married abroad so uk magistrate won’t have it. I feel sick - like my feet been taken out from underneath me - he has hurt me so much beyond measure and to leave me when I needed him the most is the lowest of the low - so why does this hurt so much - I feel like I’ve failed and just don’t understand how we got here our life was good, I didn’t know he was unhappy, what has she got that I haven’t..? How can he be so detached from this and not be sad or grieving me and what we had I know I was a good wife and partner.. I’m just devastated struggling to pick myself up today - everyone just saying see it as a positive I’m getting rid of the bastard.. but I just can’t 💔

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

So sorry that you are here. However, you are at a great place for support. I urge you to read the articles on MLC. This forum documents your recovery and movement forward. The number one thing you need to do is to protect the finances of your family. A man that leaves a baby while have no problem trying to leave all of you up the creek with no paddle.

Finally, this has been a terrible toll on you and the kids. Take the time to eat and rest. Try, if possible, to find a moment of peace. Self care is important and it will help you start your road to recovery.

I am so sorry for your circumstances and I will post more later,

(((Ready)))

[KayDee]

I'm so sorry. It is devastating and you are carrying so much at the moment. Please go and see a solicitor asap - a consultation will cost about £100. Divorce in the UK can be done entirely without addressing financial matters and this will not suit your situation. As you have 3 small children you must have financial protection and support. Likely by you requesting a financial order as part of the divorce process. Believe me, I know how hard it is to get your head around this when in such emotional turmoil, but solicitors are delightfully dispassionate and will give you the information you need. Take a friend or family member to take notes for you if you can. Agree to nothing until you have had legal advice. (((hugs)))

PS... perhaps a moderator can combine your threads, you have 3 on the go and it will be easier for people to support you if the information is all in one thread.

[Treasur]

I agree with KayDee about seeing a solicitor pronto. Imho once divorce has been mentioned, the landscape is changed and you need to protect yourself and your children’s’ future as a priority.

I would advise you not to reply to your h’a email until you have spoken to a lawyer. And while you feel like you have been punched in the stomach tbh. If you feel you must reply, say something neutral like ‘give me a couple of days to find it and let me know where to securely send it’…..

Of course it hurts. Your h, perhaps the person you trusted most on the planet, has betrayed you, lied to you and is now seemingly keen to throw you, your marriage and your family life with your children away as if all of you were nothing. Tbh I was thinking this morning that these moments are a bit like being told you have cancer….you know that whatever you wish for and however things unfold, your life has just altered irrecoverably and there is very little you can do to change that. And that is a very big f’ing deal indeed. So please be kind to yourself and give yourself a space to process the deep awful shock of it. Your h has kept you hanging for months….he can wait a few days for a response.

And please resist the (understandable) desire to share your feelings about it with him….he doesn’t want to hear them and/or doesn’t care, or he would have already done a whole bunch of things differently. At best, at the very best, he is a selfish weak cowardly man. I can think of a whole list of even less flattering words at worst.

If you were to follow the logic of all those questions spinning round in your mind, you would have to believe that there is something so wrong or so worthless about you AND your children’s lives that warranted or explained this. Is that really true? Does your little baby deserve this? Did your other kids do something so awful that they deserve this? Is ow so marvellous that it’s a sufficient excuse for upending your family’s life, your own little one’s lives? I think you know in your gut that none of that true. The failure is your h’s…. This is about who HE is, not about who all of YOU are. And I have to tell you, it’s not a very pretty picture of a man from over here. It will take you a bit of time probably to see him and his behaviour without the habit of a loving gaze….does for most of us here, but then we are playing catch up on truth and facts usually, aren’t we?

So, you will need to keep working on adjusting your eye to who he is NOW as opposed to who you think he was. Imagine a friend had experienced what you have….would it even occur to you that she or her children were to blame for it? I suspect not. You would think doubtless that he was a substandard PoS as a man, h and father. Be kind to yourself….it hurts so much bc what he is doing is a profoundly hurtful thing. The hurt of it might feel like it will kill you - most of us here even years later, even when we have experienced other big awful things, will probably still say it was the worst experience of our lives. But we survived it, and you will too - it just isn’t a quick or easy path through.

But while you are adjusting and grieving and feeling a million feelings in a few minutes….see a lawyer bc your h has fired his opening cannon fire on the boat that has you and your children in it. And you need a more objective experienced head to lead you all to safety and tell you what to do next until you feel like you are up off your knees again. Do that now, right now, pick up the phone and make an appointment right now.

[UrsaMajor]

Hello Hollie,

I am sorry that he has decided to get things started. I have merged your two threads into a single thread - that makes it easier to keep track of your story and you'll get more interaction if people have a chance to follow your story.

Treasur and KayDee are 100% correct. You need to see a solicitor/lawyer ASAP and get things in place to make sure that you and your kids are financially protected before he gets his quickie D and runs off into the tunnel

[Treasur]

And prepare yourself to consider that your solicitor may tell you that, bc of how UK divorce law now works and the separation between financial stuff and divorce stuff, it might be in your very best interests to file first. Bc that may allow you to control some things about the process as opposed to being on the receiving end of how someone else controls it.

That’s a hard thing when you never imagined wanting a divorce, I know. But sometimes, it makes sense practically so ask your solicitor about the pros and cons of that. I did not follow my solicitors advice on this a few months in bc I just felt I couldn’t….but it would have been much much better for me financially if I had. Maybe even emotionally bc things got a lot worse before they got better for me.  And truthfully, years down the line, if you and your kids are ok, it won’t make as much difference as you probably currently feel it will.

[xyzcf]

I have merged your two topics into one thread. Makes it easier for people to follow your story. Once you reach 150 threads, this one will be closed and you cna start a new one.

I am sorry that you are having to deal with this and have such very small children to take care of. The advice that you are receiving is really good. As much as you do not want this, protecting yourself and your children financially is a top priority.

[Hollie220423]

Sorry guys I’m not all that sure one how to post and carry on my posts, I’ve been finding it hard to navigate. I know a few things about it I have spoken to a lawyer and she mentioned that I could file first I would get a bit of control but also it doesn’t matter to much I just need to make sure that we have a financial order in place etc. so she has all my stuff on file - so I guess I just now will instruct her to start the process. I’ll go back through the emails tonight.

I took the marriage certificate and put it safe and I knew he would go through my stuff and look for it (he stole some money from me) denies it of course -  so put all my stuff away safe so that when he needed to file I would get the heads up first. So I’ll get her onboard asap will call her tomo.

Thankyou for your advice - it’s bloody horrible to be in this situation as I know you all know - I just cannot work out how people can treat people this way - least of all the person you trusted with yours and your kids lives.

I know why he wants to start it moving now as he wants to get it going before they get a place together so I can’t have access so her earnings also on the financial order even though he is living with her already. He's not on a tenancy or utility bills etc

[mcm64d]

Hollie....

I am so sorry to hear all of this. Children nor spouses should be subjected to what you are going through.

Treasur and the rest give some of the most sincere, amazing advice. I am truly blessed that I found this site.

As difficult and confusing as all of this is, please do not think any less of yourself because of what has transpired...in fact try to think very highly of yourself for being a mom in this despicable situation. All of this happening during pregnancy, child birth and after is truly vile, but one thing is certain- you are amazing!!!

Please try to be as well as you can and take extra good care of yourself. I found guided meditations on youtube quite helpful to slow the mind down.

You are in our thoughts and therefore you will never be alone in any of this!!

[Nas]

I’m so sorry, the timing of this adds an extra layer of cruelty.

I know it’s hard right now to think about five minutes ahead, let alone further into the future. I don’t want to overwhelm you with advice from my own experience, so I just want to mention one thing that you likely haven’t thought about that may or may not apply. I also was married outside of my country of residence. My former husband actually took our marriage license, never filed for divorce and claimed to have lost the only copy of the certificate, or it was destroyed in flooding rains, or he ripped it up and threw it away… Depending on the day he told the story and how much he had to drink and whatever other factors were at play. My point is, he took the only copy because it gave him control.

Please retain that attorney you’ve been talking to, take that copy of your marriage license and give it to them for safekeeping and get the finances squared away to make sure you and your children are safe and have a foundation under your feet. You can choose to file later or give it to him to file, but giving it to him now with no financial protections could put you in a very bad position.

[Hollie220423]

I’m confused as to if I give it to him now how does it leave me financially unprotected? Because I can contest stuff can’t I? I have three copies and I won’t be giving him the original none of them are in the house luckily. Spoke to the solicitors receptionist today she’s gonna call me tomo. As to what I need to do now - he will have to apply I guess then I can to recognise it? But I’ll speak to them before I do anything anyway. 

I know I am only just feeling better post partum - he has drip fed me info over the last 10 months I knew from the beginning there was OW but he waited until baby was two weeks old to tell me he was starting to think about dating; then two weeks after that it was early days, 4 weeks after that he wanted to introduce her to the kids.. they had been together just 6 weeks (apparently) at this point - now they are moving in together going on holidays etc been together only 4 months..?

[Nas]

I’m confused as to if I give it to him now how does it leave me financially unprotected? Because I can contest stuff can’t I? I have three copies and I won’t be giving him the original none of them are in the house luckily. Spoke to the solicitors receptionist today she’s gonna call me tomo. As to what I need to do now - he will have to apply I guess then I can to recognise it? But I’ll speak to them before I do anything anyway. 

I know I am only just feeling better post partum - he has drip fed me info over the last 10 months I knew from the beginning there was OW but he waited until baby was two weeks old to tell me he was starting to think about dating; then two weeks after that it was early days, 4 weeks after that he wanted to introduce her to the kids.. they had been together just 6 weeks (apparently) at this point - now they are moving in together going on holidays etc been together only 4 months..?

