[HeavenlyFocus]

Here is my new thread.  I will add a more detailed message later this weekend.

HF

[JohnnyBravo]

R2T mentioned supplements at the end of your previous thread... One of the books I read recommended GABA, which is supposed to slow activity in the brain (it's a neruotransmitter). I've been taking it, and I'm not sure if it's working or I'm just calming down over time.

R2T, any info on GABA?

JB

[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi JB,

I am aware of GABA but haven't taken it before.  Would be interested to get other's feedback.

Journaling:

Well, this past week has been good for me as I just slowed down had some downtime without the kids.   I am a point where I know I am moving forward in the right direction and making good decisions on the big things (Kids, Job Search, Healthy Eating/Exercise, Good Sleep).  My job search is going well and a couple of other opportunities have popped up which are interesting and could be good fits for me.

As for my XW, I continue to hear about her firm kids about her struggles with close relationships with friends here locally as well as some issues managing her motherly duties.   She appears to be trying as a Mom which I am grateful.   Just tough to watch her self-destruct with key relationships.   It has provided me complete confirmation of her MLC and I know I can't directly help her through her journey right now.   Tough to do as I always was her caretaker and was her Rock to help her through the hard times.   I am at a point where I have accepted reality and will let time work to heal me and my XW over time.  We are on our own journeys for now.

HF

[Standing Strong]

  Tough to do as I always was her caretaker and was her Rock to help her through the hard times.   I am at a point where I have accepted reality and will let time work to heal me and my XW over time.  We are on our own journeys for now.

Hey HF 

Oh I can soooooo relate to this. It's tough isn't it? That role we have (or used to have).... to be the protector, leader, fixer, rock and strength....... hard to let go.
There is a positive aspect to it though..... she has to learn to do some of this for herself, and if she wakes up later, can actually/totally/really appreciate what you do/did. Very awesome all that's going on in your life 

-SS
 

[MadLuv]

HF- I think that is the hardest part for detachment is the care giver role. You have no idea how much energy you put into that role until you try stop it. There is also the part of guilt that plays a role in it. Not deserved, but we feel bad that if we don’t continue that they will fall harder. For me now just finding out my XH has been married for months is just giving me that relief to let that role go. That is someone else’s issue, someone that has job idea their are issues or afraid to take her rose colored glasses off.

[HeavenlyFocus]

Good time to journal as much has happened over the past 4 weeks although things with the MLCer still appear to be the status quo.   The good news is I have had multiple interviews over the past couple of weeks and I think I may have an offer as soon as this week.   Also doing some contract work for the time being which will feels productive.   Really looking forward to getting back to work full time which should come as my severance runs out.  Good timing!   

As for XW, she seems to be in some inner battle with herself.   She had about a 7 to 10 day period of not feeling well and I was able to help out with the kids while the kids were with her during her week.   She actually even apologized to me for not feeling well, and I let her now that she never has to apologize with her chronic illness.  I still sympathize with her long-term health struggles although there are many other things that she needs to apologize for.  Maybe someday I will get one. 

As for the OM, still no public disclosure although he still appears to be in the picture based on her not being home one morning when our D needed something from her place.   Still can't believe that she has kept it hidden for over 2 years.  Craziness!

Well, learning to let the craziness go and treat her as a long lost relative that I still need to co-parent with.  Gotta live my own life now.

HF

[Ready2Transform]

R2T mentioned supplements at the end of your previous thread... One of the books I read recommended GABA, which is supposed to slow activity in the brain (it's a neruotransmitter). I've been taking it, and I'm not sure if it's working or I'm just calming down over time.

R2T, any info on GABA?

JB

Hey JB! Sorry, I just caught this! I've actually just gone back on GABA myself. I took it within the first few years post-BD, and it was effective for me (or like you, sort of in conjunction with returning to a normal state). I was having some sleep disturbances over the last few months and so far, along with meditation, it's helping.

Well, learning to let the craziness go and treat her as a long lost relative that I still need to co-parent with.  Gotta live my own life now.

Doing good, HF! Congrats on all the good news on the work front!

[PJ Ames]

Following along HF.

[Standing Strong]

Weird how they don't/can't admit eh HF?

I wonder if by the time they get around to being in a position to make a real switch, the feelings have worn down and they don't even want that anymore?

I'm so glad you're doing so well 

-SS

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thank you Ready, PJ, and SS for your continued support.

Big news to share today!   I received an offer and accepted a job.   I am going through the pre-hiring process right now and will start in May.   It is such a huge relief and will help as I move forward on my journey.   I am now planning to move to a house in the summer and my kids are really excited too.  I'm ready for some fun and positive memories this year after a difficult two years.   

HF

[xyzcf]

That is fantastic news HF!!!!

Congratulations!!!

[JohnnyBravo]

Excellent! Congrats!

[Curiosity]

Wonderful news, HF! Wishing you all the best in this new chapter. I think I’ve said it before, but it beats repeating - your journey has been a true inspiration to me and I’m sure to many others. You are the very picture of what success on this journey means.

[Treasur]

Great news, HF! Well done!

[UrsaMajor]

Congratulations! That has to be a REAL relief for you and one less thing to have to worry about

[MadLuv]

Congratulations on the new job and moving forward in New ways. I think this is fantastic!!! Specially, with a new job comes new interactions and progress and that gives new things to talk about and discuss with others. For me one of the hardest things was to be around people discussing their lives and I had not much to offer. With a new job there will be more new things to chat about. Congratulations again!!!

[MomOfSteel]

Congrats!  I’m glad you found a new job!

[FaithWalker]

Congrats on the new job and moving house this Summer!  Very happy for you HF!

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thank you everyone for all your kind wishes.  I have so thankful for all of your support.

Well things are moving fast as I have more good news.   I have put in my notice for my apartment and found a house to rent which will be better for me and my D's.   I am really excited as it has a study so I can work from home remotely and has plenty of space for my D's.   

It is a little bittersweet though as I think about the housing market and what might have been had we stayed put with either of the houses that we owned prior to and during the MLC.   We sold and bought a home the year before the BD.  I know I can't take money with me, and I'm grateful that I am debt free while no longer having any risk of excessive spending by my XW.  I guess it just irks me that my XW and I are spending all this money individually on rent in this hot housing market.

My XW also continues to have chronic health issues which required me to help out more with the kids lately.   I don't mind as I love being a father to my kids, and I had to do this all throughout our marriage too.   I guess it's just weird now as I have to help out more for my kids sake while she struggles with her MLC and health.    She also has been asking me for help as a caretaker.    I feel conflicted as she fired me from that role and yet she still turns to me for help.   I continue to be cordial helping when appropriate, especially when she asks with the kids around.  I still think I need to set some boundaries too as I start my job soon.

In summary, I have a job and an exciting place for my kids and me to live at.   At the same time, I see the destruction that the MLC has had in my life, and I still am working to show compassion for my XW while detaching and focusing on my own journey.

Thanks for letting me share joy and vent at the same time tonight.

HF

[Standing Strong]

WooHooo HF 

Things are looking up!! That's wonderful 

A caretaker eh? That doesn't surprise me at all. Survival trumps MLC, she knows you as a trustworthy person..... probably THE most trustworthy person.

I'm so glad and happy things are going well for ya.

-SS

[KellBell]

I see the destruction that the MLC has had in my life, and I still am working to show compassion for my XW while detaching and focusing on my own journey.

^^^ this! It really is freeing to finally be able to be in a place where you can focus on YOU and your journey and thoughts of them don't consume your energy. I really do feel like in some of our situations we can GAL and detach, yet still have compassion for our x. It's not a weakness or step in the wrong direction. Compassion and kindness are not faults. I feel I can be kind to my x without any expectations or reciprocation. That doesn't mean I am a doormat. I still guard myself and shut things down when they go too far or want too much...but I really don't think we have to change who we are fundamentally because they are having a crisis. Just never lose sight of your limits. And it's ok to say no. I also think that although being the bigger person sucks- not adding more drama to the chaos is a good example for the kids. Just my take...

glad you found a great place for you and the kids!!

