[StormChaser]

Hi everyone,

Time to share my story. Been lurking around for a few months...

My BD was June 1 2016. I found out about the OM through texts on my W's phone the morning before she was leaving on an international business trip. I confronted her and she dropped the bomb. Like many, I was completely oblivious to where our relationship had gone and in complete shock on finding out.

I am 47, W is 46. We have three boys S6, S9, S11 and have been married 12 years, together 17. Since one month after bomb drop, we have been splitting time at our house with the other staying at a rented one bedroom apartment. We share custody 50% but she travels for work quite frequently and the one week on, one week off schedule has been subject to a lot of changes.

The OM is a work colleague of my W. He is a few years younger. The physical affair started in March and he ended it (AFAIK) when W told him that she had left me. It has since turned into an EA and is still ongoing. He is married with no kids. Interestingly, he is remarkably similar to me - similar racial persuasion, personality-wise, similar physical characteristics. He lives in another country - but they chat by text all day every day.

My wife has told me that she feels hurt, neglected, angry and frustrated by me not "being there for her" and not being an equal partner in the marriage. She feels that I put everything in our lives ahead of her. She feels that I didn't pull my weight around the house. She feels that I put a higher priority on our kids and playing sports than taking care of her. She feels that I didn't talk her love languages, even after we talked about how we could both do more. Many of her points are valid, and I've been working on the parts of it that I can that don't involve her. The one thing that she says that is tough for me to swallow is that she says that I "checked out" of our marriage and I understand how she had that perception, especially with her own state of mind.

Our current living arrangement will change in the spring when the lease for the apartment runs out. We haven't yet discussed what will happen at this point. I am considering asking her to find her own place and staying in our house full-time at that point, but can't talk to her about that yet. I'm also going to suggest that our boys spend slightly more time with me as I rarely travel for work during the week.

As far as I can tell, her behaviour is "text book" MLC. When the PA was ongoing, she started exercising, new clothes, new sexy underthings, etc. She also travelled constantly (many of the trips to meet up with OM) and pulled back emotionally from me. After BD, I got the ILYBINILY as well as typical behaviour for someone still in the midst of a PA. As I said, when W told the OM that she was leaving me, he ended the PA immediately.  She has dedicated herself to her job since then prioritizing work over the kids on many occasions.

She has projected many issues on to me that are hers alone and has not really started any self work. She is firmly still in Replay (still deep in the EA) and I don't see any movement any time soon. She has monstered at me many times, accusing me of being a terrible father, of doing 2% of things around the house - which, although I didn't do enough, I certainly did more than that. She has also maintained the blaming game - all the hurt, anger and resentment that she has is my fault.

One interesting dynamic for us is that we have both travelled a lot over the 10+ years that we have kids, so we are both accustomed to being "single" parents on occasion. After BD, I looked at the schedule and realized that W had been on the road for over 60 days of the previous year. Did I mention that we have three boys under the age of 11?

Since the BD, she has forsaken her family and most of her/our friends. She has told very few people that she is separated and even some of her immediate work colleagues still don't know over 5 months later.

About two months after BD, she suggested that we "try" and be friends. She broke off the relationship with the OM and we went on a number of dates. She would monster on occasion but we were able to spend time together as a family, which the kids appreciated. She seemed happy on the surface and as I'm sure many can imagine, I was overly optimistic about what it meant. After about three weeks of this, I found out that she had started chatting with OM again. When I confronted her, she admitted it, no remorse or regrets. Being betrayed yet again, I was crushed.

I reset the boundary of her choosing between being friends with the OM or me, but not both. Since that time, she has tried to cake eat and I've tried different ways of dealing with it. I've run out of variations to try on my end and it's down to contact regarding the kids right now. I've finally accepted her decision and decided to be firm on that boundary from my point of view.

There hasn't been any legal action to date.

Immediately after BD, I was able to book some time with an IC. I saw her regularly during the first three months and intermittently over the last two. W started seeing the same IC about three weeks after BD and AFAIK continues to see her. We had two sessions of MC with her, but both were disasters.

Now, about five months in, I'm in a good spot. I'm standing (for now) and I understand that my W is deep in the tunnel and that the only way she can get out of it is on her own. The first two months were very dark for me and personally challenging. I was able to focus on my kids early on - W was gone for work travel 11 of the first 15 days after BD. And that helped me cope as it kept me very busy. Then, I was able to focus on setting up the shared apartment. Unfortunately, at that point, I was still thinking I was doing it "for her", but I also live there to, so it worked out fine. And I was able to initially detach and start GAL right before she came back to "try". That set me back quite a ways in terms of detachment, and my boundaries.

I've been surrounded and supported by great friends. I have a number of people who I can lean on and have provided support and sometimes guidance. Lots of them ask me the right questions instead of telling me what to do. My MIL and FIL are also very supportive. I feel bad for them, because, despite me trying to explain what their D is going through, they are challenged in understanding how she can make the awful decisions that she has made.

I've cycled many times through too high expectations (always followed by huge disappointment - I know shocking) and refocusing on myself. I chose StormChaser as my user name because I likened my W to a tornado and I kept jumping in front of it and getting spit out the back. I tried many things to speed up the process, even though I know intellectually that I can't speed up anything. I gave her the ultimatum of choosing between the OM/EA and friendship with me. I pointed out the financial realities of divorce and how it will affect her (not great for me, but disastrous for her). I have said to her many of the things I've read in other threads, both good and bad. I'm good at self work and that's helping me be resilient through this. I truly believe that I've tried everything I can on my end - of course realizing that the only thing I can do is work on me and nothing I do to my W or for my W will change her journey...

The first thing that I needed to work on was doing my share around the house. Well, as a single dad of three kids, I haven't had any choice but to deliver on that. The house is well kept, I'm making good meals and keeping the kids to their schedules for school, home life and sports. Another thing that I need to work on are praise where praise is due, gratitude and acknowledgement of effort over results. As I can't work on this with the W still in the fog, I'm trying to work on it at work (I run a company) and with my boys.

I'm struggling with detaching. I'm working on it, and sometimes I'm better than other times. I reread the content here on self work and detachment frequently to try and internalize it. My IC gave me some good tips for how to try and overcome bullying thoughts and work it through.

My W is a pleaser and an internalizer by nature and those are mainly the things that have brought her into this journey. She sought to make others happy by doing. She would rarely ask for help. She wouldn't share how she felt (and still isn't with me) with me or anyone else for that matter. She feels that she shared how she felt when she told me that she was frustrated I didn't help out more around the house or do the dishes or other tasks. She feels that I didn't listen to her - and she's right. I tuned out what I thought was nagging, thinking that I was doing my best and that was good enough. I didn't think about what was important to her. After feeling unappreciated and starting to ask herself why she wasn't happy, her transition began. It became a crisis when I didn't respond how she wanted. I wish I had known how she felt and I wish I had acted on what she gave me, but you don't know what you don't know. I thought we were happy...

I remember the first weeks, just trying to get by hour by hour. Getting to day by day was a big achievement. Then I got to week by week, but was derailed. I feel that I'm back to week by week and looking forward to month by month!

My main goals right now are to get better at detachment, to ensure that I'm a lighthouse and to be patient.

Looking forward to being a recipient and contributor to this amazing community.

Thx for listening...

A note from RCR - 2023
It's been requested that this thread be added to the list of reconciliation threads.
The moderators and I discussed it briefly and we felt I should add a little disclaimer that this situation may have been a milder crisis or a not-quite-crisis Midlife Transition. Reconciliation is something to be celebrated, but at the same time I don't want to falsely inflate hope with a situation that may be an outlyer. With that in mind I've just posted Was it a short Midlife Transition or an incomplete Midlife Crisis? at the blog, this article discusses how you might discern of a Midlife Transition is at crisis levels or not.

[Mara]

Welcome to this forum. I m sorry you have to be here, but know you will be understand and in good company!

Mara

[Tyks]

Welcome. Sorry you have to join us Sounds like you have had a rough go. Most of what you have said is true for me. Been there done that in 2.5 months. I am sure you will get the support you need from this forum. These people are invaluable.

[StormChaser]

Thank you Mara and TK,

Tonight was my S11's birthday dinner. Out for dinner with MIL, FIL, W and kids. Stayed distant and chose to not read anything at all into W's words, behaviour and actions.

After, had to go back to our family house (her week with the kids) to get some clothes and for my S to open some presents. I was able to not start any discussions, not say anything I would regret. Kept things "transactional" and when I left, I didn't have the knot in my stomach that leaving the kids usually gives me.

All in all, a good night...

[UrsaMajor]

Hi StormChaser,

Welcome to the party to which NO ONE EVER wanted an invitation.

You have come to a good place here. Since you have been "lurking" and reading threads I probably don't need to be preaching to the choir but...

1) Make sure that you are financially secure. Mid-Lifers, when they go off the rails, can burn through cash like a wildfire in a dry forest.
2) Make sure that you are taking care of yourself: Don't forget to (in this order) Breathe, Eat and Sleep. The LBS Diet is a killer and sleep deprivation can really affect your health, both mentally and physically.
3) You say you are actively GALíng - GOOD! Just remember that GAL does NOT mean making yourself SO busy that you don't have some time for yourself too.
4) You have 3 boys so you have your hands full, my friend. I have a boy (9) and a girl (5) so I can related somewhat... You'll need to be the stable parent here- do not be surprised if your kids occasionally have this or that melt-down. They too will need to adjust to the situation.
5) Boundaries are good, threats and ultimatums not so much...
6) I am sure that OldPilot will come along soon with his own Welcome Message. In his note, he has LOTS of very good links of the docs available here on the site. I have a link to the "Newbies Survival Guide" in my signature which is a sort of ëmergency first Aid" kit
7) Remember the Rule of 3 - this goes along with the "Respond rather than React" philosophy. Before replying, wait... 3 minutes, 3 hours, 3 days, 3 weeks if needed.... Put together a response rater than just reacting and firing off the first thing that comes to mind because.
This is HER crisis.. You didn't cause it, you can't do ANYTHING to change it, you can't stop it, you can't speed it up.. It is HER journey that SHE has to go through. These are HER demons that SHE will have to come to terms with... You have no more influence over the course of her journey thn you do over the course of a tornado (as you already put it) You can stand in the way, yell and scream and wave your arms at it and that will accomplish exactly nothing, except to either get flattened or caught up in the whirlwind of Mid-Life Madness. Neither of these is a truly viable option, especially since you have kids...

Like I said, this is a good place to have found because the people who are part of this forum have been or are where you are  at nearly any time in your journey so we DO get it whereas many people in your circle of family adn friends will just NOT have a clue what it is like, having never been there themselves.

OP will also tell you in his opening note - You have been given the gift of time. It may, at times, feel more like a curse than a gift but it IS, truly, a gift.  You have been doing mirror work and that is good, carry on. You have done some significant self-reflection - GOOD! Carry on!  None of us is perfect and rose-colored glasses aside, none of us had the "perfect marriage" despite the appearance to the contrary. That being said, we didn't just check the baby out with the bath water and walk away form our partner.  Therefore, take the accusations with the knowledge that, in MLC-Land, EVERYTHING, up to and including Global warming, the Plague, and the results of the election are seen by the Mid-Lifer to be the fault of the LBS. See what stings - those may be things that need some personal work and reflection. see what leaves you scratching your head and saying "Where the Firetruck did THAT come from?" Those are things that are probably more projection from your Mid-lifer...

Finally, be gentle with yourself. Yes, it is hard, yes it is painful but at the end of the day, you will make it through this....

UrsaMajor

[Thunder]

Hi Stormchaser (love the name),   

You've been given some good advice so I just wanted to add, you are doing really good!  Boundaries, GAL, stepping up with mirror work...all of it.

You've also learned there is absolutely nothing you can do to speed this crisis up.  She needs to go through the whole thing before she can be a proper W again.  Keep your expectations very low.

Lastly, don't think for one minute she can be your friend right now, she can't.  For some reason they always want to be "friends"..I suppose the guilt.
Being friendly and light is not the same as being friends.

[StormChaser]

Thanks UM and Thunder,

UM - I've been through the LBS diet and sleep issues already (lost about 15lbs) and fortunately or unfortunately, I've gotten my appetite back and have put on about half of it back. Sleeping got better after the first month or so. About when the random sobbing stopped. I'm now enjoying the fact I get to cook for the kids - love to cook and that's one of the things I let go of over the years. Last two weeks for the kid included BBQ steaks, pot roast, pork tenderloin and yummy teriyaki stirfry! Quite proud of how much they like the cooking.

Yes, 3 boys means hands are full, but there is a certain peace for me when I have them. It's busy, but also a routine that's as good for me as it is for them. Most importantly, I get to just be with them and talk to them and see how their days have been. One thing is that my W has been, for the most part, a good mom to the boys. She hasn't vanished, she's travelling A LOT for work, and when she's there, she's probably texting more than she should, but overall, she's being a good mom. That said, one of her key issues is the need to "keep up appearances" and not being in the house, but being around her occasionally with the kids (like last night) she can put on her facade quite well.

I also know that its good for me to work on modelling good and healthy behaviour. I'm the first to admit I lose my temper with the boys more often than I should (and I did before BD too, so that's a work in progress), I'm also finding out that I'm getting better at learning how to listen to them and communicate. The boys in general have been awesome. They act up of course and they get upset. My oldest could use some better coping mechanisms because he's bottling up, much like my W. I'm pushing him to talk whenever we have time to just us two, but its tough. And my younger two respond to touch and quality time as their love languages so I'm working hard on that.

I like to use my weeks off the kids for GALing, only had a couple days this week before I'm back with my oldest for a week and was able to go out for dinner with close friends and lunch with a high school friend.

For the ultimatum - it was a progression of her continually disrespecting my key boundary. It was really the only way to get her to understand that she kept crossing it and to get her to abide by it. I tried letting it go, being "friendly" but of course that doesn't work - I still had to try. Now that she's not cake eating, I don't have to keep pushing her away...

I've read many of your posts and I've found your insights to be helpful so I appreciate you chiming in!

It may have come across as I'm pretty hard on myself, but I also just didn't want to appear like I'm thinking its all her and the MLC. I'm plenty aware of my short comings, but also realize I could have done all the things I didn't and this still may have happened to her exactly the same way. To your point, I've gotten past the point where things sting, because I know my opportunities for growth but she still blames me for "everything". Her journey is her journey.

Thunder,

I've read many of your posts too, so appreciate you taking the time to read mine! I'm trying to completely eliminate ANY expectations on my part. That's been hard, but working towards it. And ya, she has very much wanted to be "friends" while cake eating. If she had her way, part of our relationship would be just like it was before BD with light little chats about her work colleagues and this that or the other thing that happened to her that day. I can't be that support for her. She needs to know that she pushed that away.

My feeling is that she has closed so many other doors (family and friends) that she felt that because I told her I loved her despite what she was doing, she could always keep our door open. She said that she only had 3 people to talk to and she pays one of them for the privilege. Well, the two others are her best friend who will support her (not necessarily agree with her) till the end of the world, and the alienator. I've been blessed with enough friends that i trust and respect that I've found a few of my friends who I can go to when I get down. I'm very lucky that way. So by enforcing the boundary of no "friendship" while she maintains the EA with the OM, she gets to live in her tiny little bubble of confidantes.

Thanks!

[Shocked]

Hi stormchaser!  Glad you came out of the shadows!! Feeling the warmth you will receive from your fellow LBSs is balm!!! I had never known about the damage if a MLC. I thought it was a joke or at most a 3 month condition like mending a broken leg. But no unfortunately it's a very real condition that the rest of world has no understanding of. Being here will give you comfort and strength. Pulling for you!!!!

[StormChaser]

Thanks Shocked.

I've spent a fair bit of time reading over a number of threads lately, new and old. It's good to see that so many behaviours are from the "script" and that what I've seen isn't new, just new to me. It really helps me get my own bearings and establish what I want to be my north star through the process.

So many OM or OW are Affairs down. But it seems my wife has picked a version of me instead. He's slightly younger, unencumbered by our three children - but married, comes from some money. But personality-wise, he's very similar - almost too similar. Their time together has always been in what i call "lala land" - almost always on business trips or through texts and with one exception, she has never been around him with the kids. Before I found out about the A/BD, she made a weekend trip with our S6 and hooked up. I still can't believe the unbelievable lack of judgment around that, but it's MLC. Of course she's "in love" with him despite the fact he ended the PA immediately after she did the BD to me. She has maintained the EA however. He lives in another country and there seems to be no possibility of a future, yet she's holding out for that. I assume that this is normal? Haha - I mean normal for an MLCer?

As well, today, took my S11 to see a psychologist. It went well, he's not feeling nearly as stressed as he was three weeks ago but he asked for two things. He wanted me to spend more time with him and his brothers. As it is, I'm already spending more time with them than my W. So I explained that to him, and he was disappointed a bit, but at this point, I can't push for more time. I may do that when we renegotiate custody schedules for the new year. As well, he asked that we have more "family time". I told him that we did want to, but travel schedules (including his) have made that hard to do. I hope that he didn't feel that I was being dismissive of him...

Anyone have any experiences they would like to share for how they handled the first separated Christmas? I've started buying my boys some gifts from me as my W mostly took care of it for us over the last few years - that's one of the things that I dropped the ball on. But we haven't finalized custody or family time schedules at all. I'm worried it will be contentious.

Also starting to gather my thoughts on how living arrangements will change after April when our lease runs out. Thinking its time for me to start planning with a bit more of a reality/future focus. She won't be able to afford the house, so I may say it's time for her to get her own place. I'm even fantasizing a little about how uncluttered certain parts of the house may be if she moves out. That's a bit of a guilty pleasure.

Overall, with her being in Mexico for the week, I'm feeling nice and detached. Worked through some minor anger over last weekend being away from the city myself. Some good mirror work on grace. Now thinking hard about GAL over the coming weeks. Bring it on!

[Seeing The Light]

Hi Stormchaser, welcome to the club... sorry you are here, but you will find the best support possible outside of getting your own IC to talk to.  

Just some thoughts come to mind as I read your story about your W OM.  You indicated that he looks like you, acts like you, he's just a little bit younger and has no children and is also M as well.  I'm wondering if maybe your W sees the OM as the "safe" (not indicating that you are dangerous or anything like that, just that she can interact with this OM and not have to worry about commitment, etc) version of you?  She's stated that you had "checked out", so she's getting the emotional rush aka "In love" feelings for him because he was paying attention to her, etc.  You also stated that as soon as she told OM that she separated from you that OM ended the PA immediately and it has since gone back to an EA. 

That seems to indicate to me that the OM has no intention of leaving his W and was, unfortunately, using your W.  I'm not trying to excuse either person's behavior... but there is definitely a pattern here.  He may be continuing the EA portion of it because she continues to talk to him and it's probably exciting for them both. 

