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Author Topic: My Story Help please 4

H
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My Story Help please 4
OP: September 17, 2023, 02:42:54 PM
Who would have thought I would get to thread 4.

Previous Thread is here: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12096 - UM

At the beginning I remember trying to make 3 months. And then I thought I would try for a year. Now I am 17 months in and I think progressing towards divorce. It is hard to tell.

It is an awful way to live. Occasional moments of normalcy but mostly cold distance. The monstering is gone and it now just a Cold War. But I have managed to set her aside mostly. My challenges are now mostly with my eldest who is in enormous pain and loves me but thinks I am the cause of the marriage.

The trick is to keep my thoughts right. There is an art to it. Learning to stop the circling that reinforces the negativity.

The only way forward is forward. I have a low energy wallower and she would stay like this forever.
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« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 03:17:03 AM by UrsaMajor »

H
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Help please 4
#1: September 22, 2023, 04:48:00 AM
It is just hard and strange.

Actually it is perverse.

My wife’s lawyer is accusing me of not disclosing things. Yet will not tell me what those things are. It is just so hard.

Anyway, I have not hidden anything. But for gods sake tell me what you want.


I just need an ending. The madness of the MLC person seems to infect their representation.

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#2: September 22, 2023, 07:31:21 AM
It’s just insane, I’m 6.5 years into this with a mlc that is living with ow2 in his hometown 1000 kms away, he still texts every now and then probably a touch and go and the insanity is still coming out of his mouth, I don’t understand how no one else can pick up on it. There’s no way he would be able to be just like this with me and totally normal with everyone else.
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#3: September 23, 2023, 03:35:22 AM
It is so strange.

How odd it must be to be them. Although I am excised from her life I am still responsible for her unhappiness.

And I am told nothing. The disrespect is extremely strange. It is now extending to my children. I may not be here. But does not say where she will be.

No one is deserving of such contempt.
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#4: September 25, 2023, 02:36:38 AM
My wife’s lawyer is accusing me of not disclosing things. Yet will not tell me what those things are. It is just so hard.

Anyway, I have not hidden anything. But for gods sake tell me what you want.

On a purely practical note here - document such things with your lawyer. Show that you have replied to any disclosure requests received that contain specific requests. You can not disclose what you have not been asked for. Her lawyer may be under the impression that she has made some sort of request from you (I mean, the lawyers only know what they have been told...).

As an example, I got a pretty harshly worded note from the court saying that, if I didn't disclose a specific piece of information from a specific employer, I could be held in contempt.... The problem was 1) I had never worked for that particular company but MLCxW had, and 2) I had never been requested to provide such information. I replied to the court within 48 hours with those two pieces of information and copied her lawyer on the correspondence.... and that was the end of the issue on my part.... but if I had ignored it, thinking that it wasn't my problem because I hadn't worked there in the first place, it could have come back to bite me later.... It was incumbent on my MLCxW to provide that information to her lawyer, not me.... Just that MLCxW had failed to inform her own lawyer of that particular employer and the court assumed that I worked there...
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Me - 60, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 16, D - 12
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
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#5: September 25, 2023, 02:46:21 AM
It is very odd. Family lawyers seem very Lucy goosy in Australia.

No document has been requested by her or her lawyer. I have disclosed everything through my lawyer. To be honest I think they both don’t quite understand the business structure although mine does a bit better as I can explain it.

I have had him send a polite letter saying it is an abuse of process to run off to Court when it has not been specified what I have not disclosed.
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H
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#6: September 26, 2023, 12:53:52 AM
A pretty $h!te day. She would not talk to me this morning so I knew she was agitated. She came at me hard about non disclosure and delay. I simply said I can’t give you what I don’t have.

Then a whole lot of stuff about how she just wants to be alone on her terms as she got sick of being alone with me. I just said. I was sorry but I was not that man anymore as I have worked on my stuff. And that I don’t want to be alone but wanted to be part of a family. I then just accepted that was her decision to make and I accepted it.

I said I would not be alone as I would be with my girls part of the time and I was looking forward to that.  She just said I had killed the relationship by not being kind to her and not participating in family life. I said I had made mistakes and I was sorry.

The whole thing is nuts. There is nothing rational going on but there is nothing I can do but be accepting and loving.


But I will fight for my children. Absolutely.
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« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 02:04:54 AM by Helpnewc »

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#7: September 26, 2023, 02:22:08 AM
As long as she is looking for excuses to justify her actions, you can expect to get monstered at.

You have recognized your part in what was wrong previously and have taken steps to remedy/apologize for those things. She has, in turn, chosen to end the relationship. That is her choice and she will have to deal with the consequences of her actions.

As for the complaints about delaying, your answer was perfect. What you don't have tor do not know about, you can't disclose. If she has a problem with that, she needs to ensure her lawyer has ALL the correct information and not just what she thinks is the correct information.

The rest is just

self-justifications to blame you for her choices/actions
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Me - 60, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 16, D - 12
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#8: September 26, 2023, 03:40:34 AM
I agree.

No accountability. It is the craziest thing I have ever experienced.
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#9: September 26, 2023, 03:07:52 PM
And back to pretending nothing and weirdness.

The avoidance of consequences is really big part of this.
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#10: September 29, 2023, 03:41:38 PM
My wife and my daughters have gone to Melbourne to see her sister and her cousins. Her sister has taken our broken marriage as an opportunity to support her sister after she did not do so in her childhood. Nothing good will come of the visit.

The loneliness is profound. I miss my daughters and my old life. I know it is gone and the longing for it is just part of the grief. For so long I wanted the switch to flick back and the craziness to be gone but that is now how it works.

The old life was extremely negative for my wife. She cannot remember anything good. There is no way for me to bring those memories back.


So I have not got up yet. But I will. I will do some exercise, I will clean the house, I will sort out the business loan. And I will realise that for a while I will be very broken and empty.


But mostly I miss my family. More than I thought was possible.

Still there is a dishwasher to stack.
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#11: October 01, 2023, 05:01:58 PM
I have survived the weekend. I made the mistake of texting my wife when I had a few beers at the grand final and telling we her I loved her and I always would. She told me that was for me and not for her.

I have really missed my children this weekend. She did not have them ring me at all while they were away. It seems cruel but I remind myself that eventually I will have my dedicated time with them.

She has not responded to the proposed care arrangement. She just can’t think about it so she ignores it. I need her gone and I need some structure to move on.

It is slowly happening. I am so weary of the pain and wonder where my wonderful wife disappeared to. She is gone.
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#12: October 01, 2023, 05:10:20 PM
Quote
I am so weary of the pain

We can very much relate to this. It's actually a good sign.

Also, once you've had a couple of drinks, you can send the text to yourself or to a trusted friend. That way you don't have to protect yourself from her response.

Just know that your detaching strategies--they help you move along away from the pain and so do more of those.

You'll get there. You won't always feel this way. It will get better.
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« Last Edit: October 01, 2023, 05:11:32 PM by Reinventing »

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#13: October 01, 2023, 05:16:15 PM
Thanks Reinventing,

Her response did not knock me much. She does know I love her but that just makes her angry. I should just disappear so my love does not make her uncomfortable.

It is hard that she blocks me with my children. Eventually I will have my time once there is some structure. I amazed at how hard I find it to be away from them.
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#14: October 03, 2023, 02:01:46 AM
The cruelty is the strange part. My wife was always kind. Particularly to me. But now there is no kindness. Absolutely no empathy. None. More empathy for someone she bumps into on the street rather than me. I guess it is what you have to do to behave like this. But it is so odd.

So today I said I would come home early to swim with my kids. I was home earlier than said to see my brother in law leaving with his wife having had a swim. She had decided to invite them over knowing I would miss out.

Combined with taking the kids away for four days and not having them ring me the behaviour has firmed my resolve. She is gone.

As much as I love her, she has gone.

And the real fight will be the parenting arrangement. She cannot even think about it as she does not want to be away from her daughters. Sadly, there is only one way to avoid that.