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thx SS and KellBell for your support.

Journal Update

Well, I started my job and it feels so good to be back to work.   After one week,  I think it's going to be a good fit, and I already see where I can help the new team that I just joined.   Also great to be busy during the day so I have other things to focus on in my life. 

I also would share that my XW is still having health issues but seems to getting treatment after multiple doctor visits.   She seems to want to share updates on her health situation though calls and texts.  I continue to listen and be sympathetic while still keeping my distance.  Need to guard my heart as I was her caretaker and she clearly hasn't totally severed the co-dependent care taking need from our relationship.

I honestly have no idea what is going through her head right now but it must be challenging for her to face her current health issues.   All I know is that I don't ever want to be a plan B or fall back plan just because life became difficult.

I continue to focus on my healing and am open to all possibilities in my life moving forward.   

HF

[FaithWalker]

HF, I hope the job is continuing to be a great fit!

Hopefully the treatment is continuing to help your xW with her health issues.  It does seem to me that she still hasn't fully accepted the consequences of her choices and you have a lot of grace for her.  That says a lot about you.  I'm glad that you can see that you need to guard your heart and that you aren't plan B material. 

I saw a meme recently that said "don't ever let anyone treat you like free salsa, you're guacamole baby.  You. Are. Guacamole." and it made me laugh.

[HeavenlyFocus]

I saw a meme recently that said "don't ever let anyone treat you like free salsa, you're guacamole baby.  You. Are. Guacamole." and it made me laugh.

Hi FW,

This made me laugh and I have already used this in a conversation that I had with someone.  Ha! 

Quick Journal:  I am extremely busy with the new job and I'm getting ready to move.  Will have an update as there is a lot a going with my XW.  I am doing well staying detached why still doing the right thing for my kids.   Will share more details when I have time and energy. 

HF

[JohnnyBravo]

Glad to see you check in, HF, and it certainly sounds like you have a lot going on... Hang in there!

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thanks JB.  Hope you hang in there too.  It’s been 5 months since decree was finalized for me and there are days I still can’t believe it.  It is getting easier with each day. 

HF

[FaithWalker]

Good to hear from you HF.  I hope the move is going well.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am so glad to hear about the job and the progress you are making. You have really made a lot of progress in the almost two years since bomb drop. In that time period, you have dealt with your w's mlc, a divorce, moving, and finding a new job. Yet, you have handled all with such positive energy and a focus on what is best for your children. So I raise a toast to you! "Happy Father's Day!"

I also would share that my XW is still having health issues but seems to getting treatment after multiple doctor visits.   She seems to want to share updates on her health situation though calls and texts.  I continue to listen and be sympathetic while still keeping my distance.

There is a lot at play here. I have been on the forum for many years and find it fascinating that some MLCers maintain a connection or aspect of the marriage even after the divorce and for some even after marrying the alienator. It varies in context. Some maintain the need to discuss a variety of issues and others even complain about the new spouse to the old spouse. Like really?

I think it is best you keep your distance. She fired you as a husband. I mean it is if my old job called me up and asked me for my opinion on a decision. I would be polite, but no, I don't work for you anymore. I also agree that you can sympathize with her, but not empathize with her. Sympathy is caring about another person's problems and feelings; empathy is deeply understanding her thoughts and feelings as you did in the past.

In many ways, your sympathetic response is setting a solid boundary for your mental health and wellbeing.

Have a great day,

((((Ready))))

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thanks FW and Ready for you continued support.   Time to journal as there has been a lot of good things going on in my life as well as some movement with XW.

First, I have settled into my home and am absolutely am loving it.  My girls are enjoying the home too and have already had friends over in the first week.  The previous place wasn't ideal but it was best I could do to keep my girls in their desired schools.  My new job is also going well, and I'm about ready to start a new project.   It's exciting to be starting new work as I can feel all the change this year has been positive.

In the past week, I have finally felt peace that I haven't felt for years.   No drama has been wonderful and my kids seem to be thriving right now.  It's enough for me right now and I am grateful for the recent changes in my life.

As for my XW, there definitely has been some movement.   Since she has been sick over the past couple of months,  it has seemed to change her somewhat.   She hasn't Monstered with me at all and in fact has been very pleasant.   We have been co-parenting well together and she seems more invested in the kids now which is so different from BD when she seemed to care less about the kids.   Not sure if this will continue as she starts to feel better but for now I will take the peace that has come with this change.

As it is almost 2 years since BD, it seems to align with the timing potentially when a MLCer can start to exit replay.   At this point, I am not obsessing over her changes.   It's just important to note that Monster has gone away,  we are starting to reconnect at least as co-parents, and she has been contacting me more in the past 2 months.   She even took the kids to get me a thoughtful Father's day gift.   I haven't received anything thoughtful in the past 3-4 years so it was a nice change.

I also have been going back to review both RCR's and Hearts Blessing articles with the recent movement.   Not sure what will happen but I want to be prepared if XW continues her movement.   I am open to all options in my life and remain detached.  Letting her contact me and I will mirror her behavior for the time being.

I also am taking care of our dog this week who lives with XW.   With my new job's travel, having a dog permanently will not work  in my life.  It has been nice to have our dog back at my place.  I am planning to take her for a walk tonight as the temperatures are finally going to cool down here.

Will keep everyone updated on my progress.   I have moving forward and am grateful for the insights from all of you on this forum.

HF

[MadLuv]

Interesting update…will continue to follow to see if she continues some positive movement forward. So smart to read up all you can to prepare!!

[Curiosity]

HF, your story is truly an inspiration. Whatever cycling she has done, you have conducted yourself with integrity and dignity at every step along the way. You have provided a stable foundation for your kids even as you were rebuilding one for yourself, and I am so happy to see you at a place of peace and happiness and security in your life. I’m not sure what is happening with your xW, and I do hope for the sake of the kids, your coparenting, and just for her own sake that she is making progress toward healing. I hope that’s happening for her, but I know that healing and growth have happened for you… or more accurately, you have made those things happen.

[Standing Strong]

Hey HF,

You sound really good. How nice that even with everything that has happened you are still showing love, caring and patience. 

I hope she is making progress, that getting better will absolutely reveal if she stays in improvement or regresses.
Your kids are so lucky to have you, look at all you've done for them. Awesome.

-SS

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thank you ML, Curiosity, and SS,

It's interesting that since the D, all the power that she had over me is gone.   I truly have accepted that it's her crises and she needs to find her way.   Have no idea what she will do, but I do know any growth will be slow and it will take time.   Will live my life for me and my kids with two things when  I interact with her.

1.  Do our interactions help our kids? 
2.  Do our interactions hurt me?

If the answer to 1 is "yes" and the answer to 2 "no", then I will be ok.   I unblocked her from instagram but still don't follow her.   For now, her posts have only included our kids or  XW's girlfriends that i know.  Opening a door if she chooses to walk through.   At the same time, I will block her again to protect me if things change.

Time to take the little dog for a walk.   Have a great evening everyone!

HF

[FaithWalker]

Good to read an update HF.  The new house sounds wonderful.  I smiled big reading about that.  Enjoy the little doggie while he/she is with you.

You just keep doing what you're doing.  I like this gauge:

1.  Do our interactions help our kids? 
2.  Do our interactions hurt me?

[PJ Ames]

Great update HF.

I am open to all options in my life and remain detached.

This sounds really healthy. I like the way you're thinking.

