[KayDee]

Hi Treasur,

I am doing OK ish. With a flash of practical energy, I have done my own banking strategy (set up a new account) and have finally got to thinking about how to keep financially afloat. My H has taken a new lease on an apartment (without, of course, conferring with me) and now wants to meet to discuss the fact that he can't really fully contribute to our existing mortgage. It is curious, isn't it, how someone who was just managing to pay one household, decides to add another. I suspect he wants me to figure it out - he is already using terms that relate to 'his' financial situation, as if we don't have shared commitments. And actually, when married, all our assets and income are still shared. Of course, I know now about the selfishness, and I have to now act and move forward as if he cannot/will not help.

The issue of terms - I agree about being 'left in the rubble', or at least, I suppose it is rubble to begin with, until we make things our own again. But yes, that feeling of being in the last chapter, as the MLC enters a 'new chapter' - maybe this chapter is the magical thinking dream chapter, or the prologue for the teenage years?  I guess, personally, the term LBS sort of jars with me - I don't want to feel like a victim (although I know I have had a horrible and uncalled for thing done to me). This said, I do completely take everyone's point, and it certainly is not good to be in competition about any of this.

Ill versus bad? Yes, that the zone I buffer in. Feeling supremely angry at his behaviour and then honestly feeling sad for him. My instinct is, he subconsciously choose between having a full break down or escaping into the fog. He chose the latter, and when I am less kind, I find that weak. If this was a house on fire, he chose to save himself and left me to the burn.

Question: my H seems so definite that he has made the right decision. Definite that we have no future. This is still hard for me to get my head around. Is this kind of super black and white, seemingly decisive (from someone who was previously more of a prevaricator / avoider of conflict) par for the course?

[KayDee]

I just sent a long reply but it seems to have vanished!

[KayDee]

Ah, page 2 

[OffRoad]

Interesting. Living better spouse to me means I am living better now than when I was being gaslighted before BD and has nothing to do with competition.

Amazing how words on paper/screens can have different meanings to people. I had no intention of offering up being subjected to MLC as any kind of competition because there are no real winners here.(and I mean that in the fresh out of the gate way)

[Ready2Transform]

Question: my H seems so definite that he has made the right decision. Definite that we have no future. This is still hard for me to get my head around. Is this kind of super black and white, seemingly decisive (from someone who was previously more of a prevaricator / avoider of conflict) par for the course?

Absolutely right on track for MLC.

On the joint bills becoming "yours" - that's a real mind freak I remember. Mine was even so daft, he sat across the kitchen table from me one day while we had one of our frequent "coffee talks" (he was a clinger for the first year, for sure) saying, "Don't worry, I know I am going to have to pay my own bills (referencing getting his own place when he moved out of his mother's basement), and that's a hard pill to swallow."  Meanwhile he was ignoring "his own bills" that I was paying at our home, that included his car insurance, his cellphone, his credit card, and his insurance licenses, as well as our joint bills and debts he'd run up on my cards. I don't think that was gaslighting - he really had just quantum leaped back to being a carefree teen, as though our life hadn't happened and he was visiting "my" house. It used to unsettle me like nothing else (even worse than the OW situation). But it's the kind of broken thinking that is common with this situation.

[KayDee]

Hi everyone, I find myself a little in doubt, and I could do with some insight. I posted my first post here (sorry, I don't know how to cut and paste it).

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11981.0

Since this time, my H has found a new apartment with his EA (she is gay, so it really is an EA). She has just walked out on her wife and I am told by a mutual friend the relationship between her and H is indulgent and unhealthy, a kind of bonding through break up. I have not seen similar EAs of a platonic nature mentioned here on the forum and wonder if anyone else has a similar experience. Whenever I communicate with my H, I hear her voice, this new, direct and firm voice. It almost feels scripted.

Returning to my thread title, this is the thing that is causing me some doubt. H seems so reasonable about finances and is still contributing to our house finances without dispute. So much so, I am starting to doubt mental health / MLC disturbance. He even agreed to pay longer than I was expecting before a review. I have read so much here about MLCs burning through cash etc. This is seemingly not the case with my H. On the other hand, he has become quite legalese (when he never was before), focused on the value of the house, and protecting his stuff and so forth. I feel like he wants to fast-track selling the house (it's only been 6 or 7 weeks). On the other hand, he does have the 100 yard stare, and the focus is still completely on his needs.

A brief summary, married 20 years, no major issues, extremely close right up to BD. 

Any insights from you wise souls would really help rest my mind.

[Biscuit]

 Kaydee,

I’m pretty new to this but my W is being totally fine about finances, the house etc. She’s not burning through cash as far as I can tell.
But she is exhibiting so many of the MLC common traits otherwise.