And if we reconciled I would get away with something.


The only way forward is forward. And staying in limbo is not forward.
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 02:15:35 AM by Helpnewc »

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#15: October 04, 2023, 01:59:22 AM
The monster is back.

Apparently I was never home when we had babies. I seem to remember holding them a lot and the photos disagree.

It is so odd. There is no way to rewrite the untruths.
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#16: October 04, 2023, 02:49:39 AM
The monster is back.

Apparently I was never home when we had babies. I seem to remember holding them a lot and the photos disagree.

It is so odd. There is no way to rewrite the untruths.

Historical revisionism...... and projection....

"I'm sorry that you feel that way."
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Me - 60, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 16, D - 12
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#17: October 04, 2023, 04:07:18 AM
The monster is back.

Apparently I was never home when we had babies. I seem to remember holding them a lot and the photos disagree.

It is so odd. There is no way to rewrite the untruths.

Historical revisionism...... and projection.... 

"I'm sorry that you feel that way."

She may also be saying this - to you and others - as part of trying to rationalise why you should get less custody/access. Unlikely to work legally but it becomes strangely noticeable that the tales MLCers tell always seem to be in their interests….
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#18: October 04, 2023, 06:34:18 AM
The monster is back.

Apparently I was never home when we had babies. I seem to remember holding them a lot and the photos disagree.

It is so odd. There is no way to rewrite the untruths.

Historical revisionism...... and projection.... 

"I'm sorry that you feel that way."

She may also be saying this - to you and others - as part of trying to rationalise why you should get less custody/access. Unlikely to work legally but it becomes strangely noticeable that the tales MLCers tell always seem to be in their interests….



Exactly correct so hold those pictures close to your chest to show that what she is spouting is nonsense if needed....
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Me - 60, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 16, D - 12
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

W

WHY

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#19: October 04, 2023, 10:45:57 AM
The monster is back.

Apparently I was never home when we had babies. I seem to remember holding them a lot and the photos disagree.

It is so odd. There is no way to rewrite the untruths.

Historical revisionism...... and projection.... 

"I'm sorry that you feel that way."

She may also be saying this - to you and others - as part of trying to rationalise why you should get less custody/access. Unlikely to work legally but it becomes strangely noticeable that the tales MLCers tell always seem to be in their interests….

Mine at some point said she "fears for the safety of our children" and that's why she wants majority/full custody.  I think even in that moment she realized she was out of her mind because when I told her the next day what she said, she said "I never said that". 

Im sure in the moment she believed what she was saying.  They dont consciously lie to themselves.  They do believe themselves.  But their thinking is deluded and not based in reality. 

Im sorry you feel that way and go back to doing your crossword puzzle.  Seriously, dont engage.  There's no possible outcome that could be remotely positive by engaging. 
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« Last Edit: October 04, 2023, 10:47:29 AM by WHY »

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#20: October 04, 2023, 02:36:46 PM
Thank you. I agree with all of it.

It is easier to intellectualise than to deal with the emotion of it.
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H
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#21: October 04, 2023, 03:15:08 PM
You do wonder how anyone ever comes out of it.

They surround themselves with people who agree with them and they genuinely believe the story they are telling the stories they are telling myself.

I have now been calm and kind for many months. Yet there is no sign of change. I look back at how I thought I would endure for 3
months, then 6 months and now 18 months and I think how foolish I was.

I probably lengthened it a bit by the anger at the beginning in my confusion. The hardest part she is back with everyone but me.

Other tell me this is common but it makes it no easier to endure.

But I probably won’t have to much longer.
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#22: October 05, 2023, 01:01:19 AM
You do wonder how anyone ever comes out of it.
I probably lengthened it a bit by the anger at the beginning in my confusion. The hardest part she is back with everyone but me.

Dear Help - a couple of things. I really doubt you lengthened things with your very normal reactions. If you did, then the logic stands that you could also shorten it, but that's highly unlikely too. Only she can do that, alas. I basically let me H go from the outset. I was kind, patient and showed compassion, but I gave him complete freedom. He has just gone into phase two of demolition. Nothing I did, or didn't do. This is how he thinks he can make himself happy.

You think she is back with everyone, but you don't really know the intricacies of other relationships, and it may help you not to fixate on them so much. Everything looks different closer up, but you are currently on the sidelines. Sorry, but analysing all this won't help you heal. She may, or may not come out of it. There's no fixed formula, only a mix of her strength and willingness to confront her issues. Hopefully she will, but as a friend said to me, you need to leave space in your mind that you may never know the answers.
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« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 01:02:56 AM by KayDee »

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#23: October 05, 2023, 01:59:03 AM
Thanks Kaydee,
Don’t try to understand it. And you may be right. It does seem like our life has returned to how it was sans any relationship with me. While that is hard, it is how it is.

And I guess I was her closest relationship and in her mind the one that failed her the most. I do understand that there is absolutely nothing I can do.
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H
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#24: October 06, 2023, 01:59:15 AM
It is so weird. Occasional moments of normalcy. But only for moments.

It takes time to realise you are not the monster they say you are. There is something about us as humans that makes us believe we can influence others more than we can.

I was in trouble for asking my youngest for a hug. Perhaps I have done it too often. It is the only cuddles I get. My wife said she feel pressured. I said I will stop asking and agreed. I got you are so hard to talk to because I simply agreed. I asked what else I was meant to do.

She came home and asked my about wether my eldest had lunch. I said that I had asked her and she said not yet. Then I was told a simple no would have sufficed.

I would not treat my worst enemy the way I am being treated. It is so very odd.
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#25: October 06, 2023, 03:03:43 AM
Well, yes.
It’s like waking up in Alice in Wonderland, isn’t it? Without the fun bits  ::)

Help, I think you are going to have to start working harder to tell yourself that her opinion does not matter. Or not to you. Not of how you parent, not of how you reply to a factual question, not of what she thinks about you or the price of cheese. Stop apologising, stop taking the bait, stop listening to her opinions. Try to see that she is manipulating and weoponising these simple interactions and that normal decent people don’t do that. Learn to shrug and walk away. Find a word in your head to use that helps you do that….Whatever, Meh, Blah blah, not my problem. Use silence, don’t chase the ball. (And be very aware of any agenda she might have about claiming you are a poor parent….take legal guidance on this, document the necessary things, let your kids speak for themselves rather than letting your wife tell you what they think, be aware of ways in which you might inadvertently be using your kids as either a temporary comfort blanket or a connection to your wife)

On a practical note, where are you in the legal process? How much longer until you are no longer living under the same roof? What arrangements are in place for you to spend time with your kids right now without her being around?
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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#26: October 06, 2023, 03:59:16 AM
I was in trouble for asking my youngest for a hug. Perhaps I have done it too often. It is the only cuddles I get. My wife said she feel pressured. I said I will stop asking and agreed.

Ask your youngest directly. Do NOT take you Mid-Lifers word for anything....

Q: "Do you know how to tell when a Mid-Lifer is lying?"
A: "Their lips are moving."

It could be projection, it could be manipulation, it could be a means to drive a wedge between you and your kids ("See, he doesn't even hug you anymore. Are you sure you want to live with/spend time with him?" --> "See Judge, the kids don't even want to spend time with him." - Mid-Lifers are notorious for playing games like this)

I got you are so hard to talk to because I simply agreed. I asked what else I was meant to do.
PERFECT location for " I am sorry that you feel that way."  and leave it. Asking her what else you were supposed to do is like pointing to your back and telling her "Here is one place you haven't walked on with Golf Shoes yet. Please. Go ahead."

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Me - 60, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 16, D - 12
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#27: October 06, 2023, 02:38:20 PM
Thank you both.

I talked to my daughter and made it clear I was not sad and I love her. She is a kind soul and has been hugging me because my eldest is behaving much like my wife. I do not want her to carry the burden of the destruction of my marriage.