[MadLuv]

When you get to that place of just acceptance that alone is start of some peace of mind. It doesn’t resolve everything, but it is a good place to be vs. a mind jumbled mess!!  You have a great attitude to mive forward and what’s meant to be is meant to be…

[Dragonfly33]

Looks like you are in a good state now HF. I hope our D will also loosen all the power he has on me. I believe it does somehow help one to accept that the marriage is over although it is just a piece of paper. I hope it does the same thing to me. I think that would be my last hurdle, facing the fear of life after D. I also blocked my H in instagram as he is now publicly posting the OW and the all happy life he is living now. I don't think it helps me at all watching it and I am happy I was able to control myself not to see it anymore.

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thank you FW, ML, PJ, and DF for your kind words.  I really appreciate your continued support and perfect time to journal as I am recovering from COVID.

The initial first day with COVID was awful but I have slowing gotten better each day.  I now only have a cold and a slight cough.   Feeling much more like myself.

As for me, I had a great time with D14 and D12 this past week.  We went away for D12's competition and it was so special.   Although we stayed a very busy hotel with convention center, it was worth the time spent with them.

As for my XW, there continues to be slow gravitation as we reconnect as "parents".   I met with her before her trip to talk about our kids and she invited me to talk with her in her home.     We actually had a good parent conversation and she provided really good advice with planning for D12's activities and with my relationship with D14.  It was the first time that I can remember having a truly valuable and healthy conversation that wasn't transactional or surface level.

Now, I am not getting any expectations at this point and keeping the Monkey out of my brain for now.  Still may need at 2X4 if parent reconnection continues. 

What's interesting is that we have had a couple of things happen in the last month that really blessed our kids and we got to celebrate both  in our current broken family.  It has been strange but nice to have joy and peace for our girls.   For now, this is enough for me.

I would say that I have accepted that my XW ended our marriage.   I still have not ended my vows to my XW.   Of course, that may change as my red line is crossed if she goes public with a relationship which she has not yet done. 

Feel I'm at a tipping point over the next year.   Content with moving forward tomorrow if she goes public with OM or open to letting her reconnect with me in some form or fashion at least as parents.

For newbies, my XW initially neglected our kids and was not the mother that she used to be.   Over the past year, she has reconnected with the kids and seems truly dedicated to them once again.   Hope the same for you and your family as your MLCer hopefully works through their crisis.

Have a great week everyone!

HF

[Standing Strong]

Hey HF 

She's making some progress, that's really nice.
Sounds like she is not stressed, that's so good..... and you've let go...... I wonder if that's part of it too.
Maybe now she will mature in the areas needing that, I wonder what you still see when that happens. So good to hear she is becoming a good parent again...... I think that means she will begin to see you for you again at some point. Isn't it weird how we are not people for a while? 

-SS

[MadLuv]

HF- thank you for updating on the reconnecting with kids. It is what I pray for my kids to have. That gives dome more hope !

[MomOfSteel]

Great update, sorry about the covid though.  I hope you continue to recover.  I too hope that divorce can help cut the ties and allow more detachment.  You seem like you are in a great place.  I hope that she is emerging from the fog.  I am following along. 

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thanks SS, ML, and LB for the support.

Well, COVID is the past although it did take about 3 weeks for me to feel good again.   I waited about 10 days after my symptoms stopped before I started working out as I didn't want to push my heart with possible myocarditis.   I now am back to my baseline exercise and sleep and need to focus on my diet again. (Not as disciplined as SS in the diet area)   Need to take off about 20 pounds which I call the MLC 20.

With family life, things have really settled in place as my kids are getting ready to start school and start up their extracurricular activities.  Both kids are doing really well right now and my only stress is the normal parent - teenager relationship with my D14.   I think the past couple of years really impacted my ability to set boundaries about respect so I am having to backtrack and fix some the challenges looking at both me and my daughter's behaviors.   It will take some time but I feel like I am on the right path as a parent.   

I also absolutely love my new home  and got my home office situated.   My new job is going well and i'm getting ready to do some travel worktrips this fall which should be fun.

My XW seems to be still overwhelmed with life and yet she is doing great as a Mom right now.   We continue to work well as co-parents and are starting to face challenges together to help our kids.       As for whether or not there is an OM in her life, I have no idea to be honest.   I think there may be one but it is still hidden from me and everyone that I know.   As I continue to heal, she may eventually feel comfortable coming out publicly with the relationship.  If that happens, then my stand will be done.  I will be ok no matter what happens in the future.

Lastly, I am at a point where I am not ready to even consider dating.   I am focused on my own healing, developing close relationships with some male friends, and putting my kids a my main priority right now.    As my kids get older, I will have more time (and money) to explore another relationship.   Not going to push things but will see how things evolve over time.   I do spend time thinking about what I want from the next relationship and where I still need to grow.   I want to emerge from this MLC stronger and ready for a healthy relationship.

Enough journaling for now.   Will continue to write as life happens.   Hope everyone has a great week!

HF

[HeavenlyFocus]

Minor journal today

As I have dealt with all the craziness over the past two years, I wanted to share that my XW actually went out of her way to help one of children setting up an appointment for me to take her on a tour of the new school after we missed the normal school tour due to a conflict.  Kind of nice to have her helping for a change. 

HF

[MomOfSteel]

HF, I hope things continue to go well and I'm glad you are recovered.  I relate to focusing on the kids now and healing.  To me it seems like the best way to hopefully avoid an unhealthy relationship. 

[MadLuv]

It has to start somewhere….hoping for more good things to come 

[HeavenlyFocus]

Wow how time flies.  I remember posting every couple of days and life has surely changed for me since I joined the forum back in late October in 2020.

Overall, not much has changed in the past couple of months.   Still relative peace in my life as things are going really well with my two D's.   School and sports are really busy and life has been really fun.   My job is also going well and I have had some fun work trips to California and Colorado over the past couple of months.   I don't have much time for anything else during my week's with the kids so the work trips have been fun with some good times with my new coworkers.

As for my XW, she still seems to be in the replay but is at least more pleasant.   We are working well together as co-parents and I have to say this provided peace for me.   We even celebrated one of our D's birthdays together as a family and I was invited over by my XW.   It felt a little strange but I have to say it was nice to share gifts and celebrate as a family.   

No expectations at this point and I still don't initiate any non-children communication at all.   My boundaries are in place to protect me for now, and I have hope for another relationship down the road when I am fully healed.   The joy I have with my kids, work, and some close friends is enough for now.  I have also really learned to enjoy my time by myself something I didn't have much prior to BD.    Don't feel the need to rush into a relationship of any kind at this point.

For those still in the first year since BD, time is your friend and it will get easier.  I am no longer defined by what happened to me and my family at BD.  I am not looking back but only towards the future whatever that will be

Have a great week everyone!

HF

[UrsaMajor]

Nice to hear HF. Healing takes... yep... time but you seem to be well on your way. It took me a lot longer to be able to play "happy family" for the sake of the kids and I still do not do a very good job of it....

[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi UM,

Yes, it's not always easy to play happy family.   I definitely can't fake it.   In my situation, it appears my XW has compartmentalized her life.   Nothing public about other relationships nor have I heard anything from others.    She also has been putting effort with rebuilding her relationship with our kids.   These things have made it easier for me to move forward and heal.   I always ask two questions for myself when I interact with my XW.

1.   Is the interaction the best thing for my kids? 
2.   Does the interaction hurt me? 

If 1 is a Yes and 2 is as No, then I do it.   The other thing that helps me to move forward is that I am clearly in the stronger position at this point and my XW has no Power over me.    You can see that she is struggling as she escapes during her MLC.    I think she is currently away for a couple of days on another fake work trip.      She is texting with the kids a bit but only sent me the original message letting me know when she is leaving.   I responded with "Ok" and have no desire to text anything more.   I let her do all the communication and am at a point of indifference when interacting.

Sad for what happened to my family but still excited for the future.   

HF

[xyzcf]

Yes, it's not always easy to play happy family.

This, as are the other dilemmas we face is a personal choice. I don't call it "playing happy family". After much soul searching and therapy, I determined that for my daughter's ability to have some kind of family life, we would celebrate certain holidays with her. She is an adult but she still suffers from the destruction of what was once a stable family.

