[Music45]

New thread time.

Brief recap.
BD in 2016 brought about by huge stress at work.

OW: old school friend. With his counsellor he worked out that he was attached to the feelings he had at her parents house when growing up: of acceptance and safety - things he didn't feel at home. In his MLC state he was seeking out that feeling again but misplaced it with an affair with her. On/off on/off through these past 5 years.

He's wanted back in the marriage several times. Mostly in the first 18 months or so. Then he went off almost completely (bit of contact as he's a clinger but didn't seem him very much).

Past 18 months +: his father died. That brought about a change in him. Got a new job which he loves. Gradually being around more. Back doing things around the house etc.

May - July 2021: around a lot still but backing off. His Mum was in hospital for a week, stress at work. Other things happened. Felt the stress build up in him again.
End of July: I asked him about this. He admitted he was in contact with OW. So boundary crossed: I said I cant be his friend.
No contact since.

That's a very brief snapshot of him.

Me. Standing. Or was. Not sure right now.

My adult kids are (separately) both moving out very soon and I will need to move to somewhere smaller.
Big changes coming and i feel unsettled. I know I'll be fine once we get them sorted and I know where I'll end up but I cant deny I'm feeling a bit sad with it all at the moment.

Need to get my mojo back.


Old thread:
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10954.new#new

[Thunder]

Following along, Music!

[Curiosity]

Coming along with you to this thread, Music!

[FaithWalker]

Attaching

[rosetintedglasses]

Good update Music.

Understandable that you feel sad with all this change on the horizon.

Yours sadness is grief and is the right emotion. Your mojo is still around, you’ll get it back.

Sending you a hug
Rose 🌹

[Gracie3]

I’m sorry Music. Be kind to yourself. Sending much love your way!

[PJ Ames]

Attaching.

[Milly]

Joining your new thread, Music. Understandable you're feeling a bid sad. The kids growing up and leaving is hard on us. As long as the kids are around, I find I'm distracted by their noise and their company. Also having to face a house change is big, so no wonder you are feeling the weight. But as everyone said, you'll do just great. You will get your mojo back.

[Standing Strong]

Following along 

-SS

[UrsaMajor]

Attaching....

[Music45]

Hi everyone.
Thought it was time I updated.

Kids have both moved out now. I see them every few days and speak to/message them a lot. They're both doing ok which is great.
I'll be (hopefully) moving soon. Same village but smaller. I'm near enough the kids and it feels the right place to be. I have mixed feelings about moving: on one hand this has been a happy family home with all those memories but on the other it's too big for just me and I'm looking forward to making the new place mine. I think mostly I just wish it was done so I can move on. Not long now I hope.

H. Well. Coming up on 6 years next month since BD. This time last year he was around a LOT. Fog definitely thinner but it closed in on him again by late summer. He was "friends" with OW again so I left him to it. He told me a few months ago he didn't want to be in a relationship with anyone so communication gradually and slowly picked up again. Nothing at all like last year though.
2 weeks ago it was S birthday. I asked H if he wanted to have a meal with just us (we were due all to go out with MiL and Sil the next day). He declined. Saturday night and he was going out.
Well I thought that's a red flag. Again. Sure enough he's back in a relationship with OW again. Probably has been for a while I expect.
So that's it. Back to no communication from me. Rope dropped. He had and tried to continue to message me goodnight every night still. When I stopped replying he eventually gave up. Now we barely message unless necessary.

Been here before of course. Still sucks. I'm just disappointed in him. Disappointed in me for having some mild expectations last year when he was doing better. Disappointed that he couldn't keep moving forward. Disappointed that he's still gone back to that relationship that clearly is not the answer (as it's been on off on off so many times).

So that's me. There's probably more I could write but that's the essence of it. Bring on the house move. Glad summer is coming.

Hugs all.

[UrsaMajor]

Hi Music45,

Nice to read you again but sorry that H still has his head planted firmly up his .... fog....

I hope that your move will be everything that you hope it will be and that your new place is full of life and joy and peace, regardless of what H decides to do.... Sometimes, we look at the situation from the outside and can't do much more than shake our heads and wonder "WTF?" and get on with our lives, right?