My H is still in contact with his MOW2 and their relationship was an EA.  I still believe that the BD speech was about her, that he felt this strong emotional connection to her.  She is the true "Damsel in Distress", with a husband that treats her wrong, tons of health conditions, people pleaser, can't say no to anyone, let's other people treat her wrong, etc, etc, etc. 

My H likes to help everyone and became the shoulder to lean on and the person that would listen to her.  Since things weren't right with our R, they started talking to each other about their relationships and bam, there you go, EA.  Their R never turned physical because she couldn't spend any time alone with him and he was actually having a PA with single, much YOUNGER OW1.  Funny thing?  MOW2 was the one that he connected with emotionally, OW1 was just too young mentally. 

Anyway, MOW2 still contacts my H through texts and phone.  My H doesn't seem to remember that he told me a month after BD that MOW2 was the one for him, that she "got him" because she's the same age as him, etc (hello changing history!).  The relationship between them is no longer the same as it was, texting is a lot less, calls are a lot less and my H has invited her over to do stuff with both of us.  (this is strange for me!)  However, her H has told her that she's not allowed to talk to my H but she continues to do so.  I've made the choice to not make him chose between us because I can see that my H is detaching from her over time.  The calls are less, the texts are less and he clearly doesn't feel the same way about her anymore.

My point behind this is, it is good to set boundaries in your relationship and you have to set the ones that work for you that you can enforce.  She is still getting something from the OM that is encouraging her to keep the relationship going with him.  Possibly the "him or me" boundary may be the one that is keeping the "excitement" in the relationship going... she's feeling sneaky and the adrenaline is pumping, which makes her feel alive and special.  So a suggestion may be to try setting a different type of boundary with him... such as no texting/calling him in front of you or you will leave the room, no texting or calling OM in front of the children, etc. 

Also, found a great podcast recommended on this forum by others that may answer some questions, too.  It's Marriage Radio -> When your Spouse Loves Someone Else.  I actually got a lot of questions answered by listening to it. 

[OldPilot]

Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

Do you want a mentor?

Please make a request on the  Want a Mentor? stickie
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PM  me.

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Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[EmeraldDiamond]

Hi Stormchaser! I love your username and the story behind it.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things, especially the mirror work. I definitely need to do more myself. Likewise I'm not blaming problems solely on the MLC, I've got a share of the troubles, too. But! We can be part of the solution and that's an encouraging thought. Even if it's a single spouse doing the work. That's one more than nothing

[Tyks]

I am also wondering about Christmas plans this year. I hope you get some answers

It is so too bad that we all have to go through this. It seems so unfair. One thing is for sure, everything happens for a reason. We just don't know the reason yet.

[StormChaser]

This week with my W away (on a trip with my S6 and S9) while I stay home with S11 has been so good for my emotional well being. Forced limited contact. Ability to completely separate her from my life. No discussion of R. No drama. No mixed messages. Time to think about her actions and reflect on what she's going through. Time to think about my actions and reflect on where I'm going.

Funny, she texted this morning about flights home. She's on standby for one of the segments. I figure she texted me because OM probably wasn't awake yet. Amazing how we just assume these things about our spouses. Yet, she hasn't texted since the time OM would likely be awake - so is it really just an assumption? There, too much time spent thinking about her circus and monkeys today already!

For our Christmas plans, I've asked her to email me what she would like to do - trying to avoid a contentious discussion and get her to firmly decide something. By it being email it should take away any risk of me reacting or needing to defend. I'll be able to take the time I need to digest, and respond appropriately... I know that her parents and my BIL have suggested going up to their cabin during the week after, but we (her mom, her brother and me) all need to wait and see what she expects first.

Looking forward to seeing my youngest two boys after over a week away. Hope the weekend is drama free too!

[StormChaser]

Just journaling...

So, the weekend wasn't completely drama free, but I survived. It really is amazing how MLC affects so many people the same way.

I was trying so hard not to get drawn in, but my user name is StormChaser for a reason.

My W, S6 and S9 got back from their trip on Saturday afternoon. I got home from my S11's hockey practice when my W had just finished unpacking her car and bringing in the luggage from their trip. I went in, (it was my weekend with the kids) and she literally completely ignored me - which is fine - it's what I expect since I've gone 180 before Halloween. She did ask me one or two questions, but nothing unreasonable. She left and asked when and where my oldest's hockey game on Sunday was being played. Side note - she has been to exactly 2 out of 14 games for my son this year - yet she insists that she is putting the children first. She left and it was nice to see my younger two again... So she texts me later and asks if I'm ok that she'll stay at the house on Monday night (I'm there and I have a flight super early on Tuesday). I reply "whatever you prefer - please stop worrying about what I'm thinking".  "I just didn't want you to be uncomfortable"... she says.

So then she starts outlining a bunch of plans for Christmas, as if we were sitting at the dining room table going over it. So, I start doing what I shouldn't. I don't what what I'm supposed to do or not do, I say. I also ask "what makes you think I'm uncomfortable around you?". "Because you can barely say hello or be in the same room with me." I point out that it doesn't mean I'm uncomfortable, I'm choosing to to not spend time with you because of the choice you made. Well it got worse from there. She spewed, a lot, and insisted that because I "neglected" her, she was justified in doing what she did and what she's doing... Typical MLC logic. I pointed out that I never intended to hurt her, that I was unaware how unhappy she was (just as her friends, our friends and her family were unaware) and she said that by saying I didn't intend it, I was saying I did no wrong.

In this scenario I'm supposed to answer "I'm sorry you feel that way..." but I didn't, not even close. Engaged with the spew and got blame and piss and vinegar. The fact I never meant to hurt her is apparently supposed to make it all better. Don't recall saying that, but MLCers manage to twist everything around don't they? She's started to call her "facade" of pretending that everything was fine "complacency". So that her deceiving me by pretending everything was fine and then ultimately betraying our marriage with the affair was just "complacency". Yet she insists that she is acknowledging what she did to me, our kids, her family.

She also insisted that the OM, who is now essentially her best friend, they text all day every day, yet he is "just a friend". I mentioned that as an ex-lover, he could never be just a friend. She didn't respond to that...

Our discussion also moved into expectations. She tried to tell me that she was living up to my expectations. More guilting. Her expectations of herself have always been higher than mine, her parents, her friends... Its probably one of the key drivers in her crisis. I pointed this out, which she claimed was finding fault and laying blame on her... Well if they shoe fits... She has spent so much time comparing herself and our family to others. "most of our friends houses were cleaner". I pointed out that just wasn't true. She was setting her expectations based on comparing to others instead of what made her and her family happy. She changed the subject... Wonder why?

So near the end of the text messages, she says "I just want us to be able to say hello and be in the same room together". I point out that I can be, but with the choices she made regarding my boundaries, I'm choosing not to do that. She tried to tell me that trying to sort out the planning for Monday night - whether she would stay at the house or the condo we've rented - was blurring the line on my boundaries... Seeing as she can't even see the line of the boundary, I guess she would have trouble understanding how it works. I pointed out that if she wants to be friends with the OM then she will just have to get used to not being friends with me. "I need to put me first. To find out who I truly am once I get through all the layers. And past all of the expectations. Mine or others..."

The words sound right, but who knows...

Anyway, long post full of play by play... I'm spent and a little disappointed that I couldn't stay away from the R talk. She's so clearly still in the tunnel... I know I need to forget about it and do my work, but I was a moth to a flame on this one.

Time to refocus on the important things. Rant over... Thanks for listening.

[Tyks]

Oh man, they really can test our patience, can't they ?  I am sorry this happened. I hope you can put it out of your mind and get some decent rest. Oh right, we don't rest anymore 

[Seeing The Light]

Just journaling...

So, the weekend wasn't completely drama free, but I survived. It really is amazing how MLC affects so many people the same way.

I was trying so hard not to get drawn in, but my user name is StormChaser for a reason.

My W, S6 and S9 got back from their trip on Saturday afternoon. I got home from my S11's hockey practice when my W had just finished unpacking her car and bringing in the luggage from their trip. I went in, (it was my weekend with the kids) and she literally completely ignored me - which is fine - it's what I expect since I've gone 180 before Halloween. She did ask me one or two questions, but nothing unreasonable. She left and asked when and where my oldest's hockey game on Sunday was being played. Side note - she has been to exactly 2 out of 14 games for my son this year - yet she insists that she is putting the children first. She left and it was nice to see my younger two again... So she texts me later and asks if I'm ok that she'll stay at the house on Monday night (I'm there and I have a flight super early on Tuesday). I reply "whatever you prefer - please stop worrying about what I'm thinking".  "I just didn't want you to be uncomfortable"... she says.

  It seems as though she was concerned about how you were feeling and asked if it was ok instead of just assuming it would be ok for her to stay there with you.  I would suggest just responding back next time what you want, aka yes, it's fine for you to stay or no it isn't.  You have indicated that you have set boundaries with her and it seems as though she is trying to respect your opinion.  I would also suggest to not say "Please stop worrying about what I'm thinking."  Instead, say "Thank you for asking."  This shows that you are recognize that she is respecting your space and needs.

So then she starts outlining a bunch of plans for Christmas, as if we were sitting at the dining room table going over it. So, I start doing what I shouldn't. I don't what what I'm supposed to do or not do, I say. I also ask "what makes you think I'm uncomfortable around you?". "Because you can barely say hello or be in the same room with me."

She's projecting her own feelings at you, based on your description of how she was acting when you walked into the house.  Suggestion for next time?  When you walk into the house, just give her a breezy, happy hello and move on to what you need to do.  My H would do that sometimes, come into the room with an sullen attitude and not say anything.  Instead of ignoring him when he ignored me, I would say a quick, light hello and then go about my business.  It let me get my stuff done, it showed my H that I wasn't bothered by what he was upset about and that I was going to go about my day. 

I point out that it doesn't mean I'm uncomfortable, I'm choosing to to not spend time with you because of the choice you made. Well it got worse from there. She spewed, a lot, and insisted that because I "neglected" her, she was justified in doing what she did and what she's doing... Typical MLC logic. I pointed out that I never intended to hurt her, that I was unaware how unhappy she was (just as her friends, our friends and her family were unaware) and she said that by saying I didn't intend it, I was saying I did no wrong.

When monstering comes up, best thing to do is listen.  It's hard to do so, but it's so important.  I know she has hurt you... but this is a good time for you to listen because she is bringing up those things that have hurt her in the past.  Acknowledge and accept the items that you contributed to and let the others go that aren't you.  She is going to say a lot of things because she feels that you are the cause of everything that is causing her to feel the way she is feeling.  After all, the LBS is the cause of everything the MLC is going through!  

However, she is going to also drop some truth items into this as well... those are the ones that sting.  If you want to work on them, then do so... or don't.  It's your choice.   I'd say that you already identified one of them when you introduced yourself, which was her saying that you didn't do things around the house for her.  This sounds like Acts of Service is her Love Language... May want to check out the book Love Languages (LL) as it may give you some insight into you and herself.  While she is in MLC, it doesn't help you as much, but it will help you understand what her LL is and what yours is as well.  Why is that important?  Because you may be able to understand why when you thought you were showing her how much you love her, why she doesn't feel like you were.  Not blaming anyone here... when I read the book though, I really got a LOT of things about my H that I didn't understand about him before and it helped me get him better.

In this scenario I'm supposed to answer "I'm sorry you feel that way..." but I didn't, not even close. Engaged with the spew and got blame and piss and vinegar. The fact I never meant to hurt her is apparently supposed to make it all better. Don't recall saying that, but MLCers manage to twist everything around don't they? She's started to call her "facade" of pretending that everything was fine "complacency". So that her deceiving me by pretending everything was fine and then ultimately betraying our marriage with the affair was just "complacency". Yet she insists that she is acknowledging what she did to me, our kids, her family.

It's hard to do the "I'm sorry you feel that way..." when they are saying things like they do.  When my H would spew at me, all I wanted to do was react/fight back.  The hardest thing I ever did... and do now... is just sit there and listen.  I had to chant in my head "Listen listen listen" every time I wanted to open my mouth.  The thing is, once I actually just sat there and listened... the monstering started to get less.  H realized that I wasn't going to respond when he monstered at me... that I was going to listen... so H just stopped doing that with me.  That was when I started to actually get more information about what was going on in his head. 

From me personally... I was complacent in my R.  Things were going bad and I didn't do anything about it... I didn't know how to do anything about it.  I also was a people pleaser, tried to make everyone happy... and for me, I just buried my feelings inside about everything because I thought that I would make my H happy by not arguing with him, by accepting what he had to say no matter what.  I didn't want him to get angry about anything, I just wanted him to be happy and I figured as long as he was happy that was enough for me to be happy. 

The thing is, by making that choice, I was complacent.  I figured that everything was ok and it appeared to be that way... but I didn't understand the signs showing that things weren't right.  I got so buried into my own funk that when I lashed out at my H and SD about 3 years ago, I didn't realize how dead I had gotten inside.  I almost lost my marriage at that point, but H and I worked through it and again, I thought everything was ok.  I started to change how I was thinking about things and getting help... but it wasn't enough.  And my H started to slide down his own journey into MLC and it took BD for me to really make the changes I needed to make.  Until recently, I didn't understand just how dead I was and how much of an impact that it has had on him. 

I'm not trying to excuse her behavior... just wanted to give you a different perspective on it.

She also insisted that the OM, who is now essentially her best friend, they text all day every day, yet he is "just a friend". I mentioned that as an ex-lover, he could never be just a friend. She didn't respond to that...

Yeah, I'm still dealing with MOW2 as "just a friend" texting relationship.  The texting has declined over time... just know that logic right now doesn't work with MLCers and she just sees the OM as an escape.  Unfortunately, there isn't really anything you can do about OM, your W has to work this out on her own and make the choice to let him go.  Best thing to do is set boundaries that you can enforce about OM, such as no texting him around the children or me, etc.  Then leave the room or ask her to leave when she breaks the boundary.  If you tell her to have no contact with him, then you will just make her be more secretive about it and it will be more fun for her.  Remember that she's trying to feel SOMETHING inside.

Our discussion also moved into expectations. She tried to tell me that she was living up to my expectations. More guilting. Her expectations of herself have always been higher than mine, her parents, her friends... Its probably one of the key drivers in her crisis. I pointed this out, which she claimed was finding fault and laying blame on her... Well if they shoe fits... She has spent so much time comparing herself and our family to others. "most of our friends houses were cleaner". I pointed out that just wasn't true. She was setting her expectations based on comparing to others instead of what made her and her family happy. She changed the subject... Wonder why?

Living up to your expectations... sounds like she may be projecting her feelings about her Dad onto her.  I wouldn't be surprised if you look at her parents that they had high expectations for her regarding something, either grades, job, raising her kids... or it may be that everything just had to be perfect around the house. 

So near the end of the text messages, she says "I just want us to be able to say hello and be in the same room together".

She's projecting her feelings about herself at you here.

I point out that I can be, but with the choices she made regarding my boundaries, I'm choosing not to do that. She tried to tell me that trying to sort out the planning for Monday night - whether she would stay at the house or the condo we've rented - was blurring the line on my boundaries... Seeing as she can't even see the line of the boundary, I guess she would have trouble understanding how it works.

Sounds like she is at least trying to understand your boundaries and respect them.  I would suggest to maybe revisit them and see if you can make them more clear and specific for her?

I pointed out that if she wants to be friends with the OM then she will just have to get used to not being friends with me. "I need to put me first. To find out who I truly am once I get through all the layers. And past all of the expectations. Mine or others..."  The words sound right, but who knows...

Just an observation here... I know it's hard, but being their friend in this situation is actually allowing for a soft landing.  When my H first started talking to me about MOW2 and the EA, he wanted to know why I was listening to him.  My response was that no matter what, I was his friend and that I cared about him.  Even though in my head I wanted to tell him that I loved him and he was my H and of course I thought he was freaking idiot for doing what he was doing.  Your W is in chaos right now and focusing on being the Lighthouse in her chaos can be very helpful.  It isn't easy... but if you do a "it's him or me", right now, she's going to go to him because she thinks that you are the cause of her problems.  Unfortunately, that's what is going through her head right now with MLC.  It doesn't mean that she doesn't love you or care about you... it's just that she can't care about anyone right now but herself, she's just so messed up in her head. 

Anyway, long post full of play by play... I'm spent and a little disappointed that I couldn't stay away from the R talk. She's so clearly still in the tunnel... I know I need to forget about it and do my work, but I was a moth to a flame on this one.

Time to refocus on the important things. Rant over... Thanks for listening.

We all go through it multiple times... it's hard to NOT respond when they go there.  At least she is trying to do something to respect your boundaries that you have set.  That's something positive to take out of it.  Plus, you realized that you could have handled it differently, that's important too.   It all takes time. 

[EmeraldDiamond]

Hi Stormchaser! I'm sorry the last few days didn't go as well as you wanted. I just read STL's  advice and it seems very good to me. I'll have to check out that LL book myself!

It's always tough in the beginning to get the hang of the new normal. Not being drawn in, standing firm, and so on. I had a rocky start myself but it does get easier.

I was trying so hard not to get drawn in, but my user name is StormChaser for a reason.

Perhaps you should change your username to StormObserver? I know it's not as catchy as Stormchaser but it makes an important distinction. You're keeping an eye on the storm but are not getting involved in it

Especially with an MLC tornado. It throws just about everything into the air. It's like dodging a constant hail of farm animals and telephone poles 

[KeepItTogether]

Hi StormChaser--sorry you find you here. But it's a great place to be under the circumstances. There is some great advice on here. I got some great nuggets reading through your thread.

Don't be too hard on yourself on the text arguments. That is my H and my normal MO. We have a S10 so we try not to "engage" in front of him which usually translates into not talking at all....and then I can't stand it so I burst.  We are getting better but I, like you, find it so hard to resist getting my "point" across. What I am slowly, and I mean slooooooooooooowly learning, is that there is no getting my point across verbally at this point. Remember MLC is about depression. And depression is selfish, so very selfish. So much so there almost seems to be a complete lack of empathy on their part.

My sister went through MLC a couple of years ago. We've been chatting about it. A lot of what your W says is exactly what my sister would say about her H when she was in the throws of MLC. Always amazes me that  they follow the script so closely.

Stay strong.

[UrsaMajor]

Hi StormChaser,

Especially with an MLC tornado. It throws just about everything into the air. It's like dodging a constant hail of farm animals and telephone poles 

Darn Emmy! That was the funniest comment I have read yet this morning - I am just glad I had already swallowed my tea...

