[stayed]

Organize the rally UkStander and give me a weeks notice.  I'll stand with you for sure.

Hugs Stayed

[kikki]

I can see that  J was a 'work in process' at the time of writing, but really appreciate his insightful, and articulate view.

As time went by my wife withdrew and stopped reacting, she started treating me with respect  and courtesy, this only exacerbated my resentment of her because she was no longer enabling my projections of everything being her fault.  You see I had set up my wife to fail she was dammed if she did and dammed if she didn’t.

Interesting to have this confirmed

Cheating on my affair partner did bring some guilt which I again justified by viewing the quality of our relationship as a trade off – she gave me everything I had complained about my wife not giving me – kinkier sex, thinner sexier body, participating in all my interests at the expense of her own – the trade off – I had money and paid for most things from expensive dinners to upmarket get always.  Furthermore, she had compromised her integrity by having an affair with me, like me she was not to be trusted, like me she had no honour – so she did not deserve my faithfulness.  I guess I blamed her for helping me break up my marriage.  And a deeper part of me knew that unlike my wife who fell in love with me when I was a penniless student with a beat up old car, who had loved me through my successes and failures – and still believed in me in spite of my failures – my affair partner being a young, corporate woman fell in love with the successful image I presented – so she ‘loved’ the image not the man behind the image.  My affair partner would not have given me a second glance if I had driven a moderate car instead of a luxury car or not spent the kind of money i spent on her – again a justification for my awful behavior.

Also interesting that the OW is viewed with such disregard too.  She really is a distraction, at least in this case.

I too wonder if they ever fully 'get it'?  Can anyone ever fully understand if that is not their own experience? 
Very few people are able to fully empathise with our situations, unless they have experienced it themselves.

[a]

Dear All

Thank you for all your kind words and gratitude. 

May i add that i posted this to help people get some clarity but it seems that even what J wrote is open to different interpretations based on our perceptions, projections and conditioning.  So i am not so sure if it's helped or just fortified our attachment to a possible outcome for our MLCers and our M.

When i first read J's emails to me i did not see a selfish ego but rather a person struggling with the realities of what his actions had done to his family not so much to himself - i really did not see the selfishness in his emails i saw the opposite.  I saw a man struggling to overcome his failings and man trying to come to terms with what he had done.  I never really tried to analyse his emails through the perspective of the various stages of MLC because to this day i'm still not sure about MLC.

I think as human beings we all experience different hardships in life and our hardship is one of being a LBS.  But we all know there a many other hardships that people suffer.  Our hardship is a broken heart, and a betrayal that makes us question all our perceptions and what is real.  I know that because of what XH has done i struggled for a long time to trust in my perceptions of the world and of people in general. 

Because of J i was able to accept and allow myself to feel the anger towards H, to allow myself the opportunity to allow myself the expression of my darkest emotions.  I know that in my desperation to reconcile with XH i squashed those negative feelings - i was so busy trying to reach that higher state of love "agape" that i denied my darkest thoughts.  It was only when i accepted and allowed myself the freedom to express how i truly felt and not deny these emotions behind a veil of false kindness and compassion for XH that my healing began.  When i stopped denying my anger i really started to heal.  It was once i acknowledged how i truly felt and it was not pretty that i was then able to come to a place where i could have sincere feelings of kindness and compassion towards XH.  Although as it stands i still vacillate between compassion and love, and anger and, dare i say it, disgust at who XH has chosen to become.

I also no longer feel the need to analyse XH and his journey.  He is no longer part of my every day reality and i choose not to think about what if's.

I think we mourn for J and/or his XW based on how we are perceiving and relating to our situation but when you see J and his XW - they truly do not live with what if's.  Yes they acknowledge that if J had done things differently and if XW had waited they could very well be in a happy relationship. But they also recognise that they made choices based on what they understood at the time. It was based on what J's XW understood that she made a different choice to the one we are making as LBS's trying to stand or at the very least trying to work out what our MLCers are doing.

Maybe we are keeping our pain alive for longer than necessary.  I just wonder if we had followed XW path of mourning the loss and dealing with the reality that the M was over if we might not be in a better place and possibly further down the line of our recovery.

Whatever damage J caused he, at least has made more effort than most to become a better human being and to acknowledge the part he played in causing so much damage.  I don't think my XH will ever get to this place.  I believe he has made a new life for himself which he has justified to himself.  I believe XH seldom, if ever thinks of me and if he does it is not with love.  And funnily enough i have come to a place where it just does not matter anymore what XH thinks of me. 

I have realized through all this i do not want XH back and maybe today i understand what J's XW was feeling.  I am done with XH and am ready to move forward and make a new life for myself.  I consider my M as simply a chapter in my book of life and now i am ready to start a new chapter.  But this time i am wiser - there were many things in XH i over-looked but second time round i know the kind of man i would like to share my life with. 

I wish you all a journey that takes you to a place of peace and acceptance.

The Buddhists have a saying "the only constant in life is change"  maybe as LBS's we are resisting the change that has come our way and we are trying to recapture what was - food for thought.

take care
moment

[kikki]

The Buddhists have a saying "the only constant in life is change"  maybe as LBS's we are resisting the change that has come our way and we are trying to recapture what was - food for thought.

Maybe we are keeping our pain alive for longer than necessary.  I just wonder if we had followed XW path of mourning the loss and dealing with the reality that the M was over if we might not be in a better place and possibly further down the line of our recovery.