[Music45]

Thanks Ursa. Yes. Dead right. I think it was Sam (not sure - apologies if wrong) who said that watching H is a bit like watching a science experiment. I agree with that 100% as the kids say  .
I'm interested in what's happening but I get on with everything else while it's happening.

[Standing Strong]

Hi Music 

Six years..... they sure take their time don't they?

Feel for you.

-SS

[Music45]

Don't they though, SS....sigh.

[stillbaffled]

Nice that you are able to move and still stay near your kids.   Sounds as though you've become well versed in getting on with life and life's happenings. 

[Music45]

Thanks Still. I have my good days and bad days like everyone but overall I'm ok...I think!

Musing here but do they change "type" these MLCers? Even after so long: 6 years in H's case?

He's been a clinging boomerang throughout. False returns in the first 18 months, touch and go last year but consistent with contact all the way through. Regular messages usually on WhatsApp. Regular calls. Even in his foggiest patches he was never much out of contact. Instigated by him 99% of the time. I just follow his lead.

Until now. I've gone dark on him as he's renewed life with the OW. Been on and off so no surprise there....but this time I've had maybe 2 messages in a month.

Do climbers turn into semi vanishers...even so long after BD?

Just curious...

[UrsaMajor]

Do clingers turn into semi vanishers...even so long after BD?

Just curious...

Good question and, if I am going to try to taste green with my elbow and guess....

Maybe now that he has renewed his contact with OW and you have enforced your boundary of OW meaning no contact (or very little), he is pulling back because he realizes that you were NOT bluffing.... It could also be that OW is keeping a vice-grip on his doodads so he doesn't have contact with you.... It could also be that he is so ashamed of his weakness for OW that he can't face you  as much as he used to ....

Without being there (like the proverbial fly on the wall) it is impossible to tell what is inside that muddled mind...

YUM YUM!  GREEN!

[MadLuv]

i’m interested in what's happening but I get on with everything else while it's happening

I was just saying this to a friend the other day[/quote]

Maybe now that he has renewed his contact with OW and you have enforced your boundary of OW meaning no contact (or very little), he is pulling back because he realizes that you were NOT bluffing.... It could also be that OW is keeping a vice-grip on his doodads so he doesn't have contact with you.... It could also be that he is so ashamed of his weakness for OW that he can't face you  as much as he used to

ALL OF THIS!!!!!!  Also, IMHO once they decide they are all in in making this new life work, that when the real disconnect happens. The thick of the fog and living the new life they chose. That what I see. There is a bit of comfort finally in that. Letting them live it. It took me hitting my own rock bottom to get there. Acceptance that “ it is what it is”

[rosetintedglasses]

Good question Music.

I am along the same timeline as you and feel similar. H has been in contact throughout and I could see him recent become a vanisher.  He’s not though but I couldn’t see it before but can imagine it now. It’s just so much better from this side when we don’t see him as much, easier from his side too I imagine. I don’t want to have that though, hard as it is, I’d rather keep a little contact up if i can for the children.

Your H was around more than mine and in daily contact for a long time. My H was around 3 weeks to start with, then 3 months, then around 6 months without much contact. I let him initiate too, almost always.

How are you doing?
Rose 🌹

[Music45]

Thanks Ursa, Mad and Rose.

All of that makes sense Ursa. Completely. What I find interesting though is why now. 6 years in. The OW has been a constant (if on/off) through the last 6 years (it's the same one)...so all of those factors : guilt, pressure from her etc. must have been present before...

Maybe you're right Mad, maybe he's finally committed to the other life or trying to and is trying to make that work, without the inconvenience of having a wife! Ridiculous when you actually type it out.

Who knows? And before Ursa tells me off, I know I can't taste green with my elbow....

[MadLuv]

I think they do need us out of the “picture” to live their new life fully without us to blame for any of their unhappiness. It took me a while to get their, but honestly there is no doubt for me that his OW is nothing. Nada!! My X married her after only having 26 dates spread out over 9 months. Then lost his job of 38 years due to poor performance. A job he should have been able to do in his sleep. That shows total mind failure to function. Now new marriage and no job and severe depression. My X is showing it all doesn't work out. Some of us get to see it clearly and some of us don't, but as my therapist says…when they go to kay their head down at night do you think they sleep? No, thats when all of it begins to weigh heavy on their soul. I believe that. So, let them live it.