STL has given some very good advice as has KiT. We did have a few incidents of "Texting while Wining" (no, NOT wHining but rather going back to "Friends don't let friends text while drinking")

But, in the beginning, we ALL make the same errors... that is why there is a list in the Survival Guide of things not to do ... so we can go down the list and check it off and can say ""Yep, Did that", "Oh, did that too." "Did it", "Did that one in spades".  etc. 

The point is to NOT beat yourself over the head with it... Doo doo occurs.. and it will again... If we could just flip the "perfect" switch, we'd be fine but, in stead, we are humans and we do stuff....

[StormChaser]

Thanks Emmy, UM and KiT!

UM - Don't worry about me being too hard on myself. I'm using the journaling to make sure that I recognize my own patterns and have a place to look back at where I've improved and where I can work harder. An example is that the fact that my W is a bit of a Disneyland parent can drive me nuts. I've realized that its such a small thing in the context of all that's going on, I'm able to totally detach from that and not even feel a need to respond or comment.

In fact, early on, before I knew what was going on, I made the mistake of wining too much with her - the R talks were epic - and non-productive! of course... So I've got that one licked for now.

Emmy - visions of Twister going through my head now thanks to that...

KiT - thanks for the insights. I find that texting is waaay less confrontational than talking with her, so at least there's that.

I know that I have my own journey just like she does, so this is just steps on the path right?

[StormChaser]

Hi STL,

Thank you for taking the time. I needed some time to absorb some of what you are saying and had a very busy week with work.

So here goes.

I found it fascinating that you found many of her comments as concern for me or supporting or respecting my opinion. It certainly doesn't feel that way, but more like cake eating. So I've been going with the assumption that although the words she is using make is seem like she is open and caring, it doesn't seem to feel like that at all...

It seems as though she was concerned about how you were feeling and asked if it was ok instead of just assuming it would be ok for her to stay there with you.  I would suggest just responding back next time what you want, aka yes, it's fine for you to stay or no it isn't.  You have indicated that you have set boundaries with her and it seems as though she is trying to respect your opinion.

I'm struggling with how she is respecting my opinion here. I honestly didn't care whether she stayed or not, although I was concerned that she would sleep in again (she has done that before) and she would be late in arriving at the house and I would potentially miss my flight.

She's projecting her own feelings at you, based on your description of how she was acting when you walked into the house. 

Actually, I didn't even see her for the first 20 minutes I was at the house as she literally avoided me.

I am usually quick and light in my discussion. I've never been a breezy, happy person, so to be that way now would not be true to myself and probably make her feel more uncomfortable. I am however civil and polite and for the most part, I don't ignore her, so I'm doing the best I can with my temperament.

I'd say that you already identified one of them when you introduced yourself, which was her saying that you didn't do things around the house for her.  This sounds like Acts of Service is her Love Language... May want to check out the book Love Languages (LL) as it may give you some insight into you and herself. 

Interesting that you brought up LL. Acts of Service is actually her second LL. Words of Affirmation is higher. Very familiar with this. I've tried to work on this as best I can. Since BD, I found out that when I try to work on words of affirmation, she feels that I'm being insincere, so it feels like I can't work on that at this point. As well, being a single dad half time now, I've been a rock star at keeping the house tidy and boys taken care of. Ironically, she has never talked my top three LL to me for the majority of our marriage... And she's the one that had the MLC!

The hardest thing I ever did... and do now... is just sit there and listen.  I had to chant in my head "Listen listen listen" every time I wanted to open my mouth.  The thing is, once I actually just sat there and listened... the monstering started to get less.   

This is great advice. I am trying and I will try harder. It has happened on occasion that I've listened. But still something that I need to work on - both in texting and real life discussions.

From me personally... I was complacent in my R.  Things were going bad and I didn't do anything about it... I didn't know how to do anything about it.  I also was a people pleaser, tried to make everyone happy... and for me, I just buried my feelings inside about everything because I thought that I would make my H happy by not arguing with him, by accepting what he had to say no matter what.  I didn't want him to get angry about anything, I just wanted him to be happy and I figured as long as he was happy that was enough for me to be happy. 

The thing is, by making that choice, I was complacent.  I figured that everything was ok and it appeared to be that way... but I didn't understand the signs showing that things weren't right.  I got so buried into my own funk that when I lashed out at my H and SD about 3 years ago, I didn't realize how dead I had gotten inside.  I almost lost my marriage at that point, but H and I worked through it and again, I thought everything was ok.  I started to change how I was thinking about things and getting help... but it wasn't enough.  And my H started to slide down his own journey into MLC and it took BD for me to really make the changes I needed to make.  Until recently, I didn't understand just how dead I was and how much of an impact that it has had on him. 

I'm not trying to excuse her behavior... just wanted to give you a different perspective on it.

Everything you said above is almost exactly what my wife has said or implied to me in some way shape or form of how she felt as she fell into MLC. As I may have said, she is a pleaser, and she buried her feelings as well. The difference is that you worked on the marriage, my W fell into an MLC!

Best thing to do is set boundaries that you can enforce about OM, such as no texting him around the children or me, etc.  Then leave the room or ask her to leave when she breaks the boundary.  If you tell her to have no contact with him, then you will just make her be more secretive about it and it will be more fun for her.  Remember that she's trying to feel SOMETHING inside.

The boundary that we not be friends as long as the OM is around is to protect me. I tried to just ignore it, but I felt so out of integrity and fake that I only lasted a couple days doing it. I know that the boundary should be something like what you say above, but we aren't actually loving together in our house. Our kids stay there and we cycle in and out. We have not been living together now for almost six months, so she can really do whatever she wants. There's no mystique or secrecy around it as she has made clear that continuing that relationship is more important than being friends with me... I'm ok with that, but then she continues to want to try and engage in friendly chit chat. I realize that I'm supposed to be kind to pave the way, but my feeling is that there is no basis for friendship when there is no respect, honesty or trust. She's not ready to work on any of that with me as she's still deep in the tunnel.

sounds like she may be projecting her feelings about her Dad onto her.

Exactly right, except her Mom's expectations not her Dad's.

Sounds like she is at least trying to understand your boundaries and respect them.  I would suggest to maybe revisit them and see if you can make them more clear and specific for her?

Just an observation here... I know it's hard, but being their friend in this situation is actually allowing for a soft landing.  When my H first started talking to me about MOW2 and the EA, he wanted to know why I was listening to him.

I've been pretty clear. She is trying to cake eat. It comes down to her wanting to have a relationship with me and continue to have a close friendship with the OM at the same time. I was willing to have a go at that after the original A. And we did have about three weeks where there was a lot of family together time, almost friendship, and I know that I started to have expectations because of it. Then when I found out inadvertently that she had restarted the friendship with him, I actually felt more betrayed than I did at BD. Here I was doing all the things that I hadn't been doing, and she went behind my back and restarted the relationship. I'm just not able to be sincere in a "friends" relationship with her while she maintains him as her closest friend. It's just possible for me, having tried a couple times, and that's why I have the boundary. It really feels like her saying that the boundary isn't clear is part of her being able to do what she wants. In fact, when she "broke up" with him at that point, I honestly empathized with her and consoled her. I had, after all, been through a bad breakup myself due to BD.

Overall, I found your responses very interesting as they were fairly sympathetic to my W. That isn't bad, but after I really started to find out how MLC worked, I truly believe that I was a little too sympathetic myself and she really did some aggressive cake eating. I'm needing to do a bit of a darker communication style to help me function in this scenario. Beyond this recent looooong R discussion by text, there has really only been communication about the kids for the last three weeks, and that's really helped me feel grounded and able to focus on GAL.

I have said in the past that I was her friend and I cared and knew she was on her own journey. But honestly, I'm pretty sure that 90% of what I have said and say to her just isn't heard because of MLC.

At least she is trying to do something to respect your boundaries that you have set.  That's something positive to take out of it.

I'm struggling with this statement as I don't see what she's doing as respecting my boundaries but rather testing the limits which seems more in line with how deep in the tunnel she seems to be... Yes she is pushing the boundary by "being too kind" but the reality is that it sometimes comes across as insincere or  self-serving for her rather than a simple act of kindness.

I'm not trying to dispute your wonderful feedback, just supply additional background about how I feel as we move through the process. Now I ned some sleep.

[Seeing The Light]

Hi SC,

I can understand why you feel that my responses are more sympathetic to your W and what you have shared about her regarding your interactions.  I did identify things in your interactions with each other that could give some indication of what she was feeling or thinking, basically giving you a different perspective of what was going on. 

The thing is, my responses are just that... my perspective on your story.  Only you and your W know what is going on with your R and how you feel about each other.  The great thing about this site is that when you journal how you are feeling or what you have been going through, it gives you a chance to get someone's observations on what's happening.  You may agree or not agree with the observations and that's ok.  I've found it helpful to get those observations because it forces me to think about my situation differently... and then take what I want or leave it.  That's the beautiful thing about choice.

What I have learned on my journey is to not read any intent in what my H was/is doing when he interacts with me.  I also learned to recognize the positive things that my H did/does and to show appreciation for them.  So, when your W asked you if it was ok if she stayed, I felt that this was a positive thing... because as we both know, MLCers do NOT have any consideration for us while they are in the tunnel.  The simple fact that she asked you this instead of just assuming it or doing whatever she wanted seems to be a positive thing.  Giving a simple answer and then thanking her shows her that you appreciate her consideration of your needs. 

This doesn't mean that you don't have your own concerns about if she will follow through... of course you do!  She's in the tunnel and they can't remember their commitments or what is going on daily.  Old Pilot has this as part of his new message to everyone... "Believe nothing your MLCer says and 50% of what they do."  So, you continue on with your plans as though she won't show up, and if she does, then that's great.  If she doesn't, you've already made your plans and taken care of things, so no problem.  That's also part of GALing. 

Regarding Cake eating... here's what I understand based on what I've been reading from RCR's articles.  Unfortunately, an affair is part of what happens with MLC.  My H had a PA with OW1 and an EA with MOW2.  PA with OW1 took place while I was deep in my own funk.  I wasn't having an affair myself... but I was dealing with a lot of my own issues during that time.  Was I working on my marriage?  No.  Not at all.  I was trying to climb out of the trench that I had dropped into and part of what snapped me out of it was that my H had threatened to end our M at that time.  This wasn't BD as was identified on here... he just couldn't deal with me being mentally absent from our R.  That's when I started to move forward... but I thought I was saving my R by doing so.  Thing was?  that was also the beginning of my H's MLC.  So as I started to move forward, he started moving into his own crisis.  Hence the affairs.

BD was simply the catalyst for me to get the real help that I needed and to get better.  Why am I mentioning this?  Because the affairs happen with MLC.  It doesn't mean that it's ok, it isn't at ALL.  It's a choice that they make.  Now, when my H indicated that things were going bad with his OW1 and MOW2, I did NOT console him.  I just listened, used the time to send truth darts as need be, and left him to deal with it.  Because I understood that he was going through MLC and that the affairs could/do happen, I could accept it.  I didn't like it, not one bit... but I accepted that it was happening.  Did it make me angry?  Absolutely.  Did I want to tell him to break it off?  Oh HECK yes. 

The MLCer is in chaos, constantly.  And the affair partner contributes to that.  So when we talk about being the lighthouse or being a soft landing, it's just about showing them that we are calm, we are happy, we are moving on with our lives while they deal with that chaos.  It makes us more attractive to them and they slowly start moving forward to us.  Soft landing or lighthouse just means being the calm in what's going on around them... which is where my being a friend to my H was so important.  It was hard... so very hard... to sit there and see him acting like a teenager with the OW... texting, talking to each other, etc.  But I knew that he would move through it and I just kept the thought of being the lighthouse in my mind.

That's what Standing meant to me.  Standing for me was to give me time to heal myself... it wasn't about working on my marriage, because the marriage, as it was, is dead.  Standing was working on myself to work on those things that my H said that stung.. that meant there was some truth to them so I need to work on them... or let them go as not mine to own.  I wanted to be healthy and happy for me, not for my R.  Because there is no guarantee that there will be a R in the end. 

Your W is not capable of working on your marriage right now, not with the chaos she has going on.  So, if you are Standing, which it sounds like you are for now... work on yourself.  Make yourself as healthy as you can be, that's really what Standing is for.  It isn't about your marriage, it is about you.  GALing is about getting out and doing things, finding those items about yourself that you didn't use to do... but it's also about taking care of your needs as well.

Ok, really long post, sorry about that.

[StormChaser]

Hi STL,

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer what i said.

Of course you are right that only we know what's going on in our own head and what our own perspective is on the R or M. And conversely, nobody, my W included, knows whats going on in her head!

I think the thing that's troubling me is that there are some things that my wife does that are definitely "on script" and there are others that I can't ignore and make me wonder. And the problem is that they aren't monstering or spew, but "nice" things that are definitely not on script.

An example, right now, at this moment, she has texted me about our upcoming custody schedule for our kids. There is one night in two weeks that I have a hockey game. She is out of town for work. She has asked about 5 different ways if I want her to fly back that night to watch the boys to go out. She works in the travel industry so the flights aren't a cost, but that's a lot of effort to do something that is just for me. It is what my W would have suggested pre-MLC.

So before this wouldn't be so strange, but one of the things she monstered to me about significantly was how much hockey I played and how she felt neglected because I put hockey before our R. She has spent the last 20 minutes asking in different ways if I would like her to help.

I've been assuming she's still deep in the tunnel, but this doesn't strike me as typical behaviour for that. Any guidance that you all can provide me on that would be helpful!

I also had the chance last night to spend the evening with some good friends of ours. A couple the same age who have kids that are the same age as my oldest two. We've done many things over the years together as couples and families. It was the first time I had a chance to spend any real time with them since BD. They hadn't had any details as they had only seen my W a couple times since BD as well - and she's not sharing much with anyone. So I gave them the highlights, without mentioning the OM and talked more about where I'm at instead of about her. I also spent some on thinking about how long W has been "in" MLC. I realized that she likely started to be depressed in or before Aug 2015...

She is coming over tomorrow to help put up xmas decorations at our house. She suggested I do it myself with the kids, but that wouldn't be right for them (and for me) so I've invited her to be part of it.

All that to say that I'm feeling ok - not cycling, but sure confused about what she's doing.

[OffRoad]

It definitely gets confusing. While mine lived at home he would bring me Slurpees, Jersey Mike sandwiches, rolled tacos, things he used to do before BD. I put no stock in any of it, but still thanked him profusely.

My take on the hockey thing? She made a big deal about how important hockey was to you. I see this as two possibilities:
1) If you take her up on the offer, it proves you are willing to put her out for hockey, and she has proven to herself she was right.
2) She knows you didn't really put hockey first and is trying to prove to herself that she is reasonable regarding your hocky playing.

As you can see, those are opposite ends of the spectrum, only my opinion, and it could be any other reason she has offered. You just can't know.

Those are just my thoughts. But if it were me, I'd get a sitter and go to your game. You deserve to play hockey. The kids deserve a content father. You deserve to have a night to yourself without over thinking why your W offered to help, or getting yourself in an MLCERS pickle because you might have been set up to fail by taking her up on the offer. Take the offer if it happens sometime when it isn't massively inconvenient for her. But thank her profusely for the offer. Simply take care of it, say how much you appreciate her offer, but that you have taken care of everything.

BTW, it is my opinion that most MLCers  had been heading for MLC long before BD arrived. We either didn't  recognize it, or thought we could "fix" it.

[StormChaser]

Hi Offroad

Thanks for the feedback.  The weirdest thing about it was how insistent W was to help. 

Anyway, W came over to help with decorating the house and tree today. It was like normal, just like before BD when it was good.

She was kind, warm and helpful.

We went to my S9's basketball game as a family and to the mall for pictures with Santa for the boys. We let the boys do some Xmas shopping as well. At one point, my oldest S11 says to me "it's nice to be out as a family isn't it?"  I shut him down a bit so he didn't get too "up". But later, when I put him to bed, I explained the difference between hope and expectations in a nice, patient way. He says to me "well mom said it was nice." 

At one point in the afternoon as well, my W says something about always waking up at 4am. Sounds familiar to what denjef and others have suggested.

The only weird part about the whole thing was when she left at the end of the night. Just because it had seemed so normal. So the job for me is to enjoy the fact that it was a nice day with positive feelings for me and the boys. Then to expect nothing, to believe nothing and to keep moving forward with my life and needs. Oh and to keep hoping because that's a good thing...

[StormChaser]

Journalling again...

So the weekend went very well considering that it was the first extended time we have spent together as a family since the start of September. I'm avoiding having any real discussion around her. I'm working really hard to not build any expectations off of that and to instead just keep on with my program of GAL and being the best me I can.

Our S6 is having some issues at school, so I had to go with her to the school today over noon hour. After the meeting, I had to swing by the house to pick up a few things and she is chatty - obviously misses having me as her "friend". I was polite, positive, but didn't get too into it because, I'm honestly a little gun shy, and she hasn't made any move towards remorse, whether its in what she says to me or her relationship/EA with the OM. I'm glad and proud that I didn't start any R talk and I didn't get sucked in.

Now, a week of my own. Well, almost my own - still have to watch the boys tomorrow night... but mostly my own haha!

[KeepItTogether]

Having those "normal" moments can sometimes create a little havoc. I tend to move right toward expectation when they happen, but learning not to read anything into them anymore. Nice dodge of the R talk Storm!

[Seeing The Light]

Hi SC, checking in!  I agree with OffRoad's advice.  Plan your outings as though she isn't there, cause after all, she isn't there.

Regarding the script vs nonscript things... I know that for me, when things happened that made me go "WTH just happened?" if I read the script, then I would understand what was going on.  Even your H being nice to you is part of the script... at least it seems that way to me.  It's along the "touch and go" piece.  She wants to make sure that you are still there, still around, so you get sweet loving person.  She peeks out of the fog briefly, then dives right back in again.  My H would do that.  His cycles would go on a weekly basis once I started looking at the pattern.  He would do something very nice for me or be loving to me and then for about 5 days stay away from any interaction with me... or as much as he could with him living in the same house. 

Gradually the amount of days that he would distance himself would decline until finally we started to reconnect.

I enjoyed the normal moments when they happened and then went on with my life when he went back into hiding.  They occasionally did cause me to be upset, like KIT says, but eventually, I just took them as they came.  It sounds like you are doing very well in handling those moments that happen, too. 

[StormChaser]

Thanks KiT and StL,

I think the one that really threw me was her telling S11 that she thought it was nice to be out as a family. Her doing things for me I can chalk up to guilt, but that was different.

And last night, after she got home from her night out with the school moms for yoga and drinks, I did let expectations make me a bit sad that it was just the usual "thanks see you later" and nothing more. But I'm going to refuse to make the first step to talk about R or anything else right now. I can see the things that Den talked about going on for her. She's not sleeping, she's looking at me differently, she's treating me differently. And I'm just doing my thing... She has to make a first step towards something more than this for me to actually believe its more than a touch and go and that she wants to reconnect. And, because we aren't still living together, I've got the space to manage the little bits of sadness that still intrude.

