[Arcticfox]

Hello,

I´m new around here. Not a native English speaker so please forgive any mistakes.

I was living the life I have dreamed of, in a house we built together with my dear husband. We have been together for 23 years now. We both fell in love with each other at first sight as university students and everybody including us has thought we are a match made in heaven. We have 3 lovely sons, oldest is special needs and for the past few years things have been challenging with him but lately it has been getting better. My H has been depressed since last autumn and not been able to pinpoint the reason, so i have been tried to be there for him and assumed it is his new job position as he is getting used to the leadership responsibility. It got to the point that he couldn´t sleep at night so he decided to see a psychologist so i thought things would start to get better on that front as well.

After the 1st visit with the psychologist H dropped the bomb that same night. He told me he has fallen in love with another woman. He wants a divorce because that same day he had confessed his love to this Woman at Work, and she was not interested in a relationship, but in H´s thinking if he were divorced there might be a tiny chance that the Woman from Work might change her mind. Also H let me know that he cares about me as we have been together for a long time but he does not love me any more.

Needless to say I was devastated. I had been taking out relationship for granted, sure that we would be together till death do us part and content with that. As my husband declared he wants a divorce, I realized just important he is to me, and how much I still love him. This BD shattered my whole world and destroyed my hope of financial security as well (I am a part time stay at home mum and we have agreed on this together with my H, that he will be the breadwinner and I will do more at home and take the kids to appointments, hobbies etc… stupid me).

After that day things got alternatively hot and cold between us as my husband seemed to he vacillating between staying or leaving. He had another discussion about there relationship with WW and from what I have been told, for her it was always just a deep friendship. But for my H an EA and he had believed that she reciprocated. Nevertheless, H wants to move out of out house to think about things which I dont understand really as we are now having the best discussions ever (he has been the typical man who won´t  talk about feelings but now he does), whenever we go out we have fun together even in this situation. He said after BD that i am his best friend, now he says i am his buddy… but he is having hard time keeping his hands off me?! And vice versa. He wants to watch netflix with me every evening so why does he need to get out? And break the childrens´ home and family?

I guess there has been so much anxiety and depression that he just feels  the need to get out. He is feeling better atm but still says he has anxiety and sadness. Before BD he has described that he felt all the time like he will die if he can´t be with WW. Also, he is not 100% over what i feel is limerice towards WW, wanting to understand better why she is not interested in him? And wanting to be friends with her. H has also repeatedly mentioned dating and setting up a tinder profile. I am his first and only partner ever and he feels he missed out in his youth as he was too shy. He has always excercised regularly but is now ramping it up and apparently worried of weakening muscles as he ages. Had his hormones tested (everything okay), is thinking of his appearance and changed the way he dresses.

He is in the process of moving out, rented an apartment nearby so the kids can stay week/week. I feel the teens will not necessarily agree to this. Dog will stay with me but if we don´t reconcile this will eventually lead to the sale of out family home as it is too large and expensive for a family with only one adult. I never in my worst nightmares thought that something liike this could happen to us, and everybody we know is flabbergasted as well as they cannot imagine H acting liike this. He has been the most honest, trustworthy and reliable person anybody knows. And a family man. I feel like I don´t know him anymore. (Or maybe I never did?) I have occasionally seen the monster too but for the most part we are amicable, even kissing and cuddling and comforting each other in this situation. This does not make any sense to me at all.

Sure, looking back out marriage was on the back burner becuse of kids and careers and everyday life, but we sometimes did small getaways and had kisses and hugs every day and the bedroom was far from cold. I would like to get that back and while I am realizing I must be prepared for anything, like him marrying someone else, I can´t see a better outcome for myself (and also for H) that reconciling. He has multiple times expressed a worry that he is making a mistake, but he is still determined to move out, be separated and live as a single man, he can´t say what his goals are.

For now I have chosen to stand. I have not told him this. I no longer bother him with I love yous. And am refusing sex even though we both would like it. But if he can´t even say he likes me, and doesn´t want to live with me, i have to respect myself. (For the record I think he does at least like if not love me, his head is just messed up. Or I am fooling myself, but I am basing this on his behavior.) He has said in Marital therapy that he fell out of love with me 4 years ago though… and I did notice some anxiety/crankiness in him on the Eve of out 20th marital anniversary last summer that I wondered about.

In any case I wish there was some way to know whether he will ever return home, or even what are the chances of reconciliation happening. Does anybody have any statistics on this? Any opinions, advice or whatever you want to say is also greatly appreciated!