She and I have discussed this and it is easier for her to do things this way rather than split her time between two parents.

Is it hard for me? Yes it is. But I also wanted to be healed enough that his presence would not shake me anymore. That is detachment I guess.

I also think it shows unconditional love for him which again is important to me and my values. I do not blame him for his crisis, that was beyond his control so I look at what happened slightly differently than some on HS.

I would not wish MLC on my worse enemy.

My daughter is aware that this is difficult but each one of us tries to make these times together special.

My son-in-law who never knew Mr xyzcf before his crisis stated this summer when they were here visiting "mom, I don't understand this at all. You cook together, clean up, joke and tease one another, I just don't get it". Welcome to the club.

[Reinventing]

Great guidelines to live by:

I always ask two questions for myself when I interact with my XW.

1.   Is the interaction the best thing for my kids?
2.   Does the interaction hurt me?

That is why you sound so healthy and strong; you put your own oxygen mask on first. This is great for both you and your children. Being a stable, strong parent is the best gift you can give them.

It also means that if reconciliation was to happen in the future, it would start at a much better place because you are at a healthier point.

From xyzcf:

I do not blame him for his crisis, that was beyond his control so I look at what happened slightly differently than some on HS.

I think that most people here would agree with this. That's why folks on this site frequently say, "you didn't break it so you can't fix it". Or, "It would have happened no matter who the MLCer married".

I would go further and say that even though we see what happens as destructive and negative, the MLCer has every right to live a different life than the one they had before MLC. We do need to distance and protect ourselves from  gaslighting, lies, financial devastation and other behaviors. And we have to create a new life, whether reconciled or not. Our lives are irrevocably changed, which took me a long time to accept.

I see our responsibility is to heal as best we can and live our lives as healthy, healed, and stable as we can. If we learn one thing in all of this, it is that we can only control ourselves.

Our lives are precious and the only one we have (unless one comes from the reincarnation perspective and possible other perspectives of which I'm not aware).

[HeavenlyFocus]

That is why you sound so healthy and strong; you put your own oxygen mask on first. This is great for both you and your children. Being a stable, strong parent is the best gift you can give them.

It also means that if reconciliation was to happen in the future, it would start at a much better place because you are at a healthier point.

Thank you Reinventing!   Totally agree about being at a healthier point in whatever relationship I develop with someone in the future.  It's odd but my XW still hasn't completely let me go yet.   With each passing day, I tend to detach more and more.   For now, I am just living one day at time and will see what the future holds in my life.

Yes, it's not always easy to play happy family.

This, as are the other dilemmas we face is a personal choice. I don't call it "playing happy family". After much soul searching and therapy, I determined that for my daughter's ability to have some kind of family life, we would celebrate certain holidays with her. She is an adult but she still suffers from the destruction of what was once a stable family.

She and I have discussed this and it is easier for her to do things this way rather than split her time between two parents.

Is it hard for me? Yes it is. But I also wanted to be healed enough that his presence would not shake me anymore. That is detachment I guess.

Yes xyzcf,

I am at least going to try to build some sort of family life.  If another person enters the picture, I don't think I can celebrate with another person in the room.   Would need to have clear boundaries to protect me except for significant events such as graduation, weddings, etc.

And yes most of friends and family still don't get what has happened to my XW.   I have stopped discussing as it's tough to understand unless you have been through this.   This is where the HS forum has been such a blessing.

Focusing my kids and most of all my relationship with God.  I have found peace in the past couple of months which has been wonderful.

HF

[xyzcf]

If another person enters the picture, I don't think I can celebrate with another person in the room.   Would need to have clear boundaries to protect me except for significant events such as graduation, weddings, etc.

This is my boundary as well. If I were to be in a relationship with another man, I would not continue to see Mr xyzcf for family things. That is when I would cut all ties with him.

I suspect but have no "proof" of other women in his life but he has kept her hidden or however many there have been hidden for over 13 years...and has never introduced anyone to my daughter so whoever she is, I know I wouldn't want that if I were in a relationship with someone.

Focusing my kids and most of all my relationship with God.  I have found peace in the past couple of months which has been wonderful.

That peace is a wonderful feeling. I do still question why we have to go through this trial and am always trying to tursy God and surrender it all to him.

Nice update HF.

[FaithWalker]

Great updates HF.  Where at in CO was your work trip?

[HeavenlyFocus]

This is my boundary as well. If I were to be in a relationship with another man, I would not continue to see Mr xyzcf for family things. That is when I would cut all ties with him.

I suspect but have no "proof" of other women in his life but he has kept her hidden or however many there have been hidden for over 13 years...and has never introduced anyone to my daughter so whoever she is, I know I wouldn't want that if I were in a relationship with someone.

Thanks Xyzcf,

It amazes me that it's been 2 years since BD and my XW still has kept things hidden.  I can't imagine how it would feel to live a compartmentalized life. 

Great updates HF.  Where at in CO was your work trip?

HI FW,   

Doing work in Boulder which is such a lovely town to visit.  I have been enjoying my trips flying to Denver and spending time a short drive away in Boulder.

HF

[FaithWalker]

Very neat HF.  Yes, Boulder is nice.  I love Fort Collins too.  Glad you are enjoying our beautiful state.  I am about 4 hours away from Denver.

I was able to meet up with xyzcf and another lbser that doesn't post on here anymore a few years ago, not the halfway point but a little closer to me than Denver.  Just recently on my trip with my M we ate at the same little restaurant that the 3 of us ate at when we met up.  It was nice.

[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi FW,

Glad to hear that you are relatively close to the Denver area. I really have enjoyed my trips to there and hoping to get some skiing this winter.

Journaling

I really haven’t posted lately because there hasn’t been much to tell until the past week or so.  First, I am having the best trip with my girls for Thanksgiving.  We went to NYC for the week and saw the broadway show Hamilton.  It was amazing!  As I type this, we are waiting in the crowd to watch the Macy’s Thankgiving parade.  Crossing off a couple of bucket list items and it has been great to take a trip with my girls. 

As for my things with my XW, it has been mostly peaceful.  We had a really fun time celebrating my youngest daughter’s birthday in October and even had a dinner together with my daughters and 10 of the birthday girl’s friends. During dinner, I caught my XW wanting to say something and then she held back with a look of sadness. Not sure what it was, but I did see the human side of her for a moment.

I also got to see Monster come out for the first time in 6-8 months.  I dropped my daughters off for the week and my youngest came down with a fever.  I left for a work trip the next day and my XW had to take her to the doctor. She wanted me to pay for all of her medicine and complained that she had to miss work.  Asked when was the last time I took work off for the girls?     I only take care of all dental and most medical appointments.  Funny thing about MLCers and responsibility,  I shut the conversation down and told her I wasn’t going to be ugly and could talk in person when I get back.  Monster eventually went away.  😎

Lastly, I have officially joined the ranks of a dog owner (part-time). My XW wanted to get a dog for my oldest D and I let her know I would only consider it later this summer. Well, the MLCer got the dog anyway.  Although I wasn’t happy with the disrespect getting the dog without my permission,  I had a week to think about it when I went away for the work.  For my D, it will be a good thing.  I was able to work it out and will make some adjustments to my budget.  The dog will live at each house and go with my daughter:  I can still travel for work without any problems on my off weeks.

Very thankful for the time I have spent with my girls this week.  For newbies, GAL and don’t look back all the time.  There is still so much joy post BD.

HF

[MadLuv]

Your trip sounds amazing and although not totally planned the new dog will bring a lot more love. Happy Thanksgiving and enjoy the parade!!

[UrsaMajor]

She wanted me to pay for all of her medicine and complained that she had to miss work.  Asked when was the last time I took work off for the girls?     I only take care of all dental and most medical appointments.  Funny thing about MLCers and responsibility,  I shut the conversation down and told her I wasn’t going to be ugly and could talk in person when I get back.  Monster eventually went away.