I don’t know the laws where you are but where I live a certified copy of the marriage license is the only thing that will be accepted, a photocopy will not  It had never even occurred to me to make a copy of it at any point during our marriage, but I only had one certified copy. My former husband disappeared with no financial agreement in place and he took that original marriage license with him. I expected him to file immediately. He decided vanishing was a better, or at least far cheaper, choice for him.
As of now, you have to protect your interest and the interest of your children as if literally anything could happen. If you have one certified copy of your marriage license, and if copies are not accepted in divorce filings where you live, it is in your best interest to be the one in possession of it, and to keep it safe, I would put it in the possession of your lawyer. He has blown up your world and has proven that he has no one‘s interest at heart but his own. Obviously your lawyer is the best source for advice on this, but from experience, you would be doing yourself a big favor by holding onto that document until your financial security is legally settled.

[Hollie220423]

As of now, you have to protect your interest and the interest of your children as if literally anything could happen. If you have one certified copy of your marriage license, and if copies are not accepted in divorce filings where you live, it is in your best interest to be the one in possession of it, and to keep it safe, I would put it in the possession of your lawyer. He has blown up your world and has proven that he has no one‘s interest at heart but his own. Obviously your lawyer is the best source for advice on this, but from experience, you would be doing yourself a big favor by holding onto that document until your financial security is legally settled.

I have got two certified copies but I’ll give him one of those and then keep the original. Thankyou for that little nugget of info - I know this is for the best I guess you just hope they come to their senses and become the person you were with for so long.

But bottom line is he ended our marriage via text, and requested divorce via text, never communicated anything was wrong, left me whilst pregnant, then blames me for not feeling secure enough to have him at the birth for the bond he has with the baby, didn’t take care of me at all post partum, has left me all on my own to deal with a newborn and two other small children one of which has additional needs. And is struggling so much with everything but H wants to continue to do what he wants to do (introducing her to them) even if the eldest boy is in tumoil.. I have to remember that the OW/AP is a magician and won’t magically save him - I tried for 15 years because I felt bad for his childhood wounds - not any more look where it got me. His loyalty to me was up the shoot so I’m sure it won’t be long until she is feeling the same…

[Treasur]

Be guided by your lawyer but I’d be loath to let him have the original too. Legally speaking, it’s the only proof that you were married.

On the drip drip timescale thing? Well, these folks lie. A lot. My money would be that ow was in the mix much earlier than he has said. And if not? Then both he and she are as stupid as each other and behaving like not very bright teenagers. But my best bet is he is lying, sorry. Bc that’s the textbook play and once you get your eye in, there’s a lot of predictability to the BS and WTF stuff tbh.

[KayDee]

Regarding the timescale. It could be either really. Yes, they lie (their shame) (or because they can - and who knows why?) and yes, they do jump into things like a pimply teenager. My H is on the Pimple Express from what I can tell - moved in, went on holiday (twice), intro to family, all in 5 months. All on FB, which he never used before - it's like if FB was available in the 80s   BUT, I know the OW had the plough out, planting seeds, for much longer. Such people see opportunity. I don't wish to be unkind to anyone, but there is a certain type who consciously or unconsciously targets vulnerability. I am not letting your H (or mine) off the hook, they have made their choices, and I don't think I could top what Treasur has said about the behaviour of your H, but the other person, they seek a dark opportunity, that I know I would go nowhere near. Ultimately though, it doesn't matter that much to you. The effect is still the same. I think I know why it seems relevant. I was there too. The madder the behaviour the more certified MLC. But in the end, it's exhausting and truly detrimental to a person's health.

I hope the meeting with the solicitor goes well today. You will be thrown a lot of info.  A friend on mine used to work for Relate in the UK. She is someone with the strongest values, and she rates them a lot. They can help individuals, especially when sudden single parents.

[Treasur]

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter that much to you. The effect is still the same. I think I know why it seems relevant. I was there too. The madder the behaviour the more certified MLC. But in the end, it's exhausting and truly detrimental to a person's health.

KayDee makes a wise point here that imho applies to more than just those ‘why ow’ questions and is useful as a guard rail to consider for all folks new to this.
It’s a perfectly normal response to shock and confusion to dive into bits of the picture to try to make sense of it. It’s what our brains are wired to do….look for confirmation or try to squeeze stuff into a pattern that makes a bit of sense. And to get a bit lost in the detail….like standing very close up to one of those impressionist paintings. I did too. And yes, it was quite damaging to my mental wellbeing.

With hindsight, I think though the more useful vista is from a bit further back…..the pixels become a picture then, dots become a water lily.

I recently watched a Netflix documentary called ‘Bad Vegan’. Without getting into the detail of the story, what struck me is that there was a point early on when the players did not ask themselves some pretty basic big picture questions. Instead they were almost distracted by the detail of a moment……putting a lot of energy into wiring x amount of money or not, say, rather than the bigger question of not being able to meet the payroll. And imho that’s how gaslighting works….theres a lot of don’t look at this, look at that going on. Again, with hindsight, I think we LBS can almost self-gaslight for a little while. An ‘oooh, he/she replied to my text quickly’ as opposed to ‘he/she has left the family home and cleaned out the savings account’. A couple of the  players said in the documentary that there was a point when they could not admit certain truths to themselves at the time bc it would have required them to accept that they had already lost a huge amount….and that was too painful or scary….so they stayed looped into a kind of sunk cost fallacy where if they ‘kept going’ they might get some of it back or it would all work out ok in the end. I recognise that thinking in myself in the first year or so, maybe a bit more, post BD. And I say that as someone professionally trained in analysis and deductive logic - not my finest hours lol.

Imho you are wise, and sane, Hollie, to keep your lens focused on all the big picture list of your h’s actions or inactions that you wrote. Bc those are factual observable things and can be a great bit of ground to stand on mentally when/if you feel nuts. Those kind of facts help us feel we can safely trust our own judgement and sense of reality. And part of that imho is the ability to filter what really matters, what is germane to our own actions and decisions and what is not. Again jmo, but a lot of MLC type drama is not as germane to us as it feels at the time.

So, in my case, what did matter was that I was receiving anonymous death threats….who was sending them or why or what they were trying to achieve by doing so or what anyone else thought about that really mattered much less than the reality that I was getting them. And that they had a big effect on my mental health and life. Which meant that my priority was to feel safer, and therefore to take actions, whatever they needed to be and whatever anyone else thought about those actions. Again, in my case, realising that my stbxh had stolen money from our joint resources mattered more in my decision making than if he had spent it on a new car or on an exotic vacation or given it to ow to spend at Cartier. My actions needed to be based on the fact that he had stolen from me, not why he had done it or how he justified it. Ditto ow….i knew there was an ow involved and I knew my then h had lied about a lot of things….right up to the divorce being final, bizarrely iirc even afterwards, he continued to deny her existence and then her significance to his lawyer, my lawyer and me. (I found out later even more bizarrely that in parallel he/she were planning their wedding…to someone who did not exist/was just a friend/nothing to see here lol). But actually that did not matter….what really mattered was that my h had left me, stolen from me, refused to talk to me pretty much and was consistently refusing to engage with any of the practical effects of that choice. The fact that I didn’t understand why, my speculation about whether ow was a delightful person ha ha or more likely not, or if he had been seeing her while my father was dying, even the fact that he was under psychiatric care, did not change the observable bigger picture. He left, he wasn’t talking to me, he lied so much it was impossible to place any weight on his words. That was the water lily. I took a long long time to swallow that, well sunk costs, probably did it in small chunks looking back, but finding the capacity to see the germane trees from the distracting wood was really important. S&itty but important.

[Hollie220423]

Guys. Thankyou both of these were just what I needed this am. My intuition is strong and has been feeling a certain way for a while which I have ignored - I understand this am after the devastation of yesterday why he is now onto the next thing - as that is how it has felt all the way along one bomb thrown after another.

If I leave I’ll feel better
When I buy a new car I’ll feel better
When I can spend my money on me and what I want I’ll feel better
When I meet someone else and date I’ll feel better
When I move in with said person I’ll feel better
When I can start having my kids overnight at hers I’ll feel better
When I can have family days out with her I’ll feel better
When I am divorced I’ll feel better and less guilt
When I am divorced I won’t feel bad for moving on quickly and she (ow) will feel more secure and stop questioning me and where I am/ what I am doing
When I am divorced I can finally move on with my life…


But I will always be there in the back of his mind - chipping away the fact he abandoned all of us when we needed him
The most especially little one. I had every right to deny him the opportunity of seeing his child born when he did what he did abandoned me emotionally, I however did say he could meet him as soon as he was born - he CHOSE to not do that because if he wasn’t good enough for the birth he wasn’t good enough for much else - that is HIM trying to manipulate me and make me feel bad for his $h!te decisions. I didn’t impact the bond he had HE DID. And if he’s telling her BS the truth will out one day. She is silly to think that if he owed his partner of 15 years and 3 children no loyalty when leaving.. he will not do the same for her.

Treasur you are so right.

He left me pregnant and vulnerable
I have a heart condition aswell as suffer terribly with morning sickness all through pregnancy
I had to navigate pregnancy, maternity and single motherhood and post partum all on my own
He stole money from me which I raised for charity.. it had to of gone somewhere..
He ended our marriage by text
He STILL hasn’t say me down and have a face to face convo
His Crocodile tears mean nothing - he has no idea of my reality!
The man I married would never of done this
His family have enabled all his behaviour and not made him accountable just swept everything under the carpet - so are no longer important in my life!