To be honest, I'm still a bit worried about the EA with the OM that I understand she maintains through online chat. I know its doomed (and she probably does too deep down - again thinking back to Den's insights) but I don't know if it has run its course yet. I know that as long as she maintains that R she's still in replay so I can't lose sight of that.

So all that said, I've strived to be that lighthouse. And I'm starting to feel better about myself, to feel that I'm moving forward and to be ok with myself and my place in all of this. I'm not letting my W get in the way of me being happy. After all, she's the one looking for happiness - I know what joy is for me...
 

[Tyks]

.  After all, she's the one looking for happiness - I know what joy is for me...

I like that . They wouldn't know happiness if it smashed them in the head !

[StormChaser]

So journalling... (with a couple questions mixed in)

Back to reality for me - at least the reality of MLC. After our nice weekend last weekend, and the bit of disappointment from my own expectations, I was at the other place for most of last week. Had some time to GAL and just hang out. I didn't have any really negative cycling or get down on myself and spent some time out and about. Played hockey a few times and just had a good week overall.

On Saturday, my S11 had hockey practice, so I picked him up and took him to practice, then we went to S9's basketball game and met everyone. After, we came back to the house as my W had to pick up a few things to do some xmas baking, so I watched the boys for the afternoon. She came back and I pulled her aside to talk with her. Over the last few days, I've had to do some deep thinking about the financial status of the company I run (it isn't pretty right now) and it has gotten to the point where I had to tell my W that there was a possibility that things might turn completely south. I could lose my car (lease is paid for by my company), my income and a lot of how I've self identified over the last 10 years. She said she would support me as I was her "partner" and that whatever we needed to do, we'd do.

As I left, she mentioned that I could come for breakfast on Sunday (the next morning) before S11's practice that day. I did come early for breakfast and it was nice to sit down as a family. I took S11 to practice and on the way home lost my temper with him for something that just wasn't that big a deal... The stress I'm suffering from made me over react to something he said and I was a big jerk. We get home and I ask my W what she meant that I was her "partner" - not looking for a discussion but an explanation. She explains how we are bound financially right now, we co-parent so we are partners, and she doesn't know yet emotionally or physically how it will work out in the end.

The place we rent has had an issue with the heating and it was supposed to be resolved late last week, but it wasn't. The temperature has been a steady 15 to 17 deg celsius (low 60s for my american friends) and although I can manage it, I suggested to my W that she stay another night at the house as she would not do nearly as well. She took me up on the offer. So the evening goes almost like any night before BD (not necessarily in a good way) with the same types of routine and the same feelings on my part. Like she was just going through the motions. She puts the kids to bed - even though its my night - its almost like she feels that she has to for some reason. As soon as she is "done" she goes and ignores me, sits by herself upstairs and thats it.

So, falling asleep last night, I was confused by her trying to be so nice during the day, around the kids or in public, but as soon as the day ends, she shuts me out like I'm not even there. That's the second or third time that its happened so its pretty clear...

Here's my theory.

She is going regularly to the IC and I'm sure its helping. She seems a little more self-confident, and happier overall. The last time I interacted with her about the R, she said the right things, but those were just words so don't know if she has internalized any of it...

When I talked with my MIL, she called it "floating". My W has things good enough so that she can manage - put her facade on that things are ok - and go along with life like that. But my W hasn't dealt with any of the issues around our R or her issues around the OM. She still maintains the EA. She says that she is undecided on our emotional and physical R - she's STILL IN THE AFFAIR!!!! Of course she hasn't hit rock bottom. She's still in replay. But now, she appears to be doing ok. However, she said she can't sleep. She doesn't like the weeks she's with the kids - its "too much". And I think the only reason she is being nice to me is out of guilt. But she hasn't actually dealt with anything! She doesn't seem anywhere near remorse. And if she keeps this up, she stays in the tunnel because it's comfortable enough that she doesn't have to leave. On top of that, I'm completely messing up having a boundary about her and I not being friends or friendly as long as she has the EA.

Ugh... I haven't been in this place yet. I'm frustrated. I'm worried that she's putting up enough of a facade that someone who doesn't know what's going on will say "oh she's fine!". I know that if she continues down this path and it leads to some kind of reconciliation, that it will be false - that the issues will still be there underneath.

Instead of worrying about my expectations, I'm worried that if I'm not careful and if I keep enabling her cake eating, I'm going to kill any chance I have in the future...

Any thoughts from you all?

[Seeing The Light]

I agree with you that she is still in replay.  Until she leaves replay, you won't see remorse, it's going to take a long time for her to get there. 

I don't know if you have read any of Denjef's Fog Story experiences, but it may give you some insight as to what is going on in her head right now.  It sounds like she might be moving a little bit down the path, but she's still cooking.

"Floating" is a good way to describe where she probably is right now... but I would almost describe it as floating in water where only your nose is above the surface.  The rest of her is underneath it. 

Continue to stay the course with your detachment.  You did a very nice thing for her by inviting her to stay in the house like you did.  I would suggest to not ask any questions about the relationship at this time, even though she is showing progress down the tunnel, she isn't going to be able to give you an answer right now.  With her being in that space, any relationship talk at all is going to make her withdraw.

You are correct in your assessment, she isn't ready for any kind of reconnection at this time.  Everything happens at the time it is supposed to happen... she has to cook at her own pace at this point.  That's the unfortunately thing about this journey, many times the LBS is light years ahead of the MLC in moving forward.  It does seem like she is moving in the right direction though if she isn't monstering at you and is becoming more pleasant.  Baby steps. 

[StormChaser]

Thanks STL! 

Seeing my IC on Friday. Looking forward to working through some of my feelings then. One of the things I feel is that with the holidays and trying to protect the kids and create "family time" I'm enabling her to cake eat, but I don't see any other way to do this.

I've committed to spending time with her and the kids over the holidays, so I will work extra hard on balancing hope against no expectations. As well, I will try and focus on the positives of her behaviour that STL pointed out instead of stressing about the fact she is still in the tunnel.

[Seeing The Light]

SC, hope things go well with your IC appointment, mine has been a life saver during all of this craziness. 

I believe you had mentioned some of the 180's you have done with her since she went MLC.  With the holidays coming up and your commitment to spend more time around her for the sake of the children, you may want to revisit the 180 list again to help you during that time.  It's recently popped back up for me as a reminder of things to do even though I seem to be reconnecting with my H.  It helps keep me focused on not being too much in his face, I guess you could say. 

Anyway, here's the link that has the list and the reminders.  I've read it a couple of times again this week, so apparently I need the refresher.

https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/

[StormChaser]

Thanks StL - that list is always a great reminder!

Journaling...

This last week went well. Was with the kids until last night. Saw the W very little since she went on her business trip last week - she only came back on Saturday. Unfortunately, my IC accidentally double booked me on Friday so I rescheduled to tomorrow. Did have a great chat with her on Tuesday bringing her up to speed and look forward to the discussion with her. The IC gives me little nuggets that seem to validate so much of what's talked about, but as my W hasn't agreed to share her counselling with me, the IC can't share as much as she would like.

I wonder if I'm actually, truly starting to detach. It's starting to feel a bit that way. I do want my wife back and I want the chance to start over and work through all the things that need working. But right now, I see her as half the person she was (and not the good half) and she's investing almost nothing in our relationship. But she is trying to have a relationship with me on her terms. I've realized I get to give what I want, not what she wants.

On Saturday, we went with the kids to a surprise 50th birthday party of a friend of ours. Her husband had arranged it and we have spent a lot of time with them over the years. Haven't seen them barely at all since BD. Also there was another couple that we spent lots of time with. Sat with the other husbands and had lots of laughs and fun while the wife sat with the other wives and kept to small talk. She was quiet, had an ok time, but I know that I felt much better than I thought I would. Will be really interesting as we are also supposed to be spending New Years' Eve there as well! I know in the recent past, one of those wives mentioned to me how little W opens up about what is going on...

Then, my son had a hockey game last night and after it was done, W suggested we go for dinner with the kids. I said sure - hadn't figured out dinner yet so seemed like a good idea. And while we sat there and the boys played with their various iDevices, she engaged in small talk - looking for praise in that her boss said something nice - and was generally pleasant. I smiled, nodded and agreed where relevant. But didn't engage her in any discussion, didn't bring up R... Just worked the 180. Felt great after and really feel like I'm living with no regrets right now.

In fact, my W is sleeping terribly and her memory is getting worse. All the things that DenJef talked about are going on in full force. My appetite is back so I've put on most of the weight lost by the LBS diet (unfortunately!) and I'm feeling quite positive about certain things. Sleeping well.

But I miss the companionship. That's the hardest thing right now. I miss my friend. And although my W is trying to get that from me, I know that I can't go there right now.

I think by the standards of many of the MLCers that I've read about, my W is a pretty mild case. She's on script for so much and she is still in replay, but she has stopped monstering. I'm sure part of that is the IC and part of that is that we've both stopped initiating discussion of the R. If my guess of timing is right, she started about a year and a half ago, and has been in replay for about a year now...

Someone asked me if I'm ok with all the time I have to spend with the W over the holidays, and I realized that it'll be fine. I'm in a good spot and I can handle spending as much time with her as I have to. And the fact that I'm spending it with her for the kids and not for me makes it even easier. Let her head keep spinning. I'm doing just fine.

That's all for now...

[Seeing The Light]

Storm... YES YES YES!  You are absolutely starting to detach... I would actually say that you are more than starting to, you are very close to being there.  You are feeling good, you are ok in her company and you know that her spins are about her and not about you.  And I think that you have identified that point as well, when you said "I've realized I get to give what I want, not what she wants."  I'd say you are doing pretty well.

Regarding the companionship and missing your W in that way... I understand how you are feeling, I got to that point when I really started to emotionally detach and I was concerned.  I was concerned as to if I really actually loved my H anymore.  For me, what I thought was "being in love" was actually not a healthy love, I guess.  It was what I thought was healthy because of how I grew up.  I only had my mom and dad as examples, and he was an alcoholic and my mom was extreme co-dependent/narcissistic.  So all I saw from them was loving someone the wrong way.

Anyway, after I started to get better myself and detached from my H, I got concerned about my feelings (or what felt like the lack of them).  My IC suggested that I do guided meditations through www.meditationoasis.com to help me work on being present moment aware.  The podcasts are free to listen to. 

One of the ones that I listened to during this time was on "Loneliness".  I was lonely and I wasn't really sure where my feelings were regarding my H.  This blogpost from Mary Maddox (she guides you through the meditations) gave me some clarity on my feelings.  It did help me know that I really do love my H, but that my love for him and wanting that companionship had changed.  I was in a more healthy place now, to know that my needs and wants were as important as his. 

Loneliness can be a doorway to connection. Contained within the feelings of loneliness is our capacity for connection. Our podcast meditation - Guided Meditation for Loneliness - encourages you to go deep into the feelings of loneliness to connect with yourself and ultimately with others. So often we resist emotions that we feel are threatening or unpleasant. Most of us don't want to feel pain, but resisting our feelings alienates us from ourselves. This is especially true with loneliness. When we are lonely, we may feel deeply sad or have a strong sense of yearning. We might feel anxious, especially if we feel that there is something wrong with us for feeling they way we do. And yet going into the very heart of loneliness, experiencing it all the way, allows us to feel the most important connection of all -- the connection to ourselves.

Remember -- loneliness is a normal human feeling. It's a result of your natural capacity and desire for connection.

You are doing very well and I'm happy for you! 

[StormChaser]

Thanks STL, I've got to try and find some time to go through those resources. Too much GAL haha!

Had a good session with the IC on Tuesday. Spent a lot of time talking about how I feel about W and the current state. The IC reflected that my W needs to work on introspection and that is one of my W's challenges in moving forward. Overall, good visit - allowed me to validate how I'm feeling - reasonably detached and motivated by the right things right now. Another thing the IC asked about was if my W and I ever had discussions where W asked me how I felt. I realized that she almost never did ask how I feel, but always *assumed* she knew. I see now that this allowed her to build her MLC lalaland very efficiently because without asking how I feel it made it very easy to project her own frustration and alienation on me.

I haven't found the loneliness crippling yet, just a niggling feeling that I know is there. I still have such a good support group that I know I can always reach out to a couple different people. And journaling here is a great help as well.

With my new found level of detachment, I'm actually looking forward to spending the holidays as a family because I know the kids will like it. Not sure how the W feels about the time together, but I know right now its kind of fun for me because I feel empowered when we are all together. I'm not dealing with the depression, the guilt or hopefully one of these days, the remorse that she is. I'm being the best dad I can be, I'm maintaining relationships, keeping busy (eating too much ) and that's probably good enough for me right now!

Went out last night for wings and drinks with one friend of mine who is struggling with his own M. FWIW they aren't in MLC, either of them, but just good old fashioned marriage trouble. When we were leaving, he asked how long I would stick around waiting. I've recently realized that I owe it to my kids and to myself to see this through and stand as long as I can - our M wasn't perfect - no one's is - but it was good. What example can I set to my kids through this experience? How can I grow as a person and be the lighthouse for my W or take the lessons learned forward for someone else if it doesn't work out?

One way you could define love is practicing kindness with grace... so that's what I'm trying to do. If at the end of this MLC journey, our M doesn't work, I'll be stronger anyway.

Hope everyone has a great holiday.

[Seeing The Light]

Storm, you sound like you are doing really well!  I'm so happy to see how you are feeling about going into the holidays, you sound like you have the right mindset.  Enjoy yourself!

[Thunder]

You're doing good, SC.  Keep it going.   

I just want to remind you most of them think they can be our friend, but I don't believe that is possible when their in this state.

There is a difference between being friendly and actually being a friend.
A friend cares about you, asks you how you are and has your back.

MLCer's can't do that.

[KeepItTogether]

There is a difference between being friendly and actually being a friend.
A friend cares about you, asks you how you are and has your back.

MLCer's can't do that.

No they really can't do much of anything right now can they? 

SC--you are doing so great. I really like what you said about setting an example for your kids. That is generally what keeps me going on the right path as well--almost makes it easier when you have to focus on your children's well-being. Well, for me anyway. I'm hoping some of your detachment vibe rubs off on me!

[StormChaser]

Thank you all. Do feel really good. We will see how I feel after 4 days with the W

[StormChaser]

So, I have a good news post... Not sure how that works because its so rare any of us gets truly good news.

My wife decided to rekindle our physical relationship. It would seem that she decided that the ILYBINILWY situation wasn't the case any longer. On BD, and during some of her worst monstering, she made it very clear that she wasn't attracted to me, felt our sex life had been substandard for a long time, that I wasn't "the one" for her. We had one drunken encounter after bomb drop that made her even more mad at me and basically hadn't barely touched each other since September.

So, it was surprising, sudden, quite nice and made me feel like a million bucks. I know that the 180 made her come around on that.

However, there's still some question in my mind whether she's at the end of the tunnel peeking out or something else. I just don't know what I'm looking for here. Any feedback on this specifically would be appreciated...

She's made a huge effort to work with me to be a family over the holidays. We've spent from the 23rd to today together as a family, at the house or at her brother's cabin. We've kept the R talk to a minimum but she's shared that she is still quite confused. Still barely sleeps. Noticed a significant change in appetite over the time period. She was supposed to go back to our shared rental yesterday, and as far as I know, she's staying at the house with me and the kids until at least New Year's.

I was talking with a friend of mine who went through MLC with her husband (both of them at the same time) and they made it through it. She said that before they "ended the silliness" they had built such a wall that when they started again, it took a long time to take the walls down. And that some things are still triggers, years later...

So, I'm obviously ecstatic that one of my W's absolutes is not the case any longer. I'm terrified that I'm going to mess up somehow... Despite the fact I know that her journey is her journey. I'm trying to take hour by hour and day by day and enjoy the moment and continue to be the lighthouse.

More to come I'm sure...

[StormChaser]

Journaling...

Well, we've been living 'together' again since Dec 23. The longest we'd been together since BD before that was two days. For the most part, W has been sleeping in the basement.

Trying to avoid asking about the "future" and not pressuring her. I do ask little questions that are pushing forward a bit. We are renting a 1 bedroom right now that is empty, so I ask about that. There's christmas decorations there - I ask who's going to take them down. But trying to keep it light and not push. She did say today that it was "too bad" the lease didn't end in December...

She clearly wants to be with the family and isn't pushing back against that. She has also made it clear that she is "working through things" but she isn't running away from anything. She's still having lots of trouble sleeping but has been very present.

I'm trying not to be too optimistic and to just support her on her journey. I'm also working on being the lighthouse I've been throughout this and being mindful of the growth I've had. We had a bit of crossed wires the other day when she made a "joke" about how I walked by her without taking some laundry downstairs and made the statement "the more things change the more they stay the same" which of course took me back to many of the things she said while monstering. We talked it out and I think she realized the effect some of her words can have on me. No argument or harsh words. Progress I think.

Not sure where things are headed but she's home and seemingly working on being part of the family. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

[Shocked]

Hi SC! Happy New Year!!! I feel like jumping up and down saying whoa SC slow down!!! You are only 6 months into MLC. If your W is only in ML transition it may be possible but if it is Crisis you are going to get your heartbroken again.  Her being nostalgic over the holidays makes it easier on her. No dealing with her issues. Just putting her old life on like old slippers. Keep up with your 180s but also with your detachment. Please don't risk your heart again!!!! Hugs!🤗

[EmeraldDiamond]

Happy New year, Stormchaser! I'm still following along. Sounds like you've made great progress on yourself and detaching.

Ugh.. Christmas decorations. I'm not looking forward to taking them down

I would also be wary about your wife's recent interest. She may retreat again especially if she's MLC and not transition. Keep strong, keep detaching, keep going... but with two eyes open

Emmy

[StormChaser]

Thank Emmy and Shocked,

Thank you both for the concern - appreciate it sincerely! Both eyes are wide open for sure. Based on what I've read, it feels like an initial reconnection, but jury is still out on where she is. She's made it clear to me that she still has "figure out what makes her happy" and hasn't made any decisions either way.

Had a pretty long discussion about where things are at tonight, initiated by her. Touched on where our M is at and how it got there. She mentioned our lack of "passion" - easy for her to feel that way comparing us to her PA - I did point that out. Questions around our lack of connection and how little it seemed that we did together over the last little while.

Also talked about how nice it was to be parents instead of co-parents. Talked through some alternatives to both be at home instead of using the rental. Definitely some concern on both our parts of expectations we are creating for the kids.