In terms of her leaving, the financial material has been provided but she is not responding to the parenting proposal. She is unable to engage with being away from her children but that is part of what comes from this.

I will give her another week and invite her to a mediation. Her plan is to get the money, buy a house and give me minimal contact.


I am the source of everything wrong in her life. Even when I am not really in it.


The madness is tiring. But the only way forward is forward
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#28: October 06, 2023, 04:23:39 PM
A little venting.

My daughter had her first sleepover. Her friend is shy so I gave them space. I said 3 sentence in 12 hours and that was mainly when they needed me to fix the tv for them.

They were playing Mario. My youngest was on a team by herself and asked me to play with her. I copped a text lecture about invading their space. It does your head in.


I remind myself it is not for much longer and she will leave and I will have a parenting arrangement. I am tired of fading into nothing.

I also know I honoured my daughter’s wishes. The insanity is bewildering.
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#29: October 06, 2023, 05:21:52 PM
Your child asked you to join her team on a video game… and you did, just like any decent dad would.

Ignore the noise, no reasonable parent would criticise the other parent, whether still living and parenting together or co parenting apart, for stepping into a computer game to support and have fun with their child.  Recognise it for the nonsense it is.

It’s very hard to wrap your head around the BS, esp in the early days. If it seems nonsensical to you, then it’s probably nonsense that has as much to do with your behaviour as harvesting crops in rural China (unless you are currently in a Chinese paddy field harvesting rice)
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#30: October 06, 2023, 05:59:56 PM
Thanks Biscuit,

It is just sad to see her with her head in her hands when I came home. The delusion is real for her and I can’t help.

It is an awful thing to witness the destruction of a human. And to see how they surround themselves with enablers.

I can see why so few get to the other side.
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#31: October 06, 2023, 06:17:47 PM
You can’t help, it’s a very difficult lesson to learn.

The best and possibly only way to help is to step away and look after yourself. And your kids.
For me a huge part of this, as someone that likes to explain and fix everyone’s problems is …. This one isn’t ours to fix. You can support all you like but the solution is not your remit.
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#32: October 06, 2023, 06:29:07 PM
Yes, Biscuit I now know that to be true.

I am no longer a fixer. I just manage my thoughts and love my kids.
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#33: October 07, 2023, 12:06:40 AM
Props to anyone who gets through this.

It is just so strange and crazy. The anger and hatred from them comes in waves. If I was a scientist it would be interesting, but being the rock the waves crash against is less fun.

It does help to see it for what it is. And to realise it is not you and there is nothing you can do about it.


But to be them. You would not wish it on your worst enemy. To  be forced to blow up your life for no good reason. It really is something to behold.

There is no way I would have believed it possible unless I had seen it for myself.
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#34: October 07, 2023, 03:19:57 AM
Anyway, a little more journaling. My wife is out with our former friends who I no longer see tonight. She has deleted me as a contact in LinkedIn. I guess it is no more of a slap then when she changed herself to Miss at the school. Yet they all sting.

I do regret hanging on. It has become clear to me that there was never any intention to work on it and she has just been ticking things off before she left. That is painful but it is important to own the truth.

I have been too soft. Because I love her and because I love my kids. I need a little anger to power me forward. But I will keep it inside. I do not deserve what has happened to me. There has been too much cruelty and I have consented.


It is time to be strong and get this done.
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#35: October 07, 2023, 04:05:36 AM
If you have not already done so, Help, I would encourage you to unfollow or ideally block her from any social media you use. And tbh to be very low key on social media generally at the moment. Any future communication can be done via lawyers, emails, text or phone. There is no need for ‘family’ photo sharing or public kid updates. Be like the Scarlet Pimpernel of Social Media lol.

Snooping is a kind of affirmative pain shopping imho. Most of us have done it….and then chosen to stop. Tbh it’s an no win habit….if their post-you life looks lovely, it hurts; if their post-you life looks grim, it’s confusing and keeps your focus on something you can’t fix. And you do not need your wife/xw or her supporters snooping on your future life from a distance either. Divorce practically means independent separate lives with a side order of logistical coparenting communication when you have kids….nothing more, nothing less.
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#36: October 07, 2023, 04:37:52 AM
Thanks Treasur,

I have a non existent social media presence and have not used any of the platforms for years.

I am doing ok.
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#37: October 07, 2023, 05:27:29 AM
I was in your same position and did hang on too.  In time, I have become stronger and the power in our the interactions has switched.  My XW no longer has a hold on my heart and can’t push my buttons.  I continue to focus on my kids and me.

Hang in there as it does get easier.

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#38: October 07, 2023, 07:56:09 AM
Quote
I do regret hanging on. It has become clear to me that there was never any intention to work on it and she has just been ticking things off before she left. That is painful but it is important to own the truth.

In my own story, I do not regret anything that I have done. We were hit sidewise by a tsunami. Nothing prepared us for this. Whatever I did or did not do was the best I could at the time. Our marriage was worth saving. Our family was worth fighting for.
I also will not live with regret for the past. It serves no purpose other than create more negative feelings. I get that you might have some things differently had you known but leave regret behind. Do not let that tear you down.
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« Last Edit: October 07, 2023, 08:09:51 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#39: October 07, 2023, 02:19:51 PM
Thanks all.

I feel better and am gathering my strength for what lies ahead.

I am framing it as progress now rather than defeat. That helps.
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#40: October 07, 2023, 06:01:26 PM
Yes, you are progressing in understanding the need to put your own oxygen mask on first. And that the word crisis has broad and deep ramifications.

Keep focusing on your healing. That is better for you, which is better for your children.
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#41: October 07, 2023, 07:19:32 PM
Thanks reinventing.

My wife is doing some work on identity at Uni, she no longer sees herself as a wife. I know that is true but gee it is painful to read it.
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#42: October 08, 2023, 05:26:22 AM
Yes, this is hugely [insert any qualifier here to indicate enormity] painful.

Hellish nighmare.
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#43: October 08, 2023, 06:35:24 AM
Thanks reinventing.

My wife is doing some work on identity at Uni, she no longer sees herself as a wife. I know that is true but gee it is painful to read it.

Not sure how you are finding out about the LinkedIn updates if you have no social media presence? Or how/why you are reading what she is writing in her University work?

I can only encourage you to find the grit required to shut those conduits of info down, whatever or whoever they are. It hurts, probably isn’t very useful and is simply a snapshot in time that changes very little about your current situation. It’s as if you are caught in a ‘shock loop’ of ‘ain’t it awful’ somehow? Are you? And how does it help you if you are? How many more painful surprises do you need? We do get it…..but almost all of us found that it is difficult to really start healing or changing one’s expectations when one is stuck in this kind of loop. And usually most of DO detaching long before we feel even close to detachment….small steps help.
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#44: October 08, 2023, 01:42:22 PM
You are right Treasur. I gave up snooping a long while ago as it just brings useless pain.

I have removed my LinkedIn profile and I saw the uni work as it was left on the dining room table. Incidental snooping.

I am generally completely disconnected.
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#45: October 12, 2023, 02:04:57 AM
So it is just weird. Limbo.

I think am moving forward but then I don’t.

My wife can’t face being apart from our kids but does not respond to the parenting proposal. I don’t want to get divorced so I don’t push.

It is the world’s stupidest stand off.


Yet I hang on. Waiting. Hoping. And working on myself.


What a way to live.
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#46: October 12, 2023, 03:56:35 AM
Quote from: Helpnewc
My wife can’t face being apart from our kids but does not respond to the parenting proposal.

And this surprises you? A Mid-Lifer wants what they want and expects the LBS to lie down and get out of their way and do what they want. To be honest, that is how many LBS's have lived before BD - we were usually quite flexible and accommodating, easy-going. Now though, when we establish boundaries, the Mid-Lifer is suddenly shocked because that is behaviour that we (the LBS) hasn't shown before and they don't like it. It means that they can't have their cake and eat it AND throw it against the wall at the same time....