I know my truth, I  know who I am,  and I think I was a bloody angel, who is emotionally stable and literate and can communicate how I feel and show people all of me… he however pretends to be who you need him to be, then gets mad and say you changed when your merely reflecting his behaviour and the way he has been treating you back at him. As they say holding up the mirror it’s easier to run.

Thankyiu so much for your support I am the only person in my circle that has experienced this so to have you guys here for me makes all the difference.

[Hollie220423]

I’m not sure if I’m doing all this right - link to previous thread above I can never seem to find my original posts to carry on posting with.

So as the above says MLCer asked for marriage certificate so divorce can start - but when I gave it to him he seemed surprised. He threatened divorce after I implemented a boundary where when I was out he didn’t need to be there for the kids when I got back if I was unsure of the time someone else would take over - he didn’t like this much.

He is very keen to know my plans with the kids on my weekends and asks what we are often doing when seeing him.

Wednesdays during his contact he still comes into the house especially as we have the baby - he seems so comfortable - sits in the same place he used to - last night ordered me food and we all ate together… managed my son who has difficulties together - and said well done for the teamwork - I decorated the kids room over the weekend on my own. And he said how well I’ve done - he often cries when Holding the baby..?

This weekend he had the kids (apart from baby) at his new place with the gf overnight for the first time in 10 months (although he maintains that they not living together yet) he should of been over the moon but still seemed unhappy..? He said Monday it was so quiet.. he hated it…? Yet he is still chasing that life..? I am so confused - I know they are too I just find it hard to not try and make sense of things.

Last night he laughed at my jokes - I’m just trying to be as normal as possible not scorned I haven’t been mean to him at any point just let him do his thing..

So after this I then get smacked with the reality that he is going home to his gf and sharing a bed with her.. and times like this make me feel like we could rekindle but then at the same time so much damage has been done. In my gut I don’t feel like it’s over.. it’s been 10 months am I still in denial?

I find the lack of real reasons as to why we are here hard to contend with as our marriage was far from awful - it was a marriage which like everyone else’s needs work from
Time to time..

I’ve looked into dating and I just can’t I still feel like I’m
Being disloyal.. how mad is that!

[Treasur]

No, imho fwiw, you are adjusting to a new painful situation that doesn’t make sense to you, you didn’t plan for and didn’t want. That takes a little time, sometimes a bit longer than we think it might. And of course you don’t feel like dating…..and if you did, we’d probably be encouraging you to take your time particularly as you have such young children and are still married. Basically, to do the opposite of what MLC folks seem to do 

What do you think his words are communicating?
What do you think his actions are communicating?

[UrsaMajor]

I've merged this thread with your previous one. If you were able to link the old thread in, you were on your old thread. Just hit "Reply" after the last post to start a new one on the same thread

[Hollie220423]

I've merged this thread with your previous one. If you were able to link the old thread in, you were on your old thread. Just hit "Reply" after the last post to start a new one on the same thread

Thankyou so wasn’t sure whether to do that

[Hollie220423]

What do you think his words are communicating?
What do you think his actions are communicating?

I really don’t know - I feel like his words are communicating everything he feels he should be doing - he has left me and the kids, for over 10 months - if I put a boundary in he tries to hurt me by doing/saying something he knows will hurt.. threatening divorce but still not doing anything about it..


But his actions are like he still loves us all and for whatever reason he is leading a double life - I think the OW threatened to tell me about the affair (he never confirmed it said they got together after) and he now feels stuck - without her he hasn’t got anywhere to live (his parents) who apparently won’t have the kids stay there.. he’s racked up so much debt which I helped him clear once (he doesn’t know I know this) I don’t know it’s just ODD..

[Nas]

But his actions are like he still loves us all and for whatever reason he is leading a double life -

From the very little that you’ve written, I’m finding it hard to see his behavior as loving, or anything more than part arrogance, part guilt, and part doing what is best for him. Having the kids over to meet his girlfriend without even having a conversation with you about it? Asking you about your whereabouts while at the same time living a life completely separate from you?

As for the other things like saying well done and crying while holding the baby, oftentimes in the very early days we want so badly to see signs that we assign meaning to things they do. We project what we want to be true onto their actions instead of seeing their actions for what they are, and this can often lead us to not protecting ourselves or giving them too much of a pass. At best, he is doing a tick under the bare minimum for his kids and nothing at all for you. But a lot of things to suit himself. It does not really look from the outside like a double life that he’s leading, it looks he’s just doing exactly what he wants and handling as a little responsibility as he can.

In regards to the Debt he’s racked up, it’s really important that you get all the facts you can about your responsibility in that. The fact that you helped him clean up a bunch of debt once before and now he’s done it again is not a great sign. It’s a pattern of irresponsibility. And it is absolutely not yours to clean up but you do need to find out how much of it you would be responsible for and get all your ducks in a row to make sure that nothing more can fall at your feet. Take it from someone who learned the very hard way that whatever your imagined worst case scenario is in regards to financial infidelity, there is even worse than that. I can’t remember if you’ve already sought legal advice but it’s really in your best interest to do so immediately if not sooner. You don’t have to take any action, but please at least get all the information that you can.

[UrsaMajor]

In regards to the Debt he’s racked up, it’s really important that you get all the facts you can about your responsibility in that. The fact that you helped him clean up a bunch of debt once before and now he’s done it again is not a great sign. It’s a pattern of irresponsibility. And it is absolutely not yours to clean up but you do need to find out how much of it you would be responsible for and get all your ducks in a row to make sure that nothing more can fall at your feet. Take it from someone who learned the very hard way that whatever your imagined worst case scenario is in regards to financial infidelity, there is even worse than that. I can’t remember if you’ve already sought legal advice but it’s really in your best interest to do so immediately if not sooner. You don’t have to take any action, but please at least get all the information that you can.

I can not emphasize this enough.

MLCxW1 went batsnot crazy with racking up bills after we were separated. I took on my part after the D process started and cleared it. She continued to rack up more and more debt to the point where she, after the D was final, had to declare bankruptcy, had to sell the house she took on (I sold my interest to her for $1 and walked away from all the equity), etc., etc.   She was spending money like water flows over Niagara Falls. If I hadn't gotten my poo in one sock and gotten the financial stuff separated before, I'd have been in a world of hurt, potentially lost my job due to Security Clearance having a major issue with being too deep in debt, etc.

Make sure that your hiney is covered financially from his shenanigans.

As for the rest, what Nas wrote is spot on.... I see a lot of

in his actins and words and not a lot of

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Imho you are wise, and sane, Hollie, to keep your lens focused on all the big picture list of your h’s actions or inactions that you wrote. Bc those are factual observable things and can be a great bit of ground to stand on mentally when/if you feel nuts. Those kind of facts help us feel we can safely trust our own judgement and sense of reality.

I agree with this and I will add that with an infant and other children, he is leaving you in a state of exhaustion. Then he is pulling his stunts and that is just as emotionally taxing as well, leaving you physically and mentally exhausted. He has moved in with someone else and he then expects you to report to him and be engaged. His conduct at best is abhorrent and comes across as abusive towards you.

Wednesdays during his contact he still comes into the house especially as we have the baby - he seems so comfortable - sits in the same place he used to - last night ordered me food and we all ate together… managed my son who has difficulties together - and said well done for the teamwork - I decorated the kids room over the weekend on my own. And he said how well I’ve done - he often cries when Holding the baby..?

My advice is that when he is in the house with the kids, you leave. Don't eat his food and don't listen to his stupid comments. Teamwork...hmmm while you are with another woman. he isn't a team player...he is just a player. Going dark and cutting him out of your world will eliminate at least one source of annoyance that is draining far too much of your emotional and physical resources. You have to change your baby's diapers- not his. Going dark is not to punish him or change him. It is for your own mentally well being.

As for the other things like saying well done and crying while holding the baby, oftentimes in the very early days we want so badly to see signs that we assign meaning to things they do. We project what we want to be true onto their actions instead of seeing their actions for what they are, and this can often lead us to not protecting ourselves or giving them too much of a pass.

Guilty as charged for this as well. Even if she briefly said hello, or smiled at me, I took this for a positive. It's all fluff and no stuff. At least in my situation, my kids were older and more self-sufficient. You have to focus on what you can control and that is you and your family. That is your fight and priority. Get legal and file yourself if it protects you.

As I mentioned before, you are setting boundaries to protect you, not punish or hurt him. He may get upset, but that is just a reflection of who he is as a person. And it is not a positive reflection.

I know this is hard and just like the others that have gone through the turmoil, my heart aches for you and your family. That is why you need to worry less about him and focus more on your own self care. You are the only adult in your children's lives and you need to be strong for them.

Be good to yourself and have a great weekend,

(((Ready)))

[Sark1999]

He's mentally and almost physically torturing you. D is way better than this situation he puts you in. You have been too kind to him, my wife would have exploded on me 100x times. Eventually, you will learn to detach and just to focus on yourself and kids and move on to build yourself up, (physically, financially, emotionally) then you ll be at a situation that whatever happens you will still be happy with. That's how you should love and respect yourself my friend. Get whatever help you need from family and friends to get start shall be your priority, not for him but for yourself, and he will also notice that he's losing you.

[Hollie220423]

So as mentioned before he asked for marriage certificate for divorce - has filed and I received application. Felt ok as new it was coming still sad however.

In recent weeks he has started to have our children overnight minus the baby at the OW’s house and been out for ‘family’ days out - I’ve just let everything unfold haven’t fought or begged at any point.

This week my middle child has been so poorly with chicken pox - he was asking what he can do - I again have let him lead and figure it out not put pressure on him or told him what I need - he came over to help with bath and bed etc. bought a load of shopping over when he came offered to buy dinner and for me to eat with them all - I  declined  and went for a drive for some breathing space as been stuck in for 6 days now all in my own with the kids.

