[KayDee]

Wow, that's such a great reply Treasur, thank you. It's sad that you did not get any kind of clear 'explanation' (I know that's not quite the right word, but you understand) and I suppose an apology is too much to ask. Looking at your timeline, it would seem that your H should be out of the otherside by now, but perhaps confronting the damage, reflecting on what he did to others - maybe that is too much for his fragile self to bear. But I hope it comes one day. This weakness is the polar opposite to your strength in coming to terms with his actions, owning your own memories and understanding of the relationship. It is inspiring.

My H has always had very low self-esteem (this seems to be a recurring theme on this forum) and there's some pretty dysfunctional FOO. I guess if you don't have low self esteem, it can be quite hard to understand. Because, although over the years, he said some quite devastating things about his sense of self (he was not complete, he was broken etc), I always thought he was adding a touch of drama. I couldn't see/feel it I suppose, because he seemed so solid and loving, confident in social groups, talented etc. But he did tend to adopt different personas with different groups of people (when I asked about this, he said that it was with me that he was his 'true' self). He was always very brittle about any form of rejection (imagine the amount of rejections you get as a writer!) and avoided confrontation. When push comes to shove, he dissassociates. Throughout our relationship, he was always a bit directionless, and it tended to be me that maintained friendships and arranged shared activity etc. I picked him up a lot, and supported him to grow in his career, which ironically he has done, only to b*gger off. I intuite that through his recent depression his self-esteem got so low that he could not bear how he saw himself through my eyes (not good English - I think he did not feel 'looked up to' / honoured by me) - this is not true, of course. I am not making excuses, these are his issues, but I do think that, perversely, our closesness (all the things we knew about each other) was one of the things he could not bear. That and my success in balance with what he feels he has achieved (and how he achieved it). I was a bad mirror and now he has a 'good' mirror   And a new group of younger friends, having jettisoned all long-standing mutual friends. It all seems a bit of a house of cards. It's been interesting to me, that pretty much all mutual friends have said (unprompted by me) that I am their main friend / person they know the best. It surprised me that my H did not really share intimacies with our friends, and this prevented a deeper closeness I suppose.

Thanks for re-empowering me regarding the 'no contact' issue. Actually, I told him this is what I want. I wanted to make that clear, because otherwise I would still get messages from him. And the idea of the message was often worse than the message. Here's to air silence!

[Treasur]

I can’t recall how much I shared on HS about my former h, but I could have pretty much written word for word what you wrote about your h.

Objectively speaking, I guess all that changed in my case was that I was my h’s safe/real person. Until I wasn’t. I believed that too. Until I didn’t. There were life events, true enough, but nothing fundamentally changed about who I was pre BD. What changed - and I can only speculate why - was how he saw me. And I suppose what he felt was an acceptable way (to him) to treat me after that. And I never ‘got’ that either. 

I have no idea if he has been successful in replacing ow for me in that role, or if he has moved forward to some kind of healing in himself. I do see it as not my job tbh....just as my healing was not his. Although that was easier when he stopped throwing metaphorical hand grenades at me, so NC was healthy for me. I found it hard to heal when I still felt as if I was under fire 

What I hope you are beginning to see....and will be able to remind yourself of when you forget lol...is that the seeds for whatever it was happened to my h were sown long before I met him. What caused him to see me in such a 180 degree way than he had was in him too. What made him find his way of dealing with that ok enough to do it the way that he did? That was in him too. None of it was created by me or bc of me. The same is most likely true in your situation too.

Which is why it was/is so impossible for me to understand and hard to accept. My only contribution really was to also believe that I was his safe/real person....that was my blind spot bc I simply had no life experience of what it was like to be him or have his FOO issues. Maybe that was my arrogance or just naivety. Still didn’t imho warrant what was done to me lol. But, having battled to survive PTSD - which was horrific in ways I can’t even describe - I suppose that gives me some respect and compassion for how very strange it is to suffer some kind of life-altering emotional crisis that is often not so easy for others to see and hard to put words to even when you are up to your neck in it. My compassion is still speculative, I suppose, bc again I honestly don’t know what my former h’s experience was. And it still does not mean it was ok to treat me as he did....partial explanation rather than excuse perhaps....but I found it easier to accept what happened if I didn’t hate him bc I had loved him too much for too long to want to do that. Makes no difference to him at all now but that mattered to me. And i’m entitled to make my own peace the best I can, right? 