I don't think our pathway, which I personally view as learning and self healing, rather than trying to control a particular outcome, is a head choice.  I believe it's an intuitive heart choice. 
It just is. 

I remember Oprah being interviewed about her choice to no longer continue her daily show.  She said it changed for her when the energy had gone out of it.  She knew it was time for something different as she had learnt all she was going to learn in the situation.

I believe that is exactly what happens to us.  While the energy is there, there are still things for us to learn, or resolve for ourselves.  If the energy goes out of it for us, I do think that is when we move on for good. 

Looks like J's XW had the energy go out of it for her before he was done with the worst of his crisis. Whether that happens for us or not, is an individual thing, and probably not a decision that our heads will make. 

[xyzcf]

Dear Moment,

I am very glad that you have shared this with us for so much of it reminds me of my husband's behavior and actions  and that brings me some comfort.

I have just read a book by Alice Miller called "The Drama of the Gifted Child. Uncovering your true self" and it talks about the emotional unavailability in infancy and childhood and the effect later on in a person's life. J talked about that as well.

I also do not understand the judgement and tearing apart of his story that has occurred in some of the posts here. He has stated how he feels, what he was going through and that is huge in my mind.

I am one who believes in being compassionate to my husband, indeed, anger for me has never been a very big part of the equation. As time goes on, I see how very "messed up" he is. I relate well to RCR's articles that talk about agape and unconditional love.

We have always said that the LBSer gets to decide in the end whether to accept them back or not. Personally, since I think it is better for families and society for marriages to continue, I see his story and hers as a lost possibility to resolve and restore something that was once beautiful. I look at the stats on 2nd marriages and the research that has stated that people who were unhappy in their marriages who divorced were not as happy as those who remained married 5 years later.....anyway, doesn't matter....we all have our own very deep reasons why we stand or not.

Again I thank you for sharing this. Please also tell J that his words have been very helpful. The more we learn about this condition, and indeed we can really only learn from those who have experienced the actual crisis, the better equipped we are to make the difficult decisions we must make as our life continues to unfold.

[HeartTattoo]

Ironic though it is, and though it doesn't help a fast passage out of here and to peace for the LBS, the MLC-ers deserve our pity. Dreadful word. Maybe I mean sympathy.

Reading J's first letter, I just kept thinking the word "pathetic".  And J himself uses the word pathetic himself in his 2nd letter.  Understanding my H as a pathetic creature, who I believe is suffering, gives me a sense of power.  I don't understand why.  I guess his pathetic weakness validates for me that he didn't choose OW because he believes her better in some way or because of any failing on my part, but out of some sort of desperation.  The OW's smug satisfaction with her "new life" is then even more pathetic.  And the pathetic crash that both of them have coming someday also gives me some satisfaction as well.

None of this is "enlightened" for sure.  I have a lot of compassion for my H & I believe one day I will reach a stage of true forgiveness, but for right now, if it helps me, I'm just going to continue thinking of him & the OW as sick, pathetic creatures.

[cosette]

Just now attaching so that I do not lose your thread.  I have only read your first posts.  All I can say is WOW!

[HeartTattoo]

I also do not understand the judgement and tearing apart of his story that has occurred in some of the posts here. He has stated how he feels, what he was going through and that is huge in my mind.

XYZ,

I don't see any anger, or judgment, or tearing apart of J's story here.  The MLCer in the midst of crisis & recovery is such a mystery, that I think as we read the accounts, we just have so many more questions, & yes, of course, we each read it through the filters of our own experiences.

Many thanks to moment for sharing her friend's experience & to her friend J for allowing her to publish it here.  While no two MLCers are quite the same, the story did validate for me many things I often doubt.

I look at the stats on 2nd marriages and the research that has stated that people who were unhappy in their marriages who divorced were not as happy as those who remained married 5 years later.....anyway, doesn't matter....we all have our own very deep reasons why we stand or not.

X, I don't see how this research has any relevance for any of us.  Of course, people who work on their problems & remain together will be happier than those who just cut & run & D.  But, none of us are in that situation; that is exactly why we are all here.  We had no choice at all in the matter & our MLCers all chose/were compelled to cut & run instead of remaining engaged with the M & working out problems.  What has this research to do with standing?  Maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying here?

[Thunder]

moment-When i first read J's emails to me i did not see a selfish ego but rather a person struggling with the realities of what his actions had done to his family not so much to himself - i really did not see the selfishness in his emails i saw the opposite.  I saw a man struggling to overcome his failings and man trying to come to terms with what he had done. 

I saw the same thing, moment.  I found it very honest and sad.
I'm glad your friend and his XW are in a happier place now....even though I feel his regret will probably never really go away.
He lost a lot.  What a terrible journey.

[Searching4Answers]

I remember Oprah being interviewed about her choice to no longer continue her daily show.  She said it changed for her when the energy had gone out of it.  She knew it was time for something different as she had learnt all she was going to learn in the situation.

I believe that is exactly what happens to us.  While the energy is there, there are still things for us to learn, or resolve for ourselves.  If the energy goes out of it for us, I do think that is when we move on for good. 

Looks like J's XW had the energy go out of it for her before he was done with the worst of his crisis. Whether that happens for us or not, is an individual thing, and probably not a decision that our heads will make.

I think this a great example of what happens. I see my energy going else where - away from my MLC situation.