MLC'ers and Responsibility go together like "Screen Door" and "Submarine."

I haven't gotten a monster but the occasional complaint... That is what being a single parent means...

And, the classic "I will take D11 to her Orthodontist appointments because I want to know what is going on..."

Who takes D11 to her Orthodontist appointments? It is NOT MLCxW...

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thanks ML and UM for your replies.

Journaling:

Well, it's been a busy holiday season since I got back from NYC over Thanksgiving.  I am still beaming from my trip with my girls and it has provided me with the memories that will help me as I spend my first Christmas away from them.

The new dog is working out really well and in the long run will be a good thing.   It's still going to be a challenge over this next 6 months and it was difficult when we had the kids athletic events two straight weekends in December.    My D15 was complaining about the dog having to spend so much time in her cage and I told her that this is how it will be this Spring and why I wanted to wait until the summer to get a dog.   We will do our best to love and support the Dog but want D15 to learn that there are consequences for decisions in life.

I try not to spend too much time thinking about XW anymore but the one trigger that I still have is when she still lies about her "fake work trips" when she goes away for a couple of days.  She has had two trips this fall where she left early on Sunday and came back Tuesday evening exclaiming it was for work.  Well, there is no reason for her to leave early on Sunday for her job.   All work in relatively close.   It doesn't bother me personally but I still have issues with her lying to our kids.   You would think 2+ years later that she would finally come forward with this secret life but she still is keeping it hidden from our girls and our mutual friends.    How awful it must be to live a secret life.

I guess I am at a point of acceptance and just want her to move on and own up to her decisions.  I am focused on my life and it will be her story to tell our girls what happened.   I am proud of how I have handled things and will continue to be there for my girls.

Really looking forward to peace and downtime this holiday.  There is plenty of NFL football, Premiere League futbol, and college football to keep my busy over the holiday.   Planning to get together with some friends to watch while my girls are away.

I hope everyone in the HS Family has a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!   

HF

[FaithWalker]

Maintaining her secret life is probably the only thing keeping that relationship intact.  It will all slowly unravel for her, most likely.

You just keep on moving forward knowing that you have integrity.  Enjoy your football get-togethers!  My team was a major let-down this year.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

but the one trigger that I still have is when she still lies about her "fake work trips" when she goes away for a couple of days.  She has had two trips this fall where she left early on Sunday and came back Tuesday evening exclaiming it was for work.  Well, there is no reason for her to leave early on Sunday for her job.

No matter how you look at it, the deception hurts. Of course, monstering with the MLCer putting the affair partner in your face is just as hard. Plus, she is keeping the AP out of her kids lives which is also a plus. So often they want to set up home with the new partner to show everyone is happy but you.

You can't let all the voices in your head keep you from enjoying all the great things you are doing with your kids and your time. The time goes fast and before you know it, they are grown. Those young years are gone forever. Only your fond memories of them remain.

I personally think you are doing a great job of detaching and living your life as if she is not coming back. It opens your life to all the possibilities and gives you the power of choice.

I hope you have a great Christmas and keep going strong,

(((Ready)))

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thank you FW and Ready for your continued support.   Your advice and support during my early stages here was so valuable and I'm grateful to be in a much better place today in my life.

Journaling:

I still read a couple of times a week but think monthly posting is about right and things really haven't changed a whole lot.   My goal for 2023 was to have peace in my life and for the most part 2023 is off the great start.   My biggest challenge right now is my relationship with my D15.   She is an awesome daughter, doing well in school, and overall very responsible.   She just doesn't treat me very well and is so closed off.   I have talked with my friends and some are dealing with the same challenges with their daughters the same age.   It's just hard because my D15 prefers XW because she is her mom and it's tough to install discipline when I only have her every other week.   My XW seems more relaxed and acts like a friend more than a Mom sometimes.  I will continue to support my D and give her tough love when needed, but it can be challenging.

As for my XW, something has changed within her.    She no longer seems to be in the high-energy replay mode all the time and instead in more a depressive lower energy state.   Not too much I can read from my interactions but I do notice that something is different.   She is still focused on being a Mom to our kids which I am grateful.   She also is working with me as deal with the crazy parts of our kids activities this winter and spring.

Lastly,  I love having the new dog in my life.   It still hasn't been easy during this busy time in our lives but my D15 and I are figuring out how to work together to help take care of a Puppy.  Other than a tough 3 days after the New Year, D15 has been very responsible.   Can see this is going to work out and the Puppy has been an overall positive in my life and brought much joy which exceeds the challenges that come with a new puppy.

Will post occasionally as things evolve although things have a reached a steady state for that which I am grateful.

HF

[HeavenlyFocus]

As for my XW, something has changed within her.    She no longer seems to be in the high-energy replay mode all the time and instead in more a depressive lower energy state.   Not too much I can read from my interactions but I do notice that something is different.   She is still focused on being a Mom to our kids which I am grateful.   She also is working with me as deal with the crazy parts of our kids activities this winter and spring
HF

I take this statement back.   Just had issues with with kids being able to pick up their stuff.   My XW was all over the place about when my kids could pick up their stuff and then she suggested we could it another night. (Not going to work.  Kids need their stuff now).  She said she had company over and I told her to work it out with our girls.    My oldest D came to me and said she was ready to go after talking with her Mom.  Well, XW never mentioned a time to visit and then told me to come in a hour as we were pulling up.   Turns out XW had been drinking beverages and had company over.   I don't care about the company.  Well beyond that, but it frustrates me that she can be selfish.   Just tell me a time, and the girls and I can come over.   

Ok, venting over.  Just love all the fun dealing with my MLC XW.   

HF

[UrsaMajor]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.... MLC'ers are focused on one thing only and that is themselves and their needs/wants/desires.... Nothing else matters.

As far as D15 goes.... I swear that the time from 14 years, 6 months to 16 is about the worst. I read on a sports group that I am involved in that one mom was considering a convent... She wasn't sure whether it was for her D15 or herself... or both... but most definitely SEPERATE convents  and had the exact same series of issues/complaints that you noted above...

or, as a UM'ism says - "Teenagers... You can't live with 'em and you can't hang 'em by their toes form the ceiling fan either... "  I have my S15 (almost 16) and  D12 so I'll just get finished with the one when the other one will start.... Yippee Yippee Joy Joy...

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Ok, venting over.  Just love all the fun dealing with my MLC XW.   

I know exactly what you mean. Just finished going to court to have a judge order that the QDRO proceed without my ex's signature. For whatever reason, she won't sign it nor declare she is no longer interested in my retirement. Now if something were to happen to either one of us, the entire pension would have to be resolved through probate. Meaning a larger chunk of it would be gone. So, I have to send here a demand letter, file for a request of order, have her served, appear in court, go back at a designated time with my own notary so the court could sign on her behalf. All of this so my ex could get a share of my pension. Yes, my friend, all of the fun to benefit someone else.

MLC'ers are focused on one thing only and that is themselves and their needs/wants/desires.... Nothing else matters.

There is a lot to say about this as many have described the MLCer as an angry, intitled, and very arrogant teenager. It is all about them and they do act immature, but they have the experience and knowledge that many teenagers lack. That's what makes them more frustrating and harder to deal with than a regular teenager.

My oldest daughter and I butted heads from fifteen through eighteen. Now, her husband states she views me as the absolute authority on everything. Yep. Everything. If he says the sky is blue, she won't confirm it with him until I say the sky is blue. Crazy. So, I guess all of us rewrite or review history from a different perspective as time goes by. Now, my oldest does not trust her mother at all. They get along much better now, but my oldest doesn't trust the way my ex thinks and considers her a bit of a loon. Also, my son-in-law is not a big fan of her either. However, my youngest is best buds with my ex and they runa craft booth together.  So goes on the life of my family.

So will yours. Continue to seek the inner peace that you want and that will be a great path for you to follow as you navigate the teenage years with your daughter.