[UrsaMajor]

"Welcome "to the HS forum, a place where we NEVER wanted to ever need.... But the people here will be glad that you found us.

OK, first and foremost, H sounds to me like he read Page 18 of "How to have a Mid-Life Crisis for Dummies" and is determined to live it out to the brutal end. Does that mean 100% that a divorce is in the wings? Maybe, maybe not.
However, the most important thing to keep in mind is that YOU did not cause this crisis and YOU can not do anything to fix it. This is HIS crisis, 100% with all the consequences that go along with it. You have about as much influence on the trajectory of his crisis as you would be going outside as a tornado is bearing down on you and trying to change is course by yelling really loudly and flapping your arms at it.
Second, if he is talking divorce and has already rented an apartment, you need to lawyer up pronto. Mid-Lifers can burn through cash like water flowing over Niagara Falls and you do not want to be in a position of having your savings (what there is) suddenly goi9ng up in smoke or to an OW or whatever lifestyle H wants to lead now. Make sure that you are legally and financially protected. MLC'ers HATE having to deal with consequences and responsibility. Their "word of honor" has absolutely ZERO value. They can (and do) change their minds at the drop of a hat to whatever they think will make them happy at any moment in time.
Third, protect yourself physically. H says he is "in lurve" with some woman at work and that is not reciprocated. OK... Bully for him. That doesn't mean that he is not doing the Mattress Mambo with her or someone else. TO put it bluntly, you can tell an MLC'er is lying because their lips are moving. They will tell you what they think you want to hear because it suits their needs and keeps them form having to face mean old Mr. Reality and the associated results/consequences of their actions.

In my tag line, there is a link to "Guidance for Newbies" that will lead you to a whole bunch of articles written up by RollercoasterRider (RCR who owns this Website/Forum. Take a look at them and have a good read because they will help you understand a bit of what s going on in your life and what you will need to do or at least consider as you move forward through the jungle that is MLC.

Finally, feel free to post when and as often as you wish. This forum is made of people from all over the globe (I am in Germany for example) so there is usually SOMEONE online somewhere at any one time. Please also post to your thread until it reaches 150 posts before starting a new topic/thread. That helps us as Admins to keep a handle on the number of threads that are running at any one time. You can also look through the other stories that are here and see if some of the experiences of others rings a bell with you or sounds familiar. There are about as many different kinds of Mid-Lifers as there are grains of sand on a beach and, while there will be similarities, no one will be experiencing the situation exactly the same way as you are so some of the advice my be applicable and some may be for the trash can. Take what fits for you and discard what doesn't.

Like I said at the beginning, welcome. We are sorry that you needed to find us but glad that you did.

Ursa

[Arcticfox]

Thank you for the well thought out post Ursa! I will certainly return to read it many times. Some ”tough love” but that must be exactly the right attitude to take now.

Funny how there seems to be a guidebook for MLCers, before finding this site I have discussed this with a relative whose H pulled kinda similar stunt on her (he was exactly the same age as my H is now). And they are using some exactly same sentences! I would like to read the guidebook they´re using to have some idea what is to come 

Oh btw I am in Europe as well

[Treasur]

Luckily for you, this forum does have at least a partial guidebook and a lot of experience. That’s the good news.

The bad news is that - regardless of what happens in ypur future relationship with your h - the reality of your world, and probably most of the pieces in it that matter most to you, have now changed beyond recognition. It’s just too big an upending to go back to an ‘old normal’ although understandably most of us try to for a while. This isn’t a blip or a hiccup in an otherwise safe and solid life….it’s a tornado and it throws all the pieces up in the air. It’s hard to predict how some of those pieces will fall. Even your h probably doesn’t know and he is the one throwing all the pieces in the air. I would encourage you to try to sit with that feeling for a little while before you jump into big actions or reactions. That life can still be good but it will never be the same for any of you. I am so sorry. Let yourself feel that and allow yourself all the feelings you feel, including grief for the losses.

You asked about statistics and, if you’ve been reading here, you probably know that they are not good for your marriage. If I had to guess, I’d say probably less than 5% keep a marriage worth having. Most LBS end up divorced. Most end up navigating at least a couple of years of chaos and uncertainty. Most find that things get a bit worse before they get better. Most slowly come to the realisation that this is not a ‘normal’ kind of marital break up and that, whatever it is, you do not control it and you can’t fix it bc you didn’t cause it. That’s a hard thing to wrap your head around too, isn’t it, after decades together?