The MLC'er wants to have all the benefits and none of the responsibilities and real life doesn't work that way so, apparently if they ignore the LBS, things will just happen by magic and they can go off and live in their fairy tale world of furry puppy dogs, unicorns, cotton candy clouds and rainbows...

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth where real life happens, the LBS is  (or should be) working on their own lives, figuring out what "living like the MLC'er is not coming back" looks like to them (whether they are in the house or not) and are doing what they need to do to get healthy, physically, emotionally, financially.  What the LBS should NOT be doing is sitting around waiting for their MLC'er to pull their head out of their ..... fog....

Let me put it another way. If you were looking for someone to be a partner, would you be more attracted to someone who is passive or who is active? You want to be attractive to the Mid-Lifer so that they might be interested if and when they finally get their fecal material into one sock.   No guarantees that they will ever actually accomplish that, especially if they are bound and determined to keep running from their own issues but what I can guarantee is that the MLC'er (or any other potential partner if it turns out that way) is going to be looking for someone who is strong, independent, active and self-confident as opposed to someone who is sitting in their rocking chair in a pile of soggy tissues and crocheting lace doilies while waiting for their Mid-Lifer to come to their senses.....

It may be a stand-off but that doesn't mean a stand-still......
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#47: October 12, 2023, 04:24:42 AM
You write this stuff so well Ursa.  I always enjoy reading your advice. 

As for the MLCer suddenly being shocked that the LBS has boundaries and won’t just lie down and give them everything they want.  My W was shocked when I wanted 50/50 custody.  Apparently she thought I didn’t even want the kids.  Like, WHAT!?   Then she proceeds to tell anyone that will listen that I am being a complete a$$hole about the D and dragging things out.  Yeah no sht!  Just because you can’t live in unicorn land and can’t get everything you want because of real life, now I’m the a$$hole?   They truly are delusional. 
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#48: October 12, 2023, 04:46:38 AM
The other side of this is, and this in my experience, certain practicalities seem to darn hard for the crisis spouse. My H took 9 months to print a form for a simple practical thing that he wanted. I had no objections, I just didn't do the work. Often, the non-Crisis spouse is the fixer type, or the driver, in the relationship, and the MLC expects this dynamic to continue somehow. That was a hard shift for me to make. To do nothing, or only do something when it was for me. It does indeed feel a bit like limbo if you are used to be practical and organised, wanting to get things done.
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#49: October 12, 2023, 04:53:03 AM
hen she proceeds to tell anyone that will listen that I am being a complete a$$hole about the D and dragging things out.  Yeah no sht!  Just because you can’t live in unicorn land and can’t get everything you want because of real life, now I’m the a$$hole?   They truly are delusional. 



you are NOT the anal orifice to the Mid-Lifer....

You (or the LBS in general) is the first cousin to Satan themselves, especially if you set boundaries... "How DARE you spoil my dream life with .... CONSEQUENCES! and BOUNDARIES! You are supposed to roll over and do whatever it is that I desire!"

Often, the non-Crisis spouse is the fixer type, or the driver, in the relationship, and the MLC expects this dynamic to continue somehow. That was a hard shift for me to make. To do nothing, or only do something when it was for me. It does indeed feel a bit like limbo if you are used to be practical and organised, wanting to get things done.

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#50: October 12, 2023, 05:06:15 AM
Quote
You write this stuff so well Ursa.  I always enjoy reading your advice.

Agree. Also loved the GPS explanation from a rocket scientist. Laughed out loud at that one.

Quote
To do nothing, or only do something when it was for me.

Good way to put it. When one person is in fantasy land, the LBS needs to do what benefits the LBS because that is based in reality.
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« Last Edit: October 12, 2023, 05:07:51 AM by Reinventing »

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#51: October 13, 2023, 01:50:29 PM
Thank you,

I liked stand off not a stand still.

It helped me reframe.

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#52: October 13, 2023, 07:36:16 PM
So today she told me that I had not still sent the disclosure stuff across which I sent weeks ago. Hard to work out if it is the lawyer or her.

Who would know.
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#53: October 16, 2023, 02:34:01 AM
So today she told me that I had not still sent the disclosure stuff across which I sent weeks ago. Hard to work out if it is the lawyer or her.

Who would know.

The only response to that would be like I did when the court sent me a nasty-gram that I had not provided information (for a job that MLCxW had, not me). I simply responded to the court with MLCxW's Lawyer in copy saying that I had never held the position in question and had never worked for the company that was referenced."  In your case, the answer is similar - "I sent the information requested on <date x> to <her lawyer or the court whichever the case may be>. [End of discussion] It is not your job to ride herd on her or her lawyer. Of course, if you have proof that it was sent (fax receipt, registered mail, etc.,) even better.
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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#54: October 16, 2023, 03:04:30 AM
Thanks,

It was served in her lawyer. Her lawyer may just be slack.

I also think she does not like the consequences.
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#55: October 16, 2023, 03:44:19 AM
Thanks,

It was served in her lawyer. Her lawyer may just be slack.

I also think she does not like the consequences.



The more time the lawyer wastes, the more they can bill... and Mid-Lifers are GREAT clients because they toss money at things they think they want like there is no tomorrow....

And yes, the consequences means that, if you have provided the information requested, then now SHE is in the dock to provide HER information OR her lawyer has informed her that she is not going to be making out like a bandit after all...

Too bad, so sad.... Reality is a real buzzkill....
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« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 12:55:35 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 60, xW - 54
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Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
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Divorce final 30 August 2019
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#56: October 17, 2023, 10:17:31 PM
The pointy end is hard.

No word from her lawyer. My lawyer rang and asked if I want to push. I am in a difficult position as I do not want to divorce and want to leave a way back.

I decided it to leave another week. See if I hear something.

I do have empathy for her. She generally believes the false narrative and is surrounded be enablers. I am just staying distant and neutral.

What will be will be. I can’t do anything here.
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#57: October 22, 2023, 02:29:40 AM
Another week with no word from her lawyer. I have done all my stuff but no response.

She has been better at home. Less angry. Some small moments of normalcy. This weekend was better than the last.

I have decided not to push. I will wait till January and see how I am. I want to repair our marriage but she does not.

She has reconnected with every one but me. I continue to focus on my daughters. That is going much better.


With her, I am detached. Calm. I no longer consider anything has any significance and do not look for signs.
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#58: October 22, 2023, 02:46:27 AM
Quote
With her, I am detached. Calm. I no longer consider anything has any significance and do not look for signs.

It's good to get to that point. Healthier for you.
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#59: October 25, 2023, 02:35:40 AM
So bizarre.

The freight train is on the tracks but she ignores it. The safety of knowing someone loves you I guess.

There was tremendous pressure to get the divorce done. Then as soon as all the documents are provided. Not a word. I suspect a sudden realisation that the dream of all the money and the kids is not as available as she thought.


It is a crap place to be. I don’t want to divorce her. I adore her. Yet limbo is hopeless.


I guess in January I will have to push. That is only two months. And let’s face it. I am used to this now.


On the plus side, things with the girls are much better.
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#60: October 25, 2023, 02:50:44 AM
Let's keep one thing in mind here -

you do not HAVE to do ANYTHING. You have provided all the required documents. If she wants to move things forward, she can contact her lawyer and move things forward.

IF (and this is where you will need to have a long discussion with the man in the mirror) it is better for you, mentally, emotionally, physically, financially to push, then do what is best for you in that situation but just because she realizes that the light at the end of her tunnel is, in fact, an oncoming train and not the exit to the land of fuzzy puppy dogs with wiggly tails, pink cotton candy clouds and unicorns farting clouds of rainbow glitter as she was anticipating and is therefore slow-rolling the process now (after pushing YOU to try to take responsibility for it) does not mean that you are forced to take action based on an artificially imposed deadline.

Bottom line, you have done what you needed to do. If she is gung-ho to get this done, then she needs to do the work to get it done....