She didn't monster, and if she was being honest, agreed with some of what I said - most of it me suggesting that the blame was shared between us for the challenges we had pre-crisis. She was also able to say that our relationship pre-MLC was "easy and natural" which I paraphrased to comfortable. I agree with that, and also think that's one of the things that led me to complacency pre-MLC... I was also able to point out how her inability to communicate her feelings has created challenges for us. Not sure how much of that she internalized, but seemed to be open to it.

She's been in replay for over a year, even though BD was mid-year. The EA started last fall. PA ended at BD and EA was ongoing into the fall. She doesn't seem to be in touch with the OM regularly anymore - just not on her phone at all the same way - so the EA may have run its course. Unless I snoop on her phone, can't tell for sure but my desire to do that went away about two months ago. At an appropriate time, I'll ask her whether she's still in touch with him, but not right now.

So, if she's not a severe crisis, it's possible that she could be starting to come out of the fog. She has talked a lot about being confused - I hear some of the things I've read in Denjef's posts. She can't sleep, too much going on when she tries.

The reality is that she hasn't had a particularly tough life growing up - not any major unresolved issues or FOO issues - and our marriage although it wasn't perfect was reasonably good for both of us.

So, that all said, still lots of miles left on this journey, but honestly, this is the first positive development since BD. I'm just going to enjoy the small victory and see where life goes.

FWIW, my new year's resolutions are to practice patience and to live each day intentionally. With all of this going on, I should add "keeping it real" to the list as well.

[Seeing The Light]

HI SC!  Happy New Year to you!

I also had these types of conversations with H as we started to reconnect, especially about "lack of connection", intimacy, etc. 

One of the things that my IC said is that for men, intimacy is not just about the physical connection/contact, it's also about the emotional connection as well.  She said that with me withdrawing from H and not sharing things that were going on with me because I "wanted to make him happy" aka spare him from feeling any bad feelings, that I was withdrawing from him emotionally.  So he wasn't feeling a connection with me because all I was showing was blank.  I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.

My point being that while physical intimacy is very important, so is emotional intimacy.  That's what she was getting from the EA, the ability to share her thoughts/feelings with OM.  That is what was happening with my H's EA.  She "got him" because she listened to him about what was going on and shared all her BS about what was going on with her to him.  That created that connection and fed into his "Knight in Shining Armor" need he had during that time. 

From what I am seeing here, you are both starting to have conversations with each other that are important and that she seems to be listening to you.  I would also say that it is very important to show how you are listening to her, to question her gently about concerns about you that she brings up so that you can get more detail.  The questioning is not about putting her on the defensive, it's more about pinpointing the detail about what she means when she says something.  This will help you understand if she is projecting something at you or if it is really something that you may want to take a look at and own. 

Also, during this time, I still did a lot more listening than talking with my H.  He was still cycling and dealing with issues and one day he would be very affectionate and the next day would be standoffish.  So even though we were back in the same room, he was still dealing with a lot of his own internal issues. 

As he was working is way through them, we would have some sort of big R discussion about once a month always initiated by him.  And this is where his hurt, guilt, pain, etc would come up and I really had to listen.  The really hard one for me was when he started to use the same BD language again... and I got angry... but after I forced myself to stop and listen, that was when he revealed his deepest guilt to me and his pain. 

Patience is your friend right now.  Things are going well in deed and you are handling yourself very well!  Having no expectations during this time is really key as well... heck I remind myself of that daily even though my H and I seem to be reconnecting... it helps me to enjoy the time with him that much more.

[gman242]

STL, my W was blank as well. Believe it or not, the numbness is the most painful thing to endure. It's dehumanizing to an extent, it's just a denial of intimacy on all levels.

SC, that's great that's she's starting to fix the little things that she did and she's not running. Focus on the little things as good things come in small packages 

[EmeraldDiamond]

Hiya Stormchaser! I haven't heard from you for awhile. I hope things are progressing in a positive way for you. And if they're not or there are hiccups, we're always here for you

[StormChaser]

Hi Emmy,

Thanks for checking in. Things have been progressing, but have been super hectic. I've had the reply window open about a half dozen times but haven't been able to get to it before crashing at the end of the day.

So, where do I start.

Right now, my W isn't home, but it's because she's travelling for work and for her annual birthday trip with her best friend. She gets back next week and has been gone since early last week. It's been strange going back to being single dad after a couple weeks of being a couple again.

So, over the last little while found out some things. W and I went to the neighbours a couple weekends ago and we both had too much to drink. My W passed out when we got home. I, on the other hand, got curious... So I did some digital sleuthing. Found out some new data and gave me what I needed to understand some of my W's motivations.

Turns out that not long before she "came back" to me, she was trying to have a "chat" with OM. Based on where things are at, I'm assuming the chat didn't turn out the way she hoped. So, it looks like I'm her rebound after OM didn't want to have a R with her after all.

Then, on New Year's, she had messaged OM, and he didn't respond. Hit her hard. So a couple days later, when her and I had a miscommunication, she monstered on me about being "rejected". At the time I didn't know it was projection, but I do now.

Then the weekend after New Year's, we were out with another couple and she got a little snippy with me. I totally forgot everything I had learned and spewed right back. Was a pretty ugly night. Ended up with me going and staying at our rental. Two bright spots out it though. The husband in the other couple gave her a truth javelin in saying that if he was her husband, he would have been gone months and months ago... The other bright spot was the next day, I did come back to the house and apologized for my behaviour. That night, she came and slept upstairs. A couple days later, I asked her why - she said it felt "comfortable". She's been back in our bed with me since...

So, her actions all say that she's back for now. Her words make it clear that she feels like she has lots of work to do. I know she's probably still in the tunnel, and I'm not sure if her reconnections are poking her head out or something else.

I'm doing pretty good at keeping my expectations in check and not over committing. It feels strange when I have to keep other's expectations in check (like my MIL) as they don't know how the tunnel works.

Just trying to live in the moment and enjoy the good parts. Haven't cycled much so I'm pretty happy about that. Looking forward to seeing my IC next week. Curious about her thoughts on all of this...

For now, just going to keep working on grace and trying to be the lighthouse. So far, so good.

[Seeing The Light]

Hi SC!

It's good to hear from you again and see the progress you are making on yourself.  I also learned that my H initially started to reconnect with me after he heard something he didn't like from MOW2.  It's interesting how rejection from the affair partner seems to kick them back to us.  I don't know for me if I would call it rebound though, it's like my H realized in his fog that I'm there for him, that I am the strong stable person/friend that he wanted to be with.  Why yes, the lighthouse!

[EmeraldDiamond]

Hi Stormchaser! Thanks for checking back in. I know what you mean about hectic. I often start replies to threads here and never finish.

Good for you for keeping your eyes open and taking what she does/says with a grain of salt. We all have slip ups to old ways, it's what we do afterwards that matters. Sounds like you're doing a good job of recognizing it  and making amends when necessary

[No expectations]

Attaching

[StormChaser]

Thanks everyone.

STL, quick question for you - how has your husband talked about "his work" or what he still feels he has to work on. Has he had any episodes of true remorse showing either in actions or words? Lastly, how has he addressed the future or the R? Has he talked about it at all?

 I don't know for me if I would call it rebound though, it's like my H realized in his fog that I'm there for him, that I am the strong stable person/friend that he wanted to be with.  Why yes, the lighthouse!

I guess I'm feeling a bit like a rebound because it seems like she really bounced right back to me when she finally seemed to give up on the OM (still to be verified though). And there didn't seem to be much of a delay between it. And she's been so insistent that she's back, but doesn't know what the future holds. So she's almost kind of cake eating...

As my W has been away for almost a week now, its been good to see where I'm at with certain things. I'm finding I don't cycle as much now as I have in the past few months. I have felt a bit of resentment and that's bugging me. She had a couple work trips and went on a side trip to London England with her best friend in between so she's gone for 9 days. I've had a strong feeling of being left out as those trips were historically with me - one of our key ways to bond over the years. This one with her best friend and the previous two special trips were with OM. So trying to manage the feelings around that and hopes of future and memories of past all making me feel a bit blue.

It'll pass, but I wanted to journal that.

[gman242]

I think I've been several rebounds actually.. I'm jealous that at least your wife gives you direct input, even though you don't trust it.

My wife bounced between super wife, having the shakes and bringing me coffee in the morning one day.. I can only guess as to what was going on. I'd love to be screamed at, told she's going to work it out with me, just once.. lol.

Anyway, I just wanted to stop by and show you some support and let you know that I've appreciated yours immensely!

[Seeing The Light]

STL, quick question for you - how has your husband talked about "his work" or what he still feels he has to work on. Has he had any episodes of true remorse showing either in actions or words? Lastly, how has he addressed the future or the R? Has he talked about it at all?

Hi SC!

My H doesn't talk about the "work" that he is doing on himself.  I don't know if he would recognize it as such.  What I am seeing is the lessons he is learning by God's hand, for lack of a better description.  We are both believers in things happening for a reason, that we are being guided on our journeys but are not religious, just spiritual.  So as I learned to recognize my lessons for what they were, I can also see the lessons he is being taught himself.

When my H approached me to "get back together", it was COMPLETELY out of the blue, similar to how you described.  I had not expected him to approach me at all that way, although his attitude to me had softened, he was still all over the place.  He did recognize that we had a lot of work to do, etc. 

He would still fluctuate back and forth on his moods, but I was better able to manage myself and how he was acting because of my own mirror work.  Plus I had learned enough on here to know that this was to be expected.

As far as true remorse, I haven't seen that yet and I don't know if I will get that verbally from him.  And at this point, I don't expect it from him either because I found that this was something I was holding on to and "expecting" from him, which was making me feel disappointed.  I'm looking more at the changes in his behavior, how he treats me, how he shows that he cares for me... to me, that's more telling.

Things that I'm noticing from him that he wasn't doing back when we first started to reconnect... he tells me who is calling, who is texting.  He shares conversations with me.  He tells me that he wants to hear from me during the day.  He smiles when he sees me... this list could go on and on and on.

My H is still working through his issues slowly... but what I am seeing is he is working through them.  I think that what has helped me with this is that I'm continuing to work on ME and my triggers and staying present moment focused.  I've found that when I start focusing on the future, of what COULD happen, that I get easily frustrated when it doesn't happen the way that I expect.  My H has to do his work, but it's at his own time and pace.  So I continue to work on recognizing the positive changes that he has made in himself and showing gratitude for what he  does. 

At first, when he came back, ANY mention of the future would get him all "oh I don't know about that, we are still working through things, i can't look that far ahead" etc.  And I would get frustrated and wrapped up in that "why can't you commit!!" feeling.  And anytime someone mentioned something to him about the future, I would want to tell them to shut the heck up because I could see him fidgeting.  So I finally just said Firetruck It, I'm going to let go of this.  I'm the one that's standing, dang it... so that means he's got to work on his own stuff and get through it.  And I left him alone about it... because I found that if I did bring up those sorts of things about the future, that it put PRESSURE on him.  So while he may be getting that from other people and himself, he isn't getting it from me.

We are finally at a point where H is more active in his decisions about the future.  He's talking more long term.  His comments are around "I want us to spend more time doing this thing this year" and us "having more fun this Year".  Notice the "This Year" statements.  At the end of last year, I was lucky if I got a "next month" commitment. 

All of this has moved slowly forward over the last 6 months.  And yet, MOW2 is back in our lives again as of this week... but it's tied to a job opportunity at this point and his interactions with her are more open with me.  He's talking to me more about her and he's also setting boundaries with her and enforcing them.  So I'm seeing progress on that side. 

My point being here that for me, I found that when I had expectations about what SHOULD happen, that this is what got me frustrated the most.  When I let got of it, stayed present moment aware and recognized for myself the positive steps he is making, then I was able to let go of the frustration and be content with the progress he's making.

It takes a LOT of time... and they have to do their own work and they don't work as fast as we do, unfortunately.  But I think that the mirror work that we do on ourselves lets us develop empathy for them, and compassion, and some understanding of what they are going through.  Think of it this way... we are making the choice to do our mirror work, so we feel in control of what we are going through even though it can be painful for us.  For them, they are really being forced to work through it... and while they have a choice, they fight it kicking and screaming, hence the MLC.

Ok, long answer to a short question.

[gman242]

I really agree with everything you've said! And I always appreciate your input, not matter whom you're directing it to!

I need to get better at not feeling pressured myself.. Maybe my situation is unique, but my W can really flirt sometimes. It's innocent, but she can really get her hooks into me and I feel pressure like you said.. I want to know why she can't commit then!?!?

Maybe it's not so different, on the whole. Just her directness makes it that much harder, even though it's just one aspect of her cycling towards positivity and closeness. Like yesterday she said she was on a call at work. She came back a second later and said I didn't want you to think you made me upset or something cause I disappeared.  She was showing concern and empathy and that's something old W would not have done..

Ugh, but the teasing, it just makes it harder for me I guess.. I'm doing really good though, I just need to cut myself some slack and that is something I'm bad at.

[Seeing The Light]

gman, thank you.

I will tell you that I also felt that way at first... everytime H would peak out and be the loving person that I know of, that would show his concern for me, then I would get all excited and push forward.  And WHAM... he felt the pressure, starting panicking and pulling back.  That's when I learned a very important lesson patience and letting him show ME what he wants from me. 

That may sound like I was being a doormat, but I wasn't.  I was fully aware of what was happening and I had my own boundaries and if I didn't want to do something then I would tell him so.  And I would be gentle but firm about it.  I found that during the first initial months of reconnection that H was still cycling and it was harder to deal with because he was "back".  But the reason it was harder was because of MY expectations.  Once I went back to "No Expectations", just focus on me and continue to enjoy what my H can give me, it got much much easier.

And trust me, your lessons in patience right now will pay off in the long run.  You learn to really let go of things that are just out of your control and have gratitude for those little moments... the ones we sometimes loose track of because we have been married for so long.

And yes, give yourself a break.  Stop being so hard on yourself.  Read the Four Agreements and apply them to your life.  Because all you are doing when you say "Need to" or "should do" is judging yourself.  Break the "being my own worst critic" mantra.  You can only do the best that you can during the moment as it happens.  If it didn't go the way you wanted it, that's ok, next time will be different.  

gman, you have been doing so well, give yourself that credit and be proud of the work you have done on yourself.  It shows in the progress you have been making.  Enjoy that progress... at some moment, you will realize that you feel content and that, my friends, is the moment when you realize that your mirror work is paying off, that you are truly enjoying life and you can take what it gives to you.

[StormChaser]

Just checking in here...

Not much new or different. W is still home. Still back. It's so very clear that she is "off". Whether that's her peeking out of the tunnel or what exactly, I don't know yet. There are moments when her confusion about life in general is very clear. But she's clearly making an effort to be part of the family and at the very least "act" like my wife.

She's starting to sleep through the night now, but complains of "tossing & turning". That's a big change from before the holidays where she said she wasn't falling asleep for hours.

I've also extended a new boundary of drinking less. She was definitely drinking too much during and after the holidays. I've asked her to dial that down. This is a discussion that we've had periodically over the life of our relationship. It's not particularly contentious but has needed to be brought up on occasion.

STL, thanks for answering that question. I have a feeling that I may see the same non-answer answer. That she may not expressly say anything remorseful, but fulfil it with actions over time.

My one deep down fear is that she is still enough in replay that she may drop another bomb on me. Or look outside our M again. I guess that's what happens when your trust is shattered completely. Obviously, only time will tell on that. Despite the fact she often leaves her phone available, I'm not sure if she's at the point where she would allow me to go through it...

My hope is that over the next few months, she does agree to some MC as I think that there are many things to be unlocked. However, I'm not sure if she's done enough of her own work to be ready for that yet.

All in all, I'm in a good place. Enjoying having her back in my life regularly and trying to continue to be my "best self".

[StormChaser]

Just a quick question.

Is it possible from someone to go from MLC to MLT?

Just based on some of the talk and behaviour of my W...

[Seeing The Light]

SC, I have no idea.  I was told that my H may be having a really bad MLT instead of an MLC because he seems to be moving so quickly through the tunnel.

My feeling is that as I started to put together the timeline, I realized that my H had probably been in crises for about 5 to 6 years based on some things he shared with me as we started reconnecting.  Since I was stuck in my own head, I wasn't aware of it... but looking back, I can SOOOO see the signs of it.  What I would term monstering behavior, the fact that OW1 was around for that long, dead eyes to me, etc.  A lot of that stuff was happening.

I do feel that my work for myself paved the way for him to move through the process and find that soft landing.  But we still had a LOT of things to work through after we started reconnecting... and at one point, it even looked like he was going to BD again.. using a lot of the same language, etc.  But he didn't, it was just part of the process he had to move through.  That's where I really learned how well I can listen, lol.  Validation is reallllly important as they start reconnecting because this is where the hurt about the relationship may come out more, at least that's what I saw from him. 

[StormChaser]

Wow. How is it possible that it has been almost two weeks since my last post?!?

So, things are overall pretty good. It's just amazing how being outside the MLC bubble allows you to look at your spouse and see things that you didn't before BD, and how you get a chance to reprogram how you react to things and just be a better person overall...

My W is still at home. Things have kind of moved on to a new limbo.

Her actions all indicate movement to reconciliation. I still try and avoid any R talk except for little truth darts here and there - and for the most part have passed that test.

Some interesting things that have happened over the last little while in no specific order:

The rental suite that we have had since one month after bomb drop has now sat empty for over a month. No mention of either of us going there... Actually grabbed some stuff to bring back home when I was there to make sure everything was ok. Be nice to have it off the family financial books!

I brought up the fact that I would feel more comfortable if she wore a ring on her wedding finger, not necessarily the one I gave her, just a ring. As she travels a lot, it would make me feel more comfortable. It seems like a big thing, but its something we have talked a lot about over the years. She always mentioned that she felt more secure traveling with it on. I don't think I'm super worried about another PA, but I do worry about her safety when she travels. So she said she would think about it.

She has taken a much more active role in our family future-facing financial planning over the last month. She has always been responsible for it in our marriage, but over the separation, it was more about just keeping bills paid rather than planning. As well, for the last 18 months or so, she has been spending a ton, as many MLCers do, and this is the first indication that she's 'fixing' some of the things she messed up on.