One of the old firm maybe able to answer your question better?

[Treasur]

Well, as I read it, it seems that you feel ‘doubt’ bc he is not behaving worse? What’s the doubt about, kayDee? That if he isn’t MLC, then....he must be right in what he says about your ‘neglect’? Or that he/it won’t get ‘better’ and your marriage is over? Or that if you don’t excuse/explain some of his behaviour as MLC, you might change your POV on him as a person or your marriage? No right answers....but you might find it helpful to muse on the benefits and disadvantages to you currently of using the MLC frame. Bc most of us tussled with it for a bit and of course in RL people tend to see it differently unless they have experienced something similar.

From the cheap seats though, i’m going to remind you of some factual stuff.
The most important imho is that you are only a couple of months into this. As is he. Why does that matter? Bc you are still in shock to some degree and trying to find your feet in this new not very normal for you new normal. Hard to do our best clearest thinking then.  ...plus it is an unfolding picture bc there are things you don’t know yet. And he is in that early stage of running away to find his ‘magic happy’ when his new life will be full of shiny easy adoration lol but not yet at the point when RL consequences start to unfold.....Monster and Really Bonkers imho tend to show up when entirely predictable adult consequences show up. Or when the LBS (or lawyer’s or kids or bank accounts or OP) start saying No to things they want....

There are lots of things that would have shocked me in the past that no longer shock me. A gay EA? Or one that suddenly becomes bisexual? Or turns out to be an enabling friend of an unknown OW in some weird triangle? Or someone to take drugs or drink with?  Entirely possible in MLC land. Most LBS here learned things about their spouses’ behaviour as events unfolded that they never would have imagined in their wildest dreams....it’s common that this situation brings a series of aftershocks tbh as the universe has a way of uncovering deceit. And all MLCers lie like Olympic level lying athletes.....and will have been lying longer than you realised....all that changes is how much and what about. We’re conditioned, I think, to see an EA or PA as about us, as some kind of marital failure, but tbh it really is a symptom not a cause. And the nature of their interactions with other people is rarely as important in the overall picture as we think it is (although it may be emotionally very important to us, of course). Imho ow/om seem to offer some mix of two things....an enabling escape hatch and/or a big dollop of justifying cheerleading attention....

What does imho matter is your instinct about sensing a third party voice (and agenda) in your interactions with your h. Trust that instinct. And of course that this third party does not have your interests in their mind but their own, whatever those turn out to be. So it is sensible to assume that whenever you communicate with your h, you are also dealing with this third party and should adapt your expectations accordingly as you think best.

You are just weeks into this insanity, my friend. It’s normal to try to pin down some clarity or certainty amidst the chaos. We all did. What most of us find is that it isn’t so easy to do in that chaos...and that we have to learn to turn our eye away from our spouse in order to find pockets of it. To focus on the factual realities, awful as they might be, rather than trying to guess at whys and what next. And that takes time.

What do I mean by factual realities? Your h is living elsewhere with someone else. He is behaving as if his money is his money, his stuff is his stuff. He is keener than a keen thing to sell the house. He only cares about his needs and wants; yours are irrelevant and get the blank stare response like no one is home. There is no We in his head, only a Me. Well, there is a We that he blames, i’d guess, bc in his story, he’s the victim not the do-er. And, for whatever reason, MLC or not, he HAS chosen to metaphorically burn the house down with you in it. These are far from easy current realities to swallow, we know, truly we know, but safeguarding your own present and future wellbeing requires that you do.

There will be time enough for you to figure out what kind of story this is as things unfold, my friend. And tbh, if it is an MLC story, it will get worse and crazier before it gets better. And it will get better, for you, when you find your own solid ground that is not linked to his unstable ground. Whatever that looks like. But my word, it truly is such early days, it would be almost weird if you were able to do that yet. But you will, I promise you will.

[KayDee]

Hello Tresur,

Thank you so much for such a considered and thought provoking reply. I hope it is also of use to Biscuit (thank you also B for your reply) who is in a similar time frame to me.

Your initial question - probably all of the above Even though I know, in my heart, that the relationship was not broken, and this has been reflected back so many times via mutual friends and also close family, it still grabs you by the throat sometimes - that you were not loved in the way you thought you were, that somehow you are defective. The switch from the old him to the new one was in a heartbeat. He went from declaring his love and commitment to the relationship (the full, recognisable, emotional him) to announcing 'the end' with a cold script, just 12 hours later (after visiting with the EA). And I suppose that's part of the personal reflection for me, to get to a point where I can disaggregate the new H from the old. Because, if he is not in some sort of mental turmoil, if he has not shut down his emotional self and entered the fog, then it feels like the person I thought I was in a relationship was a kind of chimera. It really undermines everything. And as I type that, I know that this must be common to many of us here. Someone else once wrote (was it you Treasur?) that when they reflect back on memories that involve their H, their H is a kind of greyed out silhouette. That's currently where I am at.