[KayDee]

Hi Treasur, that's so interesting (or is it depressing that our experiences are so alike. I expect there are others out there too. I read a really good academic paper on exactly this. How people with childhood neglect are much more likely to have this kind of crisis in midlife. So, I think I am in step with you, and I have been saying this to friends etc - this crisis was always going to happen to him and if he hadnt have been married to me, it would have been someone else left in the burning embers. My H's mother is a nacissist - she dominates the family, and the issues with this over the years often became unbearable (he has still not accepted her personality disorder).

I'm struck by what you say about your H suddenly seeing you differently. I too did not change prior to BD, although my career was taking off again after the pandemic. I feel with my H there are parallels - his gripe was very much centred on how I 'treat' him - I think his emotional needs became so great, I was no longer the right person for the job (he pretty much said that to me - basically I cannot give him the attention he needs, or some such claptrap). Pretty much everything he said to me during his departure, is what he has wanted to say to his mother but can't. I still think he was on the precipice of a full breakdown, and he has regressed to a more adolescent mindset, but it doesn't change the appalling behaviour. And yes, maybe I was arrogant too, in thinking I could 'mend' the broken bits, and perhaps neglectful in not seeing how broken he actually was. But then, as you say, the seeds were long since sowed. And it's impossible to know what someone is thinking if they don't share. When people hate themselves, where do you start?

When you say recovering from PTSD, are you referring to the situation with your H? It has astonished me how traumatic this has been. In the first weeks I had all the classic signs of trauma, plus a strange rash lol - I still have dry mouth and an occasional lump in my throat, but at least now I can eat OK (I lost 14 pounds). I don't think people who have not been through it can appreciate the trauma. That said, all my friends and family have been great, so maybe they sense it.

[Treasur]

When you say recovering from PTSD, are you referring to the situation with your H?

Well, not exactly. My father had just died, then BD, then my mother developed dementia and declined very quickly, then I had cancer, then a couple of years of insane s$it including ‘anonymous’ death threats and uncovering a lot of financial losses followed by an MLC style divorce and relocation. No siblings, no kids and no family other than an aging Uncle who tried to do his best. I think the PTSD took a couple of years post-BD to unfurl looking back...I was just grieving, adrift, depressed and felt very alone before then 

But yes, some level of depression or anxiety is pretty common for LBS. And depending on the circumstances, a reasonable number of LBS seem to develop PTSD. In fact, a number of us here were formally diagnosed and received treatment for it. I have often said that if an LBS feels they need IC support, although they often look for someone who ‘gets’ MLC, it is wiser to look for someone who has experience of working with trauma even if they are not a trauma specialist.

Not uncommon either to have physical symptoms. And the LBS diet is a well known one here lol. I lost 3 stone in 3 months post BD....a smaller a$$ was a small recompense though  What are you doing to take care of your physical wellbeing and your nervous system? Different things work for different folks....walking and getting outside was a big help to me at my worst.

[Reinventing]

I was a bad mirror and now he has a 'good' mirror

Excellent way to describe OW.

And, yes, finding an individual counselor who understands trauma really helps.

I also needed to go NC so that I could heal. I recognized how damaging it was to me that he wanted me as his "friend" while also getting his "fix" with OW.

For me, healing and getting back my daily happy level became the most important thing. I needed to right my keel so that I didn't drown and so that I could weather the storm. I couldn't be attached to his crazy and right my keel at the same time.

I know that everyone is different, but what you said resonated with my journey. I wasn't mean. I split photos, sent important personal items to his attorney's office after the divorce, etc. But I was also business like about the divorce, which happened in 6 months. He left his job to be with OW and I didn't want to have to pay alimony since he was jobless and since I  took a job in an area of the country where salaries are naturally much higher.

Looking back, for me, there is little I would do different. I feel that I handled it with integrity. I healed as fast as I could. At first I was determined to heal so I could live through reconciliation--which thanks to this site I began to realize was no walk in the park--but later realized that it helped me just survive and, with time, heal.

The damage is so immense, I can only realize the extent now.

[KayDee]

Thanks Reinventing, it's reassuring to read your approach.