My MLCxW was similar. She wanted me to do the work for her so she could use that as her justification. I provided the required documentation as requested and then did nothing. She wanted the D, she had to file.  In the end, she did but she had to then own the process, the choice and the consequences of her actions.
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#61: October 27, 2023, 01:46:27 AM
Still no news.

My new favourite game is put the wedding photo back. Endless fun after it is covered over.

It is such a strange way to live. That said. There are small bits of courtesy now that were not there before.
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#62: October 27, 2023, 05:31:48 AM
My new favourite game is put the wedding photo back. Endless fun after it is covered over.

I need to ask this.... Do you enjoy poking the bear? What do you get out of it? What is in it for you?

To date, I haven't seen any advice anywhere that suggests trying to provoke the Monster is a good idea.... and it is most certainly not a game....
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Divorce final 30 August 2019
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#63: October 27, 2023, 12:03:25 PM
Hi Ursa,

The only reaction is to put it back up.

There is not really any monstering anymore. It is just strange.
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#64: October 28, 2023, 05:55:57 AM
Hi Ursa,

The only reaction is to put it back up.

There is not really any monstering anymore. It is just strange.

It isn’t you know….that’s just the option you are currently choosing. Do you know what you are getting from that? Bc it sounds, at best, a bit silly and at worst a kind of passive aggressive way of tweaking her metaphorical nose. What would be a different better option for you if you want to choose one? Bc imho it’s ok for you to still value it even if she seemingly no longer does.
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#65: October 28, 2023, 05:10:43 PM
Sorry the strangeness is not about the photo. I get that.

I suppose it is my last little bit of resistance. It is a small token but I guess I feel like I have given up otherwise by fully detaching and not engaging.

Is it pathetic? Sure, but I am going to allow myself that one.


She went away for a couple of nights with her enablers. She told me she would go after the girls were in bed so they would go to sleep but as soon as I walked in the door she was off like a shot. To be honest, I thought that was great and I had a great night with the girls.


We then had a lovely Saturday and Saturday night. My eldest who I have been struggling with is really talking to me again and it is beautiful.


In January I think it is time for me to push the separation forward. It is becoming clear to me that my life is better when she is not there and I am ok with that.

Thanks for your thought Treasur. I understand what you are getting at but I am content with my approach. I absolutely don’t expect it to achieve anything with my MLCer but it is for me.
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#66: October 29, 2023, 12:20:53 AM
Fair enough  :)

Sounds like you had a lovely weekend with your girls, and yes, one does start to notice how life feels lighter when drama and anger are out of your home  :)
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#67: November 04, 2023, 02:03:26 AM
My wife went away for 3 nights. It has been great to just be with my daughters. Things have improved greatly with connection and I am doing much better as a parent.

She appears to be going into liminality. She is sleeping a lot. Not eating much and pretty down.

Typical LBS. I hoped being away might make her think about what may be ahead. But she made it very clear when she arrived home that she is still on the leaving path. I just remained accepting.

She was angry with the kids for the first time. Something is going on but I just keep my distance.

She had a problem with an Apple ID. Somehow that is my fault.

I can’t wait for her to go away again. It tells me something.
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#68: November 04, 2023, 05:42:31 PM
What a difference 24 hours makes.

Today I am told that she is seeing a barrister tomorrow and it appears the further material I have not disclosed has not been received. I saw the email when it was disclosed. Perhaps the lawyer missed it.

I have done everything right. I am just so weary.

Anyway, I have told my lawyer by email. They can talk tomorrow.

At least there is progress, she is entirely irrational about the kids.
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#69: November 05, 2023, 01:08:04 AM
It really is not fun.

I played a Roblox game with the girls and because I was emotional scores my wife a 1 in a fashion parade.

She cried and said I had excluded her. It is just so crazy.

At least there will be an ending soon. I need it to be over.
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#70: November 05, 2023, 04:18:46 AM
Hang in there. Sounds like a lot of rollercoaster emotions happening. They can be that way. Toward the end right before my XH left he cried when I asked where the tape measure was  because it wasn’t in the garage where it had a place always. He said, my fault. I didn’t put it back. He was literally bawling over it. Her frustrations and emotions are her confusion. Nothing you can do about it, but one thing you are correct on is that when you can get a break from it then it is a relief. Confusing as it all is when you are wanting to save your marriage.
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#71: November 05, 2023, 12:42:50 PM
Quote from: Helpnewc
My wife went away for 3 nights. It has been great to just be with my daughters. Things have improved greatly with connection and I am doing much better as a parent.

She appears to be going into liminality. She is sleeping a lot. Not eating much and pretty down.

Typical LBS. I hoped being away might make her think about what may be ahead. But she made it very clear when she arrived home that she is still on the leaving path. I just remained accepting.

She was angry with the kids for the first time. Something is going on but I just keep my distance.

She had a problem with an Apple ID. Somehow that is my fault.

I can’t wait for her to go away again. It tells me something.
So happy for you that you spend quality moments with your daughters and your connection is getting better. From my POV, increase the links with our children is even more important during our spouse's crisis : they need to have at least one parent stable, and these good moments bring joy, love and peace inside us. Giving love and receiving love is great.

I do not understand what happened with the roblox game and your wife, what matters for me is that it looks like you have spent a good moment with the girls -> good for you and them. Regarding your W, I am agree with Madluv, her frustations and her emotions are hers, not something you can change.
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Aimer, c'est donner sans attendre de retour et tout acte est prière, s'il est don de soi (Antoine de Saint Exupéry)
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#72: November 05, 2023, 01:41:37 PM
Thank you.

I just accept the end.
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#73: November 06, 2023, 12:42:06 AM
Acceptance and love. It is all I have. No anger.
I love my family. I did not know how much. While it does not matter to my wife, it matters to me.
Perhaps that is enough. Or at least it has to be.
It is strange living on death row. Knowing it is over but the deed has not yet done. I am Schrödinger’s cat. Alive but also dead.

But there is peace in acceptance and love. Yet I will fight. I will fight for my daughters. Yes, it may cost me a lot but how can I consent to being a weekend dad.

The answer is I cannot. I can accept someone else saying I should be. But I cannot consent.


And so I gather strength. Refinding myself after my self has been destroyed by the person I love. I find myself reappearing. Slowly. But a stronger more confident self. A strength that is flexible rather than brittle. Who understands love in a way he did not.


And who understands himself. And has learned a lot about trauma and how your body does keep a score.


I am a better man. I am a better dad. I am grateful for those gifts.
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#74: November 06, 2023, 02:25:04 PM
One of those things I wrote years back is that the most frightening, most consuming but also most relieving moment is right before the jump..... Not sure if you are in that spot yet, but from cheap seats it looks you are not far off neither. Have strength and be kind to yourself. It will get a lot easier soon.

As for not settling for weekend dad role.... It is  indeed gonna be a difficult battle since you two need to share what cannot be shared. But if you persistently show how you will make it not just happen but thrive (for kids), then you got hope of becoming bit more. But it is not going to be easy - you need to have solid strategy (how to incorporate kids to new life, how to support them through various life stages over years, how to arrange your own life, how to have support network etc), you need to fight fiercely like papaBear and not settle for bad deal regardless of pressure, and above all you need to control any negative emotions like never before.

 What you need to understand this is not about your right to be a father (if that is your only argument you will not get what you want), but for your childrens right to have a functional, safe and nourishing growing enviroment now and in years to come.

Alvin
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At time of BD.... Me: 43, XW: 41
Kids: G19,G18,G14,G12,S5
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years

BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."), Mar 2020
D filed May 2020, D finalized Dec 2020
I have moved on, and am in new relationship.

Lessons from Stoicism and REBT helped me to exit the chaos zone and become a better person. 

"Happiness and freedom begin with a clear understanding of one principle: Some things are within our control, and some things are not. - Epictetus"

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#75: November 07, 2023, 12:05:30 AM
Thank you Alvin,

That is helpful.
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#76: November 08, 2023, 12:44:25 AM
So I was asked to leave the house today.

