[Albatross]

After reading both parts, I am keen to believe that guy never been in MLC. He even now justify self by having MLC (excuse), fallowing own bliss, no regrets, no remorse, nothing. If something have time frame of whole life then we can't say that it is crisis. I am keen to believe that he have PD (most likely narcissistic) and he will be never cured... He learn nothing from acting out (narcissistic rage) which is hallmark of NPD.

Just some speculations, why his wife easily get read of him and move forward so easy ? In case that he was normal person before crisis, she should not heal self so easy... Just ask self that question.

Just my 2 c.

For all LBS's other side thinking is something which should be gold mine to finally understand how that looks like from other side. Unfortunately, this is not a case. So, there is nothing to learn.

[LisaLives]

Is it only an MLC if it ends in a return to what "was" and reconciliation?  If you admit your spouse was, perhaps, always more than a bit of a narc, or otherwise PDed, does that mean they didn't/couldn't have an MLC?  When people are somewhat PDed and they screw up at midlife, big or little, should their spouses walk out on them?  Does the fact that he still has some ego tied up in his writing mean his wife is justified in not standing? 

What do you all imagine your spouse's "story" will look like when they return?  Do you imagine you are "standing" for a BETTER outcome?  What part of this story seems to make people so upset and want to discount it?  Just curious, I find it interesting that moment is having to defend her friend and his story.  Why is that?   

[osb]

I'm so sorry moment, didn't mean to sound so critical of your friend. I too read it as 'still work in progress' - but wondered aloud if the process ever reaches a conclusion. Perhaps for J it has now.
 
I recall my H saying repeatedly to me, when he was most struggling, "it's so easy for you!!" As in, you never caused such pain, you never destroyed your partner, I can't live with my own guilt, it must be sooo easy to be little Ms Perfect! [aaand cue the monster, stage right  ]  ...Eventually, he said quietly, "it must've been so difficult".

I guess the greater part is to recognize you've screwed up; but learn to live with yourself anyway. The drama and envy is all self-indulgent, after all. The quiet is truth.

[Ready2Transform]

I don't see anyone here coming to the table with anger.  Discussion is not anger.  Looking at the different facets of MLC is not anger.  Glad he continues to move forward, moment. 

Good questions:

What do you all imagine your spouse's "story" will look like when they return?  Do you imagine you are "standing" for a BETTER outcome?

I have no idea, and though some sort of reconciliation where we could move past this would be my highest desire, I do not believe this to be a magical process that "cures" people like an episode of Fantasy Island where they see what life is like on the dark side, and return home better than ever.  I would just like to see my husband healthy again.  Whether or not we reconcile is an unknown. 

What part of this story seems to make people so upset and want to discount it?  Just curious, I find it interesting that moment is having to defend her friend and his story.  Why is that?   

I don't want to discount it, I just see certain aspects of it from a different angle.  I believe it happened, I believe it changed this man and his family's lives forever.  I think there are pros and cons of that, as there are for all of us, whether we ever reconcile or not.

I don't know what this man was like in his prior life, but I do think this was MLC, and that the insights provided are valuable in more than one way.

[Pixiegirl]

I just think the whole story is sad. His W, picked up the pieces of her life and move. Neither of them will ever know what life could have been like had he never went into crisis.

It reminds me of how we grieve the loss of what we had hoped and dreamed the second half of our lives would be. And not just with our spouses but life in general.

 I never dreamed that we would lose our son. We all know someday we will lose our parents but his mom and my dad were very young and died from terminal illnesses where they suffered. I never thought of any of these things until they happened and then we just lived the last 7 years in pure H***.

You would think after all the loss we endured that we would cling to each other and love each other more. This is certainly not the case. Instead he goes off to find his youth and happiness in outer distractions and I go within myself and try to find "me" again so I can rebuild my life and live out what I have left here on this earth happy, content and at peace. Two different journeys. Who really wins here? Start over with someone new or just be alone ?

[Hmmm]

Good question.

My next door neighbour told me recently her ex was actually sectioned as he was so depressed. She now has the most lovely husband. Her ex keeps in contact with their grown up kids and has recently written an article on the internet about depression and how he copes. He has remarried now too.

Although they are both happy-who knows if she had stood and known about MLC?

[stayed]

I agree Ready2, I don't get this anger and this "JUDGING" thing?  We are trying to analyze what he is saying and understand.  It really helps, that you told us, that this man was 2 years out from his CRASH.. THAT honestly explains a lot.  I TOTALLY RECOGNIZE this part of his recovery.  My h was very similar.  He wasn't quite totally REMORSEFUL yet, he didn't quite grasp just how MUCH pain his actions had actually caused... and he WAS terrified to face that.  Thanks for explaining where he was in his recovery, it really DOES make a huge different.

Nobody is judging him moment, truly we are not.  Nor are we angry, at least I am not.  It's just that you could totally see, at the time he wrote this information to you, he still felt/saw only his own pain.  He was devastated at what he had lost.  My h was much the same, as it slowly dawned on him, all he had lost.. which was mostly the RESPECT of his children. 

I totally appreciate you posting this, moment.  Please do not "judge" our reaction, either.  I wish there was as much information available about the stages of the LBS as there are the MLCer.  I would expect there are more then a few LBS's out there, that NEVER recovered or are still "stuck" trying to figure out... "what the he!! happened?

hugs Stayed

[UKStander]

OP, detach, let go and boundaries are not going to bring them out of crisis. Let alone vanishers. Vanishers have no contact with the LBS and their crisis only ends when it ends. Ironically I still think if I had not turned my uber clinger into a vanisher his crisis would had been shorter. Or maybe not.

Putting more pressure upon the already pressured and stressed LBS, give them one more thing to worry: enabling the MLCer depression, is not fair. And does not make sense. If MLC is an individual crisis and a MLCer is going to do what they will do no matter what, no point in adding to the LBS burdens by making a LBS feel like we are responsible for their depression. We are not. Nor for how long it lasts.

Yes, quite. I think. I don't know. My head is spinning now.... This is so totally confusing.  I think I have boundaries. I don't think I'm 'facilitating' anybody's crisis in any way.  Or am I?  Do tell...

[stayed]

Nobody is suggesting anybody is facilitating anybody's crisis, Uk.  We are just saying that boundaries are essential.  Without them, we think, you allow yourself to be dragged back into their crisis and then feed the fire... the drama.  Whether it prolongs the crisis, who the hell knows, but it sure as hell PROLONGS your agony. 

You aren't facilitating anybody's anything, accept your own pain . hugs Stayed

[UKStander]

OK. I think I am accepting my own pain. I certainly live with it day on day.

I sometimes wonder whether we aren't all of us too wrapped up in the details of this. We have the evidence now, plain as day. Shouldn't we be collectively going out there and lobbying and doing something to get greater recognition of 'the condition' and stop further suffering? 

At least then we've had turned all this dross into something good.