Yesterday he was sending me texts sayin - sometimes he thinks what the f*ck are we doing? And that he wishes he had handled things differently so we were not where we are now.

And that ehen he bought the kids back he realised how much he misses family time - has wanted to seem to spend more time in the house. And has been/seemed comfortable when here - but has stil filed?!?

I just said I can understand why he felt the way he did and that sometimes these things happen to make us grow as people for the better etc. but that I agree it is crazy and I sometimes to wonder how we got here.

Told him I had been on a few days which is said he is glad I have and told me well done?!?

I think I am going to continue to go through the motions of everything - this is his decision and journey.

I’m not sure how to feel.. all we all want is our family’s back but then again he left me at such. Vulnerable time - but I do understand depression and how the brain works.

[KayDee]

So as mentioned before he asked for marriage certificate for divorce - has filed and I received application. Felt ok as new it was coming still sad however. 

Yesterday he was sending me texts sayin - sometimes he thinks what the f*ck are we doing? And that he wishes he had handled things differently so we were not where we are now.

And that ehen he bought the kids back he realised how much he misses family time - has wanted to seem to spend more time in the house. And has been/seemed comfortable when here - but has stil filed?!?

I just said I can understand why he felt the way he did and that sometimes these things happen to make us grow as people for the better etc. but that I agree it is crazy and I sometimes to wonder how we got here. .

What jumped out at me was the 'WE' in these statements. OK, yes, I get it, it takes two in a relationship (bla bla bla), but here it was ONE who walked away from all their responsibilities, without a two-way dialogue, without warning, without (sorry) a care for those he left shattered in his wake. So, no, there is no WE here. There is 'what the f*ck am I doing' and 'where HE is now'. Excuse my anger, but in the way he writes this, he is avoiding responsibility for his actions. Again.

Yes, it is good to better understand the depressed mind, but depression is common to us all. It is likely we will all have bouts of depression at some point in our lives. How we handle it will differ. We do still have choices. I think you are handling things with great courage and strength. But remember to nurture your own needs too. It must be incredibly hard to get some rest and space with such youngs ones. Are there any friends or family close by that can give you some respite?

I'm glad you are still posting Hollie - you have a gang here that gets how you feel (((hugs)))

[Hollie220423]

Thanks KayDee, you are so right I wanted to say WE did not make this decision. But knew it would blow up so I merely end back to him and said you have decided to keep the ball rolling with everything - and as your wife who said I would support you in your decisions this is no different. I don’t agree but it’s what he wanted.

So bloody odd!!

[Treasur]

It's all fluff and no stuff.

Have to say I agree that I don’t see loving behaviours either. I see selfishness, self pity, spite, maybe neediness, manipulation.

In my world, people who love me - even people who like me actually - don’t threaten me or intentionally hurt me.
Idk your own FOO history, but it might be worth considering what love looks like to you and why.
And if you could imagine any circumstance in an infinite universe where you would treat your very small children and a baby as he is doing. If not, that tells you at a basic level that, put simply, his version of love - whatever it is - is not the same as your version.

His words seem to me to be about control or self pity and rather patronising.
His actions seem to me to be about profound self-centredness and lack of protective care.
And of course, practically speaking, he left you all, has an ow, had a tantrum and did not show care about yhe birth of your baby and is not a present reliable parent. I’m so sorry, bc that truly sucks to say and hear, but it is factually true, isn’t it?
And now he has filed.
Depression or not, that’s a significant choice imho that changes the landscape and changes your obligations towards him.

You have time to figure out what you want to do with any conclusions you reach.
I’m glad that you have a couple of splendid male posters’ thoughts too so you can see that it isn’t just a female perspective on a man that does this to a pregnant wife.

My advice fwiw is that it will be easier for you to think about what is best for you and the kids if you spend less time interacting with him….it keeps your own mental decks clear, if that makes sense. I understand that this might seem difficult at first but it is possible. As ready says, when he comes over on Wednesdays, say hello, hand over the kids and get yourself busy elsewhere or doing something else. lol, you could see it as free laundry time even bc I bet you have a ton of laundry with so many small kids! Or make it your regular grocery shopping hour bc, as you know, trailing small kids round a supermarket is not a joy 

I don’t know if you have taken legal advice but you should.
If only bc it might help you evolve towards a new more formalised way to do visitation that does not mean it happening in your house or under your nose. I can see that you are already exploring that with the overnights etc….good, your home is no longer HIS home. I’d just ignore the ‘miss my family’ texts bc it is pointless BS and not what his actions show. Blah, blah, blah.

Imho don’t let him ‘lead’ anything important wrt your life and home. Partly bc he’s an a$$hat who does not deserve to lead anything more than his own poop. Mostly bc the reality of divorce means two separate households. Good on you for going out for a drive.

Learn to inform not ask, or to ask but not expect.
Build a back up support system for the future when the kids are with you that does not require him except in a life threatening emergency.
Start seeing yourself as a single parent for most of the time and experiment with ways to do that, hard as it is.
Learn to use good solid boundaries on what is his business in your life and what is not as an ex-husband and non resident parent. Bc I suspect he won’t. As KayDee says there is no We in this. And not much We after the divorce he chose, even as parents. There is Me plus kids and You plus kids with a tiny bit of the Venn diagram intersecting. His choice. And to be fair a legal divorce probably makes that easier to see in practice. But I’d start treating him like an ex-husband now already. His opinion of your redecoration? Blah blah, not his house. Or wanting to spend more time at YOUR home? Blah blah, he shouldn’t have left then, not your problem to make better.
And don’t trip yourself into mentally giving him father of the year ‘b!tc# cookies’ for doing the bare minimum parenting either.

If you're lucky, you can Co-parent to some degree, unless he’s a complete f**kwit, but the reality is I imagine that you will be the primary parent and you and your kids will build a new kind of family where he pops up occasionally to be Disney Dad for a couple of days. And if you are feeling a bit jaded lol, take some comfort in the fact that ow is going to find that four small kids occasionally being around rather squeezes the juice out of those romantic moments  (although is it ok if I hate her a bit on your behalf? You have to be a special PoS as a woman to do what she’s done with small kids and a baby involved imho)

You are doing so well, even if you think you are not.
Let it unfold and keep going.
And let yourself slowly begin to see and try out different ways of living that please you. I suspect - although it might not feel like it right now - that you may find you have a lighter load having just four kids rather than the extra large demanding fifth one too!

And tbh, if he is using divorce as a threat to try to put you back in whatever box he is trying to keep you in, the easiest way to neutralise that threat is to be less afraid of divorce. Getting more information can help you see the possible benefits as well as the disadvantages, or at least help you accept it as a possibility that may be beyond your control, and that you will survive it if it does. Like looking at the bogey man under the bed lol. So you can reach a point where the threat does not work anymore and you can say something like ‘I’m sorry you feel that way and that wouldn’t be my first choice, but if that’s what you want to do, fill your boots….let me know the contact details for your lawyer and I’ll pass them on to my lawyer’. And then walk away. Sounds like that is about where you are?

Put simply, it is not your job to unleash punishment for his actions but it is absolutely not your job to protect him from the entirely predictable consequences of his own actions either. Your h is firing you as his wife and life team….so it’s ok to lay down those responsibilities and let him figure out how to deal with his own consequences without your involvement. Or not. Let him take his sadz elsewhere. Tbh that is what detachment really means, just takes a bit of time to get there….you don’t wish him ill, you just reach a point of shrugging your shoulders. And let him shove his well dones or opinions about your life now where the sun don’t shine bc divorcd means that’s no longer his job either, grrr.

Try not to be too scared about divorce. There’s no shame in it, or if there is, it isn’t your shame to carry. No one can clap one-handed 
None of us here wanted it, but we have survived regardless. There is a good peaceful life to be found on the other side of this, even if it turns out to be a different one than you’d planned.
And being married to someone who behaves like these folks behave is not a delightful walk in the park either, is it?

[KayDee]

Yes, the odd thing is, he is a grown arse man acting like a teenager. He wishes he handled things differently???  Then handle things differently now. It's a kind of arrogant and stupid statement all rolled into one. As if this was him making some small faux pas, not blowing everything up by abandoning his entire family - and himself, BTW.  I am likely getting irate on your behalf  and perhaps on behalf of so many of us here on the forum, because we have all had this kind of nonsense thrown at us. Hard not to read into it - is he confused, depressed, mad, under the spell of a wicked temptress? The more boring version is that his limited coping strategies failed him and his he deployed Maladaptive Coping Strategy 101 - run away. I guess we all have to accept their actions, but maybe mull over the 'support' part in your narrative. When I get these kind of emotional twister comments from my H, I don't respond to them at all. I just keep to the practical. Until he stops blaming you (which he is doing BTW, when he makes you part of the WE that violently ripped everything apart), it might be a better strategy. Just a thought.

[Treasur]

Yeah, as KayDee says, we are a bit angry on your behalf lol.
You may not have reached your angry stage yet, and if you do, don’t worry, it’s a stage and it passes. But sometimes we are like a huddle of aunties and uncles who can see what you can’t yet perhaps, and want to punch his nose hard 

[KayDee]

I was thinking more of a giant anvil dropped from the top of the canyon 

[Trustandlove]

I wanted to say WE did not make this decision. But knew it would blow up so I merely end back to him and said you have decided to keep the ball rolling with everything

This jumped out at me, only because I remember my H behaving in a similar fashion to yours early on in this crisis.  I also remember when I plucked up the courage to say that I didn't participate in this decision, that WE didn't get anywhere, that this was all him. 

Of course it didn't go over well, but one good piece of advice that I had was not to be afraid of monster -- not to be afraid of him blowing up about anything. 