Have an amazing day,

(((Ready))))

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thank you UM and Ready for your encouraging words and advice as I deal with teenagers.   Good luck UM as you navigate more teenage land in the coming years and Ready your experience with your oldest daughter which gives me hope in the future.

Journaling:

I had a really busy couple of weeks since I last posted with back-to-back long weekends with the girls' activities and one being an out of town trip.  The great thing is that I really had a special time with my girls and things have been good with my oldest daughter.   Just continuing to be their rock and watching them thrive gives me pure joy.

My XW hasn't really felt well the past couple of weeks and she still seems not in a good place which becoming normal.   She seems to be struggling but she still is trying with our girls.   Ok enough about her.

Lastly, I have my first out of town trip with my brother this weekend.  It's the first trip I have taken by myself since COVID.   I then leave to another city for a week of work so I get a full week without any MLC drama.    Peace is a wonderful thing.

Life is moving forward and I have have some peace right now.  Have a great weekend everyone!

HF

[HeavenlyFocus]

It's been almost 2 months since I posted and I wanted to wait until I had something new to share.  Feels like my life has been like the movie Ground Hog day where each day just repeats over and over.   No one want to hear the same story on here which I have been regurgitating the past 6-9 months.   Well, something has changed in side of me so time to share.

First the good over the past two months.  Things with my kids are going really well.   Both school and their activities are going really well, and I am so proud of the girls that they have become.   We are staying in the same rental home another year so not having to move this summer is refreshing.   We have a trip to Florida for one of daughter's sporting events followed by a family beach vacation afterward.

My work also continues to go well although it's been very stressful and challenging.  It's been really great to be invested in work in a healthy way as it keeps me busy and a distraction from the craziness from my XW sometimes.   Overall, I am much happier  with my job and even during the stressful times.

As for me, I really feel like that as I approach the 3rd Anniversary since BD, I have emotionally dropped the rope completely.  I have come to full acceptance that the person my XW was during our first 15 years of marriage is gone.  There is an OM now and I have seem him twice in her car and the interesting thing is it doesn't even both me.   My kids don't speak of him and my XW still hasn't said anything.  I would welcome advice on how to deal with this but for now it hasn't been acknowledged and I just don't care to find out any details.

My biggest frustration is my XW has taken a step back in prioritizing the kids in her life.   She has been doing the bare minimum to attend the kids activities, and I called her out on it tonight.   She tried to play the MLCer game of blaming me and I no longer play the arguing game anymore.  I will stick to "facts" and felt I needed to let her know my frustrations with her disappointing our kids.   I am tired of seeing her poor behavior impact our kids.   I know me saying  something probably won't make any impact but I just am done with her foolishness.

Well, that's in for now.   Will enjoy my kids and my work in the coming months which is enough for me right now.

HF

[MadLuv]

HF- the disappointing kids is so hard. i have also taken opportunities to me mention in moments that life is short, you don’t get this time back, etc. They still continue on until they want to face it, but I am one who thinks that it doesn’t hurt to put those truth darts out there. They may be trying to avoid the truth and a little reminder may just help in the long run. I don’t think it can hurt? As long as it is done in small doses and without anger.

[HeavenlyFocus]

Yes Madluv to doing it in small doses and without being angry.  It has seemed to help as she has responded positively to kids needs the past couple of days.

I have been so impressed with the compassion you have shown your XH in spite of everything.  Most people don’t understand our LBS vantage point as we see our former spouse unraveling in their lives

I am committed to moving forward in my life but will always be decent and caring from a distance to my XW. I don’t want to live a life of bitterness so I just try to make the most of every day

HF

[Standing Strong]

Hey HF,

Rope dropped eh? Very good. Such a big thing.

So what's on the horizon for HF? There's gotta be a list 

I'm so happy you are doing well.

-SS

[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi SS,

My life is centered around upcoming dance competitions for my daughter in Las Vegas and Orlando.   I am only going to part of the Las Vegas competition as my girls will be with their mom.   With the Orlando competition, I get the girls for the entire week and then we have another week on the beach in Florida with my entire family.    It will be an exciting summer and I can’t wait to get away.

After that, don’t know about what I will do in the fall.  Just going to enjoy life and see where the wind blows.  Excited about my future.

HF

[HeavenlyFocus]

Wow!  I can't believe it's been since April since I last posted.   As I have entered year 3 since BD, things have just settled into the new normal with the occasional craziness from my XW.

My oldest D16 just got her license and we got her a call for her birthday.  She is so responsible and it has been great to see her mature as she has gotten part-time job at a fast food place and has focused on her studies.  I couldn't be more proud and life has really stabilized for her.

My youngest D14 (turns 14 tomorrow) is still busy with dance and school.   She has really good chance of being a professional dancer so I continue to support her on her journey.   We went to Orlando this summer for a dance competition and then met my family in Florida for a beach vacation.  It was the best trip that I have had since BD.

As for XW, she has been slowly doing more for our kids which I am grateful for.   She still isn't stable, often forgets things, and needs my help with the kids more when she has them (we split custody 50/50).   Funny story.  Probably the craziest thing is she called me from the ER to help come get her and take her home when she extreme back pain.  While I picked her up, she had to have a virtual call with her counselor as she would charged if she cancelled last minute.   I literally went to pick up her medicine for her while she sat in the parking lot talking to her counselor. 

For those that haven't followed my story, my XW almost died over 10 years ago and spent over 3 months in the hospital.   I was her caregiver throughout her marriage as she dealt with a chronic GI condition.   I honestly felt conflicted when she asked for me help, but I finally decided I would do the minimum to help her in need while my kids still live with her full time.   Things will change later when the kids are in college but I don't want my kids to remember that I ever abandoned their mother.  Now, I do it for them and not for my XW.

Most importantly is that my life has been really settling down.   My work was really crazy at the beginning of the year but the recent months have been really positive.   I feel back to my normal self which really feels wonderful.  I am also excited to go spend time with my Dad and two brothers at my brother's cottage in PA later this month.

Lastly I have really come to peace with the D and accepted my XW's current journey.  I am lonely at times but also know that my focus needs to be on me and my kids right now.  It would be nice to find someone someday but it will come in the right time.

Appreciate everyone's stories as I still read often and will continue to post from time-to-time when I have interesting things to share. 

HF

[FaithWalker]

Good to hear from you HF.  You continue to be the rock for your kids and choosing to do thing for their M is a great example of an honorable man.

[MadLuv]

I envy those that still have kids in the ages where you can enjoy their interests and activities. My kids are adults. My grandson recently started baseball and that has been so fun to be able to go watch.

I also agree that I am also in a good place, but it definitely can still be lonely and my kids are just now really feeling the loss and affects of their fathers disconnect on them.

I think showing support of your XW is a wonderful thing for your kids to see. I think to just know that there is some love for that person still no matter what lets them know that they did truly come from a place of love. My parents divorce was so bad. I questioned if I should even exisit for the longest time. So, don’t underestimate what that means and shows them.

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thanks ML,

I know your kids are older but you appear to be making memories for your kids going to NFL games and still creating the family atmosphere that they need.

Journaling:

We got to celebrate D14's birthday and she had a Taylor Swift Eras party where we had pizza out with her fiends and then went to see the Taylor Swift concert movie that came out this weekend.  All the girls dressed up for the movie and I even came in costume with a T Kelce shirt.  (ML, I am sure you have seen plenty of Taylor lately as she has become T Kelce's #1 fan.)

What was interesting is my XW really seemed to be struggling with working together for the party.  She went out of town this past week, and told me it was for work.  I'm pretty sure she is still lying and she went alway with someone.   With her being gone,   I took care of most of the planning and she got upset when I didn't get the right color balloons.  She then starting saying that we shouldn't plan parties in the future and should have our own individual partier for our girls .  I just responded that it would be best for our kids to have one party and I'm willing to work together next year.