We went out last Saturday with a very large group. I arrived late, well after she did, according to plan, and was subsequently completely ignored by her. So I went and sat with the husbands and had a great time. After a couple hours, when I noticed that she was looking a little tired and probably a little drunk, I went over and asked her if she was ok - "just tired, let's go". So, despite just having ordered a plate of wings and a cider, powered through it all in quick order to get out quickly. Home and she's asleep immediately. I was pretty ticked off, so didn't fall asleep quickly at all. Stewed for awhile. Then, in the morning, had to get up super early for the dog. All of the kids were up, so stayed up. Made breakfast for everyone. Cleaned up after breakfast. Wife went back upstairs to lay down. Decided to read the riot act to W. Calmly and evenly told her what a complete cow she had been the night before. Mentioned that she would have been absolutely livid if I had treated her that way. Also said that we had issues in our marriage before. If she doesn't deal with her communication issues with me then she will continue to firetruck up relationships - ours or future other ones. Left it at that as I had to go to a coaching clinic at lunch time, then run around getting oldest S to his sports. Home at 8pm. Basically, still completely ignored by W. When I woke up this morning, I thought about it a lot because I was still pretty pissed. After a few minutes of real reflection, I realized that that she was cycling hard and that it was nothing more than that. I needed to get back to taking the high road and showing love in my actions. With no expectations, just with the intent to serve (which I've been doing really well). I know that she will bounce back but it was the first time we had gone out with a group that she acted that way so it kind of took me by surprise. Usually she is going out of her way to put on appearances that things are fine. This was the first real time I've seen her duck back in to the tunnel too. But when you know it can be understood and taken for what it is.

If I had given in to my emotions this morning I probably would have said something that I would regret, but I'll share it here so I get it out of my system. For someone who is self-admittedly suffering from issues around self esteem there is some fascinating MLC logic at play here. Instead of coming back emotionally to a place where there is a man who thinks the world of her, despite everything, she seems to still pine after the man who rejected her. Oh well, she is back in the house, so that is the small win.

We are about a year from the anniversary of the start of her PA. I'm internally stressed and I'm sure that may be where some of her current cycling is coming from.

We have talked at a very high level about taking a trip together, just the two of us. This is significant as it is one of the most important pieces of glue in our relationship. The fact that it is even being discussed is pretty interesting.

One of our boys has just been diagnosed with ADHD. We decided to put him on medication. Very surprising that we would be on the same page about doing it. Seems to be making a big difference for him. Still a little conflicted about it, but we'll go forward with it for now.

I'm still waiting for what I feel would be the next big milestone - MC. It feels close, and I know our counsellor wants it to happen, so we'll see. I'm not sure if that's an expectation or not so I'm not getting wrapped up in it - it just seems like the next logical step.

So until next time, I'll continue to try and be the lighthouse.

[StormChaser]

Oh and I dare you all to read through this news article and not just shake your head at what is so obviously MLC!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-edmonton-lawyer-shawn-beaver-one-of-albertas-top-legal-minds-lost-everything/article33992245/

[StormChaser]

Quick journaling moment...

First time for my W to be firmly back in the tunnel. She left first thing yesterday for a one day work trip.

She had a work trip. Left the house for the airport early in the morning, going for an overnight on Valentine's Day. Planned on leaving without even saying bye. Her leaving woke me up. Turns out she forgot her phone, so I came down to give it to her after she came back in.

"Oh sorry, didn't think to say bye." On. Valentine's. Oh. My.

She texted me a couple times yesterday about the kids, but not a single personal thing. And she likes to text a lot... She flew back this morning. Landed a couple hours ago. Not a word. Oh and I did text her last night a simple "how's your work event going?". Crickets...

Would give money to be a fly on the wall at her IC appt later this afternoon.

Oh yeah, and we're going up to the mountains as a family for two nights, leaving tonight... Can't wait to see how that goes!

The flip side is that I know what this is. I know how I feel, so I'm not cycling on my own.

The question I think have is do you just keep doing all the things you've been doing since she reconnected or do you do something different?

[gman242]

Just keep on keeping on.. I think that's about it. The one thing I will say is I just learned to wait out my cycling and I noticed you mentioned that you did it too in several places. That's the key.. you'll be back at the helm soon, so wait it out.

My wife is / was weird when we've been social and I agree, it is all a self esteem thing. She'd alternate between amazing, seductive super wife and she'd play coy with everyone and brag about us in some way or another.. Sitting sideways in the chair, drawing her legs up and hanging on my arm. She'd say things like "oh we always.. " "at our house we're.." "oh that reminds me of the time we.." or she'd do the complete opposite.. She'd lean in real far over the table and tune me out and focus on one person, usually a male and it's like they were on a date. ugh..

She's not doing it any more now that we're further along in re-connection. Not home yet though, but I got my first ILU in months! I was really surprised too, to find that she sits in the car now, when she's waiting to pick up S from scouts.. The first couple times, she went in and complained there was nobody for her to talk to. Now she deems them all weird and texts me from the car instead lol. I think that's what's in their heads.. everyone is a potential source of a pick me up. And then gradually, and hopefully, they just want you and they give up the socializing in that regard.

Anyway, glad to read your story and all the amateur advice I have is to wait it out, that's all you can do.

[KeepItTogether]

I think you are doing great Storm. And yes, keep on doing what you are doing. I think many LBSers try to get their "feelings" on the table at this point. But I am sure you know that she is still not there emotionally. It is all about her for now. And you are the good listener.

And hey, there may be the occasional truth dart/arrow/spear. But we are all human and frankly I think those are necessary every so often.

Keep up the great work.

[Seeing The Light]

Hi Storm,

The advice from gman and KIT is right on target.  I also had those same experiences... they get scared, step in the tunnel lip for a second and then step back out again.  I was thinking the other day about how weird holidays are right now during reconnection... it's like, I have no idea what to expect.  Should I get a gift or no?  How is he going to act?  It's just strange. 

Just keep moving forward on your own.  You are doing very well.

[StormChaser]

Hey you guys,

Thanks for the pep talk. Getting through this.

It's tough to manage this part because I've been dealing with unexpected little flashes of anger and frustration. I know that she's stepped back in to the tunnel a bit, I also know that she's taking steps forward...

So we did go away for the last couple days but we are home now. On the two hour drive up on Wednesday night she said barely a thing to me the whole drive. Could feel my anger rising and the "why is she being such a freaking cow!" feeling in me.

I finally had the time yesterday to go over some of RCRs sections on Liminality.

I suspect my W is "compartmentalized" and is processing. Its like shark eyes but a little different. She's still trying to be here and talking about things, but only if I ask, and if I leave her to her herself, she wanders off into the fog almost immediately.

So, I get what's going on, but it doesn't make it easier necessarily.

When I was in 180 it was easy. When she was reconnecting, it was easy. This on the other hand is damn hard! Its also a little harder to GAL in the current scenario. When you have one week on and one week off the family, that gift of time is huge. Back in the house, its back to just trying to get through the week. So so busy. And my W is still traveling a ton for work.

The flip side is that she is now wearing a ring on her left ring finger again. That's new since the start of the week. I did ask her to put one on and she did. It's not the ring I gave her, but at least she's got one on there now. The interesting part of the ring stuff that only came to me today was that she has been wearing a ring on her right hand, like she's got a boyfriend. I *just* realized that she was most likely wearing that ring for the OM - she started wearing a ring there during the summer while she carried her torch for him. But when she put the ring on her left hand this week, she took it off her right hand. I know this seems kinda "out there", but I also know how much the symbolism of rings means to my W. And I think her depression right now probably goes right back to grieving the OM.

See, my wife doesn't say a thing to me, so I have to make so many assumptions. That will be one of the boundaries or key issues to work through when we get to MC.

So, my plan of attack is to continue to take the high road. To continue to be the lighthouse. Show her that putting her faith back in me isn't a bad thing. Let her work through her grief and whatever else she's processing. Hope that this leads to MC, and realize that until she says that she wants to work at getting our marriage back, nothing is for sure. Hope with no expectations. Be the person, father and husband that I know I am.

I think its probably more a coincidence that she jumped back in to the tunnel before V-day, but it may have been a trigger. I did get her a gift as we were getting along so well until mid-week last week when she started to pull back.

 

[Seeing The Light]

SC, I think that is a really good plan. I found that as we started to reconnect that I spent a lot of time just stepping back and being, if that makes sense.  I had to let h show me what he's willing to give to me and just not push on things.  It sounds like that is your path as well.  Just keep your slow, steady work.

Oh and btw, don't be afraid about bringing out 180's, I still use them when I feel like I'm getting too close and are being pulled in, if that makes sense. It helps to give them space to process.

[StormChaser]

Thanks STL,

She's a little brighter over the last day - not completely closed - but not completely "back" either. At least not so quiet that she makes me feel like i'm bugging her by talking to her.

Can you give me some examples of how you used 180? I'm struggling a bit trying to figure that out...

[Seeing The Light]

Certainly!  I used some this weekend as a matter of fact.  What I try to do is balance things out by using his LL and the 180s. Since my h's LL is Touch and specific Acts of Service, I pay attention to what he's doing and when and adjust accordingly.

So, if he's focused on something and I can see he's frustrated or deep into it (processing) I'll not go into the room he's in or ask him if he needs help.  I go do chores or work in something else in another part of the house for an hour or so, then I'll cheerfully go check in on him to see if he needs my help with whatever he's working on. Before BD, I would hover around him all the time. Now, I pay more attention to things he's working on and go involve myself only if I'm interested in what he's doing or he invites me to sit with him. I continue to do the things that I want to get done GAL wise, but balance it with my understanding about his LL too.

I keep my focus on present moment and work hard on not wondering why he's irritated, upset or angry.  I know that if he's upset at me about something that he will tell me. We still argue, but it's quick because I listen to what he says and validate and stay as non reactive as I can, mainly because I know my own triggers now.  Most times when he is in pi$$y mode, it isn't about me, it's about something else. So I just leave him alone until he's ready to talk or he's processed through it.

Point being, I'm showing I'm confident and happy, but I'm also not going to hang around if he's in pouting, etc.  I keep focused on not getting sucked into it, and that's what the 180's help with. I just have to be careful because of what his LLs are... I don't want to neglect that because that's how he can feel that I love him.  You have to be careful about neglecting someone's LL, it can really hurt them if you withhold it from them, especially if Touch is there predominate one.

[Whyus]

Hey StormChaser,

interesting Thread. So many similarities with my W. All the "little things" I was (rightly) accused of could have been settled so easily.....
Im just about 6 weeks after BD. It happened because I realized something was wrong and asked if she loved me! She turned the light on and more or less said no..
The 6 weeks since have been hell.
My problem is that we live a a house together and share the same bed.
She wont have sex with me but lots of cuddles..... Theres no monster either but she will be straight with me.
We have had "serious" talks about a possible OM where ive examined her body language and eye contact and im quite sure that shes telling me the truth when she says that she just needs to be alone and has no interest or time for an OM.
I honestly couldnt see where she would find the time to be honest.
Ive even give her 2 opportunities (one was 4 hours and the other 6 Hours) which she surely would have spent with a lover if possible.
I tracked her car (easier than youd think) on both occasions and Nothing!...
We had a bad fight on Friday, our first in 21 Years and it seemed to clear the air. Shes been great since......  shes even said that shes really scared that when she eventually goes she will quickly realize that it was the wrong choice!
It gets more confusing everyday. You never know whats waiting for you when you get home. W is like a box of chocolates lol.

Your doing great, im having massive problems with detatching but hey, it can only get better right??

[StormChaser]

Hey Whyus,

Thanks forvtuning in. Sorry you are here.

At six weeks I had barely pulled my head out of my butt. Was just starting to get what the 180 was. Was terrified I would push her away more instead of pushing her forward.

But it was at that point that I turned toward detachment instead of trying to understand her logic. Of course there wasn't any logic. I wasn't truly detached until about 5 or 6 months in. I see a lot of what I was feeling early on in your thread.

Keep following what all the smart people here have said. Read DenJef's account of what it is like in the fog so you can understand how different they see everything. Be prepared for it to get worse before it gets better. If you don't have one think about getting your own IC.

What are some things that you haven't had time or energy to do over the last few years? More stuff around the house. Go out with your buddies? Sports? Find something else. I focused on my kids and my sports. You can't or won't convince her of anything. Her mind is already made up. Even if you don't accept it, pretend you accept it (180) and do your own thing! They notice that... but it also took 7 months before my wife started to think of me. And that is really really short.

Most of all, do the mirror work. Without grace and forgiveness I would guess I would be on a fast track to D right now. My anger was overpowering at times.

Read up on the 180. It is your friend!

[StormChaser]

Quick journal

Ugh!

My W is very definitely depressed, but also clearly is still carrying a torch for the OM.

She's been traveling for work a ton lately (and on some of the trips, she sees the OM) so it's tough on me as she disconnects when she's gone. Or sometimes even before she leaves... Whether or not she's out of the tunnel, I'm honestly not sure.

I'm pretty confident that he has totally cut off the EA as my wife has been trying to rekindle for months with no sign of reciprocation.

She does many things that are clearly to reconnect with me, but she's also putting so much distance between us at other times.

I'm feeling I'm mostly detached, but sometimes I still get mad at her, so I'm clearly not completely. I think its harder to stay detached when they come back and start reconnecting. They make you feel like maybe things will be alright, then they throw you back under the bus. Not in a BD kind of way, just in a throw a hand grenade at you when you're standing at a bus stop kind of way.

Ugh. Again.

Deep breaths. Be centered. Take the high road.

But where do I put boundaries now? I know I'm supposed to 180, but how do I?

Fun stuff this journey for all of us...

[gman242]

The mote time goes by, the better you get at it and thode pendulum swings just seem to get smaller and smaller. I dont know if it will ever stop moving completely though.

I think reconnection is harder.. For many reasons, but mainly you get much less input and have to wait and that leaves you alone with your demons.

[StormChaser]

GMan,

At least your W talks! Mine is a so closed. I know she's talking with the IC, but so much of our crisis came from her bottling up and building resentment based on her expectations instead of just telling me what they were.

I can't even talk to her about that yet!!!

Anyway, probably more venting than anything today. Feeling a bit of jealousy and anger this morning.

[gman242]

I guess the grass is always greener for us too huh? My wife says a lot of good things, but nothing about the direction we are headed in. The validation is nice, but i dont get much else. I suppose in time, that will come too. And i get jealous of people with spouses who are further ahead than mine!

[whatthe????]

Stormchaser,
I too have an at home MLCer.  The only time he really talks to me, other than trivial things, is when he's at least 4 beers or a bottle of wine in.  For me, boundaries were/are hard and I kinda had to make my own...you will find that sometimes you have to take what the wise ones are saying here and adapt it to your situation.  What works for one will be hell for the other so don't get too stuck in the concreteness of all this mess. 

So much of my h's crisis also came from "protecting me" by not telling me how he really felt, WTH!!!!  I think, in his case, he couldn't handle how he felt and wasn't sure he could handle my reaction so he never tried or gave me the opportunity.  I have apologized for my part in the breakdown of our marriage and that is all I can do.  For everything he brings to my attention, I listen, consider, and apologize for it if necessary but that is it.  I am 19 months in and it still sucks.  We too share the same bed...I have tried multiple times to kick him out (not that I want him to leave but anytime he mentions leaving I support his desire to be happy elsewhere), regardless, he stays.  It's tough.  The depression plays a HUGE part in this for my H and IMO, can make it that much more difficult for those who stay.

Vent all you like....we all have days like this!  I've had the past 2 weeks like this!

[Seeing The Light]

SC, this time was the hardest for me as well... because my H said "I want to be back, to be us" and then three days later had a meltdown with me... just because I went out of town for work.  I was gone for a week and during that time I realized that I needed to let him guide me to what he was ready for and what he wasn't.... I was so excited to see the changes in him, to have him back that I ended up putting more pressure on him just by being too much their, if that makes sense.

So, I backed off, and let him tell me what he was ready/willing to accept.  And this is the REALLY hard time... because seeing their progress and wanting them to be FARTHER along than they are ready to be.

I would say that if your W is going to counseling, that she is probably talking about things that she may have bottled up in the past... just don't assume that she isn't talking.  She is... it just isn't to you... yet.

It took my H a while to really tell me things, and even then he would initially use BD language because he didn't know any other way to communicate his hurt.  Now that he sees that I'm not reacting to him, that I listen, it's gotten easier, but it has taken a long time.

My suggestion??? Read the book... yes, The Four Agreements.  Because that's what has helped me the most in keeping my focus on me.  Between that one and Love Languages, it kept me sane through this part of the process.  And with all of it, remember, smallllll baby steps is what they are taking.  It all takes time. 

[StormChaser]

Thanks all.

Just triggered by a bunch of things. Including this last week being the annual work conference where the PA started. Knowing that she would be thinking about the OM pretty much non-stop. And when she got home late last night, her being somewhat distant - because of her dealing with her side of all of that.

Also the realization that her best friend might actually in some ways unintentionally be a TF by projecting her own marriage unhappiness on our sitch.

I called our shared IC this morning to quickly chat and to validate my current approach.

She reassured me on all counts. Said she hopes that eventually she'll be able to get us doing some MC. Told me to keep on keeping on.

And yes, STL, I will make the time to read the book!

And Gman, not sure she's any further ahead than yours - just different parts of their emotions and logic are moving at different paces for them all.

Glad to have you all for moments like this!
Thx.

[StormChaser]

Journaling,

So, the cycling continues. Both hers and mine. She seems to be "back" for now. I know that will change.

It feels that she tends to boomerang a bit when she goes away for work. And she's traveling a ton lately. I believe that its more escape from the sitch than anything else. She is doubling down on focusing on work as part of her escape from the reality of what she's done. So, when she goes away (which is for work) she puts me and the kids back in our box and puts the blinders on until its time to come home. Then she takes the lid off the box and starts contact again.

Just venting - I'm craving some movement forward from her. Feels like she is paralyzed right now (the tightrope?) and is doing a bit of a sort of cake eating (or is it just peeking out of the tunnel and running back in?) in the new scenario. I think this is the space for the 180 that STL had mentioned earlier. But when she's back at home, it feels so much like the old days that its hard to pull back into 180.

I REALLY need to read that book!!!

[gman242]

It is tough.. I am also glad we're all in this mess together.

I'm trying to 180 without pushing her away.. staying busy, doing my own thing too ect. it's hard.. with all the check ins, anchor checks, well wishes ect. She's going back into mom / wife mode and it's pulling me down like a bog full of molasses!

I figure you have to do the same.. keep up appearances, but also carve out a space that is just "you" to go duck into as your own sanity shelter. 

I'll give you this for moral support.

[whatthe????]

I agree completely gman. The 180's are really tough to apply when they are home.  I can do majority of them to a degree but it seems to cause a great deal of strife if I apply all of them at face value and without a little tweaking.

[Seeing The Light]

In my best IC voice...  "Did you read the book yet?"  Lol

I understand about the 180s. I think that for me, they work best when I find myself getting antsy/monkey braining about H. A lot of my anxiety that I get about H is when I see that he's bothered about something... I read a lot into his body language.  Again, for me, this was from childhood conditioning. Logically, I know that he will tell me if there is a problem, but I still get reactive if I start analyzing him too much. So that's where the 180s help me.