It took me a long time to get through the "understanding" part; I, too, felt that he was so depressed and that my role was to be understanding and supportive pretty much no matter what. 

I learned that "coddling the patient" wasn't a good way to proceed; it wasn't showing him support, however much I wanted to do that and wanted him to see that I was doing that. 

I remembered lessons from world history -- "appeasement never works". 

It was scary as all heck to say things like:  I didn't  choose this, there is no "we" in this decision, but it definitely helped me gain some perspective. 

I had three young children (no baby, though) at the time as well.  I was trying hard to tell them that daddy must be going through something, that I was sure he loved them, etc, etc., but his actions were showing anything but  that. 

And I was so afraid of divorce that I was shaking with fear day in, day out.  Please don't be afraid, it is much more important to get the legal advice and get your ducks in a row as much as possible. 

My H promised that he would take care of us, that he would take care of the children; I believed him for a long time, because I wanted to, and because that was who I always thought he was.  Getting through that took years for me, but if I had continued to trust that he would do so the children and I would have been left without anything. 

I also know that when I was told things like this early on in the process it was hard for me to take it in, I just couldn't square it with the person I thought he was, and I genuinely believed that if I kept on being "good" that we (yes, we) would get through this. 

Treasur has very good advice here. 

I know this is hard, hard, hard.  And we all so much want our spouses to get through this, we want "us" as a couple to get through this.  But the comments are right, he isn't treating you well at all.  And it won't hurt anything to make that clear.

hang in there, you really are doing very well, even if it doesn't feel like it.

[UrsaMajor]

First.....

"We?" Has he got a mouse in his pocket? When MLCxW2 and I sat down to tell the kids, she started with "We have decided.... " and I cut her off right away and said that this was NOT a "we decision. This was HER decision and I did not agree with it but I would not try to stop her."

Second....

Yeah, as KayDee says, we are a bit angry on your behalf lol.

What I (the green guy) envision doing to MLCstbxH (Loki) for his actions

Hulk SMASH!

He wishes he handled things differently???  Then handle things differently now. It's a kind of arrogant and stupid statement all rolled into one.

Then get off your dead Hiney and DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY! NO ONE IS HOLDING A BAZOOKA TO YOUR HEAD FORCING YOU TO DO WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!!

Have to say I agree that I don’t see loving behaviours either. I see selfishness, self pity, spite, maybe neediness, manipulation.

Yes.... You can ask him...


<rant over>

[xyzcf]

What stood out for me is you left to go for a drive when he came, to take a rest for yourself. That is such a strong thing to do!!! Both taking care of yourself and not hanging around for any crumbs he tosses your way.

Words are cheap. His lamenting, as others have said is all about him.

Regardless of what has caused him to go off the rails, you don't have the luxury of any kind of focus on him and his problems. Three children on your own is a lot.

I am really good friends with a former poster, Trusting who was about your age and had two young kids. These kids are now in university and her ability to take care of their needs has been truly remarkable.

For all those who have gone before you with young kids, and those who are yet to come.....I have seen you succeed. You only have so much energy. he is going to do what he will do.

You have a group of people here who will cheer you on. I hope you have some real life people who can give you support and some respite from taking care  fo the children and everything else.

KayDee stated "Yes, the odd thing is, he is a grown arse man acting like a teenager. " Teenager or perhaps even younger....and teenagers don't take responsibility for a wife and children unfortunately.

[Hollie220423]

Still not sure if I’m doing this right - new thread started as different subject -
Link to old here
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12158.0

So I received the divorce papers last week - and mentioned in the post about him coming to help with my little one being unwell - Sunday was Mother’s Day - he had our kids overnight at OW’s drops them back Sunday Am (she was in the car) first time I’ve had sight of her - was devastated.

He comes into the home with the kids and gives me my gift which was much more elaborate than last year when he was still at home and we were together - I felt overwhelmed and got upset - I gave him a hug to Thankyou - and he asked me what was wrong and I stupidly blurted out that I missed him - he held me tighter didn’t say a word and then we both cried together briefly hugging - he left and drove to his mums house with her in the car.

After about an hour or so he text to ask how I was hoping I was ok and told me that he needed the hug - that he cried most of the way to his mums.. I questioned him and he responded with that he has been missing his time in the house and spending time as a family - all 5 of us. That even though he has the kids at hers and they have had lovely days out - she is not me - that since Xmas he has been thinking about me more and more but trying to push the emotions down and continue on the path he chosen - filing for divorce was just what he thought was the next step as soon as he did it he felt it was wrong..

But me being vulnerable and telling him I missed him broke him - he now wants to talk - and I am unsure as to how to communicate.

I believe that he hasn’t called things off with the OW and is going to see how our convo goes before doing that..
I’m not sure I’m happy about it - I read kendras email this week and it made me feel like I shouldn’t be challenging him - but if he wants to make this work with me she needs to be gone.

It’s gonna be hard work and a lot for me to risk - how should I approach all this I want to let him lead and if I feel at any point my boundaries are overstepped I will stop
The conversation.

Thankyou

[xyzcf]

Hi Hollie,

I just  merged your previous topic with the new one with the new subject. This way, people can read your thread and for purposes of the forum, it's asked to not start a new thread until there are a 150 posts. I know it is confusing.

 

and he asked me what was wrong and I stupidly blurted out that I missed him .......But me being vulnerable and telling him I missed him broke him - he now wants to talk - and I am unsure as to how to communicate.

It's pretty common for them to go back and forth, one of the reasons that we call this a "rollercoaster". A divorce is a big deal, your feelings for him probably have changed as there has been so much betrayal....but yet

Your feelings are also tied to him, because of the love you had and your children.

Sometimes, you can just do nothing. Allow time to play out if he is serious about what he said. It is said that nothing we do or don't do makes any difference and I believe that to be true...except, that if you want him to try again with you , in a totally new relationship for the old one is over, then perhaps keeping the door open, which you seem to be doing might make a difference.

I think it has to come from him. Giving up OW is difficult, his feelings will waiver from one day to the other.

I looked back at what you wrote about his lack of participation in the birth of the baby...very very painful.....and you have to cope with 3 children and all the wounding that goes with his affair and leaving the family.

So take time. Continue to take care of yourself and your children. Breath. Get some rest if you can. if you are ok, listen to what he has to say but you do not need to respond if you do not want to.

Others will come by with some ideas and thoughts.

((((HUGS))))))

[Hollie220423]

It's pretty common for them to go back and forth, one of the reasons that we call this a "rollercoaster". A divorce is a big deal, your feelings for him probably have changed as there has been so much betrayal....but yet

Your feelings are also tied to him, because of the love you had and your children.

Sometimes, you can just do nothing. Allow time to play out if he is serious about what he said. It is said that nothing we do or don't do makes any difference and I believe that to be true...except, that if you want him to try again with you , in a totally new relationship for the old one is over, then perhaps keeping the door open, which you seem to be doing might make a difference.

I think it has to come from him. Giving up OW is difficult, his feelings will waiver from one day to the other.

You were certainly right about this - so Monday was the we need a talk and him saying he misses his family all 5 of us arranges a chat for tomo - to today calling off the chat saying that he doesn’t know how it could work/would work and that he has a lot to weigh up..?! Him….? None of my feelings even considered again this is the nature of the beast.. I know he won’t have told OW about this - I didn’t respond by saying that we won’t know if we don’t talk/try/ etc just said no worries.

At this moment in time I just can’t be bothered.. 😕 he should know whether he wants us or not.. not keeping her on the sidelines incase we can’t agree on things which were never a problem - he’s twisted everything I said round - and made it his own narrative.. such a rollercoaster.

[Treasur]

Well, if it’s any consolation, that’s pretty textbook and you dealt with it well and wisely. Sounds as if you didn’t get your hopes up too much, so I hope you are ok now.

It may have very little to do with ow tbh….both his temporary sadz and his temporary doubts are just as likely to be bc real life consequences are starting to dawn on him. That seems to be a pretty common pattern. These folks deal with difficult things by running and, from their pov, both options are likely to involve some difficult or unpleasant consequences. Or indeed a bit of effort. Which is why so many try to have their cake and eat it. Still just about him, of course. 

I don’t know how you currently feel about the pros and cons of divorce in your situation, or the legal advice you are getting about the big important stuff. I suspect you may see his doubts pop up again and I wouldn’t be surprised if, having filed so quickly, he drags his feet on the legal stuff now or tries to ‘hang out’ with you more. That’s a pretty common pattern here too. Tbh I’d suggest you limit your contact slightly more now - let him feel those consequences and don’t get sucked into his sadz while you and your kids focus on building a happy life that does not involve him much.

The wisdom here is that if you still feel confused, they are not really committed to trying to repair the relationship….if he gets to that point, and you want to, you can hear him out and see what he is offering.

[Hollie220423]

Well, if it’s any consolation, that’s pretty textbook and you dealt with it well and wisely. Sounds as if you didn’t get your hopes up too much, so I hope you are ok now.

It may have very little to do with ow tbh….both his temporary sadz and his temporary doubts are just as likely to be bc real life consequences are starting to dawn on him. That seems to be a pretty common pattern. These folks deal with difficult things by running and, from their pov, both options are likely to involve some difficult or unpleasant consequences. Or indeed a bit of effort. Which is why so many try to have their cake and eat it. Still just about him, of course. 

I don’t know how you currently feel about the pros and cons of divorce in your situation, or the legal advice you are getting about the big important stuff. I suspect you may see his doubts pop up again and I wouldn’t be surprised if, having filed so quickly, he drags his feet on the legal stuff now or tries to ‘hang out’ with you more. That’s a pretty common pattern here too. Tbh I’d suggest you limit your contact slightly more now - let him feel those consequences and don’t get sucked into his sadz while you and your kids focus on building a happy life that does not involve him much.