So, what can you do? Well, you are very wise to pull back and not play on whatever nonsensical fantasy ‘you’re my best sexy buddy that I want to divorce’ merry go round game he has in his head. If only bc that’s not how sane sensible adults see the world….you don’t decide to divorce people bc you love them and want a shared future. And you don’t expect everything to stay the same or that others are not going to treat you differently if that’s the choice you make. You are a sane smart adult woman and you know that; it’s just a horrible thing to experience and accept.

You may find that him moving out actually makes it easier for you and the kids to see the wood for the crazy trees and find your own path forward. How much do your kids know? How are they responding to it all? Based on what you have shared so far, I’d encourage you to take some legal and financial advice - you don’t have to act on it but information can be helpful. Do you have a support system other than your kids? Family? Good safe friends? If you do, I’d encourage you to tell some of them what is going on for you bc this stuff is hard and confusing, and the support of others can make it easier for you to be a support for your kids.

You can do all of these things while ‘standing’ if you wish and indeed could see it as you safeguarding as much of your shared life and resources and family until or unless your h chooses a different path. And if he doesn’t, these things will still help you and your kids navigate the chaos and protect yourselves from the effects of it the best you can.

Post whenever you want about anything you need. I doubt there is anything you might say that most of us have not thought, felt or done x

[Arcticfox]

Thank you for your reply Treasur!

I am lucky to have some good friends that I have told about this catastrophe, and also a few relatives that I can count on for emotional  support. The in-laws are completely on my side in this and feel that their son (my H) is making the mistake of his life. Unfortunately no-one can turn his head, even the former MLCr relative who has since said that he was not right in the head back then.

Their story is kind of a reconciliation story as he moved out for a night or two to live with the AW, but then returned. Unfortunately their marriage has not been the same since (that happened about 2 years ago). They are together but neither of them is happy. He is in depression regretting what he has done, and his wife says she does not love him any more and is not sure if the feeling will ever come back. They´re staying together for the kids and trying to make it work but I feel sorry for them both.

As for my situation it is definitely true that there will be no going back to what I thought we had, as H has been my bedrock that I have trusted 100% so even if he returns things will be different. Actually in the first weeks after BD when things were going quite well between us, I told him that if he can surprise me like this after 23 years together, it will probably take 25 years before I can trust him again.

Well, as he is moving out (rented an apartment, got keys two days ago and was buying furniture today) it is too early to think of reconciliation, rather he is getting more and more withdrawn and unfortunately seems to be mentally feeling better and better as he prepares to move out completely. He does seem to understand what a disaster this is for me, and is sad about it. (Said he feels like he is the joker). He did try to get under my dress today though   

It will probably be better emotionally for me and the kids when he is not around here. Then I think the reality will truly sink in for me. The kids are really nonchalant about this all and refusing to discuss it. I do not know what I should or can do about it. I am expecting a lot of emotional fallout later.

[WHY]

Sorry you found us Arctic .

I don’t have much to add. The advice here is sound.  But for the fellow LBS here.  It’s uncanny just how similar all these stories all are…….  It’s like the MLCers are legit following a Ctrl-P template.  And it’s tragic for those left behind. 

If I could give myself my own advice back then. Knowing what I know now.  I’d have got out from the beginning. 

Holding on.  Justifying their actions. Having hope.   It was not worth the psychological abuse and torture that I had to endure and I’ll be carrying those scars for the rest of my life.   

I should have seen it for what it was.  A brutal betrayal.  And I wish I’d moved on sooner. 

Find your own path.  Do what’s right for you.  But reaching acceptance sooner than later about what’s happened will only benefit you IMO. 

Really sorry for what’s happened .  But know that there is light at the end of the tunnel.   

[Arcticfox]

Thank you WHY

H says he wants to be separated and live as a single person but not divorce. (No legal separation in my country and no laws against adultery). He has said that he wishes that I would wait for him but does not want to ask, because he does not know what decision he will make in the end (whether he will want to return home). I know I will hurt so much more before things are over, no matter what happens. I would be easiest just to cut my losses and get on with my life, but unfortunately I feel that I am not ready to do that yet. After all he has had years to process this and I was totally blindsided and for me the love is still there. It is uncanny how similar most of the LBS stories are.

[Treasur]

H says he wants to be separated and live as a single person but not divorce.