Why?  Because it forces me to step back and give him space.  I don't have to apply all of them, but I do stay out of the room he's in if he's processing.  I don't pressure him. 

I also read the book Divorce Busting and it helped bring additional things into perspective for me.  It's a good read and it helps explain some of those concepts of the 180s and how to apply them and why.

Finally, the Love Languages book helped me as well... Just got me to understand some more about what H is doing and why and how he shows his love without saying it.

SC, how does that apply to you?  Your Ws LL may be Acts of Service, so for her, working as hard as she is may be her way to show her love. I know that seems strange, but that is a possibility. And it may frustrate you because your LL may be Quality Time, which is why it seems like she is more there when she is with you and the kids.  You both could be speaking different LLs.  And I could be off as well.. But it's something to consider. 

[StormChaser]

Thanks all for the support.

STL, the book has made it to my bedside table and I'm challenging myself to read it this weekend. So ask that question again on Monday morning!

I think I realized this morning that my hurdle to the 180 seems to be keeping detached even though my W is reconnecting. As an example, she is "acting as if" when she is home with the family, but its like she flips a switch as soon as she gets on a plane to go away for work - and like I said, she's travelling a lot for work. When I thought back to pre-reconnecting, I would have just said to myself "oh well, her loss" but now I take it personally. Because expectations. Dangit.

So now, I have to rewire to get back to the point where I realize that even her reconnection is mainly about her. That the description of the post-fog MLS that BB wrote about somewhere else will only come with time and her work and her journey. I have to continue to be detached from that and stop having "non-expectation expectations". That is to say, I'm not having overt expectations, but I'm obviously creating some internally because I'm getting disappointed.

STL with regard to the LL, my W's primary LL are Words of Affirmation and Acts of Service. Mine are Touch, then QT and Acts of Service. I've been doing my best to talk hers to her, but W of A is hard with the current situation. I see glimpses of her doing things for me, little lights here and there, but also lots of selfish behaviour towards both myself and the kids.

I feel pretty strongly that if I had been better at those LL I could have possibly held this to an MLT, but you don't know what you don't know and quite frankly we didn't have the tools as a couple to avoid it.

I also firmly believe that she hasn't let go of the OM emotionally yet - and I'm pretty sure that it will take awhile for that to happen. Because she still has this idealized version of their relationship, I feel that it will be a long tough uphill road for her to get past that. So I'm in a new kind of limbo as she works through that. As I said earlier, we share an IC, and I did a quick check-in with her to make sure that I was on the right path. She did tell me to not change a thing, so I've got that at least...

Let her own her journey, re-embrace my own.

[KeepItTogether]

I feel pretty strongly that if I had been better at those LL I could have possibly held this to an MLT, but you don't know what you don't know and quite frankly we didn't have the tools as a couple to avoid it.

OMG--so funny you say that. I think the very same thing.  Of course, who really knows?

I am happy you are in reconnection. Seems like it is a rocky  journey, but definitely on the right path. Stay strong!

[StormChaser]

Thanks KIT,

LL are gold. Very clearly explain to me why we "do" things and why expectations are often so skewed between what we want and what we offer in relationships. The things I'm finding neat about reconnection is how all the self-work prepares you for this. If your spouse comes back and you've cut corners on the self-work, I can't see how it would work. Couldn't deal with them continuing to cook if you're not fully baked yourself!

Journaling - as its been quite awhile...

Small steps continue, as do our parallel journeys.

I try and make my journey about grace, patience and self awareness. I see my W's journey as being about finding herself again. Finding joy and happiness and meaning in a world where those things seemed to disappear for her.

A few of the things I have seen - starting of awareness of my changes at home. Best example I saw was her mentioning that things were different in "the old days" when she was responsible for everything at home. First real acknowledgement that I'm doing more for the family.

Another was that she has to travel for work during Spring Break. When I brought it up, she immediately suggested we travel as a family to where her work trip was. This is the first time she has ever suggested it that I can recall. Obviously, as her PA was with a work colleague, for the longest time, all work trips were about escaping to her fantasy world. So this is a positive step forward for her to disconnect that.

One last one was she actually said no to an optional work trip requested by her boss. This is the first time in recent memory that she has actually chosen home over work as well.

My own self work right now is all about grace. I need to let go of all expectations and just live in the moment. Enjoying the small victories and acknowledging all progress no matter how small or large. I wonder about how to re-establish true intimacy - not physical but emotional. I suspect that I won't be able to go down that path until we get into joint counselling (if that happens right?).

Her cycling lately has revolved around interactions that mean she will see the OM. Nothing I can control, so I just have to see where the rollercoaster might be going and remember when to grab the bar and when to throw my arms in the air.

The journey continues! ;-).

[No expectations]

Storm,

Glad to see you in such a good place.  And that you are continuing your own journey, not just hoping W gets through hers.  I find myself doing that too, and have come to a place where I genuinely like the new, better me. 

It has helped me to see that no matter what happens with me and my H, I will be okay.  And I am okay now.  It's so wonderful how reading about another's journey, such as yours, can help me with my own.

[Seeing The Light]

SC, your update sounds very good indeed.   I'm curious, did you get a chance to read the book yet?

Regarding intimacy... it's taken a gradual turn for H and I to be able to really have the emotional intimacy.  I've learned to let H guide me to when he was ready for certain things from me, such as hearing more about my wants and needs.  Now, we are communicating much better.  I had to learn to NOT be so closed off from him and that was part of my own mirror work.  But he had to be ready for that to happen... many times, he was too much in his own little world to really care about me and my thoughts.  It's no longer the case now, but it took a LONG time for us to get to this point.

Living in the moment really helps make it easier though.

[StormChaser]

STL - thanks! i have started - but with Audible. Finding it hard to internalize because its fairly abstract. Reminds me a lot of The Alchemist.

Time for some journalling...

Weeellllll. I seem to have over estimated the done-ness of my wonderful W. Granted MLCers cycle, so we'll just hope its a case of that jumping back into the tunnel, but I just don't know anymore.

As I posted earlier, there were many signs of her thinking of me. What I didn't realize was that she wasn't being completely up front about her feelings on some of these things. More interesting, she wasn't being up front with herself about some of it.

My W seems to have issues around inability to share her true feelings, her expectations of herself and others, and her inability to put herself first. Common things that I've seen talked about on many threads both by LBSs and about MLCers. In my case, as our marriage crumbled, I consistently failed to meet her expectations because I was taking her for granted. On top of that, she failed to share how desolate and alone I was making her feel. She put on a brave face and I took that hook line and sinker.

She took herself to a dark place because she couldn't fix our marriage. Well, it turns out that it takes two to fix it, and if one of you is unaware of how sh!tty it is it makes it even harder. Now, I'm totally aware so that makes things much different...

My mirror work has been about being accountable to myself and to my family, about about being present and lastly about serving others before myself. I've been acutely aware of where I'm at and how I'm trying to move forward. However, I've noticed that I'm also completely unable to to share my feelings with my W. I don't know if this is protection, fear, trust, something else?

So, her actions are that since she came back home at Christmas time, she re-initiated an intimate relationship, and started sleeping in our bed again. As well, in our day-to-day, she's become more playful, like the pre-MLC version of her, she has also been doing and even saying things that are forward-looking.

Our day-to-day life has taken on a lot of similarities to our "old" life - pre-BD.

But, she has put back on her "brave face" and very recently when I would send truth darts or very lightly probe about R, I would get push back. "If we're together" in the future or similar type of statements.

Over the last few days, I felt it was too much and the risk of her relapsing into full replay due to harboured resentment or unmet (unvoiced) expectations would increase the longer this continued. So I probed deeper last night, and pushed some buttons. I just felt I had to do it as life really felt insincere. To outsiders, everything was starting to look just fine, but privately to me, she insisted that nothing was sorted out and she had lots of work to do. And she would insist this despite the reconnection moves she made and the planning of future activities together (some significant and others not so much).

So, she monstered. It was like time travel right back to the heart of post-BD. Full on blame and shame. On top of that, a terrible communication pattern that we have re-emerged - she starts to talk about how she feels, but frames it as how I made her feel, or how she believed I felt, and I would jump to defend instead listening to understand. I know that I do this, but she would say something like "You seem to think..." and tack on something that was projection or similar. I would just get triggered... I didn't lose my temper, but I sure didn't make her feel heard.

I confronted her with her actions and said that what she was doing didn't reflect what she was saying. How was I supposed to feel or act? I made it clear to her that I wasn't going to allow history to repeat itself. Allow her to put on the facade and pretend that things were fine when they weren't. She wouldn't answer why she had made those choices.

Joint counselling was brought up and she mentioned something that was a real trigger for her - she felt it would be of value regardless of the future, but that I insisted on pairing it up with moving towards reconciliation. I pointed out that if she chose to leave me, that I wouldn't be interested in having a lovey dovey post-divorce friends that go out for coffee type relationship. That my heart would be broken and that I would move on quickly and completely. Some of this is spite, as it could move our current relationship forward, but it is also a bit of a 2x4 to a line right out of the manual.

Of course, she took that as a threat. That irony is lost on our dear MLCers. I gently reminded her that the week after bomb drop, she said that we would need to get divorced, and I've had that reality to think about an awful lot since then, and truly believed that it was pretty much inevitable until Christmas. She had no answer to that...

So, despite the seeming progress, there are some big hurdles.

Haven't even mentioned that fact that I know that she is very occasionally sexting with a married ex-boyfriend. As she doesn't know that I know, I'm struggling with how to put a boundary around that without revealing that I've been cyber snooping on her. For now, I'm choosing to just work towards letting go of the snooping and letting her work towards being honest. But that's a tough road to travel too.

Interestingly enough, she had an IC appointment this morning. She didn't tell me that she did. I had contacted our counsellor this morning to try and talk through what I'm feeling without knowing that they were meeting. Our IC did talk to me after and shared some things that they talked about. Told me that my W should be coming to me with a letter outlining some of the things she's going through.

So, I'm discouraged, frustrated, and unsettled. It didn't feel good to be talking with the monster again. However, I do feel that I did the right thing in confronting the complacency that was emerging in our lives. I don't want to go back to where we were. Big sigh. At least the next little while will be interesting.

[Whyus]

Hi Stormchaser.
It sounds like your getting somewhere slowly at least.
I just read my post on your thread, it must have been a day or 2 before I found out about OM :-(. I knew inside that there was someone but I still wanted to believe her lies.....  those days are over .

Stay strong.

[StormChaser]

Thanks WhyUs. I'm feeling very good about my mirror work. This resetting of things validated many of the areas I'm trying to work on.

Journaling...

So, Tuesday night was the start of this "reset". Wednesday morning was her appointment with our IC. She didn't say a word to me all day Wed and Thurs. I finally confronted her Friday morning.

The short version: after some monstering, I was able to break through and get some honesty and true feelings from her. It was hard and took almost an hour of back and forth. She finally admitted how she felt, and didn't blame it on me.

The slightly longer version: as she monstered, she went back to the well on a few of her favorite blame topics. She suggested that in the 10 weeks that she has been back in the house that I have gone back to the same "habits" as before. Pure projection as she had fallen back in to an "easy" place - her words not mine.

An interesting pattern my W has when she monsters is to frame her "feelings" in a blame statement. She says things like "you seem to think..." or "when you X I feel...". I pushed her hard on this insisting that I have trouble not defending myself when she is explicitly blaming me for her "feelings".

I didn't really follow the I'm sorry you feel that way playbook on this one. I went after her about what she said about me. I pointed out that I was perfectly happy with where I was, with my growth, with how I've worked on me and the areas of my life and our relationship that I needed to improve. And if she felt that I wasn't meeting her expectations, that she owned that not me. Especially because she hadn't shared those expectations with me. I layered on that if who I am isn't good enough for her, that's her issue not mine, and I'm willing to move on if I'm not good enough. But that would be her choice, not mine.

At some point, she finally broke down and admitted that she didn't feel in control of anything. That she was guilty from letting everyone down (including me, even though she didn't say it). That she was sick and tired of meeting everyone's expectations and didn't know what she wanted or who she was. That she was overwhelmed and didn't know who she was anymore and didn't understand herself. That she felt she couldn't come up for air. She was vulnerable and honest - for the first time in an awfully long time. I saw it fleetingly a couple times in the couple months after bomb drop when I was still in beg, plead and talk about R mode. But when she was in replay, that vulnerability was almost always replaced by the shark eyed alien.

I told her that my expectations of her were for her to find the answers to her own questions and that I would support her in any way I could to help with that.

She said she needed to change, that I wouldn't like who she thought she wanted to be. I told her that was up to me to decide, not her.

I told her she needed to take some time for herself, but she's having trouble doing that (already - and it's been less than a day).

Overall, it finished well. I think things have essentially been reset a bit. I'm curious if she will choose to sleep in our bed together or not. If she will pull back on the physical intimacy. If she'll continue to try and open up more. We are still going on a short family trip with the kids over our Spring Break (next week).

In the overall looking at the journey, she was slipping back in to the tunnel because it was easier than moving forward. I was essentially enabling that by accepting her back into "our" life and not rocking the boat.

I will continue to be true to myself and try to support her to the best of my abilities.

Sorry all for these war and peace length updates...

[Whyus]

Ive heard nearly all these things from my W.
a few weeks back back she said that she didnt want me to think that our marriage was bad (i know it wasnt). It was all good, im a great guy who most women would appreciate more than she does, she knows I will make my next W really happy (WTF, why cant you be happy with me then?). Its all about her and not me... and then. "Dont get your hopes because we have been getting on well the last week or, im never coming home, I need my own appartment and space".

Just last we were on the phone talking about the house, finances and the kids. It was a normal conversation. The next minute with a totally different tone in her voice. " i just want to say that you need to get over me, the woman you love is gone. I am not her anymore and she will never come back. Im a different person now and you wont like this person. You will never be happy with this person. You dont deserve this person, she is not good for you".
That scared the crap out of me! Still does

[UrsaMajor]

a few weeks back back she said that she didnt want me to think that our marriage was bad (i know it wasnt). It was all good, im a great guy who most women would appreciate more than she does, she knows I will make my next W really happy (WTF, why cant you be happy with me then?). Its all about her and not me... and then. "Dont get your hopes because we have been getting on well the last week or, im never coming home, I need my own appartment and space".

Just last we were on the phone talking about the house, finances and the kids. It was a normal conversation. The next minute with a totally different tone in her voice. " i just want to say that you need to get over me, the woman you love is gone. I am not her anymore and she will never come back. I'm a different person now and you won't like this person. You will never be happy with this person. You don't deserve this person, she is not good for you".

Script... Right to the letter..... Every Mid-Lifer has said that in one form or another... more than once... All variations on the "You'll be happier without me." pity party that gives them justification for being a firetrucking idiot...

That is the PERFECT occasion for the "I'm Sorry you feel that way." because at that point, it is a heck of a truth dart.... Sure made MY Mid-Lifer stop dead in her tracks (and in her Pity Party)...

[Seeing The Light]

Hi SC... I think you did a great job on managing what happened with your W and her sliding backwards.  I know that from reading the HB posts that there are times where you have to do this with them, to force them moving forward again.  And you handled it VERY well.  Now, keep moving forward yourself with all of the good work you are doing for yourself... she will marinate on that for a while. 

[StormChaser]

Thanks STL and thanks UM for the note on Gman's thread.

I'm constantly surprised at how my W seems to be able to compartmentalize her life. On the one hand she's so clearly disappointed with herself and what she's done, but on the other, she has returned to many of her (good) pre-MLC ways.

The most significant change in the week since I confronted her has been a slight pull back in affection. She's still talking about the future (our summer plans as a family). She's started to talk to me a bit about the work she is doing in her IC. We are working together to start moving and cleaning out the rental that we have had since BD but haven't used since Christmas. We had a very nice family vacation last week and spent some quality time travelling.

I've noticed that I'm wrestling with how I treat my kids right now. Very impatient with two of the three and almost overly patient with the third. Not sure what's causing it but I need to do some mirror work on that immediately.

The other night, I was able to point out to my wife that going out to different activities by herself isn't necessarily giving her the time to "work" on herself that she feels she needs, but that its ok as long as she understands the difference.

I'm working on improving my Words of Affirmation for her. I had a good talk with a close friend about it a couple weeks ago and wasn't able to implement the changes before our little hiccup. So, with our trip last week and being back home now, I'm trying it out to see how it feels for me.

Other than that, some tremendous work stress, that may be part of how I'm treating the kids, but I'm handling it.

Just looking forward to a couple weeks where no one is travelling away. See how it all plays out.

[StormChaser]

Quick journalling moment...

I anticipated a bit of a rougher ride after I confronted her, but its been pretty smooth.

I'm also finding that its giving me a little more confidence in shooting truth darts and pushing her to be consistent.

I've done a couple "if we're together" barbs after she talked about something forward looking, but instead of getting her agreement that would come before, now she's just giving me a look of "I see what you did there".

We are getting closer to discussing R, but still not there. I started a frank discussion the other day about my role in contributing to her crisis. I said that I will always regret what I've done to make her feel unloved. And that I understood her not trusting me, but to realize that what I did will make it so hard for me to take her for granted again. She definitely took it in. Saw that she accepted it instead of monitoring against it.

I'm going to go with a mantra of "things that don't move us backward, move us forward".

[StormChaser]

Been way too long since I journaled.

So, to start, cycling sucks big time!

Long story short, my W is definitely wired to jump back into the tunnel when required. She is still nowhere near remorse. In fact, I'm not so sure she is even really feeling guilt.

So, a little less than a month ago, I confronted her on her words not aligning with her actions. Where her actions were very much "acting as if" we were married again.

She resolved that by stopping talking about how uncertain she was about the future, but still kept thinking the same things. However, she continued the actions of planning future "family-like" things. Talking about purchasing furniture, vacation planning, summer plans, etc.

I finally woke up to what was going on when we had a discussion last week that escalated into her monstering at me. She reverted back to blaming and shaming. Ironically she really had to dig deep to find something that I wasn't doing. I'll admit that I'm no Ursa when it comes to being super dad, but I've completely picked up my game compared to what I was doing pre-BD. She suggested that I was happy to just pretend that things were ok. I tactfully pointed out that this was much more projecting than anything else. If I was so happy, why was I the only one who was saying that her words weren't aligning with her actions? Everyone else, who doesn't know her, felt that she seemed so happy lately. And of course she had no answer for that...

I spent most of Friday and Saturday working through what was going on in my head. Trying to understand what was going on for me. How did my mirror work relate to what was going on? To be honest, it felt almost like a mini-BD as I had started to believe that things were changing.