At the party she basically ignored me and since then hasn't responded to our parent communication messages instead communicating indirectly through the kids.  Clearly she is struggling with balancing her "new life" while interacting with me civilly,   I am so glad I found this forum because it really helped me to detach and I'm not impacted by her craziness anymore.   I hope that we can continue to work together regarding birthdays for our kids but understand she may push away as she moves on to her new life.   Interested to see what happens as I can't imagine keeping things secret for so long.     My kids know what is going on but I can read their body language that their Mom is struggling.

For newbies, the more you can let the craziness of the MLCer go, the easier it is for you to heal.  I can only control me and I know have other relationships that are meaningful even if I'm not in a serious relationship with someone right now.

Going to visit by Dad and brothers this week as we plan to watch Ohio State play Penn State Saturday and watch the Cleveland Browns play on Sunday.   For NFL fans, the Browns defense is elite as we bullied the 49ers offensive line.

Just trying to GAL and find peace while ignoring the craziness.

HF

[forthetrees]

OMG- the color of the balloons. Just shows ta go ya that you cannot please an MLCer and shouldn´t even waste energy trying.

[Reinventing]

For newbies, the more you can let the craziness of the MLCer go, the easier it is for you to heal.

Well said. You sound good.

OMG- the color of the balloons. Just shows ta go ya that you cannot please an MLCer and shouldn´t even waste energy trying.

Yes, it wasn't us and it wasn't the marriage. So there is nothing we can do to please them and our energy needs to focus on getting us healthy and sound. Otherwise we get sucked into their confusion, dysfunction, and disarray.

[UrsaMajor]

OMG- the color of the balloons. Just shows ta go ya that you cannot please an MLCer and shouldn´t even waste energy trying.

Seriously....

That is a new one for the "The most WTF excuses given by the Mid-Lifer" list and rates right up there with "You let the dog get fat" and "You didn't cook the Bratwursts correctly."

[HeavenlyFocus]

Thank you everyone.   The one thing I have learned is to not react to my XW's outbursts.   It really was not about the balloons but instead was about her inability to prioritize our D's birthday.    She was obviously with the OM and came back into town late the morning of the party.   Although I never brought up the situation, I did let her know that I planned to continue to prioritize our kids's birthdays and would be open to working with her next year.   Seems she is struggling with some of her decisions so I will just let her be.

Cheers to everyone.  Hope you are having a great week!

HF

[UrsaMajor]

Thank you everyone.   The one thing I have learned is to not react to my XW's outbursts.   It really was not about the balloons but instead was about her inability to prioritize our D's birthday.    She was obviously with the OM and came back into town late the morning of the party.   

Ah yes. Blame-shifting at its finest.... MLC Life-Skill #2 on the resume, - directly following Projection.... and right before "Historical Revisionism."

[WHY]

I'm starting to expand the way I understand MLC so that it's easier for friends and family to make sense of what's going on.  Taking what we know, and reframing it in a simplified matter.  I think it can be useful for newbies too.

I think a lot of the principles on Heroes Spouse could benefit from being reframed so its easier for people to wrap the heads around it. 

Historical Revisionism - we all know they do this.  But why?

I've come to understand that they genuinely feel that way they feel about LBS once they're in MLC.  They're not lying to themselves, or telling themselves this stuff to justify their awful behavior, or deluding themselves.  They 100% in their hearts know that we are the antichrist.

Problem is, these feelings also get applied retroactively to the 20 years of marriage...  And they are certain they've always felt this way and LBS has always been this way.

As for why this happens.  Im not sure.  But I guess those feeling are so intense and real and overwhelming that they dont believe it was any other way or the LBS was any different in the past. 

If there are any recovered MLCers or vets that can comment on fog stories from the other side, on whether this is an accurate depiction, please weigh in.   

[Imgood]

Why - I personally don’t think you can paint all mlcer’s with a wide brush stroke. I am over three years in and my exH still does nice things for me without me asking. I can still feel his care for me when he is physically in my presence which doesn’t happen too often. A couple of examples, I was sick in June with Covid, basically a cold and he offered to go to the store for me and get me some groceries and also picked up CFA for me, as soon as he became aware I was sick. Then in July, he was moving the last pieces of furniture out and he got rid of a bunch of outdoor furniture for me that I didn’t want anymore and lots of flower pots, and just a lot of stuff in the garage that I didn’t want. He had a friend with him and it was a full day of hard, hard work on a very hot day. And he was taking it to the dump and paying for it.  I thanked him via email and he responded saying: “I’m glad we were able to leave it nice for you.” I was surprised by his words.

Also, we have an employee that we “share”. That employee has said on more than one occasion “exH speaks really highly of you”. And just the other day, my daughter said, dad said you were an amazing mom and that you still are. 

Going back to the day he was moving his furniture out and getting his things out of the garage this past July, when he was standing in my family room, I was talking about moving my big armoire to the front room and I said when I’m ready to do that could you help me and I’ll never forget how he responded because I immediately thought about RCR’s reference to “prisoner”. He shook his head “yes”. It was like he either couldn’t or more so, didn’t dare say “yes” out aloud. Oh and the other thing, while getting his stuff from the garage and getting rid of anything I didn’t want, he offered on his own accord while in the backyard to come help me spray paint my table and chair set that needs a refresher AND also somehow it came up that I haven’t been showering in my master bath for over 2 years due to a leak and he said, he could come look at that. I was shocked by his offers of help but didn’t let it show. I have not followed up on either offer and he hasn’t brought it up to me in these last few months since July, so go figure, right! The point is though, not all mlcer’s despise their spouse or ex spouse. As they say, sample of one.

[KayDee]

The point is though, not all mlcer’s despise their spouse or ex spouse. As they say, sample of one.

Same for me. Does thoughtless, harmful things for his own happiness, but still looks at me with affection, wants to talk to me, wants hugs and like Imgood's exH, offers do things. As to the latter, I think it would be too simple to read guilt as the only motive, although definitely a player. Has never really been hateful towards me though.

[UrsaMajor]

I'm in the same boat so a sample of 3 - my MLCxW would ask me to do things for her until I set a boundary that I had been fired form the job as H and she would need to find someone else to do the jobs in her new apartment that I had done around the house. She didn't like it but accepted it after a brief monster.

Other than that, she doesn't actively try to hinder my access to the kids but also doesn't actively assist either (like telling them that, yes, it IS a dad weekend and they need to come so she can have some down time too) but that is because she can use it to prove what a great mom she is, despite letting D12 stay home "sick" from school 2 days every couple of weeks or so (MLCxW does the same from work so ... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree....)

Other than that, she is friendly and polite

[Evermore]

My xH is also friendly and treats we fine. We still have family health insurance (5 years in) and I always get a brief hug. I don’t think it’s possible to generalise ‘what they’re like’.

[xyzcf]

They're not lying to themselves, or telling themselves this stuff to justify their awful behavior, or deluding themselves.  They 100% in their hearts know that we are the antichrist.

I don't believe this to be true.

As has been stated many many many times, this is not about us and not about our marriage.

I have read that MLCers often feel that they must leave or they will die. They do not just leave us, they leave their whole life behind and change their values and morals.

Like others have written, my husband seeks me out. He travels extensively and brings me back gifts from his travels. He stays at my house when our daughter visits. We go away on vacation with our daughter and son in law. He always wishes me a Happy Birthday and remembers to send me messages on the anniversary of my parent's deaths. His cards to me are signed "Love and xo"...he still confides in me confidential stuff regarding his work, his health. I have been with him for two surgeries in the past year.

No one would know when they see us together that we are not a "couple".

He is not mean to me, doesn't say nasty things about me.

The adjective I use for him is "playboy" for what I know of his life, that is how he lives.

He had a crisis...of that I am sure. I am collateral damage. Our daughter is collateral damage. In some cases, the family pet is collateral damage.