Ok. We understand that right now you are not ready to take certain actions. You’re not alone in that and we get it.

So, let’s get practical on what ‘separated’ and ‘live as a single person’ might mean for you and your kids as there is no legal separation where you live. Right now it sounds as if your h is basically saying ‘I am taking a vacation from being married and from family life to live as if I am a single man again’, for an undefined period of time with no end date. That probably feels to you (and to him) as if all the power rests in his hands, but you do have options on how you approach this even if you are not ready to file for divorce.

Finances - what financial arrangements have you agreed? Have you locked down things like joint credit cards or accounts to minimise your liability to any debt he creates financing his new single life? What do you expect/need him to contribute to support you and the kids? Will you and the kids still be covered for things like health insurance or still remain as legal beneficiaries of his will or similar?

Amount and type of contact - how often/little do you both wish to see each other and for what? What do you expect from each other in terms of family life or things that are no longer shared? And what method would work best for communication? Kid/school events? Medical needs? Emergencies? Will you both have a key to each others homes? And if not, will you make arrangements in advance if either wish to come to the others home for any reason? (And I’d be very surprised if his ‘plan’ is anything but one-sided right now but that’s no reason for you not to have the right to have some boundaries and working rules of your own for this separated way of living that he has decided he wants)

Kids - in addition to the practicalities of financial support, what are the arrangements for how and where the kids will spend their time? Along with all the kid practicalities that this involves - school, pick up and drop off, where they will sleep at his new apartment, how to manage schedules. Plus of course what your kids feel ok with or don’t.

Wife/husband appliance duties - most LBS find this a hard adjustment and most MLCers are happy to assume that they get to have their cake and eat it! But these things still are often practical things as well as emotional ones. It’s normal to expect things from each other after decades of being a team, but living separated lives means changes to that. What sort of things will you no longer be available to do? Might be small things like laundry or dinner or mowing the lawn, bigger things like general life admin or areas of life that are no longer appropriate to share like emotional support or health issues or social activities. And what cuts one way should cut the other imho. How will your expectations of each others involvement in certain things adapt to these new circumstances? How much of his personal ‘stuff’ is he taking with him and, as you are not a human storage unit, what does he intend to do about everything he isn’t taking with him?

And a review/end date - you don’t have to discuss, let alone negotiate or agree any of the new boundaries you want to put in place. And I’d be very surprised if your h has given much thought at all to a whole bunch of things that are at the forefront of your mind right now. However, at its most simple, your h is asking you to sign up to an unclear period of limbo for an unspecified period of time with unclear conditions. It’s ok for you to put your own mental review point on that - 6 months? A year? - and then decide to review it and see how you feel. And you don’t have to share that review point with him - it’s for you bc limbo is a very hard way to live, and he has already told you he has no end date in mind. But if you need one, it’s ok to have one even if it changes.

Right now, you and your h are on very different pages. You are probably hurt, confused and fearful. He is probably feeling rather relieved and a bit giddy with excitement about his new ‘magic happy’ escape to single man life. He is the one leaving; you are the one being left. You are probably hoping this will all blow over and he will find out that the new life isn’t what he wants. He is probably assuming that it will all work out swimmingly, you will all stay great friends and everyone will slowly adjust to what he wants in his new life. Which means that, practically speaking, you are looking through very different windows and have different priorities.

My very best advice for you - although I suspect you may not feel ready to take it yet - is to give him the single life he wants and then some. To withdraw yourself from his life, his problems and his way of living as much as you can, and to take back your life from his gaze too. Say very little. Look for support and comfort from others. Let him figure out the practicalities of his new chosen life without your opinion or help. Have as little contact or conversation as you can while being civil. Let him figure out how to be a parent or how to deal with looking after himself or how to deal with his own life admin without your help. You look after you and your kids and your own life. Let him fully experience the reality of his new chosen life with all the predictable consequences that come with it…..try to see it as having been fired from your wife and partner and best friend job….take your time to figure out what that means for your new life even if it isn’t one you wanted or chose.

[Arcticfox]

Thank you again, so much good advice… there is so much wisdom and experience on this Forum that I feel I can´t take it all in as fast as the good advice is coming!

Indeed I feel like H has all the power in this situation. Basically the only thing I can do is file a divorce which I don´t want to do. Even if it would make sense financially as everything we own would be split in two and divided between us. And it would be his loss after that if he spends all his savings or gets into debt after filing (during the 6 month consideration period). I feel like I´m a gambler and the stakes are way too high for my taste.