I said no. She ended the marriage. She can go. Then she refused to go as she knows it is then 50/50 custody.

I then suggested we work that out before she goes. I will pay her rent for a bit or rather for my kids and we can sort the property stuff out.


The plan was for me to go. For her to live in our unmortgaged house and keep the kids. Not on my watch.


Gee it is a lot of fun isn’t it. Where did she go.
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#77: November 08, 2023, 12:56:48 AM
Yes, they do contrive interesting fantasy lives in all this. Good job staying in the house and remaining steadfast in that.
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#78: November 08, 2023, 01:52:09 AM
So I was asked to leave the house today.

I said no. She ended the marriage. She can go. Then she refused to go as she knows it is then 50/50 custody.

I then suggested we work that out before she goes. I will pay her rent for a bit or rather for my kids and we can sort the property stuff out.


The plan was for me to go. For her to live in our unmortgaged house and keep the kids. Not on my watch.


Gee it is a lot of fun isn’t it. Where did she go.

yeah this is fun, she making a move like that is crazy, for you and for the kids. Good for you that you stay in the house, your children deserve at least one stable parent.

Regarding "you paying her rent ", is it your proposal or hers ? And did you word it or write it ? I don't see why you should pay for this rent, as it is her decision to leave.
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Aimer, c'est donner sans attendre de retour et tout acte est prière, s'il est don de soi (Antoine de Saint Exupéry)
Love means to give without expecting return, and every act is a prayer if it is a self-gift. (thanks OffRoad !)

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#79: November 08, 2023, 02:15:00 AM
She raised it and I am happy to.

I want to know the kids are somewhere safe and I also figured if I left I would have to pay rent.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.
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#80: November 08, 2023, 04:57:50 AM
She wants to end the marriage and wants out, then she needs to leave.... and she doesn't get to take the kids and the kitchen sink with her when she goes.... 50/50 means just that.  She should actually be paying YOU rent as it is NOT only her house...
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#81: November 08, 2023, 07:47:11 AM
She raised it and I am happy to.

I want to know the kids are somewhere safe and I also figured if I left I would have to pay rent.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

Out of interest, would she be paying her half of the mortgage until the house is sold or one of you buys the other out?
Does she have somewhere else to go eg family? Does she earn her own income?
I’d run any agreement past your own lawyer tbh whatever you choose to do. Bc MLC spouses tend not to be too good at sticking to fair agreements and you could end up getting stuck with all the costs of what is, after all, something she is choosing not you.

If the kids are your priority then you can focus on how to keep the house as their primary home and let her figure out what she is going to do to finance a second home for the other 50% of the time. Pretty standard predictable adult problem for anyone choosing to leave their marriage. That’s really not your challenge to figure out, is it?
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« Last Edit: November 08, 2023, 07:51:17 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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#82: November 08, 2023, 11:16:48 AM
I didn't have to go through this aspect, but I think in many jurisdictions here the requirement is to keep things as-is, and let any payments get sorted out by the mediation or court order. No selling assets, no big spending, maintain status quo, and then the final agreement would include back payments or back-dated alimony if appropriate. Not something to agree to up front.
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#83: November 08, 2023, 01:07:53 PM
Back up with the rent ASAP and talk to your lawyer first and do paperwork why you do so and what it means. As long as there is no court order, your house is shared property and both of you can live free. If it is not okey for her, then she needs to figure out a working solution.


Alvin
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« Last Edit: November 08, 2023, 01:10:39 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
At time of BD.... Me: 43, XW: 41
Kids: G19,G18,G14,G12,S5
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years

BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."), Mar 2020
D filed May 2020, D finalized Dec 2020
I have moved on, and am in new relationship.

Lessons from Stoicism and REBT helped me to exit the chaos zone and become a better person. 

"Happiness and freedom begin with a clear understanding of one principle: Some things are within our control, and some things are not. - Epictetus"

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#84: November 08, 2023, 01:13:54 PM
I have had advice.

I am comfortable with the decision and I will be pleased if she goes. It is something I am doing for my daughters.

The approach allows me to get the custody sorted and moves things forward for what is a minimal cost.

The worst scenario as I own the house is for me to leave. This facilitates the leaving but also incentivises the property settlement.

It will be interesting to see if she follows through.


I do appreciate the concern but it is the best way forward for me and the girls.
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#85: November 12, 2023, 01:55:44 AM
Another weekend.

She went out with the soccer girls and got drunk. She is not well today. She seems no happier and she is angry as I will not leave. She is angry because I should not exist so she can have her daughters.

It will be interesting as we move through the parenting stuff. I will need to be strong. My lawyer is very good and I will trust him to protect me.

It is easy to think the weekend was bad. And it was compared to when we were a family. But she was out most of Saturday and I had my daughters despite her plan for them to go to her parents they chose me.

I can survive this. I feel my heart hardening towards the person I love. I don’t like it but it feels necessary.
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#86: November 12, 2023, 02:28:56 PM
Sometimes you get tired of the pain, the antics, and you truly turn and focus on you and your children. That can feel like "hardening" against her, but it is likely part of becoming detached so what she says and does doesn't affect you so much and then eventually hardly at all.
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#87: November 13, 2023, 01:43:30 AM
She went out with the soccer girls and got drunk. She is not well today. She seems no happier and she is angry as I will not leave. She is angry because I should not exist so she can have her daughters.

It will be interesting as we move through the parenting stuff. I will need to be strong. My lawyer is very good and I will trust him to protect me.

It is easy to think the weekend was bad. And it was compared to when we were a family. But she was out most of Saturday and I had my daughters despite her plan for them to go to her parents they chose me.

The 2 statements in BOLD are diametrically opposed.

I hope (and VERY highly recommend) that you document these kinds of occurrences, including cluing in your lawyer - especially the parts about her having the kids and then having them go to her parents while she goes out and drinks... This will NOT go over well in front of a judge if she tries to make you out as the "bad" parent.... It strengthens your case for staying in the house with your daughters and having MLCstbxW go find her own place to live.
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Divorce final 30 August 2019
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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#88: November 13, 2023, 10:23:25 PM
What a difference a day makes.

At 4.50 pm yesterday I was served with a notice that my wife’s solicitor proposed to seek an order to kick me out of the house. No basis provided.

I shot home and politely said thanks for the Christmas present. She said I had left her no choice as she thought I had said unless she agrees to my custody proposal I would not pay her rent. I said that is not the case and that I had merely said that we need an agreement on parenting before she left.

Anyway, it was a reasonable conversation. Usual I can’t forgive you and you have changed too late. I just said I love my family and all I have acceptance and love.


We will keep on trucking.
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#89: November 13, 2023, 11:38:03 PM
Sorry that you had that experience. You are not fitting into her fantasy life that you leave the house and kids and move into an apartment. So she brings out monster through her lawyer.

I am glad you were able to have a reasonable conversation. You might want to move to have  your attorney talk to her attorney instead of you talking to her since talking to her doesn't change anything.

I'm glad she didn't have some cooked up basis for you to move out.
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#90: November 14, 2023, 12:30:06 AM
Please take her threat seriously - bc that is what it is - and go to your lawyer for advice on how to respond legally asap. Think of it like a chess game….when the other player makes a certain kind of move, the board changes and your tactics need to change accordingly. More than carrying on trucking imho.

Be clear in your mind. Your wife has just threatened to take action to have you forcibly removed from your own house. (I’m a bit unclear - is the house owned jointly or just by you?) And I agree that it is time for your lawyer to talk to her lawyer and for you to stop talking/listening to her in these kinds of conversations.

It is probably inconceivable to you that she might do this, but then it was previously inconceivable that she might do other things she has done, right? There are other male LBS here who have been wrongly accused of domestic violence or had the police called out on false charges to achieve this kind of thing legally. There was even a case I think when someone was attacked by an AP at a gas station.