However you define "crisis", massive depression, a life stage, a switch that turns them into someone we don't recognize it is very real and we are not the cause..they may take things out on us and for sure there are some very nasty MLCers, but many are not...I think, my husband just wanted to be left alone...free of any responsibilities and commitments.

I was thinking the other day, about the possibility of the role of hormones...when I was pregnant, there were certain foods and smells that I could not stand...which once my hormones returned to normal after the pregnancy, I once again enjoyed these foods....sometimes, something happens physiologically, due to aging, stress, biochemical changes. Recently, there has been more information about how menopause affects the workplace...it's not something that a women purposely enters into and each person is different but it is very real.

When I look at "crisis" in those ways, I avoid thinking that he despises me..because he doesn't.  Never has.

[FrenchHusband]

At this time W is not answering me when I say "hello" or "good night". But sometimes I see her half-answering, and I see it is difficult for her to keep this posture. And I have been through already : after BD I got this treatment for a while, then there was a change. Same goes for her answering when I say "how do you do ?". After BD I got nothing, then it came back after 2 -3 months. After car incident that was a trigger to crisis coming back, it disappeared again, but now she answers shortly. Actually, I think it is self hurting to be impolite towards someone who is close, who is living in same house and coparenting the children.

I have read in this forum that I should mirror her way of answering. But I do not want to change who I am and mirror her impoliteness. So I stay myself and do my best to ignore the rudeness. Understanding the MLC & detachment help me to not react. 

From my point of view, when our spouses in MLC are mean, ignoring or in monster mode, this shows us how much they are in pain from one side, and they are maybe trying to achieve something on another side. What they may want to get from the nastiness, imo, is that we react, throw them away and give them "justifications" to them leaving. They want not to be responsible of anything, not responsible of separation and divorce. But I am not sure about it, maybe there is no conscious WHY ?

I was thinking the other day, about the possibility of the role of hormones...when I was pregnant, there were certain foods and smells that I could not stand...which once my hormones returned to normal after the pregnancy, I once again enjoyed these foods....sometimes, something happens physiologically, due to aging, stress, biochemical changes. Recently, there has been more information about how menopause affects the workplace...it's not something that a women purposely enters into and each person is different but it is very real.

I think you got a point. Hormones and neuronal changes may have a big part in this crisis. During teenage crisis of my daughters, even it is mild I see that they reject what they appreciated before. And they are sometimes depressed or easily addicted. During my own mild crisis I had these patterns. 

[AlvinTheMaker]

I've come to understand that they genuinely feel that way they feel about LBS once they're in MLC.  They're not lying to themselves, or telling themselves this stuff to justify their awful behavior, or deluding themselves. .... As for why this happens.  Im not sure.  But I guess those feeling are so intense and real and overwhelming that they dont believe it was any other way or the LBS was any different in the past. 

I agree with a lot what you wrote. I have no doubts that the MLCr would not genuine feel what they feel.

There are actually some studies on false memories, and they all concur that human mind  is master at creating false memories which feel real. As for reasons, it can be internal defence mechanism (id, ego, superego), it can be hormones, it can be trauma, it can be some health condition etc. Possibly what matters most is that it is not unusual, pretty much everyone has false memories on some level. I think what separates MLC is not the scale of false memories, but effects/outcome they have on relationship.

Psychology has long known that thoughts and feelings go hand-in--hand. If you think negative thoughts or memories, you will get negative feelings. If you feel negativity, you tend to focus on negative thoughts and memories. It is a pit you can drown unless you know how to stop it and have the energy to climb out. And MLCrs lack the skill and energy for some reason.

Just my thoughts at 4½ year mark.

Alvin

[MadLuv]

From my point of view, when our spouses in MLC are mean, ignoring or in monster mode, this shows us how much they are in pain from one side, and they are maybe trying to achieve something on another side. What they may want to get from the nastiness, imo, is that we react, throw them away and give them "justifications" to them leaving. They want not to be responsible of anything, not responsible of separation and divorce.

This for my point of view is so accurate. I think also how much damage they have done. Indiscretions they had, the OW/OM in the picture. My XH has always called if I asked, but once OW moved In he would not reply to texts until he was at work ( understandably to a degree) but when our son was in a car accident and totaled his car it took XH an hour to get away to call and by the time he did he was crying uncontrollably . No one should feel they cant call on their own child or there will be issues. He also with holds communications to control. He has stated, I know if I hold on long enough you will call.  His form of monster is withholding communication/silent treatment.

Yet, if we have a phone call he will Not ever hang up. He will stay on the line for 4 hours. Of course we are in a non communication state now, but I do think that depending on their FMO issues , personal insecurities and struggles, what they did to cope with their issues in an unhealthy manner and the person or people they befriend all play a roll in how they treat us. In my last conversation with my XH he stated, I’m doing what I think I have to do. Careful wording. Not what he wants but what he thinks…..

[marvin4242]

I have read in this forum that I should mirror her way of answering. But I do not want to change who I am and mirror her impoliteness. So I stay myself and do my best to ignore the rudeness. Understanding the MLC & detachment help me to not react.

Just for clarity I have never seen anyone on these forums say to be impolite or rude to your spouse. All the definitions of mirroring I have seen, and it’s exactly what I believed, and did is to mirror their degree of distance. If they are trying to be communicative, then respond with same manner of communication. If they disappear, leave them alone and let them be, if they are cold and businesslike, do the same.

That is what we mean by mirroring the behavior, not screaming and yelling.

[Reinventing]

Agreed.

[UrsaMajor]

I have read in this forum that I should mirror her way of answering. But I do not want to change who I am and mirror her impoliteness. So I stay myself and do my best to ignore the rudeness. Understanding the MLC & detachment help me to not react. 

There is a big difference between being rude and simply mirroring.....

In the case she chooses not to answer you then maybe it is time to stop asking?

Patient: "Doctor, it REALLY hurts when I stab myself in the nose with this Barbeque fork!"
Doctor: "Well then - STOP STABBING YOURSELF IN THE NOSE WITH THE BARBEQUE FORK!"

[HeavenlyFocus]

Happy New Year Everyone,

It's been about 3 months since I posted and have gotten to a point where I will share updates as I have meaningful information to share.   Appreciate the dialogue back in October regarding how the MLCers view their spouse.    I have gotten to a point where I know who I am and it really doesn't matter to met what my XW thinks.   

Journaling:

I have had a really peaceful couple of months as the year ended.   Thanksgiving was quiet as I didn't have D16 and D14, so I used it to relax before the Christmas holiday.    December was crazy as we are now back into dance competition season for D14.   The girls and I then went to Florida to spend 4 days with my family for Christmas and then 3 days at Walt Disney World.    The trip was amazing except for a 36 hour period where I came down with hte flu the two days before christmas.   Tamiflu and other medicines helped so Christmas Day and the WDW trip after were awesome. 

As for me personally, work is going ok although a little concerned about the pipeline of engagements with my current consulting department.   Hoping things pick up.    I still have not dated and don't have any intentions for the time being.   My focus still continues to be on my 2 girls as I only have  a couple of years left before they are in college.   I am reaching a point where I could be interested in dating but want to wait until I am fully healed and have money to spend on someone else.   

Lastly, life has been tough for my XW as her dad is not doing well health wise and may need to put into a nursing home.   Her mom may also move in with her later this year which would definitely be interesting.    Her Mom as I know her wouldn't have put up with her life decisions over the past 3 years so not quite sure how it's going to work out.   My XW still has compartmentalized her life and any dating that she has done has remained private.   My kids also don't talk about it.   I just find it strange that she kept  any personal relationship activity hidden even 2 year after we have been divorced.

Enough about her.   My main focus continues to be on me and my girls life.   Looking forward to getting back into dance competition season this winter and spring and then doing something fun in the summer.

HF

[FaithWalker]

Great to read an updated HF.  I'm sorry about the flu but I'm glad you were able to enjoy WDW with your girls.