[TheShore]

Hey there, lurking here for a while…

My quick story:
BD1 - 1/17, divorce filed but then immediately she put on hold
BD2 - 6/9, served divorce papers officially
At home MLCer, low energy wallower, clinging boomerang (I think at least now), 39 years old
Unresolved childhood trauma and rape.
She is cycling all the time.  Many patterns/examples/too many things to list that fit the MLC mold.
Potential alienator, emotional, affair down for sure, met playing Xbox.  Big red flags regarding keeping all devices locked down.  Trying to gather evidence without snooping.
I blew up at BD1 but picked up the pieces fairly quickly with learnings from HHH, DB, and here.
And last week, twice intimate after ~7 months

My question - she invited me to come with our 2 kids to her parents place up north for the 4th of July weekend.  I’m standing/moving forward…but, should I NOT go because I feel that this is an example of how life would be without me?  Or, should I go to spend some quality time with the kids and potential chance of good interactions with her?  I’m torn…

All comments welcomed, thanks in advance.

[Treasur]

If it helps, experience here seems to show it won’t make any difference at all to her behaviour/the future of your relationship either way. If she’s in crisis, that’s all going on in its own way and at its own pace regardless of what you do or don’t do. Which makes sense if you think about it…you didn’t create this and you can’t fix it, so most of what you do makes no difference in the bigger scheme of things.

So, although it’s hard we know, I’d stop thinking about her/your relationship as a factor in your decision and focus instead on other things. How old are your kids? How close - or not - is your relationship with her family? How much/what does everyone involved know about what is happening? Do you need to be concerned about her taking the kids and not returning them? (And now that papers are filed, have you sought legal advice particularly wrt to your kids?)

Just my opinion, but I’d probably say that once divorce papers have been filed, you are in a different ballgame. (And that’s very hard for most LBS to really swallow so we tend to avoid some of the reality of that for a while, perhaps even to hope it will all just go away?) So, if I were you, I would choose an option that looks like something you see as appropriate if you were in fact already an ex-husband…..if you were, would you go? Essentially, you grit your teeth and make reality more real, I suppose.

 If you were, how would you behave differently than a husband behaves wrt to your kids, your in laws, ypur own approach to those kind of big holiday days, practicalities etc etc? Finances of who pays for what? Reasonable expectations of how co-parenting works if you are divorced? Of what you are prepared to do as an co-parent who is no longer a husband? Or not. And how much you want to tell your kids and others about why/how things are going to be working differently from here on?

Does your wife have a ‘plan’ she has shared with you now she has filed for how she sees things working? Is she planning on moving out? Or does she want you out? What about your kids? And practicalities like money? (I put it in speech marks bc most MLC folks don’t have much of a plan. Well, not much more than ‘I will be magically happy now and everyone should just fall into line to give me what I want at any given moment’!)

I’m very sorry that you find yourself needing to be here but we’re a pretty nice gang and we get how odd and difficult it is to adjust to a life change you never chose for yourself or your family. Again, jmo, but I found that the universe sometimes sends us these kinds of situations to prod us into thinking about all the different options we have as we find a way to adapt and move forward regardless of how previously unimaginable it all is.

[marvin4242]

I completely agree with Treasur's observations and questions. I just wanted add the following.

Where are you emotionally in all this? Are you sure you are not going to expose yourself to a great deal of potential pain and hurt? I can't imagine you are attached and removed enough and what would YOU gain from this?

[OffRoad]

IMO, this is the "See, we are all just fine with the divorce and will continue to behave like a family as long as I feel like it," gathering for your W.

Treasur had great questions. What you do depends on what you want, feel, can deal with. Shortly after BD  for me we we're invited to a party with another family we got together with on a regular basis. I went, and it was weird, at best. Xh was acting not only like nothing was wrong, but was more attentive to me than he'd ever been. Ever. Since I had gone in looking at him like a bug in a terrarium, it was interesting to observe. But had I been in an emotional state, it might have ended badly. It left me more confused because there were no issues between us and he acted like nothing had changed.

If you get along well with her parents, and want to spend quality time with your kids and can avoid taking any bait she might throw out, and are good with pretending it's all fine, go and enjoy.  If you are not good with any of the above, it's probably not a good idea. It all boils down to you and how you feel about it.

I will reiterate what Treasur said about you needing to get a plan in place regarding the kids. Your W doesn't just get to decide she and the kids are going somewhere anymore. What if YOU had plans for the 4th with the kids? Divorce means real consequences if that is her choice.

Eta: make sure you are protected, no matter what happens. Get some legal advice.

[forthetrees]

Do the in-laws know that divorce papers were served? Are they ok with you coming, assuming they know? If they don´t know about the divorce then you will be presenting a fictional family event- are you an Oscar worthy actor or would you take the opportunity to have a conversation with them about what is happening? It all comes down to intention and how YOU feel about it.

[xyzcf]

Hello and welcome to Heros Spouse.

I’m standing/moving forward…but, should I NOT go because I feel that this is an example of how life would be without me?  Or, should I go to spend some quality time with the kids and potential chance of good interactions with her?  I’m torn…

I am a stander.my BD was in 2009.

I decided that being a family, regardless of our marital status was the most important thing. And so, yes, we have gone on several vacations together with our daughter and son in law…and they have been really good family times. We often go to our destination a couple of days before the kids arrive. He stays at my house at Christmas ( our daughter lives out of the country) and also when they spend time here in the summer.

I also have a life totally of my own which I enjoy.