The wisdom here is that if you still feel confused, they are not really committed to trying to repair the relationship….if he gets to that point, and you want to, you can hear him out and see what he is offering.

Thankyou your so right - I’m really proud of myself tbf and where I am at with it - I thought I would be upset and I am a little bit actually I also know this is the pattern - it’s just wild how quick it can change and also I feel sorry for them - their heads must be a mess!

My solicitor has been great and has started the ball rolling with things - but because he still comes into the house to have contact with the baby - she has said that I need to discuss this with him as she feels that now contact should be taking place away from the home - he takes baby and I know get some of my privacy back - we get times set up and clearly set out - so he can’t jus rock up when he wants - maybe I need to do this so show him the stark reality of what is to come from something that he just felt he should do as it’s the next step in his motions..

How this OW is still there I don’t know and her own moral compass isn’t screaming at her - he is a massive walking red flag currently -  crying once he left here Sunday and gets in the car with her.. surely that would tell you something - but I guess he will just say he hates giving his kids back - and she will believe him - she 100% will have no idea that he has had this convo with me this week.

[Treasur]

Well, fwiw, I agree about him spending less time in your home. Far from easy i’d imagine as your youngest is still a baby (and does your lawyer have any guidance on that) but formalising things might be helpful and healthy for you and your kids, as your lawyer says. And yes, it will be a dose of reality for your h. Maybe for you too, so I wouldn’t do it to try to have an affect on him, do it bc it seems like a sensible choice given the circumstances.

You don’t have to hate him, but imho at least for the moment I’d temper your pity. Partly bc he can use it to manipulate you before you find your feet.  Partly bc he really has behaved in some vile ways imho and one should avoid inadvertently excusing that away as if it were nothing. Mostly bc he will doubtless be doing that job for himself lol.

And ow? Gah, I’d waste not a jot of empathy on her. You and your little ones are the victims in this situation, if you want to see victims. Not your h whose ‘I want to be happy’ doesn’t look like it’s working out well for him. And not ow who knowingly had an affair with a married man, small children and a pregnant wife. These folks had choices where you did not, and adults get reminded sometimes by life that choosing a choice usually includes choosing some consequences too. Play s$it games, win s$it prizes, right? And not your circus.

You may not feel like it but my word you are doing well. I take my virtual hat off to you. And what that probably means is that, regardless of what happens with your h or marriage, you and your kids are eventually going to be just fine.

[KayDee]

I was reminded of something the other day, listening to a podcast about Oscar Pistorious. How he sobbed so much in court that he threw up. It created this pity for him, by some, but I felt at the time that he was crying for himself, not the woman he shot and killed. And it made me think of my H, and how he cries every time I see him, but then goes off and does more unnecessarily hurtful things. I know it's a bit of an extreme comparison - but it did help me see that my H's tears could have reasons other than feeling bad for his actions. He could be feeling bad for himself. I cannot know really. I only see his actions. And your H's actions. He drove off with OW. And yes, her moral compass is facing toward Hades (IMO). You sound like you are doing so well, so early in. He's a fool, obviously.

[Hollie220423]

Thanks guys.

This week has been a bloody rollercoaster - so on my weekend he came over to help with swimming as the baby had chicken pox so I couldn’t take him out - he then went and bought me flowers again from the boys and made a point of telling me this. To apologise for their behaviour the day before.. that evening I get a text asking if we still going out for a walk I  responded yes he asked to join I thought why not it’s a walk - gives me chance to see if I still even like him…

Then he decides that he gonna book tickets to Lapland uk all together the 5 if us - thinking he meant the mistress and him and the kids - no … me?!? So I expressed my concerns and led
It at that - he then decided he did want to have the ‘chat’

So we did but he’s still saying that he wants me to give up my dancing - I teach Irish dance on a Monday & Thursday for 2 hours in the evening - and I have a competition once a month where it’s a whole day thing - I’ve been doing this for 28 years not a new thing - he said he only wants to come home to me and that it was taking up our family time - I’ve compromised on so much but still it’s not enough.

So he wants me to forgive all this hurt but still give up something I love whilst he keeps his gf on the side as if he ends things with her then he can’t have his kids overnight anymore - he told me that I would win every time over her.. but he didn’t come to me with anything - nothing to bring to the table - didn’t beg.. just set his demands that he wants me to do xyz.

I work at home in a cabin (salon) in my garden - I don’t leave the house unless it’s for a school run.. so I said to him I need to do it for my mental wellbeing - he justified other woman and new relationship (obvs affair) on his mental well being as he was going insane at his mums on his own.. but I can’t go to dance..

Said he wasn’t trying to hurt me - and I said how can you not see that keeping your gf on the side whilst we talk about things is hurtful in Itself let alone all the other $h!te!

[Nas]

I’m so sorry your baby has chickenpox, poor thing. I hope he’s on the mend.

I’m not going to tell you what to do and I try not to give advice on anything other than protecting oneself financially, but I do have to say that asking you to give up your dancing is such a massive red flag that in my opinion it really cannot be ignored. I try not to project my own situation onto others, but sometimes something resonates so strongly that I’m compelled to respond with my past in mind. I am speaking from experience. If you give up the dancing and he comes home, as you said, he will likely still have the AP on the side, and it will likely lead to a more extensive pattern of coercive control and manipulative guilt tripping that will happen in such a subtle way that you won’t even realize what’s happening at first. A man who is secure in himself and who respects and cares for you will encourage your independence and pursuit of your own passions and hobbies. A man who wants to control you, prove his “manhood” and/or feels entitled will feed you a bull$h!te line about your hobby taking away from family time in an effort to guilt you into essentially isolating and losing yourself under the guise of being a “good wife and mother.”

I wouldn’t even have any advice on how to suggest a compromise because in my experience, the man who would make this kind of demand doesn’t do compromise. I just really wanted to chime in to say that from an outside perspective, the red flag is glaringly RED and you have every right to have cause for concern. Now is the time to ask yourself what kind of man he really is, if you think that he has the potential to change, how that change might happen, and whether or not you will be able to have the safe, fulfilling life that you deserve with him in it as he is.

I’m hesitant to add, but I’m going to anyway, that the buying you flowers and planning outings is to me more manipulative than anything else. I know it’s hard when you really want to see change, but I would err on the side of caution with everything he says and does because it seems more than likely that it is to benefit himself in someway. I’m sorry to provide such a negative bent, but experience has taught me a thing or two. If nothing else else, just keep this all in the back of your mind…

[Hollie220423]

Oh I completely agree with you. I’ve stood up to him and told him that him asking me to give it up isn’t love and that it’s control and that I can’t and will not do it - even the compromises that I’ve put in place aren’t enough - nothing will be - when he said he doesn’t want to come home to anyone other than me - I felt suffocated straight away and I won’t ignore those feelings anymore.

Now I’m just feeling immense anger - the baby doesn’t sleep at night I’ve been awake for nearly 5 hours on and off with my toddler coming in between with a nose bleed and wet the bed. I literally am on my knees whilst he’s off living his best life with his new gf getting full nights sleep, days out when he wants. Eating his dinner warm, getting a shower. I have nowhere to get rid of it.

Everyone keeps saying to me how they will come and help but the truth is no1 does - no1 will come and help me in the night. I’m just expected to keep showing up everyday surviving on no sleep, putting on a brave face for my kids dealing with all his $h!te.

He isn’t going to change and gradually over the last few years has been controlling me anyway cutting me off slowly from the outside world and I think that’s still why he won’t have the baby as when I’m with the baby he knows I’m not gonna be doing anything else.

I mentioned that my solicitor would be contacting him about the next steps in the divorce she’s good and is starting to do things to protect me since he filed and he told me that he is doing the divorce himself and it’s got nothing to do with my solicitor! So no need for her to contact him 😂😂😂

Just wish I didn’t see the good in him still and who he was not who he is now

[Treasur]

Poor you, you must be feel exhausted, I’m so sorry. Can’t imagine how hard it must feel right now to be one vaguely standing adult with three small humans. Any local mum’s groups where you live? They may not be able to bail you out in the middle of the night but as we know from here it can make a big difference to kvetch and roll your eyes and even chuckle with people who know what it’s like to be you 

And way too exhausted to deal with your h’s nonsense. 

Have you heard of DARVO? Worth a Google if not. It’s what disordered folks do to try to control the narrative….essentially it’s about distraction. Bit like how a teenager asked to tidy their room throws a tantrum saying ‘you’re so unreasonable and you didn’t let me go to the party last weekend and…and…’. So you get sucked into an argument which is about anything BUT the pigsty of a room 
This is your h right now imho.

Keep it simple.
It’s not about Lapland or dancing.
There is no relationship conversation to be had with you until there is no OW. Simple. Full stop. No family trips. No shared walks. No future shared plans or discussions about what he wants from you. Nada. Just a visitation schedule following your lawyers advice. No R conversations at all bc, while ow is in the mix, there is no available marital relationship with you to discuss. Simple.

And if he chooses not to retain a lawyer, well that’s his choice….whats that saying about a person acting as their own lawyer having a fool for a client? Not your circus. Inform your lawyer, give him/her his contact details and take their advice on how/if you can use that to your advantage. And perhaps reflect on the pros and cons from your pov about moving slowly legally vs moving quickly - in so far as you can control that. Recognise that few of us do our best quality thinking when we are as exhausted as you feel right now, so it’s worth giving yourself time to breathe a bit. And, if you can, get out of that cabin for 45 minutes each day for a walk or a bit of yoga or just to smell the flowers….like a virtual lunch break…even a Power Nap lol.