But I am trying to draw what boundaries I can. I have read some of the site and the journals here and listened to the advice of my friends and I see that the only way H will even consider ever returning is if I can truly leave him on his own. And if we end up divorcing, that too will be easier on me that way, and I will have some self-respect.


It is hard as I have been the life admin and I fear the kids will suffer. Some of H´s stuff will necessarily remain here as this is a big house, and some tools etc are needed here and can´t be stored at the apartment. But I have told him that he may not come and go on his own but will need to arrange with me if he wants to pick something up. Otherwise I intend to only communicate on kid-related things, not try to engage him in any discussions about other topics.

We agreed to meet in marital therapy in the end on august.

As for myself I have set a time limit of 6 months, when I will re-evaluate the situation. At this point I feel if there is not a glimmer of hope I might need to make some decisions. But I will also allow myself to prolong or shortening that period according to how I feel  and I haven´t told him about this.

H had not even thought that he will not then be seeing out dog anymore (apartment is no pets allowed). He was a bit shocked as I said so. He said maybe the kids can come pick the dog up and they can then take the dog for a walk together. I am not a big fan of him sending the kids on his errands to what will be my home, but also dont want to tell the kids they can´t take the dog out or come to what I feel is their real home. Out places are 400m apart so this is easy for practical purposes (kids can walk/bus to schools from both places) but otherwise maybe not ideal because we will probably sometimes bump into each other. We have planned that the kids will stay week/week.

The middle son has already said he does not want to go stay with his dad though, would only like to visit sometimes. Not my can of worms really, I will not force him even though it would be important to have a relationship with son and father, I will not stand in the way but it is ultimately between the two of them.

[KayDee]

Dear Arctic Fox,

Sorry you are here.... I could have pretty much wrote your first post myself, back in the day, except , no kids.

I can hear your brain whirring away from here - attempting to sort out this and that - the dog, the tools, the house. I would encourage you to drop these just for a moment. All you need to really think about is securing your finances and getting emotional support (for you, and the kids). And, putting in some boundaries with H so that you can achieve the latter. The rest can wait for a while. Take time to feel what you feel, scream into a pillow, and cry when you need to. It's understandable you feel like you H has all the 'power' at the moment because you've been smashed into pieces by a giant emotional hammer. You will feel crushed, traumatized. It's awful. That's why you need to give yourself some grace for a while. It sounds like a platitude, but it is not. You must deploy self-care, this event can make you seriously ill.

The dust of the hammer blow/BD will slowly clear and you will see more clearly. Feel more able and see a way forward. When it happened to me, I was like you. I went into 'do' overdrive, and the kind folk here told me to slow down and take care. And, that doing nothing is sometimes doing something. And in this case, it is channeling energies to where they are needed.

Your H is a classic 'MLC'er. They don't have a plan (see above 'dog'). My H hadn't even worked out that he wouldn't be able to drive off to his new adventure in the car I owned. He couldn't even figure out how to physically leave (funny, in a dark way, now I look back on it). And BTW, he used the tools in the garage as an excuse to come back every 5 minutes. It wore me down so I divided them in half and sent them to him - and he was living like a monk in a box room at the time (this was his new happy BTW). Nothing healthy comes from them popping in all the time (often when you are not there) .

Your H is immature. They all are. It seems most of them missed a step in their maturation, and when things get tough they run. They deploy a childhood response. My observation is that this is often when the spouse is distracted (kids, illness, demands at work etc). The MLC type is often dependent, and in the absence of the 'fixing' spouse, looks for other forms of validation and reassurance.  Enter, stage left the OP or EA.

They are depressed, yes. They are also damaging to others and  extremely self-centred . We have to hold both facts in our head. Which is hard.

If the whole thing wasn't so devastating, it would be a cliche teenage drama. Even the phrase ILYBINILWY is what teenagers say to each other when they break up. My teenage friends and I used to laugh about what a cliche that was, even then.

Your H has careered off the rails, he doesn't realise how much off the track he is at the moment, but alas, he has put in motion something he can no longer control. And it will likely get worse, based on his obvious lack of mature coping skills. Righting a derailed train is not in his skill-set. But I suspect keeping things on track is in yours, once you have had time to reassemble a bit.

As Treasur often says  - slow your roll a bit. You will be OK. We all are in the end.