[gman242]

I think all of our xes are similar! That's why they say it follows a script!

My XW kept up contact for several years as she dragged out the divorce. I found out OM wasn't divorced as she claimed.

I don't remember who got divorced first, but it clearly was a game of chicken for them! After they both divorced, they got married. XW got fired somewhere in the mix too. Oh so script! 😂

She's now thrown herself into getting through college. I'd say good for her, but I think it's another form of avoidance. I know she's living with guilt and regret as she was involuntary committed soon after our divorce.

What a tangled web they weave! But they're the ones trapped in it.

[Music45]

Hello everyone
I'm not sure who's still around from 2016 but I caught up with Keeping It Together's thread and I thought maybe I should update mine.

Unlike in KiTs situation though (BD around the same time), my H shows no sign of coming out of his MLC.

He's gone from a clinging boomerang for over 6 years (messages every day etc) and with a lengthy t&g which ended last summer -  to a semi vanisher.

He called me out of the blue last Monday and told me he's going to New Zealand (we're in the UK) for 3 months in the New Year. With the OW.
I'd heard of this from S a while ago but didn't think it was for so long.

S was with him the next day and said his Dad is aware that he's running from something and that there's something not right...but he's either unwilling or unable to talk to someone or whatever to get the help he needs.

I don't know what to make of this latest development.  As in how it affects my stand. I'm just getting on with life. Moved house in May do have started the long process of doing the place up. Been going to work. Very close to S and D.
Not really sure though how to continue my stand now. He's still running and changed his "contact type". I clearly feature very little in his thoughts now. Even 6 months ago I'd gave been surprised at this latest turn - given how much I saw and heard from him.

Hugs all.

[Treasur]

He's gone from a clinging boomerang for over 6 years (messages every day etc) and with a lengthy t&g which ended last summer -  to a semi vanisher.

He called me out of the blue last Monday and told me he's going to New Zealand (we're in the UK) for 3 months in the New Year. With the OW.
I'd heard of this from S a while ago but didn't think it was for so long.

S was with him the next day and said his Dad is aware that he's running from something and that there's something not right...but he's either unwilling or unable to talk to someone or whatever to get the help he needs.

I don't know what to make of this latest development.  As in how it affects my stand. I'm just getting on with life.

Nice to hear from you, Music! Different situation here, but similar timescale. Can’t recall, are you legally divorced now or just separated? How old are your kids?

From stories here, those changes in contact ‘types’ are not unusual over time. I guess if you use MLC logic, it’s like throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks...still not ‘happy’ so i’ll try x or y now.

On a practical level, as someone with a long vanished Vanisher lol, I think there comes a point where what they do or don’t do no longer makes much difference to how everyday life is to you. In NZ or down the road, partying like a happy spring lamb or sobbing into their boots unseen, it all has no real effect on your own day to day life, challenges and joys. Which in a strange way is actually the gift of a vanisher imho. And it allows one perhaps to chew less on whether one is standing or not until or unless something changes that raises the question again. One learns I think, as it sounds you are doing, to just do life regardless.

A bit odd, of course, that he thought his plans needing announcing to you or that you would care  well, not odd for a self-obsessed MLCer unable to look beyond their own nose, of course  Does it matter to you now? Why do you think he felt the need to share this information with you? Is it something you feel you need to muse on at all?

Sounds as if the rest of life is going ok though?

[xyzcf]

Hello Music45, thanks for dropping by with your update.

Your son's observation is very astute:

S was with him the next day and said his Dad is aware that he's running from something and that there's something not right...but he's either unwilling or unable to talk to someone or whatever to get the help he needs.

What is hard to wrap our heads around is how many years they continue down this path. Looking for that "next big thing" that will satisfy their hearts. Do they ever find it? I don't know because I am not in their head.