Please take her threat seriously enough to take legal advice immediately and protect yourself by documenting this with a legal third party. Without making yourself crazy, please be open minded to how low your wife may stoop to get what she wants…..which is, from what I can see, the house and as close to 100% custody of the kids and you to disappear in a puff of smoke. The standard ways to do that are usually about claiming that she and/or the kids are at risk from you or perhaps that it is necessary for the kids to stay in their current home full time and therefore for her to stay in it as the primary parent.

It’s a time for logic and legal advice imho. Please don’t minimise or excuse or rationalise how far from reasonable your wife’s behaviour is. I don’t know what your plan is…..it sounds as if rain has been stopping play until a parenting agreement is signed off? And that your wife has been ignoring that bc, of course, it suits her to do so.  Have you also, honestly, been kicking the can down the road a bit too? Bc that’s normal imho for a lot of LBS to do for a while - we say we acceot something but our actions look more ambivalent bc of course none of this is what we want, is it? Why do you - or your lawyer - want to keep everyone under the same roof until a parenting plan has been signed off? Could you or she move out with a temporary agreement until the details are ironed out? Is it your plan that your wife moves out, you contribute towards her rent for x period of time and you keep the house? Are you aiming to be the primary custodial parent or go for 50/50 or something else? Your wife evidentally has a plan - however nutso it seems - so you need to have one too tbh. Ideally a less nutso one of course  :)

Tbh it may be time to find legal options to put an end to living under the same roof now for your own safety and sanity. To take back some of your own control as opposed to feeling on the back foot to stuff like this or worse. To acceot that, no matter how nuts it is, it is pretty common that MLC spouses can act like cornered animals when they don’t get their own way pdq and that limiting your exposure to risk is a reasonable choice. (Although your snarky comment about a Christmas gift was understandable, it is not perhaps helpful or your best self but hard to manage one’s own reactions when you are under the same roof. In future, a version of ‘yes I got it, my lawyer will talk to your lawyer’ is probably best lol) Let your lawyer guide you bc it won’t be the first time he/she has dealt with this kind of nonsense. Let your lawyer help you come up with appropriate strategies and timescales to move things along that meet your legal obligations but become less generous perhaps if your wife delays further or throws this kind of thing into the mix.

I’m sorry.
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« Last Edit: November 14, 2023, 01:37:50 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#91: November 14, 2023, 01:16:19 AM
Thanks Treasur

I have had a qc briefed for sometime. There are benefits to be somewhat successful in the law
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#92: November 14, 2023, 01:18:25 AM
Please take her threat seriously - bc that is what it is - and go to your lawyer for advice on how to respond legally asap. Think of it like a chess game….when the other player makes a certain kind of move, the board changes and your tactics need to change accordingly. More than carrying on trucking imho.

Be clear in your mind. Your wife has just threatened to take action to have you forcibly removed from your own house. (I’m a bit unclear - is the house owned jointly or just by you?) And I agree that it is time for your lawyer to talk to her lawyer and for you to stop talking/listening to her in these kinds of conversations.

It is probably inconceivable to you that she might do this, but then it was previously inconceivable that she might do other things she has done, right? There are other male LBS here who have been wrongly accused of domestic violence or had the police called out on false charges to achieve this kind of thing legally. There was even a case I think when someone was attacked by an AP at a gas station.

Please take her threat seriously enough to take legal advice immediately and protect yourself by documenting this with a legal third party. Please don’t minimise or excuse or rationalise how far from reasonable or normal your wife’s behaviour is. Tbh it may be time to find legal options to put an end to living under the same roof now for your own safety and sanity. I’m sorry.

I can not emphasize this more than Treasur has. It is time to get serious because she has tossed a live grenade in your lap. You are now living on borrowed time and need to get legal advice and support immediately if not sooner.

From now on, it is simply business.... and you need to put on your business hat just like Sonny.....

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Divorce final 30 August 2019
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#93: November 14, 2023, 01:23:23 AM
Thanks Ursa,

I have had the top family lawyer in my corner for months.
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#94: November 15, 2023, 08:39:35 PM
It really is horrendous.

Nothing was good in our 13 year marriage. Just wants to be alone. Has realised her lawyers are pumping up the fees and that will delay things.

My family don’t love her. They do. I was always awful. Is glad I have worked on myself so I can be with someone else.
We will be a wonderful family in two houses.

Acceptance and love. That is all I can do.

And make sure I look after my girls and me.

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#95: November 15, 2023, 10:51:29 PM
Thanks Ursa,

I have had the top family lawyer in my corner for months.

And they are telling you to do what about this latest legal threat? (I’m assuming that you did actually receive a letter from her lawyer threatening action as opposed to her just telling you she was going to do it?)

And please do yourself a favour and stop participating in these kinds of conversations. I doubt she is saying anything new she hasn’t said before, or constructive, so what is the point in your listening to it over and over again. She’s a stuck record and it’s not healthy for you to soak up this kind of poisonous BS ad infinitum. Find a short polite way to say that she has said so before, you heard her, you’re sorry she feels that way and you see no point in rehashing it….then go about your day.
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« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 11:07:17 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#96: November 16, 2023, 12:31:58 AM
It really is horrendous.

Nothing was good in our 13 year marriage. Just wants to be alone. Has realised her lawyers are pumping up the fees and that will delay things.

My family don’t love her. They do. I was always awful. Is glad I have worked on myself so I can be with someone else.
We will be a wonderful family in two houses.

Wow! I have seen slower and less back and forth in a professional Ping-Pong match than in the male bovine excrement that is being spewed here..... I mean ... seriously.... You are a horrible person but you'll be a wonderful family in two houses?


Treasur is 100% right here. This is nothing more than a toxic vat of stew that she tosses around according to her mood at the moment and there is absolutely NO positive aspect of it for you.  Therefore, there is no real reason that I can see for continuing to engage in it..... it is, after all, only more of the reguritated

that you have certainly already heard ad nauseum.....

Patient: "Doctor, it REALLY hurts when I stab myself int he nose with this Barbecue fork!"
Doctor: "Then how about if you STOP STABBING YOURSELF IN THE NOSE with the barbecue fork?"
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Divorce final 30 August 2019
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#97: November 17, 2023, 01:14:48 AM
Thank you all,

No more talk. Just need to get the transaction done and pay the money and start again. It is the most extraordinary experience of my life. Where did the lovely kind person that I know go. Did they exist at all.

Now she did not love me for 8.5 years. Just amazing. It cannot be true.

I know it will get better but it does make you gunshy.


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#98: November 17, 2023, 02:04:02 AM
I’m not sure that the residual WTF feeling ever quite goes away completely. All that’s different, years on, is that I don’t think about it so much bc it is not happening now. It happened, it was truly awful, the strangest experience of my life with way more questions than answers and here I am on the other side.

Tbh I think for most of us there comes a point when we just want the pain and uncertainty to end, and formalising divorce or separation comes as a bit of a relief. Which is a strange feeling too for something we never wanted and didn’t choose. But it does come to feel like more of a beginning than an end which becomes easier to live with bit by bit.

When you say gunshy, do you mean about new relationships or something else?
From stories here, I think most LBS are left a little gunshy to a greater or lesser degree about lots of different things….it’s normal. And slowly working out what that means for your own next chapter is a very personal thing and takes a little time. I don’t know why but, again based on stories shared here, some male LBS seem to jump a little quicker into looking for new loves….not such a bad idea to go slowly bc there are a few horror stories of choosing unwisely when you are still a bit dented  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#99: November 17, 2023, 02:35:08 AM
Thanks Treasur,

I meant a new relationship. I think my girls will be enough for me.
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#100: November 17, 2023, 03:29:03 AM
Plain and simply put -

From personal experience, the only way to describe a Rebound Relationship -



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Me - 60, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 16, D - 12
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#101: November 18, 2023, 12:02:54 PM
Acceptance is hard.

Hearing that I have not loved your for 8.5 years when before you have been told it was not that long. The narrative just changes to agree with what is happening.