I realized a couple things. By thinking we were on the road to reconciling, I threw out my boundaries and started to build expectations. Although my wife is acting as if we were a happy couple, she seems to be reverting to pre-BD behaviour of bottling up her emotions and just "toughing it out". Of course, there is still nothing I can do that will change her behaviour. I can just control my own.

So, I booked an appointment with my IC to talk through some of this. The IC asked my W if she could share some of the things from their sessions when she met with me and my wife said yes. Single most interesting thing I heard was that my wife was afraid of losing me "as a friend". Oh and that the IC felt that this one of the hardest cases she's ever had.

So, my wife will be home in about 6 hours and I've told her we have some things to talk about.

I will be providing some new boundaries. I will be asking her to describe how friends treat each other in her world. I will be asking her to contrast how that description aligns with how she has treated me over the last year. I will suggest to her that we don't "act as if" we are married if she is still very uncertain that she wants to stay married. I'm curious to see how this plays out.

An interesting new chapter... See you all on the other side of this.

[Seeing The Light]

Trying to understand what was going on for me. How did my mirror work relate to what was going on? To be honest, it felt almost like a mini-BD as I had started to believe that things were changing.

I realized a couple things. By thinking we were on the road to reconciling, I threw out my boundaries and started to build expectations. Although my wife is acting as if we were a happy couple, she seems to be reverting to pre-BD behaviour of bottling up her emotions and just "toughing it out". Of course, there is still nothing I can do that will change her behaviour. I can just control my own.

Yes, ME TOO!  I think it's interesting how as soon as things start moving to reconciliation that we let our boundaries down and start building expectations again.  This is where I find the disappointment hitting and also anger building up, for both of us.  I have to keep going back and reminding myself of what I have learned in my own mirror work... to stay focused in the moment, to actively listen to what H is saying and NOT reacting, to use the 24 hour rule.  I find that when I go hind brain with H (reaction mode), that he does too, and then we are both spinning and it quickly escalates to anger and arguing.  Yet when we both remain calm, or when one of us remains calm while the other loses it, things are better.  It's the frigging expectations that cause it to get bad though and shut down communication for us.

I will be providing some new boundaries. I will be asking her to describe how friends treat each other in her world. I will be asking her to contrast how that description aligns with how she has treated me over the last year. I will suggest to her that we don't "act as if" we are married if she is still very uncertain that she wants to stay married. I'm curious to see how this plays out.

An interesting new chapter... See you all on the other side of this.

Good for you... this sounds like a conversation that needs to happen.  I've found that establishing a friendship with my H again was important to us moving forward.  It seemed to create a foundation for us to move into something better again... better than it was before.  Knowing what friendship really means to her will be important to rebuilding a relationship.  Hope that things are going well!

[StormChaser]

I find that when I go hind brain with H (reaction mode), that he does too, and then we are both spinning and it quickly escalates to anger and arguing.  Yet when we both remain calm, or when one of us remains calm while the other loses it, things are better.  It's the frigging expectations that cause it to get bad though and shut down communication for us.

Hi STL,

Thanks for dropping by. As always, your thoughts are very on point. As she cycles and goes back into mini-replays, she falls quickly into blame and shame, which does to both of us exactly what you described above...

I've pulled a mini-180 right now. She's very much in a place that doesn't have me as part of it right now. I did try and have the discussion about friendship and what it means. She's not open to hearing any of it right now.

I'm struggling mightily this time around because I'm just exhausted. To have her come back to the exact same discussions that we were having while she was still in the middle of the relationship with the OM. To be told that she won't trust me until I do so many things that I can't do while she refuses to recommit to our marriage, it just feels a bit hopeless sometimes.

So often, my W does a masterful job of "acting as if" and it has truly been one of her major issues, as it hid so much of her unhappiness and fostered lots of resentment. She keeps going back there and pulling up things that I did wrong - much of it script... And when I call her bluff, and point out that she's acting this way, but also insisting that we aren't "back together", it falls back into old communication habits that just can't seem to be broken. When I'm strong, and safe, and feeling good, I can be the calm one and guide it back, but right now, just not able...

Anyway, I'm hoping its just the usual cycling, that eventually she'll come back and start hashing this out, but I'm just real tired...

[Seeing The Light]

Hmmm..  I'm starting to wonder if instead of a mini 180 that maybe you need to pull out the whole list with her and apply them all.  Something has stopped her progress and perhaps the "Look at me living my life and you can spin all you want, it won't affect me" space that 180s give us may kick her forward again. It also sounds like something you need, too.  I guess my questions for you are, what are you doing for you right now?  How are you taking care of yourself?  Are you still GALing?  Are you continuing to move forward on your own path, or have you gotten stuck in her rut?  What are you doing to make yourself happy?

I've found that when I have felt resentful at H that sometimes it's because I'm not taking care of me. I fall back into the trap of "let me focus on him not me". I'm reminding myself to draw, to work out, to ask if he needs my help instead of just assuming it.  This gives me my sense of peace and let's me feel comfortable taking care of myself.

I'm not saying that is what is happening with you... But there is a component of it which is, how are you continuing to take care of you during this time?   What you do now to take care of yourself should continue on even if you are working on reconnecting, if that makes sense. 

[StormChaser]

Hi STL,

I'm actually a bit ahead of you on this.

I've been thinking a lot about GAL and living as if they aren't coming back over the last week. I actually started sleeping in the basement a week ago, and have also stopped trying to "serve" her and show her that I've changed. I'm moving back towards being changed, but not for her - for me.

In terms of GAL, most of my outside interests revolve around sports. Over April, I was between seasons and didn't have much going on. But since she moved back in to the house, I've stayed playing hockey which is my main sport. Been thinking about other ways that I can try and have time, the way it was when we were separated, but haven't figured that out yet.

My W will be gone from Mon to Thur both the next two weeks. I'm looking forward to the space and curious to see how she deals with it. I know she's cycling. I know that she's suffering right now - depression signs are everywhere - but I'm also not going to bite. I've made it clear to her that if she wants to be home, then she has to want to be here with me.

I'm perfectly aware that she might not have baked enough for that to be something she's capable of, and I'm ok with that.

So in the meantime, I'm taking the opportunity to have a clearer mind, be more mindful of my interactions with the kids and to just enjoy being me. Like a taking a step back (towards separation) and forward (to happy me) at the same time.

The challenge for me has been that she kept pulling me in, but only enough to set expectations on my part, even though she definitely isn't fully done. It's likely just a trip back into the tunnel. Not sure how long or how deep - but that's not within my control - so I need to be centred and good with me no matter what she does.

My key issues to work on after BD were to be a better partner, take more responsibility for things around the house. The other things I feel I have to work on are centred around our relationship and I feel like I've done most of the mirror work that I can in that regard. Much work has to be done on "us" - and its hard to do that work by yourself. So, I wait. And if she's ready to start that work with me at some point in the future, then we can move forward together. And if she's not, then eventually, I'll probably have to move on.

Just as an example, she talks to me constantly about "family" things in the future but refuses to recommit to me. I've decided that I'm going to not re-engage until she gets her head around that... It's actually quite liberating. Feeling pretty comfortable over the last week to be honest. Where I was tired last week, not I'm feeling not too bad.

Thanks for checking in...

[Seeing The Light]

Very good! You sound like you are back to focusing on you again and being happy with yourself.  For me, that's what keeps the expectations away and also helps me not get sucked into my H's emotions.  Keep taking care of you. 🙂

[StormChaser]

Journaling...

Wow, I sure sounded like a grounded, "with it" kinda guy on May 12 ;-).

After I wrote that last post, she actually apologized, asked me to come back to our room. Told me she would commit to trying to work on us. She also mentioned that in IC she had talked with our counsellor about joint sessions to define what that meant to each of us. The she went away for work.

The LBS journey is so freakin' hard. Yes, my W was away most of the last two weeks. When she was home between trips, she ended up being sick with a fever over 100. I was exhausted for most of it.

She came back last Thursday. And frankly, was a complete b1t¢h for the last few days. In a classic case of MLCness, she monstered on me for not taking the garbage out correctly. Because I didn't do it the way she wanted, *I* was controlling... and made her feel like she didn't do it correctly. Sigh.

In an interesting flip flop, W has gone from refusing to talk about the future, to freely talking about trip planning, things we have to do around the house, among others, but is treating me like garbage. The reverse of what she was doing before.

So, after all this, I'm discouraged, exhausted, struggling to get back to detached and happy. I've booked an appointment with the IC for me on Wednesday. I need help getting grounded.

For those of you who have the live at home, still in the tunnel but bouncing out every once in a while, MLTer, feel free to chime in...

SC

[Thunder]

I'm glad you're seeing an IC.  That should help.  It's very hard to live with a MICer.   

Maybe back to the basement for some peace?

[Acorn]

Hi SC, I have a live in MLCer.  We get the front row seat for the MLC show we never purchased tickets for.  I get ya about the garbage saga.  My H picked on anything and everything to get angry at me.  I used to resolve in tears and try really hard to correct the said 'mistakes'.   That's until i realized he was projecting his anger.  I just happen to be the convenient off loading target.
I put up my horror show ticket on Stubhub and stopped watching him and taking his words seriously.  Well, most of the time, anyway. 
I stopped commenting on his comments all together.  Unless it's about the weather.
Guess what?!  He has all but stopped giving me sh#$% about anything.   Non-response beats non-provocation.  When you get angry at someone and get no reaction, where's fun in that? 
There was a way around this for H.  He started bit#$%^& about our son.  I used to defend him but no more.  So, that's stopped as well. 
I'm telly ya, this pill of non-reaction is really potent.  In my case, anyway.  After practicing non-reaction his comments actually stopped bothering me.  Classic fake till make it.

Look, I'm not saying this IS the way to go for you but it worked for me.  As reading lots of posts here helped me to adopt some strategies that worked for m, I thought I would down my experience here.

I hope some veterans chime in and offer more 'professional' take on this.

So good that you are GALing.  A LBS life saver, for sure!

[Acorn]

Correction:  Non-response begets non-provocation. 

[gman242]

It's tough, but you have to tell yourself this isn't real, for the time being. None of it is.. and you do have to keep your expectations in check as STL was saying.. Since I've detached, kept her at arms length ect, I've seen her cycle, trying to get a reaction out of me. That's all it is, it's a game, one you don't need to play and you need to fill your time with engaging and healthy activities to get your mind off of it. Honestly, once you have your own life, it's hard to want to go back to the games, uncertainty and instability.

I know that's easier said than done with a live in MLCer. My heart honestly goes out to you guys.

[Undecided]

Hey SC I think it was you who gave me great advice about accepting things the way they are and anytime thoughts would go against that you would actively do a chant of acceptance.  I applied it and it has now transitioned into anytime I start thinking to much about my MLC'er I make a active effort to switch my thoughts back to myself.  It has really started to make a difference.  It's so hard to detach and not get expectations when you live with them.  Tough stuff for sure.

[StormChaser]

Hey all,

Thanks for chiming in. Much appreciated. Yes Undecided, my IC gave me that great tip. Unfortunately she had a family emergency so I wasn't able to see her today. It's actually the one year anniversary of BD. All things considered, feeling pretty good.

Yes GMan, it's important to remember that 50% of what they do and none of what they say is real. But the hard part is that there are starting to be some overlap between words and actions. But there is still the cycles. Over and over. When I'm feeling good, it's easy to deal with, but that just isn't always the case.

I'm also pretty convinced that my wife is MLT not full on MLC. Many similarities but she's emerging way earlier than most on the board.

I'll keep digging deep and work on detaching. It's doubly hard because she's home and she really seems to want things to be normal. Despite the lobstering and mood swings it just seems so strangely normal... anyway I'm anxiously waiting for my IC to get back. Apparent there is the prospect of joint sessions in the future.

[Shocked]

Ah the anniversary day!!!!  That's a big deal!!!! It's a day of a lot of emotions and memories. I hope your doing ok!!!! I hope too you hunch of MLT is correct what a blessing that would be! Sending a hug!

[StormChaser]

Thanks Shocked. Turned out to be a bit of a non-event.

My IC is back and I'm looking forward to the first real joint counselling. We have been working hard on just getting through the last few weeks. It's been extremely busy with the kids. Also did some planning on our summer. Kids camps, family trips etc.

And we may have a trip for just us at the end of the month. Would be a quick trip to China, see the Great Wall, Beijing, long flights but maybe some time to work on us... 

Those trips were always some of our best memories.

She seems to know what she's done after the monster anyway. She's still challenged in putting it all into words though...

That's all for now.

[StormChaser]

So it’s been way too long since I’ve posted. My apologies to anyone who was following along.

So, I believe that we’re into rebuilding. I also believe that my W may have been more of an MLT than full blown MLC, just based on length of replay.

That said, pre-bomb drop - during her affair, and then the six months we were separated, she was just as much in lala land as any other MLCer. It’s been just over 10 months since she came back home and about a month since she first voiced a desire to recommit and rebuild.

Counselling continues, mostly for her, but with joint sessions as well. We both know what we need to work on. Although she’s still taking small steps back towards “us”, and she still hasn’t shown clear remorse, or at least hasn’t verbalized it to me, there has been clear, certain progress towards rebuilding.

We are both working very hard on communicating better and being clear in expectations. So for, it feels like the tendency for her to subjugate her feelings and “accept” things she doesn’t like is less common. I’m working so hard on listening to care instead of fix. Also trying really hard to speak her languages, knowing how much of a difference that makes.

Overall, I see her as having come out of the tunnel, definitely changed in some ways, but also coming back to many of her positive qualities that I missed during replay and monstering.

Personally, I’ve avoided most of my cycling over the last few months by just accepting her anger that she has directed at me, showing grace, and realizing that so much of it is projection. We’ve also talked more about it after she’s calmed down and she’s getting better at understanding herself.

She’s also slowly understanding her FOO issues and that other’s expectations need not be her own. And that she can voice her expectations of me, in adult discussions, and that it will help much more than swallowing disappointment when I don’t meet expectations, that I didnt’ even know about.

I’m one hundred percent confident that if I hadn’t found this forum, that I wouldn’t have had the patience and understanding to stand successfully and to understand the painful journey that my W was going through...

Our journey continues and there are still many bumps in the road forward, but it is so much more manageable when she has said she wants to walk that path with me.

Onward.

[OldPilot]

So, I believe that we’re into rebuilding. I also believe that my W may have been more of an MLT than full blown MLC, just based on length of replay.

That said, pre-bomb drop - during her affair, and then the six months we were separated, she was just as much in lala land as any other MLCer. It’s been just over 10 months since she came back home and about a month since she first voiced a desire to recommit and rebuild.

Counselling continues, mostly for her, but with joint sessions as well. We both know what we need to work on. Although she’s still taking small steps back towards “us”, and she still hasn’t shown clear remorse, or at least hasn’t verbalized it to me, there has been clear, certain progress towards rebuilding.

We are both working very hard on communicating better and being clear in expectations. So for, it feels like the tendency for her to subjugate her feelings and “accept” things she doesn’t like is less common. I’m working so hard on listening to care instead of fix. Also trying really hard to speak her languages, knowing how much of a difference that makes.

Overall, I see her as having come out of the tunnel, definitely changed in some ways, but also coming back to many of her positive qualities that I missed during replay and monstering.

Personally, I’ve avoided most of my cycling over the last few months by just accepting her anger that she has directed at me, showing grace, and realizing that so much of it is projection. We’ve also talked more about it after she’s calmed down and she’s getting better at understanding herself.

She’s also slowly understanding her FOO issues and that other’s expectations need not be her own. And that she can voice her expectations of me, in adult discussions, and that it will help much more than swallowing disappointment when I don’t meet expectations, that I didnt’ even know about.

I’m one hundred percent confident that if I hadn’t found this forum, that I wouldn’t have had the patience and understanding to stand successfully and to understand the painful journey that my W was going through...

Our journey continues and there are still many bumps in the road forward, but it is so much more manageable when she has said she wants to walk that path with me.

Onward.

My only comment right now is TRUST but VERIFY

Continue to learn the lessons from the beginning

She either wants to be all in or not.

This is when it really gets hard

[Thunder]

Hi StormChaser,

It's good to hear from you.

Things sound like things have improved a lot over the past few months.
It's very good to hear.

Keep progressing and keep us updated.   

[Mitzpah]

Hi Stormchaser,

It is good to read that you are both doing good.

Do you think counselling has helped? Are the joint sessions helpful at this point? I am just curious and I am a little sceptical of counselling anyway, so I just wondered how instrumental it has been...

[No expectations]

Good update, SC.  I hope she keeps moving forward.  Please keep us updated! 
 

[gman242]

Yes..... I remember you! Glad to see you back and that things are going well!

[StormChaser]

Thanks everyone,

Mitzpah, to answer your question: We share a counsellor. It was the one I found immediately after BD and my W agreed to start going to see her not long after. Most of our counselling has been IC but with the eventual hope of joint.

We've only had a handful of joint sessions because my W wasn't really ready. She hadn't at any point until 3 weeks ago actually been able to say she wanted to stay in our marriage. Our next joint session is next week.

FWIW, my opinion is that counselling is definitely worth it if you have the right person. And more importantly if you are both ready for it. We initially started joint where my W was totally not ready - the first session we had last year actually consisted of trying to discuss the massive argument we had on the way to the appointment - W was still hostile and resentful - however, I'm interested to see where it goes now that she is open and we are ready to work.

The counselling I went through after bomb drop was crucial to me being able to get through a lot of of the stages. Particularly good with the anger cycles.

My W had been going through some anger as she came out of the tunnel over the last few months. She was dealing with that in her sessions...

I'll be able to share more about it as we go through the process...

[UrsaMajor]

Hey Stormy,

Nice to see you again and it sounds like you are on the way back to a real relationship.  OP has it right that the LBS needs to be careful so that we don't get sucked into a premature return but, from what you've written, you are taking care of that....

the individual and joint counseling sounds like it is a real benefit for you both... And that is good... the fact that the Mid-Lifer is actually DOING it for themselves, is a step in the right direction

UM

[StormChaser]

Just a small update.

Things with W and I are still slowly progressing. Our lives are exceedingly hectic, and we've had a few "extra" stressful events lately. Some financial challenges have made pre-Christmas very hard. Her parents have stepped up to help us so that's quite the blessing! Trying to power through this and hoping that it will be a small temporary hiccup.

Still hard to get my W to be open and specifically be vulnerable. She's so conditioned to be "perfect" that it feels like she's afraid to be open.

She did however put on her wedding ring a couple weeks ago. She travels quite frequently for work, and one of the days she was back, I looked and noticed it was back. She had been wearing a ring we had bought together on a family trip for the last few months, but I guess she felt it was time to put it back on. Haven't made the time to sit down and ask her about it, but will in the next few days...

Every day is an opportunity. Don't let it pass you by.

SC.