I don’t know if your h was always this entitled and given to avoiding accountability for his own actions and making demands. But he is now. It’s very MLCish, of course. We usually say here that if you feel confused, they are still cooking in the MLC oven so time to close the oven door and go do something else with your time. At a basic level, the underlying principle of most faith’s take on forgiveness or reconciliation tends to involve the person stops doing the bad thing they want forgiveness for as a kind of starting point before all that remorse, forgiveness and redemption stuff etc etc…. ::…..your h is not even at the starting gate, is he? He wants forgiveness and a list of demands to be met by you while he just carries on much the same based on what you say. So, no point letting any of that suck up your precious time and energy imho. If he gets to that point, you’ll know and you can decide what you feel about what he is bringing to the table then. Until then, it just sounds as if you see that it is mindf**kery and more of the same. That’s sad, as you say, but I think it’s pretty clear to you, isn’t it?

On a practical level, it sounds as if you might have two short term priorities?

Taking care of your own basic wellbeing needs…sleep, energy, good company that fills you up instead of draining you. My suggestion would be to try to do one thing every day, no matter how small, that feeds at least one of those needs a little.
Make a plan for the coming week. Ask a friend or friends to help….i have sometimes found that even a short phone call with a faraway friend can improve my day, and that people come up with some great ideas when you ask for help.

The second is to minimise your time and energy in the Mystical Land of F**kwittery. Bc it takes energy that you do not currently have spare. I’m sure you are right that he is using the baby as a gateway to you….talk to your lawyer about his/her suggestions on what you might do to minimise that. And do not take even a shred of responsibility that he has chosen to move out to a place where he cannot take care of his own children independently in his visitation time….thats not your circus either. Not your mess to tidy up for him. Let him figure it out like a real grown up while you do on,y what you are legally required to do. No more, no less.

It may be the case, at least for a little while, that the only way to avoid the Land of F**kwittery is to minimise contact with the F**kwit. To hand over the kids on the doorstep and shut the door. Or leave him with the kids and physically go out somewhere else. There are probably also some ways in which you can learn some new tips and tricks for shutting down conversations you don’t want to have or politely hmming your way past them without getting pulled in. Cool, bummer, wow responses. Pretty much the way you’d respond if you find yourself sitting next to a very boring person talking at you about stamp collecting at a swanky dinner or in a seat beside a crazy person wearing a tinfoil hat on a train.  Hmmm, shrug, minimise eye contact, be busy with something else, say very little. If you read about DARVO, you will also find some techniques for how to deal with it….things like grey rock. It can take a little practice but once you get the hang of it, it gets easier to do. And tbh it really helps you to climb off someone else’s emotional rollercoaster. Idk if you have an IC, a wise friend or a coach who might help you get the hang of shifting some of your own behaviour like that, but if not, it might be worth thinking about it as a short term investment in your own wellbeing….no different really from how you teach and coach dancers who can a,ready dance to a certain level but need a fresh external eye on some of their technique.

I don’t know if you are interested in standing, or open to it as an outside option, or if you think that you are just not sure. Or too tired to even think about it lol. What I can see is that you do not want this version of a husband and that you can see clearly that if you did what he wants, that’s exactly what you’d get. Removing yourself from the Land of F**kwittery gives him the opportunity - if he chooses to take it - to wrestle with his own monkeys and consequences, and decide if he wants to move out of that land too. If he does, you can look at what’s left. If he doesn’t, well you and your kids are no worse off and you can carry on enjoying a new different life you make for yourself in the Land of….what do you want to call it? Niceness? Yum? Peace? Bounce? Pick a name that works for you 

No kids here, just a cat diva, but I do remember days past in my own situation where I  felt so emotionally and physically exhausted that buying coffee felt like climbing Everest. So what I do know from over here in the cheap seats is that two things are true….it will not always feel how it feels right now and that small things help way more than you imagine they might bc they have a compound effect like saving a dollar in a jar every day. So, do that. Plus, from your posts so far, Hollie, and from the tyoe of dance you do, it is so obvious to me that you are a bit of a bada$$ when you need to be, that you have a bedrock of strength and that you can do big joy. These things are your superpowers and will be easier to use when you are no longer spending much time in the Land of F**kwittery 

[KayDee]

Hollie, just quickly - if you are in the UK, check out Home-Start, they are a charity that support young families and all their services are free.

[Hollie220423]

Gosh. I guess this shouldn’t affect me I feel like I’ve been doing really well with detachment since my last post and him messing me around based on all the good advice you all gave me.

He decided to take the baby to meet her last week without telling me that he was definitely taking him. So took me completely off guard - now the kids have told me that they have booked to go somewhere on holiday all together that we used to go to as a family all together - in the summer holidays - he would never let us go then as it was too expensive.. yet if he goes with her and the kids to our family place that we made the best memories in and is a family tradition of mine that we did as kids - but with her!? Like Wtaf is he trying to hurt me - he said as he thought it was the same place Center parcs but in a different destination it would be ok..?

I’m trying so hard to not be upset by it. Just so insensitive and thoughtless I want to go mental at him! But just made a comment making him aware I know - I’m so tired of remaining silent on all this stuff for the greater good etc.


 

[Reinventing]

Many have seen the MLCer go to places with OW that they went to together. That aspect is so weird to me. If a person wants this new life, then why do things the same as before?

I have wondered if it is OW wanting to make their imprint. But who knows. It's so messed up.

[Treasur]

Not sure why so many do some version of this, but it is quite common. A lack of imagination? A lack of effort bc the LBS always did the adult planning? Treating people as replaceable objects you can swop in and out? A vague recollection of being happy when the old we did x or y, so a feeling in the back of the brain that a new we will be happy there too? A bit of OW dogs metaphorically peeing on the family gate? Idk. But it is common. And that means logically that it isn’t much about you at all even if it feels very personal.

Feel how you feel. But I’d suggest you simply don’t waste your breath on telling him how you feel or expecting him to not lie. Pearls before swine, dear girl, instead I’d focus on the positive….that your kids will get to go back to a place they liked and will hopefully have fun there despite the situation. How long will they be away for? Will the baby stay with you?

[Hollie220423]

He hasn’t said yet they have a week with him he asked me if he can take the baby - he will be one by then but wasn’t sure if he would settle etc - part of me doesn’t want to let him go but then at the same time I want him to experience the reality of having three kids - all the carnage that does go with it and for her to experience the life of mine that she desperately wants.

I do think she is marking her territory- but it’s wild to me with someone else husband and their kids.. playing mummy’s and daddy’s - sorry you can prob sense I’m so cross - I feel like she has just stepped into my life! Maybe as you say I should take it as a compliment that he obviously used to enjoy our times there.. and I did used to plan everything and arrange everything whilst we were there all the stuff to pack - he will have to do that as she will have no idea..

It’s all just so unfair this whole scenario. He never has to have time on his own - he has her.. I am so bloody lonely and have no one to share my time with when I don’t have my kids the hole I feel when they gone it’s horrible and not one I’m getting used to. 😓

[KayDee]

Oh ditto to this situation. My H went with OW to a place we went every year for + 15 years. Then OW bombed the internet with happy clappy pictures of the dream vacation (these filtered through to me via mutual friends.) (Yes Dear Reader, I do ask not to know. I do not snoop). Treasur sums up the possible 'reasons' perfectly. In my case, my therapist thinks that it is likely OW wanting to erase memories of me, by overlaying herself in the picture. Multiple choice quiz - You meet a new person, and they suggest going to the same place they went with their wife every blinking year, forever. You say a) yes! great idea. Any chance I can I borrow your exWife's wardrobe too? B) Let's go somewhere new and and make our own new memories? So sorry Hollie. I know how much this hurts, but it is Act 2, scene 3 in various versions of MLC.

Regarding taking the baby away, maybe you can get some professional input on this. Prolonged periods away from the primary care giver at this age can be traumatic for babies. Unless, of course, he has bonded with your H?

Can you plan some nice things for when he's away? Even small treats?

[Hollie220423]

Oh ditto to this situation. My H went with OW to a place we went every year for + 15 years. Then OW bombed the internet with happy clappy pictures of the dream vacation (these filtered through to me via mutual friends.) (Yes Dear Reader, I do ask not to know. I do not snoop). Treasur sums up the possible 'reasons' perfectly. In my case, my therapist thinks that it is likely OW wanting to erase memories of me, by overlaying herself in the picture. Multiple choice quiz - You meet a new person, and they suggest going to the same place they went with their wife every blinking year, forever. You say a) yes! great idea. Any chance I can I borrow your exWife's wardrobe too? B) Let's go somewhere new and and make our own new memories? So sorry Hollie. I know how much this hurts, but it is Act 2, scene 3 in various versions of MLC.

Regarding taking the baby away, maybe you can get some professional input on this. Prolonged periods away from the primary care giver at this age can be traumatic for babies. Unless, of course, he has bonded with your H?

Can you plan some nice things for when he's away? Even small treats?

lol I would be the same don’t want to see anything but I’m sure someone would think I would want to see it and send it to me! I’m completely off his socials he deleted every trace there is of me - but I made my profile public - she will want to see im
Sure - so she can have a look at the year before he left where he was so desperately unhappy and see that we did nice things even a holiday to this place I’m
Talking about in the feb - when he left in the April!

The comment of the wardrobe killed me - maybe he’s hoping that she will erase the memories too I guess.. but the whole time he is there he will be thinking of me and our time there together.. as you can’t not.. I’ve been once without him and it was awful.

I’ll be ok in a day or so I just hate how silly things can knock you off course. I’m trying to focus on myself eat better and exersise etc it’s just hard with a small baby.