Our daughter enjoys that we can be together as a family…I have no regrets for the decision I made. We are divorced, but I don’t see a piece of legal paper capable of erasing 35 years together. Before his crisis, he was not this person, and we had an amazing life together. The crisis changed him…..I accept that he is different…..but he still is and always will he important to me, and I still love  him.

You are following Heartsblessing, RCR and Divorce Busting, lots of long time research into and experience in this field and if they resonate with you then trust what your inner self is saying.

You wrote “Unresolved childhood trauma and rape.” Often seen in MLCers and a big factor in why they are running away and trying to fill their emptiness.

I think each of our situations are different and we each know what is best for us. If you believe in standing, then allowing the opportunity to spend time together will give you more insight into what is going on in her…..and more understanding of the confusion she is experiencing.

Good luck

[TheShore]

A lot of great feedback already, I appreciate it.  Here are some of my comments/info back:

- I am fairly “detached” atm, emotions are in check.  Therapist is surprisingly very helpful and supportive.  I have my moments but definitely moving forward and in the right mindset
- Been “giving space” since almost the start.  I live in the basement and the main floor while she mostly hides in the bedroom upstairs
- I do have a lawyer, very good, countercomplaint filed and served (she didn’t mention anything)
- There is a 6 month cooling period because we have kids and long backlog in the courts, so this won’t happen over night (a year is my guess if it happens, already big delay after her pausing)
- Funny about the mention of a “plan”, she definitely doesn’t have one.  I’ve asked about when is she moving out and she had no idea how to respond
- There is a protection order so she can stay in the house/status quo until the deal is done.
- I’m good on boundaries / vacation with the kids, I was the one going to take them to my brother’s on the 4th but the date didn’t work so I’m taking them later in the month (I haven’t offered her to go and she hasn’t asked either)
- Figuring out what a MLCer will do is like herding cats
- I did press a bit on “why” she wanted me to go… she offered again and her answer was that she likes hanging out with me
- Right of spouse, those 3 words are stuck in my head.  I’ll go on the trip if I want to.  If she was truly still my spouse and wanted me to go, I would be there in a heartbeat, even unwillingly
- Kids (S8, D10) and I are on great terms, we just had an awesome weekend together while W ran to her moms up north.  I can really see she is not as close as she once was with them.  Myself on the other hand have created some new and great memories with them over the last ~6 months
- @Offroad, your 1st sentence hits home - she is the daughter of divorced parents so that is the norm / another thing that has set the stage
- I think most the people there will know - the father and brother in laws both have a place up there.  I think they are rooting for me/everything to work out, but I will NOT discuss the topic with them (based on HHH guidance, makes sense to me).  I only ask for them to help my W whenever they can because she really needs help
- I most likely would NOT go if we were divorced / I was the ex H, at least that’s my current mindset
- I’ve heard/read that if one is asking the question if they should still be standing for the marriage, then the answer is obvious
- I have told her one time that I married her and not her disease/illness/depression, I will be standing for the marriage until D, and it was like she was in total agreement/understood (I call her depression “la bête noire” or the dark beast)

Thanks for all the comments and feedback.  I’m leaning towards NOT going now, but I’m still open to the discussion.

All feedback and questions still welcomed.
Thanks again.

[Standing Strong]

Hey Nor,

You're seven months in....... there's no way she's trying to put things together, not at this point. That's WAY into the future (if at all).
There's a ton of pitfalls right in front of you, but you don't know what to look for (not your fault).
This isn't the simplicity of "do I go, or not?" because what you think is happening.... isn't.
Choosing one action or the other implies a result based on that action - and that isn't something you control right now.

Take some comfort that is doesn't really matter which you choose at this point.
If you're going to have some good time with the kids - there you go. Easy decision.

-SS

[UrsaMajor]

IMO, this is the "See, we are all just fine with the divorce and will continue to behave like a family as long as I feel like it," gathering for your W.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

Been there, done this, would rather have had my squishy bits pounded flat with a ballpeen hammer than do it again.... 

If you think you can spend the time acting as if she is the weird cousin Mary that lives in the basement and treat her as such - civilly but without any emotional attachment - and not get your back up when the revisionist history is being spouted to her family (you DO realize that, at the moment, you are 2nd cousin to Satan and the root of all her problems, right?), then knock yourself out. Just be ready for the possibility/probability that she will be spinning some tall tale to justify her reasons for filing the D, where you are the bad guy.

[KayDee]

Dear Nor, I am so sorry you are here. Some great advice here for you already, I just want to flag, again, that there are two major, life altering, issues your W has left undealt with. And they are not the sort of thing that can stay buried in a person’s psyche forever. And now, here they are. They’ve burst out the sides and blown the lid off.  And she won’t just click back into shape. So, the issue about going to the in-laws, it’s a moot point really. I remember when my xH imploded, we were due to go on holiday, and I couldn’t work out that small detail. And I look back now and think how small an issue this was in what turned out to be a catastrophe for both him and me. I was pretty innocent then about the scale of this implosion. And in my experience, MLC (or whatever we call this major depressive AND destructive event) it really does get worse before it gets better. I think the getting ‘better’ part, that happens quicker for the spouses. But the crisis person –  yes, they do get worse. And worse is revealed. Please brace yourself – this has likely been on the boil for longer than you think.

The best mantra I had, in the first 6 – 12 months, was to remind myself daily to have zero expectations and to make decisions based on what I wanted or needed to do. Not based on past history or with the notion that what I did had a particular effect on my xH. I wasn’t selfish, I was always kind. I never initiated contact. And I dropped the proverbial rope completely. It was / is really hard.  I know it is different when you have kids, but at the same time, you have a strong motivation to be your best self for them. They will need a steady force in the coming years.