This tremendous shift in them, although we can "see" it..it is still difficult at times to accept this is who they have become....

I don't know what to make of this latest development.  As in how it affects my stand. I'm just getting on with life. Moved house in May do have started the long process of doing the place up. Been going to work. Very close to S and D.

Over time, healing allows us to move forward in our own life. Like you, I have a very close relationship with my daughter who also is very aware of the changes in her father.

Standing is such an individual and complicated thing. It is also very mysterious because I would never have thought this would be my path...and yet it is. It hasn't changed, although I  question and wonder why.....but mostly I accept that this is God's desire for me....it is not about my husband's returning, but my own inner beliefs and how I wish to live my life.

You will know what is right for you. Standing doesn't mean putting my life on hold or waiting for him to return. Two things of many that it means to me is that I don't date (and there are several reasons I think for that) and the door has always remained opened for my husband to come back to our family.

Nobody can decide for you.

He's gone from a clinging boomerang for over 6 years (messages every day etc) and with a lengthy t&g which ended last summer -  to a semi vanisher.

It is quite common for the MLCer to do this...periods where they interact more with us, then long periods of time go by without hearing from them and then we hear from them again. This can be very unsettling until we reach a point where we  are very aware that this is his "pattern". As Ursa says...trying to understand it is like trying to taste the color green.

Although I continue to remain interested in the subject of what causes MLC (just like I am fixated on COVID having been an infectious disease nurse for much of my career) I also accept that there is much I cannot explain or comprehend about his life.

I hope you are enjoying your new home and your son and daughter.

One thing about his announcement that he is going to NZ and why he would let you know....I remember being told a long time ago that the MLCer is like a little boy about to get on his school bus, and he looks back to see if you are there watching him.

You are a person that he trusts, no matter how far away, he will continue to have a connection to you. What it means down the road, best not to focus on that because we truly do not know what life holds for us.

(((HUGS))) back and enjoy this beautiful holiday season!

[Music45]

Hello Treasur - thank you for your reply. My S is 30 and D is 23. I am their stepmum - they have no contact with their Mum [their choice and that's a whole other story]. We are separated in every practical way but not divorced. H has never brought it up and I haven't felt like it so far.

I don't know why he called to tell me. He sounded very odd. I'd say nervous. Apprehensive. Certainly not entitled or matter of fact. He also tried to justify the trip - which contradicted what he'd told S some months ago. I don't know why he felt that necessary. As you rightly say, in all practical terms, he could be a mile away for 3 months and I might not see him now.

For some reason, for me, his trip feels significant - and I can't put my finger on why.

Thanks xyzcf. S is astute...he picks up far more than he appears to. He and D have a lot of baggage from their relationship with their Mum and one of the consequences of this is that S doesn't show much emotion and can seem a bit cold - when in fact he notices everything and feels things deeply. He's in counselling and has been for some time and will be for some time - mainly because his mum and a lot now because of his Dad [who definitely did not want to be a parent anymore at BD - he said as much]
Poor kids. Both parents have turned out to be challenging - though I hope in H's case, it's not permanent and damage can be repaired. I'm fairly sure that S would have nothing more to do with his mum now. D is more forgiving - so don't know in her case. She's certainly less critical of her Dad that S is - even though she calls out behaviour by celebrities who too have had affairs and left their families - somehow she doesn't seem as critical of her own dad for doing the same.

The interesting thing about S's convo with H is that it was H who said he knows he's got a problem - knows he's trying to outrun something but doesn't know what. He said as much apparently. But he HAS to go to New Zealand. HAS TO GO. S is baffled by this. S is also baffled by H and the OW. Has now told H that when he sees him, he doesn't want to see her too. S says both are broken and believes she calls the shots. He doesn't like her - and he did try. He went through a period where he just wanted to "live and let live" and if she was there then he'd just get on with it.
Having tried that and spent more time with her - he now says he just doesn't like her and does not understand what his Dad is doing with her. Says their relationship is nothing like his Dad and me.
{none of this is for my benefit btw - I neither encourage or deter. They are adults}

So there it is. The thing about standing for me is - that I found it easier when I had contact with H. Albeit just messages mostly. I have had periods when I've gone dark before. This is the longest we've been without contact - in all these 6+ years.