Accepting what you know is based on a flawed foundation is hard. Yet you know that there is nothing you can do but accept the way forward.

Hope feels like the most futile of emotions. I have never realised how fragile relationships are and how much they depend on goodwill. Your mindset changes how you look at everything.


But you cannot repair a relationship with someone who does not want to and is convinced that living separately will be better for your family. Nothing rational is going on and anyone who tries to suggest another way is discarded.


Acceptance and love. I accept where I am and what will happen. And I love my family. All of them.
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#102: November 19, 2023, 04:57:54 PM
Your mindset changes how you look at everything.

This is the crux of the whole crisis and the reason there is nothing we can do except change OUR mindset. But even when we do, it takes a long long time for our hearts to catch up and accept this new bizarro reality. You will get there. The sadness will always linger even after acceptance is reached.

It seems to me that, like me, you come here to say the things that you just need to get out! that no one IRL can truly get. I do that as well. Often I think it meant that people here thought I was not doing well and got people worrying about me. I get the impression that you're actually doing very well, despite your obvious sadness re your situation, and that you are moving through and functioning well with a clear mindset re your options. Keep 'getting it out' here. It helped me enormously.
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M: 53 (48 @ BD), H: 55 (51 @ BD); Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 24 (19 @ BD), D: 22 (17 @ BD), 'Extra D': 22 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)
May 23: Yep, definitely a T&G last year. Still have contact but very minimal. He is a long way away from me these days. He doesn't seem particularly happy in his new life... but he's still there soooo....

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#103: November 19, 2023, 05:43:09 PM
Thanks Evermore,

You are right. I need to get it out where people understand the bizarreness and don’t just get frustrated with me still loving this person who treats me so poorly.

I am also doing much better each day.
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#104: November 26, 2023, 01:04:40 AM
Another week on death row. I have been managing better. Less damaged by her. Less vulnerable but still fearful of the end that is coming.

No word from her lawyer. I vacillate about the parenting proposal. It is one day less than I asked for but a week away from my children seems a long time.

I will have to trust my lawyer’s judgment and ask him about it. It is an interim proposal for 6 months and perhaps it is worth it to can it done. But she actually needs to put it.


She continues to spend time with a friend who is an enabler. It is really hard seeing her cast aside anyone who challenges her. It makes you feel hopeless.

But things are better with my eldest. I will continue to work on my relationship with her. I adore my kids and ironically when I separate formally I will have more time with them. I try to keep focussed on that.


And I know there is nothing I can do. I have given it my all. I have changed what I needed to. But you can’t repair a relationship with someone who does not want to.
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2023, 01:05:59 AM by Helpnewc »

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#105: November 26, 2023, 03:03:12 AM
You are in a really tough part of all this. Not knowing the outcome of the path that you are clearly on because of her decisions. She is changing the narrative about your relationship, making it worse and worse. This is common, a script that many here have experienced.

Even though you know that what she says is not based on reality, it is very taxing on you, and your mind will work hard thinking about and processing what she says. For a long time, sometimes. That's why if there is any way to cut off those conversations, for you to not hear so much of that, then you don't have it in your memory for you to have to process.

This is very traumatic to go through and she is in fantasy land, so protect yourself the best you can.

You won't always feel this way. It does get better.
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2023, 03:06:53 AM by Reinventing »

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#106: November 26, 2023, 06:19:19 AM
Quote
Another week on death row. I have been managing better. Less damaged by her. Less vulnerable but still fearful of the end that is coming.

I found, that when a major change was going to happen aka a court hearing, the anticipation of this would be worse than how I felt once it was all over. The same is true still to a certain degree of specific dates....like our anniversary or the date of BD.

Perhaps once the divorce is finalized, once it is done...then we can put it behind us...for as you say:

Quote
And I know there is nothing I can do. I have given it my all. I have changed what I needed to. But you can’t repair a relationship with someone who does not want to.

"Acceptance" comes...sometimes we think we are ok with something but it still haunts us...it stays in our subconscious and ruminates there...when acceptance comes, we become free of the anguish that colors our lives.


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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#107: November 26, 2023, 10:42:49 AM
It seems the "fairness" of it all flew out the window long ago. You are becoming a better person, whether your spouse returns or not. Right now, that is little consolation but hopefully it will turn out good for you in the end.I am hoping that for me as well....You are not alone.
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#108: November 28, 2023, 01:00:50 AM
One of the things that helps me is the Stockdale Paradox from Good to Great by Jim Collins. I set the excerpt below:

Every good-to-great company faced significant adversity along the way to greatness, of one sort or another. … In every case, the management team responded with a powerful psychological duality. On the one hand, they stoically accepted the brutal facts of reality. On the other hand, they maintained an unwavering faith in the endgame, and a commitment to prevail as a great company despite the brutal facts. We came to call this duality the Stockdale Paradox.
The name refers to Admiral Jim Stockdale, who was the highest-ranking United States military officer in the “Hanoi Hilton” prisoner-of-war camp during the height of the Vietnam War. Tortured over twenty times during his eight-year imprisonment from 1965 to 1973, Stockdale lived out the war without any prisoner’s rights, no set release date, and no certainty as to whether he would even survive to see his family again. …

You can understand, then, my anticipation at the prospect of spending part of an afternoon with Stockdale. One of my students had written his paper on Stockdale, who happened to be a senior research fellow studying the Stoic philosophers at the Hoover Institution right across the street from my office, and Stockdale invited the two of us for lunch. In preparation, I read In Love and War, the book Stockdale and his wife had written in alternating chapters, chronicling their experiences during those eight years.

As I moved through the book, I found myself getting depressed. It just seemed so bleak—the uncertainty of his fate, the brutality of his captors, and so forth. And then, it dawned on me: “Here I am sitting in my warm and comfortable office, looking out over the beautiful Stanford campus on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. I’m getting depressed reading this, and I know the end of the story! I know that he gets out, reunites with his family, becomes a national hero, and gets to spend the later years of his life studying philosophy on this same beautiful campus. If it feels depressing for me, how on earth did he deal with it when he was actually there and did not know the end of the story?”

“I never lost faith in the end of the story,” he said, when I asked him. “I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade.”

I didn’t say anything for many minutes, and we continued the slow walk toward the faculty club, Stockdale limping and arc-swinging his stiff leg that had never fully recovered from repeated torture. Finally, after about a hundred meters of silence, I asked, “Who didn’t make it out?”

“Oh, that’s easy,” he said. “The optimists.”

“The optimists? I don’t understand,” I said, now completely confused, given what he’d said a hundred meters earlier.

“The optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, ‘We’re going to be out by Christmas.’ And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they’d say, ‘We’re going to be out by Easter.’ And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart.”

Another long pause, and more walking. Then he turned to me and said, “This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”

To this day, I carry a mental image of Stockdale admonishing the optimists: “We’re not getting out by Christmas; deal with it!”

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#109: November 28, 2023, 06:46:31 AM
Great story, thank you very much to share it here. I understand there is a difference between the "short-term optimists" who are expecting and get deceptions, and the "without-term-optimists" like Stockdale who can overcome the trials. My nature is optimistic and I always try to see the good side of what life is throwing to me. So I get this lesson as a reminder of the THS policy "forget the timeline".

I don't expect any improvement in short-term for my W. I hope that one day she will recover and heal. That's why I pray for her, for all the LBS and their spouses.
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M 44, W42. Married 18 years, together 21
3 children D16, D14, S5
OM discovered Dec 22, BD Jan 23 (few days after)
W still living at home
Aimer, c'est donner sans attendre de retour et tout acte est prière, s'il est don de soi (Antoine de Saint Exupéry)
Love means to give without expecting return, and every act is a prayer if it is a self-gift. (thanks OffRoad !)

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#110: November 28, 2023, 07:11:29 AM
Awesome story. Thank you for sharing. May you profit from it 1,000 times over!!
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