Mental how only two/three weeks ago he was telling me that I would win over her anytime and that I should forget her as she’s only been around a few months.. now he’s booking holidays to our special family place - the words I could use..  to all of them for thinking this is ok! Guess just shows how deluded they are

[KayDee]

Well, I'm glad I made you laugh. If it wasn't all so devastating, for everyone concerned, it would be more laugh out loud funny at times. This so-called relationship with OW, it is built on sand.

But these are not silly things at all. Being 'erased' in a matter of months and replaced by someone like OW (no need to slag her off, she does the job herself through her actions) by someone you trusted with your life. No, that's is deeply traumatic. His actions are psychologically unstable, but this knowledge only goes so far, because you are still suffering the effects. But these are his actions not yours. You go to bed with a clean conscience. You and your kids do not, on any level, deserve this. It is not your fault.

[Nas]

Hollie, I can’t imagine how hard this is to go through with such a young baby on top of everything else. I think it adds layers upon layers to something that is already so layered. My heart really goes out to you.

I just wanted to mention a few things about the erasure and redoing and the OW. I have never written much about all the horrific ways that I’ve felt erased and written over over the years that my husband has been with his new girlfriend. (Just one vile example, they got a new puppy, same breed as the dog we had together, and named it after the baby I miscarried years ago. This information always seem to find its way to me and it ripped me apart, every time.)

I know it’s early on for you and this is like one hit after another. I would say, as much as you can, try not to figure out the why of anything. And I know it’s not my place to say, but I would even suggest that you don’t make your social media public in the hopes that she will see it. By spending time wondering whether or not she is orchestrating the trip to the family vacation place and opening up your social media for her to see that you guys just went there, you are in advertently triangulating yourself. I don’t think that these APs have as much power as we sometimes give them early on when we are trying to figure out what the hell is happening. But the one thing you do know is that your husband and the father of your children is behaving in a way that is completely disordered, completely cruel, and completely disrespectful to you. I would focus on that, because giving her all that power that she is pulling the strings is taking away accountability from him. And again, placing yourself in a triangle you don’t need to be in.
I can’t remember if you’ve already sought legal advice and talked to anyone about custody and visitation matters? Because I do agree with KayDee about the baby being away from you for a considerable amount of tume, Not to mention, these are your children going away with and possibly spending time alone with another adults that you have never met. It is within your right to seek counsel on this and see what your legal rights are.

This is really hard and devastating and I am so sorry you’re going through it.

[Hollie220423]

Oh my goodness Nas, I cannot believe they did that with the dog! Just disgusting behaviour I don’t understand how some People can treat other human beings like this - but someone did say to me it’s good that I don’t understand because that says more about me and my moral compass I don’t understand because I could never do it to someone.

I have for a solicitor and I will be talking to her about this and the baby in terms of holidays and overnights etc - he just told me that I need to just trust his judgment that she’s a good person.. like I will ever trust a word that falls out of his mouth again the lies and the deception are just insane.

I’m trying to not let it effect my peace it’s just so difficult at times - I mean I have been back to the place spoken about since he left one because it was already booked before he left for my mums 60th and then again on a few day passes but the difference is I’m doing it alone with the kids not with my replacement - who I’m expected to believe is a lovely person and stable etc, is good with my kids etc - who has been more than happy to have a relationship with a married man who was expecting a baby..? And then continue and keep that family apart and deny the baby a chance - (not saying it’s all her) he has chosen this and is fully to blame but she has a accepted it I know if I was 28 and he came along with all this baggage and whatever story he is spinning I would run a mile! 

[titleholder]

My gosh Hollie.. This is incredibly hard. It's good that you're going to talk to a sollicitor! You're right the fact that she made a move on a married man with a pregnant wife speaks volumes about what kind of character she has. Plus the fact that they both don't take any of your feelings into account says enough. After the destruction of your marriage they go on about their day as if nothing has happenend.

My xH OW is also crazy woman, but luckily the only sense my xH has is that he refuses for her to meet our D and I don't think she wants to. She has a lot of issues and their relationship goes up and down like crazy. So I'm happy that my D doesn't have to witness this. I also find it crazy that you can be in a relationship for 2 years and you don't want to share something as important as your D with that person. But for now I'm just really lucky he doesn't.

 I'm two years post BD and I'm at the point where I'm okay with the fact that if he does meet a stable woman I accept that she's going to be in my D's life. I'm just really hoping that this isn't going to be affaire OW..

[Nas]

Oh my goodness Nas, I cannot believe they did that with the dog! Just disgusting behaviour I don’t understand how some People can treat other human beings like this -

It was really hard to hear and I had to take a little time to process my feelings about it, but that’s just my point, they really weren’t treating me bad, or treating me any way at all. I was not a factor. I had nothing to do with it and it really really helped me to remember that: They weren’t doing it TO me. If the story I told myself was that they did what they did with a specific intent to harm me, that would only be me inserting myself into a story that I was not part of. … and prolonging my own pain. And honestly, I don’t want to be part of that story of toxic disorder.

 The good thing about time (and I’ve said before that I do not believe that time heals all, but time does give us distance and an opportunity to see more clearly, reevaluate and make changes for ourselves) is that eventually we get to choose to write ourselves out of the dysfunctional story. So eventually, rather than seeing it as them rewriting our lives with someone new, we can write our own version where we understand that even though it seems so incredibly personal, their story is all about them and not about us. At first that hurts because we want to be part of their story. We were supposed to be a major part of their story, we were supposed to be there for the rest of their lives. With detachment comes the opportunity to take ourselves out of the story based in conjecture and fictional answers to all the “why” questions and into the reality of only what is right in front of us. I know that doesn’t sound appealing now, but it will be what helps you heal. It gets extremely exhausting trying to create answers to questions that have no answers, and you deserve peace.

[UrsaMajor]

he just told me that I need to just trust his judgment that she’s a good person..

[MadLuv]

The MLCer swap out on things is always mind boggling, but they do it. I planned a 30th anniversary vacation and my XH took OW and got engaged on my planned vacation spot. I think when they are in throws of Limerance they honestly don’t think much about us, truly.  I can remember asking my XH after finding out about him being in a EA with a coworker friend of ours , did you think about me at all? He said, no.

They are filling a need they feel driven to do and that is all that matters in these times. It’s hard for us to fathom, but I don’t think we enter into their thoughts much. They are escaping their old life, so honestly it makes sense. Even, if it is going to familiar places. They enjoyed it, so new OW/OM will enjoy it.

I do think there can be triggers that we enter into a moment, but overall they are just in a self serving place. I do know my XH told me they were on a hike once and he saw something and he thought, madluv would love that. I just think those are far and few in between  when in the beginning of these relationships.

I also can’t imagine how hard this is with small children. Adult children and a grandson are hard to navigate, but in the early days I could do whatever I wanted for my sanity and you are always looking after young lives who need you. You need someone to take care of you and for you to share your stressors. It’s very hard. I have so much compassion for you.

[Hollie220423]

It really is a wild ride - today he decided to text me and let me know about that holiday and said obviously the boys have already told you - then decided to drop in the fact that the OW has paid for them to go to Mexico at the end of May and it falls on the weekend he should have the kids - so can he swap for the weekend before.

I have plans on both weekends the one that I have my kids for the weekend and then the one after where it’s technically my weekend off - he’s decided to just book a holiday and then ask me..?

I’m Furious I’ve got a good mind to tell him that he needs to sort childcare for that weekend! Why should it be up to me.. if he had the courtesy to ask me beforehand it wouldn’t be a problem - it just shows that they are playing - she has no idea about the responsibility of having children otherwise they would of scheduled it around the kids.

Funnily enough, the dates are around the time last year where I know he was away with who he said was his friend.. but I since found  out he wasnt (again someone decided to tell me) so I think it’s an anniversary holiday - I know it doesn’t matter it’s just stinging!

Two weeks previous to this holiday we would have been celebrating 10 years of marriage and had planned to go away ourselves this year to celebrate.

I hate how robbed I feel.. I hope this eases in time 😪

[forthetrees]

You could just say that you have already made plans based on the pre-arranged custody schedule and that you´re sure he´ll understand. My worry would be that the feeling of being a chump for helping them have their romantic get-away would eat away at you, so as to preserve your equilibrium you won´t trade so that you can maintain your sanity- as much as one can in the circumstances. It may look like to them like you being difficult but they are not thinking at all about you and your situation, plans or feelings. You´d actually be doing him a favor to decline as he would learn to plan ahead.

[Hollie220423]

You could just say that you have already made plans based on the pre-arranged custody schedule and that you´re sure he´ll understand. My worry would be that the feeling of being a chump for helping them have their romantic get-away would eat away at you, so as to preserve your equilibrium you won´t trade so that you can maintain your sanity- as much as one can in the circumstances. It may look like to them like you being difficult but they are not thinking at all about you and your situation, plans or feelings. You´d actually be doing him a favor to decline as he would learn to plan ahead.

This is my thinking because if I try and communicate a boundary to him he just get on the defensive and Is rude or nasty to me so this way it sets a boundary silently - next time think about it!! Out of courtesy more than anything, I’m also not replying until the week - he always sends me messages when it’s my weekends and it ends up upsetting me when dealing with the kids etc it’s not fair on them so I’m gonna set coms Monday - Friday only unless an emergency

[UrsaMajor]

You could just say that you have already made plans based on the pre-arranged custody schedule and that you´re sure he´ll understand.

Exactly. You already have plans that were made based on the already agreed-upon schedule..... If he wants to change that, he needs to plan ahead with you involved.

You´d actually be doing him a favor to decline as he would learn to plan ahead.

As if.....
It does, however, establish a good boundary that he needs to communicate in advance if he wants to change things.... Which does mean planning ahead in the end  but ... you know.... those mean old consequences.....