Thanks both for your insights
x

[MadLuv]

You know my XH has also acknowledged he has a problem and he doesn’t want to face it, so it is just easier to run.  They think that and then realize it all catches up. Maybe this is another moment where he realizes he cant escape himself and so the big 3 month trip might just do it!! 

Kudos to you on being such a good parent to kids that need that in their life. How lucky are they? Pretty darn lucky.

[Music45]

Thanks MadLuv, for your lovely words. I feel very lucky to have them in my life.

[Music45]

Hello
Thought I'd do a quick update as it's been 3+ months...and the news is....there isn't any!

H went on his 3 month trip to NZ with OW. I didn't hear from him at all while he was away. He came back the day before S' birthday so I saw him then and have had a little contact with him re some family matters but effectively he's gone from 6+ years as a clinger (and former boomerang) to a semi-vanisher.

So...coming up on 7 years since BD and....

 

[UrsaMajor]

OW is sinking her claws in deeper and deeper....

It will all be in him whether he CHOOSES to do something about his issues or not. In the meantime, the boat has dropped the rope, jettisoned the anchor and is off making Music of her own...

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Thought I'd do a quick update as it's been 3+ months...and the news is....there isn't any!

What have you done? This is about your journey. While he was off on his vacay with desperate woman, you were there for his children. Who is the better role model? Robinson Crusoe and his sidekick Sunday or you? Madluv is right on how lucky the kids are and how you have done right by them.

Keep us updated on your success and movement forward. I bet there is a lot to post,

(((Ready)))

[rosetintedglasses]

Hey Music,

How are things going?

Hope you are ok
Rose 🌹

[Music45]

Realised that it's nearly a year since I last posted.
Where does the time go?

H remains very distant still. Has been for over a year now after being a clinging boomerang since BD up till then. Rarely hear from him. He lost a distant uncle recently and messaged to tell me  . Someone he hadn't seen for years and I'd never met.
A close friend of his sadly died recently too. H called me after I'd messaged him my condolences (I rarely message but felt it was right to in the circumstances). S thinks H contacts me at these times (death?) as I'm his "core family" . Who knows? Odd but this is his mlc. It's all odd.

Meanwhile I got a rescue dog in January. He's  a mix breed from the streets of Romania and I love him to bits. I lost two labradors since bd and it was time. That feeling of being missed and welcomed back home - regardless - that dogs are brilliant at, is so powerful.

I have mostly good days though i still get wafts of "wth?",  I won't lie. It passes. I enjoy my job. Feel like I'd like to meet someone as don't really want to be alone for the rest of my days but I don't get to meet many single 50+ men so that's my next challenge...

Been in my own (without H) home for nearly 2 years. That's flown by. Have found I can cope with what comes along: fence panels lost in gales, blocked guttering etc without resorting to H who was always there before to fix stuff. Good to find that inner strength is still in there!! 

Thanks for reading.

[Evermore]

Good to hear your update Music. You sound a lot like I feel. Still have those WTF!? moments but they pass and days are now mostly good. H still very distant.

S thinks H contacts me at these times (death?) as I'm his "core family" .

I hadn't thought of it exactly like that ^ before, but I think your S is right because I think my xh still thinks of me as 'core family' as well.

It explains why he still wants to maintain a family health insurance policy and a joint bank account (despite being divorced now for several years and despite living with OW for 5 years). And why he still 'likes' and comments on many of my FB posts. I've tried before to explain the feeling I have about this and about how I think he feels about me/us; but haven't ever managed to explain it well (even to myself). So thank your S for giving me a better way of framing how I think he feels. Yes, yes, I know we can't actually know. It's what I sense though.

I COMPLETELY agree that dogs are brilliant at making us feel loved and needed. Very glad to hear you have a new one in your life.

[Music45]

Thanks Ever
The joint bank account thing in your case is odd isn't it?
Glad you get the wth moments too.
The "core family" hadn't occurred to me either but it does fit how H behaves. Another bonkers gift from mlc.
Keep smiling...