I guess formal was the best I could do - I am just not able to 'compartmentalise' my feelings that well, especially with people close to me. I can't pretend happy, when I am angry etc. So, yes, integrity is both important and essential. Typing that last part, I was trying to connect to what exactly I felt about my H when he last visited. I think I felt kind of repelled, in that I was in extreme defence mode. Like having been mugged and having the mugger in the room with you. I do not see him in the same way at the moment, but I understand that this will likely change over the coming period. For now, as with your journey, I need to right the ship, without the anticipation effect of having to dodge unexpected icebergs  I have not emotionally detached, I know that (and I know if I had after only 7 or 8 weeks that would be weird), but I am physically detaching, and I reckon that will help the former. I hope I have created some breathing space. And I have released myself from making any big decisions for the next few months. This is new to me - I live a little bit with a foot in the future, but accepting I don't know much at the moment, is surprisingly liberating

[Jo]

I'm 12 years out and 3 years into therapy. I'm a survivor, and can take the cold behaviors, actually prefer zero contact. Moving forward.
But I've long said that there is no greater mother's tears, than the tears we cannot cry for our children.

I have a 28 year old son who is suffering due to his father's cold, mlc behavior. My son has early graves disease. He's also medically phobic. His father knows his son is ill and needs to see a doctor for an ultrasound for an update on the nodules on his thyroid gland. My son works two jobs, and is on food stamps and the only medical he has is through medical. 

He tried to go to one of those urgent care clinics, but was refused an appointment because he has Medical. My son offered cash, and the facility told him that because he's on medical and told them, they are not allowed to treat him and turned him away. My son called the Medical network, waited a few weeks to be seen, then when he was seen, the doctor referred him to a skin specialist...who did NOT accept medical. What a waste.

My son called me this morning and was actually crying. He knows he needs to be seen for TED, but is barred by a broken American medical system. He's more broken because he does not understand why his father won't help him get medical care. He was also upset that his father knows that our son's car broke down two weeks ago and he cannot get to and from his work. I've been trying to help when I can with his transportation, but just can't understand how a father can be so cold to his only son. His father refused to help with his son's repairs for the car, refused to help him get a rental car, and has refused to help him with a down payment or co-sign on a used car, which in CA is very difficult to obtain these days. My son does not see his father's behavior as MLC, as he doesn't understand the syndrome, but feels the 180 chill from who his father was. He's always called his dad his best friend.

I reached out to my son's father once in the last 6 years. I asked him to help our son get medical care. To maybe add him to the company insurance plan, anything to help our son treat his phobias and to be seen by a doctor.

Crickets. From my experience the cold behavior is a manifest response from a person still enduring the midlife fracture. The other cold behavior to our son is just another way my x husband takes a stab at me. Hurts me by hurting our son.

I asked my son to just go see his father face to face, and ask him for help. Ex's response? "Your mother has a million dollars stashed in an offshore account and she's only trying to steal my company, so go ask her for her money.

It is my opinion that the cold behavior so many of us are familiar with also extends to the mlcr children, or anyone who dare interfere with their narrative (re-invented history). Their mental fracture goes so deep that these mlcrs panic at anyone getting close to the truth...which the mlcr cannot accept. So many of these fractured folks run from facing their real truths and those closest to the flame, get the most burned.

I wish there was a site for children/family members of mid life transition fractured people. These kids/family members need a site to ask questions, and seek direction. My son has believed my ex's narrative now for 12 years. Ex sticks to the 1,000,000 off shore story and my son is caught in the middle so to speak, and is caught in the limbo.

I wished I could help my son get a used car. I wished I could find a doctor who still accepts cash for visits, and I wish my son was not caught in the middle of his father's mid life transition/fracture.  As a side note to this post, my former husband became afraid of dying at the beginning of his mlc, has medical phobias just like his son, but he cannot separate his fracture from his own son's needs. No empathy that his son suffers many of his own afflictions with the phobias. My therapist says that were there are one phobias, there are often times, many.

Both son and ex are afraid of heights. Becoming ill. Hearing anything medical that suggests they may be ill. Phobias of failure, phobias of intimacy, conflict avoidant tendency.

Sorry for the mini rant. I rarely post here but logged in today and saw this subject and the topic hit home.

[KayDee]

Jo, I'm so sorry this is all happened to you. I'm really new to all this, and I feel rather out of my depth commenting much, but I'm sure some of the veterans here will respond. All I can say is that it does seem as though you have this very special relationship with your son, and that is something to cherish.