I do try to look objectively at his behaviour - the observable facts of now - and you spell them out perfectly, and I thank you for grounding me in the timeline - it is very early, and as much as I hate the idea, from everything I have read, MLC is the gift that keeps on giving.

Having read so many comments on this forum (gratitude to everyone for sharing what is so painful, to help others in the same spot), I have tried to be calm and kind to my H. I manage the first part - calm. But in all other ways, it bothers me a little that I end up being a bit like him - cold and unemotional. Or perhaps formal is a better way to describe it. It's bothers me, because although I am intent on moving on because I really can't see a way back from the damage he has caused, I am open to leaving a thread, or path, between us - for use if he should ever come out of this crisis. But I just don't know how to do it. I think, like the silhouette memory, this remove I have adopted is self protection. Because the other factual is that he is the person who has hurt me the most - ever.

For now, I have gone no contact (he has agreed to this) and will be so for a few months. I realised quite quickly that the anticipation of communication from him left me on edge all the time. Without it, I started to be able to focus and revive a little. Fingers crossed for this, I really want to see friends and NOT talk about my situation all the blinking time

[Treasur]

You really are doing tremendously well, my friend, for so early in. It may not feel like that to you so it can be useful to be reminded of it 

Calm is good (for you. Kind at this stage is imho not necessary....not being a vindictive a$$hat is quite sufficient.  Not bc of any effect on him....I really can’t emphasise enough how little they are affected by what we do, say or feel at this stage, bizarre as that seems, or how they can twist the smallest of things to fit their own story whatever that is......but bc it will matter over time that you feel as if you stayed close to your own values and standards of behaviour regardless of what others do.  That, as my gran used to say, you do not get sucked into playing in the mud with pigs bc they like it and are better at it than you  So, behave as you see fit because it feels right to YOU. Again, it just takes a little time to unhook from our old habits of paying attention to what they think one way or the other. A certain level of idk numbness, distance, formality is common too....which can be a bit frightening bc it can feel like another loss in a way....and again tbh those feelings evolve over time too. Xyzcf often reminds us that how we choose to act at a given time is not fixed in stone....it’s ok to give yourself permission to do what seems best for you right now and also accept that you might make different choices at a different time. (And a PS....you don’t need his agreement to be NC, or limited contact. That is entirely within your control and you don’t have to justify or explain it to him either. If he doesn’t like it? Well, tough luck he’s having as it’s a pretty normal response to his choices, right? Choices he gave you no vote or voice in. And agreements with MLC folks tend not to be worth much.....if he has a feelz or a sadz or wants something from you, he will most likely ignore it. Which is why it’s worth seeing it as YOUR choice and a boundary for you rather than some kind of mutual agreement that is conditional on him still agreeing to it if that makes sense)

It sounds weird - but fortunately not here  - to say that, all these years on, I honestly don’t know that I actually know his half of the bit of my life that involved him. It took me a very long time to learn to make peace with ‘I don’t know’. I do know that it felt real to me, that I would have bet my life and my last pound on me mattering to my then h as much as he mattered to me. I do know that he did things that were unimaginable to me and that, in a strange way, the fact that I could never quite ‘get’ it said nothing more profound than my head and spirit are just not wired that way. Which seems to me to be a blessing  I probably on balance think that what I thought was true WAS true....but not the whole truth if that makes sense. But I also accept that, if push came to shove, I don’t know and will likely never know. So I decided to sidle towards something that felt Truthy enough for me.....  ....and that did not damage me more than I had already been damaged by blaming myself for things that were not my responsibility or bc of my choices based on what I (and everyone else lol) believed I knew at the time.

I think all LBS struggle with this and each of us finds our own conclusion, normally after some swinging from one end of the pendulum to the other, that feels as close to our sense of the truth as we can live with in some degree of peace.. And that takes time and winnowing too imho. It will come and it isn’t the kind of pressing priority that it probably feels like it is right now. It’s a bit like wanting to speak fluent Italian after your first lesson  ....you can trust you’ll get there when you’re ready to get there. Urea Major has this great expression about shooting the wolf closer to your sled...that’s where you are right now....and sometimes the noisiest Wolf in your head is not actually the one closest to the RL sled at a given moment.