I have been reading this blog by John Folk Williams
https://www.storiedmind.com/self-esteem/why-depressed-men-leave-1/comment-page-8/#comment-1112605

It made so much sense to me, in terms of my situation. He covers many other areas too. Much of it aligns with HS, but his words are from his own experience of depression, and the urge to escape.

Strength to you..

[Jo]

Thank you for the thoughtful referral. I'll read it soon. And just when I thought the emotional abuse to my son could not get worse, I learned yesterday that my former husband crushed my son yesterday.

My son was in special ed all of his life. He barely made it out of high school, and that was with tutors five days a week. His dad is co-owner of a big head hunting business locally, and does quite well.  His son asked to come work for him at the business, you know, learn from his father.
His father told him that he only hires people with a bachelor's degree. That there, was a stab in my son's heart in that his father knows his son could not make it through college. He was as cold as ice.

Yesterday we learned that his father hired his girlfriend's son (same age as my son) to work at their San Diego office. No bachelor's degree. Gets full medical benefits, a company car, gas allowance, car washes, and a nice retirement account.

My ex's own son is on food stamps, has no working car, works two jobs, no medical insurance, and his father left for a three week vacation yesterday to Europe.

And sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I'll figure out how to start my own thread soon. lol

[KayDee]

It's been a while since I posted, mainly because I have little to share or vent with the community. This since deciding to going dark on comms with my H for a few months, to allow me to breath, heal and function, not much has occurred. I have been functioning. I would say GAL'ing, but it's more like re-joining my life (which is a far less interesting acronym), because my life was pretty full before BD. But I have added to the mix less TV watching, more socialising, going for runs and the obligatory yoga. I have secured and increased my finances and I am trying hard to pause on thinking about, let alone actioning, any big decisions. I am 3 months in - still tearful sometimes, with phases of anxiety. A flatness in the morning, perhaps because I wake up at 3 am and spin around in my brain until my brain has the sense to turn itself off again. Oh, and moments of manic activity, with a bit of elation. Probably all normal....? To make sense of it where I can, I have been leaning into HS - reading the many stories of the forum. After coming across the story of MadLuv, I would say I found a near match to my sitch. The FOO issues and abandonment. It sparked it me a memory from about 5 years ago. Away on vacation, going for a stroll with H along the beach, I was musing about us in 30 years time, still doing the same type of thing, and he made an uncharacteristically cold comment, something like 'if we make it'. This kicked-off an argument (more like an emotional exchange) within which his jealously of my career became clear, but also an undercurrent of how he struggled with my being away from home (that year I was away for 2 x month long writer's retreats). I know he really struggles to be alone, but hid it well, and managed to be supportive. After this, I travelled very little and then of course, the pandemic that grounded us all. I am not saying I think this was an earlier BD. I don't think that, because we remained strong and close. My H was not withdrawn and regressing  - he was actually in a good place. The triggers came later. But in his post-BD monologue, he recalled how I had said to him, a few months prior to BD, that I felt we were growing apart. He said he not could not handle hearing it, but this had rooted in his mind, it was the seed for separation. Of course, I could get little clarity on this after BD, but it remains bewildering to me because I raised it to ignite a conversation about his withdrawal.  But he really did not want to talk about it. I still think it is no coincidence that BD occurred when I started to travel again. I do know that it changes nothing in the terms of the observable facts. And I know that he is in crisis. But the possibility of him abandoning me before I 'abandoned' him feels like an addition layer of complexity. I am not blaming myself. I just felt the urge to journal it I suppose.

I do have a question for the forum - My H, like so many before him, is absolutely certain in his decision - OK, that seems par for the script (and it is very early days). But right from the start he told everyone close to him, and beyond, that our marriage is over, done, the end. With me then receiving sympathy messages from his family like 'I hope you can move on' etc (like another nail in the coffin, only one week in). In people's experience, is this usual (or at least, not unusual)? And does it affect things if the MLC has doubts or even change their mind? I I wonder about the issue of saving face and how this can affect any form of reconnection moving forward.  I more commonly read that the MLC will not tell people unless they have to, keep the whole thing secret. My sitch seems somehow more cast in stone now,  it has a shared ownership. I know as I write this, it may seem like straw-clutching, but increasingly now, I am focused on my own choices and decisions moving forward. This 'face-saving' issue is a niggling unaddressed question for me. At least some responses will stop me endlessly foraging